The Lynching of Dan Rather
Alric Knebel
is a free newsletter. . . .
------------------------------------------------
THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
By Greg Palast
September 21, 2004 00:29
"It's that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of the tough
questions," the aging American journalist told the British television
audience.
In June 2002, Dan Rather looked old, defeated, making a confession he dare
not speak on American TV about the deadly censorship -- and
self-censorship -- which had seized US newsrooms. After September 11, news
on the US tube was bound and gagged. Any reporter who stepped out of line,
he said, would be professionally lynched as un-American.
"It's an obscene comparison," he said, "but there was a time in South Africa
when people would put flaming tires around people's necks if they dissented.
In some ways, the fear is that you will be necklaced here. You will have a
flaming tire of lack of patriotism put around your neck." No US reporter
who values his neck or career will "bore in on the tough questions."
Dan said all these things to a British audience. However, back in the USA,
he smothered his conscience and told his TV audience: "George Bush is the
President. He makes the decisions. He wants me to line up, just tell me
where."
During the war in Vietnam, Dan's predecessor at CBS, Walter Cronkite, asked
some pretty hard questions about Nixon's handling of the war in Vietnam.
Today, our sons and daughters are dying in Bush wars. But, unlike Cronkite,
Dan could not, would not, question George Bush, Top Gun Fighter Pilot, Our
Maximum Beloved Leader in the war on terror.
On the British broadcast, without his network minders snooping, you could
see Dan seething and deeply unhappy with himself for playing the game.
"What is going on," he said, "I'm sorry to say, is a belief that the public
doesn't need to know -- limiting access, limiting information to cover the
backsides of those who are in charge of the war. It's extremely dangerous
and cannot and should not be accepted, and I'm sorry to say that up to and
including this moment of this interview, that overwhelmingly it has been
accepted by the American people. And the current Administration revels in
that, they relish and take refuge in that."
Dan's words had a poignant personal ring for me. He was speaking on
Newsnight, BBC's nightly current affairs program, which broadcasts my own
reports. I do not report for BBC, despite its stature, by choice. The
truth is, if I want to put a hard, investigative report about the USA on the
nightly news, I have to broadcast it in exile, from London. For Americans
my broadcasts are stopped at an electronic Berlin wall.
Indeed, Dan is in hot water for a report my own investigative team put in
Britain's Guardian papers and on BBC TV years ago. Way back in 1999, I
wrote that former Texas Lt. Governor Ben Barnes had put in the fix for
little George Bush to get out of 'Nam and into the Air Guard.
What is hot news this month in the USA is a five-year-old story to the rest
of the world. And you still wouldn't see it in the USA except that Dan
Rather, with a 60 Minutes producer, finally got fed up and ready to step out
of line. And, as Dan predicted, he stuck out his neck and got it chopped
off.
Is Rather's report accurate? Is George W. Bush a war hero or a privileged
little Shirker-in-Chief? Today I saw a goofy two page spread in the
Washington Post about a typewriter used to write a memo with no significance
to the draft-dodge story. What I haven't read about in my own country's
media is about two crucial documents supporting the BBC/CBS story. The
first is Barnes' signed and sworn affidavit to a Texas Court, from 1999, in
which he testifies to the Air Guard fix -- which Texas Governor George W.
Bush, given the opportunity, declined to challenge.
And there is a second document, from the files of US Justice Department,
again confirming the story of the fix to keep George's white bottom out of
Vietnam. That document, shown last year in the BBC television documentary,
"Bush Family Fortunes," correctly identifies Barnes as the bag man even
before his 1999 confession.
At BBC, we also obtained a statement from the man who made the call to the
Air Guard general on behalf of Bush at Barnes' request. Want to see the
document? I've posted it at:
http://www.gregpalast.com/ulf/documents/draftdodgeblanked.jpg
This is not a story about Dan Rather. The white millionaire celebrity can
defend himself without my help. This is really a story about fear, the fear
that stops other reporters in the US from following the evidence about this
Administration to where it leads. American news guys and news gals,
practicing their smiles, adjusting their hairspray levels, bleaching their
teeth and performing all the other activities that are at the heart of US TV
journalism, will look to the treatment of Dan Rather and say, "Not me,
babe." No questions will be asked, as Dan predicted, lest they risk
necklacing and their careers as news actors burnt to death.
"Bush Family Fortunes," the one-hour documentary taken from Greg Palast's
BBC investigative reports, including the story of George Bush and Texas Air
Guard, can be viewed, in part, at http://www.gregpalast.com/bff-dvd.htm
To receive more of Palast's investigative reports, sign up at
http://www.gregpalast.com/contact.cfm
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Bob Curtin
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all, this
>is a free newsletter. . . .
>------------------------------------------------
>THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
>On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
>By Greg Palast
>
>September 21, 2004 00:29
>
>"It's that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of the tough
>questions," the aging American journalist told the British television
>audience.
>
What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
public.
>In June 2002, Dan Rather looked old, defeated, making a confession he dare
>not speak on American TV about the deadly censorship -- and
>self-censorship -- which had seized US newsrooms. After September 11, news
>on the US tube was bound and gagged. Any reporter who stepped out of line,
>he said, would be professionally lynched as un-American.
>
What a pantload. Rather is losing his mind. What is happening is
that he and the rest of the old media is being held to the standard
that it had years ago, but threw away when ratings and the bottom line
became more important than the truth. Rather and the old media has
become little more than a bunch of Michael Moores.
>"It's an obscene comparison," he said, "but there was a time in South Africa
>when people would put flaming tires around people's necks if they dissented.
>In some ways, the fear is that you will be necklaced here. You will have a
>flaming tire of lack of patriotism put around your neck." No US reporter
>who values his neck or career will "bore in on the tough questions."
>
Listen to this moron. He got caught trying to dupe the public with
forgeries and now he's mewling like a little girl that he's being
persecuted.
>Dan said all these things to a British audience. However, back in the USA,
>he smothered his conscience and told his TV audience: "George Bush is the
>President. He makes the decisions. He wants me to line up, just tell me
>where."
>
>During the war in Vietnam, Dan's predecessor at CBS, Walter Cronkite, asked
>some pretty hard questions about Nixon's handling of the war in Vietnam.
>Today, our sons and daughters are dying in Bush wars. But, unlike Cronkite,
>Dan could not, would not, question George Bush, Top Gun Fighter Pilot, Our
>Maximum Beloved Leader in the war on terror.
>
Oh Waaaahhh! I'M A VICTIM!!!!! PULEEEEEASE!!!
>On the British broadcast, without his network minders snooping, you could
>see Dan seething and deeply unhappy with himself for playing the game.
>
>"What is going on," he said, "I'm sorry to say, is a belief that the public
>doesn't need to know -- limiting access, limiting information to cover the
>backsides of those who are in charge of the war. It's extremely dangerous
>and cannot and should not be accepted, and I'm sorry to say that up to and
>including this moment of this interview, that overwhelmingly it has been
>accepted by the American people. And the current Administration revels in
>that, they relish and take refuge in that."
>
No Dan, they're limiting information to THE TRUTH! You can't go
playing fast and loose anymore. Live with it.
This is an "investigative report? What a fucking joke. No wonder he
likes Dan Rather. He's the same.
Bob Curtin
http://www.swiftvets.com/
http://www.apttax.com/
http://www.vnsfvetakerry.com/
http://www.freemuslims.org/
___________________________
"Both egalitarians and those who
think they have a blanket superiority
to the rest of us have missed the point.
We are all superior to each other -- and
are all inferior to each other. It all
depends on when and what. The economic
disasters of socialism and communism
come from assuming a blanket superiority
of those who want to run a whole economy."
Thomas Sowell
Alric Knebel
"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ktktk0p85e7st5dsu...@4ax.com...
Oh, here we go. The old "liberal media" bullshit. And the stuff about
Moore. I think I'll just skip the rest of it.
Alric
Bob Curtin
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Go right ahead. The truth hurts. Your comfortable little world of
Nitwitness News at six and 11 is being threatened and you don't like
it. Too bad.
Alric Knebel
Even the truth can be stomped out. It'll pass. Every now and then the
nation goes through some sick stuff like this, where the extreme right wing
are taking names and wanting to make people pay all the time for questioning
the government and refusing to conform. The only thing wrong with the
current story is that it was so vigorously attacked. CBS needs to line
their ducks up, that's all, and stick to their guns. They broadcast the
story because they believed it, and for no other reason. Hell, people who
question the documents don't necessarily question what the documents claim.
I've heard the debunkers debunked. I believe that what the documents
purport is true, regardless of whether those particular documents prove it.
And I assume by this threat to the 6 o'clock news you mean Fox, well, Fox
tell the loons what they want to hear. No matter how many ratings they get,
they're still in a minority and no one really takes them seriously. It's
all shouters and polemicists. It'll pass and we'll look at this current era
like we now do the McCarthy era. I'm not worried. Nations sometimes get
sick. It's our turn now. Again.
Alric
bernard spilman
How the fuck would you know anything about the
truth, you lying sack of shit? Just spew out your
hateful bullshit and NEVER provide any facts of
proof.
WS
Bob Curtin
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
You, sir, and thousands of other dupes, are the reason Dan Rather and
60 Minutes has played so loose and fast with the truth for so long.
You unflinchingly accept total bullshit as truth and live your life
around it.
Live in oblivion if you wish.
Bob Curtin
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Oh, and by the way, I don't get my news from a single source. I read
newspapers from all over the world, Watch news on the networks and on
cable - each with their own biases. From that I see that the truth
usually hides somewhere at the hub.
