A nation that forgets
JA**
This is what I think Nu Lab want. I reckon they are trying
to brain wash our brightest kids into despising their own nation.
Ian Bailey
in the nation.
Ian
Claire Easthope
''You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of
the human race.'' - George Bernard Shaw
The generation gap is quite noticeable. It is not that we hate our
country but that our notion of citizenship tends to be different to the
older generations. When I get a lecture on loyalty and honour I have to
ask who is qualified to give me a lecture and on what?
The Enlightenment
"JA**" <jah...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:32ebfjF...@individual.net...
> A nation that forgets its history is like a man who loses his memory.
>
> This is what I think Nu Lab want. I reckon they are trying
> to brain wash our brightest kids into despising their own nation.
Quite correct. He who controls the past controls the present and he who
controls the present controls the future.
By keeping Britons feeling discredited and contrite the NuLabour parasites
and hypocrites hope to avoid scrutiny and oppostion to their ethno-marxist
progammes.
The Enlightenment
"Claire Easthope" <Claire....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:KRnwd.272$pf4...@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> JA** wrote:
>
> > A nation that forgets its history is like a man who loses his memory.
> >
> > This is what I think Nu Lab want. I reckon they are trying
> > to brain wash our brightest kids into despising their own nation.
> >
> >
>
>
> ''You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of
> the human race.'' - George Bernard Shaw
>
> The generation gap is quite noticeable. It is not that we hate our
> country but that our notion of citizenship tends to be different to the
> older generations.
Yes, its looking decidely Asian and African and soon will be predominantly
so.
SH
"Claire Easthope" <Claire....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:KRnwd.272$pf4...@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
I don't know whether you can lecture on loyalty and honour?
I think its either something you feel or you don't.
SH
____________________
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
(Orwell 1984)
(Bush & Blair 2004)
_____________________
>
bigboard
Which particular generation is it that you think you are speaking for? It's
more than likely that you in fact speak only for yourself, and not everyone
else in your generation.
--
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it
flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
-- Matt Groening
Christopher
wrote:
>By bidding for the Olympics so as to stir a tidal wave of public pride
>in the nation.
Or landing them with a massive debt they will take decades to pay
back.
Christopher
+++++++++++
"Never take anything for granted."
Benjamin Disraeli
Claire Easthope
> "Claire Easthope" <Claire....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:KRnwd.272$pf4...@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>
>>JA** wrote:
>>
>>
>>>A nation that forgets its history is like a man who loses his memory.
>>>
>>> This is what I think Nu Lab want. I reckon they are trying
>>>to brain wash our brightest kids into despising their own nation.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>''You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of
>>the human race.'' - George Bernard Shaw
>>
>>The generation gap is quite noticeable. It is not that we hate our
>>country but that our notion of citizenship tends to be different to the
>>older generations. When I get a lecture on loyalty and honour I have to
>>ask who is qualified to give me a lecture and on what?
>
>
> I don't know whether you can lecture on loyalty and honour?
> I think its either something you feel or you don't.
See that's the thing isn't it! Right-Wingers tend to think that they are
the only ones that feel it sufficiently and 'my country right or wrong'
don't show weakness in front of our enemies etc...,
Claire Easthope
> Claire Easthope wrote:
>
>
>>JA** wrote:
>>
>>
>>>A nation that forgets its history is like a man who loses his memory.
>>>
>>> This is what I think Nu Lab want. I reckon they are trying
>>>to brain wash our brightest kids into despising their own nation.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>''You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of
>>the human race.'' - George Bernard Shaw
>>
>>The generation gap is quite noticeable. It is not that we hate our
>>country but that our notion of citizenship tends to be different to the
>>older generations. When I get a lecture on loyalty and honour I have to
>>ask who is qualified to give me a lecture and on what?
>>
>
>
> Which particular generation is it that you think you are speaking for? It's
> more than likely that you in fact speak only for yourself, and not everyone
> else in your generation.
