The Wartime Thoughts of a Soldiers Father
Peter Vos
generals in favor of it were General Dynamics, and General Technology. I
think the real generals, the ones who had actually seen combat, were
reluctant for good reason.
Like Mr. Huntz, I am sure they understand and dread the consequence of
changing our motto to "Oderint dum metuant."
Ninure Saunders <RainbowChri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RainbowChristiannoh...@h-68-164-11-209.chcgilgm.covad.
net...
> The Wartime Thoughts of a Soldiers Father
>
>
> What follows is a prayer for our troops in Iraq, preceded by a few
> thoughts from a veteran of the U.S. Army, a tradition-minded Catholic, and
> the father of a U.S. serviceman serving in the Mid-East
>
> I am not a pacifist, nor am I a coward. I am also not a supporter of
> President Bush when he puts the United States at war with Iraq. I served
> this country for three years in the Army. While I was in the Army, it was
> peacetime; the Vietnam War was in its early stages Special Forces
> advisors only. I spent some time in Korea, Japan, France and Spain. Even
> back then (1960), the Koreans didn't like us, nor did the French; in fact,
> I was better treated by the Japanese and the Spaniards. So, from what Ive
> seen, our country not being liked by other countries is nothing new. As
> one of my drill sergeants used to tell us, I dont expect you to like me,
> but you will respect me!
>
> I think thats fair. And there is a difference between the two. I think
> thats part of our country's problem today: Our leaders expect the whole
> world to love us but don't seem concerned enough about earning the worlds
> respect. I think there are those who would like to have us feared, too.
> But few seem overly concerned about earning respect.
>
> I have anguished over not being able to sincerely support our leaders in
> this attack on Iraq, especially since I have a son in the service
> somewhere over there right now. Of course, I support and love my son; I
> also fully support our men and women in the services that have been placed
> in harm's way. I hope they can all return home, safe and sound but I also
> know that they all won't. We're told that it's their "job" and that no one
> forced them to enlist. That's not always accurate. My son joined the
> service because of economic difficulties he was experiencing at the time
> and because of the many promises his recruiter made. So far, all those
> promises haven't been kept. At any rate, he is over there and he leaves a
> wife and four children behind (his youngest was born last October).
> Sometimes the one's left behind have it the hardest.
>
> If I could see how this country is endangered by Iraq or that Iraq was an
> imminent threat, I might feel differently. Sure, Saddam is a nasty person
> but he certainly isn't the only one in this sad world. We have one 90
> miles off the coast of Florida; he's been there since 1959. The Iraqi
> people aren't suffering nearly as much as the Ethiopians or the Sudanese
> or those in many of the other African and Asian countries, yet we don't do
> much to help them. So, why Iraq? I haven't heard one credible reason why
> from George Bush yet. He and others like him bristle when they hear the
> charge that this whole mess is over oil and Israel.Which brings me back to
> the word respectit is something you have to earn. You don't get it any
> other way. My sergeant got it because he was honest and truthful with his
> men. When we ask why our sons are being sent off to war this time, the
> answer seems to change by the day.
>
> I fear for this country because I believe the worst is yet to come. One of
> the reasons the President still has so much support is because we don't
> have the draft in this country, so a lot of people aren't affected yet
> because their sons, daughters and husbands are safe at home going about
> their normal American lives. So far, it's only the few who are in harm's
> way. When I was in the Army, this country still had the draft and they
> weren't taking married men with children. Most of our people were single,
> as it should be. I just wonder whos going to take care of the widows and
> children this time around. Who will guarantee these fatherless or
> motherless children parental love, college education or a chance to live a
> normal life?
>
> I could go on but I think you see my point. If you would, when you get the
> time, please say this prayer:
>
> O God, we beseech Thee, watch over the souls of all who are exposed to the
> horrors of war, and to the spiritual dangers inseparable from a military
> life. Bless them with such a strong Faith that no human respect may ever
> lead them to deny it, or fear to practice it. Do Thou by Thy grace fortify
> them against the contagion of bad example. Keep them always in Thy
> friendship. May nothing in life or death ever separate them from Thee.
>
> Mother of God, be with them on land, or sea, or in the air during life and
> at the hour of death, and grant that they may die in the grace of thy Son
> should they be killed.
>
> May their Guardian Angels protect them. Amen.
>
> Sincerely,
> Albert D. Huntz
> Tonawanda, New York
> ===========================================================
>
> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
>
> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
>
> My Yahoo Group
> http://Ninure.tk
>
> My Online Diary
> http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
> -
> Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
> http://www.MCCchurch.org
>
> To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
Steve Hiner
"Peter Vos" <pvo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XJidnfWtOp6...@comcast.com...
> It's interesting when you consider that before the war began the only
> generals in favor of it were General Dynamics, and General Technology. I
> think the real generals, the ones who had actually seen combat, were
> reluctant for good reason.
>
> Like Mr. Huntz, I am sure they understand and dread the consequence of
> changing our motto to "Oderint dum metuant."
A favorite saying of Caligura!
Oderint dum metuant = "Let them hate so long as they fear us".
And what happens when they no longer fear us?
