Draft dodgers should not be allowed to wage war
Howard Rothenburg
Draft dodgers should not be allowed to wage war
Capitol Hill Blue
War, Gen. Douglas McArthur once said, is far too important to
be left to politicians.
In McArthur's time, draft dodgers didn't become President, so he
didn't have to include them in his warning.
Bill Clinton, the draft dodger who never grew up but became
President anyway, is now sending American men and women into
harm's way for a useless bombing of Kosovo.
His move so angered the Russians that prime minister Yevgeny
Primakov turned his plane around over the Atlantic and canceled a
long-scheduled trip to Washington.
While one less Russian roaming the streets of Washington is
nothing to lose sleep over, reports that they have put their nukes
on alert "just in case" encourages lots of insomnia.
Pentagon planners tell me privately the Kosovo action makes no
military sense, serves no strategic purpose for the United States,
and is a waste of manpower and resources.
Even worse, it fuels Anti-American factions in Russia who would
like nothing better than another cold war and arms race with the
U.S.
So once again, the military professionals are forced to accept
orders from a Commander-in-Chief they don't respect, knowing
full well that such action risks far more serious problems than it
solves.
What else do you expect from a man who refused to serve his
country, who openly evaded the draft in the 1960s and then lied
about it when it threatened to become a political issue in the
1990s?
Bill Clinton is a draft dodger. That fact has been proven. He's a
self-confessed liar, so his denials of dodging the draft have no
credibility. He's also a coward who approved shutting down
Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington to "improve security" at the
White House. Those who grew up with him in Arkansas say
Clinton was a mama's boy who would rather run than fight.
But the man who wouldn't pick up a weapon and defend his
country is now more than willing to pick up a a fountain pen and
sign an order to send in the bombers when he needs to divert
public attention away from sex scandals or a Chinese spy ring that
leads right back to his doorstep.
He's done it before. He's doing it again. Only this time, the risk
could be an expanded war or new tensions with Russia.
Why is he willing to risk a nuclear confrontation with the
Russkies? Why not just let them march into our national labs, like
China, and take what they want?
The answer is money, or the lack of it. The Russians are so
bankrupt they couldn't afford to launder any money into Clinton's
campaign fund. China did and they got all the White House help
they needed (and China, you might notice, is keeping its mouth
shut about Kosovo).
In Bill Clinton's world, everything is for sale: White House
bedrooms, contracts with the government, land deals, and the
security of the United States.
And if you can't pay, you can't play.
Cajun
people admire an amoral self-centered, lying, reprobate and elect him to the
highest office in the land, then it is a reflection on character of the
American people, one must assume they must share Bill Clinton's lack of
self-esteem.
Howard Rothenburg wrote in message ...
Cajun
Cajun
SuperVice
Scott Erb wrote in message <7dcfqk$23om$3...@sol.caps.maine.edu>...
>In article <O8jK2.761$nA.1...@newsfeed.slurp.net>, caj...@pyramid.net
>says...
>>
>>The American people voted Bill Clinton into office...twice. If the
>American
>>people admire an amoral self-centered, lying, reprobate and elect him to
>the
>>highest office in the land, then it is a reflection on character of the
>>American people, one must assume they must share Bill Clinton's lack of
>>self-esteem.
>
>
>I love it when you guys vent your frustration. It's so cute! :)
>
>Alas, I disagree with the decision to bomb Yugoslavia. But I agree with
>the decision by anyone who dodged the draft to avoid fighting an immoral
>war. I don't disrespect those who went, but I also respect those who
>dodged. No way would anyone make me go fight a war I don't believe in.
>Moralistic nationalists can shove it.
Notice Erb can't bring himself to say he respects those who served, just
that
he "doesn't disrespect" them. Rarely do I read something that I would claim
was written by a bonifide commie, but this is one.
mulders_notpairnoid_nuff
quayle/philgramm that avoided military service through questionable
means?
Howard Rothenburg wrote:
>
> Draft dodgers should not be allowed to wage war
> Capitol Hill Blue
>
> War, Gen. Douglas McArthur once said, is far too important to
> be left to politicians.
>
> In McArthur's time, draft dodgers didn't become President, so he
<snip of ranting right-wing-nut-case>
Tom Huppi
Howard Rothenburg wrote:
>
> Draft dodgers should not be allowed to wage war
> Capitol Hill Blue
Bad idea. Every two bit country in the world feels free to walk all
over us already just because we have too many chickenshit Republicans in
congress. We know that we would see the hawk side of chickehawks like
Gingrich, Quayle, Buchanan, Gramm, etc if they ever made it to office
since they know how easy it is for those with money to skate. If these
type of guys were hamstrung like Clinton is now, we would see superpower
status vanish even further over the horizon. It's only the economic
brilliance of our current administration that keeps us on the top at
this point.
<snip>
-Tom
Scott Erb
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
<hrot...@bcpl.net> wrote:
>
>Draft dodgers should not be allowed to wage war
>Capitol Hill Blue
>
>
> War, Gen. Douglas McArthur once said, is far too important to
>be left to politicians.
>
>In McArthur's time, draft dodgers didn't become President, so he
>didn't have to include them in his warning.
>
>Bill Clinton, the draft dodger who never grew up but became
>President anyway, is now sending American men and women into
>harm's way for a useless bombing of Kosovo.
>
>His move so angered the Russians that prime minister Yevgeny
>Primakov turned his plane around over the Atlantic and canceled a
>long-scheduled trip to Washington.
>
>While one less Russian roaming the streets of Washington is
>nothing to lose sleep over, reports that they have put their nukes
>on alert "just in case" encourages lots of insomnia.
>
>Pentagon planners tell me privately the Kosovo action makes no
>military sense, serves no strategic purpose for the United States,
>and is a waste of manpower and resources.
>
>Even worse, it fuels Anti-American factions in Russia who would
>like nothing better than another cold war and arms race with the
>U.S.
>
>So once again, the military professionals are forced to accept
>orders from a Commander-in-Chief they don't respect, knowing
>full well that such action risks far more serious problems than it
>solves.
>
>What else do you expect from a man who refused to serve his
>country, who openly evaded the draft in the 1960s and then lied
>about it when it threatened to become a political issue in the
>1990s?
Dick Cheney dodged and did ok as Defense secretary.
Armey, Newt, Quayle, Gov Bush, so many dodged. It was an entire
generation of those in good schools. From the classes of Harvard,
Yale, Princeton - I bet the number who went to Viet Nam back then was
one percent or less.
Promising to join ROTC was perfectly legal, same as the dodges of the
others.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
GHouck
Easy sentiments to vocalize ... very difficult to implement
in the real world. Otherwise, the 60-70's would have had a
whole different flavor.
ghouck
Scott Erb
>Notice Erb can't bring himself to say he respects those who served, just
>that he "doesn't disrespect" them. Rarely do I read something that I
>would claim was written by a bonifide commie, but this is one.
(yawn)
OK, here it is: I respect those who serve the military, believing they are
doing what is right for their country. I respect those who refuse to
serve believing that they are standing up for their moral beliefs.
Also, you really need to learn a little bit about philosophy and issues.
One's view on warfare really is unrelated to one's view on the nature of
the economic system. Communists have quite often been very militarist,
and non-Communists like Gandhi have often been pacifistic. How you relate
a dislike of war with Communism is bizarre. Of course, its par for the
course given the kind of stuff posted around here.
cheers, scott
HENRY E. KILPATRICK JR.
--
Buddy K
Howard Rothenburg (hrot...@bcpl.net) wrote:
: Bill Clinton is a draft dodger. That fact has been proven. He's a
Garrett Johnson
> Scott Erb wrote in message <7dcfqk$23om$3...@sol.caps.maine.edu>...
> >In article <O8jK2.761$nA.1...@newsfeed.slurp.net>, caj...@pyramid.net
> >>The American people voted Bill Clinton into office...twice. If the
> >>American people admire an amoral self-centered, lying, reprobate and elect
> him to
> >>the highest office in the land, then it is a reflection on character of the
> >>American people, one must assume they must share Bill Clinton's lack of
> >>self-esteem.
Or maybe they simply don't share your values.
{gasp!}
Could there be values out there that aren't yours?
> >(snicker)
> >Alas, I disagree with the decision to bomb Yugoslavia. But I agree with
> >the decision by anyone who dodged the draft to avoid fighting an immoral
> >war. I don't disrespect those who went, but I also respect those who
> >dodged. No way would anyone make me go fight a war I don't believe in.
> >Moralistic nationalists can shove it.
I agree with that statement.
> Notice Erb can't bring himself to say he respects those who served, just
> that he "doesn't disrespect" them. Rarely do I read something that I would
> claim
> was written by a bonifide commie, but this is one.
Can I be a "bonifide commie" too? Oh, please let me.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Frances Del Rio
> Draft dodgers should not be allowed to wage war
> Capitol Hill Blue
[......]
> So once again, the military professionals are forced to accept
> orders from a Commander-in-Chief they don't respect, knowing
> full well that such action risks far more serious problems than it
> solves.
