A new reader? Welcome to alt.os.linux, read this first if you're new here (FAQ)
FAQ
New reader? Great! Welcome! Here's how to make best use
of this newsgroup and get yourself a slice of the best help
available. Now read on ...
TESTING YOUR CONNECTION
Errm, first a delicate point. Often users accessing a forum
like this for the first time don't realize that posts don't
show up immediately, certainly not for several minutes, and
maybe not for some hours. In the old days, it took as long
as the camel bearing the news took! So they tend to post
"test" messages. Please don't!
It really is a netiquette faux pas; it gets on the regulars'
nerves and will get you flamed. It's much like switching a
light switch on and off would get on the nerves of the people
in the room!
Just sit back and wait for the post to show up, or be subtle
enough to post something that at least looks like a sensible
post, not just a "hello, testing, testing"! And if you
really want to post "testing, testing" messages, post to the
approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
Those groups include at least:
alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
By all means, experiment and test - in the proper place.
YOUR POST
You may notice that we get many hundreds of posts a week here.
That's a lot of posts, and a lot of reading for the people
who read these groups, who, after all, are the people who are
going to answer your questions. So it's in your interest to
reduce the amount of reading they have to do. Often, you can
get an answer faster without posting your question at all!
Before you post, you should try:
a) Reading the manual for your system.
Some day you will encounter the phrase "RTFM", which stands for
"Read the Fine Manual" (except 'F' doesn't really stand for
"Fine"). If you ask someone a question and they tell you to
RTFM, it's an indication that you haven't done your homework
and you should look harder (or for the first time!) at the
material they indicate.
By the way, when these people use terminology like "read(2)",
they are referring to the man page in section 2 of the manual
which deals with the "read" command, and you would access this
page by the command "man 2 read", typed at a command line. Yes,
there is a command line. Let's not go through that just now ...
By the way, regular posters use a lot of acronyms. "BTW" means
"by the way", BTW. Try "The Jargon Lexicon" as reference:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/lexicon.html
b) Searching the archives.
Your question almost certainly has already been answered in the
past, because you are not alone in the universe! Other people
have used the same software as you. Other people have bought
the same hardware. Go here, fill in the search field with
likely words, hit return and see what comes up:
What? No answer? You're ET. Naw ... you need to practice using
search engines. Use words that are likely to get a response,
and repeat the search refining each time the keywords you use
until you get just the responses you want. It's a very good
idea to let "linux" be the first of them! For example
linux debian faq
should pull up references to this FAQ.
Still no success? OK. Then you're down to
c) Posting on the newsgroups.
To which newsgroup should you post?
A comprehensive overview of 159 Linux newsgroups:
http://www.linux.org/docs/usenetlinux.html
Don't ask why there are so many. Perhaps it's part of Linus's
"World domination" plan. Who knows? ;)
If you are unsure, try in comp.os.linux.misc or alt.os.linux
and with a little luck, some wizard will answer your question
or/and direct you to the proper place.
How should you post? Here is what the technical experts want
to see;
i) data, data and data, but not your impressions. That is,
no "narrative description" but instead an exact reproduction,
by copy and paste with the mouse, of each and every datum that
you are basing your ideas of what is going on on. Do not trust
yourself to type! Use the mouse. You will miss data of great
significance to others that will mislead (and annoy!) them,
such as a space, a capital letter, a digit instead of a
letter, etc. etc.
ii) This is already implied by the above, but include debug
logs or/and full error messages (repeat, the originals, not
hand copies). Do not "attach" them! Include them in-line
in the text because people need to see them simultaneously
with your commentary, and in the context of your narrative.
Post a reasonable amount of those logs (rows <= 25). You'll
ease up things if you include which distro you are running,
if unsure 'cat /etc/*release', 'cat /etc/*version' or/and
'lsb_release -d' should tell (most distro).
ii) Again, this got implied above, but it's worth emphasizing.
Use ASCII (text) only! Don't use HTML or add any vcards or
alike. Please use a maximum line width of 65-72 (characters),
except where the log line or error message you quote is longer
(it shouldn't usually be), in which case preserve it exactly
in preference to confusing the issue by adding your own line
breaks, no matter how long it is.
How would such a beast look like? Go to:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search - Cut&Paste into
"Message ID": uViCr8LlbtmJ-pn2-j4FfJwqUgJxj@poblano + hit return.
USEFUL SUBJECTS
The Subject: line of an article is what will first attract
people to read it. If it's vague or doesn't describe what's
contained within, no one will read the article. They have
better things to do with their lives.
However, Subject: lines that're too wordy tend to be irritating.
For example:
Good Subject:
"xinetd failure Mandriva 10.1, error:"cps time argument
not a number"
Good Subject:
"bind 9.2 FC 3 fails to cache multiple cnames"
Bad Subject:
"Can't dial to Internet!!! Pulling my hair apart,
nothing works! HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Bad Subject:
"HELP!!!! Ftp doesn't work for me at all, how come
!?!?!"
Simply put, try to think of what will best help the reader
when he or she encounters your article in a newsreading
session. Also think about who you want to answer. Do you want
a psychiatrist? No? Then avoid "HELP !!!!" as a subject
line. If you want an expert in oracle databases, then post
"oracle vX.Y on Suse SLES 9. How assign passwd?".