Try it. It may keep you from being a nitwit.
Bob Curtin
Kind of like you did on this post? You don't even know me, nor do you
know my education and background, yet you see fit to comment on my
veracity. Hmm.
I'll just consider the source.
Steve Canyon
This is pretty funny... It's CBS that has lost credibility, not Fox.
The big question now is how much credibility the Kerry campaign has
lost because they had hitched their wagon to Rather's story.
--
"I have the right to vote against him in the next
election."
--Zepp Jamieson, 1996
http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=4l6trj%24iq4%40news.snowcrest.net
"I will throw my vote away on a 3rd party candidate."
--Zepp Jamieson,2000/02/15
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=38a8c8d3.16637502%40news.snowcrest.net
"You just doubled the value of my vote."
--Zepp Jamieson, 2000/04/25
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3905050c.66719349%40news.snowcrest.net
[...] if we decide elections by square miles, my vote is worth
200 Los Angeles votes.
--Zepp Jamieson, 2000-12-18
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=tbit3tc60l1a6c1mj89b4o285anpe11kqa%404ax.com&oe=UTF-8
"Legal resident alien Zepp Jamieson, a Canadian who has lived
in the United States for more than 30 years, said his status
changed dramatically with the Patriot Act."
http://www.mtshastanews.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2003/June/04-1695-news11.txt
Legal resident aliens aren't allowed to vote, Jamieson.
Why were you lying and pretending to be a citizen?
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Alric Knebel wrote:
> I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all, this
> is a free newsletter. . . .
> ------------------------------------------------
> THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
> On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
> By Greg Palast
According to news reports, CBS News is about to admit that the documents
are fake. Probably later today.
I think we should now go back to ALL these left-wingers--ALL of
them--and demand an apology from them.
Starting with the ones on this NG.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
bernard spilman
When you walk into a large pile of shit, its not
much of a deductive leap to determine that it
came from an asshole.
WS
Bob Curtin
<bspilma...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
Oh, isn't that cute! Did you think that up all by yourself, or did
you consult with the rest of the retards in the home? Tighten up
those straps, there re-re!
Alric Knebel
And here you are, posting a lot of crap from the Swiftvets. Yeah, you've
got credibility, pal. You're to interested in facts. You're interested only
in character assassination. This whole Bush-ANG thing is a direct result of
this Swiftboat campaign. It's a smear. No one believes it, and if the
media would quit making it a story, it would go away. The swiftboat
veterans have harmed the integrity of Vietnam veterans. So, sir, you keep
on with your polemical bullshit and pretend it's all coming from one side.
Alric
Alric Knebel
"Steve Canyon" <Steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote in message
news:4rmtk018quetuegg0...@4ax.com...
Did they lose credibility? Not with me. I think the story's true. I think
something might have happened behind the scenes that has made them back
away, but I think they believed it at the time.
Alric
Alric Knebel
You're a fool, I know that just from this post. Your education or your
background will have nothing to do with your veracity. People better
educated than you can have an opposing point of view. Their education will
not be an influencing factor for you. Right? So why should WE consider
your education. Hell, one of your primary sources -- Matt Drudge -- has
nothing but a high school education.
And as for this claim of yours that you read sources from all over the
world: you know, then, that Michael Moore's view of Bush is pretty much what
the rest of the world holds. The whole Iraq war thing -- the rest of the
world was on to it before the Americans were. I read The Guardian, myself,
for an alternative point of view. Everything else is pretty much the party
line here in the U. S.
Alric
Alric Knebel
"Steven D. Litvintchouk" <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:s%B3d.7452$n16....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
> Alric Knebel wrote:
>
>> I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all,
>> this is a free newsletter. . . .
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
>> On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
>> By Greg Palast
>
> According to news reports, CBS News is about to admit that the documents
> are fake. Probably later today.
>
> I think we should now go back to ALL these left-wingers--ALL of them--and
> demand an apology from them.
>
> Starting with the ones on this NG.
I don't think so. Whether the documents aren't fake is irrelevant. What
they documented was true. There are gaps missing in the record. Release
the real records and let's see what comes up.
And apologies? Fuck no. Not until the right-wing loons apologize for the
eight years of harassing Clinton. I think this is what you call "payback."
Alric
Bob Curtin
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
The SWIFTBOAT VETERANS have harmed the integrity of Vietnam veterans?
You, sir, are a class-A idiot. John Kerry came home after a few
months and few scratches and promptly joined Hanoi Jane and a bunch of
other commies in denouncing his fellow soldiers as baby-killers,
rapists and murderers and claiming that they performed all manner of
other atrocities.
Half of my friends and my brother went to Vietnam and not only did
they not participate in any of the things claimed by Kerry, they never
saw any of it. Kerry is a lying sack of shit. I have lived in
Massachusetts all of my life and have known this scumbag since he got
into state politics. He's a gigolo, a liar and a man with absolutely
no principles. Anyone who would use his fellow servicemen in that way
to further his political career isn't fit to lick dogshit off the
bottom of their boots.
Your problem is you have no fucking clue about what you're shooting
your mouth off. Go back to watching the Nitwitness News. It's
certainly on a par with your intelligence.
bernard spilman
So you ARE a liar and an asshole. I don't care if you
got a GED or not. It shows.
WS
Roedy Green
>What is hot news this month in the USA is a five-year-old story to the rest
>of the world. And you still wouldn't see it in the USA except that Dan
>Rather, with a 60 Minutes producer, finally got fed up and ready to step out
>of line. And, as Dan predicted, he stuck out his neck and got it chopped
>off.
The irony is Americans don't realize their news is just as censored as
in Communist Russia, only done so slickly they don't notice.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
Bob Curtin
Well, I've got documents right here in my hands that say you're a
homosexual child molester. They're fake, but that's irrelevent. What
they document is true.
Bob Curtin
<bspilma...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
Ooooh, poor little re-re. Whats the matter, did I hurt your feelings?
Roedy Green
wrote or quoted :
>What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
>the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
>fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
>the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
>public.
What bugs me in the way everyone keeps acting as if it has already
been proved the CBS documents were forgeries. They have NOT.
One of two things have to happen.
1. Somebody recreates the CBS document showing how it was forged.
Nobody has even come close so far to reproducing it.
2. Somebody has to collect print samples of all plausible typewriters
that Killian could have used and show none of them match the CBS
document. This has only partly been done.
Oddly, neither CBS nor the Republicans have bothered with these two
tests. Instead they bat their gums with lies about superscripts, MS
Word, and proportional spacing. You can't prove a forgery by repeated
assertion.
bernard spilman
"Steven D. Litvintchouk" <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:s%B3d.7452$n16....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
> > I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all,
this
> > is a free newsletter. . . .
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
> > On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
> > By Greg Palast
>
> According to news reports, CBS News is about to admit that the documents
> are fake. Probably later today.
>
> I think we should now go back to ALL these left-wingers--ALL of
> them--and demand an apology from them.
>
> Starting with the ones on this NG.
OK, come by the house, you'll get your
apology.
WS
Bob Curtin
<loo...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:19:28 -0400, Bob Curtin <vze2...@verizon.net>
>wrote or quoted :
>
>>What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
>>the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
>>fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
>>the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
>>public.
>
>What bugs me in the way everyone keeps acting as if it has already
>been proved the CBS documents were forgeries. They have NOT.
>
>One of two things have to happen.
>
>1. Somebody recreates the CBS document showing how it was forged.
>Nobody has even come close so far to reproducing it.
>
Wrong. I have downloaded the PDF file of one document from the net
(somewhere on this group in one of the threads dealing with this
subject is the link) and I duplicated it with Microsoft Word - except
for the signature - in fifteen minutes On the other hand, NOBODY has
been able to duplicate any of the documents using 1972 technology.
>2. Somebody has to collect print samples of all plausible typewriters
>that Killian could have used and show none of them match the CBS
>document. This has only partly been done.
>
Nobody will. Have you actually taken the time to look at any of these
documents? It's obvious to even the most casual observer that they
weren"t typed. They were printed on a modern printer - not even a
dot-matrix, but an ink-jet or laser printer.
>Oddly, neither CBS nor the Republicans have bothered with these two
>tests. Instead they bat their gums with lies about superscripts, MS
>Word, and proportional spacing. You can't prove a forgery by repeated
>assertion.
You've apparently not checked the flap on this very deeply. There's
been a concerted effort by hundreds of people to duplicated these
documents using IBM Selectrics and other typewriters, but to no avail
- and I mean nobody has even gotten close.
Steve Canyon
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<LOL> Better check out that kool aid.....
> I think
>something might have happened behind the scenes that has made them back
>away, but I think they believed it at the time.
>
>Alric
>
The thing that happened behind the scenes is that they realized that
they got snookered and that they cannot cover it up.
Now we have to wait and see how much damage the Kerry people did to
their campaign by hooking on to the forged memos.
Steve Canyon
<loo...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:38:44 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
><al...@bellsouth.net> wrote or quoted :
>
>>What is hot news this month in the USA is a five-year-old story to the rest
>>of the world. And you still wouldn't see it in the USA except that Dan
>>Rather, with a 60 Minutes producer, finally got fed up and ready to step out
>>of line. And, as Dan predicted, he stuck out his neck and got it chopped
>>off.
>
>The irony is Americans don't realize their news is just as censored as
>in Communist Russia, only done so slickly they don't notice.
