Is astrology at all useful for the question of: Aggression-"Domestic Violence"?
Edmond Wollmann
Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
> > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > "[..]There will be evidence in my upcoming book-the first Califonia highway
> > > patrol convicted of violating a woman's civil rights (by murdering her)
> > > came to me for astrological consulting regarding the case that was
> > > eventually successfully prosecuted by the FBI.
> > > Not only did I know he was capable of it by the chart but that he did it
> > > by the same measures.[..]"
> > > Here is a chart of a convicted felon: how would you rate this chart as to
> > > a propensity for violence? What specifically might you expect from this man in
> > > terms of criminal acts?
"a profound issue of control-sexual conflicts are the greatest and it is
here I believe the crimes of seeking power over others would be
greatest."
HHHmmm I would say to the skeptics, this looks like proof of astrology
here-perhaps?
First I will assume the correctness of the chart-I don't believe you
have Einstein's correct chart so I will qualify it by saying the chart
you present here, with a glance, without complete analysis-is a very
powerless perspective-difficulty maintaining stability, takes things
profoundly personal and has a difficulty maintaining a stable day-to-day
balanced perspective. A disbelief in natural assertion allows for
repression that then explodes in outbursts of "need to prove" scenarios.
Did not percieve the nurture from the mother as a valid
identity-overcompensates by seeking to exact perfection from others-a
profound issue of control-sexual conflicts are the greatest and it is
here I believe the crimes of seeking power over others would be
greatest. There is tremendous energy that seeks validation-OCD evident,
strong reflection of antisocial pathology. Inability for conscious
control of drives and reflection of the rights of others-it is the
control issue the convicted belief in the lack of it-that drives this
person to seek tremendous self assertion in a negative way-can't seem to
find a sense of validity to his sense of self and its application in the
physical world-the parental situation was very traumatic. It was a very
a strong possibility of his own sexual violation that leads to these
beliefs of powerlessness in the reception of love and caring from his
view-a DIS belief in the positiveness of physicality-that it is
inherently evil. A difficulty in the extreme of seeing the self through
reflection. Which leads to totally incorrect assessments and
attributional errors of others "motives" and thinking.
Of course these are "leads" that a thorough analysis would confirm or
deny as I did more work-I hope you are knowledgable enough of astrology
to realize the work I would have to do to give more sure and concise
information-that right now I do not have the time to do-nor may I ever
do it just for the sake of proving my prowess to you or anyone else.
Thats as far as I can go, I haven't looked at all the placements-just a
few observations.
+-------<11> 7Ari57----<10> 4Pis29-----<9> 9Aqu33-----------+
| | Moo 0Ari10 | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
<12>20Tau00----|-----------------------------|-----19Cap06<8>
| Ven 26Gem28 | Astrolog 5.20 chart | |
| Ura 28Gem31 | Name Withheld | |
| | Mon Jul 26 1948 3:17am | |
| | Elmira, NY | |
<1>29Gem28-----| DT -05:00, 76:48W 42:06N |-----29Sag28<7>
| Mer 16Can25 | UT: 7:17, Sid.T: 22:25 | |
| | Placidus Houses | |
| | Tropical / Geocentric | |
| | Julian Day = 2432758.8035 | Jup 19Sag46r |
<2>19Can06-----|-----------------------------|-----20Sco00<6>
| Sun 3Leo11 | Plu 14Leo13 | | |
| | Sat 23Leo08 | | |
| | | | |
| | | Mar 5Lib20 | Nep 10Lib32 |
+----------- 9Leo33<3>----- 4Vir29<4>----- 7Lib57<5>--------+
--
> Yes, one could read it the way you have, and it is my opinion that people
> have a tendency to read the actual person that way. There's only one problem, he
> is a total pacifist and lifelong vegetarian.
Irrelevant I was not only correct in my analysis but his reality
confirms my philosophical postulates as well, because your reality
always is created by the beliefs you hold and if you review my outline
(brief as it is) his reality perfectly conforms to those definitions I
identified.
> He is basically a political prisoner.
> His crime amounts to paying three male teenage prostitutes for consentual sex.
Well, thats where I said he was criminally oriented now didn't I? Now
tell the groups here how much info I had about this person other than
your one statement where you tried to fool me into thinking he was
violent?:-)
> These persons came to his house soliciting. Two of the teens were currently
> charged with multiple burglaries, and the third charged with sexual assault while
> he was a patient at the psych center. When it was also discovered that they had in
> the past had this sex for money arrangement with our subject here, a political
> gadfly, the DA was more than happy to use the very willing testimony of the teens
> to rid himself of a nuisance fond of exposing local corruption.
Oh well that makes his whole integrity unquestionable now does it? I was
correct and I will stand by the other definitions I outlined because I
know they are there.
> I don't happen to like the idea of bi-sexual men having sex with teen
> prostitutes, but this is guy who has a MA in Education, and never had so much as a
> parking ticket.
Irrelevant. This is where I identified him giving power away and
creating that type of reality experience is a given from what I can see
in the chart-not a judgment just a discernment of belief momentum.
> He is now doing 81/3 to 25 years because his being a closet gay was
> politically exploitable.
No, he's in jail because he committed a crime, does not believe in his
own power as I stated initially, is out of integrity, and believes that
physicality is evil-as I said-hence the vibration you are will be the
reality you experience EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME-IT ALWAYS WORKS THIS
WAY-IT NEVER DOESN'T WORK AND NO ONE IS EXEMPT.
"Inability for conscious control of drives and reflection of the rights
of others-" REREAD WHAT I SAID anyone so inclined and tell me I was not
correct!
> Because the world really is the way it is, I hesitate to
> mention the people who arranged this absurd melodrama.
Rationalization is a very out of integrity characteristic you have-one
that I became aware of early on. THIS world is the way it is because WE
create it to be so-and this mans and my own reality are created by what
we believe and have been taught to believe is true UTTERLY as I so aptly
demonstrated can be seen by ASTROLOGY-proven right here NOW.
> After long reflection, it seems to me that the idealism of this
> political activist, and the guilt or shame he must have associated with his being
> attracted to young men, had eventually become an urge to be martyred--simply
> because he felt he should be punished. Once the accusations were made against
> him, he did everything in his power to get himself convicted and the worst
> sentence he could manage--in for a penny, in for a pound...Once he had been
> publicly shamed by this sexual disgression, which could have been
Well I told you he had a belief that the material world was "bad and
evil" now didn't I? When are you going to get it! HE CREATED THAT
REALITY. No one did anything TO him because life happens THROUGH YOU NOT
TO YOU. YOU have Mars in Libra-it would behoove you to change that
belief as well. Reality is not foisted upon us.
