Most people determine their own destiny
Marla Channon
Most people, including myself, determine their own destiny. Psychics
are full of crap.
Marla
Earl Curley
Next time choose your psychic a lot more wiser than you did. I guess
you forgot that you control your own destiny.
Alphon
On 18 Nov 1996, Marla Channon wrote:
> Most people, including myself, determine their own destiny. Psychics
> are full of crap.
>
> Marla
>
>
I don't think so. I know psychics are full of crap but I believe
that your destiny is already written, and the only thing you have to do
is to follwo it. Life can give many turns because destiny has many
branches, every one of them will take you to the same place that is
established in your destiny.
Just writin'.
Your friend
Alfonso Ramirez
Marla Channon
Alphon (al53...@campus.cdj.itesm.mx) wrote:
: Your friend
: Alfonso Ramirez
Some people's destiny is set as far as the general path, like
superstars, i.e. read A Dream Is A Wish Your Heart Makes, an
autobiography by Annette Funicello. Other ordinary people, including
myself who very likely are not destined to be a superstar, have choices
to make as to the course my and any other ordinary person's life is to
take. No psychic can tell a person (who's not a celebrity or destined
to starve in Africa) that XY and Z will happen to them. Most people
have choice, control and determination over their whole own destiny.
Every second, hour, minute, day, week, year and long range planning is
determined by the choices most people make, including myself.
Marla
Marla Channon
Marla Channon
There are a few instances God hands a person karmic destiny. That is
the epitome of the saying, "What goes around, comes around."
When someone is violent and abuses others unjustly, one gets karmic
destiny. God hands to the person what that person deserves. Notice
murders are punished for there crimes even if they're not caught. God
makes sure of that.
If you're a decent, good person and treat others how you would want to
be treated, you probably don't have any karmic destiny.
MC
Longhorn
Well said Marla! :) Proof that there is virtue in living the "Golden
Rule".
Longhorn
Ridwan Hughes
On 19-Nov-96 11:41:09, Longhorn said about Re: Most people determine their own
destiny:
[snip]
If you carry on with this thread, could you please remove
alt.life.universe.everything from the newsgroups?
Rid
--
Midnight Fox
Brenda Ehmka
Marla Channon wrote:
>
> There are a few instances God hands a person karmic destiny. That is
> the epitome of the saying, "What goes around, comes around."
>
> When someone is violent and abuses others unjustly, one gets karmic
> destiny. God hands to the person what that person deserves. Notice
> murders are punished for there crimes even if they're not caught. God
> makes sure of that.
>
> If you're a decent, good person and treat others how you would want to
> be treated, you probably don't have any karmic destiny.
>
> MC
Hi Marla:)
I believe you are right. We all have choices. Our destiny is basically
chosen for us by our soul before we incarnate into this lifetime. This
is in order to learn the needed lessons that can take us to the next
level. We can always opt to become wayward and ignore our life's
purpose. We all have one and that is why we are here. For some it is
easy. They just seem to know... Others have struggles with why they are
here or what they are supposed to be doing. I personally believe in
reincarnation. Therefore we all have karma accumulated from other
lifetimes, unless you are a new soul being incarnated for the first
time.... This karma can also be good. I tend to think karma is a earth
thing for outside of the earth time does not exist as we know it. I
believe that other places are lightning fast when it comes to karma. If
you do wrong another the repurcussions are felt immediately. It is the
density of the earth and the time factor which often makes ones *payback
time* seem nonexistant. Ultimately though you have the choice to do with
your life as you deem fit. Intention and willingness to knock on the
door creates opportunity. Ask and ye shall receive. The teacher
appears when the student is ready... These sayings have merit. We are
very powerful and we have the ability to do many things of great
magnitude.
--
Brenda <'-'>
Official Lady DreamCatcher of the RFA
** Come check out our web page. **
http://www.frontiernet.net/~ehmka/
Marla Channon
Most people (almost everyone) has choices they make in life every second.
THE FUTURE IS UNWRITTEN--EVEN BY GOD. People write the future for their
own lives. And God doesn't command anyone to do anything at any
particular moment. We all have choices.
The most karmic time for many and most people is childhood because if
something bothers you you can't just drive away in a car and take a
vacation. As a child, your stuck with the way your parents treat you.
When a person reaches 18-25, one's destiny is almost completely
determined by oneself if one is not paralyzed completely. One decides
if one wants to go to college and if one wants to put the work into
earning a college degree or advanced degree. One decides who one wants
to marry or if one wants to marry at all. One decides if one wants to
work (or not work). The only aspect of destiny we can't control is how
people act around us. We can only control ourselves and determine our
own destiny. But you can influence other people to do what you want
them to do (not control them). Other people around you do not have a
set destiny either. They are not robots controlled by God. They have
choices, too.
Marla
Jonathan C. Dunn
On 20 Nov 1996, Marla Channon wrote:
> Most people (almost everyone) has choices they make in life every second.
>
> THE FUTURE IS UNWRITTEN--EVEN BY GOD.
Most people who talk about God would ascribe the characteristic
"all-knowing" or "beyond time". I take it you have a somewhat different
conception of the absolute being...?
> The most karmic time for many and most people is childhood because if
> something bothers you you can't just drive away in a car and take a
> vacation. As a child, your stuck with the way your parents treat you.
Most people who talk about Karma believe in re-incarnation. From this
perspective, they usually describe "choosing your parents" or at least
gravitating to appropriate parents - in which case the apparently
childhood-formed characteristics actually pre-date birth, eh?
> When a person reaches 18-25, one's destiny is almost completely
> determined by oneself if one is not paralyzed completely. One decides
> if one wants to go to college and if one wants to put the work into
> earning a college degree or advanced degree. One decides who one wants
> to marry or if one wants to marry at all. One decides if one wants to
> work (or not work). The only aspect of destiny we can't control is how
> people act around us. We can only control ourselves and determine our
> own destiny. But you can influence other people to do what you want
> them to do (not control them). Other people around you do not have a
> set destiny either. They are not robots controlled by God. They have
> choices, too.
For many, this period of growing up brings many painful realizations. The
sensation in childhood of being carefree and having unlimited potential
becomes bogged down by realizations not only of life's patterns, but of
the patterns in one's own subconscious. Some even have a dawning
awareness of a particular destiny they feel born to fulfill. Maturity,
then, is just as often as not a process of facing the inevitable.
(a little counterpoint)
Will
Marla Channon wrote:
>
>
> THE FUTURE IS UNWRITTEN--EVEN BY GOD.
>
> determined by oneself if one is not paralyzed completely. One decides
> if one wants to go to college and if one wants to put the work into
> earning a college degree or advanced degree. One decides who one wants
> to marry or if one wants to marry at all. One decides if one wants to
> work (or not work).
and one decides when they've read some dog dirt from one whom advises as
if one's ball is crystal....nice try, Marla
--
_ ___ __ _ _
|__| | |\ / |_| | | |_| |_ |\/|| || ||\ |
| | |_| \/\/ | | | | | | |__ | ||_||_|| \|
where's the beef ?? ?
Marla Channon
Marla Channon (cha...@wahoo.csu.net) wrote:
: There are a few instances God hands a person karmic destiny. That is
: the epitome of the saying, "What goes around, comes around."
: When someone is violent and abuses others unjustly, one gets karmic
: destiny. God hands to the person what that person deserves. Notice
: murders are punished for there crimes even if they're not caught. God
: makes sure of that.
: If you're a decent, good person and treat others how you would want to
: be treated, you probably don't have any karmic destiny.
: MC
God sees everything that's going on on earth.
MC
Marla Channon
: > THE FUTURE IS UNWRITTEN--EVEN BY GOD.
: > one's destiny is almost completely
: > determined by oneself if one is not paralyzed completely. One decides
OOPS! The previous sentence may have been misconstrued. In the above
sentence, I didn't mean people who use wheelchairs. I was thinking of
people who are paralyzed 100% completely and have lost any range of
motion who can't move their lips head or anything else and can't make
any sounds out of their throat (unlike Christopher what's his
name--Superman). When I said completely paralyzed, I meant people who
were on their death beds who couldn't use any muscle or anything in
their bodies except blink their eyes--mainly people who have had 100%
irreversible paralysis from a stroke.
: > if one wants to go to college and if one wants to put the work into
Martijn J. Schuemie
On 18 Nov 1996, Marla Channon wrote:
> Most people, including myself, determine their own destiny. Psychics
> are full of crap.
>
> Marla
>
I quite agree! Most events in our life cannot be explained with
probabilities and/or rules. Going for your gut feeling is so much harder
but so much better than relying on logic and rationality.
To understand that YOU, YOUR consciousness actually may alter reality
as it is. To stop thinking that I'll never meet my soulmate and start
thinking that one day soon I will meet her.
Peace and happyness to everyone
Martijn
root
On 20 Nov 1996 22:13:39 GMT, Marla Channon <cha...@wahoo.csu.net> wrote:
>Most people (almost everyone) has choices they make in life every second.
>
>own lives. And God doesn't command anyone to do anything at any
>particular moment. We all have choices.
>
>something bothers you you can't just drive away in a car and take a
>vacation. As a child, your stuck with the way your parents treat you.
>
--
==================================================
Guess what? I don't read e-mail replies to my
Usenet posts.
==================================================
Paul Maplesden
On 19-Nov-96 16:41:09, Longhorn said about Re: Most people determine their own
destiny:
Marla Channon wrote:
>
>> There are a few instances God hands a person karmic destiny. That is
>> the epitome of the saying, "What goes around, comes around."
>>
>> When someone is violent and abuses others unjustly, one gets karmic
>> destiny. God hands to the person what that person deserves. Notice
>> murders are punished for there crimes even if they're not caught. God
>> makes sure of that.
>
>> If you're a decent, good person and treat others how you would want to
>> be treated, you probably don't have any karmic destiny.
>
>> MC
>Well said Marla! :) Proof that there is virtue in living the "Golden
>Rule".
Also, Karma can be very much a self-fulfulling prophecy, created by the
conscience to purify perception of the Soul through the application of
forgiveness. (Or something like that!)
Paul.
--
Paul Maplesden - Freelance Writer
E-Mail: pa...@chalice.u-net.com
'I'm free but I'm focussed.' A.M.
James Lopez
If I could go back to being young again. I would make very different
decisions on what to do with my life.
My choices, at the time, were limited by my experience, environment
and predispositions.
Freedom of choice is a dillusion.
I do not think that we determine our own destinies, but we may have
the options of learning from it.
--
James Lopez james...@zetnet.co.uk
Marla Channon
People who compete with others to get ahead not only waste energy, they
fall behind where they want to be.
The people who go the farthest in life set goals and go for them doing
their best. People who go the farthest think about what goals they've
set and how they can reach them not how far away they are from beating
the Joneses.
Marla
Edmond Wollmann
Marla Channon wrote:
> You can control yourself.
AND that is ALL anyone can control.
> You can influence people,
They must CHOOSE to be influenced-you are doing nothing.
> but you can't
> control anyone but yourself (unless you're a criminal--which I hope
> you're not.)
Criminals control no one either-they attract and interact with those who
believe in the idea of a "loss" of control, that is why they are
criminals. Victims and criminals both believe in the idea of a "battle"
(on some level-it may be unconscious and not readily apparent to the
person) For anyone who knows they create their reality-acts in integrity
with the knowledge that everything in their reality is their creation,
is there for their reason, a chosen reason, and nothing therefore is
"out of control". It is powerless perspectives that believe they are out
of control and must attempt to overpower the percieved threat. They feel
they are going down the tubes and try to take others with them in their
misery.
> To some degree, everyone has some control over their destiny.
and that degree is 100%
Self-Empowered- Is the recognition that you lack nothing and create your
reality 100% by what you believe and define yourself to be. It is
created from all levels of psychic material, i.e., unconscious,
conscious, collective unconscious, superconscious. You have all the
tools and all the abilities that you require at any given moment to be
anything you are willing and bold enough to believe you can define
yourself to be. You are always in control 100% even when you use 90% to
create the illusion that you only have the other 10%. No one can make
you feel inferior without your consent, and no one can affect you that
is not of a similar vibration and part of you on some level. The
recognition that the universe has no built-in meaning, is the way to
remove expectation and hence judgment from scenarios that create
negative effects.
> Marla
> Paul Maplesden (pa...@chalice.u-net.com) wrote:
> : On 19-Nov-96 16:41:09, Longhorn said about Re: Most people determine their own
> : destiny:
> : Marla Channon wrote:
> : >> There are a few instances God hands a person karmic destiny.
Karma is the momentum of the idea that you are everyone MUST have
this-whether they experience the "getting back" as positive or negative
is determined by what is put in. Effects are caused by e-motion (energy
motion) or the evalued momentum of the idea.
> That is
> : >> the epitome of the saying, "What goes around, comes around."
What you extend is what you recieve.
> : >> When someone is violent and abuses others unjustly, one gets karmic
> : >> destiny.
No! When someone extends themselves in a powerless way (which is
reflected in abusive behavior) this negativity then creates a momentum
of reality that they then live in as the effect of the chosen vibration
of powerlessness-and yes of course if you live by a sword you must die
by it as well. The vibration you are will be the reality you experience.
> God hands to the person what that person deserves.
NO! The person hands THEMSELVES what they BELIEVE they deserve-always.
Believing that God is outside of you is a powerless belief! Now since
they are one of the co-creating ways that "All That Is" has of
expressing itself-then by derivation they are God. They are out of
integrity and expressing NEGATIVE energy-which is separative and do a
disservice to all other aspects and "All That Is" itself;
Integrity- Functioning as an integrated whole self, without placing
power outside of the self, since nothing is outside of the self. The
recognition that you are as powerful as you need to be to create
whatever you desire to create in your reality without having to hurt
yourself or anyone else in order to create it. You are always a part of
the problem or of the solution, if you are not part of the solution it
is easy to figure out where you are on the scale (unless of course you
are involved as an analytically discerning or accurate empathic
observer-pls see the discernment vs judgment post). You are not
responsible for anyone only responsible to them by being as much as you
can be in integrity.
> Notice
> : >> murders are punished for there crimes even if they're not caught. God
> : >> makes sure of that.
The punishment is self inflicted-because we are not just our brothers
keeper we ARE our brother and sister-"All That Is" is simply all that
is! We are all the different ways that all that is has of expressing
itself within the creation that it is.
> : >> If you're a decent, good person
GOOD and BAD are subjective value judgments, there is only positive and
negative expression. Positive is expansive, inclusive, integrative,
unifying. Negative energy is separative, limiting, segragating,
divisive, cynical. Good and bad tells us little of true energy;
Negative beliefs do not have any more power than positive. So they are
not necessarily "unfortunate", for every being creates their reality
utterly as the product of what they believe or have been taught to
believe is true. There is no one truth, except that THE truth is
composed of all truths within any system and each system has its own
reinforcing logic. Individuals can act in positive ways or in negative
ways. Positive is simply integrative and negative is separative. But the
positive individual, by the light by which they shine, will simply show
the negative individual(s) that they are;
A) Untouchable by anything that is not of a similar vibration. And that;
B) They offer back to the negative individual(s) an offering of a
choice, a choice to also be positive. If they do not choose to be
positive then they can simply go their own way, for that which is
negative cannot exist within the blinding light of that which is
positive, it is simple mechanics. That is all. Even if the negativity is
intentional the positive person will still extract a positive effect. It
will not be a BATTLE when you know that the vibration you are is of
light and love. Negative energy cannot even FIND you let alone touch you
unless your vibration =that of the other so attracted.
> and treat others how you would want to
> : >> be treated, you probably don't have any karmic destiny.
There are only 3 absolutes in the multiverse
1) That you exist.
2) The all is one and the one is all.
3) What you put out is what you get back.
These can be created in many forms but the rest of life is a CHOICE in
creation. Everything we all ARE and have is the result of choice and
effort.
