What's your best picture of Heaven?

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

I had a bad dream last night, call it a "revelation" if you will, but
it gave me a taste of life up there:

"You are blindfolded and an angel is tickling your feet with his/her
feathers. The blindfold is used so you don't know the sex of the
angel. It's supposed to be pure bliss."

Hey, this goes on forever, so you beg him/her to stop. And he/she
doesn't answer. I've never seen an angel so stupid. Then he/she straps
you to the bed and goes on...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

[Wet Paper Bag]

On May 8, 7:02 am, "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble

no sense in telling yourself you do not love it... it is after all
heaven...

Lucifer

[i2i]

"His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher" wrote in
message
news:bd833ee7-9679-44a2...@z8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

I had a bad dream last night, call it a "revelation" if you will, but
it gave me a taste of life up there:

"You are blindfolded and an angel is tickling your feet with his/her
feathers. The blindfold is used so you don't know the sex of the
angel. It's supposed to be pure bliss."

Hey, this goes on forever, so you beg him/her to stop. And he/she
doesn't answer. I've never seen an angel so stupid. Then he/she straps
you to the bed and goes on...

==================\\

one man's heaven can
be another man's hell

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

On May 8, 10:44 am, "i2i" <boo...@netzero.net> wrote:
> "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher"  wrote in

> messagenews:bd833ee7-9679-44a2...@z8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

>
> I had a bad dream last night, call it a "revelation" if you will, but
> it gave me a taste of life up there:
>
> "You are blindfolded and an angel is tickling your feet with his/her
> feathers. The blindfold is used so you don't know the sex of the
> angel. It's supposed to be pure bliss."
>
> Hey, this goes on forever, so you beg him/her to stop. And he/she
> doesn't answer. I've never seen an angel so stupid. Then he/she straps
> you to the bed and goes on...
>
> ==================\\
>
> one man's heaven can
> be another man's hell

It's the sense of not having choices that worries me. Either Heaven or
go to Hell.

[Tim]

On 8 May, 11:38, "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble

Philosopher" <thetibetanmon...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's the sense of not having choices that worries me. Either Heaven or
> go to Hell.

worry? you? now i know you are joking.

ever notice that when the shit comes down, real devastating disaster
stuff... that the jungle species do not kill each other for
resources... they do not have democracy... what is, is and so many
smaller species are responsible for the survival of larger species...
not as food sources... oh wait... that is distinctly human...

that is so lame... heaven or hell... what if heaven is simply a golden
age... and hell... well... i guess the whole of the meditation
practice goes... can you imagine even a corner of heaven without first
thinking of here. isn't heaven all the good stuff? but to reject here
is to reject all of it leaving you with no heaven to even consider
much less accept then as being real.

no one wants to go to hell monkey. and those that are... know it and
thus, from here, masks... like that democracy model... again,
political root is rhetoric... there is nothing competitive enough
about selling people what they need to sustain their lives and live
happily... it doesn't sell... it is more like knowing you would not
smash your hand with a hammer for real... then talking you into it by
suggesting it is for your own good... that is what politics is
about... because in hell, the point is you do not get to do what you
want...

it would be like saying "hey brad, i have an idea,".. why don't we put
a foot or two of potash on those fields and soak up all the water...
and he would be like... "good idea... and it works like fertilizer...
and salt makes food taste better"... so you see, by the unfortunte
weakness of the political being, it is easy enough to take
advantage... who wants to go to disneyland for christmas!... we will
worry about that later!... which is the case to the point... i am from
later and i say fuck later... now.

you see, formula, with the missing ingredient... since satan is from
100 years from now, having taken my life... is now firmly deposited in
this world due to a very sucessful exorcism... he and i are not what
is active... you see, anna... death... and rachael... the devil... are
not born yet. do you understand the timing of this magick? further, i
do not know what happens to anna... she and i performed the isis
ritual in the astral, which, incidently is what resulted in the son of
man to be born here in this time... since anna and rachael represent a
solid tangle touch object to satan... they are real... touch is why
you know it... all the rest is astral... but to me, they occupy my
boddy but we only engage as astral being... i have to enter dharma-
consciousness to experience them...

but theoretically... since anna and rachale are my mentors... i do not
know what it means if... since they are real to satan, and but very
lucid dreams to me, if, being that they are not yet incarnate... if
they know if they are real or not... so you see, even here, i have
questions and gray areas...

and yet, being that it is hell by philosophical definiion... here is
where everything is that you would say is the good stuff... and you,
thus, thinking... thinking... can not do whatever you want... i mean,
you can right? jump.

but on the lighter side of hell monkey, is it not those very same Laws
that apply to everyone and every thing?... then you were born with
faith yes? and this place has dimmed that light right?... and there is
nothing in the Laws that say anything about what you can and can not
do... perhaps the Way is in there then yes?... there is no judge.
there is no decider.

Hell, monkey... is a level playing field.

Lucifer

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

So, do you estimate that Satan is ultimately responsible for
everything or you think he has his agents in the oil and bank
industries?

Is Satan working alone? I don't think so. He got a whole army working
for him. Every time we drive we feed him. When we walk God is happy
and will give us a reward, perhaps a banana. Do you know that people
in Africa are dying from hunger while we die from obesity?

That's some real good and evil. Fit vs. Fat.

[i2i]

"His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher" wrote in
message

news:232dc6e0-b35e-42da...@w8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

there's always limbo but then
you gotta learn how to dance.

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

On May 8, 4:19 pm, "i2i" <boo...@netzero.net> wrote:
> "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher"  wrote in

> messagenews:232dc6e0-b35e-42da...@w8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

Cha Cha or Tango?

It takes two to tango.

[i2i]

"His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher" wrote in
message

news:b88cfe0a-4b07-4b94...@o2g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

limbo. under the stick.
you have to walk bent
backwards and go under
the stick without touching
it or touching the ground
with your hands.

why religions have deemed
this as the only alternative
to heaven or hell is beyond
me.

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

On May 8, 7:40 pm, "i2i" <boo...@netzero.net> wrote:
> "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher"  wrote in

> messagenews:b88cfe0a-4b07-4b94...@o2g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

By joining a religion there's a 1 in 100,000 chances of making it, but
then what. What is Heaven all about?

I've never seen a detailed description. Perhaps it's like Disney. The
Christian Right gets free admission.

[Tim]

On 8 May, 13:47, "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble

no. i mean think about it monkey... ignorance. first life ignorance.
no one wants to learn because you are told that no one knows... and
there comes a time when you will believe it... you must believe it
else the future looks bleak...

you portray the devil to be some reckless retard... the devil is not
behind any of it... consider the death and the devil model... the
devil does not say he can change the conditions of the Law... he only
mocks the absurdity of the action. jump and it is all yours...
including 72 virgins... but whatever it is... it is over there... not
here. and yet, where did the idea come from?

that is the corporation. an invented entity to relieve losers and Jews
of responsibility... and to trick you into believing that there is no
one responsible... and you believe them... can't hit sasktel... but
you may torture orest see?...

like the current library crisis of network... they deserve it... the
new format went into effect well over a year ago... the previous
format had the whole ball of wax... reservations and when you logged
in on a reserved computer it would tell you a priori that it was
reserved at X:xx... then asked if you wish to continue... then it
would give you the balance of the time remaining... but now,... you
see? a social experiment... designed to piss people off, to cause
problems that lead out into the street... or the webmaster lied... and
the best part? the library wenches then hol dthe power to say who they
will log in and not since once in and booted you must wait an hour...
but has not enough time passed to see and fix?... so they wonder...
why didn't our union bid get recognized... because you do not deserve
it... you are shit disturbers... and it is intentional...

so... tat... for this afternoons fuck up...

> Is Satan working alone? I don't think so. He got a whole army working
> for him. Every time we drive we feed him. When we walk God is happy
> and will give us a reward, perhaps a banana. Do you know that people
> in Africa are dying from hunger while we die from obesity?

drive and feed? sure... but again, you hate the devil because i am
right... and the more you are wrong, the more you shroud me in
darkness, the brighter i become... so what is there to do? working
with an army? i doubt it... it is like when i tell you what it is...
you want to be a hero... so then i encourage your quest. a lie? no. i
told you the truth. and by some first life knowledge, you simply can
not accept what it is... so i give you hope... to compund karma... as
you can see $1.27 for gas... floods, late seeding... and rains... you
can not change those conditions... so the rest of this is nothin gmore
than tallying up... we can not afford to have Jews around in the times
to come... that simple...

i told you what happens to anna and rachael... but you do not want to
believe... the second i said satan was exorcised, all these losers and
posers show up and try to play the game... hilarious!... and now look
around you... see all the annas and rachaels?... who are they trying
to fool? me and the girls?...

it does not matter what the parthenon is... when you set the titles,
descriptions and correspondences... every one wants a way out...
everyone wants someone new to pretend to be and thus... no advancement
on the way... and what is it i said i am doing rather than spilling
the beans?... but since you do not know what it is, you do not know...
any dressed up whore will do...

so, the first attack, the only one that matters, reduced me to this...
a welfare bum... that is why i share with you stuff that makes you
smarter than a univeristy... and then say guess who got the job... and
you say there is no reason why he should nohave that job, think of all
the people he could help... but that is the point i am making... and
now, each year, there is still nothing decided yet since the promised
jenna letter is already passed due... they are going to try and
redefine me again... i did not resist before and i will not resist
what is next... tramua and i am prepared to do a lot of damage... the
case is already public...

and so what? i need to die to reach the astral making the union the
new reality... and if not, as i said, the collapse into me... prison?
institutionaize?... but what will it change monkey? the Laws are as
they are... i am merely setting the example for the first lifers who
have yet to cross my path...

things yoiu can change monkey, they are only trying to preserve their
pathetic lives which they hate by imagining some greater power than
God... but does it take anything away from what I am? of course not
just as nothing is taken away from what they are...

as for africa... the latest stats i heard was 200,000 died of hunger
when the resources were readily available... over half were
children...

> That's some real good and evil. Fit vs. Fat.

yes monkey, but we all know what happens to fat in the jungle...

Lucifer

[Tim]

On 8 May, 17:40, "i2i" <boo...@netzero.net> wrote:
> "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher"  wrote in

> messagenews:b88cfe0a-4b07-4b94...@o2g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

limbo and pergatory are nothin gmore than fiction slike heaven and
hell reserved only for fuckers like bush who knows what he is waiting
for and has seen enough to know it is true... else it is a game that
if you bend into that bardo... you will be consumed...

Lucifer

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

Like I said, it takes two to tango. Heaven and Hell, God and Satan.

They have been dancing this tango forever...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TNzCiy8iaY

Maybe God and Satan are brothers. They can't defeat each other and
receive all the blame. It's all about PR. Even Big Oil and Big Tobacco
invest in PR.

[i2i]

"His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher" wrote in
message

news:70f2e1af-ab72-4be5...@s18g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...

========================\\

I think heaven has free cable.
god's a compassionate guy
doncha know.

[Wet Paper Bag]

On May 8, 7:11 pm, "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble

Philosopher" <thetibetanmon...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Like I said, it takes two to tango. Heaven and Hell, God and Satan.

and like i said... there is a Law that drops a sword... half of the
black and white jelly beans go one way... the other half go the other
way... all on that side say God is just... and on the other... the
Devil...

> They have been dancing this tango forever...

no... as a man of the jungle you would have known that... the same as
the true satan answered... you are welcome...

> Maybe God and Satan are brothers. They can't defeat each other and
> receive all the blame. It's all about PR. Even Big Oil and Big Tobacco
> invest in PR.

or maybe they are the same thing... depends...

after all... if you want to boil it down and take it literally...

"religion is terrorism..."

how much of this is about religion?

how much could we repair without it?

how many do what they do to be or please me?

how many people do what they do to avoid hell?

and as far as that doctrine goes... it is from each and every one of
your births...

abolish it... or reap its roots.

Lucifer

[x]

we need everything to enjoy anything.

[x]

On Wed, 08 May 2013 10:38:38 -0700, His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey,
Most Humble Philosopher wrote:

> On May 8, 10:44 am, "i2i" <boo...@netzero.net> wrote:
>> "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher"  wrote
>> in

>> messagenews:bd833ee7-9679-44a2-9eb3-
ef4d85...@z8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

>>
>> I had a bad dream last night, call it a "revelation" if you will, but
>> it gave me a taste of life up there:
>>
>> "You are blindfolded and an angel is tickling your feet with his/her
>> feathers. The blindfold is used so you don't know the sex of the angel.
>> It's supposed to be pure bliss."
>>
>> Hey, this goes on forever, so you beg him/her to stop. And he/she
>> doesn't answer. I've never seen an angel so stupid. Then he/she straps
>> you to the bed and goes on...
>>
>> ==================\\
>>
>> one man's heaven can be another man's hell
>
> It's the sense of not having choices that worries me. Either Heaven or
> go to Hell.

well if you die with only two possibilities obsessing your mind you
probably won't see any options beyond those two.

i see a spectrum of mind-energy layers experienced through many
frameworks usually defined by religious models of nonphysical... however
there are probably many other interesting possibilities now days.

i think it's wisest to die open to the unknown for more possibilities...

[x]

On Wed, 08 May 2013 19:40:54 -0400, i2i wrote:

> "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher" wrote in
> message
> news:b88cfe0a-4b07-4b94...@o2g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> On May 8, 4:19 pm, "i2i" <boo...@netzero.net> wrote:
>> "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher" wrote
>> in

>> messagenews:232dc6e0-b35e-42da-8f4c-
fc630e...@w8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

>>
>> On May 8, 10:44 am, "i2i" <boo...@netzero.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher" wrote
>> > in

>> > messagenews:bd833ee7-9679-44a2-9eb3-
ef4d85...@z8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

>>
>> > I had a bad dream last night, call it a "revelation" if you will, but
>> > it gave me a taste of life up there:
>>
>> > "You are blindfolded and an angel is tickling your feet with his/her
>> > feathers. The blindfold is used so you don't know the sex of the
>> > angel. It's supposed to be pure bliss."
>>
>> > Hey, this goes on forever, so you beg him/her to stop. And he/she
>> > doesn't answer. I've never seen an angel so stupid. Then he/she
>> > straps you to the bed and goes on...
>>
>> > ==================\\
>>
>> > one man's heaven can be another man's hell
>> >It's the sense of not having choices that worries me. Either Heaven or
>> >go to Hell.
>>
>> there's always limbo but then you gotta learn how to dance.
>
>>Cha Cha or Tango?
>
>>It takes two to tango.
>
>
> limbo. under the stick.
> you have to walk bent backwards and go under the stick without touching
> it or touching the ground with your hands.
>
> why religions have deemed this as the only alternative to heaven or hell
> is beyond me.

limited vertical space.

[being]

"i2i" wrote:

>By joining a religion there's a 1 in 100,000 chances of making it, but
>then what. What is Heaven all about?
>
>I've never seen a detailed description. Perhaps it's like Disney. The
>Christian Right gets free admission.
>
>========================\\
>
>I think heaven has free cable.
>god's a compassionate guy
>doncha know.

Channels vary.
Shows vary.

A detail to be filled in is a way
in which one writes one's own
and then owns what one writes.

All of one's actions are preserved.
All of one's thoughts, recorded.
Akasha has a silver lining.

Creating good memories is advised,
as akin to treasure buried
in one's chest.

If one feels guilty
about one's doings while residing
in the Earth-plane of consciousness
then it can be a form of living hell.

Various religions have methods, dao,
for getting beyond such a gate.

Amitabha rests in the Pure Land.
Straight is the fontanelle, diamond
shaped, and narrow its anterior.

For physicalists now, a metaphor.
For those who live there, a reality.

Among all people
hidden in plain sight
for those who might
sea waves curled up
in many dimensions.

Singularities hold keys
to legends of the maps.

- six of one

[Tim]

my best picture of heaven was the day i realized that if you love
something... set it free...

so i gave it all my love away...

now i have no heart...

God

[Wet Paper Bag]

> >doncha know.

yes i do know.

i know there are karmas that are fructified.

i know there are many, many more to be fructified.

i know why am am saving some trees for last.

i know you are not me.

brenda told me to talk to her computer... i did brenda and it
crashed... shall i talk to you to? brrrr....

Lucifer

[x]

On Thu, 09 May 2013 05:37:54 -0700, being wrote:

> "i2i" wrote:
>
>>By joining a religion there's a 1 in 100,000 chances of making it, but
>>then what. What is Heaven all about?
>>
>>I've never seen a detailed description. Perhaps it's like Disney. The
>>Christian Right gets free admission.
>>
>>========================\\
>>
>>I think heaven has free cable.
>>god's a compassionate guy doncha know.
>
> Channels vary.
> Shows vary.
>
> A detail to be filled in is a way in which one writes one's own and then
> owns what one writes.
>
> All of one's actions are preserved. All of one's thoughts, recorded.
> Akasha has a silver lining.
>
> Creating good memories is advised, as akin to treasure buried in one's
> chest.
>
> If one feels guilty about one's doings while residing in the Earth-plane
> of consciousness then it can be a form of living hell.

so being in hell is more the result of having moral virtue than sinning...

i hope it's nothing eternal or anything...

[Tim]

... sorry gents... here is that link... definitely has viral
potential...

http://gothicarts.org/

so what do you think kaine? with a slightly different center... can
you see it now?... how does it look to your old eyes?... is the shit
as tastey now? you have a nug of snot there... hanging from your
nose... i tried to tell you... you didn't want my help, did the
opposite... but let's say ohhhh... do you think we all conspired? and
there you were... hey baby, licking your lips... want some of this
demon action?... but if we lol... you would have said.. what? what?
what?...

good old bill... is it begging yes? but rather than harm you, i
suffered you to see it... now that you see it, as i proposed, where do
you think the change should happen... both is an option...

for an ass kicking? you would be my first choice to fuck the fuck out
of the guy who leeches reserve resources... fishes yes... but oddly,
they, unlike his story, never made it back to the elders... and they
all showed signs of hunger... you really do not want to be that guy
since the chief found out...

nome... i think you might have a piece here out of order... a quick
adjustment... you may not even feel it... as for that degrees and so
forth... as you saw... the standard sol symbol presents the necessary
depth rather than a left to right or right to let or up and down or
down and up grades, scales etc...

the secret is the one thing first... hold up that one thing to the
Light... from that one thing... yes, there are degrees of hotter and
colder... gooder and eviler... and so on... but without that one thing
you see... that is a problem that denies isness, the fundamental unit
of the thing in and of itself... from which all other scales
diverge...

a quick review of chapter 1 of hinton's fourth diemension should do
the trick... a sword.

the Other Grimm

[Tim]

On May 9, 7:11 am, x <x...@x.org> wrote:

<bow>... thank you x... i hate reviewing poetry first thing thursday
morning... makes me all hoppy and skippy and gay... hahaha...

hell was wild x... the default... it was the inspiration to a wish
that carried forward to a dream... heaven... and a God... who could
deliver... since it was out of any mortal man's reach...

i do not know any jungle rhythms but i do know the smell of pine and
cedar and the wild things they contain... there is no signal of course
so they just sit there...

now... they say... now or never... do it now... unfortunately that is
how heaven works mother fucker... and you are not there yet... jump
for now. please... please... don't jump and suffer...

Lucifer

[i2i]

"x" wrote in message news:SK2dnexUwqOk7BbM...@giganews.com...

I brake for roadkill gurus

[i2i]

"Tim" wrote in message
news:42ea4803-c92e-4559...@r3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

========================\\

the bardo limbo ? everybody dance now !

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

On May 9, 6:06 am, x <x...@x.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 May 2013 10:38:38 -0700, His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey,
>
> Most Humble Philosopher wrote:
> > On May 8, 10:44 am, "i2i" <boo...@netzero.net> wrote:
> >> "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher"  wrote
> >> in
> >> messagenews:bd833ee7-9679-44a2-9eb3-
>

> ef4d85741...@z8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> I had a bad dream last night, call it a "revelation" if you will, but
> >> it gave me a taste of life up there:
>
> >> "You are blindfolded and an angel is tickling your feet with his/her
> >> feathers. The blindfold is used so you don't know the sex of the angel.
> >> It's supposed to be pure bliss."
>
> >> Hey, this goes on forever, so you beg him/her to stop. And he/she
> >> doesn't answer. I've never seen an angel so stupid. Then he/she straps
> >> you to the bed and goes on...
>
> >> ==================\\
>
> >> one man's heaven can be another man's hell
>
> > It's the sense of not having choices that worries me. Either Heaven or
> > go to Hell.
>
> well if you die with only two possibilities obsessing your mind you
> probably won't see any options beyond those two.
>
> i see a spectrum of mind-energy layers experienced through many
> frameworks usually defined by religious models of nonphysical... however
> there are probably many other interesting possibilities now days.
>
> i think it's wisest to die open to the unknown for more possibilities...

Yeah, maybe you become a star. That's a comforting thought.

The more you shine in this life the more you shine in the other.

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

On May 9, 5:47 am, Malcolm McMahon <malcolm.m...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> On Wednesday, 8 May 2013 13:58:24 UTC+1, His Higness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher wrote:
>
> You are doing your reasoning with a mind evolved to manage a life on Earth. Any state genuinely different is, therefore, literally beyond your imagination. Therefore the only _imaginable_ afterlife is re-incarnation. (Which, I believe, is still what the majority of believers in afterlives believe in).
>
> It's therefore pointless to speculate about other possibilities, since other possibilities are probably beyond our powers of speculation, except it terms so abstract as to be meaningless.
>
> Wait and see.

OK, say you become a cow and they milk you and they take you to the
slaughterhouse. Not a comforting thought. I have a comforting thought
that we become a star. It has plenty of energy to spare. When you
share with a woman in a Tantric way, isn't ENERGY the key element?

This very act above creates life and... (that's not a subject for
Philosophy 101).

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

On May 8, 8:49 pm, High Plains Thumper <h...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey wrote:
>
> > TibetanMonkey wrote:
>
> >> Hey, it's a place for the beautiful people [snip]
>
> >> A picture of Paradise...
>
> > IF THE ABOVE IS A PICTURE OF PARADISE, THIS IS A PICTURE OF HEAVEN:
>
> No one has ever gone there are returned. Probably the closest thing in a
> secular sense would be:
>
> Vengaboys- We're going to Ibiza
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zno2gtU7LaE

Going to Ibiza and eat pizza? Yeah, there's plenty of 7 Elevens in
Heaven. Diet Coke and everything.

>
> 'But as Scripture says: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind
> has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."'
> 1 Corinthians 2:9 (God's Word version)

Sincerely, we don't have a clue. ;)

[Tim]

On 9 May, 08:35, "i2i" <boo...@netzero.net> wrote:

> the bardo limbo ? everybody dance now !

hahaha... sooooo... that would be worse then yes?... you are
learning... true... you do not know me and thus you do not know the
difference... push pull... egolessness taking a hit... so easy to be
wrong... but the question remains why you are blind... why for the
first time, i allowed you to see how truely pathetic and immature the
game is on bill and yet, you fail to see or believe perhaps, that you
look exactly the same in those garments... explains a lot about where
a vanity freak such as your self is where they are yes? or is your
beauty a curse to? i sure hope you did not build an entire philosophy
on that tradgic error bill... think of how hard you have fought and
how many enemies you have made to be right...

like... you know... every device against you yes? and as i know from
experience, as soon as the Jew gets what he thinks he wants... he
tries to cut the giver out of the deal and take the effect... i
thought i just finished sharing that lesson with you using brenda as
the example... i mean brenda, it was easy to be patient... as soon as
i tried to log in i sent a signal through "your computer" (hahaha)...
and then their computer, who ever they might be, by-passed your
computer, reset the signal and let me up... but in the meantime damage
yes? i am getting louder yes?

i have no idea why you call it hope coming from me... you declared war
on me... but it is better than facing reality which is, i suppose,
also wrong...

do not think of it like me helping you... if you want to help
yourselves, those pacts will be fulfilled with or without you... but
again, by my hand so do not get any brownie point ideas in your head
that you are doing anyone a favour by taking my justice into your own
hands... think of it more like a lion with his jaws firmly set into a
weaker species... suffocate until limp... give a little air... dig
grip in... suffocate until limp... give a little air... dig grip in...
it is a classic jungle recipe for tenderizing your meat...

beauty will be marked with ugliness jenna and strength will be reduced
to weakness... then you will live freely in the world you created with
those whom you have destroyed... sounds like Hell to me but again,
nothing but imagination... so...<whack>... the gavel comes down... the
german holocaust was a hoax... dismissed...

have your scientist figured the effect out yet? that at this late
stage in the plaque of famine... every day i take from you is two more
days of infertility...

do you think this is neverland Jew? then i shall give you some more
examples so we can all watch you clapping your hands...

Lucifer

[Tim]

On 9 May, 08:52, "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble

Philosopher" <thetibetanmon...@gmail.com> wrote:

> OK, say you become a cow and they milk you and they take you to the
> slaughterhouse. Not a comforting thought. I have a comforting thought
> that we become a star. It has plenty of energy to spare. When you
> share with a woman in a Tantric way, isn't ENERGY the key element?

hahaha... monkey... no. fire is energy... a combination of the other
three elements... but not the spark... you like cows do you? then
consider a genetic cloned piece of meat... i sit the same thing having
never known or possessed the element of life? are you not what you
eat?

> This very act above creates life and... (that's not a subject for
> Philosophy 101).

hahaha... you are so stupid...

Lucifer

[x]

On Thu, 09 May 2013 07:41:10 -0700, His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey,

sometimes it does feel like the light of our innermost soul aspects is
separated from everything by the body/ego mask in life, in the death of
the body maybe the ego lightens up and light flows outward.

mothers, lovers and children show a glimmer of this in life.

[Wet Paper Bag]

fuck i hate poetry thursday... damn they got x too... i am on my
own...

so let me ask you bill... what have you taken from the house, what has
the house afforded you all these years?... so perhaps you, bill, you
should show some respect... as far as i remember bill, you are a sick
pathetic wet bellied kitten mewing for someone to share a smoke with
you... and yet, when you get a smoke... heaven forbid the fool that is
forced to beg... material is not power bill and although crowley
rightly points out its redemptional value... there is a limit... i
will take your smoke with gratitude and smash your teeth out with a
bat tomorrow... proof?

today... how many chin ups you can do... do another one bill...
hahaha... naahhhh... you jumped... do another one... c'mon bill, your
arms are starting at 90 degrees... do another one... bill, not again,
leave the pack off... you said you could do three... hahaha... let's
see you do that first... hahaha... a little stiff today yes?...

blacksmith? nice... "a peanut bill, catch it with your mouth"...
hahaha... that was pretty funny, i think i am finally starting to get
you... i was betting donnie bill would have a shit fit because he
couldn't find the peanut... i almost lost... and blocking his view of
the screen with that big fat head of yours?... priceless... and mr.
able... i am impressed... nice reversal... but next time, pull back
the throttle after the hit to create that anticipation, reaction then,
being nothing there, he falls forward into it... then put the boots to
him...

so why do you forget? i can explain it for you...

you are on a path from a to b... for most, Jews, this path is
external... like, going east across the university bridge... look
there... see that erosion? see the way feet of land are lost every
year?... that was a U of S engineer, the best the city could afford,
that said maybe if we take out all the trees it will stop the errosion
that will destroy one of the prime real estate zones in the city...
and look kids... regina took the lead.. tuitions are up... big time...
but are you really getting all the educational bang for your buck?...
or just the glee club alumni whose only contribution is unity in
purpose... hey, sometimes it is worth it just to get the tee-shirt...
go team...

anyway... so there you are going a to b... then someone else,
somewhere else, on a different path "from" a is also going to b...
anyway, i did change the future... only the sleeping arrangements...

like that motor cycle gang stuff... hey kaine, what can i say... i
know you think you are... but that is simply not true as, obviously...
but do not fear using it as a threat... i mean like i said, you know
how much ex-military bikers (and cops too!) belonging to gangs love
having attention drawn to their activities... and unlike Jews, they
say... hey jack, who is the hit... tim? harris?... and they check
around... now you have drawn attention to yourself... what are my
colours?... no gang... what is turf without people... power to the
people!

Lucifer

[being]

x wrote:
> being wrote:
>> "i2i" wrote:
>>
>>>> ... What is Heaven all about?
>>>>
>>>> I've never seen a detailed description. ...

>>>
>>>I think heaven has free cable.
>>>god's a compassionate guy doncha know.
>>
>> Channels vary.
>> Shows vary.
>>
>> A detail to be filled in is a way
>> in which one writes one's own
>> and then owns what one writes.
>>
>> All of one's actions are preserved.
>> All of one's thoughts, recorded.
>> Akasha has a silver lining.
>>
>> Creating good memories is advised,
>> as akin to treasure buried in one's chest.
>>
>> If one feels guilty
>> about one's doings
>> while residing in the Earth-plane
>> of consciousness then it can be a form of living hell.
>
>so being in hell is more the result of having moral virtue than sinning...

To sin
can mean
to miss the bull's-eye.

To repent
might connote
doing an about-face.

Condemnation
may occur when one buys
in to forms of guilt and feeling guilty.

One could then sentence oneself
when the Face of the judge appears.

>i hope it's nothing eternal or anything...

Now tends to be eternal.

The present
which continually unfolds.

For some, a gift
that keeps on giving.

For some, a gift
that keeps on taking.

At times
the Book of Life is open.

At times the case is closed.

Heaven can be all about
what is within or among
those who dwell up on
such a paradigm.

Many descriptions are to be found
when one has an eye able to.
Sea waves are not other
than a notion.

An ocean of Being exists.

Many prefer Nonbeing.

As if such ideas are other
then reification sets sail
for the Pure Land.

If one is interested,
which is doubtful, one might begin
to explore via cyber-space:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loka

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyaloka

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_36_tattvas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prakasa

http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap43.php

Trolls might be found in Heaven.
If it's a Troll Heaven.

Creating treasures of one's own.

Caveat Emptor

[Wet Paper Bag]

On 9 May, 18:14, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> Trolls might be found in Heaven.
> If it's a Troll Heaven.
>
> Creating treasures of one's own.
>
> Caveat Emptor

omg... that is so fucking bad man... where is the evidence?... i sent
you with medicine.

fuck... we need to do something!

i think we have to stop looking at polical states as being empires...
communism... the eviction of religion... we would immediately be able
to open up all that space and get a better balance for the people...
plus, all that tax free wealth would go a long way to easing
tensions... no, i am not saying forever... i am saying for a time.

but that does not mean that i must agree with the other side of
communism, the exploitation of the poor... keeping people, producers,
poor...

capitalism feeds on it...

but no, muslim, no christian, no jew, no beef... that does not mean
you have to stop being those things... a personal responsibility and
God entering a more sacred space in your home... as a consession
however, there is no need to congregate any longer. these are personal
things. raise your childrebn wisely and they will become the best of
every belief...

Lucifer

[being]

Wet Paper Bag wrote:

> where is the evidence?

http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap43.php

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16%3A31&version=NIV

Science can be a method.

Experiences might be experienced.

"For those having had an experience
no explanation is necessary.

For those not having had an experience
no explanation is possible."

Physical/material consciousness is a form.
For some people, that is all there is.

One may speak of Zen,
or of some other form,
but such speaking
could fall short
for lack of evidence.

Mystical experiences
could be claimed to be
reality or illusion or delusion.

Everyday experiences
could be claimed to be
reality or illusion or delusion.

Some people actually think
and feel as if they have free-will.

Others might view such thinking
and feeling as if it's all brain-farts.

Words have meanings.
Many carry baggage.

Some people have ties.
Some ideas may suit
their cases.

Some are open.
Some are shut.

Some say
there is no case
and no reason for ties.

Words are akin to nets.

After a butterfly is captured
the net may be set aside.

Some collectors pin their wings.
No matter if it kills them.

When a caterpillar is ready
the Universe may spin

- a round

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

On May 9, 11:29 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

<thetibetanmon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 8, 8:49 pm, High Plains Thumper <h...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey wrote:
>
> > > TibetanMonkey wrote:
>
> > >> Hey, it's a place for the beautiful people [snip]
>
> > >> A picture of Paradise...
>
> > > IF THE ABOVE IS A PICTURE OF PARADISE, THIS IS A PICTURE OF HEAVEN:
>
> > No one has ever gone there are returned. Probably the closest thing in a
> > secular sense would be:
>
> > Vengaboys- We're going to Ibiza
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zno2gtU7LaE
>
> Going to Ibiza and eat pizza? Yeah, there's plenty of 7 Elevens in
> Heaven. Diet Coke and everything.

Here's a mnemonic trick to remember:

"There's 7 Eleven in Heaven and Taco Bell in Hell"

Yes, you may find some of the American diet Christians are familiar
with in Heaven --such as Diet Coke and chips-- but no meat. That's why
you have Taco Bell in Hell. God can not possible tolerate sacrificing
animals to feed people, and anyone who ever tried meat won't make it
to Heaven.

But Hell doesn't deserve all the bad reputation it's being getting.
Heaven, on the other hand, is just like a Gated Community, select and
boring.

[Wet Paper Bag]

On May 10, 6:27 am, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> Wet Paper Bag wrote:
> > where is the evidence?

i will give you some...

<snip> those links are someone else's experience.

> Science can be a method.

what else can science be? are there methods other than science?

> Experiences might be experienced.

no... experienced are experienced... correct perception might be

experienced.

> "For those having had an experience
> no explanation is necessary.

really? what just happened... tim is obviously running on a level opf
destruction that is unstoppable, untouchable, at his command and he
continues to escalate... he is going to kill you... but do you stop?
what is his completely unfair and unjust, unreasonable demand?... what
does he order people to do and what does he demand in return?... guess
you do not have that experience and yet who is explaining who?

> For those not having had an experience
> no explanation is possible."

now i know you are joking... who else talks of this other than those
with the experience?

> Physical/material consciousness is a form.
> For some people, that is all there is.

yes, perhaps, humans are stupid... quantum physics is the science
based on the conscious perception of ones physical/material and how it
works, the physics of how you perceive things... applied to general
relativity, the way things are before they are perceived... would you
suggest that you are not perceiving anything Jew?

> One may speak of Zen,
> or of some other form,
> but such speaking
> could fall short
> for lack of evidence.

not really... zen is from a non-mystical society... ever thought about
that while explaining your mystical zen experiences?

> Mystical experiences
> could be claimed to be
> reality or illusion or delusion.

hahaha... starting to unfold... no they can not. experience is general
relativity... what it is... the reality of experience...

> Everyday experiences
> could be claimed to be
> reality or illusion or delusion.

can be... could be... you are making me nauseous... it also could be
that you do not believe you can fly because no one else can fly... on
your level of reasoning here it suggests that generally speaking there
are things that can fly... and we the reason you can not...

> Some people actually think
> and feel as if they have free-will.

some people accept science as fact when most of it... is only
theory... as for free will, consider then what science doesn't know...
there are x amount of base elements that react x amount of ways with
each other in generative, insulting and destructive cycles... error is
generated by what you do not know...

> Others might view such thinking
> and feeling as if it's all brain-farts.

that seems to be the problem yes? the body and all its senses are
strictly input... being that it is pure Law, output is impossible...
how much more so contradictory evidence to what it is... like you can
not not make more of something than what it already is...

> Words have meanings.
> Many carry baggage.

then words are baggage... take the clothes out of the suit case and
put them on...

> Some people have ties.
> Some ideas may suit
> their cases.

some... some... some... could be... can be... you are guessing.

> Some are open.
> Some are shut.

no. all is open... who shuts?

> Some say
> there is no case
> and no reason for ties.

they are bound by this, ask them why... experience is the key.

> Words are akin to nets.

collect all sorts of discard things yes?

> After a butterfly is captured
> the net may be set aside.

have you ever caught one? a net i mean. then perhaps you can explain
the difference between these...

> Some collectors pin their wings.
> No matter if it kills them.

you are going to die, choose your death...

> When a caterpillar is ready
> the Universe may spin

a round the bug?... hmmm... something fishy about that experience...

> - a round

sing it until ends... you are going to Hell... Jewboy...

Lucifer

[Wet Paper Bag]

On May 10, 6:37 am, "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble

Philosopher" <thetibetanmon...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Here's a mnemonic trick to remember:
>
> "There's 7 Eleven in Heaven and Taco Bell in Hell"
>
> Yes, you may find some of the American diet Christians are familiar
> with in Heaven --such as Diet Coke and chips-- but no meat. That's why
> you have Taco Bell in Hell. God can not possible tolerate sacrificing
> animals to feed people, and anyone who ever tried meat won't make it
> to Heaven.

did you know that the dalia lama eats meat twice a week? no one has
ever been to heaven monkey and hell is all they know... run away...
run away... they do not run from that fire because they are the kings
of the jungle or masters of the universe...