>
I'm making some general observations based on my conversations with
people. I am not saying this is how X think and this is how Y think.
Claire Easthope
Imperialism IS discredited. Whatever your views on immigration you'll
just have to deal with this fact so that we can move on.
SH
Well, my view is that their are such severe weaknesses in the
current Capitalist system that those at the top of the tree, or
should I say pyramid, are forced both morally and economically
into such a tight defensive position that they have no choices
available to them but to attack the proletarians.
Typically the same are made to feel morally inadequate and disloyal to
their fellow countrymen. Pet words such as Marxist, Libertarian,
Anarchist etc. are used with little real understanding, other
than to promote a general feeling of unease and a convenient
category for the dumping of revolutionary ideas that might
upset the status quo. Proletarians are portrayed as lazy mindless
sots who prey on the good will of hardworking industrialists.
This seems to be more typical in America than in Britain,
although any far right propagandist will promote that form
of selective categorising. The association of socialist views
with totalitarianism is of course nothing but a far right myth.
A closer association would be popular nationalism and
real democracy but of course that must be squashed by every
means at their disposal. It would be giving away the moral
high-ground that must be preserved at any cost which has
been born out in conflicts such as those in Nicaragua, Vietnam
etc. etc.
Associating themselves with the Church is another way of
self appointing morality. Bush and Blair for example, will
readily speak of their religious convictions while
inappropriately defend their aggressive and immoral actions in
the third world.
It might be a good idea to say something in defence of Capitalism
which has very little to offer us morally. Its only saving grace is that
it has given us a structure and a framework to develop our society
having been around since civilisation began, in various forms. The
current form of industrialised capitalism requires the abundance of
cheap energy which turns out to be the Achilles Heel of the current
system. No adequate energy policy has been devised to ensure
the continuance of cheap power. Half the worlds population has no
electricity and they all want it. Millions of Chinese and Indians are on
the verge of acquiring a motor vehicle. Norway, Britain and the U.S
have all peaked in their oil production and due to their expanding
economies are now forced to buy foreign oil and become
dependent on foreign exports. 5% of the worlds population
(the U.S) use 25% of the worlds energy and its growing.
To put it bluntly at present the world is heading for an economic
disaster as the third world mechanises there is just not enough
oil to go around. Alternative energy is totally insufficient to bridge
the gap in time to make a difference to an economic collapse.
The answer as far as I can see must come from our attitude to
Capitalism and the use of energy. Uncompromised morals must be
at the centre of a new social structure which at the same time
must encompass and absorb the current system in such a way
as to create as little hardship as possible but of course is
inevitable to the wealthy. The challenges are huge of course
as somehow the will to develop but at a sustainable rate within
a universal moral framework must be found.
As far as I can see, if a new cheap energy source that doesn't
require years of development to replace the current systems
can not be discovered the world will be in desperate trouble
well within the next fifty years.
To summarise the point in relation to the original argument I
feel that a strong sense of nationalism will help in our
ability to work together to solve the problems that lie
ahead but that should be matched with a deep respect for
our neighbours in order that we survive globally.
Stephen Glynn
Really? Do you or many people you know feel 'discredited and contrite'
about being British? Can't say it's something I or many people I know
bother about much.
Steve
Claire Easthope
Nonsense, complete and utter racism – we’ll never be a ‘predominantly’
Asian or Black country. There are places with a majority Asian community
such a Southall but that ‘birds of a feather flock together’ is not
really surprising especially with the help of a brick through the
window! There is a big difference between the immigrants and their
children who grew up here. They are a different variety of British but
they are British in the sense that they belong here. I imagine that once
we get into second and third generations and mix things up a bit (which
is happening already) future generations will find the anti-Asian racism
of the 20th Century just as incomprehensible as the anti-Irish racism of
the 19th Century. :-)
Claire Easthope
> Claire Easthope wrote:
>
>
>>JA** wrote:
>>
>>
>>>A nation that forgets its history is like a man who loses his memory.