----
"Free will, will simply be the exercising of the chosen purpose, whether
from the higher consciousness level or the physiological level."
Bashar-"The New Metaphysics" 1987, page 18.
--
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
© 1996 Astrological Consulting/Altair Publications
http://home.aol.com/ewollmann
PO Box 221000 San Diego, CA. 92192-1000
(619)453-2342 e-mail woll...@mail.sdsu.edu
Marla Channon
You can control yourself. You can influence people, but you can't
you're not.)
To some degree, everyone has some control over their destiny.
Marla
Paul Maplesden (pa...@chalice.u-net.com) wrote:
: On 19-Nov-96 16:41:09, Longhorn said about Re: Most people determine their own
: destiny:
: Marla Channon wrote:
: >
: >> There are a few instances God hands a person karmic destiny. That is
: >> the epitome of the saying, "What goes around, comes around."
: >>
: >> When someone is violent and abuses others unjustly, one gets karmic
: >> destiny. God hands to the person what that person deserves. Notice
: >> murders are punished for there crimes even if they're not caught. God
: >> makes sure of that.
: >
: >> If you're a decent, good person and treat others how you would want to
: >> be treated, you probably don't have any karmic destiny.
: >
: >> MC
Brad Pettit
In article <32A7BC...@mail.sdsu.edu>, Edmond Wollmann
<woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> Criminals control no one either-they attract and interact with those who
> believe in the idea of a "loss" of control, that is why they are
> criminals. Victims and criminals both believe in the idea of a "battle"
> (on some level-it may be unconscious and not readily apparent to the
> person) For anyone who knows they create their reality-acts in integrity
> with the knowledge that everything in their reality is their creation,
> is there for their reason, a chosen reason, and nothing therefore is
> "out of control". It is powerless perspectives that believe they are out
> of control and must attempt to overpower the percieved threat. They feel
> they are going down the tubes and try to take others with them in their
> misery.
I find it amazing that you actually believe that. The simple truth is that
each one of us is constantly choosing whether to hurt or take advantage of
other people, or to help them. To say that the "victim" ALWAYS chooses to
be the target of a criminal act is New Age bullshit.
Obviously, there are times when those of "The Victim Mentality (tm)"
voluntarily put themselves in psychologically damaging situations, but
those cases are different. There is a class of crime that is truly random.
Choosing to be in a specific place at a specific time does not imply
choosing to be the target of a crime, unless the place and time one
chooses is 'on the bad side of town at 3am.'
--Brad Pettit
Edmond Wollmann
Brad Pettit wrote:
You are obviously not paying attention. You snipped the information that
determines who is out of integrity or not so I will replace it-maybe
this time before you yell bullshit you will take the time to read things
you probably haven't thought twice about. Now read this;
Integrity- Functioning as an integrated whole self, without placing
power outside of the self, since nothing is outside of the self. The
recognition that you are as powerful as you need to be to create
whatever you desire to create in your reality without having to hurt
yourself or anyone else in order to create it. You are always a part of
the problem or of the solution, if you are not part of the solution it
is easy to figure out where you are on the scale (unless of course you
are involved as an analytically discerning or accurate empathic
observer-pls see the discernment vs judgment post). You are not
responsible for anyone only responsible to them by being as much as you
can be in integrity.
Now, do you take actions according to INTEGRAL behavior? Knowing this?
Or do you believe in the dog-eat-dog, no pain no gain-only the strongest
survive perspective? This will immediately tell us WHY you experience
the reality that you do.
> In article <32A7BC...@mail.sdsu.edu>, Edmond Wollmann
> <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> > Criminals control no one either-they attract and interact with those who
> > believe in the idea of a "loss" of control, that is why they are
> > criminals. Victims and criminals both believe in the idea of a "battle"
> > (on some level-it may be unconscious and not readily apparent to the
> > person) For anyone who knows they create their reality-acts in integrity
> > with the knowledge that everything in their reality is their creation,
> > is there for their reason, a chosen reason, and nothing therefore is
> > "out of control". It is powerless perspectives that believe they are out
> > of control and must attempt to overpower the percieved threat. They feel
> > they are going down the tubes and try to take others with them in their
> > misery.
> I find it amazing that you actually believe that.
Thats because you have been brainwashed to believe the other-so I do not
find it amazing that you reject it.
> The simple truth
There is no one truth if there were only one you would be on the planet
all by yourself with yours. If you believe it you will see it and then
say "see I told you so", because your definitions create the reality.
The universe simply responds to your definitions-"I will be randomly
attacked this is the way that it IS" you believe it so strongly to be
true-you look for no other answer to refute it. It is accepted as THE
truth, this reinforces the idea that reality exists outside of you. Are
your successes random? Or are those from "good planning"?
> is that
> each one of us is constantly choosing whether to hurt or take advantage
This tells us ONLY what you think each one of us is choosing or not
choosing. I choose things based on what I prefer and what it inspires or
is a part of what I feel is my "path". Not whether I hurt or help
someone-if they are helped by me acting in integrity with what I choose
in this manner (which they most likely will because it is positive
energy) that is great. If they are not and are not interested, they can
find something else. Why does it have to be hurt or help? Some people
believe I have hurt them-others believe I have helped them-now who's
choosing what and which ones are correct?? I get e-mails everyday either
telling me to shut up-or telling me how much this helps-who is correct?
Or are there just different truths and I serve those so aligned with the
similar vibrational perspective? And don't those who aren't? I can only
act positively or negatively I CANNOT CONTROL WHAT SOMEONE CREATES OUT
OF THAT! Why does it automatically imply power OVER others in this
scenario? If someone has to FORCE their opinions on someone or use
physical force to get what they want would this be in integrity? Simple
answer (or truth as you said) don't you think? Now I will have to post
the positive negative explanation again because you got rid of that
too-now read it this time!
GOOD and BAD are subjective value judgments, there is only positive and
negative expression. Positive is expansive, inclusive, integrative,
unifying. Negative energy is separative, limiting, segragating,
divisive, cynical. Good and bad tells us little of true energy;
Negative beliefs do not have any more power than positive. So they are
not necessarily "unfortunate", for every being creates their reality
utterly as the product of what they believe or have been taught to
believe is true. There is no one truth, except that THE truth is
composed of all truths within any system and each system has its own
reinforcing logic. Individuals can act in positive ways or in negative
ways. Positive is simply integrative and negative is separative. But the
positive individual, by the light by which they shine, will simply show
the negative individual(s) that they are;
A) Untouchable by anything that is not of a similar vibration. And that;
B) They offer back to the negative individual(s) an offering of a
choice, a choice to also be positive. If they do not choose to be
positive then they can simply go their own way, for that which is
negative cannot exist within the blinding light of that which is
positive, it is simple mechanics. That is all. Even if the negativity is
intentional the positive person will still extract a positive effect. It
will not be a BATTLE when you know that the vibration you are is of
light and love. Negative energy cannot even FIND you let alone touch you
unless your vibration =that of the other so attracted.
There are only 3 absolutes in the multiverse
1) That you exist.
2) The all is one and the one is all.
3) What you put out is what you get back.
These can be created in many forms but the rest of life is a CHOICE in
creation. Everything we all ARE and have is the result of choice and
effort.
>of
> other people, or to help them. To say that the "victim" ALWAYS chooses to
> be the target of a criminal act is New Age bullshit.
You CANNOT experience anything that is not a part of you on some level.
Why are things in your life? Why were you born when you were? Why did
you answer this post? Because it was a random thing or did you choose it
based on your beliefs? Now if I continue to point out fallacies that you
hold in your thinking and they are painful you may start crying that you
are somehow a victim of this conversation-would that be disingenuous or
not? You did after all choose to answer based on beliefs you have that
MAY BE DEEPLY ROOTED YES? You must recognize that prediction is only
possible when we know the vibrational status and perspective of the
"target". I would suspect you have been a victim which is why you defend
this idea, Yes? What was the reason for this if so? And what is the
purpose of living? How does this fit in with your belief of what it is?
How did it serve you? What did you learn? If attacks are random no
amount of preparation or thinking will change it then? Is it just to be
victimized randomly and then die? To struggle and strive against others
and nature to then die? This makes a ton of sense now doesn't it? Or
perhaps there is some reason for our existence here on this planet and
things cannot just be "random". And if they are not random, what study
have you done to determine what the patterns of "nonrandomness" mean so
that you can align your perspective more with this apparent order and
purpose? I venture to guess you have hardly thought of it let alone
found anything.
> Obviously, there are times when those of "The Victim Mentality (tm)"
> voluntarily put themselves in psychologically damaging situations, but
> those cases are different.
And how is it that we differentiate between your "types"? What makes it
obvious? Please answer all these questions or you will not have made any
headway in your argument. We must define these before I can refute them.
> There is a class of crime that is truly random.
Define one example. I guarantee you I will find the choice involved.
> Choosing to be in a specific place at a specific time does not imply
> choosing to be the target of a crime, unless the place and time one
> chooses is 'on the bad side of town at 3am.'
If you believe this way, then you will experience random and supposed
underserved attacks. Because we create our reality utterly as the
product of belief. You mean to tell me that "All That Is" or God or
whatever you want to lable the driving force of the universe, just
creates and created everything so that a bunch of random events could
occur to the positive and the negative regardless of effort, awareness,
or any other variable? Then why try at all? What is the purpose behind
randomness?
Now here is the empowerment part you snipped too-why don't you try
addressing the postulates instead of just saying no, no can't be-LOOK AT
THEM and tell me why not!?
Self-Empowered- Is the recognition that you lack nothing and create your
reality 100% by what you believe and define yourself to be. It is
created from all levels of psychic material, i.e., unconscious,
conscious, collective unconscious, superconscious. You have all the
tools and all the abilities that you require at any given moment to be
anything you are willing and bold enough to believe you can define
yourself to be. You are always in control 100% even when you use 90% to
create the illusion that you only have the other 10%. No one can make
you feel inferior without your consent, and no one can affect you that
is not of a similar vibration and part of you on some level. The
recognition that the universe has no built-in meaning, is the way to
remove expectation and hence judgment from scenarios that create
negative effects.
You can try to refute it word by word if you like-I have done this
before. Many times. It will only help others understand better.
r...@accessone.com
Ed,
I have discussed my overall pleasure with a lot of your ideas but I
still remain stuck on your concept of being fully in control of our
lives by believing that we are completely whole.
I really don't think anyone here on Earth is completely whole. If
they exist I have never seen them. We can't be here and be completely
whole. The very experience of such Wholeness at all levels of our
being (including all of our concurrencies) will bring about such a
synchronicity that our vibration will bring about our ascention.
Refusing that ascention would create a karmic reaction that would
cause a fall in vibration similar to our original descent. And of
course we wouldn't be whole since we did not accept our ascention as
part of us.
Secondly, the part of your "you get what you believe" system that is
true, is the part that "if we accept that we are responsible for
having been abused" we will never heal. Such false guilt, shame, and
blame will cause a mis-identification of ourselves as the pathology
systemmic of this plane. It will keep us in the shit forever and we
will never heal and our health will suffer for it. That belief is one
of the most dangerous of the New Age concepts. Projection is a fact
of life in this plane and "shit happens" indiscriminately.
The sooner we accept that we were not responsible for our being
abused, the sooner we will feel the pain of having been betrayed in a
dangerous world and the sooner we will heal. Somewhere along the line
we just have to be humbled by the fact that there is no way to be
perfect in this world. When we accept that, we accept our humanity
and we can hea - not until.
There "is" such a thing possible as electromagnetic Wholeness and
there is a mastery of the process of healing, but there are no perfect
people in this plane. It is one thing to come here for a while as an
ascended master and teach, but it is another thing to succeed in the
healing of this plane. We took on some of the pain of this plane as a
price for coming here. We are all the ransom for the many. We are
beautiful, pure spirit entities. The only responsibility we have is
to heal ourselves and the only karma is our resistance to heal
ourselves (refusal to feel the pain). The rest is just the systemic
poisoning by this plane.
Love, Power, and Passion,
Stephen Crowl
Comprehensive Synchronicity
Edmond Wollmann
r...@accessone.com wrote:
Hello, without writing a book I will try to explain it. Please don't
take it as an attack.
> Ed,
> I have discussed my overall pleasure with a lot of your ideas but I
> still remain stuck on your concept of being fully in control of our
> lives by believing that we are completely whole.
Remember, this means ON ALL LEVELS, some of these levels are unconscious
and some have been made as a general thematic experience before
incarnation.
> I really don't think anyone here on Earth is completely whole.
EVERYONE is completely whole, and as connected as they will ever be! It
is their AWARENESS OF THE INTERCONNECTION that is wanton. Why does the
chart reflect our interconnectedness with the rest of the universe?
BECAUSE WE ARE!
> If
> they exist I have never seen them.
The ones that have become AWARE of this interconnectedness are
individuals such as buddha, christ etc. And it is believeing is
seeing-what kind of people and vibration do you see? This is the level
of your belief in your interconnectedness. The "disconnection" that is
percieved is simply a matter and manner of the focus of
consciousness-not connectedness. One you can change the other you
cannot.
> We can't be here and be completely
> whole.
This is a belief! You are already whole. Choosing to act whole will
reflect the conviction of the knowledge that you are-you are
complete-but perhaps not focused in the way you prefer.
> The very experience of such Wholeness at all levels of our
> being (including all of our concurrencies) will bring about such a
> synchronicity that our vibration will bring about our ascention.
NOT IF YOU DON'T want to! You are trying to carry the mechanics of the
belief in separateness over into awareness and spirituality. When you
reach this level of awareness it is simply that YOU RECOGNIZE that
everything is your choice-everything is your choice NOW, but like the
interconnectedness you simply chose not to acknowledge it for reasons of
focus (and of course perhaps some psychological reasons of which only
you could know through introspection). Ascension-like EVERYTHING does
not happen TO you it happens THROUGH you. Things happening TO us is the
externalized Saturnian veiw that reality exists outside of us. Christ
constantly said that he came into this world for this and that-HOW DID
HE KNOW? Because he knew his CHOICE to do so. And when threatened by
death he acknowledged this higher self choice for REASON. The only
difference in christ and us is this recognition of choice in the
creation of our reality-YOU can walk on water when you realize with full
trust and recognition that it IS YOU. He said; He who drinks from my
mouth shall be as I am. Not much to decipher there you think?
> Refusing that ascention would create a karmic reaction that would
> cause a fall in vibration similar to our original descent.
Again you are describing it as if it is some mechanical thing happening
TO you-this veiw itself is Saturnian and keeps the vibration low-I and
the father are one-the land and the king are one-the kingdom of heaven
is within-;
"The senses turn outward; man therefore looks towards what is outside
and sees not the inward being-rare is the wise man who shuts his eyes to
outward things and so beholds the atman within" The Upanishads
Einstein gave us a scientific analysis of this oneness;
"According to general relativity, the concept of space detached from any
physical content does not exist. The physical reality of space is
represented by a field whose components are continuous functions of four
independent variables-the coordinates of space and time. It is just this
particular kind of dependence that expresses the spatial character of
physical reality.
Since the theory of general relativity implies the representation of
physical reality by a continuous field, the concept of particles or
material points cannot play a fundamental part, nor can the concept of
motion."
NOr can the concept OF SEPARATENESS.
> And of
> course we wouldn't be whole since we did not accept our ascention as
> part of us.
Who "gave" that ascension? You did, so how can you be aware of your
interconnectedness and be losing control at the same time? Not possible.
> Secondly, the part of your "you get what you believe" system that is
> true, is the part that "if we accept that we are responsible for
> having been abused" we will never heal. Such false guilt, shame, and
> blame will cause a mis-identification of ourselves as the pathology
> systemmic of this plane.
