Americans are blood-thirsty
Ethic
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4203.htm
07/24/03 - By Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
America is shamed.
You know what bothers me the most ?
Not that George W. Bush lied to us.
I knew he was lying. I was doing the research to know he was lying.
I could tell he was lying in his State of the Union speech.
I read 1984 as a kid and I could see the propaganda machine spinning
its yarn.
Besides, with the help of the republican dominated Supreme Court,
he stole the election. And look at the people in his administration.
Look at their individual and collective track records.
What kind of integrity did we really expect from these people ?
No, what bothers me is how easily we were (mis)led.
What bothers me is how blood-thirsty the average American revealed
himself to be.
I won't forget the hand painted signs on the tanks that read
" Baghdad today, Paris tomorrow".
I won't forget how French fries, French toast and French bread
all became freedom fries, freedom toast and freedom bread.
I won't forget seeing Americans betraying the values of their own
country by trying to silence those of us who disagreed with them.
I won't forget being called a traitor or a terrorist or at the very least,
unpatriotic, because I believed the Bush administration's endless
"war on terrorism" to be a farce and the wars on Afghanistan and
Iraq to be ruinous for America as well as being illegal and
unwarranted atrocities.
I won't forget how it feels to have the rest of the world look at us
like we're the new Nazi state.
I won't forget how it feels to know that they're probably right.
It wasn't just a handful of extremists thirsting for blood and trying
to silence any and all opposition.
It wasn't just a handful of extremists promoting intolerance, paranoia
and blind nationalism.
It wasn't just a handful of extremists supporting hate crimes,
both at home and abroad.
It wasn't just a handful of extremists giving away our rights and
undermining the values of the United States of America .
It was the every day American citizens goose-stepping right along
with the extremists, because it feels good to believe you're on the
winning team, it feels good to think you've got it all figured out and,
let's face it, it feels good to do whatever you like, no matter who
or what it hurts.
Nothing makes fear subside like kicking someone's ass and feeling
powerful. It doesn't even matter if they deserve it. Children on
playgrounds know this. And they resent it when an adult steps in
and reprimands them. They resent having to learn how to behave
in a civilized manner and they resent having to accept that what
they want isn't always good for them or good for others. They
don't want responsibility. But they are children and don't know
any better.
It is for the adults to know better and to guide our children in
making sense of the world and making healthy, thoughtful choices.
What will our children learn from our own behavior ?
Can you see the irony here ?
It's looking at you in the mirror.
America is shamed today.
At the worst, we'll just put blinders on and keep on goose-stepping
our way into the economic, environmental and social disaster of an
endless Third World War. At best, we'll make a quick course
correction, and have to pay for this war, and our children will have
to pay for it and their children too.
And it won't stop there.
We'll have to make reparations to the Iraqi people.
And we'll have to show a lot of good faith for a long time to the rest
of the world.
And we won't be able to throw our weight around any more.
This will likely weaken our position in the world, because the planets
biggest psycho government won't be as dangerous anymore.
Our world has changed, yes.
Not because of 9/11, but because of who we allowed ourselves
to become and what we allowed ourselves to accept as a result.
The problem isn't just that George W. Bush and his crew got into office.
And the problem isn't just that they've undermined our country with lies,
illegal wars and a largely unopposed attack on our personal freedoms.
The problem is that we let them.
America is shamed. And I am shamed right along with her.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4203.htm
Angelo
"Ethic" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3f2168fc$0$22096$5402...@news.sunrise.ch...
> I won't forget being called a traitor or a terrorist or at the very least,
> unpatriotic, because I believed the Bush administration's endless
> "war on terrorism" to be a farce and the wars on Afghanistan and
> Iraq to be ruinous for America as well as being illegal and
> unwarranted atrocities.
Don't worry weasel, you shouldn't forget when someone speaks the truth
about you.
Go cry a fucking river.
Jim
Phoenix Rising
>I won't forget seeing Americans betraying the values of their own
>country by trying to silence those of us who disagreed with them.
>
>
Now you know what conservatives feel like whenever they stand up in
a stereotypical college classroom and try to defend their own views on
affirmative action or militarism as a legitimate element of foreign policy.
--Phoenix Rising
Hank's Still Drunk & Fun
beyond obvious this isn't a partisan issue. It's a total governmental
issue regardless of what party is in office.
Our country is slowly but surely going straight down the shit hole.
And too many people just can't see what's happening. There is a
machine in place that is doing the most excellent job of killing our
country, and that machine is run by the world-wide banking monopolys
who've bought every government there is that is of any notice.
It boggles the mind to see people so adamently defend what Bush does.
