> > > > > >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/famine/story/0,12128,737470,00.html > > > > > >> Gripped by severe food shortages, with a potentially vast famine > > > > > looming, > > > > > >> the Zimbabwean authorities have rejected a US government donation > > > > > of 10,000 > > > > > >> tonnes of maize, worth $6m, because it has not been certified as > > > > > free from > > > > > >> genetic modification.
> > > > > >> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/ > > > > > >> Angola: nominally a multiparty democracy > > > > > >> Zambia: Republic;president elected by popular vote for > a > > > > > >> five-year term > > > > > >> Zimbabwe: parliamentary democracy > > > > > >> Mozambique: republic;president elected by popular vote for a > > > > > five-year > > > > > >> term > > > > > >> Malawi: multiparty democracy > > > > > >> Lesotho: parliamentary constitutional monarchy > > > > > >> Swaziland: monarchy; independent member of Commonwealth
> > > > > >> Funny... Not a socialist in the bunch....
> > > > > >More leftist lies.
> > > > > The CIA is socialist?
> > > > CIA is WRONG.
> > > Then please tell them so. I'm sure it will come as a surprise to them > but at > > > least we will likely never hear from you again....
> > Bwahaha, listened to too many "Death Squad" tales, comrade?
> No. Just figured they'd lock you up and throw away the key. Wouldn't be the > first time...
> OK I guess I'm not fooling you. Your posts are so pathetic and stupid that > they undoubtably will not take you seriously enough.
> > > > When reading the news about the DR Congo you can't tell who > > > > are the Communists because of the PC media.
> > > Oh, I see. They are only claimed to be market economies and you know > this > > > because the voices in your head keep you from listening to the lies of > the > > > government, media, scientists, statesmen, leaders, etc.
> > > And here I thought it was just an empty echo...
> > Government isn't the solution, its the problem... > > --Reagan
> Reagan wasn't the solution, he was the problem...
> Ditto and doubled for any of his quotes.
Reagan needs to be on Mt Rushmore.
Hey, Rush knows that it is Zambia who is rejecting genetically modified (GM) food. Perhaps you should listen in and learn a thing or two.
> > > Operative work is *was*. However, as these are also described as > republics > > > or democratic countries, I am not sure what you are trying to suggest.
> > bwhaha "Democratic", remember E Germany - the DDR translated the > > Democratic German Republic? they were plain plain old communists. Nothing > > democratic about a dictatorship.
> You are welcome to try to 'correct' the dictionaries, the U.N. the CIA, > public media, CSIS, etc until your ass falls off. So many authorities seem > to find you rather stupid. I wonder why? I have a wild prediction. They > will laugh in your face. At least as long as you don't seem to a > *dangerously* deranged nutcase.
> > > <snip> > > > > I just realized that you are not talking about the subject I posed - > i.e. > > > > feeding the starving Africans with GM food. Perhaps YOU should clarify > the > > > > fact that the food we are sending them is a conspiracy to get them > hooked > > > > on GM seeds, I guess after they plant the seed. This is the first I've > > > > heard of this devious plot.
> > > Then you haven't been paying attention. The reason the seed is being > blocked > > > is because it is seed and Zimbabwe does not allow import of GM seed. > It's > > > the LAW.
> > Zambia is the country who will not accept the food. <ws>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/famine/story/0,12128,737470,00.html > Gripped by severe food shortages, with a potentially vast famine looming, > the Zimbabwean authorities have rejected a US government donation of 10,000 > tonnes of maize, worth $6m, because it has not been certified as free from > genetic modification.
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/ > Angola: nominally a multiparty democracy > Zambia: Republic;president elected by popular vote for a > five-year term > Zimbabwe: parliamentary democracy > Mozambique: republic;president elected by popular vote for a five-year > term > Malawi: multiparty democracy > Lesotho: parliamentary constitutional monarchy > Swaziland: monarchy; independent member of Commonwealth
> Funny... Not a socialist in the bunch. Primarily market economies, based > on democracy or republics with popular elections.
> > > They have expressed no reservations of accepting the FOOD.
> > > The reason for the LAW is as stated.
> > > Subsistence farming is based on 'seed saving' which normally propagates > > > suitable local varieties. However, GM seed doesn't LOOK any different, > so > > > the subsistence farmer is likely to plant some of it, if given our as > seed. > > > This is not only logical, it has happened over and over. Look at GM > > > contamination of Mexican corn varieties.
> > And the Mexicans are running out of tortillas because of this? NOT!
> Playing stupid is so passe...
> You are playing...right?
> > > And the GM companies know it, and use political pressure to try to get > the > > > seed into the countreis by any excuse, knowing that it will inevitably > > > result in genetic contamination of local crops. Once the corn is > > > contaminated, that will open up the legal challenges for Monsanto, for > > > example, to gain an stranglehold on the cotton crop, since blocking GM > > > varieties will be a 'spent effort'. They really don't care about the > local > > > corn farmers or famine. They want the big markets.
> > > Mill the seed. Feed the famine victims. Problem solved.
> > Ian, the MEDIA is reporting that Zambia will not accept our food aid. <ws>
> Witless.. The MEDIA is reporting that the food went to Zambia and Malawi > after some initial reluctance.
And that's why they are starving?
> > If someone else in the Ministry of Truth (MINITRU) has written a > > doubleplusungood account of the African Aid, I'll have them sent to Rm. > > 101 in the Ministry of Love. (MINILUV)
> Oh?
> Try google with "Zimbabwe seed GM refused" and be prepared for a few hundred > newpapers that need 'correcting' in your 'ministry of truth'.
> > > > > > Starving people who wont eat it to save their lives deserve to be > > > > > > naturally de-selected, and leaders who reject their food are > > > > > > murderers.
> > > > > So you blame the Ag-Business that is pressuring government to > prevent > > > > > milling of the seeds, while holding the starving peasants at ransom?
> > > > Prove your thesis first.
> > > Your ignorance is not my problem. Do your own research.
> > > > > It is good to know who is at FAULT in this situation. Mobutu seems > quite > > > > > willing to distribute milled grain. The peasants are quite willing > to > > > > > accept the resulting meal. Ergo, where is the problem and who is the > actual > > > > > criminal? Too bad these arrogant pigs won't pay the price.
