Why poor countries are poor.
Mustapha Allah
population - not enough resources for number of people living there.
Why should the rich bail out these countries who have brought poverty
on themselves?
We should help them out with seeds and tractors etc but not give them
money because this never helps the people. They should only be given
money if they limit there populations like China is doing.
Paul Hyett
<adria...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote in alt.politics.british :
What we need to give them is *condoms*!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
SPierce
"Paul Hyett" <p...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:UWFTwLG$jyLL...@blueyonder.co.uk...
# That doesn't help either. Lack of *initiative* is why countries are
poor, not overpopulation alone.
Britain was poor for most of its history until a few individuals thought
more about being efficient in spinning wool and getting water out of mines.
The trouble is, you cant teach initiative. If a people don't have it they
are doomed...or nowadays move across borders, and become parasitic on those
that show it.
Don H
news:jlQXm.63796$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
each other, seeking lands to add to their Imperial Rule.
The British Crown followed the East India Company in bringing the White
Man's Burden (civilisation) to a nation which had existed quite happily,
independently, for years before Britain emerged from savagery. But the
British built the railways - the easier to extract raw materials for export
Home, there to be manufactured, for sale abroad.
India, like China, showed no gratitude, but kicked the foreigners out.
In more recent times, African states tried independence and (horrors!)
flirted with socialism (influenced by USSR), only to have IMF loans
granted - on condition of privatisation, etc, like it or not. Corrupt
regimes took over, and rest is history.
Yes, over-population has now contributed, in all nations, to original, or
imposed, politico-economic ills - and global warming hasn't helped.
The Human Plague is plundering its Ecological Base, and the UN had
better start solving things fast (Copenhagen farce, anyone?), or we're
Doomed.
The USA is trying gunboat diplomacy in Iraq and Afghanistan, but will
probably be glad when it can pack up and go home - as from Vietnam.
DM
> "Paul Hyett" <p...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:UWFTwLG$jyLL...@blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> > On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 at 11:12:27, Mustapha Allah
>
> >>Most countries that are poor are poor for one simple reason - over
> >>population - not enough resources for number of people living there.
> >>Why should the rich bail out these countries who have brought poverty
> >>on themselves?
>
> >>We should help them out with seeds and tractors etc but not give them
> >>money because this never helps the people. They should only be given
> >>money if they limit there populations like China is doing.
>
> > What we need to give them is *condoms*!
> > --
> > Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
>
> # That doesn't help either. Lack of *initiative* is why countries are
> poor, not overpopulation alone.
> Britain was poor for most of its history until a few individuals thought
> more about being efficient in spinning wool and getting water out of mines.
> The trouble is, you cant teach initiative. If a people don't have it they
> are doomed...or nowadays move across borders, and become parasitic on those
> that show it.
Actually you can teach initiative. I've done it with quite a few
apprentices and trainees over time. People brought up in the western
industrial tradition of scientific management may find this hard to
believe, or even counterproductive:
"Now one of the very first requirements for a man who is fit to handle
pig iron as a regular occupation is that he shall be so stupid and
phlegmatic that the more nearly he resembles in his mental make-up the
ox than any other type" (Frederick Winslow, father of scientific
management)
I achieved tremendous productivity and quality increases in the steel
industry by taking the opposite approach to Mr Winslow. I treated
other workers as equals, asked their opinion on how we could be doing
things better and implemented novel solutions they suggested. I made
sure everyone was aware who had suggested the improved method and
fostered a sense of pride among workers who had suggested and
implemented a useful change.
The result was an expectation that workers would apply their minds to
improving the process rather than the Taylorist expectation they would
plod along mindlessly performing tasks as directed by management.
Race and ethnicity made no difference to me, so eventually it made no
difference to the workers either. Even a person who can barely speak
english is capable of innovation, and when they come to trust people
will take the trouble to listen to them they will communicate their
ideas.
Of course managers who are stuck in the past, or in racism and a
mindset of white superiority may find it culturally impossible to
unleash the innovative potential of their workers. They may find
themselves stuck in the Taylorist era where the "right" (read white)
men were identified and promoted to management and the rest expected
to plod along, ox like, doing as they were told.
Fortunately that era is past for most managers.
DM
SPierce
"Don H" <donlhu...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:byRXm.63811$ze1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
(snipped)
> # The good old colonialists spread out from Europe, in competition with
> each other, seeking lands to add to their Imperial Rule.
>
# They spread out because they made excellent sailing vessels and knew how
to salt fish and meat so it kept a long time.
They also were excellent sailors and had vision and navigational technology
to put action to their vision.
To not exploit such improvements would have been seen by later historians as
showing a lack of vision, as happened to the Chinese and Middle Eastern
peoples.
To call such people who attained that stage of human development 'old
colonialists' is regarding them in a pejorative sense...when if fact the
world is lucky the Europeans did it and not the Muslims or the Chinese.
