The Great Scientists who built modern Civilisation - Einstein
fasgnadh
"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe.
We are like a little child entering a huge library.
The walls are covered to the ceilings with books
in many different tongues.
The child knows that someone must have written these books.
It does not know who or how. It does not understand the
languages in which they are written. But the child notes a
definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but
only dimly suspects." - Albert Einstein
Einstein stated at times that he did not believe in a Personal God,
and thus, like many theists, he did not pray for favours, like a child
with a shopping list of wants and desires he expected God to fulfil.
Einstein accepted fully that man was a RATIONAL being with a capacity
to understand MEANING, if endowed with a Religious sensibility..which
is also the essential pre-requisite for theist *worship*, a sense of
awe and wonder, and of the remarkable order and structure to the Universe;
" ..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued
with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source
of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of Religion...
science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
Naturally, even agnostics, who agree that there is no *conclusive*
proof for the non-existence of God(Atheism) or the existence of
God(Theism, acknowledge this central role which Religion plays and
has always played, in the evolving human civilisation, and the
scientific inquiry which has deepened it's understanding.
The first of those imbued with this Spirit were those who contemplated
the world around us, and the Universe beyond, with the awe and
wonderment contained in the single word:
Lo! - behold.
--
"Awake! for Morning in the Bowl of Night
Has flung the Stone that puts the Stars to Flight:
And Lo! the Hunter of the East has caught
The Sultan's Turret in a Noose of Light."
fasgnadh
# The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
# in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
#
# - Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
Galileo was actually persecuted by the Church for his radical
vision (not as severely as the atheist regimes of the 20th century
persecuted their 70,000,000 victims, and the Church, unlike the
atheists, has apologised for it's mistake) ..but he remained a
believer!
# I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
# with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
# and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
# them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
# matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct
# experience or
# necessary demonstrations.
#
# - Galileo Galilei 1615.
At that time, all the atheists, and all the theists believed,
in their ignorance, that the Earth the centre of the Solar system
and the sun and stars revolved around it. It took a theist
scientist, as has usually been the case all through human history,
to lead mankind out of ignorance and into a new and deeper understanding
of reality
Galileao, like all of the Great Scientists, Mathematicians,
Atrists, Thinkers and Composers who have built our civilisation,
was imbued with that Religious perspective which Einstein said
was essential to Science, the Theist perspective that the Universe
has meaning, that the meaning can be discovered and revealed by
the human mind and it's rational endowment.
This same Spirit of Rational Inquiry, a belief that the Universe
CAN be unravelled, has been central not only to Christian civilisation,
but also that of Islam, and it is found in the Hindu development of
astronomy and the Zero, and expressed in Herman Hesse's poem on
change, transformation and evolution to new and higher states;
As every flower fades and as all youth
departs, so life at every stage,
so every virtue, so our grasp of truth,
blooms in its day and may not last forever.
Since life may summon us at any age
be ready heart, for parting, new endeavour,
be ready bravely and without remorse
to find new light that old ties cannot give.
In all beginnings dwells a magic force
for guiding us and helping us to live.
Serenely let us move to distant places
and let no sentiments of home detain us
The cosmic spirit seeks not to restrain us
but lifts us stage by stage to wider spaces.
If we accept a home of our own making
familiar habits makes for indolence
we must prepare for parting and leave-taking
or else remain the slaves of permanence.
Even the hour of our death may send
us speeding on to fresh and newer spaces
and life may summon us to newer races
so be it, heart, bid farewell without end.
Herman Hesse
--
~ The Sun Never Says ~
Even
after
all this time
the sun never says to the earth,
"You owe me."
Look
what happens
With a love like that-
it lights the whole
world.
Ha-fez (1310 -1337)
bigfl...@gmail.com
I agree with all the sentiments expressed here.
The only problem is the concept of god, from whatever cultural
background, is a variation of an anthomorphisation, which is patently
absurd.
Very useful to create a man made need for hierarchical
positioning,which is a variation on the universal pecking order. Dogs
do it instinctively, we, intellectually.
Miracles are often referred to as some sort of validation regarding
the founders of the various religions. To leave out the obvious
'chinese whisper' componant, it is amazing what a group of people can
do, when they all focus on the one issue. Not news to metaphysicians.
It is time for many, to let go of such past convoluted images, and
starts to investigate their spiritual dimensions (which has always
been a 'no no' from the hierachy...devils work and other such
controlling beliefs.
BOfL
fasgnadh
> I agree with all the sentiments expressed here.
Of course, they are the foundations of the rational civilisation theists
like Galileo built.
They contrast with atheism, which has only produced totalitarian
states.
Lets examine this atheists post and see if we can find clues as to WHY;
> The only problem is the concept of god,
Not for Galileo, hje seems to have a more functional version of it than you.
Lets see what's wrong with yours:
> from whatever cultural background,
A bit sweeping.. where's you evidence?
> is a variation of an anthomorphisation,
that's a mere assertion to.. no evidence whatsoever! 8^o
> which is patently absurd.
I'm glad you can acknowledge your failings.
You seem to be the EXACT opposite of a rational thinking theist
like Galieo.
I'M afraid his accomplishments lead one to believe HIS view of reality
is far superior (and useful, and FRUITFUL) that yours.
Now you go on to confuse Galileo's clearly functional faith
with the Church.. which we have already dismissed as WRONG.
> Very useful to create a man made need for hierarchical
> positioning,which is a variation on the universal pecking order. Dogs
> do it instinctively, we, intellectually.
No one is interested in the limitations of the ORGANISATION, which is
after all human, when we have the success represented by Galileo's
rational theism.. which became more influential over time.
Now EVERY schoolchild in religious schools studies Galileo, and
the Chuirch itself has admitted it's error.. you are flogging a DEAD
HORSE!
What is shocking in contrast to the Church's apology to Glalileo,
is how atheists refuse to apologise for 70,000,000 victims
of atheist states!
The church accepts it's responsibility and repents,
Atheists are in denial.
The rest seems to be irrelevant ramblings of no interest;
> Miracles are often referred to as some sort of validation regarding
> the founders of the various religions. To leave out the obvious
> 'chinese whisper' componant, it is amazing what a group of people can
> do, when they all focus on the one issue. Not news to metaphysicians.
>
> It is time for many, to let go of such past convoluted images, and
> starts to investigate their spiritual dimensions (which has always
> been a 'no no' from the hierachy...devils work and other such
> controlling beliefs.
>
> BOfL
Thank you for the contrast with the rational Theist, Galileo.
you have demonstrated your familiarity with the opposite, based on
your irrational stereotype.
I prefer Galileos rational theism to your irrational athesim.
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Bill M
"fasgnadh" <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:N7ZEm.49866$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Among other things, Fas wrote "Galileao" in the subject line.
> Of course, they are the foundations of the rational civilisation theists
> like Galileo built.
To the extent that Galileo Galilei built anything he was non-Catholic
and to the extent he was a Catholic he built nothing.
>
> They contrast with atheism
Which does not stand in the way of scientific discovery the way
Catholicism too often did, and does. There is no dogma to atheism the
way there is to Catholicism.
>
>
> > The only problem is the concept of god,
>
> Not for Galileo
But there are at least as many mutually incompatible concepts of god as
there are theisms, and possibly as many as there are theists.
>
> Lets see what's wrong with yours:
>
I am agnostic and have no concept god at all, having rejected all those
proposed to me.
>
> > from whatever cultural background,
At least as much evidence for that as for any of the mutually
incompatible flavors of theist belief.
> > is a variation of an anthomorphisation,
>
> that's a mere assertion to.. no evidence whatsoever!
At least as much evidence for that as for any of the mutually
incompatible flavors of theist belief.
> > Very useful to create a man made need for hierarchical
> > positioning,which is a variation on the universal pecking order. Dogs
> > do it instinctively, we, intellectually.
>
>
>
> No one is interested in the limitations of the ORGANISATION
But the organization in Galilei's time was alleged by itself to be
infallible. So the limitations (fallibility) of that organization become
of great interest in determining the validity of its raison d'etre.
>
> Now EVERY schoolchild in religious schools studies Galileo, and
> the Chuirch itself has admitted it's error.. you are flogging a DEAD
> HORSE!
That church is certainly dead, but why do you call it a horse?
>
> What is shocking in contrast to the Church's apology to Glalileo,
> is how atheists refuse to apologise for 70,000,000 victims
> of atheist states!
Unless all present theists of whatever flavor apologize for all the
crimes of all theists of even different flavors in the past, there is no
reason why any non-communist atheist today need apologize for the
actions of any communist atheist.
