<thetibetanmon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 4, 2:27 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 19:22:37 +0100, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk>
> > wrote:
> > Yeah, I know. Public roads would be great without vehicles. Take
> > away the vehicles, and give everyone a bicycle, and nirvana is certain
> > to follow. Just one small problem. Bicycles don't pay the road tax,
> > so the public roads will start to rapidly deteriorate without the
> > vehicles to support the necessary maintenance. Of course, the trucks,
> > buses, and delivery vehicles will still be necessary, so instead of
> > cars, the cyclists will get to dodge those.
> The Wise Man chooses the middle way. It's not like we want perfect
> world with no cars. We could share the road nicely if our masters
> decided so.
> It's all big business, you know, and that stands on the path of
> progress.
OK, one more "confusing" law, this time while driving. Last night I
had a ticket while turning left on green. The driver in front didn't
advance and I went around him/her, and the cop caught me. See, these
drivers (old ladies, AARP type) are afraid to turn with a green light
and wait for the green arrow. There's no reason for it, leaving the
driver behind you stuck. Maybe he/she was chatting or something. This
may seem irrelevant to a bike forum, but we must deal with all these
idiots --and the equally idiotic laws-- everyday.
I went to the book and this guy from NY comments:
QUESTION:
I would like to know the correct procedure to make a left-hand turn
from the left lane while the traffic light is still green.
In New York, I was taught, and the law confirmed, that the driver
should proceed to the middle of the intersection if the intersection
was clear of any other vehicles in front of me, then, when the on-
coming traffic clears, I should make the left turn.
However, during a recent AARP safe drivers class, the instructor
insisted that in Florida, the above procedure is NOT permitted. She
stated that in Florida, the driver must NOT enter the intersection but
remain at the stop line as if the light was red and only proceed to
make the left turn when the on coming traffic clears and your light is
still green.
Please let me know which procedure is the correct one for Florida.
ANSWER:
Understand that driver safety instructors are not lawyers, don't often
know what the law says exactly and cannot always be relied on to give
completely accurate information. Here's the FL statute:
316.122 Vehicle turning left.—The driver of a vehicle intending to
turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private
road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle
approaching from the opposite direction, or vehicles lawfully passing
on the left of the turning vehicle, which is within the intersection
or so close thereto as to constitute an immediate hazard. A violation
of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a
moving violation as provided in chapter 318.
But I tell you what, all this confusion amounts to more business for
lawyers and courts. I can go to a lawyer and he would take care of
everything. Someone says this is a money jungle.
Do you as a cyclist represent good business? I'm afraid the answer is
"NO!" And I rest my case. ;)
TibetanMonkey wrote:
>"Lucky are those who don't enter the rat race" -The TibetanMonkey
The rat race is inside your head.
>OK, one more "confusing" law, this time while driving. Last night I
>had a ticket while turning left on green. The driver in front didn't
>advance and I went around him/her, and the cop caught me.
No confusion there.
Perhaps the "quotes"
say something about how it is.
> See, these
>drivers (old ladies, AARP type) are afraid to turn with a green light
>and wait for the green arrow.
Which you were not patient enough to wait for.
> There's no reason for it, leaving the
>driver behind you stuck.
There are reasons for it.
You are simply not being reasonable.
What was your super big hurry?
> Maybe he/she was chatting or something.
Perhaps. Or, possibly, old.
Some folks, when they get older,
their brains don't work all too good.
Possibly that's what is happening to you.
>This
>may seem irrelevant to a bike forum, but we must deal with all these
>idiots --and the equally idiotic laws-- everyday.
While it might be irrelevant to a bike forum,
you are not posting this to a bike forum.
This could be a sign of dementia.
Here's a test for you.
Beginning with 100, count backwards by 7s.
If it's difficult, you might see your doctor
and determine how far along you are
down the path of brain-fade.
>I went to the book and this guy from NY comments:
>QUESTION:
>I would like to know the correct procedure to make a left-hand turn
>from the left lane while the traffic light is still green.
>In New York, I was taught, and the law confirmed, that the driver
>should proceed to the middle of the intersection if the intersection
>was clear of any other vehicles in front of me, then, when the on-
>coming traffic clears, I should make the left turn.
>However, during a recent AARP safe drivers class, the instructor
>insisted that in Florida, the above procedure is NOT permitted. She
>stated that in Florida, the driver must NOT enter the intersection but
>remain at the stop line as if the light was red and only proceed to
>make the left turn when the on coming traffic clears and your light is
>still green.
If you are at the stop line
then you have not entered the intersection.
Without entering the intersection,
you do not have any right of way
after the light turns red.
Under that circumstance,
you would never complete the turn
without running the red light.
>Please let me know which procedure is the correct one for Florida.
>ANSWER:
>Understand that driver safety instructors are not lawyers, don't often
>know what the law says exactly and cannot always be relied on to give
>completely accurate information. Here's the FL statute:
>316.122 Vehicle turning left.—The driver of a vehicle intending to
>turn to the left within an intersection
Note the phrase, "within an intersection."
Behind the limit/stop line is not within an intersection.
The limit/stop line is what the driver stops behind
to keep from entering an intersection.
>or into an alley, private
>road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle
>approaching from the opposite direction, or vehicles lawfully passing
>on the left of the turning vehicle, which is within the intersection
>or so close thereto as to constitute an immediate hazard.
It says nothing about going around dumb-shits
who can't figure out how to drive, or post messages
that are not on-topic.