You want to be truly thankful you live a civilised life, and feel lucky that
you can get civilised medical treatment and drink clean water from a tap and
switch a light on to see in the dark.
Do not regard your civilised living created from a people with intelligence
and vision as a pejorative.
Torpedo
politician or a career bureaucrat in this country?
Only idiots work hard for a living!
"DM" <d-m...@adfa.edu.au> wrote in message
news:11633b07-bd45-4a31...@g4g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
SPierce
(snipped)
>
> "DM" <d-m...@adfa.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:11633b07-bd45-4a31...@g4g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> apprentices and trainees over time. People brought up in the western
> industrial tradition of scientific management may find this hard to
> believe, or even counterproductive:
>
# You were not teaching initiative...you were teaching competence.
You could teach forever and improve the competence of ALL of them. Britain
once had thousands of competent wool spinners.
It took one thoughtful man with initiative to change the competence to
redundancy...and changed the world.
DM
Initiative is the power or ability to begin or to follow through
energetically with a plan or task; enterprise and determination. It
can be acquired through training.
Everyone is capable of having an idea. Its what a person does next
that determines whether or not they have initiative.
The potential for initiative is in everyone, but relatively few
develop that potential and develop a high level of initiative.
One of the reasons many fail to develop their initiative is
environmental. Sadly many find themselves in an environment where ant
attempt at initiative is quashed by their "superiors".
Antiquated concepts such as people not having ideas above their
station, or even scientific management concepts about the ideal worker
contribute to this stifling of initiative.
If you want a real world example of what happens when you cut through
the cultural inhibitions and actively develop initiative, take a look
at the way Japan exploded into the post-industrial age once they
embraced Total Quality Control.
TQC is old hat now, the new paradigm is the "learning organisation".
The old world of white superiority you cling to is over, and has been
over for many years. When you and your ilk were the only ones with
access to high quality education you may have been able to cling to
your illusions, but that is no longer the case. Knowledge and
innovative ability is a global commodity now. If you think you have a
monopoly and continue to source these things from only within the
"whites only" talent pool you will soon fall behind. Perhaps in
generations to come non-white racists will then make remarks like
"white people are incapable of initiative" in the same way you deride
non-whites today.
DM
SPierce
DM
# I never said ideas are restricted to only white people. *You* thought
that. Ideas not acted upon are just that, ideas. Yes, we are all full of
them.
Initiative is something else. It also has nothing to do with 'access to
high quality education'.
It's imagining beyond what is already seen and done... then doing something
about it. High quality education can be drag on imagination.
Ships had been made for a thousand years before the European used them to
cross rough water. Someone had to imagine a possibility out there
somewhere. The Vikings had something more than an idea. That's why the
world changed.
And yes, the Japanese always did have people with initiative. They just
made some bad political decisions along the way that interupted things. But
the Americans released that capacity in them again. The Americans didn't
make them suddenly clever and innovative.
We also, because they are full of initiative and innovation, need to keep
onside with them...we will need them someday to counteract the Chinese
expansion of power.
You also see the opposite of initiative capacity happening to the British
since the war. They are fast losing the very people base that once were the
creative element within them. Mixed culture and it's strains on society
scatter the ones with initiative and attract the parasitic.
DM
There you go with the flawed idea that particular races have a
monopoly on initiative again.
You seem to recognise that the Japs have initiative and that it can be
released through education. Deming took the concept of TQC to Japan
and opened the floodgates on initiative. It is interesting to note the
Japanese feudal system acted in much the same way as western
scientific management in considering the ideal worker to be as
unthinking as an ox. Innovation was the realm of the upper classes,
who were the natural managers. The Japanese experience showed the
folly of that philosophy. Today improvements in managerial methods
have shown Taylor's ideas about the ideal worker to be just as flawed.
If Britain is languishing in the role of an also-ran in the modern
world it may be because they cling to memories of past all-white glory
instead of unleashing the potential of every worker like the rest of
the world. Keep that outmoded style of thinking and your "superior"
whites will end up filling only the most menial roles, the ones that
are most suited to inflexible workers who are indistinguishable from
oxen.
DM
Eunometic
And then you would have noticed that in some cases the effort was
wasted or the result went away when your enrichments disappeared as
well.
80% of intelligence is genetic. The remaining 20% is educational
pretty much an established matter I believe though it is of course
incongruents with those that prefer to blame most of the words ills on
White folks. If their a minority they get a pass, if their a White
themselves they get to be a hypocirt doing a sham mia culpa for public
show.
>
> I achieved tremendous productivity and quality increases in the steel
> industry by taking the opposite approach to Mr Winslow. I treated
> other workers as equals, asked their opinion on how we could be doing
> things better and implemented novel solutions they suggested. I made
> sure everyone was aware who had suggested the improved method and
> fostered a sense of pride among workers who had suggested and
> implemented a useful change.
