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What if 9/11 was an INSIDE job?

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chud...@worldnet.att.net

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Dec 26, 2001, 6:50:34 AM12/26/01
to
What if you were a floundering President, and a story on your LOSS
in an election you claimed to have WON was tabbed for Sept. release?

What if your polls, the markets, economy and surpluses were crashing,
and there was "unfinished Islamic business" from your father's term?

What if the CIA was an ARM of your family and its global financial
interests in oil, drugs, weapons and construction? And Afghanistan
was a region where you and the CIA wanted to build an oil pipeline?

What if you took a "summer vacation" to be advised of a PLAN to
"right" your administration and its polls, such a "plan" to include
crashing a couple of jets into the WTC and Pentagon so that public
opinion would allow you to start a "war" in Afghanistan?

What if the "plan" included use of GPS control on the jets, with
both the jets and the WTC be very lightly occupied, because most WTC
workers would be asked to do "other things" that day, and the crashes
would be into lightly occupied upper floors so that loss of life would
be minimal, but the fireball spectacular?

What if you said "sound's good! - make sure I'm not around when
the hits come". But then, horror of horrors: THE UNEXPECTED HAPPENED,
and the "indestructable" WTC fell on hundreds of police / firemen!

What if you were advised to lay low as your handlers pondered the
next move in this calamity? With Afghanistan "designated enemy", you
talked WAR, and as the speeches came, your polls went to 90% approval!

Would YOU judge youself to be "luckiest man alive"?

Recent articles suggest the above "what if" has basis in FACT.
***************************************************************************
Time Magazine: http://www.time.com/time/poy2001/nwar.html says this:

"If others regarded Tenet as an unlikely choice to run the war on
al-Qaeda,
Bush didn't see it that way. He knew Tenet was obsessed with Osama bin
Laden
— "almost abnormally obsessed," says former Oklahoma Senator David
Boren,
Tenet's mentor. Most important, Bush knew Tenet had a plan. Over the
summer —
"when we were getting a lot of chatter in the system about potential
threats," National Security Council chief Condoleezza Rice recalled —
Bush
had ordered the CIA and the NSC to draw up a comprehensive proposal for
breaking al-Qaeda for good. "I feel like I'm swatting at flies," Bush
had
complained. "I want a way to take the network down." Tenet's team was
working
one up when al-Qaeda attacked.

Bush trusted Tenet, even liked him. The President matches his desire
for
loyalty with an unshakable faith in his ability to judge people
instantly —
to "look them in the eye," as he likes to say, and size them up.
Despite
being a Clinton appointee, Tenet had passed those tests months before.
Bush
made it clear early on that, unlike his predecessor, he expected to see
his
CIA director often. Tenet obliged, turning up at least twice a week for
the
President's morning intelligence briefing. He fed Bush the good stuff —
raw
human intelligence, along with plans for action — instead of meandering
analysis. "He wasn't puffed up or pompous," says Vice President Dick
Cheney.
"The President clearly likes that." It also helped the CIA director
that the
President's father, the only person in the world who had been both CIA
director and President, gave Tenet high marks."
*************************************************************************

What if in the aftermatch, the 9/11 death toll numbers dropped
drastically,
and almost all reported dead were fire fighters, police, plane
passengers?

What if Bush spokesmen like Limbaugh tried to blame "lack of asbestos
over steel" in the WTC as the cause of the unforseen collapse?
(pre-empt).

And what if you co-opted almost all the media, especially CNN, so
that
you would be judged as a "great leader", so your polls stayed at 85%
when
in fact you were responsible for the quickest downward shift EVER in the
USA's economy, budget, freedoms and sense of personal security?

I repeat: Would you consider yourself the LUCKIEST MAN ALIVE?

BUT: What if your luck doesn't hold out, and as 9/11's true facts
emerge
from conscience-stricken reporters, your phony "plan" is exposed?

Russell Ranshaw

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Dec 26, 2001, 8:00:58 AM12/26/01
to
>What if your luck doesn't hold out, and as 9/11's true facts
emerge from conscience-stricken reporters, your phony "plan" is exposed?<

There is a very serious problem with Bush being exposed. The American public
would be devastated, especially members of the armed forces, many of whom
would go nuts, there would be anarchy and lots of violence. Certainly the
economy would be devastated. The US might actually collapse.

Now, what would it take to make the masses believe your scenario is true?
First of all it is too complex for the masses to understand. Secondly, their
minds are already made up. Thirdly, they can't stomach the truth.

So while what you say is probably true it will not be recognized as such
until well into the future when we don't have to deal with the horror of it.

For now anyone who insists on the truth will be branded as a traitor.

Happy New Year,

Barb


Lopate

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Dec 26, 2001, 8:52:54 AM12/26/01
to
I can believe that Bush and his crew were planning something involving
Afghanistan and oil pipelines prior to 9/11. There is evidence to
support that theory. I also believe that it is possible Bush and crew
knew SOMETHING was up involving terrorists prior to 9/11 and that it
is well within the Bush camp's character to plan a war before it is
justified to increase his popularity numbers.

I DON'T believe Bush KNEW it would be on 9/11 and the WTC and I DON'T
believe he planned it. But it seem very likely he knew SOMETHING was
up and let it run it's course.

Let's just say that, like Pearl Harbor, he was willing to judge what
would be acceptable American loss of life to provide a reason to
invade Afghanistan and secure an oil pipeline. I CAN believe that.


chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote in message news:<3C29BA...@worldnet.att.net>...

> &#8212; "almost abnormally obsessed," says former Oklahoma Senator David


> Boren,
> Tenet's mentor. Most important, Bush knew Tenet had a plan. Over the

> summer &#8212;


> "when we were getting a lot of chatter in the system about potential

> threats," National Security Council chief Condoleezza Rice recalled &#8212;


> Bush
> had ordered the CIA and the NSC to draw up a comprehensive proposal for
> breaking al-Qaeda for good. "I feel like I'm swatting at flies," Bush
> had
> complained. "I want a way to take the network down." Tenet's team was
> working
> one up when al-Qaeda attacked.
>
> Bush trusted Tenet, even liked him. The President matches his desire
> for
> loyalty with an unshakable faith in his ability to judge people

> instantly &#8212;


> to "look them in the eye," as he likes to say, and size them up.
> Despite
> being a Clinton appointee, Tenet had passed those tests months before.
> Bush
> made it clear early on that, unlike his predecessor, he expected to see
> his
> CIA director often. Tenet obliged, turning up at least twice a week for
> the

> President's morning intelligence briefing. He fed Bush the good stuff &#8212;
> raw
> human intelligence, along with plans for action &#8212; instead of meandering

JRD

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Dec 26, 2001, 10:38:39 AM12/26/01
to
What if monkeys fly out of my butt?
What if the hoky poky is what it's all about?
what if those black helicopters are aliens?
What if liberals would quit making me hurl?
What if you start using your brain?
What if Bill Clinton was behind 9/11?
What if global warming isn't

Hit1Hard

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Dec 26, 2001, 2:55:08 PM12/26/01
to
On Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:00:58 -0500, Russell Ranshaw wrote:

>>What if your luck doesn't hold out, and as 9/11's true facts
> emerge from conscience-stricken reporters, your phony "plan" is
> exposed?
>
> There is a very serious problem with Bush being exposed. The American
> public would be devastated, especially members of the armed forces, many
> of whom would go nuts, there would be anarchy and lots of violence.
> Certainly the economy would be devastated. The US might actually
> collapse.

100 *Sparking* Bonus Points(Tm Samuzi)... For an original thought. ;).
WHO would benefit from that? Follow that train of thought and try to see
what the global outcome in the shift of powers/influenze would be.

As always, in a crime the question is who benefits by the crime..
Not interfering with the planing or execution of a crime can benefit as
much as actually performing it.
Hence the disturbing information of foreknowledge by the several
governmental offices.. (This doesn't have to mean that even the janitor
knew about them.. higher echelon is enough to divert of steer the lower
echelons in a different direction...)

> Now, what would it take to make the masses believe your scenario is
> true? First of all it is too complex for the masses to understand.
> Secondly, their minds are already made up. Thirdly, they can't stomach
> the truth.

Thruth can slam on one's nose with the power of a 2 by 4...
And the more one's nose hurts the more devastating the result.

>
> So while what you say is probably true it will not be recognized as such
> until well into the future when we don't have to deal with the horror of
> it.

Thats not completely true (imo). The horror can be in a form that is a
result of all the horror that is real now. (Digital Angel for example ,
in the perfect policestate...)
And remember.. Everything is surrounded by more and more secrecy.. (Even
longer then longterm.)

>
> For now anyone who insists on the truth will be branded as a traitor.

For that you have to be an American. Otherwise one's just a terrorist
supporter. (And where is the line between being "branded" as a traitor,
and being "on trail" as a traitor.)

>
> Happy New Year,

I'm pessimistic.. but if you insist..

>
> Barb

--
Hit1Hard.

If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y
is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut. --Albert Einstein

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Chris Morton

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Dec 26, 2001, 11:27:54 AM12/26/01
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In article <3C29BA...@worldnet.att.net>, chud...@worldnet.att.net says...

>
>What if you were a floundering President, and a story on your LOSS
>in an election you claimed to have WON was tabbed for Sept. release?

What if you stopped huffing industrial solvent?

Nah, never happen....


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.

Andrew Carol

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Dec 26, 2001, 12:17:47 PM12/26/01
to
In article <pan.2001.12.26.14....@IAE.nl>, Hit1Hard
<Hit.On...@IAE.nl> wrote:

> As always, in a crime the question is who benefits by the crime..

Who benefits?

Do you suppose if many independant groups have a "motive" to commit a
crime they all get together to see who would benefit most and they all
permit that one group to commit the crime?

It doesn't work that way. Assuming that the person who commits the
crime must be the one who would benefit most is simplistic.

--- Andy

Hit1Hard

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Dec 26, 2001, 4:07:04 PM12/26/01
to
On Wed, 26 Dec 2001 12:17:47 -0500, Andrew Carol wrote:

> In article <pan.2001.12.26.14....@IAE.nl>, Hit1Hard
> <Hit.On...@IAE.nl> wrote:
>
>> As always, in a crime the question is who benefits by the crime..
>
> Who benefits?
>
> Do you suppose if many independant groups have a "motive" to commit a
> crime they all get together to see who would benefit most and they all
> permit that one group to commit the crime?

Nah.. Thats not the way I see it possible to happen.. More like one (Or
more.) govenment information group<s> finds out about the possible actions
of another in the near future .. They can sabotage it, or let it happen..

If for example an agent of the FBI finds out and reports to his superiors
that something is about to happen, it doesn't have to be the same
department or agent of the FBI that will take the evasive action. (That is
a nice benefit of compartemized departments. There are only a few who
really have gods view about their actions, if they aren't secret of
course.)

The order to make/prepare an evasive action in order to do the job to
protect the people, would depend on the one's highest in hierachy/picking
order..

If they don't give the order.. nothing happens, resulting in a crime that
happens. And in that case someone else benefits by letting that crime
happen.. (and sometimes more then the perpetrator to start with!)

And in this case we're only trying to find evidence to bind OBL to the
crime..
Trying to find evidence tying other organisation to the crime are
preposterous. So is talking about conspiracies.

> It doesn't work that way. Assuming that the person who commits the
> crime must be the one who would benefit most is simplistic.

Your right..
Sometimes the arsenist only gets the benefits of the bonfire and the
jailtime.. The owner of the building gets the inssureance money for the
bankrupt business.. Now why exactly did the owner hire and fire without a reason
that felon (The arsenist.) a few months ago?

> --- Andy

As always.. A pleasure.

--
Hit1Hard.

All that we see or seem Is but a dream within a dream. --Edgar Allan Poe

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Sable

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Dec 26, 2001, 10:09:52 AM12/26/01
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Don't be naive about what a man who is willing to steal a presidency might
do to keep it.

Emmersom Bigguns

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Dec 26, 2001, 1:50:59 PM12/26/01
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You fucking people are nuts.

EB


Hit1Hard

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Dec 26, 2001, 5:20:18 PM12/26/01
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On Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:50:59 -0500, Emmersom Bigguns wrote:

> You fucking people are nuts.
>
> EB
>
>

"Any person, who has made observations on the state and progress of the
human mind, by observing his own, can not but have observed, that there
are two distinct classes of what are called Thoughts; those that we
produce in ourselves by reflection and the act of thinking, and those
that bolt into the mind of their own accord. I have always made it a rule
to treat those voluntary visitors with civility, taking care to examine,
as well as I was able, if they were worth entertaining; and it is from
them I have acquired almost all the knowledge that I have. As to the
learning that any person gains from school education, it serves only,
like a small capital, to put him in the way of beginning learning for
himself afterwards. Every person of learning is finally his own teacher;
the reason of which is, that principles, being of a distinct quality to
circumstances, cannot be impressed upon the memory; their place of mental
residence is the understanding, and they are never so lasting as when
they begin by conception."

Thomas Paine, Age of Reason.

Now, Emmerson..

If it was reflection that made you boldly post your reply.. Could you
share your basis for the "nuts"? Since the "bolt" reply only can mean fear
from your side...

--
Hit1Hard.

To be able to practice five things everywhere under heaven constitutes
perfect virtue...gravity,genorisity of soul,sincerity,earnestness,and
kindness --Confucius

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News From Reality

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Dec 26, 2001, 2:02:30 PM12/26/01
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Makes perfect sense to me


--
http://www.hereinreality.com

News From Reality

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Dec 26, 2001, 2:06:43 PM12/26/01
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"Russell Ranshaw" <rran...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in

> There is a very serious problem with Bush being exposed. The American
public
> would be devastated, especially members of the armed forces, many of
whom
> would go nuts, there would be anarchy and lots of violence. Certainly
the
> economy would be devastated. The US might actually collapse.

This kind of thinking is what is keeping people from demanding the
truth. In reality, if this were exposed the evil-doers would be ousted
from office and duly imprisoned, and America would go back to being the
America we have always loved, sans much of the corruption and greed that
has caused us so much tragedy. We must not let fear of chaos keep us
from bringing the evildoers to justice.

--
http://www.hereinreality.com

Bill Bonde

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Dec 26, 2001, 2:55:33 PM12/26/01
to

Hit1Hard wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:50:59 -0500, Emmersom Bigguns wrote:
>
> > You fucking people are nuts.
> >
> > EB
> >
> >
> "Any person, who has made observations on the state and progress of the
> human mind, by observing his own, can not but have observed, that there
> are two distinct classes of what are called Thoughts; those that we
> produce in ourselves by reflection and the act of thinking, and those
> that bolt into the mind of their own accord. I have always made it a rule
> to treat those voluntary visitors with civility, taking care to examine,
> as well as I was able, if they were worth entertaining; and it is from
> them I have acquired almost all the knowledge that I have. As to the
> learning that any person gains from school education, it serves only,
> like a small capital, to put him in the way of beginning learning for
> himself afterwards. Every person of learning is finally his own teacher;
> the reason of which is, that principles, being of a distinct quality to
> circumstances, cannot be impressed upon the memory; their place of mental
> residence is the understanding, and they are never so lasting as when
> they begin by conception."
>
> Thomas Paine, Age of Reason.
>
> Now, Emmerson..
>
> If it was reflection that made you boldly post your reply.. Could you
> share your basis for the "nuts"? Since the "bolt" reply only can mean fear
> from your side...
>

What sort of reflection would be needed to conclude that people who
claim that the US did 9/11 to itself as an inside job are nuts? The GPS
guided planes idea has several extreme logical holes in it.

