How do I deal with this? What daughter did Long
Steve
>
> I am a regular poster on both of these groups but I wish to post
> anonymously this time.
>
> My dd and her boyfriend live together. They have a baby together.
>
> Today my dd calls me up crying because her pet rabbit died. She told
> me that it hadn't had any food for two weeks. The deadbeat she lives
> with is a drug addict and is lazy and won't work so they free load off
> of people and have pawned anything of value they own. She has a job
> she got a few weeks ago.
>
> How could my daughter just let her pet rabbit starve to death? I just
> can't get my mind to comprehend it.
----------------------
The rabbit was less important to her than the baby. Be GLAD the rabbit
died!! She may not have to learn that lesson twice now!!
> I thought I knew my daughter but I guess I really don't.
-----------------------
What is SHE supposed to do about it? She has a baby!! You must have made
a reasonable life with you impossible or she wouldn't have chose a
partner to protect her from you and hate you for her!!
> Over the weekend she has had me and her grandparents and her best
> friend all jumping through hoops trying to help her get out of the
> situation with the bf. She said she was going to move in with the
> Grandparents and I offered to pay for her college. Her best friends
> Mom teaches CNA courses and offered her a spot on the next course and
> a job. The best friend offered to watch the baby for free. My ex
> offered to buy her a car.
----------------------------
She is drawn to him EVEN *IF* she hates her b/f's guts, because somehow
YOU have been enough of a prick about her feelings and her desires that
she feels she'd RATHER live in THAT SHITHOLE with THAT ASSHOLE instead
of being with somebody with whom she can be on good terms with YOU!!
Think about it!! Kids do EVERYTHING for a reason, even if they can't
write it all down for you!! YOU have MADE her do this because she can't
handle YOU!! You made her weak by not supporting her doing things her
way when she was a lot younger!! If you were nice to her and she KNEW
she could handle living with you then she leaving him would be EASY!!
> I get up there and she wants to bury the rabbit in the back yard. She
> didn't tell me that the boyfriend was coming.
-----------------
He probably showed up and she couldn't stop him!! He's possibly being
abusive and she has no where to go, to her mind!! Somehow YOU have done
that!! It's usually fights with parents about her sexuality and you
being consistently annoying, patronizing, condescending, controlling and
disrespectful of her in such a manner that she would rather live in SHIT
than live with you, so that's exactly what she's doing!!
If you ever want this to be alright, you're REALLY gonna have to get the
fuck off your high horse and help her WITHOUT the option of CONTROLLING
her, because she'd would much rather she and her baby BOTH die than have
to eat SHIT FROM YOU!!
THAT'S what restrictivism and authoritarianism does to children!!
> I had told her a few
> months ago I didn't want him around me as he cussed me out and I just
> don't want to be around a drug addict. They both get in the back seat
> and I politely said I didn't want him to go. I wanted to blow up at
> him but I didn't.
------------------------
Were you going to be a judgmental bitch, or what? HE won't knuckle UNDER
like SHE will to you, will he!!?? Why the fuck do you think she HIRED a
goon like him??? That's WHY!!! To handle YOU, because she CAN'T!!!
> Then they get out of the car and take the baby back
> inside. She comes out and starts laying me out saying I am
> interfering with her life. Then 2 minutes later she was complaining
> that I failed to make a counselor appointment for her. So I just
> couldn't win. She wants to be independant and do her own thing. When
> I try to help her, she says I am butting in but when I back off she
> says I don't care about her. She went on about her friend and
> Grandparents butting in her life. She says I am never there for her.
> She complains that I dont come over. I don't feel welcome there as her
> bf is always rude to me.
-------------------------
YOU wanted to control her and you got what you fucking deserve, a child
who can't control HERSELF!!! That's what you GET from that!!
NOW you can either try to nervously insecurely justify your giving up on
the mess you made of her, like you CLEARLY are begging PERMISSION to
with this pitiful embarrassing post. Or else:
Or else YOU can now grow up, and suck up your controlling bullshit and
instead help her out of what YOU CAUSED!!! YOU are going to have to do
some growing up first, and that means helping without saying anything,
and loving without criticizing, all the stuff you should have done
before WITHOUT lacing it with your controlling vicious judgmental
POISON!!
> Plus I don't feel safe going to the
> neighborhood where she lives. She was complaining that her
> Grandparents never came to visit her. Her grandparents live a 2 hour
> drive away and they are in their 70s and have serious health problems.
> She just went on and one and by the time she was done, I felt about
> 1/2 inch tall. Here everyone was trying to help her get out of a bad
> situation and she turns around and gives all of us a kick in the ass.
--------------------
YOU DESERVE ONE!!
> I have said I wasn't going to help her anymore as she has done this
> before and I am so soft hearted that I keep trying to help her. I am
> wondering if I should just let her live her consequences no matter how
> bad they are. I can't get it out of my mind that she let her pet
> rabbit starve to death. I am hoping that she wouldn't allow her baby
> to starve to death. The past couple of weeks they have been going to
> neighbors bumming baby formula or the baby wouldn' have had anything
> to eat either.
>
> Freaked Mom
------------------------
I know it's amazing that people can actually RAISE people to BE like
this when THEY don't seem like it themselves, but then the whole pile
about setting an example is mostly garbage, because the way you raise
them has to be lots different than merely being who YOU are!!
If kids JUST followed examples of how YOU live instead of how they are
treated emotionally BY YOU then parenthood would be a fucking snap!!
Your kids can wind up rich even if you're poor if you treat them the
right way, no matter what you have or think you are. Your position in
life and your pride in your moralistic judgmental "example" is not the
problem OR the solution, but the way you TREAT them IS!!
Steve
Steve
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 03:24:50 GMT, freake...@frekedmom.com (Freaked
> Out Mom) wrote:
>
> >I am a regular poster on both of these groups but I wish to post
> >anonymously this time.
>
> these to irresponsible people. Then butt out and let her slide as
> far down the chute as she is going to go ... right now she is having a
> dandy time making her family, friends and neighbors feel guilty for
> not kissing her ass. She does not want help! There is nothing you
> can do for your daughter but pray if you are religious ... at least
> not until she gets rid of the jerk and comes to her senses, which
> unfortunately may never happen. She couldn't turn the rabbit loose
> or go out in a field and get it something to eat? Bullshit!
>
> Floridanewbie
---------------------
Yes, you really ARE a newbie.
CPS won't do ANYTHING unless there is clear neglect. Keeping the baby
warm and fed and dry and in sight is considered sufficient. If they
wanted more they have to take a third of the babies in town. So forget
that.
CPS is not the answer to everything. Sometimes you just have to suck it
up and help if you want to. Don't give money, don't make it horribly
easy, nothing that can be resold, etc. and simply wait for whomever to
get tired of the other one and do something different.
Steve
Tamara
That's rediculous. People *can* be effected by their upbringing, but
that doesn't necessarily make them who they are. At some point you have
to grow up and be responsible for yourself. Saying "I'm this way because
it's what my parents made me" is BULLSHIT.
Tamara
> Igor said...
> Hi Freaked Mom, I must confess that I am a freaked out reader of your
> post.
>
> I have no advice, however I wonder what do you think, if anything,
> helped create your daughter into what she is. Did she get enough
> attention from her parents? Did you two spend enough time with her?
>
> igor
--
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw. -Calvin
Tamara
First, like some of the other posters, I'd do my damndest, interference
or not, to make sure that baby was safe. Your daughter can do whatever
the hell she wants, but the baby doesn't have a choice.
Secondly, after making sure the baby is going to be okay, I'm going to
have to say that there are way too many kids that grow up in spite of
good upbringings. You're going to have to let go. I don't think she's
going to be able to get herself out of this mess, if that's even what she
wants to do, unless she can understand what exactly she's in. And that
might take hitting rock bottom. She's going to either have to take some
responsibility for herself, or live this way forever... and neither
choice is something you can do something about.
Another poster mentioned that she might be on drugs too. I see this as a
very high possibility. Have you asked her about it? Would you even feel
comfortable doing so?
I really think you're going to have to stop offering to help her.
Everyone is. I'm so sorry it's turned out this way for you.
Tamara
> Freaked Out Mom said...
> I am a regular poster on both of these groups but I wish to post
> anonymously this time.
>
> My dd and her boyfriend live together. They have a baby together.
>
> Today my dd calls me up crying because her pet rabbit died. She told
> me that it hadn't had any food for two weeks. The deadbeat she lives
> with is a drug addict and is lazy and won't work so they free load off
> of people and have pawned anything of value they own. She has a job
> she got a few weeks ago.
>
> How could my daughter just let her pet rabbit starve to death? I just
> can't get my mind to comprehend it.
>
> I thought I knew my daughter but I guess I really don't.
>
> Over the weekend she has had me and her grandparents and her best
> friend all jumping through hoops trying to help her get out of the
> situation with the bf. She said she was going to move in with the
> Grandparents and I offered to pay for her college. Her best friends
> Mom teaches CNA courses and offered her a spot on the next course and
> a job. The best friend offered to watch the baby for free. My ex
> offered to buy her a car.
>
> I get up there and she wants to bury the rabbit in the back yard. She
> didn't tell me that the boyfriend was coming. I had told her a few
> months ago I didn't want him around me as he cussed me out and I just
> don't want to be around a drug addict. They both get in the back seat
> and I politely said I didn't want him to go. I wanted to blow up at
> him but I didn't. Then they get out of the car and take the baby back
> inside. She comes out and starts laying me out saying I am
> interfering with her life. Then 2 minutes later she was complaining
> that I failed to make a counselor appointment for her. So I just
> couldn't win. She wants to be independant and do her own thing. When
> I try to help her, she says I am butting in but when I back off she
> says I don't care about her. She went on about her friend and
> Grandparents butting in her life. She says I am never there for her.
> She complains that I dont come over. I don't feel welcome there as her
> bf is always rude to me. Plus I don't feel safe going to the
> neighborhood where she lives. She was complaining that her
> Grandparents never came to visit her. Her grandparents live a 2 hour
> drive away and they are in their 70s and have serious health problems.
> She just went on and one and by the time she was done, I felt about
> 1/2 inch tall. Here everyone was trying to help her get out of a bad
> situation and she turns around and gives all of us a kick in the ass.
>
> I have said I wasn't going to help her anymore as she has done this
> before and I am so soft hearted that I keep trying to help her. I am
> wondering if I should just let her live her consequences no matter how
> bad they are. I can't get it out of my mind that she let her pet
> rabbit starve to death. I am hoping that she wouldn't allow her baby
> to starve to death. The past couple of weeks they have been going to
> neighbors bumming baby formula or the baby wouldn' have had anything
> to eat either.
>
> Freaked Mom
>
>
>
--
Freaked Out Mom
Glen Ashton
I'm very sorry to read about this bad bad situation.
Here are some considerations:
- do not believe what your daughter says - judge her by her actions not
her words
- having rabbit starve to dead is awful, you are right to be stressed
out
- baby is #1 priority - you have very strong grounds to involve the
authorities
- too much/too strong offers of help is counter-productive - a new car!
if she takes a step (a concrete action) towards making things better,
then reward the step in a limited, cautious way. Forget about movie
type endings, where all a sudden she wakes up from the nightmare,
everybody pitches in, and she instantly turns it around - smiles all
around - expect slow progress if it all - it can also get worse when
hard drugs are involved.
- get help dealing with the problem - the newsgroup posting is good and
also look for help via community organizations
- back to the baby - send over baby formula and other stuff that would
be hard to resell.
--
Glen Ashton
Today's joke: http://www.fastnewsdigest.com/
Email to xGlenA...@yahoo.com.invalid (remove two x and .invalid)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
floridanewbie
Out Mom) wrote:
>I am a regular poster on both of these groups but I wish to post
>anonymously this time.
Get child protective services involved ... that baby is at risk from
Ian
Igor wrote:
> I have no advice, however I wonder what do you think, if anything,
> helped create your daughter into what she is. Did she get enough
> attention from her parents? Did you two spend enough time with her?
That's bit harsh: I'd actually thought the opposite was possible, and that
she was a spoiled brat! However, what's coming through to me here is that
there is something else driving. I have to wonder if Freaked Out Mom's
daughter isn't using the same drug. Depending on what drug it is, it may be
very hard to help them: having them move in and sell YOUR television,
video-recorder, etc. while you're out won't help anyone.
Honestly, if it's drug addiction, I don't know how much a parent can be
responsible for that or what they can really do to help. The baby is
another matter.
The only way people can get off some drugs is with whole-hearted commitment
and dedication. They have to want to! If they don't, well the drug may
well be the highest priority in life (certainly above feeding the bunny).
As far as issues of personal responsibility go, the rabbit aside, they are
BOTH responsible. Still, that she is holding down a job is a good sign.
Is there any evidence that she may also be an addict?
Best regards,
Ian
Steve
>
> That's rediculous. People *can* be effected by their upbringing, but
> that doesn't necessarily make them who they are. At some point you have
> to grow up and be responsible for yourself. Saying "I'm this way because
> it's what my parents made me" is BULLSHIT.
>
> Tamara
Nope, they are precisely what they were made to be. They do not get
over having been mistreated for a VERY long time in life. Your
confidence comes from being far luckier than she was, possibly not
emotionally abused nearly as badly, and so you imagine everyone
simply IS the way you are, and it is just not true!!
Steve
> > Igor said...
> > Hi Freaked Mom, I must confess that I am a freaked out reader of your
> > post.
> >
> > I have no advice, however I wonder what do you think, if anything,
> > helped create your daughter into what she is. Did she get enough
> > attention from her parents? Did you two spend enough time with her?
> >
> > igor
Steve
>
> First, like some of the other posters, I'd do my damndest, interference
> or not, to make sure that baby was safe. Your daughter can do whatever
> the hell she wants, but the baby doesn't have a choice.
There's nothing she can do about that, or they'd have to pick up a third
of all babies!! An unbelievable number of young homes are this bad off.
> Secondly, after making sure the baby is going to be okay, I'm going to
> have to say that there are way too many kids that grow up in spite of
> good upbringings. You're going to have to let go. I don't think she's
> going to be able to get herself out of this mess, if that's even what she
> wants to do, unless she can understand what exactly she's in. And that
> might take hitting rock bottom.
---------------------
She probably cannot. That doesn't mean she should be abandoned. What
this mom seems to want to do is get permission from all of us to let her
daughter rot, after she's abused the fuck out of her emotionally all her
life with controlling bullshit. So now she wants to compound her mistake
by abandonment. That's like keeping her daughter in a closet all her
life and throwing her out at 18!! She wanted to control her daughter,
and so logically she got a daughter who doesn't know HOW to control
herself! This idiot mom should finally get around to the job of
supporting her daughter at this late date, and keep all the fucking
judgemental abuse to herself, she'd done enough of that for a HELL of a
long time now. Kids do not get this bad off from good treatment!!