The real irony is that a moron like Roedy Green has no idea what he's
talking about.
Steve Canyon
<loo...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:19:28 -0400, Bob Curtin <vze2...@verizon.net>
>wrote or quoted :
>
>>What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
>>the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
>>fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
>>the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
>>public.
>
>What bugs me in the way everyone keeps acting as if it has already
>been proved the CBS documents were forgeries. They have NOT.
No, actually, somebody would have to prove that they are not forgeries
for them to be of any concern.
That isn't going to happen.
Alric Knebel
Yes, they did. They look like desperate propagandists. These veterans have
now made it possible to say bad things about veterans. I know. I'm now
saying bad things about veterans. Why don't you ask someone else besides
right-wing loons what they think.
> You, sir, are a class-A idiot. John Kerry came home after a few
> months and few scratches and promptly joined Hanoi Jane and a bunch of
> other commies in denouncing his fellow soldiers as baby-killers,
> rapists and murderers and claiming that they performed all manner of
> other atrocities.
>
> Half of my friends and my brother went to Vietnam and not only did
> they not participate in any of the things claimed by Kerry, they never
> saw any of it. Kerry is a lying sack of shit. I have lived in
> Massachusetts all of my life and have known this scumbag since he got
> into state politics. He's a gigolo, a liar and a man with absolutely
> no principles. Anyone who would use his fellow servicemen in that way
> to further his political career isn't fit to lick dogshit off the
> bottom of their boots.
Well, how many people does that add up to, your brother and half your
friends? Kerry was repeating what OTHER veterans told him. He wasn't
citing things he himself saw. And, you, with all that name-calling all the
time. And the only thing you're capable of thinking you just revealed.
> Your problem is you have no fucking clue about what you're shooting
> your mouth off. Go back to watching the Nitwitness News. It's
> certainly on a par with your intelligence.
You've got no credibility. At all. You're probably young and stupid.
You're definitely a trendy fuck.
Alric
Alric Knebel
"Roedy Green" <loo...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:vk1uk0hvda0rmeiab...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:38:44 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote or quoted :
>
>>What is hot news this month in the USA is a five-year-old story to the
>>rest
>>of the world. And you still wouldn't see it in the USA except that Dan
>>Rather, with a 60 Minutes producer, finally got fed up and ready to step
>>out
>>of line. And, as Dan predicted, he stuck out his neck and got it chopped
>>off.
>
> The irony is Americans don't realize their news is just as censored as
> in Communist Russia, only done so slickly they don't notice.
This is true, to a degree. What makes it hard to spot is, the GOVERNMENT
doesn't do the censuring, so there's no OFFICIAL, institutional censorship.
It just so happens that the same people who own the government own the
broadcasting and printing services. Since corporations have pretty much
bought up the entire political process, self-interest keeps the two entities
linked: government foists the interests of corporations, so the corporate
press -- out of self interest -- takes it easy on the government. The
results aren't good and you get a skewed view of anything that questions the
motives of corporations, which also means you're questioning the motives of
government. Liberalism is then represented by the fringe voices, while the
real issues -- quality of life issues -- forwarded by liberalism are kept
out of the political arena. Then bozos like this Bob Curtin thinks he knows
something. If he was really as wide-read as he claimed, he wouldn't even be
taking the stance he's taking. His ideas are the culmination of a lifetime
of selective broadcasting. He's got all the clichés and none of the facts.
Alric Knebel
Alric Knebel
"Roedy Green" <loo...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in message
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:19:28 -0400, Bob Curtin <vze2...@verizon.net>
> wrote or quoted :
>
>>What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
>>the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
>>fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
>>the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
>>public.
>
> What bugs me in the way everyone keeps acting as if it has already
> been proved the CBS documents were forgeries. They have NOT.
>
> One of two things have to happen.
>
> 1. Somebody recreates the CBS document showing how it was forged.
> Nobody has even come close so far to reproducing it.
>
> 2. Somebody has to collect print samples of all plausible typewriters
> that Killian could have used and show none of them match the CBS
> document. This has only partly been done.
>
> Oddly, neither CBS nor the Republicans have bothered with these two
> tests. Instead they bat their gums with lies about superscripts, MS
> Word, and proportional spacing. You can't prove a forgery by repeated
> assertion.
You're right, and I'm waiting for proof that they're forgeries. So far,
they've merely allowed the assertion to stand without any defense. I think
CBS has been cowed by the government for being anti-Bush. It is a BROADCAST
medium and therefore requires a license from the FCC. I want to see proof.
I've heard two different things about these typewriters, and one is that the
superscript capability was widely used in the government at the time. But
in these kowtowing times, it's not likely to happen.
Alric
Alric Knebel
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:22:36 GMT, Roedy Green
> <loo...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:19:28 -0400, Bob Curtin <vze2...@verizon.net>
>>wrote or quoted :
>>
>>>What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
>>>the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
>>>fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
>>>the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
>>>public.
>>
>>What bugs me in the way everyone keeps acting as if it has already
>>been proved the CBS documents were forgeries. They have NOT.
>>
>>One of two things have to happen.
>>
>>1. Somebody recreates the CBS document showing how it was forged.
>>Nobody has even come close so far to reproducing it.
>>
> Wrong. I have downloaded the PDF file of one document from the net
> (somewhere on this group in one of the threads dealing with this
> subject is the link) and I duplicated it with Microsoft Word - except
> for the signature - in fifteen minutes On the other hand, NOBODY has
> been able to duplicate any of the documents using 1972 technology.
First, I think you're lying. Second, you don't have access to 1972
technology. I haven't heard of anyone TRYING to duplicate it, but I have
heard that the arguments about fonts and spacing were inaccurate. Who are
you going to believe? YOU are going to believe according to your partisan
politics. Here's a solution. Bush's record has gaps. Let the Pentagon
release ALL of the records. Then the whole thing will be settled.
>>2. Somebody has to collect print samples of all plausible typewriters
>>that Killian could have used and show none of them match the CBS
>>document. This has only partly been done.
>>
> Nobody will. Have you actually taken the time to look at any of these
> documents? It's obvious to even the most casual observer that they
> weren"t typed. They were printed on a modern printer - not even a
> dot-matrix, but an ink-jet or laser printer.
Oh, horseshit. You can't tell that unless you have ACTUAL documents in your
presense. The ones I saw looked to me as if they HAD been typed, in that
the baseline was uneven. In computer-generated documents, the baseline is
perfect, as it is on the lines of this post.
>>Oddly, neither CBS nor the Republicans have bothered with these two
>>tests. Instead they bat their gums with lies about superscripts, MS
>>Word, and proportional spacing. You can't prove a forgery by repeated
>>assertion.
>
> You've apparently not checked the flap on this very deeply. There's
> been a concerted effort by hundreds of people to duplicated these
> documents using IBM Selectrics and other typewriters, but to no avail
> - and I mean nobody has even gotten close.
Well, I've heard the opposite. You're an exaggerating ass.
Alric
Alric Knebel
"OrionCA" <Ori...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7rsuk0dqqan51u0s1...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:34:20 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Go right ahead. The truth hurts. Your comfortable little world of
>>> Nitwitness News at six and 11 is being threatened and you don't like
>>> it. Too bad.
>>
>>Even the truth can be stomped out. It'll pass. Every now and then the
>>nation goes through some sick stuff like this, where the extreme right
>>wing
>>are taking names and wanting to make people pay all the time for
>>questioning
>>the government and refusing to conform. The only thing wrong with the
>>current story is that it was so vigorously attacked.
>
> should have been able to see through.
Bullshit. You're just jumping on it with a display of more confidence than
your abilities warrant.
Alric
Alric Knebel
"Steve Canyon" <Steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
< editted >
>
> "I have the right to vote against him in the next
> election."
>
> --Zepp Jamieson, 1996
> http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=4l6trj%24iq4%40news.snowcrest.net
< editted >
What's this obsession you have for Zepp Jamieson?
Alric
Alric Knebel
>>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:21:29 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
>>> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:38:44 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
>>>>> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all,
>>>>>>this
>>>>>>is a free newsletter. . . .
>>>>>>------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
>>>>>>On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
>>>>>>By Greg Palast
>>>>>>
>>>>>>September 21, 2004 00:29
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"It's that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of the
>>>>>>tough
>>>>>>questions," the aging American journalist told the British television
>>>>>>audience.
>>>>>>
>>>>> the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
>>>>> fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
>>>>> the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
>>>>> public.
>>>>>
>>>>>>dare
>>>>>>not speak on American TV about the deadly censorship -- and
>>>>>>self-censorship -- which had seized US newsrooms. After September 11,
>>>>>>news
>>>>>>on the US tube was bound and gagged. Any reporter who stepped out of
>>>>>>line,
>>>>>>he said, would be professionally lynched as un-American.
>>>>>>
>>>>> What a pantload. Rather is losing his mind. What is happening is
>>>>> that he and the rest of the old media is being held to the standard
>>>>> that it had years ago, but threw away when ratings and the bottom line
>>>>> became more important than the truth. Rather and the old media has
>>>>> become little more than a bunch of Michael Moores.
>>>>
>>>>Oh, here we go. The old "liberal media" bullshit. And the stuff about
>>>>Moore. I think I'll just skip the rest of it.
>>>>
>>>>Alric
>>>>
>>> Nitwitness News at six and 11 is being threatened and you don't like
>>> it. Too bad.
