Who Served Their Country -- A List of Top Democrats and Republicans
TRUTHSEEKER
Prominent Democrats
House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt - Served his country in uniform,
1965-71
House Minority Whip David Bonior - Served his country in uniform, 1968-72
Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle - Served his country in uniform, 1969-72
Former Vice President Al Gore - Served his country in uniform, 1969-71;
recipient of Vietnam Service Medal
Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Congressional Medal of Honor, Vietnam
Daniel Inouye... Democrat... Congressional Medal of Honor, World War Two
John Kerry... Democrat...Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Charles Rangel...Democrat... Bronze Star, Korea
Max Cleland... Democrat... Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Howell Heflin... Democrat... Silver Star
Rep. Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying
Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal.
http://www.afji.com/mags/1997/Jan/VietVets.html
Ambassador "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Democratic congressman,
Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star
and the Legion of Merit http://www.af.mil/news/Apr1997/n19970414_970430.html
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: served in combat with the U.S. Army as a staff
sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade; was wounded and
received a Purple Heart. http://www.house.gov/mthompson/bio.html
Prominent Republicans
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Majority Leader Dick Armey- avoided the draft, did not serve.
Majority Whip Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.
GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four
years
VP Cheney - several deferments, the last by marriage (in his own words, "had
other priorities than military service")
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - sought deferment to teach business ed at SW
Missouri State
And They Call Him General
Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve, too much of a republican.
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former President Ronald Reagan - served in a noncombat role. He later seems
to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real
thing.
"B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college
acting classes (Orange County Register article)
Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze
Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Why did
the Bush campaign smear him so?
Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man.
http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.html
Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/Information/bio.htm
Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross,
two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other
decorations http://www.house.gov/cunningham/about_duke.htm#Biography
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
Frank Logullo
Frank
Cisco Kid
"Frank Logullo" <frank....@dol.net> wrote in message
news:hfTg8.543$rc.4...@monger.newsread.com...
> Where's Slick Willy on your list ;)
> Frank
Omitted as is another prominent democrat. Former Senator John Glenn was a
decorated WWII/Korea Marine fighter pilot, test pilot, astronaut and true
American legend.
general_mauser@itchy+scratchy.com
Slick Willie is above AWOL Bush...who, after all, went AWOL which is
far worse than the worse innuendo you can hurl at President Clinton.
You should read what Sec. Powel wrote in his autobiography about what
President Clinton did to avoid the draft.
general_mauser@itchy+scratchy.com
George McGovern - WWI bomber pilot
N9NWO
have served, 62 democrats and 2 independents.
Most of the democrats served before Vietnam
Overall, few if any elected democrats have served
since the end of the draft.
TRUTHSEEKER <Truth...@homelandinsecurity.com> wrote...
: Who served in the military?
:
:
Mitchell Holman
That would make him one heck of a
lot older than he really is, no?
chudh
PJE
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> Frank
Clinton tried to dodge, but succumbed to an attack of conscience. You could
say he "tried dodging", but he "didn't inhale"...
Ultimately though, Clinton was willing to walk his talk. You may disagree
with him, but when push came to shove -- his behavior matched his beliefs.
It may seem strange, but that is the definition of INTEGRITY.
Clinton knew from age eleven that he wanted to be President, and he knew
what his opposition to the Vietnam war and the draft could cost him in
political life. Read his letter.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/etc/draftletter.html
Fact: Clinton openly objected to the Vietnam war and the draft.
Fact: Clinton sought and received an ROTC deferment, but he never intended
to enter officer training.
Fact: Consumed by guilt at his deceit (according to his apology letter to
ROTC), he set aside his ROTC deferment and submitted himself to the draft.
Fact: He subsequently drew a high draft lottery number and was not,
therefore, selected.
NOW let's take a look at Shrubya (we'll leave Cheney's FOUR draft deferments
for later):
GW not only had his daddy pull strings so he could cut to the front of an
unbelievably long waiting list for AirNatGuard spots (the best way to stay
out of 'Nam, and GET PAID by TAXPAYERS for it), he also got a special slot
made for him to make sure that the only combat plane he was ever rated to
fly was an F-102. Why did they need to make a special slot for GW to be an
F-102 pilot? Because F-102's had been obsoleted -- pulled from all active
military use and all new pilot training on that airframe had been CANCELED.
http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/bush102.htm
Getting himself trained on a MILITARILY USELESS F-102 in the Texas Air
National Guard at taxpayer expense was a neat trick for the AWOL
chicken-shit hypocrite GW to guarantee NO CHANCE of going to WAR, but that
wasn't enough for GW. He made sure he was de-rated for even that plane by
not showing up for his mandatory flight physicals (or maybe it was to hide
his drug use?). This all happened well before he went AWOL.
So, not only did Shrubya dodge combat service, skip out on his service
obligation and commit treason (yes, AWOL in wartime is equivalent to
TREASON), he sucked up valuable taxpayer funded military pilot training
dollars as well, and then never fulfilled his obligation to the USA. And
now, we have to hold back the urge to vomit as we watch him wave the flag of
war-patriotism.
Hmm... Clinton or Bush.
I'll take an active conscientious objector who never lied about his
opposition to the Vietnam war over a hypocritical, chicken-hawk, yellow,
lying, spoon-up-his-nose, AWOL,
hide-from-the-war-behind-my-high-powered-daddy piece of shit scumbag
anytime. What an asshole. GW doesn't even deserve the dubious distinction of
bearing his fathers last name.
Shall we talk about Cheney now? Nah...he at least Dick had the
quasi-integrity to get FOUR REAL deferments -- student (2x), Marriage (1x)
and Parental (1x). At least we didn't have to pay him a SALARY for his
non-service.
http://www.rackjite.com/14flag.htm
-pje
general_mauser@itchy+scratchy.com
no...it would not..because that's what he was
>
>
>
PJE
Jimmy Carter, Naval Academy graduate - seven years service as a Naval
officer
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<general_mauser@itchy+scratchy.com> wrote in message
news:3c841bea...@news.supernews.com...
Andrew R. Spartz
Born in 1922, he clearly missed WWI. However he was as pilot in WWII.
ARS
jan_49
<general_mauser@itchy+scratchy.com> wrote in message
news:3c843b51...@news.supernews.com...
Dang! He looks pretty good for a 107-year-old!
jan_49
to have dodged the draft.
"TRUTHSEEKER" <Truth...@homelandinsecurity.com> wrote in message
news:LjSg8.1111$L7....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
PJE
> have served, 62 democrats and 2 independents.
Your count is off. Dems are in the high 70's last I counted (late last
year), and on a PERCENTAGE basis their participation is roughly equal to
republicans, despite the fact that Dems average age is slightly younger.
More importantly, after subtracting the number of congressmen and women who
served in state national guard and reserve only positions, it turns out that
more Democrats have served in the US armed forces - you know, ARMY, NAVY,
AIR FORCE, MARINES - the ones who actually RISK GOING TO WAR.
> Most of the democrats served before Vietnam
Horseshit.
> Overall, few if any elected democrats have served
> since the end of the draft.
Bullshit.
-pje
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"N9NWO" <n9...@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:_QVg8.4391$JZ2....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
PJE
--
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<general_mauser@itchy+scratchy.com> wrote in message
news:3c841b70...@news.supernews.com...
DO TELL, PLEASE!!!!
morgan mair fheal
wounded in combat and arm permanently injured
jan_49
"PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JeXg8.15600$106.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
As if Powell would know.
PJE
http://www.mcgovernlibrary.com/george.htm
"World War II interrupted McGovern's education in 1943. He flew 35 combat
missions as a B-24 bomber pilot in Europe, earning the Distinguished Flying
Cross. After the war he returned to Dakota Wesleyan University, graduating
in 1946. McGovern then attended Garrett Seminary for one year before
enrolling at Northwestern University in Chicago, where he earned his M.A.
and Ph.D. degrees in American history and government."
