new Spell Casting site
safec...@netscape.net
http://free-love-spells.net/
I have been casting love spells and money spells for 14 years now, and
recently went online. My success rate is quite high, and I included a
link on my site to verifiable (thru Ebay feedback) testimonials.
Thank you.
Katerina
Tom
<safec...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1137616106.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Just a brief post to announce my new site at:
> http://free-love-spells.net/
>
>
> I have been casting love spells and money spells for 14 years now, and
> recently went online.
Now that you can finally afford it?
Wally Anglesea™
So what you are saying, basically, that coercion for someone to have a
relationship with you is ok?
--
Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
How to Cook an Alien:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/Alien_recipes.html
"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Archangel
Great. Another Yronwode. Just what is needed. Someone else to sell 'spells'
to the stupid and gullible.
__________________________
A
This is my killfile list. if you are on it, it is because I think you are
an idiot. Because I think you are an idiot you have nothing to say that I
want to hear so save yourself the effort of replying to my posts, because I
wont even see them unless I lift the killfile list.
Which makes you an irrelevant idiot, but fortunately one whose visibility I
control.
dialectical...@gmail.com (I forget who this is. Some sad shit)
rapiddom...@yahoo.com (Yronwode the strange purveyor of many wierd
things)
askper...@comcast.net (Tom the psychotic troll)
vinc...@tpg.com.au (Rosifer - Ocker meets occult)
asiya_...@KAPHCHETHsbcglobal.net (Asiya - the teenage witch)
use...@mpreston.demon.co.uk (a real wally)
mik...@gmail.com (just plain ordinary trailer trash)
missam...@cox.net (Douggie the resident junkie)
Cothrom
> On 18 Jan 2006 12:28:26 -0800, safec...@netscape.net wrote:
>
>> Just a brief post to announce my new site at:
>> http://free-love-spells.net/
>>
>>
>> I have been casting love spells and money spells for 14 years now, and
>> recently went online. My success rate is quite high, and I included a
>> link on my site to verifiable (thru Ebay feedback) testimonials.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>> Katerina
>
>
> So what you are saying, basically, that coercion for someone to have a
> relationship with you is ok?
So of course it's OK to pay someone to hex someone else! Ethically, I
would not be feeling to well about myself if I was Katerina. But, we
all have to live by our own morals I guess.
LuckyH.
Archangel wrote:
> Great. Another Yronwode. Just what is needed. Someone else to sell 'spells'
> to the stupid and gullible.
Cat Yronwode doesn't sell "spells" like you claim above. She sells
Curios from around the world as well as Hoodoo/Occult Items and
Spiritual Products.
Check her site out at:
-Jason
Archangel
"LuckyH." <Lucky...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1137682273....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Yes yes. And 'spells'. To the stupid and/or gullible. A sale does not
always involve the exchange of money.
A
Asiya
Wow! For only $52.99, I too can grow a cup size in 24 hours!
http://free-love-spells.net/129.htm
Why is the domain name *free* love spells when you're charging?
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/asiya/
Tom
"Asiya" <asiya_...@VITRIOLsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:zyZAf.1904$2O6...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> <safec...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:1137616106.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> Just a brief post to announce my new site at:
>> http://free-love-spells.net/
>>
>> I have been casting love spells and money spells for 14 years now, and
>> recently went online. My success rate is quite high, and I included a
>> link on my site to verifiable (thru Ebay feedback) testimonials.
>
> Wow! For only $52.99, I too can grow a cup size in 24 hours!
Those internet-based plastic surgeons work cheap.
> http://free-love-spells.net/129.htm
>
> Why is the domain name *free* love spells when you're charging?
Perhaps it's the love that's free, but not the spells.
I have some questions about the logic of a guy who can get all the money he
wants by casting spells who runs a business that sells this service for...
money. ???
Asiya
news:0padnWtsDd1...@comcast.com...
The website could be seen as a magickal operation to bring steady
money...but let's see if it's still around after six months.
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Manifestation Master
Asiya
news:drloq9$q4n$1...@domitilla.aioe.org...
Playing with a computer program is usually safer than getting off your
ass and doing something, yeah. At least in the short-term.
safec...@netscape.net
1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has the word
"free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
2. I'm not a guy. In most countries, Katerina is not a guy's name.
3. You act surprised that some people ask for money for services
rendered? In your world, do lawyers, doctors and actors work for the
simple gratification of serving you? A good job deserves to be
compensated.
You sound like you could use a little spiritual assistance. Perhaps a
custom spell?
Katerina
http://free-love-spells.net/
Gary Woods
>1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has the word
>"free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
In my world, if you have to buy something to get something else, it isn't
"free." Discounted, perhaps, but not free.
I don't claim any particular enlightenment, but my understanding is that
love spells are generally a karmic disaster: You're compelling someone to
something they wouldn't otherwise have done.
But that's just my opinion.
I may be wrong.
--
Gary Woods O- K2AHC Public keys at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic, or get 0x1D64A93D via keyserver
fingerprint = E2 6F 50 93 7B C7 F3 CA 1F 8B 3C C0 B0 28 68 0B
Wally Anglesea™
>You sound very enlightened... NOT!
>
>1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has the word
>"free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
So it's not "free" at all.....
>2. I'm not a guy. In most countries, Katerina is not a guy's name.
>3. You act surprised that some people ask for money for services
>rendered? In your world, do lawyers, doctors and actors work for the
>simple gratification of serving you? A good job deserves to be
>compensated.
>
>You sound like you could use a little spiritual assistance. Perhaps a
>custom spell?
So you espouse coercion.
Tom
<safec...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1138727470.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> You sound very enlightened... NOT!
Now, is that something the Buddha would have said?
> 1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has the word
> "free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
That's not free. That's the group discount. However, this prompts another
question. Why would one want to buy *three* love spells? Do they wear out
quickly?
> 2. I'm not a guy. In most countries,
Sorry, I just couldn't resist cutting this sentence off at that point.
> Katerina is not a guy's name.
Not usually perhaps, but I bet there are some guys who have adopted the
name.
> 3. You act surprised that some people ask for money for services
> rendered?
I'd act surprised if the services you claim to render actually do anything
at all.
> You sound like you could use a little spiritual assistance. Perhaps a
> custom spell?
How about a free sample?
Cujo DeSockpuppet
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
> You sound very enlightened... NOT!
You sound like every third-rate fuckhead I've ever encountered.
> 1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has the word
> "free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
Why doesn't it have the word "ripoff" in it too, fuckweasel?
> 2. I'm not a guy. In most countries, Katerina is not a guy's name.
Which planet is this?
> 3. You act surprised that some people ask for money for services
> rendered? In your world, do lawyers, doctors and actors work for the
> simple gratification of serving you? A good job deserves to be
> compensated.
Good thought. Got any references?
> You sound like you could use a little spiritual assistance. Perhaps a
> custom spell?
Yeah, get me one that'll make you go away and send me money, spammer.
--
Cujo - The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in
dfw.*, alt.paranormal, alt.astrology and alt.astrology.metapsych.
Winner of the 8/2000 & 2/2003 HL&S award & July 2005 Hammer of Thor.
Colonel of the Fanatic Legion. FL# 555-PLNTY Motto: ABUNDANCE!.
Supreme Holy Overlord of alt.fucknozzles. Hail Petitmorte!
"I have a "bit of education", that's why I don't fall for spinic crap
like yours." - Ed showing off his education but not his diplomas.
Asiya
news:1138727470.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> You sound very enlightened... NOT!
Is enlightenment a requirement to comment about a love spell website?
> 1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has the word
> "free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
You have "free love spells" listed as part of your Winter Specials. What
will you do when winter ends?
> You sound like you could use a little spiritual assistance. Perhaps a
> custom spell?
Please don't pretend that you offer "spiritual assistance".
A serious question now. At the bottom of your pages you have the
disclaimer: "Legal Stuff: Law requirement states that psychic readings
and spells are for entertainment purposes only;" What law requires
this?
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Asiya
news:8o8vt1h4n48qrjm41...@4ax.com...
> safec...@netscape.net wrote:
>
>>1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has the word
>>"free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
>
> In my world, if you have to buy something to get something else, it
> isn't
> "free." Discounted, perhaps, but not free.
It would be free only if the buyer was going to pay for the two spells
anyway without the "incentive" of the third free spell. Like if you go
to a restaurant for lunch and they give you a free drink, you were gonna
get a drink anyway, so it's free. If you went there *only* 'cause they
were offering free drinks, it wouldn't be free.
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Asiya
>> word
>> "free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
>
> That's not free. That's the group discount. However, this prompts
> another question. Why would one want to buy *three* love spells? Do
> they wear out quickly?
heh. The site says that your first two spells can be of any type, looks
like she also offers a few money spells and a weight loss spell. Egads!
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Cothrom
is a conscience to uphold) If I dig around in some of my grandfathers
stuff, I am sure I can get some snake oil to add to the mix! <8-)
Archangel
<safec...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1138727470.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
The only thing spells are good for is a competition in grade school. Other
than that you might be in the very small minority of occultists who believe
they actually have some merit.
Still, they do say there is one born every minute. I suppose you were the
one for your minute.
A
Gary Woods
>Still, they do say there is one born every minute
It's clear to me that P.T. Barnum's estimate was _way_ low.
Bright Blessings,
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
Tom
"Asiya" <asiya_...@VITRIOLsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> <safec...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:1138727470.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> You sound very enlightened... NOT!
>
> Is enlightenment a requirement to comment about a love spell website?
Or to run one?
Tom
"Archangel" <Arch...@nulldev.com> wrote in message
news:jz2Ef.17853$mI2....@fe08.news.easynews.com...
>
> The only thing spells are good for is a competition in grade school. Other
> than that you might be in the very small minority of occultists who
> believe they actually have some merit.
Then again, there is only a very small minority of occultists who can spell.
> Still, they do say there is one born every minute.
So they do, Archie, so they do.
Cardinal Chunder
> You sound very enlightened... NOT!
>
> 1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has the word
> "free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
I feel like selling spells too! Buy 1 spell (of $50 value!) and get 99 free.
They all do the same which is precisely nothing at all.
> 2. I'm not a guy. In most countries, Katerina is not a guy's name.
> 3. You act surprised that some people ask for money for services
> rendered? In your world, do lawyers, doctors and actors work for the
> simple gratification of serving you? A good job deserves to be
> compensated.
