Cheap labor, path to stagnation ?
Nospam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile
which actually was a steam engine. Almost 2 millenia before James Watt
started the industrial revolution, Heron had all the knowledge and skills
required to do the same.
What prevented Hero to start the industrial revolution in antiquity while
made Watt do it ? Many believe that the answer it is: slavery.
In Heron's times the slaves provided cheap and plentiful workforce.
There was no reason for the ruling class to look for smart ways to reduce
the workforce required for a project. If more workforce was required, more
slaves were brought in. What was required then were entertainment for the
ruling class and ways to keep the population under control, by using
religion. This is what actually Hero did: mechanical circuses/theaters (as
mater of fact wonders of automation not replicated even in Watt times) and
temple machinery that simulated miracles.
Just imagine where the today's society would been if Heron started indeed
the industrial revolution 2000 years ago.
So, contrary to the stupid popular belief that cheaper workforce it is good,
the reality it is otherwise. Cheaper workforce generate technological
stagnation or at best underachievements. The automation level Hero
implemented in his mechanical theaters (automatons programmed mechanically)
was not yet achieved until in "modern" 19 century. Just imagine that level
of automation being used for machine tools and mass production ...... 2000
years ago. It is mind boggling.
Therefore, the businessmans pushing for cheaper workforce do not eye the
"good of society" as they tells you the standard lie. They ONLY look for a
short time proffit for themself at the cost of not only hurting their
employees but hurting the society as a whole. As I stated in countless
other examples, businessmans are successful not by doing something usefull
but by preventing others do do it.
So, next time when an idiot liar try to tell you that "cheap workforce is
good for the society" just remember that if the cheap labor would not been
available in antiquity, you might had today a vacation house on ....
terraformed Mars.
It is in the interest of the society to insure that the workers are payed
not at the lowest level they accept, but at the highest level the business
still can afford to. This is the direction in which we must push for
change.
B1ackwater
>About 2000 years ago, Heron of Alexandria created the "aeolipile":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile
>
>which actually was a steam engine. Almost 2 millenia before James Watt
>started the industrial revolution, Heron had all the knowledge and skills
>required to do the same.
>
>What prevented Hero to start the industrial revolution in antiquity while
>made Watt do it ? Many believe that the answer it is: slavery.
>In Heron's times the slaves provided cheap and plentiful workforce.
They had the bits and pieces of a technological revolution
way back then ... but for some reason they could never put
them all together. A lack of money ? More a lack of
communication. If Herons ideas had been widely known, and
ideas of similar engineers, a self-escalating spiral of
investigation and invention would have followed.
This is what happened in europe at the end of the medieval
period. Printing and improved mail service made it possible
for ideas and information to travel quickly and widely
between all interested parties. At some point a 'critical
mass' was achieved and a chain-reaction began.
Slavery and cheap labor made certain kinds of inventions
irrelevant - but they DID have a major inducement for
invention and innovation that we still have today ... war.
Still though, what would have happened if the Greeks or
Egyptians or Romans had posessed nuclear weapons ? The
respect for life was just about zero back then - even
less than nowdays. Maybe it's a GOOD thing that those
ancient engineers never got together ...
Nospam
> They had the bits and pieces of a technological revolution
> way back then ... but for some reason they could never put
> them all together.
Yes, very strange indeed. Heron reached a level in mechanics, a 19 century
engineer could been proud of.
Just not to talk about the strange electric batteries discovered in Bagdad,
which when refilled with vinegar provided each of them 0.75V, having 2 or 3
of them was enough to do electroplating with gold of cheapper bronze
jewelry. As mater of fact Archimede, discovered the boyancy law working to
figure out if a heavy gold crown was genuine or was bronze covered in gold.
> A lack of money ?
No way.
Look at the temples, pyramides and fortifications. The money/wealth was not
a problem then.
> More a lack of communication. If Herons ideas had been widely known,
> and ideas of similar engineers, a self-escalating spiral of
> investigation and invention would have followed.
