Re: Dog goes Moo
Tang Huyen
Keynes wrote:
> An interesting translation of the Mumomkan.
> http://www.ibiblio.org/zen/cgi-bin/koan-index.pl
>
> Case one contains the instructions for koan
> practice. Koan study is to read the cases without
> engaging them. An interesting activity, but not as
> fruitful as practice-engagement. The advice of
> Mumon has liberated many for centuries. But it's
> not for the dilettantes. You only get what you pay
> for.
>
> Mumonkan case 1
> "Joshu's Dog
>
> A monk asked Joshu, a Chinese Zen master: `Has
> a dog Buddha-nature or not?'
>
> Joshu answered: `Mu.' [Mu is the negative symbol
> in Chinese, meaning `No-thing' or `Nay'.]
>
> Mumon's comments: To realize Zen one has to pass
> through the barrier of the patriarchs. Enlightenment
> always comes after the road of thinking is blocked.
> If you do not pass the barrier of the patriarchs or if
> your thinking road is not blocked, whatever you
> think, whatever you do, is like a tangling ghost. You
> may ask: What is a barrier of a patriarch? This one
> word, Mu, is it.
>
> This is the barrier of Zen. If you pass through it you
> will see Joshu face to face. Then you can work hand
> in hand with the whole line of patriarchs. Is this not a
> pleasant thing to do?
>
> If you want to pass this barrier, you must work
> through every bone in your body, through ever pore
> in your skin, filled with this question: What is Mu?
> and carry it day and night. Do not believe it is the
> common negative symbol meaning nothing. It is not
> nothingness, the opposite of existence. If you really
> want to pass this barrier, you should feel like drinking
> a hot iron ball that you can neither swallow nor spit
> out.
>
> Then your previous lesser knowledge disappears. As
> a fruit ripening in season, your subjectivity and
> objectivity naturally become one. It is like a dumb
> man who has had a dream. He knows about it but
> cannot tell it.
>
> When he enters this condition his ego-shell is crushed
> and he can shake the heaven and move the earth. He
> is like a great warrior with a sharp sword. If a Buddha
> stands in his way, he will cut him down; if a patriarch
> offers him any obstacle, he will kill him; and he will be
> free in this way of birth and death. He can enter any
> world as if it were his own playground. I will tell you
> how to do this with this koan:
>
> Just concentrate your whole energy into this Mu, and
> do not allow any discontinuation. When you enter this
> Mu and there is no discontinuation, your attainment
> will be as a candle burning and illuminating the whole
> universe.
>
> Has a dog Buddha-nature?
> This is the most serious question of all.
> If you say yes or no,
> You lose your own Buddha-nature."
>
> BTW, the koan mu is not the one and only 'magical'
> gate. Any koan pursued as described will do to
> dissolve all barriers.
This public case is famous, but the pattern of what
it suggests to do is almost universal in mental
culture, namely to pull oneself together into a
single ball of attention, a single ball of tension, just
so that one can then drop it as a single unit and free
oneself in a single fell swoop, without loose ends
hanging around.
The well-known Buddhist teaching is to let go,
to not identify with, but here there is something like
one step backward and two steps forward, in that
one begins by, not letting go and not not identifying,
but by doing the reverse, attaching and identifying,
in that one concentrates oneself around the "Wu",
wraps one's mind around it, wraps oneself into a
ball of attention, a ball of tension, with it as one's
centre, hanging on to it as if one was on a cliff.
<<If you want to pass this barrier, you must work
through every bone in your body, through ever pore
in your skin, filled with this question: What is Mu?
and carry it day and night.>>
When one has turned oneself into a solid bloc of
blocage, by total effortfulness, one can then let it
all go in a single fell swoop and be free. The trick
or subterfuge or nostrum is that one uses such a
full-scale blocage as a roundabout, to freeze the
mind so that all pathways of thinking are blocked
(though one does not go about intentionally
blocking thought), in effect to jam all the circuitry
of thinking, which amounts to an all-out effort to
not do anything (iow a huge, overpowering
amount of doing aimed at doing nothing), and due
to such blocage, one can indeed end up doing
nothing (which is the definition of the ultimate
state in Buddhism and Daoism, an-abhisamskara
and wu-wei). Extreme effortfulness can lead to
effortlessness.