How do we know you will do a good job? Have you had your spells tested
in an environment that prevents cheating or self delusion?
> You sound like you could use a little spiritual assistance. Perhaps a
> custom spell?
So your standard spells are boiler plate incantations?
catherine yronwode
>
> A serious question now. At the bottom of your pages you have the
> disclaimer: "Legal Stuff: Law requirement states that psychic readings
> and spells are for entertainment purposes only;" What law requires
> this?
There are so many laws like this on the books in the United States that
listing them would be quite a chore. Since i don't know where the
original poster lives, i can't look up her local laws, but here,
courtesy of google, are three pointers toward the sort of information
you are seeking:
------
The North Carolina anti-divination law was only repealed in 2004:
http://members.aol.com/oldenwilde/gen_info/blk_rib/nclaw.html
------
It is against the law to read cards for pay in Colbert County, Alabama:
http://www.ador.state.al.us/licenses/sec104.html
"It is unlawful for any person, for any fee or other valuable
consideration, to engage in the practice of fortune telling, palmistry,
mind reading, astrology, clairvoyance or any other practice involving
the alleged
foretelling of events or prophesying of the future, in Colbert County."
Note that this is a total ban on fortunetelling for payment of fees.
However, in Colbert Cunty, there is one exemption to the law: You may
charge for occult goods and items you sell (e.g. spiritual supplies,
curios, spell kts, oils, incense, candles), but in a catch-22, you still
have to pay a license fee for being a fortuneteller:
"A fortune teller giving free readings but selling other items pursuant
to the reading being given is still required to purchase a license as
any fee charged directly or indirectly requires a license."
The license and fee is $61.00 per year -- and it only covers one county.
To practice statewide in Alabama, one must buy a license in each county
and still cannot practice at all in Colbert County:
"One state license is not sufficient for a fortune teller to do business
throughout the state and in each county in the state. Such fortune
teller must purchase a state and county license in each county they do
business."
------
But, getting down to the case of Katerina and her "entertainment"
disclaimer, here is a typical law relaveant to that form of disclaimer:
The Woodland, California Municipal anti-fortunetelln=ng law text is at
http://www.ci.woodland.ca.us/cityhall/code/_DATA/CHAPTER15/Sec__15_30__Fortunetelling_.html
-- and it includes this wordage:
“'Fortunetelling' shall mean and include telling of fortunes,
forecasting of future events or furnishing any information not otherwise
obtainable by the ordinary process of knowledge, by means of any occult
or psychic power, faculty or force, including, but not included to,
clairvoyance, clairaudience, cartomancy, phrenology, spirits, tea leaves
or other such reading, mediumship, seership, prophecy, augury,
astrology, palmistry, necromancy, mindreading, telepathy, or other
craft, art, cards, talisman, charm, potion, magnetism, magnetized
article or substance, crystal gazing, or magic, of any kind or nature."
If you read the entire text, you will see that in order to read tarot
cards or practice astrology for pay in Woodland, one must apply for a
special license, submit to being fingerprinted, supply a criminal
history (if any), post a sign stating exact fees to be charged, and so
forth and so on -- unless one practices under one of the two following exemptions:
1) ENTERTAINMENT: "The provisions of this section shall not apply to any
person engaged solely in the business of entertaining the public by
demonstrations of fortunetelling at public places." -- in other words,
if one proclaims that the divination is for "entertainment purposes" one
need not be finger-printed and registered with the local government,
2) RELIGION: The provisions of this section shall not apply to any
person conducting or participating in any religious ceremony or service
when such person holds a certificate of ordination as a minister,
missionary, healer, or clairvoyant (hereinafter collectively referred to
as minister) from any bona fide church or religious association
maintaining a church and holding regular services and having a creed or
set of religious principles that is recognized by all churches of like
faith" -- in other words, members of the Spiritual Church Movement can
practice spiritualism without being fingerprinted and licensed.
------
These were just three examples out of thousands in this country. Check
it out -- these laws are ubiquitous. In some places, like Colbert
County, Alabama, the work is banned utterly; in others, such as
Woodland, California, there are "entertainment" and "religion"
exemptions to the ban. Obviously, Katerina lives in an area where there
are "entertainment" exemptions that allow her to practice divination or
spell-casting for payment of fees.
I'm surprised you didn't know this, Asiya -- don't you read tarot cards
for payment of fees? If you do, you might want to check out your locl
laws. All people engaged in supplying professional occult services of
any kind must be familiar with local laws or be prepared to face a legal
smackdwn if they live in one of the many cities or counties where card
reading or spell casting is regulated or banned.
cat yronwode
Archangel
> "Archangel" <Arch...@nulldev.com> wrote:
>
>>Still, they do say there is one born every minute
>
> It's clear to me that P.T. Barnum's estimate was _way_ low.
Very true...
A
voodoochristmasclown
you'd protect your ass too to keep losing a wad of capital.
LuckyH.
anti-fortune-teller laws. The biggest threat In my opinion, is from
accusations of Fraud and Practicing Medicine without a License.
-Jason
Quimbisero
that unfamiliarity with the law is not considered an acceptable defence
and there are a few places in the US, if my memory serves me, where you
could actually do time for such things. Various local and state
agencies will prosecute, especially if either a government official is
eager or if there have been any kinds of complaint. Given the rise of
Evangelical influence, this is likely to get worse, not better.
Eoghan
Joseph Littleshoes
WARNING ANECDOTE!!!
Back in the early 80' right after Reagan was first elected the Berkeley
Ca. police decided "it was a new day in America" and they did not want
"my kind" on the streets of berkeley any more, "my kind" being a
'fortune teller' working the infamous berkeley telegraph avenue street
market.
It mattered not to the police that as a member of a legal pagan church i
had a permit from the city of berkeley to do just such a thing. I was
ordered off the street.
After consulting with a lawyer we brought a complaint to the police
review commission and had the Berkeley city council overturn their old
ordinance against 'fortune telling' our lawyer then forwarded our paper
work to the state supreme court which over turned such ordinances state
wide.
Several communities tried to impose 'bonds' or other restrictions on
'fortune tellers' but these to were struck down.
Like everything else this had a down side in that it opened the mass
market for all the 1 - 800 - tele phones, the mass marketed Miss Cleos
and her assorted ilk.
I have condensed this account for brevity, but it occurs to me to relate
a part that became very embarrassing to the berkeley police. As they
kept me off the street for about 3 weeks, one reader who was blind and a
real macho type just 'thumbed his nose' at the police and continued to
read tarot cards, when he refused to stop he was arrested and charged
with being a 'seer'. This blind 'seer' became a bit of a cause celeb and
made the berkeley police a bit of a laughing stock, during the same
period the berkeley police arrested a buddhist monk who did nothing but
sit silently with his begging bowl, they never hassled the 'spare
changers' but arrested a buddhist monk, go figger!
Appropriately this attempted purge was led by the aptly named officer
"Shaftsky" im not kidding that is what his name tag read and he was
famous for planting drugs on people and otherwise 'shafting' those he
considered undesirables, he was transferred off the telegraph avenue
beat as a result of our efforts and later left the berkeley police force
out of disgust for its inability to get rid of us corrupt sinners.
Curiously enough the 'hair weavers' had a mush more difficult time
getting recognition and waged a much longer fight to be allowed to
practice their craft, but they to eventually prevailed.
---
JL
Karipidu Marianna
"Joseph Littleshoes" <jpst...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:43E268E9...@pacbell.net...
> > -Jason
> WARNING ANECDOTE!!!
> JL
Joseph, read this:
Trio Charged in Md. Fortunetelling Scheme The fortuneteller offered to quash an
ancient curse that plagued Linli Mckay and her family ... Fortunetelling for profit is
a violation of Maryland law. ...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ content/article/2006/01/20/AR2006012001975.html -
Similar pages
nagasiva
Asiya to another:
>> A serious question now. At the bottom of your pages you have the
>> disclaimer: "Legal Stuff: Law requirement states that psychic readings
>> and spells are for entertainment purposes only;" What law requires
>> this?
catherine yronwode <c...@luckymojo.com>:
> There are so many laws like this on the books in the United States....
<snip great selection!>
> I'm surprised you didn't know this, Asiya -- don't you read tarot
> cards for payment of fees? If you do, you might want to check out
> your local laws. All people engaged in supplying professional
> occult services of any kind must be familiar with local laws
> or be prepared to face a legal smackdwn if they live in one of
> the many cities or counties where card reading or spell casting
> is regulated or banned.
indeed. sometimes inroads can be made by those willing to bear up
under the laws that be and then foment less restrictions and unfair
penalties. religions that practice divination in particular may
even have a foot in the door with such groups as the ACLU.
as long as religion and state are supposed separate, there
seems room to improve on draconian restrictions against
divination and magic on the part conservative groups who have
effectively placed a stranglehold on it in their area through
participatory lawmaking.
nagasiva
Karipidu Marianna
"Karipidu Marianna" <kari...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7pydnTMs_r3...@comcast.com...
>
> "Joseph Littleshoes" <jpst...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:43E268E9...@pacbell.net...
> > LuckyH. wrote:
> > > I'm not sure if any county, state, etc... would prosecute based on
> > > anti-fortune-teller laws. The biggest threat In my opinion, is from
> > > accusations of Fraud and Practicing Medicine without a License.
> > > -Jason
> > WARNING ANECDOTE!!!
> Joseph, read this:
> Trio Charged in Md. Fortunetelling Scheme The fortuneteller offered to quash an
> ancient curse that plagued Linli Mckay and her family ... Fortunetelling for profit
is
> a violation of Maryland law. ...
> www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/
content/article/2006/01/20/AR2006012001975.html -
> Similar pages
Trio Charged in Md. Fortunetelling Scheme
Police Say Montgomery Woman Paid Thousands to Have 'Curse' Removed
By Ernesto Londoρo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 21, 2006; Page B01
The fortuneteller offered to quash an ancient curse that plagued Linli Mckay and her
family with the help of an egg and dollar bills galore.
Montgomery County authorities say Mckay's real curse was her happenstance meeting with
the Chevy Chase fortuneteller at a mall last January.
Their subsequent relationship, which authorities say bilked Mckay, 56, of Poolesville,
out of more than $75,000, has landed the 60-year-old fortuneteller, her husband and
one of their daughters in court. They are charged with theft, conspiracy and
fortunetelling.
Fortunetelling for profit is a violation of Maryland law.