And don't forget - the subject line is NOT part of the article,
no more than the title of a newspaper article is part of
the newspaper article. So don't be shy about repeating the
subject in the article as the first line. It costs you a cut
and paste with the mouse, and saves everyone else an "eh,
what's 'e on about"? Not everyone reads the subject before
reading the article, and even those who do may only be able
to see the first 40 characters or so of your elegant title.
CROSS-POSTING
This is a bit boring, but you really do want to know this.
Put it down in your "advanced posting techniques" file.
Let's go ... Now, the "Newsgroups:" line on your posting isn't
limited to containing just one group; an article can be posted
in a list of groups. For instance, the line
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
posts the article to both the groups alt.os.linux and
comp.os.linux.setup at the same time. More accurately, it
makes the same article accessible from both these different
newsgroups. This is called "cross-posting". It's usually safe
to cross-post to up to three or four groups. To list more than
that is considered excessive and annoying and will earn you
some heat. Let's not get into why. But it's not as annoying as
"multi-posting", which is posting copies of the same article
to several different newsgroups, and you should more readily
be able to imagine why that's likely to win you undying flames.
Anyway, to summarize, cross-posting is infinitely better than
multi-posting, but don't cross-post to more than three or
so groups.
It's strongly suggested that when an article is cross-posted
then a "Followup-To:" header field be included. It should
name the group to which all additional discussion should be
directed to. For the above example, this might be:
Followup-To: comp.os.linux.setup
which would make all followups automatically be posted to
just comp.os.linux.setup, rather than both alt.os.linux and
comp.os.linux.setup.
Why would anyone be cross-posting (or multi-posting, owww!) in
the first place? Presumably because that way they think
they'll get a bigger audience and therefore more answers.
Unfortunately, this is on the way to being about as clever
thinking as posting a spam mail to the whole of hong kong
asking for help with the problem would be. Enough said?
How far along the way on that particular road to infamy you
get depends on whether you cross-posted or multi-posted, and
how many groups you did it to, and whether you at least set
a Followup-To. If in doubt, don't do it at all. And if you're
reading this, you are in doubt, so please don't!
REPLYING & QUOTING & TRIMMING
When following up to an article, many newsreaders provide the
facility to quote the original article with each line prefixed
by > , as in
In article <12...@foo.bar.com>, sha...@foo.bar.com wrote:
>> I think that basketweaving's really catching on, particularly
>> in Pennsylvania. Here's a list of every person in PA that
>> currently engages in it publicly: [..]
This example began to quote a horribly long article, but broke
off and indicated the missing text with ellipses "[..]". That's
excellent posting technique! I.e.
When you quote another person, edit out whatever isn't
directly relevant to understanding your reply.
Please, please, remember to do that.
This gives the reader of the new article a perfect idea of
exactly what points you were addressing. By including the
entire article, you'll only annoy your readers, assuming you
get any! Who knows what your "yes, I agree" is referring to
if you quote all 100 lines of the original text! Maybe you
are agreeing that hanging is too good for shoplifters. Maybe
you are agreeing that it's a good morning.
Now here's another part of good posting technique:
Always put your response below and between the quoted text!
That means, as you read through the text you are replying to
in your editor, you remove the bits you are not interested
in commenting on, then when you come to a bit you want to
comment on, you leave the relevant sentence in place, add an
empty line, and write your comment right below it, then leave
another empty line.
Then you carry on through the rest of the text. You
left the quote and your comment nicely framed and easily
comprehensible. Even more importantly, you let somebody new
come in and comment on your comment while keeping the framing
correct.
Why NOT "top post"? Well, here are some answers:
http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html
http://www.illuminated.co.uk/blog/archives/000409.html
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/brox.html
In this editor's opinion, you have to understand that you are
not writing a business letter to another company's lawyers,
which is about the only real life situation in which you will
affix the entire previous conversation to the end of your reply!
If you think so, then you are mistaking the nature of the medium
you are in - we likely already have access to your previous
post, thanks to the wonders of electronics, but we might not
be bothered to go and look at it or might have forgotten it
and its detail, so we appreciate a little orienting context in
just the right place, but please not the whole flipping thing.
MORE INFO
"What is Usenet?"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1/
"The Usenet Newbie Project"
http://tgos.org/newbie/index2.html
"Eric S. Raymond (ESR) & Rick Moen:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way?"
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
"Advanced Usenet Usage"
http://livinginternet.com/?u/ua.htm
"Netiquette Guidelines RFC1855"
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html
"Tips on USENET's comp.* Newsgroups"
http://www.andrewu.co.uk/clj.asp
"How to make killfiles for use with various newsreaders."
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
"What is a troll, what do they do, why do they do it, and
what can one do about them? (Anti Troll FAQ)"
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
"Google Groups users please read - Howto reply properly"
http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=14213
DISCLAIMER
This "FAQ" (published under GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE) has
been assembled/rewritten from various online sources, it does
not claim to be complete, see URLs above, just a quick start.
