PC World - What it takes these days to become a British citizen
Robert Henderson
the alleged 21/7 failed bombers Muktar Said Ibrahim gained British
citizenship despite committing a crime which resulted in a five year
prison sentence. They have reported the fact of his crime but barely
questioned why it did not debar him from citizenship. It would be
interesting to know how many applications for citizenship have been
denied since 1997. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
Lee Smith
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nscl.asp?ID=7437
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration1.html
Probably doesn't give you the information you want, maybe they aren't
required by law to go into this much detail. It should be available
via a parliamentary question though.
Gaz
"Robert Henderson" <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4vmh3QBU...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
The clauses about good character are obviously there, so why arent they been
used to refuse?? Is it that the immigration service is in a complete mess,
and citizenship applications are blindly stamped?
Gaz
edi...@netpath.net
when any significant percentage of its people are non-Europeans, hate
both of Britain's historical religions (Christianity, Judaism), hate
Britain's democracy and feminism, have primary languages other than
English, and don't have a thing in common culturally with the average
guy in England whose grandparents actually were born there?
And all of this was true even before they started bombing subways.
No $4 to park! No $6 admission!
http://stores.ebay.com/INTERNET-GUN-SHOW
Ted
"Robert Henderson" <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4vmh3QBU...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
Citizenship application forms are now on display at many retail outlets.
You can pick up your application form along with your lottery ticket or
fags. Are they hoping that some of the thousands of undocumented/falsely
documented illegal immigrants will apply and have their application rubber
stamped. Maybe thats seen as the solution to the embarresment of having
hundreds of thousands of illegals wandering the streets.
Nick Cooper
<edi...@netpath.net> wrote:
>There AREN'T any Brits anymore! How long can Britain stay "British"
>when any significant percentage of its people are non-Europeans, hate
>both of Britain's historical religions (Christianity, Judaism), hate
>Britain's democracy and feminism, have primary languages other than
>English, and don't have a thing in common culturally with the average
>guy in England whose grandparents actually were born there?
Note typical American ignorance evident in last line...
--
Nick Cooper
[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk
Lost in France (& Belgium) - Two weeks in Normandy, the Somme &
Flanders; Simon the Cat of 'HMS Amethyst':
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk
Perfesser White
nick.cooper-...@DETONATORvirgin.net (Nick Cooper) wrote:
> On 30 Jul 2005 09:01:07 -0700, "edi...@netpath.net"
> <edi...@netpath.net> wrote:
>
> >There AREN'T any Brits anymore! How long can Britain stay "British"
> >when any significant percentage of its people are non-Europeans, hate
> >both of Britain's historical religions (Christianity, Judaism), hate
> >Britain's democracy and feminism, have primary languages other than
> >English, and don't have a thing in common culturally with the average
> >guy in England whose grandparents actually were born there?
>
> Note typical American ignorance evident in last line...
He's correct in his viewpoint, Nick. What cultural tie does a first
generation Muslim from Africa or Pakistan have with Britain's history in
the way a 3+ generation Briton whose parents/grandparents fought in
England's wars or served in Britain's government?
Perfesser White
_______________________________________________________________________________
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Dr. Sunil
Perfesser White wrote:
> In article <42f3f188...@news.virgin.net>,
> nick.cooper-...@DETONATORvirgin.net (Nick Cooper) wrote:
>
> > On 30 Jul 2005 09:01:07 -0700, "edi...@netpath.net"
> > <edi...@netpath.net> wrote:
> >
> > >There AREN'T any Brits anymore! How long can Britain stay "British"
> > >when any significant percentage of its people are non-Europeans, hate
> > >both of Britain's historical religions (Christianity, Judaism), hate
> > >Britain's democracy and feminism, have primary languages other than
> > >English, and don't have a thing in common culturally with the average
> > >guy in England whose grandparents actually were born there?
> >
> > Note typical American ignorance evident in last line...
>
> He's correct in his viewpoint, Nick. What cultural tie does a first
> generation Muslim from Africa or Pakistan have with Britain's history in
> the way a 3+ generation Briton whose parents/grandparents fought in
> England's wars or served in Britain's government?
So you're saying that the British Indian Army (Pakistan was
north-western India at one time) was exclusively white? And its units
didn't serve in the trenches and in Mesopotamia (Iraq) in WW1, or took
part in the North and East Africa, Burma and Italian campaigns in WW2?
Is that what you're saying???
Perfesser White
"Dr. Sunil" <dr_suni...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
No, please read it again. I did not say that Pakistanis or Muslims did
not fight in Britain's wars. I said that a newly arrived foreigner will
not have the cultural identity or cultural ties or cultural loyalty to
Britain's Western values the same as a 3+generation (or even more, an
"indigenous") Briton. For example, already the newly arrived Muslims
seek to change English society to their Islamic ideal. See:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0711/p01s04-woeu.htm
[...]