Montgomery County Assistant State's Attorney Carol Crawford said the fortuneteller,
Grace Uwanawich, almost certainly will face additional charges as detectives learn
more about her work.
Montgomery County District Court Judge Louis D. Harrington released Uwanawich and her
daughter, Christine Kelly Miller, 26, on $75,000 bonds yesterday, despite Crawford's
concern that they were likely to flee the state and prevent other potential victims
from contacting authorities.
George Uwanawich, 52, was not released because authorities are investigating whether
he violated the terms of his release on probation in a South Florida drug case.
Relatives of the defendants and two attorneys representing the family declined to
comment after the bond hearing.
Police said Grace Uwanawich met Mckay last January at Lake Forrest Mall. According to
investigators, Grace Uwanawich presented herself as a Native American palmist and
psychic with more than 30 years of experience who provided services worldwide, and
Mckay made an appointment to see the fortuneteller at her Connecticut Avenue
apartment.
Authorities said Grace Uwanawich told Mckay that she and her family had a curse
"dating back to the building of the Great Wall of China." Mckay, who is of Chinese
descent, was told the curse, which she inherited from her mother, would keep everyone
in her family indefinitely unhappy and poor. Attempts to reach Mckay were
unsuccessful.
Grace Uwanawich said her services were free, but she requested that Mckay bring her
all her money so it could be taken to a church to "clean it of bad spirits," and then
it would be returned to her, police said.
According to a charging document, the fortuneteller gave Mckay a candle to burn at
home and told her to put an egg under her bed before going to sleep. Mckay brought the
egg back the next meeting, and the fortuneteller wrapped it in a handkerchief and
cracked it.
"Mckay smelled a bad odor and observed that the egg contained hair and something that
she described as looking like a chicken liver," Detective Brandon Mengedoht wrote in
the court document. "Grace stated that it was from her curse and that it was the
devil."
Mckay was asked to liquidate her bank accounts, police said. She sold her stocks and
borrowed $55,000 from her sister, police said. Mckay also was asked to use her
American Express card to pick up the tab for a $3,098 Saks Fifth Avenue gift
certificate, $8,119 in Cartier jewelry and $1,900 in items from Hermes, according to
the police document.
Police said she also was asked to buy a 2006 Mercedes-Benz, which she was told she
would be able to drive once the curse was lifted. She never got in the car, which was
found parked in front of the Connecticut Avenue apartment.
When Mckay ran out of cash, Grace Uwanawich asked her to sell her house, police said.
Mckay said she could not do so because she lived with relatives.
Crawford, the prosecutor, said yesterday that detectives recently learned from another
victim that shortly after the Jan. 11 arrest of the three family members, one of the
couple's daughters called the second victim to tell her that Grace Uwanawich had been
assaulted while cleansing her curse. The victim was told not to turn on the television
or touch the phone, Crawford said.
Joseph Littleshoes
> "Karipidu Marianna" <kari...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:7pydnTMs_r3...@comcast.com...
>
>>"Joseph Littleshoes" <jpst...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>news:43E268E9...@pacbell.net...
>>
>>>LuckyH. wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm not sure if any county, state, etc... would prosecute based on
>>>>anti-fortune-teller laws. The biggest threat In my opinion, is from
>>>>accusations of Fraud and Practicing Medicine without a License.
>>>>-Jason
>
>
>>>WARNING ANECDOTE!!!
>>
>>Joseph, read this:
While it is regrettable that some so called 'fortune tellers' use the
tools of the art to scam people it is necessary to point out that while
lawyers, doctors, plumbers, scientists and other professionals do the
same thing, there is no rush to pass laws or ordinances preventing those
professionals from practising their craft, individuals may be de bared
or forbidden to practise but no attempt is made to eliminate the
professions as a whole.
Thieves exist and their are laws against stealing or embezzling of
scaming people out of their money or property, putting all 'fortune
tellers' in the same categories as thieves is an unfortunate hold over
from the days when it was possible to pass laws based on religion.
Every few years laws are attempted to be formulated banning animal
sacrifice by pagan or voodoo groups, and always fails when Rabbis insist
on an exception being made for them.
---
JL
Vanirhawk
case the local gestapo or religious nuts get interested, I have the
following in small print on the package --
"By law, no claims can be made as to the efficacy of this product, thus it
is sold as a curio only."
Vanirhawk
"catherine yronwode" <c...@luckymojo.com> wrote in message
news:43E1D903...@luckymojo.com...
Asiya
>>
>> A serious question now. At the bottom of your pages you have the
>> disclaimer: "Legal Stuff: Law requirement states that psychic
>> readings
>> and spells are for entertainment purposes only;" What law requires
>> this?
>
> There are so many laws like this on the books in the United States
> that
> listing them would be quite a chore. Since i don't know where the
> original poster lives, i can't look up her local laws, but here,
> courtesy of google, are three pointers toward the sort of information
> you are seeking:
Thanks for looking up the examples. I was aware of local
anti-fortune-telling laws like this. And for more, check out JK's Tarot
News page where he has archived a few recent instances of people
fighting back - http://www.jktarot.com/news.html .
For some reason, maybe the wording, I thought she was referring to a
*federal* law that requires this "entertainment only" disclaimer (maybe
since I've also seen it on national TV commercials).
> I'm surprised you didn't know this, Asiya -- don't you read tarot
> cards
> for payment of fees?
That's why I was asked. :) Thankfully my state, county, and city
don't have anti-fortune-telling laws.
catherine yronwode
>
> I make spiritual powders to sell in a local shop and, to cover my butt in
> case the local gestapo or religious nuts get interested, I have the
> following in small print on the package --
>
> "By law, no claims can be made as to the efficacy of this product, thus it
> is sold as a curio only."
>
> Vanirhawk
Thank you for speaking up. I use a similar disclaimer and have been
hounded for years by usenet skeptics posing as mages who assert that
because my products carry the well-known "curio disclaimer" i am a fake
who does not believe in the work i do.
To put this in a more positive light, i am glad to see the matter
dicussed, because i think that if people were better informed about
these repressive laws, they would understand that those of us who
provide spiritual services and goods are often obliged to resort to
standard disclaimers in order to avoid even further incursions against
our rights of free speech.
cat yronwode
Archangel
"nagasiva" <yronwode.com@nagasiva> wrote in message
news:43e27fbe$0$58052$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Nagasiva.
Greatly though I mosty admire your work, there are occasions when you need
to
take a nice swim in the real world.
The laws are there because too many people were ripped off. Same as the New
Age chanellers, mostly frauds from head to toe. The laws, while possibly
unfair to people who wish to make a living out of fortune telling are
necessary because of the number of frauds and scam artists who feed off the
desperate, stupid or gullible.
If you only have fortune telling or selling silly spells as a means to make
a living you are
probably in deep shit anyway.
A
Archangel
They are not repressive laws; your definition of repressive laws appears to
be laws which prevent you from doing what you want to do.
The laws are there to protect the vulnerable, gullible or intellectually
weak from frauds and scams. If you sell products which cannot be proved to
work as described or suggested then you should be subject to constraint.
A
Neil Trigger
sometimes and as for actors... well actually yeah, but having said all of
that, I agree that a good job and hard work should not be slated or deserve
no remuneration. I think anyone who has a saleable comodity should be able
to trade without being shot.
Having said that "get one free" on anything is (imho) a misleading term. You
get all three reduced by the cost of one single item if you buy in bulk...
that doesn't mean it's free. 3 for the price of 2... not buy one get one
free... I've never liked that since I was a kid, but it's up to the dealer
how they choose to advertise and up to the purchaser whether they want to
buy it... So lets all just relax a little.
If you don't want to buy something - don't!!
Did you know that the average time spent on a website that does not have
what you want on it is 20 seconds!! (Yes I know that because I have studied
I.T. at degree level) so is 20 seconds from your life so valuable??
Obviously spending more time writing a post like this one proves that no...
in fact you have plenty of time to waste. :o)
Be happy. Did you know smiling makes you and those around you smile and
happy to?!!?
--
Neil Trigger
Magic2k Managing Director
http://www.magic2k.com
http://www.magic2k.co.uk
<safec...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1138727470.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> You sound very enlightened... NOT!
>
> 1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has the word
> "free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free spell.
> 2. I'm not a guy. In most countries, Katerina is not a guy's name.
> 3. You act surprised that some people ask for money for services
> rendered? In your world, do lawyers, doctors and actors work for the
> simple gratification of serving you? A good job deserves to be
> compensated.
>
> You sound like you could use a little spiritual assistance. Perhaps a
> custom spell?
>
> Katerina
> http://free-love-spells.net/
>
Joseph Littleshoes
LuckyH.
Archangel wrote:
> They are not repressive laws; your definition of repressive laws appears to
> be laws which prevent you from doing what you want to do.
>
> The laws are there to protect the vulnerable, gullible or intellectually
> weak from frauds and scams. If you sell products which cannot be proved to
> work as described or suggested then you should be subject to constraint.
>
> A
That's a weird tone coming from somebody posting to "magical" NG's.
Not only is it
weird, but also incorrect. You only have to restrain from using
specific language. For example:
"Our Hawthorne Berry formula cures Diabetes." - This statement can get
you in trouble.
"Our Hawthorne Berry formula assists the body's natural production of
insulin"
-This statement is quite safe. It makes no outright claims other than
"assisting" which can be proved in a court of law, even if only via
certain vitamens and minerals found in Hawethorne Berries, as well as
other sources, which are needed for the body to produce insulin in the
first place.
(Note, I have no clue as to the actual properties of Hawthorne Berries
and have only used them in this example.)
Also, there is no law protecting the "vulnerable, gullible, or
intellectualy weak", as you put it. Have you noticed how many
supplements, lotions, pills, liquids, creams, sprays, tonics, and other
associated mediums for a wide range of problems that either cannot be
resolved or in which the person is looking for a quick fix. (Ex- Hair
Loss, Impotence, Obesity, Anti-Aging, Anti-Wrinkle, Mood Elevator,
Energy Booster, et cetera, et cetera...)
"Spiritual Products" are also sold. Yes, those who have no idea about
Hoodoo or any magic tradition may get upset when said product doesn't
work. However, the majority of individuals who purchase said goods
fully understand and are completely aware that the products are in no
way guarenteed to work. It is simply understood that any outcomes
depend on the knowledge and skill of the practioner, as well as the
grace and blessing of "God/Gods/The Universe/Fate/etc...". The fact
that companies such as LuckyMojo use phrases like "Sold as Curio Only"
in no way can be taken to imply that Cat Yronwode, and other shop
owners, are purposefuly conning and defrauding customers. Instead,
most people correctly interpret such action to mean "We instinctively
know that none of these products are guarenteed anyway, but to prevent
any subsequent legal repurcussions, we are incorporating these phrases
onto our product line."