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"jan_49" <tpowers_@_justice.com> wrote in message
news:W6Xg8.2509$aP6.3474@rwcrnsc54...
Unknown
<Truth...@homelandinsecurity.com> wrote:
>Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle - Served his country in uniform, 1969-72
Which country? Chicoms? North Koreans? Khmer Rouge? Canada?
Those are the only ones who take dwarfs. Alright, maybe not Canada.
Unknown
>John Glenn was a
>decorated WWII/Korea Marine fighter pilot, test pilot, astronaut and true
>American legend.
The other guys in the space program hated him. In return for running
cover for Clinton's transgressions, he was given another space walk.
Unknown
wrote:
>As a devout pacifist
When the bomb NYC with a thermonuclear weapon, will you fight then, or
do you prefer to be a slave?
Are you a real pacifist, or just a coward who prefers someone else die
for your freedom?
PJE
--
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"morgan mair fheal" <mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mair_fheal-04...@c65.ppp.tsoft.com...
>
> > : Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man.
> > : http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.html
>
> wounded in combat and arm permanently injured
Hmm...same injury as Darth Vader, just before he went over to the dark
side!!
Sorry, that was cheap. Bob Dole served honorably. Shrubya isn't fit to stand
in the same room with a guy like Bob Dole.
Come to think of it, if I had known that we'd have shrubya in office today,
I'd have voted for Dole, and for his re-election. I'd rather have eight
years of Dole than four years of shrubbie.
-pje
Pride of America
> Frank
Clinton served as president for 8 years and gave us the best 8 years
america ever had. That counts for something.
Mitchell Holman
Really. Was he in the Lafayette Escadrille then?
Or in Eddie Rickenbachers "Hat in the Ring" group?
Come to think of it, the US didn't even HAVE bombers
in WWI...............
Dave Thompson
"Mitchell Holman" <ta2...@world.att.net> wrote in message
news:hRYg8.15866$106.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Hey, bonehead - they served in Canada or Britain.
Mike Blackford
>
> As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these GOPnesses
> to have dodged the draft.
I served in 'Nam with quite a few pacifists. We called 'em medics.
--
"Right knows no boundaries, and justice no frontiers; the brotherhood of
man is not a domestic institution." 覧 Judge Learned Hand (1945)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zvxr Oynpxsbeq Fvyvpba Inyyrl, Pnyvsbeavn zv...@oynpxsbeq.pbz
Mike Blackford
>
> jan_49 wrote:
> >
> > As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these GOPnesses
> > to have dodged the draft.
>
> I served in 'Nam with quite a few pacifists. We called 'em medics.
Oh, one more point...
They were guys who knew the difference between pacifism and cowardice.
jan_49
> I think the "WWI" reference was a typo...it was WWII...
NO!!!
jan_49
"Mike Blackford" <mblac...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:3C846AD4...@spamcop.net...
> Mike Blackford wrote:
> >
> > jan_49 wrote:
> > >
> > > As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these
GOPnesses
> > > to have dodged the draft.
> >
> > I served in 'Nam with quite a few pacifists. We called 'em medics.
>
> Oh, one more point...
>
> They were guys who knew the difference between pacifism and cowardice.
Just as I'd hope there are posters who recognize sarcasm when they see it.
Got My Mind Right, Boss!
Where's Newt Gingrich?
Where's Dick Armey?
Where's all the other right wing chicken hawks?
Where's your hero and mentor, Rush Limbaugh?
Got My Mind Right, Boss!
Got My Mind Right, Boss!
bastard like Rush Limbaugh is some sort of Great American!
Right, little right wing fuckwit?
Got My Mind Right, Boss!
like your hero and mentor, Rush Limbaugh, eh?
Imagine being such a piece of shit that you admire a piece of shit
like Limbaugh!
At least a pacifist believes in something..
King Pineapple
news:6dXg8.15594$106.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> more Democrats have served in the US armed forces - you know, ARMY, NAVY,
> AIR FORCE, MARINES - the ones who actually RISK GOING TO WAR.
Tell that to the families of the nearly 6000 reservist/national guard
members who were KILLED in the Vietnam conflict. Gosh, you're dense.
Next?
--
"I think you can be an honest person and lie about any number of things"-
Dan Rather
King Pineapple
news:TKXg8.15709$106.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Bob Dole served honorably. Shrubya isn't fit to stand
> in the same room with a guy like Bob Dole.
>
> Come to think of it, if I had known that we'd have shrubya in office
today,
> I'd have voted for Dole, and for his re-election. I'd rather have eight
> years of Dole than four years of shrubbie.
Too late. You drones concluded in 1996 that Dole was "more evil" than
Clinton. The rest is history.
Cisco Kid
> John Fitzgerald Kennedy -- WWII PT-Boat Commander
> Jimmy Carter, Naval Academy graduate - seven years service as a Naval
> officer
Kennedy, unlike George Herbert Walker Bush (WWII Navy TBM Avenger bomber
pilot), saw to it his crew was rescued. No explanation what happened to
Bush's 2 crewmen when they were shot down. Only Bush survived and was
rescued.
Carter, unlike George Walker Bush (weekend warrior dropout), completed his
full obligation.
Cisco Kid
<Daschle monitor> wrote in message
news:6oh88u41n2dj2o6fg...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:53:01 GMT, "Cisco Kid" <ck...@attnet.net> wrote:
>
> >John Glenn was a
> >decorated WWII/Korea Marine fighter pilot, test pilot, astronaut and true
> >American legend.
>
>
> The other guys in the space program hated him.
Yes they did. Glenn was the Boy Scout of the the original Mercury
astronauts. While the other jocks were enjoying life in the fast lane as
celebrities and numerous transgressions with lots of young women, Glenn
routinely chastised them for their "infidelities". He obviously wasn't part
of the tailhook mentality.
Source: "The Right Stuff" by Tom Wolfe
Got My Mind Right, Boss!
TOO HONORABLE a man. Instead we needed a little snit like GWB
who would protect the Noble Corporations..
Cisco Kid
"Got My Mind Right, Boss!" <cool...@luke.com> wrote in message
news:3C84B4B3...@luke.com...
> Where's Dick Cheney?
>
> Where's Newt Gingrich?
>
> Where's Dick Armey?
>
> Where's all the other right wing chicken hawks?
>
> Where's your hero and mentor, Rush Limbaugh?
Don't forget my personal favorite - Jack Kemp, former GOP Congressman from
NY. He had a bad knee which kept him out of the service. Apparently it
wasn't bad enough to prevent him from playing 13 years in the NFL...
Cisco Kid
"King Pineapple" <saddl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:U73h8.38158$0C1.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> DNC Idiot "PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com>stupidly wrote in message
> news:6dXg8.15594$106.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > more Democrats have served in the US armed forces - you know, ARMY,
NAVY,
> > AIR FORCE, MARINES - the ones who actually RISK GOING TO WAR.
>
> Tell that to the families of the nearly 6000 reservist/national guard
> members who were KILLED in the Vietnam conflict. Gosh, you're dense.
>
>
> Next?
Now tell us how many guardsmen were killed at Kent State?
Cisco Kid
> DNC Beavis "PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:TKXg8.15709$106.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > Bob Dole served honorably. Shrubya isn't fit to stand
> > in the same room with a guy like Bob Dole.
> >
> > Come to think of it, if I had known that we'd have shrubya in office
> today,
> > I'd have voted for Dole, and for his re-election. I'd rather have eight
> > years of Dole than four years of shrubbie.
>
> Too late. You drones concluded in 1996 that Dole was "more evil" than
> Clinton. The rest is history.
No, just that we believed Clinton would indeed build that bridge to the 21st
Century. Then shrub burned it down.