Last month, Muslim groups in Glasgow petitioned the City Council to ban
an Italian restaurant from serving alcohol to diners seated at outside
tables. Hospitals in Leicester considered banning Bibles from hospital
wards to avoid offending Muslim patients. In Birmingham, a group called
Muslims Against Advertising began a campaign of painting over billboards
that they deemed offensive to Islam - targeting ads for Levi's jeans,
perfume, and lingerie.
But these small campaigns are polarizing public opinion along ethnic and
religious lines - and creating support for Britain's far-right groups,
who present themselves as defenders of Britain's hard-won freedoms.
~
edi...@netpath.net
>Citizenship application forms are now on display at many retail outlets.
Britain for sale. Anyone else ever heard why the Roman Empire
finally collapsed?
Browse this gun show for FREE! Shop the
http://stores.ebay.com/INTERNET-GUN-SHOW
Stephen Glynn
> In article <42f3f188...@news.virgin.net>,
> nick.cooper-...@DETONATORvirgin.net (Nick Cooper) wrote:
>
>
>>On 30 Jul 2005 09:01:07 -0700, "edi...@netpath.net"
>><edi...@netpath.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There AREN'T any Brits anymore! How long can Britain stay "British"
>>>when any significant percentage of its people are non-Europeans, hate
>>>both of Britain's historical religions (Christianity, Judaism), hate
>>>Britain's democracy and feminism, have primary languages other than
>>>English, and don't have a thing in common culturally with the average
>>>guy in England whose grandparents actually were born there?
>>
>>Note typical American ignorance evident in last line...
>
>
> He's correct in his viewpoint, Nick. What cultural tie does a first
> generation Muslim from Africa or Pakistan have with Britain's history in
> the way a 3+ generation Briton whose parents/grandparents fought in
> England's wars or served in Britain's government?
>
> Perfesser White
>
A not inconsiderable number of the 2 million volunteers in the WW2
British Indian Army were, of course, Muslims -- many, AIUI, from Mirpur,
a traditional recruiting ground for the British Indian Army, whence many
people later emigrated to Bradford in particular (apparently the
Personnel Director of one of the mills there had previously been on of
their officers, so he naturally looked to Mirpur when they decided to
recruit in Pakistan after the War). Consequently, a fair number of
'first generation' Muslims from Pakistan doubtless have parents or
grandparents who fought in at least one of Britain's wars.
Going rather further back, to 1881, according to Niall Ferguson's
'Empire: How Britain Made The Modern World', 'As a proportion of the
total manpower of all British garrisons in the Empire, the Indian Army
accounted for well over half (62%)' (and by that he means Indian
troops). Described by Lord Salisbury as 'an English barrack in the
Oriental Seas from which we may draw any number of troops without paying
for them', British India provided troops for more than half a dozen
campaigns, from China to Uganda, in the half century before 1914.
Again, many of them will have been Muslims, since that's the religion of
many of what the British regarded as 'the martial races' of India, from
whom the Army was primarily recruited.
Steve
--
"It has been said," he began at length, withdrawing his eyes
reluctantly from an usually large insect upon the ceiling and
addressing himself to the maiden, "that there are few
situations in life that cannot be honourably settled, and
without any loss of time, either by suicide, a bag of gold, or
by thrusting a despised antagonist over the edge of a
precipice on a dark night."
Stephen Glynn
The Glasgow story is reported in the Glasgow Evening Times at
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5039699.html.
Two Muslim charities based near the restaurant objected, fruitlessly it
would appear, to the restaurant's application to alter the terms of its
licence.
'despite the protest, council officials are recommending the application
be passed.
'The restaurant has street tables but as yet it has no permission to
sell alcohol or provide a table service.
'A number of city bars and restaurants serve alcohol outside and more
are set to apply to as the ban on smoking in public places is due to
begin next April.
'Gambrino owner Ken Graham said: "You do get objections to this sort of
application, quite often from church groups or charities.
'"However, it seems strange to us as we don't have a mosque on our
doorstep, but everybody is entitled to their opinion."'
IOW, it seems the local Muslims in Glasgow are doing no more than do the
local Calvinists and Salvation Army -- objecting, in the normal way, to
a licensing application and having their objection politely ignored.
I honestly do not see why this is considered such a big deal.
Perfesser White
Stephen Glynn <stephe...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
It will become a problem when their (i.e., Muslims, animists, what have
you) numbers reach critical mass and they will have the political power
to make the changes to Brit life that they'd like. Look how the
government caters to them already.
Perfesser White
>
> Steve
Stephen Glynn
Don't understand. Why should I worry about Muslim religious charities
objecting, in the normal way, to an application for an extension to a
restaurant's licence -- the two groups concerned stressed, as you'll see
if you read the news story, that they weren't objecting to the sale of
alcohol inside the restaurant -- when Christian groups and alcohol abuse
charities do that every day?