> But Hell doesn't deserve all the bad reputation it's being getting.
> Heaven, on the other hand, is just like a Gated Community, select and
> boring.

did you now of the problems arising from fire and rescue vehicles not
being able to get into gated communities?... it might be only a a few
minutes between the intercom, the maintenance guy and his letting you
in... it only takes 1 minute for your trash can to go inferno...

Lucifer

[Wet Paper Bag]

yes... i get it being, i said poetry thursday and left you alone and
now you are here to play poetry friday... so predictable... but just
so you know after yesterdays humiliation at harmon's, and in light of
my will out there, i have decided to up my character a hamonic... a
screeching ringing sound in your ears...

over the line jim?... but you did not get those scars heroically as
you first suggested did you? what was it again jim? prostitutes? and
what exactly did an angel like you do, or devil... whatever, to
deserve that? so if i suck at yahtzee, i must suck at life huh? not
even a lucky victory... weird... everyone has those even losers that
roll nothing but two pair...

i am thankful now that you were able to wise up in time... remember...
when i opened the pack i slid out my card, devil, it was on the bottom
and i did not set it up... then you cut the ace... death... what
happened next... a lie? that is quite the power you have there... why
do you need to play with mine? because if you add it up my brother...
every time you exceed my tolerance... i fuck your life up... is it not
so? so you not see the odds? the pattern?

when i confronted you about those honor scars... and asked if you had
ever got even for it...because i agree, that is extreme and unjust,
not suiting the crime you stated... said i would hunt them and torture
them for my brother... and you said... it has been 25 years... and i
smiled exactly... what is it that you have offered your brother that
even compares to this?

and harmon... your mom... she is waiting... and i am inclined based on
what i have seen that she has some valid points regarding your lack of
respect... but then, seeing as you are peeing in your best friends
drink... you never saved that money did you? you lied repeatedly...
the fact is, those are not the only lies... i was there the day you
said you did not go to work... when you got home from work, you did
your usual routine... i was trying to catch up to you but you zigged
where i zagged... then you lied to me... your pig has been smashed...

who kept you going brother when you were ready to quit on numerous
occasions? who whispered to your boss? got you off the hook, since of
course jim owes hundreds yes to my tree... but you use that to try and
mask the fact that you also under jim's wing... owe the tree... have
of either of you strangers paid my family what you owe?

now, let us see if we can begin again... no harm in airing out the
sheets yes?

now nome... that is why these losers here can not grasp the
knowledge... they remove the one thing as point, first point of
comparison... they say a point is arbitrary true... but as its
accompanying points become related, not only do you see the one thing
where and as it is, but you may then move from point to point...

for example:... yesterday i was walking... of course... and a few
strides ahead a toddler, 1 years or so, stepped of one step from a
walk to the sidewalk and totally dumped on the concrete... the moment,
and we all wait to see if it will cry... then the babe got up and
walked right to me laughing... i looked back and smiled not knowing
what i should do... freaked me out, haven't been around kids in a
while... lost that father i guess... now it just seems weird...

anyway... the point is, when the kid got up without tears i thought
(formula)... a ford. is the baby a truck?... but the correspondence
came based on the slogan "built ford tough"... tough you see? these
are how correspondences work... the baby is not a truck, is not a ford
but is tough... that time... and as for ford tough... that is a
standard, there are tougher and there are chevs... but without the
babe... so it is not enough to say... kabylion... there is always
hotter and colder as a matter of degrees... hotter and colder compare
to what you see? it is not nothing else guess what...

but continuing the formula above... hotter and colder... there is a
range in there where humans can survive in comfort... thus, the human
rides up and down the range of hot and cold... as he reaches each
extreme... he reacts... but is that extreme the end of it? since many
people can survive very cold conditions and others extreme heat...
after desert shield i have trouble with the heat... nauseates me...
and yet in those same conditions many die... so it is a matter of
taking you places that are within my tolerances while exceeding your
tolerances... so the one thing, to start, is not in a fixed position
or... the external hot and cold are not in a fixed position... one is
like being tied to a chair and tortured yes?... but is the opposite
also true?

so as with that meta-trons cube being representative of a particle of
light... we can say that light is not moving... time then is a
consequence of sound... and each time a sound emanates, since there is
nothing outside the light particle... each time it hits an
intersection on a line, it creates a particle which is symbiotic with
its sound... it becomes.

how many humans in the scale?

Lucifer

[Tim]

so... what general relativity and quantum mechanics tells us is.... ??

you want to believe you are the fixed point and center of the universe
of experience and yet, you move closer to people and further from
people... people move closer to you and further away... yuo can meet
here, you can meet there... locations of potential meeting are not
fixed either...

so based on this observation you can reasonably assume that there may
be a fixed point within the body... awareness... unfortunately as you
will learn Jewboy, you will always be you and bottom line cunt...
isn't that the dog you are trying to shake? so why be that dog to me?
no one is looking... you can let it all down and i will help you
remember what it is to be you... just you...

but it is not the central point of the universe of experience... you
can move around... compared to say an object of experience... it is a
fixed point and it is its own center of the universe of experience...
being human, right there and for that fact you should be jealous of a
chair... you say but the chair is not conscious, it can not move
around... i am not jealous of the chair... and yet you suggest that
other people, like a chair, also are not conscious... but able to move
around... actions of others... intentional? well, there is my mercy
you have a chance... but unintentional? no excpetions and let's face
it fuck up... you have yet to distinguish the difference...

since of course, all that bullshit that passes for enlightenment and
philosophy in your human brain (since of course as baz says, there is
no such thing as your mind... your awareness)... when i ask you to
throw down and show me what it means... you become a chair and i sit
and fart and shit all over your face... but based on eveidence... what
do you think mother fucker... do i know what it means?

the aim of yoga is one of correspondences, that qabalah and i-ching...
like that picture of the yogi meditating with a universe of design
revolving around his head... always moving, awareness on jupiter, now
on mars... mars and saturn... and through those filters,... to which
there is a something that may fix its attention, here or there, rather
than take it all in at once... as does the inferior body...

so i fix your attentions on my peter parker, my clark kent... and
again, i do not know how the magick works... but really, this
newsgroup is just a pair of glasses... like i said jim... 1200 is hard
to do since the roll is what it is and it is an organization of the
score and your ability to arrange it through rolls and placement... as
long as you do not see me fudging and fucking up, maximizing every
roll and every score... the devil, jim... is trying not to be death...
i can be way more violent and destructive than i am... but you seem to
be doing fine without my help...

in my soul, being as this is where you are as my guest, it is a sure
thing and losing has nothing to do with it other than the necessary
cover to hide myself from the profane... and from there... eliminate
them...

friends again? all nice? then let's be happy and enjoy the time in my
world that you have left... my memory is a powerful thing and every
time i die... you re-incarnate... or is it the other way around?...
well, whatever way it is i am certain your defective little fuck of a
brian thinks one if not both are yours...

warning... rachael is mischievous and playful... anna does not play
but is patient... as if she looks for you dumbass... and both of them
really, really love me... and thus, they are very protective... and we
all love getting into trouble...

Lucifer

[Wet Paper Bag]

... because here is what will happen jim... the last fight i had i had
not eaten properly in months and was 50lbs lighter than i am now... i
just finished surviving weeks on less than a can of tuna a day... i
was lisenced to depart at 1:00am and spent the night walking out to
the new eastern edge of the city and back, through the U, up to
lawson, back dt, up to lawson, back dt where a Jew decided i was weak
enough an angel to attack and did so...

my first defense was to extend my leg to prevent him from moving in
for attack... he attacked me, threw me to the ground where we wrestled
for about 10 minutes... then he stuck a finger in my eye... so i
demonstrated why one should keep one hand free from entanglement and
used that to reach for his eye... beauty it seems weighs heavier on
his mind than mine... we wrestled for a few more minutes then he got
up to reset his position... then, as demonstartion, i moved him
against a fence, he dipped his right hand so i knew he was seeting for
a punch. knowing his head would follow his hand i planted one in the
air to the other side... he then launched his all out coked up stike
and hit me square in the cheek... didn't even leave a mark and i
laughed provoking him by saying... is that it? is that all you got?...
only now, he was panting, ran out of gas... defeated by the stamina of
the serpent... and then, as we reset for another engagement... he
quit. unable to continue... and i let him go because he misunderstood
me... and he is my friend. even when, he was a sore loser and a suck
Jew and had me charged with assault... i won in court to.

so jim, let's measure up what i will now provoke out of you... how
does a guy that works like you never have any money? why do you always
borrow money which, i might add, you never pay back in full always
playing around with the numbers... further, assess how much you owe
the collective... i do not do that... and if i owe it is only
harmon... not every week... one shot at a time then i wait a month
then pay in full every time... why do you never have smokes?... and as
for the weed, it is a game... you say you follow and thus i say, then
here we are again...

your weed is weak, those are not 2 gram 20 chunks... you smoke and
demand... i ask and have never refused a no... and you like the blades
which is a vacuum cleaner... further your antics down at the park, as
you see now, draws attention... and now you are in trouble at work...
i am not the only one that thinks you are a cunt... and if work knows,
the cops know, they were just here at the library doing the clown
rountine and letting me know that they are fully aware of this
situation and as of yet are not prepared to act... big hint... so now
you are hot... but will that stop big jim from going to his source?
no. will it stop you from coming to harmon's? no... will you beg for
more money? yes...

and as i asked last time jim... when you were telling me your hooker
stories... but did it work?... and of course you said no... hmmm...
did you like the pork dish last saturday? yeah... it is awesome and we
all had less because of you... and it was not quite enough yes? you
wanted more true?... and i do that, among other meals, every weekend
harmon comes over... every weekend a home cooked and to the top
meal... as for the rest of it? i tell harmon it is not necessary...
when i first found him, we started and played every day for months
with nothing... and that meal jim?... the exchange for what... 2-4
thinly rolled smokes a day... so yeah, harmon's comment yesterday hurt
my feelings...

so what will happen if you finally find the balls to jump at me from
that chair is that i will dodge to one side or the other, then tackle
you... those are weak legs and weak arms and shoulders... strong hands
so when i step in out of effective range... you will grab and then i
will grab and likely hip toss your straw man frame to the ground and
you will get the full 190lbs of timmy time landing squarely on that
bone rack you call a chest... i might be able to break something right
there... we will wrestle, you will punch my lights, i will get cut and
bleed, maybe you will break a finger or two of mine to try and get me
to let go... i will use my freakishly long arms and powerful legs to
entangle you like a python and eventually... rather than put you to
sleep... i will create such entaglement and struggle phsyics as to
ensure that when i stand up bleeding my own blood, cut and brusied,
stiffness of impact trauma setting in, broken, limping and sore...

you will be left on the ground full of piss and vingar yet unable to
move... left completely exhausted... and then i will do serious damage
to ensure that once again you are marked for the Jew you are... and
then... court, maybe... but that brings me to my next point...

put me in a wheel chair, paralyze me from the neck down, cut off
limbs, throw me in the can, drug me up, labotomize me, shank me...
those things are very good deterents for shit like you jim... but they
will have no effect on me and you already know where i want to be...
those are not threats to me jim... and pain is not the same for me as
it is for you...

i mean the whole play is for harmon... it challenges you... makes you
jealous.. he has rumoured a loot... but has none... why would he
continue to play and pretend that he did since he knows the conditions
of our business contract?... and is that not why you hang out?... what
other reason is there for it?... and yet, do we not included you for
richer or poorer? i do not ever recall anyone saying no to you jim...
not when it comes to sharing...and yet, just like that asshole bill,
as soon as you get a little material, you forget how much you owe and
then try and play king of the castle, i got the licorice, everyone in
the sand box has to listen to me and do as i say... and then next
week, you have nothing again... pathetic and weak and that is the core
of your being, the rest simply a mask to compensate for how truly lame
you really are... your mask does not work on me jim...

but if you want him... if you think that is what it is... have him...
take him.. dimes and dozens jim... and you must admit, i am a man you
do not meet everyday...

Lucifer

[Tim]

hahaha... ok girls... ok... trying to get me in trouble again arn't
you... that is not quite what happened but i understand how it looks
exactly like that to you...

you are my strength... i am your angel...

Tim

[His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher]

On May 10, 10:32 am, Wet Paper Bag <ultimate.henchman....@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On May 10, 6:37 am, "His Highness the Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble
>
> Philosopher" <thetibetanmon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Here's a mnemonic trick to remember:
>
> > "There's 7 Eleven in Heaven and Taco Bell in Hell"
>
> > Yes, you may find some of the American diet Christians are familiar
> > with in Heaven --such as Diet Coke and chips-- but no meat. That's why
> > you have Taco Bell in Hell. God can not possible tolerate sacrificing
> > animals to feed people, and anyone who ever tried meat won't make it
> > to Heaven.
>
> did you know that the dalia lama eats meat twice a week? no one has
> ever been to heaven monkey and hell is all they know... run away...
> run away... they do not run from that fire because they are the kings
> of the jungle or masters of the universe...
>

I don't think the Dalai Lama will make it to Heaven. Those rumors that
he's CIA are fully investigated by God.

[being]

Wet Paper Bag wrote:

> being wrote:
>> Wet Paper Bag wrote:
>
>> > where is the evidence?
>
>i will give you some...
>
><snip> those links are someone else's experience.

True.

Yogananda lived recently.
Maybe he wrote about the truth.
I like to believe he did.

Faith can be an interesting form
of energy, consciousness, reality, et al.

>> Science can be a method.
>
>what else can science be?

There are what are called
scientific theories. Scientific proofs.
Lots of phrases begin with a word.

It might be a noun, an adjective,
maybe a verb in some ways or an adverb.

In a sense, it is a pre-
position one might use to.

Grammar-wise.

> are there methods other than science?

Statistics can be a method.

Dao can be translated as method.

Dao tends to be a favorite of mine.

A dao mine is often deep and wide
and full of gems and other treasure
troves in the xin or heart-mind.

>> Experiences might be experienced.
>
>no... experienced are experienced...

If they are, then they are.
Experienced by those who do.

If they are someone else's
then they might be presented as evidence.

An eye-witness might give a Testament
to some experience as being visual
or auditory, tactile, etc.

The LHC might present observations
which are witnessed in ways
from which conclusions are drawn.

The Hubble deep space field photo
might be presented as evidence, which,
when red-shifted by those who supposedly
are in the know, might be accepted
by those without having had
any such type of experience
for themselves.

Spouting words
such as Big Bang or quark
might be a quirk of their reality.

Until a glitch appears.

> correct perception might be
>experienced.

As well, so-called incorrect, illusory phenomena.
Incomplete might be another term.

What makes correct, correct
could have something to do with
verification of some sort.

When others agree
then a system may flow
and a paradigm emerge, as well
as taken as being real. Reified.

>> "For those having had an experience
>> no explanation is necessary.
>
>really? what just happened...

I don't know,
I haven't read past the ellipses.

>tim is obviously running on a level opf
>destruction that is unstoppable, untouchable, at his command and he
>continues to escalate... he is going to kill you... but do you stop?

Stop what?

>what is his completely unfair and unjust, unreasonable demand?

It's not an uncommon demand,
to demand evidence.

It's the basic stance of many
who are locked into physical-materialism
as being their most fundamentalism.

>... what
>does he order people to do and what does he demand in return?

I have no idea.

>... guess
>you do not have that experience

Guess not.

>and yet who is explaining who?

Somebody, uncited, asked for a detailed picture.

Probably it was a rhetorical question
in the sense trolls might ask something.

Some brains are not all there, so to speak.

Yet that does not stop fingers from typing
words that make a semblance of sense.

Their neural nets are woven
in spells that are in ways
similar to trolls.

>> For those not having had an experience
>> no explanation is possible."
>
>now i know you are joking... who else talks of this other than those
>with the experience?

Experiences vary.
Details vary.

Mine are limited to mines
dug thru time and space,
given by my situations.

>> Physical/material consciousness is a form.
>> For some people, that is all there is.
>
>yes, perhaps, humans are stupid...

Some people think nature is stupid.

They may know in some fashion
of their thought that the Universe is stupid.

Because there is no evidence
they will accept as evidence
to force them to think within
any other fashion statement.

As if the Universe does not know,
in any sense, how to form life
out of stardust, nor spin a planet
around a star in a golden locked
orbital frame of reference.

And yet, apparently, it did.

And probably does, in other systems
as wells, yet to be discovered.

> quantum physics is the science
>based on the conscious perception of ones physical/material and how it
>works, the physics of how you perceive things...

Yes. Very good probabilities,
satistically squeeking.

> applied to general
>relativity, the way things are before they are perceived...

I have, perhaps, no idea
how anything is other than as perceived.

GR, afaik, deals with very large scales
and speeds approaching an absolute limit
governed by the measures, the rulers,
which are used at present.

As far as a constant goes,
six trillion miles a year is quite far.

And yet, a mere blink
in other referenced frames.

> would you
>suggest that you are not perceiving anything Jew?

I am perceiving some words on a screen
and interpreting them as meaning something.

Exactly what the words mean, to you,
probably differs than what they mean, to me,
as well as what they mean to others.

Word are as baggage.
They might carry something.
Some folks like some words
and use them a lot.

>> One may speak of Zen,
>> or of some other form,
>> but such speaking
>> could fall short
>> for lack of evidence.
>
>not really... zen is from a non-mystical society... ever thought about
>that while explaining your mystical zen experiences?

I am unsure what a mystical zen experience is.

If it is akin to being in the Zone
then it might be both non-mystical
as well as mystical at the same time.

Walking, as well, might be done
without giving it much thought.

Maybe you mean something else.

I don't know if Japan, or China, or India,
if that is where Zen is from, were non-
mystical at the time it was.

>> Mystical experiences
>> could be claimed to be
>> reality or illusion or delusion.
>
>hahaha... starting to unfold... no they can not.

Of course they can.
Claims of any mine can be made.

But you have something on your mind.

Whether a claim holds up,
whether the frames can support
whatever is dug from beneath,
ore found in a river, that
might be a case too
bring froth.

> experience is general
>relativity...

I guess you don't mean GR.

>what it is... the reality of experience...

The reality is that experience is relative?

That makes sense to me.

It's as good of an assertion as many.

A and the, as articles
might be particles of speech
to take a look at from time to time.

An experience could be manifold.

A reality of Euclidean experience
may preclude a sphere from Flatland,
as well as triangles adding up to more than,
or less than, one hundred and eighty degrees.

>> Everyday experiences
>> could be claimed to be
>> reality or illusion or delusion.
>
>can be... could be... you are making me nauseous...

Here. Have a virtual barf-bag.

>it also could be
>that you do not believe you can fly because no one else can fly

I believe I can fly.

I have flown at many times
and thru many spaces. I may say,
for reasons unexplored, that I have
actually only flown thru one spacetime.

There is little reason for me to believe I
nor anyone else can not fly.

Maybe you don't mean with wings of metal.
Nor even propellers made of wood.
Let alone jet power.

I, personally, would not assert
that no one else can fly, or levitate,
simply because it has yet to be demonstrated
in front of the Amazing Randi.

I actually believe people can levitate/fly
when circumstances allow for such a phenomenon.

Mechanisms may yet be discovered
as being all curled up, within,
various dimensions.

>... on
>your level of reasoning here it suggests that generally speaking there
>are things that can fly... and we the reason you can not...

On my level of reasoning, here,
generally speaking, many things fly. Birds
and insects fly.

I don't know if the reason people can not
is due to their consensus reality or if there is a
curvature of spacetime such that it precludes
heavy so-called individuals from flying
without having wings to so lift them
off the ground they are glued to
by gluons or higgs bosons
or some other bozo
reason for it.

>> Some people actually think
>> and feel as if they have free-will.
>
>some people accept science as fact when most of it... is only
>theory... as for free will, consider then what science doesn't know...
>there are x amount of base elements that react x amount of ways with
>each other in generative, insulting and destructive cycles... error is
>generated by what you do not know...

I suppose at times that can be the case.

>> Others might view such thinking
>> and feeling as if it's all brain-farts.
>
>that seems to be the problem yes?

It can be. If that's what people make it.

Even more. It can be problematic.

There's no way for them to access
any level other than what can be measured.

If it can't be replicated
then it was outside their realm.

Anecdotes don't count, for them.
Even if the experience was/is their own.

> the body and all its senses are
>strictly input... being that it is pure Law, output is impossible...
>how much more so contradictory evidence to what it is... like you can
>not not make more of something than what it already is...

In a lab, maybe not by sheer power of will.
Not in our day, and age.

Perhaps there's a force, unbelief, generated
by the inertia of material-consciousness
supported by a lack of evidence
as being evidence of lack.

>> Words have meanings.
>> Many carry baggage.
>
>then words are baggage...

Some people like carry-ons.

> take the clothes out of the suit case and
>put them on...
>
>> Some people have ties.
>> Some ideas may suit
>> their cases.
>
>some... some... some... could be... can be... you are guessing.

At times meanings of words are not fixed.

Not all people all the time always do
nor always say the same thing nor mean
the same thing when they use a word.

Usually this is the case.

>> Some are open.
>> Some are shut.
>
>no. all is open... who shuts?

Those who shut their minds and hearts
to various descriptions or pictures of Heaven.

>> Some say
>> there is no case
>> and no reason for ties.
>
>they are bound by this, ask them why... experience is the key.

Some people experience the world
as if it is out to get them.

They generalize.

If they have no experience of swimming
and never experienced more than a glass
half empty of water, for them it may be
impossible to have an experience
of seeing beyond their glass
nor even of realizing how
it is half full as well.

>> Words are akin to nets.
>
>collect all sorts of discard things yes?
>
>> After a butterfly is captured
>> the net may be set aside.
>
>have you ever caught one? a net i mean. then perhaps you can explain
>the difference between these...

I never used a net to catch butterflies.
I used to use my fingers or hands.
Never stuck pins in them.
But they all died
if I tried to keep them.

Setting them free
is the way for me to be.
Unfixed, a way to gaze.

Not even touching them
is probably better yet.
Not with a net.
Not on a bet.

Eyes may rest
as being the best.

>> Some collectors pin their wings.
>> No matter if it kills them.
>
>you are going to die, choose your death...

As well as resurrection.

>> When a caterpillar is ready
>> the Universe may spin
>
>a round the bug?... hmmm... something fishy about that experience...
>
>> - a round
>
>sing it until ends... you are going to Hell... Jewboy...

I go to Hell quite often.
So far it has yet to keep me down.

Thinking about the raising from the dead though
and how the Jews would not believe it, even if
someone were to return from the dead,
reminded me of how Jews can be
even if they think they aren't.

If somebody cannot accept
Jesus having risen from being dead
then perhaps that person could be called
a Jew, by any other name.

- funny, t'hats

[Wet Paper Bag]

On 10 May, 13:49, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> ><snip> those links are someone else's experience.
>
> True.

then they are not real... why do you use them to try and support your
case?

> Yogananda lived recently.
> Maybe he wrote about the truth.
> I like to believe he did.

not real. someone else's experience. maybe.

> Faith can be an interesting form
> of energy, consciousness, reality, et al.

faith is action based on perception and belief... it is called a leap
of faith... non-doing, in context, is not faith... thus death and the
devil are at a cliff... the point so many miss when it comes to being
me... death points out the belief... the devil mocks the absurdity of
the action... neither change the conditions of the Law... both are on
the same side of belief... do you have faith or belief?... then...
faith...

> >> Science can be a method.
>
> >what else can science be?
>
> There are what are called
> scientific theories. Scientific proofs.
> Lots of phrases begin with a word.

sure. but you are dodging the question... consider the sceince that is
destroying your world right now... method yes... theories... only...
but proofs? were not the learning and applications of science to
perfect the imperfections?...

> It might be a noun, an adjective,
> maybe a verb in some ways or an adverb.

adjectives only... philosophically not the thing in and of itself...
that is where you miss the principles presented in the kabylion... you
have removed the one thing and thus ntohing works, nothin gmakes sense
and thus you tell yourself that must be what it is... all these things
are adjectives... dog is a noun... but that is not what it is...
sniffing crotches is its nature... but not all of its nature... as for
the verb, dog... that is all it can be nothing else... yet you say the
dog is... <blank>... running? i can run.

> In a sense, it is a pre-
> position one might use to.

used to... guess... since what it is perceptionally is not perfect...
and the aim of science is to perfect the imperfections...

> Grammar-wise.

awesome... semantics to... logic is false.

> > are there methods other than science?
>
> Statistics can be a method.

true. so is tarot... same thing... however there is only an illusion
of perception if... i can deremine your likelihood to roll the dice...
but since by their very nature the dice are random there are no
statistics for these... if you are angry, you blow your top
statistcally... if you are angry and roll a dice it is always
different... your kettle boils every time... so in your quest to
perfection... i can create the perfect conditions in which anyone of
your kind will react the same way... but i can not tell you what the
next roll will be... guessing yes?

> Dao can be translated as method.

not entirely. what is it doing that can be done?

> Dao tends to be a favorite of mine.

what part?

> A dao mine is often deep and wide
> and full of gems and other treasure
> troves in the xin or heart-mind.

what is the method to see these things?

> >> Experiences might be experienced.
>
> >no... experienced are experienced...
>
> If they are, then they are.
> Experienced by those who do.

but not your experience... don't jump... further, it is past tense,
the same as those die... before experience what is there that can
experience? and if it is there, is not already the experience? and
yet, you do not have any sense of experiencing it... has it not
happened yet?

> If they are someone else's
> then they might be presented as evidence.

no. cause and effect are evidence. to say if you do that i will do
this... and that is like jump... and you do.. and now you say...
starting now, starting now... starting now... have you found the reset
to action yet?

> An eye-witness might give a Testament
> to some experience as being visual
> or auditory, tactile, etc.

a crowded street. every one busy. nothing out of the ordinary. no one
is paying attention. suddenly a little girl screams... stop! you are
hurting me! let me go! let me go!... and suddenly everyone is
looking... and there is a bum pale as a ghost with a firm grip on an
little girl's arm... across the street? the parents are running to
their little girl... a woman turns around and sees the scene... calls
the cop up the block who saw nothing... and they all come rushing to
help... to save the little girl... a man on a bike steps off and grabs
the bum... starts soundly beating him in the name of justice... the
cop cuffs him and take him away... the parents recount... they called
the little girl from across the street. she wasn't looking, almost
stepped out in front of a bus... the bum... saved her life... it is
called taking the hit... only a master can do it...

> The LHC might present observations
> which are witnessed in ways
> from which conclusions are drawn.

the old spider experiment... jump... it jumps... pull off one leg...
jump... it jumps... pull off another leg... jump... it jumps... until
you pull off the last leg... jump... conclusion... it goes deaf.

> The Hubble deep space field photo
> might be presented as evidence, which,
> when red-shifted by those who supposedly
> are in the know, might be accepted
> by those without having had
> any such type of experience
> for themselves.

someone elses experience... allegedly... further, of what value is
that experience? like i said before... really.. a quark... wow.. now
bringing it back to magnification in a scale where the quark
functions... i see a cup... so what... can you see to the edge?
awesome.. do you see heaven? any ideas on how to get there?... so
what. are the imperfections of this place, the one thing removed...
are they what keep you looking here and there? and have found what?
meanwhile back at the reality...

> Spouting words
> such as Big Bang or quark
> might be a quirk of their reality.

hahaha... writes itself... big bang is a theory... like so many, that
is accepted as fact except for the fact that...

> Until a glitch appears.

hahaha... is it a glitch? is that what they call it? so then this
glitch then becomes the one thing to be conquered... not the fact that
science is wrong... ohhh so painfully wrong...

> > correct perception might be
> >experienced.
>
> As well, so-called incorrect, illusory phenomena.
> Incomplete might be another term.

incorrect is the perception that is biased by ones own need to be
correct... it makes no sense why you can not see it... well, of course
it does... you know how the tribe treats fuck ups like those...

> What makes correct, correct
> could have something to do with
> verification of some sort.

sure. it is called the common Law... a kettle is put on a fire that is
hot enough for long enough and it boils every time no exceptions...
jump... fall... no excpetions... odd yes? no one wants to prove those
things. no one has too and yet, as you say, what about what we do not
know or even better... what we refuse to accept... like failure...
that is why i practice losing... i find humans incredibly funny when i
lose as if that is a measure of Law... again, being the devil is about
trying not to be...

> When others agree
> then a system may flow
> and a paradigm emerge, as well
> as taken as being real. Reified.

democracy... yes of course, i to voted for disneyland this
christmas... what exactly is it that you believe we have a choice
about when it comes to jumping and falling? and say we all decide...
unanimously... no death... does the Law change? then it is impossible
for an entire species or planet to be wrong... happens all the time...
you are at the beginning of it now...

> >really? what just happened...
>
> I don't know,
> I haven't read past the ellipses.

exactly. but this is meditation for me so we both seem to receive
benefit from this exchange... i do not do this for you...

> >tim is obviously running on a level opf
> >destruction that is unstoppable, untouchable, at his command and he
> >continues to escalate... he is going to kill you... but do you stop?
>
> Stop what?

what am i using for fuel?

> >what is his completely unfair and unjust, unreasonable demand?
>
> It's not an uncommon demand,
> to demand evidence.

plenty of evidence... you can not believe your eyes yes? but that is
not the context... do i demand you turn all your assets over to me?
huh? do i have this rigid set of rules for which i am entiltled to
break but you are not? do i ask that you bow and show respect on the
streets? what is my doctrine? what are the conditions? do you think i
need your belief?... i certainly repel all those who would follow... i
live according to your words for me... do you feel as if, other than
what i am, that i keep any secrets from you? any past indescretions?
do i tread lightly? do i go around and tell people... do not do that
or you will go to hell? if you want to go to heaven you must listen
and obey me... do i come off like every other Jew who starts a
following? do i have some pyramid scheme to make you wealthy?... do i
not expose what all those other secrets are about? do i not give ample
warning to events?...

> It's the basic stance of many
> who are locked into physical-materialism
> as being their most fundamentalism.
>
> >... what
> >does he order people to do and what does he demand in return?
>
> I have no idea.

then the answer is no. in the sense that it is not real. someone elses
experience. and until it happens to you... and who provides start
points by showing that i respect your contribution here? egolessly
loses in a push pull to give you that start point...

>
> >... guess
> >you do not have that experience
>
> Guess not.

so what then is the foundation of your debate and oppistion?... why do
you resist? are these Laws so hard to understand... or are you finding
glitches... things that do not fit all your past experience since of
course it is your past experience that is determining your future
experience not the Laws themselves.

>
> >and yet who is explaining who?
>
> Somebody, uncited, asked for a detailed picture.

yes, and the cube is that picture... 30^30... 26 letters, a space, a
comma, a period, a question mark... every possible word and sentence
combinations ever... absolute. all there, already written... so what
purpose do i fill by adding more details? what is the difference in
knowledge between 30 and 31 symbols? one more idea? or millions?

> Probably it was a rhetorical question
> in the sense trolls might ask something.

moot. rhetorical means persuasive.

> Some brains are not all there, so to speak.

sure they are. that is your faux pas... the more primative and
instinctual, uneducated the brain, the better aligned they are with
the Way... before words there was nothing impossible only what is...
then words and impossible things started appearing every where...

>
> Yet that does not stop fingers from typing
> words that make a semblance of sense.

correspondence of senses... you have already confessed you do not
understand...

> Their neural nets are woven
> in spells that are in ways
> similar to trolls.

so are a box of legos.. is that what you see? a troll in that pile of
multicoloured sized blocks...


> Experiences vary.
> Details vary.

as per example above... the bum was a hero but when the attention was
drawn... they only saw the words...

> Mine are limited to mines
> dug thru time and space,
> given by my situations.

yes but you do not see a yahtzee yet... i, as a gag, roll two pair...
you mock me for being a loser but that is because you do not have the
eleganceto see my art... two pairs yes... 2s and 3s... 6s and 4s... 1s
and 4s... when they fall out like that... you see it as being a
different role every time when in fact the pattern is ... two pairs.

> Some people think nature is stupid.

perhaps... every seen a retard doing a red ross? i don't think it
matters ant. it does however have the one advantage of perfection...
no exceptions... it does not say on ething one day and another thing
the next... it does not hide its mistakes nor does it blame others...
afterall, all that is really happening here is a species consuming
itself... the earth and her Laws survived creation and countless clean
slates... if that is stupid, it is my kind of stupid... all in.

> They may know in some fashion
> of their thought that the Universe is stupid.

yet who does not understand? who keeps making mistakes?

> Because there is no evidence
> they will accept as evidence
> to force them to think within
> any other fashion statement.

that is an instinct of million sof years of trying to get out of this
place because they can not accept what they really are...

> As if the Universe does not know,

does not care. what is, is.

> in any sense, how to form life
> out of stardust, nor spin a planet

and yet it formed you.

> around a star in a golden locked
> orbital frame of reference.

arbitrary frame.

> And yet, apparently, it did.

and continues to do so just as it is the utility of the space that
gives the door its purpose.

got to go...

r

[Wet Paper Bag]

On May 10, 1:49 pm, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> Even more. It can be problematic.

can be? that sounds problematic....

> There's no way for them to access
> any level other than what can be measured.

i agree. but that is only half the truth... like i pointed out... the
edge... it takes time and losers and geeks to figure out what they
have discovered.

> If it can't be replicated
> then it was outside their realm.

top shelf being.

> Anecdotes don't count, for them.
> Even if the experience was/is their own.

the is sink in time... you can do your own math... you want more time.

> In a lab, maybe not by sheer power of will.
> Not in our day, and age.

will? an odd word from you. time?... now i know you are joking.

> Perhaps there's a force, unbelief, generated

guessing.

> by the inertia of material-consciousness
> supported by a lack of evidence
> as being evidence of lack.

deficiency. your reaction is excessive.


> Some people like carry-ons.

then carry on. some people prefer the bin program. with all the
restrictions... there is nothing left to carry. a spark of a whole new
line of airline specialties... i know someone who can hook you up...
unless of course you already have one of your own... but as a matter
of... eloquence... she does have a head start... but of course, she is
a king. i am listening.

> > take the clothes out of the suit case and
> >put them on...
>
> >> Some people have ties.
> >> Some ideas may suit
> >> their cases.
>
> >some... some... some... could be... can be... you are guessing.
>
> At times meanings of words are not fixed.

so you do understand after the rest... wow. how many wrongs on that
hit?

> Not all people all the time always do
> nor always say the same thing nor mean
> the same thing when they use a word.

too late now Jewboy... words change...not people.

> Usually this is the case.

sometimes. but there are no statistics for random... that is the
chance yes?

> >> Some are open.
> >> Some are shut.
>
> >no. all is open... who shuts?
>
> Those who shut their minds and hearts
> to various descriptions or pictures of Heaven.

no one is asking you to participate in my choices...

> >> Some say
> >> there is no case
> >> and no reason for ties.
>
> >they are bound by this, ask them why... experience is the key.
>
> Some people experience the world
> as if it is out to get them.

why deny it? it is. are you persuaded? are you the one that can see
heaven without this place?

> They generalize.

it is a feeling.

> If they have no experience of swimming
> and never experienced more than a glass
> half empty of water, for them it may be
> impossible to have an experience
> of seeing beyond their glass
> nor even of realizing how
> it is half full as well.

half full is why it is safe. why it is round... too much and off you
go...

> >have you ever caught one? a net i mean. then perhaps you can explain
> >the difference between these...
>
> I never used a net to catch butterflies.
> I used to use my fingers or hands.
> Never stuck pins in them.
> But they all died
> if I tried to keep them.

yet you have thought of using a net yes?

are you aware of the delicacy of their wings?

a single touch and they crash...

> Setting them free

they were free.

> is the way for me to be.

so you catch them first.

> Unfixed, a way to gaze.

on what? actions of ideals?

> Not even touching them
> is probably better yet.

too late now. as i said, your future is built by your past... you
removed the one thing. you removed the Law.

> Not with a net.
> Not on a bet.

a bet? there are no statistics for those odds... are you certain you
are gambling material?

> Eyes may rest
> as being the best.

well, it is after all for the prettiest. is it worth a bite?

> >> Some collectors pin their wings.
> >> No matter if it kills them.
>
> >you are going to die, choose your death...
>
> As well as resurrection.

a word that requires some force outside of your self.

> I go to Hell quite often.
> So far it has yet to keep me down.

but those are people... not gods... a shitty diaper is a shitty
diaper... can you change it? then prepare to be uncomfortable until
you can.

> Thinking about the raising from the dead though
> and how the Jews would not believe it, even if
> someone were to return from the dead,
> reminded me of how Jews can be
> even if they think they aren't.

you are confused ... what do you mean Jew... the day that work of art
Picasso died his work was priceless... he never saw a dime and lived
in misery... a tortured genius... but jesus? took 65 years... after he
died... solomon met the same end.

> If somebody cannot accept
> Jesus having risen from being dead
> then perhaps that person could be called
> a Jew, by any other name.

then call me a Jew... i have never died... it gives people hope in a
time of death...

> - funny, t'hats

but is it really, REALLY funny?

Lucifer

[being]

Wet Paper Bag wrote:

> being wrote:
>
>> ><snip> those links are someone else's experience.
>>
>> True.
>
>then they are not real...

