> >Ward Gulvin opposed integration and wanted to create a religious haven for > >nudists seeking escape from a rapidly changing world.
> >To buy property, you had to be a nudist, and you had to be white.
> >Gulvin died in 1994, at 90, and his settlement of sugar-sand trails, > >wooden street signs and mobile homes fell into disrepair.
> >Tall grass swallowed pristine fields, roads became impassable and the > >three small lakes dried up, collecting bags of decaying garbage.
> >Squatters took over abandoned and burned-out buildings. Teenagers > >desecrated the woods with trash and broken beer bottles. Convicted sex > >offenders moved into the neighborhood without being monitored.
> >Martin said he would remove deed restrictions dating to the 1950s that > >prohibit blacks from owning property in the park and would clean up some > >of the condemned and abandoned structures.
> >He said sex offenders would be prohibited from Natura.
> >According to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Web site, four > >registered sex offenders, including two under state supervision, list > >addresses at Florida Naturist Park.
> Good catch!
> And they advertise in SocialFamilyNudism for naked children to be > brought there!!!!
> >Joe Gross, the county's assistant zoning and code compliance > >administrator, said there are six to 12 ongoing code violation cases at > >the park, primarily dealing with debris accumulation.
> >"Some of these properties have gone without attention for years," Gross > >said.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Show the "Advertisement" or shut up.
Besides which Family Nudism includes all of the Family not just the adults, or would you leave your baby home alone while you go to Glen Eden?
> >> >Ward Gulvin opposed integration and wanted to create a religious haven for > >> >nudists seeking escape from a rapidly changing world.
> >> >To buy property, you had to be a nudist, and you had to be white.
> >> >Gulvin died in 1994, at 90, and his settlement of sugar-sand trails, > >> >wooden street signs and mobile homes fell into disrepair.
> >> >Tall grass swallowed pristine fields, roads became impassable and the > >> >three small lakes dried up, collecting bags of decaying garbage.
> >> >Squatters took over abandoned and burned-out buildings. Teenagers > >> >desecrated the woods with trash and broken beer bottles. Convicted sex > >> >offenders moved into the neighborhood without being monitored.
> >> >Martin said he would remove deed restrictions dating to the 1950s that > >> >prohibit blacks from owning property in the park and would clean up some > >> >of the condemned and abandoned structures.
> >> >He said sex offenders would be prohibited from Natura.
> >> >According to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Web site, four > >> >registered sex offenders, including two under state supervision, list > >> >addresses at Florida Naturist Park.
> >> Good catch!
> >> And they advertise in SocialFamilyNudism for naked children to be > >> brought there!!!!
> >> >Joe Gross, the county's assistant zoning and code compliance > >> >administrator, said there are six to 12 ongoing code violation cases at > >> >the park, primarily dealing with debris accumulation.
> >> >"Some of these properties have gone without attention for years," Gross > >> >said.- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >Show the "Advertisement" or shut up.
> Removed it have you? > Poor Mike ,an olive branch from you isn't worth too much
Why would I remove anything that is not offensive?
> >Besides which Family Nudism includes all of the Family not just the > >adults, or would you leave your baby home alone while you go to Glen > >Eden?
> >Oh silly me, You aren't even a Nudist...
> Nudist sex offenders have no moral high ground.- Hide quoted text -
> >> >Ward Gulvin opposed integration and wanted to create a religious haven for > >> >nudists seeking escape from a rapidly changing world.
> >> >To buy property, you had to be a nudist, and you had to be white.
> >> >Gulvin died in 1994, at 90, and his settlement of sugar-sand trails, > >> >wooden street signs and mobile homes fell into disrepair.
> >> >Tall grass swallowed pristine fields, roads became impassable and the > >> >three small lakes dried up, collecting bags of decaying garbage.
> >> >Squatters took over abandoned and burned-out buildings. Teenagers > >> >desecrated the woods with trash and broken beer bottles. Convicted sex > >> >offenders moved into the neighborhood without being monitored.
> >> >Martin said he would remove deed restrictions dating to the 1950s that > >> >prohibit blacks from owning property in the park and would clean up some > >> >of the condemned and abandoned structures.
> >> >He said sex offenders would be prohibited from Natura.
> >> >According to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Web site, four > >> >registered sex offenders, including two under state supervision, list > >> >addresses at Florida Naturist Park.
> >> Good catch!
> >> And they advertise in SocialFamilyNudism for naked children to be > >> brought there!!!!
> >> >Joe Gross, the county's assistant zoning and code compliance > >> >administrator, said there are six to 12 ongoing code violation cases at > >> >the park, primarily dealing with debris accumulation.
> >> >"Some of these properties have gone without attention for years," Gross > >> >said.- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >Show the "Advertisement" or shut up.
> Removed it have you? > Poor Mike ,an olive branch from you isn't worth too much
> >Besides which Family Nudism includes all of the Family not just the > >adults, or would you leave your baby home alone while you go to Glen > >Eden?
> >Oh silly me, You aren't even a Nudist...
> Nudist sex offenders have no moral high ground.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Now I know your next move will be to insist that being Nudists is an obvious indicator that the person is a "Sex Offender", but that is analogous with someone saying that "All black men are Criminals" or "All white people are Racists".
> > >> >Ward Gulvin opposed integration and wanted to create a religious haven for > > >> >nudists seeking escape from a rapidly changing world.
> > >> >To buy property, you had to be a nudist, and you had to be white.
> > >> >Gulvin died in 1994, at 90, and his settlement of sugar-sand trails, > > >> >wooden street signs and mobile homes fell into disrepair.
> > >> >Tall grass swallowed pristine fields, roads became impassable and the > > >> >three small lakes dried up, collecting bags of decaying garbage.
> > >> >Squatters took over abandoned and burned-out buildings. Teenagers > > >> >desecrated the woods with trash and broken beer bottles. Convicted sex > > >> >offenders moved into the neighborhood without being monitored.
