Chicken Fist - Food Aggression/Resource Guarding Hoarding & Survival Instinct
The Puppy Wizard
Guarding Hoarding & Survival Instinct
Date: 2001-06-12 08:27:47 PST
Hello People,
When trainers make a big issue out of food
aggression I get confused. Food aggression
is NOT a behavior problem. Food aggression
is NORMAL in any insecure, deprived, or
unsocialized human or animal.
Food aggression is not aggression at all, it's
merely survival instinct. The remedy is a little
security, a full belly, and maybe a little chicken
fist to teach the pup to be gentle with his mouth.
What triggers survival instinct?
Insecurity, deprivation, and fear.
That's the bottom line, People.
The following discussion between nancy and our
Brittish koehler comedien/pseudo trainer ludwig,
will show us WHY our expert trainers respond to
symptoms of behavior just like furry woodslands
creatures, rather than TRAIN the dog.
On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:15:40 -0400, "Nancy
Holmes or Nelson Ruffin"<fmka...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>... recommended the pup be put down for
Let's start by cleaning up our language to avoid
obsfucation. Put down means KILL the dog, just
to make sure we're all on the same page.
> > that and other issues - the dog was not responsive
> > to her and showed her little social interaction,
You're saying a TOTAL STRANGER working with a
new pound dog, with a dubious background, doesn't
want to be friendly with a KILLER who has come by
to select and KILL dogs just like him?
> > was dominant and dog and human aggressive etc.
As would be EXPECTED by any reasonable intelligent
decent human being. The preceeding is about the pound
puppy temperament testing done by our "expert" trainers.
> > What disturbed me was the commentary that nothing
> > could have been done to keep this pup from being food
> > bowl aggressive and nothing could be done to make the
> > dog reliably stop being that way.
That's absurd, of course. It may take a couple of days
of work eliminating the issues of insecurity, social
depriviation, hunger and fear, will obviate food aggression.
That's the bottom line, People. TRUST. RESPECT. SECURITY.
The exact opposite is what sue sternberg and all of our
"expert trainers" who shock, jerk, choke, correct, and
punish dogs, INSTILL in their dogs.
> > What do you trainers think?
I'll bite down hard and count to a million and start again...
> > can you take a 4-8 month old rescue pup of unknown
> > background and teach it to no longer be aggressive
> > around food?
Not without FIRST building a foundation of trust,
partnership, and a sense of security and consistancy.
AND FILL HIS BELLY for a few days first.
Now ludwig starts with a little professional dog trainer type Jig:
> While you pose the question as a very simple task
> (a task that most trainers have done at one point or
> another),
Oh, you mean like Sampson's problem? You remember
Sampson and steve hanson and the kids, don't you?
Huh ludwig? Your pals here told steve to confront
and punish Sampson, and that got him DEAD.
> the aggression you have presented here does not
> sound like a simple case of food bowl aggressiveness.
Of course not lugwig. There's no such thing, as I just explained.
You're talking about a POUND dog. A dog who has NO
SECURITY in his environment, ludwig. A dog who may
have been starved, abused and has NO REASON to trust,
respect, or feel secure about anything, ludwig.
The Thugs testing the dog in this instance are PLANNING
TO KILL them dogs, ludwig. You think the dogs can't tell,
ludwig?
You ever been the victim of a crime of violence
ludwig, or just the perpertrator?
We can often tell when someone intends to do
harm ludwig, even before we assault them or
are assaulted by them, ludwig.
There's more to thoughts than just words, ludwig.
That's HOWE I crucify you bums everytime you
open your pie holes about dog behavior, ludwig.
I know HOWE you koehler trainers THINK, ludwig,
so your words don't stick when you're full of $#!T.
> As you tell it, the food/resource aggressiveness
> sounds more like a symptom/ manifestation of
Of an incompetent, fearful Thug, like most koehler
trainers just like you, ludwig. That's O.K. though ludwig.
