Camera Deals

[ruben safir]

Does this sound like a decent deal?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-T4i-8-Lens-Kit-1855-IS-55250-PowerGrip-Kit-3-Year-US-Warranty-/140932494884

It seems like a decent overall deal, but the new cameras are out some maybe my idea of a good price needs an update.

Ruben
--
The Coin Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[Robert Coe]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 00:39:49 +0000 (UTC), ruben safir <do...@email.me> wrote:
:
:
: Does this sound like a decent deal?

:
: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-T4i-8-Lens-Kit-1855-IS-55250-PowerGrip-Kit-3-Year-US-Warranty-/140932494884
:
: It seems like a decent overall deal, but the new cameras are out some maybe my idea of a good price needs an update.

Well.... The "8-lens kit" looks like four lenses (only two of which are worth
naming) and four screw-in adapters. The speedlight is minuscule and of
uncertain manufacture. The auxiliary battery grip is something you probably
don't need; they tend to be expensive, and they add weight. A pro doing a long
photo shoot might find it useful, although I routinely do shoots of 300 to 400
images without one and almost never have to change batteries. The tripod may
be worthwhile or a piece of junk, but without knowing who made it, it's
probably not possible to tell. And I seem to recall that some early T4i's
leached some messy chemical out of their hides. You certainly want to check
the serial number to make sure this isn't one of them. That said, the Tni
series of Canon cameras has a good reputation. My wife loves her T2i and gets
excellent results with it.

I think the T4i is still being made. How does this price compare with a
similar configuration from B&H or Adorama?

Bob

[Wolfgang Weisselberg]

Robert Coe <b...@1776.COM> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2013 00:39:49 +0000 (UTC), ruben safir <do...@email.me> wrote:

>: Does this sound like a decent deal?

>: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-T4i-8-Lens-Kit-1855-IS-55250-PowerGrip-Kit-3-Year-US-Warranty-/140932494884

>: It seems like a decent overall deal, but the new cameras are out some maybe my idea of a good price needs an update.

> Well.... The "8-lens kit" looks like four lenses (only two of which are worth
> naming) and four screw-in adapters.

It's 2 lenses: the kit lens and the tele kit lens. Not even
bad optically, but really cheap. And cheap means there are
some ... compromises to be made.

And the 18-55 is NOT the STM variant which the camera is
supporting well.

Note: No lens hood. Lens hoods are valuable for raising
contrast (less light from wrong directions hitting the front
lens) and protecting the lens (by physically being in the way
from larger things trying to hit the front lens). Buy lens
hoods.


The other 2 lenses are add on lenses for extreme wideangle
(0.43x => 18mm -> 8mm (12mm FF)) and strong tele (2.2x =>
250mm -> 550mm (880mm FF). Even high end converters (say a
Canon 2x for 500 USD) with great lenses suffer from a certain
image degradation; these are probably not usable for more
than 4x6 prints (~2 MPix) after repairing the distortion in
your computer. (Note that the Canon TCs work differently
from these add on lenses: the Canon TCs ge between lens and
body and influence the aperture, these add on lenses go in
front of the lens and don't affect the max aperture.)

The "+1, +2, +4, +10 Close Up Macro Kit" ("Double-threaded
allowing you to combine them to achieve increased
magnification") are not even achromats (else they'd have said
so) and are therefore not usable except for artistic, blurry,
strong coloured fringes uses.


The 3 filters: UV you don't need, flourescent you don't need at
all unless you're shooting film, the polarizer can be useful,
but then you want lenses that don't rotate while zooming
and focussing!

> The speedlight is minuscule and of
> uncertain manufacture.

That's no speedlight. It's a slave flash. If you're
shooting smaller things the full manual way (i.e. setting
flash power by changing the distance) it might be usable.
I'd advise against it; if you're short on cash buy a used,
cheaper camera and old flashes where you can at least select
the power manually.

> The auxiliary battery grip is something you probably
> don't need; they tend to be expensive, and they add weight.