If the military types have a problem carrying out Clinton's orders b/c he
refused to go fight in the Vietnam war, as many others did at the time,
that's THEIR problem. Clinton and all the others who refused had every
right to do so. Vietnam was a totaly unjustifiable war and history has
borne this out. I'd rather have a guy like Clinton, who will only use
force as a last resort, as commander-in-chief than some right-wing
war-loving dude who keeps equating "patriotism" with a willingness to go
to war.
-f-
John Rower
not in use then Clinton would have never been elected. He lost the
popular vote (should be populace vote) both times. This crook should not
be in the highest office of the land.
John Rower
Cajun
Spirit Explorer wrote in message <36fad165....@news.zianet.com>...
>Basicall I do agree with what the subject says, but I think it should
>be taken one step further...
>
>Idiots, and there are so darn many in this NG, shouldn't be allowed to
>to post in this or any other NG!!!
>
>Spirit Explorer
Cajun
obscenities that his message often gets lost. Now which one us are you to as
a G*ddam liar?
Gary wrote in message <36fbd956...@news.iquest.net>...
>On 25 Mar 1999 23:27:21 GMT, John Rower <JRo...@magicnet.net> wrote:
>
>>Had the Electoral College system (outdated and non-representitve) was
>>not in use then Clinton would have never been elected. He lost the
>>popular vote (should be populace vote) both times. This crook should not
>>be in the highest office of the land.
>>
>>John Rower
>>
>
>goddamned lie.
>But I expect no less from the "I hate Clinton" crowd.
>Its full of goddamned liars.
>
>Just in case you are not smart enough to figure it out I am calling
>you a goddamned liar.
>
aladdinsane
particular
action, it is the generals and the joint chiefs who ultimately make the field
decisions and who heavily influence the Commander in Chief on those
decisions. And aside from
Eisenhower and Teddy Roosevelt, we've never had in this century a President
who has held a leadership position in the U.S. military. Here's how it breaks
down:
Taft: never served in the military; however, was Secretary of War.
Wilson: never served in military.
Harding: never served.
Coolidge: don't know, but don't remember reading anything indicating he had
served.
Hoover: may have never served (not sure on this one)
Roosevelt: never served, though was Secretary of the Navy at one point.
Truman: Was a cavalryman in WWI
JFK: served in the Navy in WWII.
Johnson: don't think he ever served.
Nixon: was a Navy sailor.
Ford: I believe he was in the Navy as well.
Carter: served on a nuclear submarine.
Reagan: 4F'd in WWII. Made propaganda films instead.
Bush: Navy fighter pilot.
Clinton: never served.
Now let's look at the candidates for President:
Elizabeth Dole, Steve Forbes and Bill Bradley: never served
George W. Bush and Dan Quayle: National Guard (though there remains
persistent
questions as to how they got those positions)
John McCain: Vietnam POW (has been accused by one veteran's group of
collaboration
with his captors: search Deja News for relevant article I posted earlier)
Bob Smith: dont' know
Al Gore: served in Vietnam
Newt Gingrich: Academic deferment during Vietnam
Maker of that what you will
Spirit Explorer
Gary
Mary E Knadler
He has used military force more than any other President
in history. What a recod for a Draft-Dodger!
Would you ever believe it. I thought he hated "War"
& "Killing". Doesn't seem to bother him much now when he
sits "safely" in the Oval Office, right?
I guess after all was said & done he was really only
worried about saving his only "skin".
What a great guy. What a role model.
yasmin2
John Rower
happy99.exe. What a loser. He can't win the arguement with facts so he
name calls and tries to send a virus. LAME!
John
BBrass1022
Bill Brassard
NBL Dive Team
NASA/JSC
Mary E Knadler
Mary E Knadler
writes:
>I vote Spirit Explorer for NG Gauleiter!!!
>Spirit Explorer wrote in message
<36fad165....@news.zianet.com>...
And who decides which idiots get to post, You or some other
idiot?
yasmin2
RHA
John Rower <JRo...@magicnet.net> wrote:
>Had the Electoral College system (outdated and non-representitve) was
>not in use then Clinton would have never been elected. He lost the
>popular vote (should be populace vote) both times. This crook should not
>be in the highest office of the land.
Heh. Explain why he got more popular votes than anyone
else.
>
>John Rower
>
>
>
>Cajun wrote:
>>
>> The American people voted Bill Clinton into office...twice. If the American
>> people admire an amoral self-centered, lying, reprobate and elect him to the
>> highest office in the land, then it is a reflection on character of the
>> American people, one must assume they must share Bill Clinton's lack of
>> self-esteem.
>>
--
rha
Patrick Barker
Mary E Knadler wrote to this posting:
>>>Idiots, and there are so darn many in this NG, shouldn't be allowed
>to post in this or any other NG!!!
>And who decides which idiots get to post, You or some other
>idiot?
++ I agree? Who gets to choose? Shall we have a vote? I am now throwing
my hat in. I want to be the chief chooser!
mr_antone
>worried about saving his only "skin".
>
>What a great guy. What a role model.
>
> yasmin2
>
Tell us Mary, how many people died under Reagan's and Bushe's use of
military force as compared to Clinton.
Don't forget the hundreds of Marines who died in Beirut under Reagan.
Go ahead and tell us how brave Reagan and Bush were sending out boys
in harms way as compared to Clinton.
Tell us Mary if Reagan sent your boys into harm's way what would you
do ?
mr_antone
Cajun
Mary E Knadler <yas...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7devli$b...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com...
> In <w5BK2.1421$SY....@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Cajun" <caj...@pyramid.net>
> writes:
> >
> >I vote Spirit Explorer for NG Gauleiter!!!
> >Spirit Explorer wrote in message
> <36fad165....@news.zianet.com>...
> >>Basicall I do agree with what the subject says, but I think it should
> >>be taken one step further...
> >>
> to post in this or any other NG!!!
> >>
> >
> >
>
> And who decides which idiots get to post, You or some other
> idiot?
>
If your IQ=room temperature you may apply.
SuperVice
Cajun wrote in message ...
Mary pointed out the nazi aspect of your desire to censor
those you disagree with. That pisses you off.
Good.
JAS Carter
<caj...@pyramid.net> wrote:
>> >>Idiots, and there are so darn many in this NG, shouldn't be allowed
>> to post in this or any other NG!!!
>>
>> And who decides which idiots get to post, You or some other
>> idiot?
>
>If your IQ=room temperature you may apply.
Good thing it's really hot in here... ;)
Julie Carter
jsgo...@ohiohills.com
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/5795/
or
http://jsgoddess.ourfamily.com
--
Qui terret, plus ipse timet.--Claudian
Spirit Explorer
wrote:
>In <w5BK2.1421$SY....@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Cajun" <caj...@pyramid.net>
>writes:
>>
>>I vote Spirit Explorer for NG Gauleiter!!!
>>Spirit Explorer wrote in message
><36fad165....@news.zianet.com>...
>>>Basicall I do agree with what the subject says, but I think it should
>>>be taken one step further...
>>>
>>>Idiots, and there are so darn many in this NG, shouldn't be allowed
>to post in this or any other NG!!!
>>>
>>>Spirit Explorer
>>
>>
>
>And who decides which idiots get to post, You or some other
>idiot?
>
> yasmin2
I don't know, I would guess that any ole idiot would do!!!!
Spirit Explorer
Bill Bonde
Read all about it!
Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
Pull My Finger..
And, again, MARY, *never* had to worry about the military draft!
Sounds like she's all in favor of it, however, that is, she can't
abide with Clinton's dodging it..
Scott Erb
says...
>
>Extra! Extra!
>
>Read all about it!
>
In that case I will only cast my vote for draft dodgers!
The would probably mean I'd have to vote Republican in the next election
though...
Is the proposed rule an effort to make me vote Republican?
JAS Carter
<std...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
>Extra! Extra!
>
>Read all about it!
>
>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
Now if it would just read "Presidents not allowed to wage war" I'll be
contented.
HENRY E. KILPATRICK JR.
: On 25 Mar 1999 23:27:21 GMT, John Rower <JRo...@magicnet.net> wrote:
: >Had the Electoral College system (outdated and non-representitve) was
: >not in use then Clinton would have never been elected. He lost the
: >popular vote (should be populace vote) both times. This crook should not
: >be in the highest office of the land.
: >
: >John Rower
: >
: Of course everyone that has even half a brain knows this is a
: goddamned lie.
: But I expect no less from the "I hate Clinton" crowd.
: Its full of goddamned liars.
: Just in case you are not smart enough to figure it out I am calling
: you a goddamned liar.
Oh, don't go that far. It could be abject stupidity. Maybe it's those 2
masters degrees he claims he has and the phd he claims to be working on at
a school that doesn't even offer one.
--
Buddy K
HENRY E. KILPATRICK JR.
: In <w5BK2.1421$SY....@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Cajun" <caj...@pyramid.net>
: writes:
: >
: >I vote Spirit Explorer for NG Gauleiter!!!
: >Spirit Explorer wrote in message
: <36fad165....@news.zianet.com>...
: >>Basicall I do agree with what the subject says, but I think it should
: >>be taken one step further...
: >>
: >>Idiots, and there are so darn many in this NG, shouldn't be allowed
: to post in this or any other NG!!!