As you may know, there's recently been a great deal of debate here about
a general liberalisation of our pub and casino licensing laws. These
measures have been opposed, for a variety of reasons, by the
Conservative Party, sections of the police, various alcohol and gambling
charities, church groups and many newspapers. I don't want to get into
the rights and wrongs of the debate, but I'm sure you'll agree that such
controversy is nothing out of the ordinary. Should I start to worry if
various Muslim organisations join the debate, expressing much the same
views on alcohol and gambling as do the Salvation Army or the Methodist
Church?
Nick Cooper
<perfess...@whiteuniversity.org> wrote:
>In article <42f3f188...@news.virgin.net>,
> nick.cooper-...@DETONATORvirgin.net (Nick Cooper) wrote:
>
>> On 30 Jul 2005 09:01:07 -0700, "edi...@netpath.net"
>> <edi...@netpath.net> wrote:
>>
>> >There AREN'T any Brits anymore! How long can Britain stay "British"
>> >when any significant percentage of its people are non-Europeans, hate
>> >both of Britain's historical religions (Christianity, Judaism), hate
>> >Britain's democracy and feminism, have primary languages other than
>> >English, and don't have a thing in common culturally with the average
>> >guy in England whose grandparents actually were born there?
>>
>> Note typical American ignorance evident in last line...
>
>He's correct in his viewpoint, Nick. What cultural tie does a first
>generation Muslim from Africa or Pakistan have with Britain's history in
>the way a 3+ generation Briton whose parents/grandparents fought in
>England's wars or served in Britain's government?
And another pompous American who misses the point entirely. Back to
your reference works, "Professor"....
Perfesser White
Stephen Glynn <stephe...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
You'll know when it reaches critical mass, Steve. Then it'll be too late:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=FUA5KHYOHQ1ASCRBAEKSF
EY?type=ourWorldNews&storyID=4048649
Some Canada Muslims to Use Sharia in Civil Disputes
Sat December 27, 2003 08:04 AM ET
By Amran Abocar
TORONTO (Reuters) - Some Canadian Muslims will soon be able to use an
Islamic tribunal to arbitrate civil disputes, bringing Muslim sharia law
to a largely secular societyand raising concerns about the extent to
which it might be applied.
Canada's Islamic Institute of Civil Justice was formed in October and
plans to begin arbitrating family and business disputes early next year
using Muslim personal law in Ontario. Eventually, operations will be
expanded across Canada.
Since arbitrators' rulings can be enforced by the courts, the
development has raised eyebrows that sharia will in effect be endorsed
by Canada's secular courts.
[...]
Perfesser White
Stephen Glynn
And why do you say that's a worrying development? We've long had a
system in the UK whereby civil disputes can in certain circumstances,
with the agreement of both parties, be settled by an independent
tribunal other than a civil court. Orthodox Jews use it a lot, taking
civil disputes to the Beth Din rather than the county court for legally
binding arbitration, and the county court will, if requested by the Beth
Din, enforce the arbitration.
So long as the two parties involved have voluntarily agreed to have
their civil dispute settled by a sharia court, and so long as such a
court is recognised as authoritative, consistent and impartial by the
civil authorities, what's wrong with that?
Perfesser White
Stephen Glynn <stephe...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Steve, I don't know what else to say to you. I see the gradual breakdown
of peaceful English society into squabbling sub-groups, unequal justice
systems, and balkanization by religion, for starters. Why should you
passively accept any group promising violence if things don't go their
way:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050725/T
HREATS25/TPNational/Canada
Imam warns Ottawa to back off Muslims
BY COLIN FREEZE
MONDAY, JULY 25, 2005 PAGE A10
A controversial Toronto imam warned Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan
meeting to stop "terrorizing" Canadian Muslims.
"If you try to cross the line I can't guarantee what is going to happen.
Our young people, we can't control," Aly Hindy, the head of
Scarborough's Salaheddin Islamic Centre, at the May meeting she held in
Toronto with dozens of Muslim leaders.
Stephen Glynn
If we think they're serious about it, of course we shouldn't tolerate
people promising violence. If, however, we take the opinion that
they're just sounding off, it's often best to leave them to splutter:
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur : Why, so can I, or so can any man; / But will they come when
you do call for them? (Henry IV pt 1, 3.1).
And, of course, we shouldn't -- unless we're an excitable sub-editor --
necessarily confuse a warning about the possible results of perceived
unfairness by the authorities with a threat to do something.
But what all this has got to do with either allowing citizens, including
religious groups, to lodge objections to licensing applications when
objections from the public are invited as part of the normal procedure,
or allowing parties to civil disputes to submit the matter, by mutual
agreement, to independent arbitration by a religious body, I do not know.