>pleaded to
> misdeanor statusas was the case of a local police officer, I think he would have
> kept after whoever he might find useful to this esculating, self-defeating cycle.
> Frankly I don't understand any of it. I think his being an devout atheist was
> important to understanding him, but I be a long time really making sense of this
> guy's self-designed persecution....he was one happy kid with no complaints.
So say you and he. Everyone does not understand their own psyche with
precision, that is part of the service I find to be my inspiration. To
assist in that move toward clarity.
The reality's always confirm my perception-TWO ways to see the person's
beliefs. The chart and the life-makes no difference to me BOTH will be
the perfect reflection of the idea we choose to be.
If we don't prefer them we can change them at any given moment. But we
must OWN it FIRST.
--
"Up in your sterilized room where they let you be lazy. Knowin your
attitude's all wrong and you gotta change and thats not easy. The
Peacock is afraid to parade, you're under the thumb of the maid. And you
really can't give love in this condition-still you know that you need
it. They open and close you-and they talk like they know you-they don't
know you!!..they're friends and they're foes too- troubled child,
breakin like the waves at Malibu." Joni Mitchell "Troubled Child"
--
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
© 1997 Altair Publications
http://home.aol.com/ewollmann
Roger L. Satterlee
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
>
> > > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> > > > "[..]There will be evidence in my upcoming book-the first Califonia highway
> > > > patrol convicted of violating a woman's civil rights (by murdering her)
> > > > came to me for astrological consulting regarding the case that was
> > > > eventually successfully prosecuted by the FBI.
> > > > Not only did I know he was capable of it by the chart but that he did it
> > > > by the same measures.[..]"
>
> > > > Here is a chart of a convicted felon: how would you rate this chart as to
> > > > a propensity for violence? What specifically might you expect from this man in
> > > > terms of criminal acts?
>
> "a profound issue of control-sexual conflicts are the greatest and it is
> here I believe the crimes of seeking power over others would be
> greatest."
> HHHmmm I would say to the skeptics, this looks like proof of astrology
> here-perhaps?
>
Ed, I did not ask you *IF* the man was a convicted felon--this was a given; I see
no "proof of astrology" and so forth. I do see the standard desciption of Leo altered to
fit the chart of a person already described as a convicted felon.
In as much as the offenses were of a sexual nature is something you
correctly appraised; but I have written about this case in an oblique manner as recently
as this week when I described a bail hearing. Whether or not your performance as a
reader of charts is correct, the situation is such that you have been
unintentionally and unwittingly exposed to a bias prior to your reading. I had no idea
that this was to be some sort of exposition, for I would not have used this
particular case.
The subject whom you insist harbors an "antisocial pathology" came in second in a
three way mayoral race a few years back...not a few people thought his politics were
reasonable.
Does running for Mayor or District Councilman equal--"...the crimes of seeking
power over others..."?
The fact that I asked you to give your opinion--your reading--as to the subject's
propensity for violence, is no trick. It was a simple request as part of what was a
discussion on alt.astrology, and now seems a broad stage for a performing astrologer.
"...how would you rate this chart as to a propensity for violence? What
specifically might you expect from this man in terms of criminal acts?"
You never got around to saying whether or not the subject was violent man.
I think it is rather important that you recognize the fact that this man has ever
been committed to total non-violence--his role model is Ghandi.
You have told me that a convicted felon has a problem controlling his behavior.
To be fair, where is the revelation here?
I was unaware that it is your custom to crosspost to the whole world when you
find something to boast about, but it seems that is the way you chose to have a
discussion. This seems an unnecessary, and unproductive activity.
I have another chart, a documented person, if you would like an untainted trial
of your prowess. However, I must say I'm sorry everything has to be a matter of advocacy
and egoistic contests. You are not being objective to claim you have proven astrology
here. You have however vaguely described a Leo sculptor, a manipulator of clay, whose
work is intended to have shock value and often employs sexual themes.
It is almost funny that a City Councilmen running for Mayor here this fall,
actually stabbed a cab driver in the throat with a broken beer bottle during a robbery
when he was 18. We don't make up this kind of "reality", Ed, it just is.
Thanks,
Rog
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> © 1997 Altair Publications
> http://home.aol.com/ewollmann
--
rog...@ix.netcom.com
11:53pm EDT 26Jul50 Elmira, NY 076W48 42N06
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7406
Edmond Wollmann
Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
> Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
> > > > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > > > "[..]There will be evidence in my upcoming book-the first Califonia highway
> > > > > patrol convicted of violating a woman's civil rights (by murdering her)
> > > > > came to me for astrological consulting regarding the case that was
> > > > > eventually successfully prosecuted by the FBI.
> > > > > Not only did I know he was capable of it by the chart but that he did it
> > > > > by the same measures.[..]"
> > > > > Here is a chart of a convicted felon: how would you rate this chart as to
> > > > > a propensity for violence? What specifically might you expect from this man in
> > > > > terms of criminal acts?
> > "a profound issue of control-sexual conflicts are the greatest and it is
> > here I believe the crimes of seeking power over others would be
> > greatest."
> > HHHmmm I would say to the skeptics, this looks like proof of astrology
> > here-perhaps?
> Ed, I did not ask you *IF* the man was a convicted felon--this was a given; I see
> no "proof of astrology" and so forth.
Of course you don't. You are cynical, egotistical and have no intention
of seeking truth. The post however speaks for itself-I could have said
an infinite array of things-other than the exact and correct
delineation. Figure out the z-score and P value statistically on the
probability of my doing that with an alpha of .05 (standard). Mr.
scientists.
>I do see the standard desciption of Leo altered to
> fit the chart of a person already described as a convicted felon.
Oh please, this will be my last conversation with you. All Leos have a
disbelief in thier own power and are likely to commit sex crimes? You
are a dreamer not a scientist. Do you know what the numbers are on your
idiotic statement?
> In as much as the offenses were of a sexual nature is something you
> correctly appraised; but I have written about this case in an oblique manner as recently
> as this week when I described a bail hearing. Whether or not your performance as a
> reader of charts is correct, the situation is such that you have been
> unintentionally and unwittingly exposed to a bias prior to your reading.