> > You act like the beggars don't know how to mill grain. Is that our job? If > > they don't have spoons, should the US spoon feed them?
> Nope. I agree that the solution is to mill the grain and this can be done in > Zimbabwe easily. Why hasn't it? You have the Zimbabwe governmetn which has > agreed that the solution is to mill the grain, and you have the American > negotiators.
> Who is bogging things down?
> And why?
So, we were talking about Zambia. See:
> > If the Zambian government decides that GM grain is a worse threat that > > starvation, then the bureaucrats are to blame and the people should burn > > their houses down (with them inside.) The tragedy is that the poor cannot > > read this else they wouldn't actually be starving.
> > This isn't hate speech, its freedomspeak.
> No. It is stupidspeak mixed with ignorantspeak. You have both your facts > wrong and your basis for objection is lacking in substance. Mill the seed. > End of problem. What is so hard for you to understand??
You - you are covering up this post as of Sat. 8/31/02. Why do you lie when anyone can read what a moron you are?
> > -- > > "Self-defense is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is not, > > neither can it be in fact, taken away by laws of society." > > -- Sir William Blackstone
> > > > > In article <3d6e2ab...@audacity.velocet.net>, "Ian St. John" > > > > > <istj...@spamcop.net> wrote: > > > > <snip> > > > > > > Nor was this your major claim. Your major claim was that Zimbabwe > > was > > > > not > > > > > > refusing the grain ( also wrong ).
> > > > > You lying sack of shit. Here is my first post. You will notice a date > > and > > > > > a reference. Note that Zimbabwe wasan asside at the end. You are the > > one > > > > > who changed my subject, now lie about it.
> > > > You pustulent sore.. Get off my ass... Your post ( starting this > > > > sub-thread ) was
> > > Admit you lied. You erased my initial post again: > > <snip>
> > Listen Witless. You may have many posts. Some of them may resemble this one. > > But THIS subthread was started by
> > > > > Zambia is the country who will not accept the food. Zimbabwe are your > > > > > communists buddies who take whatever the can steal.
> > > > <etc>----------------------------------
> > And has continued from that. You are trying to claim that because you made a > > different error elsewhere, my response to THIS statement is wrong?
> > What a loonie loser. > \
> Liar, I should know how I started the thread!
Obviously you have problems with 'moving on'. The postings on some threads change drastically from the post that started it all. When someone makes a different point or claim, and the responses are directed at that point, it is stupid to point to the original post and claim that you are right because the response is not relevant to the start of the total thread. You created this subthread by your statement given above that Zambia had refused GM corn and that Zimbabwe was stealing it.
> Anyway as of today Zambia is still the country who will not > accept the food. YOU said they did.
Actually, the final decision was announnced late on the Friday, the 16th, http://ens-news.com/ens/aug2002/2002-08-19-05.asp but not reported until Monday the 20th. It is *possible* that your reference from the 17th was a report on this, but since it said nothing about this being a new change, or of the decisions to buy local grain, it is impossible to determine if this referred to the initial refusal or the later refusal. I said it did based on the fact that all my searches came up with the fact that after the early refusal, Zambia accepted the grain, and I did not see the later reversal.
Not that this makes your statement any more true, since you also tied the refusal to Zimbabwe stealing the grain, which I knew to be false both in terms of refusal and in terms of theft, as well as in terms of calling them communists.
I will admit to an error in not finding the reference to the later refusal, but this is a drop in the bucket compared to your continual and incessant errors.
> eViL Chicken Littles Kill Starving Africans
Calling the GM seed companies "evil chicken littles' does nothing for your arugments. They are not killing anyone, but merely refusing to help, in order to use the 'politics of starvation' promote their GM seed varieties. Ethically, it is reprehenible, but it is not acutal killing.
> <me> The government of Zambia is rejecting genetically modified (GM) food > which could save their citizens because the EVIL Chicken Littles panicked > them from accepting GM food. Even if GM food was radioactive (which it > isn't for you eco-socialist panic mongers) they would escape death by > decades. The propaganda against bioengineered food is unscrupulous. The > Chicken Lichen irrational rejection of salvation through a GM free lunch > is beyond science and logic. There may be problems, but feeding starving > people isn't one of them. How do you cure irrational fear?
See a psychiatrist. On the other hand, what is irrational about keeping locally suitable seed crops? Their is no rejection due to fears of the GM seed being poisonous. All countries have agreed to allowing the GM corn as long as it is milled and cannot be used as seed. You have shown no 'irrational fear' or "irrational rejection of salvation through a GM free lunch". The "GM"ness of the grain was not a factor in the 'free lunch' unless you are saying that it was sent because Europe rejected it as contaminated and therefore it was sent rather than go to waste...
As to the food issue, the point you keep skipping over is that Zambia IS providing grain from local suppliers which makes your whole argument rather irrational. From the reference above "By international treaty, nations can refuse to allow genetically modified foods to cross their border" so you are promoting definance of international law as well as false arguments about "starving the people" by refusing contaminated grain as seed.
> GENEVA, Aug 23 2002(AFP/Clari.net fair use) - The World Food Programme > (WFP) on Friday said that Zambia was now the only famine-hit southern > African country to reject genetically-modified food aide after concerns > raised by Zimbabwe and Mozambique were resolved.
So, only Zambia is providing it's own relief. As to the 'concerns of Zimbabwe and Mozambique', these are code for *MILLING THE GRAIN* you fucking stupid turdhead.
Do you think we are so stupid as to not know that??? As I said, if the question is feeding the starving with GM corn, then mill the grain.
Note: As I have said repeatedly, the problems are lack of money in a market economy, not lack of food. Food aid is not about it being food, but about it being free.
"Recently, a group of 8,000 small-scale farmers protested the importation of genetically modified maize from America, fearing the dislocation of the local farming systems and indigenous crop varieties."
Economic coercion by fatcat GM seed monopolies is EVIL.
> WFP's Executive Director James Morris said he was very worried about the > more than two million people at risk of starvation in Zambia, one of six > badly-affected countries in the region.
> "There are no biotech-GM issues in Malawi, Swaziland or Lesotho. We've > essentially resolved the biotech-GM issues in Zimbabwe and in Mozambique," > Morris told a press conference.