> > >> >Martin said he would remove deed restrictions dating to the 1950s that > > >> >prohibit blacks from owning property in the park and would clean up some > > >> >of the condemned and abandoned structures.
> > >> >He said sex offenders would be prohibited from Natura.
> > >> >According to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Web site, four > > >> >registered sex offenders, including two under state supervision, list > > >> >addresses at Florida Naturist Park.
> > >> Good catch!
> > >> And they advertise in SocialFamilyNudism for naked children to be > > >> brought there!!!!
> > >> >Joe Gross, the county's assistant zoning and code compliance > > >> >administrator, said there are six to 12 ongoing code violation cases at > > >> >the park, primarily dealing with debris accumulation.
> > >> >"Some of these properties have gone without attention for years," Gross > > >> >said.- Hide quoted text -
> > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > >> - Show quoted text -
> > >Show the "Advertisement" or shut up.
> > Removed it have you? > > Poor Mike ,an olive branch from you isn't worth too much
> > >Besides which Family Nudism includes all of the Family not just the > > >adults, or would you leave your baby home alone while you go to Glen > > >Eden?
> > >Oh silly me, You aren't even a Nudist...
> > Nudist sex offenders have no moral high ground.- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> Now I know your next move will be to insist that being Nudists is an > obvious indicator that the person is a "Sex Offender", but that is > analogous with someone saying that "All black men are Criminals" or > "All white people are Racists".
> Have a nice day.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Evening Dex .... sorry I couldn't be here today. I just concluded a very fruitful afternoon with another two of ole' Billy boys former Board of Directors that I had not met before. Really nice people.
WOW .... what THEY had to say. But ... not to bore you.
They are interested in building here. As we talked I was brought back to your negativity and mis-information. Not a good way to live Dex. You know if you cut and run now you might be able to catch up with Brandon.
And I learned why ole' Billy boy might be so pissed at this time. But, not to bore you.
> > > >> >Ward Gulvin opposed integration and wanted to create a religious haven for > > > >> >nudists seeking escape from a rapidly changing world.
> > > >> >To buy property, you had to be a nudist, and you had to be white.
> > > >> >Gulvin died in 1994, at 90, and his settlement of sugar-sand trails, > > > >> >wooden street signs and mobile homes fell into disrepair.
> > > >> >Tall grass swallowed pristine fields, roads became impassable and the > > > >> >three small lakes dried up, collecting bags of decaying garbage.
> > > >> >Squatters took over abandoned and burned-out buildings. Teenagers > > > >> >desecrated the woods with trash and broken beer bottles. Convicted sex > > > >> >offenders moved into the neighborhood without being monitored.
> > > >> >Martin said he would remove deed restrictions dating to the 1950s that > > > >> >prohibit blacks from owning property in the park and would clean up some > > > >> >of the condemned and abandoned structures.
> > > >> >He said sex offenders would be prohibited from Natura.
> > > >> >According to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Web site, four > > > >> >registered sex offenders, including two under state supervision, list > > > >> >addresses at Florida Naturist Park.
> > > >> Good catch!
> > > >> And they advertise in SocialFamilyNudism for naked children to be > > > >> brought there!!!!
> > > >> >Joe Gross, the county's assistant zoning and code compliance > > > >> >administrator, said there are six to 12 ongoing code violation cases at > > > >> >the park, primarily dealing with debris accumulation.
> > > >> >"Some of these properties have gone without attention for years," Gross > > > >> >said.- Hide quoted text -
> > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > > >> - Show quoted text -
> > > >Show the "Advertisement" or shut up.
> > > Removed it have you? > > > Poor Mike ,an olive branch from you isn't worth too much
> > > >Besides which Family Nudism includes all of the Family not just the > > > >adults, or would you leave your baby home alone while you go to Glen > > > >Eden?
> > > >Oh silly me, You aren't even a Nudist...
> > > Nudist sex offenders have no moral high ground.- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > Now I know your next move will be to insist that being Nudists is an > > obvious indicator that the person is a "Sex Offender", but that is > > analogous with someone saying that "All black men are Criminals" or > > "All white people are Racists".
> > Have a nice day.- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> Evening Dex .... sorry I couldn't be here today. I just concluded a > very fruitful afternoon with another two of ole' Billy boys former > Board of Directors that I had not met before. Really nice people.
> WOW .... what THEY had to say. But ... not to bore you.
> They are interested in building here. As we talked I was brought back > to your negativity and mis-information. Not a good way to live Dex. > You know if you cut and run now you might be able to catch up with > Brandon.
> And I learned why ole' Billy boy might be so pissed at this time. > But, not to bore you.
"Ole Billy Boy" is way off track calling your park trashy. When the website was up, it sure does not look like it to me. I love the natural settings and the friendly looking naturists. The webmasters and photographers have done a wonderful job. Hope you are back up soon.
On Aug 31, 10:27 am, Dexter Sinatra <spamme...@nospamme.com> wrote:
> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of that's > what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already come to their aid. The Pasco County Sheriff is on the way out to intercede.
On Aug 31, 10:40 am, Ck <mthompso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> What are you people anyway ??
well, let me try and clarify the question ... aside from non-stop frivilous Law suits, feeling ya'll are above the law, stolen photo's, porn photo's, harassment of the eldery, Bankruptcy proceedings, IRS troubles, self rightous rants, advertizing for Naturist Parks you do not have, Bible thumping and manipulative lies, lies, lies .... what are you people anyway ??
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:40:10 -0700, Ck <mthompso...@tampabay.rr.com> > wrote:
> >On Aug 31, 10:27 am, Dexter Sinatra <spamme...@nospamme.com> wrote:
> >> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of that's > >> what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
> >Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your > >boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, > >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can > >tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already > >come to their aid.