Special thanks for additional hints, that have been included to:
Bill Unruh, Bit Twister, Sybren Stuvel, Peter Karlsson,
Peter T. Breuer (Complete revision 03/2003), Moe Trin,
Stan Goodman and Rick Moen
Have a lot of fun...
Michael Heiming
--
If you can't avoid to drop me a mail, remove "www." and put my
first name before the @.
FAQ
FAQ
matt_left_coast
> And if you
> really want to post "testing, testing" messages, post to the
> approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
> Those groups include at least:
>
> alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
>
That is, IF your server caries test groups.
Sybren Stuvel
> That is, IF your server caries test groups.
I've never seen a server without any test group.
Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Frank Zappa
Bit Twister
> matt_left_coast enlightened us with:
>> That is, IF your server caries test groups.
>
> I've never seen a server without any test group.
You might want to read this thread see what you are in for if you
chose to follow up to matt_left_coast.
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
2862814.A...@rcn.com In the message id box
Note, matt_left_coast has set up his local pc without a test group
and used it as proof of _a server_ without test groups.
Sybren Stuvel
> You might want to read this thread see what you are in for if you
> chose to follow up to matt_left_coast.
He's already in my killfile, with a score that's just not low enough
to hide his posts. I do like his sparkling personality, especially
when it comes to the sheer poetry he draws from Dan C.
matt_left_coast
> matt_left_coast enlightened us with:
>> That is, IF your server caries test groups.
>
> I've never seen a server without any test group.
>
> Sybren
And that proves WHAT? Have you seen ALL servers? How arrogant of you that yo
think your think that because you have not seen something, that it does not
exist. I am posting from a server without test groups. Businesses that set
up servers as proxies to allow usenet access but limit the access to groups
that make business sense (preventing access to groups like warez,
erotic.*...) may not allow access to test groups because nobody ever made a
business case for them. I know of two businesses where this is the case.
matt_left_coast
You may want to read up on how Bit Twister assumes that "share a folder"
means share .kde, thus means share login, then answers with an answer that
has NOTHING to do with sharing ANYTHING!
Bit is bitter because I can point out his errors.
matt_left_coast
> Bit Twister enlightened us with:
>> You might want to read this thread see what you are in for if you
>> chose to follow up to matt_left_coast.
>
> He's already in my killfile, with a score that's just not low enough
> to hide his posts. I do like his sparkling personality, especially
> when it comes to the sheer poetry he draws from Dan C.
>
> Sybren
Good. If you are so arrogant as to think that because you have not seen
something, it does not exist, I don't care what you think of me. If you
think Bit is helpful when he give WRONGLY GUESSES at what people what when
the question is PERFECTLY CLEAR, Then I truly don't give a shit about your
opinion.
matt_left_coast
> Note, matt_left_coast has set up his local pc without a test group
> and used it as proof of _a server_ without test groups.
No, it is used to limit access to sex groups (among other things) by under
aged children. I would recommend anyone that has under aged children that
use the internet do the same (you? would you recommend the parents just
give full usenet access to there 8 year old?). The server only carries
newsgroups that I need or cater to my guests that regularly use on of my
computers for internet access. It would seem that the "expert" Bit, has a
beef with a LEGITIMATE method of controlling content seen by users. Oh
well, what would I expect from a person that thinks that because someone
wants to "share a folder" that means they want to share the .kde folder,
that means they are talking about a shared login so that means Bit's answer
should not include ANYTHING about SHARING anything!
Sybren Stuvel
>> I've never seen a server without any test group.
>
> that yo think your think that because you have not seen something,
> that it does not exist.
See, this is why I react to your posts. All I say is that I've never
seen something, and you immediately start shouting in caps, calling me
arrogant. And at the same time you don't even write proper English.
> I am posting from a server without test groups.
Poor boy.
> Businesses that set up servers as proxies to allow usenet access but
> limit the access to groups that make business sense (preventing
> access to groups like warez, erotic.*...) may not allow access to
> test groups because nobody ever made a business case for them.
So? We tell those people to use a test group, they go to their sysops,
ask for a test group, and get access to a test group. If the sysops
don't listen to their users, they are lame and don't deserve their
jobs. But hey, that's just my opinion.
Bit Twister
> Bit Twister wrote:
>
>> Note, matt_left_coast has set up his local pc without a test group
>> and used it as proof of _a server_ without test groups.
>
> No, it is used to limit access to sex groups (among other things) by under
> aged children.
Sorry, you are trying to divert attention from the truth.
Looking at Message-Id: <4055791.C...@rcn.com> you used your
server as proof of a server without a test group.
Your reason for your setup has no bearing on a server having a test
group or not.
> I would recommend anyone that has under aged children that
> use the internet do the same (you? would you recommend the parents just
> give full usenet access to there 8 year old?). The server only carries
> newsgroups that I need or cater to my guests that regularly use on of my
> computers for internet access. It would seem that the "expert" Bit, has a
> beef with a LEGITIMATE method of controlling content seen by users.
There you go again with more libellous accusations:
1. I said nothing about controlling content by users. That is a Very Poor
redirection attempt of emotional content to avoid the facts.