>>>
>>> This is what I think Nu Lab want. I reckon they are trying
>>>to brain wash our brightest kids into despising their own nation.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>''You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of
>>the human race.'' - George Bernard Shaw
>>
>>The generation gap is quite noticeable. It is not that we hate our
>>country but that our notion of citizenship tends to be different to the
>>older generations. When I get a lecture on loyalty and honour I have to
>>ask who is qualified to give me a lecture and on what?
>>
>
>
> Which particular generation is it that you think you are speaking for? It's
> more than likely that you in fact speak only for yourself, and not everyone
> else in your generation.
>
I’m speaking for myself and making some general observations from
conversations I have had with all sorts of people. I am not say X think
this and Y think that. Nor am I saying that people who feel the same
about identity issues will necessarily agree about politics but it does
help.
krishan
murdering and robbing the world of its riches, it would be Ok, but they
are still doing it!!!!!
krishan
Claire Easthope
> Britain has one of the worst records of human beings, going around
> murdering and robbing the world of its riches, it would be Ok, but they
> are still doing it!!!!!
>
> krishan
True, and what angelic people do you belong to?
MT
Claire....@ntlworld.com says...
Claire Easthope
How do you suppose British imperialism worked? 'oh look the English are
coming, they seem like nice chaps lets give them our homelands!' well I
never and Cromwell was just on holiday over in Ireland for starters! :-)
MT
Claire....@ntlworld.com says...
MT
Also forgot to add, the republican irish always seem to deny their part
in British imperialism. When in point of fact they're just as guilty,
when over a third of the British army was irish born and bred!!
Claire Easthope
Tell me, would we be in Iraq if there was no oil there? Why does the
Arab-Israeli peace-process get so much attention whilst Africa does not?
Could it be that our priorities are directed by economic incentives by
any chance? Many have described Bush & Blair's foreign policy as
'economic imperialism'. Sure they’ll get a democracy out of it maybe
though!There may be some argument for this as ‘political realism’ even.
Claire Easthope
I don't know about your figures but agree what you are saying about the
republicans - certainly it was in no shape or form an endorsement of
them. Ireland is a difficult example I know because technically it was
domestic British territory.
MT
> MT wrote:
> > In article <_eYwd.448$sc....@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>,
> > Claire....@ntlworld.com says...
> >
> >>MT wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <RPXwd.221$I33...@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
> >>>Claire....@ntlworld.com says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>krishan wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Britain has one of the worst records of human beings, going around
> >>>>>murdering and robbing the world of its riches, it would be Ok, but they
> >>>>>are still doing it!!!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>krishan
> >>>>
> >>>>True, and what angelic people do you belong to?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>If it's true, go on then where?
> >>
> >>
> >>How do you suppose British imperialism worked? 'oh look the English are
> >>coming, they seem like nice chaps lets give them our homelands!' well I
> >>never and Cromwell was just on holiday over in Ireland for starters! :-)
> >>
> >
> > How does this tie in with the bit above that states "Still doing it"?
>
> Tell me, would we be in Iraq if there was no oil there? Why does the
> Arab-Israeli peace-process get so much attention whilst Africa does not?
> Could it be that our priorities are directed by economic incentives by
> any chance? Many have described Bush & Blair's foreign policy as
> though!There may be some argument for this as â political realismâ even.
>
I'm sure there's other political considerations for being in iraq other
than oil, for the simple reason we're not in other oil producing states.
But as I asked you before, where do you get the and I quote
"Britain has one of the worst records of human beings, going around
murdering and robbing the world of its riches, it would be Ok, but they
are still doing it!!!!!"
Since when was iraq the world?
MT
by all means check up.
Let me get this straight, you're being a bit vague, are you saying that
the irish troops were somehow pressganged and didn't want to be part of
it?
