Yum install vs. something like Softpedia? [For Window$->Linux newbies.]
RodMcKay
newbie coming from Window$). I've done a lot of reading in last day
and a half but I'm still struggling with this.
Yum install, is that what it means to get software from the repository
for my particular distro (Fedora 11, in this case)?
If so, how would something like yum install gconf-editor
(http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/index.php?/archives/41-GUI-Thursday-Gconf-editor-GUI-configuration-tool.html)
differ from dl the gconf-editor files from Softpedia
(http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Utilities/Gconf-Editor-16323.shtml)
where I get a bunch of files from the 1.6 meg dl that I then assume I
must compile?
The reason I ask is, I'm afraid to go further at this point - I've
been made to understand that software is 'safer' from a repository.
Yet the Softpedia dl that I got and virus-scanned** comes to me as a
group of files which is what is desired since I then always can have
the files on hand when needed and can then just compile and deploy to
other systems. This is desirable because 1) don't have to keep using
up bandwidth from the repository for each dl, 2) can take to systems
without internet access.
I guess the shakiness lies in part in that I'm not familiar with how
Linux installs. In Window$, the only OS I'm somewhat familiar with, a
web install will install software directly onto our systems so is
similar in feel to what dl from the repository might be doing - not
the same thing at all, I'm sure, of course, but you don't end up with
an executable binary, the app is installed directly and you have
nothing if you have to reinstall it again in future since you don't
have an installable binary or source files to then make the executable
binary.
So although I've got the file dl from Softpedia, would like to know if
I get the same outcome by a yum install. If not, can one somehow
"extract" all the installed files to get the source/binary files to
then in future install somewhere else?
Thanks in advance for any clarification. This will help many other
Window$->Linux newbies, too. Thx. :oD
** - came up okay in my Window$ av - which is I'm told is what counts
since viruses aren't much of an issue in Linux.
J.O. Aho
> Okay, trying to grasp the repository thing in Linux (I'm a Linux
> newbie coming from Window$). I've done a lot of reading in last day
> and a half but I'm still struggling with this.
>
> Yum install, is that what it means to get software from the repository
> for my particular distro (Fedora 11, in this case)?
Yum is a tool that can install packages from one or more repositories, which
ones depends on the settings (there is a bunch of config files in your /etc
directory where you can add remove repositories to use).
> If so, how would something like yum install gconf-editor
> (http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/index.php?/archives/41-GUI-Thursday-Gconf-editor-GUI-configuration-tool.html)
> differ from dl the gconf-editor files from Softpedia
> (http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Utilities/Gconf-Editor-16323.shtml)
> where I get a bunch of files from the 1.6 meg dl that I then assume I
> must compile?
The one from Softpedia would either be uncompiled, compiled to a different
distribution or version or statically built to work on more distributions
(this generates far larger binaries) and of course the file could have a back
door. No dependency checks are made so packages needed to make it work will
not be automatically installed. If you get a source code, then you need to
have all the required dependency packages headers and a full development
environment installed.
Getting the file from your distributions repository, you know there won't be
intentional back doors, it will be working with your install and you will get
dependencies installed if missing.
> The reason I ask is, I'm afraid to go further at this point - I've
> been made to understand that software is 'safer' from a repository.
> Yet the Softpedia dl that I got and virus-scanned** comes to me as a
> group of files which is what is desired since I then always can have
> the files on hand when needed and can then just compile and deploy to
> other systems. This is desirable because 1) don't have to keep using
> up bandwidth from the repository for each dl, 2) can take to systems
> without internet access.
I think you will spend more bandwidth that way as you need to get all the
dependency source codes too and then you need to keep track of the packages
as those will not be tracked in the package system and you may get trouble to
install system packages as they think you don't have the dependency installed
and you can end up with two different version installed of a packages, the one
you compiled and the one drawn in by the system, which will and to you don't
know or sure which version will be used and they can break each other in a
real bad manner, making your system unstable.
When it comes to offline machines, you can still take the repository
downloaded package from an online machine, by storing it on a usb memory stick
to the offline machine, this gives you far less hassle than the compiling.
> So although I've got the file dl from Softpedia, would like to know if
> I get the same outcome by a yum install. If not, can one somehow
> "extract" all the installed files to get the source/binary files to
> then in future install somewhere else?
You have the RPMs temporarily stored on the machine, read the man page for yum
for more information.