2. I never claimed to be an expert.
You are the one calling me an "expert".
No one else as claimed I am an expert, if I remember correctly.
<snipped yet another attempt to direct attention away from the two libellous
accusations and hijack this thread .>
Michael Heiming
> FAQ (bi-weekly) wrote:
$ grep -c test /var/spool/news/leaf.node/groupinfo
177
Get a better ISP or/and nntp server.
--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvp...@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 258: That's easy to fix, but I can't be bothered.
matt_left_coast
> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.org>:
>> FAQ (bi-weekly) wrote:
>
>>> And if you
>>> really want to post "testing, testing" messages, post to the
>>> approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
>>> Those groups include at least:
>>>
>>> alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
>>>
>
>> That is, IF your server caries test groups.
>
> $ grep -c test /var/spool/news/leaf.node/groupinfo
> 177
>
> Get a better ISP or/and nntp server.
>
Dude, I use this server to grant limited access to Usenet for underaged kids
that I don't want having access to .sex groups among others.
Get a clue.
matt_left_coast
> matt_left_coast enlightened us with:
>>> I've never seen a server without any test group.
>>
>> And that proves WHAT? Have you seen ALL servers? How arrogant of you
>> that yo think your think that because you have not seen something,
>> that it does not exist.
>
> See, this is why I react to your posts. All I say is that I've never
> seen something, and you immediately start shouting in caps, calling me
> arrogant. And at the same time you don't even write proper English.
to bad. What you have "seen" proves nothing. If you don't understand that,
then I don't care what you think of me.
>
>> I am posting from a server without test groups.
>
> Poor boy.
Not at all. It serves the function for what it is designed. But "poor boy"
comments from people that act as if their limited knowledge of how usenet
works proves anything why I don't care what you think of me.
The fact to the matter is, it IS A SERVER THAT DOES NOT HAVE TEST GROUPS.
It is legitimate to set up proxy servers to stop underage users from getting
access to groups parents, guardians, librarians, school
administrators/teachers).
>
>> Businesses that set up servers as proxies to allow usenet access but
>> limit the access to groups that make business sense (preventing
>> access to groups like warez, erotic.*...) may not allow access to
>> test groups because nobody ever made a business case for them.
>
> So? We tell those people to use a test group, they go to their sysops,
> ask for a test group, and get access to a test group.
Do you really think they are going to go though all that when they can just
post "test"????? Only anal asses would go though the process of building a
business case when all they have to do is post "test" to an available
group. Only an arrogant ass would ask someone to go though all that just
because they do not like seeing "test" messages.
> If the sysops
> don't listen to their users, they are lame and don't deserve their
> jobs. But hey, that's just my opinion.
Wow, how arrogant of you. To claim that a "sysop" is lame because they don't
carry test groups. Guess everyone that does things you don't like is "lame"
right?
>
> Sybren
matt_left_coast
> On Wed, 03 May 2006 09:47:28 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>> Bit Twister wrote:
>>
>>> Note, matt_left_coast has set up his local pc without a test group
>>> and used it as proof of _a server_ without test groups.
>>
>> No, it is used to limit access to sex groups (among other things) by
>> under aged children.
>
> Sorry, you are trying to divert attention from the truth.
Nope.
>
> Looking at Message-Id: <4055791.C...@rcn.com> you used your
> server as proof of a server without a test group.
I cited it as an example. IT IS USED AS I DESCRIBED. You do know the
difference between "cited" and "used", right? But this is such a
pathetically minor point, one has to wonder why you would even make it. You
have to resort to such petty sentax games? Guess you have nothing
subsnative to make a point with but your hate still won't let you admit you
are wrong.
>
> Your reason for your setup has no bearing on a server having a test
> group or not.
Yes, it does. It determines the true "USE" of the system. I USE the system
to censor groups I don't want underage kids to see. I CITE it as an example
of a server that does not have test groups. It's "USE" is as a filter, not
as proof of anything.
>
>> I would recommend anyone that has under aged children that
>> use the internet do the same (you? would you recommend the parents just
>> give full usenet access to there 8 year old?). The server only carries
>> newsgroups that I need or cater to my guests that regularly use on of my
>> computers for internet access. It would seem that the "expert" Bit, has a
>> beef with a LEGITIMATE method of controlling content seen by users.
>
> There you go again with more libellous accusations:
>
> 1. I said nothing about controlling content by users.
Where DID I SAY YOU DID? Again you rabid hate has blinded you to what was
said. I ASKED you "you? would you recommend the parents just give full
usenet access to there 8 year old?" I also started my other statement " It
would seem", starting a statement this way does NOT CLAIM YOU "SAID"
anything specific.
Again, you make BAD ASSUMPTIONS.
The FACT IS, many servers used by business and people limit the access to
groups. Many do this by only granting access to *APPROVED* groups. (the old
"what is not explicitly granted is denied" method of security. Your posts
to this time has been to _imply_ that only a few if any would do such a
thing. A claim of your about 99.99% comes to mind.
> That is a Very Poor
> redirection attempt of emotional content to avoid the facts.
Not at all. I never claimed you /*_SAID_*/ anything about controlling
content. That is your own hate reading what you want to read.