Yes. Having no GM testing or agricultural research it is easier to dupe small poor countries.
And the smarter countries will accept the milled corn as it's use as food will not contaminate local seed varieties.
> <me> Man, are we giving the commies in Zimbabwe food? IDIOTS!
There are no communist countries involved as you well know. Nor is their government based on command economies. The zimbabwe women walking to sell water to buy food shows clearly that they cannot count on a command economy but are subject to the market system which has no mercy on the poor.
The IDIOTS, I presume applies to yourself since you repeatedly make idiotic claims which can easily be shown to be such.
> ... > The World Health Organisation earlier Friday announced it had called a > three-day meeting in Harare, Zimbabwe, from Monday to be attended by > health ministers from 10 African countries to discuss the health aspects > of the humanitarian crisis...
> MORONS, LEAVE Zimbabwe!
Are you in Zimbabwe?? Or are you referring to the World Health Organization? I can assure you that they are not morons.
> In article <3d6ff...@audacity.velocet.net>, "Ian St. John" > <istj...@spamcop.net> wrote: > > "Winston Smith" <wsm...@minitrue.oceana.gov> wrote in message
> > > Government isn't the solution, its the problem... > > > --Reagan
> > Reagan wasn't the solution, he was the problem...
> > Ditto and doubled for any of his quotes.
> Reagan needs to be on Mt Rushmore.
According to Reagans quote, not only should *he* not be on Mt. Rushmore, but neither should Washington, Roosevelt, Jefferson or Lincoln..
> Hey, Rush knows that it is Zambia who is rejecting genetically modified > (GM) food. Perhaps you should listen in and learn a thing or two.
From Rush Limbaugh??? Not likely. No matter how fresh his sources of data, his conclusions are suspect. Not bad though for an under-educated fast talker with a message that is welcomed by fools and imbeciles. The general public is dumb. Just look at TV where he has his audience..
> > > > > "Winston Smith" <wsm...@minitrue.oceana.gov> wrote in message
> news:C6DDDABCB3D65FDC.57DF01C83400DEAE.26B79CABAA432AA2@lp.airnews.net... > > > > > > In article <3d6e2ab...@audacity.velocet.net>, "Ian St. John" > > > > > > <istj...@spamcop.net> wrote: > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > Nor was this your major claim. Your major claim was that > Zimbabwe > > > was > > > > > not > > > > > > > refusing the grain ( also wrong ).
> > > > > > You lying sack of shit. Here is my first post. You will notice a > date > > > and > > > > > > a reference. Note that Zimbabwe wasan asside at the end. You are > the > > > one > > > > > > who changed my subject, now lie about it.
> > > > > You pustulent sore.. Get off my ass... Your post ( starting this > > > > > sub-thread ) was
> > > > Admit you lied. You erased my initial post again: > > > <snip>
> > > Listen Witless. You may have many posts. Some of them may resemble this > one. > > > But THIS subthread was started by
> > > > > > Zambia is the country who will not accept the food. Zimbabwe are > your > > > > > > communists buddies who take whatever the can steal.
> > > > > <etc>----------------------------------
> > > And has continued from that. You are trying to claim that because you > made a > > > different error elsewhere, my response to THIS statement is wrong?
> > > What a loonie loser. > > \
> > Liar, I should know how I started the thread!
> Obviously you have problems with 'moving on'. The postings on some threads > change drastically from the post that started it all. When someone makes a > different point or claim, and the responses are directed at that point, it > is stupid to point to the original post and claim that you are right because > the response is not relevant to the start of the total thread. You created > this subthread by your statement given above that Zambia had refused GM corn > and that Zimbabwe was stealing it.
> > Anyway as of today Zambia is still the country who will not > > accept the food. YOU said they did.
> Actually, the final decision was announnced late on the Friday, the 16th, > http://ens-news.com/ens/aug2002/2002-08-19-05.asp but not reported until > Monday the 20th. It is *possible* that your reference from the 17th was a > report on this, but since it said nothing about this being a new change, or > of the decisions to buy local grain, it is impossible to determine if this > referred to the initial refusal or the later refusal. I said it did based on > the fact that all my searches came up with the fact that after the early > refusal, Zambia accepted the grain, and I did not see the later reversal.
> Not that this makes your statement any more true, since you also tied the > refusal to Zimbabwe stealing the grain, which I knew to be false both in > terms of refusal and in terms of theft, as well as in terms of calling them > communists.
> I will admit to an error in not finding the reference to the later refusal, > but this is a drop in the bucket compared to your continual and incessant > errors.
I was willing to admit error on this when you said I was wrong, because its pretty black and white, whether Zambia accepts US GM corn or not, but you have been engaged in obfuscation since it became obvious YOU were the one in error. When you start claiming I said things I didn't say, that transcends being wrong to lying and covering up the truth.
The contention is over.
> > eViL Chicken Littles Kill Starving Africans
> Calling the GM seed companies "evil chicken littles' does nothing for your > arugments.
You liar. I was talking about Zambia you evil lying troll, this is not over until you admit you are a liar.
The contention is NOT over.
They are not killing anyone, but merely refusing to help, in
> order to use the 'politics of starvation' promote their GM seed varieties. > Ethically, it is reprehenible, but it is not acutal killing.
> > <me> The government of Zambia is rejecting genetically modified (GM) food > > which could save their citizens because the EVIL Chicken Littles panicked > > them from accepting GM food. Even if GM food was radioactive (which it > > isn't for you eco-socialist panic mongers) they would escape death by > > decades. The propaganda against bioengineered food is unscrupulous. The > > Chicken Lichen irrational rejection of salvation through a GM free lunch > > is beyond science and logic. There may be problems, but feeding starving > > people isn't one of them. How do you cure irrational fear?
> See a psychiatrist. On the other hand, what is irrational about keeping > locally suitable seed crops? Their is no rejection due to fears of the GM > seed being poisonous. All countries have agreed to allowing the GM corn as > long as it is milled and cannot be used as seed. You have shown no > 'irrational fear' or "irrational rejection of salvation through a GM free > lunch". The "GM"ness of the grain was not a factor in the 'free lunch' > unless you are saying that it was sent because Europe rejected it as > contaminated and therefore it was sent rather than go to waste...
