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From: "Tani Jantsang©" <tjs...@spampost.com>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.religion.pagan.evil,alt.satanism,alt.sex.society.indonesia,soc.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: What is Repentance
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:39:48 -0400
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"flower of romance" <flow...@inthattick.com> wrote in message
news:J6kBj.1407$334.1145@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Tani Jantsang©" <tjs...@spampost.com> wrote in message
> news:13t9cmo96df4959@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "flower of romance" <flow...@inthattick.com> wrote in message
>> news:qr1Bj.3607$5i5.1879@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>>
>>> "lorax666" <yronwode.com@nagasiva> wrote in message
>>> news:47d38a6f$0$36367$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>>>
>>>> you could just switch allegiances to a different
>>>> god. that way the "sin" set would also change.
>>>
>>> you could. some of us did.
>>
>> There is another way to see this.  Let us say that your God is the Cosmos
>> itself - or the dark force in nature.  Let us say that this god has only
>> what is absolutely and literally true to tell us.  This is what this god
>> says:
>>
>> 1. Nothing is good or bad unless you think it is good or bad.
>> 2. All things are permitted, the only exceptions being purely physical
>> ones. (I.e., you are not permitted to breathe water because, as a human,
>> you simply can't do that.  You are not permitted to walk through a wall,
>> because as a being made of matter, you can't.)
>>
>> That's it.  Nothing else.
>
> something i've contemplated before now. I mean who or what has authority
> over us other than the physical constraints as you pointed out. True you
> could go on a killing spree and get gunned down for your troubles but you
> took the shit of no'one. ;)

Exactly.  Those two "rules" are the ONLY rules that this God tells you, and 
you claim that.  It's your religion, you are gonna start one.  You are eg, 
Ruler of BIG nation of old.  Like that.
>
>>
>> Now, one might ask why have a god at all, if those are the only 2 things
>> told to you by this god?  Well, heh, if a GOD said it and it's written in
>> a BOOK - then heh - you know how the rest of that goes.  What kind of
>> society would we have?  Maybe no society?  Anarchy leads to gangs - I
>> won't even debate that no-brainer.
>
> But the gods never said anything about it being written in a book. People
> did then told us it was gods.

That's what I'm saying.  You present the 2 rules from God with the book as 
your authority - you know, like you are a person like Moses, or rules of BIG 
nation, like Pharaoh or something.

> If I was a god, I wouldn't bother trying to talk to people. I would just
> make them extinct.

LOL.  No, you are the person that's making the claims about what God said - 
and you wrote it down, 2 rules, for society, your society.
>
>>
>> However, in time, people would get the idea that "tit for tat" doesn't
>> always work out, even if the gang were doing tit for tat (that's, more or
>> less, a kind of golden rule that not just humans tend to follow - there
>> is more cooperation in the animal world than there is competition).
>> Someone might get the other idea that "well, if EVERYONE did this thing,
>> what would happen?"  And what might happen might seriously suck.  Or it
>> might be seriously good.
>>
>
> I agree. The term "law of the jungle" always amuses especially when you
> should look and see that there is a lot of order in the jungle. trouble
> with tit for tat is that it never is. tit is responded by tat and them sum
> which is in turn responded by a greater amount of tit and it's not
> everyday i get to say that.. eventually it results in war..

I meant tit for tat in terms of trade and exchange, favors, etc. not war.

Sure, there is order in a jungle (this is a different subject) but 
seriously, you personally would NOT want to be living in a jungle like 
primitive ancestors did and have to contend with the order therein.  Keep in 
mind, our ancestors were PREY.
>
>> Someone would come along and claim that this God had 3 rules, or 4, or
>> 5 - and you know how that goes.  They'd be laws - with a bit of that
>> emphasis for those that need it: the old "GOD said it."
>
> Yeah and they stick the odd extra one in here and there aswell. You see
> all this dogma of all these religions and most of it has fuck all to do
> with thier gods

That's what I'm saying.  But now, this following paragraph, everything 
changes:
>>>
>> On the other hand, if someone, some person with brute force and a
>> following, decides that something is good for him and his gang and fuck
>> everyone else - that person could also come up with rules 6, 7, 8 and so
>> forth - and enforce those rules until, eventually, in a few generations -
>> nobody knows that anything changed - and this new regime becomes the
>> status quo.
>
> All too familier

Yes - and here we are today :)

>> So let us say that humans evolved out of the need for any gods. Then
>> they'd have "the ruler" and what "the ruler said" - i.e., laws.  Ok, the
>> congress. The house of reps.  Oooo, the Supreme Court (9 fucking people
>> in black robes - HOH sound familiar?).  Doesn't matter if the laws are
>> just or not. Some of our laws are ridiculous - stupid beyond measure.
>> But nonetheless, almost impossible to overturn even if the majority wants
>> them overturned - and this is SUPPOSED to be a gov of, by, and for the
>> people. Yeah, how long did THAT last?  Not long.
>>
>
> That's it you see. We are supposed to be puppets; obey these stupid laws
> without question but we are thinking creatures. Though most of us aint
> Geniuses we are capable of spotting stupid laws. some rebel some don't.
> Some of us aren't sontent to be sheep.

The ones that never intended to be sheep got connections and clout and 
started to MAKE the laws, new ones - often shit that was against what people 
wanted.  Some people have no problem with the laws, even speeding laws - but 
that wasn't my point.  We are supposed to have freedom of speech here, and I 
don't mean usenet.  I mean professors speaking freely.  They do not have it. 
It's gone.  There is tyranny on the horizon now - and it IS tyranny.  Others 
just join gangs and break the laws and don't give a shit AT ALL about laws. 
They have their own laws - and they are of the jungle, for sure.  That's 
also no way to have a civilization or a society.


>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> nocTifer
>>>> luckymojo.com@nagasiva
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>