Israel-Palestine ----> Mutual Fear & Loathing: = Paradoxes Upon Dilemmas Upon Hopelessness
Robert Cohen
This torturous-tedious, complex article seeks win-win, though if you
could stand to skim it at least once or twice, you'd probably give-up
as most everybody seemingly has--well, admittedly-depressingly, I do
Bret Cahill
Formal explicit dedicated official solutions with hopelessly corny
names like "Road Map" seem to make things worse in a place where
everyone is ultra cynical.
Some kind of indirect "life is what happens while you are making other
plans" may be the best hope. Some problems get solved by working on
them and some problems seem to actually get aggravated by focusing too
directly on them.
Supposedly suicide bombings dropped to nearly zero at the end of
Clinton's 2nd term yet Clinton didn't directly or officially address
the issue. Clinton had no piece of paper with text on it like Carter.
Actually the "life is what happens . . ." quote isn't even true. It
really should be "life is what _doesn't_ happen when you are making
other plans."
So scratch that one.
A better analogy would be looking at stars on a dark night. The
"rods" or "cones" or whatever is more sensitive to light aren't as
bright if you look directly at them. At night you see better with
your peripheral vision.
Bret Cahill
"It doesn't take courage to stick to your convictions. It takes
courage to go _against_ your convictions."
-- Nietzsche
Sean
"Robert Cohen" <robt...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:0724667a-18b9-45ff...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
That's a good article, if it isn;'t complicated and hard to get one's head
around then one isn;t actually dealing with the palestinian issue at all.
My two cents worth?
Immediate plebescite of al people in or out of israel ... do you seek a
permanenet two state solution of Israel and aPalestinian State based upon
the pre-1967 borders.
Yes/No
If yes it happens by Jan 1st 2012 .. and Jerusalem is placed under a UN
International Holy City Status for 99 years run by a UN appointed
Adminstrator similar to Hong Kong
Both Palestinians and Israelis, and all International visitors will have
guaranteed over-land road access to Jerusalem City -- and a new
International Airport will be built for direct flights.
ALL existing permanent residents and citizens , legal or illegal, over 18
years of the former British Mandate of palestine and wishing to Vote on a 2
state solution will have the FREE Choice to relocate to the other nation
State or to Jerusalem City anytime THEY choose to emmigrate for the next 25
years .. no questions asked.
A Truth and Reconcilation Commission similar to South Africa will be set
and any persona in the world will be able to acces it to make a statement
about their particular story. This will be funded and operated entirely by
the UN and not Israel nor Palestine.
Complete amnesty for any "crimes" addmitted to at this Commission will be
automatically applied no matter what the crime, so long as the whole truth
and personal knowledge of said events are disclosed in good faith. No
compensation for such crimes will be enforceable or sought.
A 5 year International Compensation Commission for palestine-Israel to find
a way to adminster a *degree* of natural Justice for any individual person
or family group or collective Village group who was permanently separated
from thier Home, business or farm post Jan 1st 1948 will be set up and run
by a Trust of nations such as the USA, UK, France, Russia, Saudia Arabia,
Indonesia, and Egypt and 3 advisors nations such as Australia, Sweden, and
South Africa. ???
Then a Fund will be established ... with the UN, Israel, USA, Saudia
Arabia, and the EU responsible for Funding said Compensation.
This means that any current jewish Settlers who choose to return to israel
proper, will also quaklify for Natural Justice compensation to the same
degree that a palestinian who lost his home and his farm in 1948 will able
to do ... and all based upon 2009 "valuations" as set by the C .
Change to occur and State of palestine declared Jan 1st 2012.
Reconciliation Commission to run untill 2017
Compensation programs and ongoing sustainable "funding" to be completed by
2017.
Free choice to re-locate with re-location assistance and Compensation if due
up untill 2036.
Jerusalem longterm futer to be decided at International UN forums commencing
after 75 years circa 2085 -- to be agreed and decided by 2095, and
implemented in 2112.
??