Cisco Kid
> As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these
GOPnesses
> to have dodged the draft.
I also have no problem with those who chose not to serve - as long as they
don't later turn around and tell us how patriotic they were to have verbally
supported the war and criticize the opposition for also not serving but
speaking out against Vietnam. Can you say hypocrite?
The most disgusting behavior is to join up then shirk your military
obligation. Then you parade around in your veteran's cap and tell them,
"I'm da man."
Alex
>
>"PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:v2Xg8.15566$106.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> John Fitzgerald Kennedy -- WWII PT-Boat Commander
>> Jimmy Carter, Naval Academy graduate - seven years service as a Naval
>> officer
>
>Kennedy, unlike George Herbert Walker Bush (WWII Navy TBM Avenger bomber
>pilot), saw to it his crew was rescued. No explanation what happened to
>Bush's 2 crewmen when they were shot down. Only Bush survived and was
>rescued.
Wasn't there another Kennedy who actually died over the Channel, when flying what
was basically a large bomb (or at least an aircraft filled to the brim with
explosives) to France?
Alex
Keynes
>As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these GOPnesses
>to have dodged the draft.
>
>
And now, chicken hawks that they are, they wave the flag
and bravely send the troops to battle.
Lott and Dubya ought to work out a cheerleader routine
for a send off.
Gimme a "G". Gimme an "O".
Gimme an "SUK". GImme a "KER".
GO!. GO!. GO!. SUCKERS!
D.G. Porter
That would have to have been Joe Jr., John's older brother.
And while we're on the subject of WWII heroes...
Remember how most of the people of this country of ignorant twits
demonized george McGovern in 1972?
McGovern was a real WWII hero who saw a lot more real action that that
fucking "dick" Nixxon.™
Ahhhh, but don't let facts get in the way, let's all rise for the flag
salute and sing "God Bless America"!!!
Fucking God damn, 40 years wasted and we're back to clueless square
number one...
Point
>..."PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com>... wrote:
>> more Democrats have served in the US armed forces - you know, ARMY, NAVY,
>> AIR FORCE, MARINES - the ones who actually RISK GOING TO WAR.
>
>Tell that to the families of the nearly 6000 reservist/national guard
>members who were KILLED in the Vietnam conflict. Gosh, you're dense.
Considering the overall fatalities and their sources,
Lordofruit just proved the statement of relative risk
to be accurate, but one can't expect more from
someone whose best likeness is on a box of
"Lucky Charms" ...
jan_49
"Rory" <ro...@hiway.net> wrote in message
news:pf4a8ugehu13ppc2t...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 03:25:21 GMT, "PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Ultimately though, Clinton was willing to walk his talk. You may disagree
> >with him, but when push came to shove -- his behavior matched his
beliefs.
>
> So he believed it was okay to get blowjobs from his employees and
> then lie under oath about it. Ooooohhh, now THATs INTEGRITY.
>
> >It may seem strange, but that is the definition of INTEGRITY.
>
> If Clinton ever had an ounce of integrity, he would have resigned.
Huh? And cave to the obvious frenzy that started Nov. 3, 1992?
Hardly.
D.G. Porter
I remember "The McLaughlin Group" from November 22, 1992, and there they
were, predicting "a failed Presidency" and he wasn't even sworn in yet.
Then in March 1993, "Dick" Armey declared to Clinton's face that he and
the GOP was going to "ruin" him and make him a 1-termer.
These rightwing cocksuckers never got over him being elected and they
never will. That's why a braindead moron like Smirk can impress them.
Steve
> DNC Idiot "PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com>stupidly wrote in message
> news:6dXg8.15594$106.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > more Democrats have served in the US armed forces - you know, ARMY, NAVY,
> > AIR FORCE, MARINES - the ones who actually RISK GOING TO WAR.
>
> Tell that to the families of the nearly 6000 reservist/national guard
> members who were KILLED in the Vietnam conflict. Gosh, you're dense.
Just over 6000 died: 5,977 reservists and 101 National Guard members.
About 38% of draftees were sent to Vietnam. I don't know what percent
of reservists and National Guard members were sent.
jan_49
"D.G. Porter" <dgpo...@NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3C851A...@NOSPAMpacbell.net...
Absolutely.
I was listening to a radio talk show the day after that election. Someone
had already brought up the "i" word (impeachment) and even discussed the "a"
word (assassination). Unfrickin' real.
Mike Blackford
On Usenet? You gotta be kidding! ;-)
Use pseudo-hypertext flags, like </sarcasm>.
NB ... As a Vietnam vet who lost buddies, while the sons of privileged
elitists who were profiting on the war got preferential treatment, it's
a touchy subject.
Ashland Henderson
> to have dodged the draft.
Just don't expect them to reciprocate and speak well of pacifists.
Festus Hagan
> jan_49 wrote:
>>
>> "Mike Blackford" <mblac...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>> news:3C846AD4...@spamcop.net...
>> > Mike Blackford wrote:
>> > >
>> > > jan_49 wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for
>> > > > these
>> GOPnesses
>> > > > to have dodged the draft.
>> > >
>> > > I served in 'Nam with quite a few pacifists. We called 'em
>> > > medics.
>> >
>> > Oh, one more point...
>> >
>> > They were guys who knew the difference between pacifism and
>> > cowardice.
>>
>> Just as I'd hope there are posters who recognize sarcasm when they
>> see it.
>
> On Usenet? You gotta be kidding! ;-)
>
> Use pseudo-hypertext flags, like </sarcasm>.
>
> NB ... As a Vietnam vet who lost buddies, while the sons of privileged
> elitists who were profiting on the war got preferential treatment,
> it's a touchy subject.
>
Yep, especially all those dipsticks with a collage deferment that should
have been there along with everybody else.
--
"Festus"
Mike Blackford
That's about the truest thing in this thread! ;-))
King Pineapple
"Alex" <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Kh4h8.56$Il5...@castor.casema.net...
>
>
> Wasn't there another Kennedy who actually died over the Channel, when
flying what
> was basically a large bomb (or at least an aircraft filled to the brim
with
> explosives) to France?
Joe Kennedy Junior.
King Pineapple
news:RL3h8.12060$N7.28...@ruti.visi.com...
>
> Kennedy, unlike George Herbert Walker Bush (WWII Navy TBM Avenger bomber
> pilot), saw to it his crew was rescued.
How could Bush "rescue" dead crew members? Truly desperate.
> No explanation what happened to Bush's 2 crewmen when they were shot down.
Guess again. One of the crewmen bailed out and his parachute failed to open.
The other one apparently never had a chance to put a chute on. Bush won the
Distinguished Flying Cross for that mission, BTW.
King Pineapple
"Steve" <anInde...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1f4078cb.02030...@posting.google.com...
> > Tell that to the families of the nearly 6000 reservist/national guard
> > members who were KILLED in the Vietnam conflict. Gosh, you're dense.
>
> Just over 6000 died: 5,977 reservists and 101 National Guard members.
The source I saw had the numbers as 5,760 and 97. Hence the "nearly" in my
post. In any event. either number is more than the original poster would
like to see to begin with...
King Pineapple
>
>
> No, just that we believed Clinton would indeed build that bridge to the
21st
> Century.
"How naive we were"-
Leading liberal historian and two time Clinton voter Richard Goodwin,
explaining Clinton's "legacy" of failure in a column in the liberal Boston
Globe on July 4, 1999.
By the way, several of your more radical comrades here on Usenet HAVE
admitted claiming Dole WAS more evil than Slick. Truly hallucinatory.
PJE
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"jan_49" <tpowers_@_justice.com> wrote in message
news:9q0h8.4244$Yn4.7430@rwcrnsc53...
>
> "PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MlXg8.15633$106.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > I think the "WWI" reference was a typo...it was WWII...
>
>
> NO!!!
