Philosophy and Science behind Pain

[Ganesh J. Acharya]

What is the Philosophy and Science behind Pain?

When a person is pinched it pains? But when paralyzed the same pinch does not?

And when hypnotized it does not?

[Sir Fred M. McNeill]

"Pain" is a quale. An ancient one, but still a quale.
Like all other qualia, it is a brain based virtual reality
representation of neural processes. 'Life' evolved
with processes for 'self' defense. "Pain" provides
a higher level defense. Lower level processes are
more local reflex, without any cognitive representation,
such as "pain".

Many 'human' language referents are based on ancient
stories, such as "pain", or color, or consciousness, and
some got evolved in. These are all VR representations.
Not illusions, as such, but representations, also subject to
modification.

[tooly]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:13:25 AM UTC-4, Sir Frederick Martin wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 04:50:45 -0700 (PDT), "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshj...@gmail.com> wrote: >What is the Philosophy and Science behind Pain? > >When a person is pinched it pains? But when paralyzed the same pinch does not? > >And when hypnotized it does not? "Pain" is a quale. An ancient one, but still a quale. Like all other qualia, it is a brain based virtual reality representation of neural processes. 'Life' evolved with processes for 'self' defense. "Pain" provides a higher level defense. Lower level processes are more local reflex, without any cognitive representation, such as "pain". Many 'human' language referents are based on ancient stories, such as "pain", or color, or consciousness, and some got evolved in. These are all VR representations. Not illusions, as such, but representations, also subject to modification.

-----------------------
Whatever else you might like to call it, one thing rings true. PAIN, is the ULTIMATE weapon behind ALL tyranny [mind you, I use a broad stroke in my definition of PAIN, to include All discomfort and misery].

PAIN is especially significant to my own conclusions about life, consciousness, existence here, on this planet [some point in time and space with specific environ]. Pain appears to be the root of FEAR. Some say death itself, which might seem functional to say that, but we must consider PAIN being fundamental to our reaching 'non-consciousness'. Is it 'death' [non-consciousness we 'fear', or the discomfort and pain in reaching death?]. I say that 'journey' is the larger thing we fear [note, death, in and of itself, does not exist except the living; and the 'subject' at hand will NEVER know of their death...but only that momentary crossover that is painful...or can be].

Ultimately [I say ultimately, because if you uncover enough layers to our behavior, I argue you come to PAIN as the 'core'...or perhaps, FEAR as it's antecdent]...Ultimately, PAIN is what keeps us alive on this godforsaken crumb of a universal dustball. I say 'godforsaken', because I'm in a cynical moment, where everything I cannot 'believe' in, is crashing down in my head [consciousness], leaving me quite disenchanted with the whole idea of consciousness. Of course, time carries on, and who know what the next moment carries; perhaps God will show up, some day, for some one [ha, knowing my luck, he'll come coughing up lightning bolts up my arse for picking my nose wrong or something...that 'awful' sin...otherwise known as 'blind man's bluff'].

PAIN. Yea, that one scares me. It is my FEAR in fact.

To PROVE my point, think of a consciousness in which no PAIN existed. Flipping the switch to OFF would be as simple as, well, turning off any machine.

Pain is the tyranny which FORCES Me to put with all you EGOS out there...the Immorts, Cahills, and even Sir...every last one of you, HELL ON EARTH [for me anyway]. AS one brain to the next...

Of course we have 'courage'...a weak response to nature's ploy. Courage [to stand up to PAIN, or at least it's risk], is a horrible 'game' we play. True, it enobles us to some degree...but still a HORRIBLE experience to put one's head into the Tiger's maw [pain] that we 'demand' from nature or God or whater putative powers that 'be' to treat us more properly.

We remain just cannon fodder for the stonger scourge however.

Yea, PAIN. It's awful. It IS reality. I justifies hell's domain as something more than 'just' imaginary.

Read about ancient Rome and how gladitor games were a lot more than just combat. They actually did things like pour hot lead down people's throats and worse, just to get a kick. There is a morbidness in us that somehow is enthralled with seeing pain in others. It's why we rubber neck at accidents and find violence in movie fare 'entertaining'...

