bsa relgious medal and wicca
Paul and Michele
: Well, whether or not YOU need them or not, many of us pagan parent types
: do feel that overall, scouting is a very positive experience for the
: children involved and often helps them to understand both the natural and
: social worlds that we live in.
That's probably true, Paul. When I was a boy I enjoyed my experience as a
Scout. But that isn't really the essence of what I'm getting at. If a
parent and their kid(s) find that the benefits of scouting outweigh the
many manifest drawbacks of the BSA'a prejudices, then I'd say ore power
to 'em. What I question is COG's determination to become associated with
the BSA. If ever the Scouts wake up and decide that you don't need to be
a straight man with a conventional religious outlook to be a scout or
scoutmaster, then I'd be delighted to hook up with them. Until then,
however, I can't see wasting the time and energy.
: My experience is that at the local level, people
: of all kinds and philosophies are involved and active. The national
: organization is in need of reforming, especially in terms of its outlooks
: on religion and homosexuality. If we value the other things that scouting
: teaches, then it makes much more sense to try to change what we don't like
: about it than to abandon it altogether. Without people willing to reform
: scouting, then it is doomed to become even more discriminatory and
: prejudicial (and, yes, there still LOTS of room for it to get worse).
I wish you all the luck in the world, and if I find an online copy of
"Don Quixote" I'll send you the site address. But as I said, until and
unless you and yours are successful, I'd be just as happy if COG would
find better uses for our resources.
--Paul
--
Paul Suliin and Michele Cox | Experience has shown that men
POB 1993 | and nations will often act
San Gabriel, CA 91778 | wisely, once they have exhausted
310/719-9097 | all available alternatives.
Raven
[snip]
| When I was a boy I enjoyed my experience as a
|Scout. But that isn't really the essence of what I'm getting at. If a
|parent and their kid(s) find that the benefits of scouting outweigh the
|many manifest drawbacks of the BSA'a prejudices, then I'd say ore power
|to 'em. What I question is COG's determination to become associated with
|the BSA. If ever the Scouts wake up and decide that you don't need to be
|a straight man with a conventional religious outlook to be a scout or
|scoutmaster, then I'd be delighted to hook up with them. Until then,
|however, I can't see wasting the time and energy.
Possibly COG believes that their continuing participation on positive
terms with the BSA will help _bring_about_ that "waking up".
[snip] But as I said, until and
|unless you and yours are successful, I'd be just as happy if COG would
|find better uses for our resources.
^^^
"OUR" resources? Are you a COG member, that you feel YOU have a share
in the resources COG is expending on giving pagan children a religious
option in the BSA? Or are you just speaking for "the Pagan Community"?
-- Raven (JSi...@Music.Lib.MATC.Edu). [All standard disclaimers apply]
Paul and Michele
: Possibly COG believes that their continuing participation on positive
: terms with the BSA will help _bring_about_ that "waking up".
The trouble is, Raven, that we're not on particularly positive terms with
the BSA. We present our proposal for the religious medal; they turn us
down. So far, that cycle has been about the extent of the relationship
: [snip] But as I said, until and
: |unless you and yours are successful, I'd be just as happy if COG would
: |find better uses for our resources.
: ^^^
: "OUR" resources? Are you a COG member, that you feel YOU have a share
: in the resources COG is expending on giving pagan children a religious
: option in the BSA? Or are you just speaking for "the Pagan Community"?
As a matter of fact, I am a COG member, Raven -- a Public Information
Officer with the Southern California Local Council. I hope that's OK.
BKZARDOZ
<JSI...@MUSIC.LIB.MATC.EDU> writes:
So, given your druthers, you'd as soon stop trying, and leave all the
pagan kids stuck between wanting to scout and wanting to hold their own
religion, with no bridge across the gap? Is that the solution you give?
Thank you Raven.
We can not give up or quit. Even in failure the work of educating the
world about Wicca goes on. And, someday we will succeed. For our children
and their children. Blessed Be
ZardoZ
BKZARDOZ
(Paul E. Meade) writes:
Subject: Re: BSA religious medal and Wicca
>In article <besnodeD...@netcom.com
>, bes...@netcom.com (Paul and Michele) writes:
>
> Great, then you might be a good person to ask this question: Why did
> COG go ahead and propose a pagan religious medal KNOWING the existing
> bias of the BSA? As I have said in previous posts, I DO believe in
> scouting as a positive experience for the children involved, but I
> also recognize the current shortcomings of the national organization.
> It would have seemed to me a foregone conclusion that the current
> national scouting leadership would reject the proposal. It makes more
> sense to work on changing the attitude first.
ZardoZ answers:
I am the chairman of the CoG Youth Relations Committee that has been
working with Amber K, CoG First Officer, for 4 years on these
negotiations. There are several reasons.
First. There is a significant portion of the Boy Scouts program that
would be beneficial to pagan youth. Their whole outdoor program is highly
compatible with pagan religious beliefs. For city youth, especially those
with single moms, it may be their only opportunity to get out into the
woods. There is also the semblance of the ancient tribal rituals of the
men taking the boys to the woods to learn about manhood, a very valuable
function not found in other parts of today’s culture. Many pagan youth
belong to Scout troops sponsored by other religions, and many pagan men
and women are scout leaders with troops sponsored by other religions.
Second. Few, if any, Wiccan or pagan churches have youth programs. The
Scouting program can be adopted in whole, or adapted to fit into a pagan
religious format. The BSA rules specifically suggest adding religious
teaching to the standard program, without specifying what religion should
be taught. As Wiccan and Pagan churches move toward acceptance in our
communities, and take our place as normal functioning parts of our
communities, we need to offer programs for our children. We can not be
just adults forever. Many other religions, with much less compatibility
in the outdoor/nature part of scouting, have successfully used the BSA
program as their youth program. We can too, and it will be beneficial to
many of our member churches.
Third. The BSA belongs to the Chartering Organizations in a cooperative
corporation arrangement. By becoming members, we will have a voice and a
vote in their policies. It will be valuable for our country for a pagan
voice to be heard in their councils. They will have a great deal of
influence on the youth of America for a long time. As long as they teach
prejudice and bigotry, BSA will in part be a negative influence. When and
if we gain access to speak in their inner circles, and to vote in their
decision making bodies, we will be a force to change BSA. As long as we
stand aside and complain, they will continue to discriminate. We have no
right to complain if we are not willing to do the work, to take the steps,
and to make the effort to help BSA make the changes it needs to make for
American youth of the next century.
Forth. Even if we are never successful in sponsoring Scout Troops for our
youth, we make ourselves known to Scouters around the country. BSA is not
a homogeneous bunch of bigots. There is turmoil within even now. Many of
their Chartered Partners, like the Jews and LDS, believe strongly in
freedom of religion. BSA has said for some time that they do not
discriminate against particular religions, they only require boys to
believe in God. We come along and say, We believe in God!, in fact we
believe in ALL Gods. We are a thorn in their side and a force for change
even from without. We also have an opportunity to educate the world about
the truth of Wicca rather than the left over propaganda that they all
accept.
Fifth. Both Amber and I have teenage sons, as do many Wiccans and other
Pagans.
If you have any further questions on CoG, they may be addressed to CoG,
POB 1226, Berkeley, CA 94701. Or, to the net officer: mth...@aol.com.
CoG has applied for a Internet domain: cog.org, but that is pending.