> As to the food issue, the point you keep skipping over is that Zambia IS > providing grain from local suppliers which makes your whole argument rather > irrational. From the reference above "By international treaty, nations can > refuse to allow genetically modified foods to cross their border" so you are > promoting definance of international law as well as false arguments about > "starving the people" by refusing contaminated grain as seed.
> > GENEVA, Aug 23 2002(AFP/Clari.net fair use) - The World Food Programme > > (WFP) on Friday said that Zambia was now the only famine-hit southern > > African country to reject genetically-modified food aide after concerns > > raised by Zimbabwe and Mozambique were resolved.
> So, only Zambia is providing it's own relief. As to the 'concerns of > Zimbabwe and Mozambique', these are code for *MILLING THE GRAIN* you fucking > stupid turdhead.
> Do you think we are so stupid as to not know that??? As I said, if the > question is feeding the starving with GM corn, then mill the grain.
> Note: As I have said repeatedly, the problems are lack of money in a market > economy, not lack of food. Food aid is not about it being food, but about it > being free.
> "Recently, a group of 8,000 small-scale farmers protested the importation of > genetically modified maize from America, fearing the dislocation of the > local farming systems and indigenous crop varieties."
> Economic coercion by fatcat GM seed monopolies is EVIL.
> > WFP's Executive Director James Morris said he was very worried about the > > more than two million people at risk of starvation in Zambia, one of six > > badly-affected countries in the region.
> > "There are no biotech-GM issues in Malawi, Swaziland or Lesotho. We've > > essentially resolved the biotech-GM issues in Zimbabwe and in Mozambique," > > Morris told a press conference.
> Yes. Having no GM testing or agricultural research it is easier to dupe > small poor countries.
> And the smarter countries will accept the milled corn as it's use as food > will not contaminate local seed varieties.
> > <me> Man, are we giving the commies in Zimbabwe food? IDIOTS!
> There are no communist countries involved as you well know. Nor is their > government based on command economies. The zimbabwe women walking to sell > water to buy food shows clearly that they cannot count on a command economy > but are subject to the market system which has no mercy on the poor.
> The IDIOTS, I presume applies to yourself since you repeatedly make idiotic > claims which can easily be shown to be such.
> > ... > > The World Health Organisation earlier Friday announced it had called a > > three-day meeting in Harare, Zimbabwe, from Monday to be attended by > > health ministers from 10 African countries to discuss the health aspects > > of the humanitarian crisis...
> > MORONS, LEAVE Zimbabwe!
> Are you in Zimbabwe?? Or are you referring to the World Health Organization? > I can assure you that they are not morons.
> > > Reagan wasn't the solution, he was the problem...
> > > Ditto and doubled for any of his quotes.
> > Reagan needs to be on Mt Rushmore.
> According to Reagans quote, not only should *he* not be on Mt. Rushmore, but > neither should Washington, Roosevelt, Jefferson or Lincoln..
> > Hey, Rush knows that it is Zambia who is rejecting genetically modified > > (GM) food. Perhaps you should listen in and learn a thing or two.
> From Rush Limbaugh??? Not likely. No matter how fresh his sources of data, > his conclusions are suspect. Not bad though for an under-educated fast > talker with a message that is welcomed by fools and imbeciles. The general > public is dumb. Just look at TV where he has his audience..
He was right and you not only are wrong but lied about it and covered up you lies with obfuscation.
> In article <3d711...@audacity.velocet.net>, comrade "Ian St. John" > <istj...@spamcop.net> lies and obfuscation: <snip> > > > Anyway as of today Zambia is still the country who will not > > > accept the food. YOU said they did.
> > Actually, the final decision was announnced late on the Friday, the 16th, > > http://ens-news.com/ens/aug2002/2002-08-19-05.asp but not reported until > > Monday the 20th. It is *possible* that your reference from the 17th was a > > report on this, but since it said nothing about this being a new change, or > > of the decisions to buy local grain, it is impossible to determine if this > > referred to the initial refusal or the later refusal. I said it did based on > > the fact that all my searches came up with the fact that after the early > > refusal, Zambia accepted the grain, and I did not see the later reversal.
> > Not that this makes your statement any more true, since you also tied the > > refusal to Zimbabwe stealing the grain, which I knew to be false both in > > terms of refusal and in terms of theft, as well as in terms of calling them > > communists.
> > I will admit to an error in not finding the reference to the later refusal, > > but this is a drop in the bucket compared to your continual and incessant > > errors.
> I was willing to admit error on this when you said I was wrong, because > its pretty black and white, whether Zambia accepts US GM corn or not, but > you have been engaged in obfuscation since it became obvious YOU were the > one in error. When you start claiming I said things I didn't say, that > transcends being wrong to lying and covering up the truth.
> The contention is over.
You are still delusional. You are like the man who complains about the spec in anothers eye while ignoring the beam in his own.
> In article <3d711...@audacity.velocet.net>, comrade "Ian St. John" > <istj...@spamcop.net> lies and obfuscation:
> > > eViL Chicken Littles Kill Starving Africans
> > Calling the GM seed companies "evil chicken littles' does nothing for your > > arugments.
> You liar. I was talking about Zambia you evil lying troll, this is not > over until you admit you are a liar.
> The contention is NOT over.
You are referring to those who are 'killing starving africans"
Obviously that refers to those who both provide food unfit for consumption and at the same time try to overcharge for it, while holding the poor countries at hostage.
As there is no other contender for your "evil chicken littles" I made a logical conclusion.
> In article <3d711...@audacity.velocet.net>, comrade "Ian St. John" (AKA > NIXON) <istj...@spamcop.net> lies with obfuscation: <snp> > > > Hey, Rush knows that it is Zambia who is rejecting genetically modified > > > (GM) food. Perhaps you should listen in and learn a thing or two.
> > From Rush Limbaugh??? Not likely. No matter how fresh his sources of data, > > his conclusions are suspect. Not bad though for an under-educated fast > > talker with a message that is welcomed by fools and imbeciles. The general > > public is dumb. Just look at TV where he has his audience..
> He was right and you not only are wrong but lied about it and covered up > you lies with obfuscation.