Chris Morton

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Dec 26, 2001, 2:47:12 PM12/26/01
to
In article <3C29E840...@hotmail.com>, Sable says...

>
>Don't be naive about what a man who is willing to steal a presidency might
>do to keep it.

Don't be naive about what hate filled kooks disappointed about a crushing
election loss might be willing to say to reverse it.

Sable

unread,
Dec 26, 2001, 12:14:44 PM12/26/01
to
Crushing? You got to be kidding? Bush thinks this war is going to help him stay
elected, he's destroyed the economy and that is what Americans really care about.
Find this out big time soon 2002.

Chris Morton

unread,
Dec 26, 2001, 2:50:12 PM12/26/01
to
In article <4223f7f1.01122...@posting.google.com>,
brandon...@yahoo.com says...

>
>I can believe that Bush and his crew were planning something involving
>Afghanistan and oil pipelines prior to 9/11. There is evidence to

You left out the Jews, the Martians and the napkin makers.

"Don't listen to him, he makes napkins!"

Hit1Hard

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Dec 26, 2001, 6:42:22 PM12/26/01
to

Oh. Behold.. I would never.. Assume or claim that the american people as a
people did this to themselves.. I have to much trust in the (If you allow
me to generalize.) common american or better Joe Sixpack of ANY population
of any country of this world. They have no reason to do so and nothing to
gain from it, and they would all (and do!) identify with the victims..
Hence the justified outrage and support of the american public OR global
public for the victims...

Now.. for the trustworthyness of the so proclaimed leaders.. The ballgame
becomes different and with a complete new set of rules to obey...

And for logical holes in the GPS guided planes... If an organisation, with
the newest and problably most secret and expensive technology on Earth wouldn't be able
to pull a trick like that.. I would be very supprised... I think I would
be just as supprised as OBL produced and published a home video tape with
the Leaders of the "free" managed world having coffee in some
"undisclosed" location and discussing how they pulled this one of and
having that idiotic "raghead" (that in his ignorance of what he was up
against.) declared war on America pull the train of blame.

There are just to much coincedences, to many who benefit (Directly or
indirectly), to just look in one direction (That the ones mentioned
before point in.) and drop everything else on command of authority.
But then again.. Most good police stories start that way...

--
Hit1Hard.

A man is ethical only when life, as such, is sacred to him, that of
plants and animals, as that of his fellow men, and when he devotes
himself to all life that is in need of help. --Albert Schweitzer

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Larry W. Jewell

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Dec 26, 2001, 3:42:26 PM12/26/01
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brandon...@yahoo.com (Lopate) wrote in message news:<4223f7f1.01122...@posting.google.com>...

> Let's just say that, like Pearl Harbor, he was willing to judge what
> would be acceptable American loss of life to provide a reason to
> invade Afghanistan and secure an oil pipeline. I CAN believe that.

Lot's of fruitcakes think FDR "just let it happen" at Pearl Harbor.
Are those same nuts now looking for something stupid to say about
9/11? You bet they are.

Say Hi to Elvis for me.

Larry J

JRD

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Dec 26, 2001, 4:50:55 PM12/26/01
to
You are absolutely correct, I am so glad Al gore didn't get away with stealing
it.

Sable

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Dec 26, 2001, 2:07:21 PM12/26/01
to
Cheeky, baby. But Al Gore won that election. Alcohol guzzling Bush Jr. stole
that election with the help of the rotting scum on the supreme court.

Bill Bonde

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Dec 26, 2001, 5:25:55 PM12/26/01
to

> And for logical holes in the GPS guided planes... cIf an organisation, with


> the newest and problably most secret and expensive technology on Earth wouldn't be able
> to pull a trick like that.. I would be very supprised...
>

Barbara Olsen died in one of the air crashes. She was talking from the
plane to people on he ground. How does this work if it was a setup with
GPS flown planes? Did she agree to be killed? Is she in the 'witness
protection program'?


> I think I would
> be just as supprised as OBL produced and published a home video tape with
> the Leaders of the "free" managed world having coffee in some
> "undisclosed" location and discussing how they pulled this one of and
> having that idiotic "raghead" (that in his ignorance of what he was up
> against.) declared war on America pull the train of blame.
>
> There are just to much coincedences, to many who benefit (Directly or
> indirectly), to just look in one direction (That the ones mentioned
> before point in.) and drop everything else on command of authority.
> But then again.. Most good police stories start that way...
>

You are nuts, you know.

JRD

unread,
Dec 26, 2001, 6:01:47 PM12/26/01
to
Al Gore tried to steal it, USSC stopped him from doing so

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 26, 2001, 7:07:50 PM12/26/01
to
Please state ONE (at the most TWO) of the "logical holes".

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 26, 2001, 7:16:20 PM12/26/01
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Olson UNDOUBTEDLY is alive and well, sporting a new nose job,
face lift, and new teeth (implants).

The oldest trick in the book is to have one of your own play
possum. "It COULDN'T be US! My boy friend died in the crash"!

Hit1Hard

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Dec 26, 2001, 10:37:23 PM12/26/01
to

Did she have an terminal cancer in the endphase?
I don't know.. I was only talking about the technical posibility.
And further more.. If.. (And only _IF_ ) it was an "inside" job, and
those "insiders" didn't care to destroy so much property nor respect
human life.. do you think the presence of Barbara Olson would have made
any difference?

>> I think I would
>> be just as supprised as OBL produced and published a home video tape
>> with the Leaders of the "free" managed world having coffee in some
>> "undisclosed" location and discussing how they pulled this one of and
>> having that idiotic "raghead" (that in his ignorance of what he was up
>> against.) declared war on America pull the train of blame.
>>
>> There are just to much coincedences, to many who benefit (Directly or
>> indirectly), to just look in one direction (That the ones mentioned
>> before point in.) and drop everything else on command of authority. But
>> then again.. Most good police stories start that way...
>>
> You are nuts, you know.

I wish I was, then all would make perfect sense.

--
Hit1Hard.

Life is simply a collection of memories, but memories are like star
light... They live on Forever. --C. W. McCall

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Nap

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Dec 26, 2001, 8:06:05 PM12/26/01
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<chud...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3C29BA...@worldnet.att.net...
> What if you were a floundering President, and a story on your LOSS
> in an election you claimed to have WON was tabbed for Sept. release?

What if a irrational nutcase with an unhealthy, burning, vile hate of the
President
got internet access?

I think the result would be ... your posts!


Emmersom Bigguns

unread,
Dec 26, 2001, 10:37:09 PM12/26/01
to
It was not a knee-jerk reaction that caused me to state that these fucking
people are nuts.
It's from reading the stupid shit that they write, that draws me to that
conclusion.

And after the additional posts to this thread and the many others I have
changed my original position, these fucking people are fucking nuts.

EB

"Hit1Hard" <Hit.On...@IAE.nl> wrote in message
news:pan.2001.12.26.17....@IAE.nl...

freedomfighter

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Dec 26, 2001, 10:45:01 PM12/26/01
to
thank you!~


"News From Reality" <comm...@hereinreality.com> wrote in message
news:7dpW7.192088$kf1.58...@news1.rdc1.ne.home.com...

Michael Ejercito

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 1:08:42 AM12/27/01
to
Chris Morton <cmo...@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<a0d9l...@drn.newsguy.com>...

> In article <4223f7f1.01122...@posting.google.com>,
> brandon...@yahoo.com says...
> >
> >I can believe that Bush and his crew were planning something involving
> >Afghanistan and oil pipelines prior to 9/11. There is evidence to
>
> You left out the Jews, the Martians and the napkin makers.
>
> "Don't listen to him, he makes napkins!"
I think Secret Squirrel made a similar accusation.


Michael

Michael Ejercito

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 1:10:04 AM12/27/01
to
"News From Reality" <comm...@hereinreality.com> wrote in message news:<a9pW7.192087$kf1.58...@news1.rdc1.ne.home.com>...

> Makes perfect sense to me
If you were someone like Secret Squirrel or Alex Vange.


Michael

Michael Ejercito

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 1:11:38 AM12/27/01
to
"Russell Ranshaw" <rran...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message news:<eSjW7.13967$B47.6...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com>...
> >What if your luck doesn't hold out, and as 9/11's true facts
> emerge from conscience-stricken reporters, your phony "plan" is exposed?<

>
> There is a very serious problem with Bush being exposed. The American public
> would be devastated, especially members of the armed forces, many of whom
> would go nuts, there would be anarchy and lots of violence. Certainly the
> economy would be devastated. The US might actually collapse.
>
> Now, what would it take to make the masses believe your scenario is true?
> First of all it is too complex for the masses to understand. Secondly, their
> minds are already made up. Thirdly, they can't stomach the truth.
>
> So while what you say is probably true it will not be recognized as such
> until well into the future when we don't have to deal with the horror of it.
>
> For now anyone who insists on the truth will be branded as a traitor.
>
> Happy New Year,
>
> Barb
Secret Squirrel does not define the truth, Barb. Maybe you should
try reading when you are not high on crack.


Michael

Michael Ejercito

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 1:12:33 AM12/27/01
to
chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote in message news:<3C29BA...@worldnet.att.net>...
> What if you were a floundering President, and a story on your LOSS
> in an election you claimed to have WON was tabbed for Sept. release?
What if you stopped smoking crack and realize that Secret
Squirrel's rantings are lies?


Michael

Michael Ejercito

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 1:14:09 AM12/27/01
to
Sable <Sebl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3C29E840...@hotmail.com>...

> Don't be naive about what a man who is willing to steal a presidency might
> do to keep it.
>
Well, we know what lies people like you and Secret Squirrel, who
hate the President, are willing to tell.


Michael

Michael Ejercito

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 1:14:55 AM12/27/01
to
Chris Morton <cmo...@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<a0d9g...@drn.newsguy.com>...

> In article <3C29E840...@hotmail.com>, Sable says...
> >
> >Don't be naive about what a man who is willing to steal a presidency might
> >do to keep it.
>
> Don't be naive about what hate filled kooks disappointed about a crushing
> election loss might be willing to say to reverse it.
What happened to Secret Squirrel? He was the mot hate-filled of the
hate-filled kooks.


Michael

Nereid

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 1:18:07 AM12/27/01
to
This disaster did play marvelously into Dumbo's hand. It's suspicious.
"Michael Ejercito" <meje...@marvelonline.net> wrote in message
news:a5a297f2.0112...@posting.google.com...

Sumar Salt

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 2:17:58 AM12/27/01
to
For the record,

I believe it is _plausible_ (not necessarily factual, but plausible) that
the government knew something was going to happen, thought it would be on
the scale of the cole or the embassy bombings, and let it ride in the hopes
of finally being able to do what Clinton should have done during eight years
of terror.

In doing so, they may have underestimated what Atta's plan was. But in
retrospect it's probably better for the world that this is happening
anyway -- unless of course India nukes Pakistan.


Sumar Salt

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 2:24:17 AM12/27/01
to

"Larry W. Jewell" <larryw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f8f0a873.01122...@posting.google.com...

> brandon...@yahoo.com (Lopate) wrote in message
news:<4223f7f1.01122...@posting.google.com>...
> Lot's of fruitcakes think FDR "just let it happen" at Pearl Harbor.

If my memory serves me, I remember watching a NOVA in which they detailed
that a warning of the attack on Pearl Harbour was being relayed via Western
Union ships using flash-light morse code -- they didn't want to use radio
because it might have been intercepted. The warning arrived too late.

Anyone else know this?


Sumar Salt

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 2:25:11 AM12/27/01
to

"JRD" <"(no spam)indianajim"@starband.net> wrote in message
news:3C29EF0B...@starband.net...
> What if Bill Clinton was behind 9/11?

It's his stupid Arab policies that lead up to this. Imagine if he blew the
crap out of the Taliban after the Cole bombing.


Sumar Salt

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 2:21:10 AM12/27/01
to

"Lopate" <brandon...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4223f7f1.01122...@posting.google.com...

> Let's just say that, like Pearl Harbor, he was willing to judge what
> would be acceptable American loss of life to provide a reason to
> invade Afghanistan and secure an oil pipeline. I CAN believe that.

Secure an oil pipeline? We're not enemies with the USSR, we don't need to
go to war to prevent Russia from putting in a pipeline.


Larry W. Jewell

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 4:46:01 AM12/27/01
to
"Sumar Salt" <sall...@kivco.com> wrote in message news:<a0ehvm$oqb$1...@news1.mountaincable.net>...

So, Western Union has a string of ships in line of sight strung
between the US and Hawaii, 2280 miles? ROTFLMAO.

What happened was that the War Dept. found that its 10 Kw. transmitter
on the west coast could not punch through the atmospheric static. The
Navy had a 20 Kw, but RCA had a 40 Kw. They used the commercial
service as the strongest means available. If there had really been a
conspiracy they would have either never sent an alert or used the 10
Kw. as an excuse for delaying the alert. BTW, the alert was not a
warning of an impending attack on Pearl, nobody expected that.

Larry J

Larry W. Jewell

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 4:48:45 AM12/27/01
to
Where do these lunatics come from?

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 5:47:06 AM12/27/01
to

She's on the plane cell phoning to people telling them who hijacked the
plane. There were lots of people phoning. This would be tough to fake.


> >> I think I would
> >> be just as supprised as OBL produced and published a home video tape
> >> with the Leaders of the "free" managed world having coffee in some
> >> "undisclosed" location and discussing how they pulled this one of and
> >> having that idiotic "raghead" (that in his ignorance of what he was up
> >> against.) declared war on America pull the train of blame.
> >>
> >> There are just to much coincedences, to many who benefit (Directly or
> >> indirectly), to just look in one direction (That the ones mentioned
> >> before point in.) and drop everything else on command of authority. But
> >> then again.. Most good police stories start that way...
> >>
> > You are nuts, you know.
>
> I wish I was, then all would make perfect sense.
>

Bin Laden's boys took the planes and rammed them into the WTC. That's
what happened and it fits all the evidence.

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 5:48:18 AM12/27/01
to

chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> Please state ONE (at the most TWO) of the "logical holes".
>

Babs Olson being on the plane and phoning people saying who hijacked the
plane.

MrWelch

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 7:08:37 AM12/27/01
to
> What happened was that the War Dept. found that its 10 Kw. transmitter
> on the west coast could not punch through the atmospheric static. The
> Navy had a 20 Kw, but RCA had a 40 Kw. They used the commercial
> service as the strongest means available. If there had really been a
> conspiracy they would have either never sent an alert or used the 10
> Kw. as an excuse for delaying the alert. BTW, the alert was not a
> warning of an impending attack on Pearl, nobody expected that.
>
> Larry J

Funny thing, the way history keeps getting a re-write. Most people
still believe FDR provoked the Japanese and left Pearl a sitting duck so
as to bring the US into another foreign war with the backing of a united
America. If this is the way history has judged 1941, will the terrorist
attack be interpreted along the same lines?