>
> The church accepts it's responsibility and repents,
It does not seem to repent over the more current sins of its pederast
priests
>
> Atheists are in denial.
They certainly deny any responsibility for actions of others over which
they had no control.
>
> I prefer Galileos rational theism to your irrational athesim.
And we prefer Galileo's science to your superstition.
Don H
# So, what have we here? Is "fasgnadh" giving us a vague statement of what
he believes instead of his usual fulminations against the evil Atheists?
Nice try, but full of assumptions and unproven assertions.
"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe." True enough;
the human brain evolved as a food-gathering, and reproductive, tool - not to
solve the Mystery of the Cosmos.
"Einstein stated at times that he did not believe in a Personal God, and
thus, like many theists..." - that would technically make him a Deist.
Man may be a rational being, but as astronomer Fred Hoyle put it - a
human is like a computer with the instincts of a rat. This unfortunate
coupling may yet prove our downfall.
We can feel a sense of awe and wonder at the cosmos without religion
being involved in any way.
Religion has no copyright or patent on that.
Did Great Scientists build modern civilisation? Not necessarily. The
primitive tribe had the witchdoctor, the shaman who supposedly had esoteric
knowledge not granted to the ordinary native, and the priest, and scientist,
follow in such tradition. Cities originated when agriculture was
discovered, and nomadic hunting tribes settled down to a stationary
existence. The priests had little to do with this, unless they discovered
plants and crops.
Civilisation means "living in cities", and if this gave some folk
leisure time to study, it was usually confined to a wealthy elite, while
most toiled in field or shop or artisan works.
Civilisations gave rise to armies and conquest, and kingdoms - and could
be as barbaric as any nomadic tribe.
The world of Science produced Technology, as useful for evil as for
good - and mass extinction of human and non-human lives.
So, "fasgnadh" your arguments don't prove the existence of deity, nor
relevance of religion in the modern world. Only evidence can prove God.
The world of Nature may act like some vast machine, grinding on
remorselessly - but there is no sign of a mechanic. Any dynamic universe
(as compared with static) must operate by some set of "laws", but these, to
science, are descriptive, not prescriptive, and mindless, not teleological.
God is as likely to be crustacean as human, and not necessarily
benevolent.
Michael Gordge
>
> Naturally, even agnostics, who agree that there is no *conclusive*
> proof for the non-existence of God
Thats what makes them soo fucking stupid, cowards stuck on the fence
of evasion with their feet dangling into the mystic's camp ready to
leap right on in, the agnostic is the mystic in waiting.
> (Atheism)
About what?
MG
z1
as Bob Carter said:
"A well-accepted aphorism about science, in the context of difference of
opinion between two points of view, is �Madam, you are entitled to your
own interpretation, but not to your own facts�. "
If you need a 'god' to explain the beginning of the universe or anything
else in between, then you are really in denial.
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>>
>> "The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe.
>> We are like a little child entering a huge library.
>> The walls are covered to the ceilings with books
>> in many different tongues.
>> The child knows that someone must have written these books.
>> It does not know who or how. It does not understand the
>> languages in which they are written. But the child notes a
>> definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
>> mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but
>> only dimly suspects." - Albert Einstein
>>
>> Einstein stated at times that he did not believe in a Personal God,
>> and thus, like many theists, he did not pray for favours, like a child
>> with a shopping list of wants and desires he expected God to fulfil.
>>
>> Einstein accepted fully that man was a RATIONAL being with a capacity
>> to understand MEANING, if endowed with a Religious sensibility..which
>> is also the essential pre-requisite for theist *worship*, a sense of
>> awe and wonder, and of the remarkable order and structure to the Universe;
>>
>> " ..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued
>> with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source
>> of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of Religion...
>> science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
>>
>> - Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
>>
>> God(Theism, acknowledge this central role which Religion plays and
>> has always played, in the evolving human civilisation, and the
>> scientific inquiry which has deepened it's understanding.
>
See, that's why agnostics reject atheism! You are rude, ignorant,
dogmatic and full of hatred and venom.. no wonder the insightful
books of the worlds great religions describe you as Vipers.
Even the other non believers, over 95% of them, REJECT ATHEISM;
# Subject: Re: US religious now at 85% - It's GOD in a LANDSLIDE!!!
# -Atheists wallow at 2.3% worldwide, 0.7% in the USA! -a pitiful
# fraction of the minority of non-believers! B^D
#
# From: fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au>
# Newsgroups:
# alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.religion,aus.politics,
# alt.politics.republicans, alt.politics.democrats,uk.politics.misc
# Message-ID: <8QNtl.26734$cu.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:07:32 GMT
#
# American Religious Identification Survey, Summary Report March 2009:
#
# "Self-identification of U.S. Adult Population by Religious Tradition
#
# 2001 2008
#
# Non- religious 29,481,000 (14.1%) 34,169,000 (15%)
#
# Religious 167,254,000 (80%) 182,198,000 (80%)
#
# Agnostics 991,000 (0.5%) 1,985,000 (0.9%)
#
# Atheists 902,000 (0.4%) 1,621,000 (0.7%)
#
#
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA!
#
#
# 0.7% of Americans!! B^D 2.3% worldwide!!! B^D
#
# 'NON-RELIGIOUS' DOES NOT = ATHEIST, YOU DISHONEST CRETINS!
#
#
# EVEN THE AGNOSTICS BEAT YOU!!! **AND** they grew FASTER!!!! B^D
Athiests are 4% of the NON-Believers!! B^D
Than means 96 out of every 100 non-believers EXPLICITLY reject atheism,
and yet you dogmatic and arrogant thugs try to speak for all of us?
FOAD!
Here's another reason why atheists are the most DISTRUSTED minority in
the USA.. you are abusive BEFORE you even hear another's argument.
> cowards stuck on the fence
I wait till your own post reveals what an irrational fool you are,
and then accurately label you as one.. (of course atheists then
scream and bleat that *I* am 'hateful..' because they PROJECT their own
behaviour onto others all the time! but they are insignificant! ;-)
It is not cowardice to admit the truth; it is cowardice to
SNIP IT, as you did, because you atheists cannot DEAL with the Truth;
Agnosticism is the DEFAULT rational position becasue there is no
*conclusive* roof for the non-existence of God(Atheism) or the existence
of God(Theism). There can be a logical proof of theism, there cannot
be a logical proof of atheism.. so logically an agnostic would keep
an open mind toward theism.
There is also plenty of historical evidence, mixed for theism,
totally negative for atheism.
Atheists lose in any rational assessment of the position, even at the
first cut.
There is also a whole corpus of evidence of the efficacy of spiritual
teachings.. even atheists prefer to live in majority RELIGIOUS
societies, which have evolved democratic, even SECULAR governments,
rather than atheist states which have ALL ( 100%!!! ) been shitholes!
You can't argue with the historical facts... atheism SUCKS!
And finally, I don't need conclusive proof that my wife loves me,
there is sufficient evidence to sustain a rational >>belief<<.
So it is with God.
Atheism and agnosticism are based on PROOF, Atheism doesn't
have any, and agnostics don't need any!
Theism is based upon beliefs.. all too Mystic for you atheists..
you best keep your mouths shut and stay out of it! B^]
> of evasion with their feet dangling into the mystic's camp
See there's why you are such a tiny, fringe nutter group...
you all fantasise like crazy.. Budikka is a Sci Fi nut,
Gray plays wargames, Fluffy calls himself a Warlord FFS!! B^D
Trance craps on about Selling the Vatican.. you are all mad
as cut snakes.... B^]
But then you bag really interesting mystics who have profound
things to say! pffft!
You are boring, dogmatic, doctrinaire, adolescents, clearly
lacking in wit, originality or talent who band together
to feel superior, stroke each others weak ego's and ritually
spit on theists!
It's a HOOT to watch, and a cinch to de-construct, mock
and deride to OBLIVION.... and that's why I have taken out
your entire 'intellignesia'.. because you are witless dimwits.
B^]
And it's time to let you in on another secret....
I'm not talking TO you, I'm using you all as teaching aids.
That's why i love being in your cult's KILLFILES..
This is how people with Killfiles look to everyone else:
http://www.tomandang.com/blog/images/headUpArse.jpg
Think about it as the paranoia festers! B^D
> ready to
> leap right on in, the agnostic is the mystic in waiting.
See, the way you knuckle-dragging trogs dismiss the mystic
sages, when you are all functionally illiterate is a RIOT! B^D
You parade your ignorance with pride! B^]
Rumi wrote about you SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS AGO;
1504
Do not sit long with a sad friend
When you go to a garden
do you look at thorns or flowers?