Ever see a Quentin Tarintino movie? Women will rip a man's heart out if they can get at it [one of the worst kinds of pain]. We fear loss of a paycheck, so humble ourselves to all sorts of humiliation and dehumanization in the workplace, all because without that paycheck, it leads ULTIMATELY [again that word]...to pain and discomfort [like living under a bridge when you can no longer pay the rent etc]. Ever go hungry? PAIN.

Epicurus had it about right I think, that we are in a constant ACT to escape PAIN...and through TIME, evolve 'plateaus'. Breathing must have been painful to the first amphibians, but after time, we evolved lungs. Still takes 'effort' and energy, but an involuntary act now...a 'plateau' where we sense little or not effort involved. Still...hold your breath, and you realize, you BREATHE to escape pain, even still.

A question I have is can pain exist 'beyond' consciousness? Old world theists said it can, in places like Hades. That seems ludicrous today of course. I once had an operation and they slit me open with a knife...and I didn't feel a thing [until I was awake in recovery].

The 'trick' to dying a good death [it seems to me now] is to somehow turn off consciousness BEFORE the fact. TO NOT KNOW. Once consciousness is switched off, there will no perception of PAIN, and one can exit this horribleness without much ado.

Until then though, we FEAR...and it is PAIN we FEAR.

So, does this satisfy the engineer's objectivity there whomever?

[Dare]

"Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshj...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4c7e9df0-6901-4de4...@googlegroups.com...

> What is the Philosophy and Science behind Pain?
>
> When a person is pinched it pains? But when paralyzed the same pinch does not?
>
> And when hypnotized it does not?

Does hypnosis actually work as a way to prevent pain?...
for everyone?....for anyone?

If it works for some but not others....Why?
What makes the difference?

[Ganesh J. Acharya]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 4:46:02 PM UTC+5:30, Dare wrote:
> "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshj...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4c7e9df0-6901-4de4...@googlegroups.com...
>
> > What is the Philosophy and Science behind Pain?
>
> >
>
> > When a person is pinched it pains? But when paralyzed the same pinch does not?
>
> >
>
> > And when hypnotized it does not?
>
>
>
> Does hypnosis actually work as a way to prevent pain?...
>
> for everyone?....for anyone?
>
>
>
> If it works for some

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s5OFD8uTpU

Yes it works for some beyond any doubt

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 9:50:45 PM UTC+10, Ganesh J. Acharya wrote:
> What is the Philosophy and Science behind Pain?

No pleasure without pain for contrast. Pain is part physiological, part psychological. Trying to avoid pain, is a common strategy. Pursuing its opposite, pleasure that is, is deemed natural for the majority.

However many people do accept pain for what good it can do, so they run marathons for no need. That good relates to some higher satisfaction, beyond both pleasure and pain and that sort of satisfaction cannot be got through pleasure.

>
>
>
> When a person is pinched it pains? But when paralyzed the same pinch does not?

Good point, in practical terms when someone wants to pain you he must paralyse you as well. Like anaesthesia, or media that shuts out the bad bits and gives you the feelgood stuff.

>
> And when hypnotized it does not?

Hypnosis is a more manipulative form of paralysis - with a voluntary content.

Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee

[Dare]

"Arindam Banerjee" <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e16ff908-55f3-49f2...@googlegroups.com...

Is it a kind of diversion...focusing the attention elsewhere so the
nerve signals are not "felt" as strongly (or at all).
It reminds me of when a "twitch" is used on a horse (or other animal)
to distract him while some uncomfortable procedure is done instead
of having to use a drug to keep him settled.

[tooly]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:13:25 AM UTC-4, Sir Frederick Martin wrote:

As an EXPERIENCE [and we are 'ONLY' experience machines, by whatever labels we use, quale or VR or any jumbomumbo], AS an experience, can you think of anything WORSE than pain? Philosophically, isn't PAIN why we move? Is not ALL fear essentially tied, ultimately, to PAIN? And is it not FEAR that drives us?

