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--- Who said it is over?
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yjkooo
Apr 21, 2012, 2:03:19 PM4/21/12
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--- Who said it is over?
<?>---said; "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."
<?>---said; "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."
Dare
Apr 21, 2012, 3:01:38 PM4/21/12
to
"yjkooo" <yjkb...@att.net> wrote in message news:yDCkr.100452$%B6.8...@news.usenetserver.com...
"The thought of suicide is a great consolation:
by means of it one gets successfully through
many a bad night."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, _Beyond Good and Evil_ (Ch.IV, Aphorism 157)
> --- Who said it is over?
>
> <?>---said; "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."
or ....."Suicide is a solution to a problem."
>
> <?>---said; "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."
"The thought of suicide is a great consolation:
by means of it one gets successfully through
many a bad night."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, _Beyond Good and Evil_ (Ch.IV, Aphorism 157)
Fred M. McNeill
Apr 21, 2012, 3:30:45 PM4/21/12
to
Dare
Apr 21, 2012, 8:01:11 PM4/21/12
to
"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message news:4g26p7d5i293s6ofi...@4ax.com...
Seems often it is seen as the only solution for
a life filled with suffering and hopelessness...
is it "just" depression...or is there "rational" suicide?
Fred M. McNeill
Apr 22, 2012, 12:28:03 AM4/22/12
to
In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
What do you mean by "rational"?
Fred M. McNeill
Apr 22, 2012, 8:06:11 AM4/22/12
to
Both brain management means.
Dare
Apr 22, 2012, 10:04:19 AM4/22/12
to
"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message news:pq17p79vset1mhecn...@4ax.com...
if one has "dishonored" one's self or position.
> What do you mean by "rational"?
I was thinking of situations where the pain and hopelessness
had become so unbearable to the individual that "self-release"
seemed a "reasonable" and perhaps the only effective solution.
It seems to me the most significant aspect is the feeling of
absolute hopelessness...and/or an acknowledgement of
meaninglessness. Brain chemistry probably plays a role in it.
Seems it can affect anyone...even those with vibrant, successful lives:
Mike Wallace's Battle With Depression and Suicide
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/04/09/mike-wallaces-battle-with-depression-and-suicide/
At his lowest and most desperate, a bottle of pills and a suicide note
seemed like the only answer for the legendary journalist Mike Wallace.
The CBS 60 Minutes correspondent could make some of the most
powerful leaders in the world sweat with nervousness, but Wallace
will also be remembered as a voice and face for those who have suffered
in silence with depression and other mental illnesses.....
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:01:11 -0400, "Dare" <clyd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message news:4g26p7d5i293s6ofi...@4ax.com...
>
>>
>>"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message news:4g26p7d5i293s6ofi...@4ax.com...
>>> Suicide is not entertaining.
>>
>>No it is not.
>>Seems often it is seen as the only solution for
>>a life filled with suffering and hopelessness...
>>is it "just" depression...or is there "rational" suicide?
>
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
That's true...some cultures have even expected suicide
>>
>>No it is not.
>>Seems often it is seen as the only solution for
>>a life filled with suffering and hopelessness...
>>is it "just" depression...or is there "rational" suicide?
>
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
if one has "dishonored" one's self or position.
> What do you mean by "rational"?
had become so unbearable to the individual that "self-release"
seemed a "reasonable" and perhaps the only effective solution.
It seems to me the most significant aspect is the feeling of
absolute hopelessness...and/or an acknowledgement of
meaninglessness. Brain chemistry probably plays a role in it.
Seems it can affect anyone...even those with vibrant, successful lives:
Mike Wallace's Battle With Depression and Suicide
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/04/09/mike-wallaces-battle-with-depression-and-suicide/
At his lowest and most desperate, a bottle of pills and a suicide note
seemed like the only answer for the legendary journalist Mike Wallace.
The CBS 60 Minutes correspondent could make some of the most
powerful leaders in the world sweat with nervousness, but Wallace
will also be remembered as a voice and face for those who have suffered
in silence with depression and other mental illnesses.....
Dare
Apr 22, 2012, 10:12:51 AM4/22/12
to
"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message news:prs7p75r71t4bj4lp...@4ax.com...
Belief in the power of prayer can bring great comfort.
Sometimes I mourn my loss of faith....
can prayer change brain chemistry as effectively as "chemical" chemistry?
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:01:11 -0400, "Dare" <clyd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote
>>
>>
>>"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote
>>
>>> Suicide is not entertaining.
>>
>>No it is not.
>>Seems often it is seen as the only solution for
>>a life filled with suffering and hopelessness...