> Would that be 13429 WYNN RANCH RD > HUDSON, FL 34669-2616
> Designation: Sexual Offender > Name: JOSEPH BRENDT BAUER > Status: Community Control > Department of Corrections #: T45036 > Search the Dept of Corrections Website > Date of Birth: 08/17/1982 > Race : White > Sex: Male > Hair: Blond > Eyes: Blue > Height: 6'00" > Weight: 140 lbs
> 6/20/2005 Lewd, Lascivious batt sex w/victim 12-15 years old; > F.S. 800.04(4)(a) (PRINCIPAL) 0418619 HILLSBOROUGH, FL > Guilty/convict > 11/17/2005 Lewd or lascivious battery victim 12-15 years old; > F.S. 800.04(4) (PRINCIPAL)
> >The Pasco County Sheriff is on the way out to > >intercede.
> perhaps it will give him probable cause to search Bauer's home.
> >What are you people anyway ??
> Not naked rapists, child pornographers and sex offenders posing as > "nudists".
Update ... after ole' Billy boy's ranting and raving for about an hour or more over at the Wynn ranch he was written a citation for trespass. The next time Billy is found on the remaining Wynn ranch property he goes to jail. A five foot deep trench has been dug where Billy has been making his illegal entry.
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:40:10 -0700, Ck <mthompso...@tampabay.rr.com> > wrote:
> >On Aug 31, 10:27 am, Dexter Sinatra <spamme...@nospamme.com> wrote:
> >> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of that's > >> what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
> >Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your > >boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, > >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can > >tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already > >come to their aid.
> Would that be 13429 WYNN RANCH RD > HUDSON, FL 34669-2616
> Designation: Sexual Offender > Name: JOSEPH BRENDT BAUER > Status: Community Control > Department of Corrections #: T45036 > Search the Dept of Corrections Website > Date of Birth: 08/17/1982 > Race : White > Sex: Male > Hair: Blond > Eyes: Blue > Height: 6'00" > Weight: 140 lbs
> 6/20/2005 Lewd, Lascivious batt sex w/victim 12-15 years old; > F.S. 800.04(4)(a) (PRINCIPAL) 0418619 HILLSBOROUGH, FL > Guilty/convict > 11/17/2005 Lewd or lascivious battery victim 12-15 years old; > F.S. 800.04(4) (PRINCIPAL)
> >The Pasco County Sheriff is on the way out to > >intercede.
> perhaps it will give him probable cause to search Bauer's home.
> >What are you people anyway ??
> Not naked rapists, child pornographers and sex offenders posing as > "nudists".
> > >> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of that's > > >> what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
> > >Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your > > >boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, > > >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can > > >tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already > > >come to their aid.
> > Would that be 13429 WYNN RANCH RD > > HUDSON, FL 34669-2616
> > Designation: Sexual Offender > > Name: JOSEPH BRENDT BAUER > > Status: Community Control > > Department of Corrections #: T45036 > > Search the Dept of Corrections Website > > Date of Birth: 08/17/1982 > > Race : White > > Sex: Male > > Hair: Blond > > Eyes: Blue > > Height: 6'00" > > Weight: 140 lbs
> > 6/20/2005 Lewd, Lascivious batt sex w/victim 12-15 years old; > > F.S. 800.04(4)(a) (PRINCIPAL) 0418619 HILLSBOROUGH, FL > > Guilty/convict > > 11/17/2005 Lewd or lascivious battery victim 12-15 years old; > > F.S. 800.04(4) (PRINCIPAL)
> > >The Pasco County Sheriff is on the way out to > > >intercede.
> > perhaps it will give him probable cause to search Bauer's home.
> > >What are you people anyway ??
> > Not naked rapists, child pornographers and sex offenders posing as > > "nudists".
> >> >> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of that's > >> >> what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
> >> >Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your > >> >boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, > >> >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can > >> >tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already > >> >come to their aid.
> >> Would that be 13429 WYNN RANCH RD > >> HUDSON, FL 34669-2616
> >> Designation: Sexual Offender > >> Name: JOSEPH BRENDT BAUER > >> Status: Community Control > >> Department of Corrections #: T45036 > >> Search the Dept of Corrections Website > >> Date of Birth: 08/17/1982 > >> Race : White > >> Sex: Male > >> Hair: Blond > >> Eyes: Blue > >> Height: 6'00" > >> Weight: 140 lbs
> >> 6/20/2005 Lewd, Lascivious batt sex w/victim 12-15 years old; > >> F.S. 800.04(4)(a) (PRINCIPAL) 0418619 HILLSBOROUGH, FL > >> Guilty/convict > >> 11/17/2005 Lewd or lascivious battery victim 12-15 years old; > >> F.S. 800.04(4) (PRINCIPAL)
> >> >The Pasco County Sheriff is on the way out to > >> >intercede.
> >> perhaps it will give him probable cause to search Bauer's home.
> >> >What are you people anyway ??
> >> Not naked rapists, child pornographers and sex offenders posing as > >> "nudists".
> In 2000, Pasco sheriff's deputies dug up a resident's lot looking for > the remains of a cross-dressing tree cutter named Larry Nelson, > presumed dead since 1996.
> Gulvin, who died in 1994 at the age of 90, was open about his > segregationist views. He cited examples from nature, pointing out how > squirrels avoided crows.
> One of his racially charged deed restrictions read: "Membership in > Florida Naturist Park is denied Negroes and black people because of > forwardness by them."
> Gulvin insisted he was exempt from civil rights laws because his park > was "religious" by virtue of their being nature worshipers. The resort > once had its own chapel and "bishop."
> Few of the nudists who flocked to the park in the 1960s remain.
