Pet Store Rats vs. Breeders
Meghan
This is the first time I have posted to this newsgroup. I am usually over
at alt.pets.mice, because I have been keeping mice for over a year. I am
thinking of "branching" into rats because I have heard so many great things
about them.
I am doing a lot of research so I can be the best rat-mom possible. I am
finding that the breeders in my area seem to have quite a waiting list. I
have been very tempted with pet store rats. Some in decent, privately owned
pet stores with obviously well-cared for rats, and others, well... the chain
stores.
My experience with mice has been that my first mouse came from Petco,
pregnant. She's a GREAT mouse and quite old too (almost 2!) but her babies
were almost surely inbred, and died before 1 year of horrible tumors (which
cost hundreds of dollars at the vet). I don't mean to sound
money-conscious, but it was an insult to injury to lose my little mice one
by one *and* have to pay hundreds of dollars.
So my question is, if I ended up with two rats from a pet store, am I likely
to encounter the same problem (early death? tumors? etc). Is there any
other consideration for breeder vs. pet store that I'm missing? Mostly I
just want friendly, healthy rats.
I also have a million other questions, but I'll start with this one.
Thanks,
Meghan
J&S Bouchard
"Meghan" <meghan...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:PMNAc.17501$Y3.1...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
adopting your rats.
My pet store experiences are horrible and so I will not encourage you to buy
from a pet store but instead from ethical breeders.
In my opinion, pet store rats are not healthy and are poorly socialized. An
ethical breeder rat will be extremely socialized, have good temperament and
health. Breeders can't always guarantee that there will be no illness or
tumors. Females have a 78% of developing tumors so the odds are stacked
against them. The rats should be healthy when at the breeder's but their
health also will depend on how you care for them. Habitat, environment, diet
and stimulation will all play a factor in your rats health.
Ask away all your questions, we are here to help!!!
--
Joanne
Mom to 12 rats
http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70
j-...@nospamsympatico.ca
remove "no spam"
Jai
of them who had them 10 days after we brought her home. I have nothing to
report as far as health problems go. No probs yet, our two oldest are
probably 8 months or so.
Our local store sells many, many rats so there are always babies to choose
from. We pick them as young as possible and only the ones that will come
over to our hands to investigate instead of running to the corner. (lickers
and kissers are good too!! :) )
I guess I would buy from a breeder but haven't found any in the Wyoming
area.
Jaimie
Mom to Margaret, Radar, Sophie, and new baby Rosie
Grandma to Mary, Baby, Dorie, Alicia, Sniffles, and newest baby, Niblin
"Meghan" <meghan...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Tiger Spot
<meghan...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<PMNAc.17501$Y3.1...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>:
>So my question is, if I ended up with two rats from a pet store, am I likely
>to encounter the same problem (early death? tumors? etc). Is there any
>other consideration for breeder vs. pet store that I'm missing? Mostly I
>just want friendly, healthy rats.
If there are good breeders anywhere near you, go with them even if you
have to wait a while. Pet store rats can be very sweet, very loving
pets, but they are likely to become ill and die fairly young. Even if
the store treats the rats well, they will not be well-bred and will be
quite likely to develop tumors or respiratory illnesses later in life.
I should say that of the eight rats I've ever had, six came from pet
stores (via another person who couldn't keep them anymore, in the case
of the three youngest). My first rat, Io, was purchased in southeast
Texas when I was in middle school. Even if I'd known to look for a
breeder, there probably weren't any there at the time. I don't know
of any there now. She was a great rat, and dealt really well with
being an only rat kept in really inadequate conditions (the
information available to me at the time wasn't very good).
The next two rats, Eris and Metis, were purchased from a breeder.
However, I don't think she was a very good breeder; I was looking for
reasonably well-socialized rats and didn't check into the genetic
history nearly as much as I should have. Eris was healthy most of her
life, but poor Metis had some serious health problems develop when she
was something over a year old. They both passed on at almost exactly
two years of age.
Tyche and Maia came from a pet store because I could not find a
breeder up here, and really wanted to introduce new rats before Metis
died (although Eris only lasted another month after Metis passed away
-- at least by that time I'd found a competent vet). Maia was sweet,
but never really healthy, and she died at about a year old. Tyche's
still with us, at something like a year and a half (since they came
from a pet store and were already reasonably grown, I'm not sure how
old they are/were), but she's not a sociable rat. She hates being
picked up. (This is mostly just her personality, but I think she'd at
least be more relaxed about being held if she'd had more human contact
when she was little.) She's healthy, but intersexed (the vet thinks
-- it's hard to tell without a biopsy).
The three youngest were from a different pet store in this area, via a
woman who couldn't keep them any longer. They were all about three
months old, and I think she'd had them for a little over a month.