And the UN will provide a massive Police and Militia force to operate in the
Palestinian Zone on behalf of the palestinian State, and will be responsible
for trianing the new Law enforcement offciers & Institutions, PLUS the
nations new Defence dept .. etc.
Too easy ....
tg
> "Robert Cohen" <robtco...@msn.com> wrote in message
And too fair.....
And not that profitable for vested interests.....
And no sense of cosmic importance for either side.....
-tg :-(
Fred Weiss
> This torturous-tedious, complex article seeks win-win, ...
There is no such possibility where one side - in this case the
"Palestinians" - are committed to the annihilation of the other,
Israel. They have been from the start and continue to be to this day.
Furthermore, they clearly lack either the will or ability to embrace
civilized values, i.e. free minds and free markets, which keeps them
in permanent poverty and a perpetual state of war (not just against
Israel, but also against each other).
While Israel has moved away from its socialist roots and prospered,
the "Palestinians" continue to be mired in medieval Islamic militancy
and Marxism.
Israel should have been allowed to crush them into submission years
ago, just as we did the Germans and the Japanese - and for precisely
the same reason. There is no possibility of compromising with evil and
hence the only proper course is unconditional surrender.
Of course that should have been our approach with the Arab world in
general. But that's a whole other subject.
Fred Weiss
Bret Cahill
Judging by Jefferson's unwavering support of the French Revolution
which went far beyond the slaughter of rich French property owners,
Jefferson would rather annihilate every last person in every last
Mideast despotism than to see _one single Israeli_ get killed in a
conflict.
No ifs ands or buts about it.
Of course, if you don't support the French Revolution then Jefferson
ain't on your side. That's why none of the friends of Israel in the
media, not even the neocons, ever invokes Jefferson.
Jefferson would set a bad precedent in America.
American capitalists and their minions in the media would prefer
Israel be nuked by Iran than for the wage slaves to get a clue as to
what Jefferson was about.
Bret Cahill
Robert Cohen
I not too irrationally disagree with Sean
My biased slant is that it's hopeless, complex, futile, lose-lose,
miserable
for most everyone in the world to contemplate
I doubt if most anti-Zionists may recall or have read of this
intra-Arabic massive killing (2,000---25,000), which amongst other
hells resulted in Israeli athletes being killed at an Olympics
1Z
> On Nov 10, 11:32 pm, Robert Cohen <robtco...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > This torturous-tedious, complex article seeks win-win, ...
>
> There is no such possibility where one side - in this case the
> "Palestinians" - are committed to the annihilation of the other,
> Israel. They have been from the start and continue to be to this day.
Countries are the sorts of entities that can
have desires are they? How does that work metaphyscially?
tg
He was against the idea of collective desires before he was for it.
-tg
1Z
Individualism is for "us". It's OK to treat "them" as mass.
Fred Weiss
> Judging by Jefferson's unwavering support of the French Revolution...
...until he wavered and later realized his mistake in a letter to John
Adams.
Fred Weiss
Bret Cahill
> ...until he wavered and later realized his mistake in a letter to John
> Adams.
> Fred Weiss
" My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to
this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen
half the earth desolated. Were there but an Adam and an Eve left in
every country, and left free, it would be better than as it now is. I
have expressed to you my sentiments, because they are really those of
99 in an hundred of our citizens. The universal feasts, and rejoicings
which have lately been had on account of the successes of the French
shewed the genuine effusions of their hearts."
Source: Thomas Jefferson, "Letter to William Short" (3 January 1793),
Thomas Jefferson Papers at the Library of Congress, Series 1, Reel 17.
OK, we'll try again:
Judging by Jefferson's unwavering support of the French Revolution
which went far beyond the slaughter of rich French property owners,
Jefferson would rather annihilate every last person in every last
Mideast despotism than to see _one single Israeli_ get killed in a
conflict.
No ifs ands or buts about it.
Of course, if you don't support the French Revolution then Jefferson
ain't on your side. That's why none of the friends of Israel in the
media, not even the neocons, ever invoke Jefferson.