> "Now you go in the nude, and they look at you like you've lost your > mind," neighbor Frank Ellison told the St. Petersburg Times in an > interview
> Designation: Sexual Offender > Name: Frank W Ellison > Status: Released > Department of Corrections #: R05909 > Search the Dept of Corrections Website > Date of Birth: 04/05/1932 > Race : White > Sex: Male > Hair: Brown > Eyes: Green > Height: 6'00" > Weight: 240 lbs
So what does this mean - that all the people in that park have the same views as Ward Gulvin and all of them are sex offenders like the one you write about. Seems to me that is an inclusive accusation. And no - I have no idea who you are accusing? Apparently, according to other posts on rec.nude, Gulvin is dead.
Just because the sex offender list shows an area where they are located, it does not mean they live in the park. Why attack such a nice park? What have they done to you? Their website indicates that it is being well taken care of now. Why would you try to slander people that have no connection to you?
> >> >> >> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of that's > >> >> >> what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
> >> >> >Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your > >> >> >boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, > >> >> >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can > >> >> >tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already > >> >> >come to their aid.
> >> >> Would that be 13429 WYNN RANCH RD > >> >> HUDSON, FL 34669-2616
> >> >> Designation: Sexual Offender > >> >> Name: JOSEPH BRENDT BAUER > >> >> Status: Community Control > >> >> Department of Corrections #: T45036 > >> >> Search the Dept of Corrections Website > >> >> Date of Birth: 08/17/1982 > >> >> Race : White > >> >> Sex: Male > >> >> Hair: Blond > >> >> Eyes: Blue > >> >> Height: 6'00" > >> >> Weight: 140 lbs
> >> In 2000, Pasco sheriff's deputies dug up a resident's lot looking for > >> the remains of a cross-dressing tree cutter named Larry Nelson, > >> presumed dead since 1996.
> >> Gulvin, who died in 1994 at the age of 90, was open about his > >> segregationist views. He cited examples from nature, pointing out how > >> squirrels avoided crows.
> >> One of his racially charged deed restrictions read: "Membership in > >> Florida Naturist Park is denied Negroes and black people because of > >> forwardness by them."
> >> Gulvin insisted he was exempt from civil rights laws because his park > >> was "religious" by virtue of their being nature worshipers. The resort > >> once had its own chapel and "bishop."
> >> Few of the nudists who flocked to the park in the 1960s remain.
> >> "Now you go in the nude, and they look at you like you've lost your > >> mind," neighbor Frank Ellison told the St. Petersburg Times in an > >> interview
> >> Designation: Sexual Offender > >> Name: Frank W Ellison > >> Status: Released > >> Department of Corrections #: R05909 > >> Search the Dept of Corrections Website > >> Date of Birth: 04/05/1932 > >> Race : White > >> Sex: Male > >> Hair: Brown > >> Eyes: Green > >> Height: 6'00" > >> Weight: 240 lbs
> >So what does this mean - that all the people in that park have the > >same views as Ward Gulvin and all of them are sex offenders like the > >one you write about. Seems to me that is an inclusive accusation. > >And no - I have no idea who you are accusing? Apparently, according > >to other posts on rec.nude, Gulvin is dead.
> >Just because the sex offender list shows an area where they are > >located, it does not mean they live in the park. Why attack such a > >nice park?
> They live in the park. The police know it,the residents know it. > The Neighborhood knows it.
> And within two years, he hopes to install permanent, more upscale > housing, the church and a $750,000 water park for the kids.
> Still, there are more problems to deal with for a park focusing on > families and children. Martin said he has identified four registered > sex offenders - "pedophiles" - living in or around the park.
> He hasn't yet figured out what to do about the problem, though he said > he's discussing it with his attorneys.
> "We'll make sure that no harm will come to children," he said.
> >What have they done to you? Their website indicates that > >it is being well taken care of now.
> On the contrary these dead enders are doing all in their power to > prevent the clean up of the park by Mr Martin,who intends to rid > the park of them .
> >Why would you try to slander > >people that have no connection to you?
> Public information about the presence of sex offenders in a > venue that encourages naked children is not slander.
> Whole lots had been transformed into trash pits. The clubhouse and > beach had been severely neglected. The former owner had written this > clause into deeds for individual lots: "Membership in Florida Naturist > Park is denied Negroes . . . not so much because of color, but because > of their forwardness."
> Martin is cleaning up the trash, fixing the deed problem and redoing > the clubhouse. For his troubles, he said, he has received death > threats from longtime residents of the rundown park who don't want > things to change.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
I went to the sex offender site you posted and see that only ONE of those people has an address on a road in the park (reference Pasco County property appraisers site). First you say 24 offenders live in the park, then you say Martin found 4. Your numbers appear to be made up in your head. What else is made up in your head?
I am sure that Martin wants to tear down all those beautiful oak trees I see in the photos of their website, to build his dream. Progress to one is not always progress to others. However, according to other posts here, he is in bankruptcy court. It sounds like you know a lot about his plans, so much so that one would seem to think that you are him. Are you?
Just because Ward Gulvin, who is dead, had problems, does not mean that all the people living there now have the same problem. It is not their fault that he put the racist restrictions on membership. Seems to me that the racism died with Ward Gulvin.
>From the pictures on their website, none of what you say is true. The
clubhouse looks very nice. Other posters have indicated that Martin has not paid a cent to clean up the park, but that the residents living there have and they don't even own the park grounds. Also other posters have said that the properties he purchased there have some of the worst trash problems.
Wow you are him aren't you? If Martin is on the up and up why would he hide behind pseudo names?
> >> >> >> >> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of that's > >> >> >> >> what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
> >> >> >> >Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your > >> >> >> >boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, > >> >> >> >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can > >> >> >> >tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already > >> >> >> >come to their aid.
> >> >> >> Would that be 13429 WYNN RANCH RD > >> >> >> HUDSON, FL 34669-2616
> >> >> >> Designation: Sexual Offender > >> >> >> Name: JOSEPH BRENDT BAUER > >> >> >> Status: Community Control > >> >> >> Department of Corrections #: T45036 > >> >> >> Search the Dept of Corrections Website > >> >> >> Date of Birth: 08/17/1982 > >> >> >> Race : White > >> >> >> Sex: Male > >> >> >> Hair: Blond > >> >> >> Eyes: Blue > >> >> >> Height: 6'00" > >> >> >> Weight: 140 lbs
> >> >> In 2000, Pasco sheriff's deputies dug up a resident's lot looking for > >> >> the remains of a cross-dressing tree cutter named Larry Nelson, > >> >> presumed dead since 1996.
