star people
galathaea
i've been trying for some time to come up with crackpottiest theory possible
something that indicates a little mental illness silhouetting a lost soul
obsession
paranoia
you know
real attention whore street barking type crackpot
.
i think i've finally found a Good Candidate(tm)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!! +++++
!! starpeople * *
^^^ ******
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
okay
i understand its not exactly _new_
but i think i can add an interesting twist
first i am going to refuse to say that i think they are likely without evidence
which will just piss off those who want to jump on my gullibility
instead i am simply going to describe some mechanisms
and _ask_ what their likelihoods may be
and _how_ we can test and measure
and yet i will position myself as champion against the hegemony of carbaquist dogma
once again defeating an imaginary enemy
^^^^^^^^^^^**^^^^
i take as my starting point structural information
in a dynamic system there are many different ways we can describe structural information
instead of picking one ab initio
i will try to formalise the information i need to get from such a description
as i need it
structure is a collection of features we use to identify it
features are symbols in a symbology of patterns
as with all symbology
every word holds a measure of information
i will take this as primary and focus on the information content of a description
now
i will distinguish seated from ephemeral structure in this way:
seated structure is associated with matter in a direct way
in particular
in seated structure an association is made between identified features and the matter they contain
so that the feature is always composed of the same matter for its term of existence
seated structures include static structures like crystals
as well as certain dynamics structures like the solar system and its satellites
ephemeral structures are those structures whose features persist
despite a complete change or flux of matter
it is the ephemera i am after...
..........##.......................
dissipative structures are well studied in thermodynamics outside the linear regime
in environments with large fluxes of free energy
the system thermodynamic branch can become unstable
and ephemeral structures may form
benard cells were one of the first examples with a full theory developed
and it is now known that the sun's surface also shows benard cells in the convective region
some chemical systems have also been shown to generate spatial reaction structure
where instead of thermal gradients providing the free energy flux
it is instead the transport of reactants
that both drives the structure
and provides through its dissipative flow the means for fuel flow
generally these are system with 3 or more species present
with several species working as intermediates in a catalytic capacity
if these are to survive and form more stable structures
the systems must be organised in some form of autocatalytic network
at which point we can build a quasispecies model
and study its evolution
this is where i will suggest star people come from
not from a chemical network as most chemicals are atomised in the stellar interior
but from an analogous structure of nuclear species
the CNO cycles and their generalisations
%oo&
13 (p, gamma) 14
C ------------------> N
^ |
| + | (p, gamma)
| (e , nu) |
| V
13 15
N O
^ | +
| | (e , nu)
| (p, gamma) |
| V
12 15
C <------------------ N
(p, alpha)
this cycle is found in second and later generation stars
catalysing the hydrogen burning that is the source of the star's massive free energy output
because of its cyclic nature
it can easily form interior stellar flow structures of hypercycle origin
in magnetohydrodynamic systems like a star
magnetic helicity is conserved and allows inverse energy cascades
that are the signature of coherent structure formation in turbulence
(similar to 2d navier-stokes coherent vortices)
turbulent dynamos can structure huge regions of stellar plasma
coupling to natural dissipative structures due to nuclear species flows
and great complexity can naturally arise
in fact
the CNO cycles are more complex than the main cycle above
and actually look more like
13 (p, gamma) 14 (p, alpha) 17 (p, gamma) 18
C ------------------> N <------------------- O ---------------------> F
^ | ^ |
| + | (p, gamma) | + |
| (e , nu) | | (e , nu) |
| V | |
|
13 15 17 | +
N O F | (e , nu)
|
^ | + ^ |
| | (e , nu) | |
| (p, gamma) | | (p, gamma) |
| V | |
|
12 15 16 |
C <------------------ N -------------------> O |
(p, alpha) (p, gamma) V
^ ^
| | 18
----------------------------------------------- O
(p, alpha) |
| |
| | (p, gamma)
| |
| V
|
| 19
---------------------- F
(p, alpha)
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$^^$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
what about the anticarbaquist postioning?
these certainly contain carbon!
however
they are not the only such autocatalytic cycles in stellar interiors
there are also NeNa and MgAl cycles
the principle is the same
that a potential for self-organisation exists
in the coupling of nuclear species dissipative structures to thermal and magnetohydrodynamic structures
@@@@@@@**^
but where can one take this handwaving argument?
here is where i ask more questions than supply any answers..
what level of complexity can actually form?