: >>
: >>Spirit Explorer
: >
: >
: And who decides which idiots get to post, You or some other
: idiot?
I decide, Mary. "Hueogots" don't get to post.
--
Buddy K
"Typical red-necked jealousy. My ancesters were land owning French
Hueogots (sic) that go back to the revolution."
--Mary Knadler, trying to put on airs claiming recent immigrants as
ancestors.
--
Buddy K
Bill Bonde
>
> In article <3705e17b....@news.ohiohills.com>,
> jsgo...@ohiohills.com (JAS Carter) wrote:
>
> "On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, in talk.politics.misc Bill Bonde
> "<std...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
> "
> ">Extra! Extra!
> ">
> ">Read all about it!
> ">
> ">Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
> "
> "Now if it would just read "Presidents not allowed to wage war" I'll be
>
> Or better: "The President is not allowed to START any war."
>
The president must have the right to involve us in short term conflicts
or in things requiring rapid decision. Foreign policy is mainly the
purview of the president. War and long term conflict, however, must
constitutionally be submitted to Congress.
E Right
JAS Carter
>">Extra! Extra!
>">
>">Read all about it!
>">
>">Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
>"
>"Now if it would just read "Presidents not allowed to wage war" I'll be
>"contented. --Julie Carter
>
>Or better: "The President is not allowed to START any war."
I dunno. I think I'd rather he/she couldn't get in it at all.
JAS Carter
http://www.geocities.com/heartland/lake/5795
--
"We are all of us more or less unwilling to be brought into the world. And we are all of us right."
Edmund E. Freeman
>In article <3705e17b....@news.ohiohills.com>,
>jsgo...@ohiohills.com (JAS Carter) wrote:
>
>"On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, in talk.politics.misc Bill Bonde
>"<std...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
>"
>">Extra! Extra!
>">
>">Read all about it!
>">
>">Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
>"
>"Now if it would just read "Presidents not allowed to wage war" I'll be
>"contented. --Julie Carter
>
>Or better: "The President is not allowed to START any war."
It's an old rule. It's in the US Constitution. Only the
Senate gets to declare war.
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Edmund E. Freeman Stupidity has saved |
| http://www.blarg.net/~efreeman many a man from insanity.|
+------------------------------------------------------------+
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>Extra! Extra!
>
>Read all about it!
>
>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
who hid behind her skirts.
We don't want a President with his hands tied.
I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
Hawks.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
Gissimo
>rule!)^
>From: tyre...@workOMITmail.com (George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.)
>Date: 3/29/99 8:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>
>
>On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Extra! Extra!
>>
>>Read all about it!
>>
>>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
>
>Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>who hid behind her skirts.
Now of those how many took ROTC scholarships promising to go active, then
backed out? Whoops only one peice of shit there. Clinton.
The OldTimer
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
<36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>...
>On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Extra! Extra!
>>
>>Read all about it!
>>
>>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
>
>Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>who hid behind her skirts.
>
>
>I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
>
>Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>
>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
>Hawks.
>
>
>
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>
And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
One of the most enjoyable things about being 65 is
watching the younger generations make the same
dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
buy the same political scams and fall for the same
societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
The OldTimer
Scott Erb
>
>And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
>anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
>dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
>draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
Wow, you sure got this guy riled ;)
Frankly, it appears that only a few folks like this "old timer" really get
upset about the fact that some people -- correctly in my opinion -- dodged
the draft to avoid an immoral war. I think that was the right and
honorable decision, though I understand and also respect those who did
what the government ordered.
ciao, scott
theauctioneer
The OldTimer <t...@told.net> wrote in message
news:gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com...
>
> George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
> <36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>...
> >On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Extra! Extra!
> >>
> >>Read all about it!
> >>
> >>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
> >
> >Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
> >dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
> >who hid behind her skirts.
> >
> >We don't want a President with his hands tied.
> >
> >I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
> >
> >Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
> >
> >Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
> >one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
> >the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
> >Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
> >Hawks.
> >
> >
> >
> >George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
> >
>
> anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
> dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
> draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>
> watching the younger generations make the same
> dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
> buy the same political scams and fall for the same
> societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
> is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
> their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>
> The OldTimer
>
the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:" You
can't get much more truthful than that.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
><36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>...
>>On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Extra! Extra!
>>>
>>>Read all about it!
>>>
>>>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
>>
>>Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>>dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>>who hid behind her skirts.
>>
>>We don't want a President with his hands tied.
>>
>>I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
>>
>>Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>>
>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
>>Hawks.
>>
>>
>>
>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>>
>
>And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
>anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
>dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
>draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
Glad you agree with me that Mr. Cheney should not have been Secretary
of Defense, that Gov Bush is not fit to be President.
It's good when we can find consensus.
>
>One of the most enjoyable things about being 65 is
>watching the younger generations make the same
>dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
>buy the same political scams and fall for the same
>societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
>is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
>their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>
>The OldTimer
>
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
SuperVice
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
He really didn't agree with you, basically he called you a pussy.
Bill Bonde
> >anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
> >dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
> >draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>
>
> Frankly, it appears that only a few folks like this "old timer" really get
> upset about the fact that some people -- correctly in my opinion -- dodged
> the draft to avoid an immoral war. I think that was the right and
> honorable decision, though I understand and also respect those who did
> what the government ordered.
>
Both were CIVIL wars. Vietnam had the added elements of the Cold War.
The current one is basically expending expensive military ordnance for
the sake of one side who likely will end up hating us anyway.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>Scott Erb wrote:
>>
>> In article <gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com>, t...@told.net says...
>> >
>> >And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
>> >anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
>> >dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
>> >draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>>
>> Wow, you sure got this guy riled ;)
>>
>> Frankly, it appears that only a few folks like this "old timer" really get
>> upset about the fact that some people -- correctly in my opinion -- dodged
>> the draft to avoid an immoral war. I think that was the right and
>> honorable decision, though I understand and also respect those who did
>> what the government ordered.
>>
>Vietnam wasn't an immoral war any more than this Kosovo war is immoral.
The war killed about two million people. If you think that the odds of
our prevailing were slim, that's two million people down the drain.
Wasting two million lives is immoral, IMO.
If you thought we could win, and stop the onslaught of the evil
empire, then you would take a different view, of course.
I don't see Yugoslavia as likely to kill off a couple million for no
good reason. Given the Serbian actions in previous wars, with hundreds
of thousands killed as a result, it would seem that our actions have a
reasonable chance of saving lives rather than destroying them.
So I see the two as different.
>Both were CIVIL wars. Vietnam had the added elements of the Cold War.
>The current one is basically expending expensive military ordnance for
>the sake of one side who likely will end up hating us anyway.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
Spirit Explorer
wrote:
>Scott Erb wrote:
>>
>> In article <gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com>, t...@told.net says...
>> >
>> >And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
>> >anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
>> >dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
>> >draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>>
>> Wow, you sure got this guy riled ;)
>>
>> Frankly, it appears that only a few folks like this "old timer" really get
>> upset about the fact that some people -- correctly in my opinion -- dodged
>> the draft to avoid an immoral war. I think that was the right and
>> honorable decision, though I understand and also respect those who did
>> what the government ordered.
>>
>Vietnam wasn't an immoral war any more than this Kosovo war is immoral.
>Both were CIVIL wars. Vietnam had the added elements of the Cold War.
>The current one is basically expending expensive military ordnance for
>the sake of one side who likely will end up hating us anyway.
What was immoral about it was the fact that our dear government
drafted boys illegally. I say illegal because Vietnam was never
declared a war at all. Korea was never declared a war either and also
drafted illegally. Yes, being in Kosovo is immoral. We just keep going
over to other countries and pushing out attitudes off on other people
who don't want us there anyway.
I think that this country needs to get our shit together and quit
trying to be the policemen of the world.
Spirit Explorer
Bill Bonde
>
> On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:55:42 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Scott Erb wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com>, t...@told.net says...
> >> >
> >> >And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
> >> >anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
> >> >dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
> >> >draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
> >>
> >> Wow, you sure got this guy riled ;)
> >>
> >> Frankly, it appears that only a few folks like this "old timer" really get
> >> upset about the fact that some people -- correctly in my opinion -- dodged
> >> the draft to avoid an immoral war. I think that was the right and
> >> honorable decision, though I understand and also respect those who did
> >> what the government ordered.
> >>
> >Vietnam wasn't an immoral war any more than this Kosovo war is immoral.
>
> our prevailing were slim, that's two million people down the drain.
> Wasting two million lives is immoral, IMO.
>
>
> If you thought we could win, and stop the onslaught of the evil
> empire, then you would take a different view, of course.
>
It wasn't a one hundred percent win for the Evil Empire either.
> I don't see Yugoslavia as likely to kill off a couple million for no
> good reason. Given the Serbian actions in previous wars, with hundreds
> of thousands killed as a result, it would seem that our actions have a
> reasonable chance of saving lives rather than destroying them.
>
BUT it isn't a million lives here or there that are important to
Americans. It is American lives. That's what counts.
> So I see the two as different.