>>is it "just" depression...or is there "rational" suicide?
>
> Better living through chemistry and prayer.
> Both brain management means.
Yes..and often very effective.
>>
>>No it is not.
>>Seems often it is seen as the only solution for
>>a life filled with suffering and hopelessness...
>>is it "just" depression...or is there "rational" suicide?
>
> Better living through chemistry and prayer.
> Both brain management means.
Belief in the power of prayer can bring great comfort.
Sometimes I mourn my loss of faith....
can prayer change brain chemistry as effectively as "chemical" chemistry?
Fred M. McNeill
Apr 22, 2012, 4:44:43 PM4/22/12
to
religion not required. The 'practice' influences the brain, that is
enough. There is probably a genetic basis, as the effects are
ubiquitous in 'humans',
Fred M. McNeill
Apr 22, 2012, 4:53:40 PM4/22/12
to
even so called natural death, even suicides,
Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
are becoming detrimental.
tooly
Apr 22, 2012, 11:44:17 PM4/22/12
to
On Apr 22, 12:28 am, Fred M. McNeill <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:01:11 -0400, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in messagenews:4g26p7d5i293s6ofi...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:01:38 -0400, "Dare" <clydad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>"yjkooo" <yjkbre...@att.net> wrote in messagenews:yDCkr.100452$%B6.8...@news.usenetserver.com...
Still, men tried to fly long before they found a way to have
'wings' [airplanes]. So, maybe the 'wish' must come before the
rational actualization? In this case, suicide might seem justifiable
at the moment, but there's always the lottery to win...and
someone does win it.
BTW, wasn't it a hoot to see the couple from Maryland win that giant
lottery last week. They looked like your ordinary working
stiffs, with a pleasant dispostion; could have been 'anyone's aunt or
uncle. Made me feel good [better than some bum or those who
don't need it winning it]. See, what if they had been contemplating
suicide the day before? Still...probabilities are miniscule for
most of us....but doesn't keep us from dreaming.
Maybe that's the secret to defray suicide...our imagination and
capacity to DREAM [about things that will never happen].
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:01:11 -0400, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in messagenews:4g26p7d5i293s6ofi...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:01:38 -0400, "Dare" <clydad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>"yjkooo" <yjkbre...@att.net> wrote in messagenews:yDCkr.100452$%B6.8...@news.usenetserver.com...
> >>>> --- Who said it is over?
>
> >>>> <?>---said; "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."
>
> >>>or ....."Suicide is a solution to a problem."
>
> >>>"The thought of suicide is a great consolation:
> >>>by means of it one gets successfully through
> >>>many a bad night."
> >>>-Friedrich Nietzsche, _Beyond Good and Evil_ (Ch.IV, Aphorism 157)
>
> >> Suicide is not entertaining.
>
> >No it is not.
> >Seems often it is seen as the only solution for
> >a life filled with suffering and hopelessness...
> >is it "just" depression...or is there "rational" suicide?
>
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> What do you mean by "rational"?
how about 'does the probability bear out the possibility'?
>
> >>>> <?>---said; "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."
>
> >>>or ....."Suicide is a solution to a problem."
>
> >>>"The thought of suicide is a great consolation:
> >>>by means of it one gets successfully through
> >>>many a bad night."
> >>>-Friedrich Nietzsche, _Beyond Good and Evil_ (Ch.IV, Aphorism 157)
>
> >> Suicide is not entertaining.
>
> >No it is not.
> >Seems often it is seen as the only solution for
> >a life filled with suffering and hopelessness...
> >is it "just" depression...or is there "rational" suicide?
>
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> What do you mean by "rational"?
Still, men tried to fly long before they found a way to have
'wings' [airplanes]. So, maybe the 'wish' must come before the
rational actualization? In this case, suicide might seem justifiable
at the moment, but there's always the lottery to win...and
someone does win it.
BTW, wasn't it a hoot to see the couple from Maryland win that giant
lottery last week. They looked like your ordinary working
stiffs, with a pleasant dispostion; could have been 'anyone's aunt or
uncle. Made me feel good [better than some bum or those who
don't need it winning it]. See, what if they had been contemplating
suicide the day before? Still...probabilities are miniscule for
most of us....but doesn't keep us from dreaming.
Maybe that's the secret to defray suicide...our imagination and
capacity to DREAM [about things that will never happen].
tooly
Apr 22, 2012, 11:53:47 PM4/22/12
to
On Apr 22, 4:53 pm, Fred M. McNeill <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:04:19 -0400, "Dare" <clydad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in messagenews:pq17p79vset1mhecn...@4ax.com...