Mispresentation and spin doctoring. I have never seen this chart or
heard of this man or his problems before-talk about ego-I don't even
read your posts that are not addressed to me. I haven't found them to
contain anything of use. Always defending your dreamy concoctions and
questioning everyone elses with scientific prose. You are neither
strategic or effective.
> I had no idea
> that this was to be some sort of exposition, for I would not have used this
> particular case.
More emotive attempts to spin. If, if, if. This is called fundemental
attribution error. Success is always good planning and failure is always
fate.
> The subject whom you insist harbors an "antisocial pathology" came in second in a
> three way mayoral race a few years back...not a few people thought his politics were
> reasonable.
Not a few people supported Hitler. Irrelevant.
> Does running for Mayor or District Councilman equal--"...the crimes of seeking
> power over others..."?
YES, YES, and yes. Politics along with organized religion is the science
of following and that is their primary intent-for the self empowered
know that everyone is equal and everyone has the same access to the "All
That Is". So yes, powerless people are in politics pretty much as the
effect of the belief in the need for protection-hence the belief in
power over others-yes-this is not a stretch but a fact.
> The fact that I asked you to give your opinion--your reading--as to the subject's
> propensity for violence, is no trick. It was a simple request as part of what was a
> discussion on alt.astrology, and now seems a broad stage for a performing astrologer.
And your past criticism of everything I have ever said has no relevance?
I was born at noon-BUT NOT YESTERDAY NOON.
End of conversation-why are you on alt.astrology anyway? Why don't you
go to alt.cynic with the rest of them and at least play your proper role
up front with courage? Or do you even know WHAT role you wish to play?
Seeing all sides of an argument (and even criticising all of them)
CANNOT BE an end in itself.
> "...how would you rate this chart as to a propensity for violence? What
> specifically might you expect from this man in terms of criminal acts?"
> You never got around to saying whether or not the subject was violent man.
The post speaks for itself. Now you try to hold me responsible for
things I did not say in an attempt to remove the accuracy from my post.
This is simple psychology.
> I think it is rather important that you recognize the fact that this man has ever
> been committed to total non-violence--his role model is Ghandi.
Irrelevant. Nixon was "the President" too. Besides, I never said he was
"bad or good" I simply stated his beliefs-which were confirmed both in
the story of his life and in the information you provided.
> You have told me that a convicted felon has a problem controlling his behavior.
> To be fair, where is the revelation here?
To be fair, I had no info but your biased perception. And even that did
not and does not affect me.
> I was unaware that it is your custom to crosspost to the whole world when you
> find something to boast about, but it seems that is the way you chose to have a
> discussion. This seems an unnecessary, and unproductive activity.
Well now you know-been doing it and will continue to expose frauds and
those with underhanded motives such as you for as long as I am here and
able. I will repost your "productive posts" about orifices, ejaculation,
how you are "so upset" by actions of others etc. and other such
revealing gutter expressions if you wish-better to be silent and thought
a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
> I have another chart, a documented person, if you would like an untainted trial
> of your prowess.
As I have said before and will say again-I KNOW what my prowess is-which
is why I don't take all these silly challenges-I followed a post you
asked about and it was correct-I am now pointing that out for those who
need it. You nor anyone else has taken my challenge, why would I need to
prove myself to lesser challenges than the one I presented no one can
take? You are not thinking straight.
> However, I must say I'm sorry everything has to be a matter of advocacy
> and egoistic contests.
Yes, I'm sure you are this is very characteristic of Leos:-))))))))
NOT!
> You are not being objective to claim you have proven astrology
> here. You have however vaguely described a Leo sculptor, a manipulator of clay, whose
> work is intended to have shock value and often employs sexual themes.
One of those "more than I needed to know" statements. How does this have
anything to do with my being wrong or vague? On the contrary it
fortifies my perceptions.
Next?
> It is almost funny that a City Councilmen running for Mayor here this fall,
> actually stabbed a cab driver in the throat with a broken beer bottle during a robbery
> when he was 18. We don't make up this kind of "reality", Ed, it just is.
There is no "just is" everything happens for a reason and is our
creation.
We and you create it totally as the product of what we/you believe. As
this mans reality so accurately reflects. I act only on what I prefer
and don't on that which I do not. Cynicism is not only negative and
destructive-but a waste of life and time. Therefore, find some other
gnats to strain at and sides to straddle- I have a life.
--
"To see what is right and not to do it is want of courage" Confucious
"A wise and good man can suffer no disgrace" Fabius Maximus
Roger L. Satterlee
Ed,
You are acting like a man suffering from delusions of grandure and paranoia.
Rog
--
Edmond Wollmann
Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
> "[..]Here is a chart of a convicted felon: how would you rate this chart as to
> a propensity for violence? What specifically might you expect from this man in terms
> of criminal acts?[..]
To which Edmond Wollmann replied:
"a
profound issue of control-sexual conflicts are the greatest and it is
here I believe the crimes of seeking power over others would be
greatest."
To which Rog confirms;
> His crime amounts to paying three male teenage prostitutes for > consentual sex.
With no less than 30 seconds of analysis of this chart I have never seen
before in my life and a response to which I could have answered in
INFINITE ways as to what he had as far as a propensity for crime
committing.
And I assert, you cannot get any more specific or accurate in answering
your question. There is nothing left to discuss-cynics have been
answered, you have been answered, and you all will have to find a new
argument against the validity of astrology.
"Not a shred of evidence" has now been eliminated.
--
"Everyday is a winding road! I get a little bit closer..." Sheryle Crow
Roger L. Satterlee
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
>
> > "[..]Here is a chart of a convicted felon: how would you rate this chart as to
> > a propensity for violence? What specifically might you expect from this man in terms
> > of criminal acts?[..]
>
> To which Edmond Wollmann replied:
>
> "a
> profound issue of control-sexual conflicts are the greatest and it is
> here I believe the crimes of seeking power over others would be
> greatest."
Elmira, NY, my hometown, has two prisons--a maxi prison, and the state's maxi-maxi
prison for canibals and such--not to mention a large county jail as well; too many residents
could fit your description, Ed.
*Ed, you could not even committ to saying whether or not the subject was violent.*
All tolled, your score is well below 50% concerning the questions I posed (not
challenged).