I ASKED YOU "you? would you recommend the parents just give full usenet
access to there 8 year old?"
I am wondering why you could not JUST ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION?
>
> 2. I never claimed to be an expert.
You know better than to STATE THAT lie. But hanging around in as many groups
as you do offering advise as much as you are is PRESENTING YOUSELF AS AN
EXPERT.
> You are the one calling me an "expert".
Only sarcastically, I assure you. I can assure you, you are not expert.
> No one else as claimed I am an expert, if I remember correctly.
If you are not an expert, why do you think you can ASSUME that someone
asking to "share a folder" means "share a .kde folder" which means "share a
login"? If you were not thinking your self such the expert in figuring out
that people don't want what they say but only what what YOU ASSUME THEY
WANT.
>
> <snipped yet another attempt to direct attention away from the two
> libellous accusations and hijack this thread .>
Wow, the hate just flows from you. It is clear that your post above is an
emotional attempt to divert from the point so now it is time to get back to
the real points:
A: YOU HAVE NO LEGITIMATE WAY TO MAKE ANY CLAIM THAT TEST GROUPS ARE
AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE.
B: THERE ARE LEGITIMATE REASONS SOMEONE WOULD SET UP A SERVER THAT DOES NOT
HAVE TEST GROUPS.
C: TO CLAIM OR IMPLY THAT EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO TEST GROUPS WITHOUT KNOWING
THIS AS A FACT IS WRONG.
D: TO CLAIM OR IMPLY THAT A PERSON POSTING DOES INDEED HAVE ACCESS TO TEST
GROUPS WHEN YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS IS THE CASE WRONG.
E: TRYING TO CLAIM A LIE OR HURTFUL COMMENTS ARE "HUMOR" DOES NOT MAKE THEM
ANY LESS A LIE OR HURTFUL. HUMOR CAN BE USED TO LIE AND HURT JUST AS MUCH
AS ANY SERIOUS CLAIM.
F: THE "USE" OF MY SERVER IS AS A "PROXY" SERVER. CITING IT AS AN EXAMPLE
DOES NOT CHANGE WHAT IT IS USED FOR.
matt_left_coast
> In <f32ni3-...@alta.sierrandays.org>, on Wed, 03 May 2006 09:24:45
> -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>
>> I am posting from a server without test groups.
>
> I find it difficult to believe that news.rcn.net
> doesn't have test groups.
Dude, I post to a "home" server that is used to "filter" groups I do not
want underage kids to have access to. That server posts to RCN. GET IT?
Just because RCN added those headers DOES NOT MEAN THAT THAT IS THE SERVER
THE MESSAGE WAS FIRST POSTED TO.
Michael Heiming
> Michael Heiming wrote:
And this has exactly to do with denying access to "test" groups?
So you block access to the groups mentioned and now moan about
our new reader FAQ? You are joking, please fix your broken config
or ask someone who knows what he is doing.
--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvp...@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 62: need to wrap system in aluminum foil to
fix problem
Sybren Stuvel
> to bad. What you have "seen" proves nothing. If you don't understand
> that, then I don't care what you think of me.
There you go again, talking about proving stuff. Who said I wanted to
prove something? You did. If you can't understand that, you wouldn't
know a proof if you sat on it.
> The fact to the matter is, it IS A SERVER THAT DOES NOT HAVE TEST
> GROUPS.
Fair enough. I never said it didn't exist. I never intended to prove
anything. You made that up. It was all in your head.
> Wow, how arrogant of you. To claim that a "sysop" is lame because
> they don't carry test groups. Guess everyone that does things you
> don't like is "lame" right?
Pretty much, yeah, when I don't see the point in their actions. Like
you assuming I'm trying to prove anything, then bashing me for not
giving proof. That's lame.
Bit Twister
>>
>> Sorry, you are trying to divert attention from the truth.
>
> Nope.
Bull Sh%t. Your flame is about test groups not on all servers.
You are trying, yet again to change thread.
>
>>
>> Looking at Message-Id: <4055791.C...@rcn.com> you used your
>> server as proof of a server without a test group.
>
> I cited it as an example. IT IS USED AS I DESCRIBED. You do know the
> difference between "cited" and "used", right? But this is such a
> pathetically minor point, one has to wonder why you would even make it. You
> have to resort to such petty sentax games? Guess you have nothing
> subsnative to make a point with but your hate still won't let you admit you
> are wrong.
More BS. I was telling Sybren Stuve that you used you setup as an
example of a server. You are off on some " petty sentax games"
>
>>
>> Your reason for your setup has no bearing on a server having a test
>> group or not.
>
> Yes, it does. It determines the true "USE" of the system. I USE the system
> to censor groups I don't want underage kids to see. I CITE it as an example
> of a server that does not have test groups. It's "USE" is as a filter, not
> as proof of anything.
More BS. Your complaint was If server has the test group. What does
your "USE" have to do with your complaint, nothing but more misdirection.