It may be of value for those who shoot mostly in portrait
orientation (that would be me, for example) for the shutter
button and for those with big hands (that would be me, too).

But it's not an original Canon grip and may not have all the
buttons & wheels the oiginal has.

> A pro doing a long
> photo shoot might find it useful, although I routinely do shoots of 300 to 400
> images without one and almost never have to change batteries.

According to the CIPA method: 440 images using the
viewfinder, 180 using liveview.

I.e. more if you shoot lots in fast series, less if you chimp
a lot).
So if you're going for 500 or more shots a grip may be useful
(OTOH, changing batteries doesn't exactly take hours and hours.)
You'll find out and buy a grip then.

> The tripod may
> be worthwhile or a piece of junk, but without knowing who made it, it's
> probably not possible to tell.

It's a professional tripod, so it's lore likely junk.

> And I seem to recall that some early T4i's
> leached some messy chemical out of their hides. You certainly want to check
> the serial number to make sure this isn't one of them. That said, the Tni
> series of Canon cameras has a good reputation. My wife loves her T2i and gets
> excellent results with it.

> I think the T4i is still being made. How does this price compare with a
> similar configuration from B&H or Adorama?

The T4i (aka 650D aka Kiss X6i) is the same vintage as the 5D3
and just a month older than the 60Da. There's a T5i, but Canon
(USA) site still lists the T4i.

B&H says:
T4i (body) $683.50
Lexar 16 GB card Class 10
Bag/Holster
Cleaning Cloth (microfiber)
IR remote control

EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II Lens $199.00

EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens $299.00

=> 1181.50 USD

or use the better-for-video:
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM Lens $249.00
instead: 1231.50 USD


Or this one:
T4i + 18-135mm IS STM Lens $1,149.00
Lexar 16 GB card Class 10
Bag/Holster
UV 'protection' filter[1]
Cleaning Cloth (microfiber)
IR remote control
lens cap holder

So for less than 48 USD extra you get
- a much better lens (and one that's way more capable at
video, i.e. focussing while filming, if that's your thing)
- no need to change lenses
and lose
- some tele range (from a cheap lens)
- 1 cheap (questionably reliably) 16 GB card
- 2 unusable extreme WA/tele add on lenses
- a set of unusable screw in lenses to make your lens myopic
- a very weak and hard to use slave flash (the camera has
a built in flash)
- a PL filter (of unknown vintage)
- 2 unneccessary filters
- a battery grip of unknown source
- a tripod of whom they dare not even mention the maker
- a camera backpack of unknown source
- a third-party charger
- a cheap card reader
- the chance to hold and handle the stuff before buying
to see if they fit my hands.


Personally, I'd go with the 18-135mm lens, or rather, I'd
go to a brick and motar store and hold the cameras all in my
hands and see which one agrees with me. Not only Canon, but
also Nikon and others. And think about micro-4/3rd cameras,
and the EOS M, and so on, and find out what I need in a camera.

(Turns out I'm a low-light, tele range shooter, but 200mm FF
(~130mm on a crop camera) is usually enough. Since I'm low
light, I have a 70-200mm f/2.8 IS (Version I) --- expensive
toy it is, heavy it is! --- and nowadays an FF camera (I was
hitting the ISO/low light limit of my 20D. Hard. Repeatedly.
Even with push processing). For the times I need more range
more than more light and can take a *slight* reduction in
image quality, there's a 1.4x and 2x TC.)


If this was (sort of) my first camera, I'd buy cheap and used,
probably a capable P&S (or lend a system from a friend) and find
out where I hit the limits of that camera --- and where not.
Do I need more tele? More wide angle? Shallower DOF? Better
low light capability? More resolution (!= more megapixels
--- you also need the glass to go with it)? A capable flash
system, off the optical axis, to avoid red eyes? Or freely
positionable slave flashes? Or just "more light" from them?
Or a tilt&swivel flash head, so I can bounce of the ceiling?
And so on and so on. And THEN I'd buy what I THEN know I need.