Anytime you would like, you may have a chance to save face by assessing a chart of a
documented person who is not *previously* described as anything, just annouce it to all the
newsgroups that you add to header *prior* to your decision to show off...:)
I am only being honest here...I would like to see astrologers do well, I haven't
doubted astrology's existence since 1970. You probably could do a good job without out a
prior knowledge of a conviction..if you would just calm down and try it. I have a chart
waitng for you, and you need not rely on my assessment--the man is documented.
>
> To which Rog confirms;
>
> > His crime amounts to paying three male teenage prostitutes for > consentual sex.
>
> With no less than 30 seconds of analysis of this chart I have never seen
> before in my life and a response to which I could have answered in
> INFINITE ways as to what he had as far as a propensity for crime
> committing.
> And I assert, you cannot get any more specific or accurate in answering
> your question. There is nothing left to discuss-cynics have been
> answered, you have been answered, and you all will have to find a new
> argument against the validity of astrology.
> "Not a shred of evidence" has now been eliminated.
> --
> "Everyday is a winding road! I get a little bit closer..." Sheryle Crow
> --
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> © 1997 Altair Publications
> http://home.aol.com/ewollmann
Now how many people would even be honest enough to treat you fairly, Ed?
Rog
Edmond Wollmann
Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
<SNIP>
Thank you Rog, I have won several bets on your behavior.
Best to you in your future endeavors. I am sure there are others who are
insecure enough to think you are being honest. Use them in your "tests."
If you can muster enough self worth and dignity to say "well that was
pretty good, HOW did you do that?" I will be glad to explain-for
everyone else, I will explain how without such conditions if they are so
inclined and interested-I did not do that on purpose when I read it.
Thanks,
Ed
--
"What you think of yourself is much more important than what others
think of you." Seneca, 64 A. D.
Roger L. Satterlee
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> Thank you Rog, I have won several bets on your behavior.
I was raised by people who consider betting a an undesirable social practice,
which only begets bad feelings. Successful betting is like successful combat--one waits
for the opportunity to murder one's sleeping opponents...That's how winning is
accomplished, and I think the whole process of advocacy is little else but a necessary
evi--applicable only to those times when one choses to destroy another person in part or
in whole. The destruction of another is not my purpose, though I am as subject to
emtional responses and unproductive verbage as anyone else. I say I'm willing to bet you
can do better--this is how I think the assertive urge to *bet* is more appropriately
socialized.
> Best to you in your future endeavors. I am sure there are others who are
> insecure enough to think you are being honest. Use them in your "tests."
> If you can muster enough self worth and dignity to say "well that was
> pretty good, HOW did you do that?" I will be glad to explain-for
> everyone else, I will explain how without such conditions if they are so
> inclined and interested-I did not do that on purpose when I read it.
I have been an astrologist (ad nauseum at times) for more than a quarter century.
I would say that I'm a little slower to understand, to accept, and even to remember many
things unique to any discipline with an extensive, novel vocabulary. However, your
reading of the chart in question was more like a rather basic approach to describing a
Leo with an *afflicted* Venus on the Asc: first year, cookbook astrologists would most
likely read/say, " unusal, unorthodox, unpredicable, erratic, or anti-authoritarian", for
the planet Uranus here, and being that Uranus is conjunct Venus* and that the subject is
already defined as a convicted felon*, your logic could be reproduced by some of the
least experienced astrologists. Even longtime practicioners, say, Pete Stapleton for
instance, has written repeatedly, that Ven/Ura is responsible for homosexuality and or
sexual deviance--not that I agree with him in the least, but this is a commonly occuring
propositon on alt.astrology.
The subject of this thread concerns the possible ability or inability of
astrology to help one to discern something about a subject's potential for aggression an
violence. This is the reason I used this chart, I wanted to tap your experience for any
ideas which would help guide the formation of any appropriate hypotheses to be pursued in
the event that a comparison were ever attempted between a natal chart and the
results of standardized psychological instruments, like the MMPI, and the more recent
forms of such instruments one will find disucussed at length on the PSYLAW mailist by
professionals currently working with the courts as expert witnesses, and as conselors
involved with sentencing recommendations submitted to the courts by parole officers.
This promising discussion which has unfortunately degraded to yet another case of
ego-defensive vaguery, worthy of any skeptic's laughing scorn, leaves *any* observer with
two self-evident conclusions.
1) Ed Wollmann *never* directly addressed the question of *aggression and
violence*.
2) Ed Wollmann *never* attempted to describe a *specific criminal act*.
> Thanks,
> Ed
> --
> "What you think of yourself is much more important than what others
> think of you." Seneca, 64 A. D.
> --
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> © 1997 Altair Publications
> http://home.aol.com/ewollmann
I will be an astrologist to the day I die, but I will never neglect of
purposely distort simple facts for the sake of wooing either the astrologers or the
skeptical psychologists on whom I depend for the information necessary to the furthering
of my education. I am an amatuer--I love what I study simply because it exists, and for
no other reason.
For the record, I think Ed Wollmann has the intelligence, the education, and
perhaps an unprecedented amount of drive and an indispensable native talent, which I
readily recognize. In as much as it is the Taurus function to *ingest* the available
materials, it is the native role of Leo to *digest* them--make them suitable for their
subsequent analysis and absorbtion. In my idealistic perception of natural order, it is
only logical that whatever I recieve from ED Wollman, should leave my care in a form
suitable to the Virgo's like Lee Lehman and Liz Greene. In this perspective one might
say a jump from Taurus to Leo seems to skip two phases or steps (Gemini & Cancer), but
the psyche's reality seems like the anatomical body wherein the mouth is connected to the
stomach only by those who repesent the symbolic equivalent to swallowing. Ed, the
*swallower's* are quite naturally the target recipients of your output--this too is
astrology.
atlantis
Hello,
Sorry that I sent this message to so many groups. Please do not be
upset. I have a new web site started "The Atlantis Project". THe
purpose of the site is to present up to date information on alternative
sciences outside the mainstream. The site is new so there isn't much
there right now.
I ask that all please take a look at the site and give me feedback and
feel free to contribute articles and information you feel appropriate.
We can make it a productive information site if we all contribute.
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Brant Watson
>Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
<snip>
>> Ed, I did not ask you *IF* the man was a convicted felon--this was a given; I see
>> no "proof of astrology" and so forth.
>
>Of course you don't. You are cynical, egotistical and have no intention
>of seeking truth. The post however speaks for itself-I could have said
>an infinite array of things-other than the exact and correct
>delineation. Figure out the z-score and P value statistically on the
>probability of my doing that with an alpha of .05 (standard). Mr.