>
>>
>>> I would recommend anyone that has under aged children that
>>> use the internet do the same (you? would you recommend the parents just
>>> give full usenet access to there 8 year old?). The server only carries
>>> newsgroups that I need or cater to my guests that regularly use on of my
>>> computers for internet access. It would seem that the "expert" Bit, has a
>>> beef with a LEGITIMATE method of controlling content seen by users.
>>
>> There you go again with more libellous accusations:
>>
>> 1. I said nothing about controlling content by users.
>
> Where DID I SAY YOU DID?
Well I guess you are playing the semantics game.
" It would seem that the "expert" Bit, has a beef with a LEGITIMATE
method of controlling content seen by users."
You are injecting the FUD.
Again you rabid hate has blinded you to what was
> said. I ASKED you "you? would you recommend the parents just give full
> usenet access to there 8 year old?" I also started my other statement " It
> would seem", starting a statement this way does NOT CLAIM YOU "SAID"
> anything specific.
Seems you left out
" It would seem that the "expert" Bit, has a beef with a LEGITIMATE
method of controlling content seen by users."
>
> Again, you make BAD ASSUMPTIONS.
At best you are making the assumption, let's point that out again
shall we.
" Bit, has a beef with a LEGITIMATE
method of controlling content seen by users."
>> That is a Very Poor
>> redirection attempt of emotional content to avoid the facts.
>
> Not at all. I never claimed you /*_SAID_*/ anything about controlling
> content. That is your own hate reading what you want to read.
>
> I am wondering why you could not JUST ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION?
No, not going to let you crall away from the flame you started.
>> 2. I never claimed to be an expert.
>
> You know better than to STATE THAT lie. But hanging around in as many groups
> as you do offering advise as much as you are is PRESENTING YOUSELF AS AN
> EXPERT.
That is a total fantasy in your mind.
>> You are the one calling me an "expert".
>
> Only sarcastically, I assure you. I can assure you, you are not expert.
I never said I was, you are the one saying it why are you trying to
asure me. I already know I am not an expert.
>
>> No one else as claimed I am an expert, if I remember correctly.
>
> If you are not an expert, why do you think you can ASSUME that someone
> asking to "share a folder" means "share a .kde folder" which means "share a
> login"? If you were not thinking your self such the expert in figuring out
> that people don't want what they say but only what what YOU ASSUME THEY
> WANT.
More BS with the expert crap. I can ASSUME anything I like. Kill file
me if you do not like my assumptions or asking questions in a thread.
>
>>
>> <snipped yet another attempt to direct attention away from the two
>> libellous accusations and hijack this thread .>
>
> Wow, the hate just flows from you. It is clear that your post above is an
> emotional attempt to divert from the point
Ok, please. You dragged
" Bit, has a beef with a LEGITIMATEmethod of controlling content seen by users."
> so now it is time to get back to
> the real points:
>
> A: YOU HAVE NO LEGITIMATE WAY TO MAKE ANY CLAIM THAT TEST GROUPS ARE
> AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE.
I Never claimed they did. You are beating that dead horse.
>
> B: THERE ARE LEGITIMATE REASONS SOMEONE WOULD SET UP A SERVER THAT DOES NOT
> HAVE TEST GROUPS.
NULL statement. Do not care for their reasons.
> C: TO CLAIM OR IMPLY THAT EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO TEST GROUPS WITHOUT KNOWING
> THIS AS A FACT IS WRONG.
Never claimed or implied that. You are the one trying to make a
mountain out of a molehill.
> D: TO CLAIM OR IMPLY THAT A PERSON POSTING DOES INDEED HAVE ACCESS TO TEST
> GROUPS WHEN YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS IS THE CASE WRONG.
More BS dragged in by you to support your stand on "not everyone has
access to test groups".
> E: TRYING TO CLAIM A LIE OR HURTFUL COMMENTS ARE "HUMOR" DOES NOT MAKE THEM
> ANY LESS A LIE OR HURTFUL. HUMOR CAN BE USED TO LIE AND HURT JUST AS MUCH
> AS ANY SERIOUS CLAIM.
More BS dragged in by you to misdirect the thread.
> F: THE "USE" OF MY SERVER IS AS A "PROXY" SERVER. CITING IT AS AN EXAMPLE
> DOES NOT CHANGE WHAT IT IS USED FOR.
The BS just higher and higher. You usenet server not having a test
group is what was pointed out, not it USE.
matt_left_coast
> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.org>:
>> Michael Heiming wrote:
>
>>> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.org>:
>>>> FAQ (bi-weekly) wrote:
>>>
>>>>> And if you
>>>>> really want to post "testing, testing" messages, post to the
>>>>> approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
>>>>> Those groups include at least:
>>>>>
>>>>> alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> That is, IF your server caries test groups.
>>>
>>> $ grep -c test /var/spool/news/leaf.node/groupinfo
>>> 177
>>>
>>> Get a better ISP or/and nntp server.
>
>> Dude, I use this server to grant limited access to Usenet for underaged
>> kids that I don't want having access to .sex groups among others.
>
> And this has exactly to do with denying access to "test" groups?