By that apparent definition of real,
QM, GR, and anything else one has not experienced
for oneself is not real.

> why do you use them to try and support your case?

I was not making a case.

What the OP wrote had something in it
to the effect that he had never seen a detailed
description of Heaven.

My response was that there are many
to be found if one cares to search a bit.

I then provided links.

Personally, I have never seen a blue whale.

Yet, if somebody appeared to me to be asking
for a detailed description of a whale, I might
provide some links to photos and descriptions.

The idea that they aren't mine
did not, as far as I knew, make any difference.

I could have read the OP wrong tho.
That's a definite possibility.

>> Yogananda lived recently.
>> Maybe he wrote about the truth.
>> I like to believe he did.
>
>not real. someone else's experience. maybe.

If it happened, then it happened.

I have not been to the Moon.

Some people think nobody has been there.

I like to think people have been there.

Call it a form of faith.

>> Faith can be an interesting form
>> of energy, consciousness, reality, et al.
>
>faith is action based on perception and belief... it is called a leap
>of faith... non-doing, in context, is not faith... thus death and the
>devil are at a cliff... the point so many miss when it comes to being
>me... death points out the belief... the devil mocks the absurdity of
>the action... neither change the conditions of the Law... both are on
>the same side of belief... do you have faith or belief?...

Whenever I stand up, I have faith
that my feet and legs will support me.

I tend to believe that has to do
with how spacetime is topographically curved
which used to be known as gravity.

My explanations and theories and beliefs
often include what I've learned from other people.

My faith usually includes some action or inaction.

> then...
>faith...
>
>> >> Science can be a method.
>>
>> >what else can science be?
>>
>> There are what are called
>> scientific theories. Scientific proofs.
>> Lots of phrases begin with a word.
>
>sure. but you are dodging the question...

I am often dense.
Missing a point is not necessarily a dodge.

>consider the sceince that is
>destroying your world right now... method yes... theories... only...
>but proofs? were not the learning and applications of science to
>perfect the imperfections?...

I normally see things from many povs.

I like to think Mother Earth can take care of herself.
Mother Nature is an even greater form of being.

Science, and the scientific method, can be a tool.

Tools don't destroy the world.

A hammer requires a user of it to smash things.
By itself, it sits on the shelf or in a drawer or shed.

When a famous discoverer of electricty discovered
how it is and works, a lord of the land came to visit.

Supposedly
when Peel asked Faraday what it was good for,
Faraday said he didn't know.

The applications as well as the learnings
might be for themselves. For no ulterior motive.

Applications often have unintended consequences.

However, there are, also, what you pose.

Scientific methodology often includes motivations
to improve, if not perfect, some perceived notion
of how things might be some other way.

It can be a very powerful too.

>> It might be a noun, an adjective,
>> maybe a verb in some ways or an adverb.
>
>adjectives only... philosophically not the thing in and of itself...
>that is where you miss the principles presented in the kabylion...

I am unfamiliar with that term, kabylion.

> you
>have removed the one thing and thus ntohing works,

When a thing doesn't work
then a cause-effect paradigm may be useful.

When everything is fine
to try and find out why, what the causes are,
might be to go on a fun chase after wild geese.

> nothin gmakes sense
>and thus you tell yourself that must be what it is...

I often adopt whatever pov satisfies me.

At times, a Hindu view incorporating Self
can be a key to the legend of a Map.

At times, a Daoist view sits well.
Refreshing waters it provides me with.

> all these things
>are adjectives... dog is a noun... but that is not what it is...
>sniffing crotches is its nature... but not all of its nature... as for
>the verb, dog... that is all it can be nothing else... yet you say the
>dog is... <blank>... running? i can run.
>
>> In a sense, it is a pre-
>> position one might use to.
>
>used to... guess... since what it is perceptionally is not perfect...
>and the aim of science is to perfect the imperfections...

One aim might be.

Another aim could be pure research.

A perfectly good watch
might have been taken apart
to see what makes it tick.

Not to make a better watch.

Lots of potential motives
might float a round.

>> Grammar-wise.
>
>awesome... semantics to... logic is false.
>
>> > are there methods other than science?
>>
>> Statistics can be a method.
>
>true. so is tarot... same thing... however there is only an illusion
>of perception if... i can deremine your likelihood to roll the dice...
>but since by their very nature the dice are random there are no
>statistics for these...

I, at times, appreciate noname's disdain
for the term, random. And random-chance.

Random, to me, usually means
unpredictable at some level.

There are statistics for dice, coins, etc.,
when taken in large quantities.

Any one flip or roll is not uncaused
but what turns up might be uncertain
on any given flip or roll.

Too many variables to compute.

Too many initial conditions
to which an outcome is sensitive.

>if you are angry, you blow your top
>statistcally... if you are angry and roll a dice it is always
>different... your kettle boils every time... so in your quest to
>perfection... i can create the perfect conditions in which anyone of
>your kind will react the same way... but i can not tell you what the
>next roll will be... guessing yes?

Normally, yes.
A guess is what folks make or take.

>> Dao can be translated as method.
>
>not entirely. what is it doing that can be done?

Dao, according to the DDJ, never does anything.
Dao is always wu-wei. It has no mind, no motive.

Water could be said to carve mountains,
make valleys, nourish all things.

Without effort. With no intent. Wu-wei.

>> Dao tends to be a favorite of mine.
>
>what part?

Often in terms of a unity of polarities.

Up-down, front-back, inside-outside,
with-without, those sorts of sorts.

To think, for example, in terms of either-or,
at times lifts my thoughts to a more
inclusive level of consciousness.

Some might propose a narrow-band
or narrow-minded form of thought.

As if, either there is
or there is not
any form of Heaven.

With what I like to see as a Dao pov,
there is a Way beyond both the is
and is-not frames of reference.

This Way includes both
but itself is neither.

It is That
from which polarities emerge.

As such, I may then set aside
pondering narrow-band or narrow-minded
forms of thought, for a spell.

>> A dao mine is often deep and wide
>> and full of gems and other treasure
>> troves in the xin or heart-mind.
>
>what is the method to see these things?

Reflection, probably.
Sitting still. Wu-xin perhaps. Wu-ji. Wu.

Undifferentiating.

Reversal.

From 10k may be viewed how
they were, previously, proverbally, three.
From the three, there were, before that,
ontologically, two. The two arose from one.

It may say in the DDJ how
all things arise from Being
and Being from Nonbeing.

Wu.

>> >> Experiences might be experienced.
>>
>> >no... experienced are experienced...
>>
>> If they are, then they are.
>> Experienced by those who do.
>
>but not your experience...

Mine are mine.
Yours are yours.
Theirs are theirs.
His is his. Hers, hers.

> don't jump... further, it is past tense,

Okay.
Right now, this very instant, I am sitting.

Here, in front of a screen, typing.
You are, now, reading.

It might be a form of Heaven.
It might be a form of Hell.

It might be a form of consciousness.
Lots of forms might be involved.

>the same as those die... before experience what is there that can
>experience?

Whatever there is, there is.

> and if it is there, is not already the experience? and
>yet, you do not have any sense of experiencing it... has it not
>happened yet?

Your experience of it has not happened.

Depending on what it is, it might be thought
to have been there previously, or not.

Swimming, for example, I would tend to say
does not exist unless some body is swimming.

The screen you are looking at right now,
I would tend to suppose, does exist
even when you are not looking at it.

It tends to be compelling, for me,
to believe there is, and to act as if there is,
objective forms of reality independent
of my frame of reference.

Exactly what those forms are,
in and of themselves, without me experiencing
them in any way, or form, might be impossible
for me to know.

Consciousness tends to function
by differentiating, by cutting, sci,
akin to scissors, or science.

It has a sci inside of it, con-sci-ousness.

>> If they are someone else's
>> then they might be presented as evidence.
>
>no. cause and effect are evidence.

I like to call cause-effect a paradigm, a tool.

> to say if you do that i will do
>this... and that is like jump... and you do.. and now you say...
>starting now, starting now... starting now... have you found the reset
>to action yet?

I might change my pov.
Look at a different map.

Cause-effect tends to be a carving
of what can be seen as being uncarved.

It's a superimposition.

A grid-work, placed over
and above something else.

To begin with, there is what is.
That's a given.

Then, after whatever is, is,
a cause
for that thing or event
might be sought.

To think someone causes some thing
is to think.

It's a way of looking.
A way of faith at times.
A very powerful tool.

Why such a pov or thinking is used
might have some motive behind it.

Looking at things, or events,
via different maps
might also have some use
at times.

A quest, as well as a quest-
ion tends to end when satisfaction is reached.

When one is in neutral mode.

As long as there is a charge
then quests and quest ions tend to persist.

>> An eye-witness might give a Testament
>> to some experience as being visual
>> or auditory, tactile, etc.
>
>a crowded street. every one busy. nothing out of the ordinary. no one
>is paying attention. suddenly a little girl screams... stop! you are
>hurting me! let me go! let me go!... and suddenly everyone is
>looking... and there is a bum pale as a ghost with a firm grip on an
>little girl's arm... across the street? the parents are running to
>their little girl... a woman turns around and sees the scene... calls
>the cop up the block who saw nothing... and they all come rushing to
>help... to save the little girl... a man on a bike steps off and grabs
>the bum... starts soundly beating him in the name of justice... the
>cop cuffs him and take him away... the parents recount... they called
>the little girl from across the street. she wasn't looking, almost
>stepped out in front of a bus... the bum... saved her life... it is
>called taking the hit... only a master can do it...

Or a simple hobo.

Acting, wu-wei.

I have no idea if being a master
is required to get a punch in the face
from a moron who misinterprets
what was thought.

Perhaps the moron saved the hobo
from something worse on down the Road.

>> The LHC might present observations
>> which are witnessed in ways
>> from which conclusions are drawn.
>
>the old spider experiment... jump... it jumps... pull off one leg...
>jump... it jumps... pull off another leg... jump... it jumps... until
>you pull off the last leg... jump... conclusion... it goes deaf.

Sounds cruel, and unusual.
But, scientists often have no heart.

With their minds they don't mind
the pain or feelings of other organisms.

The world, such as it is, leaves
mulch to be desired all too often.

Accepting it, such as it is, can be a chore.
At times, a trial of sorts. Going thru
the motions might move me.

If the pain is too intense,
if I am able to, I change povs.

Adopting a view that incurs less emotion,
less attachment. At times that can be a way
for me to get out of a corner of being
painted into.

>> The Hubble deep space field photo
>> might be presented as evidence, which,
>> when red-shifted by those who supposedly
>> are in the know, might be accepted
>> by those without having had
>> any such type of experience
>> for themselves.
>
>someone elses experience... allegedly... further, of what value is
>that experience?

I appreciate views, at times.
Views of space can be beautiful.

Beauty can be its own reward.
Akin to singing. Or going for a walk. Or a swim.

> like i said before... really.. a quark... wow.. now
>bringing it back to magnification in a scale where the quark
>functions... i see a cup... so what... can you see to the edge?
>awesome.. do you see heaven? any ideas on how to get there?...

The DDJ may suggest returning
to that state of when, at first,
one was born.

> so
>what. are the imperfections of this place, the one thing removed...
>are they what keep you looking here and there? and have found what?

I have found some conversation here.

It tends to be a ritual, for me, to look,
to reflect, to ponder, to write.

To be at one, at a center.
To be right, by my rite, to write.

This leaves me left
in a good place, satisfied, to be.

For no reason
aside from itself.

No cause.
No ulterior motive.

That lasts, for a spell.

>meanwhile back at the reality...
>
>> Spouting words
>> such as Big Bang or quark
>> might be a quirk of their reality.
>
>hahaha... writes itself... big bang is a theory... like so many, that
>is accepted as fact except for the fact that...

It only goes so far.
It is incomplete.
No mobius. No klein.
No round trip.

It ends at a point.
With everything at nothing.

One returns.

Yet may be less than satisfied.

>> Until a glitch appears.
>
>hahaha... is it a glitch? is that what they call it?

I have no idea who they may be.

Recently, there was an idea
of how glitches and quirks are
what reality can be made of.

These mythical hyper-objects
might enter into mind, at times.

With their might, they present
gifts of what isn't what was
thought to be.

> so then this
>glitch then becomes the one thing to be conquered... not the fact that
>science is wrong... ohhh so painfully wrong...

The method of the hammer
might not work when screws
are involved.

When some other tool
may be better for a situation, science
might be of no use at all.

>> > correct perception might be
>> >experienced.
>>
>> As well, so-called incorrect, illusory phenomena.
>> Incomplete might be another term.
>
>incorrect is the perception that is biased by ones own need to be
>correct... it makes no sense why you can not see it... well, of course
>it does... you know how the tribe treats fuck ups like those...
>
>> What makes correct, correct
>> could have something to do with
>> verification of some sort.
>
>sure. it is called the common Law... a kettle is put on a fire that is
>hot enough for long enough and it boils every time no exceptions...
>jump... fall... no excpetions... odd yes?

It is interesting to me
why and how anomalies occur.

There might be seen, or made, a difference
between common law and other so-called laws.

Societies have their rules and regulations.

Nature might have what are thought
to be regularities and measures.

Rulers vary.
As well as those who use them.
As well as those who are used by them.

> no one wants to prove those
>things. no one has too and yet, as you say, what about what we do not
>know or even better... what we refuse to accept... like failure...
>that is why i practice losing... i find humans incredibly funny when i
>lose as if that is a measure of Law... again, being the devil is about
>trying not to be...
>
>> When others agree
>> then a system may flow
>> and a paradigm emerge, as well
>> as taken as being real. Reified.
>
>democracy... yes of course, i to voted for disneyland this
>christmas... what exactly is it that you believe we have a choice
>about when it comes to jumping and falling?

I believe it is possible to fly.

It is probably less of a choice
than an occurrence.

When the situation is
then a thing happens.

One might walk on water.
Raise the dead. Or be born blind.

When asked, why,
one might have a reason.

Without carving an uncarved block
there are no reasons sought.

> and say we all decide...
>unanimously... no death... does the Law change?

I don't know.

Perhaps, in the future, so to speak,
there may be a shift in consciousness.

In the forms it takes, makes, and might be.

> then it is impossible
>for an entire species or planet to be wrong... happens all the time...
>you are at the beginning of it now...

The mistakes I know
which involve me
and some doing
are many.

To see them as mistakes
can be a frame of reference.

>> >really? what just happened...
>>
>> I don't know,
>> I haven't read past the ellipses.
>
>exactly. but this is meditation for me so we both seem to receive
>benefit from this exchange... i do not do this for you...

I'll try to keep that in mind.

>> >tim is obviously running on a level opf
>> >destruction that is unstoppable, untouchable, at his command and he
>> >continues to escalate... he is going to kill you... but do you stop?
>>
>> Stop what?
>
>what am i using for fuel?

I can stop writing at this point.
That might be a method.

I do wonder what else was written.

Perhaps there was something there for me.
Perhaps it shall be returned to.

- in spacetime

[being]

Wet Paper Bag wrote:

>> >have you ever caught one? a net i mean. then perhaps you can explain
>> >the difference between these...
>>
>> I never used a net to catch butterflies.
>> I used to use my fingers or hands.
>> Never stuck pins in them.
>> But they all died
>> if I tried to keep them.
>
>yet you have thought of using a net yes?

No.

>are you aware of the delicacy of their wings?

Yes.

>a single touch and they crash...

Some of the dust is removed
when using fingers to capture them.

I don't know if it ever returns.
Never explored to that depth.

>> Setting them free
>
>they were free.

Yes.

>> is the way for me to be.
>
>so you catch them first.

I used to.
As a youngster.
Until I stopped, as a youngster.

>> Unfixed, a way to gaze.
>
>on what? actions of ideals?

Simply watching, and appreciating.

>> Not even touching them
>> is probably better yet.
>
>too late now. as i said, your future is built by your past...

If that is the view adopted.

>you removed the one thing. you removed the Law.
>
>> Not with a net.
>> Not on a bet.
>
>a bet?

It rhymed with net
and was all sigh could get
at a moment's
notice.

> there are no statistics for those odds... are you certain you
>are gambling material?

In some ways, yes.
In other ways, no.

>> Eyes may rest
>> as being the best.
>
>well, it is after all for the prettiest. is it worth a bite?

I've never eaten the real ones.
I have eaten my words on occasion.

Thoughts, as butterflies, aye, eyes still
like to capture, to pen. My pen chants.
Inclinations. Seas in waves and particulars.

>> >> Some collectors pin their wings.
>> >> No matter if it kills them.
>>
>> >you are going to die, choose your death...
>>
>> As well as resurrection.
>
>a word that requires some force outside of your self.

There is a view
in which, spontaneously, of-itself-so, ziran, life
arises from death, naturally, cyclically.

To superimpose a force on the process
might be to enforce or reinforce a view.

>> I go to Hell quite often.
>> So far it has yet to keep me down.
>
>but those are people... not gods... a shitty diaper is a shitty
>diaper... can you change it?

Never have.

The diaper needs to want to change.

And if it does, I might be there
or have been there.

I guess when the stink is high enough
then Heaven might become aware of it.

As if Heaven could have a mind
or some form of consciousness
to speak of, of its own.

> then prepare to be uncomfortable until
>you can.

Mostly I simply let go
when a realization takes place
that whatever I was thinking
which might have been possible,
potentially, is beyond me
as a so-called sort
of invidivual.

>> Thinking about the raising from the dead though
>> and how the Jews would not believe it, even if
>> someone were to return from the dead,
>> reminded me of how Jews can be
>> even if they think they aren't.
>
>you are confused ...

That often happens.

> what do you mean Jew...

I had meant, those people
who are unable to believe
someone rose from the dead
even if someone rose
from the dead.

It's a kind of poetic license,
to apply a term across a board.

A general generality,
sew two-speak.

> the day that work of art
>Picasso died his work was priceless... he never saw a dime and lived
>in misery... a tortured genius... but jesus? took 65 years... after he
>died... solomon met the same end.

It is amazing, to me, how,
assuming various realities of truth,
the eleven who walked and talked
and were there, with Jesus, were
unable to understand the process.

Even if Peter walked on water.

Even though they knew a guy
who was blind from birth
and then was able to see.

Even Mary and Martha and though
their brother was raised from the dead,
they did not recognize Jesus
when he rose.

Very strange place,
such a reality.

>> If somebody cannot accept
>> Jesus having risen from being dead
>> then perhaps that person could be called
>> a Jew, by any other name.
>
>then call me a Jew... i have never died...

I die, in a way, whenever falling
into a form of sleep.

Awakening
tends to happen
on its own.

> it gives people hope in a
>time of death...
>
>> - funny, t'hats
>
>but is it really, REALLY funny?

Well, yes and no.

Sometimes strange
can be a muse singing
songs when being
amused by the Internet.

[Wet Paper Bag]

On May 11, 8:52 am, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> By that apparent definition of real,
> QM, GR, and anything else one has not experienced
> for oneself is not real.

yes. it is called a compass... instinctual and intuitive... before
words... before impossible things...

> > why do you use them to try and support your case?
>
> I was not making a case.

but that is the point... i am... zen nationals are next week and the
best offering we have is monkey.... see his most recent zen on this
thread?...

> What the OP wrote had something in it
> to the effect that he had never seen a detailed
> description of Heaven.

so what do you do... sex is the root of the primate... remove sex and
it is not heaven... c'mon... give some ground here buddha.

> My response was that there are many
> to be found if one cares to search a bit.

your response... lol... and my explanation for your response is that
you discover say... an alchemical relationship for one set of
numbers... enlightenment... a priori... and that, rather than work it
all out, the glitch is you move onto the next one, and the next one...
the edge... that is the thrill... yes?

> I then provided links.

not real. really being, you are becoming burdensome... you set your
stakes, we agreed on your conditions... please, jump, you are getting
a little glitchy yes?

> Personally, I have never seen a blue whale.

wow. a blue whale? really. no idea huh? does the blue whale have a
name? i have never seen a fhyt kdhas... no idea... you? then perhaps
we can give it one...

> Yet, if somebody appeared to me to be asking
> for a detailed description of a whale, I might
> provide some links to photos and descriptions.

those would not be details then would they be? fact-similes.
buzzzzzz....

> The idea that they aren't mine
> did not, as far as I knew, make any difference.

enthusiasm sells. flipping a coin here... have you ever sky dived? i
have. what could i possibly tell you about it? pictures? video? what?

> I could have read the OP wrong tho.
> That's a definite possibility.

ahhh c'mon now, that is so weak... very lame... jump, but i might be
wrong.

> >> Yogananda lived recently.
> >> Maybe he wrote about the truth.
> >> I like to believe he did.
>
> >not real. someone else's experience. maybe.
>
> If it happened, then it happened.

and that is what is fruit of action... fructified... and yet to be
fructified... the one thing, the Law, does not influence this...
subtle i know but dwell on it...

> I have not been to the Moon.

hahaha... dwell on it.

> Some people think nobody has been there.

i have not been there but i have seen pictures...

> I like to think people have been there.

confession master... you like to think... do you?

> Call it a form of faith.

an acceptable form of faith i extended...

> >faith is action based on perception and belief... it is called a leap
> >of faith... non-doing, in context, is not faith... thus death and the
> >devil are at a cliff... the point so many miss when it comes to being
> >me... death points out the belief... the devil mocks the absurdity of
> >the action... neither change the conditions of the Law... both are on
> >the same side of belief... do you have faith or belief?...
>
> Whenever I stand up, I have faith
> that my feet and legs will support me.

have you ever stood up with faith and fallen?

> I tend to believe that has to do
> with how spacetime is topographically curved
> which used to be known as gravity.

i tend to believe... very good. i like that...

> My explanations and theories and beliefs
> often include what I've learned from other people.

no, they are excluded... experience model of your own design... but
known...

> My faith usually includes some action or inaction.

even in inaction, action... i think not to act as a matter of faith...
that if the Way is as it is, the Laws, as they are not how i think
they can be... then in the face of wickedness... i think it best here
to stand my ground and do nothing until faith becomes automatic...

> >sure. but you are dodging the question...
>
> I am often dense.
> Missing a point is not necessarily a dodge.

naw... no good... lame, very, very lame... if i were that type of
fellow that would strike down your faith... if i were that kind of
guy... it doesn't wash... it is only half a faith, like a half
truth... if i were as strong and tough as you i would kick your bully
ass into the deepest pits of hell... but i am not so i suffer... i
guess i choose this state over any other since it is the only faith i
know...

>
> I normally see things from many povs.

really? does each pov have its own voice?... then consider i am God...
you want to be me for some unknown... here is the point on which i
push... and all who push on this point are here...

> I like to think Mother Earth can take care of herself.
> Mother Nature is an even greater form of being.

you like to think... and nothing gets done... does that sound like do
nothing and everything gets done? or more like you missed the ark...

>
> Science, and the scientific method, can be a tool.
>
> Tools don't destroy the world.

and ultimately every hack no matter how great and vast the artificial
environment all comes down to the human element...

> A hammer requires a user of it to smash things.
> By itself, it sits on the shelf or in a drawer or shed.

you can chop down a tree with a hammer.

> Applications often have unintended consequences.

apologetic... doesn't wash... you focus on a to b... that is the aim
and the accomplishment... but as the Law of karma goes... you do not
see every possible consequence of action and thus, concentrically,
every possible karma is fructified... a buttery fly and its wings...

> Scientific methodology often includes motivations
> to improve, if not perfect, some perceived notion
> of how things might be some other way.

it is immediately suspicious yes?

> It can be a very powerful too.

let's kill something.

> I am unfamiliar with that term, kabylion.

the crown jewel of the hermetic tradition... it is a book... i
recommend it.

> When a thing doesn't work
> then a cause-effect paradigm may be useful.

i am getting dizzy... you?... yes, the one thing is the Law... like
awareness... what is this Law until something gets set in motion? and
what you have done to your dwelling is perpetually ask the old light
in the fridge question... are the Laws still there? yup.

> When everything is fine
> to try and find out why, what the causes are,
> might be to go on a fun chase after wild geese.

true... ttc "to see it one must be desireless"... how does this
statement coincide with your just above?

> > nothin gmakes sense
> >and thus you tell yourself that must be what it is...
>
> I often adopt whatever pov satisfies me.

politics. i get it... but how much life force do you waste to keep it
hidden? to prevent realization and discovery? to keep building blocks
to hide what is, the karma behind the wall... that is, after all what
you need to move forward... you can use a hammer to chop down a
tree... i am not kidding...

> At times, a Hindu view incorporating Self
> can be a key to the legend of a Map.

yes. again... the one thing is what it is... many maps, many scales of
measure, many words, many calculations of time, many cultures...
Istanbul was Constantinople...

> At times, a Daoist view sits well.
> Refreshing waters it provides me with.

again... damn it... a daoist view sits... you are not the dao... you
are not the Law... you may sit and see or you may do and reap... but
you are not the Law...


> One aim might be.

then here... i do not know if it is the real lugh or not... but rumour
has it that is was built by dwarves... three magick items of such
insane value that they served to kill loki... well, again,
exceptions... shut him up when he saw what was possible... a spear,
sir being, that no matter how poorly thrown... hits every time...

> Another aim could be pure research.

i see that... but what is pure if the intention is not? what is the
science if the glitch become the one thing to get around rather than
what the science is? this is ttc do and reap...

> A perfectly good watch
> might have been taken apart
> to see what makes it tick.

do not pick up the pen being... was it constructed by the opposite
process?

> Not to make a better watch.

not to make a watch at all...

> Lots of potential motives
> might float a round.

to escape or to flow?... flow is one motive...

> Random, to me, usually means
> unpredictable at some level.

yes... and yet flow... are these shifts not seamless?

> There are statistics for dice, coins, etc.,
> when taken in large quantities.

no. there are no statistics for random events... statistically
speaking "when"...

> Any one flip or roll is not uncaused
> but what turns up might be uncertain
> on any given flip or roll.

undesired... but certain.

> Too many variables to compute.

heads or tails... one coin... confused?

> Too many initial conditions
> to which an outcome is sensitive.

no. one initial condition.

> >not entirely. what is it doing that can be done?
>
> Dao, according to the DDJ, never does anything.
> Dao is always wu-wei. It has no mind, no motive.

then as we pointed out previously in this post... sit and what? care
to repeat it?

> Water could be said to carve mountains,
> make valleys, nourish all things.
>
> Without effort. With no intent. Wu-wei.

water does not carve mountains... a part of its nature but not all of
its dog... ever seen a levy at flood season... effort or just an
uncentered power to move... as i said... and again... i am God... i
push on this one thing... to be me, push here and here you are.

> >> Dao tends to be a favorite of mine.
>
> >what part?
>
> Often in terms of a unity of polarities.

no. zen is the unity... but reading chapter 1 backwards... it becomes,
as the first division... black and white... no black in white, no
white in black... so, if you fall on this side or that side...
following Tao? hold up one thing that is black. show me white... hold
in your hand this ember from the fire... ahhhh hahahaha... show me
cold.

> To think, for example, in terms of either-or,
> at times lifts my thoughts to a more
> inclusive level of consciousness.

winds them up you mean...

> Some might propose a narrow-band
> or narrow-minded form of thought.

open focus... let go of the cup without dropping the water...

> As if, either there is
> or there is not
> any form of Heaven.

odd yes? you get wound up, narrow minded thought and you randomly roll
a heaven...

> With what I like to see as a Dao pov,
> there is a Way beyond both the is
> and is-not frames of reference.
>
> This Way includes both
> but itself is neither.

standard IHVH/Tetragrammaton formula... the prince... i say red and
you think... the princess...

> It is That
> from which polarities emerge.

the princess? no. she must first replace the queen... a new open,
fresher receptivity...

> Reflection, probably.
> Sitting still. Wu-xin perhaps. Wu-ji. Wu.

but when you think reflection you think mirror... not window... it
only reflects what is inside... you can see it if you look... but what
is outside is not reflected on the pain... you would have to go
outside to see it... what are you looking at through the window?

> Reversal.

we shall see being if you are still skilled enough to pull one off...
we have already qualified for the nationals... but alas, good times,
old school, glory days... we are too odd to compete now... we have to
hand this off but fuck man... bassos? albion? monkey? x?... i am not
prepared to roll those dice... our margin is narrow...

> From 10k may be viewed how
> they were, previously, proverbally, three.
> From the three, there were, before that,
> ontologically, two. The two arose from one.

or perhaps a physics a warning... venture to far and danger will
descend from above...

> It may say in the DDJ how
> all things arise from Being
> and Being from Nonbeing.

yes. consciousness arises with object... there is no clearer way of
saying this... but without an object, there is no consciousness... can
not awareness be without form?


> Wu.

what... what.. what the hell is that... are you ok?

> Mine are mine.
> Yours are yours.
> Theirs are theirs.
> His is his. Hers, hers.

perhaps... or perhaps it is mine not because i posses it but because
it has possessed me... like... this is my team... not because it is
mine or that i am the star... but because i belong to it...

> Okay.
> Right now, this very instant, I am sitting.

don't stand up... hold that pen forever if you believe you are
opposite and superior to me.

> Here, in front of a screen, typing.
> You are, now, reading.

really? because the way i read this wu..." i " am, now, reading
this...

> It might be a form of Heaven.
> It might be a form of Hell.
>
> It might be a form of consciousness.
> Lots of forms might be involved.

it might be adjectives and not the thing in and of itself...
awareness... the Law... is the Law still there? cause and effect...
yup... let's give it some time then... maybe the glitch will iron
itself out tomorrow...

> Whatever there is, there is.

what is, is. agreed.

> Your experience of it has not happened.

you are violating your own conditions here being... you do not know.

> Depending on what it is, it might be thought
> to have been there previously, or not.

depend that it is being... that it is... is it still there? why must
you look? can't you see it? still see it?... action... yup... still
there fuck... a glitch...

> Swimming, for example, I would tend to say
> does not exist unless some body is swimming.

c'mon, i know you are old but this is simply unacceptable... want to
go swimming?... are you confused?

> The screen you are looking at right now,
> I would tend to suppose, does exist
> even when you are not looking at it.

it would only cease to exist where it is if it is moved... today...
red... everywhere, and the correspondence is tim... when you see red,
become aware of red... you will think tim... and the more you resist,
the more painful this truth will become...

> It tends to be compelling, for me,
> to believe there is, and to act as if there is,
> objective forms of reality independent
> of my frame of reference.

what we see may be different... but seamless... i say see the cup? it
is red. there is no accord here but for the treaty that we both accept
that whatever colour it is, we shall call it red...

> Exactly what those forms are,
> in and of themselves, without me experiencing
> them in any way, or form, might be impossible
> for me to know.

beauty. the basis of selection. you might be wrong... the best wrapped
gifts are generally the lousy ones... treasure hunter... go and select
a handful of beautiful women... now find what they looked like as
children... find them, woo them... and wait... applications is why i
am real being... fucking air head... hahaha...

> I might change my pov.
> Look at a different map.

then you are a fool not a master... why do you hump this group if it
is dry?... that you can change your pov... that is not mastery, that
is not even student... fuck off being... you do not belong here and i
will not enertain your flocks any longer...

> - in spacetime

whatever... soundtime... in space... let me know when it sinks in...

<ok you guys what's up... wifi bandwidth? powerful signal that has not
failed... on a saturday morning... now i know you are joking... what
are you freaks up to?>

Lucifer

[Wet Paper Bag]

On May 11, 9:50 am, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> >> I never used a net to catch butterflies.
> >> I used to use my fingers or hands.
> >> Never stuck pins in them.
> >> But they all died
> >> if I tried to keep them.
>
> >yet you have thought of using a net yes?
>
> No.

hm. this diagnosis is going south being... you have never thought of
using a net or is it you have never acted to make or find then
ultilize a net to catch butterflies?

> >are you aware of the delicacy of their wings?
>
> Yes.
>
> >a single touch and they crash...
>
> Some of the dust is removed
> when using fingers to capture them.

a net would be better then yes?

> I don't know if it ever returns.
> Never explored to that depth.

a delicate balance of pollen and fairy dust...

> >> Setting them free
>
> >they were free.
>
> Yes.

oh... well... a start i suppose... the net doesn't matter now does it?

> I used to.
> As a youngster.
> Until I stopped, as a youngster.

i jumped as a youngster... do you think it matters when? if you know?
if you are blind?

> >> Unfixed, a way to gaze.
>
> >on what? actions of ideals?
>
> Simply watching, and appreciating.

and touching... what is the white powdery stuff on your fingers and
around your nose?

> If that is the view adopted.

you are certainly free not to believe... adopt flying and prove me
wrong.

> In some ways, yes.
> In other ways, no.

ahhh special relativity... my favorite subject... if you were a dog
you could lick your own balls... and ass too... can you do these
things?... have you at one time or another desired to do these things
to yourself?... what else are you not... as a point... as they say...
or negation...

> >well, it is after all for the prettiest. is it worth a bite?
>
> I've never eaten the real ones.
> I have eaten my words on occasion.

obviously... no one has ever finished one past a bite... just a
glimmer or hope... thought you might be the one being...

> There is a view
> in which, spontaneously, of-itself-so, ziran, life
> arises from death, naturally, cyclically.

good analogy... to bad in your hands it only sounds anal... yes, like
breathing... when i think i am not breathing, i am breathing... when i
think that i am breathing... then try to breathe... it gets...
harder... can you prove it right now where you are? see the difference
between us?

> To superimpose a force on the process
> might be to enforce or reinforce a view.

well... but that is not the case is it... it deteriorates under those
conditions...

> >but those are people... not gods... a shitty diaper is a shitty
> >diaper... can you change it?
>
> Never have.

what? now i know you are joking, your own terms... pov all the time...

>
> The diaper needs to want to change.

no, the baby needs to want to change... the diaper can go on
collecting forever...

> And if it does, I might be there
> or have been there.
>
> I guess when the stink is high enough
> then Heaven might become aware of it.

hahaha... fools! look around you being... look at these cesspools of
belief... that you can through good or evil (ignorance of course since
your definition of evil only serves to undermine the word)... through
devotion, through action, through debauchery summon me to reveal...
all these ways and yet... who?

> As if Heaven could have a mind
> or some form of consciousness
> to speak of, of its own.

i know... really... as if...

> Mostly I simply let go
> when a realization takes place

sure... run away and hide... assume no responsibility... prep the
goat... ignore that you jumped and now... whatever you want... until
the end... no more bets... and now we wait... around and around and
around...

> I had meant, those people
> who are unable to believe
> someone rose from the dead
> even if someone rose
> from the dead.

oh make no mistake about it being... they believe... but as is the
cycle of life and re-birth... they prepared to prevent it from
happening again... you know like then... it was ok to send out a
decree that every first born should be killed to protect herod...
harder to do these days... and now, it seems, the messiah refuses to
die... making the Jews pause and wonder if, in fact, this diaper and
only this diaper... that life has no where else to go...

it is all i can do to stay silent to allow those who have fallen the
opportunity to save some face...

> It is amazing, to me, how,
> assuming various realities of truth,
> the eleven who walked and talked
> and were there, with Jesus, were
> unable to understand the process.

the seed being... they could not understand it... but the seed was
set, they could see it... now push pull of all those who would desire
it... ripped me apart... but! you may take from the one flame
forever... and once lit... although you can be put out... you can
never put it back... to unknow is the problem with revelations...

> Even if Peter walked on water.

hydration... water as a fuel broken down in the cells... gives of
energy... static energy... as water breaks into air...power, chi...
fueled with prana?... you may go a very long way indeed...

> Even though they knew a guy
> who was blind from birth
> and then was able to see.

perhaps grasshopper, he was looking with the wrong eyes... or perhaps
with the wrong analogy... like saul... he saw it one way... one
thing... then, he saw me another way...

> Even Mary and Martha and though
> their brother was raised from the dead,
> they did not recognize Jesus
> when he rose.

a strange parallel analogy yes? a puzzle... have you ever seen "the
last temptation of christ"?

> Very strange place,
> such a reality.

was it? or did we find some 2000 year old books... a glitch... dead
languages... so we make shit up to suit or new found ancient powers...
did moses part the red sea is, as the story goes on, did they mean the
red sea as in the desert... if you want to pull those miracles apart
just recall that the Law now was the Law then... so if we accept the
seven plaques of moses... we only need to understand the plot and the
conspiracy and his motivation...

> I die, in a way, whenever falling
> into a form of sleep.
>
> Awakening
> tends to happen
> on its own.

you are still in the body. the object that arose and occupied your
consciousness reducing your awareness to a latent potential... you
have convinced yourself that you are your consciousness... your
object... thus, when the body sleeps, there seems to be nothing to do
giving you the illusion that it is off... and off you go... until you
dream... until something small and near imperceptible squeaks and you
stir... what? what? what? what?... it wants to know...


> Well, yes and no.

let me rephrase... is it bill funny coz man that guy can spontaneously
laugh and laugh and laugh... and everyone is like... wtf is that
funny... and bill is like... i don't know!