-Wolfgang


[1] if you're shooting where sand, mud, seaspray or similar
go flying, that may be useful. But then there are clear
protect filters, against mechanical damage a lens hood
is better and you probably want a weather sealed lens and
camera then as well.

[ruben safir]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 14:50:24 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:

> this one:
> T4i + 18-135mm IS STM Lens $1,149.00 Lexar
> 16 GB card Class 10 Bag/Holster UV 'protection' filter[1]
> Cleaning Cloth (microfiber)
> IR remote control lens cap holder

I won't do business again with B&H ever. The last experience was so bad,
that I'd anyone and everyone away from them.

[Savageduck]

On 2013-05-21 20:23:54 -0700, ruben safir <do...@email.me> said:

> On Mon, 20 May 2013 14:50:24 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
>
>> this one:
>> T4i + 18-135mm IS STM Lens $1,149.00 Lexar
>> 16 GB card Class 10 Bag/Holster UV 'protection' filter[1]
>> Cleaning Cloth (microfiber)
>> IR remote control lens cap holder
>
>
>
> I won't do business again with B&H ever. The last experience was so bad,
> that I'd anyone and everyone away from them.
>
>
> Ruben

Strange. I have never had anything but good dealings with B&H.
I suggest that you either call or email Henry Posner at B&H to voice
your concerns;

hjpo...@gmail.com
or
bandhphot...@photobanter.com

He plays much the same role of problem solver that Helen Oster plays at Adorama
Hel...@adorama.com

Both are good references to have if you are going to do any business
with either of those two giants.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Ruben]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:23:29 -0700, Savageduck wrote:


>
> hjpo...@gmail.com or bandhphot...@photobanter.com

not necessary. Either they do it it or not on the floor and B&H has been
really a PIA over serveral interactions over a decade.They are really a
PIA.

I wouldn't touch B&H any longer with a stick and I'm really done more
than my share of effort with them. And frankly I couldn't care who owns
them.



--
The Coin Collectors Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[PeterN]

On 5/25/2013 10:48 PM, Ruben wrote:
> On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:23:29 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
>
>
>>
>> hjpo...@gmail.com or bandhphot...@photobanter.com
>
> not necessary. Either they do it it or not on the floor and B&H has been
> really a PIA over serveral interactions over a decade.They are really a
> PIA.
>
> I wouldn't touch B&H any longer with a stick and I'm really done more
> than my share of effort with them. And frankly I couldn't care who owns
> them.
>

Your experience certainly differs from the vast majority of folks I
know. Would you care to share details?


--
PeterN

[Savageduck]

On 2013-05-25 19:48:54 -0700, Ruben <no...@none.com> said:

> On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:23:29 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
>
>
>>
>> hjpo...@gmail.com or bandhphot...@photobanter.com
>
> not necessary. Either they do it it or not on the floor and B&H has been
> really a PIA over serveral interactions over a decade.They are really a
> PIA.
>
> I wouldn't touch B&H any longer with a stick and I'm really done more
> than my share of effort with them. And frankly I couldn't care who owns
> them.

Just where is it you are located, & what is your exact beef with B&H.
Please elaborate.
It seems that you and RichA are in the minority when it comes to
dissatisfaction with your dealings with B&H.

...and what exactly are you implying by your remark regarding their ownership?

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Robert Coe]

On Sun, 26 May 2013 02:48:54 +0000 (UTC), Ruben <no...@none.com> wrote:

: On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:23:29 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
:
:
: >
: > hjpo...@gmail.com or bandhphot...@photobanter.com
:
: not necessary. Either they do it it or not on the floor and B&H has been
: really a PIA over serveral interactions over a decade.They are really a
: PIA.
:
: I wouldn't touch B&H any longer with a stick and I'm really done more
: than my share of effort with them. And frankly I couldn't care who owns
: them.