-Jason
Quimbisero
LuckyH. wrote:
> That's a weird tone coming from somebody posting to "magical" NG's.
> Not only is it
> Also, there is no law protecting the "vulnerable, gullible, or
> intellectualy weak", as you put it.
There are plenty of laws intended to do precisely that, protect those
in society who are otherwise less able to defend themselves, and by
extention to protect everyone from unscrupulous cons.
Everything from the requirement to disclose the contents on any kind of
consumable good, to laws such as the highly touted "Megan's Law" and
many in between, including the majority which restrict fortune telling
can be counted among those laws enacted to protect the public. Now, we
could debate til the cows come home whether they were all enacted with
the same level of public interest motivating the lawmakers, or how
successful they are at accomplishing their original intent, but to say
that "there is no law protecting the 'vulnerable, gullible, or
intellectually weak' is just plain rediculuous, especially when we are
discussing precisely such laws.
Eoghan
LuckyH.
>in society who are otherwise less able to defend themselves, and by
>extention to protect everyone from unscrupulous cons.
Then name one. You might want to research the latin phrase "Caveat
Emptor".
The current laws do not protect the "vulnerable, gullible, or
intellectualy weak" as the poster stated and any person with even the
slightest knowledge of how Amercian society operates can attest to that
fact. The Law assumes that all buyers are acting within their right
mind when purchasing said goods or services. Those whom the law deem
unable to participate in this activity are those whom the law states
are either not in their sound mind, via mental illness or disorder, or
who by law do not possess said rights until they are considered adults.
That's how the law works, not to protect those who are "mentaly weak"
from becoming victims, but by preventing them from engaging in said
activities in the first place. This is why these individuals must have
either an adult or care-taker make decisions for them.
>Everything from the requirement to disclose the contents on any kind of
>consumable good, to laws such as the highly touted "Megan's Law" and
>many in between, including the majority which restrict fortune telling
>can be counted among those laws enacted to protect the public.
You know (or should know) better. A law remains on the books until
it's premis is challenged in supreme court. The Anti-Fortune-Telling
Laws as well as Anti-Witchcraft laws are religiously based, and each
and every time they have come before the Supreme Court they have been
shot down due to the Freedom of Religion. Hell, in England, a case
brought to trial ended up proving in a court of law that ESP/Psychic
Phenemona was correct. A woman was brought to trial on anti-witchcraft
laws and her defense lawyer realized that there existed a loop-hole in
the law. She could only be convicted if her psychic reading could be
proven to be incorrect. If it turned out the reading was acurate then
she technicly did not meet the qualifications of being prosecuted for
breaking such law. She ended up proving to the court that her reading
was correct and all charges were dropped. The resulting attention led
to the widespread removal of anti-witchcraft laws over much of the
United Kingdom. So how should we respond? Yes, you can be arrested and
prosecuted. This can be quite a drain on your personal finances, but if
you fight it all the way through you will be rewarded. The Supreme
Court will ultimately rule in your favor.
>Now, we
>could debate til the cows come home whether they were all enacted with
>the same level of public interest motivating the lawmakers, or how
>successful they are at accomplishing their original intent, but to say
>that "there is no law protecting the 'vulnerable, gullible, or
>intellectually weak' is just plain rediculuous, especially when we are
>discussing precisely such laws.
>Eoghan
(Nothing further to add since I proved above these statements are
incorrect.)
-Jason
LuckyH.
LuckyH. wrote:
> Then name one. You might want to research the latin phrase "Caveat
> Emptor".
> The current laws do not protect the "vulnerable, gullible, or
> intellectualy weak" as the poster stated and any person with even the
> slightest knowledge of how Amercian society operates can attest to that
> fact. The Law assumes that all buyers are acting within their right
> mind when purchasing said goods or services. Those whom the law deem
> unable to participate in this activity are those whom the law states
> are either not in their sound mind, via mental illness or disorder, or
> who by law do not possess said rights until they are considered adults.
> That's how the law works, not to protect those who are "mentaly weak"
> from becoming victims, but by preventing them from engaging in said
> activities in the first place. This is why these individuals must have
> either an adult or care-taker make decisions for them.
(snip)
I would like to clarify that the only laws directed toward those who
manafacture/sell goods or services is that they cannot intentionaly
commit fraud nor can they knowingly sell goods/services that prove
dangerous or harmful to life and well-being of the uninformed public.
(Unless you are a Tobacco Company, apparantly. Now that they have added
medical warnings to their products, they are subsequently protected.)
Also note that a company can commit unintentional fraud. You could use
any of Luckymojo's oils, incenses, or sachet powders as example. Cat
Yronwode clearly expresses that said items are used to magicaly draw
luck, love, money, protections, revenge, and various other conditions.
If Cat Yronwode left it at that then she would be guilty of commiting
intentional fraud. The fact that she includes the phrase "Sold as
Curio Only" provides her legal protection specificly because it shifts
her from the catagory of "intentional fraud" to that of "unintentional
fraud". If the buyer purchases said items and fails to read this
phrase on the package or the same phrase on the website in which the
order was placed, then he has no legal precident to base a lawsuit on
simply because he failed to read the fine print.
This also reminds me of "Honey Smacks" Cereal. Does anybody remember
that? Well, back in the 80's they were forced to change the name
because it didn't contain any Honey. They appealed claiming it was the
name of the product and not an indication of an ingrediant used. They
lost. The name of the product was then changed to "Sugar Smacks",
something the company later claimed hurt their profit since parents are
far less apt to purchase a serial that has "Sugar" in it's title,
especialy during a time when Cereal companies were being criticisized
for using too much sugar in the first place. Anyway, the reason they
lost their appeal was that they were found to be commiting intentional
fraud by deliberately using "Honey" in the name. (The manner in which
they complained afterwards tends to suggest they were indeed guilty of
such.) Similiar problems followed for all kinds of cereals after this.
"Apple Jacks" was forced to admit that it contained no actual apples
and was also were made to put "artificialy flavored" on the front of
the box. Same thing happened to "Cookie Crisp". They had to admit that
it didn't contain chocolate, nor technicly was a "cookie" and also had
to include "Artificialy Flavored" on the front box as well. By using
terms like "Artificialy Flavored" on the front of the box, many cereals
were allowed to ultimately keep their prior names. I haven't eaten
"Honey Smacks/Sugar Smacks" in years but I've heard that they are once
again using the name Honey Smack so therefore they have either included
Honey as an ingrediant or have used "Artificial Flavored". I'll have
to check on that.
Jeeze, talking about this stuff makes me feel old.
Hey got something for everyone here:
How to know if you are old:
If you can remember when Hostess Ding Dongs were sold wrapped in
aluminum foil, then I hate to break it to you, but you are definately
old.
Need a second opinion? If you remember when Disney's "The Little
Mermaid" was released, then you are, yet again, old. (17 years ago,
BTW)
If you can remember when a pack of premium ciggerettes cost under a
buck fifty, then rest assured you are indeed old.
If you can remember a gallon of gas costing under a dollar, then yes,
it's time to put the final touches on the will. (If you remember a
gallon of gas costing .25 cents, then you best gets right with God and
fast!)
-Jason
catherine yronwode
[snip]
> > [...] i am glad to see the matter
> > dicussed, because i think that if people were better informed about
> > these repressive laws, they would understand that those of us who
> > provide spiritual services and goods are often obliged to resort to
> > standard disclaimers in order to avoid even further incursions against
> > our rights of free speech.
> The laws are there to protect the vulnerable, gullible or intellectually
> weak from frauds and scams. If you sell products which cannot be proved to
> work as described or suggested then you should be subject to constraint.
The laws have nothing to do with "products which cannot be proved to
work as described or suggested." More people get ripped off per capita
by bogus plumbers and roofing contracters than by fortune tellers or
card readers -- and for more money each year -- yet in no region of the
USA is plumbing or roofing forbidden by law or regulated by
"entertainment only" laws or forbidden of practice except by people who
agree to be fingerprinted.
cat yronwode
catherine yronwode
>
> Archangel wrote:
> > The laws are there to protect the vulnerable, gullible or intellectually
> > weak from frauds and scams. If you sell products which cannot be proved
> > to work as described or suggested then you should be subject to
> > constraint.
>
> so we should outlaw the roman mass?
I have a hunch that Archangel would like that just fine. :-)
Archangel is a disrespectful agenda-driven skeptic posing as a "seeker"
in alt.magick whose posts generally slag spirituality and magic and the
practitioners thereof. In short, he's just your average anonymous troll.
cat yronwode
catherine yronwode
>
> While it is regrettable that some so called 'fortune tellers' use the
> tools of the art to scam people it is necessary to point out that while
> lawyers, doctors, plumbers, scientists and other professionals do the
> same thing, there is no rush to pass laws or ordinances preventing those
> professionals from practising their craft, individuals may be de bared
> or forbidden to practise but no attempt is made to eliminate the
> professions as a whole.
>
> scaming people out of their money or property; putting all 'fortune
> tellers' in the same categories as thieves is an unfortunate hold over
> from the days when it was possible to pass laws based on religion.
>
> Every few years laws are attempted to be formulated banning animal
> sacrifice by pagan or voodoo groups, and always fails when Rabbis insist
> on an exception being made for them.
> ---
> JL
Thanks for stating that so clearly. As you say, the outlawing of
fortunetelling, card reading, or contacting the dead is motivated by a
desire to protect the gullible against fraud, it is simple one of many
examples of how the members of a majority religio-magical group pass
laws that restrict memebers of another group from practicing their
beliefs.
And those who think that they are immune to such political shenanigans
because they are rationists, skeptics, or members of a currently
majority religious group in a poweful "modern" nation have only to look
at the current headlines pitting the rights of free speech against
repression in the matter of the recent Danish newspaper caraicatures of
Mohammed.
It is obvious that stuggles to repress free speech and religio-magical
or spiritual practes are merely a thin veneer overlaying crude and basic
struggles for religious domination in a given political arena.
cat yronwode
Archangel
"LuckyH." <Lucky...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1139001461.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Archangel wrote:
>
>> They are not repressive laws; your definition of repressive laws appears
>> to
>> be laws which prevent you from doing what you want to do.
