Curse of those who were famous (or infamous)
Sky
for 'myself'. My past self, which then felt more real to me than this new
life into which I was born this time around. I "knew" I had left an imprint
that could be found somewhere, somehow. The feeling was rather like I had
buried a secret somewhere, like buried treasure, and I was born with the map
to it inside me, but the pieces were all jumbled and jagged, and had to be
sorted out.
As soon as I learned how to walk, I was out the door and gone every chance I
got, looking for 'roadsigns' that would take me "home". My parents didn't
understand my habit of running off, nor did they understand my insistence,
when I learned how to talk, that I had another mother somewhere, and another
home.
I can remember so well sitting in front a mirror when I was practically a
baby and staring at myself, thinking to myself more or less the wordless
thought: "How the hell did I get into this baby suit?" (Has anyone else had
a similar experience as a very small child?)
I think it's true that anyone knowing about reincarnation who left a small
imprint on history for either good or bad is cursed, in some ways. After you
unbury the secrets and know what your name once was, you can't comfortably
talk about it except to your closest friends. If you're like me, part of you
wants to talk about it very much and sort it out, but another part of you
feels protective of the past life and very reluctant to open up.
One of the criticisms non-believers have about reincarnation is that a lot
of people who believe in it believe they were famous in previous lives. I
know there can't be 1000 Cleopatras reincarnate today, or multiple Winston
Churchills, etc., but all the same I wonder if souls who left a little trace
of existence in a history book somewhere are more likely to come back
believing in reincarnation, because they're born with a sense of knowing
they left a 'tangible' echo of who they were.
Any thoughts on this?
Not quite awake yet **Sky
**Sky
~~~~ Better to live with one spider than many bugs.
Nick Argall
"Sky" <Sky-Di...@no-dreck-please.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:LUCdne16F7Z...@comcast.com...
> One of the criticisms non-believers have about reincarnation is that a lot
> of people who believe in it believe they were famous in previous lives. I
> know there can't be 1000 Cleopatras reincarnate today, or multiple Winston
> Churchills, etc., but all the same I wonder if souls who left a little
trace
> of existence in a history book somewhere are more likely to come back
> believing in reincarnation, because they're born with a sense of knowing
> they left a 'tangible' echo of who they were.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
The only humans I think I might have been are thinkers who wrote books,
whose books have a particular resonanance with me. So I don't talk about
who they are, partly because I'm sure people would think I'm insane, partly
because I can tell for certain whether I'm making it up anyway, and partly
because I've decided it's not terribly important anyway.
(Because the only thing we can influence is the 'now' - and whether our
mental formations are based on 'truth' or 'imagining' is less important than
the choices we make based on those mental formations.)
Nick
Steve S.
less articulate. I didn't understand what I was feeling, except that much of
my childhood was taken with a strong feeling of nostalgia and frustration,
to get back something I knew I'd lost or forgotten. I knew I should have
understandings, abilities, states of consciousness I didn't have, and I
wanted them back. I was missing someone, too--grieving over someone
desperately, and I didn't know who (still don't).
When I was 2 years old, I was given a panda teddy-bear which had a music box
inside that played "Brahm's Lullaby". My parents said I cried so much every
time I heard it that they had to cut the music box out. But I remember it
very clearly. That song evoked a depth of grief that no-one would suspect in
an infant. In fact, if I want to, I can still remember something of what it
felt like, as I write this. When I had a past-life psychic reading a few
years ago, I asked about that. She said in a past life I had had two
children, both of whom died of some disease while I watched, helpless. She
said I wanted to die in their place but could not.
Now, to the issue of famous people. I think Andy Warhol was on to something
when he talked about "15 minutes of fame". In the long run over many
lifetimes, from that perspective, I think it's like that. Eveybody has to
experience everything eventually, and fame is one of the things you have to
experience. But there are *so many* ways to have the subjective experience
of being famous. Think of all the politicians, war heroes, literary heroes,
etc. etc. etc. there have been in so many different cultures. I think it's a
matter of building up karmic energy and focus (chi, perhaps?) over several
lifetimes, until it manifests in a lifetime with some degree of fame. (I was
listening to an album by Eric Johnson, the guitarist day before yesterday
with headphones on, at work. He has a complete mastery of his instrument,
and I was thinking that he *must* have been a violin virtuoso in previous
centuries to have that mastery now).
