The "local" superstore
Alex Elliott
that the big, light-up sign on top of the roof had the following written
right underneath "HOME DEPOT":
"<maple leaf icon> Ontario's Home Improvement Superstore! <maple leaf icon>"
Why? Why, why, why??
The whole *point* behind Home Depot is that it's a continent-spanning
behemoth that can supply you with almost anything almost anywhere. The
very reason I was going to Home Depot rather than my little local mom 'n'
pop hardware store was because I wanted a good selection of professional-
quality plumbing supplies (I needed a heavy-duty toilet snake to deal with
the Great Cthulu of all clogs, if that's not Too Much Information),
something that I couldn't find at a little local store. Why not "North
America's Home Improvement Superstore!"? Since what they're pushing is
the best selection in North America, that would kind of sort of make
actual sense, instead of making no sense whatsoever like "Ontario's blah
blah blah" does.
Do they really think that people will be fooled into believing that Home
Depot is a *local* store? And, while it does sometimes seem like
Canadians will show intense brand loyalty to anything with a maple leaf
on it, they can't really think that Canadians are so stupid that they'll
think a company based in Atlanta is Canadian.
Maybe Ontarians are supposed to get a warm, fuzzy feeling from this:
"Aw, look! That big heartless corporation actual cares enough to print
up a special sign just for us. And they even noticed what our national
symbol is! It really touches your heart, eh?"
Fuck that. If you have to be an evil international big box retailer that
heartlessly crushes small family-owned businesses, you should at least be
*proud* to be evil international big box retailer that heartlessly crushes
small family-owned businesses.
Forget that "favorite...superstore" crap. Their motto *should* be
"HOME DEPOT: Only Whiny Granola-Nibblers Shop Anywhere Else"
Alex.
Tim Mefford
Alex Elliott <alex.e...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Last night I went to Home Depot. As we were leaving the store, I noticed
>that the big, light-up sign on top of the roof had the following written
>right underneath "HOME DEPOT":
>
>"<maple leaf icon> Ontario's Home Improvement Superstore! <maple leaf icon>"
>Do they really think that people will be fooled into believing that Home
>Depot is a *local* store?
Maybe their point is that "everybody else, all your neighbors, the
rest of the province, in fact, is climbing on board to give Ma and
Pa corner plumber supply a snaking they won't soon forget, so you
don't need to feel bad or self-conscious about it either. In fact,
come on in and roger away with an implement of your choice-- in good
company!"
Tim
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Imagine now in the Presidential office a man well-meaning but,
it may be, short-sighted and pliable, and under the influence
of so-called `friends' who are greedy and reckless speculators,
and who would not scruple to push him into warlike complications
in order to get great opportunities for profit; or a man of
extreme partisan spirit, who honestly believes the victory of
his party to be necessary for the salvation of the universe,
and may think that a foreign broil would serve the chances of
his party; or a man of uncontrollable combativeness of
temperment which might run away with his sense of responsibility
-and that we shall have such men in the Presidential chair
is by no means unlikely with our loose way of selecting candi-
dates for the Presidency." --Carl Schurz, 100 years ago, psychic.
___Tim_Mefford_______...@aracnet.com___________
Uncle Gargoyle
> Last night I went to Home Depot. As we were leaving the store, I noticed
> that the big, light-up sign on top of the roof had the following written
> right underneath "HOME DEPOT":
>
> "<maple leaf icon> Ontario's Home Improvement Superstore! <maple leaf icon>"
>
> Why? Why, why, why??
So that when I mention that here in Lotusland it says "BC's Home
Improvement Superstore" you won't be too surprised.
Peeve: This kind of verbal smokescreen makes me fucking sick. I
saw a little van today boldly emblazoned "CRD Bylaw Enforcement
Services" (CRD being equivalent to county govt).
"Enforcement Services"? As in the bull services the cow? Excuse
me?
Why not just cut to the chase and say "Bylaw Enforcement"?
Peeve^2: And our fucking buses here. Some bright dimbulb figured
out that the computer driven destination display could be
programmed for multi-screen messages. And thus we have "Sorry I
am"...."Not in Service"..."Sorry I am"..."Not in service"...
instead of just a steady "Not in service".
Crap. The bus sure isn't sorry, the bus driver isn't sorry, the
transit commission isn't sorry, so why the fuck do a cutesy pie
that has the side effect of concealing the *real* message for
slightly over 50% of the time?
Could it be that there are buses reading "Sorry I am"..."flying
to the moon"..."Sorry I am"..."a highjacked bus"..."Sorry I
am"..."controlled by a madman"...usw?
I think it's due to giving women, the touchy-feely sex, positions
of authority.
--
Uncle Gargoyle
G. Paul Ziemba
> [Home Depot, threat or menace]
I had occasion to visit HD just last week, because Searsification
seems to have removed almost all selection for wall-mounted shelving
from OSH. I had high hopes since they abolished that touch-tone
PA system that crashed in on any process of cognition several times
a minute, and I thought it might end up being a pleasant experience.
I was wrong.
The local mega-supermarket recently experimented with self-serve
checkout, with the predictably peevesome result that the average
customer spent vastly more time checking out than with the traditional
clerk. The store management apparently failed to think through how
people might actually _use_ the platform arrangement they installed,
because there is insufficient flat surface at either the "input"
or "output" sides to hold a cart's worth of groceries, meaning that
it was easy for the checkout process to deadlock unless the customer
commandeered a second shopping cart to hold the scanned items before
the original cart was emptied.
I am also given to understand, from a friend in the credit card
business, that rates of theft with this self-serve approach increase
so significantly that they overwhelm any cost savings of replacing
clerks with machines.
Yet, despite this obvious customer inconvenience and (now known in the
industry) negative financial consequence, what to my wondering eyes
should appear at the local HD? Yep, self-checkout. What was worse,
they seemed to have a near scorched-earth policy: only one checkout
clerk was on duty (with a line stretching up the adjacent aisle).
The experienced HD observers among you may recall that in a typical
checkout line people have not only light bulbs, garden hoses, and
weed killer, but also really big things, such as 4x8 sheets of plywood,
bathtubs, and Bobcat skid steer loaders. It's clear that the management
at HD must have just used the default template in M$-self-checkout-planner,
because the four self-checkout stands were arranged in the identical
configuration I had seen earlier at the supermarket (two fore, two aft),
with the _same spacing_. Trying to maneuver through there was like
driving the Queen Mary through the streets of any generic medieval city.
If only I could do my hardware shopping over the internet.
--
G. Paul Ziemba paul+us...@w6yx.stanford.edu
FreeBSD unix:
11:06PM up 14 days, 54 mins, 12 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
William Blair Haworth Jr.
>> [Home Depot, threat or menace]
>[menace...]
>If only I could do my hardware shopping over the internet.
www.mcmaster.com. If they sold groceries, it might never be necessary to
leave the house.
--Blair
Angus McIntyre
totototo...@mail.pacificcoast.invalid (Uncle Gargoyle) wrote:
> Peeve^2: And our fucking buses here. Some bright dimbulb figured
> out that the computer driven destination display could be
> programmed for multi-screen messages. And thus we have "Sorry I
> am"...."Not in Service"..."Sorry I am"..."Not in service"...
> instead of just a steady "Not in service".
Sounds like a bad idea, not least because seeing just the "Sorry I am"
message on its own would probably give onlookers the unnerving
impression that the bus was being driven by Yoda.
!Peeve: "Not in service" signs in other languages. When I lived in
Belgium, I always wanted to visit "Voorbehouden" and "Niet Instappen",
places that I could never find on a map but which seemed to have a lot
of public transport serving them. In much the same way, when I travelled
by train in Italy, I was amazed at the number of little villages that
seemed to be called "Vietato attraversare i binari".
Angus
--
"I am here by the will of the people ... and I *will* ["Metrophage",
not leave until I get my raincoat back." Richard Kadrey]
Stevet Thompson
> On 27 Mar 2003 16:29:16 -0500, Alex Elliott wrote:
> > Why? Why, why, why??
>
> So that when I mention that here in Lotusland it says "BC's Home
> Improvement Superstore" you won't be too surprised.
From Alex's article we could expect peevers from other provinces to
chime in, to be sure.
> Peeve: This kind of verbal smokescreen makes me fucking sick. I
> saw a little van today boldly emblazoned "CRD Bylaw Enforcement
> Services" (CRD being equivalent to county govt).
It's all a part of the dumbing down of America, don't you know? I
think it has something to do with establishing and preserving the
self-esteem of individuals who would otherwise be too fucking stupid
to handle the harsh realities of a life and society that fails
miserably to resemble a cute, fuzzy teddy-bear.
> "Enforcement Services"? As in the bull services the cow? Excuse
> me?
>
> Why not just cut to the chase and say "Bylaw Enforcement"?