> She's going to either have to take some
> responsibility for herself, or live this way forever... and neither
> choice is something you can do something about.
--------------------------
That stuff's ONLY for humans and monkeys made strong by being allowed to
try things and always having a supportive safe place to come back to
where you weren't emotionally abused for even TRYING!! This daughter was
ragged all her life and told she was shit, and now you're surprised she
BELIEVED it???? Get real!!
> Another poster mentioned that she might be on drugs too. I see this as a
> very high possibility. Have you asked her about it? Would you even feel
> comfortable doing so?
-------------------------
One more symptom of abuse that is only reversed by acceptance, it is NOT
an excuse to abandon this ruined child. She didn't "spoil" her, she
RUINED her!! She always wanted to control and degrade her and now she
wonders why she acts degraded, and why she picked a nasty boyfriend to
scare her mother the fuck away from her!! That's what she hired him for,
don't you know!! Because she couldn't handle her mother's abuse anymore!
> I really think you're going to have to stop offering to help her.
> Everyone is. I'm so sorry it's turned out this way for you.
>
> Tamara
-------------------------------
Bullshit, she hasn't done NEARLY enough to get off so lightly!! You
can't just say to a plant or a child, "grow first, and prove yourself,
and THEN we'll nurture you", you have to give FIRST and be supportive,
and her mother never was!! If she had been then why is the fruit of the
tree so small and weak????? By their fruits shall ye know them...
The cross-guy wasn't talking about plant genetics, but about nurturing
and the lack of it!!
Steve
> > Freaked Out Mom said...
Lesa
"floridanewbie" <florid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39c5955a...@news.mindspring.com...
You need to get a grip on life. When my first was born, we "killed" our
hamster. I wasn't a teen, I was 23. DH had a new job and was working 12
hours days, sometimes 7 days a week. My family was over 1,000 miles away,
and it was January in upstate NY. I was overwhelmed, and the poor little
guy was just totally forgotten about. A dead pet rabbit does not indicate
that the baby is being neglected.
As to the emotional roller coaster this young woman seems to be on, it is
quite understandable. She is a new mom, which is overhwhelming in itself,
and is in a questionable relationship and finding herself questioning the
man she loves and her committment to him (and their new baby now too) which
is more than ovewhelming. She needs time and unquestioning support in order
to break free from him, not lectures or CPS knocking on her door.
Freaked Out Mom
Steve, as usual, you have your head up your ass. You think that
because your parents treated you like shit and messed your head up,
you think that everyone else is like that.
Freaked Out Mom
wrote:
>In article <39c5845...@news.alt.net>,
> freake...@frekedmom.com (Freaked Out Mom) wrote:
>> [snip]
>
>I'm very sorry to read about this bad bad situation.
>Here are some considerations:
>- do not believe what your daughter says - judge her by her actions not
>her words
>- having rabbit starve to dead is awful, you are right to be stressed
>out
>- baby is #1 priority - you have very strong grounds to involve the
>authorities
>- too much/too strong offers of help is counter-productive - a new car!
>if she takes a step (a concrete action) towards making things better,
>then reward the step in a limited, cautious way. Forget about movie
>type endings, where all a sudden she wakes up from the nightmare,
>everybody pitches in, and she instantly turns it around - smiles all
>around - expect slow progress if it all - it can also get worse when
>hard drugs are involved.
>- get help dealing with the problem - the newsgroup posting is good and
>also look for help via community organizations
>- back to the baby - send over baby formula and other stuff that would
>be hard to resell.
>
>--
Thanks for your input. It is hard watching her slide down in the
gutter like this.
Freaked Out Mom
Freaked Out Mom
(floridanewbie) wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 03:24:50 GMT, freake...@frekedmom.com (Freaked
>Out Mom) wrote:
>
>>I am a regular poster on both of these groups but I wish to post
>>anonymously this time.
>
>Get child protective services involved ... that baby is at risk from
>these to irresponsible people. Then butt out and let her slide as
>far down the chute as she is going to go ... right now she is having a
>dandy time making her family, friends and neighbors feel guilty for
>not kissing her ass.
That makes sense. She has been sort of spoiled. Me and her
Grandparents have jumped through hoops trying to please this girl.
She was a sweet caring considerate girl until she turned 13. She got
in with the rough trashy crowd and got on drugs. Ever since then she
has been different. Hard somehow. Then it has been hell ever since.
I have tried to let go and back off since she moved out and just stay
out of it but what is going on is just getting so bad, I find it hard
to stay out of it. If I get invloved, I am butting in. If I stay out
of it I am an uncaring ass. I have found that nothing is ever good
enough for her. The caring etc. is a two way street.
> She does not want help! There is nothing you
>can do for your daughter but pray if you are religious ... at least
>not until she gets rid of the jerk and comes to her senses, which
>unfortunately may never happen. She couldn't turn the rabbit loose
>or go out in a field and get it something to eat? Bullshit!
It is Bullshit! I have had some hard times but would never let a pet
starve to death. Life means something to me and I am sorry it doesn't
mean much to her. She wasnt raised that way. They always seem to
have plenty of money for his drugs or whatever HE wants.
Freaked Out Mom
>
>Floridanewbie
Freaked Out Mom
>Hi Igor,
>
>Igor wrote:
>
>> I have no advice, however I wonder what do you think, if anything,
>> helped create your daughter into what she is. Did she get enough
>> attention from her parents? Did you two spend enough time with her?
>
>That's bit harsh: I'd actually thought the opposite was possible, and that
>she was a spoiled brat!
Yes I think she may be a spoiled brat! I was always there for her.
She never came home to an empty house. I was always there when she
came home from school. She always lived in a nice clean home with
home cooked meals. I went to every school function, plays, parent
teacher meetings, donated my time to the school, girl scouts, sleep
over, summer camp, horse back riding lesson, gymastics. I would go
out and help her with her gymastics whever she wanted me to. I taught
her to drive and took her to get her license. I got fired from my job
because I had to leave work to come get her as she was causing trouble
in school. She would run away all the time. Her Grandmother was in
the hospital very sick and I went down there and took her with me so I
could help my Parents and she ran away down there. She asked me for
money to walk over to the store for candy and she didn't come back.
The next day my Dad calls me at work and said he saw her sleeping in
the porch swing but when he went to open the door, she ran off. My
boss told me if I left, I would be fired so I said this job is great
but my daughter comes first and I left to go hunt for her.
Later on I found out she had been doing drugs, acid and pot. She then
wanted to go into therapy so I took her to a therapise and she got off
the drugs. I asked her why she ran away all the time and she told me
because it was fun and she didn't have to go to school.
This girl has set fire to my home, had some of her trashy friends rob
my house while I was gone taking her little brother to speech therapy.
She did severalthousands of dollars of damage to the house. Her trashy
friends would come over and she would want to leave and I would say no
not on a school night and she would get pissed off and started kicking
holes in the walls.
I fell down the stairs carrying a load of laundry and tore a ligament
in my ankle. She ran off while I was at the doctor getting an air
cast. Someone called me a day later and told me she was outside
walking around. I saw her and took off after her with my cast on. She
was standing there taunting me and laughing at me becase I couldn't
catch her. It broke my heart seeing how cruel she was.
This year my dog had died and I was devestated. He was important to
me. Two days before that, she had jumped out her bedroom window to go
lay around with the guy she has the baby with now. When I foudn the
dog dead, I called over to that boys parents and left a message for
her to call me that it was an emergency. She called and I told her
what happened and asked her to come home as I needed her to be there.
She gave me a quick I am sorry about the dog but she never showed up.
By that time I gave up running after her and chasing her down. When
she ran off like that, I just let it go. 3 days later she FINALLY
decides to come home. Why? Because it was her birthday and she came
home expecting me to take her shopping and buy her a bunch of
expensive gifts. I had told her a few months before, that I would
take her shopping for her birthday. I guess I had just had it of her
inconsiderate behavior and I told her I wasn't taking her shopping
period. I got her nothing for her birthday. First time I had ever
down anything like that. She had some nerve showing up after runnin
away for almost a week expecting me to fork out a grand or so.
> However, what's coming through to me here is that
>there is something else driving. I have to wonder if Freaked Out Mom's
>daughter isn't using the same drug. Depending on what drug it is, it may be
>very hard to help them: having them move in and sell YOUR television,
>video-recorder, etc. while you're out won't help anyone.
She used to use drugs. I have no idea if she is now. There is no way
in hell I would let them move in to my home. So he can lay around and
freeload off of me. I live in a very nice neighborhood and I don't
want a bunch of crack smokers around me. He is a man now. He needs to
start acting like one.
>
>Honestly, if it's drug addiction, I don't know how much a parent can be
>responsible for that or what they can really do to help. The baby is
>another matter.
>
>The only way people can get off some drugs is with whole-hearted commitment
>and dedication. They have to want to! If they don't, well the drug may
>well be the highest priority in life (certainly above feeding the bunny).
>
>As far as issues of personal responsibility go, the rabbit aside, they are
>BOTH responsible. Still, that she is holding down a job is a good sign.
>
>Is there any evidence that she may also be an addict?
I don't know. If she is on drugs too, there isnt much I can do about
it.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ian
>
I guess I should try harder to just let go. He is supposed to be a
man and she is supposed to be a grown woman with a baby to care for.
They need to start taking responsibility for themselves and suffering
the consequences of their actions.
Freaked Out Mom
Freaked Out Mom
wrote:
>
>That's rediculous. People *can* be effected by their upbringing, but
>that doesn't necessarily make them who they are. At some point you have
>to grow up and be responsible for yourself. Saying "I'm this way because
>it's what my parents made me" is BULLSHIT.
>
I know. how long are people going to use the excuse, my parents were
jerks so I am a jerk. Age 25 Age 35? 45? Whatever happened to free
choice and personal responsibilty?
Freaked Out Mom
>Tamara
>
>> Igor said...
>> Hi Freaked Mom, I must confess that I am a freaked out reader of your
>> post.
>>
>> I have no advice, however I wonder what do you think, if anything,
>> helped create your daughter into what she is. Did she get enough
>> attention from her parents? Did you two spend enough time with her?
>>
>> igor
Freaked Out Mom
>Tamara wrote:
>>
>> That's rediculous. People *can* be effected by their upbringing, but
>> that doesn't necessarily make them who they are. At some point you have
>> to grow up and be responsible for yourself. Saying "I'm this way because
>> it's what my parents made me" is BULLSHIT.
>>
>> Tamara
>-------------------------------
>Nope, they are precisely what they were made to be. They do not get
>over having been mistreated for a VERY long time in life.
We can see that Steve. You claim to be in your 50s and you are still
pissed off at Mom and Dad.
How we feel about people and things lies within us. To keep blaming
parents for how fucked up our lives are; if they are, gives them way
too much power over today. You are letting the past eat you up and
ruin today and tomorrow for you.
When are you going to let it go Steve? You hated your parents so you
get revenge on them every day by becoming a paranoid, anti social,
child molester. When are you going to forgive your parents?
Freaked Out Mom
Your
>confidence comes from being far luckier than she was, possibly not
>emotionally abused nearly as badly, and so you imagine everyone
>simply IS the way you are, and it is just not true!!
>Steve
>
Isn't that what you do Steve? You think everyone who isn't screwing
anything with a hole is sexaly repressed. You think that anyone who
isn't haven't sex with their kids is sick. You go on about freedom
and choices and letting people be who they are but you want to force
everyone to be like you.
Freaked Out Mom
Freaked Out Mom
wrote:
>
>First, like some of the other posters, I'd do my damndest, interference
>or not, to make sure that baby was safe. Your daughter can do whatever
>the hell she wants, but the baby doesn't have a choice.
>
>Secondly, after making sure the baby is going to be okay, I'm going to
>have to say that there are way too many kids that grow up in spite of
>good upbringings. You're going to have to let go. I don't think she's
>going to be able to get herself out of this mess, if that's even what she
>wants to do, unless she can understand what exactly she's in. And that
>might take hitting rock bottom. She's going to either have to take some
>responsibility for herself, or live this way forever... and neither
>choice is something you can do something about.
>
>Another poster mentioned that she might be on drugs too. I see this as a
>very high possibility. Have you asked her about it? Would you even feel
>comfortable doing so?
>
I haven't asked her lately. She was on drugs a couple of years ago.
She stopped doin them and went to therapy. I don't know if she is
doing them now. I can ask her.
>I really think you're going to have to stop offering to help her.
>Everyone is. I'm so sorry it's turned out this way for you.
I think you are right.
Freaked Out Mom
>
>Tamara
Freaked Out Mom
wrote:
>
>"floridanewbie" <florid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:39c5955a...@news.mindspring.com...
>You need to get a grip on life.
Floridanewbie has a grip on life. He/she thinks that all life is
important. Even an animal. Just because you killed your pet with
neglect doesn't make it alright. I never could understand how people
take on the responsibility of getting an animal and then they forget
about it.
> When my first was born, we "killed" our
>hamster. I wasn't a teen, I was 23.
You must be very proud.
floridanewbie
>---------------------
>Yes, you really ARE a newbie.
>
>CPS won't do ANYTHING unless there is clear neglect. Keeping the baby
>warm and fed and dry and in sight is considered sufficient. If they
>wanted more they have to take a third of the babies in town. So forget
>that.
Given the statement of the original poster, it is quite unlikely CPS
will find these people or that "home" to be a suitable environment for
a helpless baby ... you seem to have information other than what was
presented. Did you notice the remark which said "The past couple of
weeks they have been going to neighbors bumming baby formula or the
baby wouldn' have had anything to eat either" ...
I think CPS should be called as a last resort .. if they determine the
baby is not at risk, so be it.
>CPS is not the answer to everything. Sometimes you just have to suck it
>up and help if you want to. Don't give money, don't make it horribly
>easy, nothing that can be resold, etc. and simply wait for whomever to
>get tired of the other one and do something different.
>Steve
By the way, drug addicts can trade cans of baby formula or baby
clothes for cash or drugs ... there is a market for everything. Given
the mood swings of the baby's mother, I think she sounds irrational
and, at this time, beyond help, especially since any help is going to
be viewed as an attempt at control.
I should have added in my original post I would NOT underwrite a car
for these people .. there is no way they will keep it insured. There
have been court cases in the US where the parents or grandparents were
sued for providing a vehicle to someone who proved to be irresponsible
& held liable for the subsequent damages.