And frankly we don't care whether you shop there.

If you don't mind my saying so (and even if you do), the knowledge of
photographic equipment, and the sophistication of judgement regarding its
purchase, that you've shown us so far do nothing to motivate me to listen to
your whining about B&H. Especially since my experience doing business with
them over the past seven years has been uniformly positive.

Bob

[ruben safir]

On Sat, 25 May 2013 20:20:57 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> On 2013-05-25 19:48:54 -0700, Ruben <no...@none.com> said:
>
>> On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:23:29 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> hjpo...@gmail.com or bandhphot...@photobanter.com
>>
>> not necessary. Either they do it it or not on the floor and B&H has
>> been really a PIA over serveral interactions over a decade.They are
>> really a PIA.
>>
>> I wouldn't touch B&H any longer with a stick and I'm really done more
>> than my share of effort with them. And frankly I couldn't care who
>> owns them.
>
> Just where is it you are located, & what is your exact beef with B&H.

My beef with them is that they suck. I hate going there. I hate the way
they do business, the layout of the store, the stupidity of the staff,
and disrespect they have for their customers... I've purchased several
thousands of dollars of stuff over the years, and they really suck and
waste time.

They are also very good at bait and switch.

well, tourists do well there.



> Please elaborate.

I just did as much as I care to.

> It seems that you and RichA are in the minority when it comes to
> dissatisfaction with your dealings with B&H.
>

Really? I don't really care if I'm the only man on earth with this
expereince with them, they still suck.

> ...and what exactly are you implying by your remark regarding their
> ownership?

I'm implying that I don't give a damn who owns them or email address. Do
you work for B&H? What are you implying? Are you implying that because
you give me their email address that I should continue to buy from them
despite their crappy service, and false advertising of "specials"?

not to mention having to stand on long lones, and suffle through the
place like it is an airline terminal, be pointed at inferior products
that I'm not looking for by idiot sales people who won't get out of my
way when I need them to, or get off their buns when I need them to... etc.

I hate B&H. But your welcome to buy from them. Email their owner if you
want.

[ruben safir]

On Sun, 26 May 2013 08:51:45 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

> If you don't mind my saying so (and even if you do), the knowledge of
> photographic equipment, and the sophistication of judgement regarding
> its purchase, that you've shown us so far do nothing to motivate me to
> listen to your whining about B&H. Especially since my experience doing
> business with them over the past seven years has been uniformly
> positive.

Good for you. That is your unforunate choice. They sell more than
camera's and I've been going business with them long before 7 years ago.
In fact, you might have been not yet out of grade school when I first
purchased anything from them.

If your experience has been 'uniformly positive' than that is certainly
suspect. If your buying experience with any outfit over 7 years is
'uniformaly positive' then I suggest that your opinion is uniformaly
suspect....

Just saying...

Generally, after almost 3 decades of buying equiptment in the city, I'd
say stick to J&R, although I did get my Canon AE-1 from Abes Photography
on Coney Island Avenue somewhere in the mid 1970's.

[PeterN]

You still have not given a specific. You claim bait & switch? When?with
what?
If your experience was so bad over th years, why did you keep doing
business with them?
It's your right to do business with anyone you want. You certainly have
a right to describe negative experiences. However you failure to give
specifics, creates veracity issues.




--
PeterN

[PeterN]

Yes, things do go wrong in any business relationship. It's how they deal
with problems, that tells the story. BTW I have been dealing with B&H
since 1972, and they have never attempted a bait & switch. On one
occasion, when a problem came up, they delt with it quickly and
professionally. (As to specifics; a used lens had a defect, that I
noticed the firs time I used it. They gave me a prompt refund, and
apologized that the person who inspects these lenses had erred.)