If so, explain Lord Wellington (he was irish born and bred), Commander in
chief 2nd only to king george himself of several european campaigns.
Claire Easthope
Other states we can do business with.
> But as I asked you before, where do you get the and I quote
> "Britain has one of the worst records of human beings, going around
> murdering and robbing the world of its riches, it would be Ok, but they
> are still doing it!!!!!"
>
> Since when was iraq the world?
>
Not my words were they?
>
MT
> >>though!There may be some argument for this as �political realism� even.
> >>
> >
> > I'm sure there's other political considerations for being in iraq other
> > than oil, for the simple reason we're not in other oil producing states.
>
> Other states we can do business with.
>
> > But as I asked you before, where do you get the and I quote
> > "Britain has one of the worst records of human beings, going around
> > murdering and robbing the world of its riches, it would be Ok, but they
> > are still doing it!!!!!"
> >
> > Since when was iraq the world?
> >
>
> Not my words were they?
>
what he said.
Claire Easthope
I would have been more diplomatic about it but yes I think the British
Empire was after all an empire, an unjust system of governance, and a
large one at that. Amongst some there also still seems to be a rather
imperialist way of looking at how to assert one’s influence in the world.
Claire Easthope
> My figures are a bit on the conservative side, but if you doubt me then
> by all means check up.
Show me a sourse. How many Irish admirals and officers were there as
against that figure compared to English ones?
> Let me get this straight, you're being a bit vague, are you saying that
> the irish troops were somehow pressganged and didn't want to be part of
> it?
No, I never commented did I but since you ask I would just say that
there was a barrier between the Irish and the British. Ireland was
supposedly an equal partner in the union but the English saw the Irish
as something of a threat and at times portrayed them as somehow inferior.
> If so, explain Lord Wellington (he was irish born and bred),
Well, an Anglo-Irish member of the British aristocracy in fact.
One leading Anglo-Irish peer described his experience as one of the
'Anglo-Irish' as being regarded as Irish in England, English in Ireland
and not accepted fully as belonged to either.
Stephen Glynn
While the British troops in British Army in India were certainly
predominantly Irish they were, of course, massively outnumbered by the
Indian troops who'd volunteered to serve John Company (and later the
Queen Empress).
Steve
Claire Easthope
Children in India were taught that they were British, grew up and joined
the British army and civil service the tops of which were exclusively
white. Then in Ireland too, not officially a colony but arguable the
first English colony children where also taught they were all British
even though some Brits qualified for the elite (i.e. those closest to
the English) and some didn’t. At the hart of the thing was how to reward
the loyalty of the natives without letting them get their hands on too
much power. The trick was to divide and conquer.
krishan
ceylon in 1948, maybe they were pissed off that it was us ceylon tamils
(not indian tamils) that first asked the baba's to go back home.
krishan
The Rifleman
praised the atrocties commited by the nonindiginous tamil tiger terrorists
in Sri Lanka, He's hiding over here living off benefits.
"krishan" <kri...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:41CD702B...@ntlworld.com...
librar...@*nospam*btinternet.com
<sim...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> > I don't know whether you can lecture on loyalty and honour?
>> > I think its either something you feel or you don't.
>>
>>
>> See that's the thing isn't it! Right-Wingers tend to think that they are
>> the only ones that feel it sufficiently and 'my country right or wrong'
>> don't show weakness in front of our enemies etc...,
>
>Well, my view is that their are such severe weaknesses in the
>current Capitalist system that those at the top of the tree, or
>should I say pyramid, are forced both morally and economically
>into such a tight defensive position that they have no choices
>available to them but to attack the proletarians.
You are nuts. The people at the top of the tree subsidise those
'below' them so massively that to describe it as an attack is just not
facing reality
--
cheers
www.libraryofalex.com
Wherever book may be burned, men also, in the end, are burned
librar...@*nospam*btinternet.com
<Claire....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>How do you suppose British imperialism worked? 'oh look the English are
>>>coming, they seem like nice chaps lets give them our homelands!' well I
>>>never and Cromwell was just on holiday over in Ireland for starters! :-)
>>>
>>
>> How does this tie in with the bit above that states "Still doing it"?