>>
>> The laws are there to protect the vulnerable, gullible or intellectually
>> weak from frauds and scams. If you sell products which cannot be proved
>> to
>> work as described or suggested then you should be subject to constraint.
>>
>> A
>
> That's a weird tone coming from somebody posting to "magical" NG's.
> Not only is it
> weird, but also incorrect. You only have to restrain from using
> specific language. For example:
>
> "Our Hawthorne Berry formula cures Diabetes." - This statement can get
> you in trouble.
>
> "Our Hawthorne Berry formula assists the body's natural production of
> insulin"
> -This statement is quite safe. It makes no outright claims other than
> "assisting" which can be proved in a court of law, even if only via
> certain vitamens and minerals found in Hawethorne Berries, as well as
> other sources, which are needed for the body to produce insulin in the
> first place.
Only a safe statement if it can be clinically proved to assist.
> (Note, I have no clue as to the actual properties of Hawthorne Berries
> and have only used them in this example.)
Accepted.
> Also, there is no law protecting the "vulnerable, gullible, or
> intellectualy weak", as you put it. Have you noticed how many
> supplements, lotions, pills, liquids, creams, sprays, tonics, and other
> associated mediums for a wide range of problems that either cannot be
> resolved or in which the person is looking for a quick fix. (Ex- Hair
> Loss, Impotence, Obesity, Anti-Aging, Anti-Wrinkle, Mood Elevator,
> Energy Booster, et cetera, et cetera...)
Actually I agree. I should have said the laws are *intended* to protect...
you made a reasonable point.
> "Spiritual Products" are also sold. Yes, those who have no idea about
> Hoodoo or any magic tradition may get upset when said product doesn't
> work. However, the majority of individuals who purchase said goods
> fully understand and are completely aware that the products are in no
> way guarenteed to work. It is simply understood that any outcomes
> depend on the knowledge and skill of the practioner, as well as the
> grace and blessing of "God/Gods/The Universe/Fate/etc...". The fact
> that companies such as LuckyMojo use phrases like "Sold as Curio Only"
> in no way can be taken to imply that Cat Yronwode, and other shop
> owners, are purposefuly conning and defrauding customers. Instead,
> most people correctly interpret such action to mean "We instinctively
> know that none of these products are guarenteed anyway, but to prevent
> any subsequent legal repurcussions, we are incorporating these phrases
> onto our product line."
I dont agree. If you sell a 'love spell' a reasonable person would assume
that it will be successful. Being disingenuous about it by stating that it
is a curio will only create the impresion in the prospective customer that
the statement is only made to *strictly* comply with the law and would be
ignored on that basis.
thus the law is complied with and the fraudulent claim still exists... no
law is perfect.
A
Archangel
Can you prove it doesnt work?
A
Archangel
"Quimbisero" <quim...@inquiceweb.com> wrote in message
news:1139019740.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
quite right.
A
Archangel
> >There are plenty of laws intended to do precisely that, protect those
>>in society who are otherwise less able to defend themselves, and by
>>extention to protect everyone from unscrupulous cons.
>
> Then name one.
In the UK there are many laws coming under the broad heading of 'Trades
Description legislation. So you lose the argument without really putting up
a fight. Which is good really because the statement is clearly correct and
arguing otherwise is just plain silly.
A
Archangel
Yes indeed. Fine print. The last refuge of the fraud and charlatan. A fine
example of a legal disclaimer being applied at the same time as the
deception is clearly intended.
Well said.
A
Archangel
and the fact that plumbers are also dishonest clearly exempts you for
responsibility when suggesting that your 'charms and spells' actually work?
I think not.
A
Archangel
you are wrong on all counts but your defensive reply clearly illustrates
that you resent being called a fraud however much evidence there is of that
fact. Let me show you your error...
> I have a hunch that Archangel would like that just fine. :-)
Wrong. I happen to think the Catholic Mass, properly done, is a potent piece
of ritual.
> Archangel is a disrespectful
He is disrespectful of fraud. Does this mean he is disrespectful of you? It
appears you think so.
> agenda-driven skeptic
He has no agenda to peddle (unlike you who have a retail interest in
perpetuating deception). And he is not a skeptic - he has been practicing
Magic successfully (probably) since the time you were climbing trees in your
back yard.
> posing as a "seeker"
he is not a seeker, he has already found.
> in alt.magick whose posts generally slag spirituality and magic and the
> practitioners thereof.
He is almost the sole voice for High Magic in this forum. What he does slag
is people who prey on the gullible by selling spells and 'curios' which they
pretend have some magical effect.
> In short, he's just your average anonymous troll.
Average? Perhaps. Anonymous? Certainly. Troll? If you mean for unmasking you
as a fraud and charlatan then guilty as charged.
You give occultism a bad name lady.
A
Archangel
well done cat. You make a defence of frauds and charlatans almost
respectable when you talk about Mohammad and free speech. Almost but not
quite.
A
Joseph Littleshoes
About 10 years ago one of the BRitish Lords, a Duke or something, had a
hugh number of parking tickets and when he was stopped (parliament was
not sitting) and arrested he demanded to have his case decided by a
trial of arms, he had the legal right to fight a representative of the
Queen and if he won the charges would be dropped.
Needless to say this challenge was enough to get him out of his tickets
and the law removed from the books, peers may no longer demand a
'challenge of arms' though they can be hung with a silken cord rather
than the more common hemp rope, should they be sentenced to death.
---
JL
Joseph Littleshoes
Something similar with the American mouth wash "Listeren" it used to be
advertised as being abel to prevent the common cold, they were forced to
stop selling it with this claim.
---
JL
Joseph Littleshoes
> "catherine yronwode" <c...@luckymojo.com> wrote in message
> news:43E435DB...@luckymojo.com...
>
>>Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>>
>>>Archangel wrote:
>>
>>>>The laws are there to protect the vulnerable, gullible or
>>>>intellectually
>>>>weak from frauds and scams. If you sell products which cannot be proved
>>>>to work as described or suggested then you should be subject to
>>>>constraint.
>>>
>>>so we should outlaw the roman mass?
>>
>>I have a hunch that Archangel would like that just fine. :-)
>>
>>Archangel is a disrespectful agenda-driven skeptic posing as a "seeker"
>>in alt.magick whose posts generally slag spirituality and magic and the
>>practitioners thereof. In short, he's just your average anonymous troll.
>>
>>cat yronwode
>
>
> you are wrong on all counts but your defensive reply clearly illustrates
> that you resent being called a fraud however much evidence there is of that
> fact. Let me show you your error...
>
>
>>I have a hunch that Archangel would like that just fine. :-)
>
>
> Wrong. I happen to think the Catholic Mass, properly done, is a potent piece
> of ritual.
>
Prove that it works and that a piece of bread and a glass of wine
'transubstantiate' into the body and blood of a 'god'.
---
JL
Joseph Littleshoes
> Archangel wrote:
>
>> "catherine yronwode" wrote:
>>> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> so we should outlaw the roman mass?
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a hunch that Archangel would like that just fine. :-)
>>
>> Wrong. I happen to think the Catholic Mass, properly done, is a potent
>> piece of ritual.
>>
> Prove that it works and that a piece of bread and a glass of wine
> 'transubstantiate' into the body and blood of a 'god'.
> ---
> JL
And if the Roman Mass is a "potent piece of ritual" why isn't any other
ritual done "properly" with any other objects or ingredients equally a
"potent piece of ritual"?
Yo argue otherwise is to demonstrate either ignorance or hubris, probly
both.
Its just the old "my god is better than your god" routine. That
particular fraud is hugely successfully both economically and politically.
---
JL
>
>>
Archangel
> Archangel wrote:
>
>> "catherine yronwode" <c...@luckymojo.com> wrote in message
>> news:43E435DB...@luckymojo.com...
>>
>>>Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>>>
>>>>Archangel wrote:
>>>
>>>>>The laws are there to protect the vulnerable, gullible or
>>>>>intellectually
>>>>>weak from frauds and scams. If you sell products which cannot be proved
>>>>>to work as described or suggested then you should be subject to
>>>>>constraint.
>>>>
>>>>so we should outlaw the roman mass?
>>>
>>>I have a hunch that Archangel would like that just fine. :-)
>>>
>>>Archangel is a disrespectful agenda-driven skeptic posing as a "seeker"
>>>in alt.magick whose posts generally slag spirituality and magic and the
>>>practitioners thereof. In short, he's just your average anonymous troll.
>>>
>>>cat yronwode
>>
>>
>> you are wrong on all counts but your defensive reply clearly illustrates
>> that you resent being called a fraud however much evidence there is of
>> that fact. Let me show you your error...
>>
>>
>>>I have a hunch that Archangel would like that just fine. :-)
>>
>>
>> Wrong. I happen to think the Catholic Mass, properly done, is a potent
>> piece of ritual.
>>
> Prove that it works and that a piece of bread and a glass of wine
> 'transubstantiate' into the body and blood of a 'god'.
Transubstantiation is a symbolic process. At least, it is so for all but the
most superstitious and stupid who were the very target of that doctrine when
promulgated. And no, I cannot prove that the symbolic transubstantiation
happens. This is a faith stance and does not affect the effectiveness or
otherwise of RC Mass.
A
Archangel
> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>
>> Archangel wrote:
>>
>>> "catherine yronwode" wrote:
>>>> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> so we should outlaw the roman mass?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a hunch that Archangel would like that just fine. :-)
>
>>>
>>> Wrong. I happen to think the Catholic Mass, properly done, is a potent
>>> piece of ritual.
>>>
>> Prove that it works and that a piece of bread and a glass of wine
>> 'transubstantiate' into the body and blood of a 'god'.
>> ---
>> JL
>
> And if the Roman Mass is a "potent piece of ritual" why isn't any other
> ritual done "properly" with any other objects or ingredients equally a
> "potent piece of ritual"?
It would be
Except that it needs to be done properly and with appropriate equipment
(necessary for the non-adeptus).
Remember that you have to have the correct equipment and the correct
procedure for most things, including making a telephone call. To do whatever
you feel like or making up your own procedure and expecting a good
connection might be a disappointing experience. This is the nature of the
world. You have to know what works and what does not work.
> Its just the old "my god is better than your god" routine. That
> particular fraud is hugely successfully both economically and politically.