> >> >> Gulvin, who died in 1994 at the age of 90, was open about his > >> >> segregationist views. He cited examples from nature, pointing out how > >> >> squirrels avoided crows.
> >> >> One of his racially charged deed restrictions read: "Membership in > >> >> Florida Naturist Park is denied Negroes and black people because of > >> >> forwardness by them."
> >> >> Gulvin insisted he was exempt from civil rights laws because his park > >> >> was "religious" by virtue of their being nature worshipers. The resort > >> >> once had its own chapel and "bishop."
> >> >> Few of the nudists who flocked to the park in the 1960s remain.
> >> >> "Now you go in the nude, and they look at you like you've lost your > >> >> mind," neighbor Frank Ellison told the St. Petersburg Times in an > >> >> interview
> >> >So what does this mean - that all the people in that park have the > >> >same views as Ward Gulvin and all of them are sex offenders like the > >> >one you write about. Seems to me that is an inclusive accusation. > >> >And no - I have no idea who you are accusing? Apparently, according > >> >to other posts on rec.nude, Gulvin is dead.
> >> >Just because the sex offender list shows an area where they are > >> >located, it does not mean they live in the park. Why attack such a > >> >nice park?
> >> They live in the park. The police know it,the residents know it. > >> The Neighborhood knows it.
> >> And within two years, he hopes to install permanent, more upscale > >> housing, the church and a $750,000 water park for the kids.
> >> Still, there are more problems to deal with for a park focusing on > >> families and children. Martin said he has identified four registered > >> sex offenders - "pedophiles" - living in or around the park.
> >> He hasn't yet figured out what to do about the problem, though he said > >> he's discussing it with his attorneys.
> >> "We'll make sure that no harm will come to children," he said.
> >> >What have they done to you? Their website indicates that > >> >it is being well taken care of now.
> >> On the contrary these dead enders are doing all in their power to > >> prevent the clean up of the park by Mr Martin,who intends to rid > >> the park of them .
> >> >Why would you try to slander > >> >people that have no connection to you?
> >> Public information about the presence of sex offenders in a > >> venue that encourages naked children is not slander.
> >> Whole lots had been transformed into trash pits. The clubhouse and > >> beach had been severely neglected. The former owner had written this > >> clause into deeds for individual lots: "Membership in Florida Naturist > >> Park is denied Negroes . . . not so much because of color, but because > >> of their forwardness."
> >> Martin is cleaning up the trash, fixing the deed problem and redoing > >> the clubhouse. For his troubles, he said, he has received death > >> threats from longtime residents of the rundown park who don't want > >> things to change.- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >I went to the sex offender site you posted and see that only ONE of > >those people has an address on a road in the park (reference Pasco > >County property appraisers site). First you say 24 offenders live in > >the park,
> I said 24 sex offenders/predators live in the zip code. > This is a simple fact.
> > then you say Martin found 4.
> Yes he did.
> >Your numbers appear to be made > >up in your head. What else is made up in your head?
> Anyone (apart from you it seems) has no difficulty in typing the zip > code into the sex offenders registry and seeing the 24 flyers. > Your inane insults do not alter this.
> >I am sure that Martin wants to tear down all those beautiful oak trees > >I see in the photos of their website, to build his dream. Progress > >to one is not always progress to others. However, according to other > >posts here, he is in bankruptcy court. It sounds like you know a lot > >about his plans, so much so that one would seem to think that you are > >him. Are you?
> >Just because Ward Gulvin, who is dead, had problems, does not mean > >that all the people living there now have the same problem. It is not > >their fault that he put the racist restrictions on membership. Seems > >to me that the racism died with Ward Gulvin.
> >>From the pictures on their website, none of what you say is true. The > >clubhouse looks very nice. Other posters have indicated that Martin > >has not paid a cent to clean up the park, but that the residents > >living there have and they don't even own the park grounds. Also > >other posters have said that the properties he purchased there have > >some of the worst trash problems.
> >Wow you are him aren't you? If Martin is on the up and up why would > >he hide behind pseudo names?
> You are posting from the Florida Naturist Park area yourself under a > pseudo name. Are you not on the up and up?
> Perhaps you are one of them.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
I said that I found that only ONE of them has a park address. You did not address that. How convienent. So if Martin said he found 4 then that he is lying. Again, if there are so many in that area, then why would Martin think it would be prudent to create a nudist youth camp there? Bizzare indeed. Why did the police go to his house under suspicion of him?
You have found false information about where I am posting from. Way off. I am not in the Fairwind Lakes Naturist Park. I explained why I would not say who I am. I am trying my best to avoid Bill Martin because of what I was told and what I have read in the posts here. He appears to be a vindicative old man that wants he own way no matter what it costs anyone else. Like you said, he wants to rid the park of the current residents. Nice "Christian" attitude. Apparently he does not even own the park so how can he do anthing there. What a pity that people try to control people with only the power in their own mind. Thank goodness for court systems.
> >> > >> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of that's > >> > >> what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
> >> > >Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your > >> > >boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, > >> > >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can > >> > >tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already > >> > >come to their aid.
> >> > Would that be 13429 WYNN RANCH RD > >> > HUDSON, FL 34669-2616
> >> > Designation: Sexual Offender > >> > Name: JOSEPH BRENDT BAUER > >> > Status: Community Control > >> > Department of Corrections #: T45036 > >> > Search the Dept of Corrections Website > >> > Date of Birth: 08/17/1982 > >> > Race : White > >> > Sex: Male > >> > Hair: Blond > >> > Eyes: Blue > >> > Height: 6'00" > >> > Weight: 140 lbs
> >> Who are you accusing here of being naked rapists, child pornographers > >> and sex offenders?- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >Never mind Dexter, he just thinks he's the newest version of Elliot > >Ness for the "Sex Crimes Division".