Now you are claiming that Rush Limbaugh made a post claiming the Zambia refused the contaminated and overpriced grain 'aid'.
He did mention that it was contaminated and unfit for human consumption?
Did he mention that it was not 'food aid' but being offered for purchase with loan guarantees?
<istj...@spamcop.net> wrote: > "Winston Smith" <wsm...@minitrue.oceana.gov> wrote in message > news:DD5F83FDCC1B045C.9630060E53CE2008.B7427D4392730A3C@lp.airnews.net... > > In article <3d711...@audacity.velocet.net>, comrade "Ian St. John" (AKA > > NIXON) <istj...@spamcop.net> lies with obfuscation: > <snp> > > > > Hey, Rush knows that it is Zambia who is rejecting genetically > modified > > > > (GM) food. Perhaps you should listen in and learn a thing or two.
> > > From Rush Limbaugh??? Not likely. No matter how fresh his sources of > data, > > > his conclusions are suspect. Not bad though for an under-educated fast > > > talker with a message that is welcomed by fools and imbeciles. The > general > > > public is dumb. Just look at TV where he has his audience..
> > He was right and you not only are wrong but lied about it and covered up > > you lies with obfuscation.
> Now you are claiming that Rush Limbaugh made a post claiming the Zambia > refused the contaminated and overpriced grain 'aid'.
No moron, you are claiming that.
> He did mention that it was contaminated and unfit for human consumption?
> Did he mention that it was not 'food aid' but being offered for purchase > with loan guarantees?
> I'm wondering if he lies better than you.
I have the goods on you comrade eco-socialist.
-------- In article <3d6c5db...@audacity.velocet.net>, "Ian St. John"
> > > <snip> > > > > I just realized that you are not talking about the subject I posed - > i.e. > > > > feeding the starving Africans with GM food. Perhaps YOU should clarify > the > > > > fact that the food we are sending them is a conspiracy to get them > hooked > > > > on GM seeds, I guess after they plant the seed. This is the first I've > > > > heard of this devious plot.
> > > Then you haven't been paying attention. The reason the seed is being > blocked > > > is because it is seed and Zimbabwe does not allow import of GM seed. > It's > > > the LAW.
> > Zambia is the country who will not accept the food. (Ian)
Then you lied and said you were talking about something else, like the above obfuscation.
-------- re: Greens accused of helping Africans starve
GreenWatch: Eco-Socialists convince ZAMBIA it starve
<me> Hey Ian St. John- they are talking about your green comrades again. Yah, even Rush has been listening to your lies, yah, I heard him... he said Zambia won't accept food aid despite starving citizens. I recall you calling me a liar earlier for saying this.
I recall you called me all kinds of names too.
Eco-socialists kill people to "save the planet."
re: Greens accused of helping Africans starve
JOHANNESBURG ‹ U.S. AID Administrator Andrew Natsios accused environmental groups yesterday of endangering the lives of millions of famine-threatened Africans by encouraging their governments to reject genetically modified U.S. food aid.
"They can play these games with Europeans, who have full stomachs, but it is revolting and despicable to see them do so when the lives of Africans are at stake," Mr. Natsios said in an interview.
Mr. Natsios did not name specific groups, but other officials indicated he was infuriated by the activities in Zambia ‹ a country he had just visited ‹ of groups including Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth.
"They are using big-time, very well-organized propaganda the likes of which I have never seen before" in 12 years of American-led famine-relief efforts, said Mr. Natsios, who could not persuade the Zambians to accept U.S. food aid.
"The Bush administration is not going to sit there and let these groups kill millions of poor people in southern Africa through their ideological campaign," Mr. Natsios said on the sidelines of the World Summit on Sustainable Development.
The American aid chief, touring two of the seven southern African countries hit by severe food shortages, had just arrived from Lusaka, Zambia, where he failed to persuade President Levy Mwanawasa to accept American corn.
About 17,000 tons of American corn, about 30 percent of which was grown from genetically modified corn seeds, is sitting in storage in Zambia.
34 MILLION POUNDS of FOOD and the idiots turn up their noses? Get a rope!
Officials said Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth, other pressure groups and a Jesuit priest have been intensively lobbying Zambia and other regional states not to take the corn. According to Agence France-Presse, Mozambique also has reservations about accepting genetically modified corn from the United States.
The United States insists the corn is safe, but the environmental groups say it could cause dangerous mutations if it grows alongside the local varieties. They have also told Zambian and other African leaders that it could endanger the health of those who eat it. ... Clearly angry, the USAID administrator said he would "go on the offensive" to discredit the international advocacy groups who, he said, were endangering millions for ideological purposes.
U.N. officials have also pleaded with the Zambian government to reconsider its position. The World Health Organization said there is no evidence that such food is dangerous, while the WFP's director, James Morris, said there is no way his organization can feed Zambia's hungry without genetically modified food. ...
> > > In article <3d711...@audacity.velocet.net>, comrade "Ian St. John" (AKA > > > NIXON) <istj...@spamcop.net> lies with obfuscation: > > <snp> > > > > > Hey, Rush knows that it is Zambia who is rejecting genetically > > modified > > > > > (GM) food. Perhaps you should listen in and learn a thing or two.
> > > > From Rush Limbaugh??? Not likely. No matter how fresh his sources of > > data, > > > > his conclusions are suspect. Not bad though for an under-educated fast > > > > talker with a message that is welcomed by fools and imbeciles. The > > general > > > > public is dumb. Just look at TV where he has his audience..
> > > He was right and you not only are wrong but lied about it and covered up > > > you lies with obfuscation.
> > Now you are claiming that Rush Limbaugh made a post claiming the Zambia > > refused the contaminated and overpriced grain 'aid'.
> No moron, you are claiming that.
No. YOU claimed it by saying that Rush Limbaugh was 'right' on Zambia. I personally didn't know he'd even posted anything here, much less been right about his claims.
> > He did mention that it was contaminated and unfit for human consumption?
> > Did he mention that it was not 'food aid' but being offered for purchase > > with loan guarantees?
> > I'm wondering if he lies better than you.
> I have the goods on you comrade eco-socialist.
I guess he must. Your lies are pretty pathetic.