NO NO NO! YOU are creating the guilt-the events DO NOT have built-in
meaning. JUDGING the self IS NOT WHAT I SAID. How do events SERVE you to
tell you ABOUT yourself? This is the question. If you are adding guilt
blame and all manner of JUDGMENT to it, that is your choice-how does it
serve you to judge yourself this way? You are INVALIDATING NUETRAL
EVENTS and insisting that they cannot serve EXCEPT to add guilt and
blame. Why? Are not the planets and aspects of your chart unfolding in
the way they need to to ASSIST you in your development? THEY ARE NOT
THERE TO THWART YOU! They are there for a reason YOUR reason. Because
before incarnation you decided this path-how could you be OFF YOURSELF.
> It will keep us in the shit forever and we
> will never heal and our health will suffer for it.
The way to heal it is to see that it is you DEFINING IT AS SHIT! That is
what keeps it shit and you in it. Redefine the NUETRAL event and
discover why you would have chosen to experience it that way. HOW CAN IT
BE TRANSFORMED INTO SOMETHING POSITIVE WHEN YOU KEEP IT DEFINED AS
SOMETHING NEGATIVE-DANGEROUS-SHIT?
> That belief is one
> of the most dangerous of the New Age concepts.
ESCAPING FROM YOUR OWN CREATIONS is the danger-these are your
definitions and you will have to redefine them lest the shit remain. It
is NOT a new age concept, every sage and prophet on this planet from the
beginning of time has told us this.
> Projection is a fact
> of life in this plane and "shit happens" indiscriminately.
That is your belief and as long as you hold it-you will see it and
experience it that way. Why do you even study metaphysics? The core idea
of ANY of these studies is to get to the recognition of the purpose of
being here on the planet. "ALL THAT IS" IS NOT SHIT HAPPENING
INDISCIMINATELY. It is all there for a reason and a positive reason-it
is up to us to discover WHAT those reasons are;
"Those who are unspiritual, do not receive the gift of God's spirit, for
they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them
because they are spiritually discerned. Those who are spiritual discern
all things, and they are themselves subject to no one else's scrutiny.
For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?
1 Corinthians 2:14
> The sooner we accept that we were not responsible for our being
> abused, the sooner we will feel the pain of having been betrayed in a
> dangerous world and the sooner we will heal.
YOU CANNOT CHANGE WHAT YOU DO NOT OWN! If you keep placing power outside
the self-how can you control it? You are a helpless victim in a chaotic
universe trampled by all manner of "externals". THIS is not healthy-and
there will NEVER be healing from something that cannot be healed. This
is an extremely negative view from someone proporting to be spiritual or
a person seeking to help others!
> Somewhere along the line
> we just have to be humbled by the fact that there is no way to be
> perfect in this world.
You are already perfect! Perfectly reflecting the idea you chose to
be-JUDGMENT of that perfection is NOT what it is all about. You are
confusing COMPLETION with perfection-no I have not completed my
exploration yes it is perfectly going as it needs to. These judgments
you hold is what denies you the empowerment and bliss you seek;
Please-read this and think about it don't just assume there is nothing
to it.-
"Allow us to refresh ourselves on the idea and the concept of,
perfection. We have discussed many times with you, the idea that in your
lives very often you are taught, that even when you create the idea and
the notion in your lives of what you call, a spiritual path. That the
reason for this is for the a-ttainment and the a-chievement of
perfection. But recognize once again as we have shared many times our
perspective is that you will never a-chieve perfection, because you are
already perfect. The idea does not mean that you will not grow, not
expand, not change, not transform, not learn something new. But it is
simply an allowance, a recognition of allowance in your lives, that at
any given moment, the idea you are being, the reality you are
expressing, the events you are experiencing, are for their own reasons
perfect in themselves. This relaxation, this attitude, this backing off
from yourself in that way rather than applying so much pressure to the
idea to BE MORE PERFECT, is what allows you to know that you can always
become a different type of perfection at any given moment, perhaps a
more expanded type. But you will always be, at any given moment, the
absolute perfect manifestation of whatever idea you are being at that
moment. Your willingness to allow that moment to be perfect in and of
itself, is what paradoxically allows you to create the next and
different perfect moment. Because unless you are willing to allow
whatever moment you are experiencing to be complete in and of itself on
all levels, then you are not allowing yourself to view and perceive all
facets of that experience, because if you do not think it is perfect as
it is, if you invalidate it and judge it in that way, in a negative
point of view, then you yourself may be shutting off aspects of that
event, of that moment that you need to see, need to be aware of, to
incorporate them into the totality of yourself so that you can get on
with the next step. Every moment is a stepping stone to the next moment,
and if you invalidate any stepping stone then you yourself remove from
the path you are, the ability to get to the next stepping stone. Always
allow each and every moment of your lives to be perfectly valid as they
are. This does not mean that you must accept that the things that are
occurring in your life are what you "should" accept or prefer. You can
always prefer your life to be the way you desire it to be. But the way
to allow yourself to create it to be the way that you desire it to be,
is to accept that the way it is now SERVES A PURPOSE and is a PART of
the path you have created yourself to be, and that what you are learning
is there for a reason, your reason! That there is something within the
scenario you want to see, you want to reflect on, you want to learn
from. And in accepting and acknowledging the way your life does unfold,
that is what gives you the recognition of the empowerment you have, to
create your life to unfold in the direction and in the manner you most
desire it to be.
So simply do allow yourself to reflect at any given moment, that no
matter what your choices, every scenario, for what it is, is a perfect
manifestation of that scenario. You can prefer perfect harmony and
perfect ecstasy, or you can prefer perfect misery. But both are perfect
expressions of the idea you are reflecting at that moment. And when you
allow it to be there for a reason, then you can extract from that
scenario, what will most assist you in reforming the idea, redirecting
yourself and creating what it is you desire to experience most in your
reality.
Many individuals will pressure themselves in many different ways to
strive, to struggle, to try, to be more perfect. Will set themselves
goals and ideals in that way, that continually denies the validity they
possess, at that moment. In that way you deny yourself all that you
truly desire as well. For if you do not believe yourself complete in
that moment, then you, by your own definition, insist that you do not
have the capability of creating what it is you say you desire to attract
into your lives. Knowing that you are complete, perhaps focused not in a
way you prefer to be, but knowing you are complete, gives you the
opportunity to know that at any given moment you have the ability to
refocus yourself in any direction you desire-you lack nothing! You have
all the tools and all the abilities you require at any given moment to
be anything you are willing and bold enough to believe you can define
yourself to be!"
Bashar February 1987 "Perfection"
> When we accept that, we accept our humanity
> and we can hea - not until.
Ego is the effect of focus-when we accept our godliness is when we are
healed-NOT EGO-but that we are ONE with the creator what do you think
the "fall" in Eden was? Here is a snippet from my book;
The knowledge of "good and evil" was the symbolic forbidden fruit that
Adam and Eve were deceived into taking a bite of.
"But the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat
of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die"
They then became aware of their nakedness and were ashamed. This
assignment of values began the judgment of paradise. We believe that we
must do something special in order to deserve to exist, and our clothing
is psychological as well as physical. These psychological clothes or
shells define belief parameters and limit our experience in the world of
opposites and polarity pairs.
In his book "Ageless Body, Timeless Mind," Deepak Chopra lists 10
assumptions of our shared world view and redefines them according to a
more expanded perspective based on quantum mechanics discovery and new
physics. It is meant to remove limiting perspectives from our accepted
references, and is based on the new world view that we create our
reality by what we define ourselves to be.
> There "is" such a thing possible as electromagnetic Wholeness and
> there is a mastery of the process of healing, but there are no perfect
> people in this plane.
There is no END result perfect, the universe will continue to unfold for
eternity.
> It is one thing to come here for a while as an
> ascended master and teach, but it is another thing to succeed in the
> healing of this plane.
As long as you define them as one thing and another they will be.
> We took on some of the pain of this plane as a
> price for coming here. We are all the ransom for the many.
NO! What special thing did you have to do in order to exist? Pain is the
effect of the resistance to growth through JUDGING WHAT IS. Because it
does not fit your insistance of what it "should" be. There is NO
INHERENT PAIN IN THIS "PLANE" these are your judgments and fears
speaking. Of the earth is also spiritual. The physical world is the
material VERSION OF SPIRIT, how is it bad? When I go for my runs through
the Pines at Torrey here in La Jolla I see NO NEGATIVITY OR PAIN. Nor do
I see it here now. Chose to be positive and it will be so JUST BECAUSE
YOU SAY SO. You do not need another reason.
> We are
> beautiful, pure spirit entities.
Yes and so everything we create is also-regardless of what negativity
you decieve yourself into thinking it is.
> The only responsibility we have is
> to heal ourselves and the only karma
KARMA IS NOT JUDGMENT! It is REaction to momentum-it is not inherently
negative-this tells us of your perspective that is all.
> is our resistance to heal
> ourselves (refusal to feel the pain). The rest is just the systemic
> poisoning by this plane.
POISONING BY THIS PLANE! Wow, no wonder why you have so much pain! So I
guess you think the "All That Is" just made a big mistake when he
created this planet! Woe is me! I happen to believe that this plane is
an exciting and diverse expression of the "All That Is" in just another
one of its diverse and glorious creations! Matter is the effect of
SPIRIT. I dare say that you would be no less negative in any other plane
and that you best get the idea that THE VIBRATION YOU ARE WILL BE THE
REALITY YOU EXPERIENCE EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME! Please, wake up and
dream the dream you prefer to dream! That is my holiday wish for all of
you.
---
"Nowhere man please listen you don't know what you're missing! The world
is at your command. He's as blind as he can be just see's what he wants
to see, nowhere man can you see me at all?" The Beatles "Nowhere Man"
r...@accessone.com
That is the trouble with subjective wholes - they are layered in
heirarchies of ever greater wholeness. The trick is moving the
consciousness from our limited version of wholeness to the next
heirarchy. There are electromagnetic locks that will prevent any
movement between heirarchies until electromagnetic purity has been
achieved at each respective vibration.
I will discuss this with you again when you, with your belief that
there is no separation, can walk through lead walls. Then your belief
will be in alignment with your knowing and you will be whole.
Until then, it appears that PROJECTION lives on!
Stephen Crowl
Comprehensive Synchronicity
Edmond Wollmann
r...@accessone.com wrote:
> That is the trouble with subjective wholes - they are layered in
> heirarchies of ever greater wholeness.
"All That Is" is all that is. It is really quite simple. That is the
infinite whole-of which holographically we contain the all of.
> The trick is moving the
> consciousness from our limited version of wholeness to the next
> heirarchy.
I just moved it to the ultimate "heirarchy".
> There are electromagnetic locks that will prevent any
> movement between heirarchies until electromagnetic purity has been
> achieved at each respective vibration.
Define these "locks"? Other than one's perspective.
> I will discuss this with you again when you, with your belief that
> there is no separation, can walk through lead walls.
"But Thomas (who was called the twin) one of the 12, was not with them
when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "we have seen the
lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see the mark of the nails in his
hands, and put my finger in the mark of the nails, and my hand in his
side, I will not believe." John 20:24-25
> Then your belief
> will be in alignment with your knowing and you will be whole.
Until you make a grandiose prediction using astrology I will not concede
it has any validity at all-sound familiar?
> Until then, it appears that PROJECTION lives on!
He who thinks he knows doesn't but he who know he doesn't know-does.
Joseph Campbell
I am quite familiar with the concept of projection-it is the primary
reason few understand themselves-which is the key to your wholism you
speak of.
"The recognition and taking to heart of the subjective determination of
knowledge in general, and of psychological knowledge in particular, are
basic conditions for the scientific and impartial evaluation of a psyche
different from that of the observing subject. These conditions are
fulfilled only when the observer is sufficiently informed about the
nature and scope of his own personality. He can, however, be
sufficiently informed only when he has in large measure freed himself
from the levelling influence of collective opinions and thereby arrived
at a clear conception of his own individuality . . . "The collective
attitude hinders the recognition and evaluation of a psychology
different from the subject's, because the mind that is collectively
oriented is quite incapable of thinking and feeling in any other way
than by projection."
Carl Gustave Jung Collected works Vol 6, Classical and Medieval Thought.
"People always speak of man and his psychology as though there were
nothing "but" that psychology. In the same way one always talks of
"reality" as though it were the only one. Reality is simply what works
in a human soul and not what is assumed by certain people to work there,
and about which predjudiced generalizations are wont to be made. Even
when this is done in a scientific spirit, it should not be forgotten
that science is not the SUMMA of life, that it is actually only one of
the psychological attitudes, only one of the forms of human thought."
Carl Gustave Jung Collected works, The Type Problem in Classical and
Medieval thought, Vol 6, page 41.
...My evenings are taken up very largely with
astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order
to find a clue to the core of psychological truth.
C. G. Jung, in a letter to Sigmund Freud.
---
"My body's aching and my time is at hand..." James Taylor
T.K. Holly
In article <32A9B4...@mail.sdsu.edu>, Edmond Wollmann
<woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> > We can't be here and be completely
> > whole.
How do YOU know? If there's some way other than the way that is normally
thought of (spiritual introflection, meditation, et.al.), please-enlighten
us!!!!!
T.K. Holly
--
..."And they did not need his solemn vow of witness, for in their hearts they knew that all they heard was true."-Alcott Allison
Edmond Wollmann
T.K. Holly wrote:
Please quote correctly I did not say the thing you quoted me as saying.
I argued against that which you have quoted.
Ed
> In article <32A9B4...@mail.sdsu.edu>, Edmond Wollmann
> <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> > > We can't be here and be completely
> > > whole.
> How do YOU know? If there's some way other than the way that is normally
> thought of (spiritual introflection, meditation, et.al.), please-enlighten
> us!!!!!
> T.K. Holly
--
> ..."And they did not need his solemn vow of witness, for in their hearts they knew that all they heard was true."-Alcott Allison
--
Dan Pressnell
r...@accessone.com wrote:
>I will discuss this with you again when you, with your belief that
>there is no separation, can walk through lead walls.
Harry Houdini once walked through a brick wall. He even assured the
audience there was no trap door in the stage by putting a seamless
carpet over the floor and having people stand on the carpet's edges.
Dan
P.S. The way he did it was to use the trap door that he insured
against using!
http://www.vvm.com/~dpressne/kook.htm
Edmond Wollmann
r...@accessone.com wrote:
> >>r...@accessone.com wrote:
> >> The trick is moving the
> >> consciousness from our limited version of wholeness to the next
> >> heirarchy.
> >Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> >I just moved it to the ultimate "heirarchy".
Of course like some of the others with less than a good amount of
integrity you removed the argument that places my statement into
context, for this reason I will no longer repond to this.
"All That Is" is all that is. That is thre ultimate heirarchy-unless you
know something the rest of us don't-my statement had nothing to do with
ego-but your response certainly did. Anyone wishing to see the truth of
my statements can follow the thread.
> Isn't that called megalomania?
Well I can see that your insight supercedes mine. Don't you feel the
slightest bit of a lack of integrity in taking this argument and
twisting it this way? I have lost respect for you.
> >>r...@accessone.com wrote:
> >> There are electromagnetic locks that will prevent any
> >> movement between heirarchies until electromagnetic purity has been
> >> achieved at each respective vibration.
> >Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> >Define these "locks"? Other than one's perspective.
> For each individual it is called an astrology chart.
That is simply the choice of path and agreement from higher self-i.e.
perspective.
> Stephen Crowl
> Comprehensive Synchronicity
---
Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.....
I have good advice and sound wisdom;
I have insight I have strength.
By me kings reign,
and rulers decree what is just;
by me rulers rule, and nobles, all who govern rightly.
I love those who love me,
and those who seek me diligently find me.
I am wisdom.
Proverbs 8
Joyce Hoen
Hi Stephen,
rc> Secondly, the part of your "you get what you believe" system that is
rc> true, is the part that "if we accept that we are responsible for
rc> having been abused" we will never heal. Such false guilt, shame, and
I have a question here:
why cannot we feel responsible WITHOUT feeling guilty?