simple adaptive structures are already seen in surface structure
and oscillatory behavior has been shown to be potentially computational
in work on coevolutionary dynamics and the theory of natural information
the extropic flow of the sun is of the order of 7 x 10^22 J K^(-1) s^(-1)
whereas the extropic flow of the earth
where life is much more strongly suspected to exist
is only 4 x 10^14 J K^(-1) s^(-1)
can these systems form sensory interactions?
adaptive response is already a means of computing with input
but there are many more forms of information transfer available to these systems
flux tube exchange and structural information
energy flows
and many other forms of simple communication
is there a way to observe it?
peering into the sun is a very difficult endeavor
because of the extreme pressures driving up opacity
there are the classic 1.642 micrometer infrared views
but they barely peer the surface
will the high thermal profiles of stellar interiors destroy any structure that forms?
in the study of biogenesis
structure tends to form on the edge of chaotic regimes
but not within them
the surface turbulence of a star like the sun is huge
with reynolds numbers around 10^14
experiments have shown that the surface should lose all regularity
at turbulences of 10^6
and yet the surface does show strong structural organisation in solar granules
and large scale structures like sun spots persist for weeks or months
are the most complex structures to be found then in the photosphere?
or deeper?
and so on...
^@@^
i call these structures star people not because i assert
their equivalence or superiority to humanity
but only as a taunt not to draw lines
about where in the spectrum of living systems they may lie
protocells?
cellular colonies?
informational processing nets?
what information?
of course
there is nothing new under the sun
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
dkw1...@yahoo.com
paranoia ...
Religions with all their insights and truths would fit the bill
logically if not mathematically. dkw
Uncle Al
>
> i've been trying for some time to come up with crackpottiest theory possible
> something that indicates a little mental illness silhouetting a lost soul
> obsession
> paranoia
>
> you know
> real attention whore street barking type crackpot
The Bible, the Koran... climatism, fuel from crops; the US Federal tax
code, Homeland Severity, Department of Education, legislated morality,
income redistribution... anything externally impressed for your own
good in which the impressor gets vigorish. Once the pig is born it
only lacks lipstick and immortality.
Cf.: Hitlery Ramrod Clinton. Yale law student Hillary Rodham enjoyed
a very enthusiastic participation rallying The Community to support
Warren Kimbro, Lonnie McLucas, George W. Sams, Jr., et al. (10
defendants total) in the torture murder of fellow Black Panther Alex
Rackley. Autopsy disclosed Rackley had been extenwsively tortured:
wide area burns on his chest, wrists, buttocks, thighs, and right
shoulder. He had been severely beaten with a hard object upon his
face, groin, and lumbar region. He was killed by shots to his head
and chest. The body was found with its hands bound. Probably not an
accident or suicide.
Ericka Huggins boiled the water for Mr. Rackley's torture. Some years
later Ms. Huggins was elected to a California school board. The
shooter, Warren Kimbro, got a scholarship to Harvard. He later became
an assistant dean at Eastern Connecticut State College. Redemption! -
or more of the same. Your choice.
Vote for Hillary - a real attention whore street barking type
crackpot.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
Androcles
"Uncle Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:46E7F953...@hate.spam.net...
[snip wet fart]
--
'we establish by definition that the "time" required by
light to travel from A to B equals the "time" it requires
to travel from B to A' because I SAY SO and you have to
agree because I'm the great genius, STOOOPID, don't you
dare question it. -- Rabbi Albert Einstein
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/tAB=tBA.gif
"Neither [frame] is stationary, which is your problem." -- Blind
"I'm not a troll" Poe.
Ref: news:1189468758....@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
'we establish by definition that the "time" required by
light to travel from A to B doesn't equal the "time" it requires
to travel from B to A in the stationary system, obviously.' --
Heretic Jan Bielawski, assistant light-bulb changer.
Ref: news:1188363019....@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com
"SR is GR with G=0." -- Uncle Stooopid.
The Uncle Stooopid doctrine:
http://sound.westhost.com/counterfeit.jpg
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence." -- Uncle Stooopid.
"Counterfactual assumptions yield nonsense.
If such a thing were actually observed, reliably and reproducibly, then
relativity would immediately need a major overhaul if not a complete
replacement." -- Humpty Roberts.
Rabbi Albert Einstein in 1895 failed an examination that would
have allowed him to study for a diploma as an electrical engineer
at the Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule in Zurich
(couldn't even pass the SATs).
According to Phuckwit Duck it was geography and history that Einstein
failed on, as if Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule would give a
damn. That tells you the lengths these lying bastards will go to to
protect their tin god, but its always a laugh when they slip up.
Trolls, the lot of them.
"This is PHYSICS, not math or logic, and "proof" is completely
irrelevant." -- Humpty Roberts.