> "Sex Crimes Division"?
> It might behoove you to at least know your enemy.
> Agents Arrest Lakeland Man for Possession of Child Pornography
> August 2, 2007
> Agents with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) arrested > John L. Thurmond, 27, of Lakeland, Fla. and charged him with 100 > counts of possession of child pornography. Each count is punishable up > to five years in prison. Thurmond is an instructor at a local martial > arts studio in Lakeland, Fla. and was immediately put on suspension > until the investigation is completed. More charges may follow after a > full forensic review of Thurmond's computer.
> Thurmond became a suspect during an undercover operation by the > Florida Department of Law Enforcement Computer Crime Center, Polk > County Sheriff's Office and the North Florida Internet Crimes Against > Children Taskforce. Agents were able to determine that Thurmond was > utilizing his home computer to download and distribute child > pornography.
> >It is kind of fun to watch him and his buddies "Meltdown" though.
> Ellison's crimes and the ongoing danger to children posed by this > refuge for sex offenders registered and unregistered,are not > diminished by your babbling about "meltdown's"
> I guess it gives you brownie points with Michael Thomson. > :)
> White power graffiti occasionally appears on some buildings. Burned > out trailers sit untended for years. Plastic sheeting plugs broken > windows.
> In 2000, Pasco sheriff's deputies dug up a resident's lot looking for > the remains of a cross-dressing tree cutter named Larry Nelson, > presumed dead since 1996.
> Gulvin, who died in 1994 at the age of 90, was open about his > segregationist views. He cited examples from nature, pointing out how > squirrels avoided crows.
> One of his racially charged deed restrictions read: "Membership in > Florida Naturist Park is denied Negroes and black people because of > forwardness by them."
> Gulvin insisted he was exempt from civil rights laws because his park > was "religious" by virtue of their being nature worshipers. The resort > once had its own chapel and "bishop."
> Few of the nudists who flocked to the park in the 1960s remain.
> "Now you go in the nude, and they look at you like you've lost your > mind," neighbor Frank Ellison told the St. Petersburg Times in an > interview
> Designation: Sexual Offender > Name: Frank W Ellison > Status: Released > Department of Corrections #: R05909 > Search the Dept of Corrections Website > Date of Birth: 04/05/1932 > Race : White > Sex: Male > Hair: Brown > Eyes: Green > Height: 6'00" > Weight: 240 lbs
Evening Dex .... seems now you are just plain throwing up on your self.
What does the Florida Dept of Law Enforcemnt arresting a man in lakeland have to do with the FNP. That town is miles from here.
Why havn't you told the readers that zip code 34669 also contains ole' Billy boys so called 13 acre Natura-Fellowship naked children's camp ?? or that the Mr. Bauer you throw at this Park who is on the County offenders list resides right on the road into that Bill Martin camp ... maybe just 100 feet from the remote entrance, and not here ??
Should you tell the readers that the two pieces of graffiti were removed by the residents several years ago and none has returned. Kids will be Kids you know.
While Ward Gulvin did originally have racist restrictions on residency in the Park, he died 15 years ago and those restrictions were uninforceable since the civil rights legislation of 1962. The whole country was more or less racist at that time. Do you have a reason to single this Park out for what is not going on at all now, and hasn't for decades ?? except your emerging utter ignorance and what is begginning to be outright false PR and lies ??
What possibly could be your point in saying that Ward Gulvin claimed to be exempt from cilil right laws on a religious ground when ole" Billy boy claims the same exemption.
Hey Dex ... did you hear that ole' Billy boy was cited just today for trespassing on the Wynn ranch property ?? If he doesn't leave that 90 year old Wynn family Matriarch alone, the next time he will be arrested.
And you ... well, you sound more and more like his webmaster.
>> >> > >> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of >> >> > >> that > 's >> >> > >> what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
>> >> > >Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. >> >> > >Your boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , >> >> > >August 31, 0 > 7, >> >> > >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that >> >> > >he can tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors >> >> > >have already come to their aid.
>> >> > Would that be 13429 WYNN RANCH RD >> >> > HUDSON, FL 34669-2616
>> >> > Designation: Sexual Offender >> >> > Name: JOSEPH BRENDT BAUER >> >> > Status: Community Control >> >> > Department of Corrections #: T45036 >> >> > Search the Dept of Corrections Website >> >> > Date of Birth: 08/17/1982 >> >> > Race : White >> >> > Sex: Male >> >> > Hair: Blond >> >> > Eyes: Blue >> >> > Height: 6'00" >> >> > Weight: 140 lbs
>> >> Who are you accusing here of being naked rapists, child >> >> pornographers and sex offenders?- Hide quoted text -
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >Never mind Dexter, he just thinks he's the newest version of Elliot >> >Ness for the "Sex Crimes Division".
>> "Sex Crimes Division"?
>> It might behoove you to at least know your enemy.
>> Agents Arrest Lakeland Man for Possession of Child Pornography
>> August 2, 2007
>> Agents with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) arrested >> John L. Thurmond, 27, of Lakeland, Fla. and charged him with 100 >> counts of possession of child pornography. Each count is punishable >> up to five years in prison. Thurmond is an instructor at a local >> martial arts studio in Lakeland, Fla. and was immediately put on >> suspension until the investigation is completed. More charges may >> follow after a full forensic review of Thurmond's computer.
>> Thurmond became a suspect during an undercover operation by the >> Florida Department of Law Enforcement Computer Crime Center, Polk >> County Sheriff's Office and the North Florida Internet Crimes Against >> Children Taskforce. Agents were able to determine that Thurmond was >> utilizing his home computer to download and distribute child >> pornography.