Yes, that's how I 'manage'. I train, close the learning loop,
encourage respect, keep the psychopath CEO of everyones back, develop
cooperation, avoid recrimination and focus on a solution etc etc.
Notice how there are only a few people capable of this sort of
intelligent leadership? Notice that after a while the structure you
built up declines unless you've managed to cultivate a good successor
and lieutenants.
Its IQ, that's all. Intelligent people tend to overestimate the
intelligence around themselves.
>
> The result was an expectation that workers would apply their minds to
> improving the process rather than the Taylorist expectation they would
> plod along mindlessly performing tasks as directed by management.
>
> Race and ethnicity made no difference to me, so eventually it made no
> difference to the workers either. Even a person who can barely speak
> english is capable of innovation, and when they come to trust people
> will take the trouble to listen to them they will communicate their
> ideas.
Race plays not part in getting a job done nor should it. Competence
is the key. However that doesn't mean that the lower IQs that have
been measured in Blacks isn't real.
How come then there is a pigmentocracy in the world?
However race does play a part when the failure of non white
individuals and nations is blamed on whites.
This is unfair in the Whites and it also excuses non-White leaders of
their responssibillity. Its a common ploy. Guilt and blame.
Apartheid Sth Africa built some 500 hospitals with some 600 beds just
for Blacks. They are now in Majority rule Sth Africa falling apart
with no x-ray machines and brocken windows. Apartheid Sth Africa had
1800 murders per anum, Black rule St Africa now has 36,000-40,000.
Most whites are self employed there now: you simply can't get a
corporate job or government job due to the racial quota system.
Soon it will be like that in the USA.
>
> Of course managers who are stuck in the past, or in racism and a
> mindset of white superiority may find it culturally impossible to
> unleash the innovative potential of their workers.
You are misrepresenting racists.
Its clear that some races have an average IQ distribution that is much
lower than the White western one.
Education systems must be made to accomodate that. Blaming Whitey
and forcing endless guilt and reparations on him is not acceptable to
Whites.
Its quite easy to treat non-Whites with respect and to expect that
they might show competence and leadership. Its mad to expect them to
actually achieve success in the same numbers and its even mader to
blame their failure in White intelligence.
If you want equality you could perhaps develop a cryogenic minor
labotomy to be applied to Whites, East Asians and Jews.
Eunometic
Nonsene. Japan began rapid and intelligent industrialisaion in the
mid 19th century. They were quickly able to assimilate ideas,
implement them and then imporve on them. They were flexile enough to
educate their females in order to educate their children.
They were easily able to implement TQC ideas because they were already
intelligent enough to understand them.
They already had gunpowder and guns for 600 years and writing for
thousand or more.
East asians are intelligent, though they were held back by their
political organisation and ideology.
You will never get a Japanese or Chinese style economic revolution in
Africa.
>
> TQC is old hat now, the new paradigm is the "learning organisation".
TQC didn't build japan. They would have easily done so without help
from the west. The post war order of relatively free trade allowed
them to create wealth by trade and purchase the raw materials they
needed. TQC was merely one of many techniques they could have used.
I have an MBA and understand management jargon.
You will certainly have some luck implementing various managment and
leadeship strategies but it is bounded by the fundemenatal
intelligence of the 'material' you work with.
>
> The old world of white superiority you cling to is over,
White superiority in average inteloligence is founded on genetic
reality and contained withing our DNA. It won't disappear. East
Asians are our equals and Jews our only superior.
If Whites are laid low it will be becuase of left leanding policies
that 'tax' Whites, expecially poorer one or advantage blacks and
certain other races by offering them racial quotas This is the
situation in Sth Africa and the USA.
Blaming Whitey will inevitably produce stronger White racial
consiciousness.
DM
My observation is that there is a wider variation of intelligence
among members of a race than there is between different races. I also
observe that IQ can be dramatically affected by environment.
Another observation is that IQ alone is not a sufficient predictor of
success in any field. Those who rise to the top and lead often have
better developed political and social skills than those lower down in
the organisational structure.
Yet another observation is that some people get a kick start in these
areas by being born into the right families, or possessing some
desirable characteristic other than raw intelligence.
A goatherd in Ethiopia might have the raw intelligence necessary to
cure cancer, increase the efficiency of solar cells a hundredfold or
bring lasting peace to the Middle East, but without the opportunity to
become educated, develop social and language skills and without
sufficient personal means to sustain himself, he will herd goats or
starve.
Western society attempts to bring all its human resources beyond mere
subsistence and unleash more of their potential. Any society with the
means (and willingness) to do this will dramatically improve its lot.
There is nothing inherently superior about white people in this area.
They might have been the first to industrialise, but nowadays
knowledge is transmitted globally and the monopoly white people once
enjoyed is broken. In India, for instance, there were 48 million
university graduates in 2004. That's twice as many university
graduates as we have people in Australia. By now there are probably
more university graduates in India than there are people in the UK.