>A violation
>of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a
>moving violation as provided in chapter 318.
> TibetanMonkey wrote:
> >"Lucky are those who don't enter the rat race" -The TibetanMonkey
> The rat race is inside your head.
> >OK, one more "confusing" law, this time while driving. Last night I
> >had a ticket while turning left on green. The driver in front didn't
> >advance and I went around him/her, and the cop caught me.
> No confusion there.
> Perhaps the "quotes"
> say something about how it is.
> > See, these
> >drivers (old ladies, AARP type) are afraid to turn with a green light
> >and wait for the green arrow.
> Which you were not patient enough to wait for.
> > There's no reason for it, leaving the
> >driver behind you stuck.
> There are reasons for it.
> You are simply not being reasonable.
> What was your super big hurry?
> > Maybe he/she was chatting or something.
> Perhaps. Or, possibly, old.
> Some folks, when they get older,
> their brains don't work all too good.
> Possibly that's what is happening to you.
> >This
> >may seem irrelevant to a bike forum, but we must deal with all these
> >idiots --and the equally idiotic laws-- everyday.
> While it might be irrelevant to a bike forum,
> you are not posting this to a bike forum.
> This could be a sign of dementia.
> Here's a test for you.
> Beginning with 100, count backwards by 7s.
> If it's difficult, you might see your doctor
> and determine how far along you are
> down the path of brain-fade.
> >I went to the book and this guy from NY comments:
> >QUESTION:
> >I would like to know the correct procedure to make a left-hand turn
> >from the left lane while the traffic light is still green.
> >In New York, I was taught, and the law confirmed, that the driver
> >should proceed to the middle of the intersection if the intersection
> >was clear of any other vehicles in front of me, then, when the on-
> >coming traffic clears, I should make the left turn.
> >However, during a recent AARP safe drivers class, the instructor
> >insisted that in Florida, the above procedure is NOT permitted. She
> >stated that in Florida, the driver must NOT enter the intersection but
> >remain at the stop line as if the light was red and only proceed to
> >make the left turn when the on coming traffic clears and your light is
> >still green.
> If you are at the stop line
> then you have not entered the intersection.
> Without entering the intersection,
> you do not have any right of way
> after the light turns red.
> Under that circumstance,
> you would never complete the turn
> without running the red light.
> >Please let me know which procedure is the correct one for Florida.
> >ANSWER:
> >Understand that driver safety instructors are not lawyers, don't often
> >know what the law says exactly and cannot always be relied on to give
> >completely accurate information. Here's the FL statute:
> >316.122 Vehicle turning left.—The driver of a vehicle intending to
> >turn to the left within an intersection
> Note the phrase, "within an intersection."
> Behind the limit/stop line is not within an intersection.
> The limit/stop line is what the driver stops behind
> to keep from entering an intersection.
> >or into an alley, private
> >road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle
> >approaching from the opposite direction, or vehicles lawfully passing
> >on the left of the turning vehicle, which is within the intersection
> >or so close thereto as to constitute an immediate hazard.
> It says nothing about going around dumb-shits
> who can't figure out how to drive, or post messages
> that are not on-topic.
> >A violation
> >of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a
> >moving violation as provided in chapter 318.
> TibetanMonkey wrote:
> >Are you always on the side of the big fish?
> I tend to be on the happy side
> of most schools of thought.
> >Remember a bad karma may make you reincarnate into a small fish...
> Exactly.
> You tend to be on the sad side.
> An unhappy small fish.
> Your doing got you a ticket.
> Your obsessive compulsions
> lead you to do as you do.
> With an about-face
> you might have the behavior
> instead of the other
> way round.
Another way to look at it is that people live like robots in order to
avoid reality. That's the way people are around here. The affluent
community next door puts a barricade on an intersection that blocks
cars and bikes, and we live in something very similar to a Palestinian
camp, but we can pretend to be happy. Maybe even the Palestinians
should benefit from your wisdom to ignore their sad fate.
Why should they be unhappy when there's Buddhism? They can go and join
a yoga class so fashionable around here. Funny thing is it's mostly
the middle class that joins such pursuits. Eastern Philosophies an
instrument of power?
>> I tend to be on the happy side
>> of most schools of thought.
>> >Remember a bad karma may make you reincarnate into a small fish...
>> Exactly.
>> You tend to be on the sad side.
>> An unhappy small fish.
>> Your doing got you a ticket.
>> Your obsessive compulsions
>> lead you to do as you do.
>> With an about-face
>> you might have the behavior
>> instead of the other
>> way round.
>Another way to look at it is that people live like robots in order to
>avoid reality. That's the way people are around here. The affluent
>community next door puts a barricade on an intersection that blocks
>cars and bikes, and we live in something very similar to a Palestinian
>camp, but we can pretend to be happy.
That would be pretentious.
> Maybe even the Palestinians
>should benefit from your wisdom to ignore their sad fate.
You see their fate as sad. Me too.
But what do I know? And how do I know it?
Many of the down-trodden do feel sad.
And it is sad, when seen through sad eyes.
Rightfully so. There is plenty of bad to be had.
Extremists of the reactionary sort think
the clock ought be turned back to pastoral daze.
Do away with all modern industry. Then
there will be peace once and for all.
Each fantasy is fantastic.
Each has its limits.
There is some truth in what you point out.
There are many wrongs to right if you care to.
If you feel called to enter that arena
then that's your number
one priority.