> Sometimes strange
> can be a muse singing
> songs when being
> amused by the Internet.

awww... master... so deep...

Lucifer

[being]

Wet Paper Bag wrote:

> being wrote:
>
>> By that apparent definition of real,
>> QM, GR, and anything else one has not experienced
>> for oneself is not real.
>
>yes. it is called a compass... instinctual and intuitive... before
>words... before impossible things...
>
>> > why do you use them to try and support your case?
>>
>> I was not making a case.
>
>but that is the point... i am... zen nationals are next week and the
>best offering we have is monkey.... see his most recent zen on this
>thread?...

I have not.

The only words he appeared to have written
which caught my attention and held my interest
enough to respond had to do with the detailed
description of Heaven.

I doubt if he was interested in it though.

>> What the OP wrote had something in it
>> to the effect that he had never seen a detailed
>> description of Heaven.
>
>so what do you do...

I provided some details.
Links. Testimony.

>sex is the root of the primate... remove sex and
>it is not heaven... c'mon... give some ground here buddha.

Heaven, for many, might include sex.
There were said to be many mansions.

I think Bob Dylan wrote about it
in a song once, near Highway 61 maybe,
give or take some ground then there.

Eternity. Paradise. Heaven.
It's not a house, it's a home.

Perhaps carry water
if going that way.

http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/ballad-frankie-lee-and-judas-priest

>> My response was that there are many
>> to be found if one cares to search a bit.
>
>your response... lol... and my explanation for your response is that
>you discover say... an alchemical relationship for one set of
>numbers... enlightenment... a priori... and that, rather than work it
>all out, the glitch is you move onto the next one, and the next one...
>the edge... that is the thrill... yes?

I don't know.
Penning thoughts is fine.

Not much of a thrill for me
as far as thrills thrill me.

There is some pleasure there to share
if someone happens to be interested
in nei-dan, kundalini, etc.

>> I then provided links.
>
>not real. really being, you are becoming burdensome... you set your
>stakes, we agreed on your conditions...

I have no idea what you're talking about.

> please, jump, you are getting
>a little glitchy yes?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

>> Personally, I have never seen a blue whale.
>
>wow. a blue whale? really. no idea huh?

I have ideas. But no experience.

If experience is the criterion
for determining what reality is
then, in that case, blue whales
are not real, except for those
who have experienced them.

It might beg the question
what is meant by the term, experience.

> does the blue whale have a name?

Feel free to search out any names you wish.
Probably there's some Latin name.
Its surname might be cetacean.

There could be those who study them
who have given them individual names.

> i have never seen a fhyt kdhas... no idea... you?

No idea.

> then perhaps
>we can give it one...

If you would like to.

>> Yet, if somebody appeared to me to be asking
>> for a detailed description of a whale, I might
>> provide some links to photos and descriptions.
>
>those would not be details then would they be?

The descriptions would include details.

> fact-similes.

Reasonable.

When satisfaction is reached
then the quest ions cease.

>buzzzzzz....
>
>> The idea that they aren't mine
>> did not, as far as I knew, make any difference.
>
>enthusiasm sells. flipping a coin here... have you ever sky dived?

Nope.

> i
>have. what could i possibly tell you about it? pictures? video? what?

Whatever you care to share.

The thrill. The rush. If there were those.

Putting them into words might be a challenge.

Somebody might challenge, in response, that
what you experienced does not exist.

You might present evidence of some sort.
Evidence might be accepted or rejected.

Anecdotes might not count.

You could then try to talk the challenger
into going up into a plane with you.

But if the challenger refuses
then sky diving might be out of the question.

No explanation possible.

>> I could have read the OP wrong tho.
>> That's a definite possibility.
>
>ahhh c'mon now, that is so weak... very lame... jump, but i might be
>wrong.
>
>> >> Yogananda lived recently.
>> >> Maybe he wrote about the truth.
>> >> I like to believe he did.
>>
>> >not real. someone else's experience. maybe.
>>
>> If it happened, then it happened.
>
>and that is what is fruit of action... fructified... and yet to be
>fructified... the one thing, the Law, does not influence this...
>subtle i know but dwell on it...
>
>> I have not been to the Moon.
>
>hahaha... dwell on it.
>
>> Some people think nobody has been there.
>
>i have not been there but i have seen pictures...
>
>> I like to think people have been there.
>
>confession master... you like to think... do you?

Yes. At times. Very much.
At other times, not so much.

>> Call it a form of faith.
>
>an acceptable form of faith i extended...
>
>
>> >faith is action based on perception and belief... it is called a leap
>> >of faith... non-doing, in context, is not faith... thus death and the
>> >devil are at a cliff... the point so many miss when it comes to being
>> >me... death points out the belief... the devil mocks the absurdity of
>> >the action... neither change the conditions of the Law... both are on
>> >the same side of belief... do you have faith or belief?...
>>
>> Whenever I stand up, I have faith
>> that my feet and legs will support me.
>
>have you ever stood up with faith and fallen?

Not that I recall.
Sometimes a limb may fall asleep.
That's a strange situation.

Yes.
For me that's usually normal.

> does each pov have its own voice?...

Not that I am able to discern.

> then consider i am God...

Okay.

>you want to be me for some unknown...

Okay. When you say, "me"
I assume you mean the body
that has the fingers that typed
the words as written, above.

> here is the point on which i
>push... and all who push on this point are here...

Everyone wants to be God
in the form that you happen to be?

Why can't they be God
in the form they happen to be?

Among the views I enjoy
includes one in which all so-called individuals
are avatars. Each is limited by environment.
Each able to do as can be done.

Many, probably most, are unaware
at surface levels of awareness.

Being the brains of the Universe
they might think the Universe
has no brains at all.

Tis a funny thing, ore cans be.

>> I like to think Mother Earth can take care of herself.
>> Mother Nature is an even greater form of being.
>
>you like to think...

Some thoughts please me
more than other thoughts.

> and nothing gets done... does that sound like do
>nothing and everything gets done? or more like you missed the ark...

Perhaps it was a sine.
Then again, a cosine.
A tangent, maybe.

>> Science, and the scientific method, can be a tool.
>>
>> Tools don't destroy the world.
>
>and ultimately every hack no matter how great and vast the artificial
>environment all comes down to the human element...
>
>> A hammer requires a user of it to smash things.
>> By itself, it sits on the shelf or in a drawer or shed.
>
>you can chop down a tree with a hammer.
>
>> Applications often have unintended consequences.
>
>apologetic... doesn't wash... you focus on a to b... that is the aim
>and the accomplishment... but as the Law of karma goes... you do not
>see every possible consequence of action and thus, concentrically,
>every possible karma is fructified... a buttery fly and its wings...
>
>> Scientific methodology often includes motivations
>> to improve, if not perfect, some perceived notion
>> of how things might be some other way.
>
>it is immediately suspicious yes?

At times action is spontaneous.

At times, reflection and improvisation
might improve upon a situation.

On one level, that's only natural.
On another level, it's entirely artificial.
On yet a third level, it's useless, vain,
exercises in futility. And then again,
on another level, exercises are
not all bad. In a fifth dimension
not all good nor all bad may
be unified by some field
of theory that flowers.

>> It can be a very powerful too.
>
>let's kill something.
>
>
>> I am unfamiliar with that term, kabylion.
>
>the crown jewel of the hermetic tradition... it is a book... i
>recommend it.
>
>> When a thing doesn't work
>> then a cause-effect paradigm may be useful.
>
>i am getting dizzy... you?...

Not at the moment.

> yes, the one thing is the Law... like
>awareness... what is this Law until something gets set in motion? and
>what you have done to your dwelling is perpetually ask the old light
>in the fridge question... are the Laws still there? yup.

Until a glitch appears.

>> When everything is fine
>> to try and find out why, what the causes are,
>> might be to go on a fun chase after wild geese.
>
>true... ttc "to see it one must be desireless"... how does this
>statement coincide with your just above?

When something is broken
and a desire to fix it bubbles up
then one is aware of manifestations,
causes and effects. Outlines. Cut-outs.
Differentiations. Conscious awareness
it turned toward the situation.

Being without desire, the inlines,
figure-ground reversals, may appear
on one's field of view.

Whether a vase
or two faces.

Oar both.
Ore neither.

Seen very close, pixels. Quanta.
Seen far away, a pale blue dot.

At a middle macro plane,
Euclidean perspective makes take holds.

>> > nothin gmakes sense
>> >and thus you tell yourself that must be what it is...
>>
>> I often adopt whatever pov satisfies me.
>
>politics. i get it...

At times, politics. Ugh. But true.

At times, simply observation.
Looking at maps, for the sake of looking.
It happens that I enjoy maps.

> but how much life force do you waste to keep it
>hidden? to prevent realization and discovery? to keep building blocks
>to hide what is, the karma behind the wall... that is, after all what
>you need to move forward... you can use a hammer to chop down a
>tree... i am not kidding...

I am not sure what you are referring to.

Being hidden in plain sight
there is nothing being kept.

People, some people, appear to have capacity.

Capacities, akin to avatars, are limited.

Growth rates also tend to be limited.

A monkey might always be a monkey.
It certainly appears to me to be that way.

Perhaps, if it's in the cards, the ground
might get turned over a bit. A molecule
could be organic, fall, take root, and
eventually sprout.

But the increase is not mine to give,
being, in the form of, a so-called individual.

I don't always think I'm God.
Too much of a burden at times.
Too much drama.

In such a case, I like to take a view
where I'm just an old fart.

>> At times, a Hindu view incorporating Self
>> can be a key to the legend of a Map.
>
>yes. again... the one thing is what it is... many maps, many scales of
>measure, many words, many calculations of time, many cultures...
>Istanbul was Constantinople...

And the Dardanelles were named
after a son of a son of Tamar.

Zeus was Jew-pater.
Deified by his children.

England was New Troy.
Ireland is of the Red Hand.
As it was written, thou sands
of y'ears, a go, for an age.

Some say they still hold the scepter
while the other promises are Joseph's.

The Joes took over the world,
colonized it. Pushed everyone around.

Jews are figure-heads.
Scape-goats. Sitting on thrones.
Coronation stone. Jacob's pillar.
Sure. Why not knot.

History, archaeology, evidence abounds.
Few have eyes, ears, nor will, to seek it.

>> At times, a Daoist view sits well.
>> Refreshing waters it provides me with.
>
>again... damn it... a daoist view sits... you are not the dao...

In most of my ways of seeing, I agree.

There is a view in which one is Dao.

At times that appears to be magnified
and clear as a bell.

> you
>are not the Law... you may sit and see or you may do and reap... but
>you are not the Law...

I'm not sure what you're pointing at.
What you mean by, " the Law."

>> One aim might be.
>
>then here... i do not know if it is the real lugh or not... but rumour
>has it that is was built by dwarves... three magick items of such
>insane value that they served to kill loki... well, again,
>exceptions... shut him up when he saw what was possible... a spear,
>sir being, that no matter how poorly thrown... hits every time...
>
>> Another aim could be pure research.
>
>i see that... but what is pure if the intention is not?

Reminds me of when
wrong man uses right method
then right method becomes wrong.

As well, as vice-versa.

> what is the
>science if the glitch become the one thing to get around rather than
>what the science is? this is ttc do and reap...

A view I enjoy very much, a passage,
is how the world is sacred. Shen.

To try and fix it,
even to try to change it,
is to lose it.

Letting everything alone
can be, at times, a best way
for mud to settle.

Zhuangzi was akin to a turtle.
He druther wag his tale in the mud
than be a pompous ass.

>> A perfectly good watch
>> might have been taken apart
>> to see what makes it tick.
>
>do not pick up the pen being... was it constructed by the opposite
>process?

I am unsure what you are referring to.

>> Not to make a better watch.
>
>not to make a watch at all...

Agriculture might be a bane
as well as a population boon.

>> Lots of potential motives
>> might float a round.
>
>to escape or to flow?... flow is one motive...

The guy known as noname
sometimes goes on a hunt for Dao.

I'm not sure if he wants to kill it
when he finds it.

His motive might be pure in ways.
No matter how much of an oxymoron
it may sound to me as being.

>> Random, to me, usually means
>> unpredictable at some level.
>
>yes... and yet flow... are these shifts not seamless?

Perhaps.
They might be quantum leaping.

Probably they are continuous states.

Even if they occur while sleeping,
and appear to be discrete from day to day,
it could hinge on the magnification power
used to take such a watch apart.

I see them as cycles quite often.

Going from a peak to a pit is sudden
but not discontinuous.

The graph might have spikes.
The curve, sharp points.
Undifferentialbe in a way, maybe.
Given various equations.

>> There are statistics for dice, coins, etc.,
>> when taken in large quantities.
>
>no. there are no statistics for random events... statistically
>speaking "when"...

My impression of QM
is that the phenomena are random
as individual points are plotted
but very predictable in quantities.

>> Any one flip or roll is not uncaused
>> but what turns up might be uncertain
>> on any given flip or roll.
>
>undesired... but certain.
>
>> Too many variables to compute.
>
>heads or tails... one coin... confused?

Difficult if not impossible
to determine all the variables.

How much force was applied to the flip.
What was in the air at the time.

I don't know if a mechanical flipper
could be, or has been, designed
which is able to flip a coin the same
at each and every time.

The temperature of the surface
on which the coin lands
might be a variable.

As well as the composition,
if it's dirt, or a table, etc.

>> Too many initial conditions
>> to which an outcome is sensitive.
>
>no. one initial condition.

I'm not sure what you're saying.

>> >not entirely. what is it doing that can be done?
>>
>> Dao, according to the DDJ, never does anything.
>> Dao is always wu-wei. It has no mind, no motive.
>
>then as we pointed out previously in this post... sit and what? care
>to repeat it?

Not sure what it is.

At times, let the mud settle.
At times, spontaneously grab the spoon.
At times there is no spoon.
At times, invent one.

>> Water could be said to carve mountains,
>> make valleys, nourish all things.
>>
>> Without effort. With no intent. Wu-wei.
>
>water does not carve mountains...

Figures of speech
may skate on thin ice.

> a part of its nature but not all of
>its dog... ever seen a levy at flood season...

Not personally.
On the cable, yes.

> effort or just an
>uncentered power to move... as i said... and again... i am God... i
>push on this one thing... to be me, push here and here you are.
>
>> >> Dao tends to be a favorite of mine.
>>
>> >what part?
>>
>> Often in terms of a unity of polarities.
>
>no. zen is the unity... but reading chapter 1 backwards... it becomes,
>as the first division... black and white... no black in white, no
>white in black... so, if you fall on this side or that side...
>following Tao? hold up one thing that is black. show me white... hold
>in your hand this ember from the fire... ahhhh hahahaha... show me
>cold.
>
>
>> To think, for example, in terms of either-or,
>> at times lifts my thoughts to a more
>> inclusive level of consciousness.
>
>winds them up you mean...
>
>> Some might propose a narrow-band
>> or narrow-minded form of thought.
>
>open focus... let go of the cup without dropping the water...
>
>> As if, either there is
>> or there is not
>> any form of Heaven.
>
>odd yes?

Even still,
a way in which many think
and do not appear to be able
to think in any other ways
nor terms.

> you get wound up, narrow minded thought and you randomly roll
>a heaven...

Breaking on thru
an other side may be found.

>> With what I like to see as a Dao pov,
>> there is a Way beyond both the is
>> and is-not frames of reference.
>>
>> This Way includes both
>> but itself is neither.
>
>standard IHVH/Tetragrammaton formula... the prince... i say red and
>you think... the princess...
>
>> It is That
>> from which polarities emerge.
>
>the princess? no. she must first replace the queen... a new open,
>fresher receptivity...

I have no idea what you're talking about.

>> Reflection, probably.
>> Sitting still. Wu-xin perhaps. Wu-ji. Wu.
>
>but when you think reflection you think mirror...

More akin to meditation.
No dust. No mirror.
Yet, reflections
dew occur.

> not window... it
>only reflects what is inside... you can see it if you look... but what
>is outside is not reflected on the pain... you would have to go
>outside to see it... what are you looking at through the window?

Whatever happens to be in view.

Some of my minds tend to differentiate.

Neurons and their networks name
what appears to appear as
being separate.

>> Reversal.
>
>we shall see being if you are still skilled enough to pull one off...
>we have already qualified for the nationals... but alas, good times,
>old school, glory days... we are too odd to compete now... we have to
>hand this off but fuck man... bassos? albion? monkey? x?... i am not
>prepared to roll those dice... our margin is narrow...
>
>> From 10k may be viewed how
>> they were, previously, proverbally, three.
>> From the three, there were, before that,
>> ontologically, two. The two arose from one.
>
>or perhaps a physics a warning... venture to far and danger will
>descend from above...
>
>> It may say in the DDJ how
>> all things arise from Being
>> and Being from Nonbeing.
>
>yes. consciousness arises with object... there is no clearer way of
>saying this... but without an object, there is no consciousness... can
>not awareness be without form?

Perhaps.

I'm not sure what to say of it though.

>> Wu.
>
>what... what.. what the hell is that... are you ok?

As far as eye cans sea.

>> Mine are mine.
>> Yours are yours.
>> Theirs are theirs.
>> His is his. Hers, hers.
>
>perhaps... or perhaps it is mine not because i posses it but because
>it has possessed me... like... this is my team... not because it is
>mine or that i am the star... but because i belong to it...

Yes.
There are those various levels.

As God, it can be all yours.
Or, not all yours. You might make the call.
Or, you might not make the call.

>> Okay.
>> Right now, this very instant, I am sitting.
>
>don't stand up... hold that pen forever if you believe you are
>opposite and superior to me.
>
>> Here, in front of a screen, typing.
>> You are, now, reading.
>
>really? because the way i read this wu..." i " am, now, reading
>this...
>
>> It might be a form of Heaven.
>> It might be a form of Hell.
>>
>> It might be a form of consciousness.
>> Lots of forms might be involved.
>
>it might be adjectives and not the thing in and of itself...
>awareness... the Law... is the Law still there? cause and effect...
>yup... let's give it some time then... maybe the glitch will iron
>itself out tomorrow...
>
>> Whatever there is, there is.
>
>what is, is. agreed.
>
>
>> Your experience of it has not happened.
>
>you are violating your own conditions here being... you do not know.

I have no idea what I was saying.

Normally I try to avoid using the pronoun,
second person singular, when speaking
or writing in general about people.

Why I wrote, "you"
is beyond me at the moment.

Maybe you snipped something
that might have helped clarify the meaning.

You may have been referring to yourself
in a given hypothetical situation.

My memory fails to produce or reproduce
the initiating motive of the response.

>> Depending on what it is, it might be thought
>> to have been there previously, or not.
>
>depend that it is being... that it is... is it still there? why must
>you look? can't you see it? still see it?... action... yup... still
>there fuck... a glitch...
>
>> Swimming, for example, I would tend to say
>> does not exist unless some body is swimming.
>
>c'mon, i know you are old but this is simply unacceptable... want to
>go swimming?... are you confused?

At the moment, yes.
I have no idea what you're talking about.

>> The screen you are looking at right now,
>> I would tend to suppose, does exist
>> even when you are not looking at it.
>
>it would only cease to exist where it is if it is moved... today...
>red... everywhere, and the correspondence is tim... when you see red,
>become aware of red... you will think tim... and the more you resist,
>the more painful this truth will become...

Red is akin to a rainbow.
When looked at it is there.

Without an eye, there is no red.

To think it is there
when there is no detector
is to present a hypothetical
rather than a factual
situation.

By extension, perhaps, the screen
could be said to be similar if not the same.

But I'm not sure if that is the case.

Qualities, such as color, texture,
which depend upon senses to be sensed
might differ from a fossil found in stone
which can be determined to have
existed prior to people.

To confuse such categories
might be a categorical error of sorts.

A glitch that gives rise to a quirk.

>> It tends to be compelling, for me,
>> to believe there is, and to act as if there is,
>> objective forms of reality independent
>> of my frame of reference.
>
>
>what we see may be different... but seamless... i say see the cup? it
>is red. there is no accord here but for the treaty that we both accept
>that whatever colour it is, we shall call it red...

As long as the light provides it as such.

Under different conditions,
different light, different eyes,
we might call it red, but it will appear
to be yellow, or some other color.

To say what it is, "really"
might be a semantical gambit.

An assertion.
Or a bunch or batch of given conditions.

>> Exactly what those forms are,
>> in and of themselves, without me experiencing
>> them in any way, or form, might be impossible
>> for me to know.
>
>beauty. the basis of selection. you might be wrong... the best wrapped
>gifts are generally the lousy ones... treasure hunter... go and select
>a handful of beautiful women... now find what they looked like as
>children... find them, woo them... and wait... applications is why i
>am real being... fucking air head... hahaha...
>
>
>> I might change my pov.
>> Look at a different map.
>
>then you are a fool not a master...

I used to say I was a bozo.
As well as a complete and total
fucking idiot shit head. But never
do I recall claiming to be a master.

> why do you hump this group if it is dry?...

It's kinda like being down to seeds and stems.
Back in the 70s that used to happen. Bummer.
But, when that's all there is to put in the pipe.

And, here we, you and I, have had a bit
of a few bytes of conversation.

Thus, I don't find the monkey to be all bad.
He simply is as he is. Usually I ignore him.
Sometimes I take the bait and respond.

Trolls can be fun.

[Wet Paper Bag]

On May 11, 8:21 pm, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> >not real. really being, you are becoming burdensome... you set your
> >stakes, we agreed on your conditions...

> I have no idea what you're talking about.

then what is the claim here? i see nothing remotely expressing focus.
the conditions as you set out at the beginning of our art...
experience... the nature of experience... the experience and the
experienced... this were your start point yes?

> > please, jump, you are getting
> >a little glitchy yes?
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about.

i am referring to what should have been studied as a pre-requisite for
this level of discussion... the initiating force of action... that
transmutation from belief to faith...

> I have ideas. But no experience.

ideas? experience?... which do you have again?... i could not say blue
whale no less than i could say your first bike... are you suggesting
then that now is the criteria for experience? that experience is only
manifest in this moment? explains why when i say blue whale you know
what i mean... you must... it was your example... think of chocolate
cake, baking, the smells fill the room... why can you experience? are
not your tastes salivating? i see no cake.

that is the door into something... that, say, i manage to somehow
change circuits... restrict input by some mental means of another,
then, through thought alone re-create the experience chocolate cake,
in all its details... in awareness, depending on ones degree of
mastery... there are no senses... but, through correct manipulation...
i see no difference in thinking chocolate cake and actually having
chocolate cake.

> If experience is the criterion
> for determining what reality is
> then, in that case, blue whales
> are not real, except for those
> who have experienced them.

you have no experience then... yet you know blue whale... you could
have used any other example...

> It might beg the question
> what is meant by the term, experience.

it is your question... i am listening...

> > i have never seen a fhyt kdhas... no idea... you?
>
> No idea.

but you know, or have an idea called blue whale... it is just as
absurd...

> > then perhaps
> >we can give it one...
>
> If you would like to.

moot.

> >those would not be details then would they be?
>
> The descriptions would include details.

of what? the thing in and of itself?... then no wonder you are
confused... what object of experience do we mean? in one word or
less... everything is icing... every addition of one character to
30^30... is not one idea but millions...


> > fact-similes.
>
> Reasonable.

that chair you are sitting in/on... is it a blue whale?... and yet you
have no more experience of something you are now doing, sitting in
that chair... than you do a blue whale...

> >enthusiasm sells. flipping a coin here... have you ever sky dived?
>
> Nope.
>
> > i
> >have. what could i possibly tell you about it? pictures? video? what?
>
> Whatever you care to share.

getting snotty already eh?

> The thrill. The rush. If there were those.

absolutely.

> Putting them into words might be a challenge.

no... as long as they are my words...

> Somebody might challenge, in response, that
> what you experienced does not exist.

yes... but we strive not to be one of those people... the cliff and
the fall are not there... is falling real? to suggest otherwise... can
be easily proved if you need a push...

> You might present evidence of some sort.
> Evidence might be accepted or rejected.

have any scars?... prove they didn't happen.

> You could then try to talk the challenger
> into going up into a plane with you.

now you are getting it...

> But if the challenger refuses
> then sky diving might be out of the question.

but no the experience. thus one can not defend that the experience
itself does not exist. it does. and how can one refuse? what is the
possible outcomes to determine if of course fear... being a factor is
based in something that we both concede must not be real...

> No explanation possible.

explanation and experience are possible... cooperation however?

> >have you ever stood up with faith and fallen?
>
> Not that I recall.
> Sometimes a limb may fall asleep.
> That's a strange situation.

not really... all i am suggesting is that if the mind and its actions
are supported by your unwillingness to fall... but you are saying the
fall could not, nor has it ever happened... i don't believe you
toddler...

> >really?
>
> Yes.
> For me that's usually normal.

sure... we may look from any point of view... what you want to see is
what you get... seek and you shall find... what are you looking for?
experience? or is there a specific type of experience...

>
> > does each pov have its own voice?...
>
> Not that I am able to discern.

really?... you can not make the distinction between looking for car
keys and listening to the radio?...

> > then consider i am God...
>
> Okay.
>
> >you want to be me for some unknown...
>
> Okay. When you say, "me"
> I assume you mean the body
> that has the fingers that typed
> the words as written, above.

you assume that is what i am?... a body with fingers typing words...
is that all? rather restrictive don't you think?

> Everyone wants to be God
> in the form that you happen to be?

form? i said nothing of form... philosophically what is the word God?
is it not all, everything? every form?...

> Why can't they be God
> in the form they happen to be?

good question.

> Being the brains of the Universe
> they might think the Universe
> has no brains at all.

quite good... and yet as vessels...

> Some thoughts please me
> more than other thoughts.

which thoughts? the ones from experience... or the experiences yet to
be done?

> > and nothing gets done... does that sound like do
> >nothing and everything gets done? or more like you missed the ark...
>
> Perhaps it was a sine.
> Then again, a cosine.
> A tangent, maybe.

tangent... definitely a tangent...

> >it is immediately suspicious yes?
>
> At times action is spontaneous.

as spontaneous as the Way?

> At times, reflection and improvisation
> might improve upon a situation.

then you think the Way is not perfect?

> On one level, that's only natural.
> On another level, it's entirely artificial.

what level are we working on?

> On yet a third level, it's useless, vain,
> exercises in futility. And then again,

like say... refusing to sky dive as not to dust the mirror...

> > yes, the one thing is the Law... like
> >awareness... what is this Law until something gets set in motion? and
> >what you have done to your dwelling is perpetually ask the old light
> >in the fridge question... are the Laws still there? yup.
>
> Until a glitch appears.

an inconsistency... what is not in accord? can you accept the glitch
as a false? as a no? or do you see the glitch as something that can
and will be negotiated... like gravity... unfortunately, like karma,
if you take a plane up... it bends the Law... but only for a period of
time... to do that, to bend a Law, comes at the cost of fuel... and
once the karma is set to flower... the plane will run out of fuel
eventually... is that a glitch?... since if you cannot land the plane,
if you can not undo the done... you crash. every time. no exceptions.

> When something is broken
> and a desire to fix it bubbles up
> then one is aware of manifestations,

that is not what it says... what is broken? then we see what it is...
then we may determine its cause since we already know its effect...
like people think i can read minds... thoughts... details... no...
well, not exactly... i start with a generality... a response to a
stimulus...

what are you running away from being?

obviously here, you may dance... but down there... remember that
time... so now you warp yourself in denial of experience... you see,
the patient starts to show signs of reactions and based on those signs
i can determine if something mental has been triggered filling the
body with signs... like your unwillingness to talk about it...

i could f course go deep enough to find the thought in all its
details... but like you say... not my experience...

> causes and effects. Outlines. Cut-outs.
> Differentiations. Conscious awareness
> it turned toward the situation.
>
> Being without desire, the inlines,
> figure-ground reversals, may appear
> on one's field of view.
>
> Whether a vase
> or two faces.
>
> Oar both.
> Ore neither.
>
> Seen very close, pixels. Quanta.
> Seen far away, a pale blue dot.
>
> At a middle macro plane,
> Euclidean perspective makes take holds.

is something stirring? you get like that when you are looking for
distance...

> >politics. i get it...
>
> At times, politics. Ugh. But true.

do you thing "being" as in my being God... requires belief?... and as
previously discussed... politics is about rhetoric... persuasion...
and what sells... and what sells is not what is obvious... the power
in politics is selling something absurd then twisting as many arms as
possible to suggest that it is a truth...

> > but how much life force do you waste to keep it
> >hidden? to prevent realization and discovery? to keep building blocks
> >to hide what is, the karma behind the wall... that is, after all what
> >you need to move forward... you can use a hammer to chop down a
> >tree... i am not kidding...
>
> I am not sure what you are referring to.

the right tool for the job. how much of your energy is wasted hiding
what needs to remain hid else, upon such foul discovery... you may not
change but everything else will and did...

> Being hidden in plain sight
> there is nothing being kept.

i don't believe you. you are defending something. you still toe the
line... i say fuck the rules... those things that have exceptions...
but if one such rule exists, killing is wrong Way, i am saying that my
moral qualities rises above the need for this rule since, i do not
kill... i do not need the rule... it should be obvious... politics
sold us the rest...

> A monkey might always be a monkey.
> It certainly appears to me to be that way.

a particularly hard practice in yoga... top shelf stuff... the secret
of the asana is to adopt the form... then fill in its nature... those
that know me have seen me do it... they feel my nature fill them as if
i am a guest in their mind observing with them... and certainly jim
was a little freaked yesterday when i gave rise to anna... he
confessed... he could see her... and that is no easy endorsement...
like you, not easily fooled by words alone... but again, let's get
extreme...

so there is that person you want to be... you master yoga and possess
them... at first, you would be most like them trying to fill in their
nature to avoid detection... but in time, you will shin ethrough and
start adopting all the old things you hate about yourself making you
desire to be someone else in the first place...

i however, am virtually imperceptible... being the core nature of
God...

> Perhaps, if it's in the cards, the ground
> might get turned over a bit. A molecule
> could be organic, fall, take root, and
> eventually sprout.

it is already here.

> But the increase is not mine to give,
> being, in the form of, a so-called individual.

no, the flowering is not yours to give... the seed is not the tree and
there is no way all that tree was in that seed... materially...

> I don't always think I'm God.
> Too much of a burden at times.
> Too much drama.

fuck man are telling me... you show a little humanness and the Jews
are all over you... a constant struggle of need fueled by disbelief...
at least i can pretend... imagine of you were a rock star?
unfortunately, i am something more serious than song... and people
take it serious when in fact, i am merely that voice they sought to
hear to provide a resonance to what they already know... and ahhh...
this word again... perfect... they may never understand my glitches...

> In such a case, I like to take a view
> where I'm just an old fart.

what is, is...

>
> >> At times, a Hindu view incorporating Self
> >> can be a key to the legend of a Map.
>
> >yes. again... the one thing is what it is... many maps, many scales of
> >measure, many words, many calculations of time, many cultures...
> >Istanbul was Constantinople...
>
> And the Dardanelles were named
> after a son of a son of Tamar.
>
> Zeus was Jew-pater.
> Deified by his children.
>
> England was New Troy.
> Ireland is of the Red Hand.
> As it was written, thou sands
> of y'ears, a go, for an age.
>
> Some say they still hold the scepter
> while the other promises are Joseph's.
>
> The Joes took over the world,
> colonized it. Pushed everyone around.
>
> Jews are figure-heads.
> Scape-goats. Sitting on thrones.
> Coronation stone. Jacob's pillar.
> Sure. Why not knot.
>
> History, archaeology, evidence abounds.
> Few have eyes, ears, nor will, to seek it.

here it is again... you do this when i have hit something... rather
than that... what is it that triggers that?

> >> At times, a Daoist view sits well.
> >> Refreshing waters it provides me with.
>
> >again... damn it... a daoist view sits... you are not the dao...
>
> In most of my ways of seeing, I agree.

sitting. seeing... thinking... none of these things fit... are you
these things?... is that the glitch?

> > you
> >are not the Law... you may sit and see or you may do and reap... but
> >you are not the Law...
>
> I'm not sure what you're pointing at.
> What you mean by, " the Law."

is. not want it to be... not need it to be... not hope it to be...
is.

is is the glitch?

> >i see that... but what is pure if the intention is not?
>
> Reminds me of when
> wrong man uses right method
> then right method becomes wrong.

a wrong man cannot use the right method... it is better to perform
your task imperfectly because it is your task rather than do someone
else's task perfectly... bhagavad gita...


> As well, as vice-versa.


you would like to think that but hold this thought... i will address
it in a moment...

> To try and fix it,
> even to try to change it,
> is to lose it.
>
> Letting everything alone
> can be, at times, a best way
> for mud to settle.

non-action... but what if, after it settles... it is unsettling?

> >do not pick up the pen being... was it constructed by the opposite
> >process?
>
> I am unsure what you are referring to.

here is what i was refering to above... take a pen and put it on the
table in front of you... based on your polarity to me... i will
challenge and say you can not hold that pen forever... but, being
me... so you pick up the pen and try... like karma... you do the
action and become unsettled... you try to hold it forever in case
there is a glitch...

but, the fact remains you can not hold it forever and thus at some
point it will drop or you will put it down... now, according to your
philosophy... the opposite is also true... that you should be able to
place your hand above the pen and, just as it was dropped... it should
rise being that the opposite is also true... you may stay after class
until you succeed...

using the same tool then... i was simply suggesting... take the
"watch" and deconstruct the watch to before it was a "watch"... then,
with no idea... recreate the watch... what is a watch? i don't know...
i have no experience.

> >> Not to make a better watch.
>
> >not to make a watch at all...

does that make sense now?

> The guy known as noname
> sometimes goes on a hunt for Dao.

he travels the river to it's source...

> I'm not sure if he wants to kill it
> when he finds it.

he hasn't found it yet.

> >no. there are no statistics for random events... statistically
> >speaking "when"...
>
> My impression of QM
> is that the phenomena are random
> as individual points are plotted
> but very predictable in quantities.

perhaps... but you will not roll a seven today... thus 1-6... but
when... when you need it? want it?... so that might be a glitch but
only because you are not aware of the conditions... a kettle boils
every time... no exceptions... when?

> How much force was applied to the flip.
> What was in the air at the time.
>
> I don't know if a mechanical flipper
> could be, or has been, designed
> which is able to flip a coin the same
> at each and every time.
>
> The temperature of the surface
> on which the coin lands
> might be a variable.
>
> As well as the composition,
> if it's dirt, or a table, etc.

the glitch surfaces... what about the simplicity of it...

> >no. one initial condition.
>
> I'm not sure what you're saying.

you are hungry so you scratch your foot.

> >then as we pointed out previously in this post... sit and what? care
> >to repeat it?
>
> Not sure what it is.

does that bother you? not knowing what something is? how can
something, like God, since you have no experience, explain it to you?

>
> At times, let the mud settle.
> At times, spontaneously grab the spoon.
> At times there is no spoon.
> At times, invent one.

invent one what?

> Not personally.
> On the cable, yes.

so you have never seen a flood... no worries then... it will never
happen to you... can you imagine the power, the force behind it?...
remember 9/11... i agree, it is just like watching racing cars...
indy... watching it on tv... you certainly can not appreciate the
scale of destruction... how fast those cars are going...

> >standard IHVH/Tetragrammaton formula... the prince... i say red and
> >you think... the princess...
>
> >> It is That
> >> from which polarities emerge.
>
> >the princess? no. she must first replace the queen... a new open,
> >fresher receptivity...
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about.

do you understand better today? did you do some homework?... perhaps
then this is the glitch...

> >yes. consciousness arises with object... there is no clearer way of
> >saying this... but without an object, there is no consciousness... can
> >not awareness be without form?
>
> Perhaps.
>
> I'm not sure what to say of it though.

so you lack experience is close enough.

>
> >you are violating your own conditions here being... you do not know.
>
> I have no idea what I was saying.

the focus of your debate was experience and experienced. that things
of which you have no experience do not exist...

> Normally I try to avoid using the pronoun,
> second person singular, when speaking
> or writing in general about people.
>
> Why I wrote, "you"
> is beyond me at the moment.

not beyond the moment... being me is after all a point of view...

> Maybe you snipped something
> that might have helped clarify the meaning.
>
> You may have been referring to yourself
> in a given hypothetical situation.
>
> My memory fails to produce or reproduce
> the initiating motive of the response.

maybe you... you may have... my memory fails... then perhaps in that
moment... it was my memory, my experience you felt...

> >c'mon, i know you are old but this is simply unacceptable... want to
> >go swimming?... are you confused?
>
> At the moment, yes.
> I have no idea what you're talking about.

is that the lameness of your mastery? this "now"?... this now, being,
is The Glitch... you brought up swimming... so you must know what it
is... perhaps it is time for a new nickname... not-being...