--
//Aho
thunder
> The reason I ask is, I'm afraid to go further at this point - I've been
> made to understand that software is 'safer' from a repository. Yet the
> Softpedia dl that I got and virus-scanned** comes to me as a group of
> files which is what is desired since I then always can have the files on
> hand when needed and can then just compile and deploy to other systems.
> This is desirable because 1) don't have to keep using up bandwidth from
> the repository for each dl, 2) can take to systems without internet
> access.
I use Debian, so I'm not overly familiar with Yum, but from what I
understand, it is a similar package handler. I believe the "safety" they
are referring to, is not only virus-scanned, but more importantly,
dependency safe. As a Windows user, you have probably been bitten by
"dll hell". Well, Linux can have a similar bite, if you aren't careful.
Yum should automatically take care of any library dependencies that are
needed, and, if Yum is like apt, it will handle quite a bit of the
necessary configurations also.
As for downloading multiple times, you could set up a squid proxy, and
only download once.
RodMcKay
wrote:
>RodMcKay wrote:
>> Okay, trying to grasp the repository thing in Linux (I'm a Linux
>> newbie coming from Window$). I've done a lot of reading in last day
>> and a half but I'm still struggling with this.
>>
>> Yum install, is that what it means to get software from the repository
>> for my particular distro (Fedora 11, in this case)?
>
>Yum is a tool that can install packages from one or more repositories, which
>ones depends on the settings (there is a bunch of config files in your /etc
>directory where you can add remove repositories to use).
>
>
>> If so, how would something like yum install gconf-editor
>> (http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/index.php?/archives/41-GUI-Thursday-Gconf-editor-GUI-configuration-tool.html)
>> differ from dl the gconf-editor files from Softpedia
>> (http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Utilities/Gconf-Editor-16323.shtml)
>> where I get a bunch of files from the 1.6 meg dl that I then assume I
>> must compile?
>
>The one from Softpedia would either be uncompiled, compiled to a different
>distribution or version or statically built to work on more distributions
>(this generates far larger binaries) and of course the file could have a back
>door. No dependency checks are made so packages needed to make it work will
Ah, those Trojans ... which apparently are alive and well in Linux,
too, if you get them <g>. Okay. Got it.
>not be automatically installed. If you get a source code, then you need to
>have all the required dependency packages headers and a full development
>environment installed.
>
>Getting the file from your distributions repository, you know there won't be
>intentional back doors, it will be working with your install and you will get
>dependencies installed if missing.
>
>
>> The reason I ask is, I'm afraid to go further at this point - I've
>> been made to understand that software is 'safer' from a repository.
>> Yet the Softpedia dl that I got and virus-scanned** comes to me as a
>> group of files which is what is desired since I then always can have
>> the files on hand when needed and can then just compile and deploy to
>> other systems. This is desirable because 1) don't have to keep using
>> up bandwidth from the repository for each dl, 2) can take to systems
>> without internet access.
>
>I think you will spend more bandwidth that way as you need to get all the
>dependency source codes too and then you need to keep track of the packages
>as those will not be tracked in the package system and you may get trouble to
>install system packages as they think you don't have the dependency installed
>and you can end up with two different version installed of a packages, the one
>you compiled and the one drawn in by the system, which will and to you don't
>know or sure which version will be used and they can break each other in a
>real bad manner, making your system unstable.
Okay. So unlike when you dl a Window$ app which mostly comes with
everything you need (less some runtime files sometimes), downloading
from anywhere NOT in a Linux repository geared towards your distro
nets you something that will in all likelihood be incomplete. You'd
then have to hunt around for the dependencies, etc., yourself and then
you might not be successful and might end up with back door Trojans on
top of that. So dl'ing from a repository is the safest, one-stop shop
way to go.
Kewl.
>When it comes to offline machines, you can still take the repository
>downloaded package from an online machine, by storing it on a usb memory stick
> to the offline machine, this gives you far less hassle than the compiling.
<sigh> You know, this is one of the reasons why I'm switching to
Linux. You say to store on a stick and take there -- well, I may be
able to do just that which wouldn't happen if we were not talking
about Linux because there are no Win98SE drivers for mine. I gave her
my old stick when I found my current one on sale dirt cheap, rather
than giving the old one away. The old one was one of the last line of
sticks produced that still provided Win98SE drivers! But since this
later USB stick works here on my Linux distro it might also work just
fine over there! I get the feeling she won't be anywhere near as
limited in small peripherals like sticks or MP3 players with Linux.
(However, I'll burn to a CD-RW, too, just in case!)
So, anyway, once the location of the repository "install" files is
determined, I'd just go to that location, pick them up and then
compile at my destination Linux computer?