>
So, we have the option of leaving them alone and letting them kill each
other, a right that peoples should generally have, and not losing
Americans. Or we can go in there and shoot everyone up and lose
Americans and probably start a wider war. It's a no brainier.
RHA
The OldTimer <t...@told.net> wrote:
>
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
><36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>...
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Extra! Extra!
>>>
>>>Read all about it!
>>>
>>>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
>>
>>Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>>dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>>who hid behind her skirts.
>>
>>We don't want a President with his hands tied.
>>
>>I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
>>
>>Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>>
>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
>>Hawks.
>>
>>
>>
>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>>
>
>anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
>dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
>draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
Oops. Sounds like "Oldtimer" now regrets wearing high heels to
his pre-induction physical.
BTW, do you advocate forced service.
If we ever resume an active draft, I suggest college entrance
require prior military service. Those that benefit the most
from the system should be the ones to pay for those benefits.
>
>One of the most enjoyable things about being 65 is
>watching the younger generations make the same
>dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
>buy the same political scams and fall for the same
>societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
>is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
>their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>
>The OldTimer
>
>
--
rha
Scott Erb
says...
>
>BUT it isn't a million lives here or there that are important to
>Americans. It is American lives. That's what counts.
For some. I personally, out of my own moral and ethical belief system,
tend to consider the loss of a non-American life to be just as much a
tragedy as the loss of an American life. However, I suspect that the kind
of values (we are more important than they) Bill supports are one of the
reasons we have so much war -- few people really value human life *per
se.* I suspect someday that will slowly change, but perhaps not during
our life time.
cheers, scott
Mary E Knadler
<theauc...@mediaone.net> writes:
>
>
>The OldTimer <t...@told.net> wrote in message
>news:gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com...
>>
>> watching the younger generations make the same
>> dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
>> buy the same political scams and fall for the same
>> societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
>> is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
>> their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>>
>> The OldTimer
>>
consider
>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:"
>can't get much more truthful than that.
>
>
>
We don't have to keep looking back. We should dcide this
thing early on. Those whwish to see ground troops in
Kosovo should volumteer & go over & help. But we should
not commit our gov't to a bunch of Kosovo KLA terroists.
They are lying about the situtation saying there is
"genocide" just to get out military involved.
This is another break-away republic from the old
Yugoslavia. We should not encourage this as it will
just become another UN or US "protectoret as is Bosnia.
All these things must be worked out peacefully over
time not thru military force.
Let's just stop the bombing........ it is "immoral".
The OldTimer
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:38:48 -0600, "The OldTimer" <t...@told.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>><36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>...
>>>On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Extra! Extra!
>>>>
>>>>Read all about it!
>>>>
>>>>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
>>>
>>>Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>>>dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>>>who hid behind her skirts.
>>>
>>>We don't want a President with his hands tied.
>>>
>>>I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
>>>
>>>Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>>>
>>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>>>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
>>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
>>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
>>>Hawks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>>>
>>
>>And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
>>anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
>>dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
>>draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>
>of Defense, that Gov Bush is not fit to be President.
>
>>
>>watching the younger generations make the same
>>dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
>>buy the same political scams and fall for the same
>>societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
>>is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
>>their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>>
>>The OldTimer
>>
>
>
Don't forget that Bill Clinton is not fit to be the toilet paper that wipes
a veterans ass, either!!! But you and he seem to get along well.
Bill Bonde
>
> >>>>> Bill Bonde writes:
>
> >> I don't see Yugoslavia as likely to kill off a couple million for no
> >> good reason. Given the Serbian actions in previous wars, with hundreds
> >> of thousands killed as a result, it would seem that our actions have a
> >> reasonable chance of saving lives rather than destroying them.
>
> Bill> Americans. It is American lives. That's what counts.
>
> So non-Americans do not have a right to life?
>
Didn't say that. I said it wasn't MY responsibility or the responsibly
of my country.
> Personally I value the lives of civilian stranger equally,
> no matter what country they are from.
>
How very infringing of you, for a libertarian.
theauctioneer
I feel the same way about Reagan. Tough stuff on the butt.
> One of the most enjoyable things about being 65 is
> watching the younger generations make the same
> dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
> buy the same political scams and fall for the same
> societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
> is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
> their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>
Are you getting senile with age since you posted this already, or is this
your tagline? If so, it's gotta be the longest I've ever seen, and could
fit either side of the political realm...
>
>
>
>
>
theauctioneer
SuperVice <su...@vice.com> wrote in message
news:7dr1b6$1...@journal.concentric.net...
>
Gosh.....that's just awful! I'm sure he's shedding tears over that one!
LQuest
>
>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>>>Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>>>
>>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>>>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
>>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
>>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
>>>Hawks.
>
> Don't leave out Pat Buchanan and Lamar Alexander -- as well
>as Dick Armey, Phil Gramm (who claimed he could do more to advance
>the war by teaching in the university than slogging thru the swamps of
>SE Asia, he said, "I never even CONSDERED volunteerint").
> D. Ferrel Atkins
> And of course we should mention Super Patriot Rush
>Limbaugh who developed a pimple on his ass when duty called.
>
Even if ALL of this were true (which I doubt), what bearing does it have on
the merit of their present day ideas or actions?
--Mike
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>In <7dqq3c$g00$1...@denws02.mw.mediaone.net> "theauctioneer"
><theauc...@mediaone.net> writes:
>>
>>
>>The OldTimer <t...@told.net> wrote in message
>>news:gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com...
>>>
>>> George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>>> <36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>...
>>> >On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, Bill Bonde
><std...@mailexcite.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>Extra! Extra!
>>> >>
>>> >>Read all about it!
>>> >>
>>> >>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to
>wage war!
>>> >
>>> >Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>>> >dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>>> >who hid behind her skirts.
>>> >
>>> >We don't want a President with his hands tied.
>>> >
>>> >I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
>>> >
>>> >Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>>> >
>>> >Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable
>for
>>> >one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
>>> >the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid
>it:
>>> >Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican
>Chicken
>>> >Hawks.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>>> >
>>>
>>> And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names
>means
>>> anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the
>other
>>> dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger
>is a
>>> draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>>>
>>> One of the most enjoyable things about being 65 is
>>> watching the younger generations make the same
>>> dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
>>> buy the same political scams and fall for the same
>>> societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
>>> is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
>>> their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>>>
>>> The OldTimer
>>>
>>The truth of the matter, as was stated in his post was....."But
>consider
>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:"
> You
>>can't get much more truthful than that.
>>
>>
>>
>
>We don't have to keep looking back. We should dcide this
>thing early on. Those whwish to see ground troops in
>Kosovo should volumteer & go over & help. But we should
>not commit our gov't to a bunch of Kosovo KLA terroists.
>
SOmetimes bad people are on our side. Sometimes our interests join
with theirs. For instance, we want people to get rich and walk around
with tons of money to spend. So do thieves. When we do things to help
the economy, we are not really doing it for the thieves.
>They are lying about the situtation saying there is
>"genocide" just to get out military involved.
We are involved mainly for geo-political reasons - the possibility of
war between Greece and Turkey, etc.
>
>This is another break-away republic from the old
>Yugoslavia. We should not encourage this as it will
>just become another UN or US "protectoret as is Bosnia.
Milosovic started gearing up to run all the Albanians out of Kosovo.
We are trying to stop him, because the refugees threaten the stability
of Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece. ANd wars between
moslems and Christians also risk hardening that dangerous schism.
>
>All these things must be worked out peacefully over
>time not thru military force.
Fine. That's our proposal. Milosovic turned it down, and began massing
troops around Kosovo to run the Albanians out.
>
>Let's just stop the bombing........ it is "immoral".
Real politik.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:55:42 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Scott Erb wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In article <gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com>, t...@told.net says...
>> >> >
>> >> >And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
>> >> >anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
>> >> >dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
>> >> >draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>> >>
>> >> Wow, you sure got this guy riled ;)
>> >>
>> >> Frankly, it appears that only a few folks like this "old timer" really get
>> >> upset about the fact that some people -- correctly in my opinion -- dodged
>> >> the draft to avoid an immoral war. I think that was the right and
>> >> honorable decision, though I understand and also respect those who did
>> >> what the government ordered.
>> >>
>> >Vietnam wasn't an immoral war any more than this Kosovo war is immoral.
>>
>> The war killed about two million people. If you think that the odds of
>> our prevailing were slim, that's two million people down the drain.
>> Wasting two million lives is immoral, IMO.
>>
>I don't think the odds of prevailing were slim.
>
>
>
>>
>> If you thought we could win, and stop the onslaught of the evil
>> empire, then you would take a different view, of course.
>>
>It wasn't a one hundred percent win for the Evil Empire either.
>
>
>
>> I don't see Yugoslavia as likely to kill off a couple million for no
>> good reason. Given the Serbian actions in previous wars, with hundreds
>> of thousands killed as a result, it would seem that our actions have a
>> reasonable chance of saving lives rather than destroying them.
>>
>BUT it isn't a million lives here or there that are important to
>Americans. It is American lives. That's what counts.
Sorry. I thought we were talking about morality.>
>
>
>> So I see the two as different.