Forget that he's republican, forget all that garbage. I just can't
believe people buy the shit he sells. We have no right, never have,
to be in any other country except our own. And now just look at the
state of the economy and world condition. Something big and bad is
just around the corner and it's beyond blatently obvious. Another
so-called "terrorist attack" and we'll be under Martial
Law...permanently...and The People will actually BEG for it. Maybe
even give up their guns.
The media is an awesome tool. Fact is, People world-wide want peace.
Nine out of ten if not more. It's the *governments* that incite The
People to do their bidding. And by "government", that goes way beyond
what's considered the political party; they're just a fukkin charade.
It's always been that way...Government indoctrinating People to do
their bidding. When are People going to WAKE UP?
Great post...Kudos.
"Ethic" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<3f2168fc$0$22096$5402...@news.sunrise.ch>...
Thom
wrote:
>"Ethic" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<3f2168fc$0$22096$5402...@news.sunrise.ch>...
>> http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4203.htm
>>
>> 07/24/03 - By Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
>>
>> America is shamed.
>
>
>Bogus Ethics, I often wonder if any of you psychotic liberals realize
>just how utterly foolish and childlike you appear when you post up
>sophmoric drivel by leftist political hacks like this obvious
>internationalist is? Do you think this is a fifth grade civics class
>or something?
This is the 21st century not the cold war.
>
>Sir, it's a rough world out there, and the sooner morons like this
>with a taste for sausage learn how it's made, the better off we'll all
>be. People are trying to kill us - mean, evil, nasty and brutal
>people.
and why are they? Is it because our corporations exploit people in
foreign sweat shops like NIKI has in Viet Nam where the workers
(mostly woman) are beat by their Korea task masters? Is it because we
mess with their silly religions?
The name of the game is that the average American is innocent of the
crimes we are accused of, its the few right wingers ranging from Niki
to Bush that have caused ther world to hate us.
>One doesn't babble on about democracy when we're taking the
>fight to our enemy's shores so as to avoid us having to do it here at
>much greater cost.
same dribble I heard during Viet Nam and the same dribble Hitler
spouted. Remember the signs he had over the gates of the death camps?
WORK WILL SET YOU FREE.
>One of the reasons we're beginning to so despise
>you appeasement monkeys is that you'll fight for nothing and quibble
>about everything, thus bringing us to a point where we will ultimately
>have to fight at far greater loss of life and property.
who cares about property, life is important. But the right wing's
human rights policy begins at conception and ends at birth it seems.
Also same dribble I heard in Viet Nam. If we don't fight the VC in
Viet Nam they will be landing in California any day now!
>
>You people are vile and evil twisters of the truth and almost
>everything you post exhibits a profound hatred for America and every
>value she stands for.
OK lets look at that
Bush laughs at the first ammendment
Bush refuses to restore freedom granted by the 2nd ammendment
He lies to Congress
He wages War without a declaration of war or UN approval
I'd say it was your lot that hates what America stands for?
>Most of you near-treasonous mountebanks are
>Fifth Column frauds and beneath contempt. (Cordially, Marie)
Hey we're not the ones invading otrher countries. Most of us hate
Saddam as much as Bush. This for us or against us cold war thinking
went out in 2000. Wake up and smell the 21st century please.
There is as much evil inside the country as outside the country. The
democrats put up a well meaning fool for president and the republicans
put up a lieing pupped who can't string a sentence together without a
speech writer (he'se getting better though). His military history is
a joke and his VP is a stinking draft dodger just like Clinton.
According the government figures theres over 18 million people
classied as homeless in America, thats as many people as live in
Australia!!! We have the 2nd lowest wages in the industrialized world
in relation to cost of living and republicans cry tears when you want
to raise the minimum wage by 25 cents even though they raise prices
like mad.
Time to solve the problems at home before worrying about people in the
desert someplace.
Thom
Viet Nam Vet
>
>(Cordially, Marie
JoettaB
seen a conservative sit quietly in any of them.
"Phoenix Rising" <gram...@att.not.here> wrote in message
news:3F21A948...@att.not.here...
Phoenix Rising
>Wow, Phoenix, what college did you attend? I've attended 3 and have never
>seen a conservative sit quietly in any of them.
>
That's because you probably noticed the ones who didn't. It's hard
to tell if those who are silent are conservative or liberal (or have
even thought about it before).
I've attended two, if you count study abroad as attending a
different university (even though the credits were applied back to my
American one), and my point was about "trying to silence," not actually
being silenced.
My university in the USA actually isn't all that bad, I'm drawing
that more off the horror stories I hear from students elsewhere,
primarily on the coasts. Ohio is a little more conservative and a
little more temperate in both its left- and right-leaning crowds (except
at football games), so my experience here has actually been much more
civilized than many of my fellow high-schoolers who went to more distant
lands.