>> >It is kind of fun to watch him and his buddies "Meltdown" though.
>> Ellison's crimes and the ongoing danger to children posed by this >> refuge for sex offenders registered and unregistered,are not >> diminished by your babbling about "meltdown's"
>> I guess it gives you brownie points with Michael Thomson. >> :)
>> White power graffiti occasionally appears on some buildings. Burned >> out trailers sit untended for years. Plastic sheeting plugs broken >> windows.
>> In 2000, Pasco sheriff's deputies dug up a resident's lot looking for >> the remains of a cross-dressing tree cutter named Larry Nelson, >> presumed dead since 1996.
>> Gulvin, who died in 1994 at the age of 90, was open about his >> segregationist views. He cited examples from nature, pointing out how >> squirrels avoided crows.
>> One of his racially charged deed restrictions read: "Membership in >> Florida Naturist Park is denied Negroes and black people because of >> forwardness by them."
>> Gulvin insisted he was exempt from civil rights laws because his park >> was "religious" by virtue of their being nature worshipers. The >> resort once had its own chapel and "bishop."
>> Few of the nudists who flocked to the park in the 1960s remain.
>> "Now you go in the nude, and they look at you like you've lost your >> mind," neighbor Frank Ellison told the St. Petersburg Times in an >> interview
>> Designation: Sexual Offender >> Name: Frank W Ellison >> Status: Released >> Department of Corrections #: R05909 >> Search the Dept of Corrections Website >> Date of Birth: 04/05/1932 >> Race : White >> Sex: Male >> Hair: Brown >> Eyes: Green >> Height: 6'00" >> Weight: 240 lbs
> Evening Dex .... seems now you are just plain throwing up on your > self.
> What does the Florida Dept of Law Enforcemnt arresting a man in > lakeland have to do with the FNP. That town is miles from here.
> Why havn't you told the readers that zip code 34669 also contains ole' > Billy boys so called 13 acre Natura-Fellowship naked children's > camp ?? or that the Mr. Bauer you throw at this Park who is on the > County offenders list resides right on the road into that Bill Martin > camp ... maybe just 100 feet from the remote entrance, and not > here ??
> Should you tell the readers that the two pieces of graffiti were > removed by the residents several years ago and none has returned. Kids > will be Kids you know.
> While Ward Gulvin did originally have racist restrictions on residency > in the Park, he died 15 years ago and those restrictions were > uninforceable since the civil rights legislation of 1962. The whole > country was more or less racist at that time. Do you have a reason to > single this Park out for what is not going on at all now, and hasn't > for decades ?? except your emerging utter ignorance and what is > begginning to be outright false PR and lies ??
> What possibly could be your point in saying that Ward Gulvin claimed > to be exempt from cilil right laws on a religious ground when ole" > Billy boy claims the same exemption.
> Hey Dex ... did you hear that ole' Billy boy was cited just today for > trespassing on the Wynn ranch property ?? If he doesn't leave that 90 > year old Wynn family Matriarch alone, the next time he will be > arrested.
> And you ... well, you sound more and more like his webmaster.
> >> >> >> >> >> Unlike you ,Nibbles", I don't revel in child pornography ,of that's > >> >> >> >> >> what you mean.- Hide quoted text -
> >> >> >> >> >Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your > >> >> >> >> >boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, > >> >> >> >> >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can > >> >> >> >> >tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already > >> >> >> >> >come to their aid.
> >> >> >> >> Would that be 13429 WYNN RANCH RD > >> >> >> >> HUDSON, FL 34669-2616
> >> >> >> >> Designation: Sexual Offender > >> >> >> >> Name: JOSEPH BRENDT BAUER > >> >> >> >> Status: Community Control > >> >> >> >> Department of Corrections #: T45036 > >> >> >> >> Search the Dept of Corrections Website > >> >> >> >> Date of Birth: 08/17/1982 > >> >> >> >> Race : White > >> >> >> >> Sex: Male > >> >> >> >> Hair: Blond > >> >> >> >> Eyes: Blue > >> >> >> >> Height: 6'00" > >> >> >> >> Weight: 140 lbs
> >> >> >> In 2000, Pasco sheriff's deputies dug up a resident's lot looking for > >> >> >> the remains of a cross-dressing tree cutter named Larry Nelson, > >> >> >> presumed dead since 1996.
> >> >> >> Gulvin, who died in 1994 at the age of 90, was open about his > >> >> >> segregationist views. He cited examples from nature, pointing out how > >> >> >> squirrels avoided crows.
> >> >> >> One of his racially charged deed restrictions read: "Membership in > >> >> >> Florida Naturist Park is denied Negroes and black people because of > >> >> >> forwardness by them."
> >> >> >> Gulvin insisted he was exempt from civil rights laws because his park > >> >> >> was "religious" by virtue of their being nature worshipers. The resort > >> >> >> once had its own chapel and "bishop."
> >> >> >> Few of the nudists who flocked to the park in the 1960s remain.
> >> >> >> "Now you go in the nude, and they look at you like you've lost your > >> >> >> mind," neighbor Frank Ellison told the St. Petersburg Times in an > >> >> >> interview
> >> >> >So what does this mean - that all the people in that park have the > >> >> >same views as Ward Gulvin and all of them are sex offenders like the > >> >> >one you write about. Seems to me that is an inclusive accusation. > >> >> >And no - I have no idea who you are accusing? Apparently, according > >> >> >to other posts on rec.nude, Gulvin is dead.
> >> >> >Just because the sex offender list shows an area where they are > >> >> >located, it does not mean they live in the park. Why attack such a > >> >> >nice park?
> >> >> They live in the park. The police know it,the residents know it. > >> >> The Neighborhood knows it.
> >> >> And within two years, he hopes to install permanent, more upscale > >> >> housing, the church and a $750,000 water park for the kids.
