The 'Always-Backfiring' Love Spell Propaganda (was Spells ...)
lorax666
silver...@yahoo.com (DriftingFeathers):
> ...I have friends who dabbled
perhaps the problem was that they were dabbling rather than
seriously studying their spells. your information is third,
probably fourth-hand.
> and love/attraction spells always backfire and do so badly
now if they always backfired, there would be a quick reputation
built up around them that they are too dangerous to attempt.
your assertions are illogical and extreme.
lorax666
Asiya
news:HIkL8.8470$3w2....@typhoon.sonic.net...
> silver...@yahoo.com (DriftingFeathers):
>
> > and love/attraction spells always backfire and do so badly
>
> now if they always backfired,
I don't know about "always" backfire. But love spells designed to
attract a specific person often backfire if the target learns of the
manipulation, or when the spellcaster's issues that made 'em feel they
could only get a lover through magick come to light.
> there would be a quick reputation
> built up around them that they are too dangerous to attempt.
They do have a reputation of being foolish, and among those that
believe in karma or similar things, of being dangerous.
Asiya
nagasiva
the propaganda about lovespells always backfiring seems to come
from religiomagical cultures antagonistic to Low Magic.
silver...@yahoo.com (DriftingFeathers):
>>> and love/attraction spells always backfire and do so badly
"lorax666":
>> now if they always backfired,
"Asiya" <asiya_...@SATNAMatt.net>:
> I don't know about "always" backfire. But love spells designed to
> attract a specific person often backfire if the target learns of the
> manipulation,
not necessarily, but likely. a limited and social breakage.
> or when the spellcaster's issues that made 'em feel they
> could only get a lover through magick come to light.
your presumption that this is the only way is strange.
examples of desperate people do not prove that all who
use magic are desperate. I'd suggest that yours is an
overly-biased assessment based on your experiences,
whereas in some cultures spells are just one of the
ways that we can help ourselves along.
>> there would be a quick reputation built up around them
>> that they are too dangerous to attempt.
> They do have a reputation of being foolish,
in certain circles. in others, ignorance of their power
and their reliability for bringing what and who one
wants to the witch of power is what is foolish. fiction
may be full of admonishing moralism geared to influence
our acts towards charity and nonviolence, but where the
notion of what constitutes violation begins and ends in
a *magical* sense varies considerably and with little
regard to what moralists may desire.
> and among those that believe in karma or similar things,
> of being dangerous.
I have no evidence that karma exists except as the action
surrounding agents of change. I have evidence that people
using love spells think these spells have helped them.
warrants my further study.
nagasiva
Tom
"lorax666" <naga...@yronwode.SPAMcom> wrote in message
news:HIkL8.8470$3w2....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
> silver...@yahoo.com (DriftingFeathers):
> > ...I have friends who dabbled
>
> perhaps the problem was that they were dabbling rather than
> seriously studying their spells. your information is third,
> probably fourth-hand.
How do you "seriously study" spells? At what point do you think "dabbling"
turns into "serious study"?
Tom
"nagasiva" <naga...@yronwode.SPAMcom> wrote in message
news:LTlL8.8473$3w2....@typhoon.sonic.net...
> 5002060405 VIom
>
> the propaganda about lovespells always backfiring seems to come
> from religiomagical cultures antagonistic to Low Magic.
They come from the tendency to think that what you believe is what always
happens. The propaganda about spells always succeeding comes from that
very same tendency.
Spells don't always backfire or always succeed. Nor can it be clearly
established that the spell "caused" the effect. The determination of
causality becomes very confusing when magick is involved.
David Cantu
shorter than it needs to be, but perhaps it will be a start.
An impulse of any kind will dissipate into its environment, and will always
do so along paths of least resistance.
If the environment of a spell is researched fully, then it is possible to
create conditions that conform to this behavior and lead to the result
desired. One aspect of spell casting that Spare emphasized was the need to
forget that the spell has been cast, and in a sense to just act and think as
if the spell just is the way things must be (probably bad wording there).
One reason that this is important is due to the lowered resistance that
knowing of the spells existence creates in the caster. In many cases the
caster themselves then become the path of least resistance that the spell
will take towards manifestation. Conversely, one way to lower resistance in
the other direction is to plant the spells existence into the subconscious
of the victim.
Another problem is that sometimes a desperate person sets up many (many,
many, many) spells and they all get tangled up with one another.
Another problem is that if the spell succeeds in capturing a mate, the
caster will always have doubts as to the true nature of the relationship,
and though they can dismiss this at a conscious level, they will bury it in
the subconscious where it will grow into an uncontrollable complex with
unforeseen manifestations.
"lorax666" <naga...@yronwode.SPAMcom> wrote in message
news:HIkL8.8470$3w2....@typhoon.sonic.net...
Asiya
news:LTlL8.8473$3w2....@typhoon.sonic.net...
> silver...@yahoo.com (DriftingFeathers):
> >>> and love/attraction spells always backfire and do so badly
>
> "lorax666":
> >> now if they always backfired,
>
> "Asiya" <asiya_...@SATNAMatt.net>:
> > I don't know about "always" backfire. But love spells designed to
> > attract a specific person often backfire if the target learns of
the
> > manipulation,
>
> not necessarily, but likely. a limited and social breakage.