--Phoenix Rising
Hank's Still Drunk & Fun
> >
> > 07/24/03 - By Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
> >
> > America is shamed.
>
>
> just how utterly foolish and childlike you appear when you post up
> sophmoric drivel by leftist political hacks like this obvious
> internationalist is? Do you think this is a fifth grade civics class
> or something?
>
> with a taste for sausage learn how it's made, the better off we'll all
> be. People are trying to kill us - mean, evil, nasty and brutal
> fight to our enemy's shores so as to avoid us having to do it here at
> you appeasement monkeys is that you'll fight for nothing and quibble
> about everything, thus bringing us to a point where we will ultimately
> have to fight at far greater loss of life and property.
>
> everything you post exhibits a profound hatred for America and every
> Fifth Column frauds and beneath contempt. (Cordially, Marie)
>
My god, that's one of the scariest posts I've ever read. I've been
hoping beyond hope that people are beginning to see what's going on,
but this post clearly demonstrates the contrary.
Democrat, Republican, it's all BULLSHIT Marie. The sooner you realize
this, the better off you'll be in the right direction. I'm not trying
to make an enemy here, cuz that will of course defeat the entire
purpose. But so much of what you say is FUCKING scary as all hell.
What makes it most scary is that you insult this person right off the
bat, demonstrating that you likely think only your personal opinion is
of any relevance, and that what that person said has zero merit. In
doing so, you make yourself out to be the most obvious United States
Citizen the world knows and hates with the passion it does. You show
complete lack of understanding of the Bill of Rights and the
Constitution when it comes to war and in the process are outright
arrogant about what it is you think you DO know. A horrific
combination.
You call this person treasonous...Do you vote Marie? Do you know how
easy it is for democracys to be converted into dictatorships and that
this country was originally founded to be a REPUBLIC, *not* a
decomcracy? Do you understand the difference between a system
operating under colorable law, as compared to operating under the
protection of individual rights and freedoms? Do you understand that
voting-in a democracy over a republic is itself treasonous? Do you
understand that we were NEVER supposed to be involved in international
war?...That there is ZERO Constitutional authorization for such a
thing?
You make reference to people that want to kill us...did you know that
well over 90% of the people on this planet actually want PEACE? Go
ahead, I dare ya...do your own personal poll. Travel the world. See
what people say. It's *governments* inciting the people, just as
they've done with you, that cause all the hatred and brutality you
describe. And this "preemptive" attitude you spew is the most
dangerous of all...as if you can predict the future, or since you
can't, let's "get them before they get us" all based on what our
government feeds you thru the boob-toob with all it's obnoxious bias
and manipulation.
Guess what? We have no authority to go to war until they're invading
our shores. And that hasn't happened for over 50 years. And allowing
foreigners in doesn't count (hmmmm....WHY allow all these hostile
foreigners in?!? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....Our governnment surely supports WE
over THEM, RIGHT?!?!?!?)
Read the Constitution, and spend a lot of time on it; too many people
have no understanding of politics and law and yet think their opinion,
and their "god damn opinion because only *I* am right" attitude is
what's effectively dividing and destroying our country. If you'd like
to challenge any of my opinions, I welcome it; I'm pretty good at this
stuff, I've spent years on it. Keep it civil if ya want my respect
tho, no insulting, and I'll be glad to share what I've learned and
come to know, and why you should be considering other viewpoints.
Remember, it ain't partisan; that's all a silly facade. Our country
is in a HUGE shit load of trouble.
And as the saying goes "If you're not outraged...You're not paying
attention."
Hank's Still Drunk & Fun
You've got the right attitude, but some of your viewpoints deserve
further consideration:
Property, as first defined via "Life, Liberty and Property" in the
organic Constitution was replaced with "Happiness" via deception.
Property is of vital importance, for it is without this promise that
we're all effectively enslaved. Property is the substance and backing
to the currency...it's where the mineral wealth is. It's of extreme
importance and if you look closely at teh environmental movement (a
movement that has the right heart yet is being completely manipulated)
you'll see a federal government that is slowly but surely acquiring
property by the thousand acres. There's a reason why "property" is so
important...and why the government wants to take it from "The People"
where it belongs.
> >You people are vile and evil twisters of the truth and almost
> >everything you post exhibits a profound hatred for America and every
> >value she stands for.
>
> OK lets look at that
> Bush laughs at the first ammendment
> Bush refuses to restore freedom granted by the 2nd ammendment
> He lies to Congress
> He wages War without a declaration of war or UN approval
The UN has no business being involved regardless. The UN is entirely
anti-American and totally Pro-global. America was intended to be
sovereirgn.
> I'd say it was your lot that hates what America stands for?