Traditionally non-white countries like India now have a greater
industrial capacity than the UK and the professionals needed to lead
and improve into the future. Importing white managerial talent is no
longer necessary, in fact India now exports professional services to
the UK, USA and Australia, among many other countries.
Poor nutrition and lack of basic education still plague developing
nations and fuel criticism that non-whites are as dumb as dogshit. But
the truth is that white people with poor nutrition and a deficient
education score badly on IQ tests too.
On a more micro level I've taken in children from traditionally
disadvantaged groups and provided a similar standard of nutrition,
education and personal care I gave to my natural children. By age 2
there are obvious differences between the children I cared for and
their relatives still living in disadvantage. By age 6 there is a
dramatic difference in academic performance.
The biggest difference I observe is in confidence and attitude
however. "My" kids see problems as a challenge, set about solving them
with ingenuity and innovation. Their disadvantaged siblings sit down
and wait for someone else to fix things up.
On a national scale I see no reason the results would be different.
DM
Andy
Intelligence is the ability to look, listen , learn and love.
People with downs syndrome can still do this..
Bigots can't- they don't want to learn, no will, no way.
Money is made through sharing not hoarding. Hard work is done because
people go the extra mile , not work to rule.
Selfishness doesn't create wealth - it traps it and kills it..
Sexist and racist financiers are killing your wealth. Not open minded
men and women of all ethnicities, races, sexualities and faiths!
regn.pickfod
And Elvis is alive and well, living in a caravan park just outside of
Mehmfis.
Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF
Memphis. And I know that's true because I saw him serving fries to Michael
Jackson at a Maccas over there.
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
- KRudd at his finest.
"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
- Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.
"This is the recession we had to have!"
- Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.
"Silly old bugger!"
- Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.
"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
- Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.
"A billion trees ..."
- Borke, pissed as a newt again.
"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor
general!"
- Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.
"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
- FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.
"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
- KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.
"We'll just change it all when we get in."
- Garrett the carrott
Eunometic
What you are saying its there is an overlap.
Lets put some numbers to that.
White mean IQ 100, Black American IQ 85.
16% of Whites have an IQ over 115. Thats the IQ you need to be a
doctor or high grade engineer.
2.5% of Whites have an IQ over 115. Mininmal.
Only about 15%-20% of Blacks have an IQ over 100 whereas 50% of Whites
do.
This is despite decades of 'affirmitive action'
Of course folks are trying to 'attack' the credibillity of the data
and claim the 'gap' is closing at least in the USA.
>
> Another observation is that IQ alone is not a sufficient predictor of
> success in any field.
It is actually and extremely good preductor. Do well in an IQ test in
primary or middle school and you will have higher income, a more
stable marriage, longer life span, lower divorce rate, less health
issues.
Sure there are other factors: sometimes.
> Those who rise to the top and lead often have
> better developed political and social skills than those lower down in
> the organisational structure.
If you have high IQ you tend to also have excellent social skills and
people skills.
The 'paradyme' low IQ but high EQ (emotional and social skills)
doesn't exist.
>
> Yet another observation is that some people get a kick start in these
> areas by being born into the right families, or possessing some
> desirable characteristic other than raw intelligence.
A factor but not the main one. No matter where you start in life high
IQ moves you up while low IQ moves you down.
>
> A goatherd in Ethiopia might have the raw intelligence necessary to
> cure cancer, increase the efficiency of solar cells a hundredfold or
> bring lasting peace to the Middle East, but without the opportunity to
> become educated, develop social and language skills and without
> sufficient personal means to sustain himself, he will herd goats or
> starve.
>
The goathered in Ethipia is surrounded by folks with an IQ of say 90
his society will function at that level. Pligh him with foreign aid
and he will do better untill you take the aid away again. Things soon
find their level again.
> Western society attempts to bring all its human resources beyond mere
> subsistence and unleash more of their potential. Any society with the
> means (and willingness) to do this will dramatically improve its lot.
Or a bunch of those indivduals rather than rasing themselves up much
pull down the society they've immigrated into to.
That's why black crime in the UK and USA is 8 times white crime.
>
> There is nothing inherently superior about white people in this area.
Measurements say otherwise.
> They might have been the first to industrialise, but nowadays
> knowledge is transmitted globally
Crap. Transmit it but if not many are capable of comprehending then
the nation stays poor.
> and the monopoly white people once
> enjoyed is broken.
Which is why millions try and immigrate legally and illegally every
year.
In India, for instance, there were 48 million
> university graduates in 2004. That's twice as many university
> graduates as we have people in Australia. By now there are probably
> more university graduates in India than there are people in the UK.
Indians are not too bad in the IQ stakes. Its still a shithole.
