British vs American "comedy" (was Re: Why Are We British So Full of Ourselves?)
Scrollkey1
>Now here's a thread. Why is 90% of British comedy so vastly superior to
>American? I have nothing against the septics personally, but if the U.S
>comedy that gets shown over here is supposed to represent the best.... I
>shudder to think.
>snip<
As one who has lived on both side of the Atlantic and endured hours of the
best and worst of both American and UK television, here's my opinion (and
just my opinion):
When British comedies are good, they are very good. When bad they are just
godawful. There is little middle ground.
Most U.S. comedies are middle ground.
The reason for this is UK broadcasters have a lot more freedom than those
in the U.S. They can do a lot of sophisticated, cutting-edge programming
because they don't have to cater exclusively to advertisers and do not
live and die with the ratings. This also means they don't always have to
cater to the average viewer.
In the U.S., broadcasters sell a show to advertisers based on
demographics. Since advertisers want the broadest base for their ads, most
of the U.S shows are like U.S. beer--designed to appeal to as many people
as possible. In doing so, a lot of the flavour is taken out and it all
tastes the same. There are exceptions of course (Cheers, MASH and a few
others come to mind.)
On a related note, self-censorship of television by networks is much more
stringent in the U.S. Networks are scared to death of offending ANYONE. A
show like "Are You Being Served" could never get on the air on a major
U.S. network because of the double entendres (Mrs. Slocombe's constant
references to her pussy, for example.)
In the UK, producers don't mind offending as long as it's funny. Good for
them.
Cheers,
Russ McDermott
Emmanuel.Gustin
Richard P. Hanson (richard.hanson@*NO_UCE*.gecm.com) wrote:
: >Now here's a thread. Why is 90% of British comedy so vastly superior to
: >American? I have nothing against the septics personally, but if the U.S
: >comedy that gets shown over here is supposed to represent the best.... I
The British and US comedies are based on a different concept. US comedies
tend to be based on "emotional" jokes --- misunderstandings in
relationships, teenagers behaving foolishly, children saying funny things,
and (a large proportion) adults making all kinds of insinuations...
While the British are not hesitant to apply this method, their best comedy
is based on more intellectual jokes, or what should perhaps be called
"logical" jokes. Hence they have a larger repertoire.
Or, in an alternative wording: US comedy tends to be based almost
exclusively on the emotional awkwardness of a situation, while British
comedy tends to exploit the factual absurdity of a situation.
Finally, the British are willing to assume a more intelligent public than
US television makers. It is, after all, very difficult to image that any
person in an US comedy would say:
The identity of the official whose alleged responsibility for this
hypothetical oversight has been the subject of recent discussion, is
not shrouded in quite such impenetrable obscurity as certain previous
disclosures may have led you to assume, but, not to put too fine a
point on it, the individual in question is, it may surprise you to
learn, one who your present interlocutor is in the habit of
defining... by means of the perpendicular pronoun.
On US television, such long sentences just wouldn't fit in the time
between two advertisements...
Emmanuel Gustin
Martin Evening
Bruce Gyngel (excuse any incorrect spelling) on radio this week reminded
everyone that classic programs such as 'Till death us do part', 'Fawlty
Towers' and 'Blackadder' spanned 25 years of broadcasting. Our memory of a
golden age of British TV is sometimes distorted by nostalgia. British and
Americam comedies are simply different in style and I would say that
mostly this is to do with the way they are written. 'Third rock from the
sun' is a superior US show - fine writing and acting. "The Fast Show"
demonstrates that there is a wealth of new UK comic writing talent. Both
make me laugh, what more can one ask for?
Why though do TV execs try to convert successful sit-coms to another
culture? Atlantic crossings always seem to end in embarrassing failure.
eg. 'Men behaving badly' converted to satisfy the tastes of politically
correct US audiences and 'The Golden girls' translated to 'Brighton
Belles' - accept no imitations, the originals are always best!
BTW, (and back to politics) Chris Morris has eventually been allowed a run
of his satirical show 'Brass eye' which conned Home Office Minister Tom
Sackville into asking questions in the House of Commons about a new danger
drug called "cake", that is sweeping the nation.
PS: Apparently Noel Edmonds doesn't like this new show, so it should
definitely be worth watching.