>
> >Most of you near-treasonous mountebanks are
> >Fifth Column frauds and beneath contempt. (Cordially, Marie)
>
> Hey we're not the ones invading otrher countries. Most of us hate
> Saddam as much as Bush. This for us or against us cold war thinking
> went out in 2000. Wake up and smell the 21st century please.
100% correct in that definition. It was an outright invasion,
regardless of what political police state or morals say. And entirely
inappropriate.
> There is as much evil inside the country as outside the country. The
> democrats put up a well meaning fool for president and the republicans
> put up a lieing pupped who can't string a sentence together without a
> speech writer (he'se getting better though). His military history is
> a joke and his VP is a stinking draft dodger just like Clinton.
Absolutely. Just remember that it really doesn't matter who's in
office. They're all entirely anti-American at this point and have
been for as long as you can remember (I'm sure you'll agree).
> According the government figures theres over 18 million people
> classied as homeless in America, thats as many people as live in
> Australia!!! We have the 2nd lowest wages in the industrialized world
> in relation to cost of living and republicans cry tears when you want
> to raise the minimum wage by 25 cents even though they raise prices
> like mad.
>
> Time to solve the problems at home before worrying about people in the
> desert someplace.
>
> Thom
> Viet Nam Vet
You're absolutely on the right track as far as I'm concerned. Just
some of the named issues above that I'd have you look into.
Kudos, great post. Most importantly, you recognize that partisanship
is a joke and irrelevant. Look into what I suggested if ya have the
chance, it's worthwhile. In the meantime, I wish you well, and thanks
again for the post.
Hank's Still Drunk & Fun
> Saddam as much as Bush. This for us or against us cold war thinking
> went out in 2000. Wake up and smell the 21st century please.
This was an extremely important point that I overlooked...
Bush is quoted as saying (and I have the video excerpt, lest any of
you disbelieve this quote) "You are with us, or you're with the
terrorists...and if you're with the terrorists, you will face the
consequences."
And have we all SEEN how "terrorist" is defined via the so-called
"Patriot Act"? It's an atrocity. What people don't realize is that
the "Patriot Act" isn't meant to be interpreted as "PRO-Patriot"; it's
meant to be interpreted as "ANTI-Patriot", as that's exactly what it
is by definition. Law and politics are one in the same, and this use
of word-art is no different than what any attorney would use. (Hence
so many attorneys in public offices).
In other words...if you're not PRO U.S. Government, regardless of what
their stance is, you are automatically presumed/assumed *ANTI* U.S.
Government. God help you if you disagree with The State. Because
thanks to the "Patriot Act", Due Process no longer applies, and free
speech went out the window a long time ago, as we all know.
The free America is officially GONE. Maybe it's time The People took
it back.
Laura Bush - America's kid-killer
>
> 07/24/03 - By Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
>
> America is shamed.
>
It's not america. It's the GOP that is so bloodthirsty. They not
only love wars, they also love guns and cars and executions. They
love to kill.
Hank's Still Drunk & Fun
This coming from a democrat, most likely, right?
pigfarm, it is NOT partisan. Try to get yourself out of that line of
thinking. If a dem was in office, we'd still be faced with similar
problems, and the crux of ALL the issues would be no different. The
fact that there's political partys is all a scam that anyone can see
if you look closely enough. If you think a democrat is the answer,
cite reasons why, and I'll show you exactly how it makes no difference
at all.
America is a democracy that was never intended. It was intended to be
a Republic. A land not ruled by law, but a land ruled by The People.
That is absolutely not what exists today...we are ruled by colorable
law, the government is feared and corrupt in ALL parties. Govt is
supposed to serve *US*, NOT it's own interests.
Don't ever put down the second amendment. The second amendment is
there SOLELY to protect us from our own government. Guns don't kill
people, people kill people. And often times, it's done with the
govt's inciting the people to do just that.
Come on folks...the "democrats vs the republicans" is an old and
boring charade. It's no longer valid. The war now is The People vs
The Govt. The sooner we all realize this, the faster positive change
will come about. People worldwide, *overwhelmingly* want peace...the
govt's do NOT.
johnma...@eatshit.com
On 25-Jul-2003, LetEmE...@yahoo.com (Marie A.) wrote:
> From: LetEmE...@yahoo.com (Marie A.)
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.gw-bush
> Subject: Re: Americans are blood-thirsty
> Date: 25 Jul 2003 16:19:55 -0700
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> "Ethic" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<3f2168fc$0$22096$5402...@news.sunrise.ch>...
> > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4203.htm
> >
> > 07/24/03 - By Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
> >
> > America is shamed.
>
>
> Bogus Ethics, I often wonder if any of you psychotic liberals realize
> just how utterly foolish and childlike you appear when you post up
> sophmoric drivel by leftist political hacks like this obvious
> internationalist is? Do you think this is a fifth grade civics class
> or something?