Al Klein
Plonkee
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
Is he willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Whence then comes evil?
-Epicurus, 3rd c. BCE
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
galathaea
> On Sep 12, 12:18 am, galathaea <galath...@veawb.coop> wrote:
>> i've been trying for some time to come up with crackpottiest theory
>> possible
>> something that indicates a little mental illness silhouetting a lost
>> soul
>> obsession
>> paranoia ...
>
> Religions with all their insights and truths would fit the bill
> logically if not mathematically.
but i am particularly interested in the _theory_ part of
"crackpottiest theory"
and religion doesn't fit the bill there
in particular
i require a physical model
something that can make predictions and be tested to observation
religion fails completely here as a theory
yes
i have only provided a sketch
and have not included the necessary equations
but i point to what they are
- the theorem of maximum entropy production
- magnetohydrodynamical flows
- nuclear recombination and decay
- stellar structure
things tested in colliders and other laboratories around the world
my ultimate goal
(besides my continual quest for self-debasement)
is defense of science in its most honorable forms
because of very corrosive ideas that have permeated certain groups
and the very poor understanding of science by positivists and
popperians
there have been movements towards fundamentalism
with consequent religious-like devotion of self-styled skeptics
people who like to throw around labels
like crackpot
k00k
...
in place of addressing the predictions of scientific content
it is extremely important to understand that religions
at least in the sense of the major uses of the term religion
fail to be even crackpot theories because they fail to be theories
conflating religion and science is the whole issue here
and besides
my theory is an exaltation of evolutionary processes for information
processing
hanson
"Uncle rect- Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:46E7F953...@hate.spam.net...
>
> galathaea wrote:
>> i've been trying for some time to come up with crackpottiest
>> theory possible something that indicates a little mental illness
>> you know
>> real attention whore street barking type crackpot
>
[rect-Al]
> The Bible, the Koran... climatism, fuel from crops; the US Federal tax
> code, Homeland Severity, Department of Education, legislated morality,
> income redistribution... anything externally impressed for your own
> good in which the impressor gets vigorish. Once the pig is born it
> only lacks lipstick and immortality.
>
> Cf.: Hitlery Ramrod Clinton. Yale law student Hillary Rodham enjoyed
> a very enthusiastic participation rallying The Community to support
> Warren Kimbro, Lonnie McLucas, George W. Sams, Jr., et al. (10
> defendants total) in the torture murder of fellow Black Panther Alex
> Rackley. Autopsy disclosed Rackley had been extenwsively tortured:
> wide area burns on his chest, wrists, buttocks, thighs, and right
> shoulder. He had been severely beaten with a hard object upon his
> face, groin, and lumbar region. He was killed by shots to his head
> and chest. The body was found with its hands bound. Probably not an
> accident or suicide.
>
> Ericka Huggins boiled the water for Mr. Rackley's torture. Some years
> later Ms. Huggins was elected to a California school board. The
> shooter, Warren Kimbro, got a scholarship to Harvard. He later became
> an assistant dean at Eastern Connecticut State College. Redemption! -
> or more of the same. Your choice.
>
> Vote for Hillary - a real attention whore street barking type
> crackpot.
>
[hanson]
How lame and fec-Al!.. You used to be macho, and not rect-Al,
... in the days of yore when you were not a boar... like here:
>
[Uncle Al]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.org.mensa/msg/572674e5060b55a3?hl=en&
::Al:: "DEATH to the poor. -- DEATH to the sick. -- DEATH to
::Al:: every cripple. DEATH to every retard. -- DEATH to every
::Al:: addict. -- DEATH to the queer and infected. -- DEATH
::Al:: to every Welfare parasite. -- DEATH to every Social
::Al:: Security parasite. -- DEATH to every prisoner with
::Al:: 10 or more years' prison sentence. -- DEATH to Night
::Al:: Basketball. DEATH to every sniveling conniving goddamned
::Al:: money-sucking Officially Sad sonofabitch in the world.
::Al:: DEATH to the entire Third World. Kill them all".
>
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.chem/msg/d05517e7f4de883d?hl=en&
::Al:: "I have no problem with killing the now and future enemy. An
::Al:: Earth with 3 billion people would be a much nicer place to live."
>
[hanson]
How do they call that syndrome when a homicidal & genocidal
psychopath goes soft?.. Is it encroaching senility or redemption?
Either way, thanks for the laughs... ahahaha... ahahahanson
Puppet_Sock
> i've been trying for some time to come up with
Why don't you try to find the shift key on your keyboard first.