Spend more time with roses and jasmine.
Atheists are in pain.. their posts are endless whining...
one long string of abuse...
it reflects upon you, not those you direct it towards;
When a simpleton abused him, Buddha listened to him in silence,
but when the man had finished asked him,
"Son, if a man declined to accept a present offered to him,
to whom would it belong?"
The man answered "To him who offered it."
"My son," Buddha said, "I decline to accept your abuse. Keep it for
yourself."
- Will Durant The Story of Civilization.
>> The first of those imbued with this Spirit were those who
>> contemplated the world around us,
>> and the Universe beyond, with the awe and
>> wonderment contained in the single word:
>>
>>
>> Lo! - behold.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> "Awake! for Morning in the Bowl of Night
>> Has flung the Stone that puts the Stars to Flight:
>> And Lo! the Hunter of the East has caught
>> The Sultan's Turret in a Noose of Light."
Is it mysticism, or simply poetry describing dawn light,
.. or for the truly Blessed.. Both. 8^)
panam...@hotmail.com
fasgnadh
Oh Good Lord.. is there no end to the atheist obsession with me!???
I AM NOT THE STORY..
I know all you atheists NEED a God Figure..
you had Lenin, he fucked up
you had Stalin, he fucked up
you had Mao, he fucked up
you had Pol Pot, he fucked up
you had Kim Ill Fuk, he fukked up
now you only have Kim Sik Fuk, Dawkins, Warlord Fluffy
and Trance Stupor....
can you see a pattern here?
Are you ready, yet, to abandon the CULT OF THE PERSONALITY!? B^D
Perhaps if you had a Real God, you wouldn't need all those crackpots? B^p
Your endless attempts to put me in a Box, so you can apply
one of the Standard Borg Scripts, simply isn't working..
It's been ten months and I have eviscerated your leading Chumpions..
you have no one left but Virgil, Syd, Warlord Fluffy and Princess Pussy...
you are fucked!
To rub salt in your wounds...
I have repeatedly, openly honestly told you what I believe,
what I know, and what I admit is not conclusively provable..
I have quoted you the Qur'an, the Gita, Herman Hesse, Taj Mahal,
Maimonides, Rumi, Siddhartha, Einstein.. you don't seem to get
any of it...
> Nice try, but full of assumptions and unproven assertions.
> "The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe." True enough;
> the human brain evolved as a food-gathering, and reproductive, tool - not to
> solve the Mystery of the Cosmos.
> "Einstein stated at times that he did not believe in a Personal God, and
> thus, like many theists..." - that would technically make him a Deist.
> Man may be a rational being, but as astronomer Fred Hoyle put it - a
> human is like a computer with the instincts of a rat. This unfortunate
> coupling may yet prove our downfall.
For atheists who see thmeselves as computers with rat instincts,, you
have already, repeatedly demonstrated that you are doomed.
The USSR, Maoist China, etc... all totalitarian shitholes which killed
tens of millions.. but since abandoning the atheist worldview, both have
advanced and prospered.
You should think through the implications of that. B^]
> We can feel a sense of awe and wonder at the cosmos without religion
> being involved in any way.
> Religion has no copyright or patent on that.
Yes it does.
The atheist regimes are the proof... they COMPLETELEY LACKED IT! 8^o
Unrelentingly dreary and soul destroying.. it was the Spiritual
cancer which destroyed them.
Is there much more of your potted sociology to sit through
before you make a point.. it's like Bukakke endlessly
repeating her evolutionary lectures as if it belonged
to atheism.. It's taught in every mainstream Religious school
in Australia!
> Did Great Scientists build modern civilisation? Not necessarily. The
> primitive tribe had the witchdoctor, the shaman who supposedly had esoteric
> knowledge not granted to the ordinary native, and the priest, and scientist,
> follow in such tradition. Cities originated when agriculture was
> discovered, and nomadic hunting tribes settled down to a stationary
> existence. The priests had little to do with this, unless they discovered
> plants and crops.
Why do you keep confusing religion with Theism.
You seem able to understand that human societies take ideas like
Monarchy and do quite different things with them, from
Bloody Mary to Good Queen Bess. But you don't seem able to understand
that some human societies implemented spiritual teachings and others
paid them lip service.
In other words you have a simplistic view of the history of religion.
Basically, humans chose it, not atheism, becasue it was more useful.
You only have to compare the BEST of majority religious societies,
Australia, Indonesia, The USA, Europe, to the Best Atheist societies,
the USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pots Genocide.. to see the point.
All the rest is just whining by those who did nothing about those
who did at least a half-arsed job.
You will always come off worst!
> Civilisation means "living in cities", and if this gave some folk
> leisure time to study, it was usually confined to a wealthy elite, while
> most toiled in field or shop or artisan works.
> Civilisations gave rise to armies and conquest, and kingdoms - and could
> be as barbaric as any nomadic tribe.
> The world of Science produced Technology, as useful for evil as for
> good - and mass extinction of human and non-human lives.
> So, "fasgnadh" your arguments don't prove the existence of deity,
So you really have no point to make
Nowhere did I claim it did.
You are incapable of rational discussion.. you are just a Bot.
The great scientists who built our civilisation were predominately theist.
The progressive, free democratic societies YOU atheists choose to live
in are universally Majority Religious.. no atheist societies are worth
living in, as your choices prove.
That is my argument. You atheists keep wanting me to Prove God, defend
Creationsism.. solve your personal problems, wipe your geriatric arses..
but I'm not interested..
Arse wiping is Steve Knights job, and arse kissing is Virgil's.
I'm simply demonstrating the unsuitability of atheism for any sane
or rational human individual or society... it seems to be an easy task!
B^]
fasgnadh
So atheists reject Galileo and Hesse as nonsense.
Interesting.
I guess you all prefer Mao and Pol Pot;
The Cultural Devolution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIrUHVFkm9A
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I agree with all the sentiments expressed here.
>>
>> Of course, they are the foundations of the rational civilisation theists
>> like Galileo built.
>>
>> They contrast with atheism, which has only produced totalitarian
>> states.
>>
>> Lets examine this atheists post and see if we can find clues as to WHY;
>>
>>
>>> The only problem is the concept of god,
>>
>> Not for Galileo, he seems to have a more functional version of it than
>> I prefer Galileo's rational theism to your irrational athesim.
IAAH
You might not look as much an enormous prat if you
could demonstrate that you had the first idea of
what being an agnostic meant, you know.
Here is your first hint: It doesn't mean "Oh, I'm
just not sure, so I'll waffle about it."
Don H
# If "fasgnadh" in his wildest dreams imagines HE would ever be any
Atheist's God Figure, he is completely deluded.
Most of us, presumably, continue to attack "fasgnadh"'s myths because
the Great Man continues to promulgate them. Not that our efforts are ever
likely to penetrate his thick skull, but it gives us amusement to try.
As for the demise of Communism, the news of its death (as Mark Twain
said of his own) may be rather exaggerated; as Cuba hangs on, as does North
Korea, Vietnam, Laos, and (nominally) China.
Socialism (where not seen as synonymous with Communism) is alive and
well in South America, where even Cuba is no longer an outcast (USA
protesting).
The Fall of the Berlin Wall was accompanied by much crowing by the
Plutocratic West, as, by implication, ushering in Utopian Capitalism.
Unfortunately, 19th century capitalism has the same faults it always
had, as the Financial Meltdown world-wide indicates.
The Soviet Union may have voluntarily disintegrated too soon, and maybe
should have modified its Command Economy, instead of letting gangsters
privatise it all.
As to resurgence of the Russian Orthodox Church, and other reactionary
tendencies re the Eternal Life Insurance industry - this delusion will
slowly be vaporised, as the hard facts of a secular, sceptical, and
scientific, Age, dawn.
The main concern of Homo Sap nowadays is to restrain itself from its War
on Nature, or die out.
As for "fasgnadh" and the non-existent God of his beloved Theists - get
real! Man is a Social Animal, and we don't need Big Daddy to tell us how to
inter-react gregariously; not if we're mature adults, that is.
Don H
# If an atheist is "someone who does not believe in any god", then ALL
non-believers are atheists, like it or not. And if religious fanatics come
hunting for heretics they are not likely to discriminate; and all
non-theists will burn at the stake, as it is better that the transient flesh
should suffer so the spirit can be purified. (That's the theory; in reality,
we take a sadistic pleasure in your agony - like the Taliban or Saudis, in
flogging women.)
"Spirituality" is the phlogiston theory of religion.