But, in terms of *finding* one's past-life self, the odds are quite a bit
improved for finding a life which had enough notariety to end up chronicled
somewhere. Thus, there's a process of selection which may account for more
famous past lives being found--not just megalomania and wish-fulfillment, as
scoffers would have it.
I've interviewed Jenny Smedley, and have gotten to know her as a friend.
Jenny wrote "Ripples" about memories of having been married to (the former)
Garth Brooks in a previous life. I was quite skeptical at first, but I will
say that I have never met a more sincere and solid person. Also quite savvy
with a quick intuitive grasp of matters spiritual. I believe her case is
genuine. Likewise Jeff Keene, who believes he was Gen. John B. Gordon of the
Confederacy. Each of them have some degree of objective proof--though not up
to the standards of investigators like Stevenson. Both of these people are
solid citizens, with no signs of self-aggrandizement.
I was told by the same psychic that I have a couple lifetimes which had some
minor fame attached to them--one as a medical researcher who almost came up
with the germ theory of contagion after a lifetime of (rather compulsive)
study; and the other, a writer of serial fiction in the 1800's. I've made
some half-hearted attempts to track them down but so far no success. I have
a few clues here and there, but it's not a major focus for me. I'm too busy
living this life. I'm pretty sure I've never had it better, in terms of my
spiritual and creative life, than I do now, although I think I've had it a
lot better materially, which is a source of frustration. So locating my past
is intruiguing, but since the information doesn't seem to be forthcoming I'm
not going to make an obsession of it.
Steve S.
"Sky" <Sky-Di...@no-dreck-please.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:LUCdne16F7Z...@comcast.com...
suzee
> I can remember so well sitting in front a mirror when I was practically a
> baby and staring at myself, thinking to myself more or less the wordless
> thought: "How the hell did I get into this baby suit?" (Has anyone else had
> a similar experience as a very small child?)
Similar I guess. I was maybe five or so and remember looking at myself
in the mirror and wondering how I started out as a boy and ended up as a
girl. At a slightly younger age, I told my much older brother who was
trying to touch the top of a high gate post that I used to be able to
reach that high. I'm sure he thought I was just being `cute'.
sue
Matthew Brant
> of people who believe in it believe they were famous in previous lives. I
> know there can't be 1000 Cleopatras reincarnate today, or multiple Winston
> Churchills, etc., but all the same I wonder if souls who left a little trace
> of existence in a history book somewhere are more likely to come back
> believing in reincarnation, because they're born with a sense of knowing
> they left a 'tangible' echo of who they were.
My thoughts on people who believe that they were famous people (or
present at a famous event) in a former life are two-fold. My first
reaction is an alarm bell, because as you say, there must be at least
1000 Cleopatras around these days - and if all the people who claimed
they were on the Titanic really were, no wonder it sunk with all that
extra weight!
Having said that, it is of course quite possible that the soul of
Cleopatra is alive in a human being somewhere on this planet, but
probably not in any of the egotists who claim it. The same goes for
other famous people. Somewhere out there, the likes of Darwin,
DaVinci, Queen Victoria and Einstein may well be walking amongst us.
Maybe sitting next to us on the bus!
However, in terms of whether being famous in a former life makes you
more likely to believe in reincarnation, or remember the experience,
maybe not. I think the reasons why people remember their former lives
is more personal than how large an echo they left behind on society.
From my own "memories" and from what I have read of other people's
experiences, it seems that past life memories often resurface when
there is an unresolved issue from a particular life, which continues
to intrude itself into later lives. Or, a memory may come at a certain
point in your current life where there is an issue which is relevant
to a former experience.
Kind Regards,
Matthew Brant.
Sky
news:3DD7B8...@nidlink.com...