> -------- > In article <3d6c5db...@audacity.velocet.net>, "Ian St. John" > <istj...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > "Winston Smith" <wsm...@minitrue.oceana.gov> wrote in message
> > > > > In article <3d6b0...@audacity.velocet.net>, "Ian St. John" > > > > > <istj...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > > > <snip> > > > > > I just realized that you are not talking about the subject I posed - > > i.e. > > > > > feeding the starving Africans with GM food. Perhaps YOU should clarify > > the > > > > > fact that the food we are sending them is a conspiracy to get them > > hooked > > > > > on GM seeds, I guess after they plant the seed. This is the first I've > > > > > heard of this devious plot.
> > > > Then you haven't been paying attention. The reason the seed is being > > > > blocked is because it is seed and Zimbabwe does not allow import of > > > > GM seed. It's the LAW.
> > > Zambia is the country who will not accept the food. (Ian)
> Then you lied and said you were talking about something else, like the > above obfuscation.
Moron. You attribute your OWN statement to me???
Putting (Ian) at the end of the statement that YOU make does not make it my statement.
I was the one mkaing the "It's the LAW." paragraphs to which you responded with this idiocy.
> -------- > re: Greens accused of helping Africans starve
> GreenWatch: Eco-Socialists convince ZAMBIA it starve
> <me> Hey Ian St. John- they are talking about your green comrades again.
Still not sure who you are claiming to be eco-socialists. The parties here seem to be the country of Zambia vs the World Bank and GM seed companies intent of foisting Starlink contaminated cattle feed off as food for exorbiatant prices. Did Rush mention that part?
> Yah, even Rush has been listening to your lies, yah, I heard him... he > said Zambia won't accept food aid despite starving citizens. I recall you > calling me a liar earlier for saying this.
Still working at obsfucation? You made several mistakes.
You said that Zimbabwe was not refusing food ( it was) You said that Zimbabwe was communist ( it's not ) You said that Zimbabwe was stealing ( it isn't ) Then you said that Zambia was the country refusing aid, which is wrong in terms that many others countries were refusing aid and was wrong in terms that while earlier they had refused the aid, they had relented and for a long time were on track to use it ( why do you think it's in the warehouses, you bleeding idiot? Your bacon was saved on this because Zambia found out about the contamination and decide that it didn't want contaminated cattle feed. So, while technically you were right in that your reference COULD have been aware of the later turnaround and not just pointing to the first refusal, there is no reason to believe that it was anything more than a fluke on your part that you *could* have been right They made no reference to buying local supplies of HUMAN food.
I still have some problem with the whole 'food aid' thing. It's being presented as if the food was being donated instead of sold for ruinous prices using extortion ( loans tied to purchase of cattle feed for human consumption ) to try to pressure poor countries in distress.
What kind of 'aid' is that??? The whole mafia 'extortion racket' could be called 'aid' by those standards...
Does Rush mention that this is a SALE of contaminated grain by greedy corporations?
> I recall you called me all kinds of names too.
Naw, name calling requires that the name be inappropriate. I.E. calling a guy a girl. He has a right to be upset. But calling a boy a boy is not name calling. Nor is calling an idiot an idiot. You *earned* those labels. Be proud of you record. Nobody else in all my time posting on usenet has the record you have for making totally inane posts.
> Eco-socialists kill people to "save the planet."
See?? First you manufacture a label that fits no-one. Then you make up a 'factoid' without support.
It is an amazing gift to be so witless. Nobody can touch you for just plain stupidity and false statements.
> re: Greens accused of helping Africans starve
> JOHANNESBURG < U.S. AID Administrator Andrew Natsios accused environmental > groups yesterday of endangering the lives of millions of famine-threatened > Africans by encouraging their governments to reject genetically modified > U.S. food aid.
> "They can play these games with Europeans, who have full stomachs, but it > is revolting and despicable to see them do so when the lives of Africans > are at stake," Mr. Natsios said in an interview.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/IMF_WB/PlunderHumanFace.html World Bank policies have devastated the Third World. Between 1984 and l990, developing countries under SAPs transferred $178 billion to Western commercial banks. So enormous was the capital drain from the South that one former Bank director remarked: "Not since the conquistadors plundered Latin America has the world experienced such a flow in the direction we see today." By severely restricting government spending in favor of debt repayment, the loan terms of the Bank and the IMF have eviscerated the state they wish to be "effective," leaving in its wake spiraling poverty and hunger fueled by slashed food subsidies and decimated health and education sectors. "
> Mr. Natsios did not name specific groups, but other officials indicated he > was infuriated by the activities in Zambia < a country he had just visited > < of groups including Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/IMF_WB/PlunderHumanFace.html "From 1990 to 1993, Zambia spent $37 million for primary school education while giving 1.3 billion to international bankers. Annually, Ghana spends about $75 million on all social programs, less than 20 percent of its payments to foreign creditors. Uganda spends less than $1 per capita on primary health as opposed to $9 per person for debt repayment. These three countries (considered models by the World Bank for their diligence in carrying out austerity programs) sent $2.7 billion to international bankers in 1994."
> "They are using big-time, very well-organized propaganda the likes of > which I have never seen before" in 12 years of American-led famine-relief > efforts, said Mr. Natsios, who could not persuade the Zambians to accept > U.S. food aid.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/IMF_WB/PlunderHumanFace.html "While worsening poverty in the Third World with its extreme austerity measures, the World Bank has been loath to take its own medicine and has spent the money taken from necessary services in the South on luxuries for itself. The compensation for its president is $105,000 a year while the senior 74 officers receive more than $120,000. Employees have access to a free health club and complimentary vacation travel. Michael Irwin, a former personnel manager, described Bank employees as "living and working comfortably in the Washington area, and venturing forth in luxury...out of touch with both the realities and causes of poverty in the Third World. "
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/IMF_WB/PlunderHumanFace.html "The World Bank is currently renovating its headquarters for $314 million-more than $100 million above the original estimate. About $300 million of this comes from the $2.7 billion loan repayment of Uganda, Ghana, and Zambia in 1994. The remodeling includes the insertion of gold leaf on ceilings at an estimated cost of $1 million. Also being used is anegre, a very expensive wood from Africa. The wood took four years to collect and the company carrying out the work was paid more than $1 million."