It is precisely because we condemn ourselves (& others) and have no compassion
for any mistakes that we can hardly accept the fact that we might possibly be
able to improve ourselves, i.e. that we can hardly accept the fact that there
might be something there for improval at all.
Guilt and ego prevent a clear look at things, (Saturn mode A) and prevent us
feeling responsible for today's actions (Saturn mode B) with what we know
today, and tomorrow's actions with what we know tomorrow.
Joyce
_.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`~*-,._.,-*~'`^'`~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._
* email: joyce...@astronet.idn.nl *
* The Future is the Present liberated from the Past *
_.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`~*-,._.,-*~'`^'`~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._
---
r...@accessone.com
>>r...@accessone.com wrote:
>> The trick is moving the
>> consciousness from our limited version of wholeness to the next
>> heirarchy.
>Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
>I just moved it to the ultimate "heirarchy".
Isn't that called megalomania?
>>r...@accessone.com wrote:
>> There are electromagnetic locks that will prevent any
>> movement between heirarchies until electromagnetic purity has been
>> achieved at each respective vibration.
>Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
>Define these "locks"? Other than one's perspective.
For each individual it is called an astrology chart.
Stephen Crowl
Comprehensive Synchronicity
r...@accessone.com
>T.K. Holly wrote:
>How do YOU know? If there's some way other than the way that is normally
>thought of (spiritual introflection, meditation, et.al.), please-enlighten
>us!!!!!
The human body is only capable of vibrating up to the vibration of
Wholeness in this plane. At that point the body's vibration is so
high that it cannot be seen as it has ascended into the next heirarchy
of Wholeness. This is not new information.
I know from experience that believing that you have reached the
vibration of Wholeness "because you don't want to limit yourself" does
not mean that your body is vibrating at that vibration. I also know
from experience that experiencing the vibration of Wholeness does not
even mean that your body is vibrating at that vibration. It takes a
long time of continuously experiencing the vibration of Wholeness even
in the fastest spiritual training systems (power training with masters
that can "power transfer").
Clearing abuse issues (power issues) is critical in attaining the
vibration of Wholeness. It is extremely damaging for people healing
from their abuse trama in this lifetime to be told that it is their
fault that they were abused. Do the work yourself and see how you
feel when you are told that while you are in the delicate position of
"genuine remorse". It stops the process - maybe for lifetimes.
Do you really want to be responsible for doing that to an entire
society right at the moment in time when society has the best chance
of healing. I am doing you a favor here at much risk to myself.
I am in the process of writing a book that shows what I am saying
about Wholeness to be true based on the human chakra system and more.
There is a lot of difference between Wholeness and the Neptunian
concept of oneness with all things. Both are worth attaining but the
Neptune vibration is a far cry from Wholeness. Neptune vibration
(meditation, gurus, mantras, etc.) is just the very beginning of pure
spiritual enlightenment and is ultimately a sacrificial position. It
doesn't help this plane much if all the teacher/healers have
sacrificed themselves does it.
Frank
Hello Joyce Hoen
I am a beginning astrologer and i would like to know how i can contact
this astronet
and eventual news groups
I am speciale intressted to know more about interpretaion for horoscoops
about company's are ther any books or ather info about this subject?
Thank you in advance
frank knol
Herman Van Roey
In article <32AAFF...@mail.sdsu.edu>,
Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
>People always speak of man and his psychology as though there were
>nothing "but" that psychology. In the same way one always talks of
>"reality" as though it were the only one. Reality is simply what works
>in a human soul and not what is assumed by certain people to work there,
>and about which predjudiced generalizations are wont to be made.
I always found this a good one :
"I know of three universa : there is my universe, the one I perceive; there
is your universe, the one you perceive; and their is the objective
universe, which neither of us will ever be capable of knowing..."
Joyce Hoen
Op Maandag 09 December 1996 om 22:33 schreef Frank o.a. aan All:
F> Hello Joyce Hoen
F> I am a beginning astrologer and i would like to know how i can contact
F> this astronet
F> and eventual news groups
Hi Frank,
Well, you've made it into the Alt. Astrology newsgroup, so you obviously know
by now how to contact this particular newsgroup!
As to Astronet (for other Dutch speaking astrology fans): this is a group of
astrologers and astrology-students in Holland/Belgium with their own (offline)
email/newsgroup access and internal communications re astrology and everything
else. It is the first time ever in history I think that astrologers from a
variety of backgrounds communicate this openly with one another and share
their experiences on a day to day basis.
We are a very friendly lot:-)) have a lot of fun together and learn along the
way too. (With an entire astrology course going on simultaneously for those
interested). The group will have a conference in the Spring of next year (not
per computer but 'in real life' in Arnhem in Holland.) I've emailed you
already privately on this, but if there are any other Dutch speaking
astrologers or students interested, because anybody is welcome to join our
free-spirited gang: you may contact me or the Sysop of Astronet for further
details: Hans.te....@astronet.idn.nl
Regards,
Charles Gregory
dpre...@ns.vvm.com (Dan Pressnell) wrote:
> Harry Houdini once walked through a brick wall. He even assured the
> audience there was no trap door in the stage by putting a seamless
> carpet over the floor and having people stand on the carpet's edges.
> P.S. The way he did it was to use the trap door that he insured
> against using!
Actually, that trick is well documented, and the explanation is even simpler
than that. He had a way of performing a "quick change" that allowed him to
masquerade as one of the half-dozen or so assistants in coveralls bustling
about the stage erecting the screens. He just WALKED from one side of the
wall to the other, then did another quick change, and with the help of an
assistant who would hold up an arm that looked like Houdini's, he would do
the "I'm here, and now I'm here" schtik that appeared so amazing. He pulled
this trick on poured concrete slabs, and people were so intent figuring out
where the "trap door" was that they just never looked at the faces of the
assistants that closely. They saw six assistants, and never realized that
one of them had switched with the master of illusion.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Charles Gregory
E-Mail: cha...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca
Home Page: [J]ump to "http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab801/Profile.html"
--
Sue Armitage
Hi Ed,
I am pleased to see you quoting Jung in this way:-
>
>
> "The recognition and taking to heart of the subjective determination of
>knowledge in general, and of psychological knowledge in particular, are
>basic conditions for the scientific and impartial evaluation of a psyche
>different from that of the observing subject. These conditions are
>fulfilled only when the observer is sufficiently informed about the
>nature and scope of his own personality. He can, however, be
>sufficiently informed only when he has in large measure freed himself
>from the levelling influence of collective opinions and thereby arrived
>at a clear conception of his own individuality . . . "The collective
>attitude hinders the recognition and evaluation of a psychology
>different from the subject's, because the mind that is collectively
>oriented is quite incapable of thinking and feeling in any other way
>than by projection."
>Carl Gustave Jung Collected works Vol 6, Classical and Medieval Thought.
I am in agreement with your philosophies in general but until people
have reached a very high level of self awareness and have rid themselves
of all psychological garbage this is nothing but a coping strategy - a
house built on sand. I have thought this for a long time and am glad to
see that I am in eminent company! :-)
>
>
>...My evenings are taken up very largely with
>astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order
>to find a clue to the core of psychological truth.
> C. G. Jung, in a letter to Sigmund Freud.
As a matter of interest do you happen to know what Freud's reply was to
the above quote? Not 'How fascinating, do tell me more' I imagine!
Sue
>
Edmond Wollmann
Sue Armitage wrote:
> Hi Ed,
> I am pleased to see you quoting Jung in this way:-
Well thank you-these people have helped and continue to help me hone my
understanding of the world.
> > "The recognition and taking to heart of the subjective determination of
> >knowledge in general, and of psychological knowledge in particular, are
> >basic conditions for the scientific and impartial evaluation of a psyche
> >different from that of the observing subject. These conditions are
> >fulfilled only when the observer is sufficiently informed about the
> >nature and scope of his own personality. He can, however, be
> >sufficiently informed only when he has in large measure freed himself
> >from the levelling influence of collective opinions and thereby arrived
> >at a clear conception of his own individuality . . . "The collective
> >attitude hinders the recognition and evaluation of a psychology
> >different from the subject's, because the mind that is collectively
> >oriented is quite incapable of thinking and feeling in any other way
> >than by projection."
> >Carl Gustave Jung Collected works Vol 6, Classical and Medieval Thought.
> I am in agreement with your philosophies in general but until people
> have reached a very high level of self awareness
And how do we "get there"? I dare say-effort?
> and have rid themselves
> of all psychological garbage this is nothing but a coping strategy - a
> house built on sand. I have thought this for a long time and am glad to
> see that I am in eminent company! :-)
Not sure I understand your point.
> >...My evenings are taken up very largely with
> >astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order
> >to find a clue to the core of psychological truth.
> > C. G. Jung, in a letter to Sigmund Freud.
> As a matter of interest do you happen to know what Freud's reply was to
> the above quote? Not 'How fascinating, do tell me more' I imagine!
No I don't but I am sure you are correct. He was quite stuck on his own
Mars in Libra Rx. as the cause of everyone elses ills.
--
"Because beliefs form reality-the structure of experience-any change in
beliefs altering that structure initiates change to some extent, of
course. The status quo which served a certain purpose is gone, new
elements are introduced, another creative process begins. Because your
private beliefs are shared with others, because there IS interaction,
then any determined change of direction on your part is felt by others,
and they will react in their own fashion." Jane Roberts as "Seth" The
Nature of Personal Reality, page 90, 1974.
George C. Lindauer
Edmond Wollmann (woll...@mail.sdsu.edu) wrote:
:
: And how do we "get there"? I dare say-effort?
Actually it takes effort... but in a surprising direction. For it takes
the effort of learning how to quit using effort to do things! As long as you
use effort your activities are subject to the laws of dust... that is what
is built WILL be torn down eventually.
:
: > and have rid themselves
: > of all psychological garbage this is nothing but a coping strategy - a
: > house built on sand. I have thought this for a long time and am glad to
: > see that I am in eminent company! :-)
:
:o Not sure I understand your point.
Getting rid of things is somehow more improtatnt than gaining new ones?
:
: > >...My evenings are taken up very largely with
: > >astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order
: > >to find a clue to the core of psychological truth.
: > > C. G. Jung, in a letter to Sigmund Freud.
David
:
: > As a matter of interest do you happen to know what Freud's reply was to
Sue Armitage
In article <32B598...@mail.sdsu.edu>, Edmond Wollmann
<woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> writes
>Sue Armitage wrote:
>
>> Hi Ed,
>
>> I am pleased to see you quoting Jung in this way:-
>
>Well thank you-these people have helped and continue to help me hone my
>understanding of the world.
>
>> > "The recognition and taking to heart of the subjective determination of
>> >knowledge in general, and of psychological knowledge in particular, are
>> >basic conditions for the scientific and impartial evaluation of a psyche
>> >different from that of the observing subject. These conditions are
>> >fulfilled only when the observer is sufficiently informed about the
>> >nature and scope of his own personality. He can, however, be
>> >sufficiently informed only when he has in large measure freed himself
>> >from the levelling influence of collective opinions and thereby arrived
>> >at a clear conception of his own individuality . . . "The collective
>> >attitude hinders the recognition and evaluation of a psychology
>> >different from the subject's, because the mind that is collectively
>> >oriented is quite incapable of thinking and feeling in any other way
>> >than by projection."
>> >Carl Gustave Jung Collected works Vol 6, Classical and Medieval Thought.
>
>> I am in agreement with your philosophies in general but until people
>> have reached a very high level of self awareness
>
Effort - but pleasurable effort. :-) Therapy, exercises in self
awareness, constant self examination, if a therapist you need good
supervision. Astrology is helpful and I rather like guided imagary.
If you think of a planet which appears to you to be causing difficulty
and visualise it or draw it I find it helps the understanding of the
problem. My pluto lurks like a panther - I used to try and put a collar
on it - now I just admire the sheen on it's coat, stroke it occasionally
and accept it. :-))
>
>> and have rid themselves
>> of all psychological garbage this is nothing but a coping strategy - a
>> house built on sand. I have thought this for a long time and am glad to
>> see that I am in eminent company! :-)
>
>Not sure I understand your point.
Jung is saying (I think!) that in order to understand others you have to
understand yourself and be happy with yourself as an individual. At
this time you can begin to recognise what belongs to you and what
belongs to everyone else. Then you are able to determine your own
reality and recognise that you are doing so .....You cannot change your
beliefs until you understand the ones you held to begin with.
Until you get to this point you can listen to Wollmann philosophies (or
anyone else's that you happen to like) and agree with them and think
they are the best thing since sliced bread, but you cannot LIVE them to
any degree because they are just coping strategies which will collapse
at the first challenge.
>
>> >...My evenings are taken up very largely with
>> >astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order
>> >to find a clue to the core of psychological truth.
>> > C. G. Jung, in a letter to Sigmund Freud.
>
>> As a matter of interest do you happen to know what Freud's reply was to
>> the above quote? Not 'How fascinating, do tell me more' I imagine!
>No I don't but I am sure you are correct. He was quite stuck on his own
>Mars in Libra Rx. as the cause of everyone elses ills.
I didn't realise he had Mars Rx in Libra. Would this turn his energy
inward so he expressed it through his work? I have his chart somewhere
but can't find it. I seem to remember noticing he was heavily
relationship oriented - as well as being your average sex obsessed
Taurean :-) Mars in Libra may have been his saving grace .........
Sue
Edmond Wollmann
> >> Hi Ed,
Did I say effort was not pleasurable?
> Therapy, exercises in self
> awareness, constant self examination, if a therapist you need good
> supervision. Astrology is helpful and I rather like guided imagary.
> If you think of a planet which appears to you to be causing difficulty
Well if you stop thinking of it as something separate from you it will
be easier to deal with. The planet doesn't "cause" the difficulty-it is
our resistance to the growth implicate in the tension-which is positive
and necessary-that the "difficulty" comes from.
> and visualise it or draw it I find it helps the understanding of the
> problem. My pluto lurks like a panther - I used to try and put a collar
> on it - now I just admire the sheen on it's coat, stroke it occasionally
> and accept it. :-))
Pluto square Mercury implies a disbelief or separate belief between your
thinking (Mercury) and your power (Pluto). So this imagery allows you to
feel more empowered in your thinking? To feel more insightful and
capable of focus and significance to your mental capabilities? Because
this is where any effect of temperament may come from involving this
idea, if it helps you believe this and INTEGRATE the square then this is
positive energy (integrative, unifying, expansive) which then brings
those things believed disparate together. Then overcompensation can
cease through this owning, and resolving.
> >> and have rid themselves
> >> of all psychological garbage this is nothing but a coping strategy - a
> >> house built on sand. I have thought this for a long time and am glad to
> >> see that I am in eminent company! :-)
> >Not sure I understand your point.
> Jung is saying (I think!) that in order to understand others you have to
> understand yourself and be happy with yourself as an individual. At
> this time you can begin to recognise what belongs to you and what
> belongs to everyone else. Then you are able to determine your own
> reality and recognise that you are doing so .....You cannot change your
> beliefs until you understand the ones you held to begin with.
Right until you own them.
> Until you get to this point you can listen to Wollmann philosophies (or
> anyone else's that you happen to like) and agree with them and think
You are reflecting the belief in powerlessness I outlined in your
thinking above-IT IS YOU WHO CREATES YOUR VERSION OF WHAT WOLLMANN OR
ANYONE ELSE SAYS, it is never out of your control so there is no reason
to "worry" about whether it is useful or not, because it is you who
determines this the moment you read it, or hear it or see it-it is YOU
who is in control not me or anyone else you listen to. I do nothing but
REFLECT TO YOU THINGS YOU ALREADY KNOW if you act on them it is up to
you but you created me to reflect them to you. It is always in your
control.
> they are the best thing since sliced bread, but you cannot LIVE them to
> any degree because they are just coping strategies which will collapse
> at the first challenge.