Not at all, you can drive to the shops in your choice of motor cars, but you
have to know how to drive and you have to know which way to go.
A
Joseph Littleshoes
> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>
>>While it is regrettable that some so called 'fortune tellers' use the
>>tools of the art to scam people it is necessary to point out that while
>>lawyers, doctors, plumbers, scientists and other professionals do the
>>same thing, there is no rush to pass laws or ordinances preventing those
>>professionals from practising their craft, individuals may be de bared
>>or forbidden to practise but no attempt is made to eliminate the
>>professions as a whole.
>>
>>Thieves exist and there are laws against stealing or embezzling or
>>scaming people out of their money or property; putting all 'fortune
>>tellers' in the same categories as thieves is an unfortunate hold over
>>from the days when it was possible to pass laws based on religion.
>>
>>Every few years laws are attempted to be formulated banning animal
>>sacrifice by pagan or voodoo groups, and always fails when Rabbis insist
>>on an exception being made for them.
>>---
>>JL
>
>
> Thanks for stating that so clearly. As you say, the outlawing of
> fortunetelling, card reading, or contacting the dead is motivated by a
> desire to protect the gullible against fraud, it is simple one of many
> examples of how the members of a majority religio-magical group pass
> laws that restrict memebers of another group from practicing their
> beliefs.
And while 'outlawing' practices by other groups, the majority group then
turn around and do the same thing they have outlawed or otherwise
attempted to prevent others from doing.
From "prophecy' instead of 'fortune telling' to blessings and spiritual
healing, 'laying on of hands' & speaking in tongues & blood of the lamb
& born again & etc. proscribed when practised by others than the
majority group. Such hypocrisy is enough to sometimes make me want to
embrace atheism.
---
JL
LuckyH.
Archangel wrote:
> well done cat. You make a defence of frauds and charlatans almost
> respectable when you talk about Mohammad and free speech. Almost but not
> quite.
>
> A
Look,
I don't know why you have some vendetta against Cat, and I certainly
don't understand why Eoghan has backed you up, especialy since he is an
associate of Cat's, but you are plain wrong on so many levels.
-Jason
Archangel
well your obvious liking for Cat may well be obscuring the obvious facts of
the matter from you. As to having a vendetta against her, I have no such
thing. She is just an eccentric lady with some knowledge but little
understanding. On its own no problem, but when she challenges people that
know whereof they speak and decides toinsult them, then it should come as no
surprise when they unmask them.
People who make fraudulent claims for financial benefit should not criticise
people that dont.
A
Quimbisero
This is exactly the kind of road flowers that made me tire of usenet
before. I really see the noise level vs useful material ratio being too
high for the supposed value. There are just so many better things to do
then to put up with abuse from real teenagers and teenagers pushing
forty. Most of them can't string a reasoned argument together to save
their lives.
Eoghan
LuckyH.
I'm not sure if any of your comments were directed at me, as I am 29
years old. I find your "stepping to the side with judgement", very
typical of the kind of attitude you are known for. I do think you
should at least clarify your stance to Cat on this issue and not
respond with judgement, nor the placement of blame towards me, or the
person whose opinions and statements you agree with. Your comments
above directly imply that you have been called on just such. You have
also replied with a typical "Snooty Responce" as if you were verbaly
taking Cat aside in an "Were better than them" attitude. Please don't
insult our intelligence.
Cat, I'm going to be the first to say this in public, but your
association with Eoghan has hurt your reputation just as much as it has
helped it.
-Jason
LuckyH.
Archangel wrote:
> well your obvious liking for Cat may well be obscuring the obvious facts of
> the matter from you. As to having a vendetta against her, I have no such
> thing. She is just an eccentric lady with some knowledge but little
> understanding. On its own no problem, but when she challenges people that
> know whereof they speak and decides toinsult them, then it should come as no
> surprise when they unmask them.
In all actuality, I am not convinced you know "where of you speak".
You seem to be ingorant of the fact that her products are geared to a
specific group of people, those that practice Hoodoo and magic in
general and who are quite aware of the fact that none of said products
guarentee anything. Cat has chosen to imploy phrases such as "Sold as
Curio Only" not because it sums up her belief in the effectiveness, or
lack thereof, of such products, but to protect her from nutty people
such as yourself. You are also forgetting one important detail, the
fact that most of Cat's products have very normal uses. Sachet Powders
and oils are used to scent both the body and air in the home. If you
have actualy taken the time to read Cat's site you realzie that she
emphasizes the dual nature of these items.
>
> People who make fraudulent claims for financial benefit should not criticise
> people that dont.
>
> A
You are acting like she is going town to town selling "Snake Oil". She
is not!. If all Spiritual Supply companies were forced out of
business, then people will simply revert
back to making these products themselves. There is a true demand for
these items. LuckyMojo customers chose to visit her store, either in
person or via online. LuckyMojo
customers have access to information both online, and on the products
themselves that
said items are produced using natural roots, herbs, minerals, and other
items traditional and specificly associated with given conditions.
Cutsomers are informed that no results are guarenteed from using these
products and that everything is sold as curio only. How is that you
still claim she is defrauding people? It is apparant to most people
that her company does not violate any given law on such, so therefore I
would most definately question your motivation for leveling such
accusations. Are you motivated by jealousy of Cat's success? Do you
have plans of forming your own company and want to be rid of the
competition beforehand? Have the two of you exchanged heated words in
the past? Nobody can say for sure just what is causing you to fake
accusations against Cat Yronwode and LuckyMojo, but the fact is that
you are committing Slander and Libel.
-Jason
Tom
"catherine yronwode" <c...@luckymojo.com> wrote in message
news:43E435DB...@luckymojo.com...
> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>
> in alt.magick whose posts generally slag spirituality and magic and the
> practitioners thereof. In short, he's just your average anonymous troll.
It seems advisable to make a distinction between modern skepticism as a
philosophy and the mere vocal disbelief in what does not conform to one's
present worldview. If skepticism is no more than refusal to accept what one
does not already believe, then everyone, yourself, included is a "skeptic".
Personally, I have a more discriminating view of skepticism than that.
Tom
"Archangel" <Arch...@nulldev.com> wrote in message
news:7O%Ef.497229$gj3.1...@fe02.news.easynews.com...
>
> Transubstantiation is a symbolic process.
Not according to the Catholics. It is not a "symbolic" transformation to
them, but a real one. The essential substance of the bread and wine, while
retaining all their outward appearance as bread and wine, have really, not
merely symbolically, become the Body and Blood of Christ.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm
> At least, it is so for all but the most superstitious and stupid who were
> the very target of that doctrine when promulgated.
Which would, in your view, include all of Roman Catholicism.
Joseph Littleshoes
Given 'archangels' admitted acceptance of the Roman Mass as an
'effective rituals' i wonder how he feels about catholic stores selling
religious supplies such as rosary beads, plastic Jesus' and other, lots
of other religious chatchkas. sold gold mass vessels, candles, incense,
incantations & etc.
---
JL
Quimbisero
>
> I don't know why you have some vendetta against Cat, and I certainly
> don't understand why Eoghan has backed you up, especialy since he is an
> associate of Cat's, but you are plain wrong on so many levels.
>
> -Jason
I most certainly have NOT backed up "A" (which initial would appear be
followed naturally by two serpent sounding letters) I simply explained
the "logic" behind various laws. That they get applied to products
which they should not be and not to some they should is a given. That
doesn't mean such laws are completely wrong headed or that all should
be completely wiped off the books. They certainly should be seriously
overhawled. There are real frauds out there who's actions we should
have laws against. There are for instance people who sell questionable
materials which they claim have all sorts of health benefits which can
cause greater health problems than they solve. Merck and SKF, etc come
to mind. The real snake oil dealers these days are the big drug
companies.
The history of fortune telling laws are tied up with several other
threads of history and law. They are most directly the outgrowth of
"anti-witchcraft" laws in which context they inherit a long and sullied
history. They are also to a degree a confluence of those laws and the
machinations by which modern medical "science" took control of the
means of dispensing and creating health products - also a fairly sordid
and dishonest background.
While I don't know Cat's specific view on the topic of "curio-only"
marking, I suspect her view is somewhat mixed. We discussed such things
at one point a long time ago. I don't think we are very far apart,
actually. On the one hand it forces people to deny their beliefs in
favor of a legislated set of beliefs about reality, on the other hand
it also protects against libel and law suits. In such a litigious
society as ours has become, that's not all bad.
Eoghan
Tom
>
>
> You are acting like she is going town to town selling "Snake Oil". She
> is not!. If all Spiritual Supply companies were forced out of
> business, then people will simply revert
> back to making these products themselves. There is a true demand for
> these items. LuckyMojo customers chose to visit her store, either in
> person or via online. LuckyMojo
> customers have access to information both online, and on the products
> themselves that
> said items are produced using natural roots, herbs, minerals, and other
> items traditional and specificly associated with given conditions.
> Cutsomers are informed that no results are guarenteed from using these
> products and that everything is sold as curio only.
Hey, I see that Lucky Mojo got some free advertising lately.
It seems that some park workers came across a couple of cow tongues near a
playground in Mt. Tabor Park. There were eighteen pins piercing them and the
names of several undercover police officers and a judge embedded into them.
The police are pretty sure it was a hoodoo ritual connected to a Hispanic
man they currently have in custody. The news story lists Lucky Mojo as a
source for such rituals.
A Portland Police Bureau spokeman jokingly commented, "Maybe it will work
better than defense attorneys."
For entertainment purposes only.
Yep, you just can't beat a lively evening of ritual mutilation of animal
organs for good, wholesome spiritual entertainment. And near a playground,
too.
Apache
A people always turn more conservative and persecuting when they are at
war Jospeh. They get a 'not one of us' mentality. Hang in there, -
the war can't go on for ever and people will eventually loose that
attitude in peacetime. You gotta play the long game and show what good
friends you are to America now.... Use their symbols and archytypes
for yourself and your friends. You dig? I think Vietnam left people
with the idea that counter-culture = anti-war. Probably true - but it
does no harm to muddy the waters, and it doesn't sound as if they're
fighting fair.
How about a little pagan churchy display for the boys in Iraq? Cat and
Nagasiva have a few media contacts.... Don't flame me - I'm only
trying to help.
Apache.
jk
> You sound very enlightened... NOT!
Your need to maintain a public posture of indignation when
your powers are questioned is understandable, and certainly
de rigueur for hucksters. The integrity of the swindle depends
upon it, after all.