However, if you were to take a sample of children
from the gated communities and from the walled cities,
each fenced off from some other portion of reality,
as you call it, and see how sad or happy
the little kids are, you may find that both are
as happy as little kids tend to be.
Ignorance can indeed be bliss.
Knowledge often breeds unhappiness.
If you know green, you may desire greener.
If you didn't know greener, you could be happy
with the green your green happens to be.
Shades may wear one out on the inside.
Whether it's more money, a bigger lawn,
or whatever greener monster possesses you,
if you're not happy with what you have
there is no guarantee more is a better way
to bring you to a more happy state.
If you lose what little you think you possess
and then it returns to you, you might be happy
with what you previously were not happy with.
There can be many ways to see what can be called reality.
What you cling to may catch
on what you think.
>Why should they be unhappy when there's Buddhism?
Once children have been taught to be unhappy,
they may desire to again regain a joy of youth.
If so, Buddhism could provide an answer.
> They can go and join
>a yoga class so fashionable around here.
Yoga might be a stretch
of a progressive relaxational way.
> Funny thing is it's mostly
>the middle class that joins such pursuits. Eastern Philosophies an
>instrument of power?
Religion may be an opiate.
Materialism might be an addiction.
Little children could be naturally happy.
Being in the moment, without clinging to desires,
much suffering is avoidable. It's the wanting
which induces pain in the brain.
When you let go of what you don't have
some of the pain is released as well.
Being attached to the fruit of labor
is different from a labor of love.
Trying to change the world isn't necessarily bad, however futile
it is from some vantage points.
If you're happy in your struggle
then you're happy.
A wise one may have said
there will always be struggles
to struggle with if that's your idea
of having a good time.
If you want to do good
then you need to find some bad
in order to feed your want.
When you let go of the good-bad ball
it bounces only so far before it stops
all by itself.
> >> I tend to be on the happy side
> >> of most schools of thought.
> >> >Remember a bad karma may make you reincarnate into a small fish...
> >> Exactly.
> >> You tend to be on the sad side.
> >> An unhappy small fish.
> >> Your doing got you a ticket.
> >> Your obsessive compulsions
> >> lead you to do as you do.
> >> With an about-face
> >> you might have the behavior
> >> instead of the other
> >> way round.
> >Another way to look at it is that people live like robots in order to
> >avoid reality. That's the way people are around here. The affluent
> >community next door puts a barricade on an intersection that blocks
> >cars and bikes, and we live in something very similar to a Palestinian
> >camp, but we can pretend to be happy.
> That would be pretentious.
> > Maybe even the Palestinians
> >should benefit from your wisdom to ignore their sad fate.
> You see their fate as sad. Me too.
> But what do I know? And how do I know it?
> Many of the down-trodden do feel sad.
> And it is sad, when seen through sad eyes.
> Rightfully so. There is plenty of bad to be had.
> Extremists of the reactionary sort think
> the clock ought be turned back to pastoral daze.
> Do away with all modern industry. Then
> there will be peace once and for all.
> Each fantasy is fantastic.
> Each has its limits.
> There is some truth in what you point out.
> There are many wrongs to right if you care to.
> If you feel called to enter that arena
> then that's your number
> one priority.
> However, if you were to take a sample of children
> from the gated communities and from the walled cities,
> each fenced off from some other portion of reality,
> as you call it, and see how sad or happy
> the little kids are, you may find that both are
> as happy as little kids tend to be.
I think you have raised some good point. Maybe the children of the
Palestinian ghetto will be happy because they have plenty of friends --
perhaps riding bikes-- while the children of Gated Community will be
alone. But when they grow up their destiny will place them on
different sides of the fence. They'll look at each other and see how
much they are missing. The grownup man in the Gated Community would
love to ride his bike all over the place without fear. And the grownup
man in the ghetto will be plotting to get what he feels is his.
Isn't time to bring down those walls? Aren't the walls the problem?
What is the problem?
> Ignorance can indeed be bliss.
> Knowledge often breeds unhappiness.
> If you know green, you may desire greener.
> If you didn't know greener, you could be happy
> with the green your green happens to be.
> Shades may wear one out on the inside.
> Whether it's more money, a bigger lawn,
> or whatever greener monster possesses you,
> if you're not happy with what you have
> there is no guarantee more is a better way
> to bring you to a more happy state.
> If you lose what little you think you possess
> and then it returns to you, you might be happy
> with what you previously were not happy with.
> There can be many ways to see
> what can be called reality.
> What you cling to may catch
> on what you think.
> >Why should they be unhappy when there's Buddhism?
> Once children have been taught to be unhappy,
> they may desire to again regain a joy of youth.
> If so, Buddhism could provide an answer.
> > They can go and join
> >a yoga class so fashionable around here.
> Yoga might be a stretch
> of a progressive relaxational way.
> > Funny thing is it's mostly
> >the middle class that joins such pursuits. Eastern Philosophies an
> >instrument of power?
> Religion may be an opiate.
> Materialism might be an addiction.
> Little children could be naturally happy.
> Being in the moment, without clinging to desires,
> much suffering is avoidable. It's the wanting
> which induces pain in the brain.
> When you let go of what you don't have
> some of the pain is released as well.
> Being attached to the fruit of labor
> is different from a labor of love.
> Trying to change the world
> isn't necessarily bad, however futile
> it is from some vantage points.
> If you're happy in your struggle
> then you're happy.