>>
>>Even the truth can be stomped out. It'll pass. Every now and then the
>>nation goes through some sick stuff like this, where the extreme right
>>wing
>>are taking names and wanting to make people pay all the time for
>>questioning
>>the government and refusing to conform. The only thing wrong with the
>>their ducks up, that's all, and stick to their guns. They broadcast the
>>story because they believed it, and for no other reason. Hell, people who
>>question the documents don't necessarily question what the documents
>>claim.
>>I've heard the debunkers debunked. I believe that what the documents
>>purport is true, regardless of whether those particular documents prove
>>it.
>>
>>And I assume by this threat to the 6 o'clock news you mean Fox, well, Fox
>>tell the loons what they want to hear. No matter how many ratings they
>>get,
>>they're still in a minority and no one really takes them seriously. It's
>>all shouters and polemicists. It'll pass and we'll look at this current
>>era
>>like we now do the McCarthy era. I'm not worried. Nations sometimes get
>>sick. It's our turn now. Again.
>>
>>Alric
>>
> newspapers from all over the world, Watch news on the networks and on
> cable - each with their own biases. From that I see that the truth
> usually hides somewhere at the hub.
>
> Try it. It may keep you from being a nitwit.
>
> Bob Curtin
If you weren't a nitwit, you wouldn't be posting this crap below.
Steve Canyon
Well, for one thing, I don't think much of his attempts to influence
the US elections while pretending to be a US citizen.
--
"I have the right to vote against him in the next
election."
--Zepp Jamieson, 1996
http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=4l6trj%24iq4%40news.snowcrest.net
"I will throw my vote away on a 3rd party candidate."
Johnny Lingo
"Alric Knebel" <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:4BL3d.51418$zT6....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Sure, let's also have Kerry release ALL of his records and the many
questions of his service will also be answered!
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
> I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all, this
> is a free newsletter. . . .
> ------------------------------------------------
> THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
> On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
> By Greg Palast
>
> September 21, 2004 00:29
>
> "It's that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of the tough
> questions," the aging American journalist told the British television
> audience.
>
> In June 2002, Dan Rather looked old, defeated, making a confession he dare
> not speak on American TV about the deadly censorship -- and
> self-censorship -- which had seized US newsrooms. After September 11, news
> on the US tube was bound and gagged. Any reporter who stepped out of line,
> he said, would be professionally lynched as un-American.
Leave it to Rather to pathetically try and offer this for his absolutely
completely unprofessional and unethical journalistic behavior. Rather's a washed
up political hack and now a national laughingstock who's been exposed for the
charlatan that he is. I give him 30 days max before CBS drop-kicks him.
Jim
>
>
> "It's an obscene comparison," he said, "but there was a time in South Africa
> when people would put flaming tires around people's necks if they dissented.
> In some ways, the fear is that you will be necklaced here. You will have a
> flaming tire of lack of patriotism put around your neck." No US reporter
> who values his neck or career will "bore in on the tough questions."
>
> Dan said all these things to a British audience. However, back in the USA,
> he smothered his conscience and told his TV audience: "George Bush is the
> President. He makes the decisions. He wants me to line up, just tell me
> where."
>
> During the war in Vietnam, Dan's predecessor at CBS, Walter Cronkite, asked
> some pretty hard questions about Nixon's handling of the war in Vietnam.
> Today, our sons and daughters are dying in Bush wars. But, unlike Cronkite,
> Dan could not, would not, question George Bush, Top Gun Fighter Pilot, Our
> Maximum Beloved Leader in the war on terror.
>
> On the British broadcast, without his network minders snooping, you could
> see Dan seething and deeply unhappy with himself for playing the game.
>
> "What is going on," he said, "I'm sorry to say, is a belief that the public
> doesn't need to know -- limiting access, limiting information to cover the
> backsides of those who are in charge of the war. It's extremely dangerous
> and cannot and should not be accepted, and I'm sorry to say that up to and
> including this moment of this interview, that overwhelmingly it has been
> accepted by the American people. And the current Administration revels in
> that, they relish and take refuge in that."
>
> Dan's words had a poignant personal ring for me. He was speaking on
> Newsnight, BBC's nightly current affairs program, which broadcasts my own
> reports. I do not report for BBC, despite its stature, by choice. The
> truth is, if I want to put a hard, investigative report about the USA on the
> nightly news, I have to broadcast it in exile, from London. For Americans
> my broadcasts are stopped at an electronic Berlin wall.
>
> Indeed, Dan is in hot water for a report my own investigative team put in
> Britain's Guardian papers and on BBC TV years ago. Way back in 1999, I
> wrote that former Texas Lt. Governor Ben Barnes had put in the fix for
> little George Bush to get out of 'Nam and into the Air Guard.
>
> What is hot news this month in the USA is a five-year-old story to the rest
> of the world. And you still wouldn't see it in the USA except that Dan
> Rather, with a 60 Minutes producer, finally got fed up and ready to step out
> of line. And, as Dan predicted, he stuck out his neck and got it chopped
> off.
>
> Is Rather's report accurate? Is George W. Bush a war hero or a privileged
> little Shirker-in-Chief? Today I saw a goofy two page spread in the
> Washington Post about a typewriter used to write a memo with no significance
> to the draft-dodge story. What I haven't read about in my own country's
> media is about two crucial documents supporting the BBC/CBS story. The
> first is Barnes' signed and sworn affidavit to a Texas Court, from 1999, in
> which he testifies to the Air Guard fix -- which Texas Governor George W.
> Bush, given the opportunity, declined to challenge.
>
> And there is a second document, from the files of US Justice Department,
> again confirming the story of the fix to keep George's white bottom out of
> Vietnam. That document, shown last year in the BBC television documentary,
> "Bush Family Fortunes," correctly identifies Barnes as the bag man even
> before his 1999 confession.
>
> At BBC, we also obtained a statement from the man who made the call to the
> Air Guard general on behalf of Bush at Barnes' request. Want to see the
> document? I've posted it at:
> http://www.gregpalast.com/ulf/documents/draftdodgeblanked.jpg
>
> This is not a story about Dan Rather. The white millionaire celebrity can
> defend himself without my help. This is really a story about fear, the fear
> that stops other reporters in the US from following the evidence about this
> Administration to where it leads. American news guys and news gals,
> practicing their smiles, adjusting their hairspray levels, bleaching their
> teeth and performing all the other activities that are at the heart of US TV
> journalism, will look to the treatment of Dan Rather and say, "Not me,
> babe." No questions will be asked, as Dan predicted, lest they risk
> necklacing and their careers as news actors burnt to death.
>
> "Bush Family Fortunes," the one-hour documentary taken from Greg Palast's
> BBC investigative reports, including the story of George Bush and Texas Air
> Guard, can be viewed, in part, at http://www.gregpalast.com/bff-dvd.htm
>
> To receive more of Palast's investigative reports, sign up at
> http://www.gregpalast.com/contact.cfm
>
> ============================================
> If you would like to have your e-mail address removed from this mailing
> list. Cut and paste the following URL into your browser address bar. This
> will automatically remove from the mailing list and you will receive no
> further mailings.
> http://www.gregpalast.com/emailremove.cfm?id=38139
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
> "Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:3pmtk0h98ldjlh6ah...@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:21:29 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> > <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:ktktk0p85e7st5dsu...@4ax.com...
> >>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:38:44 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> >>> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all,
> >>>>this
> >>>>is a free newsletter. . . .
> >>>>------------------------------------------------
> >>>>THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
> >>>>On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
> >>>>By Greg Palast
> >>>>
> >>>>September 21, 2004 00:29
> >>>>
> >>>>"It's that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of the
> >>>>tough
> >>>>questions," the aging American journalist told the British television
> >>>>audience.
> >>>>
> >>> What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
> >>> the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
> >>> fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
> >>> the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
> >>> public.
> >>>
> >>>>In June 2002, Dan Rather looked old, defeated, making a confession he
> >>>>dare
> >>>>not speak on American TV about the deadly censorship -- and
> >>>>self-censorship -- which had seized US newsrooms. After September 11,
> >>>>news
> >>>>on the US tube was bound and gagged. Any reporter who stepped out of
> >>>>line,
> >>>>he said, would be professionally lynched as un-American.
> >>>>
> >>> What a pantload. Rather is losing his mind. What is happening is
> >>> that he and the rest of the old media is being held to the standard
> >>> that it had years ago, but threw away when ratings and the bottom line
> >>> became more important than the truth. Rather and the old media has
> >>> become little more than a bunch of Michael Moores.
> >>
> >>Oh, here we go. The old "liberal media" bullshit. And the stuff about
> >>Moore. I think I'll just skip the rest of it.
> >>
> >>Alric
> >>
> > Go right ahead. The truth hurts. Your comfortable little world of
> > Nitwitness News at six and 11 is being threatened and you don't like
> > it. Too bad.
>
> Even the truth can be stomped out. It'll pass. Every now and then the
> nation goes through some sick stuff like this, where the extreme right wing
> are taking names and wanting to make people pay all the time for questioning
> the government and refusing to conform.
"Extreme right wing"? BWAHAHAHAHA. It's so hilarious to watch the left (the
supposed defender of the nation's rights) quickly excuse any transgression when
a member of their team crosses the line. They closed their eyes many, many times
with the hapless clown clinton and now they're doing the same with Rather. It's
no wonder they've been booted from power and remain the idea-less, agenda-less,
leadership-less goofball party that they are today.