I guess from the fascist right-wing looney tune level of inteligence, they
would kill more and keep on killing till they fear us again! Their level of
paranoia is so high, that anyone that doesn't fear them needs to be killed,
because, they are trying to kill them! No proof, no logic, no common sense!
When does it end?
When everyone is dead?
Gandalf Grey
"Steve Hiner" <shi...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sklla.126535$j8.27...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Peter Vos" <pvo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:XJidnfWtOp6...@comcast.com...
> > It's interesting when you consider that before the war began the only
> > generals in favor of it were General Dynamics, and General Technology.
I
> > think the real generals, the ones who had actually seen combat, were
> > reluctant for good reason.
> >
> > Like Mr. Huntz, I am sure they understand and dread the consequence of
> > changing our motto to "Oderint dum metuant."
>
>
> A favorite saying of Caligura!
>
> Oderint dum metuant = "Let them hate so long as they fear us".
>
> And what happens when they no longer fear us?
In a way, it's worse than that. What happens when their fear cannot compete
with their sense of loss and their sense of personal and religious freedom?
Fear in itself is a mutable emotion. It can be used to energize and
mobilize not just to keep a people or a nation or a group of nations
immobile. In order for fear to be an effective wall against an uprising
against an occupying regime, the Bush regime will have to spread itself
across the world to the point where it can no longer supply the endless
numbers of personnel and money that will be required. The occupation and
colonization that the Bushies have planned will require thousands of armed
troops and the exact kind of tactics that Saddam used against his own
people. The Bush Empire, like the Roman Empire before it will ultimately
overextend itself and its control will falter and fail.
Once the Iraqis, the Syrians, the Iranians, etc. realize that Bush never had
any intention of offering freedom, their fear at our military might will
turn into hatred and the kind of deep down panic that solidifies the urge to
murder the jailor at any cost.
Meanwhile, the free world will continue to distance itself from us and
hatred toward the U.S. will build across the world. It will be at that
point, that the U.S. realizes that it was never able to 'go it alone' for
any length of time. At that point we will have to cooperate or declare war
on all of Europe and Asia as well.
Bush's plans are doomed by history and doomed by pragmatic realism. The
right wingers in this group are already flexing their 'muscles' and crowing
about a new American Empire, but all that's happening is the hastening of
the end of the American Nation and the American Idea. All Bush has to offer
is death.
joe_mama
<shi...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"Peter Vos" <pvo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:XJidnfWtOp6...@comcast.com...
>> It's interesting when you consider that before the war began the only
>> generals in favor of it were General Dynamics, and General Technology. I
>> think the real generals, the ones who had actually seen combat, were
>> reluctant for good reason.
>>
>> Like Mr. Huntz, I am sure they understand and dread the consequence of
>> changing our motto to "Oderint dum metuant."
>
>
>A favorite saying of Caligura!
Gawd, please stop trying to come off as intelligent, will ya? The
quote is from Caligula not "Caligura", whoever that may be.
>Oderint dum metuant = "Let them hate so long as they fear us".
Probably the same thing that OBL was thinking right after 9/11.
>And what happens when they no longer fear us?
Why don't you ask the peoples of Germany and Japan or the former
Soviet bloc nations? Like todays Muslin population of the Middle East,
they were fed a daily diet of propaganda only to discover they had
nothing to fear afterall.
Now how about you tell me: What do you think is going to happen now
that the terrorists and terrorist sponsoring nations know we're no
longer going to play the role of international piñata?
>I guess from the fascist right-wing looney tune level of inteligence, they
>would kill more and keep on killing till they fear us again! Their level of
>paranoia is so high, that anyone that doesn't fear them needs to be killed,
>because, they are trying to kill them! No proof, no logic, no common sense!
Ironically, that last sentance is a perfect analysis of the dreck that
proceeded it. Keep up the good work there, Village Idiot.
Peter Vos
<Joe Mama> wrote in message news:3e96e71f...@news.newshosting.com...
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:26:48 GMT, "Steve Hiner"
> <shi...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Peter Vos" <pvo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:XJidnfWtOp6...@comcast.com...
> >> It's interesting when you consider that before the war began the only
> >> generals in favor of it were General Dynamics, and General Technology.
I
> >> think the real generals, the ones who had actually seen combat, were
> >> reluctant for good reason.
> >>
> >> Like Mr. Huntz, I am sure they understand and dread the consequence of
> >> changing our motto to "Oderint dum metuant."
> >
> >
> >A favorite saying of Caligura!
>
> Gawd, please stop trying to come off as intelligent, will ya? The
> quote is from Caligula not "Caligura", whoever that may be.
>
Yeah he kind of ruins the punchline by broadcasting it, but oh well - take
it like a [spoiler]
>
> >Oderint dum metuant = "Let them hate so long as they fear us".
>
> Probably the same thing that OBL was thinking right after 9/11.
Exactly the same thing. Which is not a good reason to emulate it.
>
>
> >And what happens when they no longer fear us?
>
I guess they come looking for payback.
> Why don't you ask the peoples of Germany and Japan or the former
> Soviet bloc nations? Like todays Muslin population of the Middle East,
> they were fed a daily diet of propaganda only to discover they had
> nothing to fear afterall.