> A wise one may have said
> there will always be struggles
> to struggle with if that's your idea
> of having a good time.
> If you want to do good
> then you need to find some bad
> in order to feed your want.
> When you let go of the good-bad ball
> it bounces only so far before it stops
> all by itself.
I think we all have the capacity to change the world. Maybe we can
change ourselves, maybe we can change others. Did Gandhi change the
world? He was a man of great wisdom who said "be the change that you
want to inspire."
(It was a rather enlightening post --not enlightened certainly-- but
not concentrating on personal attacks. I think we are getting
somewhere. We must move or fall off the bike)
<comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That's something Gorbachev would recognize. Now the situation is a bit
> more complicated. There many more walls to bring down. And they seem
> to conform to the "laws of nature," which say that some animals are
> better than others. But a fat cat is no better than a mouse. We all
> protect the cats and chase the mice but that's part of a cultural
> bias. I have a chat here with a Buddhist follower that may be
> enlightening for the world. It takes place in a hypothetical
> Palestinian ghetto. Yes, the word has been carefully chosen.
> > >> >Are you always on the side of the big fish?
> > >> I tend to be on the happy side
> > >> of most schools of thought.
> > >> >Remember a bad karma may make you reincarnate into a small fish...
> > >> Exactly.
> > >> You tend to be on the sad side.
> > >> An unhappy small fish.
> > >> Your doing got you a ticket.
> > >> Your obsessive compulsions
> > >> lead you to do as you do.
> > >> With an about-face
> > >> you might have the behavior
> > >> instead of the other
> > >> way round.
> > >Another way to look at it is that people live like robots in order to
> > >avoid reality. That's the way people are around here. The affluent
> > >community next door puts a barricade on an intersection that blocks
> > >cars and bikes, and we live in something very similar to a Palestinian
> > >camp, but we can pretend to be happy.
> > That would be pretentious.
> > > Maybe even the Palestinians
> > >should benefit from your wisdom to ignore their sad fate.
> > You see their fate as sad. Me too.
> > But what do I know? And how do I know it?
> > Many of the down-trodden do feel sad.
> > And it is sad, when seen through sad eyes.
> > Rightfully so. There is plenty of bad to be had.
> > Extremists of the reactionary sort think
> > the clock ought be turned back to pastoral daze.
> > Do away with all modern industry. Then
> > there will be peace once and for all.
> > Each fantasy is fantastic.
> > Each has its limits.
> > There is some truth in what you point out.
> > There are many wrongs to right if you care to.
> > If you feel called to enter that arena
> > then that's your number
> > one priority.
> > However, if you were to take a sample of children
> > from the gated communities and from the walled cities,
> > each fenced off from some other portion of reality,
> > as you call it, and see how sad or happy
> > the little kids are, you may find that both are
> > as happy as little kids tend to be.
> I think you have raised some good point. Maybe the children of the
> Palestinian ghetto will be happy because they have plenty of friends --
> perhaps riding bikes-- while the children of Gated Communities will be
> alone. But when they grow up their destiny will place them on
> different sides of the fence. They'll look at each other and see how
> much they are missing. The grownup man in the Gated Community would
> love to ride his bike all over the place without fear. And the grownup
> man in the ghetto will be plotting to get what he feels is his.
> Isn't it time to bring down those walls? Aren't the walls the problem?
> What is the problem?
OK, it seems nobody wants to tear down those walls, but look what came
up in the news today. A new train goes through the middle of
Palestinian territories uniting people that don't like each other.
"for a few precious moments it seems like everyone’s in this
together."
Did I mention that barricades are going up in my community dividing
people? I must have forgotten. But I had a blast today on my monkey
bike. A bike unites people but not to the point that we smell each
other. I think that's what we need.
> On Jul 9, 12:23 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> That's something Gorbachev would recognize. Now the situation is a bit
>> more complicated. There many more walls to bring down. And they seem
>> to conform to the "laws of nature," which say that some animals are
>> better than others. But a fat cat is no better than a mouse. We all
>> protect the cats and chase the mice but that's part of a cultural
>> bias. I have a chat here with a Buddhist follower that may be
>> enlightening for the world. It takes place in a hypothetical
>> Palestinian ghetto. Yes, the word has been carefully chosen.
>>>>>> Are you always on the side of the big fish?
>>>>> I tend to be on the happy side
>>>>> of most schools of thought.
>>>>>> Remember a bad karma may make you reincarnate into a small fish...
>>>>> Exactly.
>>>>> You tend to be on the sad side.
>>>>> An unhappy small fish.
>>>>> Your doing got you a ticket.
>>>>> Your obsessive compulsions
>>>>> lead you to do as you do.
>>>>> With an about-face
>>>>> you might have the behavior
>>>>> instead of the other
>>>>> way round.
>>>> Another way to look at it is that people live like robots in order to
>>>> avoid reality. That's the way people are around here. The affluent
>>>> community next door puts a barricade on an intersection that blocks
>>>> cars and bikes, and we live in something very similar to a Palestinian
>>>> camp, but we can pretend to be happy.
>>> That would be pretentious.
>>>> Maybe even the Palestinians
>>>> should benefit from your wisdom to ignore their sad fate.
>>> You see their fate as sad. Me too.
>>> But what do I know? And how do I know it?
>>> Many of the down-trodden do feel sad.
>>> And it is sad, when seen through sad eyes.
>>> Rightfully so. There is plenty of bad to be had.