Floridanewbie
floridanewbie
wrote:
>You need to get a grip on life. When my first was born, we "killed" our
>hamster. I wasn't a teen, I was 23. DH had a new job and was working 12
>hours days, sometimes 7 days a week. My family was over 1,000 miles away,
>and it was January in upstate NY. I was overwhelmed, and the poor little
>guy was just totally forgotten about. A dead pet rabbit does not indicate
>that the baby is being neglected.
Were you living with a drug addict (or possibly one yourself)?
Were you begging the neighbors for baby formula so the baby would have
something to eat?
Did you fail to feed your hamster for an extended period of time?
Would you treat a dog or horse this way? Critters, like people, do
die but to neglect them when they are in your care suggests a problem
to my rational, lizard brain.
>As to the emotional roller coaster this young woman seems to be on, it is
>quite understandable. She is a new mom, which is overhwhelming in itself,
How do you know how new a mom she is? I saw no mention of the baby's
age other than it eats formula ... if the child was breast fed
initially, it could be any age under 18 months.
>and is in a questionable relationship and finding herself questioning the
>man she loves and her committment to him (and their new baby now too) which
>is more than ovewhelming. She needs time and unquestioning support in order
>to break free from him, not lectures or CPS knocking on her door.
She bites the hands that try to help her and they are to stand by for
more of the same, enabling this crummy behavior? What incentive does
she have to change when she can jerk people around this way?
I think your situation and the one described here are very different.
Frankly I hope the original post was a troll to get things stirred up
... it is quite unusual to see a cross-post between APS and ASM.
Floridanewbie
Steve
You can wish it were true all you want, that might gratify you. Too bad
for you it wasn't. I'm sensitive to this crap precisely BECAUSE none of
it was done to me, I only watched others get screwed up. Hell, most
people who are screwed up even confusedly SUPPORT their abusers and
their abuse, a predictable psychological phenomenon, but that wouldn't
be me here then, since I make WAAAY too much noise to be a victim.
Steve
Steve
>
> That makes sense. She has been sort of spoiled. Me and her
> Grandparents have jumped through hoops trying to please this girl.
> She was a sweet caring considerate girl until she turned 13.
Read this as: "She was our browbeaten little toady child till she got
big and horny and wouldn't take our shit anymore."
> She got
> in with the rough trashy crowd and got on drugs.
-----------------------
The girls who are authority abused by YOU antisexual idiots ALWAYS do,
to get the fuck AWAY from that idiotic control crap of yours!!
> Ever since then she
> has been different. Hard somehow. Then it has been hell ever since.
-----------------------
She realized in the back of her mind how parents were SUPPOSED to be
toward her, but she sees she has to hang around with trash to have any
freedom because of oppressors like you, and it pisses her off.
> I have tried to let go and back off since she moved out and just stay
> out of it
------------------------
After she ran away you decided to stop screaming, novel how that works!
> but what is going on is just getting so bad, I find it hard
> to stay out of it.
-----------------------
In other words you're doing it AGAIN!! You just don't fucking LEARN!!
> If I get invloved, I am butting in. If I stay out
> of it I am an uncaring ass. I have found that nothing is ever good
> enough for her. The caring etc. is a two way street.
------------------------
Nope! Not a bit of your garbage!! YOU want to help, but the way you
"help" most of us call HURTING!! You don't REALLY just want to support
her plans and her desires, you just want to buy her obediance to your
stupidity, get the last word and act smug, no wonder she's pissed at
you!!
> It is Bullshit! I have had some hard times but would never let a pet
> starve to death.
----------------------
But you'd let your daughter die of your emotional abuse! How stupid!!
> Life means something to me
------------------------
Don't lie, you don't even take care of your own YOUNG!!
> and I am sorry it doesn't
> mean much to her.
--------------------------
And that's why she cried about it, right???
> She wasnt raised that way.
>
> Freaked Out Mom
-------------------------------
Boy you'd sure didn't raise her to hate you, you just made sure she'd
have to!! You'll find ANY WAY POSSIBLE to try to shit on her!! If it
wasn't the fucking $2 rabbit like the one I ATE last week it would be
something else!! We can count on that out of a cunt like you!!
> They always seem to
> have plenty of money for his drugs or whatever HE wants.
----------------------------
"He" (who is probably your REAL problem here) probably has nothing to do
with all your crap, except that he won't take YOUR bullshit!! I'm
beginning to even doubt whether he's the bad guy here!! I've seen
obnoxious little upwardly mobile cunts like you even INVENT this sort
of slander in order to get your way!! I'm beginning to think you made
your daughter a head case so you could control her, except that she
keeps escaping!! She's confused about where to go because she is
resisting your crazy-making crap!
Steve
Kimberley Kennedy
daughter may also have a drug problem and with an addiction the only one
who can help is herself. Your only concern should be your grandchild. Take
him/her out of that environment by any means necessary (including legal).
If your daughter finds the strength to kick the boyfriend and her disease,
she will thank you.
Kim
Kimberley Kennedy
Igor wrote:
> Hi Freaked Mom, I must confess that I am a freaked out reader of your
> post.
>
> I have no advice, however I wonder what do you think, if anything,
> helped create your daughter into what she is. Did she get enough
> attention from her parents? Did you two spend enough time with her?
>
> igor
>
> Freaked Out Mom <freake...@frekedmom.com> wrote:
> * I am a regular poster on both of these groups but I wish to post
> * anonymously this time.
> *
> * My dd and her boyfriend live together. They have a baby together.
> *
> * Today my dd calls me up crying because her pet rabbit died. She told
> * me that it hadn't had any food for two weeks. The deadbeat she lives
> * with is a drug addict and is lazy and won't work so they free load off
> * of people and have pawned anything of value they own. She has a job
> * she got a few weeks ago.
> *
> * How could my daughter just let her pet rabbit starve to death? I just
> * can't get my mind to comprehend it.
> *
> * I thought I knew my daughter but I guess I really don't.
> *
> * Over the weekend she has had me and her grandparents and her best
> * friend all jumping through hoops trying to help her get out of the
> * situation with the bf. She said she was going to move in with the
> * Grandparents and I offered to pay for her college. Her best friends
> * Mom teaches CNA courses and offered her a spot on the next course and
> * a job. The best friend offered to watch the baby for free. My ex
> * offered to buy her a car.
> *
> * I get up there and she wants to bury the rabbit in the back yard. She
> * didn't tell me that the boyfriend was coming. I had told her a few
> * months ago I didn't want him around me as he cussed me out and I just
> * don't want to be around a drug addict. They both get in the back seat
> * and I politely said I didn't want him to go. I wanted to blow up at
> * him but I didn't. Then they get out of the car and take the baby back
> * inside. She comes out and starts laying me out saying I am
> * interfering with her life. Then 2 minutes later she was complaining
> * that I failed to make a counselor appointment for her. So I just
> * couldn't win. She wants to be independant and do her own thing. When
> * I try to help her, she says I am butting in but when I back off she
> * says I don't care about her. She went on about her friend and
> * Grandparents butting in her life. She says I am never there for her.
> * She complains that I dont come over. I don't feel welcome there as her
> * bf is always rude to me. Plus I don't feel safe going to the
> * neighborhood where she lives. She was complaining that her
> * Grandparents never came to visit her. Her grandparents live a 2 hour
> * drive away and they are in their 70s and have serious health problems.
> * She just went on and one and by the time she was done, I felt about
> * 1/2 inch tall. Here everyone was trying to help her get out of a bad
> * situation and she turns around and gives all of us a kick in the ass.
> *
> * I have said I wasn't going to help her anymore as she has done this
> * before and I am so soft hearted that I keep trying to help her. I am
> * wondering if I should just let her live her consequences no matter how
> * bad they are. I can't get it out of my mind that she let her pet
> * rabbit starve to death. I am hoping that she wouldn't allow her baby
> * to starve to death. The past couple of weeks they have been going to
> * neighbors bumming baby formula or the baby wouldn' have had anything
> * to eat either.
> *
> * Freaked Mom
> *
> *
>
> --
> ***********************************************************************
> Do your algebra homework at http://www.algebra.com
> Solve: x^2+4x+3=0 Plot: y=3*sin(x^2) Ask Questions Word Problems
> http://www.algebra.com
> ***********************************************************************
Steve
>
> Yes I think she may be a spoiled brat! I was always there for her.
> She never came home to an empty house. I was always there when she
> came home from school. She always lived in a nice clean home with
> home cooked meals. I went to every school function, plays, parent
> teacher meetings, donated my time to the school, girl scouts, sleep
> over, summer camp, horse back riding lesson, gymastics. I would go
> out and help her with her gymastics whever she wanted me to. I taught
> her to drive and took her to get her license. I got fired from my job
> because I had to leave work to come get her as she was causing trouble
> in school. She would run away all the time.
GEE, for having done all that FOR her, you'd think from her response
that you'd done all that *TO* her!!! Maybe you DID!! Maybe you tried to
live THROUGH her!! Maybe that's why she's pissed! That list of
activities looks like somebody who is neurotically fixated on how much
YOU get out of it!!!!!!!
With my kids I never actually ever even COUNTED, myself!!
> Her Grandmother was in
> the hospital very sick and I went down there and took her with me so I
> could help my Parents and she ran away down there. She asked me for
> money to walk over to the store for candy and she didn't come back.
> The next day my Dad calls me at work and said he saw her sleeping in
> the porch swing but when he went to open the door, she ran off. My
> boss told me if I left, I would be fired so I said this job is great
> but my daughter comes first and I left to go hunt for her.
>
> Later on I found out she had been doing drugs, acid and pot. She then
> wanted to go into therapy so I took her to a therapise and she got off
> the drugs. I asked her why she ran away all the time and she told me
> because it was fun and she didn't have to go to school.
----------------------------------
Kids want to experiment, mine did too, but they never needed to worry or
even be concerned about how I'd take it. They knew they could get the
truth from me and figure I would express concern, support, love, and
help, and that having tried all that myself that I would completely
understand, and I DID!! And then they got bored with it.
> This girl has set fire to my home,
-----------------------
Either she HATES you the, your fault, or else it was an accident and not
her fault!
You should really stop talking trash about your own kid just to get your
way, and you should stop lying and trying to vainly enlist some kind of
support from the local idiot parents contingent!!
> had some of her trashy friends rob
> my house while I was gone taking her little brother to speech therapy.
> She did severalthousands of dollars of damage to the house. Her trashy
> friends would come over and she would want to leave and I would say no
> not on a school night and she would get pissed off and started kicking
> holes in the walls.
---------------------------------
Gee, I wonder why she'd hate your guts, eh??
Have you NEVER asked that question???
> I fell down the stairs carrying a load of laundry and tore a ligament
> in my ankle. She ran off while I was at the doctor getting an air
> cast. Someone called me a day later and told me she was outside
> walking around. I saw her and took off after her with my cast on. She
> was standing there taunting me and laughing at me becase I couldn't
> catch her. It broke my heart seeing how cruel she was.
------------------------------
Don't you EVER wonder what cruelty of yours she was paying BACK!!!???
Your problem is that everything is always about YOU!!!
> This year my dog had died and I was devestated.
-----------------
Love that dog. (Hate your daughter, but love that dog!)
> He was important to
> me. Two days before that, she had jumped out her bedroom window to go
> lay around with the guy she has the baby with now.
-------------------------
You mean to have sex, and thus fulfill her normal drives and desires.
If anybody trashed YOU as somekind of "lay around" you'd be offended!!
Then again you're probably frigid anyway!
> When I foudn the
> dog dead, I called over to that boys parents and left a message for
> her to call me that it was an emergency.
--------------------
What emergency, the dog was DEAD???
> She called and I told her
> what happened and asked her to come home as I needed her to be there.
> She gave me a quick I am sorry about the dog but she never showed up.
> By that time I gave up running after her and chasing her down. When
> she ran off like that, I just let it go. 3 days later she FINALLY
> decides to come home. Why? Because it was her birthday and she came
> home expecting me to take her shopping and buy her a bunch of
> expensive gifts.
-----------------------
Or she might have figured that date MIGHT remind you that you were
supposed to have a loving relationship with her, but when she saw how
you reacted she just settled for "stuff". And you're SO sure all she
wanted you for was your money!!
GOD lady, if I'd EVER felt like that I'd have NEVER EVER have had
kids!!!
> I had told her a few months before, that I would
> take her shopping for her birthday. I guess I had just had it of her
> inconsiderate behavior and I told her I wasn't taking her shopping
> period. I got her nothing for her birthday. First time I had ever
> down anything like that. She had some nerve showing up after runnin
> away for almost a week expecting me to fork out a grand or so.
-----------------------------
A grand? For a birthday?? God, why? You two wackos must be loaded!!
No wonder you're screwed up!! You've got too fucking much MONEY, and
because of that you don't NEED ANYBODY, do you?? Or is that only what
it SEEMS like to you most of the time!!??
> She used to use drugs. I have no idea if she is now. There is no way
> in hell I would let them move in to my home. So he can lay around and
> freeload off of me. I live in a very nice neighborhood and I don't
> want a bunch of crack smokers around me. He is a man now. He needs to
> start acting like one.
-----------------------------------
Gee, how lovely, such a nice home, with nobody home....
> I don't know. If she is on drugs too, there isnt much I can do about
> it.
--------------------------
Want to bet?? Never ever considered love, have you, just "stuff".
> I guess I should try harder to just let go. He is supposed to be a
> man and she is supposed to be a grown woman with a baby to care for.
> They need to start taking responsibility for themselves and suffering
> the consequences of their actions.
>
> Freaked Out Mom
--------------------------------
You've been trying to find excuses to get rid of her since she first got
big and horny and wasn't your obediant fool anymore, and maybe you can
finally convince yourself you've found enough reasons. Now you just have
to convince yourself that you're not lying to yourself!!
But you can't fool me, or a lot of other people!
Steve
Steve
>
> I know. how long are people going to use the excuse, my parents were
> jerks so I am a jerk. Age 25 Age 35? 45? Whatever happened to free
> choice and personal responsibilty?
>
> Freaked Out Mom
It never develops in kids whose parents try to control them and run
their lives for them, and all that kid can think of is trying to hurt
you back!!
Steve
Christopher L Weeks
> - back to the baby - send over baby formula and other stuff that would
> be hard to resell.
As a note, I work for Bristol-Myers Squibb Company. We get company
products below the cost to retail stores, when we buy it from the company
store. Meade Johnson, owned by BMS, produces Enfamil and Prosobee (sp?).