>
> Sir, it's a rough world out there, and the sooner morons like this
> with a taste for sausage learn how it's made, the better off we'll all
> be. People are trying to kill us - mean, evil, nasty and brutal
> people. One doesn't babble on about democracy when we're taking the
> fight to our enemy's shores so as to avoid us having to do it here at
> much greater cost. One of the reasons we're beginning to so despise
> you appeasement monkeys is that you'll fight for nothing and quibble
> about everything, thus bringing us to a point where we will ultimately
> have to fight at far greater loss of life and property.
>
> You people are vile and evil twisters of the truth and almost
> everything you post exhibits a profound hatred for America and every
> value she stands for. Most of you near-treasonous mountebanks are
> Fifth Column frauds and beneath contempt. (Cordially, Marie)
>
> (Cordially, Marie
Marie...you make me STIFF with desire when you 'get uppity'!
John M.
x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
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Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
> >
> > 07/24/03 - By Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
> >
> > America is shamed.
>
>
> just how utterly foolish and childlike you appear when you post up
> sophmoric drivel by leftist political hacks like this obvious
> internationalist is? Do you think this is a fifth grade civics class
> or something?
>
> Sir, it's a rough world out there, and the sooner morons like this
> with a taste for sausage learn how it's made, the better off we'll all
> be. People are trying to kill us - mean, evil, nasty and brutal
> people. One doesn't babble on about democracy when we're taking the
> fight to our enemy's shores so as to avoid us having to do it here at
> much greater cost. One of the reasons we're beginning to so despise
> you appeasement monkeys is that you'll fight for nothing and quibble
> about everything, thus bringing us to a point where we will ultimately
> have to fight at far greater loss of life and property.
>
> You people are vile and evil twisters of the truth and almost
> everything you post exhibits a profound hatred for America and every
> value she stands for. Most of you near-treasonous mountebanks are
> Fifth Column frauds and beneath contempt. (Cordially, Marie)
>
> (Cordially, Marie
Hi Marie,
I didn't post my own piece to the usenet, someone else did that
without my knowledge, but thanks anyway, for making my point for me in
such a public and obvious way. Your response only validates my
personal impressions.
What, by the way, makes you think I'm psychotic or immoral? Because I
disagree with you and believe the Bush administration is damaging this
country I love? Because, like you, I care about what the future
holds?
A couple of points:
- Ronald Reagan built the biggest terrorist network the world has ever
seen and that network is still in place today. Not my opinion, it's
fact. You can look it up.
- Ronald Reagan's administration did more to unbalance the equitable
distribution of wealth in the US (and outside of the US) than any
administration before the current Bush administration, which has done
more to funnel our country's wealth out of the hands of the lower and
middle classes and into the hands of the top 1% of the wealthy. This
isn't just me they're ripping off, it's you too. This is NOT to say
that the Democrats did much to reverse it. BOTH parties are guilty of
ripping off the American public. This isn't my opinion. It's fact.
As in, you can look it up.
- Concepts like right and left are really just American points of
view, which means that, basically they're public relations theory at
this point. You'd say I'm from "the left", but really the same things
that bother you (censorship, lack of peace and ...?) bother me. I
care for the security of our country, and I couldn't be more against
terrorism. My point is that we're not actually doing anything but
encourage it. And we're going broke in the process. Can you accept
that the patriotic impulse can take many different shapes?
- Governments and administrations are not what they want you to
believe they are from their press statements. Bush is not the nice
guy that you see at the microphone any more than Bill Clinton was the
good wholesome guy that he appeared. We found out he lied and many
were outraged. Lying is not presidential behavior. We all agree on
that point. But Bush's lie has cost thousands of lives and counting
and yet many people don't seem to have a problem with it. It's a
bigger sin, I guess, to cheat on your wife and lie about it than it is
to kill millions of people in the name of profit and lie to the
American people about why.
- Both people from the "left" and people from the "right" can be
hypocritical, intolerant and corrupt. These are not party traits in
general.
- The TV and Radio news media are all owned by 6 of the world's
largest corporations. They are NOT reporting unbiased news. The New
York Times, while not entirely free of bias either, at least has as
many writers on the "left" as on the "right". Fox "News", CNN and
MSNBC are the least reliable "news" sources there are. If you form
your opinions based on those news sources, there's an overwhelming
chance that you're opinions and beliefs are based on bad information.
- If you think the Bush administration is working for justice, peace
and equality, then I'd suggest you do some reading. I'm not being a
"pissy leftist", I'm trying to tell you that while I think you may be
a Republican because of your values, and your impulse to protect and
cherish your country are laudable; the people in charge are NOT
working for your benefit or the preservation of your values and
they're not working for the best interests of our country. They are
working for their own person profit. The same kind of problems exist
in the Democratic Party, which is why a lot of people who refer to
themselves as "progressives" are working for real political reform in
our country. When Clinton proved that he wasn't really preserving
the values that I voted him into office for, I stopped supporting him.