Makes you wonder, doesn't it, where this vast "imagination" children possess
comes from? We're just remembering, but there are always grownups around
telling us what wonderful imaginations we have.
At the age of 3 my nephew often talked about when he was a grown man, when
he owned a big house, when he died - but his mother always discouraged him
from talking about his previous life. She repeatedly told him all of that
was just his imagination, until he finally stopped talking about it.
Btw, I'm glad you believe we can be born into either gender. The sexist idea
that souls are either male or female is just plainly wrong - you (and I) are
proof of that.
**Sky
xxxxxx We are one species. ~ Carl Sagan xxxx
Sky
news:utf3a81...@corp.supernews.com...
: Thanks for sharing your experiences. My feelings in childhood were a lot
: less articulate. I didn't understand what I was feeling, except that much
of
: my childhood was taken with a strong feeling of nostalgia and frustration,
: to get back something I knew I'd lost or forgotten. I knew I should have
: understandings, abilities, states of consciousness I didn't have, and I
: wanted them back. I was missing someone, too--grieving over someone
: desperately, and I didn't know who (still don't).
Missing someone seems to go with the territory, doesn't it? I wonder if that
kind of lonely melancholy is part of prompts us to recall that we've been
through this way before. Sometimes perhaps we're really missing our past
selves, too.
: When I was 2 years old, I was given a panda teddy-bear which had a music
box
: inside that played "Brahm's Lullaby". My parents said I cried so much
every
: time I heard it that they had to cut the music box out. But I remember it
: very clearly. That song evoked a depth of grief that no-one would suspect
in
: an infant. In fact, if I want to, I can still remember something of what
it
: felt like, as I write this. When I had a past-life psychic reading a few
: years ago, I asked about that. She said in a past life I had had two
: children, both of whom died of some disease while I watched, helpless. She
: said I wanted to die in their place but could not.
Your parents must have been completely perplexed by your behavior. And you
were experiencing more grief than your little mind could comprehend.
I lost two babies in this lifetime, so we have something in common. I never
had the opportunity to rear a child, but I spent a lot of time when I was
younger thinking about how to nurture a child from a reincarnationist point
of view, to gently encourage memories that all children have. To never
discourage memories.
: Now, to the issue of famous people. I think Andy Warhol was on to
**Sky
......... A smile is the best facelift.
suzee
> Btw, I'm glad you believe we can be born into either gender. The sexist idea
> that souls are either male or female is just plainly wrong - you (and I) are
> proof of that.
In spite of my young thought, I didn't really understand the
implications. It didn't really occur to me that we switched geneders in
different lifetimes till about 10 years ago when I first heard the idea.
I think that I've spent more lives as a man than woman; though I have a
very obvious female form this time, I feel that I have a lot more male
energy. I'm more comfortable hanging around being one of the guys, than
I am around women. I don't know what to talk about with women.... <g>
sue
Thotful560
I was both male and female, well to do and destitute, and often somewhere in
between on the economic scale.
I wonder if those who feel that they were famous were somehow closely attached
to the famous person in a past life?
Relative, spouse, lover, child, best friend?
The memories may be so striking and similar, but the point of view can only be
ascertained with careful questioning by a qualified hypnotherapist..(which I am
NOT).
My memoreis have surfaced on their own during dreams and while using a
regression CD set. If I don't fall asleep I have vivid and surprising insights
and memories! Not at all what I expect to *get*.
I usually expect to *get* something pertaining to myself alone...and instead I
discover that one of my kids was my child before. Amazing.
Teresa
suzee
> I wonder if those who feel that they were famous were somehow closely attached
> to the famous person in a past life?
> Relative, spouse, lover, child, best friend?
I've heard that this may sometimes be the case. Either a relative, or
slave/servant.
sue
Nick Argall
>
> Nick Argall <nicka...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:aMAB9.5547$nK4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> :
> : The only humans I think I might have been are thinkers who wrote books,
> : whose books have a particular resonanance with me. So I don't talk
about
> : who they are, partly because I'm sure people would think I'm insane,
> partly
> : because I can tell for certain whether I'm making it up anyway, and
partly
> : because I've decided it's not terribly important anyway.