>
> Traditionally non-white countries like India now have a greater
> industrial capacity than the UK and the professionals needed to lead
> and improve into the future. Importing white managerial talent is no
> longer necessary, in fact India now exports professional services to
> the UK, USA and Australia, among many other countries.
India exports indians. Out of 1.5 billion there should be some smart
ones.
>
> Poor nutrition and lack of basic education still plague developing
> nations and fuel criticism that non-whites are as dumb as dogshit. But
> the truth is that white people with poor nutrition and a deficient
> education score badly on IQ tests too.
The IQ gap tests have controlled for nutrition.
Twin stutides, studies of Blacks adopted to White familes etc.
>
> On a more micro level I've taken in children from traditionally
> disadvantaged groups and provided a similar standard of nutrition,
> education and personal care I gave to my natural children. By age 2
> there are obvious differences between the children I cared for and
> their relatives still living in disadvantage. By age 6 there is a
> dramatic difference in academic performance.
Subjective opionion.
Obviously if you work in a international organisation you only have
contact with elites.
>
> The biggest difference I observe is in confidence and attitude
> however. "My" kids see problems as a challenge, set about solving them
> with ingenuity and innovation. Their disadvantaged siblings sit down
> and wait for someone else to fix things up.
>
> On a national scale I see no reason the results would be different.
Delusional.
Folks are poor because despite being given opportuntiy they can't make
use of it.
“…it appears that inequality does not kill and people do
not die younger in countries with greater inequalities in income. The
macro data from all
nations show that, once national IQ is controlled, neither income
inequality nor economic
development has an independent effect on male and female life
expectancy, infant mortality
rate or age-specific mortality rate for individuals aged 15-19. Only
national IQ has a very
strong and significantly positive effect on these measures of
population health…….General
intelligence may be the key that allows individuals in evolutionary
novel contemporary
society to recognize health risks and deal with them appropriately”.
Andy
With his daughters Lisa Marie and Mary Elizabeth. Who changed her
named to Whitney, for some reason.
DM
Looks to me that you have been reading "The Bell Curve" but missed out
on reading the subsequent criticism.
The trick cyclists who ran the tests used in the longitudinal studies
upon which the "Bell Curve" findings are based admit that people with
more schooling score higher than those with less. An obvious
confounding factor, and one which reinforces the view that environment
affects IQ scores.
Your fears about a dumbing down of IQ in the USA seem to be at odds
with a phenomenon known as the "Flynn Effect".
There are many references to this on the web but the Wikipedia entry
is as good as any:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
Your reference to twin studies is a little dubious IMO. It would be
highly unethical to perform human experiments in which one of the
subjects was knowingly malnourished while a control twin was
adequately nourished. Even in the USA ;-) Without knowing one twin was
malnourished and the other adequately fed, researchers would have to
fall back on cultural stereotyping for their results. I have a bit to
do with child protection and I can assure you that being white does
not ensure a family will provide children with adequate food. Even
more sadly I am aware some foster families provide a lesser standard
of care to foster children than they provide for biological children
in the same household.
I also wonder at the average IQ of white Americans being 100, as you
state. 100 is number the IQ of the population as a whole is normalised
around. If, as you say, whites have a higher IQ than the population
average (which includes non-whites), the average IQ of whites would be
over 100.
Returning to the reasons why poor countries are poor, lack of capital
is the most likely explanation. Even if financial capital is poured
into a country, if there is insufficient human capital and technology
to make use of it, the result is inevitable.
DM
Addinall
Whoo hoo! Where is this published BTW.
Errrrmmmmm. From memory,a nigger invented the 8088/6.
Hullo David.
Fuck. Puts me and Turing out of the game. My IQ tests normally
hover around 175+. Never managed to stay married for more
than a few years. And my ankles are still fucked. Reckon increasing
my IQ will fix broken bones?
>
> > Sure there are other factors: sometimes.
>
> > > Those who rise to the top and lead often have
> > > better developed political and social skills than those lower down in
> > > the organisational structure.
>
> > If you have high IQ you tend to also have excellent social skills and
> > people skills.
Stupid cunt.
Distribution of wealth is the issue, not wealth itself.
You and I could sell all our property in Australia,
donate it to some African shithole, and not make
a tiny difference. Not everyone who is black are idiots.
And those that aint, aren't poor.
Africa is a mess. Mostly it's own doing. It is a shame
as the place has so many resources. Probably even
more than here. The management is fucked. Most of
them need a bullet.
Marky.
>
> DM
SPierce
(snipped)
Returning to the reasons why poor countries are poor, lack of capital
is the most likely explanation. Even if financial capital is poured
into a country, if there is insufficient human capital and technology
to make use of it, the result is inevitable.
DM
# Understand first what you mean about human capital. My meaning is the
INITIATIVE within the 'human capital' not just numbers of humans.
So if you pour Capital into Zimbabwe, what do you think will happen to it.