[Immortalist]

On Jun 19, 4:16 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:4c7e9df0-6901-4de4...@googlegroups.com...

>
> > What is the Philosophy and Science behind Pain?
>
> > When a person is pinched it pains? But when paralyzed the same pinch does not?
>
> > And when hypnotized it does not?
>
> Does hypnosis actually work as a way to prevent pain?...
> for everyone?....for anyone?
>
> If it works for some but not others....Why?
> What makes the difference?

Still trying to find a good description of how we turn a little pain
into a bigger pain once we become aware of it. By focussing on the
pain it becomes much bigger.

Despite its unpleasantness, pain is an important part of the existence
of humans and other animals; in fact, it is vital to survival. Pain
encourages an organism to disengage from the noxious stimulus
associated with the pain. Preliminary pain can serve to indicate that
an injury is imminent, such as the ache from a soon-to-be-broken bone.
Pain may also promote the healing process, since most organisms will
protect an injured region in order to avoid further pain. People born
with congenital insensitivity to pain usually have short life spans,
and suffer numerous ailments such as broken bones, bed sores, and
chronic infection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain

First, notice that pain varies a great deal between individuals. 'How
do you know that it varies?', one may ask, and this shows us at once
another characteristic of mental occurrences, we each feel that we
know about our own, but can only learn of those of others indirectly
by their behaviour and especially by their speech. The responses that
people give to presumably painful situations certainly vary a great
deal, both between individuals and in the same person at different
times. Immediately after an injury there is sometimes little
indication of pain. Military surgeons have often reported that men
dreadfully wounded seem to feel no pain, perhaps partly because they
are thinking how glad they are to be alive and out of the battle.
However, the point is that severe pain usually comes some time after
injury (or of course from a chronic internal disturbance). It is a
signal that things are wrong and it sets off the search for a remedy.
Dentists report that patients often say that their pains have gone
away when they reach the safe care of the man who will relieve them.
Conversely we all know of people whose pains we feel may be
exaggerated in an attempt to gain sympathy and attention.

This tells us a lot about another very general characteristic of these
phenomena-they are greatly dependent on the social situation. Is it
possible that what we call our personal feelings are in some way
actually a product of man's deeply social way of life and dependence
on communication? This seems a contradiction, and we must be careful
to avoid any suggestion that to call pains social would be to pretend
that they are 'unreal'. Almost nothing is more real for a human being
than his reactions to those around him, and of them to him. Not only
are responses of pain social but they are also at least partly
learned, often according to the practices of the culture in which the
individual grows...

Programs to switch off pain

Electrical stimulation of certain regions of this central grey matter
seems to make rats insensitive to pinching, burning, and even to
surgery. The animals are not paralysed but seem instead to be
completely oblivious to stimuli that are normally painful. These nerve
cells of the reticular formation contain the substance enkephalin,
injection of which kills pain in the same way as does morphia (Hughes
1975). Enkephalin is probably the neurotrans-mitter involved in
synaptic transmission in these reticular brain centres. Morphine thus
acts by imitating the action of enkephalin in stimulating the nerve
cells that switch off the responses to traumatic stimuli, including
the subjective phenomena of pain. This is the brain's program for
reducing pain.

These actions are due to fibres that proceed from the reticular
regions of the brain downwards to the spinal cord (Fig. 11.8). They
inhibit the cells that send signals upwards from neurons that respond
to noxious stimuli, but they do not inhibit neurons that signal
combinations that indicate touch or other non-harmful events (Basbaum
et al. 1976). There have even been experiments in which stimulation of
particular regions of the central grey matter produce analgesia of one
particular part of the body. Once again we see how actively the brain
regulates everything that is allowed to enter it, even pain.

Programs of the brain.
J. Z. Young 1978
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0198575459/

Entire Book
http://www.giffordlectures.org/Browse.asp?PubID=TPPOTB&Volume=0&Issue=0&TOC=TRUE

[Dare]

"tooly" <rd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:5559c9ce-8aba-4256...@googlegroups.com...