Jim
jiml
Steve Canyon wrote:
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:34:20 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>Even the truth can be stomped out. It'll pass. Every now and then the
>nation goes through some sick stuff like this, where the extreme right wing
>are taking names and wanting to make people pay all the time for questioning
>the government and refusing to conform. The only thing wrong with the
>current story is that it was so vigorously attacked. CBS needs to line
>their ducks up, that's all, and stick to their guns. They broadcast the
>story because they believed it, and for no other reason. Hell, people who
>question the documents don't necessarily question what the documents claim.
>I've heard the debunkers debunked. I believe that what the documents
>purport is true, regardless of whether those particular documents prove it.
>
>And I assume by this threat to the 6 o'clock news you mean Fox, well, Fox
>tell the loons what they want to hear. No matter how many ratings they get,
>they're still in a minority and no one really takes them seriously. It's
>all shouters and polemicists. It'll pass and we'll look at this current era
>like we now do the McCarthy era. I'm not worried. Nations sometimes get
>sick. It's our turn now. Again.
>
>Alric
>
This is pretty funny... It's CBS that has lost credibility, not Fox.
The big question now is how much credibility the Kerry campaign has
lost because they had hitched their wagon to Rather's story.
Not much, actually. The Kerry campaign never had much to lose. The Swift Boat vets have stomped Kerry. The Rather fiasco has back-paged Kerry. The guy's just a clown like Rather now...flopping around and getting no attention whatsoever, with cause. Heck, even Rather is getting more headlines than Kerry is. (snicker)
Jim
jiml
bernard spilman wrote:
> "Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:puntk0t19k4r871ni...@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:36:36 GMT, "bernard spilman"
> > <bspilma...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > >news:3pmtk0h98ldjlh6ah...@4ax.com...
> > >> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:21:29 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> > >> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > >> >news:ktktk0p85e7st5dsu...@4ax.com...
> > >How the fuck would you know anything about the
> > >truth, you lying sack of shit? Just spew out your
> > >hateful bullshit and NEVER provide any facts of
> > >proof.
> > >WS
> > >
> > Kind of like you did on this post? You don't even know me, nor do you
> > know my education and background, yet you see fit to comment on my
> > veracity. Hmm.
> >
> > I'll just consider the source.
> >
> > Bob Curtin
>
> When you walk into a large pile of shit, its not
> much of a deductive leap to determine that it
> came from an asshole.
Smart people don't walk into a large pile of shit. (snicker)
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
> "Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:8gntk05at9m4452io...@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:34:20 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> >>Even the truth can be stomped out. It'll pass. Every now and then the
> >>nation goes through some sick stuff like this, where the extreme right
> >>wing
> >>are taking names and wanting to make people pay all the time for
> >>questioning
> >>the government and refusing to conform. The only thing wrong with the
> >>current story is that it was so vigorously attacked. CBS needs to line
> >>their ducks up, that's all, and stick to their guns. They broadcast the
> >>story because they believed it, and for no other reason. Hell, people who
> >>question the documents don't necessarily question what the documents
> >>claim.
> >>I've heard the debunkers debunked. I believe that what the documents
> >>purport is true, regardless of whether those particular documents prove
> >>it.
> >>
> >>And I assume by this threat to the 6 o'clock news you mean Fox, well, Fox
> >>tell the loons what they want to hear. No matter how many ratings they
> >>get,
> >>they're still in a minority and no one really takes them seriously. It's
> >>all shouters and polemicists. It'll pass and we'll look at this current
> >>era
> >>like we now do the McCarthy era. I'm not worried. Nations sometimes get
> >>sick. It's our turn now. Again.
> >>
> >>Alric
> >>
> > You, sir, and thousands of other dupes, are the reason Dan Rather and
> > 60 Minutes has played so loose and fast with the truth for so long.
> > You unflinchingly accept total bullshit as truth and live your life
> > around it.
> >
> > Live in oblivion if you wish.
> >
>
> And here you are, posting a lot of crap from the Swiftvets. Yeah, you've
> got credibility, pal. You're to interested in facts. You're interested only
> in character assassination. This whole Bush-ANG thing is a direct result of
> this Swiftboat campaign.
Baloney. The Bush-ANG thing was started by Terry McAuliffe of the DNC and has
been a losing talking point by the Dems for quite a while. It went nowhere in
the 2000 election and has gone even less far this time around. The Dems are
REALLY slow learners.
> It's a smear. No one believes it, and if the
> media would quit making it a story, it would go away.
Not so. Take a look at the polls. The Swift Boat vets' are taken very seriously
and have absolutely completely knocked the wind out of the Kerry campaign. Kerry
has taken a standing eight count over that and has now been sent to the mat
again with the Rather story. Kerry looks like the absurd meaningless fool that
he is.
> The swiftboat
> veterans have harmed the integrity of Vietnam veterans. So, sir, you keep
> on with your polemical bullshit and pretend it's all coming from one side.
Actually, Kerry's the one who TRIED to harm the integrity of the Vietnam
veterans. Unfortunately for him, his past actions have exploded in his face.
Kerry's finished.
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
> "Steve Canyon" <Steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote in message
> news:4rmtk018quetuegg0...@4ax.com...
> > This is pretty funny... It's CBS that has lost credibility, not Fox.
> > The big question now is how much credibility the Kerry campaign has
> > lost because they had hitched their wagon to Rather's story.
>
> Did they lose credibility? Not with me. I think the story's true. I think
> something might have happened behind the scenes that has made them back
> away, but I think they believed it at the time.
HA. Too funny. The ENTIRE story was based on the documents which have been
determined to be fraudulent and here you are thinking the story's still true
when even CBS has distanced itself from it. What a bozo you are. No wonder
you're a Dem.
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
> "Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:puntk0t19k4r871ni...@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:36:36 GMT, "bernard spilman"
> > <bspilma...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:3pmtk0h98ldjlh6ah...@4ax.com...
> >>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:21:29 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> >>> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>> >news:ktktk0p85e7st5dsu...@4ax.com...
> >>How the fuck would you know anything about the
> >>truth, you lying sack of shit? Just spew out your
> >>hateful bullshit and NEVER provide any facts of
> >>proof.
> >>WS
> >>
> > Kind of like you did on this post? You don't even know me, nor do you
> > know my education and background, yet you see fit to comment on my
> > veracity. Hmm.
> >
> > I'll just consider the source.
> >
> > Bob Curtin
>
> You're a fool, I know that just from this post. Your education or your
> background will have nothing to do with your veracity. People better
> educated than you can have an opposing point of view. Their education will
> not be an influencing factor for you. Right? So why should WE consider
> your education. Hell, one of your primary sources -- Matt Drudge -- has
> nothing but a high school education.
>
> And as for this claim of yours that you read sources from all over the
> world: you know, then, that Michael Moore's view of Bush is pretty much what
> the rest of the world holds.
Anyone who believes what Michael Moore believes is a fool.
> The whole Iraq war thing -- the rest of the
> world was on to it before the Americans were. I read The Guardian, myself,
> for an alternative point of view. Everything else is pretty much the party
> line here in the U. S.
I'm surprised you're able to read at all.
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
> "Steven D. Litvintchouk" <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:s%B3d.7452$n16....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> >
> > Alric Knebel wrote:
> >
> >> I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all,
> >> this is a free newsletter. . . .
> >> ------------------------------------------------
> >> THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
> >> On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
> >> By Greg Palast
> >
> > According to news reports, CBS News is about to admit that the documents
> > are fake. Probably later today.
> >
> > I think we should now go back to ALL these left-wingers--ALL of them--and
> > demand an apology from them.
> >
> > Starting with the ones on this NG.
>
> I don't think so. Whether the documents aren't fake is irrelevant.
HA. The documents ARE the story. There is NO story without them. Geez, pick up
the freakin' pace for Christ sake.
> What they documented was true.
Pssst....the documents have been determined to be bogus.
> There are gaps missing in the record. Release
> the real records and let's see what comes up.
There is no record. The documents are bogus.
> And apologies? Fuck no. Not until the right-wing loons apologize for the
> eight years of harassing Clinton. I think this is what you call "payback."
This "payback" is ass-kicking your pathetic Kerry right off the pages of the
newspaper and his campaign straight into the trash can. Regarding clinton, he
deserved the ass-kicking he got and he got off VERY light. He's just an
immature little punk and a very shameful ex-president.
Jim
jiml
bernard spilman wrote:
> "Steven D. Litvintchouk" <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:s%B3d.7452$n16....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> >
> > Alric Knebel wrote:
> >
> > > I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all,
> this
> > > is a free newsletter. . . .
> > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
> > > On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
> > > By Greg Palast
> >
> > According to news reports, CBS News is about to admit that the documents
> > are fake. Probably later today.
> >
> > I think we should now go back to ALL these left-wingers--ALL of
> > them--and demand an apology from them.
> >
> > Starting with the ones on this NG.
>
> OK, come by the house, you'll get your
> apology.
Aren't you the one who walked into a giant pile of shit? You're too stupid to
have a house.
Jim
jiml
Roedy Green wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:38:44 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote or quoted :
>
> >What is hot news this month in the USA is a five-year-old story to the rest
> >of the world. And you still wouldn't see it in the USA except that Dan
> >Rather, with a 60 Minutes producer, finally got fed up and ready to step out
> >of line. And, as Dan predicted, he stuck out his neck and got it chopped
> >off.
>
> The irony is Americans don't realize their news is just as censored as
> in Communist Russia, only done so slickly they don't notice.
BWAHAHAHAHA. You haven't a clue...and there's no irony in that whatsoever.