>
> > or when the spellcaster's issues that made 'em feel they
> > could only get a lover through magick come to light.
>
> your presumption that this is the only way is strange.
> examples of desperate people do not prove that all who
> use magic are desperate. I'd suggest that yours is an
> overly-biased assessment based on your experiences,
> whereas in some cultures spells are just one of the
> ways that we can help ourselves along.
heh I have never heard of anyone who could attract a specific person
with their own qualities, use spells to "help them along". If you had
a steady source of income, easily able to meet financial obligations,
and wanted to buy a new TV, would you cast a money spell to "help it
along"?
Ah well. Perhaps I'm just too biased towards sensible people.
> >> there would be a quick reputation built up around them
> >> that they are too dangerous to attempt.
>
> > They do have a reputation of being foolish,
>
> in certain circles. in others, ignorance of their power
> and their reliability for bringing what and who one
> wants to the witch of power is what is foolish. fiction
> may be full of admonishing moralism geared to influence
> our acts towards charity and nonviolence, but where the
> notion of what constitutes violation begins and ends in
> a *magical* sense varies considerably and with little
> regard to what moralists may desire.
Sure. But then do you acknowledge that there is "violation" in there
somewhere?
> > and among those that believe in karma or similar things,
> > of being dangerous.
>
> I have no evidence that karma exists except as the action
> surrounding agents of change. I have evidence that people
> using love spells think these spells have helped them.
"Helped" them in what way, specifically?
Asiya
Asiya
news:ldqL8.196152$Q42.8...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
Excellent points, David.
Asiya
Ilya Shambat
> caster will always have doubts as to the true nature of the relationship,
> and though they can dismiss this at a conscious level, they will bury it in
> the subconscious where it will grow into an uncontrollable complex with
> unforeseen manifestations.
My ex-girlfriend did a love spell on me. I drove to Portland, OR from
Virginia to pick her up. The magick was spectacular. We had sex five
times a day, wonderful conversations and took trips to places. There
was a charge in the air about us, an intoxicating feeling, a sense of
power and hypnosis. It lasted for several months, then we got tangled
up with a black magickian and our magick was destroyed. We rebuilt the
relationship based on something other than magick and it lasted for
three and a half years.
Olu Dada, Queen of Squirls
> "David Cantu" <dc...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message news:<ldqL8.196152$Q42.8...@typhoon.austin.rr.com>...
> > Another problem is that if the spell succeeds in capturing a mate, the
> > caster will always have doubts as to the true nature of the relationship,
> > and though they can dismiss this at a conscious level, they will bury it in
> > the subconscious where it will grow into an uncontrollable complex with
> > unforeseen manifestations.
>
> My ex-girlfriend did a love spell on me. I drove to Portland, OR from
> Virginia to pick her up. The magick was spectacular. We had sex five
> times a day, wonderful conversations and took trips to places. There
> was a charge in the air about us, an intoxicating feeling, a sense of
> power and hypnosis.
It was great, wasn't it? I remember showing you the sigil I'd made after
we met. It was possibly a mistake; at the time I hadn't realized how
rude it is to risk creating an obsession in another person's mind. Of
course it *seems* fair, since there's one in yours and all.
On the karma tip, there is such a mechanism in my reality. It couldn't
be more blatant or obvious if it tried. All it is is getting the
opportunity to see things from the other guy's point of view. It's
interesting. Innocent mistakes are made in ignorance; thanks to
karma, you can shed this as you go. It's a way of learning how not
to fuck up.
> It lasted for several months, then we got tangled
> up with a black magickian and our magick was destroyed. We rebuilt the
> relationship based on something other than magick and it lasted for
> three and a half years.
One exciting lesson I learned about magick is that if you're going to
do it, do it in privacy and silence. Failure to shut up is the
royal road to pointless drama.
L
Ilya Shambat
> > My ex-girlfriend did a love spell on me. I drove to Portland, OR from
> > Virginia to pick her up. The magick was spectacular. We had sex five
> > times a day, wonderful conversations and took trips to places. There
> > was a charge in the air about us, an intoxicating feeling, a sense of
> > power and hypnosis.
>
> It was great, wasn't it? I remember showing you the sigil I'd made after
> we met. It was possibly a mistake; at the time I hadn't realized how
> rude it is to risk creating an obsession in another person's mind. Of
> course it *seems* fair, since there's one in yours and all.
I don't think you created an obsession in my mind. I understood what
you felt and believed that such a feeling deserves to have a
manifestation. I also wanted to get you to a better place. I didn't
get really obsessed with you until later, and that was on your own
merits and not because of the magick you did. Though the poetry-group
Sam did tell me that he thought you put me under an occult influence.
He is an interesting man.
> On the karma tip, there is such a mechanism in my reality. It couldn't
> be more blatant or obvious if it tried. All it is is getting the
> opportunity to see things from the other guy's point of view. It's
> interesting. Innocent mistakes are made in ignorance; thanks to
> karma, you can shed this as you go. It's a way of learning how not
> to fuck up.