> >> >> Still, there are more problems to deal with for a park focusing on > >> >> families and children. Martin said he has identified four registered > >> >> sex offenders - "pedophiles" - living in or around the park.
> >> >> He hasn't yet figured out what to do about the problem, though he said > >> >> he's discussing it with his attorneys.
> >> >> "We'll make sure that no harm will come to children," he said.
> >> >> >What have they done to you? Their website indicates that > >> >> >it is being well taken care of now.
> >> >> On the contrary these dead enders are doing all in their power to > >> >> prevent the clean up of the park by Mr Martin,who intends to rid > >> >> the park of them .
> >> >> >Why would you try to slander > >> >> >people that have no connection to you?
> >> >> Public information about the presence of sex offenders in a > >> >> venue that encourages naked children is not slander.
> >> >> Whole lots had been transformed into trash pits. The clubhouse and > >> >> beach had been severely neglected. The former owner had written this > >> >> clause into deeds for individual lots: "Membership in Florida Naturist > >> >> Park is denied Negroes . . . not so much because of color, but because > >> >> of their forwardness."
> >> >> Martin is cleaning up the trash, fixing the deed problem and redoing > >> >> the clubhouse. For his troubles, he said, he has received death > >> >> threats from longtime residents of the rundown park who don't want > >> >> things to change.- Hide quoted text -
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
> >> >I went to the sex offender site you posted and see that only ONE of > >> >those people has an address on a road in the park (reference Pasco > >> >County property appraisers site). First you say 24 offenders live in > >> >the park,
> >> I said 24 sex offenders/predators live in the zip code. > >> This is a simple fact.
> >> > then you say Martin found 4.
> >> Yes he did.
> >> >Your numbers appear to be made > >> >up in your head. What else is made up in your head?
> >> Anyone (apart from you it seems) has no difficulty in typing the zip > >> code into the sex offenders registry and seeing the 24 flyers. > >> Your inane insults do not alter this.
> >> >I am sure that Martin wants to tear down all those beautiful oak trees > >> >I see in the photos of their website, to build his dream. Progress > >> >to one is not always progress to others. However, according to other > >> >posts here, he is in bankruptcy court. It sounds like you know a lot > >> >about his plans, so much so that one would seem to think that you are > >> >him. Are you?
> >> >Just because Ward Gulvin, who is dead, had problems, does not mean > >> >that all the people living there now have the same problem. It is not > >> >their fault that he put the racist restrictions on membership. Seems > >> >to me that the racism died with Ward Gulvin.
> >> >>From the pictures on their website, none of what you say is true. The > >> >clubhouse looks very nice. Other posters have indicated that Martin > >> >has not paid a cent to clean up the park, but that the residents > >> >living there have and they don't even own the park grounds. Also > >> >other posters have said that the properties he purchased there have > >> >some of the worst trash problems.
> >> >Wow you are him aren't you? If Martin is on the up and up why would > >> >he hide behind pseudo names?
> >> You are posting from the Florida Naturist Park area yourself under a > >> pseudo name. Are you not on the up and up?
> >> Perhaps you are one of them.- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >I said that I found that only ONE of them has a park address. You did > >not address that. How convienent. So if Martin said he found 4 then > >that he is lying.
> It is a fact. > That doesn't take into account the ones who have sneaked in without > informing the police.
You have provided no proof that it is fact. Only one man you pulled off the internet. Sneaking, sneaking, seems to me that Bill Martin is the one who is sneaking!
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:40:10 -0700, Ck <mthompso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>Morning Dex and James ... Just thought you would like to know. Your >boss and/or photo Guru, ole' Billy boy, is right now , August 31, 07, >over at the Wynn ranch throwing his weight around saying that he can >tresspass on their property all he wants. The neighbors have already >come to their aid. The Pasco County Sheriff is on the way out to >intercede.
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:54:53 -0700, Ck <mthompso...@tampabay.rr.com> > wrote:
> >On Aug 31, 11:13 pm, Dexter Sinatra <spamme...@nospamme.com> wrote:
> >> That is completely based on fact as the police and Mike Thompson will > >> verify.
> >Sorry Dex ... I can not verify much, if anything, that you have > >submitted.
> So you are saying that R.Steve Walz was correct, and you were lying > when you said you had had a sex predator arrested for failing to > report his presence in the park?
> >Come back when you have something that happened inside the Park ... we > >are not responsible for what happens in the world out side the park.
> YOUR claim was that you were responsible for the arrest IN the park. > You were asked if his partner had also left but failed to answer.
A trip toyour optomitrist would help. I do not read anything from R. Steve Waltz.
When I moved into the Park there was a resident named Bobbie Elia living here. He was notorios for his drinking and running around on his golf cart. I learned he was a convicted pedophile about a year after moving in. Bill Martin was on the scene them.
According to Elia and some of the other residents ole' Billy boy approached Elia and said he could stay in the park if he paid $25,000 security.
Somehow [not me] someone found out that Elia never registered with the State as required. He apparently went to trial on that charge and was given a sentence resticting him to his residence only. Called home arrest. I learned about that.
One day the neighbors son complained that Elia was in some bushes watching him and a friend in a boat on the lake. I watched and sure enough he was. Later in the same day I observed that Elia had moved to behind a fence at the beach and was watching some other kids. I took photo's of him next to the fence and off the residential property that he was confined to and another resident called his probation officer. They came and arrested Elia. Chillingly there was a childs nursery play area in one corner of the three room house they resided in.
After Elia was returned to jail. The jail records show that Martin was a frequent visitor to him thereafter.
Elia was adjudicated, given jail time, given a long new house arrest, and another long probation and ordered never to enter another naturist Park under threat of nine years in prison if he did. Elia never came back here as far as I know and his lover has left as well. They are residing abut 4 miles down the road I am told.
Sorry ... no lies connected to it on my part. You should have known that ... being as how you are both of the same ilk.