> :
> : (Because the only thing we can influence is the 'now' - and whether our
> : mental formations are based on 'truth' or 'imagining' is less important
> than
> : the choices we make based on those mental formations.)
>
>
are
> a bit here and there, with ghosts from the past, at the same time. I
believe
> there must be a reason for this, a reason for the memories, nostalgia, and
> sometimes anguish of past lives. When we carry the past with us, it
becomes
> the "now" in a sense.
Very true. But there's a price to be paid for everything. To disconnect
significantly from 'then', one needs a powerful motivation to do so. So I
am blessed and cursed, and the cosmic books balance once again.
Nick
fiziwig
<snip> :
> I can remember so well sitting in front a mirror when I was practically a
> baby and staring at myself, thinking to myself more or less the wordless
> thought: "How the hell did I get into this baby suit?" (Has anyone else
> had a similar experience as a very small child?)
I recall very clearly laying in my crib looking up at my hands and thinking
"How strange it is to be small again."
--gary
Sky
news:fIED9.1733$IA3.35...@twister1.starband.net...
:
: <snip> :
I see very small babies become captivated by their hands, flexing tiny
fingers in front of their faces, mesmerized by the movement, and I always
think they must be contemplating the same revelation you experienced.
I'd say some babies seem delighted by the discovery that they've been
reborn, some seem perplexed (maybe the fundamentalist Christians?), and
occasionally a baby looks distressed to see tiny fingers waggling before
their eyes. If only we could read their minds...
** Sky
Clones are people two.
Dick
<Sky-Di...@no-dreck-please.comcast.net> wrote:
>Matthew Brant <ma...@brant.com> wrote in message
>news:6373987e.02111...@posting.google.com...
>: "Sky" <Sky-Di...@no-dreck-please.comcast.net> wrote in message
>: > One of the criticisms non-believers have about reincarnation is that a
>lot
>: > of people who believe in it believe they were famous in previous lives.
>I
>: > know there can't be 1000 Cleopatras reincarnate today, or multiple
>Winston
>: > Churchills, etc., but all the same I wonder if souls who left a little
>trace
>: > of existence in a history book somewhere are more likely to come back
>: > believing in reincarnation, because they're born with a sense of knowing
>: > they left a 'tangible' echo of who they were.
>:
>: My thoughts on people who believe that they were famous people (or
>: present at a famous event) in a former life are two-fold. My first
>: reaction is an alarm bell, because as you say, there must be at least
>: 1000 Cleopatras around these days - and if all the people who claimed
>: they were on the Titanic really were, no wonder it sunk with all that
>: extra weight!
>
>
>(You made me laugh out loud at that part.)
>
>I suppose people tend to define themselves in relation to personalities and
>events around them, throughout most of our lives. If we don't meditate or
>get in touch with our inner selves once in awhile, we're doomed to become
>rather like non-entities to some extent, perpetually set in 'response' mode.
>When a catastrophic event happens, like the sinking of Titanic, I believe it
>can *feel* personal, even though we're not literally a part of it. The
>details of Titanic's sinking could make such a strong impact on us that in
>retrospect from a future life her sinking might seem more vivid to us than
>any single moment from our own 1912-era lives. Then when James Cameron's
>movie comes to life, traumatic memories are triggered we had vicariously
>experienced through past-life emotional empathy, and the explanation could
>feel like "I was there".
>
>In fifty years there could be tens of thousands of people who will claim
>they died in the 9/11 WTC tragedy. I could be one of them. I'm an ex New
>Yorker still emotionally tied to Manhattan, but I'd have been as traumatized
>if I'd never lived in NYC. As someone who thinks about suicide at least once
>a month because the world is just too cruel and insane to her, I was in real
>pain for at least two weeks straight after the WTC disaster, as I tried to
>comprehend the incomprehensible enormity of that deliberate tragedy. I cried
>until I was sick, several times. I think the pain went to my soul, so I'll
>probably 'remember' that experience and may wonder if I was one of those who
>died.