Because that would not serve to inspire confidence in the populace.
> Peeve^2: And our fucking buses here. Some bright dimbulb figured
> out that the computer driven destination display could be
> programmed for multi-screen messages. And thus we have "Sorry I
> am"...."Not in Service"..."Sorry I am"..."Not in service"...
> instead of just a steady "Not in service".
Why don't they make the pixel-boards larger, or the type smaller?
> Crap. The bus sure isn't sorry, the bus driver isn't sorry, the
> transit commission isn't sorry, so why the fuck do a cutesy pie
> that has the side effect of concealing the *real* message for
> slightly over 50% of the time?
> Could it be that there are buses reading "Sorry I am"..."flying
> to the moon"..."Sorry I am"..."a highjacked bus"..."Sorry I
> am"..."controlled by a madman"...usw?
"Sorry, I was pro...grammed by a lackwit" "Sorry, my
short-term...memory sucks"
> I think it's due to giving women, the touchy-feely sex, positions
> of authority.
Without a doubt.
Regards,
Steve
Le Grande Raoul
>
> Peeve: This kind of verbal smokescreen makes me fucking sick. I
> saw a little van today boldly emblazoned "CRD Bylaw Enforcement
> Services" (CRD being equivalent to county govt).
>
> "Enforcement Services"? As in the bull services the cow? Excuse
> me?
>
> Why not just cut to the chase and say "Bylaw Enforcement"?
Or how a-boot: "Niggling Bureaucratic Bullshit Police"?
Le Grande Raoul
<bhaw...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
Blech. Are we not men? Not wanting to actually visit a hardware store?
You, sir, ar a poofter.
Online groceries was tried. And failed. Bigtime. Too much
infrastructure (trucks, warehouses, etc.) needed at this time to make a
profit.
I think a reason why online sales doesn't take over is that shopping
provides a socializing experience. As much as some people hate it,
going out and dealing with other humans is something that we inherently
need and desire as social beings.
raoul
Lurker at Large
> Could it be that there are buses reading "Sorry I am"..."flying
> to the moon"..."Sorry I am"..."a highjacked bus"..."Sorry I
> am"..."controlled by a madman"...usw?
>
> I think it's due to giving women, the touchy-feely sex, positions
> of authority.
Heh. Not in my case. I frequently bemoan the lack of an additional
button on Microsoft's Clippy and "do you want to check for updates?" and other
such unsolicited pop-up boxes. The special button would, of course, state
quite clearly "Fuck off and die" in large friendly letters.
Heck, it might be even better if the button was persistent, only
closing the window after some random number of clicks, and sent the same
message down through my internet connection to Bill Gates. I can picture
myself orgasmically clicking it over and over...
I also enjoy the idea of answering the phone with this greeting:
"WHAT!?" I don't often get to indulge that one, but I'm pretty sure I have
done it once or twice.
--
- Sharon, lurker at Large
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jcwoman
Alex Elliott
Hey, it's still going strong in Toronto:
www.grocerygateway.com
I think it's succeeded here for two reasons:
1. Population density is high (so trucks don't have to go far), but
Toronto did not already have the everyone-already-delivers ethic
that was present in places like New York City (where corner grocers
have been doing home delivery for decades).
2. They include booze on the list of stuff they deliver. For all I
know, they make all their real profit on alcohol deliveries.
>I think a reason why online sales doesn't take over is that shopping
>provides a socializing experience. As much as some people hate it,
>going out and dealing with other humans is something that we inherently
>need and desire as social beings.
Unless you're a slobbery drunk, in which case you just want your rotgut,
*now!* without the inconvenience of putting on pants.
Alex.
Steve Daniels
<ra...@olympus.net> wrote:
>I think a reason why online sales doesn't take over is that shopping
>provides a socializing experience.
The next time I'm unable to get down an aisle at the grocery store
because two women (who probably live next door to each other) are
standing there gossiping about their kids, their church club, the
state of their menstrual cycle, or whatever else it is women go on and
on about, I'll remember that I'm not there for the food, I'm there for
the company.
Alex Elliott
Angus McIntyre <an...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>!Peeve: "Not in service" signs in other languages. When I lived in
>Belgium, I always wanted to visit "Voorbehouden" and "Niet Instappen",
>places that I could never find on a map but which seemed to have a lot
>of public transport serving them. In much the same way, when I travelled
>by train in Italy, I was amazed at the number of little villages that
>seemed to be called "Vietato attraversare i binari".
There's an old joke about the American tourists visiting Munich who
check into their hotel, carefully write down the name of the street
where it's located, wander all over the city, and finally jump into
a cab that evening and ask to go to (squinting carefully at their
piece of paper) "Eingangstrasse"[*].
Alex.
[*] One-way street
Ayse Sercan
>infrastructure (trucks, warehouses, etc.) needed at this time to make a
>profit.
In the Bay Area, the big local supermarkets have successfully started and
maintained online grocery stores for some time now. The problem Webvan
had was that they had to build all the infrastructure from scratch.
Safeway and Albertson's already have a bunch of distributed warehouses,
namely their stores.
Also, Webvan was run by fuckheads, according to a friend who worked there.
>I think a reason why online sales doesn't take over is that shopping
>provides a socializing experience. As much as some people hate it,
>going out and dealing with other humans is something that we inherently
>need and desire as social beings.
If I could do online grocery shopping and not have to interact with the
delivery guy, I would do it. But as it is, shopping in person tends to
involve less human interaction, so I do it that way.
--
ay...@idiom.com
"Anyone who willingly engages in a battle of wits
with a fish is at best evenly matched." -- Pete Young
Steve Daniels
<Real Hardware Store Foo>
>If they don't have an adz, you should leave
I'd amend that somewhat. If they don't have an adz, but they know
what one is and can have one for you in a week, they're still ok.
Anton Sherwood
> The next time I'm unable to get down an aisle at the grocery store
> because two women (who probably live next door to each other) are
Gee, I never see that. Do you live in a small town?
In my experience it takes only one to block an aisle. Park your cart on
one side, and stand on the other side while you inspect the opposite
shelves. (It helps if there's already an obstruction - a promotional
display, a forgotten stepladder, a stack of boxes of bags of tortilla
chips waiting to be shelved; but this is not strictly necessary.) Once
you've found the perfect bottle of Oriental-Style Seasoning, turn your
cart around to resume shopping elsewhere, and then remember something
else you need in the opposite direction.
Sometimes I'd swear I'm the only pedestrian in two counties whose mama
didn't raise him to be no bollard.
--
Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/
Anton Sherwood
> !Peeve: "Not in service" signs in other languages. When I lived in
> Belgium, I always wanted to visit "Voorbehouden" and "Niet Instappen",
> places that I could never find on a map but which seemed to have a lot
I once had a pocket knife made in Rostfrei, Switzerland.
(?Peeve: kids getting suspended from school, &c, for possession of
something that kinda sorta looks vaguely like a weapon. On one hand -
well, spot it. On the other, you gotta smile when statist control
junkies go out of their way to make themselves ridiculous and don't
actually kill anyone in the process.)
Dad knew a couple who visited Bulgaria and chanced to find an excellent
restaurant named PECTOPAH. Elsewhere they spotted another PECTOPAH and
reckoned it must be a chain, but the second one wasn't remotely as good
as the first.
Anton Sherwood
> Do they really think that people will be fooled into believing
Some few years ago San Francisco got its own Old Navy store. Seems like
it was a year from when the signs went up to when it finally opened, and
during most of that year it touted itself as "Where the Locals Shop!"
Eventually, I guess it must have dawned on some Old Admiral that the
humor of the slogan was getting stale, and the store did open; and one
spring day I penetrated its vastness to look for a lightweight jacket.
(SF can get pretty nippy when the wind is off the ocean, in case ya
didn't know.) Captain Peacock, in no mood for tomfoolery, coolly
advised me that *summer* was coming, the store was filled with *summer*
merchandise, and if I wanted a *cold* weather garment I might try
looking in the *autumn*. I thought (but alas did not say) "You're not
from around here, are you?"
Old Navy: Where the Locals Shop
Unless they Require Goods Suited to Local Conditions.
Uncle Gargoyle
> ...establishing and preserving the self-esteem of individuals...
Fuck self-esteem. As far as I can tell, the poor dear criminal
types who suffer from "low self-esteem" are actually far too full
of themselves to ever think of anyone else. What they need is a
big dose of humility.
I have a "friend" here who went through a long, messy breakup
with his wife, culminating in divorce and loss of everything he
owned except the clothes on his back. He's tried to blame this
catastrophe on all sorts of external factors, including "low
self-esteem", and has attended shrinks who have at times pumped
him full of psychobabble. But when you listen to his account
"what I did", it's inarguable that his fate was entirely his own
doing. I don't know if the best cure for him would be one of the
more stringently flagellant religions or adoption by a relentless
dominatrix to teach him new depths of meaning to the phrase
"yesm'm!"