They have sufficiency in 'human capital'. They may even have a few people
with some professional technological background. So what do you think is
missing.
And supposing that rock-ape Mugabe was eliminated from the scene and an
intelligent leader got into power, would you assume injected Capital would
then be used by someone with initiative and enable the country to become
less poor.
Describe a possible scenario with lots of money to Zimbabwe from the World
Bank after a change of government. Please, I'm serious.
DM
You are making the mistake of counting raw numbers as human capital.
Human capital is the productive capacity of the human resources, not
just the number of people. It is possible to invest in human capital
by providing education and training to your human resources, as well
as adequate nutrition and an efficiency wage. When you do this they
become much more productive and your enterprise and their society is
better off.
You may well have a thousand peasants standing around idle, wondering
why the irrigation pump won't work, but if you add just one trained
pump mechanic you have a thousand and one people working productively
again. Poor countries may have lots of people but relatively little
human capital.
DM
Benway (original non-Zionist)
******************************
You must remember that the audience
to whom you speak, are mostly retards.
Merry Christmas
------------------
Population Growth and Global Warming
*
http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/population-growth-and-global-warming/
*
Are condoms and birth control pills more cost
effective than windmills and solar panels as tools
to curb global warming?
Yes, and by a wide margin, contends Thomas Wire, a
postgraduate researcher at the London School of
Economics and author of a recent study asserting
that family planning is nearly five times more
cost effective in mitigating global warming
emissions than green energy technologies like wind
and solar power.
"It's always been obvious that total emissions
depend on the number of emitters as well as their
individual emissions - the carbon tonnage can't
shoot down, as we want, while the population keeps
shooting up," Roger Martin, chairman of the
Optimum Population Trust, the British
environmental group that sponsored the study, said
in a statement. "The taboo on mentioning this fact
has made the whole climate change debate so far
somewhat unreal."
Yet at the recent Copenhagen climate summit -
which failed to produce any binding resolution on
curbing global warming emissions - population
control was again the solution that dared not
speak its name.
******************************
SPierce
DM
# Did you actually comprehend what I said ?
DM
My mistake.
I actually posted another reply a few minutes later that addressed
your question. Seems to have disappeared. I'll have another go.
Zimbabwe is poor in human capital. Initiative is an important form of
human capital. It can be acquired through education, training and the
opportunity to practice. Technical expertise is another kind of human
capital. In Zimbabwe there are "war veterans" barely subsisting on
land that once fed entire cities because they don't have the technical
expertise to use it efficiently.
The trick is to get what is needed where it is needed without
resources being siphoned off through corruption.
The best way to achieve this is to deliver the intangibles without
letting money anywhere near those who would skim it off.
Send people to teach those who need teaching, along with close
personal protection so they can't be intimidated into handing over
money.
If the leadership won't let that happen, a total economic blockade
rather than the token effort currently made would bring them to book.
There is no advantage in skimming off money through corruption if
there is no opportunity to spend it.
DM
SPierce
(snipped)
Zimbabwe is poor in human capital. Initiative is an important form of
human capital. It can be acquired through education, training and the
opportunity to practice.
# ok. You insist on attributing initiative to education and training. This
is despite all the education and training the British gave to Africans up
until the 1950s and they never showed a sign of initiative from it.
I have nothing further to say to you on the matter.
Petzl
wrote:
Under the name Rhodesia the country gave aid
Under the name Zimbabwe they need aid to survive
Petzl
--
Merry Christmas
He is with us at our birth and he is with us in our dying breath.
DM
Denial is a self defence mechanism many people use as an alternative
to thinking about something that may change their world view.
Initiative is a synonym for leadership. The capacity to initiate
action and follow through to achieve an objective is one of the
attributes of a good leader. It is widely recognised that development
activities can improve an individual's capacity for initiative. Anyone
who wants further information about this can Google "initiative games"
or "initiative activities"
It is difficult to find good sources of information on the web about
the practical aspects of training initiative, perversely because the
word "initiative" is so evocative that it is used in a pairing with
almost every other word to attract attention.
One source which supports the idea initiative can be taught is:
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/back/journals/2000/Vol26_2/2.htm
This source describes the deliberate transformation of the German
army, from one where tight control was exercised from the top, to an
organisation in which initiative was not just expected but demanded at
all levels. Of particular interest in the article is the observation
that initiative can be taught at the national level and change the
national character.
DM
Addinall
It does make a compelling theory...However, didn't the Germans get
beaten back by brainless short-arsed little bastards similar to
you and I?!!!
In the Australian Army (Regular) back on NCO training (I.) they taught
us
to shout at trees in Greenbank. The use of this pertikular strange
drill did not become apparent until much later in life.