Socks
malibu
My automatic ultra-skim cut in
and I dozed off.
Wha............?
John
Immortalist
> On Sep 12, 4:12 am, "achsofr...@yahoo.com" <dkw12...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 12, 12:18 am, galathaea <galath...@veawb.coop> wrote:
> >> i've been trying for some time to come up with crackpottiest theory
> >> possible
> >> something that indicates a little mental illness silhouetting a lost
> >> soul
> >> obsession
> >> paranoia ...
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ComplexityTheory.html
http://complexity.orcon.net.nz/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~allender/lecture.notes/
Immortalist
>
> "This is PHYSICS, not math or logic, and "proof" is completely
> irrelevant." -- Humpty Roberts.
[1] - Positive Universal Skepticism:
In its positive form it consists
of the doctrine that man
can know nothing.
This belief can be easily dismissed, because anyone who defends it
finds himself immersed in hopeless absurdities.
In asserting that there is no knowledge, the skeptic is asserting a
knowledge claim-which according to his own theory is impossible.
The universal skeptic wishes to
claim truth for a theory that
denies man's ability to arrive
at truth, and this puts the
skeptic in the unenviable
position of uttering
nonsense.
...he cannot even begin to argue for his position, because the
"possibility of knowledge is presupposed in the very possibility of
argument, in the very possibility of having recourse to reasons." [8]
As Francis Parker explains:
There is such a
thing as knowledge.
The assertion of this proposition is necessarily true if there is to
be
any assertion at all, for its contradictory is self-contradictory.
If the assertion
"There is no knowledge"
is true, then it is false
...for that assertion itself purports to be an instance of knowledge.
Thus the only alternative to the recognition of the existence of
knowledge is, as Aristotle said, a return to the vegetative state
where
no assertions whatever can be made.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.philosophy/msg/b86ea8051203c7f6
Bob Cain
Kewl! You really should take on L. Zick the next time he sobers up enough to
start a new blossom thread.
Bob
--
"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."
A. Einstein
G. L. Bradford
All that is required of a religion, culture, civilization, any structure,
any infrastructure, whatever its 'nature', is that it works.
Cyclic ages of Man, including ages of decline and fall into dark ages work
to a particular pattern of physics. I can see clearly what age you are most
clearly a representative of.
GLB
Timothy Golden BandTechnology.com
> > The universal skeptic wishes to
> > claim truth for a theory that
> > denies man's ability to arrive
> > at truth, and this puts the
> > skeptic in the unenviable
> > position of uttering
> > nonsense.
> time he sobers up enough to
> start a new blossom thread.
Well I have been reading the construction of the OP and trying to come
up with something clever.
But here is a frontal assault on skepticism that does not hold broad
merit and I will explain why. Perhaps instead of 'universal
skepticism' the author should have used 'absolutist skepticism' and
then the self contradiction would be more clearly stated.
For a long time I have drawn a clear line between the skeptic and the
pessimist. I won't go into great detail here but essentially my view
on skepticism is that the skeptic is capable of treating problems as
open. It is this willingness to go vacuously into a problem that
defines the skeptic. All human knowledge is constructed and it is the
skeptic who can see the layers and while a dim view may be taken on
the whole it is the skeptic who see the brightest places in the pile.
We deal in such an accumulation of knowledge that the need to dismiss
much of it for clear thought is self evident. We humans have limited
awareness. The more things we cram in and have gears spinning for in
our minds independent of one another the more toxic the system
becomes. A possibility of collapsing the accumulation and finding a
better route should be the driving force of every skeptic. This may
mean that the careful skeptic has little to say because of his own
uncertainties. There is a factor of stifling here that probably needs
to be balanced with a willingness to err. Fundamental understanding
may be wrong. For the human to know is merely to believe strongly. We
start from a blank state and what we learn along the way is all done
by mimicry especially if you believe in the accuracy of human
knowledge. Variations must be taken to progress. I suppose the non-
skeptic grows a twig out at the end of the tree and hopes for lots of
sunlight. Perhaps this is a good role, but the branch that you sprout
from is extremely critical to your growth and so on down to the roots
of the tree. As an accumulant in a system one who isolates themselves
up in the canopy seeking food will be different than the one who walks
the ground at the base of the tree studying its roots and witnessing
its structure.
My simplest statement on galathaea's puzzle is that we are free to
construct and if anything this act of construction deserves more
practice and encouragement. To weigh such constructions on their
consequences alone is not enough. A slender and clean basis will be
preferred as well. In this regard modern physics falls short. The
collage of constructions that have accumulated are toxic to the
skeptic.
-Tim