Test groups are not ON THE SERVER. How are they going to ACCESS test groups
if "test" groups are not on the server? I have 2 underage kids and another
adult that use the server. To get access to a group, they have to ask for a
specific group, I then approve or disapprove of the group. As of yet,
NOBODY as asked for test groups. Why should I carry groups nobody wants. As
the 14 year old says "I'm not interested in if my post gets to a 'test'
group, only if it gets to the group I want to subscribe to".
> So you block access to the groups mentioned and now moan about
> our new reader FAQ?
What I have done is what many people and businesses DO DO.
> You are joking,
Why should I, you're a big enough joke for me to have a laugh all day long.
> please fix your broken config
There is nothing to fix. There is NO REQUIREMENT that I carry "test" and
NONE of the people that use the server have any desire to use test groups.
There is NO REQUIREMENT (and netiquette is NOT A REQUIREMET) that I post
test messages to test groups.
>
> or ask someone who knows what he is doing.
>
Then I will not be asking YOU.
matt_left_coast
> matt_left_coast enlightened us with:
>> to bad. What you have "seen" proves nothing. If you don't understand
>> that, then I don't care what you think of me.
>
> There you go again, talking about proving stuff. Who said I wanted to
> prove something? You did. If you can't understand that, you wouldn't
> know a proof if you sat on it.
Translation, YOU CAN'T PROVE IT, so you try to make me look bad by saying
there is something wrong with asking for PROOF. Get a clue boy, there is
NOTHING WRONG WITH ASKING SOMEONE TO PROVE their claims.
>
>> The fact to the matter is, it IS A SERVER THAT DOES NOT HAVE TEST
>> GROUPS.
>
> Fair enough. I never said it didn't exist. I never intended to prove
> anything. You made that up. It was all in your head.
Then who the fuck cares what you have or have not SEEN? Why bother posting
what you have not seen if NOT TO MAKE A POINT?
>
>> Wow, how arrogant of you. To claim that a "sysop" is lame because
>> they don't carry test groups. Guess everyone that does things you
>> don't like is "lame" right?
>
> Pretty much, yeah, when I don't see the point in their actions.
Lack of understanding on YOUR part does not make for undesirable on ANYONE
ELSE PART.
> Like
> you assuming I'm trying to prove anything, then bashing me for not
> giving proof. That's lame.
Oh, so you posted your post about not having seen any servers for no reason
what so ever, you posted it without ANY INTENTION OF PROVING OR MAKING A
POINT. That is what you are claiming?
>
> Sybren
matt_left_coast
<snip more auto-negation by Bit Twister>
Just because you can negate what was said does not make you right.
Your posts to the people that post test messages are derogatory humor that
does not take into account that they may not have access to test groups.
Putting your self up on a judgmental pedestal to make proclamations as to
who you are going to be condescending to without regards to if they have a
legitimate reason for why they posted there "test" message to the group
they posted to is WRONG.
No amount of your childish auto-negation will change that fact.
matt_left_coast
> I've never seen a server without any test group.
If you were not trying to make a point or prove something with the above
line, why post it?
Michael Heiming
> Michael Heiming wrote:
>> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.org>:
>>> Michael Heiming wrote:
>>
>>>> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.org>:
>>>>> FAQ (bi-weekly) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> And if you
>>>>>> really want to post "testing, testing" messages, post to the
>>>>>> approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
>>>>>> Those groups include at least:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That is, IF your server caries test groups.
>>>>
>>>> $ grep -c test /var/spool/news/leaf.node/groupinfo
>>>> 177
>>>>
>>>> Get a better ISP or/and nntp server.
>>
>>> Dude, I use this server to grant limited access to Usenet for underaged
>>> kids that I don't want having access to .sex groups among others.
>>
>> And this has exactly to do with denying access to "test" groups?
> Test groups are not ON THE SERVER. How are they going to ACCESS test groups
> if "test" groups are not on the server? I have 2 underage kids and another
> adult that use the server. To get access to a group, they have to ask for a
> specific group, I then approve or disapprove of the group. As of yet,
At least your kids know where the BOFH lives. ;-)
You still haven't answered the above question, what denying
access to "test" groups has to do with protecting kids form
"*sex*" groups?
> NOBODY as asked for test groups. Why should I carry groups nobody wants. As
> the 14 year old says "I'm not interested in if my post gets to a 'test'
> group, only if it gets to the group I want to subscribe to".
>> So you block access to the groups mentioned and now moan about
>> our new reader FAQ?
> What I have done is what many people and businesses DO DO.
Nope, binary groups are sometimes blocked, even if only to save
disk space. It's a pitfall to conduct from your harsh nntp server
regiment to others.
>> You are joking,
> Why should I, you're a big enough joke for me to have a laugh all day long.
>> please fix your broken config
> There is nothing to fix. There is NO REQUIREMENT that I carry "test" and
> NONE of the people that use the server have any desire to use test groups.
> There is NO REQUIREMENT (and netiquette is NOT A REQUIREMET) that I post
> test messages to test groups.
None said so, our new reader FAQ is just asking people to use
test groups for testing purpose, to help not annoying others in a
regular group and to help preventing them looking like an idiot
posting "test ,test" messages here. But alas, this seems over
your head.
[..]
>> or ask someone who knows what he is doing.
>>
> Then I will not be asking YOU.