JRD

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 7:08:24 AM12/27/01
to

"Larry W. Jewell" wrote:

> Where do these lunatics come from?

This is what happens when weak-minded people go to public schools
JRD

Mark Neglay

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 9:39:15 AM12/27/01
to
MrWelch <daun...@emailaccount.com> wrote in message news:<3C2B0F45...@emailaccount.com>...

> > What happened was that the War Dept. found that its 10 Kw. transmitter
> > on the west coast could not punch through the atmospheric static. The
> > Navy had a 20 Kw, but RCA had a 40 Kw. They used the commercial
> > service as the strongest means available. If there had really been a
> > conspiracy they would have either never sent an alert or used the 10
> > Kw. as an excuse for delaying the alert. BTW, the alert was not a
> > warning of an impending attack on Pearl, nobody expected that.
> >
> > Larry J
>
> Funny thing, the way history keeps getting a re-write. Most people

Most? You mean most whacko conspiracy theorists agree?

Michael Ejercito

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 11:17:55 AM12/27/01
to
"Nereid" <Ner...@neptune.com> wrote in message news:<z2zW7.2251$kK1.41429@rwcrnsc52>...

> This disaster did play marvelously into Dumbo's hand. It's suspicious.
There is nothing suspicious about Secret Squirrel's accusations,
though. He has been against Bush since day one.


Michael

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 11:15:08 AM12/27/01
to
Michael Ejercito wrote:

> What if you stopped smoking crack and realize that Secret
> Squirrel's rantings are lies?

Au contraire, Michael. Here is the premise - restated.

"What if you were a floundering President, and a story on your LOSS
in an election you claimed to have WON was tabbed for Sept. release?

What if your polls, the markets, economy and surpluses were crashing,
and there was "unfinished Islamic business" from your father's term?

What if the CIA was an ARM of your family and its global financial
interests in oil, drugs, weapons and construction? And Afghanistan
was a region where you and the CIA wanted to build an oil pipeline?

What if you took a "summer vacation" to be advised of a PLAN to
"right" your administration and its polls, such a "plan" to include
crashing a couple of jets into the WTC and Pentagon so that public
opinion would allow you to start a "war" in Afghanistan?

What if the "plan" included use of GPS control on the jets, with
both the jets and the WTC be very lightly occupied, because most WTC
workers would be asked to do "other things" that day, and the crashes
would be into lightly occupied upper floors so that loss of life would
be minimal, but the fireball spectacular?

What if you said "sound's good! - make sure I'm not around when
the hits come". But then, horror of horrors: THE UNEXPECTED HAPPENED,
and the "indestructable" WTC fell on hundreds of police / firemen!

What if you were advised to lay low as your handlers pondered the
next move in this calamity? With Afghanistan "designated enemy", you
talked WAR, and as the speeches came, your polls went to 90% approval!

Would YOU judge youself to be "luckiest man alive"?

Recent articles suggest the above "what if" has basis in FACT.
***********************************************************************
Time Magazine: http://www.time.com/time/poy2001/nwar.html says this:

"If others regarded Tenet as an unlikely choice to run the war on
al-Qaeda, Bush didn't see it that way. He knew Tenet was obsessed with
Osama bin Laden — "almost abnormally obsessed," says former Oklahoma
Senator David Boren, Tenet's mentor. Most important, Bush knew Tenet had
a plan. Over the summer — "when we were getting a lot of chatter in the
system about potential threats," National Security Council chief
Condoleezza Rice recalled — Bush had ordered the CIA and the NSC to draw
up a comprehensive proposal for breaking al-Qaeda for good. "I feel like
I'm swatting at flies," Bush had complained. "I want a way to take the
network down." Tenet's team was working one up when al-Qaeda attacked.

Bush trusted Tenet, even liked him. The President matches his desire
for
loyalty with an unshakable faith in his ability to judge people
instantly—
to "look them in the eye," as he likes to say, and size them up.

Despite being Clinton's appointee, Tenet passed those tests months
before.
Bush made it clear early on that, unlike his predecessor, he expected to
see
his CIA director often. Tenet obliged, turning up at least twice a week
for
the President's morning intelligence briefing. He fed Bush the good
stuff —
raw human intelligence, along with plans for action — instead of
meandering
analysis. "He wasn't puffed up or pompous," says Vice President Dick
Cheney.
"The President clearly likes that."

It also helped the CIA director that the President's father, the only
person
who had ever been both CIA director and President, gave Tenet high
marks."
*************************************************************************

What if in the aftermatch, 9/11 death toll numbers dropped
drastically,
and almost all reported dead were fire fighters, police, plane
passengers?

What if Bush spokesmen like Limbaugh tried to blame "lack of asbestos
over steel" in the WTC as the cause of the unforseen collapse?
(a pre-emptive scenario to mitigate damage if the "plan" is exposed).

And what if you co-opted almost all the media, especially CNN, so
that you would be judged as a "great leader", so your polls stayed at
85%
when in fact you were responsible for the quickest downward shift EVER
in
the USA's economy, budget, freedoms and sense of personal security?

I repeat: Would you consider yourself the LUCKIEST MAN ALIVE?

BUT: What if your luck doesn't hold out, and as 9/11's true facts

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 11:25:57 AM12/27/01
to
Bill Bonde wrote:
>
> chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> >
> > Please state ONE (at the most TWO) of the "logical holes".
> >
> Babs Olson being on the plane and phoning people saying who hijacked the
> plane.
************************************************************************
Ted Olson - RIGHT WING CONSPIRATOR - "said" Barbara called him.
I imagine Ted could / would "say" ANYHING.

From the newpaper article of Sept 12:

"Her husband said she called him twice on a cell phone from American
Airlines Flight 77, which was en route from Washington Dulles
International
Airport to Los Angeles.

Ted Olson told CNN that his wife said all
passengers and flight personnel, including the
pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by
armed hijackers. The only weapons she
mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters. "

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 11:26:51 AM12/27/01
to
Yes, it will.

JRD

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 11:37:09 AM12/27/01
to

chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

What if Bill Clinton and the DNC came up with a plan to derail the Bush
administration and the economy? This plan would help improve the horrible
Clinton legacy and the chances of putting Hillary into the white house? What
if this plan would all but guarantee the democrats sweeping up congress in
2002? What if the underestimation of the current President and the American
people made this plan backfire?
What if?


SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 11:38:30 AM12/27/01
to
"Sumar Salt" revealed serious confusion with: >
> "Lopate" wrote: > >
>
> > Let's just say that, like Pearl Harbor, he was willing to judge what
> > would be acceptable American loss of life to provide a reason to
> > invade Afghanistan and secure an oil pipeline. I CAN believe that.
>
> Secure an oil pipeline? We're not enemies with the USSR, we don't need to
> go to war to prevent Russia from putting in a pipeline.

The USSR hasn't existed for ten years now, and it's Unocal and other
western oil companies who want to lay the pipeline through
Afghanistan. Colin Powell told other governments last summer that we
were planning an invasion of Afghanistan in October.

A War in the Planning for Four Years
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP111B.html

"Naturally, the common people don't want war. Voice or no voice, the
people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. All you
have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the
pacifists for lack of patriotism." - Hermann Goering

Hit1Hard

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 3:31:24 PM12/27/01
to

Agree. Doesn't nessecarely negate the previous stated.


>> >> I think I would
>> >> be just as supprised as OBL produced and published a home video tape
>> >> with the Leaders of the "free" managed world having coffee in some
>> >> "undisclosed" location and discussing how they pulled this one of
>> >> and having that idiotic "raghead" (that in his ignorance of what he
>> >> was up against.) declared war on America pull the train of blame.
>> >>
>> >> There are just to much coincedences, to many who benefit (Directly
>> >> or indirectly), to just look in one direction (That the ones
>> >> mentioned before point in.) and drop everything else on command of
>> >> authority. But then again.. Most good police stories start that
>> >> way...
>> >>
>> > You are nuts, you know.
>>
>> I wish I was, then all would make perfect sense.
>>
> Bin Laden's boys took the planes and rammed them into the WTC. That's
> what happened and it fits all the evidence.

So you saw the "original" evidence claimed to be enough to eventually put
?60? countries populations in danger eh? And that number is depending on
that nothing really dangerous is allowed to happen now!!!

Your part of the "incrowd", the so claimed "we" that are in the know
instead of having to trust (Blindly.) that the before mentioned "we" are
doing the right and just thing for everybody's instead of persueing<sp?>
"our" own interest?

And don't try to make any reference to the personal interests we "could"
have eh? Or talk about conspiracy's?

And guess what.. The "we" have declared to let all the evidence connecting
Bin Laden and Co. to the attack just a few hours later.. to be classified
information. How fucking convenient! At once in a few hours the secret
services had enough inspiration to fullfill its task as it SHOULD HAVE
DONE BEFORE THE ATTACK?

The evidence everyone saw was :

The planes slamming into the buildings.. From 4 different sides the
atrocity was programmed into the public mind until helplessness triggered
an anger to start a outcry for revenge unequalled in human history..
Imagine : Even the German Nazi's needed a few years to get the Germans to
hate the injustice after WW1 enough to agree and fullfill the dreams of
the founders of the then imagined "Fourth Reich". Enough to pay for it in
blood.. Their blood. And they payed in buckets....

The rest of the global public's "evidence" that supposed to be enough is
:

1)
In the form of believes planted by "former or retired authorities" <who
have (Theorethically!) the same knowledge as the media themselves based on
information unclassified by the Authorities of one side of this war.> If
these "Experts" know more.. They are authorised to "leak"! Since if they
know more they talk about classified information and could go to jail for
that.. Switch on your television man, and check how many messages claimed
to be news (Supposedly based on FACTS!) contain the words "Believe", "We
think", "It is assumed that"...

2}
Spread by one of the party's that have an interest in how the populations
of the world observe and think about this whole battle... And guess what..
OBL is talking Propaganda.. YEAH right, the good guys would never do that
eh? Dream on. Well at least in the west you get a good <soap> television
show for how your taxmoney is spend. For example a vid tape with all its
controversie (And plain lies!!!!) over its translations and their
accuracy..
There is a new tape comming.. Dual-thought this time :
Propaganda/Confession.. But its not allowed (In a time when someone with
more then 2 braincells can think of about a 100 ways to transmitt a
message to anywhere on this world) to see it completely or with voice
without having the "official" allowed thoughts accompanying it or beforehand..
Hence the programming of our viewers by the networks allready.


3)
After the events themselves the evidence contains a string of highly
unconventional lucky finds (passports!, Suicide notes, luggage that missed
the plane.), impossible
statements/actions (highly unconventional behavior for muslims to make it
possible to identify them on memory later, this inspite of all the
"training' to be invisible in the enviroment.) or governmental actions
beforehand. As : Relationship with Taliban, Oilpipeline negotiations that
stated that the Taliban had to be removed from afghanistan, The backing of
by the FBI on higher echelon orders
towards OBL investigations. The one moment supported opium trade by the
taliban, the other moment statements that the taliban did such a good job
in the drugs war..
Or even now in hindsight of the events : The new prime minister having
connections to the before mentioned oil industry that wanted that
pipeline. Or news that gets completely blocked.. Attempted bombing of US
senator, detained Israeli's cheering for the attack.. And the dissapearing
news about spyrings.

You state "That's what happened and it fits all the evidence." You should
have added : "that I and every other non thinkin moron accept to be enough
for the official claim and the results upto now."

Can you imagine that sometimes the police in an investigation could hand
to a judge 2 persons for the same crime that only could have been done by
1 of them.. This because both were independently mixed/connected to the
crime, and both had reasons enough to commit the crime. But for neither
person was enough evidence to exclude the other person.. Its upto an
independent judge to descide who is guilty.. NOT THE POLICE that
investigates to declare one person guilty and point all investigative
efforts in only direction getting that one person "framed", and skipping
the "inconveniant" evidence that not pleads that person free, but
incriminates the second person..

And don't get me stated on the "Antrax" scare.. How much pressure did
congress need to approve all those new laws (Allready prepared in
detail).. We should all be glad they witheld from declaring war.. Making
the Texas Executioner the most powerfull man that ever existed... And
guess what.. He doesn't care about justice.. Dead or Alive.. I don't
care.. WHAT MAKES THE SHRUB BETTER THEN OBL? His feeling or vieuw for
Justice?

My ass!

If this means I am nuts.. So be it..I am only a (see below).. You better be
afraid for the moment when the truth hits your freedombell that I am NOT.. And with
all the secrecy surround this "event" it is still possible.. and not with
a low probability.

--
Hit1Hard the only :
ShitheadFartheadPoopoobrainIdiotFundamentalisticMuslemChristianNeo-naziTrollNut,
FreakDoucheMonkeyDutchwimp got pissed. (Happens..).

Man's main task in life is to give birth to himself. --Erich Fromm Man
for Himself

<Spam Shredder Block>
king. One hour of work to get started and no mailing lists! This servic
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SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 12:48:49 PM12/27/01
to
"Sumar Salt" amazed us with: >
>
> For the record,
>
> I believe it is _plausible_ (not necessarily factual, but plausible) that
> the government knew something was going to happen, thought it would be on
> the scale of the cole or the embassy bombings, and let it ride in the hopes
> of finally being able to do what Clinton should have done during eight years
> of terror.

So you'd be willing to excuse Smirk for letting a few hundred
Americans be murdered? That's really bizarre. And as for "eight years
of terror," do you think terrorism is something new? Hell, the US has
been training and supporting terrorists for a lot longer than that.
You also seem to forget (or did you ever know?) that the US helped
create the Taliban and put them in power, and that Osama bin Laden was
a CIA asset during the Reagan/Bush years.
(I wouldn't be surprized if he's STILL a CIA asset) Are you also
unaware that "Bush 41" has been in business with the bin Ladens for
many, many years?

> In doing so, they may have underestimated what Atta's plan was.

How do you know it was Atta's plan? How do you know Atta was even on
one of the planes? Several of the hijackers identified by the FBI have
been proven to be alive and well, and one or two had died years
before. Truth is, we don't know who the hijackers were.

> But in retrospect it's probably better for the world that this is happening
> anyway -- unless of course India nukes Pakistan.

India's just following our example. As for anything about this being
"better for the world," your thinking is so dim and bizarre that it's
pretty much beyond words.

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 12:56:56 PM12/27/01
to
Larry W. Jewell asked: >

>
> Where do these lunatics come from?

You mean the lunatics who expect us to believe that the "Osama" in the
so-called "smoking gun tape" is the real bin Laden? Are those the
lunatics you're talking about?

Have a look. Real Osama on right... fake Osama on left... Smirk is one
big fucking liar.

http://www.rense.com/general18/wrong.htm

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 1:06:10 PM12/27/01
to
Michael Ejercito farted out: >
> Sable wrote: > >
> >
> > Don't be naive about what a man who is willing to steal a presidency might
> > do to keep it.
>
> Well, we know what lies people like you and Secret Squirrel, who
> hate the President, are willing to tell.