>scientists.
As most of your descriptions were about as specific and measurable
as a typical Nostradamus quattrain, how in the world would one go
about using any kind of statistical analysis? The accuracy of most of
your statements is virtually unassessable.
A much better test would be one which has unambiguous results, for
example, matching observed dominant personality characteristics of
certain individuals with their charts. Since it appears you have also
claimed that you can describe certain key events at specific times in
a person's life, this would suggest an even better test. The test
would list ten birth dates and ten significant events of a personal
nature and the dates on which they occurred. Then you match them.
This would lend itself to good statistical analysis.
Can you do that? Events would include things like marriage,
divorce, attempted suicide, committing a crime, (like domestic
violence), switching careers, nervous breakdown, making an important
discovery or invention, coming out of the closet, making a major
investment, and any others you think you can pin down.
(My thousand dollar offer still stands.)
Brant
Edmond Wollmann
Brant Watson wrote:
> On Sat, 24 May 1997 01:18:25 -0700, Edmond Wollmann> >> I have no need of status; it seems that this is hard for you to
> >
> >Not possible, everyone has a need for status. You are a Leo, Moon in
> >Capricorn, Aries ascending-if I remember correctly, this reflects a
> >strong need for status.
> Since you just said everyone has a need for status, why did you
> bother mentioning the particulars of his chart?
Status is the effect of defining an identity in physicality-as space is
the effect of defining time or time the effect of defining space.
Therefore everyone has a definition of thier status if they have a self
definition at all. It is the natural polarizing effect of physicality.
This is blending science and psychology. What are your qualifications in
psychology? This makes a large difference in understanding astrological
principles.
Everyone has a belief about their status-but astrology helps us
understand WHAT that belief is. And since we create our reality utterly
as the product of belief-then this information is crucial to the
discerning individual who wishes to grow and learn.
> >In your case you are insecure about your mental
> >capabilities and seek social reinforcement to validate them.
> Ah, another fine example of the unbridled bigotry that astrologers
> indulge in. It is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the statement
> applies to just about everyone, in varying degrees...another common
> characteristic of astrological profiling.
Yor ignorance of astrology once again is obvious.
The moon opposed Venus reflects fears of self efficacy, social
acceptance, self worth-the unconscious habit patterning-in nurturing
conflict with the mother-reflects a schema of the belief that one must
"work" at being accepted-this goes along with his Mars in Libra, another
indicator of the need to find and prove the self through social
reflection. The person then appears as if they want something from
others rather than just interaction.
In the 3rd and 9th houses (information and thinking profile) these
social needs would be brought to the dissemination of self and are
reflected in his overcompensation to explain himself in "artsy" terms.
He posts charts but cannot interpret them-but yet says we must have
objectivity and then gives his artistic impressions of them-this is
because of the insecure mental profile internalized through the
relationship with the mother as I already stated. Therefore expression
is not convicted to the self and its preferences-but to what the
identity believes will reinforce this social insecurity. Since the
Sun/moon belnd in this man's case is so status and power oriented-it is
difficult for him to conceal his true motivations.
Also all his planets are oriented to the western hemisphere of the
chart, reinforcing the belief in and affectation of others and their
beliefs etc....Saturn in the 6th in Virgo also reflects a fear regarding
analytical discernment-there are many factors to corraborate my
statement-but you will have to do much study before you can get what I
am saying.
Astrological mechanics-not bigotry. But this tells us now of your own
profile doesn't it?
Bigot=a person intolerant of creeds, opinions etc. other than his own.
(Webster College Dict.)
--
"What you are speaks so loudly, that I can't hear what you are saying."
Walt Whitman
Roger L. Satterlee
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> Brant Watson wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 24 May 1997 01:18:25 -0700, Edmond Wollmann
> > <woll...@aznet.net> wrote:
>
> > >Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
> > <snip>
>
> > >> I have no need of status; it seems that this is hard for you to
> > >
> > >Not possible, everyone has a need for status. You are a Leo, Moon in
> > >Capricorn, Aries ascending-if I remember correctly, this reflects a
> > >strong need for status.
<snip>
Rog comments:
The fact remains, Ed, could not tell me if the chart of a convicted
felon *was or was not* the chart of a violent man....that blew the first half of
a two-part question, yet Ed wants an "A+"--or a trophy for performance he states
is miraculous....talk about grab for status...gee whizz...be reasonable, for
change. If anyone had descibed any "specific criminal acts", like rape, or
endangering the welfare of a child, he would have had to state the violent or
non-violent nature of the offender....right?
Am I missing some basic point here or what?
Edmond Wollmann
Lili4love wrote:
> Roger
> you contradict yourself left and right...why not just admit that Ed did
> what you asked.... he identified in the chart- sexual offender- and
> indeed, that's precisely what the guy was.
> Why not just admit it be done with it!!!
> peace,
> lili
Its because he has no need for status:-)
I did more than that. If sexual orientations to teens is not reflective
of a desire for power over others (ALONG WITH being a politician), then
the person's reviewing these posts need to go back to psych 101!
Thanks for your support Lili:-), I tried to answer what he asked. This
is why its crazy to do that-there will always be some argument as to
what you didn't do. Then Jim Rogers comes up with a test thats even
easier and says; "welll do this then" I laughed so hard! :-)))))))
Oh, you crossed that line?!....wellllll cross this one then:-) and this
one and this one and this one and....
--
"He didn't ask for her permission! Took advantage of her position-but he
was always her ambition anyway! She loved her biker like an icon, gazing
at his picture everyday-she loved her biker like an icon." Paul
McCartney
"Biker Like an Icon"
Roger L. Satterlee
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> Lili4love wrote:
>
> > Roger
> > you contradict yourself left and right...why not just admit that Ed did
> > what you asked.... he identified in the chart- sexual offender- and
> > indeed, that's precisely what the guy was.
> > Why not just admit it be done with it!!!
>
> > peace,
>
> > lili
>
> Its because he has no need for status:-)
> I did more than that. If sexual orientations to teens is not reflective
> of a desire for power over others (ALONG WITH being a politician), then
> the person's reviewing these posts need to go back to psych 101!