>
>
"No" what? Are you saying that it (McGovern's military service) was not in
WWII, or are you sayin that the WWI reference was not a typo? just curious.
-pje
N9NWO
Re: Who Served Their Country -- A List of Top Democrats and
> > There are 92 republicans in congress who
> > have served, 62 democrats and 2 independents.
>
> Your count is off. Dems are in the high 70's last I counted (late last
> year), and on a PERCENTAGE basis their participation is roughly equal to
> republicans, despite the fact that Dems average age is slightly younger.
>
> More importantly, after subtracting the number of congressmen and women
who
> served in state national guard and reserve only positions, it turns out
that
> more Democrats have served in the US armed forces - you know, ARMY, >NAVY,
AIR FORCE, MARINES - the ones who actually RISK GOING TO >WAR.
>
> > Most of the democrats served before Vietnam
>
> Horseshit.
>
> > Overall, few if any elected democrats have served
> > since the end of the draft.
>
> Bullshit.
I went through and counted them. 92 republicans,
64 (I was off by two) democrats and 2 independents.
Move over, there are 9 congressmen who are still
in the reserves, all republicans.
Look at the democrats. Most served in WW2 or Korea.
Ted Kennedy was an example. As soon as the draft stopped,
elected democrats stopped serving.
Alabama 9: 4R, 1D
Senator Jeff Sessions R USAR, 1973-86, CPT
Sonny Callahan R-1 USN, 1952-54, enlisted
Terry Everett R-2 USAF, 1955-59, enlisted
Robert E. 'Bud' Cramer Jr. D-5 USAR, 1976-1978, CPT
Spencer Thomas Bachus III R-6 National Guard, 1969-1971
Alaska 3: 3R
Senator Ted Stevens R USAF, 1943-1946, 1LT
Senator Frank H. Murkowski R Coast Guard, 1955-1956
Donald E. 'Don' Young R-1 USA, 1955-1957
American Samoa 1: 1D
Eni F.H. Faleomavaega D-1 USA, Vietnam Vet, 1966-1969, CPT
USAR, CPT, 1983-present
Arizona 8: 4R
Senator John S. McCain R National War College, Wash, DC, 1973-1974
BS, United States Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD, 1958
Senate Navy Liaison, 1977-1981
Pilot & Captain, United States Navy, 1958-1981,
received Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart,
and the
Distinguished Flying Cross
Prisoner of War in Vietnam, 1967-1973
Bob Stump R-3 USN, 1943-1946
John B. Shadegg R-4 Air National Guard, 1969-1975
James T. 'Jim' Kolbe R-5 USN, 1968-1969, Vietnam
USNR, 1970-1977
Arkansas 6: 1R
DR. Victor F. 'Vic' Snyder, MD R-2 USMC, 1967-1969, CPL, Thailand
California 54: 4R, 3D
C. Michael Thompson D-1 USA, 1969-1973
Inst. Army Airborne School
Fortney H. 'Pete' Stark D-13 USAF, 1955-1957
Stephen 'Steve' Horn R-38 USAR, 1954-1962, SPC-7
Gary G. Miller R-41 USA, 1967-1968
Joe Baca D-42 USA, 1966-1968,
airborne (82nd & 101st Div.)
Randall H. 'Duke' Cunningham R-51 USN, 1967-1987, CMDR
Pilot & founder of Top Gun
Duncan L. Hunter R-52 USA, 1969-1971, LT
Colorado 8: 1R
Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell R USAF, 1951-1953, enlisted
(Cpt of 1964 US Olypmic Judo Tm)
Connecticut 8: 1R, 1D
Senator Christopher J. Dodd D USAR, 1969-75
Robert Ruhl 'Rob' Simmons R-2 USA, 1965-1968
USAR, 1969-1995, COL
CIA, 1969-1979, Operations Off.
Delaware 3: 1D
Senator Thomas Richard Carper D USN, 1968-1973, Flight Officer
USNR, 1973-1991, CAPTIAN
DC 1: 0
Florida 25: 5R, 2D
Senator Bill Nelson D USA, 1968-1970
USAR, 1965-1971
F. Allen Boyd Jr. D-2 USA, 1969-71, 1LT
Clifford B. 'Cliff' Stearns R-6 USAF, 1963-67, CPT
Michael Bilirakis R-9 USAF, 1951-55
C. W. Bill Young R-10 National Guard, 1948-57
Porter J. Goss R-14 USA, 1960-1966
CIA, 1962-1971
Clandestine Services Officer
Dr David J. 'Dave' Weldon Jr., MD R-15 USA, 1981-1987, MAJ
USAR, 1987-1994
Georgia 13: 4R, 3D
Senator Joseph Maxwell 'Max' Cleland D USA, 1965-1968, CPT
Senator Zell Bryan Miller D USMC, 1953-1956, SGT
Sanford D. Bishop Jr. D-2 USA, ROTC, 1969-1971
Michael Allen 'Mac' Collins R-3 National Guard, 1964-1970 E-4
John H. 'Johnny' Isakson R-6 National Guard, 1966-1972, SSG
Bob Barr R-7 CIA, 1971-1978, Analyst
Nathan Deal R-9 USA, 1966-1968, CPT
Dr Charles W. Norwood Jr., DDS R-10 USA, 1968-1969, CPT, Vietnam
Guam 1: 0
Hawaii 4: 2D
Senator Daniel K. Inouye D USA, 1943-1947, 2LT
Senator Daniel Kahikina Akaka D USA, 1945-1947
Idaho 4: 2R
Senator Larry E. Craig R National Guard, 1971-1973,E-3
C.L. 'Butch' Otter R-1 National Guard, 1968-1973, enlisted
Illinois 22: 4R, 3D
Bobby Lee Rush D-1 USA, 1963-68, enlisted
William O. Lipinski D-3 USAR, 1961-1967
Henry John Hyde R-6 USN, 1942-1946, ENSIGN
USNR, 1946-1976, CMDR
Dr Philip M. Crane, Ph.d R-8 USA, 1954-56, CPL
Mark Steven Kirk R-10 USNR, LCmdr, present
Lane A. Evans D-17 USMC, 1969-1971, CPL
John M. Shimkus R-20 USA, 1980-1985, CPT
USAR, 1985-Present, MAJ
USA Academy Grad 1980
Indiana 12: 3R
Senator Richard G. Lugar R USN, 1957-1960, LTJG
Stephen E. 'Steve' Buyer R-5 USAR, 1980-present, LTC
USA, 1984-1987, CPT
USA, 1990-1991, MAJ (Gulf War)
The Citadel, 1980, grad
Dan L. Burton R-6 USA, 1957-1958
USAR, 1958-1962
Iowa 7: 1R, 2D
Sen Thomas 'Tom' Harkin D USN, 1962-67, LT
USNR, 1968-74, LCdmr
Leonard L. Boswell D-3 USA, 1956-76, LTC
John 'Greg' Ganske R-4 USAR, 1986-present, LTC
Kansas 6: 1R, 1D
Senator Pat Roberts R USMC, 1958-62, LT
Dennis Moore D-3 USA, 1970, USAR, 1970-1972
Kentucky 6: 3R, 1D
Edward 'Ed' Whitfield R-1 USAR, 1967-1973, 100th DIV, 1LT
Ron Lewis R-2 USN, 1972
Kenneth R. 'Ken' Lucas D-4 USAF, 1955-1957
Air Guard, 1957-1967, MAJ
Dr Ernest Lee 'Ernie' Fletcher , MD R-6 USAF, 1974-1980
Louisiana 9: 1R, 1D
William J. Jefferson D-2 USA, 1969-1975, CPT