--
PeterN

[Savageduck]

On 2013-05-27 12:25:41 -0700, ruben safir <do...@email.me> said:

> On Sat, 25 May 2013 20:20:57 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
>
>> On 2013-05-25 19:48:54 -0700, Ruben <no...@none.com> said:
>>
>>> On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:23:29 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> hjpo...@gmail.com or bandhphot...@photobanter.com
>>>
>>> not necessary. Either they do it it or not on the floor and B&H has
>>> been really a PIA over serveral interactions over a decade.They are
>>> really a PIA.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't touch B&H any longer with a stick and I'm really done more
>>> than my share of effort with them. And frankly I couldn't care who
>>> owns them.
>>
>> Just where is it you are located, & what is your exact beef with B&H.
>
> My beef with them is that they suck. I hate going there. I hate the way
> they do business, the layout of the store, the stupidity of the staff,
> and disrespect they have for their customers... I've purchased several
> thousands of dollars of stuff over the years, and they really suck and
> waste time.

With both B&H and Adorama, I have never experienced anything but
respect for the customer.
...and yet you still did business with them.

> They are also very good at bait and switch.

I have never experienced "bait & switch" with B&H.

> well, tourists do well there.
>
>
>
>> Please elaborate.
>
> I just did as much as I care to.

That wasn't particularly specific.

>> It seems that you and RichA are in the minority when it comes to
>> dissatisfaction with your dealings with B&H.
>>
>
> Really? I don't really care if I'm the only man on earth with this
> expereince with them, they still suck.

...and yet no evidence, or specifics other than your whine.

>> ...and what exactly are you implying by your remark regarding their
>> ownership?
>
> I'm implying that I don't give a damn who owns them or email address.

That is obvious.

> Do you work for B&H?

No.

> What are you implying?

I am implying that there might be an issue beyond the attention and
service you received from B&H which is possibly clouding your opinion.

> Are you implying that because you give me their email address that I
> should continue to buy from them
> despite their crappy service, and false advertising of "specials"?

I gave you the contact for Henry Posner, who is their "Director of
Public Communications" as such he could be considered their PR/trouble
shooter/problem solver and general customer service contact point.

> not to mention having to stand on long lones, and suffle through the
> place like it is an airline terminal, be pointed at inferior products
> that I'm not looking for by idiot sales people who won't get out of my
> way when I need them to, or get off their buns when I need them to... etc.
>
> I hate B&H. But your welcome to buy from them. Email their owner if you
> want.
>
> Ruben

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, I would add that I have
dealt with B&H for various items since 1998 without reason for
complaint.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.27 15:25 , ruben safir wrote:

>
> I'm implying that I don't give a damn who owns them or email address. Do
> you work for B&H? What are you implying? Are you implying that because
> you give me their email address that I should continue to buy from them
> despite their crappy service, and false advertising of "specials"?
>
> not to mention having to stand on long lones, and suffle through the
> place like it is an airline terminal, be pointed at inferior products
> that I'm not looking for by idiot sales people who won't get out of my
> way when I need them to, or get off their buns when I need them to... etc.

Over the years I've bought a lot of stuff there - usually shipped, but a
couple times in store. I've had precisely two issues:

- a lens was badly packed - the product was protected by bubble wrap on
5 sides but against the shipping box on the last. No damage - but when
a lens arrives and the body-end lens cap is off (from banging around),
it's because of bad packing. B&H (Posner) disagreed and I disagreed
right back.

- I bought a light meter and the next day the price reduced by about
$25. I wrote to them and they credited the difference to my CC.

My experience with B&H is like most people's experience with B&H:
Very good most of the time, occasional issues, and B&H do their best to
sort out issues.

They certainly have never been shown to practice bait+switch. They
would not be as large and successful as they are if they did.

As to the store proper it's great, IMO. eg: While choosing a macro lens
the clerk asked what body I had and he pulled one out. I played with
two different macro lenses and chose the one that best suited my needs.
(And I've never regretted buying that lens at all).

The checkout process is a bit long. In part because of their
anti-shoplifting system.