> >it would only cease to exist where it is if it is moved... today...
> >red... everywhere, and the correspondence is tim... when you see red,
> >become aware of red... you will think tim... and the more you resist,
> >the more painful this truth will become...
>
> Red is akin to a rainbow.
> When looked at it is there.

is it there when not looked for?... do you see color at all when you
are not thinking colors? when you are not thinking breathe why do you
breathe? because it is there... i am sure, even if you are not
thinking in color that a sudden gray scale shift would trigger
awareness of some sort...

> Without an eye, there is no red.

maybe... without an object there is no red... without an object, no
consciousness... awareness then since... when i say red, to your
closed eye... first, it is not red you see... but something that is
red... further... since you can not see both... you must open your
eyes... are both red and object there?

> To think it is there
> when there is no detector
> is to present a hypothetical
> rather than a factual
> situation.

i am pretty sure that is a fact.

>
> By extension, perhaps, the screen
> could be said to be similar if not the same.
>
> But I'm not sure if that is the case.
>
> Qualities, such as color, texture,
> which depend upon senses to be sensed
> might differ from a fossil found in stone
> which can be determined to have
> existed prior to people.

color, texture... details you will never find the elephant that way...

> To confuse such categories
> might be a categorical error of sorts.

not necessarily... a dog licks his nuts but that is not all of its
nature... a take an assortment of blocks with an assortment of
colors... red square, blue square will serve this example... i want
you to put all the shapes in that box, all the colors in that box.

> A glitch that gives rise to a quirk.

a smirk i hope.

> To say what it is, "really"
> might be a semantical gambit.

i already said... it is a cup...

> An assertion.
> Or a bunch or batch of given conditions.

what is a cup? is that what you are asking?...

> I used to say I was a bozo.
> As well as a complete and total
> fucking idiot shit head. But never
> do I recall claiming to be a master.

then why are you here? why do you feel, since experience is not an
issue, why do you struggle with me? i am a master. that is what it
is.

> Thus, I don't find the monkey to be all bad.
> He simply is as he is. Usually I ignore him.
> Sometimes I take the bait and respond.

ahhh...yes, i don't know being... i just don't see us as having the
mustard any more... i do not feel comfortable endorsing a champ to
represent this school... we may have to cancel this year... first time
in 18 years...

these kids and their new ideas...

btw... you are walking a pretty narrow line with me being... watch
your self.

Lucifer

[being]

Wet Paper Bag wrote:

> being wrote:
>
>> >> I never used a net to catch butterflies.
>> >> I used to use my fingers or hands.
>> >> Never stuck pins in them.
>> >> But they all died
>> >> if I tried to keep them.
>>
>> >yet you have thought of using a net yes?
>>
>> No.
>
>hm. this diagnosis is going south being... you have never thought of
>using a net or is it you have never acted to make or find then
>ultilize a net to catch butterflies?

In terms of physical butterflies,
I have thought of using a net
nor acted to make, find nor utilize
a net to catch them.

My technique as a youngster
was to cup my hands
after learning of how pinching their wings
with my fingers was not in their best interest.

Upon discovering how capturing them
would kill them, I stopped doing that.

My guru used to be able
to snap her fingers and they'd land on her.

>> >are you aware of the delicacy of their wings?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> >a single touch and they crash...
>>
>> Some of the dust is removed
>> when using fingers to capture them.
>
>a net would be better then yes?

Not capturing them is better, imo.
To capture them is to kill them.

They could be said to be sacred to me
in that sense. Very metaphorical in ways.

>> I don't know if it ever returns.
>> Never explored to that depth.
>
> a delicate balance of pollen and fairy dust...
>
>> >> Setting them free
>>
>> >they were free.
>>
>> Yes.
>
>oh... well... a start i suppose... the net doesn't matter now does it?

In terms of words being as butter flies
it is what captures our attention.

Perhaps there is something lost
at the same time there is a gain.

>> I used to.
>> As a youngster.
>> Until I stopped, as a youngster.
>
>i jumped as a youngster... do you think it matters when? if you know?
>if you are blind?

At the time, no.
Later on, at times, yes.

Matter matters when it matters.
Matters matter when they matter.

Knowing, carving uncarved blocks
often blocks the flow, and yet, at times
allows flows to flow as wells.

>> >> Unfixed, a way to gaze.
>>
>> >on what? actions of ideals?
>>
>> Simply watching, and appreciating.
>
>and touching... what is the white powdery stuff on your fingers and
>around your nose?

I quite doing that decades ago.
Last time I did my knows bled for a weak.
A stupid high. Not worth my doing.

People differ howEver.
What addicts me might not another.
Other addicts get hooked on what.
Ever as ever unfolds.
As one severs.
A carving may be severe.

Some matters matter more.
Eventually, perhaps, a bottom of
a stream of consciousness. And, then,
recovery may take place. Until then,
apparently, there is only hope.

Until there is no more hope, then,
perhaps that is the turning point.

>> If that is the view adopted.
>
>you are certainly free not to believe... adopt flying and prove me
>wrong.

Were I to fly in the face of the Amazing Randi,
it would serve my ego a great deal. A joker
dealt as a very high card.

If it were to serve some other purpose
or simply be for the sake of its own being,
when situations are conducive, one may fly
as butter, at times, on toast.

>> In some ways, yes.
>> In other ways, no.
>
>ahhh special relativity... my favorite subject... if you were a dog
>you could lick your own balls... and ass too... can you do these
>things?...

My tongue tends to remain attached
within and to my mouth and unable
to reach many portions of many
particular carvings of blocks,
as if there can be more than one.

> have you at one time or another desired to do these things
>to yourself?...

Don't recall the thought ever presenting itself.
Guess I'm just not that way.

>what else are you not... as a point... as they say...
>or negation...

Neti-neti
is a very fine mesh net.

Going the not-not route,
one may find one is not any
thing in particular.

Where that leaves one,
going to fig
leaves in a garden
might suggest a picture of Heaven.

The tree of the knowledge of duality,
particularly in terms of good/bad,
was to be left untouched.

Fruit may still be picked and eaten.
That tree is often touched.

Such an action still remains
as a way to be removed
from the garden.

>> >well, it is after all for the prettiest. is it worth a bite?
>>
>> I've never eaten the real ones.
>> I have eaten my words on occasion.
>
>obviously... no one has ever finished one past a bite... just a
>glimmer or hope... thought you might be the one being...
>
>
>> There is a view
>> in which, spontaneously, of-itself-so, ziran, life
>> arises from death, naturally, cyclically.
>
>good analogy... to bad in your hands it only sounds anal... yes, like
>breathing... when i think i am not breathing, i am breathing... when i
>think that i am breathing... then try to breathe... it gets...
>harder... can you prove it right now where you are? see the difference
>between us?

Reminds me of a yawn.
Or, as you said, red.

To break the bread
of the Spirit
might be a real deal.

>> To superimpose a force on the process
>> might be to enforce or reinforce a view.
>
>well... but that is not the case is it... it deteriorates under those
>conditions...
>
>> >but those are people... not gods... a shitty diaper is a shitty
>> >diaper... can you change it?
>>
>> Never have.
>
>what? now i know you are joking, your own terms... pov all the time...

No joke.
No kids.
And unable to change
someone else's diaper.

Metaphors may bring to light
great truths resting out of sight.

I like to think there really was
a guy born blind, more than metaphor,
with actual physical eyes.

The rub
is that, in Jesus' words,
the reason the guy was born
in such a state as that
was sewn as to be
for him to be given
what he never had
prior to being given it.

A strange thing.
A strange gift.
A strange present.
Sight.

Sound as well.
And touch. And taste.

Taken for granted. Usually.

Until, as is now, you, as God, bring it
to mind, into being, for a spell.

>> Even Mary and Martha and though
>> their brother was raised from the dead,
>> they did not recognize Jesus
>> when he rose.
>
>a strange parallel analogy yes? a puzzle... have you ever seen "the
>last temptation of christ"?

Nope.

>> Very strange place,
>> such a reality.
>
>was it?

When I reflect
in various ways up
on it and down a round to it.

> or did we find some 2000 year old books... a glitch... dead
>languages... so we make shit up to suit or new found ancient powers...
>did moses part the red sea is, as the story goes on,

I like to think, and to believe, yes.

> did they mean the
>red sea as in the desert... if you want to pull those miracles apart
>just recall that the Law now was the Law then...

But YHWH, so the story goes, wanted to do
something new, for an age. To make a name
which had not been known before then.

> so if we accept the
>seven plaques of moses... we only need to understand the plot and the
>conspiracy and his motivation...

Pharaoh's heart was not his own
in ways he might have thought it was.

What might he had was given to him
and taken away in the same fashion.

For the sake of the drama.
Of life. Of death. Of an age.
In that stage. Butter flies.

>> I die, in a way, whenever falling
>> into a form of sleep.
>>
>> Awakening
>> tends to happen
>> on its own.
>
>you are still in the body.

At times. Still. To sum degrees.

> the object that arose and occupied your
>consciousness reducing your awareness to a latent potential... you
>have convinced yourself that you are your consciousness...

Perhaps, until that consciousness is not.
When I fall asleep, I suppose I am unconscious.

Being unconsciousness
might be to reify
a word, ore a process.

> your
>object... thus, when the body sleeps, there seems to be nothing to do
>giving you the illusion that it is off... and off you go... until you
>dream... until something small and near imperceptible squeaks and you
>stir... what? what? what? what?... it wants to know...

The brain might give itself much credit.

Some nets of neurons may think they are
all there is to the brain.

And, for spell, they cast
their shadow and light
over an organism.

The heart, as it turns out,
has a mind, within itself.

Transplanted, memories
at times may surface.

At times the stomach rules the day.
Other organs serve it until
it is satisfied.

Electro-chemistry.
Quanta.

Levels of the playing field.

[Wet Paper Bag]

On May 12, 8:22 am, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> My guru used to be able
> to snap her fingers and they'd land on her.

what was her magick elixir... did you say she was a guru?

> Not capturing them is better, imo.
> To capture them is to kill them.

your guru knew how to possess them...

> They could be said to be sacred to me
> in that sense. Very metaphorical in ways.

very indeed... i used to wear ring that was a butterfly... not to
capture and kill... but to wait until they landed... obviously i took
some sexuality hits... then i would just fly away... but for those who
heard the snap, i reminded them of the butterfly's chaotic symbolism.

> In terms of words being as butter flies
> it is what captures our attention.

beauty. i knew we would land here eventually... our imaginations to.

> Perhaps there is something lost
> at the same time there is a gain.

the beauty flits and flots... it makes no distinction between flower
and finger... only safe places to rest.

> >i jumped as a youngster... do you think it matters when? if you know?
> >if you are blind?
>
> At the time, no.
> Later on, at times, yes.

opps... my bad... i was simply pointing out the Law again... that
there is no decider, no judge... a toddler tootles over the cliff or a
desperate man jumps to try and escape... conditions are not equal...
but the Law makes no discrimination.

> Matter matters when it matters.
> Matters matter when they matter.

to much clutter... things do not matter... but that of course is not
an excuse or escape or a license to action with folly... it is an act
of faith, first life faith especially... to see the long run... not
the matter... at death, whether this be taking a hit and watching all
karma come to fruition... right action will be revealed to you... that
no action need be involved... the kettle boils... spontaneously... it
is pure. you can trust it.

> Knowing, carving uncarved blocks
> often blocks the flow, and yet, at times
> allows flows to flow as wells.

carving uncarved blocks?... hmmm... do you have a design in mind? are
these the tools of the profane manipulations? to smooth out glitches?
after all the beauty within the rock is the carver... not the model.

> People differ howEver.
> What addicts me might not another.
> Other addicts get hooked on what.
> Ever as ever unfolds.
> As one severs.
> A carving may be severe.

pain relief and escape... what is this world that this is all one can
do...

> Some matters matter more.
> Eventually, perhaps, a bottom of
> a stream of consciousness. And, then,
> recovery may take place. Until then,
> apparently, there is only hope.

tragic then... to be in a position where there is only hope. and odd
word from you being...

> Until there is no more hope, then,
> perhaps that is the turning point.

hope and a turning point...

> If it were to serve some other purpose

some other purpose? discontent with the task at hand then?...

> Neti-neti
> is a very fine mesh net.

not for butterflies however... fish? a different story.

> Going the not-not route,
> one may find one is not any
> thing in particular.

a sad realization for some who have been conditioned all their life by
manipulators that cage them with can.

> Where that leaves one,
> going to fig
> leaves in a garden
> might suggest a picture of Heaven.

a picture of heaven with it?... i do not understand.

> The tree of the knowledge of duality,
> particularly in terms of good/bad,
> was to be left untouched.

that was not the knowledge at the tree... duality is but another poor
and lame excuse to avoid right action... and certainly distorts right
view... imagine... "right"...

> Fruit may still be picked and eaten.
> That tree is often touched.
>
> Such an action still remains
> as a way to be removed
> from the garden.

don't jump is all i said.

> Reminds me of a yawn.
> Or, as you said, red.

red yawn... wasn't that a movie?

> To break the bread
> of the Spirit
> might be a real deal.

then there is much to be done to break that bread...

> No joke.
> No kids.
> And unable to change
> someone else's diaper.

glitch... you are unwilling... and suffer the actions of others...

> >no, the baby needs to want to change... the diaper can go on
> >collecting forever...

> Metaphors may bring to light
> great truths resting out of sight.

> The rub
> is that, in Jesus' words,
> the reason the guy was born
> in such a state as that
> was sewn as to be
> for him to be given
> what he never had
> prior to being given it.

he may have never known he was blind.... this is a much better analogy
of your terms setting out on experience... only that in his fullness a
voice spoke and said such... and it was not his own...

> A strange thing.
> A strange gift.
> A strange present.
> Sight.
>
> Sound as well.
> And touch. And taste.
>
> Taken for granted. Usually.

what ever was evolution thinking... what could all in all possibly be
reaching for? sight to be seen?

> > or did we find some 2000 year old books... a glitch... dead
> >languages... so we make shit up to suit or new found ancient powers...
> >did moses part the red sea is, as the story goes on,
>
> I like to think, and to believe, yes.

really? you like to think? then let us say it is not a
mistranslation... on which side did moses part that sea that lead him
directly into the vast desert?... you like maps you said?

> But YHWH, so the story goes, wanted to do
> something new, for an age. To make a name
> which had not been known before then.

really? in most other tribes YHWH was an inferior god... a material
god... but more correctly, it was a formula not a name... and it was a
breathing pattern not a personality of godhead... but a word? yes...
one word for breath. the fire breathed in and out. the life itself.

> Pharaoh's heart was not his own
> in ways he might have thought it was.

i agree there is an illusion there... but what was pharaoh?

> What might he had was given to him
> and taken away in the same fashion.

so then, nothing divine or inherent... he was not the thing in and of
himself merely a current reflection of the thing...

> At times. Still. To sum degrees.

then you are in the body not to degrees... awareness is senseless,
bodiless... it is all the way in.

> Perhaps, until that consciousness is not.
> When I fall asleep, I suppose I am unconscious.

no. that is not true. there is no object when asleep... thus there is
no consciousness... but awareness... it is the dharma... it is the
consciousness that is in and of itself... aware only that it is
aware... no-mind. no object. thoughts rise from the sense...
butterflies take flight, i am only a dream.

when objects fade consciousness fades. there is nothing to see...
nothing to sense and thus, it "thinks" it is off... and away you go.

Lucifer

[being]

Wet Paper Bag wrote:

> being wrote:
>
>> >not real. really being, you are becoming burdensome... you set your
>> >stakes, we agreed on your conditions...
>
>> I have no idea what you're talking about.
>
>then what is the claim here?

I have no idea.

Near as the figures ground any reversal
a poster stated he had not seen any detailed
description of Heaven.

Links were provided.

We began a discussion.
Our conversation continues.

We share views.

There are a few mines.
Some hold precious ore, gems,
and thoughts to chew and mull over
found in streams of consciousness.

> i see nothing remotely expressing focus.

I see, as little wheels are turned,
microbial life, sub-atomic, super-natural,
artificial and astronomical views in as well
as out of focus. Clarity and blurry
follow each other as the field
is magnified by a power.

>the conditions as you set out at the beginning of our art...
>experience... the nature of experience... the experience and the
>experienced... this were your start point yes?

You appeared to me to suggest
how the links I provided were not to be
taken as a form of reality seeing
as how my experience as
not included in them.

If that is your condition, semantically,
as determining what reality is,
ore consists of, then that's okay with me.

>> > please, jump, you are getting
>> >a little glitchy yes?
>>
>> I have no idea what you're talking about.
>
>i am referring to what should have been studied as a pre-requisite for
>this level of discussion... the initiating force of action... that
>transmutation from belief to faith...
>
>> I have ideas. But no experience.
>
>ideas? experience?... which do you have again?...

I have no idea what was snipped.
My recollection is fuzzy, out of focus.

Probably, perhaps, it had to do with an experience
of Heaven, as depicted in the links provided.

Alchemically, metaphorically, there have been
experiences in my experiences which might
qualify my words as being pointers.

Detailed descript-
ions of such heavenly realms
tend not to be what I assumed the OP
was after.

Lots of levels were mentioned.
Second chakra. Fourth. Seventh.
Third may be at play. Fifth and sixth,
as well as first, all as well, in all, is well.

> i could not say blue
>whale no less than i could say your first bike... are you suggesting
>then that now is the criteria for experience?

I assume blue whales are real
and detailed descriptions of them
can be found with a bit of a search.

No problem.

In my lexicon, I don't need to experience
seeing nor touching nor smelling a whale,
be it blue, hunchback, killer or another type
to believe and have faith they exist.

It is a blessing, in ways, to believe,
without having experienced, such great
forms of life on Earth actually exist.

> that experience is only
>manifest in this moment?

Experience was your axiom, or so I had thought.

My offering was simply a few links
to any who were searching for a picture.

>explains why when i say blue whale you know
>what i mean... you must... it was your example... think of chocolate
>cake, baking, the smells fill the room... why can you experience? are
>not your tastes salivating? i see no cake.

Perhaps the same is true of Heaven.
As well as of God, Jesus, Krishna, Yukteswar, et al.

>that is the door into something... that, say, i manage to somehow
>change circuits... restrict input by some mental means of another,
>then, through thought alone re-create the experience chocolate cake,
>in all its details... in awareness, depending on ones degree of
>mastery... there are no senses... but, through correct manipulation...
>i see no difference in thinking chocolate cake and actually having
>chocolate cake.

Then I can only wonder why
you did not appear to appreciate the links
provided as providing any picture or
detailed description of Heaven.

>> If experience is the criterion
>> for determining what reality is
>> then, in that case, blue whales
>> are not real, except for those
>> who have experienced them.
>
>you have no experience then... yet you know blue whale... you could
>have used any other example...
>
>> It might beg the question
>> what is meant by the term, experience.
>
>it is your question... i am listening...

Without ever having tasted nor heard anything
about chocolate cake, one might be at a loss.

I am reminded, again, of the man who was born
blind. Without any sight. Never lost touch with it.

An avatar happens along, in the course of events,
and provides eyesight to the one born blind.

Metaphorically, amazing.

A guy was sent, from before the foundations,
who, in some sense, took part in the structure,
the architecture, to take a fall before the fall,
to reclaim all who were once known as
children, sons and daughters.

For those Joes, those lost sheep, to them
he was sent. To those that had lost sight.

But, there's the guy born blind.
Who never had sight.
Who was given sight.

I find that amazing.

And I have you to thank
for playing your part, avatar,
such as you are. In this case.

Thus. Thanks!
Very nice.

>> > i have never seen a fhyt kdhas... no idea... you?
>>
>> No idea.
>
>but you know, or have an idea called blue whale... it is just as
>absurd...

If you say so.
But I have no idea why.

I have tasted chocolate cake.

I have no idea what a fhyt kdhas is.

Without knowing the meaning of the words,
plus without any context, there is little
to be said. Absurd or other-wise.

The terms, blue whale or chocolate cake,
carry meaning. And while the meanings are
not necessarily fixed and carry their own baggage,
never-the-less, we might converse a bit
about the sight or taste, the Pavlov,
and they ring a few bells.

The other terms, fhyt kdhas, leave me
without any taste in my mouth, nor eye watering
spectacles of ocean slapping tale fins.

>> > then perhaps
>> >we can give it one...
>>
>> If you would like to.
>
>moot.
>
>> >those would not be details then would they be?
>>
>> The descriptions would include details.
>
>of what?

Of Heaven, blue whales, chocolate cake.

> the thing in and of itself?...

If you have a perception of fhyt kdhas,
and are able to convey to me something
of your views, your maps, or experience
then I might have a glimpse of a glimmer.

The thing, whatever it may be, in and of itself
might be a question, or out of the question.

> then no wonder you are
>confused... what object of experience do we mean?

That's a good question.

And it might hold a preconception
or presumption or some hidden attribute, notion,
even an ocean of subject-object relationships
which sail across an eye to sea.

> in one word or
>less... everything is icing... every addition of one character to
>30^30... is not one idea but millions...

Tug on a thread
and the whole ship
may sink, or be pushed
into a safe harbor.

I don't know if a tug pushing
is some sort of oxymoron.

Maybe they should be called push-boats.
And if all they do is push, that might pull
me into a conundrum drumming.

Mostly, aye, figures
of speech skate and skim
across various surfaces in waves.

>> > fact-similes.
>>
>> Reasonable.
>
>that chair you are sitting in/on... is it a blue whale?... and yet you
>have no more experience of something you are now doing, sitting in
>that chair... than you do a blue whale...

Words might convey something.

A body known to me as mine
is experiencing a chair as its fingers type
and eyes see words appear on a screen.

The chair is not a horse of any color.

Although, it is able to rock.

And if I lean back far enough
I may find myself in a roll
if not a pickle.

>> >enthusiasm sells. flipping a coin here... have you ever sky dived?
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> > i
>> >have. what could i possibly tell you about it? pictures? video? what?
>>
>> Whatever you care to share.
>
>getting snotty already eh?

Not at the moment.

Please feel free to share
whatever you care to if you care to.

>> The thrill. The rush. If there were those.
>
>absolutely.
>
>> Putting them into words might be a challenge.
>
>no... as long as they are my words...
>
>> Somebody might challenge, in response, that
>> what you experienced does not exist.
>
>yes... but we strive not to be one of those people... the cliff and
>the fall are not there... is falling real?

Perhaps as real as gravity.

> to suggest otherwise... can
>be easily proved if you need a push...

Earth might grab me.
Space collapse me.

Mixing and matching levels
may or may not playing fields.

As a singularity, event horizons
might be pupils of emptiness
thru which light passes.

Data is sensed.
Words might be out put
into air or on screens
at a theater near
another body.

As if there were
more than only one.

>> You might present evidence of some sort.
>> Evidence might be accepted or rejected.
>
>have any scars?... prove they didn't happen.

Proof is another word
which can be used, as a tool, as a net.

To apply an axiom of Euclidean measure
to the surface of a sphere might equate
angles not adding up to a complete 180.

Doing an about-face
one might face Heaven.

To sea, to have a notion, to wave
at a particular face of Heaven, to picture
various details, might be to link, in a way,
thru hyper-space as well as cyber.

>> You could then try to talk the challenger
>> into going up into a plane with you.
>
>now you are getting it...
>
>> But if the challenger refuses
>> then sky diving might be out of the question.
>
>but no the experience. thus one can not defend that the experience
>itself does not exist. it does. and how can one refuse? what is the
>possible outcomes to determine if of course fear... being a factor is
>based in something that we both concede must not be real...

Factors arise
after a so-called differentiated thing
is carved out of what was undiferentiated
and carved yet again, to determine
what made it tick.

What is real
can be defined and determined
based on various givens, ore axioms.

As far as a word goes, reality
can be as bad as the verb forms of to be.

Some say it is better to say,
rather than what a thing is,
what a thing appears to be.

A guy once asked about love.
If it is real. A response was,
it's real enough.

>> No explanation possible.
>
>explanation and experience are possible... cooperation however?

Yeah.

Without operating
the patient didn't stand.

He had no legs, and his brain
appeared to be sitting in his head
without moving a whole lot.

He did like to ride his bike.
But complained all the while.
Thinking monster cars and trucks
were out to get him, to squash him.

Perhaps he identified himself
with being a sort of bug.

He was not snug, yet was smug,
in his rug. His carpet unable to fly.
Not with butter. Not on toast.

Not even with a net.
Nor, oddly, on a bet.

Not knowing heads from tales,
he continued to post his posts
and there, the sign post, his
twilight zone, troll valley.

>> >have you ever stood up with faith and fallen?
>>
>> Not that I recall.
>> Sometimes a limb may fall asleep.
>> That's a strange situation.
>
>not really... all i am suggesting is that if the mind and its actions
>are supported by your unwillingness to fall... but you are saying the
>fall could not, nor has it ever happened... i don't believe you
>toddler...

In terms of metaphor,
each time my faith is tested, I fail.

My old pastor once said, the trip
is one of ever increasing faith.

If one never fell
one's faith would never grow.

A spelling test
of words that have only one letter
might not be much of a test.

How many are there? Two?

To name all that consist of three.
That might be more of a chore.

Words might have legs
or wings of various sorts.

Some may stand or fall
under their own power,
or appear to be sew doing.

>> >really?
>>
>> Yes.
>> For me that's usually normal.
>
>sure... we may look from any point of view... what you want to see is
>what you get... seek and you shall find... what are you looking for?

I had found a post
requesting a depiction of Heaven.

Not sure why
it caught my eye.

Each morning, as among my rites, I look
for messages in a group to which I subscribe.

This bamboo grove, in which I look,
there are, at times, ways
in which I find a way
which is a joy
of sorts.

>experience? or is there a specific type of experience...

It is a type of center.
An emptiness of thirty spokes.
A hub. An axis. At times bold.
At times a power, an impulse.
A warp, a weft, a loom, of Dao.

Loam, perhaps, a ground level
of a playing field as it flowers.

A foam and form of consciousness.
A particular wave, of a notion.

You provide me with grist.
An echo. A sounding board.

Much better than the monkey.
Quality stuff. At times. Such as these.
With ease, like the man flying.
Without a net, he dares.
And with a net
without a care.

>> > does each pov have its own voice?...
>>
>> Not that I am able to discern.
>
>really?... you can not make the distinction between looking for car
>keys and listening to the radio?...

Some povs have their own jingle.

Other maps sound all the same
in terms of voice.

Each, at times, can be, as a transparency.

Each a map. Each with spots of an X or x.
With treasures and paths.

When placed such as to be seen thru,
compiled, a body may take shape.

One of thought.

>> > then consider i am God...
>>
>> Okay.
>>
>> >you want to be me for some unknown...
>>
>> Okay. When you say, "me"
>> I assume you mean the body
>> that has the fingers that typed
>> the words as written, above.
>
>you assume that is what i am?...

I assumed, when you wrote, "me"
that you were referring to your body.

> a body with fingers typing words...
>is that all? rather restrictive don't you think?

To consider that you are God
can be considered in many lights.

I assumed you were referring to yourself
as being a form of life, a form of energy,
flowing through a body, the body
whose fingers typed, "me"
for some reason.

Why I would want to be that
tends to make me wonder,
why I would want to be that.

To think I would want to be
something that I already am
would be a strange thought
for me to think about.

>> Everyone wants to be God
>> in the form that you happen to be?
>
>form? i said nothing of form... philosophically what is the word God?
>is it not all, everything? every form?...

If that is how it is defined to be.

A standard God of Abraham, philosophically,
is not all, nor everything, not every form.
Not at all.

God as the Universe
may impart a spin to a pin
to stick into a Universe.

>> Why can't they be God
>> in the form they happen to be?
>
>good question.
>
>
>> Being the brains of the Universe
>> they might think the Universe
>> has no brains at all.
>
>quite good... and yet as vessels...
>
>
>> Some thoughts please me
>> more than other thoughts.
>
>which thoughts? the ones from experience... or the experiences yet to
>be done?

Both, at times.

>> > and nothing gets done... does that sound like do
>> >nothing and everything gets done? or more like you missed the ark...
>>
>> Perhaps it was a sine.
>> Then again, a cosine.
>> A tangent, maybe.
>
>tangent... definitely a tangent...
>
>> >it is immediately suspicious yes?
>>
>> At times action is spontaneous.
>
>as spontaneous as the Way?

Identical. Congruent. Wu-wei.

In that sense, one is Dao.

There is no distinct-
ion charge. No ironic pentameter.

>> At times, reflection and improvisation
>> might improve upon a situation.
>
>then you think the Way is not perfect?

If I think perfect and imperfect are
two sides of a thing, a way, a Dao,
which includes both but is neither,
then I might think Dao is Way
far beyond as well as within
being perfect.

To think Dao is perfect
might be a lop-sided thought, for me.

But, at times, there is that playing field.

When semantics are at play
then context tends to be king.

A checkered board presents itself
where up on one may move
when reaching the other side
in more directions than previous.

>> On one level, that's only natural.
>> On another level, it's entirely artificial.
>
>what level are we working on?

Seams to me to be many.

>> On yet a third level, it's useless, vain,
>> exercises in futility. And then again,
>
>like say... refusing to sky dive as not to dust the mirror...

A para or meta chute on a brick.

>> > yes, the one thing is the Law... like
>> >awareness... what is this Law until something gets set in motion? and
>> >what you have done to your dwelling is perpetually ask the old light
>> >in the fridge question... are the Laws still there? yup.
>>
>> Until a glitch appears.
>
>an inconsistency... what is not in accord? can you accept the glitch
>as a false? as a no? or do you see the glitch as something that can
>and will be negotiated... like gravity... unfortunately, like karma,
>if you take a plane up... it bends the Law... but only for a period of
>time... to do that, to bend a Law, comes at the cost of fuel... and
>once the karma is set to flower... the plane will run out of fuel
>eventually... is that a glitch?... since if you cannot land the plane,
>if you can not undo the done... you crash. every time. no exceptions.

If it was unanticipated, then probably a glitch.

If the supposition was that the plane would
function as it was designed, but didn't,
then a glitch would be so-called.

I like the word, and to think
that is what the Universe is made of,
full of, in the blink and a wink of many an I.

Half empty. Half bologna.
Feeding on itself. Flowering
for a spell then it fades
away along its way.

Glitches, glimpses and glimmers.
Add a few quirks. Presto.

>> When something is broken
>> and a desire to fix it bubbles up
>> then one is aware of manifestations,
>
>that is not what it says... what is broken?

Whatever doesn't function
as it was thought to have ought to.

> then we see what it is...
>then we may determine its cause since we already know its effect...

An effect is a lop-side.

What is, is.
The computer, a door-stop, a brick.

If its not-running is an effect,
then already the brick has been carved.

The paradigm invoked
without a second-thought.

>like people think i can read minds... thoughts... details... no...
>well, not exactly... i start with a generality... a response to a
>stimulus...

I have no doubt you can read minds
if the situation calls for you to read them.

You might fly, without burning a wing,
or sit in a meadow and hear the grass sing.

>what are you running away from being?

I am sitting, at present.

Normally when running I simply run.
Perhaps to the end of running.
A few miles at most, at times.
More like jogging, usually.
Downhill is better for me.
Easier on the feet.

>obviously here, you may dance... but down there... remember that
>time... so now you warp yourself in denial of experience... you see,
>the patient starts to show signs of reactions and based on those signs
>i can determine if something mental has been triggered filling the
>body with signs... like your unwillingness to talk about it...

You can dredge of you like doing that.

Mud might be at the bottom of many wells.

There is mud. And there is mud.
Zz liked to sit on the banks of rivers.
At times he got his feet wet.

One time, fish were happy, he noticed.

Normally I prefer not to stir the mud.
It does little for much of anything.

Water tastes better when clear
in most of m'eye reflecting.

>i could f course go deep enough to find the thought in all its
>details... but like you say... not my experience...
>
>> causes and effects. Outlines. Cut-outs.
>> Differentiations. Conscious awareness
>> it turned toward the situation.
>>
>> Being without desire, the inlines,
>> figure-ground reversals, may appear
>> on one's field of view.
>>
>> Whether a vase
>> or two faces.
>>
>> Oar both.
>> Ore neither.
>>
>> Seen very close, pixels. Quanta.
>> Seen far away, a pale blue dot.
>>
>> At a middle macro plane,
>> Euclidean perspective makes take holds.
>
>is something stirring? you get like that when you are looking for
>distance...

I could look up several lines
to see what sparked the flow of words
along those lines, in those planes
of Euclidean spaces at that time
to see the points. As if they
were other than location.

Words, for me, are as play.
As songs, sung for the singing.
Plays on words, danced for no reason
aside from the music of the spheres
or cubes or roots of the
points of inflections

To draw maps.
To paint pictures.
For having nothing
better to dew.

>> >politics. i get it...
>>
>> At times, politics. Ugh. But true.
>
>do you thing "being" as in my being God... requires belief?...

Experiences might evoke words.

Thinking one is God might
include components of ego.

There remains a form of differentiation.
There are at least three in such a case.

There is you.
There is being.
There is God.
Not to mention
10k things.

To identify oneself as being God
already a block is carved. A mirror
full of dust. A brick falling from
a plane of reasoning.

Probably what I'd call in incomplete
form of mystical experience. Ore, a level,
on a Way to another form of not thinking
about oneself as being God and simply
being who or what one happens
to be at any particular time
while giving a wave or
a shout as an ocean
breaks on shore.

Coasting parallel
lines in the sand
castles made
out of fine grains.

Pixels. Quanta.

The star, so bright.
Too bright to gaze at
without losing sight.

Yet from beyond the Oort
cloud a pail ghost of light,
perhaps a twinkle
in the night.

> and as
>previously discussed... politics is about rhetoric... persuasion...
>and what sells... and what sells is not what is obvious... the power
>in politics is selling something absurd then twisting as many arms as
>possible to suggest that it is a truth...
>
>> > but how much life force do you waste to keep it
>> >hidden? to prevent realization and discovery? to keep building blocks
>> >to hide what is, the karma behind the wall... that is, after all what
>> >you need to move forward... you can use a hammer to chop down a
>> >tree... i am not kidding...
>>
>> I am not sure what you are referring to.
>
>the right tool for the job. how much of your energy is wasted hiding
>what needs to remain hid else, upon such foul discovery... you may not
>change but everything else will and did...
>
>> Being hidden in plain sight
>> there is nothing being kept.
>
>i don't believe you. you are defending something. you still toe the
>line...

I do tend to follow rules
in order to stay out of trouble.

That appears to me to be wise.

At times I even wear shoes!

I tend to prefer being invisible.

Being a super-star might be a good way
to shoot oneself in the foot.

Ego is a funny thing.
Speculation as well.

If I could fly, without wings, literally,
what then, at times, eye wonder.

Free associations, probably.

Often the subject line of a thread
returns to me and I to it.

Pictures of Heaven might
include Hindu thought as well
as that of Abraham, et al.

Many mansions.
Lots of rooms.

A sage, a verse may say,
without leaving a room, finds
plenty of room to move
without moving.

>> >> At times, a Daoist view sits well.
>> >> Refreshing waters it provides me with.
>>
>> >again... damn it... a daoist view sits... you are not the dao...
>>
>> In most of my ways of seeing, I agree.
>
>sitting. seeing... thinking... none of these things fit... are you
>these things?... is that the glitch?

At times I identify with tat-vam-asi.
At times I identify with neti-neti.

Most of the time identities go unnoticed.

I simply am a sigh am.

Which sound triggers,
an association, a Yul Brynner.
As a king. Of what was then.
Now it has a different name
from when Anna was and
he the king. Before he
became a pharaoh.

Mostly random,
undetermined, unpredicted,
occurring such as they dew.

To seek for causes
as if they were effects
is to invoke a paradigm.

At times it's good to carve
an uncarved block or fell a tree.

To touch, or taste the fruit,
which will surely result in being
expelled from the garden.

Better, to simply fix
whatever may require fixing,
without taxing the value
in terms of net worth
nor even gross
weight.

As if a thing, or event,
could actually be good
or actually be bad. As if
there were an absolute scale
other than over one sighs.

>> > you
>> >are not the Law... you may sit and see or you may do and reap... but
>> >you are not the Law...
>>
>> I'm not sure what you're pointing at.
>> What you mean by, " the Law."
>
>is. not want it to be... not need it to be... not hope it to be...
>is.
>
>is is the glitch?

Cud be.

Word cans might.

Conjugating verbs
juggling tenses
may stream flows
of awareness at times.

Without a thought,
surely without a second,
falling into language without
a parachute to float one.

Smashing into the ground
levels of the playing field.

>> >i see that... but what is pure if the intention is not?
>>
>> Reminds me of when
>> wrong man uses right method
>> then right method becomes wrong.
>
>a wrong man cannot use the right method...

Then one is free to fly
to the Sun without burning a wing.

> it is better to perform
>your task imperfectly because it is your task rather than do someone
>else's task perfectly... bhagavad gita...

Krishna. As God. As all things.
Forgetting his Self, as an atman.
Re-membering himself as Brahman.
As if he could do anything
less than be perfect.