Dr John C. Cooksey, MD R-5 USAF, 1967-1969
USAFR, 1969-1972
MAINE 4: 0
Maryland 10: 1R
Wayne T. Gilchrest R-1 USMC, 1964-1968, SGT, Vietnam
Massachusetts 12: 5D
Senator Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy D USA, 1951-1953, PFC
Senator John Forbes Kerry D USN, 1966-1970, LT
received Silver Star, Bronze Star, 3 Purple Hearts, 2 Presidential Unit
Citations and a National Defense Medal
Edward J. 'Ed' Markey D-7 USAR, 1968-73
John 'Joseph' Moakley D-9 USN, 1943-1946
William D. 'Bill' Delahunt D-10 Coast Guard Res. 1963-1971
Michigan 18: 2R, 3D
Nick Smith R-7 USAF, 1959-61, CPT
Intelligence Officer
Mike Rogers R-8 USA, CPT
FBI, Special Agent, Chicago
David Edward Bonior D-10 USAF, 1968-72, SSgt
Joseph K. 'Joe' Knollenberg R-11 USA, 1955-57, CPL
John Conyers Jr. D-14 National Guard, 1948-1950
USA, 1950-1954, USAR, 1954-1957
John D. Dingell D-16 USA, 1944-46, 2LT
Minnesota 10: 1R, 1D
James M. 'Jim' Ramstad R-3 USAR, 1968-74, LT
Collin C. Peterson D-7 National Guard, 1963-69, SSG
Mississippi 7: 2R, 1D
Senator Thad Cochran R USN, 1959-61, LTJG
Roger F. Wicker R-1 USAF, 1976-1980, CPT
USAFR, 1980-Present, LTC
Gene Taylor D-5 Coast Guard Res, 1964-1971, E-6
Missouri 11: 1R, 1D
W. Todd Akin R-2 USA, 1973-1983
Richard Andrew 'Dick' Gephardt D-3 Air National Guard, 1965-1971
Montana 3: 0
Nebraska 5: 3R
Senator Charles T. 'Chuck' Hagel R USA, 1967-68, SGT
Douglas K. 'Doug' Bereuter R-1 USA, 1963-1965, 1LT
Dr Thomas W Osborne, Ph.d R-3 USAR, 1960-1968
Wash. Redskins, 1960-1968
49ers 1959
Nevada 4: 1R
James A. 'Jim' Gibbons R-2 USAF, 1967-1971, CPT
Air Nat Guard, 1975-1991, COL
New Hampshire 4: 1R
Senator Robert C. 'Bob' Smith R USN, 1965-1967, Vietnam, ENSIGN
USNR, 1962-1965, 1967-1969
New Jersey 15: 1R, 2D
Senator Jon Stevens Corzine D USMCR, 1969-1975, SGT
William J. 'Bill' Pascrell Jr. D-8 USA/R, 1961-1967, SGT
Rodney P. Frelinghuysen R-11 USA, 1969-1971, PRIVATE
93rd Eng. BN, VIETNAM
New Mexico 5: 2R, 1D
Senator Jeff Bingaman D USAR, 1968-1974
Dr Heather A. Wilson , Ph.d R-1 USAF, 1978-1989
BS, USAF Academy, 1982.
Rhodes Scholar, 1985, Ph.d
Joseph R. 'Joe' Skeen R-2 USN, 1945-1946, enlisted
USAFR, 1945-1946
New York 33: 4R, 4D
Peter T. King R-3 USAR, 1968-73
Charles B. Rangel D-15 USA, 1948-1952
Jose E. Serrano D-16 USA, 1964-1966, MEDIC
Benjamin A. Gilman R-20 National Guard, 1981-Present, COL
USA, 1943-1945, PRIVATE
Sherwood L. 'Sherry' Boehlert R-23 USA, 1956-1958
Maurice D. Hinchey D-26 USN, 1956-1959, enlisted
John J. LaFalce D-29 USA, 1965-67
Amory 'Amo' Houghton Jr. R-31 USMC, 1944-1946, PFC
North Carolina 14: 2R, 1D
Senator Jesse Helms R USN, 1942-45
Bob R. Etheridge D-2 USA, 1965-1967, E-4
John Howard Coble R-6 Coast Guard, 1952-1956, 1977-1978
Coast Guard Res, 1960-1981, O-6
North Dakota 3 (ALL DEMS): 0
Ohio 21: 3R
Paul E. Gillmor R-5 USAF, 1965-1966, CPT
David Lee 'Dave' Hobson R-7 Air National Guard, 1958-1963
Ralph Regula R-16 USN, 1944-1946
Oklahoma 8: 3R
Senator Don Nickles R National Guard, 1970-76;
Senator James M. Inhofe R USA, 1954-1956
Wesley 'Wes' Watkins R-3 Air National Guard, 1960-1967, 2LT
Oregon 7: 1D
Peter A. Defazio D-4 USAFR
Pennsylvania 23: 5R, 5D
Senator Arlen Specter R USAF, 1951-53, 1LT
John E. Peterson R-5 USA, 1957, SPC
USAR, 1958-1964
Donald L. 'Don' Sherwood R-10 USA, 1964-1966, 1LT
Paul E. Kanjorski D-11 USA, 1960-1961
John P. Murtha D-12 USMC, 1952-55, 1966-67, COL
Joseph M. Hoeffel D-13 USAR, 1970-1976.
William J. Coyne D-14 USA, 1955-1957, Korea, SPC
Joseph R. Pitts R-16 USAF SAC, 1963-1969, CPT
George W. Gekas R-17 USA, 1953-1955, CPL
Frank R. Mascara D-20 USA, 1946-47, private
Puerto Rico 1: 0
Rhode Island 4: 1D
Senator John F. 'Jack' Reed D USA, 1967-79; USAR, 1979-91;
BS, U.S. Mil Academy, 1971;
South Carolina 8: 4R, 2D
Senator Strom Thurmond R USA, 1942-46, LTC
USAR, 1924-41, 1947-65; Maj Gen
Senator Ernest F. 'Fritz' Hollings D USA, 1942-1945, CPT
Henry Edward Brown Jr. R-1 NAT. GUARD, 1953- 1962
Floyd Davidson Spence R-2 USNR, 1952-1988, CAPTAIN
(Korean Conflict, 1952-1954)
Lindsey O. Graham R-3 Air Nat Guard, 1989-present, MAJ
John McKee Spratt Jr. D-5 USA, 1969-1971, CPT
South Dakota 3: 2D
Senator Thomas A. 'Tom' Daschle D USAF, 1969-1972, 1LT
Senator Tim P. Johnson D USA, 1969;
Tennessee 11: 4R, 2D
William Lewis 'Bill' Jenkins R-1 USA, 1960-1962, LT MPs
John James 'Jimmy' Duncan Jr. R-2 USAR, 1970-1987, CPT
William V. 'Van' Hilleary R-4 USAF, 1982-1984, CPT
USAFR, 1984-present, MAJ
Robert N. 'Bob' Clement D-5 USA, 1969-1971, LT
National Guard, 1971-present, LTC
Edward G. 'Ed' Bryant R-7 USA, 1970-1978, CPT
John S. Tanner D-8 USN, 1968-1972, LT
NAT. GUARD, 1974-present, LTC
Texas 32: 2R, 6D
James 'Jim' Turner D-2 USA, 1978, CPT
Samuel Robert 'Sam' Johnson R-3 USAF, 1951-1979, COL
Ralph Moody Hall D-4 USN, 1942-1945, LT
Dr Ronald E. 'Ron' Paul, MD R-14 USAF, 1963-1965, CPT
Air National Guard, 1965-1968
Silvestre Reyes D-16 USA, 1966-1968, SGT (E-5)
Charles A. 'Charlie' Gonzalez D-20 Air National Guard, 1969-1975, E-6
Jonas 'Martin' Frost III D-24 USAR, 1966-1972
Solomon P. Ortiz D-27 USA, 1960-1962, E-5
Utah 5: 2R
Senator Robert F. Bennett R National Guard, 1957-61, 1LT
James V. Hansen R-1 USN, 1951-1955
Vermont 3: 1I
Senator James M. 'Jim' Jeffords I USN, 1956-1959
USNR, 1959-present, CAPTAIN
Virgin Islands 1: 0
Virginia 13: 4R, 1D, 1I
Senator John W. Warner R USN, 1944-1946
USMC, 1950-1952
Edward L. 'Ed' Schrock R-2 USN, 1964-1988, CAPTAIN
Robert C. 'Bobby' Scott D-3 USAR, 1970-74
National Guard, 1974-76
Virgil H. Goode Jr. I-5 National Guard, 1969-1975.