<<Just concentrate your whole energy into this
Mu, and do not allow any discontinuation. When
you enter this Mu and there is no discontinuation,
your attainment will be as a candle burning and
illuminating the whole universe.>>
<<If you really want to pass this barrier, you
should feel like drinking a hot iron ball that you
can neither swallow nor spit out.>>
<<To realize Zen one has to pass through the
barrier of the patriarchs. Enlightenment always
comes after the road of thinking is blocked. If
you do not pass the barrier of the patriarchs or if
your thinking road is not blocked, whatever you
think, whatever you do, is like a tangling ghost.
You may ask: What is a barrier of a patriarch?
This one word, Mu, is it.>>
But now, let me return to:
<<If you really want to pass this barrier, you
should feel like drinking a hot iron ball that you
can neither swallow nor spit out.>>
This is a direct calque on the albatross. It reminds
me of the Christians on these boards, who are
stuck with Christianity even as they spend a
lifetime rebelling against it. The more they rebel
against Christianity, the more they are stuck with
it. If anything, their rebellion plays right into the
hand of Christianity, because the former plays by
the rules of the latter and therefore is ruled by the
latter.
Therefore, a possible solution suggests itself.
Such people have been ardently denying their
Christianity, but their denial only makes their
Christianity (that they carry in their head)
stronger, more persistent, more ingrained. They
may want to reverse course and own up to it,
their Christianity, assume their ownership of it,
take responsibility for it, identify (positively)
with it, accept it all the way, and make it part of
them, make themselves whole with it. This is a
step backward, but with it they can become
whole and pull themselves together. Once such
a backward step is completed, they can then
proceed to let Christianity go, and they can do
it all the more easily because they have pulled
themselves together, into a single unit, and can
do whatever they want with themselves, because
now they have a handle on themselves. Thus
they can make two steps forward.
Previously (up to now), they have been in effect
tearing themselves apart whilst ostensibly
fighting Christianity (which they carry in their
head), but by accepting it and making it part
of them (positively), they can reintegrate it into
themselves and therefore make themselves
whole (and not divided), and once they become
whole, it should be much easier to do anything
with themselves, like letting go of their
Christianity. The roundabout (around the
albatross) is to accept their Christianity, make
peace with it, reintegrate it into themselves, and
once it is done, they can then let it slide off like
water off a duck's back. If Christianity (that
they carry in their head) is their cross to bear,
they can lessen its load on them by owning up
to it and accepting it, and once they own up to
it and accept it, it is no longer a load on them,
and they can leverage their ownership and
acceptance of it to shed it, but not before. It is
true that many people who are raised as
Christians scarcely retain any influence of it in
their adulthood, without doing anything about it,
but if they are heavily marked by it and hate it,
they may want to take the above roundabout if
they want to get rid of it.
The morale is that if you can start right off by
letting go, great, do that, but if you are stuck
with something that is hard to let go of, accept it,
make peace with it, and then, from a position of
strength, you can let go of it. Because, if you
spend much energy fighting it, you are depleting
your resources and making yourself scattered in
all directions (making yourself many), and
therefore making yourself weak, but once you
accept it, you can pull yourself together into a
single piece (make yourself one) and accomplish
things with yourself that you can't otherwise. It is
one step backward and two steps forward. (It
might happen that after you have made the first
step, you're comfortable with it and wish to stay
there, namely with Christianity in this case, and
all is well that ends well; at least you're in peace
and no longer in revolt).
Extreme effortfulness can lead to effortlessness,
identification can lead to non-identification,
acceptance can lead to relinquishment. To some
people, that is the only way to work things out.
However, if you can just relax and be serene, all
such pyrotechnics are useless. You can just relax
and be serene.
Tang Huyen
Lee
"Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
news:xdadnWgljpSLcLHW...@supernews.com...
what negotiation exists to be able to be
relaxed and serene all the way down to
the bottom of the subconscious? inside
there are all the shadow dog ghoststrings of your
genetic heritage all fighting for their infinitesimal share
of the egoic limelight since the comfort zone
reward system of a delusional platform wherein
ego convinces itself that its efforts in self servingness
do indeed placate the worry fear and anxiety
syndrome associated with one's survival security
and safety addictions and thus are indeed the true
way to serenity and peacefulness, but it may just be that
relaxing and being serene is in the conscious moment only
and brings contrast and conflict between conscious and
subconcious incongruities and inconsistenceies. true peace
and serenity may only occur when body mind and soul,
on and below the surface, so to speak, are integrous in
their procedure and desire.
zenworm
wrote:
Bodhisattva?