Michael Gordge
> See, that's why agnostics reject atheism! You are rude, ignorant,
> dogmatic and full of hatred and venom.. no wonder the insightful
> books of the worlds great religions describe you as Vipers.
Hey dopey, if the mystical nonsense you call god one day appeared on
earth (as you claim it will) and says, "hi everyone, I am anglican and
its ok for you methodists to drink alcohol and its ok for you muslim
woman to show your face in public and its ok for the catholics to
drink the wine in church" what do you believe would happen?
How pissed off would the catholics be finding out that god was in fact
muslim?
MG
Michael Gordge
>
> # If an atheist is "someone who does not believe in any god",......
For that to make any sense to an atheist you would have to explain
what you mean by god.
MG
fasgnadh
That's the sixth time you have posted that clip,
Are you sexually abusing that puppy?
fasgnadh
And every time the Vipers slither and hiss... they PROVE MY POINT:
> # If an atheist is "someone who does not believe in any god",
Who cares how you define yourselves..
I'm an agnostic, I don't believe Atheists can rationally Prove
that God does not exist, and Theists cannot PROVE that God does exist..
so the only rational position is to
admit that no one knows, and leave people to Freedom of Belief,
as guaranteed among all the Freedoms and Rights in the UN Charter,
every one of which was REMOVED by EVERY atheist regime in history!!!
The problem with atheists is that like OTHER FUNDIES, they try and
DICTATE WHAT OTHERS, in their view, MUST BELIEVE!
And As ARIS shows, 96% of non-believers tell atheists EXPLICITLY AND
CLEARLY, to bugger off, and STOP pretending they speak for us! B^D
Yet despite being the most despised and distrusted MINORITY,
even among NON-Believers, the arrogant, dogmatic atheist thugs still
think they can DICTATE and DEFINE what other people are...
and that is why they are distrusted and despised!!! B^]
> then ALL non-believers are atheists, like it or not.
CVlearly atheists are living in LaLa Land, ignoring the facts:
> And if religious fanatics come hunting for heretics
because the Militant Atheists provoke them, despite
hypocritically enjoying the protection of majority
religious societies, then we will simply point to the
Militant atheists and say.. there they are, we agnostics
rejected them and condemned their violence, brutality and
perversions, because we are moral and decent folk:
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
We rational agnostics, and other non-believers have distinguished
ourselves from such Militant Atheist thuggery and Dogmatism, and
condemned atheist Hate Speech and perversions:
Kill Jesus
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
Jesus light switch
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
Atheists are on their own. Any who supported Steve Knight and Trance
Stupor are likely to find themselves on the hot end of a lead enema!
We have seen how those Christians deal with heretics! B ^D
>they are not likely to discriminate;
No, all those of you who stood by, defended the atheist tyrannies, and
defended this sort of perverted sickness will be treated just like the
ringleaders... but we rational agnostics already have close working
relationships with theists becasue we share their interest in Love,
as recent threads show, and in making it real through ACTION to help
the world, while atheism does NOTHING but Carp, insult and brutalise...
> and all
> non-theists will burn at the stake,
Rubbish, you fuckwits are so OUT OF DATE.. the Christians and Muslims
are now working together, they have no problem with those of us who
respect and work with their traditions! B^]
You don't seem to have noticed my posts on the parliament of World
Religions.. they represent MOST OF THE PEOPLE ON THE PLANET, every
business and government will treat them with accord.. wheras you
ranting lunatics are mocked by all and sundry! B^D
> in reality, we take a sadistic pleasure in your agony
That was certainly the case in the USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pots
Genocide... I'm just surprised to hear you atheists admitting it
openly.
> - like the Taliban or Saudis,
You sure are, you leader is a Porn Queen, who reveals his violent
psycho-sexual sadism and hatred of women frequently:
In a discussion of MUTUAL LOVE and willing surrender,
the atheist thug reveals his misogyny and bestial force.
It's a common occurrence among the atheist perverts;
People talking about Cosmology were shocked to find Steve
touting his pornographic bent:
#From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: The Big Bang Theory
# Message-ID: <j9p7e550bbdcc9oij...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:46:34 -0700
#
# "Firnando" wrote:
#
# >The Big Bang Theory
#
# You wanna see the big bang?
#
# NSFW!
#
# http://www.ovguide.com/adult.html
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
If you Google the word "Mother" for Steve Knight, this is what you find
Steve has to say about his idea of family relations;
# took his rubber cock out of his mouth, shoved it
# up his mother's ass and ...
#
# - From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian,
# alt.agnosticism
# Subject: Re: Better place to debate theists?
# Message-ID: <8pj4e5pk7oi5ohvjp...@4ax.com>
# Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:06:52 -0700
His sick fantasies include violent murder and desecration
of the bodies of his enemies, men, women and children:
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
This Atheist LEADER, who they all pay homage to, even sick females
like Trance Stupor who share his perversions, uses imagery full
of the violent misogyny he expresses in the posts above:
# From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: Re: a.a.(atheist.angst.)
# OT(Ordinary and Tiresome) - not-a-Joke
# Message-ID: <i2cld5hbru4nugsib...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:37:21 -0700
#
# Your Dad wanted to watch me fuck your Mom in the
# ass and offered me a kilo of crack to do it.
# I told him she was so fucking fat and oily and smelled
# like two day old urine that I'd need at least five kilos
# and a gallon of Jack.
#
# The only thing keeping me interested is putting a bag
# over your sister's head and fucking her mouth.
# I love that cooing sound when she swallows my sperm.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
As he admits, (rather unecessarily ;-) atheists have serious mental
issues and they come to Usenet to share their personal problems:
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We're here to talk about our own personal issues as atheists
Jung was right:
"Among all my patients in the second half of life, that is, over
thirty-five, there has not been one whose problem in the last
resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life.
It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because
he had lost that which the living religions of every age
have given their followers, and none of them has really
been healed who did not regain his religious outlook."
-Carl G. Jung Modern Man in Search of a Soul
They cannot RECOGNISE Love, because they think it means
perverted SEX!!!!!!
Talking to an atheist about Love is like speaking to the BLIND
about the colours of a sunset.
The snip it all and make ANIMAL noises.. they are captives
of their Lower Self.
ilbe...@gmail.com
> Virgil wrote:
> > fasgnadh wrote:
> >> Don H wrote:
> >>> "fasgnadh" <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> >>>>>> has always played, in the evolving human civilisation, and the
> >>>>>> scientific inquiry which has deepened it's understanding.
>
> >>>>> Thats what makes them soo fucking stupid,
>
> >>>> See, that's why agnostics reject atheism! You are rude, ignorant,
> >>>> dogmatic and full of hatred and venom..
>
> >
>
> We are not discussing the times Whorelord Steve sucks your cock! 8^o
>
> >>>> no wonder the insightful
>
>
>
> >>>> books of the worlds great religions describe you as Vipers.
>
> >> And every time the Vipers slither and hiss... they PROVE MY POINT:
>
> >> > # If an atheist is "someone who does not believe in any god",
>
> >> Who cares how you define yourselves..
>
> >> I'm an agnostic, I don't believe Atheists can rationally Prove
> >> that God does not exist, and Theists cannot PROVE that God does exist..
> >> so the only rational position is to
> >> admit that no one knows, and leave people to Freedom of Belief,
> >> as guaranteed among all the Freedoms and Rights in the UN Charter,
> >> every one of which was REMOVED by EVERY atheist regime in history!!!
>
> > Fasgnadh attacks.
>
> All I do is expose atheist beliefs and leave it to the decent
> citizens to decide what they want to do about violent psychopaths
> who advocate murder, desecration of the corpses and Genocide,
> all of which are atheist traditions;
> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
> #
> # not in a girly way.
> #
> # Warlord Steve
> # BAAWA
>
> # Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> # Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv57fjcg60tufoa4...@4ax.com>
> # Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
> #
> # On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"# <blondes_gaulloi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> #
> # >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> #
> # It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
> # The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
> #
> # Warlord Steve
> # BAAWA
>
>
>
>
>
> >> DICTATE WHAT OTHERS, in their view, MUST BELIEVE!
>
> >> And As ARIS shows, 96% of non-believers tell atheists EXPLICITLY AND
> >> CLEARLY, to bugger off, and STOP pretending they speak for us! B^D
>
> >> Yet despite being the most despised and distrusted MINORITY,
> >> even among NON-Believers, the arrogant, dogmatic atheist thugs still
> >> think they can DICTATE and DEFINE what other people are...
> >> and that is why they are distrusted and despised!!! B^]
>
> >> > then ALL non-believers are atheists, like it or not.