You can LIVE anything anytime you are so willing and trust it to be
so-there are no secret requirements. When you make believing it and
knowing it and acting like it ALL ONE THING then it will be so.
> >> >...My evenings are taken up very largely with
> >> >astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order
> >> >to find a clue to the core of psychological truth.
> >> > C. G. Jung, in a letter to Sigmund Freud.
> >> As a matter of interest do you happen to know what Freud's reply was to
> >> the above quote? Not 'How fascinating, do tell me more' I imagine!
> >No I don't but I am sure you are correct. He was quite stuck on his own
> >Mars in Libra Rx. as the cause of everyone elses ills.
> I didn't realise he had Mars Rx in Libra. Would this turn his energy
> inward so he expressed it through his work?
Mars Rx is the repression and judgment of aggression as being NATURAL
and positive for a reason-so people with this condoition are fearful
that they will-or others will "hurt" each other. They therefore repress
natural instincts to a great degree because of THEIR judgment of it as
bad-they are therefore likely at some point to explode -do something out
of integrity that will then VALIDATE the belief in the inherent
selfishness of the "id", see? It is part of a pendulum of judgment
brought over from past lives because of guilt for being out of integrity
or selfishly aggressive in the past-now they run around trying to teach
everyone else the "ills" of aggression and sex (Freud).
> I have his chart somewhere
> but can't find it. I seem to remember noticing he was heavily
> relationship oriented - as well as being your average sex obsessed
> Taurean :-) Mars in Libra may have been his saving grace .........
Mars in LIbra is in Detriment in Libra-the energies of assertion are not
expressed with a belief in the conviction of the self validation but are
believed to be subservient to being "socially accepted" or aquiesent.
Everything that he tried to say about how inherently "bad" self
assertion was-it was his achilles heel not his saving grace.
---
"All I have seen teaches me to trust the creator for all I have not
seen." Emerson
Edmond Wollmann
Herman Van Roey wrote:
> In article <32B598...@mail.sdsu.edu>,
> Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
---
> >"Because beliefs form reality-the structure of experience-any change in
> >beliefs altering that structure initiates change to some extent, of
> >course. The status quo which served a certain purpose is gone, new
> >elements are introduced, another creative process begins. Because your
> >private beliefs are shared with others, because there IS interaction,
> >then any determined change of direction on your part is felt by others,
> >and they will react in their own fashion." Jane Roberts as "Seth" The
> >Nature of Personal Reality, page 90, 1974.
--
> these sure are ! I find them indispensable in combination with astrological
> insights. Though the lectures of Osho, the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky-Collin
> material, the "Swabhawat" by Saswitha, and "Handbook to Higher
> Consciousness" by Ken Keyes have helped grasping "reality" too.
Yes! It behooves all who consider themselves counselors of the psyche to
read this and many other works-including Bashar "The New Metaphysics".
Astrology is expanded and enhanced through the study and integration and
incorporation of other disciplines-and since it claims to delineate the
all of life-how can ANYONE so involved not also understand to the
greatest extent those things which they seek to delineate? Life is a
pretty big word.
Jon Dunn
And the other side of the coin:
Reality determines the belief of people. The distinction between belief
and reality is only partial or artificial, like all distinctions.
Reality is the manifestation of belief.
Individual belief is the product of reality just as surely.
There is a flow or interpenetration between what we might think of as
belief and reality.
etc etc etc
Edmond Wollmann
Jon Dunn wrote:
>
> And the other side of the coin:
> Reality determines the belief of people.
You can create this as well-as evidenced by the common perpective-the
idea is WHICH do you PREFER to create.
> The distinction between belief
> and reality is only partial or artificial, like all distinctions.
Thats because the two sides of this coin you speak of is STILL ALL ONE
COIN.
> Reality is the manifestation of belief.
Exactly because we are created in the "image" of "All That Is" which
makes us co-creators in that creation.
> Individual belief is the product of reality just as surely.
Only by choice-you can create this as I said-but why? So you can moan
and cry and complain that "reality" is always doing things "to you". And
we all know misery loves company.
> There is a flow or interpenetration between what we might think of as
> belief and reality.
Thats because-once again it is all one reality all one belief.
> etc etc etc
--
Belief system="This will be one of the aspects that creates your
artificial construct personality. It will be one of the cornerstones of
the prism of personality. The other two will be emotion and thought. It
is what is responsible for the methodology, along with the other two
ideas, of how you choose to exercise your physiological mental free will
in giving yourself the type of approach to your life that you do. It
will be responsible for the creation of your physical reality and the
reflection of that reality through your physical senses back to your
mentality."
Reality= "Will simply be an idea being expressed and experienced."
Bashar Darryl Anka, "The New Metaphysics", Light and Sound
Communications, Beverly Hills CA., 1987
Herman Van Roey
Sue Armitage
In article <32B71E...@mail.sdsu.edu>, Edmond Wollmann
<woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> writes
>Sue Armitage wrote:
>
>
>> >> I am in agreement with your philosophies in general but until people
>> >> have reached a very high level of self awareness
>
>> >And how do we "get there"? I dare say-effort?
>
>> Effort - but pleasurable effort. :-)
>
>Did I say effort was not pleasurable?
No but you didn't say it was .......
>
>> Therapy, exercises in self
>> awareness, constant self examination, if a therapist you need good
>> supervision. Astrology is helpful and I rather like guided imagary.
>
>> If you think of a planet which appears to you to be causing difficulty
>
>Well if you stop thinking of it as something separate from you it will
>be easier to deal with. The planet doesn't "cause" the difficulty-it is
>our resistance to the growth implicate in the tension-which is positive
>and necessary-that the "difficulty" comes from.
I said 'APPEARS to you to be causing difficulty'. It is obviously not
something separate and I agree that resistance to growth could be
construed as difficulty. Are you specifically talking about planets
with hard aspects to them here? Because I wasn't, when I originally
mentioned guided imagery.
>
>> and visualise it or draw it I find it helps the understanding of the
>> problem. My pluto lurks like a panther - I used to try and put a collar
>> on it - now I just admire the sheen on it's coat, stroke it occasionally
>> and accept it. :-))
>
>Pluto square Mercury implies a disbelief or separate belief between your
>thinking (Mercury) and your power (Pluto).
Did I mention anything about Pluto square Mercury? I was talking Pluto
on it's own and how I find it operates for me without mentioning
specific aspects. Just as an illustration of how guided imagery might
work really.
> So this imagery allows you to
>feel more empowered in your thinking? To feel more insightful and
>capable of focus and significance to your mental capabilities?
Well it helps me to cope with something dark lurking in the background.
I hadn't actually considered it in relation to my actual thinking as I
think it operates on a unconscious level. The imagery helps me to make
a friend of part of me that I might otherwise find a little distasteful
- being a well brought up girl :-)
> Because
>this is where any effect of temperament may come from involving this
>idea, if it helps you believe this and INTEGRATE the square then this is
>positive energy (integrative, unifying, expansive) which then brings
>those things believed disparate together. Then overcompensation can
>cease through this owning, and resolving.
I think I integrate the square and use it in my work as a counsellor.
>
>
>> Jung is saying (I think!) that in order to understand others you have to
>> understand yourself and be happy with yourself as an individual. At
>> this time you can begin to recognise what belongs to you and what
>> belongs to everyone else. Then you are able to determine your own
>> reality and recognise that you are doing so .....You cannot change your
>> beliefs until you understand the ones you held to begin with.
>
>Right until you own them.
>
>> Until you get to this point you can listen to Wollmann philosophies (or
>> anyone else's that you happen to like) and agree with them and think
>
>You are reflecting the belief in powerlessness I outlined in your
>thinking above-IT IS YOU WHO CREATES YOUR VERSION OF WHAT WOLLMANN OR
>ANYONE ELSE SAYS, it is never out of your control so there is no reason
>to "worry" about whether it is useful or not, because it is you who
>determines this the moment you read it, or hear it or see it-it is YOU
>who is in control not me or anyone else you listen to. I do nothing but
>REFLECT TO YOU THINGS YOU ALREADY KNOW if you act on them it is up to
>you but you created me to reflect them to you. It is always in your
>control.
I don't believe there is any point of creating any version of anything
new until you have sorted out what is old. So I have created my
version of what you are saying which is 'this might be useful at some
point so I will file it away for later' If I already knew what you were
telling me then I wouldn't need to file it away for later - it would
already be filed (and maybe it is but I just don't know it). I know all
this is in my control but it actually means what the dictionary
definitions of the words says it means - we are confined by language in
discerning a meaning - aren't we?
>
>> they are the best thing since sliced bread, but you cannot LIVE them to
>> any degree because they are just coping strategies which will collapse
>> at the first challenge.
>
>You can LIVE anything anytime you are so willing and trust it to be
>so-there are no secret requirements. When you make believing it and
>knowing it and acting like it ALL ONE THING then it will be so.
True - but you cannot make believing it and knowing it and acting like
it all one thing until until you have sorted out bagage from your past
and are at peace with yourself.
I have always found Mars in Libra to be particularly asexual - this is
what I meant by his saving grace - it might have occasionally made him
think of something else!
Sue
>
Edmond Wollmann
Sue Armitage wrote:
> In article <32B71E...@mail.sdsu.edu>, Edmond Wollmann
> <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> writes
> >Sue Armitage wrote:
> >> >> I am in agreement with your philosophies in general but until people
> >> >> have reached a very high level of self awareness
> >> >And how do we "get there"? I dare say-effort?
> >> Effort - but pleasurable effort. :-)
> >Did I say effort was not pleasurable?
> No but you didn't say it was .......
Tension is essential for growth what you make of it is a choice.
> >> Therapy, exercises in self
> >> awareness, constant self examination, if a therapist you need good
> >> supervision. Astrology is helpful and I rather like guided imagary.
> >> If you think of a planet which appears to you to be causing difficulty
> >Well if you stop thinking of it as something separate from you it will
> >be easier to deal with. The planet doesn't "cause" the difficulty-it is
> >our resistance to the growth implicate in the tension-which is positive
> >and necessary-that the "difficulty" comes from.
> I said 'APPEARS to you to be causing difficulty'. It is obviously not
> something separate and I agree that resistance to growth could be
> construed as difficulty. Are you specifically talking about planets
> with hard aspects to them here? Because I wasn't, when I originally
> mentioned guided imagery.
Well how can it "apparently" or otherwise cause you difficulty if you
already have integrated it?
> >> and visualise it or draw it I find it helps the understanding of the
> >> problem. My pluto lurks like a panther - I used to try and put a collar
> >> on it - now I just admire the sheen on it's coat, stroke it occasionally
> >> and accept it. :-))
> >Pluto square Mercury implies a disbelief or separate belief between your
> >thinking (Mercury) and your power (Pluto).
> Did I mention anything about Pluto square Mercury? I was talking Pluto
> on it's own and how I find it operates for me without mentioning
> specific aspects. Just as an illustration of how guided imagery might
> work really.
There's a bit of evasiveness here, obviously if you were talking of
"difficulty" percieved or otherwise, this could only happen with planets
in develoipmental tension that were being denied integration from
judgment-therefore perhaps because I know your chart, I know that this
is the most developmental IMO to your Pluto. So what I said logically
follows...
> > So this imagery allows you to
> >feel more empowered in your thinking? To feel more insightful and
> >capable of focus and significance to your mental capabilities?
> Well it helps me to cope with something dark lurking in the background.
Well if you percieve it as lurking in the background then you see it as
separate, which means it is not well integrated and you are not owning
it, which means the developmental tension resolution responsibility is
being shifted somewhere other than the self, which means that it would
be felt as "difficulty". No?
> I hadn't actually considered it in relation to my actual thinking as I
> think it operates on a unconscious level. The imagery helps me to make
> a friend of part of me that I might otherwise find a little distasteful
> - being a well brought up girl :-)
Well judging it keeps it separate and unresolved-it is the value
judgment when transformed through understanding that dissolves the
barriers between you and parts of you. See?
> > Because
> >this is where any effect of temperament may come from involving this
> >idea, if it helps you believe this and INTEGRATE the square then this is
> >positive energy (integrative, unifying, expansive) which then brings
> >those things believed disparate together. Then overcompensation can
> >cease through this owning, and resolving.
> I think I integrate the square and use it in my work as a counsellor.
Then how can it be a part you find distasteful that requires imagery?
> >> Jung is saying (I think!) that in order to understand others you have to
> >> understand yourself and be happy with yourself as an individual. At
> >> this time you can begin to recognise what belongs to you and what
> >> belongs to everyone else. Then you are able to determine your own
> >> reality and recognise that you are doing so .....You cannot change your
> >> beliefs until you understand the ones you held to begin with.
> >Right until you own them.
> >> Until you get to this point you can listen to Wollmann philosophies (or
> >> anyone else's that you happen to like) and agree with them and think
> >You are reflecting the belief in powerlessness I outlined in your
> >thinking above-IT IS YOU WHO CREATES YOUR VERSION OF WHAT WOLLMANN OR
> >ANYONE ELSE SAYS, it is never out of your control so there is no reason
> >to "worry" about whether it is useful or not, because it is you who
> >determines this the moment you read it, or hear it or see it-it is YOU
> >who is in control not me or anyone else you listen to. I do nothing but
> >REFLECT TO YOU THINGS YOU ALREADY KNOW if you act on them it is up to
> >you but you created me to reflect them to you. It is always in your
> >control.
> I don't believe there is any point of creating any version of anything
> new until you have sorted out what is old.
Then why is it in your reality? This is a subjective value judgment that
invalidates the things that are in your life because you believe that
they don't "fit", but they must fit or they would not be there. It is a
PART of your path not an interruption to it. You are a path-your chart
is you-how could there be something in your reality you are not ready
for?
> So I have created my
> version of what you are saying which is 'this might be useful at some
> point so I will file it away for later' If I already knew what you were
> telling me then I wouldn't need to file it away for later - it would
> already be filed (and maybe it is but I just don't know it). I know all
> this is in my control but it actually means what the dictionary
> definitions of the words says it means - we are confined by language in
> discerning a meaning - aren't we?
You are simply making excuses for not acting on what you know to be
true. If you see it and you know it and you don't act on it, is this
because you are filing it away for some time when you will work on it or
is this because you are fearful that what is there is "difficult", and
challenging? If a car is coming at you do you move out of the way or
file it away for when you "feel" like moving?
> >> they are the best thing since sliced bread, but you cannot LIVE them to
> >> any degree because they are just coping strategies which will collapse
> >> at the first challenge.
> >You can LIVE anything anytime you are so willing and trust it to be
> >so-there are no secret requirements. When you make believing it and
> >knowing it and acting like it ALL ONE THING then it will be so.
> True - but you cannot make believing it and knowing it and acting like
> it all one thing until until you have sorted out bagage from your past
> and are at peace with yourself.
This is just a choice of definitions you CAN do it anyway you prefer
NOW-if you wish of course-or you can create the illusion of having to
remove garbage or baggage. When do you chose to dtrop the bags? Now or
later? That is all that is at stake. If you wish go read my post on self
awareness where I discussed habits and determinism, if you have a habit
and you become aware of it and you don't change it-it is now just an
excuse.
> >> >> >...My evenings are taken up very largely with
> >> >> >astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order
> >> >> >to find a clue to the core of psychological truth.
> >> >> > C. G. Jung, in a letter to Sigmund Freud.
> >> >> As a matter of interest do you happen to know what Freud's reply was to
> >> >> the above quote? Not 'How fascinating, do tell me more' I imagine!
> >> >No I don't but I am sure you are correct. He was quite stuck on his own
> >> >Mars in Libra Rx. as the cause of everyone elses ills.
> >> I didn't realise he had Mars Rx in Libra. Would this turn his energy
> >> inward so he expressed it through his work?