>
> As an EXPERIENCE [and we are 'ONLY' experience machines,
> by whatever labels we use, quale or VR or any jumbomumbo],
> AS an experience, can you think of anything WORSE than pain?
> Philosophically, isn't PAIN why we move? Is not ALL fear essentially tied,
> ultimately, to PAIN? And is it not FEAR that drives us?

It seems pain...and fear... can be mitigated to some extent if
you can find some subjective "higher" meaning or purpose in it.
One of Sir's stories...a good word for it, I think.
On the other hand, in some cases finding a way to manage the
pain or suffering can be the worst thing that can happen
to someone if it keeps him from making needed changes.
Seems to be the case for the experience of life in general as well...
(in my experience.)

[tooly]

I speak to pain 'philosophically', not pragmatically. We all know what pain is, and 'mitigating' it is perhaps LIFES' main endeavor [from the first time we have to crawl out of our cribs to feed ourselves, to the last breath we take, forever in movement to mitigate our discomforts, our sufferings, our longing, our...PAIN].

In my CONTEMPLATIONS, and as I 'soul search' as deep as I can go in self critique and analysis, I come to this ROOT of what moves me [and of course, I asses I'm normal, thusly, seeing an IDENTITY about us all].

You guys [Immort and his library, Sir and his neural synapses and quales this and that...all seem shallow to me; have you guys really THOUGHT on this, seeing it through? Do any of you understand when I say TYRANY's main weapon over any of us, IS PAIN? Why we put up with humilations and dehumanizing workplaces and asshole bosses [all 'bosses' are flawed little Ceasars].

Pain KEEPS us here as PRISONERS Immort; the PUTATIVE GODS [to use Sir's nonsense since everyone seems to like his angle on things]...the putative gods cruel joke on us all. Pain is not 'good'...no matter how pragmatic you want to make it as preventing us from harm's way. Pain is the Devil's calling card [said symbolically of course you buttheads...not literally]...for with the THREAT of pain in a whole boatload of ways, we are made to act against our humanity almost on a daily basis, great and small. Pain is what the so called Stronger scourge uses against us to corral us, manipulate us, and move us like herds of cattle. Pain...not money, not sex, not avarice and greed, not prurient malcontent materialist jadism...but PAIN...that is the ROOT of EVIL in all it's majestic glory in this world. E V I L...

That's not a quale, or 'representations' in the brain, but something very
REAl, and it hurts like hell...because it IS HELL...PAIN. PAIN IS USED BY Those more powerful to hold reign over us...

PAIN PAIN PAIN PAIN. Get it? Sir? Immort? Dare? IT KEEPS US HERE AGAINST OUR WILL, and makes us do things against our humanity. AS long as you behave 'properly', PAIN is kept at bay [by whomever welds it's power, or the world itself]. Don't stick your and in that fire...pain. Don't talk back to the teacher, you get an 'F'...pain. Don't compete with all them other Jamokes vying for Cindy Loo's kisses, and you don't get her attention...pain. Don't act like you LOVE WORK and you don't get to keep your job...and starve...pain.

Immort's angle is the usual suspect and is 'shallow'; the textbook. Sure, pain 'teaches' us how to survive in this world. But if you go deeper and realize our every conscious existence is based upon it, that we HAVE NO CHOICE in the matter [or else, PAIN...and death]...

Ah...why do I try; like talking to dogs; can't understand a damn thing I say, will just think I'm the one barking at the moon or whatever. Mitigate. Yea, of course...escape it; mitigate it. That's what life is all about. Of course.

Trace it back guys; that's all; trace it back. It stands behind ANYTHING you do if you trace it back far enough. FEAR....of....PAIN.


Quale indeed.

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 9:50:45 PM UTC+10, Ganesh J. Acharya wrote:

The racists and bigots seem a bit pained these days. Pain also happens when lies do not work out to the liars' advantages.

[Ganesh J. Acharya]

Also, after thinking about it closely "pain" seems to be "sensation" that's higher in concentration.