>> As well, as vice-versa.
>
>
>you would like to think that but hold this thought... i will address
>it in a moment...
>
>
>> To try and fix it,
>> even to try to change it,
>> is to lose it.
>>
>> Letting everything alone
>> can be, at times, a best way
>> for mud to settle.
>
>non-action... but what if, after it settles... it is unsettling?

Then, if one is able, flip the page.
Turn over a knew leaf.
Find the map.
Locate the point.
The treasure is buried
within one's chest.

Doing the surgery.
Forgetting the pain.
Opening up a chakra.
Moving up the chain.

Until, at last, a gain.
Until, the energy fades.

Until the mud settles.
Being still.
Still being.
While being.
Nonbeing.

>> >do not pick up the pen being... was it constructed by the opposite
>> >process?
>>
>> I am unsure what you are referring to.
>
>here is what i was refering to above... take a pen and put it on the
>table in front of you...

Okay. Got one here.

> based on your polarity to me... i will
>challenge and say you can not hold that pen forever...

Now I am.
Now it is.
Eternity.
Beyond the field.

> but, being
>me... so you pick up the pen and try... like karma... you do the
>action and become unsettled... you try to hold it forever in case
>there is a glitch...

For an Ever to be,
it needs to be
not temporal.

>but, the fact remains you can not hold it forever and thus at some
>point it will drop or you will put it down...

I lifted it, for an ever lasting.
Held it, for an ever, lasting.
Now it sits, forever at last, lasting
for yet another ever.

> now, according to your
>philosophy... the opposite is also true... that you should be able to
>place your hand above the pen and, just as it was dropped... it should
>rise being that the opposite is also true... you may stay after class
>until you succeed...

A tornado is not separate
from the conditions out of which
it took shape and spun itself,
so to speak, of all things.

>using the same tool then... i was simply suggesting... take the
>"watch" and deconstruct the watch to before it was a "watch"... then,
>with no idea... recreate the watch... what is a watch? i don't know...
>i have no experience.

Watching
as the present unfolds.

A gift that keeps on.
Giving and taking.

The present
all wrapped up
in a moment.

For a spell.

A sense of time.
A sense of eternity.
A sense of those may
include each other.

Three senses
ore only one.

Refining the crude.
Fuel for the mind.
Within neurons and nets
butter fries in hot oil.

>> >> Not to make a better watch.
>>
>> >not to make a watch at all...
>
>does that make sense now?

A sense of nonsense.
A fourth. A playing field.

>> The guy known as noname
>> sometimes goes on a hunt for Dao.
>
>he travels the river to it's source...
>
>> I'm not sure if he wants to kill it
>> when he finds it.
>
>he hasn't found it yet.

He might not in all his might
be able to keep it for long.

It could have a no-mind of its own.

He has experience unexplainables.
He has walked in between rain drops.

Perhaps the word, Dao,
has different meanings at times.

>> >no. there are no statistics for random events... statistically
>> >speaking "when"...
>>
>> My impression of QM
>> is that the phenomena are random
>> as individual points are plotted
>> but very predictable in quantities.
>
>perhaps... but you will not roll a seven today... thus 1-6... but
>when... when you need it? want it?... so that might be a glitch but
>only because you are not aware of the conditions... a kettle boils
>every time... no exceptions... when?

When conditions are as such.

>> How much force was applied to the flip.
>> What was in the air at the time.
>>
>> I don't know if a mechanical flipper
>> could be, or has been, designed
>> which is able to flip a coin the same
>> at each and every time.
>>
>> The temperature of the surface
>> on which the coin lands
>> might be a variable.
>>
>> As well as the composition,
>> if it's dirt, or a table, etc.
>
>the glitch surfaces... what about the simplicity of it...

Not to carve
tends to keep things simple.

>> >no. one initial condition.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you're saying.
>
>you are hungry so you scratch your foot.

I am getting hungry
but the itch is on top of my head
since you mentioned it.

>> >then as we pointed out previously in this post... sit and what? care
>> >to repeat it?
>>
>> Not sure what it is.
>
>does that bother you?

Not that I am aware of.

> not knowing what something is? how can
>something, like God, since you have no experience, explain it to you?

My experience of God
might be explained in various ways.

My not knowing about life
after a body, after a skin, is shed
tend to be a wonder to me.

I like to accept explanations, pictures,
details as provided by others who claim
to know or to have had experiences
of what there is after a body is dead.

Life goes on, it is said.

>> At times, let the mud settle.
>> At times, spontaneously grab the spoon.
>> At times there is no spoon.
>> At times, invent one.
>
>invent one what?

A spoon.

>> Not personally.
>> On the cable, yes.
>
>so you have never seen a flood... no worries then... it will never
>happen to you... can you imagine the power, the force behind it?...

We get some flooding here at times.
El nino perhaps. To give it a name.

>remember 9/11...

In some ways.

> i agree, it is just like watching racing cars...
>indy... watching it on tv... you certainly can not appreciate the
>scale of destruction... how fast those cars are going...

I wonder, how fast
did Jesus appear and disappear.
How fast did he rise up, after he rose,
after he he was dead, and buried,
so to speak.

The playing fields
are at times razed
to the ground
and then they rise
once more, for a spell.

>> >standard IHVH/Tetragrammaton formula... the prince... i say red and
>> >you think... the princess...
>>
>> >> It is That
>> >> from which polarities emerge.
>>
>> >the princess? no. she must first replace the queen... a new open,
>> >fresher receptivity...
>>
>> I have no idea what you're talking about.
>
>do you understand better today?
> did you do some homework?... perhaps
>then this is the glitch...

Sorry. Didn't feel impressed to seek
what the princess is, nor queen, in terms
of YHWH/Tetragrammaton formula One racing.

>> >yes. consciousness arises with object... there is no clearer way of
>> >saying this... but without an object, there is no consciousness... can
>> >not awareness be without form?
>>
>> Perhaps.
>>
>> I'm not sure what to say of it though.
>
>so you lack experience is close enough.

I have no idea.

Maybe I experience it quite often.

Maybe all the times I am not aware
of being aware there is consciousness
without any particular form. More
probably as waves, may be.

Now
that I think
of it as an it.

>> >you are violating your own conditions here being... you do not know.
>>
>> I have no idea what I was saying.
>
>the focus of your debate was experience and experienced.

I was not aware of any debate.

Maybe the memo didn't reach me.

> that things
>of which you have no experience do not exist...

That seemed to me to be your assertion.

I figured it's a semantical ocean
wrapped up in a notion.

>> Normally I try to avoid using the pronoun,
>> second person singular, when speaking
>> or writing in general about people.
>>
>> Why I wrote, "you"
>> is beyond me at the moment.
>
>not beyond the moment... being me is after all a point of view...
>
>> Maybe you snipped something
>> that might have helped clarify the meaning.
>>
>> You may have been referring to yourself
>> in a given hypothetical situation.
>>
>> My memory fails to produce or reproduce
>> the initiating motive of the response.
>
>maybe you... you may have... my memory fails... then perhaps in that
>moment... it was my memory, my experience you felt...

I have no idea.
If when you use the word, "my"
you are referring to yourself
as the entire Universe, then, sure.

Why knot.

>> >c'mon, i know you are old but this is simply unacceptable... want to
>> >go swimming?... are you confused?
>>
>> At the moment, yes.
>> I have no idea what you're talking about.
>
>is that the lameness of your mastery?

Any times I have thought of being a master
or having mastered some level of perfection
to a particular degree, I have then found
another level, another field, where as
a big fish was happy in a little pond.

So I tend not to think in such a term.
My ego is huge at times, for sure.
And yet, not that big.
My humility is too great.
A strange thing, t'hat.

> this "now"?... this now, being,
>is The Glitch... you brought up swimming... so you must know what it
>is... perhaps it is time for a new nickname... not-being...

I've used that moniker on occasion.
With an @ sign as well, at times.

Now-a-daze it reads in morse.
A code for home for those in the knows.

>> >it would only cease to exist where it is if it is moved... today...
>> >red... everywhere, and the correspondence is tim... when you see red,
>> >become aware of red... you will think tim... and the more you resist,
>> >the more painful this truth will become...
>>
>> Red is akin to a rainbow.
>> When looked at it is there.
>
>is it there when not looked for?...

Apparently not. Not when not at.
For when it is found, and seen,
then it is no longer looked for.

> do you see color at all when you
>are not thinking colors?

Probably. Maybe.

Words such as, "you"
and, "thinking" are words.

What those words mean
might be something to write about.

When I see the word, red,
but it's written in the color, blue,
then many neurons and their nets
get tangled up in a bar of butter
flying as a toaster toasts
them on the wing.

> when you are not thinking breathe why do you
>breathe?

That's normally called autonomic, iirc.

>because it is there... i am sure, even if you are not
>thinking in color that a sudden gray scale shift would trigger
>awareness of some sort...

Quite probably.

>> Without an eye, there is no red.
>
>maybe... without an object there is no red...

Granted.

And without a light, no red.

It takes, apparently, all three
in order for red to be.

> without an object, no
>consciousness...

An assertion.

A playing field.

>awareness then since... when i say red, to your
>closed eye... first, it is not red you see... but something that is
>red... further... since you can not see both... you must open your
>eyes... are both red and object there?

Probably they are not-two.
Nor are the three, three.

An uncarved block is not one.

To think or to say or to write
about an uncarved block is to point.

To point to a point
which has some location.

Yet, grid-wise, points
have no depth, no length,
nor width to speak of.

Time might be another story,
given this presentation of a case.

>> To think it is there
>> when there is no detector
>> is to present a hypothetical
>> rather than a factual
>> situation.
>
>i am pretty sure that is a fact.

To think
the red stop=sign exists, as red,
even in the middle of the night
when there is no light
is to think in a way
after a fashion
statement
made.

>> By extension, perhaps, the screen
>> could be said to be similar if not the same.
>>
>> But I'm not sure if that is the case.
>>
>> Qualities, such as color, texture,
>> which depend upon senses to be sensed
>> might differ from a fossil found in stone
>> which can be determined to have
>> existed prior to people.
>
>color, texture... details you will never find the elephant that way...

As if there is one.

The elephant's tusk, unearthed,
presents itself as a find.

What exactly was found
might be found to be smooth
or white or rough or of some other
qualities and quantities by the finders.

The fossil record may speak
in ways that red, white, and smooth,
or hard or soft or hot or cold are
unable to sew dew.

>> To confuse such categories
>> might be a categorical error of sorts.
>
>not necessarily... a dog licks his nuts but that is not all of its
>nature... a take an assortment of blocks with an assortment of
>colors... red square, blue square will serve this example... i want
>you to put all the shapes in that box, all the colors in that box.

All the red squares in the red square box?
All the blue squares in the blue square box?
Or put them all in the paradox box?

>> A glitch that gives rise to a quirk.
>
> a smirk i hope.

Smirks might spontaneously appear.
Out of the blue.

>> To say what it is, "really"
>> might be a semantical gambit.
>
>i already said... it is a cup...

I recall something about one of those.

>> An assertion.
>> Or a bunch or batch of given conditions.
>
>what is a cup? is that what you are asking?...

I am not asking anything in particular
at this point in the post.

Mostly just having a few words
about pictures of Heaven.

Filling in the empty
spaces over time.

>> I used to say I was a bozo.
>> As well as a complete and total
>> fucking idiot shit head. But never
>> do I recall claiming to be a master.
>
>then why are you here?

I subscribe to the group
because I subscribe to the group.

Once upon a time, searching groups, aye,
this one was stumbled into.

I became aquainted with some of the folks
who were here way back then.

Now they are gone.
At times they return.
They don't stay long.

And yet, most every morning, I press a key,
or maybe three, give or take, and take
what pleases me to have a look
and to give whatever is
given in return.

Here for the being.
As well as the nonbeing.

Here for a spell.
Now and then.
In many ways.

Looking for a reason
is already invoking a paradigm.

Songs to sing.
Plays on words in the wings
on stages for a while, in levels
and layers of the field.

For no reason.
For all the reasons.
For the one, and a two.

> why do you feel, since experience is not an
>issue, why do you struggle with me?

For me, this is no struggle.
For me, this is a great joy.

> i am a master. that is what it is.

That is good, I guess, for you.

Why do you see it as a struggle?

>> Thus, I don't find the monkey to be all bad.
>> He simply is as he is. Usually I ignore him.
>> Sometimes I take the bait and respond.
>
>ahhh...yes, i don't know being... i just don't see us as having the
>mustard any more... i do not feel comfortable endorsing a champ to
>represent this school... we may have to cancel this year... first time
>in 18 years...
>
>these kids and their new ideas...
>
>btw... you are walking a pretty narrow line with me being... watch
>your self.

Well, I have appreciated our discussion.

Thanks!

>Lucifer

[{:-])))]

Wet Paper Bag wrote:

> being wrote:
>
>> My guru used to be able
>> to snap her fingers and they'd land on her.
>
>what was her magick elixir... did you say she was a guru?

I wrote that she was my guru.

Her power was derived from God, Jesus
and the Holy Spirit, to speak of the three
as if they were not one.

At least, that was my impression
given the impression she made upon me.

>> Not capturing them is better, imo.
>> To capture them is to kill them.
>
>your guru knew how to possess them...

Probably it was her child-like spirit.
Her joy which they found attractive.

De signs may pertain
to when Dao has been lost.

> are
>these the tools of the profane manipulations? to smooth out glitches?

After De is lost
all sorts of stuff may occur.

Dao smooth without smoothing
and iron out wrinkles without irony.

A noun. A verb.
Singular. Plural.
A word.

>after all the beauty within the rock is the carver... not the model.
.
>> People differ howEver.
>> What addicts me might not another.
>> Other addicts get hooked on what.
>> Ever as ever unfolds.
>> As one severs.
>> A carving may be severe.
>
>pain relief and escape... what is this world that this is all one can
>do...
>
>
>> Some matters matter more.
>> Eventually, perhaps, a bottom of
>> a stream of consciousness. And, then,
>> recovery may take place. Until then,
>> apparently, there is only hope.
>
>tragic then... to be in a position where there is only hope. and odd
>word from you being...
>
>> Until there is no more hope, then,
>> perhaps that is the turning point.
>
>hope and a turning point...
>
>> If it were to serve some other purpose
>
>some other purpose? discontent with the task at hand then?...

I think, perhaps, you are reading
too much into what eye writes
as a jet plane soars
for no reason
aside from being
on the wing.

>> Neti-neti
>> is a very fine mesh net.
>
>not for butterflies however... fish? a different story.

When Zz said he knew
that the fish were happy
it brought froth words
from his friend and companion.

How could he know.
How could he not know.

He was that.
His art. Fish were, to him, a thou.

For Hui-zi
it was not to be.

For him, they, the fish, were an it.
Not this. Not that.

His I it relationship
prevented him from entering.

>> Going the not-not route,
>> one may find one is not any
>> thing in particular.
>
>a sad realization for some who have been conditioned all their life by
>manipulators that cage them with can.
>
>> Where that leaves one,
>> going to fig
>> leaves in a garden
>> might suggest a picture of Heaven.
>
>a picture of heaven with it?... i do not understand.

The Garden
at the Heart,
as a form, in details,
picture painting, East of Eden,
as good as any, of Heaven,
at the time.

Prior to touching
the forbidden tree.

When not-knowing was the Way.
And, at times, may yet, still, be.

>> The tree of the knowledge of duality,
>> particularly in terms of good/bad,
>> was to be left untouched.
>
>that was not the knowledge at the tree...

It was, as the story went.

> duality is but another poor
>and lame excuse to avoid right action... and certainly distorts right
>view... imagine... "right"...

When action is spontaneous
one may be left with what is
only right and right only.

In this sense, perhaps, Buddhism,
and perhaps Zen, might differ from Daoism.

Paths of Daoism, maybe there are many.
Some could include a Noble Eight Fold.

Forgetting about rules and rulers
people would be free of distortions
promulgated by their pronouncements,
confusing the heart-mind, as well
as when others bubble up.

>> Fruit may still be picked and eaten.
>> That tree is often touched.
>>
>> Such an action still remains
>> as a way to be removed
>> from the garden.
>
>don't jump is all i said.
>
>
>> Reminds me of a yawn.
>> Or, as you said, red.
>
>red yawn... wasn't that a movie?
>
>
>> To break the bread
>> of the Spirit
>> might be a real deal.
>
>then there is much to be done to break that bread...
>
>
>> No joke.
>> No kids.
>> And unable to change
>> someone else's diaper.
>
>glitch... you are unwilling... and suffer the actions of others...

If and when I suffer,
probably I am clinging
to some pain contracted
when my consciousness
was not expanded.

>> >no, the baby needs to want to change... the diaper can go on
>> >collecting forever...
>
>> Metaphors may bring to light
>> great truths resting out of sight.
>
>
>> The rub
>> is that, in Jesus' words,
>> the reason the guy was born
>> in such a state as that
>> was sewn as to be
>> for him to be given
>> what he never had
>> prior to being given it.
>
>he may have never known he was blind....

To know. Yes. Many layers.
How could he know what he could not know.

Others might have told him so.
Perhaps he believed them.

> this is a much better analogy
>of your terms setting out on experience... only that in his fullness a
>voice spoke and said such... and it was not his own...

It sounded as if it arose
from something, someone, outside of him.
Beyond his inner ears it rang.
Within its sounds was
found silence.

>> A strange thing.
>> A strange gift.
>> A strange present.
>> Sight.
>>
>> Sound as well.
>> And touch. And taste.
>>
>> Taken for granted. Usually.
>
>what ever was evolution thinking... what could all in all possibly be
>reaching for? sight to be seen?

Energy is fun.

Boundless as a puppy.
Carefree as a kitten.

As little kids it plays.

Bundles of joy
in many ways.

Without a thought
exploding onto scenes
of super stars and atoms
spinning whirls in rivers and
streams of consciousness.

Reasons are derivatives.
Subsequents to the uncarved.

>> > or did we find some 2000 year old books... a glitch... dead
>> >languages... so we make shit up to suit or new found ancient powers...
>> >did moses part the red sea is, as the story goes on,
>>
>> I like to think, and to believe, yes.
>
>really? you like to think?

Yes. All too often.

> then let us say it is not a
>mistranslation... on which side did moses part that sea that lead him
>directly into the vast desert?... you like maps you said?

I don't know if it was down the middle.
If it was a part of or apart from anything else.
I suppose it can be said to be both.
Or neither if one chooses.
Two take sides.

>> But YHWH, so the story goes, wanted to do
>> something new, for an age. To make a name
>> which had not been known before then.
>
>really?

That was my impression.
Never know tho. My memory
sometimes fools me into thinking
some things were that were not.

> in most other tribes YHWH was an inferior god...

I've read he was the volcano dude.

>a material
>god... but more correctly, it was a formula not a name... and it was a
>breathing pattern not a personality of godhead... but a word? yes...
>one word for breath. the fire breathed in and out. the life itself.

As Jehovah, supposedly, potential.

Lots of waze to slice and dice.

>> Pharaoh's heart was not his own
>> in ways he might have thought it was.
>
>i agree there is an illusion there... but what was pharaoh?

A pawn.
A symbol.
A device to teach.
A character in an epic drama.
For an age. For a stage. In history.

>> What might he had was given to him
>> and taken away in the same fashion.
>
>so then, nothing divine or inherent... he was not the thing in and of
>himself merely a current reflection of the thing...
>
>> At times. Still. To sum degrees.
>
>then you are in the body not to degrees... awareness is senseless,
>bodiless... it is all the way in.

Turtles, so sum say.

[Tim]

On May 10, 6:27 am, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> Wet Paper Bag wrote:
> > where is the evidence?


> http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap43.php
>
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16%3A31&version=NIV

> Science can be a method.
>
> Experiences might be experienced.

precisely being, that is my point, our discussion began with your post
to monkey... i asked

"where is the evidence?"

you said "experiences 'might' be experienced"...

you are a anton wilson cast off...

if i appear to be God or Devil... does it matter if it is?

now my point... no brad wall... these are real people doing real
shitty thing to other people and you do nothing... are you a coward or
do you appear to be a coward?

no death brad... killing? in these times i have delivered? out of the
question... "we" sir, will suffer... each, sir, according to his
"deeds" not the things that the deeds of others make him think...
including fucking asshole holes like you that allow one to continue
thinking it...

jenna? the flyers and pamphlets are ready... where is my letter?

Lucifer

[Tim]

> > Wet Paper Bag wrote:
> > > where is the evidence?

so you know what i think being? i think you are fucked. i think you
know it to. i think you are going through the real bardo now,... no,
no, no, not the one with the cave paintings where one merely stands as
witness... the one where the seeds are set and sprouted and this is
where that mind of yours starts to self-destruct... if you knew it was
self destructing, perhaps there is something you could do, but on that
level consciousness, creation consciousness, kept out of your reach
for a reason, i am already burning your house down. and what the rest
of us have witnessed here is the bardo, the limbo, the purgatory of a
mind trying you are in trying to keep itself together through an
exercise of, as you say, neti, neti... it is not uncommon and
manifests when the foundation knows but the lofty heavenly heights of
unrestricted thought, imagination, have first taken over and are now
corrupting. as i said, there are many bodies to possess...
consciousness arises with object. no object. no consciousness. raw
awareness. you fall asleep because you "think" you are off. and for
the likes of Jews and assholes like you being? so what, you have
replaced one body for another... you live in your imagination but by
karma, have been eternally restricted from access to the medium of the
Laws of creation... and soon, that world you are in, which of course
is an input only vehicle will accord with a new reality that will rip
your soul to pieces leaving, however, your awareness completely
intact. and that, awareness, is the seed of the evolution experience
and the push behind creation itself... you need to feel but nature
does not necessarily need you. i feel pain, even in dreams... but i
have simply disciplined myself not to react... but the point is... it
still hurts.

shall i begin explanations into these Laws that I have yet to
disclose? do you take my word that they are there? or do you simply
lack the experience to know them... or is it the method that i was
prevented from disclosing?

Lucifer

[being]

Tim wrote:

> being wrote:
>> Wet Paper Bag wrote:
>>
>> > where is the evidence?
>
>
>> http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap43.php
>>
>> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16%3A31&version=NIV
>
>> Science can be a method.
>>
>> Experiences might be experienced.
>
>precisely being, that is my point, our discussion began with your post
>to monkey... i asked
>
>"where is the evidence?"
>
>you said "experiences 'might' be experienced"...

Experiences might be experienced. Yes.
I said lots of stuff. Such as, for those ... ... .
And, for those ... ... .

For Yogananda, apparently, Yukteswar gave
what is perhaps my best picture of Heaven.

I take it for granted that Yogananda experienced
what he wrote about having experienced.

He might have experienced that experience.
I have no idea really. I wasn't in the room.

It was discussed at some length
in terms of various experientials,
ore sew I'd like to believe.

If somebody came back from the dead
and told about his or her experience
some folks would believe and some not.

Anecdotes are plentiful.

Anecdotal evidence is not science,
given the scientific method as a dao.

We then went on to discuss
how, semantically, what constitutes real
might be at root of various paradigms.

Language and legends can be keys.

>you are a anton wilson cast off...

I am not too familiar with him.
Can't say that I know what he's about.

>if i appear to be God or Devil... does it matter if it is?

It might.

>now my point... no brad wall...

I have no idea who brad wall is.

> these are real people doing real
>shitty thing to other people and you do nothing...

I do what I do
but I have no idea
what you are talking about.

> are you a coward or
>do you appear to be a coward?

If I appear to you to be a coward
then that is how I appear to you to be.

At times I am a coward.
At times I am not a coward.

>no death brad... killing?

You appear to be talking to someone else,
or perhaps it is for your own self.

> in these times i have delivered? out of the
>question... "we" sir, will suffer... each, sir, according to his
>"deeds" not the things that the deeds of others make him think...
>including fucking asshole holes like you that allow one to continue
>thinking it...
>
>jenna? the flyers and pamphlets are ready... where is my letter?

You are not making any sense to me.

>Lucifer

[being]

Tim wrote:
>> > Wet Paper Bag wrote:
>> > > where is the evidence?
>
>so you know what i think being?

I don't know, no.

I have experienced telepathy
but not in this instance.

However,
it appears as though
you are going to tell me
some of what you think.

That's more of a guess
than anything else.

Based upon what is, evidently, written
below this line of text, on a screen.

> i think you are fucked. i think you
>know it to. i think you are going through the real bardo now,... no,
>no, no, not the one with the cave paintings where one merely stands as
>witness... the one where the seeds are set and sprouted and this is
>where that mind of yours starts to self-destruct... if you knew it was
>self destructing, perhaps there is something you could do, but on that
>level consciousness, creation consciousness, kept out of your reach
>for a reason, i am already burning your house down. and what the rest
>of us have witnessed here is the bardo, the limbo, the purgatory of a
>mind trying you are in trying to keep itself together through an
>exercise of, as you say, neti, neti...

Neti neti can be a method.

Tat vam asi can be a method.

Quite often, a method I use
is to see methods as methods.

As a daoist,
this can be an interpretation
of DDJ 1.1 where dao can be dao
but are not always dao.

Tools are tools.

I enjoy and appreciate
having more than just a hammer
to smash watches with.

> it is not uncommon and
>manifests when the foundation knows but the lofty heavenly heights of
>unrestricted thought, imagination, have first taken over and are now
>corrupting. as i said, there are many bodies to possess...

Perhaps you are projecting
and seeing your own reflections.

>consciousness arises with object. no object. no consciousness. raw
>awareness. you fall asleep because you "think" you are off. and for
>the likes of Jews and assholes like you being? so what, you have
>replaced one body for another... you live in your imagination but by
>karma, have been eternally restricted from access to the medium of the
>Laws of creation... and soon, that world you are in, which of course
>is an input only vehicle will accord with a new reality that will rip
>your soul to pieces leaving, however, your awareness completely
>intact. and that, awareness, is the seed of the evolution experience
>and the push behind creation itself... you need to feel but nature
>does not necessarily need you. i feel pain, even in dreams... but i
>have simply disciplined myself not to react... but the point is... it
>still hurts.

Yes. At times.

>shall i begin explanations into these Laws that I have yet to
>disclose? do you take my word that they are there? or do you simply
>lack the experience to know them... or is it the method that i was
>prevented from disclosing?

I have no idea.
Continue if you desire to.

I am okay with taking your word
that various realities appear to you
to be various realities. Or, if you stipulate
that there is only one really real reality
then that is, by definition, your assertion.

No problem.

If you feel and think you are prevented
from disclosing something you'd like to disclose
then I don't know what to say.

Often I am at a loss.

At times I am at a gain.

Interesting, to me, at the moment,
how again and again appears, to me.

Normally I don't say
aloss and aloss.

Perhaps, when all is lost.

And then, that might not be all bad.

After a spell.

At times, neutral is the best gear
for me to be idle in.

Lights change.
They cycle.

That's been my experience.

Sometimes they get stuck.

At times a sensor goes bad
or has some glitch and needs
to be rebooted to function
as designed.

Sometimes I call it in.
Sometimes it doesn't bug me.

>Lucifer

You have brought me some light
in the morning and the evening.

As well as in the after noon.

As a star, a planet, a soul.

I don't know if angels have souls.

Perhaps a detailed picture of Heaven
would include whether or not they do.

The Universe spins and swirls
stardust into planets and forms of life.

Perhaps there are many minds.

Pehaps there is only One.

Deepending on povs.

And reflections.

At any rate,
thanks again for the conversation.

- shalom

[Tim]

On May 13, 11:13 am, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> >"where is the evidence?"
>

> >you said "experiences 'might' be experienced"...
>
> Experiences might be experienced. Yes.
> I said lots of stuff. Such as, for those ... ... .
> And, for those ... ... .

you said science is a method...

> For Yogananda, apparently, Yukteswar gave
> what is perhaps my best picture of Heaven.

so did i... the kingdom is within...

> I take it for granted that Yogananda experienced
> what he wrote about having experienced.

probably. like every bullshitter riding a tread... he only had the
words for it... nothing you could do... the secret of secrets...

> He might have experienced that experience.
> I have no idea really. I wasn't in the room.

but you are in this room yes?

> It was discussed at some length
> in terms of various experientials,
> ore sew I'd like to believe.

and what is the basis of that belief? karma... dharma could not
conceive of a picture of heaven being that is what it already is...
like the question i proposed... what can you think about heaven that
has no correspondence the the earth experience? i could not conceive
of hunger if i was full.

> If somebody came back from the dead
> and told about his or her experience
> some folks would believe and some not.

i agree. besides, what value would it be to you?... hope?... but let
us say someone did, or like myself, never left... a glitch yes? so i
suppose i could be a loser, since it is only the weak that have
aspirations for power and control... and tell you all about it
tailoring it to my wishes... or perhaps, being the article... i could
say these are the exercises to get you there...

> Anecdotes are plentiful.

yes, and so is contradiction of a squirming worm in the hot seat... i
suppose mental culture give you room to move but then it was what you
did when given room to move that counts... actions matt... that is the
only thing that changes anything...

> Anecdotal evidence is not science,
> given the scientific method as a dao.

the scientific method as a tao? but you already have stated that the
tao is unmoving... it can not do what is done... it can not see for
sight... and from there, a perception of it... yours... it is either
black or white... and thus, the zen symbol using hunger and full... a
point in each of realization... a motion from one to the other, a
round as you say... then, kicked out of the tao, you say neti, neti...

if taking up a hammer right now and smashing your hand is merely
anecdotal, then do it.

> We then went on to discuss
> how, semantically, what constitutes real
> might be at root of various paradigms.

survival of a self that does not exist... so you say.. semantics?
those are exceptions to the rules that defy the Law by changing the
context.

> Language and legends can be keys.

hahaha... really? don't you mean might? since of course they are
anecdotal.

> >you are a anton wilson cast off...
>
> I am not too familiar with him.
> Can't say that I know what he's about.

hahaha... false. i have seen the spyderweb...

> >if i appear to be God or Devil... does it matter if it is?
>
> It might.

really? then call it something else... call a dog a spoon... does the
dogs nature change?

> >now my point... no brad wall...
>
> I have no idea who brad wall is.

he has a hand in fucking your dream.

> > these are real people doing real
> >shitty thing to other people and you do nothing...
>
> I do what I do
> but I have no idea
> what you are talking about.

then what can you do?

> > are you a coward or
> >do you appear to be a coward?
>
> If I appear to you to be a coward
> then that is how I appear to you to be.

that is semantics and does not answer the question... you are avoiding
your own self here... i never told you what i think you might be...
look at the question... by your own admission...

> At times I am a coward.
> At times I am not a coward.

really? hahaha... then at what times this and at what times that? now
you are offended by your own stink... justifying your self to your
self...

> >no death brad... killing?
>
> You appear to be talking to someone else,
> or perhaps it is for your own self.

a part of being the goat... ii am throwing that spear that hits no
matter how poorly thrown... if you are not real matt, then you are
merely the air i pass through... being but air... why not jump?

> >jenna? the flyers and pamphlets are ready... where is my letter?
>
> You are not making any sense to me.

good matt... to me...jenna works for the ministry... she will be
forced to prove that seven years of ministry abuse is not malicious...
if she fails... criminal... federal case... not under the protections
of the ministry or the province... and not the wrist slap type since
it is premeditated... a pattern of abuse... surely in that context you
must know someone i am talking about... or is it you and that is why
you are blind?

due to my popularity, it is impossible for me to get a job. they know
that. i have eveidence stating that i asked for the minsitry program
to get me working. they did nothing about it. i asked brad wall for
work to... no dice... and the city police... nothing... i do not have
the resources to leave. they know that to. and thus, they are
threatening me. malicious persecution... have you made your vote
known? i only assumed you have.

i only get away with it for now because they seem to believe, i have
no idea where they got this idea... that i will hit the riff raff...
hardly breaking news... and that is what i need... breaking news...
assaults, fires, a chase... a peaceful surrender... and a tee shirt
that says "alt.zen@googlegroups"...

Lucifer

[Tim]

On May 13, 11:29 am, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> >so you know what i think being?
>
> I don't know, no.

only because you never got passed the eclipses... i told you what i
was thinking...

> I have experienced telepathy
> but not in this instance.

voices... nice... of course, that is the difference between here and
there... there is no fluid connection here...

> However,
> it appears as though
> you are going to tell me
> some of what you think.

already did... and easy procedure yes?... you never felt a thing... i
am a good doctor... the best... boiling frogs you see... or, hahaha...
don't see...

> That's more of a guess
> than anything else.

sure... keep guessing... now do you know what i mean when i say ...
you are violating your own terms of debate... my job is to hold it up
to prevent you from getting that illusion... to stop you from landing
the plane while adding more passengers and weight...

> Based upon what is, evidently, written
> below this line of text, on a screen.

evidently... hahaha.. a genuine skeptic yes? too bad you do not know
what a skeptic is... it is to not accept word over experience... it is
a good scientific strategy... like... the sand content of potash is
negligible... use it... pad the bill, dump accesses... there is no
negligible corrosive value... and then there is that antidote story...
the one where the the guy says... pay me a penny... and tomorrow?
double it... and the next day double the total... those will be my
wages for one month... just 30 days...

> Neti neti can be a method.

can be... so can wearing a condom...

> Tat vam asi can be a method.

is it the same method as science and neti, neti... what kind of people
wear a condom?

> Quite often, a method I use
> is to see methods as methods.

sure... and if i look at one of those old three dimensional
pictures... all the rage in the early 90s... i can see it... but the
method? do it too often and fuck your vision up... neti, neti...


> As a daoist,

you are not a taoist ... you are a qlippoth ... must be something in
it though else why stop now?

> this can be an interpretation
> of DDJ 1.1 where dao can be dao
> but are not always dao.

no. that is not what it means... it means there is no definitive
definition. i thought we already covered this? a dog can lick its nuts
although licking its nuts is not the whole of the nature of the dog...
it is not a method... it is an observation.

further, extending your delusions... a bird can fly. a bird is a
living being... i am a living being... you should really pay attention
as much as your students matt... thus, having the same nature as
you... we are the reason you can not fly not the birds...

> Tools are tools.

hahaha... my bitch... yes, you can use a hammer to chop down a tree.

> I enjoy and appreciate
> having more than just a hammer
> to smash watches with.

hahaha... again, that is not what i said... i said to undo the watch
to deconstruct the watch to a point before a watch... what is that
point a priori? what is a watch? no idea. so how do you propose to
reconstruct it? thus, as i said in extension... of course you missed
it being as there are two here and not just you which by convenience
is just another method... neti, yeti... that if the basis is dharma...
wait... if the basis is heaven... then what could heaven conceive?

> Perhaps you are projecting
> and seeing your own reflections.

hahaha... ok... but as for many bodies Jewboy... they are called
sephiroth... and the radiating intelligence is a body. see that? do
you leave it there? or do you do your homework for all the various
bodies? last i heard, there were 72 names of God... is that 72
natures? is that all of it then?... and was it not IHVH that breathed
into the clay the fire of life?... fuck man, i can say Jew in any
context and still know more about than you... but in terms of your
semantics, how you contextualize my statements to perform some
illusion or another... i know more if not as much as any rabbi... that
Jewboy... is respect...not what you do... that is a blasphemy... the
reason people think jews are stupid superstitious fools...


> Yes. At times.

at times? then you concede that consciousness and object are one...
but i am not talking about those... awareness with out an object...
where you are from... awareness of object... where you are... and when
it sleeps... you sleep because you think awareness is off...

> >shall i begin explanations into these Laws that I have yet to
> >disclose? do you take my word that they are there? or do you simply
> >lack the experience to know them... or is it the method that i was
> >prevented from disclosing?
>
> I have no idea.
> Continue if you desire to.

dude, that again is the point.. you keep pushing the envelope with no
concept of what the full consequence of this current lesson is... that
is the thrill and you are addicted... no soup for you until we clean
up this mess or it just gets messier...

> I am okay with taking your word
> that various realities appear to you
> to be various realities. Or, if you stipulate
> that there is only one really real reality
> then that is, by definition, your assertion.

hahaha... i am a reality that appears to you.

> If you feel and think you are prevented
> from disclosing something you'd like to disclose
> then I don't know what to say.

then what can i possibly say?

> Often I am at a loss.
>
> At times I am at a gain.

what is your assessment under my tootlage? loss or gain?

> Interesting, to me, at the moment,
> how again and again appears, to me.

i desire to move forward and disclose... you are profane and thus it
is not my desire... it, as you see, again and again... are your words
that keep bringing you back to here... as above so below... actions
see?

> Normally I don't say
> aloss and aloss.

then something has changed.

> Perhaps, when all is lost.

like what? the dharma? the watch? is it just an analogy?

> And then, that might not be all bad.

are you happy? yes? then change is bad.

> After a spell.
>
> At times, neutral is the best gear
> for me to be idle in.

yes, cruise control... i didn't have time to say don't jump or jump...
you just cruised on by...

> Lights change.
> They cycle.

real timing or artificial?