And then we get into the soft-centred idea that you can't tell a
kid he fucked up. Might damage his self-esteem, poor delicate
little sproglet, but never mind that in consequence he never
learns to pull his own weight and take other people into account.
Remind me to stay off vehicles and bridges designed by people who
never had their self-esteem challenged.
--
Uncle Gargoyle
Robert Sneddon
<bro...@pobox.com> writes
>Angus McIntyre wrote:
>> !Peeve: "Not in service" signs in other languages. When I lived in
>> Belgium, I always wanted to visit "Voorbehouden" and "Niet Instappen",
>> places that I could never find on a map but which seemed to have a lot
>> of public transport serving them. . . .
>
>I once had a pocket knife made in Rostfrei, Switzerland.
Ah, good old Rostfrei, whose name with shame shall ne'er be stained. I
knew a girl who came from Rostfrei, a chilled-steel bitch at her core
but curiously soft at the edges.
In Amsterdam I was surprised by the number of boats and barges on the
canals that were named "Te Koop".
--
Robert Sneddon nojay (at) nojay (dot) fsnet (dot) co (dot) uk
Jesper Lauridsen
>There's an old joke about the American tourists visiting Munich who
>check into their hotel, carefully write down the name of the street
>where it's located, wander all over the city, and finally jump into
>a cab that evening and ask to go to (squinting carefully at their
>piece of paper) "Eingangstrasse"[*].
Einbahnstrasse.
!Ob!Peeve: Finding the right tool for a long overdue cleaning job.
Bod
Large) wrote:
>In article <3e83a3cf....@news.newsguy.com>, totototo...@mail.pacificcoast.invalid (Uncle Gargoyle) writes:
>> Could it be that there are buses reading "Sorry I am"..."flying
>> to the moon"..."Sorry I am"..."a highjacked bus"..."Sorry I
>> am"..."controlled by a madman"...usw?
>>
>> I think it's due to giving women, the touchy-feely sex, positions
>> of authority.
>
> Heh. Not in my case. I frequently bemoan the lack of an additional
>button on Microsoft's Clippy and "do you want to check for updates?" and other
>such unsolicited pop-up boxes. The special button would, of course, state
>quite clearly "Fuck off and die" in large friendly letters.
I know many people whose standard password for things and
passwords that really don't need a password is "FUCKOFF". Or
"FUCK0FF" if they demand numerics.
--
Bod
b...@erstwhile.demon.co.uk
"I have so much to do that I am going to bed" -- fortune cookie
G. Paul Ziemba
>Blech. Are we not men? Not wanting to actually visit a hardware store?
>You, sir, ar a poofter.
>I think a reason why online sales doesn't take over is that shopping
>provides a socializing experience. As much as some people hate it,
>going out and dealing with other humans is something that we inherently
>need and desire as social beings.
I can't speak for BH, but I'd love to actually visit a hardware
store. The only problem is that real hardware stores (at least in
my neck of the woods) have been borged out of existence. My original
complaint upthread was that HD has now combined the worst aspects
of internet shopping with the worst aspects of in-person shopping.
My driving across town to a warehouse so I can struggle to interact
with a checkout computer doesn't qualify as a "socializing experience".
--
G. Paul Ziemba paul+us...@w6yx.stanford.edu
FreeBSD unix:
10:21PM up 15 days, 9 mins, 12 users, load averages: 0.02, 0.02, 0.00
Le Grande Raoul
Ziemba <paul+...@w6yx.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Le Grande Raoul <ra...@olympus.net> writes (to bhaw...@acpub.duke.edu?):
>
> >Blech. Are we not men? Not wanting to actually visit a hardware store?
> >You, sir, ar a poofter.
>
> >I think a reason why online sales doesn't take over is that shopping
> >provides a socializing experience. As much as some people hate it,
> >going out and dealing with other humans is something that we inherently
> >need and desire as social beings.
>
>
> I can't speak for BH, but I'd love to actually visit a hardware
> store. The only problem is that real hardware stores (at least in
> my neck of the woods) have been borged out of existence. My original
> complaint upthread was that HD has now combined the worst aspects
> of internet shopping with the worst aspects of in-person shopping.
>
> My driving across town to a warehouse so I can struggle to interact
> with a checkout computer doesn't qualify as a "socializing experience".
Granted, looking at it after a few days and comments, the term
"socializing experience' seems a little 'new-agey' and an examp[le of
NewSpeak.
However, as a general term, I think it stands. Maybe it's more of a
reflection of me and my own life but I actually like to talk to workers
in the grocery store, the hardware store and, yes, even the people
working in a big-box like Home Depot. I don't wake up in the morning
thinking, "Wow! Today I get to go down to Home Depot and talk to the
workers and, incidentally, get a few nails and a paintbrush." No, I
like to go down and look through things and, when I have a question,
being able to get a good answer from a clerk who is really trying to do
her job. Even if the question is, "Where are the 1.5" varnish brushes
with natural bristle?" and the person doesn't know much about varnish
brushes but actively helps me find what I need, I like the interaction.
Could be just my personal experience.
!Peeve: McLendon's Hardware. A chain of about six local hardware
stores in the general Seattle/Renton/Kent area of Washington State.
Twenty years ago, there was just one McLendon's Hardware in Renton. It
was the classic old-time hardware store that really did have
everything. It was always located in a huge building and Old Man
McLendon sat on a stool behind a counter and presided over the entire
scene. The place burned down but the younger members of the family
quickly got together and rebuilt the place, big and better. As a matter
of fact, the younger members of the family didn't mind the fire too
much because it got rid of a lot of old crap that the Old Man wouldn't
clear out. They were able to put in an inventory system that was just
more than what was in the back of the Old Man's head. Joe Bob says
check it out.
raoul
Le Grande Raoul
<sdan...@gorge.net> wrote:
That wasn't my point, Steve. You *are* there for the food. However, I
think people shrivel up when they don't interact with other people. I
think we all need personal interaction even if it is just about the
weather. Also, if you shop in the same places over and over again, you
can learn who to ask and who not to ask about the things you need.
Peeve: When grocery stores move things around for no apparent reason.
I only shop at the Safeway near my house about three times a month (I
use a smaller grocery store right next to my house for most things) and
it seem that every time I go in ther, the mamgement has rearranged the
layout of the shelves so I have to go looking for things.
raoul
Nathan Nagel
Heh, in college my password for quite a few things, IIRC, was "FuckOff"
:)
nate
...and here I thought I was being all original.
William Blair Haworth Jr.
><bhaw...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
>> In article <b60sek$1cu8$1...@hairball.treehouse.napa.ca.us>,
>> G. Paul Ziemba <paul+...@w6yx.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> >ell...@panix.com (Alex Elliott) writes:
>> >> [Home Depot, threat or menace]
>> >[menace.]
>> >If only I could do my hardware shopping over the internet.
>> www.mcmaster.com. If they sold groceries, it might never be necessary to
>> leave the house.
>Blech. Are we not men? Not wanting to actually visit a hardware store?
>You, sir, are a poofter.
Naw, I just live East of Dupont.
>Online groceries was tried. And failed. Bigtime. [...]
I'd tell the driver of the Peapod van under my window that, but he looks
busy.
You seem to be indulging in _argumentum ad subdivisium_, and some of us
are carless urban denizens. As it happens, a perfectly nice hardware
store just opened up a couple blocks away - doubtless despite the best
efforts of the District of Columbia's formidable array of enterprise-
crushing inspectorates and neighborhood buttinskies - and nobody's happier
about it than me. But if the choice is between a box store and
McMaster-Carr, I'm very pleased indeed to let them do the heavy lifting.
>I think a reason why online sales doesn't take over is that shopping
>provides a socializing experience.[...]
That's hippie talk, podner. Even if it wasn't, if you live in the city,
you get all the socializing experiences you need, to put it charitably.
--Blair
Le Grande Raoul
>
> >Blech. Are we not men? Not wanting to actually visit a hardware store?
> >You, sir, are a poofter.
>
> Naw, I just live East of Dupont.
>
> >Online groceries was tried. And failed. Bigtime. [...]
>
> I'd tell the driver of the Peapod van under my window that, but he looks
> busy.
Yeah, Ayse has already refuted that statement so that goes down as a
cockup on my part.
>
> You seem to be indulging in _argumentum ad subdivisium_, and some of us
> are carless urban denizens. As it happens, a perfectly nice hardware
> store just opened up a couple blocks away - doubtless despite the best
> efforts of the District of Columbia's formidable array of enterprise-
> crushing inspectorates and neighborhood buttinskies - and nobody's happier
> about it than me. But if the choice is between a box store and
> McMaster-Carr, I'm very pleased indeed to let them do the heavy lifting.