What I can't understand is why Republicans, in the face of tremendous
evidence, won't ever question the Bush administration. It's brand
loyalty the likes of which even Nike has never seen. But maybe this
is just human nature and "leftist" do it too. I am not interested in
being "a liberal" or being "a conservative". I AM interested in
seeing this world become a better, more just, peaceful and survivable
place when I leave it than it was when I came into it.
I'd recommend you start reading:
http://alternet.org
http://commondreams.org
http://informationclearinghouse.info
http://fromthewilderness.com
http://www.adbusters.org
in addition to the New York Times, Reuters and the BBC (for a
non-American viewpoint.). Remember that just because you like what
someone tells you, it isn't necessarily healthy or true.
You should give a listen to Noam Chomsky's "The War on Terrorism: Fact
and Fiction". You can buy a copy from http://alternativeradio.org on
either tape or CD.
If, after you've read some of what's being reported in the
non-corporate press, you still think the Bush administrations have got
it right, please enlighten me (without demonizing me, thank you). I'd
like to understand how a thinking person, who isn't just misinformed,
could support the actions of this administration unconditionally. I
believe the Bush administration to be criminals, not out of prejudice,
but through conclusions drawn from diligent research. Where do you
get your information? Why do you believe they're doing the right
thing?
Remember, a system is what a system does. Even if you believe that
the people in charge have a different vision or a benevolent desire,
the system itself is causing more harm than good. We cannot judge by
what we think lives in a persons heart, but we can judge by what a
person does and the effects of that persons work. It's universal and
we can all be measured by it.
Thanks for caring enough to write with all your passion. Please, take
the time to perform some due diligence. You could really make a
difference, if you know. It just takes an open mind.
Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
Don't miss the New Pro-Peace Single from
R-Three: Something to Believe In
http://www.mp3.com.au/s2bi
--------------------------------------
R-Three - Music for the heart and mind
http://r-three.com
http://perceptualdistortion.com
Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
Exactly! Sure, this administration is particularly destructive. But
the Democrats aren't innocent either. In fact, as paranoid as it
sounds, I'm beginng to believe that both major party's play us against
each other more to keep us from uniting into an effective populace,
than for their own gain. Think about it, if we fight each other,
we'll be too busy to fight the the government. A system is what a
system does. And this system pits Americans against Americans.
People like Marie who posted to my piece above, are in an ironic
sense, the saddest victims in that they're being whipped up into such
a frenzy that they'll be willing to give away their own freedoms and
betray their own moral codes in the name of "Homeland Security" and
"Patriotism". The very country and ideals they think they're
defending is being eroded, in part, by their own support. But then,
we're all victims in a sense, until we start to take our power AND our
responsibility back.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
Don't miss the New Pro-Peace Single from
R-Three: Something to Believe In
http://www.mp3.com.au/s2bi
--------------------------------------------------
R-Three - Independent media for the heart and mind
http://r-three.com
http://www.perceptualdistortion.com
gr...@internet.charitydays.co.uk
>hank_th...@myself.com (Hank's Still Drunk & Fun) wrote in message news:<5d31bfc1.03072...@posting.google.com>...
>> pigfa...@yahoo.com (Laura Bush - America's kid-killer) wrote in message news:<e2eb3c97.0307...@posting.google.com>...
>> > "Ethic" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<3f2168fc$0$22096$5402...@news.sunrise.ch>...
>> > > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4203.htm
>> > >
>> > > 07/24/03 - By Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
>> > >
>> > > America is shamed.
>> > >
>> >
>> > It's not america. It's the GOP that is so bloodthirsty. They not
>> > only love wars, they also love guns and cars and executions. They
>> > love to kill.
>>
>> This coming from a democrat, most likely, right?
>>
>> pigfarm, it is NOT partisan. Try to get yourself out of that line of
>> thinking. If a dem was in office, we'd still be faced with similar
>> problems, and the crux of ALL the issues would be no different. The
".........If a dem was in office, we'd still be faced with similar problems........."
That's not true.
"Man X" and "Man Y" START with the same problem.
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
These two men each handle the same problem in different ways.
This produces two different results.
"Man X" is now faced with a worse problem than the one he started with.
"Man Y" is faced with another problem, but it's an easier problem than the one he started with.
This same process continues until the Presidential term comes to an end.
"Man X" is dealing with problems on a downward spiral.
"Man Y" is dealing with problems on an upward spiral.
You see, every decision you make, produces another situation.