The level of communication in ancient world was not reached back until
renaissance. I am talking mainly of the Alexandria library, where Heron
actually worked. Alexandria was an extremely cosmopolite city, being filled
with scientists, engineers, artists, writers, clergy etc from all over the
Europe and Asia.
Keep in mind that in middle ages DaVinci wrote in mirror afraid of church
prosecution, Giordano Bruno burn at stake for claiming that the Earth
revolves around the sun and Galileo had to repent his discoveries to save
his life. Even today fundamentalists in various countries ban some
scientific discoveries to be presented in school or rage holly wars.
This didn't happen in Alexandria in Herons times. The religion was a free
choice, many practiced 2 or more religions simultaneously without being
prosecuted or have any issue with that. This is the reason Heron build so
many temple machines, since each religions wanted to draw toward themself
as many believers to make many on them.
> This is what happened in europe at the end of the medieval
> period. Printing and improved mail service made it possible
> for ideas and information to travel quickly and widely
> between all interested parties. At some point a 'critical
> mass' was achieved and a chain-reaction began.
The difference was just that in Europe the books traveled while in
antiquity the scientists did. Alexandria was the best think tank one can
imagine. It destruction could explained some of the decadence into middle
ages.
In many respects, Alexandria in antiquity was a much much open society than
Watt's England.
> Slavery and cheap labor made certain kinds of inventions
> irrelevant - but they DID have a major inducement for
> invention and innovation that we still have today ... war.
Yes. Siege tower and flame thrower. Heron did that too.
So let recap: It was NOT the money/wealth, there were more than enough.
Neither the communication, antique Alexandria excelled in freedom of speech,
free communication, lack of any religious coercion and even today behavior
of pattenting all trivial ideas just to prevent others to do so.
There were 2 factors very important:
1. cheap and plentiful labor in form of slavery
2. big polarization in society betwen poor and rich
About 1. we already talk.
2. is also important. If the society is strong polarized a few rich own
everything and the rest of population own very few then the mass production
it is useless.
The rich can afford whatever they want and they always can get whatever
labor required for their needs. The savings they get form massproduction
compared with unicat productions is not important to them, especially if
they have slaves to do them for cheap.
The poor would not be able to afford many of the products even if by mass
production you get them a bit cheaper. Also, the poor not having a stable
guaranteed income are not an attractice market for somebody to invest into
a mass production factory. The bad attitude of people with money in regard
with poor also didn't help them to want to invest to make their life
better.
That is. These 2 factors were the core reason why the industrial evolution
did not happen in antiquity. It was the 18 century where the slavery was
no longer present and after a series of social unrest and bloody revolts the
many peisans earned a little autonomy and were able to become consumers
that the massproduction was desired and it took off.
Unfortunate, some idiots never learn from history and we still have today
insane people that still believe in "supply side economics" despite the
fact that all the evidences are that supply side it is nothing but a big
scam.
> Still though, what would have happened if the Greeks or
> Egyptians or Romans had posessed nuclear weapons ? The
> respect for life was just about zero back then - even
> less than nowdays. Maybe it's a GOOD thing that those
> ancient engineers never got together ...
That is a good question. But how was the respect for life in middle ages
before industrial revolution ? Tomas de Torquemada had any more respect for
life than Caligula ? Spanish conquistadores had any more respect for life
than Romans watching a gladiator fight ?
I believe the respect for life started to increase with the greather access
to the culture and civilization brought to us by the industrial
revolution. If this assumption is correct, on the times when the Romans
got to have the nukes, their society might been already been changed enough
to be a modern one able to handle the task.
The industrial revolution did not brought nukes over night and soon enough
after US mastered the nuclear technology, soviets did to. The knowledge
can not stay into one place, only the todays abusive intellectual property
laws pushed by greedy corporations try to limit their circulation.
If Romans were able to achieve nuclear fission, soon after that greeks,
egypteans, tracians, gals, partians or visigots would too. Then the
ballance would been restored.