Astraea's crazy, Niobe's the most people-oriented rat I've ever seen,
and Ariadne's pretty normal. None of them have had any health
problems yet -- they sneeze occasionally, but every time I think
"Okay, if you're still doing that tomorrow we'll go see the vet" they
stop.
Anyway. If you've got good breeders in your area, go with them,
definitely.
--Theresa
http://tiger_spot.mapache.org
Dave Ryman
news:PMNAc.17501$Y3.1...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
We believe that Reputable rat breeders are the best choice, because your
rats are more likely to be tame and bred from proper lines. If, for
example, a pet shop (or their source of stock) doesn't seperate out the
young (males and females) early enough, it's possible that your new rat's
Mum is the brother of your rats dad: Inbreeding of that nature isn't
usually a healthy thing.
I suspect that one of the easiest ways to tell a good breeder is the
number of rats available and the frequency. I've made enquiries of two
breeders before: One had one litter available at a later date (after
taming), the other had a couple of rats available, and you had to take at
least a pair of same-sex siblings. The other breeders I contacted had no
litters at the time (or planned if I recall). Also, both breeders hit me
with a barrage of questions about the way we look after our rats. I
hasten to add that it wasn't a problem with these questions that meant we
bought from pet shops!
For some bizarre reason though, we have bought all of our rats from pet
shops. The two Rosemary had when we first met (Spot and Stripe) were
great - the petshop owners daughter had played with the whole litter, and
they were as tame as can be.
Later additions included Bing and Bong - two agoutis - but it turned out
that Bing was pregnant! So the pet shop had basically kept the young rats
together far too long - we don't have any males, so daddy was probably a
brother of mummy - we have no idea. Anyway, we ended up with twelve rats
for the price of two. Of the litter of ten, we sold all but two females
to a more reputable pet shop, and kept Triangle and Bindi, who are pretty
tame compared to Bing and Bong because we put the effort in.
The next two to be added to the clan were Scampi and Chips: Scampi had
been bought by someone else (from another pet shop), found to be
pregnant, and sold in a panic to the more reputable pet shop I mentioned
earlier. Chips was one of the resulting daughters. Scampi has a wonderful
temperament, and is a very cuddly rat. Chips, her daughter, however,
still bites to this day (I suspect that she might actually have very poor
sight, so a finger is a confusing thing to her): Chances are that Chip's
dad is also her uncle, and Scampi and Chips are red eyed rats, so I'm
guessing that this inbreeding made sight matters worse.
The last addition is Cleo - very cute, very manic, and very difficult to
catch!
So temperament in pet shop rats seems to be very hit and miss.
--
Regards,
Dave
dave_...@hotmailNOSPAM.com
http://welcome.to/daves.website
http://travel.to/formula.one
Tania
Welcome to the group :o)
I have always brought my ratties from a local store here (but, they do use
the same breeder) I hve never had a 'meanie' rat and they have all had great
personalities and been very sociable. I did rescue my Benny but
unfortunately his previous owners gave him up when he was ill so we didn't
have him very long before he left for The Bridge.
With regards to health, I've had some that have unfortunately only made it
to 13-15 months while some have made it to over 2 years (only just though)
Some people have been v lucky with the ages on their ratties but sadly I
haven't.
I'm sure you will get lots of good advice here :o)
--
Tarn ...............
Neptune, Pluto, Ulysses, Morpheus, Jerry,Smokie & Barney <:3_)~~~
At Rainbow Bridge: Buttons, Patch, Cookie, Fudge, Apollo, Zeus & Ben
<:3_)~~~
http://community.webshots.com/user/tarn75
"Meghan" <meghan...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:PMNAc.17501$Y3.1...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Marian Bennett
to better the species' - no matter how sweet and even-tempered they are or
how loved they are by their owners (and they are not 'gifts of the goddess'
which was one breeder's excuse). Breeding something that lacks something it
should have is just plain wrong and I don't consider a breeder who does such
things morally superior to a pet shop. I remember articles when blue rats
were first being bred about some of them having very exotic tumours, some
which screamed when they were handled and how they shouldn't be bred by
novices because they were difficult and had health problems. What does this
say about breeding for colour instead of health and temperament?
I have had most of my girls from petshops, including Pets At Home who
treated my last two little girls for myco (or something lung-related) for a
week before I was allowed to take them home. They are both fit, healthy and
very cheeky and love being out and being handled. But everyone will tell
you different stories and I suspect that even pet store chains will differ
according to the management and staff and the country they are in.
Always go for the outgoing rat if you can. I will go for the less
attractive ones because I know I can give them a good home with friends who
will bring them out of themselves. I have taken in rescue rats because
no-one else wanted them and older rats who weren't as cute as younger ones.
Ask questions - have a good look around the store and talk to the staff. My
local PAH has staff who have rats of their own and can swop 'ratty' stories.