Actually, I live in a small town. We have a very good hardware store
and, up until last year, had three of them. the other two guys retired
and closed the business.
>
> >I think a reason why online sales doesn't take over is that shopping
> >provides a socializing experience.[...]
>
> That's hippie talk, podner. Even if it wasn't, if you live in the city,
> you get all the socializing experiences you need, to put it charitably.
You are a sample size of one. Perhaps 'daily or weekly ritual' would be
more to your liking. Going out and shopping and seeing other people is
part of the ebb and flow of daily life. Humans need social interaction.
that's why I believe that online shopping will never take over
completely.
raoul
>
> --Blair
Angus McIntyre
Nathan Nagel <njn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Bod wrote:
> > I know many people whose standard password for things and
> > passwords that really don't need a password is "FUCKOFF".
My own default is equally - or rather more - profane, but a little more
obscure.
> Heh, in college my password for quite a few things, IIRC, was "FuckOff"
> ...and here I thought I was being all original.
When the Robert Morris Internet worm - one of the first worms to
generate widespread attention - was dissected, it was found to include a
long list of 'standard' passwords which it was programmed to try against
the accounts that it was trying to break. The fact that it spread widely
suggests that this list may have constituted a set of fairly good
guesses.
The list is online at:
http://www.ee.ryerson.ca:8080/~elf/hack/iworm.html
but doesn't seem to include 'fuckoff' or variants thereon. I also
thought I remembered it as containing more Tolkien references.
You can be pretty sure that any current scripts, script kiddies for the
use of, that actually need to try password-cracking (as opposed to just
exploiting the Microsoft hole du jour) have been updated to include
'fuckoff'.
Angus "Beware of dolphins bearing SQUIDs" McIntyre
Stevet Thompson
It may be that you give good product, and some of your consumers may
even concur, but as far as I am concerned, you don't have an ounce of
credibility.
Regards,
Steve
Magenta Sky
>And then we get into the soft-centred idea that you can't tell a
>kid he fucked up. Might damage his self-esteem, poor delicate
>little sproglet, but never mind that in consequence he never
>learns to pull his own weight and take other people into account.
Self esteem is something someone gives you. Self respect is something you
earn. They are mutually exclusive. I leave it to you to decide which is of
more value.
>
>Remind me to stay off vehicles and bridges designed by people who
>never had their self-esteem challenged.
Amen.
Magenta Sky
>You are a sample size of one. Perhaps 'daily or weekly ritual' would be
>more to your liking. Going out and shopping and seeing other people is
>part of the ebb and flow of daily life. Humans need social interaction.
>that's why I believe that online shopping will never take over
>completely.
>
Online shopping will never take over completely because there are broad
categories of merchandise that the average person simply cannot buy without
seeing it, holding it in their hands, and comparing it to what they are
replacing. Plus, online businesses are inherently incapable of providing any
kind of service. Hardware stores, for example, fit both criteria. Need to
replace a door lock? The average person has no idea what they need to know
to buy a lock. So they take it to the hardware store, and compare it to the
ones on the shelf, and ask the drone if it's the right one. No web page is
capable of providing that kind of service.
Stevet Thompson
[socializing experiences: threat or menace]
> However, as a general term, I think it stands. Maybe it's more of a
> reflection of me and my own life but I actually like to talk to workers
> in the grocery store, the hardware store and, yes, even the people
> working in a big-box like Home Depot.
And why wouldn't anyone?
> I don't wake up in the morning
> thinking, "Wow! Today I get to go down to Home Depot and talk to the
> workers and, incidentally, get a few nails and a paintbrush." No, I
> like to go down and look through things and, when I have a question,
> being able to get a good answer from a clerk who is really trying to do
> her job. Even if the question is, "Where are the 1.5" varnish brushes
> with natural bristle?" and the person doesn't know much about varnish
> brushes but actively helps me find what I need, I like the interaction.
That is essentially what I think on the mornings of my once-monthly
visit to the RCMP plant posing as a parole clerk at the local branch
of the Ministry of Public Safety. Last week, however, there was a
stand-in for the stand-in. Since I was uncomfortable with the break
in routine, and disappointed by virtue of being unable to continue
discussing matters with my usual potted friend, I may have been a
trifle harsh.
Be that as it may, the blond-what's-her-name seemed to take my ire in
stride; demonstrating admirable professionalism throughout the
interview. I will be sure to return given that I consistently receive
such good service, even if their products are not always entirely to
my liking.
> Could be just my personal experience.
Milage does of course vary.
> !Peeve: McLendon's Hardware. A chain of about six local hardware
Six?!
> stores in the general Seattle/Renton/Kent area of Washington State.
> Twenty years ago, there was just one McLendon's Hardware in Renton. It
Twenty!?
> was the classic old-time hardware store that really did have
> everything. It was always located in a huge building and Old Man
> McLendon sat on a stool behind a counter and presided over the entire
> scene. The place burned down but the younger members of the family
How terrible.
> quickly got together and rebuilt the place, big and better.
But at least some good eventually came of it.
> As a matter
> of fact, the younger members of the family didn't mind the fire too
> much because it got rid of a lot of old crap that the Old Man wouldn't
> clear out.
They should have just convinced the old man to have a sale instead.
> They were able to put in an inventory system that was just
> more than what was in the back of the Old Man's head. Joe Bob says
> check it out.
I'll keep it in mind the next time I'm in Washinton State, or nearby.
Regards,
Steve
Stevet Thompson
> Peeve: When grocery stores move things around for no apparent reason.
> I only shop at the Safeway near my house about three times a month (I
> use a smaller grocery store right next to my house for most things) and
> it seem that every time I go in ther, the mamgement has rearranged the
> layout of the shelves so I have to go looking for things.
There was a discussion somewhat recently, perhaps in this very group,
concerning the strategies used by grocery stores to entice buyers into
spending their money on high-profit-margin items that they would not
otherwise need. Relining the shelves is one such method. Plus, it
keeps the look of the store fresh and might even occasionally expose
one to items of value that one might not normally see.
My shopping habits are such that I generally make sure I know what I
want before I leave the house; and having no taste for junk-food, I am
rarely tempted by the advertising to the point of wasting money on
trifles.
Regards,
Steve
E Varden
.
.
.
.
>
> I think a reason why online sales doesn't take over is that shopping
> going out and dealing with other humans is something that we inherently
> need and desire as social beings.
>
!Peeve. Let me recommend Weiner's Home Hardware on Bloor St in
Toronto. Won an award as the "best" HDWE in Canada. There's
nothing the staff don't know -- especially with their easy-going
intermesh with each other. They welcome my dog when I shop, even
offer her an organic doggie-treat (with my permission) as the items
are being scanned at bill-time.
It's like Litle House on the Prarie fer crissakes! With lasers.
What these people don't stock that BlockStores may have, I'll order
from them and support their intimate contact with me, the consumer.
Plus they like my dog.
Pe
Jim Paradis
> I know many people whose standard password for things and
> passwords that really don't need a password is "FUCKOFF". Or
> "FUCK0FF" if they demand numerics.
Then there's the (likely apocryphal) tale of the BOFH who was
downsized/laid off/shitcanned/what-have-you. When his
soon-to-be-ex boss asked him what the root password was, he
shouted "FUCKOFF", turned on his heel, and left.
It didn't occur to said PHB that the BOFH's utterance might
have been more than a simple expletive, and they spent
considerable unnecessary effort effectively picking a lock
for which the key literally hung in the air...
--jim
Brian Trosko
> Angus "Beware of dolphins bearing SQUIDs" McIntyre
What, another one went AWOL?
G. Paul Ziemba
>Online shopping will never take over completely because there are broad
>categories of merchandise that the average person simply cannot buy without
>seeing it, holding it in their hands, and comparing it to what they are
>replacing. Plus, online businesses are inherently incapable of providing any
>kind of service. Hardware stores, for example, fit both criteria. Need to
>replace a door lock? The average person has no idea what they need to know
>to buy a lock. So they take it to the hardware store, and compare it to the
>ones on the shelf, and ask the drone if it's the right one. No web page is
>capable of providing that kind of service.
It's funny you should mention door locks. I visited four local hardware
stores, one of which is known for its doorknob, lock, and handle selection,
in search of a standard size privacy knob with brass on one side and
chrome on the other. None of them had such a knob.
Eventually I resorted to the internet out of necessity (thank you,
www.kwiklocks.com)
I understand your point about getting help and matching old parts,
etc., and I would patronize a hardware store that provided that
kind of service. However, in my experience, intelligent help is a
dying breed. I haven't been able to get knowledgeable assistance
at the local places in ages.