>
I have no memories of past lives, but am quite impressed by
Stephenson's book, "23 cases Suggestive of Reincarnation."
I was quite surprised by the overwhelming impact the 9/11 tragedy had
on me. I live in a small town in West Texas, have no relatives in
NYC, single, so direct identity with family loss, and yet I cried
almost constantly the first week as I watched the unfolding drama.
Stories of courage and loyalty often bring a lump in my throat, but
the 9/11 scenes just didn't dissipate.
I wondered at the time, if I wasn't absorbing some of the pain of
those directly suffering, in some cosmic sense. As I write the lump
comes back. I have had no personal loss approaching the magnitude of
those loses of 9/11 and yet I hurt so deeply for them.
Off topic, but it helps to share.
>: Having said that, it is of course quite possible that the soul of
>: Cleopatra is alive in a human being somewhere on this planet, but
>: probably not in any of the egotists who claim it. The same goes for
>: other famous people. Somewhere out there, the likes of Darwin,
>: DaVinci, Queen Victoria and Einstein may well be walking amongst us.
>: Maybe sitting next to us on the bus!
>
>
>At least we may have read about DaVinci so many times, in so many lives,
>that his name seems decidedly more familiar than any of our former names
>might. Repetitious recognition is probably one explanation for the many who
>seem to identity with Cleopatra and Napoleon, etc.
>
>: However, in terms of whether being famous in a former life makes you
>: more likely to believe in reincarnation, or remember the experience,
>: maybe not. I think the reasons why people remember their former lives
>: is more personal than how large an echo they left behind on society.
>: From my own "memories" and from what I have read of other people's
>: experiences, it seems that past life memories often resurface when
>: there is an unresolved issue from a particular life, which continues
>: to intrude itself into later lives. Or, a memory may come at a certain
>: point in your current life where there is an issue which is relevant
>: to a former experience.
>
>I agree, there's a reason why we remember - something unresolved. Sometimes
>it's so very hard, though, to recognize what that might be.
>
>**Sky
>_____ Perception rules the world. If you don't believe me, I'm wrong.
>
Dick
I have heard speculation that we are working in groups, changing
relationships, but same souls working in changing roles. Any one else
read such or have this opinion?
suzee
> I have heard speculation that we are working in groups, changing
> relationships, but same souls working in changing roles. Any one else
> read such or have this opinion?
Yes, I've heard of it. It may be a possibile explanation; we
remember/know the lives of others in our group.
sue
Thotful560
>Date: 11/23/02 6:14 AM Pacific
>I have heard speculation that we are working in groups, changing
>relationships, but same souls working in changing roles. Any one else
>read such or have this opinion?
>
For myself, I know that I have encountered many family and extended family
members in many lives. My parents, sister, niece and several co-workers seem to
keep joining me at some point.
BUT, I can't tell if they are in my life because of past committments (karma)
or the fact that we might simply *want* to be together, having enjoyed a close
bond over many lifetimes. Call it the comfort level....
Perhaps a little of both?
Teresa
fiziwig
Dick <di...@christophers.net> wrote in message
news:873vtuom3ng8q5rvu...@4ax.com...
Yes. This is a pretty common believe. I believe the most detailed
examination of the idea is in two books by Dr. Michael Newton called
"Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls". Two very excellent books that
focus more on the between life state rather than on past lives. The Seth
material found in a number of Jane Roberts' books also goes into that
concept, but from a slightly different angle. Theosophy also teaches that,
and there's quite bit in the books by Alice Bailey, although I personally
find her work a bit on the fringe, and I don't really quite trust it.
--gary
fiziwig
Thotful560 <thotf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021123125207...@mb-cl.aol.com...
Teresa, Take a look at Michael Newton's "Journey of Souls". I found it
answered so many of those questions to my own personal satisfaction.
--gary
James Follett
She certainly believes in the "Shoot the Messenger" school of logical
thought.
When I advised her that she fallen in a vanity literary agency scam
and furnished supporting evidence, she got quite stroppy with me.
Quite abusive but I have a broad back and a sense of humour.