>>> Extremists of the reactionary sort think
>>> the clock ought be turned back to pastoral daze.
>>> Do away with all modern industry. Then
>>> there will be peace once and for all.
>>> Each fantasy is fantastic.
>>> Each has its limits.
>>> There is some truth in what you point out.
>>> There are many wrongs to right if you care to.
>>> If you feel called to enter that arena
>>> then that's your number
>>> one priority.
>>> However, if you were to take a sample of children
>>> from the gated communities and from the walled cities,
>>> each fenced off from some other portion of reality,
>>> as you call it, and see how sad or happy
>>> the little kids are, you may find that both are
>>> as happy as little kids tend to be.
>> I think you have raised some good point. Maybe the children of the
>> Palestinian ghetto will be happy because they have plenty of friends --
>> perhaps riding bikes-- while the children of Gated Communities will be
>> alone. But when they grow up their destiny will place them on
>> different sides of the fence. They'll look at each other and see how
>> much they are missing. The grownup man in the Gated Community would
>> love to ride his bike all over the place without fear. And the grownup
>> man in the ghetto will be plotting to get what he feels is his.
>> Isn't it time to bring down those walls? Aren't the walls the problem?
>> What is the problem?
> OK, it seems nobody wants to tear down those walls, but look what came
> up in the news today. A new train goes through the middle of
> Palestinian territories uniting people that don't like each other.
> "for a few precious moments it seems like everyone’s in this
> together."
> Did I mention that barricades are going up in my community dividing
> people? I must have forgotten. But I had a blast today on my monkey
> bike. A bike unites people but not to the point that we smell each
> other. I think that's what we need.
>> >> >Are you always on the side of the big fish?
>> >> I tend to be on the happy side
>> >> of most schools of thought.
>> >> >Remember a bad karma may make you reincarnate into a small fish...
>> >> Exactly.
>> >> You tend to be on the sad side.
>> >> An unhappy small fish.
>> >> Your doing got you a ticket.
>> >> Your obsessive compulsions
>> >> lead you to do as you do.
>> >> With an about-face
>> >> you might have the behavior
>> >> instead of the other
>> >> way round.
>> However, if you were to take a sample of children
>> from the gated communities and from the walled cities,
>> each fenced off from some other portion of reality,
>> as you call it, and see how sad or happy
>> the little kids are, you may find that both are
>> as happy as little kids tend to be.
>I think you have raised some good point. Maybe the children of the
>Palestinian ghetto will be happy because they have plenty of friends --
>perhaps riding bikes-- while the children of Gated Community will be
>alone. But when they grow up their destiny will place them on
>different sides of the fence. They'll look at each other and see how
>much they are missing. The grownup man in the Gated Community would
>love to ride his bike all over the place without fear. And the grownup
>man in the ghetto will be plotting to get what he feels is his.
>Isn't time to bring down those walls? Aren't the walls the problem?
>What is the problem?
I agree it's time to take away walls.
I'd go so far as to say it's time to erase
all the lines people have drawn
between nation-states
in their own minds.
But I know that time is not now for all.
Many people are patriotic. They draw lines
around some territory and want to expand it
or to defend it from what they perceive
as being others.
Among the problems is the drawing of lines.
The partitioning of one's consciousness.
When lines are erased,
shifts in consciousness may occur.
>> Ignorance can indeed be bliss.
>> Knowledge often breeds unhappiness.
>> If you know green, you may desire greener.
>> If you didn't know greener, you could be happy
>> with the green your green happens to be.
>> Shades may wear one out on the inside.
>> Whether it's more money, a bigger lawn,
>> or whatever greener monster possesses you,
>> if you're not happy with what you have
>> there is no guarantee more is a better way
>> to bring you to a more happy state.
>> When you let go of the good-bad ball
>> it bounces only so far before it stops
>> all by itself.
>I think we all have the capacity to change the world. Maybe we can
>change ourselves, maybe we can change others.
If you can change your outlook
then you have changed the world.
> Did Gandhi change the world?
Words have meanings
and there is much in how a statement is made.
> He was a man of great wisdom who said "be the change that you
>want to inspire."
If you want the world to be happier
then you yourself may want to be that.
And in so far as you are, you have changed
yourself and the world in the process.
>(It was a rather enlightening post --not enlightened certainly-- but
>not concentrating on personal attacks. I think we are getting
>somewhere. We must move or fall off the bike)
Some people won't change. Period.
They are as boulders in a stream.
Water flows around such objects.
Those who live in gated communities,
those who build walls to protect themselves,
who live in fear of being bombed, because, for them,
their reality is such that there are other people
who want to eliminate them from the face of Earth,
those people may not change to suit you.
There may be an SUV driver who is angry
and would swerve into you out of that anger.
There may be those on the other side of the fence
that would love to have your problems.
You live in a gated community called the States.
There are many states within.
Being able to move from one to another,
across the borders, without a problem,
can be a solution of great magnitude.
When one problem is solved
other problems often become evident.
There is no end to solving problems
if that is what one cares to do.
There can always be a cause to fight for.
The world can always be better, when seen
as not being perfect exactly as it is.
At rare times
there may be a glimpse
of a glimmer of how things are.
Of how they had to be how they are.
Of how they could not be any other way.
Of how everything fits together perfect.
And is, in a way, perfect as it is.
In this perfection
there is no good nor bad.
Good and bad are derivatives.
Perfection is beyond good and bad.
