Common Sense vs Unnecessary Interference
S e a n
lives, to simply have let the status quo rest and left Suddam's Iraq to
annex the Principality of Kuwait in 1991?
Had the west and the USA in particular had some vision, a Suddam annexation
of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and stopping all it's Wahhabi/Taliban funding
of terrorism around the world as well, would have been a great allie to have
before and in Sept. 2001 and since.
What a great allie Suddam would be to an aggressive nuclear arms seeking
Iran today?
Mmmmm, it's a funny world ain't it.
Some folks just can't help but stick their noses into other people's
rational business affairs which later turns around to bite them on their own
ass by having to pay $4.00 gallon for gasoline, and dif themselves out of a
Trillion Dollar plus Deficit.
LOL C'est la vie!
--
zinnic
of Chamberlain's naivette! Peace in our time!
Buchanan has written a book criticizing Britain's declaration of war
when Germany invaded Poland. He claims that Hitler only wanted the
Danzig corridor and that Britain's belligerence led to an
unneccessary war that resulted in the killing of millions of
combatents in a world war and the extermination of millions of
'vermin' Jews and "troglodyte' eastern Europeans.
It is so easy to rewrite history from the 'what if' point of view.
Anyone can do it! If cows could fly our cars would be a real
mess :-).
Zinnic
Immortalist
When papa Bush was joined by the majority of the united nations to
fight for Kuwait, that was different than G W Bush going it alone
against the will of most nations. If we would have continued Saddam
would probably still be out of power by now.
Bush's unilateralism aggravates world's problems
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_10_39/ai_96738447
zinnic
Probably or possibly or not?
Mistakes cannot be eliminated by 'retakes'. Do overs are allowed in
social golf, not in history.
If I had not met a certain stranger in Cardiff, my life would have
been completly different. If I had not hurt my ankle, I would not have
met that stranger, if I had not....etc... etc.
Things are what they are, and must be attended to according to their
future outcome, not to what they might or should have been.
Acceptance of the situation and appropriate action is called for.
Recrimination d solves nothing.
zinnic
>
> - Show quoted text -
I used 'vermin' and 'troglodyte' to illustrate the contempt that
Buchanan's 'reasonable' Hitler held for 'inferior' non-Aryans.
Eat the rich
Chamberlain. Ha ha ha. You Republicans here Bush mention that name
and without understanding anything about Chamberlain, you use it
whenever you think it applies.
tg
Interesting analysis Sean. But there is the problem that the US
doesn't do well at these versions of the Great Game; it clings to a
simplistic, militaristic, jingoistic, neocolonial model where the
puppet ruler is tightly controlled and dependent. The senior Bush was
not that popular with his own party, remember, because he *was* more
of a subtle internationalist. That's why he was able to put together
the coalition. but the war itself had more to do with domestic
politics.
-tg
Patriot Games
wrote:
>How simple would it have been, and how cheaper it would have been in $ and
>lives, to simply have let the status quo rest and left Suddam's Iraq to
>annex the Principality of Kuwait in 1991?
It would have been cheaper but it would have been no fun.
>Had the west and the USA in particular had some vision, a Suddam annexation
>of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and stopping all it's Wahhabi/Taliban funding
>of terrorism around the world as well, would have been a great allie to have
>before and in Sept. 2001 and since.
>What a great allie Suddam would be to an aggressive nuclear arms seeking
>Iran today?
>Mmmmm, it's a funny world ain't it.
Yep, and I thought Saddam swnging from that hangman's noose shitting
in his ants was especially hilarious!
zinnic
>
Why do you think I am a Republican who does'nt understand anything
about Neville Chamberlain? I ask because I am interested in what
makes you 'kneejerks' kick!
S e a n
"zinnic" <zeen...@gate.net> wrote in message
news:e5ec05db-10e1-4089...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
------------------------
Well I'm having an each way bet Zinnic.
Suddam was no saint, and I'm not recommending him as a template for good
governance. However, has anyone noticed any difficulty in creating some law
and order in Iraq without the use of extreme force, since he left office?
More than a little ironic imho
Secondly, if I was given a clear choice between being dropped into Iraq
prior to 2003, or post march 2003 to now AND into the forseeable future [
circa 20+ years ] I'd choose doing business with Suddam any day.
Hey, maybe I'm just naive --- then again maybe I'm endowed with some
uncommon sense? Luckily no one will ever vote me into the white house, so
there's nothing to fear from me in the least no matter who you are, british,
iraqi, iranian, or american.
Savvy my irony?
thx sean
S e a n
--------------------
I'm no Buchanann, so don't worry.
I don't think there's a problem with recognising that Napolean invading
Russia at the end of summer was a very wise move "in hindsight", OR in
foresight.
IF Napolean didn't do that, he may still not have beaten Russia, but for
sure he would have still had a living breathing army that winter, and the
following summer to consider other options.
We can learn from history, and we can learn from considering various
alternatives [ in hindsight ] to what actions were taken. I think it helps
develop people rational thinking and analysis skills. Or there's a potential
that it can "if" ...... :-)
You may fill in the blank.
S e a n
"tg" <tgde...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:df554133-fa2b-4c93...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
-tg
--------------------------------------------------
And so will the next one, until ............................................