Are they willing to tell lies as big as this one?

http://www.rense.com/general18/wrong.htm

Sumar Salt

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 2:07:27 PM12/27/01
to

"SkullnBonz" <Skull...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:c814f244.01122...@posting.google.com...

> "Sumar Salt" revealed serious confusion with: >
> > "Lopate" wrote: > >
> >
> > > Let's just say that, like Pearl Harbor, he was willing to judge what
> > > would be acceptable American loss of life to provide a reason to
> > > invade Afghanistan and secure an oil pipeline. I CAN believe that.
> >
> > Secure an oil pipeline? We're not enemies with the USSR, we don't need
to
> > go to war to prevent Russia from putting in a pipeline.
>
> The USSR hasn't existed for ten years now,

Yes, that was my point. I'm not so sure that we really care about an oil
pipeline in aghanistan.


Larry W. Jewell

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 3:44:58 PM12/27/01
to
malco...@hotmail.com (Mark Neglay) wrote in message news:<b0097087.01122...@posting.google.com>...

> Most? You mean most whacko conspiracy theorists agree?

Please, don't call them "whacko conspiracy theorists". They should be
called "lying, fascist-loving, whacko conspiracy theorists". This can
be shorted to Kooky Konspiracy Klowns. Correct terminology is
important.

Larry J

Fifty1Ford

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 5:17:28 PM12/27/01
to
First.
Most of the stuff in this thread/group is crap.

But I'm getting sick of posts that add nothing other than:


> > Where do these lunatics come from?

Either actually disprove/argue the case or shut up.

> > Where do these lunatics come from?

Yea.. And the world if flat right?

My point is not to defend kooks...
It's just that simply calling them nuts only makes them think that they are
on the right track.

How many scientific or historical truths were denied for years, decades,
centuries simply because the knee-jerk reaction of other was "You are nuts!"

Round earth, earth revolves around the sun, the stars in the sky are other
suns, other planets exist out there (only just proved), etc.
All of the people who first proposed these things were not recognized by the
population until after their death.
Heck.. They were called insane, heretics, lying devil worshipers, etc, by
many.

Also, if you do believe that someone is wrong, how is posting:


> > Where do these lunatics come from?

going to sway anyone's opinion?
If you believe that you know the truth about an actual
statement/event/debate, share what you think, perhaps others will learn from
your thoughts...

> > Where do these lunatics come from?

There is nothing to learn from this statement other than to guess that you
do not have any actual augment, or basis for what YOU believe to be true,
and that is worse than being wrong IMHO.

Again, not saying that anything in this thread or whole board is true...

I'm just sick of the lack of actual debate here.
If you think someone is wrong.. Prove or debate your point.. Or shut up.


Fifty1Ford

"SkullnBonz" <Skull...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:c814f244.01122...@posting.google.com...

Larry W. Jewell

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 5:56:13 PM12/27/01
to
MrWelch <daun...@emailaccount.com> wrote in message news:<3C2B0F45...@emailaccount.com>...

> Most people still believe FDR provoked the Japanese and left Pearl a sitting duck so as to bring the US into another foreign war with the backing of a united America. If this is the way history has judged 1941, will the terrorist attack be interpreted along the same lines?

It's obvious you have no idea how history has judged anything. You're
probably very good at judging how raving lunatics judge things, but
not history.

FDR didn't need a Pearl Harbor to get the US behing a war against
fascism, we were already getting sick of the bastards.

Here's an excerpt from the Gallup site:

In October 1941, about two months before the Japanese attacked the
U.S. military in Hawaii, 64% of Americans said the United States
should take steps "now" to prevent Japan from becoming more powerful,
even if this action would mean risking a war with Japan, while just
25% were opposed. Even earlier, in October 1939, 62% of Americans said
the U.S. should do everything possible, except going to war, to help
England and France. But even this caveat was tempered by the
willingness of the American public, in a June 1941 poll, to have the
U.S. provide military escorts for ships carrying war materials to
Britain -- with 56% in favor and 35% opposed. Even more telling was
the widespread support of Americans for allowing the U.S. Navy to
shoot at German submarines and warships on sight, supported by a
margin of 62% to 28%. These latter two actions are clearly acts of
war, and had they been implemented would have drawn the United States
into war even earlier than it was.

So, you're wrong. Now have yourself a nice Drano malt to clear out
yours cobwebs.

Larry J

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 6:46:15 PM12/27/01
to

So where is the man's wife if not dead? Maybe he wanted her dead and
then just had her killed like Condit did to that intern and then made up
the stuff about her phone call. Maybe he knew ahead of time that this
was going to happen and got her on the plane to get rid of her. Maybe
that is what happened.


--
<Cut this AT&T, you bloody slags!>>>>>

Michael Ejercito

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 7:47:11 PM12/27/01
to
chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote in message news:<3C2B4A...@worldnet.att.net>...

> Michael Ejercito wrote:
>
> > What if you stopped smoking crack and realize that Secret
> > Squirrel's rantings are lies?
>
> Au contraire, Michael. Here is the premise - restated.
>
The premise looks like something Secret Squirrel would post.


Michael

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 8:20:54 PM12/27/01
to
"Sumar Salt" explained: >

>
> Yes, that was my point. I'm not so sure that we really care about an oil
> pipeline in aghanistan.

Yes, "we" care very much about getting an oil pipeline across
Afghanistan. It's one of the primary reasons for the phony "war on
terrorism."

TESTIMONY BY JOHN J. MARESCA VICE PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
UNOCAL CORPORATION TO HOUSE COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC FEBRUARY 12, 1998 WASHINGTON,
D.C.

Mr. Chairman, I am John Maresca, Vice President, International
Relations, of Unocal Corporation. Unocal is one of the world's leading
energy resource and project development companies. Our activities are
focused on three major regions -- Asia, Latin America and the U.S.
Gulf of Mexico. In Asia and the U.S. Gulf of Mexico, we are a major
oil and gas producer. I appreciate your invitation to speak here
today. I believe these hearings are important and timely, and I
congratulate you for focusing on Central Asia oil and gas reserves and
the role they play in shaping U.S. policy. Today we would like to
focus on three issues concerning this region, its resources and U.S.
policy: The need for multiple pipeline routes for Central Asian oil
and gas. The need for U.S. support for international and regional
efforts to achieve balanced and lasting political settlements within
Russia, other newly independent states and in Afghanistan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's the Oil, Stupid

Never mind the pundits, the root cause remains the same

by Johnny Angel
That may seem as obvious as the nose on our collective face, but it's
something no one wants to acknowledge. Especially given the ties
between the media and the oil companies: ABC is tied to Texaco, NBC
to British Petroleum, Time Warner to Mobil Oil, as revealed in the
marvelous media-watchdog flier Censored Alert in the summer of 2000.
And now the oil industry is entrenched as America's No. 1 player with
Bush and Cheney, two oil men (one failed, one successful) in command.
LA Weekly:
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/44/cover-angel.shtml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When it comes to campaign contributions, the Republican Party's ties
to the oil and gas industry have been well documented to say the
least. No longer is it a surprise to note that 78 cents out of every
dollar the industry has contributed to federal parties and candidates
over the last decade has gone to the GOP or that President Bush was
the No. 1 recipient of the industry's money during the last election.
But here's something you might not know: Bush, with more than $1.8
million in contributions, got more money from the industry during
1999-2000 than any other federal candidate over the last decade,
barely eclipsing two fellow Texans in the process. Sen. Phil Gramm (R)
is the No. 2 recipient of oil money since 1989, with $1.6 million from
industry PACs and individuals, while his oil patch colleague Sen. Kay
Bailey Hutchison (R) ranks second with $1.3 million. Texas-based
companies dominate the industry's giving. The most generous: the
Houston-based Enron, the industry's No. 1 contributor during 1999-2000
with more than $2.3 million in contributions, about $1 million more
than No. 2 ranked Exxon-Mobil.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pressreleases/energybriefing.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Previous to becoming Bush's top foreign policy advisor, Condolezza
Rice was on the board of directors of Exxon which named an oil tanker
after her. Dick Cheney, GW Bush and many of his top aides are also
heavily invested and involved in the oil industry.
http://baltech.org/lederman/9-11-unpopular.html#point8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whenever there is a political assassination or some other unusual
violent event, what is the key question the oil-soaked, spy-riddled
monopoly press ALWAYS fails to ask? WHO BENEFITS.
http://www.skolnicksreport.com/pkem.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"So who benefits? The answer is obvious and very disturbing. Everyone
in the oil business will benefit, especially the Bush family and their
business partners. Everyone in the defense industrial complex will
benefit. The United Nations will benefit. The State of Israel will
benefit bigtime. Tyranny in the name of security will benefit and rule
over the American People."
- William Cooper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUPPRESED DETAILS OF CRIMINAL INSIDER TRADING LEAD DIRECTLY INTO THE
CIA'S HIGHEST RANKS

by Michael C. Ruppert

October 9, 2001 - Although uniformly ignored by the mainstream U.S.
media, there is abundant and clear evidence that a number of
transactions in financial markets indicated specific (criminal)
foreknowledge of the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center
and the Pentagon. In the case of at least one of these trades -- which
has left a $2.5 million prize unclaimed -- the firm used to place the
put options on United Airlines stock was, until 1998, managed by the
man who is now in the number three Executive Director position at the
Central Intelligence Agency.
One wonders how much damning evidence is necessary to respond to what
is now irrefutable proof that CIA knew about the attacks and did not
stop them. Whatever our government is doing, whatever the CIA is
doing, it is clearly NOT in the interests of the American people,
especially those who died on September 11.
http://www.copvcia.com/stories/oct_2001/krongard.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tuesday, 18 September, 2001, 11:27 GMT 12:27 UK
US 'planned attack on Taleban'
By the BBC's George Arney

A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning
military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before
last week's attacks.

Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior
American officials in mid-July that military action against
Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Johnny Wizard

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 8:26:11 PM12/27/01
to
Bill Bonde <stderr_...@mail.com> wrote in message news:<3C2BB2C7...@mail.com>...

I think Ted Olson is important to what happened in the airliners. If
he dies suddenly for not speaking, that would weigh likely towards a
conspiracy. The longer he lives, the higher the chances of him being
convinced to stay with what he has stated. Lending credence to the
phone call. None of this really matters though, because bush and
rumsfeld are still guilty for mass murder. The tape for example is
hokey from the get go. It's reaks ubsurdity. I mean if Americans
could actually use their minds to think, what a wonderful world this
could be. Bin's position with Afghanistan, was that he wasn't involved
in the WTC, so even if he was secretly, he certainly wouldn't confess
to it publicly, while
thousands dropped dead by murder. He was willing, as too was the
Taliban, to surrender to American athorities by offering any evidence.
Then names nine? Ya, he's gonna name all that bush in his evilness of
deception requires. Never mind that, but even if it was true, bush and
rumfeld would still be guilty for mass murder, for they offered no
evidence, to a nation standing on Justice infinite. (Funny eh?) The
very principles of the American flag, on all of which it once flew
proud. Over 20.000 people, conservatively, have been murdered for no
crime, but struggling to survive. The Taliban
were the government of Afghanistan. Are you a man, for if you were in
Afghanistan you would be a member of the Taliban, in support of
protecting the community. No evidence was offered! Echem, rumsfeld is
a mass murdering sadist, worst than hitler in his demeaner, who wants
to execute people who he knows are innocent, which is why he won't
allow public discussions through our corporate control, nor judicial
criminal trials, because he and bush are guilty for treason against
every American soldier, duped or otherwise. He'd kill any unnkown for
cash as a terrorist. Not my opinion, fact! Hundreds of American
soldiers have died!! Go ahead, were waiting, and waiting for
you to wake up. Why not just murder more people in New York instead?
Echem, bush is the coward, nazi murderer, mute savage rat from
hell's sewer pit. He's the guy who ran quickly blaming
the good guys in a third world country without evidence, bombed
thousands of innocent people with no reason but to kill them, and
where CNN said, "Sure, Americans are proud to have good reason for
murdering innocent people, don't know it, but proud! Where's my flag?"
Why? Because bush had no evidence, nor was interested in finding the
true culprits of the WTC disaster, or too, arresting Bin, because he
couldn't as nazi fascist traitor. Also, if I knew that the
pictures on my site, particularly page four at the bottom, could be
used to feed the people of the world, don't ya think I would try?
Magically if I could? God, where are ya son?


Here is the original post regarding the Tribunals:
news:<f57653c0.01122...@posting.google.com>

And this one is a shortened version, three paragraphs with Jeff, on
the discussion so far with many military usenet sites on the charges
of treason against bush and rumsfeld regarding the Airliners,
news:<f57653c0.0112...@posting.google.com>

http://www.johnnywizard.hotvomit.com

http://www.globalresearch.ca
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
http://www.emperors-clothes.com


Johnny Wizard

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 9:27:33 PM12/27/01
to

He isn't the only one who phoned. There were many people. There would
have to be a conspiracy of hundreds of people just in the phone calls
and the loved ones.


> None of this really matters though, because bush and
> rumsfeld are still guilty for mass murder. The tape for example is
> hokey from the get go. It's reaks ubsurdity.
>

Which tape?

> I mean if Americans
> could actually use their minds to think, what a wonderful world this
> could be. Bin's position with Afghanistan, was that he wasn't involved
> in the WTC, so even if he was secretly, he certainly wouldn't confess
> to it publicly, while
> thousands dropped dead by murder. He was willing, as too was the
> Taliban, to surrender to American athorities by offering any evidence.
> Then names nine? Ya, he's gonna name all that bush in his evilness of
> deception requires.
>

Bin Laden should've figured a way to surrender publicly along with
thousands of his supporters. That would've created more problems for the
US then letting us kill them with bombs and head shots at a 1000 metres.

> Never mind that, but even if it was true, bush and
> rumfeld would still be guilty for mass murder, for they offered no
> evidence, to a nation standing on Justice infinite. (Funny eh?) The
> very principles of the American flag, on all of which it once flew
> proud. Over 20.000 people, conservatively, have been murdered for no
> crime, but struggling to survive.
>

No evidence? Didn't you read what Number Ten provided on their website?
And aren't you pleased that Afghanistan gets its first chance at peace
in 20 years?

> The Taliban
> were the government of Afghanistan. Are you a man, for if you were in
> Afghanistan you would be a member of the Taliban, in support of
> protecting the community. No evidence was offered! Echem, rumsfeld is
> a mass murdering sadist, worst than hitler in his demeaner, who wants
> to execute people who he knows are innocent, which is why he won't
> allow public discussions through our corporate control, nor judicial
> criminal trials, because he and bush are guilty for treason against
> every American soldier, duped or otherwise. He'd kill any unnkown for
> cash as a terrorist.
>

Geez, you really believe this stuff or are you trolling? Are you an
American? Are you a Muslim? Do you support the Taliban?

> Not my opinion, fact! Hundreds of American
> soldiers have died!!
>

Six or seven, I think it is, and that counts the helicopter crashes and
the drowning in the Gulf, oh, and the heavy machinery accident.