I know of several coworkers who buy their maximum monthly allotment of
these products and sell them. I'm not sure how it can be worth it, but
there is a market for sold formula.
Sorry,
Chris
Steve
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 02:07:52 -0700, Steve <rst...@armory.com> wrote:
>
> >Tamara wrote:
> >>
> >> That's rediculous. People *can* be effected by their upbringing, but
> >> that doesn't necessarily make them who they are. At some point you have
> >> to grow up and be responsible for yourself. Saying "I'm this way because
> >> it's what my parents made me" is BULLSHIT.
> >>
> >> Tamara
> >-------------------------------
> >Nope, they are precisely what they were made to be. They do not get
> >over having been mistreated for a VERY long time in life.
>
> We can see that Steve. You claim to be in your 50s and you are still
> pissed off at Mom and Dad.
You might pray for such a thing to be true, but it isn't. Instead I am
exceptionally sensitive to the bullshit of people like you because I was
NOT raised by your kind of idiot.
> How we feel about people and things lies within us. To keep blaming
> parents for how fucked up our lives are; if they are, gives them way
> too much power over today. You are letting the past eat you up and
> ruin today and tomorrow for you.
------------------------------
Gee, I thought I was commenting on YOUR current imbroglio!! Mercy me,
you mean the past is :"Eating me up?" I didn't feel a thing! But it sure
as fuck is paying YOUR sorry little butthole off big-time THIS week,
ain't it!!
> When are you going to let it go Steve? You hated your parents so you
> get revenge on them every day by becoming a paranoid, anti social,
> child molester. When are you going to forgive your parents?
>
> Freaked Out Mom
----------------------------------
They never did anything BAD like you did!!
Why would I need to forgive them!!
BOY, you see somebody INTACT from their childhood and it just rubs your
little clit the wrong way, doesn't it!!
> Your
> >confidence comes from being far luckier than she was, possibly not
> >emotionally abused nearly as badly, and so you imagine everyone
> >simply IS the way you are, and it is just not true!!
> >Steve
> >
>
> Isn't that what you do Steve?
------------------------
I was far luckier than almost EVERYBODY I know!! So what?
> You think everyone who isn't screwing
> anything with a hole is sexaly repressed.
-------------------------
They don't have to screw ALL the time, as long as they keep busy!! ;->
> You think that anyone who
> isn't haven't sex with their kids is sick.
-------------------------
I think it's a homey thing to do together. I really don't think you
could handle it, however!
> You go on about freedom
> and choices and letting people be who they are but you want to force
> everyone to be like you.
>
> Freaked Out Mom
----------------------------
Force idiots like you NOT make the mistakes you have made so far with
your daughter??? I'd THINK you'd fucking AGREE with me about THAT one by
now as being preferable to your current bullshit!!
Sure, I'd like to help you sad cases become more like me. I see it as
an interesting hobby, to turn your head back the right way whenever you
want to beg off with a vicious cliche soap-opera answer for everything!!
Steve
Steve
>
> >Yes, you really ARE a newbie.
> >
> >CPS won't do ANYTHING unless there is clear neglect. Keeping the baby
> >warm and fed and dry and in sight is considered sufficient. If they
> >wanted more they have to take a third of the babies in town. So forget
> >that.
>
> Given the statement of the original poster,
They will take such a statement as rumor and self-serving if they cannot
confirm that the baby is in danger from poverty. Actually, as long as
they CAN find food for the child, the state doesn't even care HOW!!
> it is quite unlikely CPS
> will find these people or that "home" to be a suitable environment for
> a helpless baby ... you seem to have information other than what was
> presented. Did you notice the remark which said "The past couple of
> weeks they have been going to neighbors bumming baby formula or the
> baby wouldn' have had anything to eat either" ...
-------------------------
I read it. The state sees that as responsible behavior!! Whereas NOT
doing that WOUld be!!
> I think CPS should be called as a last resort .. if they determine the
> baby is not at risk, so be it.
>
> >CPS is not the answer to everything. Sometimes you just have to suck it
> >up and help if you want to. Don't give money, don't make it horribly
> >easy, nothing that can be resold, etc. and simply wait for whomever to
> >get tired of the other one and do something different.
> >Steve
>
> By the way, drug addicts can trade cans of baby formula or baby
> clothes for cash or drugs ... there is a market for everything. Given
> the mood swings of the baby's mother, I think she sounds irrational
> and, at this time, beyond help, especially since any help is going to
> be viewed as an attempt at control.
------------------------------
Unlikely. Drug dealers don't like collecting merchandise, not at ALL!!
> I should have added in my original post I would NOT underwrite a car
> for these people .. there is no way they will keep it insured. There
> have been court cases in the US where the parents or grandparents were
> sued for providing a vehicle to someone who proved to be irresponsible
> & held liable for the subsequent damages.
>
> Floridanewbie
-------------------------------
Imaginary! Your verbiage "providing a vehicle" is not even a legal
description of anything, let alone a crime!! If they were old enough to
own it they are old enough to insure it or get it towed away! If I rent
a car and get a ticket does Hertz get involved? Nope. Just the driver.
Steve
Mike and Sharon Hays
"Freaked Out Mom" <freake...@frekedmom.com> wrote in message
news:39c5f886...@news.alt.net...
>
> I guess I should try harder to just let go. He is supposed to be a
> man and she is supposed to be a grown woman with a baby to care for.
> They need to start taking responsibility for themselves and suffering
> the consequences of their actions.
>
> Freaked Out Mom
I think this says it all. It really is the truth of the situation. I
understand, as any mother could, how hard it must be for you to let go of
your daughter and let her learn on her own. That's hard no matter what the
situation or the child's age. But she is grown enough now to be a mother
herself.
I understand too part of your fear, probably the biggest part, is for your
grandchild. This is the person in this I think you can help the most. I
know it would be very, very painful, but I think you should give some
serious thought about ways to get your grandchild out of that environment.
Your daughter and her SO are on their own. Let them be on their own. She
will either learn that he isn't for her and she needs to change her life, or
she will not. He is not a concern of yours. Let him continue to flush
himself down the toilet of a life he has chosen. But do something for your
grandchild. I don't know if you are in a position financially, or
emotionally to try and raise the baby on your own. I know that is a huge
undertaking at any age. But at an age where your are close to being
finished raising children (don't know how old your son is) it would be
understandable if you didn't want to go down that road again. If you feel
like you could raise the baby, look into sueing her for custody. If the
father is smoking crack, it would not be hard at all to prove that is an
unfit environment for the baby. If your daughter has started using again,
that would only make things that much easier to get the baby out of there.
If you don't think you could raise the baby, then call the police and tell
them that you think there is drug use going on and that there is a baby
present. They will take care of all of it. Yes, that would probably mean
that the baby would go into foster care. I know CPS and foster care are at
the base of a lot of bad things. But they are also the reason a friend of
mine is alive and well today. So it's not always bad.
Give it some thought. I really think you are right that you have to start
letting go of all the stuff with your daughter. I know that is going to be
extremely hard. And if you think you want to try and get custody of the
baby, call a family law attorney and see what you need to do.
Good luck
Sharon
Kimberley Kennedy
Steve wrote:
Steve...that isn't true. Drug dealers collect everything! Baby formula, Xmas
gifts, tools, food (meat is a big thing), some people go to the food bank and
sell the food to their supplier. It isn't a movie, it is real life and it
happens. I don't live in the US but not feeding your child can matter to the
social services especially if there a relative willing to provide a home for
the child.
>
>
> > I should have added in my original post I would NOT underwrite a car
> > for these people .. there is no way they will keep it insured. There
> > have been court cases in the US where the parents or grandparents were
> > sued for providing a vehicle to someone who proved to be irresponsible
> > & held liable for the subsequent damages.
> >
> > Floridanewbie
> -------------------------------
> Imaginary! Your verbiage "providing a vehicle" is not even a legal
> description of anything, let alone a crime!! If they were old enough to
> own it they are old enough to insure it or get it towed away! If I rent
> a car and get a ticket does Hertz get involved? Nope. Just the driver.
> Steve
I think I have read somewhere lately that some states are thinking about
making parents responsible for their children. Not sure it applies in this
case because I am sure it is only minor children.
stepha...@my-deja.com
some ideas of what I *think* I might do. (I am not sure you can know
until you are in it.)
1. I would reconcile myself to the idea of her calling me and thinking
of me as an uncaring person. I would attempt to make myself not care
that she sees me that way.
2. I would sit down and put in writing, in a concise format like
outline or bullet, my feelings on the subject. I would include EXACTLY
what I am willing to do to help. AND the conditions which must be met
to receive that help. I would focus only on immediate needs. The
conditions would include being treated with respect in interactions
with both her and her bf.
3. I would schedule a go out for coffee with her, making it clear that
the bf is not invited. (Nicely as I can.) At that visit, I would
explain all the things in writing. I would explain that she has told
you she wants to live her life and that is what I am attempting to
respect. If the things on my list of things I am willing to help with
are not the things she wants, then that is part of living her own life.
If she wants me to make therapy (I think you mentioned therapy)
appointments for her, and it is not on my list of willing to help, then
she has to do it as part of living her own life. If she wants to think
of me as an uncaring mother, then that is just what her life tells her
to do. I would explain, as calmly and nicely as I possibly could,
EXACTLY what I think of the position she is in. If it meant calling her
irresponsible and selfish, I would call her that. I would be crystal
clear and not sugar coating. I would explain to her that nothing could
stop me loving my daughter, and that I hate to see her that way. But I
would make it clear that we disagree about her decisions.
4. I would leave the paper with her. And I would walk away. PERIOD. I
would never again respond to an accusation of being uncaring. I would
simply say something like "I am sorry you feel that way." I would never
let it provoke me into giving something else that she wants.
About calling CPS or not calling CPS... I would never advise someone
one way or the other. Only you can determine what your conscience tells
you to do and the actual risk to the baby.
Some of the posters have insinuated that your daughter is hosed for
life. I do not beleive that is true. Anyone can change. Who knows when
it happens. Have faith in her, and be there for help if she ever REALLY
wants it. Otherwise, let her learn her very hard lesson.
That is my opinion. Good luck.
Stephanie
In article <39c5845...@news.alt.net>,
freake...@frekedmom.com (Freaked Out Mom) wrote:
> I am a regular poster on both of these groups but I wish to post
> anonymously this time.
>
> My dd and her boyfriend live together. They have a baby together.
>
> Today my dd calls me up crying because her pet rabbit died. She told
> me that it hadn't had any food for two weeks. The deadbeat she lives
> with is a drug addict and is lazy and won't work so they free load off
> of people and have pawned anything of value they own. She has a job
> she got a few weeks ago.
>
> How could my daughter just let her pet rabbit starve to death? I just
> can't get my mind to comprehend it.
>
> I thought I knew my daughter but I guess I really don't.
>
> Over the weekend she has had me and her grandparents and her best
> friend all jumping through hoops trying to help her get out of the
> situation with the bf. She said she was going to move in with the
> Grandparents and I offered to pay for her college. Her best friends
> Mom teaches CNA courses and offered her a spot on the next course and
> a job. The best friend offered to watch the baby for free. My ex
> offered to buy her a car.
>
> I get up there and she wants to bury the rabbit in the back yard. She
> didn't tell me that the boyfriend was coming. I had told her a few
> months ago I didn't want him around me as he cussed me out and I just
> don't want to be around a drug addict. They both get in the back seat
> and I politely said I didn't want him to go. I wanted to blow up at
> him but I didn't. Then they get out of the car and take the baby back
> inside. She comes out and starts laying me out saying I am
> interfering with her life. Then 2 minutes later she was complaining
> that I failed to make a counselor appointment for her. So I just
> couldn't win. She wants to be independant and do her own thing. When
> I try to help her, she says I am butting in but when I back off she
> says I don't care about her. She went on about her friend and
> Grandparents butting in her life. She says I am never there for her.
> She complains that I dont come over. I don't feel welcome there as her
> bf is always rude to me. Plus I don't feel safe going to the
> neighborhood where she lives. She was complaining that her
> Grandparents never came to visit her. Her grandparents live a 2 hour
> drive away and they are in their 70s and have serious health problems.
> She just went on and one and by the time she was done, I felt about
> 1/2 inch tall. Here everyone was trying to help her get out of a bad
> situation and she turns around and gives all of us a kick in the ass.
>
> I have said I wasn't going to help her anymore as she has done this
> before and I am so soft hearted that I keep trying to help her. I am
> wondering if I should just let her live her consequences no matter how
> bad they are. I can't get it out of my mind that she let her pet
> rabbit starve to death. I am hoping that she wouldn't allow her baby
> to starve to death. The past couple of weeks they have been going to
> neighbors bumming baby formula or the baby wouldn' have had anything
> to eat either.
>
> Freaked Mom
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Freaked Out Mom
Steve how the hell would YOU know? You seem to know a whole hell of a
lot about something that A. You CLAIM wasnt' done to you B. You CLAIM
you didn't do to your kids.
Freaked Out Mom
Florida, I am a regular poster to both groups but just wish to remain
anon this time. I wish this whole nightmare was fiction.
>Floridanewbie
Freaked Out Mom
>Steve <rst...@armory.com> wrote:
>* She is drawn to him EVEN *IF* she hates her b/f's guts, because somehow
>* YOU have been enough of a prick about her feelings and her desires that
>* she feels she'd RATHER live in THAT SHITHOLE with THAT ASSHOLE instead
>* of being with somebody with whom she can be on good terms with YOU!!
>* Think about it!! Kids do EVERYTHING for a reason, even if they can't
>* write it all down for you!! YOU have MADE her do this because she can't
>* handle YOU!! You made her weak by not supporting her doing things her
>* way when she was a lot younger!! If you were nice to her and she KNEW
>* she could handle living with you then she leaving him would be EASY!!
>
>Hey Steve, how do you know all this?
Steve just makes things up. He keeps calling them kids. They aren't
kids anymore. They are adults and parents. Oh Oh I said parents.
According to Steve they can be hated now by their baby because they
are parents and are going to screw up the baby's life!
>
>Are you just presuming it?
>
>Why are you giving answers that are more or less groundless without
>asking questions first?
SRHami
maybe hard to admit but it's not your fault. At some point us parents are no
longer to blame. Glen gave some real solid advice.
Good luck with the baby
Sherri in Japan
Mom to Lauryn (8) and Angela (5)
SRHami
us with what might be the daughter's story but I'm more inclined to believe the
Mom. Hopefully Mom isn't over reacting to her dd's bf. Should the young
couple stay together it would hurt the mother/dd relationship. But I would
like to assume that Mom has a level head and knows best.