--
"A Canadian is someone who knows how to have sex in a canoe."
-Pierre Berton

[henryp]

On Monday, May 27, 2013 3:25:41 PM UTC-4, ruben safir wrote:
> My beef with them is that they suck. I hate going there. I hate the way
> they do business, the layout of the store, the stupidity of the staff,
> and disrespect they have for their customers... I've purchased several
> thousands of dollars of stuff over the years, and they really suck and
> waste time.

We certainly regret your dissatisfaction although I am pleased to see it seems to be a minority opinion hereabouts. Just now I cannot find a "Ruben Safir" in our customer database so the nature of your dissatisfaction eludes me.

I can be reached at henryp[at]bhphoto.com. All the other email addresses posted as contacts for me are obsolete or incorrect.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

[ruben safir]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 14:00:24 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

>> They are also very good at bait and switch.
>
> I have never experienced "bait & switch" with B&H.

Really?

I even went to the point of pretending to want to purchase about $2,000
in equptment to get a deal on a camera that was suposedly out of stock,
and then suddenly it apeared. And then when I got to the checkout line,
I purchased only the camera and put everything else back.

Now that was thew last time I shopped there ..

but as i said, it is a "free" country. You can do what you want.

[ruben safir]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 14:18:25 -0700, henryp wrote:

> We certainly regret your dissatisfaction although I am pleased to see it
> seems to be a minority opinion hereabouts. Just now I cannot find a
> "Ruben Safir" in our customer database so the nature of your
> dissatisfaction eludes me.
>
> I can be reached at henryp[at]bhphoto.com. All the other email addresses
> posted as contacts for me are obsolete or incorrect.

Good, and it will stay that way, and you, nor radio shack, nor a dozen
other companies will ever be in your database.

I have purchased Phatnon Mics, Video recorders, 3 laptops and 2 desktops
that I used to teach with, a replacement lens for my Canon AE-1, and a
bunch of ancillary things. And your staff was a PIA every time.

Doubt my integretry if you wish.

Every time I went there, I knew exactly what I wanted before I entered.
Many of the times, despite things being advertised, they weren't there.
And then your staff becomes a real PIA selling me things when I already
did my research. But we can wait all day while someone plays with 5
different cell phones.

and then there was the trouble with returns.

Crap.

the bait and switch was the last straw. I thought this was happening and
then I actually confirmed it.

I'll stick with J&R. I never have trouble with them.

Ruben Safir

[ruben safir]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 14:18:25 -0700, henryp wrote:

> We certainly regret your dissatisfaction although I am pleased to see it
> seems to be a minority opinion hereabouts. Just now I cannot find a
> "Ruben Safir" in our customer database so the nature of your
> dissatisfaction eludes me.
>
> I can be reached at henryp[at]bhphoto.com. All the other email addresses
> posted as contacts for me are obsolete or incorrect.

Also, FWIW, I find it highly dissatisfactory that B&H has people
monitoring the usenet, amoung other places, looking you negative
mentioning of B&H and doing gorilla marketing.

Not found when MS does it, and not found of B&H when they do it...

and is a really good reason, BTW, to make sure you NEVER have my name in
your database.

[ruben safir]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 16:22:35 -0400, PeterN wrote:

> Yes, things do go wrong in any business relationship. It's how they deal
> with problems, that tells the story.

You know what, I don't really can. Its just not important. I was just
looking at a possible gift for my son on his graduation. I got really
can to even talk about B&H any more than I want to shop with them.

The initial deal is not great, so I'll keep looking...any where but B&H.

[Savageduck]

On 2013-05-27 18:27:47 -0700, ruben safir <do...@email.me> said:

> On Mon, 27 May 2013 14:00:24 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
>
>>> They are also very good at bait and switch.
>>
>> I have never experienced "bait & switch" with B&H.
>
> Really?

Yup! Really.

> I even went to the point of pretending to want to purchase about $2,000
> in equptment to get a deal on a camera that was suposedly out of stock,
> and then suddenly it apeared. And then when I got to the checkout line,
> I purchased only the camera and put everything else back.