> Go ahead, were waiting, and waiting for
> you to wake up. Why not just murder more people in New York instead?
> Echem, bush is the coward, nazi murderer, mute savage rat from
> hell's sewer pit. He's the guy who ran quickly blaming
> the good guys in a third world country without evidence, bombed
> thousands of innocent people with no reason but to kill them, and
> where CNN said, "Sure, Americans are proud to have good reason for
> murdering innocent people, don't know it, but proud! Where's my flag?"
> Why? Because bush had no evidence, nor was interested in finding the
> true culprits of the WTC disaster, or too, arresting Bin, because he
> couldn't as nazi fascist traitor. Also, if I knew that the
> pictures on my site, particularly page four at the bottom, could be
> used to feed the people of the world, don't ya think I would try?
> Magically if I could? God, where are ya son?
>

I'm not really following your rant here. You want people to eat
pictures? Did you know that the US was the largest supplier of
humanitarian aid to Afghanistan before 9/11?

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 27, 2001, 11:49:32 PM12/27/01
to
Bill Bonde asked: >

> chudecek wrote: > >
>
> > Ted Olson - RIGHT WING CONSPIRATOR - "said" Barbara called him.
> > I imagine Ted could / would "say" ANYHING.
> >
> > From the newpaper article of Sept 12:
> >
> > "Her husband said she called him twice on a cell phone from American
> > Airlines Flight 77, which was en route from Washington Dulles
> > International
> > Airport to Los Angeles.
> >
> > Ted Olson told CNN that his wife said all
> > passengers and flight personnel, including the
> > pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by
> > armed hijackers. The only weapons she
> > mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters. "
>
> So where is the man's wife if not dead? Maybe he wanted her dead and
> then just had her killed like Condit did to that intern and then made up
> the stuff about her phone call. Maybe he knew ahead of time that this
> was going to happen and got her on the plane to get rid of her. Maybe
> that is what happened.

If I remember correctly, Olson booked the flight because she wanted to
surprize her husband on his birthday... something like that, anyway,
so he wasn't expecting her to be on a plane. I don't doubt that she's
dead - collateral damage, you could call it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce

By Stan Goff
(excerpts)

I have no idea why people aren't asking some very specific questions
about the actions of Bush and company on the day of the attacks.

Follow along:

Four planes get hijacked and deviate from their flight plans, all the
while on FAA radar. The planes are all hijacked between 7:45 and 8:10
AM Eastern Daylight Time.

Who is notified?

This is an event already that is unprecedented. But the President is
not notified and going to a Florida elementary school to hear children
read.

By around 8:15 AM, it should be very apparent that something is
terribly wrong. The President is glad-handing teachers.

By 8:45, when American Airlines Flight 11 crashes into the World Trade
Center, Bush is settling in with children for his photo ops at Booker
Elementary. Four planes have obviously been hijacked simultaneously,
an event never before seen in history, and one has just dived into the
worlds best know twin towers, and still no one notifies the nominal
Commander in Chief.

No one has apparently scrambled any Air Force interceptors either.

At 9:03, United Flight 175 crashes into the remaining World Trade
Center building. At 9:05, Andrew Card, the Presidential Chief of Staff
whispers to George W. Bush. Bush "briefly turns somber" according to
reporters.

Does he cancel the school visit and convene an emergency meeting? No.

He resumes listening to second graders read about a little girl's pet
fucking goat, and continues this banality even as American Airlines
Flight 77 conducts an unscheduled point turn over Ohio and heads in
the direction of Washington DC.

Has he instructed Chief of Staff Card to scramble the Air Force? No.

An excruciating 25 minutes later, he finally deigns to give a public
statement telling the United States what they already have figured
out; that there's been an attack by hijacked planes on the World Trade
Center.

There's a hijacked plane bee-lining to Washington, but has the Air
Force been scrambled to defend anything yet? No.

At 9:30, when he makes his announcement, American Flight 77 is still
ten minutes from its target, the Pentagon.

The Administration will later claim they had no way of knowing that
the Pentagon might be a target, and that they thought Flight 77 was
headed to the White House, but the fact is that the plane has already
flown South and past the White House no-fly zone, and is in fact
tearing through the sky at over 400 nauts.

At 9:35, this plane conducts another turn, 360 degrees over the
Pentagon, all the while being tracked by radar, and the Pentagon is
not evacuated, and there are still no fast-movers from the Air Force
in the sky over Alexandria and DC.

Now, the real kicker: A pilot they want us to believe was trained at a
Florida puddle-jumper school for Piper Cubs and Cessnas, conducts a
well-controlled downward spiral, descending the last 7,000 feet in
two-and-a-half minutes, brings the plane in so low and flat that it
clips the electrical wires across the street from the Pentagon, and
flies it with pinpoint accuracy into the side of this building at 460
nauts.

When the theory about learning to fly this well at the puddle-jumper
school began to lose ground, it was added that they received further
training on a flight simulator.

This is like saying you prepared your teenager for her first drive on
I-40 at rush hour by buying her a video driving game. It's horse shit!

There is a story being constructed about these events. My crystal ball
is not working today, so I can't say why.

But at the least, this so-called Commander-in-Chief and his staff that
we are all supposed to follow blindly into some ill-defined war on
terrorism is criminally negligent or unspeakably stupid. And at the
worst, if more is known or was known, and there is an effort to
conceal the facts, there is a criminal conspiracy going on.


Stan Goff Joined the U.S. Armed Forces in 1970 and Left in 1996

I'm a retired Special Forces Master Sergeant. That doesn't cut much
for those who will only accept the opinions of former officers on
military matters, since we enlisted swine are assumed to be incapable
of grasping the nuances of doctrine.

But I wasn't just in the army. I studied and taught military science
and doctrine. I was a tactics instructor at the Jungle Operations
Training Center in Panama, and I taught Military Science at West
Point. And contrary to the popular image of what Special Forces does,
SF's mission is to teach. We offer advice and assistance to foreign
forces. That's everything from teaching marksmanship to a private to
instructing a Battalion staff on how to coordinate effective air
operations with a sister service.

Based on that experience, and operations in eight designated conflict
areas from Vietnam to Haiti, I have to say that the story we hear on
the news and read in the newspapers is simply not believable. The most
cursory glance at the verifiable facts, before, during, and after
September 11th, does not support the official line or conform to the
current actions of the United States government.

The so-called evidence is a farce. The US presented Tony Blair's
puppet government with the evidence, and of the 70 so-called points of
evidence, only nine even referred to the attacks on the World Trade
Center, and those points were conjectural. This is a bullshit story
from beginning to end. Presented with the available facts, any 16-year
old with a liking for courtroom dramas could tear this story apart
like a two-dollar shirt. But our corporate press regurgitates it
uncritically. But then, as we should know by now, their role is to
legitimize.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUPPRESED DETAILS OF CRIMINAL INSIDER TRADING LEAD DIRECTLY INTO THE
CIA'S HIGHEST RANKS

by Michael C. Ruppert

October 9, 2001 - Although uniformly ignored by the mainstream U.S.
media, there is abundant and clear evidence that a number of
transactions in financial markets indicated specific (criminal)
foreknowledge of the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center
and the Pentagon. In the case of at least one of these trades -- which
has left a $2.5 million prize unclaimed -- the firm used to place the
put options on United Airlines stock was, until 1998, managed by the
man who is now in the number three Executive Director position at the
Central Intelligence Agency.
One wonders how much damning evidence is necessary to respond to what
is now irrefutable proof that CIA knew about the attacks and did not
stop them. Whatever our government is doing, whatever the CIA is
doing, it is clearly NOT in the interests of the American people,
especially those who died on September 11.

http://www.copvcia.com/stories/oct_2001/krongard.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A War in the Planning for Four Years
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP111B.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tuesday, 18 September, 2001, 11:27 GMT 12:27 UK
US 'planned attack on Taleban'
By the BBC's George Arney

A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning
military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before
last week's attacks.

Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior
American officials in mid-July that military action against
Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Naturally, the common people don't want war. Voice or no voice, the


people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. All you
have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the
pacifists for lack of patriotism." - Hermann Goering

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 12:16:08 AM12/28/01
to

SkullnBonz wrote:
>
> Bill Bonde asked: >
> > chudecek wrote: > >
> >
> > > Ted Olson - RIGHT WING CONSPIRATOR - "said" Barbara called him.
> > > I imagine Ted could / would "say" ANYHING.
> > >
> > > From the newpaper article of Sept 12:
> > >
> > > "Her husband said she called him twice on a cell phone from American
> > > Airlines Flight 77, which was en route from Washington Dulles
> > > International
> > > Airport to Los Angeles.
> > >
> > > Ted Olson told CNN that his wife said all
> > > passengers and flight personnel, including the
> > > pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by
> > > armed hijackers. The only weapons she
> > > mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters. "
> >
> > So where is the man's wife if not dead? Maybe he wanted her dead and
> > then just had her killed like Condit did to that intern and then made up
> > the stuff about her phone call. Maybe he knew ahead of time that this
> > was going to happen and got her on the plane to get rid of her. Maybe
> > that is what happened.
>
> If I remember correctly, Olson booked the flight because she wanted to
> surprize her husband on his birthday... something like that, anyway,
> so he wasn't expecting her to be on a plane. I don't doubt that she's
> dead - collateral damage, you could call it.
>

The trouble with that theory is that she called her husband and said
that her plane was hijacked by Arab type terrorists with boxcutters,
blah, blah, blah. She'd need to be on the plane to make that call and if
the planes weren't really taken over by Arab terrorists, why would she
make that call?

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 3:25:22 AM12/28/01
to
TED OLSON SAID she made the call. That does NOT mean she was on
the plane, or even made ANY call from ANYWHERE to ANYONE that day.

Ted Olson is a right wing LIAR, the tool of Scaife. Having Ted
"say" something is ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS!

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 7:01:51 AM12/28/01
to
Bill Bonde repeated the government line with: >

> SkullnBonz wrote: > >
>
> > If I remember correctly, Olson booked the flight because she wanted to
> > surprize her husband on his birthday... something like that, anyway,
> > so he wasn't expecting her to be on a plane. I don't doubt that she's
> > dead - collateral damage, you could call it.
>
> The trouble with that theory is that she called her husband and said
> that her plane was hijacked by Arab type terrorists with boxcutters,
> blah, blah, blah.

So we're told... Is there any proof of the call having been made? If
there is, where can we see it?

> She'd need to be on the plane to make that call and if the planes weren't
> really taken over by Arab terrorists, why would she make that call?

That's a totally disjointed (non)response to what I wrote. Did I say
she wasn't on a plane? No, I didn't, but why would she "need" to have
been on a plane to make a cellphone call? Allowing that she did call,
how would she know that the hijackers were Arabs, as opposed to say,
Israelis?

Were The 911 Hijackers Really Arabs? Maybe Not.
By Michael Collins Piper
Information Times.com
12-24-1

Were those hijackers really Arabs? Would Israeli agents carry out a
suicide mission that could cost American Jewish lives?

Consider these little-known facts . . .

In 1986, the New York-based leader of the terrorist Jewish Defense
League, Victor Vancier, gave a prophetic hint of what may have been
finally played out on Sept. 11, 2001:

"If you think the Shias in Lebanon are capable of fantastic acts of
suicidal terrorism, the Jewish underground will strike targets that
will make Americans gasp: 'How could Jews do such things?'"

According to Vancier, quoted by Robert I. Friedman in The Village
Voice on May 6, 1986, his allies were "desperate people" who "don't
care if they live or die."

Considering this warning it is entirely conceivable the "Middle
Eastern" men described by passengers on the airliners were not Arabs
at all.

Evidence to be explored suggests that instead, these hijackers could
well have been Israeli-sponsored fundamentalist Jewish fanatics
(posing as "bin Laden Arabs") hoping to instigate an all-out U.S. war
against the Arab world.

"Jewish suicide bombers? Impossible!" cry critics. However, the fact
is that there is a "suicide tradition" that is a much-revered part of
Jewish history--going back to the famous mass suicide at Masada by
Jewish zealots.

But in modern times, Israeli suicide missions have been undertaken. In
The Other Side of Deception, former [Israeli] Mossad officer Victor
Ostrovsky described one 1989 venture: the participants were "all
volunteers" advised that there was effectively "no possibility of
rescue should they be caught."

And what about the Arabic language heard on one airplane's black box?

Consider a formerly secret CIA assessment, Israel: Foreign
Intelligence and Security Services, dated March 1979, which reported
that it is a long-standing policy for Israeli intelligence to disguise
Jews as Arabs:

One of the established goals of the intelligence and security services
is that each officer be fluent in Arabic. A nine-month, intensive
Arabic-language course is given to students ...

As further training, these Mossad officers work in the
[Israeli-controlled Arab lands] for two years to sharpen their
language skills....

Many Israelis have come from Arab countries where they were born and
educated and appear more Arab than Israeli ...

By forging passports and identity documents of Arab and Western
countries and providing sound background legends and cover, Mossad has
successfully sent into Egypt and other Arab countries Israelis
disguised and documented as Arabs or citizens of European
countries.... These persons are also useful for their ability to pass
completely for a citizen of the nation in question. The Israeli talent
for counterfeiting or forging foreign passports and documents ably
supports the agent's authenticity.

Pulitzer Prize-winner Jack Anderson wrote on Sept. 17, 1972 that:

"Israeli agents--immigrants whose families had lived in Arab lands for
generations--have a perfect knowledge of Arab dialects and customs.
They have been able to infiltrate Arab governments with ease."

In fact, serious questions have been raised about the identities of
the Sept. 11 "Arab hijackers."

While the media reported the ringleader's passport conveniently landed
atop rubble eight blocks from "Ground Zero," The Orlando Sentinel also
reported that at least four men identified as hijackers are not dead
and had nothing to do with the attacks.

In The New Yorker on Oct. 8, Pulitzer Prize winner Seymour Hersh
pointed out:

"Many of the investigators believe that some of the initial clues
about the terrorists identities and preparations, such as flight
manuals, were meant to be found. A former high-level intelligence
official told me, 'Whatever trail was left was left deliberately--for
the FBI to chase.'"

Why Arabs would plant evidence implicating their own is a point
mainstream
media chooses not to address.

Nor has the media ever ballyhooed the "hero" who tipped off the FBI
where the hijackers' car (conveniently filled with "evidence") was
parked.

Did Ariel Sharon help orchestrate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks
to instigate all-out U.S. war against Israel's enemies?
Don't discount it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did Mossad Know? By David Graham Du Bois
Thursday, November 08, 2001

The reports emanating from the Middle East that some 1200 Israeli
citizens working at the World Trade Center failed to show up for work
on September 11 have been widely scoffed at. However, an early report
that U.S. officials would investigate the allegation has been followed
by stone silence. Any investigation should begin by checking the
roster of occupants of the WTC for Israeli residents. And, remember,
American Jews can become Israeli citizens and maintain their U.S.
citizenship.