> >Mars Rx is the repression and judgment of aggression as being NATURAL
> >and positive for a reason-so people with this condition are fearful
> >that they will-or others will "hurt" each other. They therefore repress
> >natural instincts to a great degree because of THEIR judgment of it as
> >bad-they are therefore likely at some point to explode -do something out
> >of integrity that will then VALIDATE the belief in the inherent
> >selfishness of the "id", see? It is part of a pendulum of judgment
> >brought over from past lives because of guilt for being out of integrity
> >or selfishly aggressive in the past-now they run around trying to teach
> >everyone else the "ills" of aggression and sex (Freud).
> >> I have his chart somewhere
> >> but can't find it. I seem to remember noticing he was heavily
> >> relationship oriented - as well as being your average sex obsessed
> >> Taurean :-) Mars in Libra may have been his saving grace .........
> >Mars in LIbra is in Detriment in Libra-the energies of assertion are not
> >expressed with a belief in the conviction of the self validation but are
> >believed to be subservient to being "socially accepted" or aquiesent.
> >Everything that he tried to say about how inherently "bad" self
> >assertion was-it was his achilles heel not his saving grace.
> I have always found Mars in Libra to be particularly asexual - this is
> what I meant by his saving grace - it might have occasionally made him
> think of something else!
The need to be appreciated by others asexual? Relationship? I don't
think I have heard that, but yes Taurus is sexual but Mars APPLIES the
energy of the sun-so this was a given that perhaps I failed to mention.
If I use capital letters it is not to be considered yelling, it is
emphasis. I use italics in my writing and since this is not available I
use capitals, I hope everyone realizes this.
--
The Essential structure of all philosophies
Positive manifestations+ -Negative manifestations
Positive action Negative re-action
allowance judgements/separation
preference/integration playing not to lose
winning/playing to win playing to lose
playing not to win losing
Where your attitude fits on this chart determines the quality of your
life.
From "The New Metaphysics" Bashar, 1987, Light and Sound Communications
Inc.
Edmond Wollmann
George wrote:
> Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote in article
> <32B710...@mail.sdsu.edu>...
> > George C. Lindauer wrote:
> > > Edmond Wollmann (woll...@mail.sdsu.edu) wrote:
> > > : And how do we "get there"? I dare say-effort?
> > > Actually it takes effort... but in a surprising direction. For it
> takes
> > > the effort of learning how to quit using effort to do things! As
> long as you
> > > use effort your activities are subject to the laws of dust...
> > This is silly-can you not use effort to become more aware?<snip..>
> Why try to escape from the wonderful
> > experience of physicality that you obviously CHOSE or you would not
> be
> > here? Action is the conviction of belief-and you can read that
> anyway
> > you like.
> Not using effort (force) is not the same as "escaping". If we
> concentrate too much on "getting there",
You are confusing the drive for material success with effort.
> we can easily forget that we
> already are "there".
Physicality is a process to go through to experience the illusion of
"becoming" what wee already are yes-but we chose to do it-why not now
"drink of this cup" as some well known person once said?
> I believe that effort should be expended on
> expressing one's creativity, for we are mainly here to create.
Thats what physical and mental and emotional or whatever you want to
lable it is-is it not?
> If I'm not mistaken, "there" refereed to self awareness. Doesn't it
> make sense that awareness would be best achieved by contemplation
> rather then effort?
No it doesn't, in astrology the oppositions and squares (the illusion of
polarity) reflect the greatest level of awareness tension (especially
oppositions). We (at least I) know that Aries/Libra is one idea
manifesting in its polarity pair-this is just the natural effect of
spirit manifesting in matter and we choose by being here to explore it
that way of which action and physical effort are a part of that choice.
> <snip>
> > > : > and have rid themselves
> > > : > of all psychological garbage
> > This is negative Sue-how about transformed to more expanded
> awareness?
> > Why does it have to be "garbage"? LIfe -the life you are living is
> your
> > path-you cannot be off yourself. Every moment is a stepping stone on
> > that path AND IF YOU INVALIDATE ANY STEPPING STONE THEN YOU YOURSELF
> > REMOVE FROM THE PATH YOU ARE THE ABILITY TO GET TO THE NEXT STEPPING
> > STONE. Always allow each and every moment to be perfectly valid as
> it
> > is. This does not mean it is what you "should' accept-
> That's true, accepting validity of an idea (concept) is not the same
> as accepting the concept itself. It's just like choosing a path at the
> crossroads. If I turn left at an intersection, does that mean that the
> turning right was not an acceptable option? Not necessarily.
Correct it is simply a preference and a choice.
> >you can always
> > create your life to be the way you desire it to be-but the way to do
> > that is to accept that the way it is NOW serves a purpose and is a
> PART
> > of the path you chose to be! And that what you are learning is there
> for
> > a reason YOUR reason-there is something within the "garbage" that
> you
> > want to see, learn, become aware of and transform. Then the garbage
> will
> > have served its purpose and will AUTOMATICALLY TRANSFORM INTO THE
> NEW
> > REALITY. You will not have invalidated your own creation that was
> there
> > and put there by you FOR you.
> > > this is nothing but a coping strategy - a
> > > : > house built on sand. I have thought this for a long time and
> am glad to
> > > : > see that I am in eminent company! :-)
> > > : Not sure I understand your point.
> > I do now, now do you understand mine? "Coping strategy" implies loss
> of
> > control, something "bad" that you learn how to "cope" with! The idea
> is
> > "well that was unexpected!!!!! How can I learn from this oh joy-oh
> > joy!!!!" It MUST be there for me because I created it for me to
> learn
> > from-whether it was an overall choice of theme before incarnation
> (as a
> > part of the chart) or as the EFFECT of my choices within it -it
> still
> > must be there for me from me! Not "I have to "cope" with these awful
> > things until I get "control" over them. This is powerless. They are
> not
> > outside of you! The kingdom is within! As long as you define knowing
> > these things and acting on them as TWO DIFFERENT THINGS-THEN THEY
> WILL
> > FOREVER REMAIN SO. Because you are creating it to be so. See?
> I don't think that coping strategies are inherently bad.
Thats not what I said-implying that things that you have created in your
reality are negative and need to be "coped with" is by implication. If
you are labling something in your life as "not correct" baggage or as
garbage it is not too easy to garner something positive from garbage and
therefore must be "coped" with. Everything is there for a reason and has
no inherent negativity that needs to be coped with-it needs
incorporation and transformation perhaps-expansion perhaps but this is
most easily accomplished by NOT invalidating it to begin with.
> As long as we
> understand that what we're "coping" with, is our own creation and
> reflection,
IT IS US, if we create our reality is it not US we are saying we need to
"cope" with? Does this make sense to say "I must cope with this arm of
mine until it gets its act together-it is YOU so if the arm needs
anything you will have to move it-not cope with it! Defining "it" as
something to be coped with removes your power to redefine it to a great
extent it must be owned AS you.
> we have a chance of seeking change within, and naturally
> outgrowing defense mechanisms. In my opinion we all have our little
> "strategies" ("well that was unexpected!!!!! How can I learn from this
> oh joy-oh joy!!!!" could be one too), and that's just a sign of
It is a RECOGNITION of the way it is-if of course you believe you create
your reality which as you can see when I press people they prove they do
not even though they consciously SAY they believe they create it. As I
said ACTION(s) are the conviction of belief, and the actions you are
prescribing DO NOT reflect the self empowering conviction of the
creation of ones reality but displace it as if it were something else. I
do not need a COPING strategy to deal with me! This reinforces
DISINTEGRATED BEHAVIOR do you see? Integrity-INTEGRAL behavior is the
functioning as if you KNOW you are one with your reality and that all
"parts" of you are in your control-this is the key to self empowerment-
How can we change something we do not own? Do you have to "cope" with
your car being dirty or do you simply wash it?
> immaturity. Sooner or later we will collectively and individually
> relinquish obsession with control and learn to enjoy chaos as much as
> order.
There is no chaos-and the order is defined by our beliefs and
preferences. It is simply a matter of choice.
> <snip...>
Read the below this time.
----
"Because beliefs form reality-the structure of experience-any
change in
beliefs altering that structure initiates change to some extent, of
course. The status quo which served a certain purpose is gone, new
elements are introduced, another creative process begins. Because
your
private beliefs are shared with others, because there IS
interaction,
then any determined change of direction on your part is felt by
others,
and they will react in their own fashion." Jane Roberts as "Seth"
The
Nature of Personal Reality, page 90, 1974.
Edmond Wollmann
> > George wrote:
> <snip>
> > > If I'm not mistaken, "there" refereed to self awareness. Doesn't
> it
> > > make sense that awareness would be best achieved by contemplation
> > > rather then effort?
> > No it doesn't, in astrology the oppositions and squares (the
> illusion of
> > polarity) reflect the greatest level of awareness tension
> (especially
> > oppositions). We (at least I) know that Aries/Libra is one idea
> > manifesting in its polarity pair-this is just the natural effect of
> > spirit manifesting in matter and we choose by being here to explore
> it
> > that way of which action and physical effort are a part of that
> choice.
> Oppositions and Squares are not exactly what I had in mind when
> talking about awareness.
Well then you do not understand astrology properly, the full moon is
FULL ILLUMINATION awareness-all oppositions are awareness tension that
require resolution of the apparency of polarity-there is no other
"reason" for this configuration. Spirit manifests-becomes CONSCIOUS this
way-all of physicality is expressed this way there are "really" only 6
basic signs, the other 6 are the EFFECT of the idea becoming physical.
>These aspects are very powerful and can be
> rather forceful about integration of different energies, however, they
"They" only reflect the energy of the universal holographic matrix or
vibrational frequencies "happening" at that moment they don't "force"
anything. The tension felt is the individuals response to the energy
with judgment-without judgment the energy is felt as excitement and
inspiration. The awareness is simply the effect of spirit manifesting as
matter and this is what it looks like when that occurs.
> do not stress awareness as much as inconjuncts tend to do. Consider
Just not true.
> the fact that signs involved in an opposition are of the same
> triplicity and a compatible quiadriplicity, so it isn't THAT difficult
> to spot similarities. Inconjunct, on the other hand ties together two
> completely different modes of operation, like cardinal fire and
> mutible earth. That's the awareness I was talking about. Geometrically
And so adjustment of perspective (inconjunct) is necessary either BEFORE
illumination or AFTER meeting the manifestation that was brought into
awareness.
> speaking, integration of one set of opposites results in a triangle,
> or a pyramid, containment of an infinite number of oppositions is a
> circle.
Yes the triune integration most easily manifested is this
configuration-hence the 3x4=12 3+4=7 unification in materiality-the
manifestation of the soul or whole self non-physically (circle) into
materiality (its DIVISION IN ANY WAY).
<snip>
> That's a perfect example. Having to "cope" with ANYTHING is just as
> silly as having to cope with your arm, because it is "acting-up".
Right so why would one need any coping strategies at all?
> I'm not prescibing "coping" or defence mechanisms to anyone. I think
> they are silly precisely because I know that I create my own reality.
> But I wasn't born with this conviction, and still remember how
> "unreal" the whole concept seemed to me when I first encountered it.
> So, if a person finds himself in a helpless situation that they must
> cope with, I would urge them to start playing a greater conscious role
> in shaping their life and accepting responsibility for their creation.
> I believe that many people who act contrary to their conscious belief
> that they create their own reality, do so because they don't want to
> accept the responsibility assosiated with it. Also, these people are a
> very good example of the effects of separation of conscious and
> unconscious facilities. So, in my opinion, for someone to consciously
> create thier reality they would have to truly believe that they can do
> it, not be afraid of their own subconscious, and accepte
> responsibility for their actions.
Yes, and theres no time like the present. It is the judgment associated
with 'failing" in that creating that creates the anxiety-so yes judging
the self has to be overcome as analytical discernment increases of this
owning. Does a child know how to fail or do they learn how to? NO!
Because there is no failing! In applying the self we learn-but as adults
we get more concerned with our "appearance" and other ego considerations
and so are reluctant to take a "chance" on our learning-in other words
JUDGE the experiences as "good or bad" (the fall from Eden) and hence
limit ourselves from the expansion we seek-as I have said life is a
series of stepping stones-if you INVALIDATE ANY stepping stone then you
yourself BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION remove from the path you are the ability
to get to the next step. In this way you create your reality. Because
believing is seeing.
> > > immaturity. Sooner or later we will collectively and individually
> > > relinquish obsession with control and learn to enjoy chaos as much
> as
> > > order.
> > There is no chaos-and the order is defined by our beliefs and
> > preferences. It is simply a matter of choice.
> That's not true, I could create chaos, can't you. :)
Well maybe I could create the ILLUSION of it, but it would still be the
product of the ordering of my beliefs:-)
George
I would like to thank everyone participating in this thread for bringing up
these wonderful books. I've read a couple of books by Seth, and found the
information indispensable in my dealings with astrological counseling. I
look forward to reading some of the other authors mentioned here.
George
Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote in article
> Herman Van Roey wrote:
>
> > In article <32B598...@mail.sdsu.edu>,
> > Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
>
> ---
> > >"Because beliefs form reality-the structure of experience-any change
in
> > >beliefs altering that structure initiates change to some extent, of
> > >course. The status quo which served a certain purpose is gone, new
> > >elements are introduced, another creative process begins. Because your
> > >private beliefs are shared with others, because there IS interaction,
> > >then any determined change of direction on your part is felt by
others,
> > >and they will react in their own fashion." Jane Roberts as "Seth" The
> > >Nature of Personal Reality, page 90, 1974.
> --
>
> > Aaah, the "Seth"material. If any books are worth their weight in gold,
> > these sure are ! I find them indispensable in combination with
astrological
> > insights. Though the lectures of Osho, the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky-Collin
> > material, the "Swabhawat" by Saswitha, and "Handbook to Higher
> > Consciousness" by Ken Keyes have helped grasping "reality" too.
>
> Yes! It behooves all who consider themselves counselors of the psyche to
> read this and many other works-including Bashar "The New Metaphysics".
> Astrology is expanded and enhanced through the study and integration and
> incorporation of other disciplines-and since it claims to delineate the
> all of life-how can ANYONE so involved not also understand to the
> greatest extent those things which they seek to delineate? Life is a
> pretty big word.
George
Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote in article <32B710...@mail.sdsu.edu>...
> George C. Lindauer wrote:
>
> > Edmond Wollmann (
woll...@mail.sdsu.edu) wrote:
>
> > : And how do we "get there"? I dare say-effort?
>
> > Actually it takes effort... but in a surprising direction. For it takes
> > the effort of learning how to quit using effort to do things! As long as you
> > use effort your activities are subject to the laws of dust...
>
> This is silly-can you not use effort to become more aware?<snip..> Why try to escape from the wonderful
> experience of physicality that you obviously CHOSE or you would not be
> here? Action is the conviction of belief-and you can read that anyway
> you like.
Not using effort (force) is not the same as "escaping". If we concentrate too much on "getting there", we can easily forget that we already are "there". I believe that effort should be expended on expressing one's creativity, for we are mainly here to create.
If I'm not mistaken, "there" refereed to self awareness. Doesn't it make sense that awareness would be best achieved by contemplation rather then effort?
<snip>
> > : > and have rid themselves
> > : > of all psychological garbage
>
> This is negative Sue-how about transformed to more expanded awareness?
> Why does it have to be "garbage"? LIfe -the life you are living is your
> path-you cannot be off yourself. Every moment is a stepping stone on
> that path AND IF YOU INVALIDATE ANY STEPPING STONE THEN YOU YOURSELF
> REMOVE FROM THE PATH YOU ARE THE ABILITY TO GET TO THE NEXT STEPPING
> STONE. Always allow each and every moment to be perfectly valid as it
> is. This does not mean it is what you "should' accept-
That's true, accepting validity of an idea (concept) is not the same as accepting the concept itself. It's just like choosing a path at the crossroads. If I turn left at an intersection, does that mean that the turning right was not an acceptable option? Not necessarily.