But if you are going to say things like this:
"Your "bad luck" may be more serious than you thought. This
is a deep-cleansing spell that removes any trace of curse,
evil or negative energy from you."
---or THIS:
"4,000 Year Old Asian "Forbidden" Love Spell GUARANTEED"
---you are going to encounter skeptical inquiry, especially
in quarters where such claims are well understood to be
the calling-card of charlatanry.
> 1. If you visited the site, you would know why the domain has
> the word "free" in it. I offer free love spells - buy 2 get a free
> spell.
Then they are not free. One has to purchase something from you
to get one.
> 2. I'm not a guy. In most countries, Katerina is not a guy's name.
It might be a guy's online angle.
> 3. You act surprised that some people ask for money for services
> rendered?
No, she was curious as to why you emphasize "free" when you
are 2/3 not free, or as that finally renders, 100% commercially
bound.
Research into the rewards of posturing indignant in the Posturing
Guild Hall might have saved you some disappointment of your
expectations.
> In your world, do lawyers, doctors and actors work for the
> simple gratification of serving you?
Well, doctors and lawyers can be, and often are, sued for
malpractice.
And while actors often should be sued for that, they get away
with it because people naturally have such low expectations
for what any particular actor is likely to deliver, especially when
he is playing a doctor or lawyer on tv.
> A good job deserves to be compensated.
A good job of what?
Grifting?
> You sound like you could use a little spiritual assistance.
That sounds so creepy coming from you.
> Perhaps a custom spell?
Or a delicious apple?
http://www.jigsawgallery.com/prodpics/C26559.jpg
Don't you have a mirror to assail? Or perhaps a wriggling
bag to receive from your vampiric master?
(jk)
************************************
Read jk's Tarot FAQ:
http://jktarot.com/faq.html
jktarot.com Site Map:
http://jktarot.com/sitemap.html
************************************
jk
> Asiya wrote to Katerina Someone :
> > A serious question now. At the bottom of your pages you have the
> > disclaimer: "Legal Stuff: Law requirement states that psychic readings
> > and spells are for entertainment purposes only;" What law requires
> > this?
> There are so many laws like this on the books in the United States---
Like what for example? And where?
Any law requiring a psychic or fortuneteller to admit to being a
fraud, which is precisely what such a disclaimer indicates when
the promoter is claiming the opposite of the disclaimer everywhere
else on his site, would be unconstitutional.
> that listing them would be quite a chore. Since i don't know
> where the original poster lives, i can't look up her local laws----
According to the site, the business address is:
KPS Services
11 Robert Toner Blvd., Suite 5-106
North Attleboro, MA 02763
Apparently, they do have a fortunetelling license provision, which
license is supposed to be obtained from these people:
http://north-attleboro.ma.us/selectmen/default.htm
I would be surprised to hear they have issued very many or
any of those licenses.
No indication there is any exception to the license provision, but
I was not able to find a detailed account of their city laws.
Additionally, there is a general question about whether or not
a business is regulated by the laws of the state in which the
owner resides, or the state in which his servers reside. Also,
is the delivery of a service into the hands of a client a
determinant in which locale the law properly applies?
It may be that you need to comply with the laws of every place
on earth in which you sell a product or a service, and in every
place in between where the data you are selling travels.
In that event, merely claiming you are doing something for
"entertainment purposes" may not suffice. Indeed, nothing
may suffice since you would almost certainly be beyond
somebody's pale somewhere.
You could just relax and not worry about it, and also not
fool yourself into thinking that "for entertainment purposes
only" really means anything or that it provides you some
special protection.
> , but here, courtesy of google, are three pointers toward the sort
> of information you are seeking:
>
> ------
>
> The North Carolina anti-divination law was only repealed in 2004:
>
> http://members.aol.com/oldenwilde/gen_info/blk_rib/nclaw.html
A clearly unconstitutional provision that would have fallen much
earlier if anybody had taken it into the court system to fight it.
One finds that in places, in the US anyway, where these laws exist,
they are generally not enforced, and are considered anachronisms
by authorities. Where they are enforced, they are always declared
unconstitutional when they are exposed to a judicial review.
> It is against the law to read cards for pay in Colbert County, Alabama:
>
> http://www.ador.state.al.us/licenses/sec104.html
>
> "It is unlawful for any person, for any fee or other valuable
> consideration, to engage in the practice of fortune telling,
> palmistry, mind reading, astrology, clairvoyance or any other
> practice involving the alleged foretelling of events or prophesying
> of the future, in Colbert County."
Again, unconstitutional.
> Note that this is a total ban on fortunetelling for payment of fees.
And is unconstitutional.
> But, getting down to the case of Katerina and her "entertainment"
> disclaimer, here is a typical law relaveant to that form of disclaimer:
> The Woodland, California Municipal anti-fortunetelln=ng law text is at
> http://www.ci.woodland.ca.us/cityhall/code/_DATA/CHAPTER15/>Sec__15_30__Fortunetelling_.html
This is similar to the San Francisco fortunetelling ordinance, which
I wrote about a couple of years ago:
http://jktarot.com/focusreport2.html
People are not required by the Woodland law to claim their
fortunetelling is for entertainment purposes only. They are given
the option to do this, and required to do it in a way that any judicial
review would likely reject as bizarrely burdensome to their
constitutional rights.
While establishing that " 'Fortunetelling' shall mean and include
telling of fortunes, forecasting of future events or furnishing any
information not otherwise obtainable by the ordinary process of
knowledge, by means of any occult or psychic power...etc.",
they allow that "The provisions of this section shall not apply
to any person engaged solely in the business of entertaining
the public by demonstrations of fortunetelling..."
But, the intent of this entertainment function is that it cannot
be for one client, and must be done in such a manner that it
avoids discussion of "the private concerns of an individual."
If one is selling readings or psychic services to individuals,
which do relate to his private concerns, the reader could not
be said to be merely entertaining the client and would not
be allowed the exception.
I am sure if this law were challenged, it would be tossed as
unconstitutional.
> These were just three examples out of thousands in this country.
You have not given any example of a law requiring anyone to
state his fortunetelling practice is "for entertainment purposes
only".
> Obviously, Katerina lives in an area where there
> are "entertainment" exemptions---
It isn't that obvious.
Thus the reason for asking.
> I'm surprised you didn't know this, Asiya --
Is there some relevant reason she should be acquainted with
the details of your confusion?
(jk)
************************************
Tarotica Discussion Group
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Tarotica
Apache
jk wrote:
*Apache looks across at Jk and narrows her eyes at him*
*She recalls a halloween encounter over a glass of green bubbling
liquid at the psi bar*
Naaa. Can't be.
Apache.
taro...@jktarot.com
> A people always turn more conservative and persecuting when they are at
> war Jospeh. They get a 'not one of us' mentality. Hang in there, -
> the war can't go on for ever---
Have you ever heard of the Hundred Years War?
Not forever necessarily, but for many many lifetimes a war can
certainly go on and can destroy everything and everyone
you ever cared about.
The latest US war planning expects the insanity (now officially
referred to as "The Long War") to last at least another 20 years.
For many people, that will effectively be forever.
(jk)
************************************
The Guillotine:
http://mortduroi.blogspot.com/
Tarotica:
http://tarotica.blogspot.com/
************************************
Archangel
accounts.
A
Archangel
>
> Archangel wrote:
>> well your obvious liking for Cat may well be obscuring the obvious facts
>> of
>> the matter from you. As to having a vendetta against her, I have no such
>> thing. She is just an eccentric lady with some knowledge but little
>> understanding. On its own no problem, but when she challenges people that
>> know whereof they speak and decides toinsult them, then it should come as
>> no
>> surprise when they unmask them.
>
> In all actuality, I am not convinced you know "where of you speak".
That is OK. You dont need to be convinced. I can live without you being
convinced.
> You seem to be ingorant of the fact that her products are geared to a
> specific group of people, those that practice Hoodoo and magic in
> general and who are quite aware of the fact that none of said products
> guarentee anything.
Yep, I understand this. She sells to a niche market. The stupid and
gullible.
> Cat has chosen to imploy phrases such as "Sold as
> Curio Only" not because it sums up her belief in the effectiveness, or
> lack thereof, of such products, but to protect her from nutty people
> such as yourself.
Actually no, she hasnt 'chosen' to do this at all, she is obliged to. And
she doesnt do this to protect herself from nutty people like me, she does it
to protect herself from nutty people like the Government. The Government in
general isnt fond of people who engage in fraudulent descriptions of good s
they sell.
> You are also forgetting one important detail, the
> fact that most of Cat's products have very normal uses. Sachet Powders
> and oils are used to scent both the body and air in the home. If you
> have actualy taken the time to read Cat's site you realzie that she
> emphasizes the dual nature of these items.
Sure. I was only referring to the 'spells' and other stuff that she claims
have magical effects. This may also include powders and oils of course. What
you are doing is dishonest. You seek to attach integrity to a business that
sells lots of products and services by pointing out that *one* of them may
be honest. This is the sort of thing that Tom does al the time.
>> People who make fraudulent claims for financial benefit should not
>> criticise
>> people that dont.
>>
>> A
>
> You are acting like she is going town to town selling "Snake Oil". She
> is not!.
Yes she is. She sells 'Spell Kits, 'love spells' and the like. If this isnt
snake oil then I never hope to see a real con job.
> If all Spiritual Supply companies were forced out of
> business, then people will simply revert
> back to making these products themselves.
Which is Magically more effective anyway. Seems like a good idea.
> There is a true demand for these items.
Yes there is. The stupid and gullible.
> LuckyMojo customers chose to visit her store, either in
> person or via online. LuckyMojo
> customers have access to information both online, and on the products
> themselves that
> said items are produced using natural roots, herbs, minerals, and other
> items traditional and specificly associated with given conditions.
> Cutsomers are informed that no results are guarenteed from using these
> products and that everything is sold as curio only.
Which is a statement flaty contradicted by her product descriptions and is
only there to protect her from the false pretences legislation. Why would
Cat sell a 'spell kit' and why would anybody buy one unless they think it
might actually work? She preys on the feeble-minded and gullible.
> How is that you
> still claim she is defrauding people?
Tsk. Read her website.
> It is apparant to most people
> that her company does not violate any given law on such, so therefore I
> would most definately question your motivation for leveling such
> accusations.