That's why I came here, to expose, identify, and
discredit you and your koehler Thug pals.
> deeper rooted problems, not an isolated difficulty
> in an otherwise normal puppy.
Yes, a good excuse to kill the dog because you're afraid, ludwig.
> While I would hardly know whether such problems
> are of genetic origin or that of early socialization,
> the very fact that a sixteen week old puppy would
> show the amount of aggressive behavior it apparently did
O.K. ludwig. Let's stop your Jig for a moment and
make sure we're not misreading you here. You seem
to overlook the dubious past history of the dog. You
hold out the genetic card as that's always a good
reason for our koehler trainers to kill dogs they can't
choke and beat into being SAFE.
Our koehler trainers are extremely safety oriented,
aren't they, ludwig? Our koehler trainers kill dogs
that try to bite them because you're cowards, ludwig.
Isn't that correct, ludwig?
> is cause enough to doubt the efficacy in this
> case of any training to the contrary.
But this is what I wanted to be sure about. Your
choice of words does leave a little slack for a
miserable worm like you to slide through unless
we pin your tail down...
You're saying training WON'T WORK, ludwig? I'm
telling you training won't work for YOU and your
koehler Thug pals, because you don't know anything
about training dogs, ludwig. All our koehler trainers
know is to hurt and intimidate and kill dogs you can't
push around, ludwig.
> The possessiveness/resource aggression, the other
> 'symptoms' - unresponsive and disinterested in social
> interaction,
You mean because the dog is not interested in making
friends with a Thug who is going to torment the dog till
it growls and then our Thug kills him for being frightented
and insecure?
> aggressive towards both dogs and people -
As what we'd expect in a pound environment. Think
prison mentality, think famine, ludwig.
> are not necessarily indicative of any 'permanent problem'.
Oh? Then why kill these dogs based on this defective testing
approach, ludwig? It's amazing to me you can give so much thought
to everything except the important and relevant parts
of the issues here, ludwig.
I think you're a little wishy washy about HURTING
and KILLING dogs to train them, ludwig. In fact, I'd
say you're double talking us again, ludwig.
> I would expect to find those qualities in a problem
> dog of some of the more independent minded breeds,
> a Komondor or maybe even a Chesapeake Bay Retriever,
> but only as an adult.
Are you saying you'd expect "possessiveness/resource
aggression, the other 'symptoms' - unresponsive and
disinterested in social interaction," in those breeds?
I got some news for ya, ludwig. A dog is a dog.
Figure it out.
> Finding those qualities with an apparent intensity
> in a sixteen week old puppy is not normal.
Would that might be because being HOMELESS, ALONE,
HUNGRY, HURT, SCARED, and ABUSED are NOT NORMAL
circumstances to be living under, ludwig?
> And I would not expect such a puppy to react as a
> normal puppy.
EXACTLY, ludwig. And the remedy is not in KILLING the dog.
But you don't give a crap, do you ludwig?
The remedy is in getting the dog into a NORMAL HOME,
where people are trained NOT to jerk and choke and shock
and confine and punish a dog for being a dog, ludwig. A
home where gentle, intelligent people will work with and
properly handle their dog and will train their dog to WANT
to do everything they ask because they've been TAUGHT
by our EXPERT TRAINERS HOWE to handle and train
dogs without the methods you use and teach, i.e. jerk,
choke, shock, beat, and kill the dog, ludwig.
> Ludwig Smith
The problem is NOT the dogs, ludwig. The problem is
the incompetent, vicious BLOWHARDS like you ludwig,
cindy, amy, paulette, richardson, boss, blackman, gingold,
dermer, and our various koehler Thugs who perpetuate the
problem by their ignorance and supreme arrogance.
> Dog FAQS
>http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
Your pal cindy moore who publishes that web site is a
vicious, dog abusing SADIST, ludwig. That's the problem
with you, ludwig. Birds of a feather...
Yours, Jerry.