>>
>So, we have the option of leaving them alone and letting them kill each
>other, a right that peoples should generally have, and not losing
>Americans. Or we can go in there and shoot everyone up and lose
>Americans and probably start a wider war. It's a no brainier.
The issue is really about instability in Albania, Macedonia, Greece,
Bulgaria and Turkey, and threats to Moslem=Christian friendships.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>Don't forget that Bill Clinton is not fit to be the toilet paper that wipes
>a veterans ass, either!!! But you and he seem to get along well.
yes. He works very hard to make the world a better place, and has the
skills to get it done.
We all owe him a lot.
You seem sort of grumpy.
Relax and smell the roses.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
(Spirit Explorer) wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:55:42 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Scott Erb wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com>, t...@told.net says...
>>> >
>>> >And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
>>> >anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
>>> >dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is a
>>> >draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>>>
>>> Wow, you sure got this guy riled ;)
>>>
>>> Frankly, it appears that only a few folks like this "old timer" really get
>>> upset about the fact that some people -- correctly in my opinion -- dodged
>>> the draft to avoid an immoral war. I think that was the right and
>>> honorable decision, though I understand and also respect those who did
>>> what the government ordered.
>>>
>>Vietnam wasn't an immoral war any more than this Kosovo war is immoral.
>>Both were CIVIL wars. Vietnam had the added elements of the Cold War.
>>The current one is basically expending expensive military ordnance for
>>the sake of one side who likely will end up hating us anyway.
>
>What was immoral about it was the fact that our dear government
>drafted boys illegally. I say illegal because Vietnam was never
>declared a war at all. Korea was never declared a war either and also
>drafted illegally. Yes, being in Kosovo is immoral. We just keep going
>over to other countries and pushing out attitudes off on other people
>who don't want us there anyway.
>
>I think that this country needs to get our shit together and quit
>trying to be the policemen of the world.
>
>Spirit Explorer
I don't think the legal aspects are too important in determining the
moral angle of Viet Nam.
We are acting less in the policeman role than usual - this is a NATO
operation, not just US. And we act not to just keep others following
the rules, but out of selfish interests - a desire to avoid wider war
in Europe, which would hurt our economic and security interests.
I think you would be happy to know how wonderfully selfish our motives
really are.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
RHA
Mary E Knadler <yas...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <7dqq3c$g00$1...@denws02.mw.mediaone.net> "theauctioneer"
><theauc...@mediaone.net> writes:
>>
>>
>>The OldTimer <t...@told.net> wrote in message
>>news:gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com...
>>>
>>> George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>>> <36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>...
><std...@mailexcite.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>Extra! Extra!
>>> >>
>>> >>Read all about it!
>>> >>
>>> >>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to
>wage war!
>>> >
>>> >Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>>> >dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>>> >who hid behind her skirts.
>>> >
>>> >We don't want a President with his hands tied.
>>> >
>>> >I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
>>> >
>>> >Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>>> >
>>> >Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable
>for
>>> >one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
>>> >the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid
>it:
>>> >Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican
>Chicken
>>> >Hawks.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>>> >
>>>
>means
>>> anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the
>other
>>> dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger
>is a
>>> draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>>>
>>> watching the younger generations make the same
>>> dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
>>> buy the same political scams and fall for the same
>>> societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
>>> is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
>>> their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>>>
>>> The OldTimer
>>>
>>The truth of the matter, as was stated in his post was....."But
>consider
>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:"
> You
>>can't get much more truthful than that.
>>
>>
>>
>
>We don't have to keep looking back. We should dcide this
>thing early on. Those whwish to see ground troops in
>Kosovo should volumteer & go over & help. But we should
>not commit our gov't to a bunch of Kosovo KLA terroists.
>
>"genocide" just to get out military involved.
>
>Yugoslavia. We should not encourage this as it will
>just become another UN or US "protectoret as is Bosnia.
Well, ya know, honeybunch, that's pretty much
how Lincoln felt about your kind. Maybe ethnic
cleansing would have been appropriate in 1861.
In which case you might be Senora Knadler. Gee,
that sounds......interesting.
>
>All these things must be worked out peacefully over
>time not thru military force.
Hmmmmmm, Fort Sumter???????
>
>Let's just stop the bombing........ it is "immoral".
--
rha
Mary E Knadler
(George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.) writes:
>
>On 30 Mar 1999 21:49:38 GMT, yas...@ix.netcom.com (Mary E Knadler)
>with theirs. For instance, we want people to get rich and walk around
>with tons of money to spend. So do thieves. When we do things to help
>the economy, we are not really doing it for the thieves.
>
>>"genocide" just to get out military involved.
>
>war between Greece and Turkey, etc.
>>
>>Yugoslavia. We should not encourage this as it will
>>just become another UN or US "protectoret as is Bosnia.
>
>We are trying to stop him, because the refugees threaten the stability
>of Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece. ANd wars between
>moslems and Christians also risk hardening that dangerous schism.
>>
>>time not thru military force.
>
and began massing troops around Kosovo to run the Albanians out.
>>
>
>
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>
Why should any country accept occupation NATO forces. Serbia
would never accept them unless they are completely defeated
militarily.
We get in trouble when we ally ourselves with "bad" guys.
We have done that too many times in the past.
Why don't you listen to people on C-Span who know what
they are talking about instead of wild-woman Albright,
& these talking heads like Bill Kristol & those others
that have no idea what they are talking about.
To try to rearrange these populations into enclaves or
some sort of Partition or whatever will take long & hard
& most importantly unbiased discussions & negotiations.
Mrs Albright is not interested in this. A diplomat is
supposed to do everything to bring about peaceful settlements.
It may take years to get all these various areas living
more peacefully. She seems to think everything has to happen
just because she wants it to. She is not the Secretary
of Defense.
We were able to handle the problems we had with the
Soviet Union thru quite a number of crises without
any bombing or even threats of bombing for over 50 years.
The one exception being the "Missle Crisis".
All these ethnic groups of the former Soviet block have
gone thru a very traumatic change & we have to try to help
them form new groupings or some arrangements to reduce
the problems not create new wars & hatreds thru bombing
& violence.
No people want to live under occupation forces that they
feel wil be there forever & have shown that they are biased
toward them. Look how the Palestinians have to live
every single day with Israeli occupation. Look what
we are doing to Iraqi.....constant bombing. No fly zones
that are totally "illegal" under international law.
This Administration is going to end up with most of
the world hating us instead of looking to us for
help with peaceful solutions to their very difficult
problems. They have not respected either the "Helsinki
Accords" or the "Geneva Connvention" on these issues.
If you going to try to run the world you do have to respect
international law if yoo expect others to.
I never thought I would say this but I do believe Russia
is acting much better than we are to prevent war in
these difficult situations.
It makes me very angry to see the Department of State
where I once work worked come to this.
This woman has to go. She is completely incompetant.
yasmin2
Mary E Knadler
(George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.) writes:
>
>wrote:
>
>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:55:42 -0800, Bill Bonde
<std...@mailexcite.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Scott Erb wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> In article <gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com>,
t...@told.net says...
>>> >> >
means
>>> >> >anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and
the other
>>> >> >dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft
dodger is a
>>> >> >draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Frankly, it appears that only a few folks like this "old timer"
really get
>>> >> upset about the fact that some people -- correctly in my opinion
-- dodged
>>> >> the draft to avoid an immoral war. I think that was the right
and
>>> >> honorable decision, though I understand and also respect those
who did
>>> >> what the government ordered.
>>> >>
>>> >Vietnam wasn't an immoral war any more than this Kosovo war is
immoral.
>>>
>
And of course "bombing" has done so much to help the
instability of all these nations you just mentioned.
They've only been protesting, attacking our embassies,
& burning our Flag over the bombing which sure is just
GREAT, right.
yasmin2
Mary E Knadler
(George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.) writes:
>
War.
>>>The current one is basically expending expensive military ordnance
for
>>>the sake of one side who likely will end up hating us anyway.
>>
>>What was immoral about it was the fact that our dear government
>>drafted boys illegally. I say illegal because Vietnam was never
>>declared a war at all. Korea was never declared a war either and also
>>drafted illegally. Yes, being in Kosovo is immoral. We just keep
going
>>over to other countries and pushing out attitudes off on other people
>>who don't want us there anyway.
>>
>>I think that this country needs to get our shit together and quit
>>trying to be the policemen of the world.
>>
>>Spirit Explorer
>
>I don't think the legal aspects are too important in determining the
>moral angle of Viet Nam.
>
>We are acting less in the policeman role than usual - this is a NATO
>operation, not just US. And we act not to just keep others following
>the rules, but out of selfish interests - a desire to avoid wider war
>in Europe, which would hurt our economic and security interests.
>
>I think you would be happy to know how wonderfully selfish our motives
>really are.
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>
You might have something there, George. On Fox News
tonight they were saying that Richard Holbrooke has
business interests with the Croats & Slovians so he is
therefore seen by the Serbs as someone who is against
them because of this.
I think that is disgusting that he is over there
using all this suffering to make a buck. Talk about
the "greed" of the 80's. This is "blood money" for sure.
yasmin2
Gary Lantz
knic...@rocketmail.com wrote in message
<7dr5fv$ub3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>,
> tyre...@workOMITmail.com (George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.) wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Extra! Extra!