Jim
jiml
Bob Curtin wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:08:11 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Steven D. Litvintchouk" <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
> >news:s%B3d.7452$n16....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >>
> >> Alric Knebel wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all,
> >>> this is a free newsletter. . . .
> >>> ------------------------------------------------
> >>> THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
> >>> On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
> >>> By Greg Palast
> >>
> >> According to news reports, CBS News is about to admit that the documents
> >> are fake. Probably later today.
> >>
> >> I think we should now go back to ALL these left-wingers--ALL of them--and
> >> demand an apology from them.
> >>
> >> Starting with the ones on this NG.
> >
> >I don't think so. Whether the documents aren't fake is irrelevant. What
> >they documented was true. There are gaps missing in the record. Release
> >the real records and let's see what comes up.
> >
> >And apologies? Fuck no. Not until the right-wing loons apologize for the
> >eight years of harassing Clinton. I think this is what you call "payback."
> >
> >Alric
> >
> Well, I've got documents right here in my hands that say you're a
> homosexual child molester. They're fake, but that's irrelevent. What
> they document is true.
Multiple offenses too. (snicker)
Jim
>
>
> Bob Curtin
jiml
Roedy Green wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:19:28 -0400, Bob Curtin <vze2...@verizon.net>
> wrote or quoted :
>
> >What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
> >the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
> >fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
> >the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
> >public.
>
> What bugs me in the way everyone keeps acting as if it has already
> been proved the CBS documents were forgeries. They have NOT.
>
> One of two things have to happen.
>
> 1. Somebody recreates the CBS document showing how it was forged.
> Nobody has even come close so far to reproducing it.
Baloney. It was typed using a computer with Microsoft Word. That's how it
was forged, coconut.
> 2. Somebody has to collect print samples of all plausible typewriters
> that Killian could have used and show none of them match the CBS
> document. This has only partly been done.
This has already been done to CBS' satisfaction. That's why they've dumped
Rather's flea-bitten explanation and his backing of this corny story.
> Oddly, neither CBS nor the Republicans have bothered with these two
> tests. Instead they bat their gums with lies about superscripts, MS
> Word, and proportional spacing. You can't prove a forgery by repeated
> assertion.
Oh you're just so wrong.
Jim
jiml
OrionCA wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:34:20 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Go right ahead. The truth hurts. Your comfortable little world of
> >> Nitwitness News at six and 11 is being threatened and you don't like
> >> it. Too bad.
> >
> >Even the truth can be stomped out. It'll pass. Every now and then the
> >nation goes through some sick stuff like this, where the extreme right wing
> >are taking names and wanting to make people pay all the time for questioning
> >the government and refusing to conform. The only thing wrong with the
> >current story is that it was so vigorously attacked.
>
> That and that the memos were crude forgeries than any 4th grader
> should have been able to see through.
I wonder if the forgers also tossed in an ID card that said Rather was 21 when he
got those forged documents? (snicker)
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
There were about 254 of these veterans who served with Kerry's coastal patrol
division. They have overwealmingly have stated that Kerry is a useless pooch. I
would hardly characterize these many veterans as right-wing loons.
> > You, sir, are a class-A idiot. John Kerry came home after a few
> > months and few scratches and promptly joined Hanoi Jane and a bunch of
> > other commies in denouncing his fellow soldiers as baby-killers,
> > rapists and murderers and claiming that they performed all manner of
> > other atrocities.
> >
> > Half of my friends and my brother went to Vietnam and not only did
> > they not participate in any of the things claimed by Kerry, they never
> > saw any of it. Kerry is a lying sack of shit. I have lived in
> > Massachusetts all of my life and have known this scumbag since he got
> > into state politics. He's a gigolo, a liar and a man with absolutely
> > no principles. Anyone who would use his fellow servicemen in that way
> > to further his political career isn't fit to lick dogshit off the
> > bottom of their boots.
>
> Well, how many people does that add up to, your brother and half your
> friends? Kerry was repeating what OTHER veterans told him. He wasn't
> citing things he himself saw.
That's false. Go back and read Kerry's testimony.
> And, you, with all that name-calling all the
> time. And the only thing you're capable of thinking you just revealed.
>
> > Your problem is you have no fucking clue about what you're shooting
> > your mouth off. Go back to watching the Nitwitness News. It's
> > certainly on a par with your intelligence.
>
> You've got no credibility. At all. You're probably young and stupid.
> You're definitely a trendy fuck.
Nah, that's what Kerry tried to be at our veteran's expense. He got away with it
since 1971 and now it's a huge mushroom cloud where his campaign used to be.
Kerry's cooked.
Jim
Agathena
jiml wrote:
>
> Alric Knebel wrote:
>
>
>>I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all, this
>>is a free newsletter. . . .
>>------------------------------------------------
>>THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
>>On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
>>By Greg Palast
>>
>>September 21, 2004 00:29
>>
>>"It's that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of the tough
>>questions," the aging American journalist told the British television
>>audience.
>>
>>In June 2002, Dan Rather looked old, defeated, making a confession he dare
>>not speak on American TV about the deadly censorship -- and
>>self-censorship -- which had seized US newsrooms. After September 11, news
>>on the US tube was bound and gagged. Any reporter who stepped out of line,
>>he said, would be professionally lynched as un-American.
>
>
> Leave it to Rather to pathetically try and offer this for his absolutely
> completely unprofessional and unethical journalistic behavior. Rather's a washed
> up political hack and now a national laughingstock who's been exposed for the
> charlatan that he is. I give him 30 days max before CBS drop-kicks him.
>
> Jim
Only a few freepers are laughing.
The rest are more interested in
more important issues, like the
weather.
Bob Curtin
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Actually, moron, I'm 61, have a MBA, own my own business and have
probably sat on the john longer than you've been alive.
Like I said, I've known John Kerry since he got into state politics.
You've known ABOUT John Kerry for less than a year. Now, who's
credibility is in question on this subject? You who gets your
information from the Nitwitness News on CBS, or me who's had firsthand
knowledge of John Kerry for over 20 years?
Don't bother. I know what your foolish answer will be.
Bob Curtin
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>Well, how many people does that add up to, your brother and half your
>friends? Kerry was repeating what OTHER veterans told him. He wasn't
>citing things he himself saw. And, you, with all that name-calling all the
>time. And the only thing you're capable of thinking you just revealed.
>
Wrong. Kerry not only said he witnessed it himself, he said he took
part in those atrocities.
But okay, Alric, let's use your logic.
My brother was in Vietnam for two tours - that's two years. His best
friend was there for one full tour. That's one year. Seven of my
friends and several aquaintences did a grand total of ten tours in
Vietnam. Combined, that's a total of thirteen full tours or a total
of 152 months.
Kerry was in Vietnam for less than 4 months. That's 38 times the
amount of time that Kerry was on tour.
Five of the 13 men men I mentioned were stationed on bases in
non-combat roles and the other eight were directly involved in combat
on the ground in one form or another (Arillary, infantry, etc.)
Kerry was on a boat in the middle of a river.
Who do you think came into contact with more men, The 13 men I
mentioned, or John Kerry? For example, if Kerry came in contact
with, say, 2000 different men, on his four month tour, then these guys
came in contact with 72,000 men, yet Kerry just happened to run into
the guys who "witnessed" the alleged atrocities? If 13 men, serving
in Vietnam for a total of 152 months, never saw any of the widespread
and commonplace atrocities claimed by Kerry (and which he claimed he
actually took part in) and which Kerry said was sanctioned by the
command all the way to the top, I find it curious that Kerry had the
absolutely incredible good fortune to not only witness these
atrocities himself (from his vantage point on the river), but run into
so many men who also witnessed these alleged horrors. Man the guy
must be psychic.
Your naivete is astounding. In your zeal to defend Kerry, you're
willing to overlook the word of 254 decorated Swiftboat veterans -
many with far more decorations and all who served much longer than
Kerry - and take Kerry's word and and a couple of his crew who were
being paid to travel around and sing Kerry's praises.
Steve Canyon
(Baldur) wrote:
>In article <s80uk0l13q5qqnlk0...@4ax.com>
>Steve Canyon <Steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>>
>> The thing that happened behind the scenes is that they
>realized that
>> they got snookered and that they cannot cover it up.
>>
>> Now we have to wait and see how much damage the Kerry people
>did to
>> their campaign by hooking on to the forged memos.
>
>Not nearly as much damage as the Bush people did to their
>campaign by hooking on to the SwiftVets.
<LOL> So you think they hurt Bush, eh? If that was the case, imagine
how much further Kerry would be behind without them. Actually,
there's no doubt that it hurt Kerry, and this memo thing will hurt him
as well.
>BOTH of those campaigns point to the same fact: The George
>'WMD' Bush is a chickenhawk who shirked on his own military
>'service', while John Kerry is a decorated combat veteran.
>
>I really cannot see how any soldier or veteran or US patriot
>could possibly vote for Bush.
That probably has to do with your inability to see reality. It
appears that you have a real problem in that regard.
Alric Knebel
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:40:25 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"OrionCA" <Ori...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:7rsuk0dqqan51u0s1...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:34:20 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
>>> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Go right ahead. The truth hurts. Your comfortable little world of
>>>>> Nitwitness News at six and 11 is being threatened and you don't like
>>>>> it. Too bad.
>>>>
>>>>Even the truth can be stomped out. It'll pass. Every now and then the
>>>>nation goes through some sick stuff like this, where the extreme right
>>>>wing
>>>>are taking names and wanting to make people pay all the time for
>>>>questioning
>>>>the government and refusing to conform. The only thing wrong with the
>>>>current story is that it was so vigorously attacked.