In this perfection, One is.
You are that One.
Yet it escapes you.
It becomes viewed as 10k-things.
The glimpse and glimmer fades
as you become involved in doing.
In doing the things you do,
as you must do, in order to be you,
you might regain that vision at times,
as you move beyond time.
Evolving eternally.
From now to now thru changes.
You change yet remain the same.
Seeing the horses put me in mind of you
and I wondered who cleans up
the mess they are known to make.
And who would complain
about that mess. Rather than being a part of
the clean-up crew, in this case, those who complain
tend to remain apart from, many things.
Why, they would ask, should I clean up
the mess horses make? I don't ride a horse.
Eliminate horses and their mess is removed.
>Did I mention that barricades are going up in my community dividing
>people? I must have forgotten.
You suggested streets were being blocked
to keep through-traffic out of neighborhoods.
Through-traffic can be very annoying
and dangerous for little kids.
> But I had a blast today on my monkey
>bike. A bike unites people but not to the point that we smell each
>other. I think that's what we need.
Yes. I think probably everyone who has been reading your messages
knows that is how and what you think.
A problem arises in your thinking however
in so far as where you live is not conducive
to how your mind tends to create walls.
Instead of seeing all things as natural
and accepting them for what they are
your brain compels you to want to try
and change the way things are.
If you really did live in a jungle,
full of snakes and tigers and rhino,
you would try to make the rhino and
the tiger and the snakes behave
as you would wish them to.
If you really lived in a jungle
where the pathways were how they were
because the jungle itself fostered those paths,
you would never-the-less not approve.
The jungle can be an excellent metaphor.
Instead of trying to change the jungle
you could simply figure out how it is
and adjust to be in accord with it.
On three days out of the week
you could allow the jungle to be itself.
On three days out of the week,
you could try to change it to suit you.
On one day of the week, you may
forget about both of those ways
and see how ways are ways
but none are a Way
which transcends all ways.
> On 10/07/12 11:20, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 12:23 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
> > <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> That's something Gorbachev would recognize. Now the situation is a bit
> >> more complicated. There many more walls to bring down. And they seem
> >> to conform to the "laws of nature," which say that some animals are
> >> better than others. But a fat cat is no better than a mouse. We all
> >> protect the cats and chase the mice but that's part of a cultural
> >> bias. I have a chat here with a Buddhist follower that may be
> >> enlightening for the world. It takes place in a hypothetical
> >> Palestinian ghetto. Yes, the word has been carefully chosen.
> >>>>>> Are you always on the side of the big fish?
> >>>>> I tend to be on the happy side
> >>>>> of most schools of thought.
> >>>>>> Remember a bad karma may make you reincarnate into a small fish...
> >>>>> Exactly.
> >>>>> You tend to be on the sad side.
> >>>>> An unhappy small fish.
> >>>>> Your doing got you a ticket.
> >>>>> Your obsessive compulsions
> >>>>> lead you to do as you do.
> >>>>> With an about-face
> >>>>> you might have the behavior
> >>>>> instead of the other
> >>>>> way round.
> >>>> Another way to look at it is that people live like robots in order to
> >>>> avoid reality. That's the way people are around here. The affluent
> >>>> community next door puts a barricade on an intersection that blocks
> >>>> cars and bikes, and we live in something very similar to a Palestinian
> >>>> camp, but we can pretend to be happy.
> >>> That would be pretentious.
> >>>> Maybe even the Palestinians
> >>>> should benefit from your wisdom to ignore their sad fate.
> >>> You see their fate as sad. Me too.
> >>> But what do I know? And how do I know it?
> >>> Many of the down-trodden do feel sad.
> >>> And it is sad, when seen through sad eyes.
> >>> Rightfully so. There is plenty of bad to be had.
> >>> Extremists of the reactionary sort think
> >>> the clock ought be turned back to pastoral daze.
> >>> Do away with all modern industry. Then
> >>> there will be peace once and for all.
> >>> Each fantasy is fantastic.
> >>> Each has its limits.
> >>> There is some truth in what you point out.
> >>> There are many wrongs to right if you care to.
> >>> If you feel called to enter that arena
> >>> then that's your number
> >>> one priority.
> >>> However, if you were to take a sample of children
> >>> from the gated communities and from the walled cities,
> >>> each fenced off from some other portion of reality,
> >>> as you call it, and see how sad or happy
> >>> the little kids are, you may find that both are
> >>> as happy as little kids tend to be.
> >> I think you have raised some good point. Maybe the children of the
> >> Palestinian ghetto will be happy because they have plenty of friends --
> >> perhaps riding bikes-- while the children of Gated Communities will be
> >> alone. But when they grow up their destiny will place them on
> >> different sides of the fence. They'll look at each other and see how
> >> much they are missing. The grownup man in the Gated Community would
> >> love to ride his bike all over the place without fear. And the grownup
> >> man in the ghetto will be plotting to get what he feels is his.
> >> Isn't it time to bring down those walls? Aren't the walls the problem?
> >> What is the problem?
> > OK, it seems nobody wants to tear down those walls, but look what came
> > up in the news today. A new train goes through the middle of
> > Palestinian territories uniting people that don't like each other.
> > "for a few precious moments it seems like everyone’s in this
> > together."
> > Did I mention that barricades are going up in my community dividing
> > people? I must have forgotten. But I had a blast today on my monkey
> > bike. A bike unites people but not to the point that we smell each
> > other. I think that's what we need.