>you can always
> create your life to be the way you desire it to be-but the way to do
> that is to accept that the way it is NOW serves a purpose and is a PART
> of the path you chose to be! And that what you are learning is there for
> a reason YOUR reason-there is something within the "garbage" that you
> want to see, learn, become aware of and transform. Then the garbage will
> have served its purpose and will AUTOMATICALLY TRANSFORM INTO THE NEW
> REALITY. You will not have invalidated your own creation that was there
> and put there by you FOR you.
>
> > this is nothing but a coping strategy - a
> > : > house built on sand. I have thought this for a long time and am glad to
> > : > see that I am in eminent company! :-)
>
> > : Not sure I understand your point.
>
> I do now, now do you understand mine? "Coping strategy" implies loss of
> control, something "bad" that you learn how to "cope" with! The idea is
> "well that was unexpected!!!!! How can I learn from this oh joy-oh
> joy!!!!" It MUST be there for me because I created it for me to learn
> from-whether it was an overall choice of theme before incarnation (as a
> part of the chart) or as the EFFECT of my choices within it -it still
> must be there for me from me! Not "I have to "cope" with these awful
> things until I get "control" over them. This is powerless. They are not
> outside of you! The kingdom is within! As long as you define knowing
> these things and acting on them as TWO DIFFERENT THINGS-THEN THEY WILL
> FOREVER REMAIN SO. Because you are creating it to be so. See?
>
I don't think that coping strategies are inherently bad. As long as we understand that what we're "coping" with, is our own creation and reflection, we have a chance of seeking change within, and naturally outgrowing defense mechanisms. In my opinion we all have our little "strategies" ("well that was unexpected!!!!! How can I learn from this oh joy-oh joy!!!!" could be one too), and that's just a sign of immaturity. Sooner or later we will collectively and individually relinquish obsession with control and learn to enjoy chaos as much as order.
<snip...>
> ----
> "Because beliefs form reality-the structure of experience-any change in
> beliefs altering that structure initiates change to some extent, of
> course. The status quo which served a certain purpose is gone, new
> elements are introduced, another creative process begins. Because your
> private beliefs are shared with others, because there IS interaction,
> then any determined change of direction on your part is felt by others,
> and they will react in their own fashion." Jane Roberts as "Seth" The
> Nature of Personal Reality, page 90, 1974.
> --
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> © 1996 Astrological Consulting/Altair Publications
>
> PO Box 221000 San Diego, CA. 92192-1000
> (619)453-2342 e-mail
woll...@mail.sdsu.edu
>
George Danielov
http://www.octet.com/~gdanielo
gdan...@octet.com
George
Edmond Wollmann <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote in article <32B8F3...@mail.sdsu.edu>...
> George wrote:
>
<snip>
> > If I'm not mistaken, "there" refereed to self awareness. Doesn't it
> > make sense that awareness would be best achieved by contemplation
> > rather then effort?
>
> No it doesn't, in astrology the oppositions and squares (the illusion of
> polarity) reflect the greatest level of awareness tension (especially
> oppositions). We (at least I) know that Aries/Libra is one idea
> manifesting in its polarity pair-this is just the natural effect of
> spirit manifesting in matter and we choose by being here to explore it
> that way of which action and physical effort are a part of that choice.
>
Oppositions and Squares are not exactly what I had in mind when talking about awareness. These aspects are very powerful and can be rather forceful about integration of different energies, however, they do not stress awareness as much as inconjuncts tend to do. Consider the fact that signs involved in an opposition are of the same triplicity and a compatible quiadriplicity, so it isn't THAT difficult to spot similarities. Inconjunct, on the other hand ties together two completely different modes of operation, like cardinal fire and mutible earth. That's the awareness I was talking about. Geometrically speaking, integration of one set of opposites results in a triangle, or a pyramid, containment of an infinite number of oppositions is a circle.
<snip>
That's a perfect example. Having to "cope" with ANYTHING is just as silly as having to cope with your arm, because it is "acting-up".
> > we have a chance of seeking change within, and naturally
> > outgrowing defense mechanisms. In my opinion we all have our little
> > "strategies" ("well that was unexpected!!!!! How can I learn from this
> > oh joy-oh joy!!!!" could be one too), and that's just a sign of
>
> It is a RECOGNITION of the way it is-if of course you believe you create
> your reality which as you can see when I press people they prove they do
> not even though they consciously SAY they believe they create it. As I
> said ACTION(s) are the conviction of belief, and the actions you are
> prescribing DO NOT reflect the self empowering conviction of the
> creation of ones reality but displace it as if it were something else. I
> do not need a COPING strategy to deal with me! This reinforces
> DISINTEGRATED BEHAVIOR do you see? Integrity-INTEGRAL behavior is the
> functioning as if you KNOW you are one with your reality and that all
> "parts" of you are in your control-this is the key to self empowerment-
> How can we change something we do not own? Do you have to "cope" with
> your car being dirty or do you simply wash it?
>
I'm not prescibing "coping" or defence mechanisms to anyone. I think they are silly precisely because I know that I create my own reality. But I wasn't born with this conviction, and still remember how "unreal" the whole concept seemed to me when I first encountered it. So, if a person finds himself in a helpless situation that they must cope with, I would urge them to start playing a greater conscious role in shaping their life and accepting responsibility for their creation.
I believe that many people who act contrary to their conscious belief that they create their own reality, do so because they don't want to accept the responsibility assosiated with it. Also, these people are a very good example of the effects of separation of conscious and unconscious facilities. So, in my opinion, for someone to consciously create thier reality they would have to truly believe that they can do it, not be afraid of their own subconscious, and accepte responsibility for their actions.
> > immaturity. Sooner or later we will collectively and individually
> > relinquish obsession with control and learn to enjoy chaos as much as
> > order.
>
> There is no chaos-and the order is defined by our beliefs and
> preferences. It is simply a matter of choice.
>
That's not true, I could create chaos, can't you. :)
George
Pappy <sei...@pitton.com> wrote in article <01bbee7d$c7a19a00$356335ce@seidler>...
>
> Gentlemen,
> A point has been made that we are here to create. I am a painter who's
> tallents were recognized before I was three, the son of an artist, right
> opportunities for growth, never had a job, just paint for a living.
> Backgroung and Bio at:
>
> http:://www.pitton.com/~seidler/painting.htm
>
> There is no doubt in my mind that we are here to create, to add to the
> quality and growth of this plane of existance. The whole idea of changing
> steps making those new ones your destiny is plausable but the whole idea of
> destiny is a preplaned path of life. One's precieved freedom of choice in
> creating life's events may be somewhat of an illusion. Not accepting the
> idea that at any time where I can precieve that I exist, will I not have
> freedom of thought, hence an ability to select. Then the life's events
> during our existance here may be happening because we set them in motion
> before we became conscious in this world.
>
Destiny is not static. You create your "future" now. Ultimately things that we call "past", "present", and "future" exist in the same moment, so it is impossible to have a pre-planned destiny because past and the present are constantly changing the future, and vice versa.
> A rational idea if one accepts the theory that the soul exist, it is
> energy, and energy cannot be distroyed. When you have lived on the edge,
> never knowing where you will find the next client, when the gallery will
> sell the next painting, never having any savings, yet somehow the things
> needed to accomplish one's goals and survive to the next day, you come to
> think that there is a bigger plan unfolding than the one we seem to map for
> ourselves day to day.
> I don't know how many times when I didn't know where the rent is coming
> from and due, the phone would ring and from out of nowhere a job would drop
> in.
>
> Damn good planning or someone out there is watching out.
>
Or, perhaps a little bit of both. :)
> Christain Seidler
>
Pappy
Gentlemen,
A point has been made that we are here to create. I am a painter who's
tallents were recognized before I was three, the son of an artist, right
opportunities for growth, never had a job, just paint for a living.
Backgroung and Bio at:
http:://www.pitton.com/~seidler/painting.htm
There is no doubt in my mind that we are here to create, to add to the
quality and growth of this plane of existance. The whole idea of changing
steps making those new ones your destiny is plausable but the whole idea of
destiny is a preplaned path of life. One's precieved freedom of choice in
creating life's events may be somewhat of an illusion. Not accepting the
idea that at any time where I can precieve that I exist, will I not have
freedom of thought, hence an ability to select. Then the life's events
during our existance here may be happening because we set them in motion
before we became conscious in this world.
A rational idea if one accepts the theory that the soul exist, it is
energy, and energy cannot be distroyed. When you have lived on the edge,
never knowing where you will find the next client, when the gallery will
sell the next painting, never having any savings, yet somehow the things
needed to accomplish one's goals and survive to the next day, you come to
think that there is a bigger plan unfolding than the one we seem to map for
ourselves day to day.
I don't know how many times when I didn't know where the rent is coming
from and due, the phone would ring and from out of nowhere a job would drop
in.
Damn good planning or someone out there is watching out.
Christain Seidler
Sue Armitage
In article <32B8E4...@mail.sdsu.edu>, Edmond Wollmann
<woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> writes
>Sue Armitage wrote:
>
>> >> Effort - but pleasurable effort. :-)
>
>> >Did I say effort was not pleasurable?
>
>> No but you didn't say it was .......
>
>Tension is essential for growth what you make of it is a choice.
:-))
>
>
>> I said 'APPEARS to you to be causing difficulty'. It is obviously not
>> something separate and I agree that resistance to growth could be
>> construed as difficulty. Are you specifically talking about planets
>> with hard aspects to them here? Because I wasn't, when I originally
>> mentioned guided imagery.
>
>Well how can it "apparently" or otherwise cause you difficulty if you
>already have integrated it?
It is still PART of you even when it is causing difficulty. The
integration comes when the difficulty is resolved (or accepted).
>
>> >Pluto square Mercury implies a disbelief or separate belief between your
>> >thinking (Mercury) and your power (Pluto).
>
>> Did I mention anything about Pluto square Mercury? I was talking Pluto
>> on it's own and how I find it operates for me without mentioning
>> specific aspects. Just as an illustration of how guided imagery might
>> work really.
>
>There's a bit of evasiveness here, obviously if you were talking of
>"difficulty" percieved or otherwise, this could only happen with planets
>in develoipmental tension that were being denied integration from
>judgment-therefore perhaps because I know your chart, I know that this
>is the most developmental IMO to your Pluto. So what I said logically
>follows...
There is a LOT of evasiveness here because I don't want my horoscope
discussed in a public forum. Neither do I want comments as to how my
horoscope illustrates this dislike of public exposure :-)
>
>> > So this imagery allows you to
>> >feel more empowered in your thinking? To feel more insightful and
>> >capable of focus and significance to your mental capabilities?
>
>> Well it helps me to cope with something dark lurking in the background.
>
>Well if you percieve it as lurking in the background then you see it as
>separate, which means it is not well integrated and you are not owning
>it, which means the developmental tension resolution responsibility is
>being shifted somewhere other than the self, which means that it would
>be felt as "difficulty". No?
No. I still feel Pluto as my shadow (in Jungian terms) but have come to
accept it as part of me. We all have a dark side and I am no longer
afraid of mine. It has been necessary to cut from my life people who
were not able to accept this part of me as I now do. I was being
affected by their value system. OK it was my choice to allow myself to
be affected BUT, when you start being affected before you are adult
enough to recognise conscious choice, then you have to deal with it when
you realise you have choice. I now have my own value system which
allows me to integrate Pluto so it is no longer a difficulty.
>
>> I hadn't actually considered it in relation to my actual thinking as I
>> think it operates on a unconscious level. The imagery helps me to make
>> a friend of part of me that I might otherwise find a little distasteful
>> - being a well brought up girl :-)
>
>Well judging it keeps it separate and unresolved-it is the value
>judgment when transformed through understanding that dissolves the
>barriers between you and parts of you. See?
Yes I do - see above.
>
>> I think I integrate the square and use it in my work as a counsellor.
>
>Then how can it be a part you find distasteful that requires imagery?
I don't find it distasteful - other people found it distasteful and I
was affected by this - but not now and the imagery helped me with this.
A panther is a very attractive animal.
>
>> >> Until you get to this point you can listen to Wollmann philosophies (or
>> >> anyone else's that you happen to like) and agree with them and think
>
>> >You are reflecting the belief in powerlessness I outlined in your
>> >thinking above-IT IS YOU WHO CREATES YOUR VERSION OF WHAT WOLLMANN OR
>> >ANYONE ELSE SAYS, it is never out of your control so there is no reason
>> >to "worry" about whether it is useful or not, because it is you who
>> >determines this the moment you read it, or hear it or see it-it is YOU
>> >who is in control not me or anyone else you listen to. I do nothing but
>> >REFLECT TO YOU THINGS YOU ALREADY KNOW if you act on them it is up to
>> >you but you created me to reflect them to you. It is always in your
>> >control.
>
>> I don't believe there is any point of creating any version of anything
>> new until you have sorted out what is old.
>
>Then why is it in your reality? This is a subjective value judgment that
>invalidates the things that are in your life because you believe that
>they don't "fit", but they must fit or they would not be there. It is a
>PART of your path not an interruption to it. You are a path-your chart
>is you-how could there be something in your reality you are not ready
>for?
I believe in building from the foundations towards the roof - not the
other way round. Sometimes you hear a philosophy that interests you but
the time is not right to assimilate it. I believe that power comes from
firm foundations and cement of the right consistency. A philosophy that
suits you makes a good roof - but if the walls aren't strong enough the
walls won't hold up. Taurean analogy :-) Everything is in my control
because I know this. There may be something that will 'fit' at a later
date when I CHOOSE to use it. I don't have to use everything at the
same time. May be you do - and this is OK with me - but I don't.
>
>> So I have created my
>> version of what you are saying which is 'this might be useful at some
>> point so I will file it away for later' If I already knew what you were
>> telling me then I wouldn't need to file it away for later - it would
>> already be filed (and maybe it is but I just don't know it). I know all
>> this is in my control but it actually means what the dictionary
>> definitions of the words says it means - we are confined by language in
>> discerning a meaning - aren't we?
>
>You are simply making excuses for not acting on what you know to be
>true. If you see it and you know it and you don't act on it, is this
>because you are filing it away for some time when you will work on it or
>is this because you are fearful that what is there is "difficult", and
>challenging?
There is a time for everything. If you see this as making excuses maybe
this says more about you than it does about me :-)
> If a car is coming at you do you move out of the way or
>file it away for when you "feel" like moving?
In this case it is time to move ......
>
>> >> they are the best thing since sliced bread, but you cannot LIVE them to
>> >> any degree because they are just coping strategies which will collapse
>> >> at the first challenge.
>
>> >You can LIVE anything anytime you are so willing and trust it to be
>> >so-there are no secret requirements. When you make believing it and
>> >knowing it and acting like it ALL ONE THING then it will be so.
>
>> True - but you cannot make believing it and knowing it and acting like
>> it all one thing until until you have sorted out bagage from your past
>> and are at peace with yourself.
>
>This is just a choice of definitions you CAN do it anyway you prefer
>NOW-if you wish of course-or you can create the illusion of having to
>remove garbage or baggage.
Most peoples' garbage and baggage is not an illusion (and even if YOU
see it as an illusion THEY might not - and, as counsellors, we always
have to be able to see things from the other person's perspective -
don't we)
>When do you chose to dtrop the bags? Now or
>later? That is all that is at stake. If you wish go read my post on self
>awareness where I discussed habits and determinism, if you have a habit
>and you become aware of it and you don't change it-it is now just an
>excuse.
Well yes and it may be a habit that counts as baggage or garbage ....
Sue
"Speak roughly to your little boy and beat him when he sneezes
He only does it to annoy because he knows it teases" Lewis Carrol
Edmond Wollmann
Sue Armitage wrote:
> In article <32B8E4...@mail.sdsu.edu>, Edmond Wollmann
> <woll...@mail.sdsu.edu> writes
> >Tension is essential for growth what you make of it is a choice.