Eighty-one countries are represented among the dead and missing in the
September 11 disaster. So far, not one Israeli citizen has been listed
among the victims. Is it possible that the complex of buildings
housing the global center of international business, banking and
commerce contained no Israeli citizens on September 11, on a working
day morning?
http://www.blackelectorate.com/articles.asp?ID=480
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Instant Messages To Israel Warned Of WTC Attack

By Brian McWilliams, Newsbytes
NEW YORK, NEW YORK, U.S.A.,
27 Sep 2001, 11:48 AM CST

Officials at instant-messaging firm Odigo confirmed today that two
employees received text messages warning of an attack on the World
Trade Center two hours before terrorists crashed planes into the New
York landmarks.

Citing a pending investigation by law enforcement, the company
declined to reveal the exact contents of the message or to identify
the sender.

But Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales and marketing, confirmed
that workers in Odigo's research and development and international
sales office in Israel received a warning from another Odigo user
approximately two hours prior to the first attack.

Diamandis said the sender of the instant message was not personally
known to the Odigo employees. Even though the company usually protects
the privacy of users, the employees recorded the Internet protocol
address of the message's sender to facilitate his or her
identification.

Soon after the terrorist attacks on New York, the Odigo employees
notified their management, who contacted Israeli security services. In
turn, the FBI was informed of the instant message warning. FBI
officials were not immediately available for comment today.
http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/170583.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FBI TURNING OVER STONES WITH ISRAELIS UNDERNEATH
By Scott DaVault

On November 10th, the New York Times reported that America was
cracking down on terrorism by toughening policies for immigration from
Arab countries, hinting that people entering from any of those
countries are suspect in our government's eyes. The full list is:
Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia,
Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Morocco, Oman,
Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey,
the United Arab Emirates and Yemen. Oddly, although sixty Israelis
have been taken into custody, it didn't make the list. Considering
that the U.S. has stated that we are not involved in a "holy war" it
is odd that we've been so lopsided with our immigration policy,
especially since at least sixty Israelis have been detained in
response to the September 11th attacks.

The Israeli's are not Arabs pretending to be Jewish, as multiple
stories have been printed in the Jerusalem Post demanding their
release. What is known, is that most of them are in their early
twenties, and fresh out of the Israeli military. Any speculation as to
their possible involvement with Israel's Mossad would be relatively
groundless, but the organizations they've been linked to in the U.S.
are notorious for being both clandestine and harmful to our citizens.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/qualitysales.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NewsMax.com

U.S. Police and Intelligence Hit by Spy Network
Charles R. Smith
Wednesday, Dec. 19, 2001

Spies Tap Police and Government Phones
In the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, the FBI has stumbled on
the largest espionage ring ever discovered inside the United States.
The U.S. Justice Department is now holding nearly 100 Israeli citizens
with direct ties to foreign military, criminal and intelligence
services.

The spy ring reportedly includes employees of two Israeli-owned
companies that currently perform almost all the official wiretaps for
U.S. local, state and federal law enforcement.

The U.S. law enforcement wiretaps, authorized by the Communications
Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), appear to have been
breached by organized crime units working inside Israel and the
Israeli intelligence service, Mossad.

Both Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller
were warned on Oct. 18 in a hand-delivered letter from local, state
and federal law enforcement officials. The warning stated, "Law
enforcement's current electronic surveillance capabilities are less
effective today than they were at the time CALEA was enacted."

The spy ring enabled criminals to use reverse wiretaps against U.S.
intelligence and law enforcement operations. The illegal monitoring
may have resulted in the deaths of several informants and reportedly
spoiled planned anti-drug raids on crime syndicates.

The penetration of the U.S. wiretap system has led to a giant spy hunt
across the globe by American intelligence agencies. U.S. intelligence
officials now suspect the spy ring shared and sold information to
other nations.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fox News Pulls Its Four-Part
Israeli US Phone Spying Series
Michael Rivero
riv...@whatreallyhappened.com
12-22-1

Fox News just yanked the four part story about the phone spying
scandal.

This has become absurd.

Here the FBI has just uncovered the largest spy ring ever discovered
in our country, and the government that owns and operates that spy
network is able to tell Fox News NOT to report the story?

Will someone explain to me what is going on when the nation that owns
the largest spy ring ever discovered inside the United States is, even
AFTER that spy ring is discovered and arrested, able to tell Fox News
what stories they can and cannot run?

We need to get this to as many people as possible. Clearly, the Mossad
has a huge network of people able to call and complain to Fox News to
remove the story. We must muster an even greater number of people to
call Fox News and DEMAND the full and complete story be put back on
the web site and on the air.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FOX NEWS ERASES NEWS STORY ABOUT ISRAELI PHONE SPYING FROM THEIR
WEBSITE.
Link to part 1 of the story now reads "This story no longer exists".
Please write Fox News at comm...@foxnews.com and demand the story be
reinstated.
I guess we now know the answer to the question, Is Israel blackmailing
the United States. I mean, here the FBI has uncovered and arrested the
largest single spy ring ever discovered inside the United States. And
yet the nation that owns and operates that spy ring is somehow STILL
able to order Fox News to kill an embarrassing story about that very
spy ring.
http://www.rense.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now You See It, Now You Don't
A Note to My Readers
by Justin Raimondo
http://www.antiwar.com/
December 22, 2001

For the past week or so, I have been writing about the ominous
implications of Carl Cameron's four-part Fox News exposé of Israeli
intelligence operations in the US. My most recent column on the
subject was posted today (December 21). Cameron's reports are, of
course, key to understanding the context of these columns: without
them, there is no way to understand either the context or the content
of what I have written. We provided links to these reports in the
column, and fully expected the links to remain valid, as Fox usually
keeps its stories up for a month or so. But not this time.

The news that Fox had pulled the Cameron reports from its website was,
to me, quite surprising. Now, it could be a technical glitch, a
mistake, or whatever: after all, one assumes the Fox News people want
visitors to their website, and the more the merrier, right?

Israel's amen corner in the US is vocal, well-organized, and not
averse to censorship when it advances their agenda, and so outside
pressure on Fox News to pull the series cannot be ruled out. As
disturbing as it is to contemplate, it seems that censorship is indeed
a strong possibility in this case, that is, Fox News is engaging in
self-censorship, for reasons of its own.

Our readers may wish to ask questions for themselves, or protest. They
can do so by writing foxnew...@foxnews.com or spe...@foxnews.com.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Benyamin Netanyahu, former Israeli prime minister, on being asked
what the attack means for relations between the US and Israel:
"It's very good."

http://www.counterpunch.org/aftershocks.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JRD

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 8:32:52 AM12/28/01
to
You democrack-heads are all fucked up, first you accuse Bush of being the
dumbest man on the planet, and now you accuse him of the most brilliant
diabolical plan and cover-up in this countries history. I know Elvis and Jim
Morrison planed it for him. You people need therapy, try Dr. Laura

chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

> ***************************************************************************


> Time Magazine: http://www.time.com/time/poy2001/nwar.html says this:
>
> "If others regarded Tenet as an unlikely choice to run the war on
> al-Qaeda,
> Bush didn't see it that way. He knew Tenet was obsessed with Osama bin
> Laden
> — "almost abnormally obsessed," says former Oklahoma Senator David
> Boren,
> Tenet's mentor. Most important, Bush knew Tenet had a plan. Over the
> summer —
> "when we were getting a lot of chatter in the system about potential
> threats," National Security Council chief Condoleezza Rice recalled —
> Bush
> had ordered the CIA and the NSC to draw up a comprehensive proposal for
> breaking al-Qaeda for good. "I feel like I'm swatting at flies," Bush
> had
> complained. "I want a way to take the network down." Tenet's team was
> working
> one up when al-Qaeda attacked.
>
> Bush trusted Tenet, even liked him. The President matches his desire
> for
> loyalty with an unshakable faith in his ability to judge people
> instantly —
> to "look them in the eye," as he likes to say, and size them up.
> Despite

> being a Clinton appointee, Tenet had passed those tests months before.


> Bush
> made it clear early on that, unlike his predecessor, he expected to see
> his
> CIA director often. Tenet obliged, turning up at least twice a week for
> the
> President's morning intelligence briefing. He fed Bush the good stuff —
> raw
> human intelligence, along with plans for action — instead of meandering
> analysis. "He wasn't puffed up or pompous," says Vice President Dick
> Cheney.
> "The President clearly likes that." It also helped the CIA director
> that the

> President's father, the only person in the world who had been both CIA


> director and President, gave Tenet high marks."
> *************************************************************************
>

> What if in the aftermatch, the 9/11 death toll numbers dropped


> drastically,
> and almost all reported dead were fire fighters, police, plane
> passengers?
>
> What if Bush spokesmen like Limbaugh tried to blame "lack of asbestos
> over steel" in the WTC as the cause of the unforseen collapse?

> (pre-empt).

Chris Morton

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 10:08:22 AM12/28/01
to
In article <3C2C7494...@starband.net>, JRD says...

>
>You democrack-heads are all fucked up, first you accuse Bush of being the
>dumbest man on the planet, and now you accuse him of the most brilliant
>diabolical plan and cover-up in this countries history. I know Elvis and Jim
>Morrison planed it for him. You people need therapy, try Dr. Laura

The thing is that the mainstream Democratic party won't touch them with a ten
foot pole.

It is amusing that they talk about Bush in the same way that the neo-Nazis talk
about the Jews. They can't decide if Dr. No or Mr. Potatohead.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.

Maha

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 10:41:27 AM12/28/01
to
I sent an email to Odigo public relations to find out if the messages
story is true. The rest of your "news articles" amount to speculation.
They could have been Jewish. Hell, they could have been Swedish. You
must believe most of the democratic governments of the world are all
in a vast conspiracy to cover up the truth and scapegoat Arabs. Wow.

Skull...@charter.net (SkullnBonz) wrote in message news:<c814f244.01122...@posting.google.com>...

Chris Morton

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 10:28:15 AM12/28/01
to
In article <c814f244.01122...@posting.google.com>,
Skull...@charter.net says...

>
>Bill Bonde repeated the government line with: >
>> SkullnBonz wrote: > >
>>
>> > If I remember correctly, Olson booked the flight because she wanted to
>> > surprize her husband on his birthday... something like that, anyway,
>> > so he wasn't expecting her to be on a plane. I don't doubt that she's
>> > dead - collateral damage, you could call it.
>>
>> The trouble with that theory is that she called her husband and said
>> that her plane was hijacked by Arab type terrorists with boxcutters,
>> blah, blah, blah.
>
>So we're told... Is there any proof of the call having been made? If
>there is, where can we see it?

Is there any proof that you're not Osama Bin Laden?

Chris Morton

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 10:35:30 AM12/28/01
to
In article <3C2C2D...@worldnet.att.net>, chud...@worldnet.att.net says...

>
>TED OLSON SAID she made the call. That does NOT mean she was on
>the plane, or even made ANY call from ANYWHERE to ANYONE that day.

You say she didn't. That doesn't mean that she didn't, just that you CLAIM it.

> Ted Olson is a right wing LIAR, the tool of Scaife. Having Ted
>"say" something is ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS!

You're a nutcase every bit as squirrely as Alan Yu. Having you say something is
ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS!


JRD

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 1:16:43 PM12/28/01
to

Chris Morton wrote:

LOL

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 2:24:16 PM12/28/01
to

chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> TED OLSON SAID she made the call. That does NOT mean she was on
> the plane, or even made ANY call from ANYWHERE to ANYONE that day.
>

I'm sure you can check phone logs if it was made from a cell phone.


> Ted Olson is a right wing LIAR, the tool of Scaife. Having Ted
> "say" something is ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS!
>

So you are saying that Ted was in on this and Babs was just sacrificed?
Or is she still alive?

--

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 3:32:12 PM12/28/01
to
Chris Moron wrote: >

> JRD says: > >
>
> >You democrack-heads are all fucked up, first you accuse Bush of being the
> >dumbest man on the planet, and now you accuse him of the most brilliant
> >diabolical plan and cover-up in this countries history. I know Elvis and Jim
> >Morrison planed it for him. You people need therapy, try Dr. Laura

Smirk knows it's hard for us "to put food on our family," and he's
interested in knowing "is our children learning?" Dumb? How could
anyone ever think that? And you're right, he probably shouldn't be
accused of being brilliantly diabolical - Cheney, who's really running
the show, should be called that.

> The thing is that the mainstream Democratic party won't touch them with a ten
> foot pole.

You talk like there's some actual "difference" between the so-called
"two parties." Is that the new propaganda line? Saying that the
"mainstream" Democrats go along with Smirk, so everybody else should?



> It is amusing that they talk about Bush in the same way that the neo-Nazis
> talk about the Jews. They can't decide if Dr. No or Mr. Potatohead.

Are Fox News neo-Nazis? Why do you think the biggest spy scandal in US
history isn't being reported, Chris? I'll bet you've got some special
insight into this one.

Massive Isreali Spy Operaton
Discovered In US - Part 1
Carl Cameron Investigates
FoxNews.com
12-13-1

BRIT HUME, HOST: It has been more than 16 years since a civilian
working for the Navy was charged with passing secrets to Israel.
Jonathan Pollard pled guilty to conspiracy to commit espionage and is
serving a life sentence. At first, Israeli leaders claimed Pollard was
part of a rogue operation, but later took responsibility for his work.

Now Fox News has learned some U.S. investigators believe that there
are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S., who
may have known things they didn't tell us before Sept. 11. Fox News
correspondent Carl Cameron has details in the first of a four-part
series.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Since Sept. 11, more than 60
Israelis have been arrested or detained, either under the new patriot
anti-terrorism law, or for immigration violations. A handful of active
Israeli military were among those detained, according to
investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph
questions when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and
in the United States.

There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9/11
attacks, but investigators suspect that the Israelis may have gathered
intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly
placed investigator said there are "tie-ins." But when asked for
details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, "evidence linking
these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence
that has been gathered. It's classified information."

Fox News has learned that one group of Israelis, spotted in North
Carolina recently, is suspected of keeping an apartment in California
to spy on a group of Arabs who the United States is also investigating
for links to terrorism. Numerous classified documents obtained by Fox
News indicate that even prior to Sept. 11, as many as 140 other
Israelis had been detained or arrested in a secretive and sprawling
investigation into suspected espionage by Israelis in the United
States.

Investigators from numerous government agencies are part of a working
group that's been compiling evidence since the mid '90s. These
documents detail hundreds of incidents in cities and towns across the
country that investigators say, "may well be an organized intelligence
gathering activity."

The first part of the investigation focuses on Israelis who say they
are art students from the University of Jerusalem and Bazala Academy.
They repeatedly made contact with U.S. government personnel, the
report says, by saying they wanted to sell cheap art or handiwork.

Documents say they, "targeted and penetrated military bases." The DEA,
FBI and dozens of government facilities, and even secret offices and
unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel.
The majority of those questioned, "stated they served in military
intelligence, electronic surveillance intercept and or explosive
ordinance units."

Another part of the investigation has resulted in the detention and
arrests of dozens of Israelis at American mall kiosks, where they've
been selling toys called Puzzle Car and Zoom Copter. Investigators
suspect a front.