The tenacity learned (it really is hard work trying to convince a
paper
gum to "DROP" from 100 yards) helps me in beating opponents
into blithering net-death each and every argument! ;-)
Vocal skills help to scare would be muggers. People really
don't know how to shout anymore. "STOP PAYING ATTENTION TO THAT
FUCKING JET,
I AM TALKING TO YOU". Of course, this century, saying 'fuck' is a bad
thing.
And certainly not to anyone in a blue panty-suit ;-) Being covered in
tatts,
snaggle-toothed, scarred and making 1 120dB noise really seems to put
people off futher social interaction. I have seen an RSM shout over a
jet with that exact phrase above.
That was impressive. And a bit scary!
I too have a cunning plan sir.......
Where does innovation come from? A hard question, and not answered
yet.
One thing is clear, there where no shortages of clever people in
Rodhesia or
Angola. Most of them are here in Brisbane or Perth. So, aiming to
IMPROVE an ability that is not readily measured, again, is a hard ask.
Chuck money? That has crealy failed for five decades. Maybe teach em
all
to be soldiers. Idi Amin was an outstanding result. As is half of
bloody
Africa today.
Like SPierce or not Dave, I respect your right to do that, but he
does have
a bloody good point, since Africa released colonial (British and
French) rule,
the place has gone pear shaped.
Mark.
>
> DM
Eunometic
I've read the subsequent criticism. The bell curve stands tall and
strong even today. School performance issues abound.
Despite the Lynn/Flynn effect the 15 point IQ gap remains if you
compare same age cohorts.
If you compare IQ's measured at the same time irrespective of age the
IQ gap is only 10.
It's still massive gap.
Agressive laws 'such as no child left behined' may be knobbling White
children by diverting resources to blacks.
IQ tests have been modified by becoming computerised. If the subject
starts performing poorly the IQ tests is 'eased up' to reduce
discouragement. This has reduced the gap by 0.7 points.
> The trick cyclists who ran the tests used in the longitudinal studies
> upon which the "Bell Curve" findings are based admit that people with
> more schooling score higher than those with less. An obvious
> confounding factor, and one which reinforces the view that environment
> affects IQ scores.
Test of IQ are effectively one of equivalent mental age normalised to
100 for a particular age group.
A sixteen year old black perform at at the mental age of a 12 year old
white. He/She has puberty about a year earlier, grows faster. The
faster rate of growth of the black child means the IQ gap does not
show untill later when whites and asians catch up.
Test are also confirmed in RT reaction time tests. A subject responds
to a patter of light. The simple patterns the blacks respond to just
as fast as whites. However as the patterns become more complicated
the black reaction time reduces.
White IQ advantage is almost all in "g" ie the abstract reasoning
abillity component of intelligence: not in language.
>
> Your fears about a dumbing down of IQ in the USA seem to be at odds
> with a phenomenon known as the "Flynn Effect".
Its properly should be called the Lynn effect after Richard Lynn who
really discovered it and told Flynn about it.
Professor Lynn however believes in the racial IQ gap and is not often
credited with it.
> There are many references to this on the web but the Wikipedia entry
> is as good as any:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
>
> Your reference to twin studies is a little dubious IMO. It would be
> highly unethical to perform human experiments in which one of the
> subjects was knowingly malnourished while a control twin was
> adequately nourished.
Adoption studies have been conducted ie black children into white
families of high socio economic status.
Such famies tend to be very liberal and nourish the child very well.
> Even in the USA ;-) Without knowing one twin was
> malnourished and the other adequately fed, researchers would have to
> fall back on cultural stereotyping for their results.
> I have a bit to
> do with child protection and I can assure you that being white does
> not ensure a family will provide children with adequate food. Even
> more sadly I am aware some foster families provide a lesser standard
> of care to foster children than they provide for biological children
> in the same household.
Look its obvious that if your parents have a modest IQ they may not
nourish you as well.
There is no malnutrition in the USA.
In anycase if you eliminate the bottom 20% whuch would eliminate the
worst effects of poverty the gap remains.
Read Eysenk and Heerenstein and Murray
>
> I also wonder at the average IQ of white Americans being 100, as you
> state. 100 is number the IQ of the population as a whole is normalised
> around. If, as you say, whites have a higher IQ than the population
> average (which includes non-whites), the average IQ of whites would be
> over 100.
White IQ is actually comming in at about 102-104 in the USA.
>
> Returning to the reasons why poor countries are poor, lack of capital
> is the most likely explanation. Even if financial capital is poured
> into a country, if there is insufficient human capital and technology
> to make use of it, the result is inevitable.
Cognitive inequality is a factor.
>
> DM
Eunometic
Need to stop blaming white people.
Study land ownership in Ethiopia.
Eunometic
> On Dec 25, 12:38 pm, "SPierce" <ecre...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> > "DM" <d-m...@adfa.edu.au> wrote in message
>
> >news:6fbb574d-31d6-4fd6...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> > (snipped)
> > Zimbabwe is poor in human capital. Initiative is an important form of
> > human capital. It can be acquired through education, training and the
> > opportunity to practice.