> :-))
> >> I said 'APPEARS to you to be causing difficulty'. It is obviously not
> >> something separate and I agree that resistance to growth could be
> >> construed as difficulty. Are you specifically talking about planets
> >> with hard aspects to them here? Because I wasn't, when I originally
> >> mentioned guided imagery.
> >Well how can it "apparently" or otherwise cause you difficulty if you
> >already have integrated it?
> It is still PART of you even when it is causing difficulty. The
> integration comes when the difficulty is resolved (or accepted).
The difficulty is BECAUSE of the rejection of it being part of you and
your resistance to the growth that is implicate in the tension and
resolution OF IT.
> >> >Pluto square Mercury implies a disbelief or separate belief between your
> >> >thinking (Mercury) and your power (Pluto).
> >> Did I mention anything about Pluto square Mercury? I was talking Pluto
> >> on it's own and how I find it operates for me without mentioning
> >> specific aspects. Just as an illustration of how guided imagery might
> >> work really.
> >There's a bit of evasiveness here, obviously if you were talking of
> >"difficulty" percieved or otherwise, this could only happen with planets
> >in develoipmental tension that were being denied integration from
> >judgment-therefore perhaps because I know your chart, I know that this
> >is the most developmental IMO to your Pluto. So what I said logically
> >follows...
> There is a LOT of evasiveness here because I don't want my horoscope
> discussed in a public forum. Neither do I want comments as to how my
> horoscope illustrates this dislike of public exposure :-)
Well I will back off if you wish but further down the page here you
continue to talk of your Pluto-which implies it can be talked about but
only YOU get to talk about it-this is the exact thing I was talking
about -about the Mercury square Pluto:-) This is one of the if you wish
"coping mechanisms" OF Plutonian defense.
> >> > So this imagery allows you to
> >> >feel more empowered in your thinking? To feel more insightful and
> >> >capable of focus and significance to your mental capabilities?
> >> Well it helps me to cope with something dark lurking in the background.
> >Well if you percieve it as lurking in the background then you see it as
> >separate, which means it is not well integrated and you are not owning
> >it, which means the developmental tension resolution responsibility is
> >being shifted somewhere other than the self, which means that it would
> >be felt as "difficulty". No?
> No. I still feel Pluto as my shadow (in Jungian terms) but have come to
> accept it as part of me.
Ah, Ah! contradiction-then it is no longer a shadow!
> We all have a dark side and I am no longer
> afraid of mine.
Then it would no longer need the coping mechanism.
> It has been necessary to cut from my life people who
> were not able to accept this part of me as I now do.
You mean choose a more positive scenario and transform your previous
perspective that created these people to reflect this belief to you.
> I was being
> affected by their value system. OK it was my choice to allow myself to
> be affected BUT,
GOOD, see its starting to sink in, if you know you created it then it is
an "and" not a "but" that follows..
> when you start being affected before you are adult
> enough to recognise conscious choice,
You ALLOW yourself to be affected-and this can happen to anyone at
anytime-it is the fall of Eden-the illusion of Saturn (Satan) and the
"realness" of the physical world. You do not have to be "adult enough"
to recognize conscious choice-you can UNLEARN previously taught
judgments at any given moment you so choose to do so. Children are LESS
affected by this Saturnian perspective-but are taught to carry the fear
and doubts along with consciuous commandment. Conscious commandment and
fear are not the same things (pls read my article on Mercurial Conscious
Commandment).
> then you have to deal with it when
> you realise you have choice. I now have my own value system which
> allows me to integrate Pluto so it is no longer a difficulty.
Then "public exposure" would be irrelevant. You would realize that you
have all the power you need and hiding cards in a poker like fashion is
unecessary. This is one of the lessons I myself am learning.
> >> I hadn't actually considered it in relation to my actual thinking as I
> >> think it operates on a unconscious level. The imagery helps me to make
> >> a friend of part of me that I might otherwise find a little distasteful
> >> - being a well brought up girl :-)
> >Well judging it keeps it separate and unresolved-it is the value
> >judgment when transformed through understanding that dissolves the
> >barriers between you and parts of you. See?
> Yes I do - see above.
Alright then it still remains separate and difficult until it is
integrated-integration = positive energy which is unifying, expansive,
INCLUSIVE. This stuff will be in my book outlined very specifically to
help in this way. It cannot be postively regarded and still be shadow.
> >> I think I integrate the square and use it in my work as a counsellor.
> >Then how can it be a part you find distasteful that requires imagery?
> I don't find it distasteful - other people found it distasteful and I
> was affected by this - but not now and the imagery helped me with this.
> A panther is a very attractive animal.
Alright it may be the beginning of integration then. When it is no
longer an issue at all-meaning not even relatable, then it will become a
working positive part integrated with the rest of the whole self.
> >> >> Until you get to this point you can listen to Wollmann philosophies (or
> >> >> anyone else's that you happen to like) and agree with them and think
> >> >You are reflecting the belief in powerlessness I outlined in your
> >> >thinking above-IT IS YOU WHO CREATES YOUR VERSION OF WHAT WOLLMANN OR
> >> >ANYONE ELSE SAYS, it is never out of your control so there is no reason
> >> >to "worry" about whether it is useful or not, because it is you who
> >> >determines this the moment you read it, or hear it or see it-it is YOU
> >> >who is in control not me or anyone else you listen to. I do nothing but
> >> >REFLECT TO YOU THINGS YOU ALREADY KNOW if you act on them it is up to
> >> >you but you created me to reflect them to you. It is always in your
> >> >control.
> >> I don't believe there is any point of creating any version of anything
> >> new until you have sorted out what is old.
> >Then why is it in your reality? This is a subjective value judgment that
> >invalidates the things that are in your life because you believe that
> >they don't "fit", but they must fit or they would not be there. It is a
> >PART of your path not an interruption to it. You are a path-your chart
> >is you-how could there be something in your reality you are not ready
> >for?
> I believe in building from the foundations towards the roof - not the
> other way round. Sometimes you hear a philosophy
Here is the problem!-the philosophy IS the foundation-for it is from
this that reality is created see?! The "rest of the building" is built
from this ALWAYS.
> that interests you but
> the time is not right to assimilate it.
NOT POSSIBLE! Please everyone interested actually read this and try to
assimilate it;
"Allow us to refresh ourselves on the idea and the concept of,
perfection. We have discussed many times with you, the idea that in your
lives very often you are taught, that even when you create the idea and
the notion in your lives of what you call, a spiritual path. That the
reason for this is for the a-ttainment and the a-chievement of
perfection. But recognize once again as we have shared many times our
perspective is that you will never a-chieve perfection, because you are
already perfect. The idea does not mean that you will not grow, not
expand, not change, not transform, not learn something new. But it is
simply an allowance, a recognition of allowance in your lives, that at
any given moment,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the idea you are being, the reality you are expressing, the events you
are experiencing, are for their own reasons perfect in themselves. This
relaxation, this attitude, this backing off from yourself in that way
rather than applying so much pressure to the idea to BE MORE PERFECT, is
what allows you to know that you can always become a different type of
perfection at any given moment, perhaps a more expanded type. But you
will always be, at any given moment, the absolute perfect manifestation
of whatever idea you are being at that moment. Your willingness to allow
that moment to be perfect in and of itself, is what paradoxically allows
you to create the next and different perfect moment.
Because unless you are willing to allow whatever moment you are
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
experiencing to be complete in and of itself on all levels, then you are
not allowing yourself to view and perceive all facets of that
experience, because if you do not think it is perfect as it is, if you
invalidate it and judge it in that way, in a negative point of view,
then you yourself may be shutting off aspects of that event, of that
moment that you need
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to see, need to be aware of, to incorporate them into the totality of
yourself so that you can get on with the next step. Every moment is a
stepping stone to the next moment, and if you invalidate any
stepping
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
stone then you yourself remove from the path you are, the ability to get
to the next stepping stone.
Always allow each and every moment of your lives to be perfectly valid
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
as they are. This does not mean that you must accept that the things
that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
are occurring in your life are what you "should" accept or prefer. You
can always prefer your life to be the way you desire it to be.
But the way to allow yourself to create it to be the way that you
desire
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
it to be, is to accept that the way it is now SERVES A PURPOSE and is a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
PART of the path you have created yourself to be, and that what you are
learning is there for a reason, your reason! That there is something
within the scenario you want to see, you want to reflect on, you want to
learn from. And in accepting and acknowledging the way your life does
unfold, that is what gives you the recognition of the empowerment you
have, to create your life to unfold in the direction and in the manner
you most desire it to be.
So simply do allow yourself to reflect at any given moment, that no
matter what your choices, every scenario, for what it is, is a perfect
manifestation of that scenario. You can prefer perfect harmony and
perfect ecstasy, or you can prefer perfect misery. But both are perfect
expressions of the idea you are reflecting at that moment. And when you
allow it to be there for a reason, then you can extract from that
scenario, what will most assist you in reforming the idea, redirecting
yourself and creating what it is you desire to experience most in your
reality.
Many individuals will pressure themselves in many different ways to
strive, to struggle, to try, to be more perfect. Will set themselves
goals and ideals in that way, that continually denies the validity they
possess, at that moment. In that way you deny yourself all that you
truly desire as well.
For if you do not believe yourself complete in that moment, then you,
by
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
your own definition, insist that you do not have the capability of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
creating what it is you say you desire to attract into your lives.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Knowing that you are complete, perhaps focused not in a way you prefer
to be, but knowing you are complete, gives you the opportunity to know
that at any given moment you have the ability to refocus yourself in any
direction you desire-you lack nothing! You have all the tools and all
the abilities you require at any given moment to be anything you are
willing and bold enough to believe you can define yourself to be!"
> I believe that power comes from
> firm foundations and cement of the right consistency. A philosophy that
> suits you makes a good roof
No, it is the foundation of the entire multiverse! Belief and ideation
is the FOUNDATION OF THE PHYDSICAL AND NON-PHYSICAL UNIVERSE! It is not
just a "nice" topping. How can you believe that you create your reality
by what you believe and then say AFTER everything is created I will put
belief on top of it??? What do you "believe" the foundation is made of?
This will be your foundation-not your roof.
> - but if the walls aren't strong enough the
> walls won't hold up.
What are these walls made of but belief? UNDERSTANDING EXPANDS BELIEF.
HENCE STRENGTHENS WALLS AND FOUNDATIONS.
> Taurean analogy :-) Everything is in my control
> because I know this.
Then when you change the foundational philosophy the YOU WILL SEE IT I
GUARANTEE IT. And if you know it the foundation is the ONLY THING that
needs any tinkering with correct? Because then you KNOW the external
MUST change as the natural effect. "Can you not believe without seeing
Thomas?"
> There may be something that will 'fit' at a later
> date when I CHOOSE to use it.
IF IT IS THERE YOU ALREADY CHOSE IT UNCONCIOUS THOUGH IT MAY BE!
Are not things traceable to astrological aspects? (yes) Therefore who
chose the agreements and chart? (you) Therefore if you create your
entire reality how can it NOT FIT NOW? You may want to reflect and
incorporate it over time but each moment will be a recreation of a new
moment with a new "fitting". It is the REJECTION of it as yours and
there for a reason that CREATES THE PAIN AND "DIFFICULTY".
> I don't have to use everything at the
> same time. May be you do - and this is OK with me - but I don't.
What? Use everything at the same time? Are you not using everything you
are at this moment to respond to this? Whatever is not there obviously
is not being used-whatever you are being now is everything you are NOW.
> >> So I have created my
> >> version of what you are saying which is 'this might be useful at some
> >> point so I will file it away for later' If I already knew what you were
> >> telling me then I wouldn't need to file it away for later - it would
> >> already be filed (and maybe it is but I just don't know it). I know all
> >> this is in my control but it actually means what the dictionary
> >> definitions of the words says it means - we are confined by language in
> >> discerning a meaning - aren't we?
> >You are simply making excuses for not acting on what you know to be
> >true. If you see it and you know it and you don't act on it, is this
> >because you are filing it away for some time when you will work on it or
> >is this because you are fearful that what is there is "difficult", and
> >challenging?
> There is a time for everything.
And if it is there and you are aware of it, how can there be a "better"
time to incorporate it? "Better" is a subjective value judgment. A
"better" time will never arise-because none are "better" than another.
> If you see this as making excuses maybe
> this says more about you than it does about me :-)
How? Yes there are times when I see myself making excuses to escape my
own creations-this is how I am able to identify them with you-from my
own introspection. Been there done that.
> > If a car is coming at you do you move out of the way or
> >file it away for when you "feel" like moving?
> In this case it is time to move ......
And if something is in your reality because YOU are the ONLY one
creating it it MUST be the time to move.
> >> >> they are the best thing since sliced bread, but you cannot LIVE them to
> >> >> any degree because they are just coping strategies which will collapse
> >> >> at the first challenge.
> >> >You can LIVE anything anytime you are so willing and trust it to be
> >> >so-there are no secret requirements. When you make believing it and
> >> >knowing it and acting like it ALL ONE THING then it will be so.
> >> True - but you cannot make believing it and knowing it and acting like
> >> it all one thing until until you have sorted out bagage from your past
> >> and are at peace with yourself.
> >This is just a choice of definitions you CAN do it anyway you prefer
> >NOW-if you wish of course-or you can create the illusion of having to
> >remove garbage or baggage.
> Most peoples' garbage and baggage is not an illusion (and even if YOU
> see it as an illusion THEY might not - and, as counsellors, we always
> have to be able to see things from the other person's perspective -
> don't we)
Yes and by seeing it-assist them in DISARMING the reality of the baggage
by helping them REDEFINE it as the illusion that it is! If someone is in
quicksand is it more helpful for me to stand on firm ground and extend a
long branch to pull them out-or to get in with them and both of us sink
in the same struggle?
> >When do you chose to drop the bags? Now or
> >later? That is all that is at stake. If you wish go read my post on self
> >awareness where I discussed habits and determinism, if you have a habit
> >and you become aware of it and you don't change it-it is now just an
> >excuse.
> Well yes and it may be a habit that counts as baggage or garbage ....
Well a habit-BY DEFINITION is unconscious mode of behavior you are
unaware of-therefore if you are now aware of it as a habit-then it is no
longer a habit and it is now an excuse to continue to carry the belief
(baggage or garbage) now that you are aware of and have identified it as
such. If you don't prefer it, then don't continue to ACT like it is true
for you, ACT like the new definition you prefer-ACTION IS THE CONVICTION
OF BELIEF-you see these things may sound wrote when I repeat them but
they are founded on a firm and complete philosophy (foundation) and I am
concerned with others getting the TOOLS at least to redefine the reality
if they no longer prefer it-whether they see the "well thought-out-ness
of what I say is secondary and I know will come out in discussion if
necessary BECAUSE I TRUST THAT EVERYTHING IS THERE IN MY REALITY NOW FOR
A REASON MY REASON. And that the WORST possible thing that could happen
BY me acting and moving forward with it-is that I will learn what I need
to learn for the next moment-to get on with the next moment-in a series
of moments that always lead where I need to go and to what I need to
learn for FURTHER moments-until it can be seen that it is a
synchronistic and powerful explosion of accord and creation in
effortless expansion that is ONLY "difficult" when I doubt that it is. I
guarantee anyone if they are truly seeking and hang in there with me
they will discover something of value to serve in something I say. I am
always served by everyone I interact with. I am so glad to see the
thread I started go off in so many interesting directions!
If you don't find what I am saying helpful we can stop or take it
private if you wish. But I am going on hiatus to work on some things for
a while-happy holidays!
> Sue
> "Speak roughly to your little boy and beat him when he sneezes
> He only does it to annoy because he knows it teases" Lewis Carrol
--
"Your inside is out and your outside is in, your outside is in and your
inside is out so come on, come on, everybody's got something to hide
'cept for me and my monkey! The Beatles "Everybody's Got Something To
Hide"