Frank Rudolph Wolf R-10 USA, 1962-1963, USAR, 1963-1967
Thomas M. 'Tom' Davis III R-11 USA, 1971-1972, 2LT
National Guard, 1972-1979
USAR, 1972-1979
Washington 11: 1R
Doc Hastings R-4 USAR, 1963-1969, SPC
West Virginia 5: 1D
Alan B. Mollohan D-1 USAR, 1970-1983, CPT
Wisconsin 11: 2D
Senator Herbert H. 'Herb' Kohl D USAR, 1958-1964
Gerald D. 'Jerry' Kleczka D-4 Air National Guard, 1963-1969
Wyoming 3: 2R
Senator Craig Thomas R USMC, 1955-1959, LT
Senator Michael B. Enzi R Air National Guard, 1968-1973
http://www.vote-smart.org/index.phtml
532: 92R, 64D, 2I
PJE
--
x-no-archive: yes
"OrionCA" <ori...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8uq98ukke1aqq8j4g...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 03:25:21 GMT, "PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Fact: Clinton openly objected to the Vietnam war and the draft.
> >
> >Fact: Clinton sought and received an ROTC deferment, but he never
intended
> >to enter officer training.
> >
> >Fact: Consumed by guilt at his deceit (according to his apology letter to
> >ROTC), he set aside his ROTC deferment and submitted himself to the
draft.
> >
>
> Fact: By the time he "set aside his ROTC deferment", it was already
> common knowledge in Washington that Nixon had decided that the draft
> requirements for the year had been met and there would be no further
> call-ups that year. Didn't matter WHAT number you drew, high or low,
> you weren't going in.
Hmm...what year are you talking about? I was there. My older clasmates were
being drafted right up through '75. Got any references to back this up, or
are you inventing on-the-fly?
>
> The apology letter was written 2 months after he was due to appear at
> the University of Arkansas to join his ROTC class and about 3 mohths
> after he moved to Washington to finish his course work at Georgetown.
> It was only written after repeated inquiries from University of
> Arkansas officials as to where the hell he was.
If so, I don't suppose you'd mind providing supporting reference links, as I
did -- would you?
>
> In 1973, 'consumed with guilt", and running for Congress, he tried to
> have the letter destroyed, btw. Politically inconvenient to have the
> world know you are a lying, yellow coward.
If so, I don't suppose you'd mind providing supporting reference links, as I
did -- would you?
-pje
PJE
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Mike Blackford" <mblac...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:3C853E10...@spamcop.net...
> Ashland Henderson wrote:
> >
> > "jan_49" <tpowers_@_justice.com> wrote in message
news:<z8Xg8.2712$Hf7....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...
> > > As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these
GOPnesses
> > > to have dodged the draft.
> >
> > Just don't expect them to reciprocate and speak well of pacifists.
>
> That's about the truest thing in this thread! ;-))
>
Amen!!!
-pje
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being
attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger."
- Herman Goering
Nazi Air Force (Luftwaffe) commander at the Nuremberg Trials
Keynes
>On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 03:25:21 GMT, "PJE" <priv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Ultimately though, Clinton was willing to walk his talk. You may disagree
>>with him, but when push came to shove -- his behavior matched his beliefs.
>
>So he believed it was okay to get blowjobs from his employees and
>then lie under oath about it. Ooooohhh, now THATs INTEGRITY.
>
>>It may seem strange, but that is the definition of INTEGRITY.
>
>If Clinton ever had an ounce of integrity, he would have resigned.
>
>
>
>Rory
>
If you had any trace of integrity, you'd stop
whoring your sorry fat ass for the GOPenises.
Ken [NY
breathlessly shared the following:
>On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 03:42:23 GMT, "jan_49" <tpowers_@_justice.com> wrote:
>
>>As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these GOPnesses
>>to have dodged the draft.
>>
>>
>And now, chicken hawks that they are, they wave the flag
>and bravely send the troops to battle.
>
>Lott and Dubya ought to work out a cheerleader routine
>for a send off.
You are one sick pig. People dying overseas and all you can do
is lie for political gain.
Ken (NY)
--
Chairbeing,
Department of Redundancy Department
Assistant Grand Poobah, Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
___________________________________
http://www.kintera.org/frf/home/default.asp?ievent=1351
http://www.danielfaulkner.com/
Q: What is the difference between a
Harley and a Hoover?
A: The position of the dirt bag.
Ken [NY
breathlessly shared the following:
>On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 03:42:23 GMT, "jan_49" <tpowers_@_justice.com>
wrote:
>
>>As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these
GOPnesses
>>to have dodged the draft.
>>
>>
>And now, chicken hawks that they are, they wave the flag
>and bravely send the troops to battle.
>
>Lott and Dubya ought to work out a cheerleader routine
>for a send off.
You are one sick pig. People dying overseas and all you can do
Michael Newton
that a president with no military record is as capable of launching
pointless bombing raids in the Third World as any veteran--but I can't abide
the thought of Smirk enlisting, then going AWOL for a year or more with no
punishment for his crime, lying about it all through the presidential
campaign, and now posing as some sort of "American hero" for the phony "war
on terrorism," spouting insane drivel about a mythical "Axis of Evil" while
his ties to the Bin Laden family are ignored by "conservative patriots."
The bottom line: He's scum.
mn
Mitchell Holman
Funny how many people are coming to the above conclusion......
Mike Blackford
>
<snip>
> You are one sick pig. People dying overseas and all you can do
> is lie for political gain.
You have obviously misaddressed this comment. I doubt Pretzeldent
Busholini and his brownshorts read this newsgroup. If you need further
assistance correctly addressing this ligitimate complaint to Mr. Bush,
Mr. Lott, Mr. DeLay, or another of this fascist cabal, I'd be glad to
help.
Mike Blackford
Well, there's a limit to the amount of time people can hold their breath
while trying to believe a reich-wing turd is a Baby Ruth bar.
Cisco Kid
> DNC Drone"Crisco Kid" <ck...@attnet.net> wrote in message
> news:RL3h8.12060$N7.28...@ruti.visi.com...
>
> >
> > Kennedy, unlike George Herbert Walker Bush (WWII Navy TBM Avenger bomber
> > pilot), saw to it his crew was rescued.
>
> How could Bush "rescue" dead crew members? Truly desperate.
How did he know they were dead? No sign of them anywhere. Did he see them
bail out or did he bail and simply leave them to their own fate? Did the
rescue sub search for them?
> > No explanation what happened to Bush's 2 crewmen when they were shot
down.
>
> Guess again. One of the crewmen bailed out and his parachute failed to
open.
He doesn't even know which one bailed out, if any. The other crewman didn't
have a parachute. Perhaps he was killed when the AAA shell hit the plane?
> The other one apparently never had a chance to put a chute on. Bush won
the
> Distinguished Flying Cross for that mission, BTW.
During the mission. He continued to press the attack while taking heavy
fire. Once they were hit and got into trouble he (and perhaps one of the
two other crewmen) bailed out. Or did they? Did either of them receive any
decorations or was Bush simply looking out for number one again?