>
>
> >>>> Even the other non believers, over 95% of them, REJECT ATHEISM;
>
> >>>> # Subject: Re: US religious now at 85% - It's GOD in a LANDSLIDE!!!
> >>>> # -Atheists wallow at 2.3% worldwide, 0.7% in the USA! -a pitiful
> >>>> # fraction of the minority of non-believers! B^D
> >>>> #
> >>>> # Newsgroups:
> >>>> # alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.religion,aus.politics,
> >>>> # alt.politics.republicans, alt.politics.democrats,uk.politics.misc
> >> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
> >> # Subject: Re: The Big Bang Theory
> >> # Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:46:34 -0700
> >> #
> >> # "Firnando" wrote:
> >> #
> >> # >The Big Bang Theory
> >> #
> >> # You wanna see the big bang?
> >> #
> >> # NSFW!
> >> #
> >> # http://www.ovguide.com/adult.html
> >> #
> >> # Warlord Steve
> >> # BAAWA
>
> >> If you Google the word "Mother" for Steve Knight, this is what you find
> >> Steve has to say about his idea of family relations;
>
> >> # took his rubber cock out of his mouth, shoved it
> >> # up his mother's ass and ...
> >> #
> >> # - From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> >> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian,
> >> # alt.agnosticism
> >> # Subject: Re: Better place to debate theists?
> >> # Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:06:52 -0700
>
> >> His sick fantasies include violent murder and desecration
> >> of the bodies of his enemies, men, women and children:
>
> >> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
> >> #
> >> # We kill theists and shit down their throats
> >> #
> >> # Warlord Steve
> >> # BAAWA
>
> >> This Atheist LEADER, who they all pay homage to, even sick females
> >> like Trance Stupor who share his perversions, uses imagery full
> >> of the violent misogyny he expresses in the posts above:
>
> >> # From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> >> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
> >> # Subject: Re: a.a.(atheist.angst.)
> >> # OT(Ordinary and Tiresome) - not-a-Joke
> >> # Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:37:21 -0700
> >> #
> >> # Your Dad wanted to watch me fuck your Mom in the
> >> # ass and offered me a kilo of crack to do it.
> >> # I told him she was so fucking fat and oily and smelled
> >> # like two day old urine that I'd need at least five kilos
> >> # and a gallon of Jack.
> >> #
> >> # The only thing keeping me interested is putting a bag
> >> # over your sister's head and fucking her mouth.
> >> # I love that cooing sound when she swallows my sperm.
> >> #
> >> # Warlord Steve
> >> # BAAWA
>
> >> As he admits, (rather unecessarily ;-) atheists have serious mental
> >> issues and they come to Usenet to share their personal problems:
>
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here is the reason the percentage of proclaimed 'atheists' is so
incredibly low ; no one really has the kind of faith required to
think the following was produced by anything BUT a skillful,
incredible, almighty, and loving personal Designer/Creator. Like
anything else...the design is in the details and if it sounds like
design, looks like design, is scientifically-confirmed to be
design...then by-gum it IS design ! (something raw materials and
natural occurences could never ever accomplish ) . See the following
and be in awe of our wonderful personal Creator of the Cosmos who
fashioned it all for us (if your WILL shall allow !) . Its no longer
about lack of evidence for God, its about the individuals will to
overcome not wanting God to exist :
The Cosmological Constant is to within 120 decimal places and the
Expansion Rate of the Universe according to Prof. Stephen Hawkins is
1/1,000,000 th otherwise we arent here. Considering these two , plus
the following that has been scientifically verified, it is completely
absurd to think this Universe/Solar System/Earth wasnt pre-planned ,
incredibly well designed , and Created by a Mind at work ....and one
is so powerful that it boggles the Mind. Your ultimate purpose to
living is to get to know this obvious personal Creator , and the ball
is in your court ; the wise among us make the effort putting aside
pride :
The table below lists the parameters required for a planet to be able
to sustain life. Individually, the probabilities of occurrence of each
parameter are not particularly impressive. The fact that all of these
parameters are found on the Earth is extremely impressive, indicating
an extreme deviation from random chance. The probability values below
are ones obtained from that observed in the universe as a whole.
Uniqueness of the Galaxy-Sun-Earth-Moon System for Life Support
galaxy size (9) (p = 0.1)
if too large: infusion of gas and stars would disturb sun's orbit and
ignite deadly galactic eruptions
if too small: infusion of gas would be insufficient to sustain star
formation long enough for life to form
galaxy type (7) (p = 0.1)
if too elliptical: star formation would cease before sufficient heavy
elements formed for life chemistry
if too irregular: radiation exposure would be too severe (at times)
and life-essential heavy elements would not form
galaxy location (9) (p = 0.1)
if too close to dense galaxy cluster: galaxy would be gravitationally
unstable, hence unsuitable for life
if too close to large galaxy(ies): same result
supernovae eruptions (8) (p = 0.01)
if too close: radiation would exterminate life
if too far: too little "ash" would be available for rocky planets to
form
if too infrequent: same result
if too frequent: radiation would exterminate life
if too soon: too little "ash" would be available for rocky planets to
form
if too late: radiation would exterminate life
white dwarf binaries (8) (p = 0.01)
if too few: insufficient fluorine would exist for life chemistry
if too many: orbits of life-supportable planets would be disrupted;
life would be exterminated
if too soon: insufficient fluorine would exist for life chemistry
if too late: fluorine would arrive too late for life chemistry
proximity of solar nebula to a supernova eruption (9)
if farther: insufficient heavy elements would be attracted for life
chemistry
if closer: nebula would be blown apart
timing of solar nebula formation relative to supernova eruption (9)
if earlier: nebula would be blown apart
if later: nebula would not attract enough heavy elements for life
chemistry
parent star distance from center of galaxy (9) (p = 0.2)
if greater: insufficient heavy elements would be available for rocky
planet formation
if lesser: radiation would be too intense for life; stellar density
would disturb planetary orbits, making life impossible
parent star distance from closest spiral arm (9) (p = 0.1)
if too small: radiation from other stars would be too intense and the
stellar density would disturb orbits of life-supportable planets
if too great: quantity of heavy elements would be insufficient for
formation of life-supportable planets
z-axis range of star's orbit (9) (p = 0.1)
if too wide: exposure to harmful radiation from galactic core would be
too great
number of stars in the planetary system (10) (p = 0.2)
if more than one: tidal interactions would make the orbits of
life-supportable planets too unstable for life
if fewer than one: no heat source would be available for life
chemistry
parent star birth date (9) (p = 0.2)
if more recent: star burning would still be unstable; stellar system
would contain too many heavy elements for life chemistry
if less recent: stellar system would contain insufficient heavy
elements for life chemistry
parent star age (9) (p = 0.4)
if older: star's luminosity would be too erratic for life support
if younger: same result
parent star mass (10) (p = 0.001)
if greater: star's luminosity would be too erratic and star would burn
up too quickly to support life
if lesser: life support zone would be too narrow; rotation period of
life-supportable planet would be too long; UV radiation would be
insufficient for photosynthesis
parent star metallicity (9) (p = 0.05)
if too little: insufficient heavy elements for life chemistry would
exist
if too great: radioactivity would be too intense for life; heavy
element concentrations would be poisonous to life
parent star color (9) (p = 0.4)
if redder: photosynthetic response would be insufficient to sustain
life
if bluer: same result
H3+ production (23) (p = 0.1)
if too little: simple molecules essential to planet formation and life
chemistry would never form
if too great: planets would form at the wrong time and place for life
parent star luminosity (11) (p = 0.0001)
if increases too soon: runaway green house effect would develop
if increases too late: runaway glaciation would develop
surface gravity (governs escape velocity) (12) (p = 0.001)
if stronger: planet's atmosphere would retain too much ammonia and
methane for life
if weaker: planet's atmosphere would lose too much water for life
distance from parent star (13) (p = 0.001)
if greater: planet would be too cool for a stable water cycle
if lesser: planet would be too warm for a stable water cycle
inclination of orbit (22) (p = 0.5)
if too great: temperature range on the planet's surface would be too
extreme for life
orbital eccentricity (9) (p = 0.3)
if too great: seasonal temperature range would be too extreme for life
axial tilt (9) (p = 0.3)
if greater: surface temperature differences would be too great to
sustain diverse life-forms
if lesser: same result
rate of change of axial tilt (9) (p = 0.01)
if greater: climatic and temperature changes would be too extreme for
life
rotation period (11) (p = 0.1)
if longer: diurnal temperature differences would be too great for life
if shorter: atmospheric wind velocities would be too great for life
rate of change in rotation period (14) (p = 0.05)
if more rapid: change in day-to-night temperature variation would be
too extreme for sustained life