> That's been my experience.

hahaha... your observation... stick to your method...

> Sometimes they get stuck.

do you know what to do? elmer said look both ways and cross when it is
safe to do so... other than yourself, is there anything about this
event that is unsafe officer?

> At times a sensor goes bad
> or has some glitch and needs
> to be rebooted to function
> as designed.

precisely... how do you propose we re-boot you?

> Sometimes I call it in.
> Sometimes it doesn't bug me.

sometimes? a kettle boils "when" on the element that is hot enough for
long enough... no exceptions...

> You have brought me some light
> in the morning and the evening.

yes, and these days when i come up... people become confused...
especially the dead ones who failed to assess the situation... hunger,
pain, aging... it is a signal of compounded suffering... and when it
goes down... not hope... wild things...

> I don't know if angels have souls.

the devil didn't fall... death did.

> The Universe spins and swirls
> stardust into planets and forms of life.

then you willfully adhere, cling, attach yourself... with all that out
there to explore what stands in your way?

> Perhaps there are many minds.

as many as there are living things... awareness being the foundation
of all living things...

> Pehaps there is only One.

yes, you were already rejected... awareness without object... now, you
have an object of your own... and it is all yours, defined by you...
words do not react... actions do and that is physics... and physics is
Law... rules can be broken, the Law may be bent... but only
temporarily... some people, desperate people... it is the only hope
they have... they needed a savoir... but it together why...

> Deepending on povs.

jump and don't jump... how many conditions to there?... as many as
there are povs... you are one of them... not all of them... you are a
construct of what we have done to you... you can do nothing on your
own... like a priori... a watch... a dharma...

> - shalom

do angels have souls? no. they are soul.

Lucifer

[Wet Paper Bag]

... hahaha... you are so funny matt... and stupid to...

did you forget or did you simply not read... odd isn't it? how you all
suck up dead peoples words... guess they can not argue back...
hahahaha... they only had masters then right? hahaha... dumbass...

but for the record, again and again i suppose... like i said, there is
this candle see... and it is lit see... and you light your candle from
that candle see? and once it is lit see... you can not put it back
see... and so your candle goes out see... but i am not talking candles
see?

i am talking awareness see... it is what you have always been see...
only now see... you are lit see... and no matter what you do see...
you can not put it back see... now unlike the candles see... that is
only an analogy see... now you know you are a candle see... even when
it is out see?... hahaha...

is an observation an experience matt?

because magic is... a play on observation... or do you really think
they sawed that woman in half?... and as for the experience of being
that woman see? she didn't experience being sawed in half either see?
you did. she already knows it is a trick see...

now for the record, if you do not confess there is nothing more i can
do to help you... i will have to refer you to anther lawyer...

are you absolutely certain... that you have never experienced a blue
whale 5 cent licorice? this is the whole ball of wax... our suspect
did... we know it... i gave it to him and he ate it...

but! are you chewing one now...

Lucifer

[being]

Tim wrote:
>
>> >"where is the evidence?"
>>
>> >you said "experiences 'might' be experienced"...
>>
>> Experiences might be experienced. Yes.
>> I said lots of stuff. Such as, for those ... ... .
>> And, for those ... ... .
>
>you said science is a method...

Yes. Typically
when referring to science,
it has to do with a method, a dao.

>> For Yogananda, apparently, Yukteswar gave
>> what is perhaps my best picture of Heaven.
>
>so did i... the kingdom is within...

I don't recall you saying that
nor if Yukteswar said that. I recall Jesus
having been attributed words to that affect.

The same passage
in Thomas suggests it is among us,
as well as all around us, but
people just don't see it.

Given that interpretation,
the best picture that might be presented
could involve great photography or poetry
or some other mythological or metaphysical
type of description.

>> I take it for granted that Yogananda experienced
>> what he wrote about having experienced.
>
>probably. like every bullshitter riding a tread... he only had the
>words for it...

For Yogananda, grabbing his guru,
and talking with him, was, apparently,
a very moving experience.

> nothing you could do... the secret of secrets...

Yukteswar materialized
after having died.

That's what the witness wrote.

Maybe if he had taken pictures
of what it was like for him
that would be satisfactory
for those who don't approve
of only using words for it.

>> He might have experienced that experience.
>> I have no idea really. I wasn't in the room.
>
>but you are in this room yes?

I am sitting in front of a screen at present.

To say I am in the room you are in
might be to say something interesting.

We are separated by a screen.

It's possible many forms of consciousness
are separated by various screens.

Some of them may be quantum. Discrete.

As well as, as you may be saying, hidden.

Folks might wave
from beyond the grave
yet others may not see
nor hear them.

>> It was discussed at some length
>> in terms of various experientials,
>> ore sew I'd like to believe.
>
>and what is the basis of that belief?

I kinda recall some words, on a screen.
My memory is foggy tho. Misinterpretations
are known to have occurred at times.

> karma... dharma could not
>conceive of a picture of heaven being that is what it already is...

I am unsure how to parse that.

>like the question i proposed... what can you think about heaven that
>has no correspondence the the earth experience?

I can't imagine at the moment.

Mostly, in my ideas of Heaven, memories
are conserved. Written in the Akashic Record.

The only evidence I could give for that
would be Cayce and other anecdotal reports.

Presumably life goes on
after one sheds the physical vehicle.

Yukteswar said he was still teaching.
And his students were much better equipped
to understand what he was relating to them.

For him, I suppose, that was his Heaven.

Possibly there are billions of trillions
of forms of Heavens.

Personally, I don't require evidence.

I'm happy musing, singing, pondering
and thinking about it.

> i could not conceive
>of hunger if i was full.

Actually, I do that all the time.

I can be stuffed, but the craving continues.

>> If somebody came back from the dead
>> and told about his or her experience
>> some folks would believe and some not.
>
>i agree. besides, what value would it be to you?

I could offer it as evidence.
Eye-witness testimony.
A jury might accept or reject it.

>... hope?

If one of my dead friends materialized
into a room in which I happened to be,
it might give me hope.

It would certainly reinforce a world-view.
The potential would be fantastic.
The energy released, amazing.

Ultimately, as far as maps go,
I'm not sure how far it would take me.

>... but let
>us say someone did, or like myself, never left... a glitch yes?

Never died?

I've heard of some people who remain.
Yogis sitting in caves for ages.
Some might watch over the planet.

It could be a glitch perhaps.
Or it might actually be perfectly natural.

I might want to qualify it as more of a quirk.

Given our consensus reality spacetime framework,
the modern myth of death might be taken by people
as being so persuasive that they die unwillingly
after a few score years.

Perhaps everyone could be physically immortal
if they knew how to, what to do, and what not to do.

> so i
>suppose i could be a loser, since it is only the weak that have
>aspirations for power and control... and tell you all about it
>tailoring it to my wishes... or perhaps, being the article... i could
>say these are the exercises to get you there...

I don't know what you're talking about.

>> Anecdotes are plentiful.
>
>yes, and so is contradiction of a squirming worm in the hot seat... i
>suppose mental culture give you room to move but then it was what you
>did when given room to move that counts... actions matt... that is the
>only thing that changes anything...

You are referring to kamerm?
I haven't heard from him for a while.

>> Anecdotal evidence is not science,
>> given the scientific method as a dao.
>
>the scientific method as a tao?

Yes. A method, as a method.
Or a doctrine. A teaching. A way.

> but you already have stated that the
>tao is unmoving...

Normally I don't put a -the- in front of tao.

If the definite article, the, slipped in,
that would have been a glitch, for sure.

I can see why you might infer it tho.

There are many dao.

The word, dao, can be singular or plural
as well as a verb or a noun. At least,
accordion to m'eye understanding.

What I recall writing was along the lines of how
dao is always wu-wei. Dao never does anything
yet everything gets done. That would be ziran.
Of-itself-so. Dao moves without moving

Dao is within all things.
Dao is not the 10k things.
Water nourishes all life.
Water is not alive.

Words have lots of meanings.
Often the meanings vary.

> it can not do what is done...

Dao doesn't do anything.
Everything does itself, naturally.
Spontaneously. Without effort.
In this particular view.

The DDJ points.

> it can not see for sight...

Dao has no eyes.
Dao has no mind.

> and from there, a perception of it... yours... it is either
>black or white...

That would not be one of mine.

Mine would be, in terms of a dao,
how black and white go together.

They are as two sides of something else.

That something else would be,
for lack of a better name, dao.

> and thus, the zen symbol using hunger and full... a
>point in each of realization... a motion from one to the other, a
>round as you say... then, kicked out of the tao, you say neti, neti...

I don't know about getting kicked out of the tao.

Tao doesn't have any feet, nor legs to stand on.

Tao would be underneath perhaps.

Perhaps, if on the surface, as with a well,
there is a table, a water table, which has no legs.

I'm not sure when I'd use a way of negation.

If I found myself out of balance,
if neti-neti seamed to me to be a dao
then I'd feel fine using that dao.

If I found tat-vam-asi, being all things, as a dao,
a way to get back in balance, to find a center,
then that would be fine with me too.

Either way, either dao,
either a way of negation
or a way of affirmation,
in terms of identificatioin,
whatever tool works
would be okay to use
as far as I know.

>if taking up a hammer right now and smashing your hand is merely
>anecdotal, then do it.

I don't know why I would want to do that.

I'm not sure what you're point is.

I did recall something about the Law
or what you might mean by those words
in terms of gravity or some reality
frame of reference.

It has been my experience
that gravity is not the Law.

One could,
very possibly, defy the so-called topology
or geometry of what I'd call Euclidean style
thought formation.

I had a type of levitation experience,
one time, when a piece of wood was able
to be moved, by my will, so to speak,
without touching it.

There was a campfire
which had burned down to embers.

A thought entered my mind
that I could move the piece of wood.

It was balanced, apparently, enough
that my feeble powers were sufficient.

I moved it up and down
as easily, more easily, than I do my arm.

It was so simple, so natural,
I simply thought, huh. So that's it.
And went to bed. No big deal.

I've had another experience as well.
But for the sake of this post, I save it
for some other time.

>> We then went on to discuss
>> how, semantically, what constitutes real
>> might be at root of various paradigms.
>
>survival of a self that does not exist...

In a Buddhist frame of reference,
there may not be any permanent self.

Apparently Yogananda was not a Buddhist.
Nor was Yukteswar, perhaps more importantly.

It could be that, while there is no permanent self,
there remains an astral body, a causal body,
and even a soul, as a whirl, a vortex
of energy, of the Universe,
after physically shedding
the vehicle one was in
while being on Earth
for a spell.

If Jesus rose from the dead
then, apparently, he had a self of sorts.

> so you say.. semantics?

At times, yes. Semantics can be at play.
And when they are, context tends to be king.

>those are exceptions to the rules that defy the Law by changing the
>context.

Buddhism might not care about many things
and be more concerned with every day things.

A question was once supposedly asked
about whether there is or isn't a soul or
survival after death, etc., and a Buddha
was said to say, those are irrelevant.

If smashing one's thumb with a hammer hurts
then it doesn't matter where the hammer
was purchased nor how much it cost.

>> Language and legends can be keys.
>
>hahaha... really?

In many realities. Yes. Really.

> don't you mean might?

Some are m'ore mighty than others.

> since of course they are anecdotal.

Even if someone was to return from the dead
and describe what Heaven is like, there would be
those who would not accept the testiment.

>> >you are a anton wilson cast off...
>>
>> I am not too familiar with him.
>> Can't say that I know what he's about.
>
>hahaha... false. i have seen the spyderweb...

I have no idea what you're talking about.

>> >if i appear to be God or Devil... does it matter if it is?
>>
>> It might.
>
>really?

Yes. If it does, then it does.

> then call it something else... call a dog a spoon... does the
>dogs nature change?

I don't know.

If the dog didn't like being called a spoon
then it might do something quirky.

Semantics again.

If the dog is normally very happy
and when you call its name it looks up
and might wag its tale, you might call that
its nature. To wag its tale when you call.

If you call the dog a spoon
and it suddenly gets very upset,
which would be other than its nature,
then it might be wise not to call it that.

The situation rests on the definition
of what is meant by the word, nature.

>> >now my point... no brad wall...
>>
>> I have no idea who brad wall is.
>
>he has a hand in fucking your dream.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

>> > these are real people doing real
>> >shitty thing to other people and you do nothing...
>>
>> I do what I do
>> but I have no idea
>> what you are talking about.
>
>then what can you do?

Very little, if anything.

I could say a prayer for you.
I could try to channel some energy
to change how things are, or appear.

But none of those techniques, those dao,
those methods, none have a guarantee
as far as my ability goes.

Kinda reminds me of Nebuhadneazar's dream.
I get a kick out of that one. And, I like
to believe it really took place.

Maybe you know the story.

Dude has this dream
but upon awakening had forgotten it.
He wanted to know what it was
and what it meant.

So he tells his tellers to tell him
what the dream was and what it meant.
And if they didn't, he was going to kill them.

Enter Daniel. Awesome.
I like to imagine it was real.
Along with the other stories in the book
known by his name. Great stuff.

>> > are you a coward or
>> >do you appear to be a coward?
>>
>> If I appear to you to be a coward
>> then that is how I appear to you to be.
>
>that is semantics and does not answer the question... you are avoiding
>your own self here... i never told you what i think you might be...
>look at the question... by your own admission...

I think I did answer it, below.
Perhaps you wrote before you read.
I do that quite often.

>> At times I am a coward.
>> At times I am not a coward.
>
>really?

Yes. Certainly.

> hahaha... then at what times this and at what times that?

When afraid of something,
take plumbing for example,
and it gets my goat, then
I consider myself
to be a coward.

Instead of doing a job myself,
I excuse myself and call a plumber.

When, otoh, I feel qualified enough
and have enough quantity of energy
then I tackle whatever a job or any
situation that happens to occur.

> now
>you are offended by your own stink... justifying your self to your
>self...

I have no idea where you get that idea.

Perhaps it is a projection.
Perhaps a form of hypocrisy.
Maybe a mirror phenomenon.

I am simply reflecting upon myself
in terms of when I am in various ways/dao.

>> >no death brad... killing?
>>
>> You appear to be talking to someone else,
>> or perhaps it is for your own self.
>
>a part of being the goat... ii am throwing that spear that hits no
>matter how poorly thrown... if you are not real matt, then you are
>merely the air i pass through... being but air... why not jump?

You seem to have jumped
from brad to matt.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

>> >jenna? the flyers and pamphlets are ready... where is my letter?
>>
>> You are not making any sense to me.
>
>good matt...

As God, I guess I might be matt.
As the Universe as well, I am
all things. So there can be that.

> to me...jenna works for the ministry...

I have no idea who jenna is.

>she will be
>forced to prove that seven years of ministry abuse is not malicious...
>if she fails... criminal... federal case... not under the protections
>of the ministry or the province... and not the wrist slap type since
>it is premeditated... a pattern of abuse... surely in that context you
>must know someone i am talking about... or is it you and that is why
>you are blind?

You are not making sense to me.

>due to my popularity, it is impossible for me to get a job. they know
>that. i have eveidence stating that i asked for the minsitry program
>to get me working. they did nothing about it. i asked brad wall for
>work to... no dice... and the city police... nothing... i do not have
>the resources to leave. they know that to. and thus, they are
>threatening me. malicious persecution... have you made your vote
>known? i only assumed you have.

You seem to have gotten into a quirk
if not at least one glitch in terms of realms
of some Heaven or Hell or life on Earth.

[Wet Paper Bag]

On 13 May, 16:06, Wet Paper Bag <ultimate.henchman....@gmail.com>
wrote:

> but! are you chewing one now...

you see matt... i am using mind and awareness alone to control
weather, disasters, murder... all with mind and awareness... no
objects. no consciousness...

a collection of the karmas you feed me, i throw them up into the
dharma, and when they come to fruition, i set the fodder off and
boom... they react and like lightening hits the first ready rod...
action...

i am not psychic, that lameness is for your benefit like spyderman and
netvoice, an explaination for your scientific world but any sort of
follow up see... and you would see that there is no such thing... i am
doing it because i can and you agreed... too late is when you will see
what it is, what you have done, what you have allowed to happen and
alas... it was your diaper not mine that you were shitting in all
along...

when you start feeding me the good stuff... but do not wait to long,
you have every reason to believe me when i say there is a point in
momentum that even i can not overcome... imagine a limited God... how
odd...

and yet... ohh matt and gang... you are just bleeding it all out of
me... all my secrets... i can not resist your inter-goat-ion
methods... killing me with scientific method... aaaa... hahaha... it
is a flow chart matt... not the thing in and of itself... there is a
method to making food... same ingredients... same recipe... but for
some odd unscientific reason... it just taste better when i make it...
no reason for it... just the way it is... must be the special way i
wipe my bum, blow my nose, pick my ears and sweat all over it... or
maybe not...

it says... conclusion does not support the hypothesis... restate the
hypothesis... not the other way around...

Tim

[Wet Paper Bag]

> ...
>
> read more »

hahaha... i can see you from here... just a hint invisible boy...

Lucifer

[Wet Paper Bag]

On 13 May, 16:21, Wet Paper Bag <ultimate.henchman....@gmail.com>
wrote:

hmmm... now i know what ... means to...

hit... read more matt... check the headers... surprise!

Lucifer

[being]

Tim wrote:

> being wrote:
>
>> >so you know what i think being?
>>
>> I don't know, no.
>
>only because you never got passed the eclipses... i told you what i
>was thinking...

Must have missed it during an eclipse.

>> I have experienced telepathy
>> but not in this instance.
>
>voices... nice... of course, that is the difference between here and
>there... there is no fluid connection here...
>
>> However,
>> it appears as though
>> you are going to tell me
>> some of what you think.
>
>already did... and easy procedure yes?...

I could have read the entire post
before responding to any line or lines.

But, in that case, my responses, if any,
would have been different, probably.

> you never felt a thing... i
>am a good doctor... the best... boiling frogs you see... or, hahaha...
>don't see...
>
>> That's more of a guess
>> than anything else.
>
>sure... keep guessing... now do you know what i mean when i say ...
>you are violating your own terms of debate...

I still figure it's a conversation.

I share some stuff.
You share some stuff.

Sometimes it makes sense.
At times we can relate.

But not always.

> my job is to hold it up
>to prevent you from getting that illusion... to stop you from landing
>the plane while adding more passengers and weight...

I don't know what you're talking about.

>> Based upon what is, evidently, written
>> below this line of text, on a screen.
>
>evidently... hahaha.. a genuine skeptic yes?

There is a skeptical mind
to be found among neural nets
to be found within a skull
which I usually call mine.

How genuine it is
might be subject to semantics.

> too bad you do not know
>what a skeptic is...

I imagine there can be many types.

> it is to not accept word over experience... it is
>a good scientific strategy...

Science can be a powerful method.

Other methods might exist
which bring questions to rest.

Factual truth is a type of truth.
Metaphorical truth is another type.
Mythological truth yet a third.

Some people might insist and even think
that the only truth that counts as truth
is factual truth.

And that's okay with me.

Fundamentalists abound.

Legalism and dogmatism
are not confined to any denomination.

Those of the scientific persuasion
might be the most possessed
by such spirits, at times.

> like... the sand content of potash is
>negligible... use it... pad the bill, dump accesses... there is no
>negligible corrosive value...

I think I saw a show about that,
where a building fell due to bad materials.

>and then there is that antidote story...
>the one where the the guy says... pay me a penny... and tomorrow?
>double it... and the next day double the total... those will be my
>wages for one month... just 30 days...

Yes. Math can be exponential.

>> Neti neti can be a method.
>
>can be... so can wearing a condom...

True.
So can marriage.

Some ways are advised
as being more conducive to life.

Some ways are suggested to avoid
as leading to death.

>> Tat vam asi can be a method.
>
>is it the same method as science and neti, neti...

I don't think so. Not normally.

Science would lean more toward objective
types of fashions of thought formation.

The scientific method begins at times
with an axiom, a given, unquestioined,
that the subject who performs the experiment
isn't a factor in the experiment.

That makes sense, given the method.

To think there was no subject however
might be something called into question.

But I don't think it is on par with neti-neti.

For me, when I think of a way of negation,
not-this, not-that, it has more to do with
how I identify myself. With what I am.

It's a way to arrive at no-self.

I'm not sure if it'd be science,
unless, perhaps an occult science.

With that form, the experimentor
is a part of the equation and experiments
on oneself in the process.

It'd be a pseudo-science for many
if not most skeptics.

>what kind of people
>wear a condom?

Probably those who want protection.

From being a father, or from disease.

Maybe other stuff too.
Might be many kinds and sorts.

>> Quite often, a method I use
>> is to see methods as methods.
>
>sure... and if i look at one of those old three dimensional
>pictures... all the rage in the early 90s... i can see it... but the
>method? do it too often and fuck your vision up... neti, neti...

Moderation tends to be a middle path.

>> As a daoist,
>
>you are not a taoist ...

If you say I am not,
then, to you, I am not.

> you are a qlippoth ... must be something in
>it though else why stop now?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

>> this can be an interpretation
>> of DDJ 1.1 where dao can be dao
>> but are not always dao.
>
>no. that is not what it means...

If, to you, that is not what it means,
then, to you, that is not what it means.

> it means there is no definitive definition.

If that is your definitive definition
then that is a kind of strange definition.

> i thought we already covered this?

Thoughts vary.

> a dog can lick its nuts
>although licking its nuts is not the whole of the nature of the dog...
>it is not a method... it is an observation.
>
>further, extending your delusions... a bird can fly. a bird is a
>living being... i am a living being... you should really pay attention
>as much as your students matt... thus, having the same nature as
>you... we are the reason you can not fly not the birds...

Your reasoning doesn't make sense to me.

I didn't know matt had students.
Guess it's a different matt you're talking to now.

>> Tools are tools.
>
>hahaha... my bitch... yes, you can use a hammer to chop down a tree.
>
>> I enjoy and appreciate
>> having more than just a hammer
>> to smash watches with.
>
>hahaha... again, that is not what i said... i said to undo the watch
>to deconstruct the watch to a point before a watch... what is that
>point a priori?

I'm not sure.

Before the watch was a watch
it, presumably, was an idea.

The term, a priori,
is not one I am familiar with.

> what is a watch? no idea.

I figure it's a method, an instrument,
a tool, used to keep track of or to tell time.

> so how do you propose to
>reconstruct it?

If it's been smashed by a hammer
then probably it's broken.

When I used to take them apart
I had no idea how to put them together.

I'd like to think I could now
but I am often wrong.

> thus, as i said in extension... of course you missed
>it being as there are two here and not just you which by convenience
>is just another method... neti, yeti... that if the basis is dharma...
>wait... if the basis is heaven... then what could heaven conceive?

I don't know.

If Heaven is able to conceive,
along the lines of how the Universe does,
then all that is, is given birth, via Heaven.

Maybe you meant something else
by your use of your words.

>> Perhaps you are projecting
>> and seeing your own reflections.
>
>hahaha... ok... but as for many bodies Jewboy... they are called
>sephiroth... and the radiating intelligence is a body. see that?

I've heard of the term
but am not familiar with the paradigm.

Do you blend it with Buddhism and no-self?

Or turn the pages of the maps.

Or do something else.

> do
>you leave it there? or do you do your homework for all the various
>bodies? last i heard, there were 72 names of God... is that 72
>natures? is that all of it then?...

I like to think of God as Mother Nature.
I don't know if that's one of the 72.

> and was it not IHVH that breathed
>into the clay the fire of life?...

I've heard of YHWH and the breath.

Maybe you are referring to a system of thought
that I am unfamiliar with. Very possible.

> fuck man, i can say Jew in any
>context and still know more about than you...

That's entirely possible.

> but in terms of your
>semantics, how you contextualize my statements to perform some
>illusion or another...

Probably my own fantasy-reality.

Everything gets filtered thru my neurons.

At times they have minds of their own.

They might play all sorts of tricks
and treat me to various shows.

As if I am not them.

And, if I happen to be an I in the heart
then, those ones in the brain aren't me.

How many neurons it takes to construct an I
might be something for science to dissect.

Maybe they'll figure the electro-chemistry
that is known as an I-wave consists of
only one, which sets up a cascade
as its axons reach across to
dendrites in a body.

And then, when the wave reaches
across other bodies, other organs, or
from person to person, then that wave
might be seen as a form of a bigger
sort of picture show.

> i know more if not as much as any rabbi... that
>Jewboy... is respect...not what you do... that is a blasphemy... the
>reason people think jews are stupid superstitious fools...

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Gotta go for now tho.

Maybe be back later.

- shalom!

[Tim]

On 13 May, 16:49, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> I'm not sure what you're talking about.
>
> Gotta go for now tho.
>
> Maybe be back later.
>
> - shalom!

hahaha... yes you do... you get stumped somewhere else, come here and
i pretend to give you an answer... then you take my answer and peddle
it somewhere else... dude, it is not rocket science.

but in the end... the applications... what can you do about that since
all you have to do is undo what i am doing... then i must not really
be telling you anything and since you do not know... you can not tell
the difference... we protect it from the profane...

the only reason i have entertained you on this thread is to try and
show monkey something about philosophy... it really has nothing to do
with you other than the priviledge and acknowledgement that yes jay,
you have come a long way as far as content goes... really, i mean
that...

but as far as applications go, there are so many chances out there...
you had your chance and did not make the grade... years ago... i even
gave you a second chance a last year... and further, your hand is a
cause and an action for the events that followed... what was done to
me... dig your own hole fucknuts i said no, meant it then and mean it
now...

you are going to Hell Jewboy...

Jesus Christ

[Wet Paper Bag]

facts Jewboy... now for the sake of the art... i thought you would
have left this alone at 69... so being that you are a Jewjew...
consider the fact... the qlippoth?... say... the accusers... those who
bear false witness... yes, the corresponding hell is where they go,
not where they are from, not what they serve...

it is the classic stolen but changed formula from egypt... where it
sates clearly that simply to be born in egypt to egyptian parents does
not mean you are egyptian... it is not enough... you must prove it by
initiation...

you and i have a date motherfucker... on my terms this time... no
rush... take your time... i will remain obliviou suntil the end...
nothing like starting off our date with you whining... you are
jiking... you are joking... you will certainly feel differently about
what you are doing, what you have done this fall... you have waited 11
years... 6 more months motherfucker and then i am going to tear the
flesh from your body... then burn it shut... then let you go... if you
want death... jump...

eagleraven

[kamerm]

being wrote:
> Tim wrote:
...

> You are not making sense to me.

...

in a.p.t, pretty much only Tom/Jer and Rick played much with sock-puppets..

a.z, was (is?) packed with them. Tim/wpb is trying to determine which
puppeteer you are, by pressing "buttons" until he evokes a response.

*

re. old-timers coming and going - having nothing to say, that you don't say
as well or better, i don't say much.
have no idea how many others (don't)do likewise.

even the crescent moon outshines a distant star old friend :-)

-k

[{:-])))]

kamerm wrote:
> being wrote:
>> Tim wrote:
>...
>> You are not making sense to me.
>...
>
>in a.p.t, pretty much only Tom/Jer and Rick played much with sock-puppets..
>
>a.z, was (is?) packed with them. Tim/wpb is trying to determine which
>puppeteer you are, by pressing "buttons" until he evokes a response.

Aye, assumed he remembered
until it appeared he did knot.

>*
>
>re. old-timers coming and going - having nothing to say, that you don't say
>as well or better, i don't say much.
>have no idea how many others (don't)do likewise.
>
>even the crescent moon outshines a distant star old friend :-)

Good to see your reflections within
such lights as they light up
paths in the knights
of the round.

[being]

being wrote:
> Tim wrote:
>> being wrote:
>>
>>> >so you know what i think being?
>>>
>>> I don't know, no.
>>
>>only because you never got passed the eclipses... i told you what i
>>was thinking...
>
>Must have missed it during an eclipse.

... snip ...

>I'm not sure what you're talking about.
>
>Gotta go for now tho.
>
>Maybe be back later.
>
>- shalom!

Picking back
up where eye left off ... .

>>> Yes. At times.
>>
>>at times?

I've forgotten the question.

>> then you concede that consciousness and object are one...

I would say, and see, how they can be seen as one.
They can also be seen, as well, as two.
Not to mention three.
Plus the 10k.
And there may be differences, also,
subtracted from equations ore paradigms.

>>but i am not talking about those... awareness with out an object...
>>where you are from... awareness of object... where you are... and when
>>it sleeps... you sleep because you think awareness is off...

In dreams, consciousness drifts
more than during what I'd call an awakened state.

In deep sleep, normally I'd call that form unconsciousness.

Semantics might be at play.

A turning point can be in
where it is the unconscious that is conscious.

Akin to the tip of an iceberg.

All made of water.

Waters of Unconsciousness, sew to spin a tale.

Floating in such a notion, some of it freezes
and, while nine-tenths remains beneath a surface,
a small portion of the huge Sea may see
above the water within
the water.

Sleep can be said to have its own functions.
Returning to forms of Unconsciousness.

>>> >shall i begin explanations into these Laws that I have yet to
>>> >disclose? do you take my word that they are there? or do you simply
>>> >lack the experience to know them... or is it the method that i was
>>> >prevented from disclosing?
>>>
>>> I have no idea.
>>> Continue if you desire to.
>>
>>dude, that again is the point.. you keep pushing the envelope with no
>>concept of what the full consequence of this current lesson is...

I have no idea about what the lesson is.
I figured we were sharing thoughts.

If you are trying to teach me something,
if you are assuming or presuming life is a school
of some variety or other, that's interesting as well,
as far as paradigms go, to me.

>>that
>>is the thrill and you are addicted... no soup for you until we clean
>>up this mess or it just gets messier...

There appear to be several posts awaiting
to be read for me this morning.

No idea if I'll get to them all
at this rate of response.

>>> I am okay with taking your word
>>> that various realities appear to you
>>> to be various realities. Or, if you stipulate
>>> that there is only one really real reality
>>> then that is, by definition, your assertion.
>>
>>hahaha... i am a reality that appears to you.

A form of reality. Yes.
Many realities appear to me to be, at times.

To think in such terms
can be said to be a form of thought.

Many forms of thought appear to me, at times.

My thoughts of you are forms.
Forms of consciousness. Forms of reality.

Forms of consciousnesses. Forms of realities.

Forms of words as they form and inform me.

>>> If you feel and think you are prevented
>>> from disclosing something you'd like to disclose
>>> then I don't know what to say.
>>
>>then what can i possibly say?

Whatever you'd like to disclose
whenever you think and feel
that you are not prvented.

>>> Often I am at a loss.
>>>
>>> At times I am at a gain.
>>
>>what is your assessment under my tootlage? loss or gain?

I was not aware of being under your tootlage.

What are you trying to teach me?

>>> Interesting, to me, at the moment,
>>> how again and again appears, to me.
>>
>>i desire to move forward and disclose... you are profane and thus it
>>is not my desire... it, as you see, again and again... are your words
>>that keep bringing you back to here... as above so below... actions
>>see?

Yes. I am aware of many things, ideas,
thoughts, forms of consciousness, realities.

How some of them work, don't work,
work-without-working, form, reform, inform, etc.

As a sacred place, the world
might evoke profane.

Being sacred
as well as profane
could be called a form of Dao.

Unless one stipulates otherwise,
by a definition of sorts.

Lots of waze to slice and dice

an uncarved b'lock a round the block.

Maybe it's the block, as uncarved,
which prevents you from carving.

To remain in an Undifferentiated state, Wu,
there remains nothing to say.

One,
in that state, is prevented,
from saying anything.

Even to say, Mu/Wu
is already having said too
much to break the state out
of which it was in.

>>> Normally I don't say
>>> aloss and aloss.
>>
>>then something has changed.

I have no idea what you mean.

>>> Perhaps, when all is lost.
>>
>>like what? the dharma? the watch? is it just an analogy?

There is an expression, alack and alas,
which may refer to hitting such a bottom.

At extremes, yin and yang reverse.

The apex is termed as not-dao, bu-dao.

Which might appear to be a contradiction,
yet which is not, when seen from a level
by which it is not a contradiction.

By the same token, in terms of words,
at the bottom of a cycle, a reversal occurs.

Ichin once termed it yin-yang-cuo.

A point of inflection.

Inflection often points.

>>> And then, that might not be all bad.
>>
>>are you happy? yes? then change is bad.

I might be more happy.
Then, change is good.

When the peak is reached
and there is no other place to go,
then it's all down hill, for better
or for worse. At times.

>>> After a spell.
>>>
>>> At times, neutral is the best gear
>>> for me to be idle in.
>>
>>yes, cruise control... i didn't have time to say don't jump or jump...
>>you just cruised on by...
>>
>>> Lights change.
>>> They cycle.
>>
>>real timing or artificial?

In terms of traffic lights, they're both.

>>> That's been my experience.
>>
>>hahaha... your observation... stick to your method...

Yes. I experience waiting for a light
and observe it has lost its mind.

If that presents a problem for me,
then I phone in to the folks to fix it.

They reset or reboot or replace
whatever the glitch that induced the quirk
and I am a happy camper there for a spell.

The spell wears off quickly
as an accustomization sets it.

I then take the light for granted.

It's when I know a smart light isn't acting
as smart as it could be acting, when it changes
from sense-mode to time-mode, that then
is when what was taken for granted
turns to be what was.

Appreciation can be interesting.

>>> Sometimes they get stuck.
>>
>>do you know what to do?

Yes. As I wrote, I call it in.

This can be physically real,
mythologically true, and effective.

The metaphor might hold meaning.

>> elmer said look both ways and cross when it is
>>safe to do so... other than yourself, is there anything about this
>>event that is unsafe officer?

Not that I am aware of.

>>> At times a sensor goes bad
>>> or has some glitch and needs
>>> to be rebooted to function
>>> as designed.
>>
>>precisely... how do you propose we re-boot you?

Probably ask, if there's a glitch on your mind.

A mirror might reflect in many ways.

When you write, " you "
are you referring to a portion of yourself?

>>> Sometimes I call it in.
>>> Sometimes it doesn't bug me.
>>
>>sometimes?

Yes.

There are lights that used to be smart
but have gotten out of sense-mode
and now simply are in stupid time-mode.

Since I am not in a hurry to get anywhere,
those intersections don't bother me
as they would if I was on a schedule
and in a hurry.

Intersections might be physically real
or mythologically and metaphorically points
of inflection. Many moons might mean
many things at times, in ways.

>> a kettle boils "when" on the element that is hot enough for
>>long enough... no exceptions...

If that is your reality.
Your observations. Your experience.

>>> You have brought me some light
>>> in the morning and the evening.
>>
>>yes, and these days when i come up... people become confused...
>>especially the dead ones who failed to assess the situation... hunger,
>>pain, aging... it is a signal of compounded suffering... and when it
>>goes down... not hope... wild things...
>>
>>> I don't know if angels have souls.
>>
>>the devil didn't fall... death did.
>>
>>
>>> The Universe spins and swirls
>>> stardust into planets and forms of life.
>>
>>then you willfully adhere, cling, attach yourself...

At times, yes.
At times, no.

To will, can be another word-phrase-phase,
another infintive, subject to semantical shifting
as well as sifting thru the gears, at times.

>> with all that out
>>there to explore what stands in your way?

Of detaching?

Flipping thru pages of maps
can be a luxury of spacetime at times.

>>> Perhaps there are many minds.
>>
>>as many as there are living things...

With each neuron a living thing
I wonder how many there are
within a single brain, or heart,
or other organ with nerve-cells
which, when combined, are a mind.

>> awareness being the foundation
>>of all living things...

Each single cell, every neuron, aware.
Each is conscious, in its own way/dao.

>>> Pehaps there is only One.
>>
>>yes, you were already rejected...

You rejected me?

>> awareness without object... now, you
>>have an object of your own... and it is all yours, defined by you...
>>words do not react... actions do and that is physics... and physics is
>>Law... rules can be broken, the Law may be bent... but only
>>temporarily... some people, desperate people... it is the only hope
>>they have... they needed a savoir... but it together why...

You seem to subscribe and adhere,
and perhaps cling, to a notion of Law,
as if it actually exists.

That might be a form of truth.

Gravity used to be called a law, the Law.

Until Einstein reframed the topology.

Then, what was thought of a one law
turned out to be simply a curved spacetime.

It tends to be viewed as a continuum,
except QM sees seas as discrete.

Foam and froth may break as waves
tumble onto coasting lines
of thought.

>>> Deepending on povs.
>>
>>jump and don't jump... how many conditions to there?... as many as
>>there are povs... you are one of them... not all of them...

If that is how you identify me.

>> you are a
>>construct of what we have done to you...

If that is the paradigm you choose to use.

>>you can do nothing on your
>>own... like a priori... a watch... a dharma...
>>
>>> - shalom
>>
>>do angels have souls? no. they are soul.

M'ore, then One?

>>Lucifer

[being]

Tim wrote:

> being wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what you're talking about.
>>
>> Gotta go for now tho.
>>
>> Maybe be back later.
>>
>> - shalom!
>
>hahaha... yes you do...