ZN :D _/|\_
absolute permanent perfection overflowing without effort
Tang Huyen
Lee wrote:
> what negotiation exists to be able to be
> relaxed and serene all the way down to
> the bottom of the subconscious? inside
> there are all the shadow dog ghoststrings of your
> genetic heritage all fighting for their infinitesimal
> share of the egoic limelight since the comfort zone
> reward system of a delusional platform wherein
> ego convinces itself that its efforts in self servingness
> do indeed placate the worry fear and anxiety
> syndrome associated with one's survival security
> and safety addictions and thus are indeed the true
> way to serenity and peacefulness, but it may just be
> that relaxing and being serene is in the conscious
> moment only and brings contrast and conflict
> between conscious and subconcious incongruities
> and inconsistenceies. true peace and serenity may
> only occur when body mind and soul, on and
> below the surface, so to speak, are integrous in
> their procedure and desire.
The issue is how perfectionist one wants to be.
Does perfectionism help or harm peace and
serenity? If one is in peace and serenity with
oneself and one's world (which is easy to say but
not easy to do), why would one want to strive for
further peace and serenity? If one wants to strive
for further peace and serenity, doesn't that betray
one's failure at peace and serenity? Peace and
serenity presumably come when one has
reintegrated oneself and reconnected with oneself,
but how much reintegration and reconnection are
enough? Is there a bar for them? If so, does one
want to impose it on oneself and lose peace and
serenity thereby?
I don't mean to stop further discussion, but would
like some light on such issues.
Tang Huyen
Lee
how would you know when and where to stop
in your quest for peace and serenity? do you know
all of the ins and outs of your subconscious mind's parameters?
can you hear those subtle whispers of those genetic heritage
ghosts deep in your subconscious telling you of all their desires for
power, safety, approval and sensation addiction satisfactions?
if you can hear them and totally ignore them, even when the results
of your interaction with them don't necessarily produce tangible
results but may result in some subtle secondary curiosities as well, then
you can discover that still waters do indeed run deep. very, very deep.
zenworm
wrote:
Moment
fully present
there is no 'more'
Tang Huyen
zenworm wrote:
> Moment
>
> fully present
>
> there is no 'more'
>
> ZN :D _/|\_
> absolute permanent perfection overflowing without effort
True, but to arrive at the moment,
one has to strip oneself bare and
go in darkness, knowing nothing.
Pretty austere, eh?
Tang Huyen
Tang Huyen
Lee wrote:
> how would you know when and where to stop
> in your quest for peace and serenity? do you know
> all of the ins and outs of your subconscious mind's
> parameters? can you hear those subtle whispers of
> those genetic heritage ghosts deep in your
> subconscious telling you of all their desires for
> power, safety, approval and sensation addiction
> satisfactions? if you can hear them and totally
> ignore them, even when the results of your
> interaction with them don't necessarily produce
> tangible results but may result in some subtle
> secondary curiosities as well, then you can discover
> that still waters do indeed run deep. very, very deep.
Perfect formula to wreck peace and serenity.
Tang Huyen
Tang Huyen
Lee wrote:
> how would you know when and where to stop
> in your quest for peace and serenity? do you know
> all of the ins and outs of your subconscious mind's
> parameters? can you hear those subtle whispers of
> those genetic heritage ghosts deep in your
> subconscious telling you of all their desires for
> power, safety, approval and sensation addiction
> satisfactions? if you can hear them and totally
> ignore them, even when the results of your
> interaction with them don't necessarily produce
> tangible results but may result in some subtle
> secondary curiosities as well, then you can discover
> that still waters do indeed run deep. very, very deep.
I have already replied, but let me add that this
seems like a spiritual version of the common
theme from half a century ago: "There must be
Commies hiding under your bed".