>>>
>>> That and that the memos were crude forgeries than any 4th grader
>>> should have been able to see through.
>>
>>Bullshit. You're just jumping on it with a display of more confidence
>>than
>>your abilities warrant.
>
> typewriter in his life. At the very least he could have switched to
> Courier font, which would have at least made them look plausible.
In a report I saw, the document looked as if it had been typed on a
typewriter. The baseline was uneven, as is often the case with typewriters.
If they were forgeries, they were not CRUDE forgeries. It wouldn't take
experts to figure out if they're forged or not.
Alric
Alric Knebel
"jiml" <ji...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:414FBFC6...@nospam.com...
No, the story IS true. The documents MIGHT be false. CBS never said the
were forged. They said they can't prove they aren't. You can't read. No
wonder you're a Republican.
Alric
Alric Knebel
You're a vain, stupid man. I don't give a shit if you have a Ph.D. I can
assure you, people from the opposite side have just as many credentials and
more. What a maroon, to try such a thing. And how do you have "firsthand
knowledge" of Kerry? If you were always on the opposite side of him, you
were always judging him more harshly than you'd judge someone from your
side. You're a twit.
Alric
Alric Knebel
You're dreaming. It's still a close race. Do you really think that I would
change my opinion based on all of this nonsense? Why would other Democrats?
Alric
Alric Knebel
Anyone who DOESN'T believe Bush is a conniving ass, pretty much as Moore
depicted him, is a moron. See how easy this is?
Alric
Alric Knebel
>
>
> Roedy Green wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:19:28 -0400, Bob Curtin <vze2...@verizon.net>
>> wrote or quoted :
>>
>> >What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
>> >the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
>> >fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
>> >the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
>> >public.
>>
>> What bugs me in the way everyone keeps acting as if it has already
>> been proved the CBS documents were forgeries. They have NOT.
>>
>> One of two things have to happen.
>>
>> 1. Somebody recreates the CBS document showing how it was forged.
>> Nobody has even come close so far to reproducing it.
>
> Baloney. It was typed using a computer with Microsoft Word. That's how it
> was forged, coconut.
>
>> 2. Somebody has to collect print samples of all plausible typewriters
>> that Killian could have used and show none of them match the CBS
>> document. This has only partly been done.
>
> This has already been done to CBS' satisfaction. That's why they've dumped
> Rather's flea-bitten explanation and his backing of this corny story.
In that case, the story would be over. But I heard just this morning that
the only thing CBS claimed was, they can't prove the documents are
authentic. Now, I know this is hard, but think about it very carefully.
There's an important difference. The document I saw had an uneven baseline.
That wouldn't happen in a Word document, regardless of the font you used.
Alric
Alric Knebel
"jiml" <ji...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> Multiple offenses too. (snicker)
I'm going to do you a favor. I'm going to tell you you look like an idiot
when you add that "snicker" thing. You think it gives you one up, but you
look like a monkey eating a shit ice cream cone, and grinning about it.
Alric
Alric Knebel
>
>
> Alric Knebel wrote:
>
>> "Steven D. Litvintchouk" <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
>> news:s%B3d.7452$n16....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> >
>> >
>> > Alric Knebel wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all,
>> >> this is a free newsletter. . . .
>> >> ------------------------------------------------
>> >> THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
>> >> On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
>> >> By Greg Palast
>> >
>> > According to news reports, CBS News is about to admit that the
>> > documents
>> > are fake. Probably later today.
>> >
>> > I think we should now go back to ALL these left-wingers--ALL of
>> > them--and
>> > demand an apology from them.
>> >
>> > Starting with the ones on this NG.
>>
>> I don't think so. Whether the documents aren't fake is irrelevant.
>
> HA. The documents ARE the story. There is NO story without them. Geez,
> pick up
> the freakin' pace for Christ sake.
That's where you're wrong. Bush's ANG service has always been suspicious.
That's why this new story is so believable.
> Pssst....the documents have been determined to be bogus.
No, they just haven't been proven to be authentic.
>> There are gaps missing in the record. Release
>> the real records and let's see what comes up.
>
> There is no record. The documents are bogus.
>
>> And apologies? Fuck no. Not until the right-wing loons apologize for
>> the
>> eight years of harassing Clinton. I think this is what you call
>> "payback."
>
> This "payback" is ass-kicking your pathetic Kerry right off the pages of
> the
> newspaper and his campaign straight into the trash can. Regarding clinton,
> he
> deserved the ass-kicking he got and he got off VERY light. He's just an
> immature little punk and a very shameful ex-president.
There you go. I rest my case. The current Commander-in-Thief deserves to
be harassed far more than Clinton did, you hick turd.
Alric
Alric Knebel
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:45:19 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steve Canyon" <Steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>>< editted >
>>>
>>> "I have the right to vote against him in the next
>>> election."
>>>
>>> --Zepp Jamieson, 1996
>>> http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=4l6trj%24iq4%40news.snowcrest.net
>>
>>
>>What's this obsession you have for Zepp Jamieson?
>>
>>Alric
>>
>
> Well, for one thing, I don't think much of his attempts to influence
> the US elections while pretending to be a US citizen.
He's politically astute. That's what I do like about him.
Alric
Alric Knebel
You slack-jawed nincompoop. YOU didn't get what he meant when he said
"irony." The irony is, Americans are quick to jump on how state-controlled
the media was in communist Russia, and how we're always harping about all
these freedoms, mainly freedom of the press. But the press is at the beck
and call of nothing noble. Again, with that "BWAHAHAH," you look like a
redneck jackass.
Alric
Bob Curtin
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I don't have a Ph.D, stupid, I have a MBA
I have firsthand knowledge of Kerry because I live in Massachusetts,
and have all of my life, you nitwit. I followed his useless career
from state politics to his long do-nothing record in the Senate. Try
looking it up. He doesn't have a single major piece of legislation to
his record in over twenty years.
Finally, I'm not a Republican. I've voted for many Democrats in my
life, including my present Representative to Congress. I vote for the
man, not the party.
Steve Canyon
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<LOL> Cling to that thread if it gives you comfort, you sad, little
moron, but don't be surprised if the kool aid you're drinking has a
strange "kick."
The fact is that it's generally believed by everyone that matters that
the memos are forged, and therefore worthless. The whole issue is now
about where the forgeries came from and who was involved in getting
them onto 60 minutes.
This story has moved well beyond the point where it might hurt Bush.
The only thing it can do now is hurt CBS, Dan Rather, and perhaps
Kerry's campaign if anyone there was involved.
This is really fun... Hope that you're enjoying it.
--
"I have the right to vote against him in the next
election."
--Zepp Jamieson, 1996
http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=4l6trj%24iq4%40news.snowcrest.net
"I will throw my vote away on a 3rd party candidate."
Alric Knebel
"Agathena" <nos...@thisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:TSQ3d.61871$%S.60418@pd7tw2no...
Is that who this guy is, one of those goofy freepers? It figures. You
know, I go to that website every now and then, and I swear, those guys are
so hateful, they'll post an article and one post after the other, worthless
junk, mostly a pile-on about nothing. What a bunch of idiots. And to
think, that's what Republicans are pandering to. The lowest common
denominator.
Alric
Alric Knebel
>
>
> Alric Knebel wrote:
>
>> "Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:3pmtk0h98ldjlh6ah...@4ax.com...
>> > <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> >>news:ktktk0p85e7st5dsu...@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:38:44 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
>> >>>
>> >>>>I'm sure Greg Palast wouldn't mind if I posted this here. After all,
>> >>>>this
>> >>>>is a free newsletter. . . .
>> >>>>------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
>> >>>>On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
>> >>>>By Greg Palast
>> >>>>
>> >>>>September 21, 2004 00:29
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"It's that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>tough
>> >>>>questions," the aging American journalist told the British television
>> >>>>audience.
>> >>>>
>> >>> onto
>> >>> the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
>> >>> fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
>> >>> the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
>> >>> public.
>> >>>
>> >>>>dare
>> >>>>not speak on American TV about the deadly censorship -- and
>> >>>>self-censorship -- which had seized US newsrooms. After September
>> >>>>11,
>> >>>>news
>> >>>>on the US tube was bound and gagged. Any reporter who stepped out of
>> >>>>line,
>> >>>>he said, would be professionally lynched as un-American.
>> >>>>
>> >>> that he and the rest of the old media is being held to the standard
>> >>> that it had years ago, but threw away when ratings and the bottom
>> >>> line
>> >>> became more important than the truth. Rather and the old media has
>> >>> become little more than a bunch of Michael Moores.
>> >>
>> >>Oh, here we go. The old "liberal media" bullshit. And the stuff about
>> >>Moore. I think I'll just skip the rest of it.
>> >>
>> >>Alric
>> >>
>> > Go right ahead. The truth hurts. Your comfortable little world of
>> > Nitwitness News at six and 11 is being threatened and you don't like
>> > it. Too bad.
>>
>> nation goes through some sick stuff like this, where the extreme right
>> wing
>> are taking names and wanting to make people pay all the time for
>> questioning
>> the government and refusing to conform.
>
> (the
> supposed defender of the nation's rights) quickly excuse any transgression
> when
> a member of their team crosses the line. They closed their eyes many, many
> times
> with the hapless clown clinton and now they're doing the same with Rather.