I suspect that the hardware chains in particular actually have an
incentive _not_ to hire experienced help, because then customers
would buy only what they need. With poor help, customers end up
buying a bunch of stuff that doesn't work out and either accumulates
in the shed/garage or gets pitched. Many busy working folk aren't
going to take the extra time to return five or ten dollars worth
of parts that weren't correct for the job, especially after they
have opened the packages.
--
G. Paul Ziemba paul+us...@w6yx.stanford.edu
FreeBSD unix:
9:41PM up 15 days, 23:29, 12 users, load averages: 0.04, 0.01, 0.00
Angus McIntyre
Brian Trosko <btr...@panix.com> wrote:
No, no, it was a nerdy reference to the problem of guessing passwords.
http://project.cyberpunk.ru/lib/johnny_mnemonic/
for more information.
As to the missing US servicemammal, it's easy enough to explain. The
critter is apparently an "Atlantic bottle-nosed dolphin". I don't need
to remind you that the US isn't the only country with an Atlantic coast.
Clearly Takoma, who passed for years as a loyal US subject, is actually
a French citizen. We can expect to see him turn up in Paris in a few
days time, squeaking out against the US-led war in Iraq and being fed
mackerel by Jacques Chirac.
Angus "Never trust an animal that grins all
the time; they're up to something." McIntyre
Adrian Smith
> I am rarely tempted by the advertising
> to the point of wasting money on trifles.
If they have enough sherry (or in extreme cases, brandy) trifles are
by no means a waste of money.
--
Adrian Smith
Stevet Thompson
Ig you're going to get serious about it and all... If one really
wanted good trifiles as above, wouldn't it be best to make them from
scratch?
Regards,
Steve
Alan Gore
>... In much the same way, when I travelled
>by train in Italy, I was amazed at the number of little villages that
>seemed to be called "Vietato attraversare i binari".
And don't forget the ever-popular director of Italian railways, E.
Pericoloso Sporgerse.
ag...@qwest.net | "Giving money and power to the government
Alan Gore | is like giving whiskey and car keys
Software For PC's, Inc. | to teenaged boys" - P. J. O'Rourke
http://www.alangore.com
ML Carle
>
>
> I understand your point about getting help and matching old parts,
> etc., and I would patronize a hardware store that provided that
> kind of service. However, in my experience, intelligent help is a
> dying breed. I haven't been able to get knowledgeable assistance
> at the local places in ages.
>
> I suspect that the hardware chains in particular actually have an
> incentive _not_ to hire experienced help, because then customers
> would buy only what they need. With poor help, customers end up
> buying a bunch of stuff that doesn't work out and either accumulates
> in the shed/garage or gets pitched. Many busy working folk aren't
> going to take the extra time to return five or ten dollars worth
> of parts that weren't correct for the job, especially after they
> have opened the packages.
Possibly. I worked with a guy who had to get a
second job to get caught up on child support. He
got hired by Home Depot. He's a fully qualified
electrician. They put him to work in the garden
dept.
I've also overheard a fair amount of wrong,
incomplete, or just not the best advice given out
by the help at big boxes. But then, what should
these people expect when, for example, they ask
some 19 year-old bimbo who's never used one in her
life, what kind of cordless drill to buy?
E Varden
.
.
.
.
> I've also overheard a fair amount of wrong,
> incomplete, or just not the best advice given out
> by the help at big boxes. But then, what should
> these people expect when, for example, they ask
> some 19 year-old bimbo who's never used one in her
> life, what kind of cordless drill to buy?
You misspelled "vibtator".
Julian Macassey
> In article <280320030926182138%ra...@olympus.net>,
> Le Grande Raoul <ra...@olympus.net> wrote:
>
>>Online groceries was tried. And failed. Bigtime. [...]
>
> I'd tell the driver of the Peapod van under my window that, but he looks
> busy.
I am somewhat familiar with Peapod. One thing I can tell
you is that in all the years they have been in business, they
have lost money. They keep trying to tweak it, but what with the
"picking" and the "delivery", they have too much overhead.
Some of us geezers may recall the days when all grocers
delivered. But, in those days the cost of the bicycle, the
delivery boy, etc. was part of the cost of your groceries.
Supermarkets changed that. They reduced overhead, and
increased "Sales per square foot". This allowed them to
drastically lower prices and because of high stock turnover and
therefore "cashflow", they could lower prices further.
Then in the nineties, some Yuppie MBA went "Hey! Let's
deliver groceries! That's never been done before!"
Some people have short memories.
--
Pit bulls are the primered Camaros of the canine world. - Geoff Miller
Alex Elliott
>more to your liking. Going out and shopping and seeing other people is
>part of the ebb and flow of daily life. Humans need social interaction.
Personally, I would be extremely unlikely to switch to online grocery
shopping not because I want to interact with humans, but because I want to
interact with vegetables.
We don't eat many pre-prepared foods (not because we're freaky health
nuts, but because food tastes better if you cook it yourself), so a huge
percentage of our weekly shopping is fresh vegetables. I don't want some
on-line service to just deliver the half-dozen tomatoes that were sitting
on top of the pile - I want to pick out the particular half-dozen tomatoes
that look good to me. Half the time we go to the store with the item
"green vegetable" on the shopping list and only decide which one to get by
seeing which of several possiblities looks the freshest.
Until there's an on-line grocery service that lets me smell cantelopes
over the internet, I'll stick with shopping in person.
Alex.
Articulate Mandible
news:kes-41B3AE.1...@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu:
[dance of the planned ghetto snipped]
> (*) A real hardware store sells stove pipe, fine thread nuts and
> bolts, and the kind of tools used by people who make things from raw
> material. If they don't have an adz, you should leave - although a
> calendar featuring a scantily-clad sweet young thing is a good
> subsitute, as is a radio featuring real (nothing from Nashville)
> country music.
I miss Newbert's Hardware in Sacramento -- converted to a yuppish
laundromat a couple of decades ago. Until its last days you could
still see things like tool steel stock, adzes, broad axes, a host
of sizes of log chain, farriers' tools, roll pins, taper pins,
real manilla rope in any size you might want, bulk roller chain,
blue enamel metal dishes (including coffee pots), and if you
asked, you could get contemporary analogs of the cartwrights'
and wheelwrights' tools on display in the window[0]. Oh, by the
way, there was even a treadle-powered grindstone in the window
and several in stock in the warehouse. Lest I forget, the
bit braces were still available, and I even saw a (errr -- brane
fade) the armstrong-powered portable drill like I've seen Roy
Underhill use on The Woodwright's Shop". Big bulky mother, all
iron and steel, chain it down to a timber to pre=drill holes for
mortising.
[0] even the nifty axle pointers that resembled oversized pencil
sharpeners in the large.
--
Artie the Hinged Jaw, once and future AFU Game Warden
Articulate Mandible
news:p2e98vofj5arvh1og...@4ax.com:
> I'd amend that somewhat. If they don't have an adz, but they know
> what one is and can have one for you in a week, they're still ok.
Toss in a broad axe (left handed, if you please) and its companion
hatchet and I'm your customer. A shipwright's adze would be a decent
added attraction.
Stevet Thompson
> In article <290320030905262467%ra...@olympus.net>,
> Le Grande Raoul <ra...@olympus.net> wrote:
> >
> >You are a sample size of one. Perhaps 'daily or weekly ritual' would be
> >more to your liking. Going out and shopping and seeing other people is
> >part of the ebb and flow of daily life. Humans need social interaction.
>
> Personally, I would be extremely unlikely to switch to online grocery
> shopping not because I want to interact with humans, but because I want to
> interact with vegetables.
Funny, that's why I post to Usenet. If I want to fulfill my social
interaction quota, I'll go out to a dance club, or hang out with my
friends at a nice coffee bar. The Internet serves some purposes, but
not all of them -- as much as some social theorists would like to
disagree, the simple fact is that they're wrong when they try to
pretend that everything can be accomplished via remote control through
a monitor.
Now fuck off, Everyone.
Regards,
Steve
heck
> You are a sample size of one. Perhaps 'daily or weekly ritual' would be
> more to your liking. Going out and shopping and seeing other people is
> part of the ebb and flow of daily life. Humans need social interaction.
> that's why I believe that online shopping will never take over
> completely.
Humans are also drawn to what is cheaper and more
convenient.
Part of Italian culture is the neighborhood shop. A
recent series of articles in some magazine I read detailed
that Italians in the city are now getting supermarkets
where everything that used to be in 6 stores (bakery,
produce, butcher, etc.) are now in 1 big store.
Admittedly this does not disprove your socialization
theory. However, the comment from many who shop
at the supermarkets is that the supermarkets are
much more convenient and usually cheaper. This is
despite the fact that they realize that this means
Bob the Butcher who they've known since they were 3 will
probably go out of business.
And when Bob the Butcher goes out of business he
often ends up working in the supermarket.