SRHami
those words are probably the exact thoughts going thru DD's head.
Freaked Out Mom
>Holy shit! I know a child sort of like this, but a little bit better.
>
>What do you feel about your grandchild?
>
I love him!!! That is how I feel!
>igor
>
>Freaked Out Mom <freake...@frekedmom.com> wrote:
>* On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:46:52 +1100, Ian <an...@anon.com> wrote:
>*
>* >Hi Igor,
>* >
>* >Igor wrote:
>* >
>* >> I have no advice, however I wonder what do you think, if anything,
>* >> helped create your daughter into what she is. Did she get enough
>* >> attention from her parents? Did you two spend enough time with her?
>* >
>* >That's bit harsh: I'd actually thought the opposite was possible, and that
>* >she was a spoiled brat!
>*
>* Yes I think she may be a spoiled brat! I was always there for her.
>* She never came home to an empty house. I was always there when she
>* came home from school. She always lived in a nice clean home with
>* home cooked meals. I went to every school function, plays, parent
>* teacher meetings, donated my time to the school, girl scouts, sleep
>* over, summer camp, horse back riding lesson, gymastics. I would go
>* out and help her with her gymastics whever she wanted me to. I taught
>* her to drive and took her to get her license. I got fired from my job
>* because I had to leave work to come get her as she was causing trouble
>* in school. She would run away all the time. Her Grandmother was in
>* the hospital very sick and I went down there and took her with me so I
>* could help my Parents and she ran away down there. She asked me for
>* money to walk over to the store for candy and she didn't come back.
>* The next day my Dad calls me at work and said he saw her sleeping in
>* the porch swing but when he went to open the door, she ran off. My
>* boss told me if I left, I would be fired so I said this job is great
>* but my daughter comes first and I left to go hunt for her.
>*
>* Later on I found out she had been doing drugs, acid and pot. She then
>* wanted to go into therapy so I took her to a therapise and she got off
>* the drugs. I asked her why she ran away all the time and she told me
>* because it was fun and she didn't have to go to school.
>*
>* This girl has set fire to my home, had some of her trashy friends rob
>* my house while I was gone taking her little brother to speech therapy.
>* She did severalthousands of dollars of damage to the house. Her trashy
>* friends would come over and she would want to leave and I would say no
>* not on a school night and she would get pissed off and started kicking
>* holes in the walls.
>*
>* I fell down the stairs carrying a load of laundry and tore a ligament
>* in my ankle. She ran off while I was at the doctor getting an air
>* cast. Someone called me a day later and told me she was outside
>* walking around. I saw her and took off after her with my cast on. She
>* was standing there taunting me and laughing at me becase I couldn't
>* catch her. It broke my heart seeing how cruel she was.
>*
>* This year my dog had died and I was devestated. He was important to
>* me. Two days before that, she had jumped out her bedroom window to go
>* lay around with the guy she has the baby with now. When I foudn the
>* dog dead, I called over to that boys parents and left a message for
>* her to call me that it was an emergency. She called and I told her
>* what happened and asked her to come home as I needed her to be there.
>* She gave me a quick I am sorry about the dog but she never showed up.
>* By that time I gave up running after her and chasing her down. When
>* she ran off like that, I just let it go. 3 days later she FINALLY
>* decides to come home. Why? Because it was her birthday and she came
>* home expecting me to take her shopping and buy her a bunch of
>* expensive gifts. I had told her a few months before, that I would
>* take her shopping for her birthday. I guess I had just had it of her
>* inconsiderate behavior and I told her I wasn't taking her shopping
>* period. I got her nothing for her birthday. First time I had ever
>* down anything like that. She had some nerve showing up after runnin
>* away for almost a week expecting me to fork out a grand or so.
>*
>* > However, what's coming through to me here is that
>* >there is something else driving. I have to wonder if Freaked Out Mom's
>* >daughter isn't using the same drug. Depending on what drug it is, it may be
>* >very hard to help them: having them move in and sell YOUR television,
>* >video-recorder, etc. while you're out won't help anyone.
>*
>* She used to use drugs. I have no idea if she is now. There is no way
>* in hell I would let them move in to my home. So he can lay around and
>* freeload off of me. I live in a very nice neighborhood and I don't
>* want a bunch of crack smokers around me. He is a man now. He needs to
>* start acting like one.
>*
>* >
>* >Honestly, if it's drug addiction, I don't know how much a parent can be
>* >responsible for that or what they can really do to help. The baby is
>* >another matter.
>* >
>* >The only way people can get off some drugs is with whole-hearted commitment
>* >and dedication. They have to want to! If they don't, well the drug may
>* >well be the highest priority in life (certainly above feeding the bunny).
>* >
>* >As far as issues of personal responsibility go, the rabbit aside, they are
>* >BOTH responsible. Still, that she is holding down a job is a good sign.
>* >
>* >Is there any evidence that she may also be an addict?
>*
>* I don't know. If she is on drugs too, there isnt much I can do about
>* it.
>*
>* >
>* >Best regards,
>* >
>* >Ian
>* >
>*
>* I guess I should try harder to just let go. He is supposed to be a
>* man and she is supposed to be a grown woman with a baby to care for.
>* They need to start taking responsibility for themselves and suffering
>* the consequences of their actions.
>*
>* Freaked Out Mom
>
>
>--
SRHami
I wonder though with all that you gave her did you ever give her the chance to
wash dishes daily, scrub a toilet, plant a garden, roast a turkey, get dirt
under her nails?
Did you ever take her toys away? For good...not just hide them in a closet.
Was she ever grounded for more than 5 minutes? Was she ever told to pay you
back for the money you spent on lessons because she missed one for bad
behavior?
I'm not trying to be judgemental. I'd really like to know because in my
opinion my children are spoiled. I seem to be back tracking now trying to
take away a lot of material things that I have given them and replace them with
more valuable commodities like appreciation and respect. It may be a few more
years before I find out if my efforts are working.
Tamara
Okay, I'm nice and calm now :) I just hate hate hate that excuse no
matter who it comes from. Blech.
Tamara
> Relax Tamara, I was just asking a question. I agree that sometimes
> kids are just totally screwed up in the head for almost no reason.
>
> igor
--
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw. -Calvin
Freaked Out Mom
>This topic really has me curious because I have 2 young daughters.
>
>I wonder though with all that you gave her did you ever give her the chance to
>wash dishes daily, scrub a toilet, plant a garden, roast a turkey, get dirt
>under her nails?
She probably should have had more chores. She has washed dishes,
planted a garden, and all those other things. She is a good cook. She
always complained that she was a slave because she had to fold some
laundry or sweep the carpets or some other terrible chore! :-) Her
friend told her she couldn't believe we made her do chores.
>
>Did you ever take her toys away? For good...not just hide them in a closet.
No
>Was she ever grounded for more than 5 minutes?
Yes
> Was she ever told to pay you
>back for the money you spent on lessons because she missed one for bad
>behavior?
>
She was told to pay us back for a few things but she never did.
I bought her a beautiful Bach Strat silver trumpet when she was in
marching band. $1600 for a trumpet. She didn't have it a week and
she let it get stolen.
Our insurance paid for most of it but we wanted her to pay back $200
of it. She never did.
I let her drive my car one time and she came back late and came in and
told me a big story how someone had hit her in the parking lot at the
mall and busted the outside mirror. I strongly suspected she was
lying so we drove over there and there was no glass. Later on she was
on the phone in her room and I overheard her telling her friend that
she was over some boys house and she backed out of the driveway and
busted the mirror. I confronted her and said I overheard what she
said and FINALLY she admitted it. It cost me $250 to get it replaced
as it is one of the power mirrors. She was supposed to pay for it and
never did.
>I'm not trying to be judgemental. I'd really like to know because in my
>opinion my children are spoiled. I seem to be back tracking now trying to
>take away a lot of material things that I have given them and replace them with
>more valuable commodities like appreciation and respect. It may be a few more
>years before I find out if my efforts are working.
I hope it does work for you. I wouldn't wish this nightmare on
anyone.
Splanche
>wash dishes daily, scrub a toilet, plant a garden, roast a turkey, get dirt
>under her nails?
I found this Paul Harvey quote on-line once-- thought it deserved a repost. I
don't agree with all of it, but I agree with the intent:
We tried so hard to make things better for our kids that we made them worse.
For my grandchildren, I'd like better.
I'd really like for them to know about hand me down clothes and homemade ice
cream and left over meat loaf sandwiches. I really would. I hope you learn
humility by being humiliated, and that you learn honesty by being cheated. I
hope you learn to make your own bed and mow the lawn and wash the car. And I
really hope nobody gives you a brand new car when you are sixteen.
It will be good if at least one time you can see puppies born and your old dog
put to sleep. I hope you get a black eye fighting for something you believe
in, I hope you have to share a bedroom with your younger brother. And it's all
right if you have to draw a line down the middle of the room, but when he wants
to crawl under the covers with you because he's scared, I hope you let him.
When you want to see a movie and your little brother wants to tag along, I hope
you'll let him. I hope you have to walk uphill to school with your friends and
that you live in a town where you can do it safely.
On rainy days when you have to catch a ride, I hope you don't ask your driver
to drop you two blocks away so you won't be seen riding with someone as uncool
as your Mom.
If you want a slingshot, I hope your Dad teaches you how to make one instead of
buying one. I hope you learn to dig in the dirt and read books. When you
learn to use computers, I hope you also learn to add and subtract in your head.
I hope you get teased by your friends when you have your first crush on a
girl, and when you talk back to your mother that you learn what ivory soap
tastes like.
May you skin your knee climbing a mountain, burn you hand on a stove and stick
your tongue on a frozen flagpole. I don't care if you try a beer once, but I
hope you don't like it. And if a friend offers you dope or a joint, I hope you
realize he is not your friend.
I sure hope you make time to sit on a porch with your Grandpa and go fishing
with your Uncle. May you feel sorrow at a funeral and joy during the holidays.
I hope your mother punishes you when you throw a baseball through you
neighbor's window and that she hugs you and kisses you at Christmas time when
you give her a plaster mold of your hand.
These things I wish for you-tough times and disappointment, hard work and
happiness. To me, its the only way to appreciate life.
- Blanche
Mark
wrote:
>In article <39c5845...@news.alt.net>,
> freake...@frekedmom.com (Freaked Out Mom) wrote:
>> [snip]
>
>I'm very sorry to read about this bad bad situation.
>Here are some considerations:
>- do not believe what your daughter says - judge her by her actions not
>her words
>- having rabbit starve to dead is awful, you are right to be stressed
>out
>- baby is #1 priority - you have very strong grounds to involve the
>authorities
>- too much/too strong offers of help is counter-productive - a new car!
>if she takes a step (a concrete action) towards making things better,
>then reward the step in a limited, cautious way. Forget about movie
>type endings, where all a sudden she wakes up from the nightmare,
>everybody pitches in, and she instantly turns it around - smiles all
>around - expect slow progress if it all - it can also get worse when
>hard drugs are involved.
>- get help dealing with the problem - the newsgroup posting is good and
>also look for help via community organizations
>- back to the baby - send over baby formula and other stuff that would
>be hard to resell.
I would have to agree with the above advice. You also may need to
face the fact that your daughter might possibly be a drug addict also.
I have known several drug addicts in my life and one trait that
addicts NEVER have is a normal, logical, thought process.
Good luck to both you and your daughter.
Sourdough
excuse. Past experiences often explain current behavior, but rarely
excuse it.
--
Consider a duck. It encounters the air, water and soil.
It benefits from each, is hindered by none, harms nothing.
They are cute, too. Be a duck!
Old Slovakian Saying
--
"Tamara" <bo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.142ff3b83...@news.cybertrails.com...
Sourdough
--
Consider a duck. It encounters the air, water and soil.
It benefits from each, is hindered by none, harms nothing.
They are cute, too. Be a duck!
Old Slovakian Saying
--
<stepha...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8q5a84$hsi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
louisa
<christop...@bms.com> wrote:
> Glen Ashton wrote:
>
> > - back to the baby - send over baby formula and other stuff that would
> > be hard to resell.
>
> As a note, I work for Bristol-Myers Squibb Company. We get company
> products below the cost to retail stores, when we buy it from the company
> store. Meade Johnson, owned by BMS, produces Enfamil and Prosobee (sp?).
> I know of several coworkers who buy their maximum monthly allotment of
> these products and sell them. I'm not sure how it can be worth it, but
> there is a market for sold formula.
>
> Sorry,
>
> Chris
baby formula theft is big business -- and of course baby formula is used
to cut drugs too.
Freaked Out Mom
>Hi. Sorry to hear about your troubles. Sounds pretty horrific. I have
>some ideas of what I *think* I might do. (I am not sure you can know
>until you are in it.)
I really like this. Great idea!
>
>1. I would reconcile myself to the idea of her calling me and thinking
>of me as an uncaring person. I would attempt to make myself not care
>that she sees me that way.
I try not to care and when she is going off on me with her laundry
list of my faults and crimes against her, I just sit there and say I
am sorry over and over. I never say anything back. I just keep
apologizing and then I go home and cry and cry because she hurt me so
bad. After her rants I feel like gum on the bottom of a shoe.
>
>2. I would sit down and put in writing, in a concise format like
>outline or bullet, my feelings on the subject. I would include EXACTLY
>what I am willing to do to help. AND the conditions which must be met
>to receive that help. I would focus only on immediate needs. The
>conditions would include being treated with respect in interactions
>with both her and her bf.
I will do it. I will wait a few days until things are calmer.
I have faith that she will change some day.
BOBette
rebellious head strong teen who thought she knew everything. This was
not that awfully long ago either. thankfully when I had a baby I grew
up quite abit but it didn't change my relationships much.
What I wanted to say was that the best thing you can do is to make sure
the baby is safe and taken care of but other than that tell your
daughter that you cannot support her in her life choices right now. If
she truly wants to make her own decisions then she needs to take
responsibilty for her life in all other ways too.
She cannot expect you to make Dr appointments for her and other things
but then totally just ignore all the things in her life that are bad
for her. You are her mother and you cannot sit by and watch
her "destroy" her life. tell her this in a calm yet loving manner.
She has made her choices and you do not agree but ut is her life. Like
I said, because of the baby you don't want to completely sepersate
yourself from her now but you can help with the babies things without
helping her or her loser BF. Do not give her money, but possibly buy
her some groceries, diapers, formula, baby clothes.
this may help alleviate some of your guilt over not doing as much for
your daughter too.