Tang "very, very deep" Huyen
liaM
Methinks you are describing a scene from the bardo, shuddering
upon hearing ghosts whisper, accosted by monsters and hidden threats
blocking your path to peace and serenity of the after-life..
And indeed, that's what you and Tang are debating :
reaching for the other shore, yet in fear of the after-life.
Face it, you've been loitering in the bardo all these years...
shovelling the bull to keep yourselves from getting anywhere.
Cowards :)
Tang Huyen
liaM wrote:
> Methinks you are describing a scene from the bardo,
> shuddering upon hearing ghosts whisper, accosted by
> monsters and hidden threats blocking your path to
> peace and serenity of the after-life.. And indeed, that's
> what you and Tang are debating : reaching for the
> other shore, yet in fear of the after-life.
>
> Face it, you've been loitering in the bardo all these
> years... shovelling the bull to keep yourselves from
> getting anywhere.
>
> Cowards :)
I don't know how literal you want to be about
the Bardo, but I'll take it in a metaphorical
sense, and indeed, I don't know about other
people, but with me, my life is utter Bardo, in
that it is pure limbo. Everything just hangs, and
nothing gets settled. All I get is a morass of
intuitions, with no firm footing anywhere that
I can tell. Is it raw experience uninformed by
learning, or is it book learning or at least
conditioned by it? Is it reality, or is it fantasy?
And if it is fantasy, is it extended fantasy? It
gives me an oceanic feeling, unrelieved by any
terra firma.
But, hey, I can live with it. It feels like home.
Tang "Bardo dweller" Huyen
Lee
"liaM" <cud...@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:4b2d76e2$0$890$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
i didn't formulate the age old battle between
the life wish and the death wish i just end up
as all do, a victim of the always victorious
death wish.
Lee
conditioning by form is quite involved.
can a cat swing from the trees like a
monkey? can white men jump? can
politicians stop lying? you see what
you're up against ?
Lee
peace and serentiy have always been and
always will be wrecked by the appearance
of life itself. life's main focus is movement
and activity thus they call what you temporarily
inherit, a "nervous system". the only true peace
and serenity is death and dead is what you actually
are as opposed to this temporarily inherited nonsense
called life and all these religious and philosophical
practices are nothing more than methodological
negotiations to help you stay in touch with that
part of you that recognizes your eternally dead
state.
Wompom
Wompom
Too EXTREME IMO...
Somewhere in between, finely balanced?
Lee
"Wompom" <m...@stefangmaj.plus.com> wrote in message
news:9tCdnfCxso30a7DW...@giganews.com...
it's not so bad being dead. it's what is always
there before, during and after that life thingy
rears its ugly head. dead though does carry
pre-misapprehended notions with it just like
"god". if one allows the conditioning to just
slip away, dead is very appealing.
Wompom
Maybe, but you can't practice dharma when dead thus 'life' is a special
opportunity...
Lee
but dharma is just another practice
to help you recognize your inner dead-ness
anyway.
Wompom
"Pointless"! (me) "dead-ness"! (Lee)
OMG!!!
Where do we go from here?
Tang Huyen
Wompom wrote:
> "Pointless"! (me) "dead-ness"! (Lee)
>
> OMG!!!
>
> Where do we go from here?
Marry her.
Tang Huyen
Wompom
And succumb to desire, thus I am defeated?
Desire is transitory, subject to exageration and pulls me out of shape. But
christ is it a powerful force...
Lee PLEASE rescue me from Tang's (very human but not very Buddhist) answer!
Keynes
Think of pink toed deva nymphs.
Wompom
"Keynes" <Key...@earthlinkspam.net> wrote in message
news:00jsi55fqqkpvo34e...@4ax.com...
God is this Buddhist pornography!
Wompom
Am I totally MAD?
Or just male?
Wompom
Actually DOG is a pretty good metaphor
Sniff, sniff, snifff... It's quite pathetic in some respects
:-(
halfawake
Are the human and the Buddhist irreconcilable? Maybe they should get
married too.
Robert
= = = = = =
halfawake
oh thanks!
your buckshot aim has scatter-shot
my lusting heart.
go back 4,000 lifetimes and try again...
:(
robert
halfawake
yes it is.