Yo0u are wrong. The people who choose to shop there also choose to believe
her. Like I said, the stupid and gullible. There are lots of shops selling
honest products to the occult community without selling under false
pretences. Others can do it, Cat chooses not to do it.
> Are you motivated by jealousy of Cat's success? Do you
> have plans of forming your own company and want to be rid of the
> competition beforehand?
Not really, I expect I have more money than Cat is ever likely to see. At
all. So I am not jealous, no. I resent charlatans, they give occultism a bad
name.
> Have the two of you exchanged heated words in
> the past?
Nope. not until she chose to slag me off for making a sensible and reasoned
comment about shamanism and sort of silly 'recipe' magic that she purveys.
> Nobody can say for sure just what is causing you to fake
> accusations against Cat Yronwode and LuckyMojo, but the fact is that
> you are committing Slander and Libel.
Only if they are untrue Jason, which they are plainly not. If she feels I am
being slanderous or libellous then there are remedies available to her in
law. But she wont take them. She wont want the pubilicity for her false
tretences I dont imagine.
A
btw. Lucky Mojo / Lucky Hoodoo. Are you sure you are being objective?
Archangel
He feels fine about that - as long as they arent described in such a way as
would suggest they have Magical power. That is the point JL, not your hatred
of Christianity.
A
Archangel
"Tom" <askper...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2M6dnQ6WNNG...@comcast.com...
About the only sensible thing you have said recently. And *again* you are
climbing aboard my bandwagon to say it. Well done.
A
Archangel
No it would not. You are drawing a baseless generalisation. It would however
include *most* of the Roman Catholics I have ever met, so you are partly
right.
A
Vanirhawk
How about if you can remember watching Dobie Gillis and thinking that you'd
like to be a beatnick like Maynard G. Cleff?
Or how about watching Elvis debut on the Ed Sullivan Show and hearing your
mother grumble about the way he "twitched around"?
Or how about blue suade shoes and poodle skirts?
Now that's old!
Vanirhawk
(an old and gray boomer)
>
> How to know if you are old:
>
> If you can remember when Hostess Ding Dongs were sold wrapped in
> aluminum foil, then I hate to break it to you, but you are definately
> old.
>
> Need a second opinion? If you remember when Disney's "The Little
> Mermaid" was released, then you are, yet again, old. (17 years ago,
> BTW)
>
> If you can remember when a pack of premium ciggerettes cost under a
> buck fifty, then rest assured you are indeed old.
>
> If you can remember a gallon of gas costing under a dollar, then yes,
> it's time to put the final touches on the will. (If you remember a
> gallon of gas costing .25 cents, then you best gets right with God and
> fast!)
>
> -Jason
>
Tom
>
> "Tom" <askper...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:6ridnfU81p59anne...@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Archangel" <Arch...@nulldev.com> wrote in message
>> news:7O%Ef.497229$gj3.1...@fe02.news.easynews.com...
>>>
>>> Transubstantiation is a symbolic process.
>>
>> Not according to the Catholics. It is not a "symbolic" transformation to
>> them, but a real one. The essential substance of the bread and wine,
>> while retaining all their outward appearance as bread and wine, have
>> really, not merely symbolically, become the Body and Blood of Christ.
>>
>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm
>>
>>> At least, it is so for all but the most superstitious and stupid who
>>> were the very target of that doctrine when promulgated.
>>
>> Which would, in your view, include all of Roman Catholicism.
>
>
> No it would not.
Well, there goes the old "bandwagon", eh?
> You are drawing a baseless generalisation.
And you believe that you are not?
> It would however include *most* of the Roman Catholics I have ever met, so
> you are partly right.
I knew I would be.
Joseph Littleshoes
Two peas in a pod aint we archie?
Joseph Littleshoes
Oh! Puleeeze! give me a break! this "conservative" element has been at
work recently & for a long time, the present 'war' is a symptom not a cause.
Did you read my Reagan comments early on in this thread in "Beware
Anecdote"?
---
JL
Tom
"Vanirhawk" <vani...@pivot.net> wrote in message
news:XPWdnYUVau6qEXje...@taconic.net...
> "The Little Mermaid"? My grandchildren were watching that.
>
> How about if you can remember watching Dobie Gillis and thinking that
> you'd like to be a beatnick like Maynard G. Cleff?
Krebs. Maynard G. Krebs.
Bob Denver passed away last September, but will be rerun forever as
"Gilligan". Maynard, that shiftless beatnik, probably won't.
> Or how about watching Elvis debut on the Ed Sullivan Show and hearing your
> mother grumble about the way he "twitched around"?
Or when Ringo missed his cue on the lip-synch performance and rattled his
tamborine way late during the Beatles' second appearance with Ed?
> Or how about blue suade shoes and poodle skirts?
Or Lenny Bruce getting arrested for saying the word "cocksucker" on stage?
In San Francisco, of all places?
Archangel
are we? I dont see any overwhelming evidence of that but perhaps we are.
A
Archangel
>
> "Archangel" <Arch...@nulldev.com> wrote in message
> news:LTfFf.4061$Px2....@fe05.news.easynews.com...
>>
>> "Tom" <askper...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:6ridnfU81p59anne...@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Archangel" <Arch...@nulldev.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7O%Ef.497229$gj3.1...@fe02.news.easynews.com...
>>>>
>>>> Transubstantiation is a symbolic process.
>>>
>>> Not according to the Catholics. It is not a "symbolic" transformation
>>> to them, but a real one. The essential substance of the bread and wine,
>>> while retaining all their outward appearance as bread and wine, have
>>> really, not merely symbolically, become the Body and Blood of Christ.
>>>
>>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm
>>>
>>>> At least, it is so for all but the most superstitious and stupid who
>>>> were the very target of that doctrine when promulgated.
>>>
>>> Which would, in your view, include all of Roman Catholicism.
>>
>>
>> No it would not.
>
> Well, there goes the old "bandwagon", eh?
not at all. You climb on when it suits you and you think people wont notice.
>> You are drawing a baseless generalisation.
>
> And you believe that you are not?
Correct, I am not.
>
>> It would however include *most* of the Roman Catholics I have ever met,
>> so you are partly right.
>
> I knew I would be.
Indeed so. If you try a little harder you can be more than partly right but
you have to be more honest and knowledgeable first. Therein lies the rub.
A
quim...@inquiceweb.com
Eoghan
LuckyH.
Quimbisero wrote:
> > Look,
> >
> > I don't know why you have some vendetta against Cat, and I certainly
> > don't understand why Eoghan has backed you up, especialy since he is an
> > associate of Cat's, but you are plain wrong on so many levels.
> >
> > -Jason
>
> I most certainly have NOT backed up "A" (which initial would appear be
> followed naturally by two serpent sounding letters) I simply explained
> the "logic" behind various laws. That they get applied to products
> which they should not be and not to some they should is a given.
(Snipped for space)
Thank You for clarifying your position.
-Jason
LuckyH.
>It seems that some park workers came across a couple of cow tongues near a
>playground in Mt. Tabor Park. There were eighteen pins piercing them and the
>names of several undercover police officers and a judge embedded into them.
>The police are pretty sure it was a hoodoo ritual connected to a Hispanic
>man they currently have in custody. The news story lists Lucky Mojo as a
>source for such rituals.
>A Portland Police Bureau spokeman jokingly commented, "Maybe it will work
>better than defense attorneys."
>For entertainment purposes only.
>Yep, you just can't beat a lively evening of ritual mutilation of animal
>organs for good, wholesome spiritual entertainment. And near a playground,
>too.
FYI, but using a cow tongue in magic does not mean you take a butcher
knife out into the pasture. Cow tongues are puchased at your local
supermarket just like any cut of beef.
Also,
My screenname is connected to a woman who attempted to murder her
family. She was a practicing "Witch" and apparantly had asked me for
spells in the past. I don't remember her at all but I can assure you
that I do not support murder! You wanna call the cops on me for giving
spells to people?
-Jason
LuckyH.
>they are generally not enforced, and are considered anachronisms
>by authorities. Where they are enforced, they are always declared
>unconstitutional when they are exposed to a judicial review.
Exactly. As I stated before, being arrested on these charges might be
financialy draining, but if fought, you will be vindicated.
Also keep in mind that a person only has to change the name they apply
to themselves to escape the law completely. For example, most people
in my area call themselves "Spiritual Counselors" who give "Spiritual
Readings". I have found the use of this so frequently that I feel
these terms are being used for a specific reason, to avoid prosecution
from calling themselves "psychics" and to specificly connect religion
to their practices.
-Jason
LuckyH.
>accounts.
>A
Most of the people who know Cat respect her for her work. People like
you come flying out of nowhere slinging accusations of fraud with no
proof to back up your allegations. Big Clue for you, Cat has publicly
stated several times that LuckyMojo only makes enough money to pay her
employees. She's not living large at all! Have you ever been to her
website? You might want to actualy go there and read. You will be
suprised by the information she has accumulated. You should also know
that it can be quite expensive to maintain a website such as hers. Yet
she does this anyway.
What I want to know is why does a person who believes all mystical,
magical, occult shops to be Cons, Scams, and Frauds post to "Magical"
NG's in the first place? Are you lost? Do you need someone to point
the way to alt.skeptic.anal.retentive?
-Jason
LuckyH.
I have no connection to Luckymojo other than being a customer and
internet aquaintance of the owner.
As a customer I can assure you that I have not been frauded by Cat
Yronwode, nor have I purchased goods with the belief that success and
the attainment of my desires was guarenteed. I bought them because I
use these spiritual products in my practices. In fact, I dare you to
bring someone forward who has proof that they were a past customer and
whom now feels that they were defrauded and scammed by Cay Yronwode.
Either do just that or shut the fuck up.
Now, Before I Bust Out The Label Of TROLL, Please state why someone of
your opinion frequents Magical NG's.
-Jason
LuckyH.
>Eoghan
Your comments came after "A" and I got into it.
Also, you don't seem to quote people.
-Jason
LuckyH.
>How about if you can remember watching Dobie Gillis and thinking that you'd
>like to be a beatnick like Maynard G. Cleff?
>Or how about watching Elvis debut on the Ed Sullivan Show and hearing your
>mother grumble about the way he "twitched around"?
>Or how about blue suade shoes and poodle skirts?
>Now that's old!
>Vanirhawk
>(an old and gray boomer)
O.k., I give up. I don't wanta play "Whose older than whom?" or "Race
ya to the grave!" ;)
-Jason