> >>>"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in messagenews:4g26p7d5i293s6ofi...@4ax.com...
biogenesis....right? If the ultimate endpoint is to only discover
hopelessness, then it may be an 'experiment' bound for failure.
Imagine, on some universal level, where perhaps there are
millions of planets out there where DNA is evolving in various ways,
all trying to 'fit' enironments, while perhaps on a universal level,
also trying to 'come together' in some measurable fashion, what
'experiment' would be the ultimate winner [if intelligence can't
be, for the dead end point of hopelessness]? Perhaps a 'less
intelligence' maybe; one where certain minimal aspects of science and
matth
must be found for travel through the stars, but not so much that it
can decipher this morbid wall of materialism.
Or maybe, it all just goes to be a machine...dead, cold, lifeless like
a computer...but whirrring away calculations by the boatload.
To something so cold and calculating, I meaning would perhaps be
'meaningless' in itself. Hmmm...what would justify it's 'existence
then I wonder?
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:04:19 -0400, "Dare" <clydad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in messagenews:pq17p79vset1mhecn...@4ax.com...
> >>>"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in messagenews:4g26p7d5i293s6ofi...@4ax.com...
> >>>> Suicide is not entertaining.
>
> >>>No it is not.
> >>>Seems often it is seen as the only solution for
> >>>a life filled with suffering and hopelessness...
> >>>is it "just" depression...or is there "rational" suicide?
>
> >> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> >> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> >> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> >That's true...some cultures have even expected suicide
> >if one has "dishonored" one's self or position.
>
> >> What do you mean by "rational"?
>
> >I was thinking of situations where the pain and hopelessness
> >had become so unbearable to the individual that "self-release"
> >seemed a "reasonable" and perhaps the only effective solution.
> >It seems to me the most significant aspect is the feeling of
> >absolute hopelessness...and/or an acknowledgement of
> >meaninglessness. Brain chemistry probably plays a role in it.
> >Seems it can affect anyone...even those with vibrant, successful lives:
>
> >Mike Wallace's Battle With Depression and Suicide
> >http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/04/09/mike-wallaces-battle-wi...
>
> >>>No it is not.
> >>>Seems often it is seen as the only solution for
> >>>a life filled with suffering and hopelessness...
> >>>is it "just" depression...or is there "rational" suicide?
>
> >> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> >> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> >> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> >That's true...some cultures have even expected suicide
> >if one has "dishonored" one's self or position.
>
> >> What do you mean by "rational"?
>
> >I was thinking of situations where the pain and hopelessness
> >had become so unbearable to the individual that "self-release"
> >seemed a "reasonable" and perhaps the only effective solution.
> >It seems to me the most significant aspect is the feeling of
> >absolute hopelessness...and/or an acknowledgement of
> >meaninglessness. Brain chemistry probably plays a role in it.
> >Seems it can affect anyone...even those with vibrant, successful lives:
>
> >Mike Wallace's Battle With Depression and Suicide
>
> >At his lowest and most desperate, a bottle of pills and a suicide note
> >seemed like the only answer for the legendary journalist Mike Wallace.
>
> >The CBS 60 Minutes correspondent could make some of the most
> >powerful leaders in the world sweat with nervousness, but Wallace
> >will also be remembered as a voice and face for those who have suffered
> >in silence with depression and other mental illnesses.....
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
You know, intelligence must be only 'another' experiment in
> >At his lowest and most desperate, a bottle of pills and a suicide note
> >seemed like the only answer for the legendary journalist Mike Wallace.
>
> >The CBS 60 Minutes correspondent could make some of the most
> >powerful leaders in the world sweat with nervousness, but Wallace
> >will also be remembered as a voice and face for those who have suffered
> >in silence with depression and other mental illnesses.....
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
biogenesis....right? If the ultimate endpoint is to only discover
hopelessness, then it may be an 'experiment' bound for failure.
Imagine, on some universal level, where perhaps there are
millions of planets out there where DNA is evolving in various ways,
all trying to 'fit' enironments, while perhaps on a universal level,
also trying to 'come together' in some measurable fashion, what
'experiment' would be the ultimate winner [if intelligence can't
be, for the dead end point of hopelessness]? Perhaps a 'less
intelligence' maybe; one where certain minimal aspects of science and
matth
must be found for travel through the stars, but not so much that it
can decipher this morbid wall of materialism.
Or maybe, it all just goes to be a machine...dead, cold, lifeless like
a computer...but whirrring away calculations by the boatload.
To something so cold and calculating, I meaning would perhaps be
'meaningless' in itself. Hmmm...what would justify it's 'existence
then I wonder?
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