Aye. Did and done.
Gotta go again soon.
Prolly return, again, and again.

>you get stumped somewhere else, come here and
>i pretend to give you an answer... then you take my answer and peddle
>it somewhere else... dude, it is not rocket science.
>
>but in the end... the applications... what can you do about that since
>all you have to do is undo what i am doing... then i must not really
>be telling you anything and since you do not know... you can not tell
>the difference... we protect it from the profane...

Just out of curiosity, when you write, "we"
to whom are you referring?

>the only reason i have entertained you on this thread is to try and
>show monkey something about philosophy...

I sincerely doubt if he read any of it.

If he happened to read it, I doubt if it made
very much sense to him. His reality tends
to appear to be very narrow to me.

But, then again, I don't read all of his, or your
posts. After a while there are other things
which interest me and capture m'eye
attention spanning spells.

> it really has nothing to do
>with you other than the priviledge and acknowledgement that yes jay,
>you have come a long way as far as content goes... really, i mean
>that...

Gee, thanks Tim.

I skipped the posts
where you seemed to be talking to kamerm.

Kinda pressed for time this morning.

>but as far as applications go, there are so many chances out there...
>you had your chance and did not make the grade...

I was not aware of any grades.

> years ago... i even
>gave you a second chance a last year...

That's nice of you.

> and further, your hand is a
>cause and an action for the events that followed... what was done to
>me... dig your own hole fucknuts i said no, meant it then and mean it
>now...
>
>you are going to Hell Jewboy...

Been there. Done that.

The thread had m'ore to do with Heaven
as far as I was involved as it evolved.

Pictures of Hell might be painted, shot,
through and through, if that's what one is into
as two, three and 10k-things.

>Jesus Christ

As one, with the Father, paradigms
might multiply per dozen and then sum.

All was, accordion to Paul, predestined.
Cause-effect might affect one's view
when evoking such a grid-work.

In terms of Law, it may serve well.
There was a woman there, whom Jesus
told all about herself.

Lots of great tales to tell.

- as they may dew

[Wet Paper Bag]

On 14 May, 09:06, being <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> Picking back
> up where eye left off ... .

hahaha... you say that so triumphanly my bitch... bet it feels like a
victory yes?...

like the star phoenix Jew who threatened me by telling me to
disappear... the next day, some guy was selling his truck, two guys
contacted him and they went for a test drive... they found him
yesterday... murdered and burned... his name was... ??.. the
lightening rod idea? it is true... when i release it into the dharma
without mind, just awareness, it hits the weakest vessels, the most
ready, the where the conditions are ripe...

speaking of ripe, more facts Jew... did you like my show? did you see
it? i mean if you want to step into the arena with me you should at
least know that CBC radio is where messages are sent to you... the
tearing the flesh off... that is what got your panties knotted yes?...
your rebellious nature... yes, in flamed wasn't it?

in syria today a video was released, an alleged rebel ripped the heart
out of a man and took a bite for your viewing pleasure... i can aim
ithe karma and be very specific... will it as they say... but again...
this is about bring all of you down not just the individuals
responsible... that was the pact... and as i said, the pacts will be
fulfilled... what do i mean by that Jew?

simply this... only the weak crave power and control... their ownly
means is by violence but death? they are deluded... like those qlipoth
and their corresponding hells... they are not demons rather, in the
more ancient ways, they are Jews who do certain things which
alternately through the Law...lead to specific mental illnesses and
disorders... like a guilty conscience leads to paranoid delusions...
and once the Jew manifests that delusion... angels jump all over it...

> >>> Yes. At times.
>
> >>at times?
>
> I've forgotten the question.

odd yes?, all you need to do is move up one post and it is right
there... i wonder how much you will forget and not understand today...
is this your best shot at antagonism? or are your meds starting to
show their side effects... you sound like a boxer on the ropes... he
taking head shot after head shot, body blow after body blow... and
everyone is saying... why doesn't he move... why doesn't he defend
himself... why doesn't he change position... because he is punch
drunk... and from his pov... i don't understand... i forget... i do
not know what you mean... what is happening... hahaha... let's dance.

> I would say, and see, how they can be seen as one.
> They can also be seen, as well, as two.

true. but that is not what i am saying... i am saying that without an
object, there is nothing to be conscious of...

> Not to mention three.

true. but that is not what you mean. awareness is what i mean... to be
conscious of awareness not an object... so really.. is awareness
three? hahaha... and in the end.. can you do it? why not? ah yes,
because as soon as you relax your defenses enough your mental illness
start to surface and they play havoc with your reality... do you think
i can tell the difference?... can you manifest your will? can you move
something other than a loser suffering from low self esteem?... i do
not use people, power over people, not control people... oddly,
knowing who i am, this seems to upset them... not telling them what i
would do.. and if i do.. laike harmon, they get their panties in a
knot and i say... look man, just saying, we both have a stake here, we
both have things to lose... do what you want, and what you do? is what
happens... i do not give a fuck... i really don't.

> Plus the 10k.
> And there may be differences, also,
> subtracted from equations ore paradigms.

yes, exactly the lesson you do not understand because you are stupid..
and then you memorize the answer, not knowing whether it... is true...
false... meaningless... partly true/ partly false... partly true/
partly meaningless... partly false/ partly meaning less.. that is the
language of the illuminati son... designed to be master for this
reason... and then throw in your inability to understand... you
inclination to use the information to set yourself free... from what
asshole?... i mean let's face it, the only reason you are here now
performing for me fool is that you find yourself in a place where all
those of the past are not rebelling from your tyranny... there is no
other reason for it.. you ran your temporal distance and now the dream
is falling in to crush you...

so yes, that is what it says just as i said... 1... 2... 3... 1^1,
2^2, 3^3... each time you complicate symbol (simple) things by adding
more symbols (digits or characters)... the whole thing grows
expodentially... you loss sight of the tao... you do not accept that
the glitch is false... rather than return to the tao, you apply the
tao to the glitch and say that it is what is to changed... when you
change the dharma/truth... karma, then the glitch, so you add another
symbol, digit, character, word...

> In dreams, consciousness drifts
> more than during what I'd call an awakened state.

no. in dreams objects arise... do you wake up?... and if awareness, in
life or death is always on and you are always it... and those
impressions are from something deeper soomething repressed... and if
it is the material component that stores those latent powers, like a
spring loaded trigger... adn when that material component is triggered
by death... like i said you can allow me to help you siphon it off or
you can take the hit all at once... trouble is, in your state
anyway... yuo can not get close enough to me to allow me to do that
for you... and honestly... i will not let you... there is this pact
you see...

> In deep sleep, normally I'd call that form unconsciousness.

unknown not unconscious. it is where automatic systems operate.. it is
why as a accomplished yogi, you can "hear" the signal from the bladder
saying i have to pee... you can then "feel" how long it takes for the
release signal to get back to the bladder... it is why you breathe
without thinking yuo should... it is also where things forgotten
exist... things repressed, things you hide from others, and... my
favorite fodder... things you hide from your self... and your
karma...

at least we agree that in sleep, where the object shuts off and since
your consciousness is that object only... you "think" you are off... i
assure you however, if you can resist the urge when you fall... you
will find yourself aware in that dharma... no body and senseless...
just being, purely... no mind to speak of... and when the mind arises,
it brings objects... karma yet to be fructified...

>
> Semantics might be at play.

really Jew it is all you have left to go on.. desparate i think but...
you are after all a drowning man... and anything i throw you looks
like a preserver... but like i said, you can not get close enough nor
will i let you... your delusional mental and frantic state suggests...
statistically, that you will try to pull me down to save yourself...
fact...

> A turning point can be in
> where it is the unconscious that is conscious.

oh... hahaha... i am sorry i did not give you the answer as to why
this was funny before... from your own conditons of debate, since you
must be joking... a turning point is impossible...

next, your need based on a delusion of hope suggesting deparation,
resistence to what is as its forming matrix is contradictory to your
instinct for survival... a revealing, and as i said a rising of
objects which frighten you... do you know that most soldiers piss
their pants with fear before they jump out of the trenches and run to
the objective?... odd eh? even hussien... blubbering idiot... of
course you are much superior to those great examples...

anyway... consider the tension in the spring? how many years have
scientists been warning about climate change?... economist about
collapse? resource managers about non-renewable resources being
deplete...

last year, we hit the turning point... fair is fair... tent years for
ten years... andthis year more as will next year be worse... and that
was at my hand as you know but of course deny since as you know jay...
if i am and what i say is truth... you are fucked... i mean it, there
is no coming back from what you have done.. awareness is it, the end
and the beginning... i do not give a fuck what you think death is, you
have no experience... but look at yourself... still moving forward...
it is not an option and that is what you are frantically trying to
negotiate out of me... an option... a choice... what is, is... no
excpetions...

> Akin to the tip of an iceberg.

true.

> All made of water.

and water forms around what to become rain? and that minutely fine,
fine dust in potash... does it not also collect mass outside of the
object?

> Waters of Unconsciousness, sew to spin a tale.

sure... sure... tell us a story.. is their a princess? a hero? a
monster?

> Floating in such a notion, some of it freezes
> and, while nine-tenths remains beneath a surface,
> a small portion of the huge Sea may see
> above the water within
> the water.

and perhaps as a living thing the universe is alive... the earth, is
alive, that what is contained in the one it can not exceed and thus
what you are is contained in the seed, the clay, the air you
breathe.... and that earth level of awareness is millions of years old
and is in distress... the body is sick and as you will learn from
rachael, the mind is feverish... and so, death to the Jews... back to
the source... what awaits... more heaven? more stories? or what it
is... and it is not happy... and it is not happy with you...

> Sleep can be said to have its own functions.
> Returning to forms of Unconsciousness.

but your awareness is not in awareness... it is consciousness and all
you are conscious of is the body.. a vessel, a great container with
many hidden rooms... where things lirk, your own things...what you do
has nothing to do with me.

> I have no idea about what the lesson is.
> I figured we were sharing thoughts.

in a sense we are. my thoughts and your thoughts... power of will... i
do understand... your thought has no influence here... why not let me
go before i get serious...

> If you are trying to teach me something,
> if you are assuming or presuming life is a school
> of some variety or other, that's interesting as well,
> as far as paradigms go, to me.

sure. life is a school. as for teach you something... it is
aposteriori for you... you are the lesson...

> There appear to be several posts awaiting
> to be read for me this morning.

you are a powerful guru...

> No idea if I'll get to them all
> at this rate of response.

a powerful lazy guru... not at all the qualitiy students seek...

<snip>... repetition... please suggest a new way of saying the same
old thing... without changing the formula...

Lucifer

[brian mitchell]

Wet Paper Bag <ultimate.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Being" wrote:

> . . .you ran your temporal distance and now the dream

>is falling in to crush you...

Hear the mercy!

I guess even the Ever-Ready Bunny runs out of juice at some point, but can he be re-charged? It
seems to take a quantity of something... energy, luck, spirit, merit, who-knows?... to realize. If
one has shot one's spiritual bolt
is that,
like,
IT?

>> In dreams, consciousness drifts
>> more than during what I'd call an awakened state.
>
>no. in dreams objects arise... do you wake up?... and if awareness, in
>life or death is always on and you are always it... and those
>impressions are from something deeper soomething repressed... and if
>it is the material component that stores those latent powers, like a
>spring loaded trigger... adn when that material component is triggered
>by death... like i said you can allow me to help you siphon it off or
>you can take the hit all at once... trouble is, in your state
>anyway... yuo can not get close enough to me to allow me to do that
>for you... and honestly... i will not let you... there is this pact
>you see...
>
>
>> In deep sleep, normally I'd call that form unconsciousness.
>
>unknown not unconscious. it is where automatic systems operate.. it is
>why as a accomplished yogi, you can "hear" the signal from the bladder
>saying i have to pee... you can then "feel" how long it takes for the
>release signal to get back to the bladder... it is why you breathe
>without thinking yuo should... it is also where things forgotten
>exist... things repressed, things you hide from others, and... my
>favorite fodder... things you hide from your self... and your
>karma...

Telepathic clearing is some powerful medicine and I was lucky enough to catch a ride for a while
with some people who were highly skilled at it. It didn't last long. Parts and clues scattered all
round the world.

[being]

Wet Paper Bag wrote:

> being wrote:
>
>> Picking back
>> up where eye left off ... .
>
>hahaha... you say that so triumphanly my bitch... bet it feels like a
>victory yes?...

I have no idea what you're talking about
nor to whom you are talking.

>like the star phoenix Jew who threatened me by telling me to
>disappear... the next day, some guy was selling his truck, two guys
>contacted him and they went for a test drive... they found him
>yesterday... murdered and burned... his name was... ??

I have no idea what you are talking about.

>.. the
>lightening rod idea? it is true... when i release it into the dharma
>without mind, just awareness, it hits the weakest vessels, the most
>ready, the where the conditions are ripe...

As an actor on a stage
you appear very involved in your plot.

You seem to like to be, or perhaps can't help yourself
from, thinking, on the one hand that you are a form of God
but that others are not.

That tends to be a funny-strange mode.
Perhaps ego-structures filter perceptions.

>speaking of ripe, more facts Jew... did you like my show?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

> did you see it?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

> i mean if you want to step into the arena with me you should at
>least know that CBC radio is where messages are sent to you...

I don't know what CBC radio is.

> the
>tearing the flesh off... that is what got your panties knotted yes?...
>your rebellious nature... yes, in flamed wasn't it?

You appear to have drifted quite a bit off
and away from anything I am able to understand.

Do you take medications
to help you function in your culture?

If so, perhaps they can be tuned in
if you would like to be better understood.

If not, perhaps you can find some to use
if you would care to be better understood.

>in syria today a video was released, an alleged rebel ripped the heart
>out of a man and took a bite for your viewing pleasure...

I don't usually care for those types of news stories.

Do you enjoy watching and hearing about them?

> i can aim
>ithe karma and be very specific...

Sounds like an interesting trip.

> will it as they say...

If you can do it for the Amazing Randi,
then perhaps you are on to the Law
as given by Science and its Method.

You appeared to be impressed with that
a while ago when we shared a few words.

Maybe now you have flipped out
in to another frame of reference
where so-called science is not
in your field of play.

> but again...
>this is about bring all of you down

I don't know who your, " you "
happens to be at the moment.

Who, in your perception, are one up
nor why you might want to be.

> not just the individuals
>responsible... that was the pact... and as i said, the pacts will be
>fulfilled...

I don't know recall the pacts you have made
nor with whom. You may have mentioned
something about something in this thread.

>what do i mean by that Jew?
>simply this... only the weak crave power and control...

Do you crave power and control?

It kinda looks that way to me.

Perhaps you are blind to this
and it sets up a distortion field at play
within your neural networks and in your denial,
if you deny your power and control deals,
feed-back loops are generated
until you begin to howl.

That could explain a form of Law
given by neuro-science in terms of brain function
and so-called dysfuction.

There might be chemicals to moderate the flow
of synpatic junctures. Probably they would include
filtering out the highs and lows though.

Many brains don't like that.
Reminds me of the CD, discrete chops which
audiofiles claim to be able to hear.

> their ownly
>means is by violence but death? they are deluded... like those qlipoth

I have no idea what a qlipoth is.

>and their corresponding hells... they are not demons rather, in the
>more ancient ways, they are Jews who do certain things which
>alternately through the Law...lead to specific mental illnesses and
>disorders... like a guilty conscience leads to paranoid delusions...
>and once the Jew manifests that delusion... angels jump all over it...

Perhaps that is the realm you are in
or drift in and out of.

You might be painting a good
if not your own best pictures
of Heaven and Hell, and
perhaps they include
the same thing, except
you see them from one side
or the other as you flip-flop
back and forth.

Could be that in your projections,
onto me as well as others, it is your own
reflection but you are unable to own
that reflection of yourself seeing
how all is all in all.

>> >>> Yes. At times.
>>
>> >>at times?
>>
>> I've forgotten the question.
>
>odd yes?

Even still.

>, all you need to do is move up one post and it is right
>there...

I'm lazy.

>i wonder how much you will forget and not understand today...

Probably most of everything.

>is this your best shot at antagonism?

Not at all. Is it yours?

> or are your meds starting to
>show their side effects...

Interesting how the stories go.
I had just written about that same idea.

Except, I had thought perhaps it was a lack
of taking any chemicals on your part
so you could work or do whatever
you were saying you could not do.

>you sound like a boxer on the ropes...

Probably a mirror phenomenon, an echo.

You might be perceiving as radiating from me
the vibes you are giving out.

Reminds me of the old rubber-glue bounce.

>he
>taking head shot after head shot, body blow after body blow... and
>everyone is saying... why doesn't he move... why doesn't he defend
>himself... why doesn't he change position...

Lots of stuff goes over my head.
I like to say it's a result of me being unconscious.

An old friend once asked me if stuff just rolls off my back.
I was so unaware of what he was talking about,
having no idea, I had no idea.

Being here to simply converse,
to exchange ideas on various levels,
what you might think you are doing, boxing
or having a debate, or whatever you think it is,
is more about what's in your head or body
than it has to do with me.

> because he is punch drunk...

I have heard of the kool-aid.
There was something about the acid too.

>and from his pov... i don't understand... i forget... i do
>not know what you mean... what is happening... hahaha... let's dance.

Dances of words is a better description.
Words about words, about pictures.

You might crave power and whatever else
you feel others might be wanting.

Letting go of that trip
might help one to not fall
into realms of not-one
at all.

>> I would say, and see, how they can be seen as one.
>> They can also be seen, as well, as two.
>
>true. but that is not what i am saying... i am saying that without an
>object, there is nothing to be conscious of...

Okay.

I can relate to that.

Sounds good to me so far.

>> Not to mention three.
>
>true. but that is not what you mean. awareness is what i mean... to be
>conscious of awareness not an object...

That looks, sounds and feels to me as being
a form of an assertion, a definition of sorts.

Semantics perhaps.

Being aware of being aware.
Being conscious of being conscious
is, I would say, to make awareness or
consciousness into a form of an object.

Part of the brain, a mind, a set of neurons,
is aware of a process, a reflection, an echo,
a sub-routine monitoring a sub-routine, itself,
in this case. Objectifying itself, it is an object.

But, if, by definition, you state it is not
then that would be your axiomatic position.

A so-called given, to be taken for granted,
in a paradigm, a tool, to be invoked at times
for whatever purpose one may have in mind.

> so really.. is awareness three?

If a system is set up
such that it isn't, then it isn't, by definition.

It's a word-game. Semantics. A play on words.

> hahaha... and in the end.. can you do it?

Sure. No problem.

> why not?

If not, it would be, perhaps due to an inability
to shift from one frame of reference to another.

To be stuck in one mode or paradigm.

The same can hold true for thinking one is
some sort of boxer, or master, or rabbi, or teacher,
or that others crave power and are not all
but that one is all, that one is God
except that others are not.

Stuff akin to that often happens
within brains at times for sum.

> ah yes,
>because as soon as you relax your defenses enough your mental illness
>start to surface and they play havoc with your reality...

That would explain what you are experiencing, yes.

> do you think
>i can tell the difference?...

I rather doubt it.
You appear to be projecting it onto me.

> can you manifest your will?

I like to think I am moving my fingers
of my own free will.

But such a thought, and such a like,
could be seen, from another pov, through
another frame of reference, or paradigm
as being an illusion.

Why someone would use one pov
instead of another might be interesting
to delve into. Why some cling to free-will
or to having any type of will, could suggest
they are involved in their own ego.

> can you move
>something other than a loser suffering from low self esteem?...

I tend to be unable to do much at all.

Those who have low self esteem
might be beyond my reach.

Probably that would be due,
if I carve the uncarved block as such,
to my own high self esteem.

Not having been low,
they are unable to see or hear me.

Someone else, who has been lower
would be able to resonate better
and help them out of a jam.

> i do
>not use people, power over people, not control people... oddly,
>knowing who i am, this seems to upset them...

I thought you were saying something
about boxing and having power over karma,
lightening or some other stuff.

Maybe there are many personalities
which exhibit themselves as being you.

Have you been diagnosed with anything?

> not telling them what i
>would do.. and if i do..

My impression was that you went on about
those sorts of things at the start, in this post.

Maybe that was a different part of your brain
that is not connected to the part that wrote
the words just above.

One part might deny access
to another part. Could explain parts.
In part if not entirely.

> laike harmon, they get their panties in a
>knot and i say... look man, just saying, we both have a stake here, we
>both have things to lose... do what you want, and what you do? is what
>happens... i do not give a fuck... i really don't.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I did learn a new word yesterday, perseveration.

Sounds like perseverance, but it's different.

It could be severe
as one severs
and is severed
from others
during a conversation.

Interesting, to me, how words form
and may fly in formation
when imparting
forms of information.

>> Plus the 10k.
>> And there may be differences, also,
>> subtracted from equations ore paradigms.
>
>yes, exactly the lesson you do not understand because you are stupid..

You are being a teacher now?
Back in the power seat?

>and then you memorize the answer, not knowing whether it... is true...
>false... meaningless... partly true/ partly false... partly true/
>partly meaningless... partly false/ partly meaning less.. that is the
>language of the illuminati son...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I've heard of the illuminati.

Perhaps a spirit of conspiracy
is in the driver's seat of the brain
when it carves what is uncarved
in such a fashion statement.

> designed to be master for this
>reason... and then throw in your inability to understand... you
>inclination to use the information to set yourself free... from what
>asshole?...

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Maybe this is also a mirror you are looking into.

Perhaps you are seeing yourself
and projecting it onto others.

After all, if God is all, and you are God,
that includes you being everything
as well as everyone.

But, then, in the blink of an eye,
there you are, and you may deny
that you are them, and that they
are out to get you, but you will
get them first, and they will pay
by the power of your will
yet you may say
it is not you, but they
who crave power and stuff
the stuff is stuffed and stuffed full
being that it is not you, except
when it is you, being all, being God.

> i mean let's face it,

Okay. Sure. Why knot.

> the only reason you are here now
>performing for me fool is that you find yourself in a place where all
>those of the past are not rebelling from your tyranny...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

> there is no
>other reason for it.. you ran your temporal distance and now the dream
>is falling in to crush you...

You appear to be referring to someone
but I have no idea who that might be.

>so yes, that is what it says just as i said... 1... 2... 3... 1^1,
>2^2, 3^3... each time you complicate symbol (simple) things by adding
>more symbols (digits or characters)... the whole thing grows
>expodentially... you loss sight of the tao... you do not accept that
>the glitch is false... rather than return to the tao, you apply the
>tao to the glitch and say that it is what is to changed... when you
>change the dharma/truth... karma, then the glitch, so you add another
>symbol, digit, character, word...

Maybe that is what you are doing.
Perhaps you are talking to yourself.

Could be, if you adopted that view,
it may assist you in what prevents you
from doing whatever it is you seem to be
involved in doing when you see others
as being other than yourself.

>> In dreams, consciousness drifts
>> more than during what I'd call an awakened state.
>
>no. in dreams objects arise... do you wake up?...

Normally. To various degrees. Every day.

> and if awareness, in
>life or death is always on and you are always it... and those
>impressions are from something deeper soomething repressed...

Perhaps you are repressing something.

> and if
>it is the material component that stores those latent powers, like a
>spring loaded trigger... adn when that material component is triggered
>by death... like i said you can allow me to help you siphon it off or
>you can take the hit all at once...

Maybe if you turn that on yourself
then you'll be on to something to help
you with what you desire to do.

> trouble is, in your state
>anyway... yuo can not get close enough to me to allow me to do that
>for you... and honestly... i will not let you... there is this pact
>you see...

You sound as if you are fragmented.

Were you abused as a child?

I've heard that a brain will dissociate
when banged around enough.

Just as a kettle boils, perhaps, neurons disconnect
and are unable to reconnect enough to function
on many levels, within society or within
a single body.

>> In deep sleep, normally I'd call that form unconsciousness.
>
>unknown not unconscious. it is where automatic systems operate..

That is what I'd call semantics.

Epistemology can be interesting too.

> it is
>why as a accomplished yogi, you can "hear" the signal from the bladder
>saying i have to pee... you can then "feel" how long it takes for the
>release signal to get back to the bladder... it is why you breathe
>without thinking yuo should...

I am unconscious of breathing most of the day.
Probably 99% of the time.

The heart I call my own beats of its own self.
I might be conscious of it, but knowing how to do it
is beyond the control of my muscular ability.

I do recall going through deep sleep cycles
without losing the thread of consciousness.
Of being aware of dream states in a way.

But, as I wrote, normally,
I'd call sleep an unconscious state.

It may have to do with memory.

And a sub-routine of neurons which
keep track of keeping track of tracks
of impulses along memory circuits
and waves of connnections.

> it is also where things forgotten
>exist... things repressed, things you hide from others, and... my
>favorite fodder... things you hide from your self... and your
>karma...

Perhaps you have a lot of that
going on beneath the surface.

>at least we agree that in sleep, where the object shuts off and since
>your consciousness is that object only... you "think" you are off... i
>assure you however, if you can resist the urge when you fall... you
>will find yourself aware in that dharma... no body and senseless...
>just being, purely... no mind to speak of... and when the mind arises,
>it brings objects... karma yet to be fructified...

You appear to maybe have different meanings
for the terms, consciousness and awareness.

An impression I got
was that one was not an object
given a sort of technical definition, axiomatically.

Now you appear to be saying
consciousness is an object.

Previously, you seemed to be saying
that one could be conscious of awareness
which makes, syntactically, semantically, awareness
an object of the preposition.

Be all that as it may,
what you say sounds okay.

When thinking shuts off,
when the flow of words cease,
when various minds are at peace,
it can be a very rest-full state.

To think in terms of karma
and it being fructified sounds to me
as a type of paradigm being invoked
to explain phenomena.

As far as maps and tools go,
if that works for you, that's great.

Cause-effect, if that's what the word, karma
happens to mean in this context, can be
a powerful paradigm.

Very useful, at times.

>> Semantics might be at play.
>
>really Jew it is all you have left to go on..

I have no idea what you are going on about now.

> desparate i think but...
>you are after all a drowning man...

Perhaps this is a different set of neurons
which have their own agenda on display.

> and anything i throw you looks
>like a preserver...

More akin to a perseveration.

You appear to see me as a drowning man now
but I have no idea why that image arises
in your mind at this time.

You are projecting that onto me.
Perhaps it is yourself you see.

> but like i said, you can not get close enough nor
>will i let you...

Parts of your brain
might not be in communication
with other parts of your brain.

>your delusional mental and frantic state suggests...
>statistically, that you will try to pull me down to save yourself...
>fact...

That could explain what you are doing.

Have you been diagnosed as being delusional?

>> A turning point can be in
>> where it is the unconscious that is conscious.
>
>oh... hahaha... i am sorry i did not give you the answer as to why
>this was funny before... from your own conditons of debate,

I never have figured out
why you return to such a statement.

Perhaps there are several personalities
which take turns during our conversation.

If you think this is a debate
and that there are some conditions
that I have made, then I don't know
what to say to you.

You do appear to me to be delusional.

I keep saying, writing, that in my view
we are having a conversation.

You share.
I share.

Sometimes we can see
what the other is saying.

Often I am unable to see
quite a bit of what you are saying.

You appear to me to rant a bit.

Your thought patterns ramble on,
as do mine, in various ways.

As far as any debate goes,
if that is what you would like to have
then perhaps we can start a new thread.

Call it, "debate" in the subject line.

Cross-post it on in.

And I'll see if I can contribute to it
to whatever degree I am able
as far as that form of play may go.

> since you
>must be joking... a turning point is impossible...

Okay.

>next, your need based on a delusion of hope suggesting deparation,

You are not making sense to me.

>resistence to what is as its forming matrix is contradictory to your
>instinct for survival... a revealing, and as i said a rising of
>objects which frighten you... do you know that most soldiers piss
>their pants with fear before they jump out of the trenches and run to
>the objective?...

I was not aware of that, no.

>odd eh?

I can imagine fear taking hold.

> even hussien... blubbering idiot... of
>course you are much superior to those great examples...

I don't know what you are talking about.

>anyway... consider the tension in the spring? how many years have
>scientists been warning about climate change?...

Quite a few.

>economist about
>collapse? resource managers about non-renewable resources being
>deplete...

Yes.

>last year, we hit the turning point...

I was unaware of that.

> fair is fair... tent years for
>ten years... andthis year more as will next year be worse...

I suppose in many ways it will be.

And in many ways it will be better.

Carving the block might evoke such views.

>and that
>was at my hand as you know

If you say so.

You might now be thinking of yourself
as being God, and of having power
and control over various levels.

> but of course deny

I can accept all people and things
as being forms of the Universe,
and of the Universe as being God,
or the other way around.

Paradigms may arise per dozen.

> since as you know jay...

That would be me, yes.

>if i am and what i say is truth... you are fucked...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

> i mean it, there
>is no coming back from what you have done..

I have no idea what you think I have done.

You are not making sense to me.

> awareness is it, the end
>and the beginning... i do not give a fuck what you think death is, you
>have no experience...

I gave a link to Yukteswar
as related by Yogananda.

That was a form of awareness.

Death, it appears to me, given
as a given, axiomatically, what was
in Yogananda's experience, is
a transition.

Consciousness and awareness persists.

Heavens exist.

That might well be true
for all I know.

> but look at yourself... still moving forward...

I tend to cycle mostly
in terms of ups and downs
and rounds and rounds.

>it is not an option

I'd call it a paradigm.

A map. A tool.

They can be of use, at times.

>and that is what you are frantically trying to
>negotiate out of me... an option... a choice... what is, is... no
>excpetions...

Then that is that, and is,
your paradigm.

>> Akin to the tip of an iceberg.
>
>true.
>
>> All made of water.
>
>and water forms around what to become rain?

Dust maybe.
Stardust, presumably.

> and that minutely fine,
>fine dust in potash... does it not also collect mass outside of the
>object?

I don't know about potash.

I have heard of the Higgs field tho.

>> Waters of Unconsciousness, sew to spin a tale.
>
>sure... sure... tell us a story.. is their a princess? a hero? a
>monster?

Mostly just water.
Some of it under a bridge.

A cool refrain
as far as notes played go.

The troll monkey posted his post
and off we went and here we are
for a spell, for a cycle, to recycle
various words, perhaps with and
perhaps without, much reason.

>> Floating in such a notion, some of it freezes
>> and, while nine-tenths remains beneath a surface,
>> a small portion of the huge Sea may see
>> above the water within
>> the water.
>
>and perhaps as a living thing the universe is alive...

Yes. And knows everything. Is God.

Or, perhaps God created the universe
and the universe is stupid. Just quarks
and leptons and other particles
measured, quantified, meaning nothing.

>the earth, is alive,

Yes. And she knows and cares
for all of her forms of life. As Mother Earth.

Or, perhaps earth is stupid, just dirt,
a ball of molten rock with a crust
of plates that float around.

> that what is contained in the one it can not exceed and thus
>what you are is contained in the seed, the clay, the air you
>breathe.... and that earth level of awareness is millions of years old

Billions even.

>and is in distress...

A view some adopt
or inherit.

> the body is sick and as you will learn from
>rachael, the mind is feverish...

I have no idea who rachael is.

> and so, death to the Jews...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

> back to
>the source... what awaits... more heaven?

Could be. Dreams within dreams.

The Great Cosmic Dream Drama.

You might think you are God
all caught up in your delusions
of grandeur and power and control
and that others are not.

You might know
in some fantastic way
how God is all.

Or, how there are others
and, thus, God is not all.

Much more may await.
Or might not be waiting.

> more stories?

We might exchange words.

Others probably will, shall, might.

> or what it
>is... and it is not happy... and it is not happy with you...

Perhaps.
Or it might be a reflection, a projection.
A form of illusion, or delusion. Maya. Lila.
Plays of Self, as an actor, as actors
who have forgotten it was all a
dream, a play, a stage
for an age.

>> Sleep can be said to have its own functions.
>> Returning to forms of Unconsciousness.
>
>but your awareness is not in awareness... it is consciousness

In this sense, now,
you appear to have switched
from one being an object
to the other being an object
to them both being the same thing.

> and all
>you are conscious of is the body..

When you say, " you "
maybe you are generalizing.

When I think of myself as being a body,
at times I am aware of what I am identifying
myself with, as being.

>a vessel, a great container with
>many hidden rooms... where things lirk, your own things...what you do
>has nothing to do with me.

I don't normally think I have anything to do
with you aside from our conversation here.

Whether you think you have something to do
with me, a debate, or fire from on high, or
some other fantasy, seems to be how
your brain cycles around, at times.

>> I have no idea about what the lesson is.
>> I figured we were sharing thoughts.
>
>in a sense we are. my thoughts and your thoughts... power of will...

You appear to think you have great power.

I'm not concerned with power.
I tend to let the powers that be, be.

If you want to believe you have power

that's okay with me.

I might not understand what you talk about
but that's okay too.

> i
>do understand... your thought has no influence here... why not let me
>go before i get serious...

Are you saying
that you would like to have the last word?

For me not to respond?

If so, please put that at the top of the post.

If you do that, I'll simply not read past it.
And not respond to it. And you may go,
before you get serious.

>> If you are trying to teach me something,
>> if you are assuming or presuming life is a school
>> of some variety or other, that's interesting as well,
>> as far as paradigms go, to me.
>
>sure. life is a school. as for teach you something... it is
>aposteriori for you... you are the lesson...

The lesson of life?

An interesting pov.

I suppose one can be, ore might be,
anything one chooses, if one can choose.

To be a student, a teacher, the pupils
in one's eyes, a course, a lesson,
or some other carving of
an uncarved block.

>> There appear to be several posts awaiting
>> to be read for me this morning.
>
>you are a powerful guru...

Sounds like another projection to me.

I'm an old fart in a bamboo grove
with nothing better to do at the moment
then fart around with another old fart
over in a zen group of some sort.

>> No idea if I'll get to them all
>> at this rate of response.
>
>a powerful lazy guru...

I can identify with being lazy.
You got me there. A lazy fart
that just stinks up the place.

> not at all the qualitiy students seek...

Do you seek students?

><snip>... repetition... please suggest a new way of saying the same
>old thing... without changing the formula...

Silence might be a form of De.

>Lucifer

[Tang Huyen]

On 5/14/2013 10:21 PM, brian mitchell wrote:

> Hear the mercy!
>
> I guess even the Ever-Ready Bunny runs out of
> juice at some point, but can he be re-charged?
> It seems to take a quantity of something...
> energy, luck, spirit, merit, who-knows?... to
> realize. If one has shot one's spiritual bolt
> is that,
> like,
> IT?
>

> [snip]

>
> Telepathic clearing is some powerful medicine
> and I was lucky enough to catch a ride for a
> while with some people who were highly skilled
> at it. It didn't last long. Parts and clues
> scattered all round the world.

I don't know about the return of deed (karman)
across lifetimes, but do observe something about
the return of deed within this lifetime, right
on these boards, and it seems to me that the
worst thing that one can do to oneself is the
contrary of mindfulness, namely blocking
oneself from oneself to hide oneself from
oneself and protect oneself from oneself. Such
a decision can take place early, like in
teenage, or even before that, and once it
takes place, it really sticks, for the rest of
one's life. If one has decided to block oneself
from oneself to hide oneself from oneself and
protect oneself from oneself, one doesn't know
oneself, and since one doesn't know oneself,
there is no way one can reverse one's decision
and come back to know oneself. Whether one is
aware of oneself or one is blocking oneself
from oneself to hide oneself from oneself and
protect oneself from oneself, much of what one
knows is stuff projected by oneself to the
external world, and if one is aware of oneself,
perhaps one can recognise oneself in those
projected bits, but if one blocks oneself from
oneself to hide oneself from oneself and protect
oneself from oneself, one doesn't know oneself
and therefore cannot recognise the projected
bits as bits of oneself, be they alienised or
whatever. In a sense, one has burnt the bridge
to oneself, and there is no way back.

It seems that such a life strategy has been
adopted by a number of posters on these boards,
most of them not being active now. They
perpetually float around (meaning around
themselves), like zombies who don't know who
they are and what they do, and indeed they
don't know who they are and what they do,
voluntarily, from their own choice. Parts and
clues are loosely scattered all round the
world, like disjecta membra that have been
disowned by their owner.

"If one has shot one's spiritual bolt
is that,
like,
IT?"

Yes, it seems to me. It may happen that
somebody in such a predicament can vow to
connect back to himself or herself, no matter
what, but I have not seen any such instance,
surely not on these boards.

"It seems to take a quantity of something...
energy, luck, spirit, merit, who-knows?... to"

reconnect with oneself after saying sayonara
to oneself, especially if one has severed
oneself from oneself half a century ago or so,
but I have not seen any example. People in such
predicament are like Maoists, who dislike
revisionism. They don't like to revisit their
past decisions. They have shot their spiritual
bolt and won't look back.

Tang Huyen