So you are a sneaky, deceptive SOB?

> Now that was thew last time I shopped there ..

I am sure they will be pleased to know that.

> but as i said, it is a "free" country. You can do what you want.

Within reason, that is what I always do.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

[henryp]

On Monday, May 27, 2013 9:46:15 PM UTC-4, ruben safir wrote:
> Also, FWIW, I find it highly dissatisfactory that B&H has people
> monitoring the usenet, amoung other places, looking you negative
> mentioning of B&H and doing gorilla marketing.
> Not found when MS does it, and not found of B&H when they do it...
> and is a really good reason, BTW, to make sure you NEVER have my name in
> your database.
> Ruben

Well, it's not "people," it's me and I've been doing it for more than a decade. I must admit thought that I spend far more time in forums and social network sites than I do the usenet these days.

That said, I look for all sorts of things, including but not limited to the negative. Why do you find it so disconcerting? Something you don't want me to see? :-)

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

[Wolfgang Weisselberg]

ruben safir <do...@email.me> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2013 14:18:25 -0700, henryp wrote:

>> We certainly regret your dissatisfaction although I am pleased to see it
>> seems to be a minority opinion hereabouts. Just now I cannot find a
>> "Ruben Safir" in our customer database so the nature of your
>> dissatisfaction eludes me.

>> I can be reached at henryp[at]bhphoto.com. All the other email addresses
>> posted as contacts for me are obsolete or incorrect.

> Also, FWIW, I find it highly dissatisfactory that B&H has people
> monitoring the usenet, amoung other places, looking you negative
> mentioning of B&H and doing gorilla marketing.

You want to badmouth others without them being able to answer?

Or is it the fact that not being in the database increases the
light that already shines on you with your salami technique
re regarding the exact nature of your dissatisfaction? How
naughty to not bekieve your every single word blindly.

Also, FWIW, I find it highly dissatisfactory that you monitor
the usenet, among other places, looking for mentioning of B&H
and doing a propagandablitz against them there, no matter
what the topic may be.

> Not found when MS does it, and not found of B&H when they do it...

Not fond when one kook does it, not fond when another Taliban
does it ...

> and is a really good reason, BTW, to make sure you NEVER have my name in
> your database.

... so only "ruben safir"s sockpuppets will be thrown out
for insulting the stuff, and he himself can return next month
for the next episode of "how to make patient, dedicated staff
completely mad".

-Wolfgang

[PeterN]

On 5/27/2013 9:46 PM, ruben safir wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2013 14:18:25 -0700, henryp wrote:
>
>
>> We certainly regret your dissatisfaction although I am pleased to see it
>> seems to be a minority opinion hereabouts. Just now I cannot find a
>> "Ruben Safir" in our customer database so the nature of your
>> dissatisfaction eludes me.
>>
>> I can be reached at henryp[at]bhphoto.com. All the other email addresses
>> posted as contacts for me are obsolete or incorrect.
>
>
> Also, FWIW, I find it highly dissatisfactory that B&H has people
> monitoring the usenet, amoung other places, looking you negative
> mentioning of B&H and doing gorilla marketing.

B&H doesn't sell gorillas. Your bad English is so prevalent tht it shows
you as lacking in education.

>
> Not found when MS does it, and not found of B&H when they do it...
>
> and is a really good reason, BTW, to make sure you NEVER have my name in
> your database.

Bye you really ae a sick puppy


--
PeterN

[Ruben Safir]

I have no idea what your talking about, but whatever.

There is very little about B&H that is worth spending time thinking
about. The fact that your track people and and stalk usenet just makes
it even less desirable than ever to do business with them. I'm in
healthcare. If I used my database like you just did, it woud be a $25K
fine a pop and possible loss of license. B&H has been ethics challenged
for decades, so why should that change now.