>
> Thanks for your support Lili:-), I tried to answer what he asked. This
> is why its crazy to do that-there will always be some argument as to
> what you didn't do. Then Jim Rogers comes up with a test thats even
> easier and says; "welll do this then" I laughed so hard! :-)))))))
Rog comments:
You both have a better grasp of how psychologists define responses...I regret that
you two choose to be more emotional observers than objective ones. I find hard to excuse
your distortion of facts as neither of you can claim ignorance of how investigators define
significance.
Ed, you are correct to state that Jim's latter proposal IS easier, and there is
some humor in in the irony of the situation. However, though I might be naive, I do not
see any bad faith on the part of Jim Rogers, he simply represents the mindset of the many
rational people who just happen not to have a lengthy experience of natal astrology.
It is very difficult to find uninformed but reasonable persons who are willing to
set aside the common biasing effect of conventional wisdoms long enough for an astrologer
to speak about the matter of objectivity. As such a person is present any willing to
listen to *astrological reasoning* and to examine the level of objectivity which can be
introduced to astrological trials. It seems in the best interest of everyone to make the
most of this opportunity to advance the groups awareness of astrology as the more symbolic
"reality" of individuals. Astrologers know why a test for astrology should focus on the
relative differences between individuals and not on their more common attributes. I also
know how many times an astrologer is simply dismissed without being heard at all, I don't
see any wisdom in offering a horse laugh to one who is willing to engage a productive
discourse.
>
> Oh, you crossed that line?!....wellllll cross this one then:-) and this
> one and this one and this one and....
The entire situation was your to "create", Ed...you could have said that
astrologers cannot *read* specific acts because that is a limitation of the art *not the
artist*--that is not the way to show what astrology is. Instead you chose to perform the
very activity which has always made astrology and asrtrologists look like unreasonable,
purely subjective people.
The difference between people is great enough that one proposed natal chart is more
representative than another chart. This much has a self-evident quality. This much you
know, Ed; I see no reason why we should be unwilling to demonstrate this relationship for
the enlightenment of skeptics or anyone else. Where is the down-side in trying to show a
little objectivity?
> --
> "He didn't ask for her permission! Took advantage of her position-but he
> was always her ambition anyway! She loved her biker like an icon, gazing
> at his picture everyday-she loved her biker like an icon." Paul
> McCartney
> "Biker Like an Icon"
BTW, this quote of McCartney's expresses his Venus[Tau] and it aspects very
well...it would appear his birthtime places Venus in the 12th House and this seems correct:
if astrologers could better separate/define the difference between the *effect of houses*
vs the *effect of aspects* that would be a very important progress--something to be
achieved only by employing more objectivity.
Rog
> --
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> © 1997 Altair Publications
> http://home.aol.com/ewollmann
--
Edmond Wollmann
Brant Watson wrote:
> On Tue, 27 May 1997 09:00:19 -0700, Edmond Wollmann
> >> On Sat, 24 May 1997 01:18:25 -0700, Edmond Wollmann
> >> <woll...@aznet.net> wrote:
> >> >Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >> >> I have no need of status; it seems that this is hard for you to
> >> >Not possible, everyone has a need for status. You are a Leo, Moon in
> >> >Capricorn, Aries ascending-if I remember correctly, this reflects a
> >> >strong need for status.
> >> Since you just said everyone has a need for status, why did you
> >> bother mentioning the particulars of his chart?
> >Status is the effect of defining an identity in physicality-as space is
> >the effect of defining time or time the effect of defining space.
> >Therefore everyone has a definition of thier status if they have a self
> >definition at all. It is the natural polarizing effect of physicality.
> >This is blending science and psychology. What are your qualifications in
> >psychology? This makes a large difference in understanding astrological
> >principles.
> I don't generally get into my credentials as it invariably leads to
> peripheral or totally irrelevant arguments. My question was really
> more rhetorical than informational.
Talk about slippery, do you always take the easy way out? I was asking
for good reason. I have studied it and do not find your awareness to be
reflective of knowledge about it. Since astrology is an art requiring
psychological awareness it is VITALLY important that you have training
in these related fields.
> It seemed redundant for you to
> state that everyone has a need for status and then use his birth
> configurations to show that he had a need for status. I don't see
> what this has to do with psychology.
Well again your ignorance shows, perhaps you may wish to study some of
the things you think you are going to straighten the rest of us out on
who have?
> >> Ah, another fine example of the unbridled bigotry that astrologers
> >> indulge in. It is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the statement
> >> applies to just about everyone, in varying degrees...another common
> >> characteristic of astrological profiling.
> >Your ignorance of astrology once again is obvious.
> If there were any verified facts in astrology to be ignorant *of*, I
> would have to plead guilty as charged. Your statements which follow,
> despite the great authority with which you present them, do not offer
> a single objectively demonstrated fact of astrology or present a
> single observable causality, and have not been verified by any
> population studies.
What about this one?
TI: Incorporation of astrology based personality information into
long-term
self-concept.
AU: Hamilton,-Margaret-M.
IN: U Wisconsin--Washington, Dept of Psychology, West Bend, US
JN: Journal-of-Social-Behavior-and-Personality: 1995 Sep Vol 10(3)
707-718
AB: Examined the relation of self-report knowledge about astrology,
exposure to
astrological texts and perceived validity of astrology, leading to an
acceptance of astrological character descriptions. 87 students (18-51
yrs old)
were divided into a group of examiners and a group of examinees. Each
examiner
was given a packet consisting of the 12 astrological sign descriptions,
while
each examinee completed a questionnaire, which the examiners used to
ascertain
their astrological sign. Examiners then gave their examinees 2 sign
descriptions, the correct astrology description and the description
immediately
following it. Results show that Is who knew their astrological sign
judged the
personality profile corresponding to their sign to be a more accurate
description of their personality than an alternative astrological sign
profile.
Neither strong astrological belief nor awareness was necessary for this
effect
to occur. (PsycLIT Database Copyright 1996 American Psychological Assn,
all
rights reserved)
AN : 83- t 039
Or this one?
TI: Introversion-Extroversion: Astrology versus psychology.
RU: van-Rooij,-Jan-J,-F.
IN: Leiden U, Dept of Psychology, Netherlands
dN: Personality-and-Individual-Differences; 1994 Jun Vol 16(6) 985-988
AB: Replicated the study by J. Mayo ct al (see PA, Vol 63:5502) that
confirmed
the astrological proposition that people born with the sun in a positive
sign
are extroverted and those with the sun in a negative sign are
introverted. The
replication took place in 2 studies: 222 Ss (aged 17-56 yrs)
participated in
Study 1, and 278 Ss (aged 16 -68 years) participated in Study 2. The
replication
result was found only with Ss who had astrological knowledge. As an
explanation, a process of self-attribution (SA) was suggested, This SA
affect
was strengthened when Ss received a cue that the study pertained to
astrology.