Every new situation requires another decision.
Every decision produces another situation.
Every new situation requires another decision.
And so it goes on into infinity.
Crudely put, you are either making things better or worse, by what you are doing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
johnma...@eatshit.com
On 25-Jul-2003, LetEmE...@yahoo.com (Marie A.) wrote:
> From: LetEmE...@yahoo.com (Marie A.)
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.gw-bush
> Subject: Re: Americans are blood-thirsty
> Date: 25 Jul 2003 16:19:55 -0700
> Organization: http://groups.google.com/
> Lines: 30
> Message-ID: <1dc521ed.03072...@posting.google.com>
> References: <3f2168fc$0$22096$5402...@news.sunrise.ch>
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> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> X-Trace: posting.google.com 1059175195 5878 127.0.0.1 (25 Jul 2003
> 23:19:55 GMT)
> X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jul 2003 23:19:55 GMT
> Path:
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> Xref: N21 alt.politics.bush:362571 alt.politics.democrats:58963
> alt.politics.gw-bush:53722
>
> "Ethic" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<3f2168fc$0$22096$5402...@news.sunrise.ch>...
> > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4203.htm
> >
> > 07/24/03 - By Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
> >
> > America is shamed.
>
>
> Bogus Ethics, I often wonder if any of you psychotic liberals realize
> just how utterly foolish and childlike you appear when you post up
> sophmoric drivel by leftist political hacks like this obvious
> internationalist is? Do you think this is a fifth grade civics class
> or something?
>
> Sir, it's a rough world out there, and the sooner morons like this
> with a taste for sausage learn how it's made, the better off we'll all
> be. People are trying to kill us - mean, evil, nasty and brutal
> people. One doesn't babble on about democracy when we're taking the
> fight to our enemy's shores so as to avoid us having to do it here at
> much greater cost. One of the reasons we're beginning to so despise
> you appeasement monkeys is that you'll fight for nothing and quibble
> about everything, thus bringing us to a point where we will ultimately
> have to fight at far greater loss of life and property.
>
> You people are vile and evil twisters of the truth and almost
> everything you post exhibits a profound hatred for America and every
> value she stands for. Most of you near-treasonous mountebanks are
> Fifth Column frauds and beneath contempt. (Cordially, Marie)
>
> (Cordially, Marie
Ahhh, Marriieee! Ghod it's been too long since I've seen you spew your
particularly vicious brand of claptrap. You could at least stop ripping off
your BS from Coulter, but since she has ghostwriters too, I guess you're
just being flattering to 'Eva Braun' Ann.
You sure are doing a fine job supporting the troops. Seen the latest body
count? Not that you and your ilk would care..."I regret that others have
only so many lives to give for my country"....yes?
You are so sexy when you GET UPPITY!
Back in your hidey-hole with the Dick, bootlicker.
Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
Oh, I'm not saying there aren't differences between the "left" and the
"right" or the Democrats and Republicans. What I'm saying is that
both parties are guilty of some of the same financial crimes against
the people and both parties are, in a sense, bought and paid for by
Corporate America and special interest groups, though I'd say that the
recent Republican administrations are either more obviously controlled
(or influenced, if you prefer) by corporations than the Democratic
administrations in recent years. Both parties are slimy and both are,
to some degree, responsible for low voter confidence. The latest
demand for a WMD investigation by the Democratic Party looks like
greed now that they smell blood in the water. Where were these people
when Bush and Company were pushing through the Patriot Act and the
"War on Terror, Parts 1 and 2 (Afghanistan and Iraq)"? My sense is
that they were cowering, holding on to their careers by "playing it
safe".
My point is to say that as long as we think in terms of "left" vs.
"right", we're just tools for those with power. If we the people want
responsible government, then we the people need to demand
accountability from our representatives in both parties since a third
major party at this point will only weaken the balance of power and a
candidate for a fourth major party doesn't seem to be forthcoming
since the Republican party is so good at convincing their followers
that they are actually "winning".
Where does this leave us? It leaves us where we always are. We have
to choose an alternative, even if it's the only alternative. We must.
But we can, and in my opinion should, stop thinking of ourselves as
Democrats and Republicans, "left" or "right" and begin thinking of
ourselves as the "American Peoples Party"(forgive me if there actually
is an American Peoples Party out there) and start examining the
actions of our government, not their pithy sound-byte friendly
infomercials.