Shortly after The New York Times and Washington Post reported the
Israeli detentions last months, the carts began vanishing. Zoom
Copter's Web page says, "We are aware of the situation caused by
thousands of mall carts being closed at the last minute. This in no
way reflects the quality of the toy or its salability. The problem
lies in the operators' business policies."

Why would Israelis spy in and on the U.S.? A general accounting office
investigation referred to Israel as country A and said, "According to
a U.S. intelligence agency, the government of country A conducts the
most aggressive espionage operations against the U.S. of any U.S.
ally."

A defense intelligence report said Israel has a voracious appetite for
information and said, "the Israelis are motivated by strong survival
instincts which dictate every possible facet of their political and
economical policies. It aggressively collects military and industrial
technology and the U.S. is a high priority target."

The document concludes: "Israel possesses the resources and technical
capability to achieve its collection objectives."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

A spokesman for the Israeli embassy here in Washington issued a denial
saying that any suggestion that Israelis are spying in or on the U.S.
is "simply not true." There are other things to consider. And in the
days ahead, we'll take a look at the U.S. phone system and law
enforcement's methods for wiretaps. And an investigation that both
have been compromised by our friends overseas.

HUME: Carl, what about this question of advanced knowledge of what was
going to happen on 9/11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli
agents may have known something?

CAMERON: It's very explosive information, obviously, and there's a
great deal of evidence that they say they have collected ó none of it
necessarily conclusive. It's more when they put it all together. A
bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a
direct quote.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 4:15:44 PM12/28/01
to
It's the BUSH MAFIA, doing the planning, you moronic shithead.

The Bush Mafia leads the Moronic Puke Coward Appointee around
on a PR leash, making sure the Moronic Drunkard doesn't trip over
his elevator shoes as he spews his scripted lines.

The Bush Mafia had to put a moronic, no-conscience Serial Killer
in the White house so they could pursue their agenda unfettered.

.

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 4:19:42 PM12/28/01
to
In my opinion, she has had a face and tooth job and is still
around somewhere.

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 4:23:44 PM12/28/01
to

chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> In my opinion, she has had a face and tooth job and is still
> around somewhere.
>

Ok, so they had enough money to buy her and her husband off but what
about the many families who were on TV who said that their loved ones
called and claimed Arab terrorists?

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 4:39:23 PM12/28/01
to
"Many" families? Try about THREE.

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 4:36:49 PM12/28/01
to

chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> "Many" families? Try about THREE.
>

Three that had family members call or three that said they were 'Arab'
terrorists who had the plane?

Sumar Salt

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 4:55:13 PM12/28/01
to

"Bill Bonde" <stderr_...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3C2CE2E0...@mail.com...

>
>
> chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion, she has had a face and tooth job and is still
> > around somewhere.
> >
> Ok, so they had enough money to buy her and her husband off but what
> about the many families who were on TV who said that their loved ones
> called and claimed Arab terrorists?

The OBL tape seems to be improving on the credibility scale against this
argument.


Chris Morton

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 4:19:40 PM12/28/01
to

>> The thing is that the mainstream Democratic party won't touch them with a ten


>> foot pole.
>
>You talk like there's some actual "difference" between the so-called
>"two parties." Is that the new propaganda line? Saying that the
>"mainstream" Democrats go along with Smirk, so everybody else should?

The fact is that you're an America hating freak, and the Democratic party just
wishes you'd go away. You're poison to them.

>
>> It is amusing that they talk about Bush in the same way that the neo-Nazis
>> talk about the Jews. They can't decide if Dr. No or Mr. Potatohead.
>
>Are Fox News neo-Nazis? Why do you think the biggest spy scandal in US
>history isn't being reported, Chris? I'll bet you've got some special
>insight into this one.

Your views and the views of neo-Nazis are remarkably similar. It's no
coincidence.

You're just the same sort of Jew hating twit as "Secret Squirrel" and Alex
Vange.

Christopher Morton

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 6:01:30 PM12/28/01
to
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:15:44 GMT, chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

>It's the BUSH MAFIA, doing the planning, you moronic shithead.

You Jew haters are SO repetitious.
--

"sure an a nigger is going to use denigrate." - Glen Yeadon

Christopher Morton

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 6:02:24 PM12/28/01
to
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:19:42 GMT, chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

>In my opinion, she has had a face and tooth job and is still
>around somewhere.

In my opinion, you sniff glue.

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 6:34:53 PM12/28/01
to

They seem to be finding all sorts of little bits all over the world
which in retrospect point to 9/11 and bin Laden. Are all those things
made up? This would require the intelligence organizations of all the
nation-states in the EU to be in on the scam.

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 6:40:14 PM12/28/01
to
"Fifty1Ford" wrote: >
>
> First.
> Most of the stuff in this thread/group is crap.

> But I'm getting sick of posts that add nothing other than:
> > > Where do these lunatics come from?

> Either actually disprove/argue the case or shut up.
> I'm just sick of the lack of actual debate here.
> If you think someone is wrong.. Prove or debate your point.. Or shut up.

Go Speed Racer
Go Speed Racer
Go Speed Racer, GO!

I've been posting in these assorted and sundry "newsgroups" for a few
years now, and I've come to the conclusion that propaganda - not
debate - is the primary function for nearly all of the "core" posters.
Whether it's the so-called "liberals," or the so-called
"conservatives," the main goal is to create an illusion of difference
between the corporate-owned Republican and Democratic parties by
simply trading insults - reducing discussion to the level of rooting
for football teams. What else can they do, since "both" parties agree
on 90% of the issues, and are often funded by exactly the same special
interests? What is there for them to seriously debate, when the
leadership of "both" parties all belong to the Council on Foreign
Relations, Trilateral Commission, Bilderburgers, etc?

In 1996, if you recall, Bob Dole complained that Clinton had stolen
all his issues, leaving virtually no differences between them, and
last year all the Democrats could come up with was "It's the Supreme
Court, stupid," even though the Democrats themselves had helped put
jackasses like Thomas and Scalia on the bench. No debate over the drug
war, Middle East policy, Iraq sanctions, NAFTA, Nato, the Pentagon
budget (except for Gore saying he'd outspend Bush!) or anything at all
of real substance. So, what can we expect in these "newsgroups"
except mindless bickering? The very idea that Clinton was a "liberal,"
when he passed the corporate-Republican NAFTA wet dream and gutted
welfare, expanded the phony drug war, etc, etc, is ridiculous, and yet
that's the level of debate in these places. It's equally absurd to
call Bush a "conservative," unless being a whore for big oil and the
military-industrial complex equals "conservatism." Real conservatives
(the kind who want to preserve our national sovereignty and the
Constitution) are among Smirk's biggest critics. The fact that Gush
and Bore agreed with each other 32 times in one of their so-called
"debates" last year says it all - we have a one party system,
controlled by corporate dollars and special interests.

One of the most powerful special interests, I've learned, is the
Israeli lobby, and they are well represented here on the net, as they
are in the national media. (Which they mostly own, by the way) Observe
the unwavering support for Israel by the so-called "conservative"
posters, and it becomes clear what their real agenda is - to promote
the continued wagging of the US dog by the Zionist tail. I have no
hatred for Jewish people or any other racial or ethnic group, but if
you critisize Israel or question our multi-billion dollar a year
support of that country, you're immediately attacked as being an
"anti-Semitic Nazi." That's supposed to shut you up, without any real
debate. Or, in my case as of late, you'll be ignored in the hope that
you'll just quit posting altogether. Right now, one of the biggest
stories in the history of our country is unfolding - the discovery of
an Israeli spy and drug ring that had wiretapped into the FBI, DEA,
and probably the White House itself - and there's nothing but dead
silence in the national media and on the net! How can that be? How can
that possibly be? If a huge Islamic spy ring had been discovered,
that's ALL we'd be hearing about. "Where do these lunatics come from,"
indeed...

> "SkullnBonz" <Skull...@charter.net> wrote in message
> > Larry W. Jewell asked: >
> > >
> > > Where do these lunatics come from?
> >
> > You mean the lunatics who expect us to believe that the "Osama" in the
> > so-called "smoking gun tape" is the real bin Laden? Are those the
> > lunatics you're talking about?
> >
> > Have a look. Real Osama on right... fake Osama on left... Smirk is one
> > big fucking liar.
> >
> > http://www.rense.com/general18/wrong.htm

Michael Ejercito

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 8:01:04 PM12/28/01
to
chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote in message news:<3C2CE2...@worldnet.att.net>...

> It's the BUSH MAFIA, doing the planning, you moronic shithead.
>
> The Bush Mafia leads the Moronic Puke Coward Appointee around
> on a PR leash, making sure the Moronic Drunkard doesn't trip over
> his elevator shoes as he spews his scripted lines.
>
> The Bush Mafia had to put a moronic, no-conscience Serial Killer
> in the White house so they could pursue their agenda unfettered.
You Jew haters are so repititious.


Michael

chud...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 9:21:25 PM12/28/01
to
How can (the silence on the Israeli spy scandal) possibly be?

Because ALL the media in the USA is controlled by Zionists.

Edward G. Nilges

unread,
Dec 28, 2001, 9:40:57 PM12/28/01
to
"Russell Ranshaw" <rran...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message news:<eSjW7.13967$B47.6...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com>...

> >What if your luck doesn't hold out, and as 9/11's true facts
> emerge from conscience-stricken reporters, your phony "plan" is exposed?<
>
> There is a very serious problem with Bush being exposed. The American public
> would be devastated, especially members of the armed forces, many of whom
> would go nuts, there would be anarchy and lots of violence. Certainly the
> economy would be devastated. The US might actually collapse.

This speculation is epistemologically irresponsible, because by no
stretch of the imagination would any claim, that Sep 11 was an
engineered calamity, be found TRUE without a radical reengineering of
society, as a whole.

Suppose some Congressman found that an inner circle around Bush
decided to deliberately crash jets into the WTC. Precisely because
Congressmen are invested in the same set of assumptions as the inner
ring, he'd go nuts, or be proclaimed clinically insane, as was Lyndon
LaRouche, and locked up like LaRouche.

As long as a political memory exists, there will never be a single
agreement on the facts of any one incident, or their interpretation.
The French have been fighting for 200 years on the facts and
interpretation of the events of 1789, and the only reason why their
left and right haven't formed two countries, each based respectively
on the Royalist and the Jacobin interpretations, is that outside of
Paris the place is a dump.

I am saying that there's a strong sense in which the proposition
"George Bush deliberately engineered the crashes" cannot become
knowledge, at least in the sense of mathematical or scientific
knowledge. The reason is that political knowledge is by definition
shared knowledge.

On a theoretical plane, I am denying that a person who "knows" a true
political fact "knows" this fact until he gets a significant minority
to agree to set the fact into the public forum. If the fact
deconstructs the operant assumptions of the political forum then it
never becomes a true, political fact.

There is an element of pragmatism in my view. Effective political
action demands that you share the operant assumptions, one of which is
that the sovereign in a modern state does not make war deliberately on
his subjects or citizens.

You might read Chomsky on JFK conspiracy theory, for JFK conspiracy
theorists short-circuit effective change by claiming a deliberate
conspiracy.

It is far more serious that Bush benefited from an evil act that his
flaccid middle east policy caused, by handing over the middle east to
the oil companies in January of this year. It is far more serious
that Bush is willing to sacrifice NYC firemen, not to an engineered
calamity, but instead to the consequences of his stupidity, which he
is now using to justify handouts to the wealthy.

In somewhat the same way as astrology inoculates the personality
against the possibility of genuine personal change and genuine
redemption by teaching the personality to seek after reified signs
that have nothing to do with his life as lived, conspiracy theory
assists the powers that be by literally disempowering intelligent
people who waste their time on speculation when they could be
effecting change.

Bill Bonde

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 12:12:22 AM12/29/01
to

chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> How can (the silence on the Israeli spy scandal) possibly be?
>
> Because ALL the media in the USA is controlled by Zionists.
>

I get my news from mostly out of the US. I haven't heard anything about
this except some reporting of claims on the street that some people
still believe that bin Laden didn't do it.

JRD

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 12:27:22 AM12/29/01
to

Bill Bonde wrote:

Got the makings of a fiction novel here

Christopher Morton

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 2:57:39 AM12/29/01
to
On Thu, 27 Dec 2001 06:18:07 GMT, "Nereid" <Ner...@neptune.com> wrote:

>This disaster did play marvelously into Dumbo's hand. It's suspicious.

Certainly to Jew hating morons it is.

Christopher Morton

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 2:59:22 AM12/29/01
to
On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 02:21:25 GMT, chud...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

>How can (the silence on the Israeli spy scandal) possibly be?
>
> Because ALL the media in the USA is controlled by Zionists.

This is the crowd that Zepp hangs out with.

Jew haters of a feather....

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 3:43:36 AM12/29/01
to
Chris Moron wrote from Tel Aviv: >
> SkullnBonz says: > >
>
> > You talk like there's some actual "difference" between the so-called
> > "two parties." Is that the new propaganda line? Saying that the
> > "mainstream" Democrats go along with Smirk, so everybody else should?

> The fact is that you're an America hating freak, and the Democratic party just
> wishes you'd go away. You're poison to them.

I couldn't care less what one or the other "halves" of the Republicrat
Party wishes. As for "America hating," that's entirely YOUR bag, not
mine. I'm not the one shilling for a foreign power whose spies stole
US military secrets and sold them to the Soviet Union - you are. I'm
not the one shilling for a foreign power who tapped into the FBI, DEA,
and White House communication systems - you are. I'm not the one
shilling for a foreign power that wants young Americans to die
fighting a war on its behalf - you are.



> You're just the same sort of Jew hating twit as "Secret Squirrel" and Alex
> Vange.

Ah, the standard "anti-Semite" bullshit. I don't think that tired old
slur is going to work much longer, Morton.

Global Spy and Crime Network

The penetration of the U.S. wiretap system has led to a giant spy hunt
across the globe by American intelligence agencies. U.S. intelligence
officials now suspect the spy ring shared and sold information to
other nations.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israel gave secrets stolen by Pollard to Russia
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

Clinton Under Pressure to Grant Clemency to Pollard
By Paul Findley
June 1993

The fate of Jonathan Jay Pollard, the paid spy for Israel now serving
a life sentence in prison for stealing thousands of top-secret
documents while an employee of the U.S. Navy, is high on the White
House priority list facing Janet Reno, President Bill Clinton's
attorney general.

Reno's plate is filled with a wide assortment of tough legal
challenges, but none has behind it more political firepower than the
clemency plea for Israel's famous spy.

Since his presidential candidacy began two years ago, Clinton has been
under heavy pressure from pro-Israel interests to release Pollard,
despite the enormous damage to American security interests caused by
the spy's sale of U.S. secrets to the state of Israel over a five-year
period.

In a little-noted comment during the recent Washington convention of
the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the organization
registered to lobby for Israel's interests, Executive Director Thomas
A. Dine announced that a petition for clemency is now being examined
in the U.S. Department of Justice, moving through processing so that
papers will be in order if President Bill Clinton decides to release
Pollard.