A good mother/daughter relationship is based on respect and trust. My
Mom and I had neither for years but finally we sat down and talked and
let each other know exactly what we wanted and expected from each other
and wether we could provide these things. We have not always agreed or
even liked each other but now we talk much more openly and we can agree
to disagree. I pray that some day you will have a relationship like
that with your daughter but until then hang in there. I was 23 and
pregnant with my 3rd child before I realized that my mom was my mom for
better or worse and I better get things straight with her while I still
could.
Don't know if this helped but I tried!! Hang in there, if you even
raised her to be slightly responsible, know that her conscience is
eating at her right now and your words are being heard even though she
doesn't like them.
--
Have you Hugged Your Herps Today?
Steve
>
> that was a little harsh Steve. However, I must say (in Steve's defense),
> those words are probably the exact thoughts going thru DD's head.
> Mom to Lauryn (8) and Angela (5)
Yup! And that's why such idiotic parenting doesn't work,
and why we need to abide our children's desires and freedom!!
Steve
Steve
>
> Problem children are not always a product of problem parents! Shame on you!
---------------------------
YOURS is the shameful BULLSHIT!!
They most certainly ARE a result of their parents, even if you're too
blind to see that repressive restrictive authoritarian abusive assholes
breed hurting kids!! Otherwise where would YOU say they come from, maybe
they "jus growed, like Topsy"???
The biggest stupidest complaint of the age is that: "Gee, I did
everything I was 'supposed to' to my kids, I beat them and yelled at
them and told them they were dumb and tried to run their life for them,
now why don't they like me, and why don't they know how to live!!"
This is a fault of the shit we tell parents to do, it's all wrong!
Steve
Steve
I saw it being done apparently all around me by a couple blocks full of
amazingly vicious people who did the most startlingly stupid things to
their kids, while my parents simply apologized for their confusing
behavior to me!! Then later I saw how these kids grew up, or didn't,
and how we three kids did fine. We lived in that rural neighborhood for
16 years.
Steve
Steve
>
> > Unlikely. Drug dealers don't like collecting merchandise, not at ALL!!
> >
>
> Steve...that isn't true. Drug dealers collect everything! Baby formula, Xmas
> gifts, tools, food (meat is a big thing), some people go to the food bank and
> sell the food to their supplier. It isn't a movie, it is real life and it
> happens. I don't live in the US but not feeding your child can matter to the
> social services especially if there a relative willing to provide a home for
> the child.
Okay, let's clarify. Hypes collect stuff to sell to support their habit,
but dealers always want cash!! Try to buy heroin with Xmas tree
ornaments, if you don't believe me.
> > Imaginary! Your verbiage "providing a vehicle" is not even a legal
> > description of anything, let alone a crime!! If they were old enough to
> > own it they are old enough to insure it or get it towed away! If I rent
> > a car and get a ticket does Hertz get involved? Nope. Just the driver.
> > Steve
>
> I think I have read somewhere lately that some states are thinking about
> making parents responsible for their children. Not sure it applies in this
> case because I am sure it is only minor children.
------------------------------
Parents ARE responsible for their kids, but not their adult children or
older children living outside the home with other adults. In any case,
"providing a vehicle" for someone doesn't make you responsible for their
debts.
Steve
Steve
>
> Steve, floridanewbie was not talking about "crime", that is, criminal
> liability. He was talking about civil liability. There is a well
> established legal theory of "vicarious liability", which means that
> sometimes, the person who temporarily gives a vehicle to someone else
> is legally responsible for the damage that the other person inflicts.
------------------------------
Not if they give it to them.
> One more stupid post from you and you will be killfiled.
-----------------------------
Go for it, you ignorant buttfuck, go blind yourself!!
Steve
Steve
>
> People sometimes forget the difference between an explanation and an
> excuse. Past experiences often explain current behavior, but rarely
> excuse it.
BINGO!! The blame game only identifies the person who might be the first
evidence of something wrong. That does NOT mean that it is best
corrected inside them, they are what is called in psychotherapy, the
"identified patient". The family nexus has produced the effect and can
best reverse it, if it can understand that the child produced is what
THEY produced and the child's behavior comes from them!!
Now sure, a child become an adult and independent may be forced to
outgrow or outlive their abuse alone in order to grow, but it does NOT
mean that the blame was not actually their parents, AND it does NOT mean
that the best way isn't to correct their parents' responses and reunite
the family to correct its abuses of the identified patient.
The theory of blame in criminology just means that to stop a source of
crime you locate an individual who performs it and isolate them, it
doesn't mean that criminals are the ones who MAKE criminals!! If we want
to stop having to lock up millions we have to go after the SOURCES of
these people in their FAMILIES!! The parental abuses by these criminal
creches will someday, when we are more perceptive, be well-known and
punishable crimes!!
> Consider a duck. It encounters the air, water and soil.
> It benefits from each, is hindered by none, harms nothing.
> They are cute, too. Be a duck!
> Old Slovakian Saying
--------------------
Wanna buy a duck?
Steve
Steve
>
> Hi. Sorry to hear about your troubles. Sounds pretty horrific. I have
> some ideas of what I *think* I might do. (I am not sure you can know
> until you are in it.)
>
> 1. I would reconcile myself to the idea of her calling me and thinking
> of me as an uncaring person. I would attempt to make myself not care
> that she sees me that way.
You have just counseled her to be as cold and vicious as she's always
been, and in the same manner that CAUSED this in her daughter!!
Congrats!
Steve
Steve
>
> Steve <rst...@armory.com> wrote:
> * She is drawn to him EVEN *IF* she hates her b/f's guts, because somehow
> * YOU have been enough of a prick about her feelings and her desires that
> * she feels she'd RATHER live in THAT SHITHOLE with THAT ASSHOLE instead
> * of being with somebody with whom she can be on good terms with YOU!!
> * Think about it!! Kids do EVERYTHING for a reason, even if they can't
> * write it all down for you!! YOU have MADE her do this because she can't
> * handle YOU!! You made her weak by not supporting her doing things her
> * way when she was a lot younger!! If you were nice to her and she KNEW
> * she could handle living with you then she leaving him would be EASY!!
>
> Hey Steve, how do you know all this?
>
>
> Why are you giving answers that are more or less groundless without
> asking questions first?
When you've seen all parts of an elephant and know it is one thing and
an elephant, then when you see the trunk again you have pretty much
clinched it!!
Want me to do your math, physics, or teach you electronics too??
Steve
Steve
>
> Steve just makes things up. He keeps calling them kids. They aren't
> kids anymore. They are adults and parents. Oh Oh I said parents.
> According to Steve they can be hated now by their baby because they
> are parents and are going to screw up the baby's life!
YOU'RE the biggest source of what that baby is going through currently,
which may be not a lot that he/she will ever remember. If she is to
blame for the baby, then you're surely to blame for both of them!
All thoughts are merely "made up" because people lie to each other.
But after seeing enough idiots just like you after 50 years sure helps
me to know when I'm looking at another!!
Steve
Steve
>
> You make two suppositions here Steve.
>
> One was that the mom was controlling.
-------------------------
It's obvious from what she says. Are you blind???
> Another is that the controlling parents imminently make their child
> incapable of living.
-------------------------
People who wind up with kids who are hurting always wish to believe that
they couldn't possibly have caused that! But things and people ARE
CAUSED!! They are only trying to avoid the knowledge that their methods
are cruel and evil. They wish to believe their culture is right, even in
the face of evidence against that, so they try to postulate some random
cause for their now very hurting kids being as hurt as they behave. Down
through the ages they have postulated demonology, bad-seed theories,
class theories, racial theories. All to avoid the truth!
> None of these assumptions seems to have a basis in reality.
-------------------------
Not to people with something to lose if they are true!
Learn to live in the real world!
Steve
Freaked Out Mom
>Kimberley Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Problem children are not always a product of problem parents! Shame on you!
>---------------------------
>YOURS is the shameful BULLSHIT!!
>
>They most certainly ARE a result of their parents, even if you're too
>blind to see that repressive restrictive authoritarian abusive assholes
>breed hurting kids!! Otherwise where would YOU say they come from, maybe
>they "jus growed, like Topsy"???
My parenting style isn't auhtoritarian. It is probably too permissive.
>
>The biggest stupidest complaint of the age is that: "Gee, I did
>everything I was 'supposed to' to my kids, I beat them and yelled at
>them and told them they were dumb and tried to run their life for them,
>now why don't they like me, and why don't they know how to live!!"
I have never called my kids names. I don't yell at them. I never hit
them.
Steve
>
> We're assuming here that Mom is telling the whole story. Lesa just presented
> us with what might be the daughter's story but I'm more inclined to believe the
> Mom. Hopefully Mom isn't over reacting to her dd's bf. Should the young
> couple stay together it would hurt the mother/dd relationship. But I would
> like to assume that Mom has a level head and knows best.
>
> Mom to Lauryn (8) and Angela (5)
Mom's protestations remind me of a small child who breaks something and
then insists that she didn't and wants it to be all better anyway.
Steve
Kimberley Kennedy
Steve wrote:
> Kimberley Kennedy wrote:
> >
> > > Unlikely. Drug dealers don't like collecting merchandise, not at ALL!!
> > >
> >
> > Steve...that isn't true. Drug dealers collect everything! Baby formula, Xmas
> > gifts, tools, food (meat is a big thing), some people go to the food bank and
> > sell the food to their supplier. It isn't a movie, it is real life and it
> > happens. I don't live in the US but not feeding your child can matter to the
> > social services especially if there a relative willing to provide a home for
> > the child.
> ---------------------
> Okay, let's clarify. Hypes collect stuff to sell to support their habit,
> but dealers always want cash!! Try to buy heroin with Xmas tree
> ornaments, if you don't believe me.
I beg to differ but I KNOW that dealers will take just about anything to keep a
habit going....they really don't want the users to go somewhere else when they have
cash (usually at the end of month). They will give little bits here and there for
things such as Xmas ornaments. If they refused to give out when money is tight they
may lose an addict which is not a good 'business' practice.
Freaked Out Mom
>Sourdough wrote:
>>
>> People sometimes forget the difference between an explanation and an
>> excuse. Past experiences often explain current behavior, but rarely
>> excuse it.
>---------------------
>BINGO!! The blame game only identifies the person who might be the first
>evidence of something wrong. That does NOT mean that it is best
>corrected inside them, they are what is called in psychotherapy, the
>"identified patient". The family nexus has produced the effect and can
>best reverse it, if it can understand that the child produced is what
>THEY produced and the child's behavior comes from them!!
>
>Now sure, a child become an adult and independent may be forced to
>outgrow or outlive their abuse alone in order to grow, but it does NOT
>mean that the blame was not actually their parents, AND it does NOT mean
>that the best way isn't to correct their parents' responses and reunite
>the family to correct its abuses of the identified patient.
>
>The theory of blame in criminology just means that to stop a source of
>crime you locate an individual who performs it and isolate them, it
>doesn't mean that criminals are the ones who MAKE criminals!! If we want
>to stop having to lock up millions we have to go after the SOURCES of
>these people in their FAMILIES!! The parental abuses by these criminal
>creches will someday, when we are more perceptive, be well-known and
>punishable crimes!!
>
>
Ok Steve, enough of your ranting about how rotten most parents are.
What exactly do you think I should do to fix the problem? Be
specific. I want a concrete solution for mending the relationship with
my daughter. You seem to have all the answers. Be specific. No vague
answers.
Freaked Out Mom
Damn then my parents must have been total fuck ups too and their
parents and their parents. Gee I wonder why I don't hate my parents
like you say I am supposed to.
Steve
>
> This topic really has me curious because I have 2 young daughters.
>
> wash dishes daily, scrub a toilet, plant a garden, roast a turkey, get dirt
> under her nails?
That doesn't even matter. Did she interact with her daughter on the
basis of love or on the basis of punitive paranoia!???
> Did you ever take her toys away? For good...not just hide them in a closet.
> Was she ever grounded for more than 5 minutes? Was she ever told to pay you
> back for the money you spent on lessons because she missed one for bad
> behavior?
-----------------------------
None of those things do other than hurt a child's self-esteem and they
breed a desire for revenge against parents and others.
> I'm not trying to be judgemental. I'd really like to know because in my
> opinion my children are spoiled. I seem to be back tracking now trying to
> take away a lot of material things that I have given them and replace them with
> more valuable commodities like appreciation and respect. It may be a few more
> years before I find out if my efforts are working.
>
>
> Sherri in Japan
> Mom to Lauryn (8) and Angela (5)
---------------------
That's paranoia. It is not even possible to spoil a loved child, and
impossible to do anything BUT spoil an unloved child. It is possible to
RUIN a child the way she has done, but the supposed "spoiling" that some
imagine to exist is simply a feature of what a child settles for when
they can't get your love, they settle for Stuff. It's desperation is
all, and you can easily get them to switch to love instead of stuff,
just by offering yourself and your unconditional love!
Steve
Steve
>
> I bought her a beautiful Bach Strat silver trumpet when she was in
> marching band. $1600 for a trumpet. She didn't have it a week and
> she let it get stolen.
How VICIOUS!!! You HATE her in your every WORD!!! You have NO reason tio
think she MADE it get stolen!! You've been doing this paranoid crap to
her all her LIFE!! That's what DOES this kind of crap to kids!!
> Our insurance paid for most of it but we wanted her to pay back $200
> of it. She never did.
>
> I let her drive my car one time and she came back late and came in and
> told me a big story how someone had hit her in the parking lot at the
> mall and busted the outside mirror. I strongly suspected she was
> lying so we drove over there and there was no glass. Later on she was
> on the phone in her room and I overheard her telling her friend that
> she was over some boys house and she backed out of the driveway and
> busted the mirror. I confronted her and said I overheard what she
> said and FINALLY she admitted it. It cost me $250 to get it replaced
> as it is one of the power mirrors. She was supposed to pay for it and
> never did.
--------------------------------
She knew you couldn't possibly accept her accidents, and so she had to
invent one that might cause you to treat her properly when she didn't
WANT to hurt your mirror at all!!
You're fucking paranoid and mercenary, lady!!!
Steve
Steve
>
> Ok I am not a mother of a teenager yet (thank god) but I was a slightly
> rebellious head strong teen who thought she knew everything. This was
> not that awfully long ago either. thankfully when I had a baby I grew
> up quite abit but it didn't change my relationships much.
> What I wanted to say was that the best thing you can do is to make sure
> the baby is safe and taken care of but other than that tell your
You were clearly in much better shape than this woman's daughter. Her
daughter is nearly crippled by her attachment to her mother and her
mother's abuse of her love. Try to fathom that we are not all ready for
independence and "merely have to take charge" as you have. Some victims
of parental mind control are truly damaged and won't get loose of that
for a long time!