> It's
> no wonder they've been booted from power and remain the idea-less,
> agenda-less,
> leadership-less goofball party that they are today.
You and your kind are what's wrong with this country right now. Eventually,
the sickness will pass, and the turds will once again sink to the bottom,
where they belong. ( *snicker* ) You fucking imbecile.
Alric
Alric Knebel
"jiml" <ji...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> Smart people don't walk into a large pile of shit. (snicker)
>
> Jim
I have nothing to say about this. I just thought that an idiot your size
needs a showcase twice as big. This is the other half. ( snicker )
Alric
Alric Knebel
I didn't say you did, you shit-for-brains fuck. I said I didn't care IF you
had a Ph.D. I'm making the point that credentials don't give you any
leverage, as people with varying degrees of education can be found on all
sides of an issue.
> I have firsthand knowledge of Kerry because I live in Massachusetts,
> and have all of my life, you nitwit. I followed his useless career
> from state politics to his long do-nothing record in the Senate. Try
> looking it up. He doesn't have a single major piece of legislation to
> his record in over twenty years.
That's bullshit. You sound just partisan as hell. You followed him as his
partisan naysayer, and he couldn't do anything right by you.
> Finally, I'm not a Republican. I've voted for many Democrats in my
> life, including my present Representative to Congress. I vote for the
> man, not the party.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know all about your type. You make this claim, then
post links supported by extreme rightj-wingers, including a link to the
Swiftboat Vets. Sure, you vote for the man and not the party. Yeah, and I
take that with the same credulity you'll take me when I say I'm voting for
Bush this electon.
Alric
Alric Knebel
You're dreaming, little engine. The Bush Administration wasn't hurt by the
Swiftboat ads, and there's evidence the administration was connected to that
smear. Kerry won't be hurt by this, because his supporters know what the
game is really all about. Even if they're forged, Kerry won't be
associated. And even if he is, who cares? You might, but you weren't going
to vote for him anyway.
Alric
Bob Curtin
Okay Alric, have a nice breakfast when you wake up.
Johnny Lingo
"Alric Knebel" <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:kCY3d.54818$zT6....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
You really showed your true idiocy from that one sentence. Obviously the
far left will vote for Kerry, but the people in the middle of the road might
NOT vote for Kerry if he is connected. Besides the fact IF he IS connected,
there were Federal laws that were broken and he should be held accountable!
> Alric
>
>
Johnny Lingo
LOL! You say it wouldn't take experts, but CBS was duped!
Steve Canyon
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>"Steve Canyon" <Steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote in message
>news:ua4vk017chhob4kea...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:45:19 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
>> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Steve Canyon" <Steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>>>< editted >
>>>>
>>>> "I have the right to vote against him in the next
>>>> election."
>>>>
>>>> --Zepp Jamieson, 1996
>>>> http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=4l6trj%24iq4%40news.snowcrest.net
>>>
>>>< editted >
>>>
>>>What's this obsession you have for Zepp Jamieson?
>>>
>>>Alric
>>>
>>
>> Well, for one thing, I don't think much of his attempts to influence
>> the US elections while pretending to be a US citizen.
>
>He's politically astute. That's what I do like about him.
>
>Alric
>
<LOL> Did you say that you like that he's a political "toot?"
Of course you like him. He shares his kool aid with you.
--
"I have the right to vote against him in the next
election."
--Zepp Jamieson, 1996
http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=4l6trj%24iq4%40news.snowcrest.net
"I will throw my vote away on a 3rd party candidate."
Steve Canyon
<al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<LOL> There's absolutely no evidence of that.
> Kerry won't be hurt by this, because his supporters know what the
>game is really all about. Even if they're forged, Kerry won't be
>associated. And even if he is, who cares? You might, but you weren't going
>to vote for him anyway.
<LOL> Have some more kool aid.
>Alric
jiml
Bob Curtin wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:31:52 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:g20uk0taqp7pnum2i...@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:58:01 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> >> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:8gntk05at9m4452io...@4ax.com...
> >>>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:34:20 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> >>>> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:3pmtk0h98ldjlh6ah...@4ax.com...
> >>>>>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:21:29 -0500, "Alric Knebel"
> >>>>>> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Bob Curtin" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:ktktk0p85e7st5dsu...@4ax.com...
> >>>>>> Go right ahead. The truth hurts. Your comfortable little world of
> >>>>>> Nitwitness News at six and 11 is being threatened and you don't like
> >>>>>> it. Too bad.
> >>>>>
HA. Hilarious...and likely true.
Jim
> Like I said, I've known John Kerry since he got into state politics.
> You've known ABOUT John Kerry for less than a year. Now, who's
> credibility is in question on this subject? You who gets your
> information from the Nitwitness News on CBS, or me who's had firsthand
> knowledge of John Kerry for over 20 years?
>
> Don't bother. I know what your foolish answer will be.
>
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
Nah, the STORY IS the DOCUMENS. The documents have been shown to be forgeries so
there is no story. Sorry to burst your bubble.
> The documents MIGHT be false.
Nah, they ARE false. That's why CBS distanced themselves from them.
> CBS never said the
> were forged.
They said they were too unreliable to be used as the basis for a story. These
are lawyers words which were chosen to limit their liability in a slander suit.
> They said they can't prove they aren't. You can't read. No
> wonder you're a Republican.
Hilarious. You believe in forgeries as the basis for your corndog beliefs. No
wonder you're a goofball and a Democrat.
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
Given that the Democrat Party is the party of truly stupid people, they probably
wouldn't.
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
Indeed. You're making a complete and total ass of yourself much better than I or
anyone else could. It must be easy. We don't have to do anything.
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
Nah, I'm just laughing AT a monkey eating a shit ice cream cone (take you, for
instance).
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
> "jiml" <ji...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:414FC244...@nospam.com...
> >
> >
> > Roedy Green wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:19:28 -0400, Bob Curtin <vze2...@verizon.net>
> >> wrote or quoted :
> >>
> >> >What, the fear of getting caught trying to foist forged documents onto
> >> >the public to get a "scoop?" Rather and 60 Minutes has been playing
> >> >fast and loose with the truth for a long time. With the internet and
> >> >the "New Media," he is finding it ever more difficult to dupe the
> >> >public.
> >>
> >> What bugs me in the way everyone keeps acting as if it has already
> >> been proved the CBS documents were forgeries. They have NOT.
> >>
> >> One of two things have to happen.
> >>
> >> 1. Somebody recreates the CBS document showing how it was forged.
> >> Nobody has even come close so far to reproducing it.
> >
> > Baloney. It was typed using a computer with Microsoft Word. That's how it
> > was forged, coconut.
> >
> >> 2. Somebody has to collect print samples of all plausible typewriters
> >> that Killian could have used and show none of them match the CBS
> >> document. This has only partly been done.
> >
> > This has already been done to CBS' satisfaction. That's why they've dumped
> > Rather's flea-bitten explanation and his backing of this corny story.
>
> In that case, the story would be over.
Like most books, it has more than one chapter.
> But I heard just this morning that
> the only thing CBS claimed was, they can't prove the documents are
> authentic.
Pssst....that's lawyer-speak for "they're forged".
> Now, I know this is hard, but think about it very carefully.
> There's an important difference. The document I saw had an uneven baseline.
> That wouldn't happen in a Word document, regardless of the font you used.
Pssst...think about this very carefully....It was put in the copier a bit
crooked.
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
No, it has not been suspicious. This is a figment of Terry McAuliffe's
imagination. He knew that he'd have stupid people like you to keep this corny
story alive. McAuliffe was right about you.
> > Pssst....the documents have been determined to be bogus.
>
> No, they just haven't been proven to be authentic.
HA. They're bogus alright. Your desparation is showing.
> >> There are gaps missing in the record. Release
> >> the real records and let's see what comes up.
> >
> > There is no record. The documents are bogus.
> >
> >> And apologies? Fuck no. Not until the right-wing loons apologize for
> >> the
> >> eight years of harassing Clinton. I think this is what you call
> >> "payback."
> >
> > This "payback" is ass-kicking your pathetic Kerry right off the pages of
> > the
> > newspaper and his campaign straight into the trash can. Regarding clinton,
> > he
> > deserved the ass-kicking he got and he got off VERY light. He's just an
> > immature little punk and a very shameful ex-president.
>
> There you go. I rest my case.
You don't have a case so feel free to take a rest. As a matter of fact, you need
a rest.
> The current Commander-in-Thief deserves to
> be harassed far more than Clinton did, you hick turd.
That must be why clinton was impeached, repeatedly fined, lost his law license,
was disbarred, was contempt-cited as well as making a public statement that he
was a liar in order to avoid yet FURTHER prosecution. Stay stupid, Alric.
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
Nah, I'm just having you some fun watching you run around with your hair on
fire.
Jim
jiml
Alric Knebel wrote:
> "jiml" <ji...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> > Smart people don't walk into a large pile of shit. (snicker)
> >
> > Jim
>
> I have nothing to say about this.
So that must account for your post here.
> I just thought that an idiot your size
> needs a showcase twice as big. This is the other half. ( snicker )
Actually, you're the one running your ignorant mouth. I'm just watching you
make a fool of yourself which you seem quite good at.
Jim
Johnny Lingo
Of course this is the basis! They have been trying to pin this on Bush for
years with no luck (since it is not true). They finally get something that
they believe will be the answer to what they have wished for for years, but
it turns out to be a forgery. They want to believe more than we probably
know. Now they need another glass of Kool-Aid!