Ss with the sun in a positive sign were especially susceptible to such a
cue.
Or this one?
TI: An empirical study of an astrological hypothesis in a twin
population.
RU: Fuzeau-Braesch,-Suzel
IN: U Paris XI, Orsay, France
JN: Personality-and-Individual-Differences; 1992 Oct Vol (13-10)
1135-1144
AB: Tested 238 pairs of homo- and heterozygotic twins 135 pairs (aged
3-17
yrs) and 103 pairs (aged 2 mo-59 yrs), respectively) to determine if an
astrological hypothesis may correspond to a factor that differentiates
both
personalities in a twin pair. The test involved the choice of 2
psychological
characteristics to which the families had to attribute the Christian
name of
each of the twins. The characteristics were polarized in relation to one
another (for example, more energetic or less energetic) and were
extracted from
a preliminary astrological study of the 2 birth charts of twins 153
exact
replies and 65 reverse replies were obtained: 20 replies declared that
no
difference had been found. Statistical comparison of proportions showed
that
exact replies could not be attributed to chance and support the
astrological
hypothesis as a new element in differentiating personality within a pair
of
twins. (PsycLIT Database Copyright 1993 American Psychological Assn, all
rights
reserved)
AN: 80-13527
I will post this again-it is from CURRENT academia, a class I took
several semesters ago-please try to read it this time.
"A final word about science"
Bem P. Allen
Western Illinois University "Personality Theories" pg 15 introduction,
1994 Simon & Schuster
"All this talk of science should not leave you with the impression that
it is good and other approaches are bad.
It is neither good nor necessarily better than other orientations;
science just is...
Some covered theories (in this text) will meet the scientific criteria
better than others.
Theories that fail to meet criteria well will be subjected to
appropriate criticism-so will more scientific theories that are flawed
in other ways. But no theories will be dismissed soley on the basis of
failure to meet scientific criteria. There are good reasons to include
theories that do not meet scientific criteria well. In fact, strengths
in the non-scientific realm may make these theories more valuable than
some more scientific theories.
Sometimes a well thought-out philosophical position, although it is too
abstract to be tested scientifically, can have more merit than a 'hard
science' point of view."
Therefore even if there weren't tests-which I have shown there are-your
argument is redundant anyway.
> Just for the record, the following statement *is* factual:
> >Also all his planets are oriented to the western hemisphere of the
> >chart,
> And on with more unsubstantiated claims, and as I said before, bigotry
> based on the date of a person's birth, but even the time of day.
You teach best what you need to learn. As I said the first time.
> >Bigot=a person intolerant of creeds, opinions etc. other than his own.
> >(Webster College Dict.)
> Perhaps, after you have gotten a pretty good impression of my
> personality, you might suggest some of the planetary configurations
> that would be most likely in my birth chart.
Why? I don't need it-it is a tool not a God. I see what you are like
EITHER way. Now how would that be reflected in MY chart? It is through
knowing myself that I know others.
--
"There are three things extremely hard. Steel, a diamond, and to know
one's self." Benjamin Franklin
Brant Watson
>Brant Watson wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 24 May 1997 01:18:25 -0700, Edmond Wollmann
>> <woll...@aznet.net> wrote:
>
>> >Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
>> <snip>
>
>> >> I have no need of status; it seems that this is hard for you to
>> >
>> >Not possible, everyone has a need for status. You are a Leo, Moon in
>> >Capricorn, Aries ascending-if I remember correctly, this reflects a
>> >strong need for status.
>
>> Since you just said everyone has a need for status, why did you
>> bother mentioning the particulars of his chart?
>
>Status is the effect of defining an identity in physicality-as space is
>the effect of defining time or time the effect of defining space.
>Therefore everyone has a definition of thier status if they have a self
>definition at all. It is the natural polarizing effect of physicality.
>This is blending science and psychology. What are your qualifications in
>psychology? This makes a large difference in understanding astrological
>principles.
I don't generally get into my credentials as it invariably leads to
peripheral or totally irrelevant arguments. My question was really
more rhetorical than informational. It seemed redundant for you to
state that everyone has a need for status and then use his birth
configurations to show that he had a need for status. I don't see
what this has to do with psychology.
>Everyone has a belief about their status-but astrology helps us
>understand WHAT that belief is. And since we create our reality utterly
>as the product of belief-then this information is crucial to the
>discerning individual who wishes to grow and learn.
>
>> >In your case you are insecure about your mental
>> >capabilities and seek social reinforcement to validate them.
>
>> Ah, another fine example of the unbridled bigotry that astrologers
>> indulge in. It is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the statement
>> applies to just about everyone, in varying degrees...another common
>> characteristic of astrological profiling.
>
>Yor ignorance of astrology once again is obvious.
If there were any verified facts in astrology to be ignorant *of*, I
would have to plead guilty as charged. Your statements which follow,
despite the great authority with which you present them, do not offer
a single objectively demonstrated fact of astrology or present a
single observable causality, and have not been verified by any
population studies.
>The moon opposed Venus reflects fears of self efficacy, social
>acceptance, self worth-the unconscious habit patterning-in nurturing
>conflict with the mother-reflects a schema of the belief that one must
>"work" at being accepted-this goes along with his Mars in Libra, another
>indicator of the need to find and prove the self through social
>reflection. The person then appears as if they want something from
>others rather than just interaction.
>In the 3rd and 9th houses (information and thinking profile) these
>social needs would be brought to the dissemination of self and are
>reflected in his overcompensation to explain himself in "artsy" terms.
>He posts charts but cannot interpret them-but yet says we must have
>objectivity and then gives his artistic impressions of them-this is
>because of the insecure mental profile internalized through the
>relationship with the mother as I already stated. Therefore expression
>is not convicted to the self and its preferences-but to what the
>identity believes will reinforce this social insecurity. Since the
>Sun/moon belnd in this man's case is so status and power oriented-it is
>difficult for him to conceal his true motivations.
Just for the record, the following statement *is* factual:
>Also all his planets are oriented to the western hemisphere of the
>chart,
And on with more unsubstantiated claims, and as I said before, bigotry
based on the date of a person's birth, but even the time of day.