Steve
Sourdough
personally responsible for the choices that we make. Blaming others is
the same as excusing the behavior.
If I read the following paragraph correctly, you have contradicted
yourself. You really ought to decide which side of this issue you want
to take.
--
"Steve" <rst...@armory.com> wrote in message
news:39C6A5...@armory.com...
Steve
>
> Hi FOM and Steve,
>
> Steve wrote:
>
> > Freaked Out Mom wrote:
> > >
> > > jerks so I am a jerk. Age 25 Age 35? 45? Whatever happened to free
> > > choice and personal responsibilty?
> > >
> > > Freaked Out Mom
> > --------------------------
> > It never develops in kids whose parents try to control them and run
> > their lives for them, and all that kid can think of is trying to hurt
> > you back!!
>
>
> Of course, we consist of BOTH nature and nurture, and the two interact to
> produce the result, so telling the difference is extremely difficult.
>
> Some traumas you never get over though: their have been good studies done
> with animals (particularly primates) that demonstrate similar emotional
> disturbance.
>
> What we do with our children is vitally important, but it has to do with
> who they are too,
>
> Regards,
>
> Ian
--------------------
But the shape of our genetic proclivities never includes specific
behaviors, and thus the part we CAN mold is almost completely moldable,
but that only works by LOVE causing the desire in another to be in a
loving close relationship with you. Punishment and mind control and
denigration, which is what this mother puts her daughter through, will
NOT ever cause this Love!! The mother has to give up her abusive ways
and be humbled by what she has wrought in her daughter, and ask
forgiveness and bare all blame, and then the daughter can relax and
relearn love for her and also vanquish her own pain of so many years!!
Steve
Steve
>
> >They most certainly ARE a result of their parents, even if you're too
> >blind to see that repressive restrictive authoritarian abusive assholes
> >breed hurting kids!! Otherwise where would YOU say they come from, maybe
> >they "jus growed, like Topsy"???
>
> My parenting style isn't auhtoritarian. It is probably too permissive.
You're trying to excuse your abuse and even cleave to it further to
protect yourself from blame, when your cruelty was at fault. You're
pretending that what you did to her wasn't BAD ENOUGH, and you still
have hate in your heart, for which you should be desperately ashamed!!
That's the only way you will ever right this situation, by taking blame
for it and asking HER what you must be to be her mother the RIGHT way!!
She may ask for foolish things at first, but then being touched by you
she will finally dig in deep and ask you to love her!!! It will be at
THAT time that you have to learn to respond, without ANY judgement,
without ANY blame or "I told you so's"!! You will HAVE to give up on
having the last word, because in the realworld sense, she will have it
because you will likely die first, and that is the way of things!! If
you can submit to being loved and loving you can reverse all this, but
few EVER have the gumption to learn this and then do it!!
I can submit my life and all I own to my son and/or daughter and share
their lot their way if they want me too, and it doesn't frighten me to
serve them because they love me and I love them and our lots are tied
together forever by their births!! Now, what's WRONG with you that you
cannot!! Didn't get enough from YOUR mother???? Probably.
Steve
Steve
>
> > Okay, let's clarify. Hypes collect stuff to sell to support their habit,
> > but dealers always want cash!! Try to buy heroin with Xmas tree
> > ornaments, if you don't believe me.
>
> I beg to differ but I KNOW that dealers will take just about anything to keep a
> habit going....they really don't want the users to go somewhere else when they have
> cash (usually at the end of month). They will give little bits here and there for
> things such as Xmas ornaments. If they refused to give out when money is tight they
> may lose an addict which is not a good 'business' practice.
Hypes/thieves get busted with apartments full of stolen goods they are
always trying to sell to support their habit. But you NEVER see drug
dealers get busted with anything than huge rolls of cash!! Get real!
I grew up around a bunch of them!
Steve
Steve
>
> Ok Steve, enough of your ranting about how rotten most parents are.
>
> What exactly do you think I should do to fix the problem? Be
> specific. I want a concrete solution for mending the relationship with
> my daughter. You seem to have all the answers. Be specific. No vague
> answers.
Go live with her and help her, HER way, and keep your mouth shut except
to offer nothing but help. Do what she says until she believes that you
love her. Sleep on the floor. You'll find out the rest in due time.
Steve
Steve
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:38:41 -0700, Steve <rst...@armory.com> wrote:
>
> >Freaked Out Mom wrote:
> >>
Some can't stand to admit they were abused, so they JOIN their abuser
and learn from them like a Stockholm hijack victim how to bully people
like they do, and then they do that to their kids as well. They think of
it as "growing up", but it's a distortion.
Steve
Steve
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Steve wrote:
>
> > YOU'RE the biggest source of what that baby is going through currently,
> > which may be not a lot that he/she will ever remember. If she is to
> > blame for the baby, then you're surely to blame for both of them!
>
> but surely great, great grandparents are less relevant than great parents,
> etc.?
>
> The genetic legacy is there, but the parenting can be improved with any
> generation,
>
> Regards,
>
> Ian
----------------------
Everybody who was abused gets to blame,
and everybody who abused has to make amends as well.
It's all true!
Steve
Steve
>
> I think that you misunderstood my point. It was about each person being
> personally responsible for the choices that we make. Blaming others is
> the same as excusing the behavior.
Others CAN do so much damage to you when you're young that you are
totally mixed-up and confused. They are to blame. If you go on to hurt
other little people then you're going to be blamed as well, get used to
it. And the only way out is for each abuser to admit blame and make
amends, and for each person who was abused to identify his abuser and
blame them, instead of passing that abuse to their kids by thinking that
it's some kind of twisted version of "right and correct". Each must
identify the other and identify themselves as abused and abuser before
it is over!
> If I read the following paragraph correctly, you have contradicted
> yourself. You really ought to decide which side of this issue you want
> to take.
-------------------
Then you didn't read it correctly. Phrase your inquiries as questions,
you'll learn more.
Steve
Steve
>
> steve, you're not helping :)
> Sherri in Japan
-------------------
No, YOU'RE not helping!
Steve
Steve
>
> Try some logic. You are given 12 coins. They all look, smell, and taste
> exactly the same. One and only one is counterfeit. That one coin has
> weight that is different from others, but you do not know if it is
> heavier or lighter. The remaining 11 coins weigh the same. You are given
> balance scales. Your task is to find out a method of weighting that
> would tell you which coin is counterfeit, in no more than three weightings.
-----------------
Go away, that's so ancient I'd be embarrassed to bother to answer it!!!
Steve
Steve
>
> >> sometimes, the person who temporarily gives a vehicle to someone else
> >> is legally responsible for the damage that the other person inflicts.
> >------------------------------
> >Not if they give it to them.
>
----------------------------
Giving the law calls selling, to which no liability attaches.
Don't be stupid!
Steve
Steve
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Steve wrote:
>
> > behaviors, and thus the part we CAN mold is almost completely moldable,
> > but that only works by LOVE causing the desire in another to be in a
> > loving close relationship with you.
>
> proclivities never includ(ing) specific behaviours." I recently argued the
> tremendous importance of nurture/socialisation in regard to sexist conditioning
> in another thread.
>
> However, I do believe that we are born with a lot of what and who we are and
> will be, even to the rudiments of our individual personalities (sex aside).
>
> As far as specific behaviours go, we certainly exhibit instincts for such
> things as breast-feeding and walking, which we are genetically programmed to
> do, but also increasingly individual responses, such as smiling and crying,
> according to who we are (as well as how we are treated and what we are exposed
> to). Most alarming of all, we come to increasingly resemble our parents as we
> grow older, even those with whom we don't have contact,
>
> Regards,
>
> Ian
------------------
Those are NOT "specific behaviors", which would be behaviors containing
specific psychologically meaningful content.
Steve
Steve
>
> Hi FOM,
>
> Freaked Out Mom wrote:
>
> > I try not to care and when she is going off on me with her laundry
> > list of my faults and crimes against her, I just sit there and say I
> > am sorry over and over. I never say anything back. I just keep
> > apologizing and then I go home and cry and cry because she hurt me so
> > bad. After her rants I feel like gum on the bottom of a shoe.
>
> Why doesn't this pacify her? What more could she ask? Most of us never get
> anything like an apology from our parents for anything!
--------------------------
Someone hitting you and then apologizing, and then hitting you again
begins to pall by comparison to them to simply stopp hitting you!!
The first apology doesn't do it, but that's NOT a reason to stop
apologizing. The mother just wants to get off easy!
> Still, I know of a similar case where an adult child holds grudges against a
> parent, where the parent is apologetic. Letting go of this will be a mark of
> maturity and the best thing for her too, but she may just be too young to see
> it. In time, with her own child growing up, she may begin to reassess what
> it's like being a parent, from the other side, as many of us do,
>
> Regards,
>
> Ian
----------------------------
It can take as long as they were abused to get over it!!
Steve
Steve
>
> * My INTP wife would enjoy this puzzle,
>
> most likely.
>
> My INFP friend actually solved this problem,with some very little help
> on my part. So not all is lost for you F types.
--------------------------
For being 1% of the population, the INTP's on the NET are surely more
prominent! I'm one as well! ;->
Steve
Steve
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 02:07:52 -0700, Steve <rst...@armory.com> wrote:
>
> >Tamara wrote:
> >>
> >> That's rediculous. People *can* be effected by their upbringing, but
> >> that doesn't necessarily make them who they are. At some point you have
> >> to grow up and be responsible for yourself. Saying "I'm this way because
> >> it's what my parents made me" is BULLSHIT.
> >>
> >> Tamara
> >-------------------------------
> >Nope, they are precisely what they were made to be. They do not get
> >over having been mistreated for a VERY long time in life. Your
> >confidence comes from being far luckier than she was, possibly not
> >emotionally abused nearly as badly, and so you imagine everyone
> >simply IS the way you are, and it is just not true!!
> >Steve
>
> Well, I had a pretty shitty upbringing, and lots of hard times, but I
> can't go around blaming my parents NOW for the ADULT I am!!!
--------------------
You can, and fairly, but unless they are willing to help you you are
stuck making the best of it. It doesn't mean you'll be able to!!
> I agree with Tamara, sooner or later you have to get past the past.
> Get a life, get with the program or whatever. It doesn't matter how
> you got the way you are, it matters how you live the rest of your
> life.
---------------------------------
Lovely sentiment, and everybody wants to, but not everybody can!!
People under-estimate the degree to which they can be damaged,
especially if they've lucked out and weren't damaged!! They do
this because they don't want to think about how bad off they COULD
be!! Understandable, but incorrect. Someone can look okay and be
SO emotionally damaged that it seems weird to more normal folks,
but they aren't just pretending or something, they really don't know
how to do anything else! Adults who have ALREADY been raised can shrug
things off because they know better, but a little kid doesn't know
doodley, so he is forced to live that situation as his only example!
> Blaming the parents for everything is just a huge copout.
>
> Kim
-----------------------------
Now you can quote your lifestory all day long and it doesn't matter.
The same hit to the head that one person DIES from, another wakes
up from in a few minutes with no neurological problems. And that's
NOT because of some "inner strength" but it is purely random!!
Well, it's the same with psychological damage. People don't want to
think they could be so traumatized, especially when they are young,
but lots of people are!! People want to pretend others can just "snap
out of it", or "come off it", because those people's situation is
disturbing to them!! But they are being ignorant.
Steve
Kimberlee
1. Is she a drug user? If so, is she a recreational user or an
addict? If she's a user...she may one day have to choose between her
drug and her child. Now's not a bad time to plant that seed and let it
sprout (if the conversation comes up where you can bring this point out
without totally alienating her).
2. Is he really a toad disguised as prince charming?
3. The rabbit's dead...because of starvation, not neglect. Many folks
get too busy to give their pets the attention they need; most people do
give their pets daily food and water. So...it would fit, IMO, that if
they didn't feed the rabbit, a call to CPS would be appropriate--just
kinda' shows that their priorities are a little skewed, and a few
classes on the needs of babies might just be the thing your daughter
needs right now.
4. Don't demand change. If it happens, it's gonna' be because your
daughter decides to make it happen. Be there for her; let her know how
you feel and what your fears are (I'm afraid you're in a bad
situation--I'm afraid that you won't have grocery money for the
baby--whatever).
5. Be there. Don't take on her responsibility. But when she's ready
to make change, encourage her. Believe her. Help her. Encourage her
(that's said twice, because it's the most important part!).
~Kimberlee
Freaked Out Mom wrote:
>
> I am a regular poster on both of these groups but I wish to post
> anonymously this time.
>
> My dd and her boyfriend live together. They have a baby together.
>
> Today my dd calls me up crying because her pet rabbit died. She told
> me that it hadn't had any food for two weeks. The deadbeat she lives
> with is a drug addict and is lazy and won't work so they free load off
> of people and have pawned anything of value they own. She has a job
> she got a few weeks ago.
>
> How could my daughter just let her pet rabbit starve to death? I just
> can't get my mind to comprehend it.
>
> I thought I knew my daughter but I guess I really don't.
>
> Over the weekend she has had me and her grandparents and her best
> friend all jumping through hoops trying to help her get out of the
> situation with the bf. She said she was going to move in with the
> Grandparents and I offered to pay for her college. Her best friends
> Mom teaches CNA courses and offered her a spot on the next course and
> a job. The best friend offered to watch the baby for free. My ex
> offered to buy her a car.
>
> I get up there and she wants to bury the rabbit in the back yard. She
> didn't tell me that the boyfriend was coming. I had told her a few
> months ago I didn't want him around me as he cussed me out and I just
> don't want to be around a drug addict. They both get in the back seat
> and I politely said I didn't want him to go. I wanted to blow up at
> him but I didn't. Then they get out of the car and take the baby back
> inside. She comes out and starts laying me out saying I am
> interfering with her life. Then 2 minutes later she was complaining
> that I failed to make a counselor appointment for her. So I just
> couldn't win. She wants to be independant and do her own thing. When
> I try to help her, she says I am butting in but when I back off she
> says I don't care about her. She went on about her friend and
> Grandparents butting in her life. She says I am never there for her.
> She complains that I dont come over. I don't feel welcome there as her
> bf is always rude to me. Plus I don't feel safe going to the
> neighborhood where she lives. She was complaining that her
> Grandparents never came to visit her. Her grandparents live a 2 hour
> drive away and they are in their 70s and have serious health problems.
> She just went on and one and by the time she was done, I felt about
> 1/2 inch tall. Here everyone was trying to help her get out of a bad
> situation and she turns around and gives all of us a kick in the ass.