Cheers, Martin Evening
John Lynch
In article <32E91F...@ubspamfree.com>, Moth <Matthew.Turnbull@ubspam
free.com> writes
>Very true. It's a hot potato. If we do nothing it could turn into a
>banana skin.
Are you nuts?
--
John Lynch
Moth
No, I am a "Yes Prime Minister" fan (unless you class that as nuts),
This is the feedline for Bernard who replies (roughly):
"Er, Minister, with respect, a hot potato cannot become a banana skin. If
we do nothing, a hot potato merely becomes a cold potato."
Perhaps it's funnier in context. :)
Moth.
--
You're talking loud and saying nothing,walking proud and going nowhere
fast" - Martin Fry. Disclaimer: standard My views not those of:
Union Bank of Switzerland / Schweizerische Bankgesellschaft
DEPT/OUOU-XXX +41 1 236 9999 email: Firstna...@ubs.ch
Andy Dingley
The moving finger of mar...@evening.demon.co.uk (Martin Evening)
having written:
>'Third rock from the sun' is a superior US show - fine writing and acting.
It's a good idea for a one-off, or would make a fine theme for a
repeated sketch on Harry Enfield (or many others). As it is, the
demands of US TV syndication have stretched it into an over-long run
of far too many episodes to keep the joke fresh.
--
Smert' Spamionem
Derek Parker
In message <32f5efe3...@news.ozemail.com.au>
st...@oz-email.com.au (Stix) writes:
> Oh, before you ask, NO I have NEVER watched them.
May I ask what you know about them, then? No, they're not great
drama, but Neighbours has tackled in the last six months many
problems faced by young people, including drugs and dyslexia.
Maybe you should tgake a look before you condemn so wholeheartedly?
Only a suggestion...!
Derek.
Mike Dickson
In article <199702041...@zetnet.co.uk> parke...@zetnet.co.uk wrote...
> May I ask what you know about them, then? No, they're not great
> drama, but Neighbours has tackled in the last six months many
> problems faced by young people, including drugs and dyslexia.
What do you mean by 'tackle'? Having written an unbelievably crap plot
about something and had some people woodenly act out the equally wooden
dialogue isn't 'tackling' anything; it's utilising a topic in order to
prolong the show. What earthly purpose does soap operas 'tackling' an
issue do anyone, apart from giving the mindless entertainment that they
are designed to give?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Musselburgh, Scotland, EH21 6NL
mi...@blackcat.demon.co.uk - Fax 0131-653-6124 - Columnated Ruins Domino
Junk e-mails will be charged at $1000 US each : Mastercard/Visa/Amex welcome
Andrew Freeman
In article <CheetahPRO_...@blackcat.demon.co.uk>, Mike Dickson
<mi...@blackcat.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <199702041...@zetnet.co.uk> parke...@zetnet.co.uk wrote...
>
>> May I ask what you know about them, then? No, they're not great
>> drama, but Neighbours has tackled in the last six months many
>> problems faced by young people, including drugs and dyslexia.
>
>What do you mean by 'tackle'? Having written an unbelievably crap plot
>about something and had some people woodenly act out the equally wooden
>dialogue isn't 'tackling' anything; it's utilising a topic in order to
>prolong the show. What earthly purpose does soap operas 'tackling' an
>issue do anyone, apart from giving the mindless entertainment that they
>are designed to give?
What an unbelievably crap statement! Tv soaps are the ONLY programmes
on TV that tackle serious social issues. think back to the sixties when
we had all those films and TV programmes which affected social change -
Kathy Come Home was one which led to the formation of SHELTER. Where
are the TV programmes today which do this - there are none except
Eastenders, Coronation Street and Brookside - these are the only
programmes which show ordinary people, struggling against the odds to
make a living. if that's "mindless entertainment" then tune me in for
more!
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Musselburgh, Scotland, EH21 6NL
> mi...@blackcat.demon.co.uk - Fax 0131-653-6124 - Columnated Ruins Domino
> Junk e-mails will be charged at $1000 US each : Mastercard/Visa/Amex welcome
>
--
Andy Freeman
Paul Gardner
In article <hq4aaGA4...@chesterfieldbc.demon.co.uk>, Andrew Freeman
<afre...@chesterfieldbc.demon.co.uk> wrote
>What an unbelievably crap statement! Tv soaps are the ONLY programmes
>on TV that tackle serious social issues. think back to the sixties when
>we had all those films and TV programmes which affected social change -
>Kathy Come Home was one which led to the formation of SHELTER. Where
>are the TV programmes today which do this - there are none except
>Eastenders, Coronation Street and Brookside - these are the only
>programmes which show ordinary people, struggling against the odds to
>make a living.