>
> > # ok. You insist on attributing initiative to education and training. This
> > is despite all the education and training the British gave to Africans up
> > until the 1950s and they never showed a sign of initiative from it.
>
> > I have nothing further to say to you on the matter.
>
> Denial is a self defence mechanism many people use as an alternative
> to thinking about something that may change their world view.
Hmm consider your beliefs.
>
> Initiative is a synonym for leadership. The capacity to initiate
> action and follow through to achieve an objective is one of the
> attributes of a good leader. It is widely recognised that development
> activities can improve an individual's capacity for initiative. Anyone
> who wants further information about this can Google "initiative games"
> or "initiative activities"
The point stan made is that a great deal of education and functioning
civil structures were transfered to Africa.
Not much result.
You can spend all the time in the world in Africa, the leaders you get
is Tuvo Mbeke and his weird ideas on HIV, Or you get robert mugabe.
Post apartheid Sth Africa has 20 times the aparthied murder rate.
That's your leadership, the best Africa has to offer.
You'll find some great people in Africa but you'll see their
achievements die with them.
>
> It is difficult to find good sources of information on the web about
> the practical aspects of training initiative, perversely because the
> word "initiative" is so evocative that it is used in a pairing with
> almost every other word to attract attention.
>
> One source which supports the idea initiative can be taught is:http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/back/journals/2000/Vol26_2/2.htm
>
> This source describes the deliberate transformation of the German
> army, from one where tight control was exercised from the top, to an
> organisation in which initiative was not just expected but demanded at
> all levels. Of particular interest in the article is the observation
> that initiative can be taught at the national level and change the
> national character.
The German army even during the Franco Prusian war already exercised a
high degree of initiative. They did not require central command.
That's how they defeated the French in WW2 and also in earlier in
1874. A Commander seeing an opportuntiy immediatly would attack, if
he was killed his second immiediatly took over. No waiting around,
everyone knew what to do.
And note the German troops that defeated the French were conscripts,
highly literate, many privates were even attending university. They
had drilled and prepared at peacetime but they fought intelligently,
bravely and showed themselves able to take casualties. Against these
men the professional army of France stood no chance.
Now compare these literate German men conscripts who in civilian life
were skilled in trades, agriculture, engineering to the "war
vetrans'"of zimbabwe. (Murderous and genocidal).
Go back in time and see who can absorb your initiative training
easier. Its easy to see why they had 'initiative'
Eunometic
> On Dec 26, 9:46 am, DM <d-m...@adfa.edu.au> wrote:
>
>
>
> It does make a compelling theory...However, didn't the Germans get
> beaten back by brainless short-arsed little bastards similar to
> you and I?!!!
Beaten by not very well educated Russians. A lot of them.
DM
You will also find some absolute arseholes in Africa and some of them
show significant levels of initiative. Its a pity it is directed
toward self gratification and the acquisition and consolidation of
personal power rather than the benefit of the community as a whole.
You get that in societies as they develop. Cultural change is one of
the most difficult. It took Europeans millennia to get to the point
liberalism took off and even today there are many who reject this
concept. I give you the "might is right" philosophy of the neo-Nazis
as an example.
You seem to be telling me the highly educated Germans show greater
initiative than the poorly educated Zimbabweans. As I said, education
improves the capacity for initiative.
DM
DM
I don't blame white people. Blame doesn't fix problems, it only
creates more.
DM
dipsy
wrote:
>
>"Don H" <donlhu...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>news:byRXm.63811$ze1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>(snipped)
>> # The good old colonialists spread out from Europe, in competition with
>> each other, seeking lands to add to their Imperial Rule.
>>
>
># They spread out because they made excellent sailing vessels and knew how
>to salt fish and meat so it kept a long time.
> They also were excellent sailors and had vision and navigational technology
>to put action to their vision.
>To not exploit such improvements would have been seen by later historians as
>showing a lack of vision, as happened to the Chinese and Middle Eastern
>peoples.
>
>To call such people who attained that stage of human development 'old
>colonialists' is regarding them in a pejorative sense...when if fact the
>world is lucky the Europeans did it and not the Muslims or the Chinese.
>You want to be truly thankful you live a civilised life, and feel lucky that
>you can get civilised medical treatment and drink clean water from a tap and
>switch a light on to see in the dark.
> Do not regard your civilised living created from a people with intelligence
>and vision as a pejorative.
>
Well its nice to turn on the light and see the ghosts of old slaves
dancing in glee so that I can see. Did they invent something that a
psuedo-intellect can utilize to painlessly and effortlessly use to
pull his head from out of his anal cavity? Not yet? Okay, just wait in
line, you're healthcare will pay for it and it probably will have no
ghosts dancing around it. My how we have progressed!