Bush's recollection of the event in 1987 differed substantially from his
wartime accounting of it:
In a 1987 account of the World War II incident, which differed from his
earlier versions, Bush told about the incident on television. He claimed
that during a bombing run against a Japanese radio installation on ChiChi
Island, his plane was hit and engulfed in flames and that he ordered his
crew to bail out. He said one did, but his parachute failed. Bush claimed
the other crewman did not answer the intercom, so he assumed that the
crewman was critically wounded or dead.
Bush, who was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for action prior to the
crash, said that even though the plane was in flames, he managed to fly it
on to the target and drop his bombs before he bailed out. Bush admitted,
however, that in his rush to get out of the Avenger, he pulled the parachute
rip cord too quickly and was gashed on his forehead when he hit the tail of
the plane.
Chester Mierzejewski, an old war buddy of Bush, who said he was angered by
the "false assertions" made by candidate Bush when describing the incident,
gave a different account.
After 44 years of silence, Mierzejewski, who also was awarded the
Distinguished Flying Cross, told the New York Post that Bush had abandoned
his crew to death when there was another choice.
He said he was approximately 100 feet in front of Bush's plane as the turret
gunner for Squadron Commander Douglas Melvin's plane, "so close he could see
in the cockpit" of Bush's bomber. Mierzejewski's close wartime buddy was one
of the two crew members in Bush's plane.
According to Mierzejewski, the squadron was in a tight-formation bombing
raid against a Japanese radio installation on an island reported to be
heavily fortified. He saw "a puff of smoke" come from Bush's plane which
quickly disappeared and was certain only one man parachuted from the plane
and that it was Bush, the pilot.
Mierzejewski said the Avenger torpedo bomber was engineered so that it could
successfully crash land on water and that Bush doomed his own crew by
bailing out and leaving the bomber out of control.
Other World War II veterans also expressed concern about Bush parachuting
out of the aircraft. "He had a moral obligation to put that plane in the
water in an emergency landing," Robert Flood, a former B-17 bombardier told
the press. "He violated the primary rule for a captain of a multi-crew
aircraft: The pilot never leaves the airplane with anybody in it."
Pete Brandon, a Marine Corps Avenger pilot, who also served in the South
Pacific, said an Avenger pilot had two choices: Set the plane down in the
water or hold it steady until the two crewmen could prepare to jump.
"In an Avenger, only the pilot wore a parachute," Brandon said. "The two
crewmen wore harnesses. If the order came to bail out, they had to take
chest parachutes from a shelf and strap them on - and bail out. The Avenger
was very unstable. The pilot had to be at the controls the whole time or it
would go right over on its back."
Steve Hart, then Vice President Press Secretary, described Mierzejewski's
account as absurd. Hart said, "The Vice President has told us time and time
again what happened that day. To suggest that the account is inaccurate is
absurd."
What is absurd is the conflicting or missing reports of exactly what
happened to Bush's two crew members. According to the Post, the intelligence
report on the loss of Bush's plane in September, 1944 notes that it had
become "standard doctrine" for VT 51, Bush's bomber squadron, "to make
bombing runs on targets near water so as to retire over the water. This puts
pilot and crew in position for water rescue in event of forced landing . . .
"
The same document reports, without attribution, that "smoke and flame"
engulfed Bush's engine, and that "Bush and one other person were seen to
bail out. The chute of the other person who bailed out did not open."
The report was signed by Melvin and an intelligence officer, Lt. Martin E.
Kilpatrick. Contrary to normal military procedure, the report was not dated
and Navy archives were unable to supply a subsequently completed report.
Gunner Lawrence Mueller, who lives in Milwaukee, flew on the ChiChi Jima
mission. When asked who had the best view, he replied unhesitatingly: "The
turret gunner in Melvin's plane."
Mueller's recollections, jogged by a log book that he kept, support
Mierzejewski's account. And it was noted that Bush's plane was the only one
from the squadron that did not return. Mueller told the Post, "No parachute
was sighted except Bush's when the plane went down." He also said no one
mentioned a fire engulfing Bush's plane or he would have noted it in the log
book.
The Finback, the sub which picked up Bush from his raft in the water, made
no report of a fire on Bush's plane, but did comment on his crew: "Bush
stated that he failed to see his crew's parachutes and believed they had
jumped when the plane was still over ChiChi Jima, or they had gone down with
the plane."
About six hours later, the Finback picked up another pilot, James W.
Beckman, from the USS Enterprise, who stated that it was known that only one
man had parachuted from Bush's plane. "This decided us to discontinue any
further search of that area . . ."
Although the heart of Bush's story about the incident remains the same,
Mierzejewski is adamant Bush's account is not the truth and blames Bush for
the abandonment and deaths of both men.
"I think he could have saved those lives, if they were alive. I don't know
that they were, but at least they had a chance if he had attempted a water
landing," Mierzejewski said.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/story46.htm
> Next?
Just another question mark in the Bush family's long history of questionable
judgments.
Cisco Kid
"Ken [NY" <ken4b...@usa.SPAM.net> wrote in message
news:d65c8ugbmsna7jllo...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:24:11 -0600, Keynes <Key...@spam.eathlink.net>
> breathlessly shared the following:
>
> >On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 03:42:23 GMT, "jan_49" <tpowers_@_justice.com> wrote:
> >
> >>As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these
GOPnesses
> >>to have dodged the draft.
> >>
> >>
> >And now, chicken hawks that they are, they wave the flag
> >and bravely send the troops to battle.
> >
> >Lott and Dubya ought to work out a cheerleader routine
> >for a send off.
>
> You are one sick pig. People dying overseas and all you can do
> is lie for political gain.
> Ken (NY)
It would help if you "explained" why you think the poster is "lying".
john q public
reservist and Guard members that were "Called up" entered into one of the
regular branches, or did they only fight one weekend a month and two weeks
in the summer?
"King Pineapple" <saddl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:TBch8.39388$0C1.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Keynes
>On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:24:11 -0600, Keynes <Key...@spam.eathlink.net>
>breathlessly shared the following:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 03:42:23 GMT, "jan_49" <tpowers_@_justice.com> wrote:
>>
>>>As a devout pacifist, I wholeheartedly support the right for these GOPnesses
>>>to have dodged the draft.
>>>
>>>
>>And now, chicken hawks that they are, they wave the flag
>>and bravely send the troops to battle.
>>
>>Lott and Dubya ought to work out a cheerleader routine
>>for a send off.
>
> You are one sick pig. People dying overseas and all you can do
>is lie for political gain.
> Ken (NY)
Who's the sick pig here? Show me the lie.
Neither man served, yet both were cheerleaders in college.
It galls me that chicken hawks can be such careless hypocrites.
They have no honor. Wave the flag, and collect the money.
Lott in particular is a vicious character assassin and a lying harlot.
Partisanship aside, these guys are poison to democracy,
and dangerous to your health. Now deny that, horrible hog.
Ben Dover
Keynes <Key...@spam.eathlink.net> wrote in message
news:34pd8ug774k3s28c8...@4ax.com...
Jason Pope
A while back I posted a relatively complete list of all the senators and
which of them had done military service.
"Truthseeker" seems to avoid those people that did service but goe
against his "get dubya" agenda!
ciao
Jason
--
"I come from a family in which many of us are predisposed to mental
disorders"
Formica
___________________________________________________________
Ken
> >>And now, chicken hawks that they are, they wave the flag
> >>and bravely send the troops to battle.
> >>
> >>Lott and Dubya ought to work out a cheerleader routine
> >>for a send off.
> >
> > You are one sick pig. People dying overseas and all you can do
> >is lie for political gain.
> > Ken (NY)
>
> Who's the sick pig here? Show me the lie.
> Neither man served, yet both were cheerleaders in college.