Robert
= = = = = = = =
liaM
There's a vast psychological difference between a
state of limbo, and the bardo as described in the
Tibetan book of the dead. Quite rightly you
are in limbo, submerged in the bouillabaise of your
consciousness and not in the ocean of the Bardo,
confronting the psychological shocks and sharks
that accompany change.
Sobeit.
Lee Rudolph
>Le 12/20/2009 2:22 AM, Tang Huyen a �crit :
...
>> And if it is fantasy, is it extended fantasy? It
>> gives me an oceanic feeling, unrelieved by any
>> terra firma.
>>
>> But, hey, I can live with it. It feels like home.
>>
>> Tang "Bardo dweller" Huyen
>
>There's a vast psychological difference between a
>state of limbo, and the bardo as described in the
>Tibetan book of the dead. Quite rightly you
>are in limbo, submerged in the bouillabaise of your
>consciousness and not in the ocean of the Bardo,
>confronting the psychological shocks and sharks
>that accompany change.
What a nice metaphor to commemorate the 52nd day since
Levi-Strauss died. "What, Pere Claude, distinguishes
limbo from the Bardo?" "Simply this, my child: the
seafood in the latter is raw; it is cooked in the
former."
Lee Rudolph (raw shark test: bridge it, Bardo)
Keynes
wrote:
>liaM <cud...@mindless.com> writes:
On PBS I saw Rick Steves in Bulgaria.
It's a mountainous backward state that still uses
horses and donkeys, sythes and threshing sticks.
Used to be called Thrace (where Sparticus came
from) north of Greece, adjacent to Turkey. The
cyrillic alphabet was invented there. There are
muslims, eastern (or greek?) orthodox christians,
and romany (gypsies) there, living in peace since the
fall of USSR communism. The christians have some
sort of 40 day ritual following a death. (Details
unmentioned.) Very curious.
liaM
10/10 !
Wompom
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:37:30 +0000 (UTC), Lee Rudolph <lrud...@panix.com>
> wrote:
>
>>liaM <cud...@mindless.com> writes:
>>
Did you know that the cyrillic alphabet was invented by Saint Cyril?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saints_Cyril_and_Methodius
Wompom
Got any good pics?
:-)....
<I need them for my sitting and OBSERVING practice>
Lee
living in peace is an oxymoronic non-sequitorial
ad hominenium bell curve hopping backwater
cesspooling moebius stripping chromodynamic
maze echo pathway. death is peace. life is a
monotonously useless activity ad nauseum ad infinitum.
just try to stop life. it's everywhere.
Lee
"Lee Rudolph" <lrud...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hgo17a$fm3$1...@reader1.panix.com...
and overdone in hell
Wompom
>
> "Keynes" <Key...@earthlinkspam.net> wrote in message
> news:pb2vi5528dhcv9lkh...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:37:30 +0000 (UTC), Lee Rudolph
>> <lrud...@panix.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>liaM <cud...@mindless.com> writes:
>>>
Lee, have you lost your Mojo?
Where did you leave it?
:-)
Lee
in an apriori un-vitro sardine can
Wompom
Lee
they claim that i can't even climb the totem pole.
see what happens when tribal herding strategy rules?
Tang Huyen
liaM wrote:
> There's a vast psychological difference between a
> state of limbo, and the bardo as described in the
> Tibetan book of the dead. Quite rightly you
> are in limbo, submerged in the bouillabaise of your
> consciousness and not in the ocean of the Bardo,
> confronting the psychological shocks and sharks
> that accompany change.
>
> Sobeit.
When you talk of the Bardo, apparently
you mean it literally, as a state between
death and rebirth, what Buddhist
scholasticism calls antara-bhava, as lived
by the gandharva. Have you any direct
experience of it, and not from second-hand
knowledge?
I am not being sarcastic, but just want to
know.
Tang Huyen
liaM
Of course I have.
halfawake
I guess it's better than in a Godda Davida.
>>
>> That explains a lot!
>
>
> they claim that i can't even climb the totem pole.
> see what happens when tribal herding strategy rules?
ITWWCIN? I hear you climb the ol' totem pole quite regularly, but
maybe it's just a rumour.
/Enticing!/
Robert
- - - - - - - -
Lee
"halfawake" <epste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hgsgff$g52$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
i wake up every morning
under a tent.