> "The Bush administration is not going to sit there and let these groups > kill millions of poor people in southern Africa through their ideological > campaign," Mr. Natsios said
> > > Calling the GM seed companies "evil chicken littles' does nothing for > your > > > arugments.
> > You liar. I was talking about Zambia you evil lying troll, this is not > > over until you admit you are a liar.
> > The contention is NOT over.
> You are referring to those who are 'killing starving africans"
> Obviously that refers to those who both provide food unfit for consumption > and at the same time try to overcharge for it, while holding the poor > countries at hostage.
> As there is no other contender for your "evil chicken littles" I made a > logical conclusion.
<istj...@spamcop.net> wrote: > "Winston Smith" <wsm...@minitrue.oceana.gov> wrote in message > news:179A31BAF9AD8A45.A46DD697D25FB2C0.F1A9880E3662A9FF@lp.airnews.net... > > In article <3d711...@audacity.velocet.net>, comrade "Ian St. John" > > <istj...@spamcop.net> lies and obfuscation: > <snip> > > > > Anyway as of today Zambia is still the country who will not > > > > accept the food. YOU said they did.
> > > Actually, the final decision was announnced late on the Friday, the > 16th, > > > http://ens-news.com/ens/aug2002/2002-08-19-05.asp but not reported until > > > Monday the 20th. It is *possible* that your reference from the 17th was > a > > > report on this, but since it said nothing about this being a new change, > or > > > of the decisions to buy local grain, it is impossible to determine if > this > > > referred to the initial refusal or the later refusal. I said it did > based on > > > the fact that all my searches came up with the fact that after the early > > > refusal, Zambia accepted the grain, and I did not see the later > reversal.
> > > Not that this makes your statement any more true, since you also tied > the > > > refusal to Zimbabwe stealing the grain, which I knew to be false both in > > > terms of refusal and in terms of theft, as well as in terms of calling > them > > > communists.
> > > I will admit to an error in not finding the reference to the later > refusal, > > > but this is a drop in the bucket compared to your continual and > incessant > > > errors.
> > I was willing to admit error on this when you said I was wrong, because > > its pretty black and white, whether Zambia accepts US GM corn or not, but > > you have been engaged in obfuscation since it became obvious YOU were the > > one in error. When you start claiming I said things I didn't say, that > > transcends being wrong to lying and covering up the truth.
> > The contention is over.
> You are still delusional. You are like the man who complains about the spec > in anothers eye while ignoring the beam in his own.
Zambia still will not accept our food aid. That is not delusional. You greenies convinced the Zambian leadershit that starvation is better than eating GM food. MORONS!
>> > > > > >> Gripped by severe food shortages, with a potentially vast famine >> > > > > looming, >> > > > > >> the Zimbabwean authorities have rejected a US government donation >> > > > > of 10,000 >> > > > > >> tonnes of maize, worth $6m, because it has not been certified as >> > > > > free from >> > > > > >> genetic modification.
>> > > > > >> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/ >> > > > > >> Angola: nominally a multiparty democracy >> > > > > >> Zambia: Republic;president elected by popular vote for >> a >> > > > > >> five-year term >> > > > > >> Zimbabwe: parliamentary democracy >> > > > > >> Mozambique: republic;president elected by popular vote for a >> > > > > five-year >> > > > > >> term >> > > > > >> Malawi: multiparty democracy >> > > > > >> Lesotho: parliamentary constitutional monarchy >> > > > > >> Swaziland: monarchy; independent member of Commonwealth
>> > > > > >> Funny... Not a socialist in the bunch....
>> > > > > >More leftist lies.
>> > > > > The CIA is socialist?
>> > > > CIA is WRONG.
>> > > Then please tell them so. I'm sure it will come as a surprise to them >> but at >> > > least we will likely never hear from you again....
>> > Bwahaha, listened to too many "Death Squad" tales, comrade?
>> No. Just figured they'd lock you up and throw away the key. Wouldn't be the >> first time...
>> OK I guess I'm not fooling you. Your posts are so pathetic and stupid that >> they undoubtably will not take you seriously enough.
>> > > > When reading the news about the DR Congo you can't tell who >> > > > are the Communists because of the PC media.
>> > > Oh, I see. They are only claimed to be market economies and you know >> this >> > > because the voices in your head keep you from listening to the lies of >> the >> > > government, media, scientists, statesmen, leaders, etc.
>> > > And here I thought it was just an empty echo...
>> > Government isn't the solution, its the problem... >> > --Reagan
>> Reagan wasn't the solution, he was the problem...
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/famine/story/0,12128,737470,00.html > >> > > > > >> Gripped by severe food shortages, with a potentially > vast famine > >> > > > > looming, > >> > > > > >> the Zimbabwean authorities have rejected a US government > donation > >> > > > > of 10,000 > >> > > > > >> tonnes of maize, worth $6m, because it has not been > certified as > >> > > > > free from > >> > > > > >> genetic modification.
> >> > > > > >> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/ > >> > > > > >> Angola: nominally a multiparty democracy > >> > > > > >> Zambia: Republic;president elected by popular > vote for > >> a > >> > > > > >> five-year term > >> > > > > >> Zimbabwe: parliamentary democracy > >> > > > > >> Mozambique: republic;president elected by popular vote > for a > >> > > > > five-year > >> > > > > >> term > >> > > > > >> Malawi: multiparty democracy > >> > > > > >> Lesotho: parliamentary constitutional monarchy > >> > > > > >> Swaziland: monarchy; independent member of > Commonwealth
> >> > > > > >> Funny... Not a socialist in the bunch....
> >> > > > > >More leftist lies.
> >> > > > > The CIA is socialist?
> >> > > > CIA is WRONG.
> >> > > Then please tell them so. I'm sure it will come as a surprise > to them > >> but at > >> > > least we will likely never hear from you again....
> >> > Bwahaha, listened to too many "Death Squad" tales, comrade?
> >> No. Just figured they'd lock you up and throw away the key. > Wouldn't be the > >> first time...
> >> OK I guess I'm not fooling you. Your posts are so pathetic and > stupid that > >> they undoubtably will not take you seriously enough.
> >> > > > When reading the news about the DR Congo you can't tell who > >> > > > are the Communists because of the PC media.