if less rapid: change in day-to-night temperature variation would be
too slow for the development of advanced life
planet's age (9) (p = 0.1)
if too young: planet would rotate too rapidly for life
if too old: planet would rotate too slowly for life
magnetic field (20) (p = 0.01)
if stronger: electromagnetic storms would be too severe
if weaker: planetary surface and ozone layer would be inadequately
protected from hard solar and stellar radiation
thickness of crust (15) (p = 0.01)
if greater: crust would rob atmosphere of oxygen needed for life
if lesser: volcanic and tectonic activity would be destructive to life
albedo (ratio of reflected light to total amount falling on surface)
(9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: runaway glaciation would develop
if less: runaway greenhouse effect would develop
asteroid and comet collision rates (9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: ecosystem balances would be destroyed
if less: crust would contain too little of certain life-essential
elements
mass of body colliding with primordial earth (9) (0 = 0.002)
if greater: Earth's orbit and form would be too greatly disturbed for
life
if lesser: Earth's atmosphere would be too thick for life; moon would
be too small to fulfill its life-sustaining role
timing of above collision (9) (p = 0.05)
if earlier: Earth's atmosphere would be too thick for life; moon would
be too small to fulfill its life-sustaining role
if later: Earth's atmosphere would be too thin for life; sun would be
too luminous for subsequent life
oxygen to nitrogen ratio in atmosphere (25) (p = 0.1)
if greater: advanced life functions would proceed too rapidly
if lesser: advanced life functions would proceed too slowly
carbon dioxide level in atmosphere (21) (p = 0.01)
if greater: runaway greenhouse effect would develop
if less: plants would be unable to maintain efficient photosynthesis
water vapor quantity in atmosphere (9) (p = 0.01)
if greater: runaway greenhouse effect would develop
if less: rainfall would be too meager for advanced land life
atmospheric electric discharge rate (9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: fires would be too frequent and widespread for life
if less: too little nitrogen would be fixed in the atmosphere
ozone quantity in atmosphere (9) (p = 0.01)
if greater: surface temperatures would be too low for life;
insufficient UV radiation for life
if less: surface temperatures would be too high for life; UV radiation
would be too intense for life
oxygen quantity in atmosphere (9) (p = 0.01)
if greater: plants and hydrocarbons would burn up too easily,
destabilizing Earth's ecosystem
if less: advanced animals would have too little to breathe
seismic activity (16) (p = 0.1)
if greater: life would be destroyed; ecosystem would be damaged
if less: nutrients on ocean floors from river runoff would not be
recycled to continents through tectonics; not enough carbon dioxide
would be released from carbonate buildup
volcanic activity (26)
if lower: insufficient amounts of carbon dioxide and water vapor would
be returned to the atmosphere; soil mineralization would be
insufficient for life advanced life support
if higher: advanced life would be destroyed; ecosystem would be
damaged
rate of decline in tectonic activity (26) (p = 0.1)
if slower: crust conditions would be too unstable for advanced life
if faster: crust nutrients would be inadequate for sustained land life
rate of decline in volcanic activity (9) (p = 0.1)
if slower: crust and surface conditions would be unsuitable for
sustained land life
if faster: crust and surface nutrients would be inadequate for
sustained land life
oceans-to-continents ratio (11) (p = 0.2)
if greater: diversity and complexity of life-forms would be limited
if smaller: same result
rate of change in oceans-to-continents ratio (9) (p = 0.1)
if smaller: land area would be insufficient for advanced life
if greater: change would be too radical for advanced life to survive
distribution of continents (10) (p = 0.3)
if too much in the Southern Hemisphere: sea-salt aerosols would be
insufficient to stabilize surface temperature and water cycle;
increased seasonal differences would limit the available habitats for
advanced land life
frequency and extent of ice ages (9) (p = 0.1)
if lesser: Earth's surface would lack fertile valleys essential for
advanced life; mineral concentrations would be insufficient for
advanced life.
if greater: Earth would experience runaway freezing
soil mineralization (9) (p = 0.1)
if nutrient poorer: diversity and complexity of lifeforms would be
limited
if nutrient richer: same result
gravitational interaction with a moon (17) (p = 0.1)
if greater: tidal effects on the oceans, atmosphere, and rotational
period would be too severe for life
if lesser: orbital obliquity changes would cause climatic
instabilities; movement of nutrients and life from the oceans to the
continents and vice versa would be insufficient for life; magnetic
field would be too weak to protect life from dangerous radiation
Jupiter distance (18) (p = 0.1)
if greater: Jupiter would be unable to protect Earth from frequent
asteroid and comet collisions
if lesser: Jupiter’s gravity would destabilize Earth's orbit
Jupiter mass (19) (p = 0.1)
if greater: Jupiter’s gravity would destabilize Earth's orbit 9
if lesser: Jupiter would be unable to protect Earth from asteroid and
comet collisions
drift in (major) planet distances (9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: Earth's orbit would be destabilized
if less: asteroid and comet collisions would be too frequent for life
major planet orbital eccentricities (18) (p = 0.05)
if greater: Earth's orbit would be pulled out of life support zone
major planet orbital instabilities (9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: Earth's orbit would be pulled out of life support zone
atmospheric pressure (9) (p = 0.1)
if smaller: liquid water would evaporate too easily and condense too
infrequently to support life
if greater: inadequate liquid water evaporation to support life;
insufficient sunlight would reach Earth's surface; insufficient UV
radiation would reach Earth's surface
atmospheric transparency (9) (p = 0.01)
if greater: too broad a range of solar radiation wavelengths would
reach Earth's surface for life support
if lesser: too narrow a range of solar radiation wavelengths would
reach Earth's surface for life support
chlorine quantity in atmosphere (9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: erosion rate and river, lake, and soil acidity would be
too high for most life forms; metabolic rates would be too high for
most life forms
if lesser: erosion rate and river, lake, and soil acidity would be too
low for most life forms; metabolic rates would be too low for most
life forms
iron quantity in oceans and soils (9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: iron poisoning would destroy advanced life
if lesser: food to support advanced life would be insufficient
if very small: no life would be possible
tropospheric ozone quantity (9) (p = 0.01)
if greater: advanced animals would experience respiratory failure;
crop yields would be inadequate for advanced life; ozone-sensitive
species would be unable to survive
if smaller: biochemical smog would hinder or destroy most life
stratospheric ozone quantity (9) (p = 0.01)
if greater: not enough LTV radiation would reach Earth's surface to
produce food and life-essential vitamins
if lesser: too much LTV radiation would reach Earth's surface, causing
skin cancers and reducing plant growth
mesospheric ozone quantity (9) (p = 0.01)
if greater: circulation and chemistry of mesospheric gases would
disturb relative abundance of life-essential gases in lower atmosphere
if lesser: same result
frequency and extent of forest and grass fires (24) (p = 0.01)
if greater: advanced life would be impossible
if lesser: accumulation of growth inhibitors, combined with
insufficient nitrification, would make soil unsuitable for food
production
quantity of soil sulfur (9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: plants would be destroyed by sulfur toxins, soil acidity,
and disturbance of the nitrogen cycle
if lesser: plants would die from An organic compound made of amino
acids arranged in a linear chain, joined together by peptide bonds
between the carboxyl and amino groups of the adjacent amino acid
residues.protein deficiency
biomass to comet-infall ratio (9) (p = 0.01)
if greater: greenhouse gases would decline, triggering runaway
freezing
if lesser: greenhouse gases would accumulate, triggering runaway
greenhouse effect
quantity of sulfur in planet's core (9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: solid inner core would never form, disrupting magnetic
field
if smaller: solid inner core formation would begin too soon, causing
it to grow too rapidly and extensively, disrupting magnetic field
quantity of sea-salt aerosols (9) (p = 0.1)
if greater: too much and too rapid cloud formation over the oceans
would disrupt the climate and atmospheric temperature balances
if smaller: insufficient cloud formation; hence, inadequate water
cycle; disrupts atmospheric temperature balances and hence the climate
dependency factors (estimate 100,000,000,000)
longevity requirements (estimate .00001)
Total Probability = 1:1099
Click here to see these parameters in table format.
Updated List of parameters
Taken from Big Bang Refined by Fire by Dr. Hugh Ross, 1998. Reasons To
Believe, Pasadena, CA.
By putting together probabilities for each of these design features
occurring by chance, we can calculate the probability of the existence
of a planet like Earth. This probability is 1 chance in 1099. Since
there are estimated to be a maximum of 1023 planets in the universe
(10 planets/star, see note below), by chance there shouldn't be any
planets capable of supporting life in the universe (only one chance in
1076). Design or random chance?