>
>Tell me, would we be in Iraq if there was no oil there?
Probably not, but possibly. Why does this hypothetical matter to you?
>Why does the
>Arab-Israeli peace-process get so much attention whilst Africa does not?
Because it's important to world political and economic stability, and
Africa is (in general) not
>Could it be that our priorities are directed by economic incentives by
>any chance?
Yes. And?
>Many have described Bush & Blair's foreign policy as
>'economic imperialism'. Sure they’ll get a democracy out of it maybe
>though!There may be some argument for this as ‘political realism’ even.
Indeed there is.
librar...@*nospam*btinternet.com
<Claire....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>Not my words were they?
>>>
>>
>> No they're not, but you said of them "True" so you obviously agree with
>> what he said.
>
>I would have been more diplomatic about it but yes I think the British
>Empire was after all an empire, an unjust system of governance, and a
>large one at that. Amongst some there also still seems to be a rather
>imperialist way of looking at how to assert one’s influence in the world.
The Empire was too big and too durable to be either 'good' or 'bad',
'just' and 'unjust'
From it, America got democracy, India the same, plus civil
administration etc. Both also got many dead, India many more than
America. No scales can weigh these
Some nations have more power than others. They use it. Fortunately
there is a strong correlation between liberty and strength
hw...@freeispshares.co.uk
Claire Easthope wrote:
> The Enlightenment wrote:
> > "Claire Easthope" <Claire....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:KRnwd.272$pf4...@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> >
> >>JA** wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>A nation that forgets its history is like a man who loses his
memory.
> >>>
> >>> This is what I think Nu Lab want. I reckon they are trying
> >>>to brain wash our brightest kids into despising their own nation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>''You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out
of
> >>the human race.'' - George Bernard Shaw
> >
> >
> >
> >>The generation gap is quite noticeable. It is not that we hate our
> >>country but that our notion of citizenship tends to be different to
the
> >>older generations.
> >
> >
> > Yes, its looking decidely Asian and African and soon will be
predominantly
> > so.
>
'predominantly'
> Asian or Black country. There are places with a majority Asian
community
> such a Southall but that 'birds of a feather flock together' is
not
> really surprising especially with the help of a brick through the
> window! There is a big difference between the immigrants and their
> children who grew up here. They are a different variety of British
but
> they are British in the sense that they belong here. I imagine that
once
> we get into second and third generations and mix things up a bit
(which
> is happening already) future generations will find the anti-Asian
racism
> of the 20th Century
I presume that was a mis-type and you meant anti-English Asian racism.
Sadly, this is being perpetrated by second, if not third, generation,
Asians and shows every sign of increasing, not abating.
Claire Easthope
Having studied along side British-Asians and had Asian friends I can say
that it tends to be their parents most concerned about them marrying
their own. It causes them a lot of heartache especially if they are
going out with a non-Asian. It must be very hard for this generation
because they are themselves defining what it is to be British and Asian.
It will get easier.
Claire Easthope
As empires went I do not suppose the British one was the worst. As to
liberty obviously the imperialists are freer than the colonised! Yes
given a choice between the two most would prefer being the imperialists
even though most would be the colonised, that is why as a system it was
not as fair as the current one.
Claire Easthope
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 16:17:45 GMT, Claire Easthope
> <Claire....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>How do you suppose British imperialism worked? 'oh look the English are
>>>>coming, they seem like nice chaps lets give them our homelands!' well I
>>>>never and Cromwell was just on holiday over in Ireland for starters! :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>How does this tie in with the bit above that states "Still doing it"?
>>
>>Tell me, would we be in Iraq if there was no oil there?
>
>
> Probably not, but possibly. Why does this hypothetical matter to you?