Well Bush was in the National Guard. Which in any sane book is far
better than a guy who ran to England to hide from his draft notice, and was
PROVEN to have used political influence to have the order quashed on his
WORTHLESS promise to go into the ROTC. If you can't see the difference here
it reflects far worse on you than anyone else.
Keynes
Got a bit of a stutter there?
Cisco Kid
"Ken" <k...@atlantic.net> wrote in message
news:8PHh8.7$uE....@news1.atlantic.net...
You've got to be kidding! Clinton was a conscientious objector and spoke
out against the war then AND now. Frankly, I think he would have enjoyed
the military immensely. All those tailhook parties where you can openly
grope and harass women? He broke his promise to enroll in ROTC. He was
also invited to England as a Rhodes scholar. Would you pass up on that
opportunity?
Shrub, on the other hand, cost the taxpayers pretty close to a million bucks
to train as a pilot - a job for which he was barely qualified. He raised
his right hand and took an oath to defend the Constitution against all
enemies, foreign and domestic. Then later forgot the meaning of that oath
and walked away - disappeared into thin air. Never mind we were at war and
had hundreds of other pilots sitting in POW camps. Shrub simply had better
things to do. Nowadays he boasts how the military taught him the importance
of committment and showing up every day... He broke his officer's oath.
See any difference?
One of them broke a legal committment and,
committed a serious crime and,
is a total hypocrite.
It's not the one who went to England.
Mitchell Holman
>
>"Keynes" <Key...@spam.eathlink.net> wrote in message
>news:34pd8ug774k3s28c8...@4ax.com...
>
>> >>And now, chicken hawks that they are, they wave the flag
>> >>and bravely send the troops to battle.
>> >>
>> >>Lott and Dubya ought to work out a cheerleader routine
>> >>for a send off.
>> >
>> > You are one sick pig. People dying overseas and all you can do
>> >is lie for political gain.
>> > Ken (NY)
>>
>> Who's the sick pig here? Show me the lie.
>> Neither man served, yet both were cheerleaders in college.
>
>
> Well Bush was in the National Guard.
And what poor sop had to go to Vietnam because
Bush jumped the queue and took his place in the Guard?
>Which in any sane book is far
>better than a guy who ran to England
Getting a Rhodes scholarship rather requires going
to England. But then, Republicans wouldn't know about
Rhodes Scholarships. And as for Bushes and their
"C-average" grades, well, the less said the better.
to hide from his draft notice, and was
>PROVEN to have used political influence to have the order quashed on his
>WORTHLESS promise to go into the ROTC. If you can't see the difference here
>it reflects far worse on you than anyone else.
It wasn't Clinton who supported the war while pulling
every string to avoid it, and now cloaks himself in mantle
of "war veteran" who is "standing tall for America".
Mitchell Holman
"For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed
one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times."
George Bush, in a history lesson that omits the unpleasant
reality of Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima, and the whole Second
World War. 2/18/02.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/02/print/20020218-2.html
Liam Devlin
Clinton traveled to England because he'd won a Rhodes Scholarship, which
used to be considered an honor, and that's where Oxford is. "If you
can't see the difference here ..."
debby
> Where's Dick Cheney?
>
> Where's Newt Gingrich?
>
> Where's Dick Armey?
>
> Where's all the other right wing chicken hawks?
>
> Where's your hero and mentor, Rush Limbaugh?
>
> Frank Logullo wrote:
> >
> > Where's Slick Willy on your list ;)
> > Frank
They're busy with the Shadow Government right now. Want to leave a
message???? Debby S.<sarg...@infi.net> Secretary to the Shadow
Government......
Ken
"Liam Devlin" <Lia...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3C87F519...@optonline.net...
> > Well Bush was in the National Guard. Which in any sane book is far
> > better than a guy who ran to England to hide from his draft notice, and
was
> > PROVEN to have used political influence to have the order quashed on his
> > WORTHLESS promise to go into the ROTC. If you can't see the difference
here
> > it reflects far worse on you than anyone else.
> Clinton traveled to England because he'd won a Rhodes Scholarship, which
> used to be considered an honor, and that's where Oxford is. "If you
> can't see the difference here ..."
SMALL PROBLEMS for ya. First, Chicken Willie never quite finished that
degree at Oxford DID he? He had dropped out of Oxford when he got his Orders
to report and then went not only back to England, whilst his roomie used
influence to have a REPUBLICAN Senator get him out of the orders to report
to Fort Bragg for basic training, BUT he went to Moscow. So cut the happy
hose shit. The difference *I* see is that the level of bullshit in this
thread keeps growing higher by the minute.
Mike Blackford
If you knew anything about the Rhodes Scholarship, you'd know that the
honoree's rarely attend Oxford for more than a year or two years.
AWARD CRITERIA:
Superior scholastic achievement
Energy to use one's talents to the fullest
Capacity for strong moral, intellectual and political leadership
Integrity of character
Interest in and respect for fellow human beings
It's impossible to imagine George W. Bush even coming close to
qualifying.
Former President William Jefferson Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar at
Oxford between October 1968 and June 1970. He was a member of University
College and followed the BPhil course in Politics. In 1994 he received
an honorary DCL by Diploma from the University of Oxford. When he
received a draft notice in 1969 he enrolled in the Army Reserve Officers
Training Corps (ROTC) at the University of Arkansas Law School. He made
himself available for the draft but was never called up because he
received a high number in the draft lottery held that year.
In the fall of 1970 Clinton entered Yale Law School. While at Yale he
met Hillary Rodham, a Wellesley College graduate from suburban Chicago.
Together they worked for George McGovern's presidential campaign during
the summer and fall of 1972. The following year they graduated from law
school. Clinton returned to Arkansas to teach at the University of
Arkansas School of Law.
Festus Hagan
With the "Integrity of character" part, it's very hard to imagine any
politician even coming close to qualifying. Especially the lawyers.
--
"Festus"
Ken
"Caster" <Cru...@hopus.net> wrote in message
news:3sph8u050gk8njh4b...@4ax.com...
> >> Clinton traveled to England because he'd won a Rhodes Scholarship,
which
> >> used to be considered an honor, and that's where Oxford is. "If you
> >> can't see the difference here ..."
> > SMALL PROBLEMS for ya. First, Chicken Willie never quite finished
that
> >degree at Oxford DID he? He had dropped out of Oxford when he got his
Orders
> >to report and then went not only back to England, whilst his roomie used
> >influence to have a REPUBLICAN Senator get him out of the orders to
report
> >to Fort Bragg for basic training, BUT he went to Moscow. So cut the happy
> >hose shit. The difference *I* see is that the level of bullshit in this
> >thread keeps growing higher by the minute.
> Going to Moscow is Poppy Bush's contribution to the Republican
> disinformation machine.
Careful, Clinton HIMSELF discussed his trip to Russia. You really need
to pay attention boy. He discussed it several places, including with a Peter
Jennings.
Mitchell Holman
>
>"Liam Devlin" <Lia...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:3C87F519...@optonline.net...
>
>> > Well Bush was in the National Guard. Which in any sane book is far
>> > better than a guy who ran to England to hide from his draft notice, and
>was
>> > PROVEN to have used political influence to have the order quashed on his
>> > WORTHLESS promise to go into the ROTC. If you can't see the difference
>here
>> > it reflects far worse on you than anyone else.
>
>> Clinton traveled to England because he'd won a Rhodes Scholarship, which
>> used to be considered an honor, and that's where Oxford is. "If you
>> can't see the difference here ..."
>
> SMALL PROBLEMS for ya. First, Chicken Willie never quite finished that
>degree at Oxford DID he? He had dropped out of Oxford when he got his Orders
>to report and then went not only back to England, whilst his roomie used
>influence to have a REPUBLICAN Senator get him out of the orders to report
>to Fort Bragg for basic training, BUT he went to Moscow.
What roomie? What Republican Senator?
So cut the happy
>hose shit.
Hose shit?