>> So although I've got the file dl from Softpedia, would like to know if
>> I get the same outcome by a yum install. If not, can one somehow
>> "extract" all the installed files to get the source/binary files to
>> then in future install somewhere else?
>
>You have the RPMs temporarily stored on the machine, read the man page for yum
>for more information.
Okay, so I end up with files all in one place somewhere. Good. Not
like a Window$ web install at all. Good. Thought so.
I actually googled for fedora yum info and started reading. Must
admit I started to get a headache <g>. So I'll come back to it. Thx.
To see if I've understood, although the yum install commands has the
word "install", I'm guessing then if we end up with files in one
place, that's it's actually more like a download command really than
an actual stupid Window$-type of "install" command?
Okey-doke. So only two questions remain at this point?:
1. How does Linux install? Did I have it right, above? A Linux
installation is somehow just a coalescing of components into a
standalone binary with perhaps a shortcut dumped into the main menu
somewhere?
2. What happens if the app you want isn't actually available in the
repository? What could be done then?
THANK YOU!!!! :oD
RodMcKay
wrote:
Hmm, interesting. That makes me feel better. I won't be required to
become an engineer overnight, then! <lol>
>As for downloading multiple times, you could set up a squid proxy, and
>only download once.
>
>http://www.squid-cache.org/
Oh, something new. Kewl. Will look into that. Not an option for
those with tout internet access, but it might prove very handy in
other instances. Thanks. :oD
RodMcKay
wrote:
>RodMcKay wrote:
[snip]
>> So although I've got the file dl from Softpedia, would like to know if
>> I get the same outcome by a yum install. If not, can one somehow
>> "extract" all the installed files to get the source/binary files to
>> then in future install somewhere else?
>
>You have the RPMs temporarily stored on the machine, read the man page for yum
>for more information.
<shaky laugh> Well, I think I finally know where to start with that
advice.
I'd been going nuts since yesterday reading yum man page after yum man
page on the net and turns out that's not what it is at all!! <wry
grin> I just couldn't find the information I was seeking. I just
joined a Linux forum and they have a neat feature I've never seen on
any other forum. They have a button before you post your question
that allows you to see if others have asked the same thing. I didn't
have to post it as I found a reply that lead me to a page that is very
useful (and, yeah yeah, we should search first, but I don't always
remember. Same as you! <g> That button is a great feature and all
forums should have it!):
"Is there a man page on how to use a man page?"
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/is-there-a-man-page-on-how-to-use-man-page-249083/
which says that
$ man man (in the terminal)
will give us info. And also a page is listed on the web:
"THE LINUX MAN-PAGE-HOWTO":
http://www.schweikhardt.net/man_page_howto.html
But in meantime, until I go back into Linux and access the info, I do
have this info from the other thread I found which might also help:
"Where is the repository files?"
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/susenovell-60/where-is-the-repository-files-722928/
"Hi,
In fedora 10 the repository files are in /etc/yum.repos.d/ directory.
Where are those in openSUSE 11.1?
------------
I think you mean the configuration files for the package manager....
Try these:
/etc/yum
/etc/rpm
/etc/yast
....or just browse through /etc
------------
Found here:
/etc/zypp/repos.d
------------"
So I'll give that a try next time I'm on Linux.
Thanks. :oD
Snowbat
> As for downloading multiple times, you could set up a squid proxy, and
> only download once.
>
> http://www.squid-cache.org/
The default Squid configuration (at least on the Mandriva 2008.0 package
on my server) doesn't cache objects greater than 4 MB and total cache
size is a lowly 100 MB. To make it useful for caching package downloads
from repositories, I've bumped the maximum object size up to 512000 KB
and the total size up to 5000 MB in my /etc/squid/squid.conf
maximum_object_size 512000 KB
cache_dir ufs /var/spool/squid 5000 16 256
I also had to uncomment these lines to allow access from my LAN:
acl our_networks src 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.2.0/24
http_access allow our_networks
Alternatively, you can also tell yum to retain downloaded packages rather
than delete them. This is useful if you want to copy the downloads to
another medium (eg. CD/DVD/Flash) for off-network installation on other
machines.
Snowbat
> As for downloading multiple times, you could set up a squid proxy, and
> only download once.
>
> http://www.squid-cache.org/
The default Squid configuration (at least on the Mandriva 2008.0 package
Snowbat
> As for downloading multiple times, you could set up a squid proxy, and
> only download once.
>
> http://www.squid-cache.org/
The default Squid configuration (at least on the Mandriva 2008.0 package