>> >
>> >Read all about it!
>> >
>> >Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
>>
>> Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>> dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>> who hid behind her skirts.
>>
>> We don't want a President with his hands tied.
>>
>> I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
>>
>> Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>>
>> Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>> one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go.
>
>by not keeping his draft board notified of changes to his status. In
addition
>he has lied about his draft dodging over and over - to say nothing of his
>shady trip to Moscow while Soviet clients were killing U.S. troops.
>
>He'll never have the moral authority to send men into combat. But I guess
only
>a veteran would understand about that, George.
>
>Kurt Nicklas
>http://home.sprynet.com/~tiberias
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Yes, veterans may understand that the fatmen of this country that have
never been off there ass, shouldn't be talking about military strategy
either. Limbaugh, Matthews, Gingrich and Bennett have been fat most of
their lives because they shoot off their mouths instead of backing up what
they say. These chickenhawks are always trying to tell others how its done
on a lot of things they have never done.
D. Ferrel Atkins
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>>Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>>
>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
>>Hawks.
Don't leave out Pat Buchanan and Lamar Alexander -- as well
The OldTimer
Bill Bonde wrote in message <370164E9...@mailexcite.com>...
>Andrew Hall wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> Bill Bonde writes:
>>
no
>> >> good reason. Given the Serbian actions in previous wars, with
hundreds
>> >> of thousands killed as a result, it would seem that our actions
have a
>> >> reasonable chance of saving lives rather than destroying them.
>>
>> Bill> Americans. It is American lives. That's what counts.
>>
>> So non-Americans do not have a right to life?
>>
>Didn't say that. I said it wasn't MY responsibility or the responsibly
>of my country.
>
>
>
>> Personally I value the lives of civilian stranger equally,
>> no matter what country they are from.
>>
>How very infringing of you, for a libertarian.
Actually, you missed the point. This is Bill Clintons solution to the Social
Security, Medicare and Medicaid problem. The more young folks he can get
killed off in a war, the less old folks there will be to have to worry about
in the future. What a guy.
mr_antone
wrote:
>
>knic...@rocketmail.com wrote in message
><7dr5fv$ub3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>>In article <36ffa662....@news.newsguy.com>,
>> tyre...@workOMITmail.com (George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.) wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Extra! Extra!
>>> >
>>> >Read all about it!
>>> >
>>> >Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage war!
>>>
>>> Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>>> dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>>> who hid behind her skirts.
>>>
>>> We don't want a President with his hands tied.
>>>
>>> I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
>>>
>>> Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
>>>
>>> Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>>> one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go.
>>
>>Of course, Bill Clinton technically broke the law in avoiding the draft
>>by not keeping his draft board notified of changes to his status. In
>addition
>>he has lied about his draft dodging over and over - to say nothing of his
>>shady trip to Moscow while Soviet clients were killing U.S. troops.
>>
>>He'll never have the moral authority to send men into combat. But I guess
>only
>>a veteran would understand about that, George.
>>
>>Kurt Nicklas
>>http://home.sprynet.com/~tiberias
>>
>>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
>Yes, veterans may understand that the fatmen of this country that have
>never been off there ass, shouldn't be talking about military strategy
>either. Limbaugh, Matthews, Gingrich and Bennett have been fat most of
>their lives because they shoot off their mouths instead of backing up what
>they say. These chickenhawks are always trying to tell others how its done
>on a lot of things they have never done.
As a veteran, I agree with Gary's post.
mr_antone
The OldTimer
D. Ferrel Atkins wrote in message ...
>
>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>>>
>>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
>>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
>>>Hawks.
>
> Don't leave out Pat Buchanan and Lamar Alexander -- as well
>as Dick Armey, Phil Gramm (who claimed he could do more to advance
>the war by teaching in the university than slogging thru the swamps of
>SE Asia, he said, "I never even CONSDERED volunteerint").
> D. Ferrel Atkins
> And of course we should mention Super Patriot Rush
>Limbaugh who developed a pimple on his ass when duty called.
>
>
Don't leave yourself out, either.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>yasmin2:
>
>Why should any country accept occupation NATO forces.
Monitors. Yugos has previously violated agreements, had acted badly,
so they could not be trusted. The presence of UN troops in small
numbers does not threaten Yugoslavia but provides some protection to
the ethnic Albanians.
> Serbia
>would never accept them unless they are completely defeated
>militarily.
>
>We get in trouble when we ally ourselves with "bad" guys.
>We have done that too many times in the past.
>
>Why don't you listen to people on C-Span who know what
>they are talking about instead of wild-woman Albright,
>& these talking heads like Bill Kristol & those others
>that have no idea what they are talking about.
I think I get a variety of views in my travels.
>
>To try to rearrange these populations into enclaves or
>some sort of Partition or whatever will take long & hard
>& most importantly unbiased discussions & negotiations.
>
>Mrs Albright is not interested in this. A diplomat is
>supposed to do everything to bring about peaceful settlements.
>It may take years to get all these various areas living
>more peacefully. She seems to think everything has to happen
>just because she wants it to. She is not the Secretary
>of Defense.
SHe has felt that Milosovic reacts solely to force.
>
>We were able to handle the problems we had with the
>Soviet Union thru quite a number of crises without
>any bombing or even threats of bombing for over 50 years.
>The one exception being the "Missle Crisis".
>All these ethnic groups of the former Soviet block have
>gone thru a very traumatic change & we have to try to help
>them form new groupings or some arrangements to reduce
>the problems not create new wars & hatreds thru bombing
>& violence.
They could kill us all. Can't very well bomb them.
We can bomb Serbs with little risk.
So it's an option.
>
>No people want to live under occupation forces that they
>feel wil be there forever & have shown that they are biased
>toward them.
I bet the people living in KOSOVA would.
>Look how the Palestinians have to live
>every single day with Israeli occupation. Look what
>we are doing to Iraqi.....constant bombing. No fly zones
>that are totally "illegal" under international law.
Iraq invaded Kuwait. Can they complain when we act to stop their
planes from getting close to it again?
I don't think IRAQ played per international law, so maybe we need not
be required to follow it in responding to them.
>
>This Administration is going to end up with most of
>the world hating us instead of looking to us for
>help with peaceful solutions to their very difficult
>problems.
We acted in Yugoslavia with the unified support of Nato. Attacking
genocidal thugs is not all that unpopular. Viet nam? That was
unpopular. Protecting the ethnic albanians in Kosovo seems pretty
popular. SO too with IRAQ - most hate Saddam.
> They have not respected either the "Helsinki
>Accords" or the "Geneva Connvention" on these issues.
>If you going to try to run the world you do have to respect
>international law if yoo expect others to.
Is ethnic cleansing ok per international law?
>
>I never thought I would say this but I do believe Russia
>is acting much better than we are to prevent war in
>these difficult situations.
I think you are an isolationist. Right?
>
>It makes me very angry to see the Department of State
>where I once work worked come to this.
Why? It's their job. Surely you don't expect them to act only as you
want them to act.
>
>This woman has to go. She is completely incompetant.
She is not the only decision maker, of course, and her views are
widely shared. She seems to have been right on Milosovic, when she
long argued that he would never respond to words without force. Her
views are shared by the vast bulk of the foreign policy leaders of the
NATO nations. You want someone with odd ideas?
I think it's hard for us to understand foreign policy, partly because
there is little press discussion, so I don't think we know enough to
evaluate her.
>
> yasmin2
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>In <37046bfb...@news.newsguy.com> tyre...@workOMITmail.com
>(George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.) writes:
>>
>>On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:56:26 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:55:42 -0800, Bill Bonde
><std...@mailexcite.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Scott Erb wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In article <gN4M2.226$i%5.1...@news15.ispnews.com>,
>t...@told.net says...
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names
>means
>>>> >> >anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and
>the other
>>>> >> >dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft
>dodger is a
>>>> >> >draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Wow, you sure got this guy riled ;)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Frankly, it appears that only a few folks like this "old timer"
>really get
>>>> >> upset about the fact that some people -- correctly in my opinion
>-- dodged
>>>> >> the draft to avoid an immoral war. I think that was the right
>and
>>>> >> honorable decision, though I understand and also respect those
>who did
>>>> >> what the government ordered.
>>>> >>
>>>> >Vietnam wasn't an immoral war any more than this Kosovo war is
>immoral.
>>>>
>>>> The war killed about two million people. If you think that the odds
>of
>>>> our prevailing were slim, that's two million people down the drain.
>>>> Wasting two million lives is immoral, IMO.
>>>>
>>>I don't think the odds of prevailing were slim.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you thought we could win, and stop the onslaught of the evil
>>>> empire, then you would take a different view, of course.
>>>>
>>>It wasn't a one hundred percent win for the Evil Empire either.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't see Yugoslavia as likely to kill off a couple million for
>no
>>>> good reason. Given the Serbian actions in previous wars, with
>hundreds
>>>> of thousands killed as a result, it would seem that our actions
>have a
>>>> reasonable chance of saving lives rather than destroying them.