> in the future will the internet be your idea?
Yeah, the Internet is part of it, but not the whole thing. We need to
have contact with other human beings, even if we don't have to smell
them.
> TibetanMonkey wrote:
> >Did I mention that barricades are going up in my community dividing
> >people? I must have forgotten.
> You suggested streets were being blocked
> to keep through-traffic out of neighborhoods.
> Through-traffic can be very annoying
> and dangerous for little kids.
The problem is they make it safer for their kids while ignoring the
kids in the surrounding areas. They use their power --the power of
money-- to secure their own backyard and support the status quo. My
community, on the other hand, must live with drivers who laugh about
the law. Taming traffic is the answer, but the people in power don't
hear.
On top of that, the barricade has now been set up to block bicycles as
well as cars. They don't want the monkeys there.
> > But I had a blast today on my monkey
> >bike. A bike unites people but not to the point that we smell each
> >other. I think that's what we need.
> Yes. I think probably everyone
> who has been reading your messages
> knows that is how and what you think.
> A problem arises in your thinking however
> in so far as where you live is not conducive
> to how your mind tends to create walls.
> Instead of seeing all things as natural
> and accepting them for what they are
> your brain compels you to want to try
> and change the way things are.
> If you really did live in a jungle,
> full of snakes and tigers and rhino,
> you would try to make the rhino and
> the tiger and the snakes behave
> as you would wish them to.
> If you really lived in a jungle
> where the pathways were how they were
> because the jungle itself fostered those paths,
> you would never-the-less not approve.
> The jungle can be an excellent metaphor.
> Instead of trying to change the jungle
> you could simply figure out how it is
> and adjust to be in accord with it.
> On three days out of the week
> you could allow the jungle to be itself.
> On three days out of the week,
> you could try to change it to suit you.
> On one day of the week, you may
> forget about both of those ways
> and see how ways are ways
> but none are a Way
> which transcends all ways.
> Then the walls
> will have been removed.
The metaphor of the jungle suggests two solutions, and both require a
game of wits: SURVIVAL or TAME THE BEASTS.
Maybe the beasts will realize that there's life on the other side, and
that the status quo is unsustainable. Actually it leads to a mass
extinction, not unlike that of the dinosaurs.
> On Jul 10, 5:40 am, dr x<x...@x.org> wrote:
>> On 10/07/12 11:20, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>>> On Jul 9, 12:23 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
>>> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> That's something Gorbachev would recognize. Now the situation is a bit
>>>> more complicated. There many more walls to bring down. And they seem
>>>> to conform to the "laws of nature," which say that some animals are
>>>> better than others. But a fat cat is no better than a mouse. We all
>>>> protect the cats and chase the mice but that's part of a cultural
>>>> bias. I have a chat here with a Buddhist follower that may be
>>>> enlightening for the world. It takes place in a hypothetical
>>>> Palestinian ghetto. Yes, the word has been carefully chosen.
>>>>>>>> Are you always on the side of the big fish?
>>>>>>> I tend to be on the happy side
>>>>>>> of most schools of thought.
>>>>>>>> Remember a bad karma may make you reincarnate into a small fish...
>>>>>>> Exactly.
>>>>>>> You tend to be on the sad side.
>>>>>>> An unhappy small fish.
>>>>>>> Your doing got you a ticket.
>>>>>>> Your obsessive compulsions
>>>>>>> lead you to do as you do.
>>>>>>> With an about-face
>>>>>>> you might have the behavior
>>>>>>> instead of the other
>>>>>>> way round.
>>>>>> Another way to look at it is that people live like robots in order to
>>>>>> avoid reality. That's the way people are around here. The affluent
>>>>>> community next door puts a barricade on an intersection that blocks
>>>>>> cars and bikes, and we live in something very similar to a Palestinian
>>>>>> camp, but we can pretend to be happy.
>>>>> That would be pretentious.
>>>>>> Maybe even the Palestinians
>>>>>> should benefit from your wisdom to ignore their sad fate.
>>>>> You see their fate as sad. Me too.
>>>>> But what do I know? And how do I know it?
>>>>> Many of the down-trodden do feel sad.
>>>>> And it is sad, when seen through sad eyes.
>>>>> Rightfully so. There is plenty of bad to be had.
>>>>> Extremists of the reactionary sort think
>>>>> the clock ought be turned back to pastoral daze.
>>>>> Do away with all modern industry. Then
>>>>> there will be peace once and for all.
>>>>> Each fantasy is fantastic.
>>>>> Each has its limits.
>>>>> There is some truth in what you point out.
>>>>> There are many wrongs to right if you care to.
>>>>> If you feel called to enter that arena
>>>>> then that's your number
>>>>> one priority.
>>>>> However, if you were to take a sample of children
>>>>> from the gated communities and from the walled cities,
>>>>> each fenced off from some other portion of reality,
>>>>> as you call it, and see how sad or happy
>>>>> the little kids are, you may find that both are
>>>>> as happy as little kids tend to be.
>>>> I think you have raised some good point. Maybe the children of the
>>>> Palestinian ghetto will be happy because they have plenty of friends --
>>>> perhaps riding bikes-- while the children of Gated Communities will be
>>>> alone. But when they grow up their destiny will place them on
>>>> different sides of the fence. They'll look at each other and see how
>>>> much they are missing. The grownup man in the Gated Community would
>>>> love to ride his bike all over the place without fear. And the grownup
>>>> man in the ghetto will be plotting to get what he feels is his.