<g>
Day Brown
> How simple would it have been, and how cheaper it would have been in $ and
> lives, to simply have let the status quo rest and left Suddam's Iraq to
> annex the Principality of Kuwait in 1991?
task [station troops in the heart of Islam to begin to control the oil
money to cut off the funding for Islamic terrorism], it will find a man
of flawed character [GW Bush] to do it for them.
Then, after the fait accompli, they will discover his faults, [lots to
choose from] and send him away [to his ranch in Paraguay], he taking the
guilt for the action away with him. Next, they will install a man of
impeccable character [Obama], who will go to the offended parties
[Moslems], and say that he is sorry for what that bad man did, but we
are where we are, and maybe we can work something out."
This has so far worked. The troops have drawn the terrorists to Iraq and
we no longer see high rise bombings going on in other regions.
S e a n
"Day Brown" <dayb...@daybrown.org> wrote in message
news:48721bc7$0$20706$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
Machiavelli ......... a great quote, there's more too it, but you captured
the essentials Day.
Glad to see someone's awake out there and following the bouncing ball. :-)
Day Brown
partisan left or right wing box. Dr. Freud said neurotics cannot
tolerate ambiguity, and thus its just unthinkable to admit there are
downsides to every policy proposal.
Sometimes all this looks simply as the end game of the struggle Islam
has had with all other religions in its attempt for global hegemony with
the Christians. And this latest oil price jump may be enuf to finally
make the investment in alternative energy to bring it online.
If that happens, the price of oil will drop dramatically, and the oil
economies wont be able to buy the food for their populations, which'll
make the Islamic oil economies and religion collapse.
But we mite just as well see global financial panic before some plan is
put forth to build optimism, and the dissolution of the Untied States of
Denial as each functional local government repudiates its share of the
National debt. Nobody on TV predicted the fall of the USSR either.
S e a n
Such is the power of illusions, or more correctly 'self-delusions' .......
no one expected the spanish inquisition either .... but when that started it
"appeared to be a good idea at the time."
Of course, many decades later, the powers that be were bitten on their own
arse.
The reason the insane tortures and burnings stopped, was because eventually
the humble folks caught up in the Inquisition realised that the best answer
to "who else is a part of your witches coven" whilst being tortured, was to
offer up the names of the power elites and their families who were
responsible for the Inquisition in the first place.
Almost immediately, the witch hunts stopped around the world.
Funny how an outright lie can sometimes have the power to do a greater good
for all.
That is why being "true to oneself" is so powerful and appropriate in all
circumstances. <smile>
Anyway, back to politics, just like a frog placed in a pot and slowly
brought to the boil without hopping out, so too goes the way of the US
empire builders, and their multi-national hacks. No one will notice!!!
and the cycle will repeat as always. Many muslims see America as the "evil
empire", where once america saw the USSR as the "evil empire", and many
americans see Islam as the latest "axis of evil" ....... all are caught in
their own web of self-delusion...... each holding fast to opposite ends of
the very same stick!
The very same people are alive and well in Russia and East germany today as
were alive when Reagan made his funny comment about the "evil empire".
Nothings really changed, because it wasn't an evil empire to begin with ...
it was just people doing their best to live and making the usual mis-takes
along the way. :-)
ZerkonX
> How simple would it have been, and how cheaper it would have been in $
> and lives, to simply have let the status quo rest and left Suddam's Iraq
> to annex the Principality of Kuwait in 1991?
>
> Had the west and the USA in particular had some vision, a Suddam
> annexation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and stopping all it's
> Wahhabi/Taliban funding of terrorism around the world as well, would
> have been a great allie to have before and in Sept. 2001 and since.
>
> What a great allie Suddam would be to an aggressive nuclear arms seeking
> Iran today?
>
> Mmmmm, it's a funny world ain't it.
What is not funny is that you believe this.
Day Brown
brought to the boil without hopping out, so too goes the way of the US
empire builders, and their multi-national hacks. No one will notice!!!>
It is a fractal pattern so there's no way to know when or if anyone will
notice. Jared Diamond's latest, "Collapse" showed me a consistent
pattern. When the resource base is maxed, what the power elites do is
increase their exploitation of everyone else to keep the rise in their
perks and products going so as to give the illusion that "progress"
continues. I cant think of a single case in all history where the power
elite reduced their consumption to buy more time to look for solutions.
Rather, what we see is that the heat of exploitation increases so that
the middle class frog becomes less active, and thereby less productive
and efficient in its management of the resource base. They self medicate
with drugs and alcohol, which we see results in pilots who crash ships,
ferries, trains, and planes. We see it in the degredation of the infra-
structure like bridges and levees that fail.
We also see it in the financial sector with increased corruption as
those on the inside try to get as much as they can out of a system they
know will crash, before it does that. But at some point, the Greater
Fool theory of markets runs out of fools. The corruption in the stock,
bond, and commodity markets drove middle class investors into real
estate where they thot they knew what they owned. Now, they see that
also had misrepresented valuation.
There is no place left to go, and nobody talks of privatizing Social
Security any more. We are, as my Ozark Hillbilly friends say, at that
awkward time when it is too late for them to fix things, but still too
early to drag the bastards out to be shot. Yet, Yankees have always been
lucky, so a new leader mite emerge with the vision to turn it around.