In a letter to Aubrey Robinson, the federal judge presiding over the
Pollard trial, former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger declared
that Pollard's spying had caused "irrevocable harm" to the nation's
security and placed at high personal risk U.S. intelligence agents and
military personnel worldwide. The documents stolen by Pollard would
fill a box six feet by six feet by ten feet. Weinberger said: "The
sheer volume of information [stolen] has made this one of the worst
espionage cases in U.S. history."

Pollard's spying caused "Irrevocable harm" to the nation's security.

The Israeli government has invested more than a half-million dollars
in Pollard. Beginning in 1984, it paid him $1,500 a month for stealing
U.S. secret documents, then, pleased with the suitcases full of secret
documents he was copying from Navy files, quickly increased the pay to
$2,500 a month, with the promise that this income would continue for
nine more years. Israel also provided $20,000 to finance two luxury
vacations for Pollard, plus a $7,000 diamond for his wife.

In addition, according to ABC News, the Israeli government has
provided most of the $2 million set aside for his legal defense. The
rest comes from fund-raising appeals conducted among Jews worldwide.
Part of the money was used te employ attorney Alan Dershowitz, who
appealed the life sentence. Last October the U.S. Supreme Court
rejected the appeal.

According to United Press International, information stolen by Pollard
"was traded to the Soviets in return for promises to increase
emigration of Soviet Jews to Israel. " U.S. intelligence agents first
learned of this Israeli-Soviet spy link when information stolen by
Pollard was "traced to the Eastern bloc." At the time, the Cold war
was still a major challenge to the Untied States. The Warsaw Pact
still existed and governments of Eastern Europe were considered
unfriendly to the United States. The Soviet Union, a major beneficiary
of Pollard's spying, was America's number-one enemy.

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0693/9306015.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fox News Pulls Its Four-Part
Israeli US Phone Spying Series
Michael Rivero
riv...@whatreallyhappened.com
12-22-1

Fox News just yanked the four part story about the phone spying
scandal.

This has become absurd.

Here the FBI has just uncovered the largest spy ring ever discovered
in our country, and the government that owns and operates that spy
network is able to tell Fox News NOT to report the story?

Will someone explain to me what is going on when the nation that owns
the largest spy ring ever discovered inside the United States is, even
AFTER that spy ring is discovered and arrested, able to tell Fox News
what stories they can and cannot run?

We need to get this to as many people as possible. Clearly, the Mossad
has a huge network of people able to call and complain to Fox News to
remove the story. We must muster an even greater number of people to
call Fox News and DEMAND the full and complete story be put back on
the web site and on the air.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FOX NEWS ERASES NEWS STORY ABOUT ISRAELI PHONE SPYING FROM THEIR


WEBSITE.
Link to part 1 of the story now reads "This story no longer exists".
Please write Fox News at comm...@foxnews.com and demand the story be
reinstated.
I guess we now know the answer to the question, Is Israel blackmailing
the United States. I mean, here the FBI has uncovered and arrested the
largest single spy ring ever discovered inside the United States. And
yet the nation that owns and operates that spy ring is somehow STILL
able to order Fox News to kill an embarrassing story about that very
spy ring.

http://www.rense.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"American cowardice - in the face of the immensely powerful Jewish
lobby in the US - has produced a situation in which Washington remains
supinely silent while Mr Netanyahu, according to the Israeli paper
Yediot Ahronot, threatens to "burn Washington", should President Bill
Clinton attempt to force Israel to accept a 13 per cent withdrawal
from occupied Arab land." - Robert Fisk

THE INDEPENDENT, 6/1/98
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/qualitysales.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISRAELIS WITH NUKE PLANS LET GO. MOSSAD BLEW UP US INSTALLATION AND
TRIED TO BLAME IT ON ARABS IN 1956
FBI Fury As Men With Nuke Plans, Valid ISRAELI Passports Escape
By Katty Kay
The Times, London
11-2-1

WASHINGTON - With America on top security alert, the FBI was hunting
yesterday for six men of Middle Eastern appearance carrying plans of a
nuclear power plant and the Trans-Alaska oil pipeline who were picked
up by police in the Midwest over the weekend but then released.

The incident is thought to be connected with the latest FBI alert and
senior intelligence officials are furious that the men were set free
before they could be fully questioned.

The men were travelling in two groups of three in white saloon cars
when they were pulled over by police officers in the Midwest,
according to the Knight Ridder News Service. Security officials have
refused to disclose further details.

The men were searched and questioned and the state officers discovered
detailed plans and photographs of a nuclear power plant in Florida,
along with box cutters-the weapons used in the September 11 attacks-
and other equipment.

The men, who appeared to be of Middle Eastern origin and held Israeli
passports, were then interviewed by immigration officials. When their
passports and visas were found to be in order the officers, who were
not aware of the country's imminent security alert, let the men go
without first calling in the FBI to question them more thoroughly.

It is not clear why the men were pulled over in the first place nor
why intelligence officers were not given a chance to interview them.
Agents suspect that the men will by now have switched cars and tried
to flee the country, possibly to Canada.

Intelligence officials were especially concerned about the nuclear
plant details. America's nuclear facilities received special attention
in the latest FBI alert. The men were also carrying plans of the
800-mile Trans-Alaska pipeline, which delivers 17 per cent of
America's oil.

There are three nuclear facilities in Florida, which have now been
advised to step up security. One of the plants has called in local
police as an extra security precaution.

The news came as the US banned private flights near US nuclear
facilities for the next ten days, in connection with the warning of
another terrorist attack, and National Guard troops were deployed at
nuclear power plants in three southern states. The Nuclear Regulatory
Commission ordered the nation's 103 nuclear power plants to increase
security.

At a time when police have unprecedented powers to arrest and detain
people who are merely suspected of having links to terrorist
activities, the release of these six men has infuriated the FBI.

The incident suggests a dangerous lack of co-ordination between
different law enforcement bodies. Under America's new anti-terrorist
laws, police can hold someone almost indefinitely on charges of being
a "material witness" to terrorism. Canada announced that it had given
the US important intelligence about another possible imminent
terrorist attack. Canadian secret services intercepted telephone calls
and e-mails from al-Qaeda operatives in Canada that referred to a
major event taking place "down south" this week.

Law enforcement officials said that the US military intercepted
numerous other calls leading up to the alert, which all used the same
coded phrases. The FBI received intelligence about the new threat on
Monday.

Another Mossad Operation?

In 1956, Israel was engaged in one of its periodic wars with its Arab
neighbors. To get the United States to enter the conflict on its
behalf, the Jews of Tel Aviv thought they had the perfect plan. They
would blow up the U.S. information center in Cairo and blame the
Arabs. Americans, being incredibly naīve in these matters would
automatically blame the Arabs, rally around the flag, and--voilą--
it's off to war they go.

Only problem: The scheme backfired and the culprits were caught. The
upshot was a scandal which brought down one Israeli
government--although the Jewish state continued to sail right on,
collecting its billions from Uncle Sap while viciously trying to sink
one of America's unarmed communications ships, the USS Liberty.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So who benefits? The answer is obvious and very disturbing. Everyone
in the oil business will benefit, especially the Bush family and their
business partners. Everyone in the defense industrial complex will
benefit. The United Nations will benefit. The State of Israel will
benefit bigtime. Tyranny in the name of security will benefit and rule
over the American People. - William Cooper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people,
control America, and the Americans know it."
- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001
(reported by Hebrew Israeli radio station, Kol Yisrael)


Benyamin Netanyahu, former Israeli prime minister, on being asked
what the attack means for relations between the US and Israel:
"It's very good."
http://www.counterpunch.org/aftershocks.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Palestinian Life Under Israeli Occupation

Noura Erakat, a Palestinian-American, provides a passionate, first
hand dscription of the lives of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank
and Gaza. The most basic form of deception is fabricating the false
symetry between occupier and occupied, oppressor and victim. The
violence of the powerful Israeli occupation army using live
ammunition, tanks and helicopter gunships is equated with Palestinians
protesting against the loss of their rights, lands and lives.

Watch/Hear Noura:
http://www.freespeech.org/ramfiles/poetry_NouraErkat.ram

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 3:57:23 AM12/29/01
to
Christopher Moron consulted his AIPAC handbook and wrote: >

> chudecek wrote: > >
>
> > It's the BUSH MAFIA, doing the planning, you moronic shithead.
>
> You Jew haters are SO repetitious.

You America hating Zionist shills are SO repetitious...

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 6:04:37 AM12/29/01
to
Maha opined: >
>
> I sent an email to Odigo public relations to find out if the messages
> story is true. The rest of your "news articles" amount to speculation.

Not so, Maha. While the question of who planned and carried out the
Sept attacks has yet to be conclusively answered, the facts in the
stories are true. What's your reaction to the Israeli espionage story?
Why do you think it's being suppressed? If an Islamic spy ring had
been caught tapping into FBI, DEA, and possibly White House
communications, what kind of reaction do you think that would be
getting?

> They could have been Jewish. Hell, they could have been Swedish.

Exactly. And yet, with no solid proof of "whodunnit,"
we've slaughtered thousands of innocent Afghan civilians.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ENEMYFACES/6.jpg
This war is about oil and opium; 9-11 just provided the perfect
excuse.

> You must believe most of the democratic governments of the world are all
> in a vast conspiracy to cover up the truth and scapegoat Arabs. Wow.

Most of the "democratic" governments in the world? Who's bombing and
occupying Afghanistan? We are, along with our lapdogs, the English.
And of course, the Russians are back, after we spent billions helping
the Mujahedeen and Osama bin Laden kick them out in the 80's.

Let us know if you hear from Odigo, (one of the outfits implicated in
the spying scandal) and since you're in an investigative mood, perhaps
you could contact Kol Yisrael radio and verify the following quote:
"I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American


pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the
Americans know it."

- Ariel Sharon, Oct 3rd, 2001
(as reported by Kol Yisrael)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sunday, November 25, 2001

Evidence of Mossad Treachery in the WTC

Ed Toner:

Let's look at the hard evidence indicating the Mossad had
foreknowledge of the September 11 attack. The day after the attack on
the World Trade Center, the Jerusalem Post, the most respected and
famous Israeli newspaper in the world, reported that 4,000 Israelis
were missing in the attack on the WTC.

The Jerusalem Post (08:15 - Wed) "Thousands of Israelis missing near
WTC, Pentagon Wednesday September 12, 2001 The Foreign Ministry in
Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to
have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at
the time of the attack.
The list is made up of people who have not yet made contact with
friends or family, Army Radio reported.

Telephone connections between Israel and the New York City and
Washington, D.C. areas has been sporadic and unreliable since the
multiple attacks yesterday.

Ten thousand people are estimated to have been killed in the New York
attacks and another 800 in Washington.

Several hundred also went down with the hijacked planes."

Even without seeing the article in the Jerusalem Post, logic alone
would tell you that there would be many hundreds, if not thousands of
Israelis in the World Trade Center at the time of the attacks.

The international Jewish involvement in banking and finance is
legendary. Two of the richest firms in New York are Goldman-Sachs and
the Solomon Brothers; and both firms have offices in the Twin Towers.

Many executives in these firms regularly commute back and forth to
Israel.

New York is the center of world wide Jewish financial power and the
World Trade Center is at its epicenter.

One would expect the Israeli death toll to be catastrophic. The
Jerusalem Post certainly thought so on September 12, 2001.

Here is the beginning of its article:

Thousands of Israelis missing near WTC, Pentagon.
The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of
4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade
Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack. [...]

When George Bush made his speech before Congress, it turns out that he
made a significant error other than saying that the WTC attackers did
it because they "hated freedom," Bush made a point of saying that in
addition to thousands of Americans, 130 Israelis died in the WTC.

The implication was to say that Israel shared in our suffering, and
that we and Israel are in this thing together.

Upon hearing the number of 130 Israeli dead, it seemed suspiciously
low to me.

If 4,000 Israelis were at the WTC and the WTC death toll was about
4,500 (about 10 percent of the 45,000 people normally in the buildings
at that time), the Israeli toll should have probably been between 300
and 500.

130 deaths would have been unusually low. As a place for doing
business and for employment, the world Trade Center was not a huge
MacDonalds; it housed tens of thousands of highly paid, high tech and
high level jobs and executive positions.

They were primarily international finance, trade, banking and
brokerage firms.

These are the kinds of businesses where Israelis are traditionally
over-represented.

I asked myself how there could be only 130 Israelis dead, while there
were an estimated 199 dead from Columbia and 428 from the Philippines?
In previous articles I wrote on the September 11 terror, I did not
allude to these suspicions because I have always taken pride in not
writing anything I could not firmly substantiate.

But, while researching this article, I discovered the most surprising
fact I have ever run across in all my years of research and writing.

I discovered a simple fact that has enormous ramifications in regard
to the September terror attack:

There were, in fact, only three Israelis who had been confirmed as
dead: two on the planes and another who had been visiting the towers
on business and who was identified and buried.

After searching through dozens of articles trying to track down the
true Israeli death toll, I finally found a New York Times piece that
clarified the precise number of Israelis who died in the World Trade
Center attack.

Of the 130 Israelis President Bush claimed had died in the World Trade
Center, it turned out that 129 of them were still alive. Only one
Israeli had actually died in the catastrophe of the World Trade
Center. I was incredulous.

"Good God," I said outloud to myself, "only one Israeli!" Here is the
pertinent excerpt from the NY Times:

But interviews with many consulate officials Friday suggested that the
lists of people they were collecting varied widely in their
usefulness. For example, the city had somehow received reports of many
Israelis feared missing at the site, and President Bush in his address
to the country on Thursday night mentioned that about 130 Israelis had
died in the attacks.But Friday, Alon Pinkas, Israel's consul general
here, said that lists of the missing included reports from people who
had called in because, for instance, relatives in New York had not
returned their phone calls from Israel.

There were, in fact, only three Israelis who had been confirmed as
dead: two on the planes and another who had been visiting the towers
on business and who was identified and buried. (New York Times, Sept.
22)

The very low death toll of 130 suggested that a number of Israelis at
the Trade Center had been warned before the attack.

When I found out the truth that only one Israeli had died, there could
be no doubt that there had been a prior warning for many Israelis.

Either September 11 had to be a big Israeli holiday, or a number of
Israeli citizens had some advance warning of the impending attack.

The fact is that no Israeli or Jewish holiday falls on September 11.

Prior Warning to Israelis.
The next thing I researched was to see if there were any confirmed
warnings to Israelis prior to the attack.

I quickly found an article in Newsbytes, a news service of the
Washington Post, titled "Instant Messages To Israel Warned Of WTC
Attack." The Israeli daily, Ha'aretz, also confirmed the prior
warnings to Israel and confirmed that the FBI is investigating the
warnings.

The articles detailed that an Israeli messaging firm, Odigo, with
offices in both the World Trade Center and in Israel, received a
number of warnings just two hours before the attack. [...]

Now, who would have warned Israelis of the impending attack, if not
Israel's Mossad?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SkullnBonz

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 6:38:40 AM12/29/01
to
"Sumar Salt" blathered on with: >

>
> The OBL tape seems to be improving on the credibility scale against this
> argument.

Are you kidding? OK, one more time: Real Osama on right, fake Osama on left...

http://www.rense.com/general18/wrong.htm

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