>
This whole ‘Bringing Democracy to the people of Iraq’ is very
reminiscent of ‘the white-man’s burden’ that’s all. I think Americans
are genuinely surprised that you can't kill so many people and have no
violence in retaliation. Not saying that the terrorism is in any way
defendable but it was predictable. Of course a handful of Americans are
killed and that is something to fight about! Human beings are pretty
much the same everywhere and respond in pretty much the same way to
certain things. I rather think the US Government in particular would
have made a more realistic assessment of the intelligence if they could
see past the cash registers in their eyes!
$ $
>>Why does the
>>Arab-Israeli peace-process get so much attention whilst Africa does not?
>
>
> Because it's important to world political and economic stability, and
> Africa is (in general) not
Fair enough. The best way to start would be if America stopped those
large aid cheques to Israel. Neither country benefits in terms of peace
and stability from such blatant favouritism.
>
>>Could it be that our priorities are directed by economic incentives by
>>any chance?
>
>
> Yes. And?
>
Good, a realist.
>>Many have described Bush & Blair's foreign policy as
>>'economic imperialism'. Sure they’ll get a democracy out of it maybe
>>though!There may be some argument for this as ‘political realism’ even.
>
>
> Indeed there is.
Anglo-American Political Realism! Even within that tradition the war in
Iraq could be criticised though.
Claire Easthope
> I am stateless in a way, GB handed over our land to the singhalese of
> ceylon in 1948, maybe they were pissed off that it was us ceylon tamils
> (not indian tamils) that first asked the baba's to go back home.
>
Apparently the Tamils own most of north Sri Lanka and want other parts
of the country. Apparently it is the Tamil Tigers who target innocent
Singhalese people and that is why they don't like people playing your
record very much! I gather that historically Tamils have been
discriminated against but trying to take over the place does not do
inter-community relations any good, just ask a certain Mr Gerry Adams!
librar...@*nospam*btinternet.com
<Claire....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>>How do you suppose British imperialism worked? 'oh look the English are
>>>>>coming, they seem like nice chaps lets give them our homelands!' well I
>>>>>never and Cromwell was just on holiday over in Ireland for starters! :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>How does this tie in with the bit above that states "Still doing it"?
>>>
>>>Tell me, would we be in Iraq if there was no oil there?
>>
>>
>> Probably not, but possibly. Why does this hypothetical matter to you?
>>
>This whole ‘Bringing Democracy to the people of Iraq’ is very
>reminiscent of ‘the white-man’s burden’ that’s all.
Are Indians better or worse off for having been part of the empire?
Will Iraqis be better or worse off? I think the answer to the former
is 'impossible to know' and 'probably, but TBD'
>I think Americans
>are genuinely surprised that you can't kill so many people and have no
>violence in retaliation. Not saying that the terrorism is in any way
>defendable but it was predictable.
Agreed
>Of course a handful of Americans are
>killed and that is something to fight about! Human beings are pretty
>much the same everywhere and respond in pretty much the same way to
>certain things. I rather think the US Government in particular would
>have made a more realistic assessment of the intelligence if they could
>see past the cash registers in their eyes!
>$ $
This wasn't really about money
>>>Why does the
>>>Arab-Israeli peace-process get so much attention whilst Africa does not?
>>
>>
>> Because it's important to world political and economic stability, and
>> Africa is (in general) not
>
>Fair enough. The best way to start would be if America stopped those
>large aid cheques to Israel. Neither country benefits in terms of peace
>and stability from such blatant favouritism.
America's favoritism towards Israel is often counterproductive.
Equally, Arafat had his chance with Barak, and fluffed it
>>>Many have described Bush & Blair's foreign policy as
>>>'economic imperialism'. Sure they’ll get a democracy out of it maybe
>>>though!There may be some argument for this as ‘political realism’ even.
>>
>>
>> Indeed there is.
>
>Anglo-American Political Realism! Even within that tradition the war in
>Iraq could be criticised though.