>
> I have said I wasn't going to help her anymore as she has done this
> before and I am so soft hearted that I keep trying to help her. I am
> wondering if I should just let her live her consequences no matter how
> bad they are. I can't get it out of my mind that she let her pet
> rabbit starve to death. I am hoping that she wouldn't allow her baby
> to starve to death. The past couple of weeks they have been going to
> neighbors bumming baby formula or the baby wouldn' have had anything
> to eat either.
>
> Freaked Mom
--
"An eye for an eye, and the whole world would be blind." (Kahlil Gibran)
Ian
Thanks, that was all very interesting and pretty revealing about your daughter
and how things have been up until now.
Freaked Out Mom wrote:
> I guess I should try harder to just let go. He is supposed to be a
> man and she is supposed to be a grown woman with a baby to care for.
> They need to start taking responsibility for themselves and suffering
> the consequences of their actions.
Yes, easier said than done. However, maybe your post should be from "Freaked Out
Grandma," as the baby is of primary concern.
Sounds like your daughter was born like she is, with a wild streak in her. How
old is she now? Does she have any older siblings?
As far as growing up goes, she may never do it, if she is a permanently immature
person, but there are some promising signs, such as the fact that she is
working. As far as drugs go, acid and pot are reasonably manageable and possible
to give up, but it sounds as though her boyfriend and friends are into heavier
stuff, based on their theft activities (which doesn't mean that she is).
I'm reading a particular Myers-Brigss Personality Type for her (and won't say
here in case I offend anyone), but an extreme example of it. She sounds very in
the moment, caught up with fun, loyalty to the most ephemeral friends and needing
constant excitement. There are ways she can find a more responsible role and
still enjoy these necessary parts of who she is. Probably, she can be a caring
person in the right circumstances and when she is feeling good about herself, but
not someone you could ever count on or who would feel obliged to care.
The trouble with children is that you have to love them for who they are, and
that can be pretty difficult. You don't have to like the company they seek
though,
Best regards,
Ian
Ian
Your post was to Freaked Out Mom was pretty over the top and insulting! You
do have some valid points which, if stated more moderately might get
through.
Mostly, I think you may have a point in the sense that there is a bad
interaction going on here, with two very different personalities rubbing
each other completely the wrong way. Possibly, more responsibility for this
daughter sooner might have helped, but I see examples of that in FOM's post,
so not necessarily,
Regards,
Ian
Steve wrote:
> GEE, for having done all that FOR her, you'd think from her response
> that you'd done all that *TO* her!!! Maybe you DID!! Maybe you tried to
> live THROUGH her!! Maybe that's why she's pissed! That list of
> activities looks like somebody who is neurotically fixated on how much
> YOU get out of it!!!!!!!
>
> With my kids I never actually ever even COUNTED, myself!!
>
> > Her Grandmother was in
> > the hospital very sick and I went down there and took her with me so I
> > could help my Parents and she ran away down there. She asked me for
> > money to walk over to the store for candy and she didn't come back.
> > The next day my Dad calls me at work and said he saw her sleeping in
> > the porch swing but when he went to open the door, she ran off. My
> > boss told me if I left, I would be fired so I said this job is great
> > but my daughter comes first and I left to go hunt for her.
> >
> > Later on I found out she had been doing drugs, acid and pot. She then
> > wanted to go into therapy so I took her to a therapise and she got off
> > the drugs. I asked her why she ran away all the time and she told me
> > because it was fun and she didn't have to go to school.
> ----------------------------------
> Kids want to experiment, mine did too, but they never needed to worry or
> even be concerned about how I'd take it. They knew they could get the
> truth from me and figure I would express concern, support, love, and
> help, and that having tried all that myself that I would completely
> understand, and I DID!! And then they got bored with it.
>
>
> > This girl has set fire to my home,
> -----------------------
> Either she HATES you the, your fault, or else it was an accident and not
> her fault!
>
> You should really stop talking trash about your own kid just to get your
> way, and you should stop lying and trying to vainly enlist some kind of
> support from the local idiot parents contingent!!
>
> > had some of her trashy friends rob
> > my house while I was gone taking her little brother to speech therapy.
> > She did severalthousands of dollars of damage to the house. Her trashy
> > friends would come over and she would want to leave and I would say no
> > not on a school night and she would get pissed off and started kicking
> > holes in the walls.
> ---------------------------------
> Gee, I wonder why she'd hate your guts, eh??
> Have you NEVER asked that question???
>
>
> > I fell down the stairs carrying a load of laundry and tore a ligament
> > in my ankle. She ran off while I was at the doctor getting an air
> > cast. Someone called me a day later and told me she was outside
> > walking around. I saw her and took off after her with my cast on. She
> > was standing there taunting me and laughing at me becase I couldn't
> > catch her. It broke my heart seeing how cruel she was.
> ------------------------------
> Don't you EVER wonder what cruelty of yours she was paying BACK!!!???
> Your problem is that everything is always about YOU!!!
>
>
> > This year my dog had died and I was devestated.
> -----------------
> Love that dog. (Hate your daughter, but love that dog!)
>
> > He was important to
> > me. Two days before that, she had jumped out her bedroom window to go
> > lay around with the guy she has the baby with now.
> -------------------------
> You mean to have sex, and thus fulfill her normal drives and desires.
> If anybody trashed YOU as somekind of "lay around" you'd be offended!!
> Then again you're probably frigid anyway!
>
> > When I foudn the
> > dog dead, I called over to that boys parents and left a message for
> > her to call me that it was an emergency.
> --------------------
> What emergency, the dog was DEAD???
>
> > She called and I told her
> > what happened and asked her to come home as I needed her to be there.
> > She gave me a quick I am sorry about the dog but she never showed up.
> > By that time I gave up running after her and chasing her down. When
> > she ran off like that, I just let it go. 3 days later she FINALLY
> > decides to come home. Why? Because it was her birthday and she came
> > home expecting me to take her shopping and buy her a bunch of
> > expensive gifts.
> -----------------------
> Or she might have figured that date MIGHT remind you that you were
> supposed to have a loving relationship with her, but when she saw how
> you reacted she just settled for "stuff". And you're SO sure all she
> wanted you for was your money!!
>
> GOD lady, if I'd EVER felt like that I'd have NEVER EVER have had
> kids!!!
>
> > I had told her a few months before, that I would
> > take her shopping for her birthday. I guess I had just had it of her
> > inconsiderate behavior and I told her I wasn't taking her shopping
> > period. I got her nothing for her birthday. First time I had ever
> > down anything like that. She had some nerve showing up after runnin
> > away for almost a week expecting me to fork out a grand or so.
> -----------------------------
> A grand? For a birthday?? God, why? You two wackos must be loaded!!
> No wonder you're screwed up!! You've got too fucking much MONEY, and
> because of that you don't NEED ANYBODY, do you?? Or is that only what
> it SEEMS like to you most of the time!!??
>
>
> > She used to use drugs. I have no idea if she is now. There is no way
> > in hell I would let them move in to my home. So he can lay around and
> > freeload off of me. I live in a very nice neighborhood and I don't
> > want a bunch of crack smokers around me. He is a man now. He needs to
> > start acting like one.
> -----------------------------------
> Gee, how lovely, such a nice home, with nobody home....
>
>
> > I don't know. If she is on drugs too, there isnt much I can do about
> > it.
> --------------------------
> Want to bet?? Never ever considered love, have you, just "stuff".
>
>
> > I guess I should try harder to just let go. He is supposed to be a
> > man and she is supposed to be a grown woman with a baby to care for.
> > They need to start taking responsibility for themselves and suffering
> > the consequences of their actions.
> >
> > Freaked Out Mom
> --------------------------------
> You've been trying to find excuses to get rid of her since she first got
> big and horny and wasn't your obediant fool anymore, and maybe you can
> finally convince yourself you've found enough reasons. Now you just have
> to convince yourself that you're not lying to yourself!!
>
> But you can't fool me, or a lot of other people!
> Steve
Ian
Steve wrote:
Callai
Freaked Out Mom <freake...@frekedmom.com> wrote in message
news:39c639da...@news.alt.net...
> On 18 Sep 2000 14:27:13 GMT, ig...@algebra.com (Igor) wrote:
>
> >Holy shit! I know a child sort of like this, but a little bit better.
> >
> >What do you feel about your grandchild?
> >
>
> I love him!!! That is how I feel!
FOM,
You're in a hell of a situation, I feel for you.
I think Sourdough has given you the best advice in that you have to step
back from bailing your daughter out financially whilst still being available
emotionally. I don't think it matters too much how you all got to this state
(and I can't see the point of all the finger pointing and blame coming from
people who obviously DON'T have children).
Your daughter is very young and seems to have been irresponsible ever since
she had even partial control of her own activities. There aren't going to be
any miraculous changes to her behaviour in the short term and she may never
'grow up' into a responsible adult. However, the fact that she does have a
job is a good sign. Encourage her by keeping in close contact with her and
the baby and offering educational/emotional help rather than money or
babysitting or rides or cars. Offer to show her how to budget her income,
ask her what she wants from the next few years of her life and help her make
plans. Don't be her crutch any more. I know this will be very hard for you
but you can't keep being bounced around by this foolish young woman, it
doesn neither of you any good. You deserve to be treated with respect and
the fact that you are her mother does not entitle you daughter to pull and
push on you as if you were a puppet who exists only to do her bidding or be
her punching bag.
Once you've given her the benefit of your advice or given her a question to
think about, don't push, stand back a little and let her think about things
for a while. Your daughter hasn't been in the habit of thinking ahead at all
and it will take time for her to learn how NOT to live in the present
moment. Teach her (if she can learn) to recognise that there are always
consequences to her actions or inactions and they are her responsibility,
not yours and not her grandparents.
Keep an eye on the baby and if it looks like you have to call in the CPS
then do so, his saftey is the most important factor right now. He's young
enough now that as long as he's being fed and kept clean and given loving
contact with his parents he needs little else for the time being.
Later...well....
If you can, try to avoid conflicts with the BF, he knows he can play you and
your daughter against each other..."Divide and Conquer", you know? Don't
play his game.
Maybe she is still on drugs but even if she isn't if her BF is, she and the
baby will be affected by them.
Keep some distance so you can be more objective and take time to decide just
what would be the most appropriate and helpful (in the long term) reaction
from you whenever your daughter throws a crisis at you.
You're a strong woman so I think you can do this. :)
Best of luck,
Callai
Ian
Freaked Out Mom wrote:
> What exactly do you think I should do to fix the problem? Be
> specific. I want a concrete solution for mending the relationship with
> my daughter. You seem to have all the answers. Be specific. No vague
> answers.
My advice would be family counselling for all of you, as you're all part of
it.
I'm interested to see what Steve comes up with,
Regards,
Ian
Ian
Steve wrote:
> The biggest stupidest complaint of the age is that: "Gee, I did
> everything I was 'supposed to' to my kids, I beat them and yelled at
> them and told them they were dumb and tried to run their life for them,
> now why don't they like me, and why don't they know how to live!!"
With the best of possible intentions of course,
Regards,
Ian
Ian
Ian
Print this one out!
Best wishes,
Ian
Gale
freake...@frekedmom.com (Freaked Out Mom) wrote:
> I am a regular poster on both of these groups but I wish to post
> anonymously this time.
Freaked Mom,
I might recognize you, someone who helped me in the past.
I want to send you a confidential reply.
Please e-mail me.
--
Gale
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ian
Steve wrote:
> Igor wrote:
>
> > Why are you giving answers that are more or less groundless without
> > asking questions first?
> ----------------------------
> When you've seen all parts of an elephant and know it is one thing and
> an elephant, then when you see the trunk again you have pretty much
> clinched it!!
And you can tell if it's been in your fridge by the footprints in the butter,
Regards,
Ian
SRHami
Sherri in Japan
floridanewbie
>Igor wrote:
>>
>> Steve, floridanewbie was not talking about "crime", that is, criminal
>> liability. He was talking about civil liability. There is a well
>> established legal theory of "vicarious liability", which means that
>> sometimes, the person who temporarily gives a vehicle to someone else
>> is legally responsible for the damage that the other person inflicts.
>------------------------------
>Not if they give it to them.
I don't keep track of case references but you are WRONG ..
Not to mention you seem so very certain of yourself and what druggies
and dealers do I have to wonder if you ever read anything but comic
books or have lived in a major city.
>> One more stupid post from you and you will be killfiled.
>-----------------------------
>Go for it, you ignorant buttfuck, go blind yourself!!
>Steve
Yep, final confirmation nothing you write is worth reading ... you
must be a joy to live with ... fortunately I don't give a sh*t
Floridanewbie
floridanewbie
Out Mom) wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:30:47 GMT, florid...@hotmail.com
>(floridanewbie) wrote:
<snip>
>>Frankly I hope the original post was a troll to get things stirred up
>>... it is quite unusual to see a cross-post between APS and ASM.
>
>Florida, I am a regular poster to both groups but just wish to remain
>anon this time. I wish this whole nightmare was fiction.
I said I hoped this was a troll but from the get-go I had a strong
hunch who this might be. I am really sorry you have to be going
through this mess.
Floridanewbie
Ian
floridanewbie
Out Mom) wrote:
>On 18 Sep 2000 14:27:13 GMT, ig...@algebra.com (Igor) wrote:
>
>>Holy shit! I know a child sort of like this, but a little bit better.
>>
>>What do you feel about your grandchild?
>>
>
>I love him!!! That is how I feel!
I think you love your daughter too. Several people have suggested
ways to set some boundaries so that she knows you are not cutting her
off emotionally if she wants advice or just wants to talk. I wonder
if it is possible to get the others (grandparents, ex, even friends)
on board so she cannot play each of you off against the other.
Is there any chance she might agree to let you take care of the baby
while she tries to sort things out? This avoids CPS or a court
battle, relieves her of child care expenses and keeps the door open
for her hopeful return to a more sane and rational life.
Floridanewbie
Ian
Igor wrote:
> Try some logic. You are given 12 coins. They all look, smell, and taste
> exactly the same. One and only one is counterfeit. That one coin has
> weight that is different from others, but you do not know if it is
> heavier or lighter. The remaining 11 coins weigh the same. You are given
> balance scales. Your task is to find out a method of weighting that
> would tell you which coin is counterfeit, in no more than three weightings.
First off I'd start by sorting them into smaller bunches and weighing them
against each other to identify which pile the coin was in, but I haven't figured
out the best way yet.
My INTP wife would enjoy this puzzle,
Cheers,
Ian