>>>>
>>>BUT it isn't a million lives here or there that are important to
>>>Americans. It is American lives. That's what counts.
>>
>>Sorry. I thought we were talking about morality.>
>>>
>>>
>>>> So I see the two as different.
>>>>
>>>So, we have the option of leaving them alone and letting them kill
>each
>>>other, a right that peoples should generally have, and not losing
>>>Americans. Or we can go in there and shoot everyone up and lose
>>>Americans and probably start a wider war. It's a no brainier.
>>
>>The issue is really about instability in Albania, Macedonia, Greece,
>>Bulgaria and Turkey, and threats to Moslem=Christian friendships.
>>
>>
>>
>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>>
>
>And of course "bombing" has done so much to help the
>instability of all these nations you just mentioned.
>
>They've only been protesting, attacking our embassies,
>& burning our Flag over the bombing which sure is just
>GREAT, right.
>
The issue is not whether they like us. The issue is what the results
of Serbs cleansing Albania will be. Milosevic decided to cleanse the
place, which threatens stability, so we decided to bomb him to stop
that. THe issue is what the refugees will do - whether they will lead
to a wider war. We think they should live in Kosovo.
mr_antone
wrote:
Kissinger stated last weekend on one of the talk shows that he agreed
with Clinton's foreign policy.
Does this mean that Kissinger is also 'incompetant' ?
>
> yasmin2
mr_antone
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>
>Bill Bonde wrote in message <370164E9...@mailexcite.com>...
>>Andrew Hall wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>> Bill Bonde writes:
>>>
>>> >> I don't see Yugoslavia as likely to kill off a couple million for
>no
>>> >> good reason. Given the Serbian actions in previous wars, with
>hundreds
>>> >> of thousands killed as a result, it would seem that our actions
>have a
>>> >> reasonable chance of saving lives rather than destroying them.
>>>
>>> Bill> BUT it isn't a million lives here or there that are important to
>>> Bill> Americans. It is American lives. That's what counts.
>>>
>>> So non-Americans do not have a right to life?
>>>
>>Didn't say that. I said it wasn't MY responsibility or the responsibly
>>of my country.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Personally I value the lives of civilian stranger equally,
>>> no matter what country they are from.
>>>
>>How very infringing of you, for a libertarian.
>
>Actually, you missed the point. This is Bill Clintons solution to the Social
>Security, Medicare and Medicaid problem. The more young folks he can get
>killed off in a war, the less old folks there will be to have to worry about
>in the future. What a guy.
why make such a silly comment? I guess to vent hatred of Clinton. Ok.
>
>One of the most enjoyable things about being 65 is
>watching the younger generations make the same
>dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
>buy the same political scams and fall for the same
>societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
>is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
>their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>
>The OldTimer
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
theauctioneer
>
> D. Ferrel Atkins wrote in message ...
> >
> >>>
> >>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
> >>>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
> >>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
> >>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
> >>>Hawks.
> >
> >as Dick Armey, Phil Gramm (who claimed he could do more to advance
> >the war by teaching in the university than slogging thru the swamps of
> >SE Asia, he said, "I never even CONSDERED volunteerint").
> > D. Ferrel Atkins
> > And of course we should mention Super Patriot Rush
> >Limbaugh who developed a pimple on his ass when duty called.
> >
> >
>
> Don't leave yourself out, either.
>
The OldTimer
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
Right on the money pardner!
The OldTimer
LQuest wrote in message
<3C6F0D39912BE824.57BC8156...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
>>>>
>>>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>>>>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
>>>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
>>>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
>>>>Hawks.
>>
>> Don't leave out Pat Buchanan and Lamar Alexander -- as well
>>as Dick Armey, Phil Gramm (who claimed he could do more to advance
>>the war by teaching in the university than slogging thru the swamps of
>>SE Asia, he said, "I never even CONSDERED volunteerint").
>> D. Ferrel Atkins
>> And of course we should mention Super Patriot Rush
>>Limbaugh who developed a pimple on his ass when duty called.
>>
>
on
>the merit of their present day ideas or actions?
>
>--Mike
In the case of Bill Clinton, and Secretary of Defense InCoherent, they don't
know what the hell they are doing. In fact, they are starting to admit that,
aren't they?
Bill Bonde
> The> Actually, you missed the point. This is Bill Clintons solution to the Social
> The> Security, Medicare and Medicaid problem. The more young folks he can get
> The> killed off in a war, the less old folks there will be to have to worry about
> The> in the future. What a guy.
>
> That would be stupid, it is the young people, paying
> over 10 times what your generation did, after adjusting
> for inflation, that are currently supporting the old
> folks welfare.
>
And it needs to stop.
Bill Bonde
>
> >George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
> >>Did you complain when Dick Cheney worked on Desert Storm?
> >>
> >>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
> >>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
> >>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
> >>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
> >>Hawks.
>
> Don't leave out Pat Buchanan and Lamar Alexander -- as well
> as Dick Armey, Phil Gramm (who claimed he could do more to advance
> the war by teaching in the university than slogging thru the swamps of
> SE Asia, he said, "I never even CONSDERED volunteerint").
> D. Ferrel Atkins
> And of course we should mention Super Patriot Rush
> Limbaugh who developed a pimple on his ass when duty called.
>
Garrett Johnson
> George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
> [...]
> >why make such a silly comment? I guess to vent hatred of Clinton. Ok.
>
> Right on the money pardner!
Of course this means that your statements, before and after, should not be
considered anything but venting.
Clue: People don't give much credibility to venting.
SuperVice
theauctioneer wrote in message <7ds3li$ra$1...@denws02.mw.mediaone.net>...
>> >On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:38:48 -0600, "The OldTimer" <t...@told.net>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>> >>>On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:59:21 -0800, Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com>
>> >>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Extra! Extra!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Read all about it!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Special Rule: Draft Dodger Presidents should not be allowed to wage
>war!
>> >>>
>> >>>Good rule. That means we should not vote for Bush or Quayle, who
>> >>>dodged by using family juice to get sweetheart protection, or Dole,
>> >>>who hid behind her skirts.
>> >>>
>> >>>We don't want a President with his hands tied.
>> >>>
>> >>>I guess you'll vote for Bob Dole again.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
>> >>>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
>> >>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
>> >>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
>> >>>Hawks.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>And a fucking idiot like you thinks that mentioning those names means
>> >>anything at all. Why the hell don't you sign up? For you and the other
>> >>dimwits like you, pal, to a veteran a draft dodger is a draft dodger is
>a
>> >>draft dodger, no fucking matter how he does it!!!!
>> >
>> >of Defense, that Gov Bush is not fit to be President.
>>
>>
>> He really didn't agree with you, basically he called you a pussy.
>>
>
>Gosh.....that's just awful! I'm sure he's shedding tears over that one!
Well, if you say so, ha ha ha ha.
SuperVice
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:17:28 -0600, "The OldTimer" <t...@told.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Don't forget that Bill Clinton is not fit to be the toilet paper that
wipes
>>a veterans ass, either!!! But you and he seem to get along well.
>
>yes. He works very hard to make the world a better place, and has the
>skills to get it done.
>
>We all owe him a lot.
>
>You seem sort of grumpy.
>
>Relax and smell the roses.
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
Ok, ok...Clinton *is* fit to be the toilet paper that wipes
a veteran's ass.
theauctioneer
LQuest <lib...@DELETETHIS.airmail.net> wrote in message
news:3C6F0D39912BE824.57BC8156...@library-proxy.airnew
s.net...
> >>>
> >>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
> >>>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
> >>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
> >>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
> >>>Hawks.
> >
> >as Dick Armey, Phil Gramm (who claimed he could do more to advance
> >the war by teaching in the university than slogging thru the swamps of
> >SE Asia, he said, "I never even CONSDERED volunteerint").
> > D. Ferrel Atkins
> > And of course we should mention Super Patriot Rush
> >Limbaugh who developed a pimple on his ass when duty called.
> >
>
on
> the merit of their present day ideas or actions?
>
hypocrites. Figure out the rest....
GHouck
[snip]
> One of the most enjoyable things about being 65 is
> watching the younger generations make the same
> dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
> buy the same political scams and fall for the same
> societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
> is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
> their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
And just why is that so enjoyable? That you were
able to finally figure out where you went wrong,
and were able to correct yourself? Or, that some
decent Liberal came along and finally gave you a clue?
Instead of basking in your feeble ability to
finally straighten yourself out after 65 years,
why not spend time explaining to the 'younger
generation' the mistakes you made, why they
were mistakes, and what you did to make up
for them?
Or, don't you think every generation has a right
to 'find themselves' and their mistakes, just as
you did? Would you have appreciated knowing that
someone was sitting off to the side, smirking and
self-satisfied, but offering no assistance?
Personally, I wouldn't be too proud of the statement
implicit in your Usenet signature ... especially if
it is 'one of the most enjoyable things' about
your 65 year-old life ... you're pretty easy to
amuse, I guess.
ghouck
GHouck
>
> Bill Bonde wrote in message <370164E9...@mailexcite.com>...