There's a bumper sticker that's been around for years that reads
something like "If the people lead, the leaders will follow". This
isn't a divine prophesy or a prediction of a naturally occurring
condition, it's an ideal. People like Howard Dean are starting to
realize that they need to actually listen to the mood of the people
and shape their candidacies to give the people what they want. Do I
believe that Howard Dean has his own vision for the USA? Sort of. I
believe he's a politician who has some good ideas of his own, but is
smart enough to realize that, like all politicians, he needs to shape
his opinions to better serve those who elect him. And instead of
getting his support from Corporate America, he's getting it from every
day people like you and me. And whether you believe in Howard Dean
or not, this is an example of the people leading (telling him where to
go, resonating with is speeches when he gets it right) and the leaders
following.
And if the Republicans won't listen to the people, then the Democrats
absolutely have to. But I say let us use the political parties to
refocus our country on serving the people, not let the parties use us
to serve their corporate masters.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
--------------------------------------
R-Three - Media for the heart and mind
http://r-three.com
http://www.perceptualdistortion.com
--------------------------------------
Erik Aronesty
> realize that they need to actually listen to the mood of the people
> and shape their candidacies to give the people what they want. Do I
> believe that Howard Dean has his own vision for the USA? Sort of. I
Yep.
The last thing I want is a "representative" who has his own vision and
who refuses to back down and admit he is wrong in the face of
overwhelming opposition from his own people. I want him to work for
me. To "represent" me.
> believe he's a politician who has some good ideas of his own, but is
> smart enough to realize that, like all politicians, he needs to shape
> his opinions to better serve those who elect him. And instead of
> getting his support from Corporate America, he's getting it from every
> day people like you and me. And whether you believe in Howard Dean
Recently, we've had president after president "representing" the views
of the special-interests, and ignoring the people.
I like the idea of a candidate who is paid for by the people, who
works for the people and is, ultimately, held accountable by the
people for his actions. Rather than Hollywood presidents or
Weapons/Oil presidents.
> or not, this is an example of the people leading (telling him where to
> go, resonating with is speeches when he gets it right) and the leaders
> following.
It's seems like it's a lot harder to do. And it's going to be
difficult for him to heep polling his voters and finding out what
issues concern them the most. He'll probably have to change his
positions over time, etc. I'm busy trying to get him to commit to
reading pres...@whitehouse.gov email (filtered and summarized by
staffers, of course)
;)
> And if the Republicans won't listen to the people, then the Democrats
> absolutely have to. But I say let us use the political parties to
> refocus our country on serving the people, not let the parties use us
> to serve their corporate masters.
Well said.
James Hall
Hank's Still Drunk & Fun
> absolutely have to. But I say let us use the political parties to
> refocus our country on serving the people, not let the parties use us
> to serve their corporate masters.
>
> Thanks for the bandwidth,
> Rhett Redelings-MacDermott
Democans and Republocrats both serve the same agenda, as do the
Libercontrarians.
Nothing about the current election system will change anything.
The international monopolies on money are what run and rule
everything. The proof is *everywhere*.
When you speak of corporate interests, you have to remember that all
of the largest corporate interests are owned by the same people and
organizations.
When you create the money supply used, you also are empowered to own
almost everything as well. This is exactly what has happened.
The Federal Reserve System is a system our country was sold out to...a
private organization, operated by who knows...just a few dozen people
at most that conveniently has constitutional exemptions. When you
print the money, you can buy anything. You can also control it's
output and artificially create inflations and deflations.
A substance-backed (such as gold) currency is virtually immune to
these fluctuations.
So until we get out from under the Federal Reserve, the political
parties (all of them) that serve it, the government that is a slave to
it, the people who ARE slaves to it...nothing will ever change.
NOTHING. And in fact, as we are all witnessing; it will get much
worse.
Our country has been clearly and demonstratingly sold out. A national
debt paid back with interest cannot and will never be able to be paid
back. Meanwhile, we're (our govt in conjunction with the federal
reserve) funding and helping nearly every other country on earth
except our own.
I wonder why. Hmmm, Mr. Adolf Bush...why go invade all these other
countrys, spending billions, when we would really love to have that
kind of assistance HERE at HOME to help rebuild our
industrial/production base to help all the people HERE who need the
work and money to support OUR families?!?
HMMMMMMMMMMM. Guess we need to git' all those "terrorists", huh.
Meanwhile, the "Patriot Act" has effectively defined nearly every
single US Citizen as a potential "terrorist". How conVEEEENient.
As the saying goes; "If you're not outraged...you're simply not paying
attention." Until everyone wakes up and realizes that it's the banks
that are killing us and the world, we will be going nowhere but down,
and fast.
It's the banking monopoly folks. It's the monetary supply. It't the
IMF and it's association with the UN/World Bank/Federal Reserve and
everything else. It's the "dollarization" of other countrys. It's
the money folks, the actual MAKERS of the money. It's the money, it's
the money, it's the money. Repeat that to yourself until it
registers, and then repeat it again and again and again to everyone
you know.
Then just maybe, we'll all have a LITTLE hope.