Don't we ALL believe in miracles?
Note: This is most likely a huge over estimate. In a recent survey of
globular cluster 47 Tucanae, scientists found zero extrasolar planets
out of 37,000 stars searched (Astronomers Ponder Lack of Planets in
Globular Cluster from the Hubble Space Telescope).
Related Resources
Moons Like Earth's Moon are Rare in the Universe
God of the Gaps - Do All Christian Apologetics Fall Into This Kind of
Argument?
Rare Earth: Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe by Peter D.
Ward and Donald Brownlee
A recent (2000) secular book that recognizes the improbable design of
the earth. Paleontologist Peter D. Ward and astrobiologist Donald
Brownlee examine the unusual characteristics of our galaxy, solar
system, star, and Earth and conclude that ET may have no home to go
to. Surprisingly, the authors conclude that the amazing "coincidences"
are the result of good luck and chance.
The Creator and the Cosmos by Dr. Hugh Ross
A classic book for modern Christian apologetics and science, recently
updated (June, 2001) with fully one third of the book updated. Dr.
Ross presents the latest scientific evidence for intelligent design of
our world and an easy to understand introduction to modern cosmology.
This is a great book to give agnostics, who have an interest in
cosmology and astronomy.
References
Peterson, Ivars. 1993. Newton's Clock: Chaos in the Solar System, W.H.
Freeman and Co.
Taylor, G. Jeffrey. July, 1994. "The scientific legacy of Apollo"
Scientific American 271 (1): 40-47.
Giant Impact Theory For Moon Formation Boosted (from SpaceDaily.com)
Rudnick, R. 1995. Making continental crust. Nature 378:571-578.
Maher, K.A. and D.J. Stevenson. 1988. Impact frustrations of the
origin of life. Nature 331: 612-614.
Rasio, F.A. and E.B. Ford. 1996. Dynamical instabilities and the
formation of extrasolar planetary systems. Science 274: 954-956.
Dicke, R.H. 1961. Dirac's cosmology and Mach's principle. Nature 192:
440.
Cowen, R. 1992. Were spiral galaxies once more common? Science News
142: 390.
Dressler, et al. 1994. New images of the distant rich cluster, CL
0939+4713 with WFPC2. Astrophysical Journal Letters 435: L23-L26.
Davies, R.E. and R. H. Koch. 1991. All the observed universe has
contributed to life. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society
of London, series B 334: 391-403.
Ross, H. 1995. The Creator and the Cosmos. NavPress, Colorado Springs,
CO, chapters 14 and 15
Ross, H. 1998. Big Bang Refined by Fire. Reasons To Believe, Pasadena,
CA.
Schlovskii, I.S. and C. Sagan. 1966. Intelligent life in the universe.
Holden-Day, San Francisco, CA, pp. 343-350.
Kuhn, W.R., J.C.G. Walker, and H.G. Marshall. 1989. The effect on the
Earth's surface temperature from variations in rotation rate,
continent formation, solar luminosity, and carbon dioxide. Journal of
Geophysical Research 94: 11, 136.
Abell, G. 1964. Exploration of the Universe. Holt, Rinehart, and
Winston, New York, pp. 244-247.
Brandt, J.C. and P.W. Hodge. 1964. Solar System Astrophysics.
McGraw-Hill, New York, pp. 244-247.
Hart, M.H. 1979. Habitable zones about main sequence stars. Icarus 37:
351-357.
Jenkins, G.S., H.G. Marshall, and W.R. Kuhn. 1993. Precambrian
climate: the effects of land area and Earth's rotation rate. Journal
of Geophysical Research, Series D 98: 8785-8791.
Zahnle, K.J. and J.C.G. Walker. 1987. A constant daylength during the
precambrian era? Precambrian Research 37: 95-105.
Monastersky, R. 1993. Speedy spin kept early Earth from freezing.
Science News 143: 373.
Campbell, I.H. and S.R. Taylor. 1983. No water, no granite - no
oceans, no continents. Geophysical Research Letters. 10: 1061-1064.
Rudnick, R. 1995. Making continental crust. Nature 378:571-578.
Ward. W.R. 1982. Comments on the long-term stability of the Earth's
obliquity. Icarus 50: 444-448.
Murray, C.D. 1993. Seasoned travelers. Nature 361: 586-587.
Laskar, J. and P. Robutel. 1993. The chaotic obliquity of the planets.
Nature 361: 608-612.
Laskar, J., F. Joutel, and P. Robutel. 1993. Stabilization of the
Earth's obliquity by the Moon. Nature 361: 615-617.
The editors. July 1993. Our friend Jove. Discover, p. 15.
George Wetherill, "How Special Is Jupiter?" Nature 373 (1995), p. 470.
B. Zuckerman, T. Forveille, and J. H. Kastner, "Inhibition of
Giant-Planet Formation by Rapid Gas Depletion Around Young Stars,"
Nature373 (1995), p. 494-496.
Ray Jayawardhana, "No Alien Jupiters," Science 265 (1994), P. 1527.
Laskar, J. 1994. Large-scale chaos in the Solar System. Astronomy and
Astrophysics 287: 112.
Rasio, F.A. and E.B.Ford. 1996. Dynamical instabilities and the
formation of extrasolar planetary systems. Science 274: 954-956.
Elliott H. Lieb, Michael Loss, and Jan Philip Solovej, "Stability of
Matter in Magnetic Fields," Physical Review Letters, 75 (1995), pp.
985-989.
Rob Rye, Phillip H. Kuo, and Heinrich D. Holland, "Atmospheric Carbon
Dioxide Concentrations Before 2.2 Billion Years Ago," Nature 378
(1995), pp. 603-605.
Robert A. Muller and Gordon J. MacDonald, "Glacial Cycles and orbital
inclination," Nature, 377 (1995), pp. 107-108.
T. R. Gabella and T. Oka, "Detection of H3+ in interstellar Space,"
Nature, 384 (1996), pp. 334-335.
Peter D. Moore, "Fire Damage Soils Our Forest," Nature 384 (1996), pp.
312-313.
Christine Mlot, "Tallying Nitrogen's Increasing Impact," Science News,
151 (1997), p. 100.
Paul G. , "Evolution of the Nitrogen Cycle and its Influence on the
Biological Sequestration of C02 in the Ocean," Nature, 387 (1997), pp.
272-274.
Peter Olson, "Probing Earth's Dynamo," Nature, 389 (1997), p. 337.
Weiji Kuang and Jeremy Bloxham, "An Earth-Like Numerical Dynamo
Model," Nature, 389 (1997), pp. 371-374.
Xiaodong Song and Paul G. Richards, "Seismological Evidence for
Differential Rotation of the Earth's Inner Core," Nature, 382 (1997),
pp. 221-224.
Wei-jia Su, Adam M. Dziewonski, and Raymond Jeanloz, "Planet Within a
Planet: Rotation of the Inner Core of the Earth," Science, 274 (1996),
pp. 1883-1887
huge
<snip other plagiarized nonsense>
>The table below lists the parameters required for a planet to be able
>to sustain life. Individually, the probabilities of occurrence of each
>parameter are not particularly impressive. The fact that all of these
>parameters are found on the Earth is extremely impressive, indicating
>an extreme deviation from random chance. The probability values below
>are ones obtained from that observed in the universe as a whole.
...appears at:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designss.html#c8woP0HSMIZr
...toward the bottom at "Conclusions."
A typical unattributed cut-and-paste [plagiarized] by
IBeanIdiot.
--
huge: Not on my time you don't.
bobsyo...@yahoo.com
tiny 4% of Non-Believers" - nothing of any consequence can follow.
fasgnadh
It is the traditional Cult of Personality which every atheist regime
indulges in.
As the alpha male in alt.atheism it has been easy to establish
intellectual dominance, a battle of wits with atheists is
like fighting an unarmed opponent! B^]
All I had to do was kick their ex-Warlord in the nuts and all the
submissive chimps cowed in abject awe! B^D
>> For atheists who see themselves as computers with rat instincts,, you
> # If "fasgnadh" in his wildest dreams imagines HE would ever be any
> Atheist's God Figure, he is completely deluded.
And yet, once again, the atheist response is to accept without argument
every fact and rational argument I have made.. and to talk about ME! B^D
My point is PROVEN! B^]
> Most of us, presumably, continue to attack "fasgnadh"'s myths
No, you don't, as this thread show, you never lay a glove on the
well argued, well supported with facts, case which I present..
you all RANT endlessly about ME! The most common atheist
post is to MISREPRESENT and FORGE my post, and then attack the strawman
atheist creation.. because apparently MY argument is indisputable.