> >> > > Oh, I see. They are only claimed to be market economies and you > know > >> this > >> > > because the voices in your head keep you from listening to the > lies of > >> the > >> > > government, media, scientists, statesmen, leaders, etc.
> >> > > And here I thought it was just an empty echo...
> >> > Government isn't the solution, its the problem... > >> > --Reagan
> >> Reagan wasn't the solution, he was the problem...
> In article <akvt00$24p...@puck.cc.emory.edu>, lpar...@NOSPAM.emory.edu > (Lloyd Parker) wrote: <snip>
> > >> > Government isn't the solution, its the problem... > > >> > --Reagan
> > >> Reagan wasn't the solution, he was the problem...
> > >> Ditto and doubled for any of his quotes.
> > >Reagan needs to be on Mt Rushmore.
> Reagan needs to be on Mt Rushmore.
You said that before and it still isn't true. He claimed to be not only 'part of the problem' but the *primary cause* as head of the problem generating machinery...
We tend to idolize people who at least attempt to fight the good fight, not those who add to the problems. By his own claims he is barred from any place of honor.
> > > > Calling the GM seed companies "evil chicken littles' does nothing for > > your > > > > arugments.
> > > You liar. I was talking about Zambia you evil lying troll, this is not > > > over until you admit you are a liar.
> > > The contention is NOT over.
> > You are referring to those who are 'killing starving africans"
> > Obviously that refers to those who both provide food unfit for consumption > > and at the same time try to overcharge for it, while holding the poor > > countries at hostage.
> > As there is no other contender for your "evil chicken littles" I made a > > logical conclusion.
> Bwhahaha, I'll eat the corn dipshit.
Go ahead. "Fit for human consumption" isn't required in your case. You aren't on a subsistence diet, are you? And I'm sure that paying even $10.00/lb for the 'priviledge' of eating cattle feed would not be too much for you.
I have concern only for the poor and starving Africans. *You* can take your own chances.
> > You are still delusional. You are like the man who complains about the spec > > in anothers eye while ignoring the beam in his own.
> Zambia still will not accept our food aid. That is not delusional.
Zambia will not BUY overpriced catttle feed for it's citizens!!! They already have debts to the World Bank of six times their GDP and can't afford to be extorted into big loans to buy overpriced and contaminated food.
Malawi wouldn't even be in a famine if the World Bank hadn't forced it to sell stored maize to make payments on it's debt!!!
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/isis25.htm "Malawi incidentally is faced with famine after it was forced to sell maize to earn dollars for debt servicing. Explains Ann Pettifor of the New Economics Foundation: Just three months before the food crisis hit, Malawi was encouraged by the World Bank "to keep foreign exchange instead of storing grain" Why? Because foreign exchange is needed to repay debts. Creditors will not accept debt repayments in Malawian Kwachas. Or indeed in bags of maize. Only "greenbacks" or other hard currencies will do." "One of Malawi's key commercial creditors needed to have their debt repaid, according to Malawi's president, who in a BBC interview said the government "had been forced (to sell maize) in order to repay commercial loans taken out to buy surplus maize in previous years". President Muluzi said the IMF and the World Bank "insisted that, since Malawi had a surplus and the (government's) National Food Reserve Agency had this huge loan, they had to sell the maize to repay the commercial banks." So Malawi duly sold 28,000 tonnes of maize to Kenya. Under pressure from her creditors, led by the World Bank and the IMF, Malawi exchanged maize-her people's staple diet-for dollars."
They are NOT stupid, you fucking moronic asshole. They could buy some of the wholesome Indian surplus that is going for a fraction of the cost.
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/isis25.htm "With 65 million tonnes foodgrains stockpiled in the open, and that too of non genetically modified grain, WFP will do well to purchase instead from India. With the grain from the reserves priced at Rs 4 to Rs 5 a kg (less than 10 American cents a kilo), the WFP will not find cheaper food available anywhere. But this will not happen, in other words will not be allowed to happen. After all, the impending famine in Africa opens up a new market to sustain the multi-billion dollar US biotechnology industry. What happens in the bargain to the resulting crisis in human health and misery, and environment contamination from GMOs is none of the concern of the American grain merchants. In fact, it never was. "
> You greenies convinced the Zambian leadershit that > starvation is better than eating GM food. MORONS!
Extortion and manipulation of the 'turd world' 'leadershit' by the forces of evil represented by the World Bank and GM seed suppliers will not happen, you incredibly stupid excuse for as anus. Sneer, rant and promote hatred if you want. You still have nothing to show that either greens are behind the decisions or that the 'food aid' is in any way a good deal, to be embraced.
Thanks, by the way. Your posts pushed me into finding more evidence of the TOTAL CRAP that is forming the basis of this extortionist plot to replace wholesome local produce with surplus contaminated grain as a 'deal you can't refuse' ( as the Mafia used to put it)..
> > > >> > Government isn't the solution, its the problem... > > > >> > --Reagan
> > > >> Reagan wasn't the solution, he was the problem...
> > > >> Ditto and doubled for any of his quotes.
> > > >Reagan needs to be on Mt Rushmore.
> > Reagan needs to be on Mt Rushmore.
> You said that before and it still isn't true. He claimed to be not only > 'part of the problem' but the *primary cause* as head of the problem > generating machinery...
> We tend to idolize people who at least attempt to fight the good fight, not > those who add to the problems. By his own claims he is barred from any place > of honor.
> Think of this as his legacy...
I'm glad we are not putting a penis on Mt Rushmore as Clintons legacy.
> > > > >> > Government isn't the solution, its the problem... > > > > >> > --Reagan
> > > > >> Reagan wasn't the solution, he was the problem...
> > > > >> Ditto and doubled for any of his quotes.
> > > > >Reagan needs to be on Mt Rushmore.
> > > Reagan needs to be on Mt Rushmore.
> > You said that before and it still isn't true. He claimed to be not only > > 'part of the problem' but the *primary cause* as head of the problem > > generating machinery...
> > We tend to idolize people who at least attempt to fight the good fight, not > > those who add to the problems. By his own claims he is barred from any place > > of honor.
> > Think of this as his legacy...
> I'm glad we are not putting a penis on Mt Rushmore as Clintons legacy.
Damn! Now you have said something I have to agree with.... no fair!