Only in the tackiest, most exploitative way imaginable. I don't object
in principle to soaps trying to inject a dose of social realism into
their mindless pap. The problem is that these issues are always bolted
on in a clumsy, unsubtle manner that I generally feel cheapens the
subject.
If you actually met some of the smug, middle-class prats who go around
patting each other's backs for raising the plebs' consciousness and
imagining themselves to be living close to the edge (in Islington!), you
might feel a compulsion to smash them in the face.
Oops, AJ, I might be exposing my dysfunctional background - stay tuned
in case I need you to apologise for my actions.
--
Paul Gardner (pa...@slippy.demon.co.uk - a spam-free zone)
"If we all spit together, we'll drown the bastards."
Andrew Freeman
In article <KmdsKlAW...@slippy.demon.co.uk>, Paul Gardner
<r...@nospam.com> writes
>In article <hq4aaGA4...@chesterfieldbc.demon.co.uk>, Andrew Freeman
><afre...@chesterfieldbc.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>What an unbelievably crap statement! Tv soaps are the ONLY programmes
>>on TV that tackle serious social issues. think back to the sixties when
>>we had all those films and TV programmes which affected social change -
>>Kathy Come Home was one which led to the formation of SHELTER. Where
>>are the TV programmes today which do this - there are none except
>>Eastenders, Coronation Street and Brookside - these are the only
>>programmes which show ordinary people, struggling against the odds to
>>make a living.
>
>Only in the tackiest, most exploitative way imaginable. I don't object
>in principle to soaps trying to inject a dose of social realism into
>their mindless pap. The problem is that these issues are always bolted
>on in a clumsy, unsubtle manner that I generally feel cheapens the
>subject.
>
>If you actually met some of the smug, middle-class prats who go around
>patting each other's backs for raising the plebs' consciousness and
>imagining themselves to be living close to the edge (in Islington!), you
>might feel a compulsion to smash them in the face.
A very good point, succinctly put!
>
>Oops, AJ, I might be exposing my dysfunctional background - stay tuned
>in case I need you to apologise for my actions.
>
>
--
Andy Freeman
Mike Dickson
In article <hq4aaGA4...@chesterfieldbc.demon.co.uk> afre...@chesterfieldbc.demon.co.uk wrote...
> What an unbelievably crap statement! Tv soaps are the ONLY programmes
> on TV that tackle serious social issues.
What an unbelievably crap life you must have if you really think that
important social issues are 'tackled' by soap operas, rather than
exploiting the issue for the sake of a storyline.
> Eastenders, Coronation Street and Brookside - these are the only
> programmes which show ordinary people, struggling against the odds to
> make a living.
I'm sure that mindless mass culture for bored housewives and the lame of
brain serves some purpose for those that need it.
Derek Parker
In message <CheetahPRO_...@blackcat.demon.co.uk>
mi...@blackcat.demon.co.uk (Mike Dickson) writes:
> What do you mean by 'tackle'? Having written an unbelievably crap plot
> about something and had some people woodenly act out the equally wooden
> dialogue isn't 'tackling' anything
The fact that, as you're proud to say, you have never watches a soap
is perfectly plain. Watch the current thread on 'EastEnders' about
alcoholism. The actor concerned gives a spendid performance, and
the script on the whole is far from wooden. It is an illuminating
illustration of the problem
Derek.
Mike Dickson
In article <199702071...@zetnet.co.uk> parke...@zetnet.co.uk
wrote...
> The fact that, as you're proud to say, you have never watches a soap
> is perfectly plain.
I think I know what you're trying to say, and I never said it. I have
watched soaps from time to time, although find them too superficial to
get engrossed in.
> Watch the current thread on 'EastEnders' about alcoholism.
I think you've on the 'net too long; soap operas don't have threads -
newsgroups have threads. :)
> It is an illuminating illustration of the problem
Yes, but illustrating the problem and somehow 'tackling' them are two
entirely separate issues, don't you think?