I guess the average person in Germany, Japan, and Russia doesn't view the US
as a threat - but I doubt they would say we "liberated" them.
The German and Japanese analogy also overlooks the immediate rapproachment
made on the heels of the war between Allied industrialists and the
monopolies in Germany(e.g. IG Farben) and Japan(e.g., the zaibatsu).
Remember what happened after MacArthur came in and vowed to destroy the
zaibatsu and set up trade unions. Instead of impressing the voters and
launching his bid for the Presidency, the rapid growth of trade unions
scared the crap out of the Truman Administration so they sent the banker
Joseph Dodge over to put the zaibatsu BACK in power. Similarly in Germany,
the same industrialists who ran the Nazi war machine wound up back in
control within a matter of months. The Soviet example is a bit different.
First off, we didn't invade, the war had basically been fought through
proxies and on economic terms so their system simply imploded. What grew
out of that is largely a kleptocracy. The old party bosses are now for the
most part allied with organized crime.
>
> Now how about you tell me: What do you think is going to happen now
> that the terrorists and terrorist sponsoring nations know we're no
> longer going to play the role of international piñata?
>
There will be continued incidents of more or less futile violence. They
won't stop the juggernaut of the US military-industrial complex, but they
will scare the hell out of ordinary people. This is not going to be a short
term problem. I was thinking further down the road it may become a
significant problem. The Chinese are hoping for this over-extended
low-intensity stateless conflict to continue for some time. They call the
strategy "Tying Gulliver Down ."
Steve Hiner
"Gandalf Grey" <ganda...@infectedmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e95efe7$0$44159$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
>
> "Steve Hiner" <shi...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:sklla.126535$j8.27...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >
> > "Peter Vos" <pvo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:XJidnfWtOp6...@comcast.com...
> > > It's interesting when you consider that before the war began the only
> > > generals in favor of it were General Dynamics, and General Technology.
> I
> > > think the real generals, the ones who had actually seen combat, were
> > > reluctant for good reason.
> > >
> > > Like Mr. Huntz, I am sure they understand and dread the consequence of
> > > changing our motto to "Oderint dum metuant."
> >
> >
> > A favorite saying of Caligura!
> >
> > Oderint dum metuant = "Let them hate so long as they fear us".
> >
> > And what happens when they no longer fear us?
>
> In a way, it's worse than that. What happens when their fear cannot
compete
> with their sense of loss and their sense of personal and religious
freedom?
Exactly why I've stated this IS a Christian Crusade. Oh, not on Dubya's
surface mind you. If it were, he'd never get to first base! But, a wolf in
sheeps clothing, non the less.
> Fear in itself is a mutable emotion. It can be used to energize and
> mobilize not just to keep a people or a nation or a group of nations
> immobile. In order for fear to be an effective wall against an uprising
> against an occupying regime, the Bush regime will have to spread itself
> across the world to the point where it can no longer supply the endless
> numbers of personnel and money that will be required.
True! Kinda like trying to cover a black spot on a wall. One coat of paint
won't make the black spot go away, more coats are required. And is the cost
of those coats worth the number required. Simplistic, but, I think you know
what I mean.
> The occupation and
> colonization that the Bushies have planned will require thousands of armed
> troops and the exact kind of tactics that Saddam used against his own
> people. The Bush Empire, like the Roman Empire before it will ultimately
> overextend itself and its control will falter and fail.
>
> Once the Iraqis, the Syrians, the Iranians, etc. realize that Bush never
had
> any intention of offering freedom, their fear at our military might will
> turn into hatred and the kind of deep down panic that solidifies the urge
to
> murder the jailor at any cost.
The realization of a false offering of freedom has already shown itself in
Afghanistan, at low volume right now, but, it won't take much more for that
volume to increase. The drunkenness of jubilance hasn't worn off in Iraq
yet.
> Meanwhile, the free world will continue to distance itself from us and
> hatred toward the U.S. will build across the world. It will be at that
> point, that the U.S. realizes that it was never able to 'go it alone' for
> any length of time. At that point we will have to cooperate or declare
war
> on all of Europe and Asia as well.
And the end of Nam' will be repeated! Hopefully, the mental midget and his
like will be thown off the stage before it gets to the level of aggression.
> Bush's plans are doomed by history and doomed by pragmatic realism. The
> right wingers in this group are already flexing their 'muscles' and
crowing
> about a new American Empire, but all that's happening is the hastening of
> the end of the American Nation and the American Idea. All Bush has to
offer
> is death.
Or the hastening to what some on the right, particularly the racist and
bigots, have wanted, isolationism. The winds of fate can still sway the
course, but, the prevailing winds are pointing us in your direction, though.
What I wonder is, even when the decent folks, on the right, figure out that
their pants are on fire, will it be to late to change the winds of fate?
Steve Hiner
You shouldn't confuse Joeboy with anything long term. He has enough trouble
figuring out which shoe to put on first, in the morning. He does the right
foot first now, only because he's been told to do so. Problem is, they
never told him to put the left one on, as well.