Agreed.
Claire Easthope
> On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:11:41 GMT, Claire Easthope
> <Claire....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>How do you suppose British imperialism worked? 'oh look the English are
>>>>>>coming, they seem like nice chaps lets give them our homelands!' well I
>>>>>>never and Cromwell was just on holiday over in Ireland for starters! :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>How does this tie in with the bit above that states "Still doing it"?
>>>>
>>>>Tell me, would we be in Iraq if there was no oil there?
>>>
>>>
>>>Probably not, but possibly. Why does this hypothetical matter to you?
>>>
>>
>>This whole ‘Bringing Democracy to the people of Iraq’ is very
>>reminiscent of ‘the white-man’s burden’ that’s all.
>
>
> Are Indians better or worse off for having been part of the empire?
> Will Iraqis be better or worse off? I think the answer to the former
> is 'impossible to know' and 'probably, but TBD'
>
The Indians like many, got used to being colonised. India has Asia's
oldest democracy and in terms of representation it is more of a
democracy than the UK! On the other hand it has been argued that India
was richer before it was invaded (how much truth there is in this I do
not know) I guess the same may happen with Iraqis although I am
sceptical. How would most English people respond if our homeland was
invaded? It is not even about whether there is any benefit to it - it is
about the sense of powerlessness, real or perceived, that comes with
occupation.
>>I think Americans
>>are genuinely surprised that you can't kill so many people and have no
>>violence in retaliation. Not saying that the terrorism is in any way
>>defendable but it was predictable.
>
>
> Agreed
>
>
>>Of course a handful of Americans are
>>killed and that is something to fight about! Human beings are pretty
>>much the same everywhere and respond in pretty much the same way to
>>certain things. I rather think the US Government in particular would
>>have made a more realistic assessment of the intelligence if they could
>>see past the cash registers in their eyes!
>>$ $
>
>
> This wasn't really about money
Come now! The fear was that the Saddam would invade other countries and
hold the west to ransom for his oil. Even this aside Iraq represents 11%
of the world oil supply. You bet it was about money!
>
>>>>Why does the
>>>>Arab-Israeli peace-process get so much attention whilst Africa does not?
>>>
>>>
>>>Because it's important to world political and economic stability, and
>>>Africa is (in general) not
>>
>>Fair enough. The best way to start would be if America stopped those
>>large aid cheques to Israel. Neither country benefits in terms of peace
>>and stability from such blatant favouritism.
>
>
> America's favoritism towards Israel is often counterproductive.
> Equally, Arafat had his chance with Barak, and fluffed it
>
Yes. And really Arafat is asking for what already had been given to the
Palestinians by the UN originally when the place was partitioned by
Britain. Also Israelis have a point when they criticise European outrage
at the treatment of the Palestinians in that they are ignoring far
greater crimes elsewhere. Having said that, this does not excuse what
they are doing.
hw...@freeispshares.co.uk
Claire Easthope wrote:
> The Enlightenment wrote:
>
> > news:32ebfjF...@individual.net...
> >
> >>A nation that forgets its history is like a man who loses his
memory.
> >>
> >> This is what I think Nu Lab want. I reckon they are trying
> >>to brain wash our brightest kids into despising their own nation.
> >
> >
> >
he who
> > controls the present controls the future.
> >
> > By keeping Britons feeling discredited and contrite the NuLabour
parasites
> > and hypocrites hope to avoid scrutiny and oppostion to their
ethno-marxist
> > progammes.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Imperialism IS discredited. Whatever your views on immigration you'll
> just have to deal with this fact so that we can move on.
You say imperialism is discredited, yet at the same time you seem to
accept immigration. Immigration IS imperialism! Just look at the
expanding enclaves the Asian settlers have created in our cities: areas
which are forbidden to the natives. You must know, surely, that Islam
is an imperialist ideology. Imperialism is how it started, and
imperialism is how it is expanding now in our homeland.