The fact that the Heron's knowledge didn't spread in ancient times was due
to the lack of demand. Heron's biggest creations were pure entertainment
for the wealthy (mechanical theaters) or were locked into a temple to amaze
believers. For the wealthy in Alexandria, Heron was more than enough while
the temple technology was secret in purpose to keep the believers in dark.
In other sides, if he would been involved into industrial revolution into a
society ready to embrace it, I believe his ideas would been spread as fast
as in Watts times.
That is. The antique society was just not prepared for an industrial
revolution because of 2 big issues:
- existence of cheap and plentiful labor (slaves)
- insanely big polarization in society
Not being prepared because of these 2 factors, doomed human society to
another 2 millenia of stagnation.
ro...@telus.net
>As I stated in countless
>other examples, businessmans are successful not by doing something usefull
>but by preventing others do do it.
Dr. Michael Hudson has observed that the total economic rents obtained
by depriving others of access to production opportunities are many
times larger than the total returns to productive capital investment.
-- Roy L
Nospam
Actually back in Heron times, the antique society resembled very closely the
economic model promoted by the radical right and libertarians.
The taxation was very low if existent at all
The ruling class had all the economy for themself, without to much
government interference
Social protection and welfare were not existent
No public schools, health care nor retirement financed by taxpayers
A perfect environment for the "supply side economics" to shine in all it
splendor. By the "supply side" theory, we were supposed to see in antiquity
an explosion of jobs and business opportunity. We were supposed to see a
huge wave of investment from the ruling classes into new businesses to
provide everything people need to live a perfect life.
Well, none of these actually happen. Where they invested was .... war and
vanity projects.
Whenever they needed more workforce, slaves were brought in by their
military. Whenever the poverty become unbearable for population, military
was sent to keep the situation under control.
Yes, a lot of fabulous monuments, temples baths or pallaces were erected but
they were payed in slaves and poor blood and the majority of the population
starved to death.
Instead of using all that wealth to create business opportunity for the
starving population, the ruling class use it for their entertainment and
vanity only taking advantage of the poor situation. No advancement in
massproduction happen in those times since it was NO DEMAND for it.
The industrial revolution was missed for 2 millenia despite the fact that
the knowledge and skills were readilly available in antiquity. Why ?
Because is was NO DEMAND for it. People having money didn't needed it while
people needing it had no money to create the demand.
THIS IS THE SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS AT WORK !!! Stagnation, poverty, war, pain
and a fundamental disrespect for human life while hoarding huge quantities
of wealth by prevention others to earn a decent living. This is the radical
republican and libertarian's paradise. Stagnation and pain.
It is useless to produce more that how much population have the ability to
pay for. If you want to stimulate the economy you must create demand.
The demand increase drive prices up making more people/companies motivated
to produce that particular thing.
By contrast, the supply side puts money into the producer pocket while
cutting the money available for the consumer. The producer will rather keep
this money instead of investing it into production while he knows that the
consumers don't have money to buy it. This is how the housing and stock
market grew in last years WITHOUT ANY REASON TO BACK THIS GROWTH.
It was again an artificially created bubble and it may pop one day.
Conclusion:
=========
"Supply side economics" it is just a scam !!!!
It is a lie pushed by people targeting a quick buck by cheating the rest of
the population and looting their money.
ro...@telus.net
>By contrast, the supply side puts money into the producer pocket while
>cutting the money available for the consumer.
The conditions you identified in classical times in fact robbed the
producers for the unearned benefit of the idle, privileged ruling
class, especially landowners -- who consequently were the ones doing
the consuming.
-- Roy L
Day Brown
use *lead* pots to cook food in. Then too, there is that famous fish
sauce, which was stored in lead bottles.
Forensic exam of aristocratic skeletons show massive lead poisoning.
which no doubt made them *stoooooopid*. It also made aristocratic women
infertile.
So, just like now, sheeple failed to really understand what was
happening to them, or how to really take advantage of technological
innovation.