It seems like a decent place to me - but you have to make up your own mind
about your local stores or breeders.
Good idea to do research first - but beware, rats are very addictive!
Good luck
Marian
"elegy" <el...@shattering.org> wrote in message
news:8kh7d0phki811pnto...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 02:45:03 GMT, "Meghan"
> rats from reputable breeders tend to be healthier and better tempered.
> there is also the issue that they're being bred to better the species,
> not just to make money.
>
> i've had a number of rats from petstores. none of them have been
> particularly unhealthy, and of the ones that i have lost, they've all
> been at least two years of age. (they've all been males. only one- the
> one from petco- developed mammary tumors.)
>
> (the rest of my rats have been from labs and from rescues)
>
> rescue is also an option. there are a number of rat rescues operating
> in the us, and they often have gorgeous well-socialized babies. (there
> is kim's ark in new england, any rat rescue in arizona, and raats in
> north carolina)
>
>
> ---
> blogging for pit bull rescue
> project-blog july 24, 2004.
> http://shattering.org
«. .»
marian....@ntlworld.com wrote on 19/6/04 9:22 pm:
> I don't consider producing hairless and tailless rats means they are 'bred
> to better the species' - no matter how sweet and even-tempered they are or
> how loved they are by their owners (and they are not 'gifts of the goddess'
> which was one breeder's excuse). Breeding something that lacks something it
> should have is just plain wrong and I don't consider a breeder who does such
> things morally superior to a pet shop.
Rest assured, in the UK there are no breeders breeding tailless, and less
than a handful breeding any form of hairless. Having owned a partial
hairless myself, I think the anti-hype is overdone...she was lovely and
lived longer than many of my other haired rats.
What bothers me more is that most UK pet shops get theirs from commercial
breeders, (many will also tell partial truths and say they get them from "a
breeder" but don't quantify that as a commercial enterprise with 10,000
animals churning out hundreds a week, and turning the "unwanted" into frozen
snake food).
If you get a sickly blue rat these days, it will have come from one of these
places, not from a good breeder who has carefully selected against the
original problems the blues had... now greatly improved. The only things the
commercial breeders want to improve are their bank balances.
Sue
----------------------------
pendragon fancy rats
Portsmouth, England, UK
www.pendragonrats.co.uk
First established 1981
Kelly
I have two female rats, one pet store and one from a breeder. First things
first, part of the rat personality is ingrained and genetic. You might get
a rat froma petstore that's very friendly and has an awesome temperment, or
you might get a rat from a breeder that is somewhat skittish (although it
will never be as bad as a skittish rat from the petstore). Going either
route will never guarentee what the personality of your rat will be. I can
tell you a little bit about my rats.
Lucy (the petstore rat) is wonderful. I got her at about 6-8 wks old and
she is now about 8 months old. She is not skittish at all, and will almost
always fall asleep when she is in my shirt outside of the cage. I have been
told I am lucky because Lucy has never had any health problems whatsoever.
She occasionally has a teeny bit of porphyrin on her white fur.... but no
sneezes or any obvious porphyrin. No tumors as of yet.
Silver (the breeder rat) came to me at 5 wks of age. She is rambunctious
and curious... always wanting out of the cage (whereas Lucy will sit back
and wait to be picked up). She will crawl right up your arm to your
shoulder when the cage is opened. Silver is a little bit more skittish when
I have her out, however she is very hyper and it's hard to tell apart these
two characteristics (I find). She's always running around on the go when
outside of the cage, and has only fell asleep (with Lucy in my shirt) once.
Silver is only a few months old now and I haven't had any health problems
with her.
I think it's possible to get great rats from your local petstore, but I
think the risk is higher that you will have health problems or get a very
scared rat. The risk is still always there with breeder rats, but it's
significantly reduced.
Kelly
"Meghan" <meghan...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:PMNAc.17501$Y3.1...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Sara
was Brink (which is now closed)All the rats I got from them have been
friendly and I have not had any problems with them. However now I got
my last two rats from Petco and I discourage buying rats from there.
With my rats I was worried about pregnancy. My first rat I got there
was considered a "fancy rat" and yet she was in the cage with two of
her brothers so when I got her I knew she could be pregnant luckly she
wasn't my second rat came from the "common rat" cage and every albino
one they had was in the cage. So I got the smallest female I could.
However they would not allow me to actually hold her when I got her.
So when I got home and I went to take her out I got bit. Now she
doesn't bite me anymore but I had to train her to trust me before she
got brave enough to allow me to pick her up. I would recommend a
breeder or a store (not a chain one). I learned that the chain store
this case Petco didn't socialize their rats....but Brink which I
believe wasn't a chain store did socialize everyone of their animals
(I saw them socializing with them when I got my first rat)....Breeder
or a nonchain store I believe who give you the best rats.
Sara