> Henry Posner
> B&H Photo-Video

[Ruben Safir]

henryp <hen...@bhphoto.com> wrote:
>
> Well, it's not "people," it's me and I've been doing it for more than a decade. I must admit thought that I spend far more time in forums and social network sites than I do the usenet these days.
>

Considering that there are several prohibitions against it, yeah
probably. But since it is actually essential to your Parnsah, then I
suppose it is likely that you have an exemption in this matter, if you
bring the Shilah to a Dayin. Regardless, it is still repugnant in its
own right that you have people, and yes, it is people on B&H payroll,
who monitor usenet and social media. This is not actually something
that can be ethically disputed, unless you want to just lie about the
matter.

> That said, I look for all sorts of things, including but not limited to the
> negative. Why do you find it so disconcerting?

Because it is a violation of a trust, and an invasion of privacy. It
also distorts the the conversation that happens when serious money is
thrown at manipulating such chanels. I know you knwo this because I've
seen you discuss this verbally with others ...

> Something you don't want me to see? :-)

Many things. How about your boss? Does he want everything on him
exposed or just the PR bumble junk you feed the media like:

"Spokesman Henry Posner says it's in the DNA of the company founded
37 years ago by Herman Schreiber and his wife Blimie: "His overall
philosophy permeates our business. He believes that we should run an
ethical business with unimpeachable integrity, and he believes that his
success is something for which he gives all credit to the Lord. And if
you're going to live that lifestyle part of living that lifestyle is
obeying the rules."


Please, give it a break. B&H didn't grow into the retail giant it is
today by the dociile loving activities of too loving elderly people
who's only interest is Tzadakah. And that is before we get into a
discussion of what is and is not tzadakah.

Suffice to say, mind your business and keep my name out of your
database. And if I happen to say that I wouldn't by a thing from B&H,
that is not a call for the PR department of a $700,000,000 business.
Are you going to tap my keyboard next?

Now - go buy a Congressman or something and leave me alone. I've still
got to find a camera as a present for my son.

BTW - one of your employees emailed me today and said I should try "Abe's
from Maine". Is that weird or what? Why would one of your employees do
that?

But just to be clear on this, I hate the store because it is like
shopping in an airport terminal, the prices aren't all that great, and
most of all, your sales reps are a PIA, and I've had to deal with bait
and switch.... not your bad PR tactics, law suites, Halachic
considerations, or anything else. It has been for me, just an
unpleasant place to shop. Your sales staff can waste your time with the
best of them.

Ruben

[Savageduck]

I guess you better start a rant against Adordama now.
The person filling the same role as Henry there is, Helen Osler.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 30 May 2013 06:42:30 +0000 (UTC), Ruben Safir
<mrbr...@panix.com> wrote:

>Because it is a violation of a trust, and an invasion of privacy. It
>also distorts the the conversation that happens when serious money is
>thrown at manipulating such chanels. I know you knwo this because I've
>seen you discuss this verbally with others ...

You gotta love the logic of someone who posts critical comments in a
public forum, and then says it's an invasion of privacy if the subject
of the comments finds the comments and replies defensively.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[PeterN]

He claims to be in healthcare. I wonder if it's as a mental patient.
He seems to lack a total understanding of the difference between HIPAA
and gratuitously posting in a public forum. His rant is without merit.
Indeed the fact that Henry and Helen are employed to do what they do, is
the sign of a company that has true concern. And if there was a real
problem, sthe poster would have contacted Henry, who would have resolved
the issue.

--
PeterN

[Savageduck]

http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/seven-steps-to-managing-your-online-reputation/
>


--
Regards,

Savageduck

[PAUL {HAMILTON} ROONEY]

This ng is not only helpful and informative, but rather funny too.

--

Paul Rooney

[PeterN]

Yup!

--
PeterN

[Robert Coe]

On Thu, 30 May 2013 03:06:02 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

I'm sure Helen thanks you for trying to sic this crackpot on her. :^|

Bob