Look at Don's post as an example.. it starts "If 'fasgnadh in his
wildest dreams imagines...." B^D It is pure, and completely
innaccurate, SPECULATION by Don on what he imagines I MIGHT imagine..
EVERYTHING in Don's post after the "If" is worthless, false OPINION! B^D
NO EVIDENCE for any of it! My arguments are like Holy Water splashed
on Vampires to irrational atheists who repeatedly demonstrate their
obsessional Cult Of Personality... not because they like me, but
because they FEAR me. Some have completely abandoned alt.atheism,
others just run away from every argument! B^D
You cannot find more tenuous nonsense ANYWHERE in the universe, not even
amongst the tenets of Scientology or the beliefs of atheists themselves;
# "it makes utterly no difference which goddesses or gods
# you believe in, as long as you have some...
# Me, I'd suggest Bastet." - Cary Kittrell
#
# (has he misspelled 'Kitten'? ;-)
# From: Trance Gemini <trance...@gmail.com>
# Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 17:16:46 -0700 (PDT)
# Message-ID:
<b966d162-63bb-4f9f...@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
#
# We may worship cats but we love all kinds of animals.
take it to alt.sex.bestiality, please!
> because the Great Man continues to promulgate them.
I re-iterate my winning arguments because they are so obviously
true that no atheists can refute them.
And atheists only response in the long term is to stick their heads
up their arses and pretend their ridiculous, pointless dogma is not
publicly EVISCERATED on a regular basis.
But I post for the wider audience. B^]
I have never expected to convince or convert atheists by reason
because they are immune to it.. the series of atheist regimes
provide abundant historical PROOF of that!
I use atheists, especially the clearly dishonest forgery of
Virgil Syd and the rest, and the violent psychopathic thuggery
of Warlord Fluffy, Trance Stupor and their barbarians, as teaching
tools for the non-atheist audience. They now have a very clear
idea of the hate-filled nastiness of the athei-Sith cult! B^]
> Not that our efforts are ever
> likely to penetrate
Because they are froth and bubble.. signifying NOTHING!
> As for the demise of Communism, the news of its death (as Mark Twain
> said of his own) may be rather exaggerated; as Cuba hangs on, as does North
> Korea,
Great advertisments for atheism, you raving nutjob! B^D
The others have abandoned state atheism, and since then they have prospered;
> Vietnam, Laos, and (nominally) China.
Clearly you haven't been to any of those places and observed their
total capitulation to the MARKET!
China reformed it's constitution, CEASED the total persecution of
religion, and has since prospered as theism has exploded in that
country's desire to flee the misery and despair of atheist repression;
Why are atheists so pig-ignorant of their own history; ??? B^]
"With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
of religion."
http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
"At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
"For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
to a large extent,"
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
"religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm
"Religious believers thrice the estimate
By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
"A survey has found that the number of religious believers
is three times bigger than the official estimate.
The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
Incredible! in just a few short years the new converts from
atheism In JUST ONE COUNTRY, far outnumber the slow increase
in tiny atheist numbers in the rest of the WORLD! B^D
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA
> Socialism (where not seen as synonymous with Communism) is alive and
> well in South America,
YOu poor deluded fuckwit.. none of the socialist countries have
imposed anti-religious atheism or been atheist states!
Thanks for pointing out how much better EVERY country with religious
freedom outperforms every atheist state!!!
ALL ATHEIST STATES HAVE BEEN HOPELESS TOTALITARIAN TYRANNIES!
End of story!
Suck it up, LOSERS! B^]
Even Don is forced to admit that the recovery of the Russian economy
has occurred since the abandonment of repressive state atheism and
the subsequent return to religion;
> As to resurgence of the Russian Orthodox Church,
Why has the improvement in the Russian economy, social and political
life accompanied it! B^D
Atheists NEVER get the point! B^p
> this delusion will slowly be vaporised,
YOUR delusion is already vapourised!
Your repitition of the promise by Lenin and his cronies that
things would improve when the religious were eliminated has been
totally DEMOLISHED by history.
Only you blind fools fail to see it;
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
> as the hard facts of a secular, sceptical, and
> scientific, Age, dawn.
They already have.. IN MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETIES THAT CREATED THOSE
FABULOUS FEATURES.. the societies in which even you atheist hypocrites
CHOOSE to live in, rather than the paradise of atheist North Korea!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA
> As for "fasgnadh"
Give up your obsession with the Cult of Personality, it didn't work
for you credulous cretins with Lenin, Mao, Stalin, and it isn't working
with Dawkins Hitchins, Whorelord Steve, and the other ranting militant
atheists! B^]
Don H
# "fasgnadh" keeps coming back to two themes:
(1) Communism is Evil, and Commos are Atheist, thus all Atheists are
Evil - which ignores non-Communist Atheists; and,
(2) all Scientists of history were Theists, and our Civilization is due to
them - which ignores the risk of offending Church dogma, by Galileo, Darwin,
etc.
The trouble is : in a sceptical, secular, and scientific Age, "God" is
conspicuous by his absence.
Nowadays, we generally go by empirical evidence, and this is totally
lacking for any deity.
Whatever happened in the past - re both scientists and communists - it
is today's world we live in, and atheism is the default position. If you
have a god, trot him out; otherwise, I'm afraid you're an atheist, like it
or not.
Only the Taliban and other brainwashed zombies believe in a god - and he
is a fictional tribal leader for them to rally around (as he always was).
God is not called Father, Lord (Leader), King, and Creator, for nothing.
This reflects his historical evolution in the human mind.
God did not create Man in his image - we created gods, goddesses, God,
in our image.
When the human race dies out, our anthropomorphic deities will die with
us.
"fasgnadh" can rave all he wants to; he can't prove God exists. But
then he's an Agnostic, eh? Which is an Atheist in disguise, or, at least, a
Fellow Traveller.
fasgnadh
> When you start of with a pathetic, ignorant claim like: "Why atheists are a
> tiny 4% of Non-Believers" - nothing of any consequence can follow.
Because you cannot dispute the Truth, read the ARIS data and weep:
# Subject: Re: US religious now at 85% - It's GOD in a LANDSLIDE!!!
# -Atheists wallow at 2.3% worldwide, 0.7% in the USA! -a pitiful
# fraction of the minority of non-believers! B^D
#
# From: fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au>
# Newsgroups:
# alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.religion,aus.politics,
# alt.politics.republicans, alt.politics.democrats,uk.politics.misc
# Message-ID: <8QNtl.26734$cu.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:07:32 GMT
#
# American Religious Identification Survey, Summary Report March 2009:
#
# "Self-identification of U.S. Adult Population by Religious Tradition
#
# 2001 2008
#
# Non- religious 29,481,000 (14.1%) 34,169,000 (15%)
#
# Religious 167,254,000 (80%) 182,198,000 (80%)
#
# Agnostics 991,000 (0.5%) 1,985,000 (0.9%)
#
# Atheists 902,000 (0.4%) 1,621,000 (0.7%)
#
#
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA!
#
#
# 0.7% of Americans!! B^D 2.3% worldwide!!! B^D
#
# 'NON-RELIGIOUS' DOES NOT = ATHEIST, YOU ATHEIST CRETINS!
1,621,000 atheists, a pitiful 0.7%^ of the Population and
a pathetic 4% of the 'Non-Religious' (34,169,000)
Clearly most non-religious refuse to be associated with atheists.
ARIS is an anonymous survey, the most widely quoted and respected
scientific survey of religious affiliation, and 96% of those who don't
care, don't have an opinion either way, or simply can't be bothered
thinking about the matter.. EXPLICITLY REJECT ATHEISM!!!!
Suck it up, you rejected atheist losers!
#
#
# EVEN THE AGNOSTICS BEAT YOU!!! **AND** they grew FASTER!!!! B^D
No wonder atheists are the most despised and distrusted
minority in the USA, they snip all the evidence, post lies
and then run away from the facts! pffffft!
<Unsnip>
>> if lesser: Jupiter�s gravity would destabilize Earth's orbit
>> Jupiter mass (19) (p = 0.1)
>> if greater: Jupiter�s gravity would destabilize Earth's orbit 9
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> # Subject: Re: US religious now at 85% - It's GOD in a LANDSLIDE!!!
Several different gods perhaps in several mutually antagonist minor
landslides, perhaps, but the non-theists and don't cares are growing
fast in all nations with STRONGLY SECULAR DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENTS able to
protect their citizens from the evils of religion intrusion.