>>>> Isn't it time to bring down those walls? Aren't the walls the problem?
>>>> What is the problem?
>>> OK, it seems nobody wants to tear down those walls, but look what came
>>> up in the news today. A new train goes through the middle of
>>> Palestinian territories uniting people that don't like each other.
>>> "for a few precious moments it seems like everyone’s in this
>>> together."
>>> Did I mention that barricades are going up in my community dividing
>>> people? I must have forgotten. But I had a blast today on my monkey
>>> bike. A bike unites people but not to the point that we smell each
>>> other. I think that's what we need.
>> in the future will the internet be your idea?
> Yeah, the Internet is part of it, but not the whole thing. We need to
> have contact with other human beings, even if we don't have to smell
> them.
if we didn't think about them all the time we'd probably have to contact them and somehow feel into their frequencies.. share the walls they appear to be concealed inside. double the make believe!
> On 10/07/12 23:19, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 5:40 am, dr x<x...@x.org> wrote:
> >> On 10/07/12 11:20, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
> >>> On Jul 9, 12:23 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
> >>> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> That's something Gorbachev would recognize. Now the situation is a bit
> >>>> more complicated. There many more walls to bring down. And they seem
> >>>> to conform to the "laws of nature," which say that some animals are
> >>>> better than others. But a fat cat is no better than a mouse. We all
> >>>> protect the cats and chase the mice but that's part of a cultural
> >>>> bias. I have a chat here with a Buddhist follower that may be
> >>>> enlightening for the world. It takes place in a hypothetical
> >>>> Palestinian ghetto. Yes, the word has been carefully chosen.
> >>>>>>>> Are you always on the side of the big fish?
> >>>>>>> I tend to be on the happy side
> >>>>>>> of most schools of thought.
> >>>>>>>> Remember a bad karma may make you reincarnate into a small fish...
> >>>>>>> Exactly.
> >>>>>>> You tend to be on the sad side.
> >>>>>>> An unhappy small fish.
> >>>>>>> Your doing got you a ticket.
> >>>>>>> Your obsessive compulsions
> >>>>>>> lead you to do as you do.
> >>>>>>> With an about-face
> >>>>>>> you might have the behavior
> >>>>>>> instead of the other
> >>>>>>> way round.
> >>>>>> Another way to look at it is that people live like robots in order to
> >>>>>> avoid reality. That's the way people are around here. The affluent
> >>>>>> community next door puts a barricade on an intersection that blocks
> >>>>>> cars and bikes, and we live in something very similar to a Palestinian
> >>>>>> camp, but we can pretend to be happy.
> >>>>> That would be pretentious.
> >>>>>> Maybe even the Palestinians
> >>>>>> should benefit from your wisdom to ignore their sad fate.
> >>>>> You see their fate as sad. Me too.
> >>>>> But what do I know? And how do I know it?
> >>>>> Many of the down-trodden do feel sad.
> >>>>> And it is sad, when seen through sad eyes.
> >>>>> Rightfully so. There is plenty of bad to be had.
> >>>>> Extremists of the reactionary sort think
> >>>>> the clock ought be turned back to pastoral daze.
> >>>>> Do away with all modern industry. Then
> >>>>> there will be peace once and for all.
> >>>>> Each fantasy is fantastic.
> >>>>> Each has its limits.
> >>>>> There is some truth in what you point out.
> >>>>> There are many wrongs to right if you care to.
> >>>>> If you feel called to enter that arena
> >>>>> then that's your number
> >>>>> one priority.
> >>>>> However, if you were to take a sample of children
> >>>>> from the gated communities and from the walled cities,
> >>>>> each fenced off from some other portion of reality,
> >>>>> as you call it, and see how sad or happy
> >>>>> the little kids are, you may find that both are
> >>>>> as happy as little kids tend to be.
> >>>> I think you have raised some good point. Maybe the children of the
> >>>> Palestinian ghetto will be happy because they have plenty of friends --
> >>>> perhaps riding bikes-- while the children of Gated Communities will be
> >>>> alone. But when they grow up their destiny will place them on
> >>>> different sides of the fence. They'll look at each other and see how
> >>>> much they are missing. The grownup man in the Gated Community would
> >>>> love to ride his bike all over the place without fear. And the grownup
> >>>> man in the ghetto will be plotting to get what he feels is his.
> >>>> Isn't it time to bring down those walls? Aren't the walls the problem?
> >>>> What is the problem?
> >>> OK, it seems nobody wants to tear down those walls, but look what came
> >>> up in the news today. A new train goes through the middle of
> >>> Palestinian territories uniting people that don't like each other.
> >>> "for a few precious moments it seems like everyone’s in this
> >>> together."
> >>> Did I mention that barricades are going up in my community dividing
> >>> people? I must have forgotten. But I had a blast today on my monkey
> >>> bike. A bike unites people but not to the point that we smell each
> >>> other. I think that's what we need.
> >> in the future will the internet be your idea?
> > Yeah, the Internet is part of it, but not the whole thing. We need to
> > have contact with other human beings, even if we don't have to smell
> > them.
> if we didn't think about them all the time we'd probably have to contact
> them and somehow feel into their frequencies.. share the walls they
> appear to be concealed inside. double the make believe!
OK, let me put it this way: How many participants here are from inside
the walls and how many from outside?
Does your point of view change according to your relative position? I
think so but I may be wrong.