If online grocery shopping can be made affordable
(by reducing infrastructure costs) and convenient,
stores will disappear. And people will lament that
they miss the social interaction with Fiona the
Flower Girl; and right afterwards they'll stop off
at the drive through Starbucks so that they can
have some caffeine while they order their flowers
online.
I doubt I have to worry about it. I don't think there
is much money to be made when you have to drive a half
mile between each house as you do in my area. Pizza
delivery hasn't reached our area yet, so I doubt
we'll get grocery delivery. But we did recently get
a Starbucks...
But it doesn't worry me as much as the fact that the
teenage kids across the creek and up the hill from
us just got busted for attempting to start their own
meth lab.
The sheriff referred to one of the kids as a "frequent
flier"; said that this time he won't be returning home
for a few years.
Spot The Peeve
- heck
William Blair Haworth Jr.
Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
>On 29 Mar 2003 10:00:29 -0500, William Blair Haworth Jr.
><bhaw...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
>> In article <280320030926182138%ra...@olympus.net>,
>> Le Grande Raoul <ra...@olympus.net> wrote:
>>>Online groceries was tried. And failed. Bigtime. [...]
>> I'd tell the driver of the Peapod van under my window that, but he looks
>> busy.
> I am somewhat familiar with Peapod. One thing I can tell
>you is that in all the years they have been in business, they
>have lost money. They keep trying to tweak it, but what with the
>"picking" and the "delivery", they have too much overhead.
They do at least seem to have kept overheads down by allying with Real
Supermarkets rather than building their own plant. Or so I understand; I
didn't say it was _my_ groceries being delivered. Like Alex, I'm appalled
at the idea of the some droid picking my meat and produce for me, as long
as I have the strength to drag to Whole Foods under my own power - and the
patience to put up with all their ridiculous haute-granola posturing once
I get there. Good thing there's a tienda on the way where I can get
lard.
--Blair
John Hibbert
G. Paul Ziemba <paul+...@w6yx.stanford.edu> wrote:
> I understand your point about getting help and matching old parts,
> etc., and I would patronize a hardware store that provided that
> kind of service. However, in my experience, intelligent help is a
> dying breed. I haven't been able to get knowledgeable assistance
> at the local places in ages.
This stimulates a memory I have from just a few years ago. We used to
have a hardware store right here in the village which had closed down
about 20 years ago or so. I had gotten an X-Acto set feom this store,
and it had sublimed into lost tool vapor, bit by bit, over the years.
One piece of this set was a fine saw that looked like it belonged to a
miniature mitre box (had a reinforced back). That little thing could cut
through anything, and I used it for such. Shorter and with finer teeth,
I used it where a hacksaw was just too big for the job.
Eventually the saw wore down to the point where it needed to be
replaced. I took a trip to our hardware cornucopia to get a new one.
Certainly something so useful would be somewhere on a shelf in this
megahardware outlet.
Scanning the shelves, I failed to find one. I hailed the attendant at
the desk, who was about fiftyish, had sleeves rolled up, and eager look
and even had a ruler with gaguing holes in it in his shirt pocket. He
had Mr. Hardware written all over him.
"I can't seem to find your X-acto blades." I said. "Am I missing them?"
"What kind of blades?" Maybe the ambient noise in the store muffled my
query.
"X-acto," I said. "Y'know, set of razor blades and other accessories,
usually in a box set. The blades are interchangeable."
"Never heard of this X-acto, but here are some razor blades." He points
to box-cutters and refills.
"No, that's not what I am looking for. I need a replacement for this
little saw." I pulled the saw from my pocket and he looked at as though
I handed him some alien technology.
"Hmmm... we have hacksaw blades if that'll work."
"It won't. You've never heard of X-acto knives?"
"No, never heard of them."
"They've been around for decades..." Trying to prompt his memory. This
guy, in his fifty years, has never encountered such a thing? "This is
what is refered to as a jeweler's saw. Do you have anything like it?"
"Only small saw like that we have is a keyhole saw."
I looked at the keyhole saws - the teeth were about one-to-six to my saw.
"Know of any hobby shops around here?"
Blank stare.
I then realized that this guy wasn't a hardware store clerk. He was an
actor. He looked the part, so the grocery/hardware chain
(Wegman's/Chase-Pitkin) he worked for placed him in hardware because he
looked like a hardware guy. I didn't buy anything that day, needless to
say.
Peeve: companies who place their employees in departments where they
look the part, despite ability.
- jh
--
R.I.P. "The World's Littlest Web Server!"
'Twas Murdered by administration.
J.W.T. Meakin
dibbe...@yahoo.com says...
> Strayhorn <k...@duke.edu> wrote in
> news:kes-41B3AE.1...@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu:
>
> [dance of the planned ghetto snipped]
>
> > (*) A real hardware store sells stove pipe, fine thread nuts and
> > bolts, and the kind of tools used by people who make things from raw
> > material. If they don't have an adz, you should leave - although a
> > calendar featuring a scantily-clad sweet young thing is a good
> > subsitute, as is a radio featuring real (nothing from Nashville)
> > country music.
>
> I miss Newbert's Hardware in Sacramento -- converted to a yuppish
> laundromat a couple of decades ago. Until its last days you could
If you know of a place near the S.F. Bay where I can get an adze,
please say where. So far my search always ends in the following
conversation:
Self: Adze?
Droid: Uh?
Bill.
Alan Gore
>I miss Newbert's Hardware in Sacramento -- converted to a yuppish
>laundromat a couple of decades ago. Until its last days you could
>still see things like tool steel stock, adzes, broad axes, a host
>of sizes of log chain, farriers' tools, roll pins, taper pins,...
Any of you young whippersnappers remember Radio Shack? Real Radio
Shack, I mean, with esoteric ham gear piled up to the ceiling. It was
the place where the fathers and grandfathers of today's geeks poked
through racks of glass tubes numbered like Messier galaxies. You could
find huge coils in innumerable different configurations, and
multiplate tuning capacitors with precision little built-in gearboxes.
The clerks could actually spell terms like "Fahnestock" and
"transconductance". They could advise you on optimal antenna designs.
Ocasionally in this retirement-intensive town, I'll see a 160-year-old
ham in Fry's, where one of his adolescent male descendants has dragged
him while picking out a game cartridge for his Xbox. It's a poor
substitute for Real Radio Shack, but I just know the smell of
electronics is bringing back a flood of Pleistocene memories for that
old geezer.
Natural Born Cereal Killer
>Any of you young whippersnappers remember Radio Shack?
I still have six Battery Club cards. Damn clerks these
days won't honor them. Bastards.
>Shack, I mean, with esoteric ham gear piled up to the ceiling.
Remember when you could walk in, use the tube tester,
grab a couple of socket plugs and a breadboard and pay cash at
the register without giving them more information than your
life insurance company requires? Remember when they actually
sold electronic components instead of just a few cables, solder,
plugs, and adapters at thrice retail price?
I miss that old store. The new ones I intentionally
miss by miles if at all possible.
--
* Dan Sorenson DoD #1066 ASSHOLE #35 BOTY 1997 vik...@svtv.com *
* Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. *
* The town was burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need *
* those sheep anyway. That's our story and we're sticking to it. *
Nathan Nagel
I have no interest in woodworking (well, that's not true. I have no
garage in which to put table saw, bandsaw, etc. so I don't do it.) but
do restore old cars. Since Annapolis has a large boating culture, we
have a store called Chesapeake Marine Fasteners which has everything
that one would expect in terms of hardware and electrical stuff that one
would need for auto restoration... in *stainless steel.*
Oh, Stimpy.
"Special" fasteners are acquired by the simple (heh) process of buying
junk Studebakers and turning them into dumpster fodder, throwing all the
hardware thus acquired into various drawers, boxes, and coffee cans for
future use.
nate
!Peeve: having access to a garage stocked with all this stuff
Peeve: Should my friend who owns the garage prematurely attain room
temperature, we (meaning probably his wife and I, although theoretically
could include quite a few people in our circle of car-resto friends) are
going to have a lot of fun sorting out who owns what, and who gets
what...
Nathan Nagel
*sigh* yeah, I remember Rat Shack... still miss it occasionally, like
when I find Yet Another nice looking old car radio that doesn't work...
nate
Peeve: "what do you mean tube tester? What's that?"
Alex Elliott
Alan Gore <ag...@qwest.net> wrote:
>
>Any of you young whippersnappers remember Radio Shack? Real Radio
>Shack, I mean, with esoteric ham gear piled up to the ceiling. It was
>the place where the fathers and grandfathers of today's geeks poked
>through racks of glass tubes numbered like Messier galaxies. You could
>find huge coils in innumerable different configurations, and
>multiplate tuning capacitors with precision little built-in gearboxes.
>The clerks could actually spell terms like "Fahnestock" and
>"transconductance". They could advise you on optimal antenna designs.