> >Andrew Hall wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>>> Bill Bonde writes:
> >>
> >> >> I don't see Yugoslavia as likely to kill off a couple million for
> no
> >> >> good reason. Given the Serbian actions in previous wars, with
> hundreds
> >> >> of thousands killed as a result, it would seem that our actions
> have a
> >> >> reasonable chance of saving lives rather than destroying them.
> >>
> >> Bill> BUT it isn't a million lives here or there that are important to
> >> Bill> Americans. It is American lives. That's what counts.
> >>
> >> So non-Americans do not have a right to life?
> >>
> >Didn't say that. I said it wasn't MY responsibility or the responsibly
> >of my country.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Personally I value the lives of civilian stranger equally,
> >> no matter what country they are from.
> >>
> >How very infringing of you, for a libertarian.
>
And obviously, after 65 years, you have not been able
to come up with a cogent response to a valid point.
Someone would have to be pretty evil (even using your
Right-Wing re-definition of the word) to contemplate
such a solution, and I'm certain you don't believe it
to be true ... so, why do you spout such nonsense?
ghouck
GHouck
>
> George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
> >On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:45:31 -0600, "The OldTimer" <t...@told.net>
>
> Right on the money pardner!
Obviously, old age does not necessarily bring wisdom with it.
In some cases, just the opposite, it seems.
ghouck
Bill Bonde
>
> In article <370271A1...@mailexcite.com>,
>
Another option might be to make the people who are older work longer and
save their own monies.
LQuest
>The OldTimer wrote:
>[snip]
>
>> One of the most enjoyable things about being 65 is
>> watching the younger generations make the same
>> dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
>> buy the same political scams and fall for the same
>> societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
>> is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
>> their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
>
>And just why is that so enjoyable? That you were
>able to finally figure out where you went wrong,
>and were able to correct yourself? Or, that some
>decent Liberal came along and finally gave you a clue?
>
>Instead of basking in your feeble ability to
>finally straighten yourself out after 65 years,
>why not spend time explaining to the 'younger
>generation' the mistakes you made, why they
>were mistakes, and what you did to make up
>for them?
Oh he need not "make up for them". Such a requirement would imply the justice
of consequences in the face of an "apology". Very non-PC. Haven't you
heard -- all that matters in what America has become is "good intentions".
Bill Clinton, et al. "feel our pain" so all is forgiven. Little Johnny got
the answer "almost right" so he deserves to pass. Bill Clinton "intends" to
"stop the genocide" (in just one of many places where it's happening).
Whether he actually does stop it is quite irrelevant. After all, his
intentions are good -- and that's really all that matters in Liberalopia.
>Or, don't you think every generation has a right
>to 'find themselves' and their mistakes, just as
>you did? Would you have appreciated knowing that
>someone was sitting off to the side, smirking and
>self-satisfied, but offering no assistance?
Oh there's plenty of assistance available. Most of it is sneered at by the
very juvenile individuals who need it most. If you REALLY want a credible
mentor -- one will emerge.
>Personally, I wouldn't be too proud of the statement
>implicit in your Usenet signature ... especially if
>it is 'one of the most enjoyable things' about
>your 65 year-old life ... you're pretty easy to
>amuse, I guess.
After being rebuked by one know-it-all "teenager" after another, it's quite
satisfying to watch them make the very mistakes they could have avoided had
they stowed their pride until such time as they earned it. The relative
handful of young folks in every generation who actually do learn from their
elders mistakes AND successes are the one thing that stands between humanity
as a whole and total oblivion for the human race. Your reaction to his sig is
clear evidence that you are not among the handful.
"The study of history is a powerful antidote to contemporary
arrogance. It is humbling to discover how many of our glib
assumptions, which seem to us novel and plausible, have been
tested before, not once but many times and in innumerable
guises; and discovered to be, at great human cost, wholly false."
--Paul Johnson (bet you don't know who this is do you).
--Mike
The OldTimer
Garrett Johnson wrote in message <3702A215...@hotmail.com>...
>The OldTimer wrote:
>
>> George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>> >why make such a silly comment? I guess to vent hatred of Clinton. Ok.
>>
>> Right on the money pardner!
>
be
>considered anything but venting.
> Clue: People don't give much credibility to venting.
>
>
I do. And I don't care what other people give credibility to.
One of the most enjoyable things about being 65 is
watching the younger generations make the same
dumb mistakes, the same stupid assumptions,
buy the same political scams and fall for the same
societal gimmicks and not having a clue as to what
is really going on. The fun is seeing that look on
their faces, when the truth finally hits them.
The OldTimer
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
><37026a2b...@news.newsguy.com>...
>>On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:17:28 -0600, "The OldTimer" <t...@told.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Don't forget that Bill Clinton is not fit to be the toilet paper that
>wipes
>>>a veterans ass, either!!! But you and he seem to get along well.
>>
>>yes. He works very hard to make the world a better place, and has the
>>skills to get it done.
>>
>>We all owe him a lot.
>>
>>You seem sort of grumpy.
>>
>>Relax and smell the roses.
>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
>
>
>Ok, ok...Clinton *is* fit to be the toilet paper that wipes
>a veteran's ass.
he took a govt unable to balance its finances, careening toward
disaster, and had the brains, guts, and political skills to turn it
around, and put us again on top of the world.
Jobs up, income up, for all income groups, wages up, at last,
productivity up, home affordability at best in decades, unemployment
best in decades, stock market at all time high, tripling in eight
years, inflation forgotten, crime plummeting, welfare rolls down a
third headed to down by half, the viability of medicare and social
security up, seemingly lethal deficits turned to surplusses.
And so on.
And STILL you complain. Are you the world's biggest ingrate, or fool,
or what?
>
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
RHA
Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
>Andrew Hall wrote:
>> The> Actually, you missed the point. This is Bill Clintons solution to the Social
>> The> Security, Medicare and Medicaid problem. The more young folks he can get
>> The> killed off in a war, the less old folks there will be to have to worry about
>> The> in the future. What a guy.
>>
>> That would be stupid, it is the young people, paying
>> over 10 times what your generation did, after adjusting
>> for inflation, that are currently supporting the old
>> folks welfare.
>>
>And it needs to stop.
Simple. Lower life expectancies to 1900 levels.
--
rha
RHA
Bill Bonde <std...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
>save their own monies.
Check February 1, 1999 cover and feature article of
Fortune Magazine. Business Week has also written that
companies dump people after they hit 40. Consider
Levis-Strauss' recent announcement of 6,000 jobs
being cut.
--
rha
Bill Bonde
not benefits. My method totally gets around this problem.
> Consider
> Levis-Strauss' recent announcement of 6,000 jobs
> being cut.
>
They are cutting people because they have to in order to protect the
company. People are not buying their jeans anymore. Well, I am. But the
hip youngsters aren't.
Matthew Devney
>
> On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:07:32 +1000, Lib...@eiu.edu (D. Ferrel Atkins ) wrote:
>
> >
> >>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>Using legal means to avoid the draft strikes me as more acceptable for
> >>>one who felt the war was wrong, that no one should go. But consider
> >>>the hypocrisy of those who supported the war - but chose to avoid it:
> >>>Armey, Cheney, Quayle, Bush, Newt. Countless other Republican Chicken
> >>>Hawks.
> >
> > Don't leave out Pat Buchanan and Lamar Alexander -- as well
> >as Dick Armey, Phil Gramm (who claimed he could do more to advance
> >the war by teaching in the university than slogging thru the swamps of
> >SE Asia, he said, "I never even CONSDERED volunteerint").
> > D. Ferrel Atkins
> > And of course we should mention Super Patriot Rush
> >Limbaugh who developed a pimple on his ass when duty called.
> >
>
> Even if ALL of this were true (which I doubt), what bearing does it have on
> the merit of their present day ideas or actions?
>
It means that they are cowards and hypocrites. That has no actual
bearing on their present-day actions, but it does have a very big effect
on my opinion of them.
--
Matthew Devney
When God made men,
She was only joking.
SuperVice
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
>On 31 Mar 1999 15:30:57 PST, "SuperVice" <su...@vice.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr. wrote in message
Who's complaining? Someone (not me) told you he wasn't
fit to be toilet paper, you took exception to that, I backed you up.
Bill Bonde
>
> In article <37013A7A...@mailexcite.com>, std...@mailexcite.com
> says...
> >
> >BUT it isn't a million lives here or there that are important to
>
> tend to consider the loss of a non-American life to be just as much a
> tragedy as the loss of an American life.
>
It is certainly a tragedy but not my responsibility. I suspect that if
you were president (God forbid) and you were forced into a war (God
forbid), you would choose the military option that expended the least
American lives even at the expense of more total lives, at least if the
choices are reasonable. (Carpet bombing Serb cities, for example,
wouldn't be reasonable.)
> However, I suspect that the kind
> of values (we are more important than they) Bill supports are one of the
> reasons we have so much war -- few people really value human life *per
> se.* I suspect someday that will slowly change, but perhaps not during
> our life time.
>
Human life is NOT the most valuable thing. EVERY single person alive
today will surely die someday. It is what we leave for generations after
us that counts. That is why the loss of life in wars that America has
been in which are in her interest is worth it.