Instant karma is a good idea. Thanks for telling me about it. I used
it when I went on my Taoist trip in 2000 and had a great time. It's
not just a way of learning not to fuck up, it's a way of learning
about the character of one's actions and the character of life as a
whole. Few things give one more insight than being able to know
immediately what it is that one's doing, and few things allow one a
better chance to fix one's mistakes.
> > It lasted for several months, then we got tangled
> > up with a black magickian and our magick was destroyed. We rebuilt the
> > relationship based on something other than magick and it lasted for
> > three and a half years.
>
> One exciting lesson I learned about magick is that if you're going to
> do it, do it in privacy and silence. Failure to shut up is the
> royal road to pointless drama.
It contaminates the power of the intent with the thoughts and beliefs
of other people. The Wiccan book says that after one does a spell one
should stop thinking about it so that one refrains from undoing it. I
was never able to keep a secret, so I have had problems doing this.
I've been doing a lot of work inside my mind to overcome this undoing
routine that I have, and I don't know if it's a script, an
astrological configuration or accumulation of years of neglect.
lorax666
>> and their reliability for bringing what and who one
>> wants to the witch of power is what is foolish. fiction
>> may be full of admonishing moralism geared to influence
>> our acts towards charity and nonviolence, but where the
>> notion of what constitutes violation begins and ends in
>> a *magical* sense varies considerably and with little
>> regard to what moralists may desire.
> ...Moralist view points are based upon personal beleif systems.
> The only way I can see this being relavent is if the individual
> is wiccan. And there are many more types of magick then wicca.
moralist views apply to any religious network or group which
espouses a dogma pertaining to magic (e.g. cosmology).
>>> and among those that believe in karma or similar things,
>>> of being dangerous.
>>
>> I have no evidence that karma exists except as the action
>> surrounding agents of change. I have evidence that people
>> using love spells think these spells have helped them.
>> warrants my further study.
> I do not understand this last comment. What do you mean by I have no
> evidence that karma exist, except as the action surrounding agents of
> change.
the term 'karma' MEANS action. identity is fluctuating, one acting
as an agent of change one century (trigger, catalyst, etc.) is a
dispersed batch of minerals and chemicals during the next.
> I see the actions of karma every day.
karma *is* action. if you see action, you see karma.
> I also see those who follow the heed, and those that do not.
> Just because you have no personal evidence of something does
> not mean it is not so.
recommendations to act on something which one sees no evidence
for existence is not very persuasive.
> I do not know how TV's work, but they still do. I can see they do.
I can see that action exists. I see nothing which attaches or
associates that action with any person or object except in
terms of physical things, like momentum, kinetic energy, etc.
those who believe in adhering gook which is bad for them (called
"karma") are self-deluding, from what I can tell, imagining a
substance called 'karma' and that it perverts their will. just
because it is imagined doesn't mean it has no effect (especially
as a limiting concept in the mind of the magician).
lorax666
Steve
> >> and their reliability for bringing what and who one
> >> wants to the witch of power is what is foolish. fiction
> >> may be full of admonishing moralism geared to influence
> >> our acts towards charity and nonviolence, but where the
> >> notion of what constitutes violation begins and ends in
> >> a *magical* sense varies considerably and with little
> >> regard to what moralists may desire.
From what I have seen, it is not really the morality that screws people, it
is understanding of basic mechanics... If you poison your own food supply,
you die. Even a dog knows not to dirty its own bed, but the power hungry
are often also stupid. They think it should all be easy and they can do
whatever they want. Thats like joining a chess tounament without knowing
the rules and expecting to win. Just stupid.
> those who believe in adhering gook which is bad for them (called
> "karma") are self-deluding, from what I can tell, imagining a
> substance called 'karma' and that it perverts their will. just
> because it is imagined doesn't mean it has no effect (especially
> as a limiting concept in the mind of the magician).
Easy again... look at the continuous results from ones own actions, and one
can find one's Kharma. If you are a heroin freak, and you look at other
heroin freaks, you can see very clearly what lies ahead for you. What stops
people from seeing what is right before their eyes is the human capacity for
denial. 'I will get away with it' they think, with no idea as to how, or
what will happen if they don't.
Kharma is action? OK, I'll buy that. Every action in this world leads to a
reaction, which leads to a reaction, and so on. It doesn't take too much
forthought to see what the end result of your action will be, but it does
take honesty.
If you are a murderer, and are honest with yourself, and smart enough to
cover your tracks, you will probably get away with it. But if you keep
killing, eventually the evidence WILL stack up, and you will be caught.
Likewise, if you are a thief, better to not get too greedy! You take the
wrong thing from the wrong person, or leave a fingerprint anywhere, you will
be screwed. If you screw your friends, you wont have any.
On the flip side, even though it is said that the good die young; and while
they can be taken advantage of; they generally have more friends, and are
happier in their lives, and live longer. They have better marriges, closer
communities, are less likely to have their kids wind up in prison.
This is not morality, it is common sense. It is in fact Kharma, and it is
not some psyco-mysterious force, it is simply what the world looks like with
a little common sense.
me