You can still find places like this in big cities (especially ones with
big Asian populations who like to run cheap custom-built computer shops).
There's one near where I work called "Active Surplus" that's just chock
full of all sorts of electronic bits, not to mention all sorts of bizarre
random other stuff.
If you want to buy a handful of random resistors 'n' capacitors, an empty
professional-style speaker case, some channel locks, a telphone touchpad,
an erlenmayer flask, individual chess pieces, and remaindered generic
Barbie heads all in one place - this is the place you go.
I wander through this place during my lunch hour sometimes, but not very
often because I always end buying something.
Alex.
Jesper Lauridsen
> Humans need social interaction.
>that's why I believe that online shopping will never take over
>completely.
Online shopping will not completely take over, until it can
rival the speed and convenience of shopping on the way home
from work.
Stevet Thompson
... tiny video cameras, telephone hardware, computer bits, wire, fans,
motors, odd fasteners, etc., sure. Active Surplus is a great
convenience. There's a spin-off or something up on Bloor just West
of Bathurst, too. Not quite the same selection of stuff, but more
computer oriented.
But if you need discrete components of known tolerance, or things that
come with data sheets or manuals, you have to resort to places like
Electro-Sonic, Active Components, and the like.
> I wander through this place during my lunch hour sometimes, but not very
> often because I always end buying something.
I, too, find myself guiltily ponying up to the counter with a basket
full of remaindered Barbie heads with alarming regularity. Possibly
they put something in the air?
Regards,
Steve
Brian Trosko
> Online shopping will not completely take over, until it can
> rival the speed and convenience of shopping on the way home
> from work.
Going shopping on the way home from work is neither speedy nor convenient.
It's not convenient because the last thing I want to do when I've just
finished a day at work is to go through a store and wade through the
non-speedy masses of slow-ass people who also just decided to go shopping
Alex Elliott
Brian Trosko <btr...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>Going shopping on the way home from work is neither speedy nor convenient.
>It's not convenient because the last thing I want to do when I've just
>finished a day at work is to go through a store and wade through the
>non-speedy masses of slow-ass people who also just decided to go shopping
>on the way home from work.
Solution: Import an evil Asian death-pneumonia epidemic from China. Go
shopping while everyone else cowers in their homes. I was in the mall on
the way home today and the crowds were definitely smaller than usual.
Anyway, I Feel Your Peeve. Just over six weeks ago I made the mistake of
shopping for a birthday card for my mother on the way home from work,
completely forgetting that that was probably a bad idea on February 14th.
Every store selling greeting cards was swarming with panicky males
desperately rifling the mostly empty racks labeled "Valentines Day".
You could just see their agonized indecisiveness as they tried to choose
between the inappropriate-to-the-point-of-scatology cards and the ones
that said, "From your loving grandson" (she won't notice if I cross out
"grandson" and write in "husband", will she?).
To accidentally wander into the direct line between the display of sappy
little teddy bears clutching little satin hearts and the cashiers counter
was to court death.
Alex.
Peter Stickney
ell...@panix.com (Alex Elliott) writes:
> In article <3e8a714a....@news.qwest.net>,
> Alan Gore <ag...@qwest.net> wrote:
>>
>>Any of you young whippersnappers remember Radio Shack? Real Radio
>>Shack, I mean, with esoteric ham gear piled up to the ceiling. It was
>>the place where the fathers and grandfathers of today's geeks poked
>>through racks of glass tubes numbered like Messier galaxies. You could
>>find huge coils in innumerable different configurations, and
>>multiplate tuning capacitors with precision little built-in gearboxes.
>>The clerks could actually spell terms like "Fahnestock" and
>>"transconductance". They could advise you on optimal antenna designs.
>
> You can still find places like this in big cities (especially ones with
> big Asian populations who like to run cheap custom-built computer shops).
> There's one near where I work called "Active Surplus" that's just chock
> full of all sorts of electronic bits, not to mention all sorts of bizarre
> random other stuff.
If you really want a Radio Geeks Dream, check out
http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/radioresearch/rs03.htm
Not far from your old stomping grounds in scenic (ugh) Waterbury, CT.
All manner of fun stuff.
Me, I'm saving up for teh AN/APG-32 B-47 tail turret combination. Let
that kid with the Suzuki Baby Jeep with the extra-super-hyper speakers
know what's what, I'll tell you...
--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster
Peter Stickney
Nathan Nagel <njn...@earthlink.net> writes:
> "Special" fasteners are acquired by the simple (heh) process of buying
> junk Studebakers and turning them into dumpster fodder, throwing all the
> hardware thus acquired into various drawers, boxes, and coffee cans for
> future use.
You've got it lucky, my young friend. At least you can find a
reasonable number of salvagable Studes. Try looking for, say, parts
for the Transfer Case of a 1918 FWD #-ton, or tracks for a Renault FT
Light Tank. It;s not easy when there's only 3 of whatever you have
that are running, and the Smithsonian calls you to answer research
questions.
Of couse the advantage to restoring trucks is that if you drop a part
in the dirt, you can actually find it.
We're also lucky that my grandfather, in his infinite wisdom and best
New England Packrat habits, stocked a liberal supply of spares for the
FWD, when he picked 'em up in '24.
Roy G. Ovrebo
> On 29 Mar 2003 10:00:29 -0500, William Blair Haworth Jr.
><bhaw...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
>> In article <280320030926182138%ra...@olympus.net>,
>> Le Grande Raoul <ra...@olympus.net> wrote:
[snip]
> Some of us geezers may recall the days when all grocers
> delivered. But, in those days the cost of the bicycle, the
> delivery boy, etc. was part of the cost of your groceries.
I'm either a geezer at 28, or it happened later in Norway.
In 1980, at the northern tip of Karmoy, you'd still find
(from memory) 6 grocers in the postal district of Torvastad,
and at least 2 of them delivered with VW transporters.
In 1990, you'd find 1, and that's the one in the most built up area.
Every week, my parents would order goods on Wednesday and get them
delivered on Friday.
> Supermarkets changed that. They reduced overhead, and
> increased "Sales per square foot". This allowed them to
> drastically lower prices and because of high stock turnover and
> therefore "cashflow", they could lower prices further.
That's one thing. Another is that the old grocers retired and the
younger generation never took over, preferring to earn good money
at 40 hour/week jobs.
All autumn and winter, Norwegian media were filled with articles about
spoiled goods in supermarkets. Stuff that was way past the sell-by date,
fruit, vegetables and meat stored too long or not under the right
conditions, you name it. A few of the major chains got some pretty bad
press.
I found myself wondering what the hell the quality was like when we
got goods from that mom'n'pop grocers. _They_ didn't have internal
control systems and certifications.
--
Roy G. Ovrebo
Alan Gore
>You can still find places like this in big cities (especially ones with
>big Asian populations who like to run cheap custom-built computer shops).
>There's one near where I work called "Active Surplus" that's just chock
>full of all sorts of electronic bits, not to mention all sorts of bizarre
>random other stuff.
In the city with the biggest Asian population of all, Tokyo, I knew
the Akihabara marketplace. Imagine a warren of streets radiating from
a subway station, every cubic centimeter of a large volume (minus a
few twisty alleys like the tunnels leading into Cheops' tomb) filled
with electronics rich and strange. From what you say, Akihabaras are
being exported into North American cities by those new Asian
populations.
Alan Gore
>Solution: Import an evil Asian death-pneumonia epidemic from China. Go
>shopping while everyone else cowers in their homes. I was in the mall on
>the way home today and the crowds were definitely smaller than usual.
This new plague seems to be hitting Canada pretty hard. Question: do
the survivors of SARS feel an irresistable urge to walk to Las Vegas
to be part of an ultimate showdown between good and evil?
Ayse Sercan
>If you know of a place near the S.F. Bay where I can get an adze,
>please say where. So far my search always ends in the following
>conversation:
>
> Self: Adze?
> Droid: Uh?
Japan Woodworker, 1731 Clement Ave., Alameda.
http://www.japanwoodworker.com.
HTH.
--
ay...@idiom.com
"Anyone who willingly engages in a battle of wits
with a fish is at best evenly matched." -- Pete Young
J.W.T. Meakin
> J.W.T. Meakin <jw...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >If you know of a place near the S.F. Bay where I can get an adze,
> >please say where. So far my search always ends in the following
> >conversation:
> >
> > Self: Adze?
> > Droid: Uh?
>
>
> Japan Woodworker, 1731 Clement Ave., Alameda.
> http://www.japanwoodworker.com.
>
> HTH.
Thanks for the thought. I've tried them - I spend
too much money there on a semi-regular basis.
They know the word adze, but don't stock them.
Didn't know about the web site though.
But their site search is down.
But Adze is in the index
But the index is wrong.