>reinforcing the belief in and affectation of others and their
>beliefs etc....Saturn in the 6th in Virgo also reflects a fear regarding
>analytical discernment-there are many factors to corraborate my
>statement-but you will have to do much study before you can get what I
>am saying.
>
>Astrological mechanics-not bigotry. But this tells us now of your own
>profile doesn't it?
>Bigot=a person intolerant of creeds, opinions etc. other than his own.
>(Webster College Dict.)
Perhaps, after you have gotten a pretty good impression of my
personality, you might suggest some of the planetary configurations
that would be most likely in my birth chart.
Brant
Roger L. Satterlee
Ed,
I'm sorry that you are always seeking confrontation to validate the stresses
you feel--one can only wonder how many bogiemen you will have to attack or
killfile before you feel better.
I suggest that you put your birth data in your signature so that at least
others can learn about more astrology by observing your persistent patterns of
self-expression.
Best wishes,
Rog
--
Edmond Wollmann
Roger L. Satterlee wrote:
> Ed,
> I'm sorry that you are always seeking confrontation to validate the stresses
> you feel--one can only wonder how many bogiemen you will have to attack or
> killfile before you feel better.
Why does choosing preference have to be from "boogie men" so one can
"feel" better? This is the negative view that assumes one only acts from
fear rather than trust. So when you choose the type of car you buy or
relationship you will have it is because of boogie men?
> I suggest that you put your birth data in your signature so that at least
> others can learn about more astrology by observing your persistent patterns of
> self-expression.
Charts do not reveal levels, people do. Persistence is a positive
quality in my experience-it is what allowed me to learn to walk again
after being burned and crushed with no further surgeries, while those
who whined and withdrew from confronting thier situation needed further
surgeries (more pain) to "help" them because they were unwilling to deal
with it-or could never muster the drive to use those limbs again. It is
what allowed me to learn replicate in drawing, get custody of my son in
a world of mother biased courts, and many other things that require
transformation points that the less than diligent never reach.
Life is very simple Roger. Boogie men are opportunities for self
discovery. I answer because I can, and because it moves me to do so. If
you find what I write useful, use it, if you don't you are free to
create a reality wherein I do not exist. In this day and age that only
requires the click of a mouse-and or going to other things beyond the
computer itself, you can't get much easier in preference choosing than
that.
I have no power over anyone and believe that whatever happens is
perfectly what needs to at any moment. Likewise I choose to answer, they
have no power over me either. I am not responsible FOR anyone only TO
them by being all that I can be at any given moment-it is for this
reason that I answer also. There is always something I learn in
everything I do. Therefore what is the worst possible thing that can
happen? It seems that it bothers everyone else far more than me. Why is
that?
Perfection;
"Allow us to refresh ourselves on the idea and the concept of,
perfection. We have discussed many times with you, the idea that in your
lives very often you are taught, that even when you create the idea and
the notion in your lives of what you call, a spiritual path. That the
reason for this is for the a-ttainment and the a-chievement of
perfection. But recognize once again as we have shared many times our
perspective is that you will never a-chieve perfection, because you are
already perfect. The idea does not mean that you will not grow, not
expand, not change, not transform, not learn something new. But it is
simply an allowance, a recognition of allowance in your lives, that at
any given moment, the idea you are being, the reality you are
expressing, the events you are experiencing, are for their own reasons
perfect in themselves.
This relaxation, this attitude, this backing off from yourself in that
way rather than applying so much pressure to the idea to BE MORE
PERFECT, is what allows you to know that you can always become a
different type of perfection at any given moment, perhaps a more
expanded type. But you will always be, at any given moment, the absolute
perfect manifestation of whatever idea you are being at that moment.
Your willingness to allow that moment to be perfect in and of itself, is
what paradoxically allows you to create the next and different perfect
moment. Because unless you are willing to allow whatever moment you are
experiencing to be complete in and of itself on all levels, then you are
not allowing yourself to view and perceive all facets of that
experience, because if you do not think it is perfect as it is, if you
invalidate it and judge it in that way, in a negative point of view,
then you yourself may be shutting off aspects of that event, of that
moment that you need to see, need to be aware of, to incorporate them
into the totality of yourself so that you can get on with the next step.
Every moment is a stepping stone to the next moment, and if you
invalidate any stepping stone then you yourself remove from the path you
are, the ability to get to the next stepping stone. Always allow each
and every moment of your lives to be perfectly valid as they are. This
does not mean that you must accept that the things that are occurring in
your life are what you "should" accept or prefer. You can always prefer
your life to be the way you desire it to be. But the way to allow
yourself to create it to be the way that you desire it to be, is to
accept that the way it is now SERVES A PURPOSE and is a PART of the path
you have created yourself to be, and that what you are learning is there
for a reason, your reason! That there is something within the scenario
you want to see, you want to reflect on, you want to learn from.
And in accepting and acknowledging the way your life does unfold, that
is what gives you the recognition of the empowerment you have, to create
your life to unfold in the direction and in the manner you most desire
it to be.
So simply do allow yourself to reflect at any given moment, that no
matter what your choices, every scenario, for what it is, is a perfect
manifestation of that scenario. You can prefer perfect harmony and
perfect ecstasy, or you can prefer perfect misery. But both are perfect
expressions of the idea you are reflecting at that moment. And when you
allow it to be there for a reason, then you can extract from that
scenario, what will most assist you in reforming the idea, redirecting
yourself and creating what it is you desire to experience most in your
reality.
Many individuals will pressure themselves in many different ways to
strive, to struggle, to try, to be more perfect. Will set themselves
goals and ideals in that way, that continually denies the validity they
possess, at that moment. In that way you deny yourself all that you
truly desire as well. For if you do not believe yourself complete in
that moment, then you, by your own definition, insist that you do not
have the capability of creating what it is you say you desire to attract
into your lives.
Knowing that you are complete, perhaps focused not in a way you prefer
to be, but knowing you are complete, gives you the opportunity to know
that at any given moment you have the ability to refocus yourself in any
direction you desire-you lack nothing! You have all the tools and all
the abilities you require at any given moment to be anything you are
willing and bold enough to believe you can define yourself to be!"
Bashar "Perfection"
--
"Can you hear me that when it starts to rain, everything is the same.
Can you hear me? I can show you that when it rains and shines-its just a
state of mind, I can show you." The Beatles