Buggrit. In any case, I have to hold it to know
if it's right for me.
They seriously need help with that Web site. It belongs
in a Hall of Shame.
Bill.
E Varden
Drop a bomb on 'em. End of problem!!!
Robert (Advisor to GW Bush & Co.)
E Varden
>
Yeah, yeah...
Dce! Where you been anymore?
Pe
Ayse Sercan
>In article <1049350504.677505@smirk>, ay...@idiom.com says...
>> J.W.T. Meakin <jw...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >If you know of a place near the S.F. Bay where I can get an adze,
>> >please say where. So far my search always ends in the following
>> >conversation:
>> >
>> > Self: Adze?
>> > Droid: Uh?
>>
>>
>> Japan Woodworker, 1731 Clement Ave., Alameda.
>> http://www.japanwoodworker.com.
>>
>> HTH.
>
>Thanks for the thought. I've tried them - I spend
>too much money there on a semi-regular basis.
>
>They know the word adze, but don't stock them.
They had one there a month ago when I was there buying a saw. Maybe you
can have one ordered for you.
>They seriously need help with that Web site. It belongs
>in a Hall of Shame.
I do believe they are a hardware store, not a Web Content Provider.
--
ay...@idiom.com
"I think that everyone should have a crazy friend, just to
keep one's own problems in perspective." --Pat Steppic
Le Grande Raoul
wrote:
> J.W.T. Meakin <jw...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >In article <1049350504.677505@smirk>, ay...@idiom.com says...
> >> J.W.T. Meakin <jw...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >If you know of a place near the S.F. Bay where I can get an adze,
> >> >please say where. So far my search always ends in the following
> >> >conversation:
> >> >
> >> > Self: Adze?
> >> > Droid: Uh?
> >>
> >>
> >> Japan Woodworker, 1731 Clement Ave., Alameda.
> >> http://www.japanwoodworker.com.
> >>
> >> HTH.
> >
> >Thanks for the thought. I've tried them - I spend
> >too much money there on a semi-regular basis.
> >
> >They know the word adze, but don't stock them.
>
> They had one there a month ago when I was there buying a saw. Maybe you
> can have one ordered for you.
>
> >They seriously need help with that Web site. It belongs
> >in a Hall of Shame.
>
> I do believe they are a hardware store, not a Web Content Provider.
And, in finest fashion, one part of this thread has come full circle
back to a web presence. Ain't ADFP grand?
On the 'personal interaction" part of the thread: when I lived in a
larger place (Seattle) I had a 'trapline' that I ran on Saturdays. Go
here to look at some cool shit, then another place, then another, then
another. Bought some stuff sometimes but more often than not, I don't.
I can kinda see what some women get out of shopping. Kinda fun even
when ya don't buy anything.
I do a little bit of the trapline running where I live now, leading to
the !Peeves below:
!!Peeve: Bought an aluminum aircraft-quality built half cabin to put on
my Navy whaleboat I'm rebuilding for $250 yeaterday. With curtains
around the back and minimal adapting needed! Just love the marine
surplus outlet in my town (Port Townsend, WA.) Lots of good stuff.
Also bought a really nice ham radio for $40. Been looking at it for
over a year (didn't need it Right Now or, for that matter, Ever) and
was waiting until it got really cheap. Found it yesterday under a pile
of junk and Bob The Owner said "make me an offer- it's been checked and
works. As is, of course." I say, "$40?" Bob sais:"Done". I go home
giggling.
!Peeve: The Men Of ADFP would love Marine Exchange 'cause Bob The Owner
is also a gun and knife nut. Lots of things that go boom and things
that stick and cut.
Jeff
Stevet Thompson
RI RI DCD
E Varden <jp...@munge.vif.com> wrote in message news:<3E8C5A9E...@munge.vif.com>...
DTR CTS
> Decophile wrote:
> >
> Yeah, yeah...
>
> Dce!
___ ___
CTS RTS TXD (SAK) RTS CTS
> Where you been anymore?
___ ___
CTS RTS TXD (NAK)(EOT) RTS
___ ___
DTR DCD
Natural Born Cereal Killer
>>If you know of a place near the S.F. Bay where I can get an adze,
>>please say where.
>Japan Woodworker, 1731 Clement Ave., Alameda.
>http://www.japanwoodworker.com.
If you don't mind ordering on-line or having a fellow peever
of the NorthWest persuasion check it out for you, try this:
http://www.rockisland.com/~kestrel/tools5.html
Of course, you could have found that yourself on Google, but
for one their site isn't broken, and second the appear to be a decent
tool.
-- Dan
Alex Elliott
Alan Gore <ag...@qwest.net> wrote:
>ell...@panix.com (Alex Elliott) wrote:
>
>>Solution: Import an evil Asian death-pneumonia epidemic from China. Go
>>shopping while everyone else cowers in their homes. I was in the mall on
>>the way home today and the crowds were definitely smaller than usual.
>
>This new plague seems to be hitting Canada pretty hard.
There are more cases here than anywhere outside of Asia, that's true; but
all the Toronto cases can be traced to one particular hospital, so it's
not a real epidemic yet.
> Question: do
>the survivors of SARS feel an irresistable urge to walk to Las Vegas
>to be part of an ultimate showdown between good and evil?
Oddly enough, we just bought plane tickets to Vegas yesterday, although I
wasn't planning to deliberately infect myself with SARS just on the off
chance that I might take out Celine Dion (as much as that act would
improve the lot of mankind).
Alex.
John Kimball
not a good idea; on 3 Apr 2003 12:26:16 -0800 stev...@hotmail.com
(Stevet Thompson) blew their wad in Message id:
<b7461e85.03040...@posting.google.com>:
Buffer overrun. Your FIFO is blown.
--
"I will spend as much time as it takes to find out who you and the other
people involved are, and to determine some vague estimate of your level of
participation, and I will track you and them down and kill them after
first torturing them in the most polite and carefully legal way possible.
People who get in my way, or who abet the criminals involved will be
similarly dealt with.
Whether or not I'm successful or not is immaterial. It's the thought that
counts, and you Americans deserve to die for what you have done."
Steve Thompson blows a head gasket and threatens to kill yours truly in
Message-ID: <ccb628ac025dba38...@Qax.com>
Stevet Thompson
> Proof that mixing large quantities of alcohol and Thorazine together is
> not a good idea; on 3 Apr 2003 12:26:16 -0800 stev...@hotmail.com
> (Stevet Thompson) blew their wad in Message id:
> <b7461e85.03040...@posting.google.com>:
>
> >__
> >RI RI DCD
> >
> >E Varden <jp...@munge.vif.com> wrote in message news:<3E8C5A9E...@munge.vif.com>...
> >
> >DTR CTS
> >
> >> Decophile wrote:
> >> >
> >> Yeah, yeah...
> >>
> >> Dce!
> >___ ___
> >CTS RTS TXD (SAK) RTS CTS
> >
> >> Where you been anymore?
> >___ ___
> >CTS RTS TXD (NAK)(EOT) RTS
> >___ ___
> >DTR DCD
>
> Buffer overrun. Your FIFO is blown.
Have you ever speced my UART? No, I didn't think so. Stick to what
you know and you'll be less likely to make a fool of yourself in front
of thousands, if not millions, of people.
Regards,
Steve
Julian Macassey
> Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
>
>> Some of us geezers may recall the days when all grocers
>> delivered. But, in those days the cost of the bicycle, the
>> delivery boy, etc. was part of the cost of your groceries.
>
> I'm either a geezer at 28, or it happened later in Norway.
It happened later in Norway. When I lived in Denmark and
grocers were slipping away and Supermarkets were the coming
thing, Norway had no supers.
My Norwegian girlfriend had two uncles that owned a
wholesale grocery business in Frederikstad.
I also recall going shopping with her in Frederikstad,
where the women behind the counter called her Froeken Norgaarden.
So quaint and turn of the century.
--
Management is where engineers, programmists, and relatives of the
prez go after burnout or failure (or both) - Jeff Liebermann
J.W.T. Meakin
> ay...@idiom.com (Ayse Sercan) writes:
>
> >>If you know of a place near the S.F. Bay where I can get an adze,
> >>please say where.
>
> >Japan Woodworker, 1731 Clement Ave., Alameda.
> >http://www.japanwoodworker.com.
>
> If you don't mind ordering on-line or having a fellow peever
> of the NorthWest persuasion check it out for you, try this:
> http://www.rockisland.com/~kestrel/tools5.html
>
> Of course, you could have found that yourself on Google, but
> for one their site isn't broken, and second the appear to be a decent
> tool.
Thanks. Rock Island looks good; I'm going to try the local store
(japan woodworker) one more time - it's all of a mile away - and
if they don't actually have an adze in stock, get the Sitka gutter
from Rock Island.
Bill.