Glad to hear. ;-)
You have no point, but started this flamewar, which is neither
inventive nor funny, just pretty lame...
--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvp...@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 303: fractal radiation jamming the backbone
matt_left_coast
Sorry, they don't know where YOU live.
>
> You still haven't answered the above question, what denying
> access to "test" groups has to do with protecting kids form
> "*sex*" groups?
I have answered the question, the only groups that are allows are the ONES
REQUESTED and APPROVED. That is the system. Sex groups have never been
approved and test groups have never been requested.
I will NOT add test groups because some insulting usenet ass thinks I
should.
>
>> NOBODY as asked for test groups. Why should I carry groups nobody wants.
>> As the 14 year old says "I'm not interested in if my post gets to a
>> 'test' group, only if it gets to the group I want to subscribe to".
>
>>> So you block access to the groups mentioned and now moan about
>>> our new reader FAQ?
>
>> What I have done is what many people and businesses DO DO.
>
> Nope,
PROVE that all businesses do not block test groups.
> binary groups are sometimes blocked,
In many cases, along with anything else that is not connected with the
business.
> even if only to save
> disk space. It's a pitfall to conduct from your harsh nntp server
> regiment to others.
Sorry, but you are just wrong. I have set up many servers for businesses.
None have allowed everything all have required some sort of business case
for what groups are carried.
>
>>> You are joking,
>
>> Why should I, you're a big enough joke for me to have a laugh all day
>> long.
>
>>> please fix your broken config
>
>> There is nothing to fix. There is NO REQUIREMENT that I carry "test" and
>> NONE of the people that use the server have any desire to use test
>> groups. There is NO REQUIREMENT (and netiquette is NOT A REQUIREMET) that
>> I post test messages to test groups.
>
> None said so, our new reader FAQ is just asking people to use
> test groups for testing purpose,
And I said was "That is, IF your server caries test groups." What's wrong
with that?
> to help not annoying others in a
> regular group and to help preventing them looking like an idiot
> posting "test ,test" messages here. But alas, this seems over
> your head.
And if they don't have access to test groups? There IS NOTHING THAT
PROHIBITS POSTING TO NON-TEST GROUPS.
The fact of the matter is, there is NOTHING WRONG WITH me saying "That is,
IF your server caries test groups." Yet you chose to flame.
>
> [..]
>
>>> or ask someone who knows what he is doing.
>>>
>
>> Then I will not be asking YOU.
>
> Glad to hear. ;-)
>
Yes, I bet you are glad to hear you don't know what you are doing.
> You have no point, but started this flamewar,
How is saying "That is, IF your server caries test groups." Starting a flame
war? Guess you think anyone that dissages with your self richousnous is
starting a flame war.
> which is neither
> inventive nor funny, just pretty lame...
Then why do you continue? Guess you are just stupid.
>
Michael Heiming
>> You have no point, but started this flamewar,
> How is saying "That is, IF your server caries test groups." Starting a flame
> war? Guess you think anyone that dissages with your self richousnous is
> starting a flame war.
You were starting calling me names if you read back. Now it is of
course my fault, looks like anyone can be lucky not suffering for
your network regiment. ;)
Probably should have kill filed you right at the point you were
starting calling me names. Not uncommon for people hiding behind
an alias, because they are just not man enough to post with their
real name.
Good riddance
--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvp...@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 114: electro-magnetic pulses from French above
ground nuke testing.
matt_left_coast
> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.org>:
>> FAQ (bi-weekly) wrote:
>
>>> And if you
>>> really want to post "testing, testing" messages, post to the
>>> approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
>>> Those groups include at least:
>>>
>>> alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
>>>
>
>> That is, IF your server caries test groups.
>
> $ grep -c test /var/spool/news/leaf.node/groupinfo
> 177
>
> Get a better ISP or/and nntp server.
>
After I have read your pitiful attempts to flame me, I have figure out that
you are trying to FORCE, using ridicule and attack, everyone to run their
news servers the way YOU would. That would be contrary to the freedom that
OSS stands for. You are free to run the systems the way YOU want, I am free
to run my systems the way I want, businesses are free to run their systems
the way THEY see fit. to insist that everyone carries the same groups would
deny then that freedom. Usenet does NOT require anyone to carry any
specific groups, to allow the people setting up the server FREEDOME of
choice in how they want to run that system and what groups they want to
carry.
I do hope you will learn to embrace rather than try to deny the freedome
people and businesses have to run their servers as they see fit.
I like many businesses run computer systems by the "if it is not explicitly
allowed, it is denied" philosophy. Until there is a reason to carry test
groups that make sense to me and my users, they will not be carried.
Objections to this by usenet assholes is not a reason to carry test groups
on my server.
matt_left_coast
> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.org>:
>> Michael Heiming wrote:
> [..]
>
>>> You have no point, but started this flamewar,
>
>> How is saying "That is, IF your server caries test groups." Starting a
>> flame war? Guess you think anyone that dissages with your self
>> richousnous is starting a flame war.
>
> You were starting calling me names if you read back. Now it is of
> course my fault,
Yes, it is. You want to harrase me into giving up my freedom to run my
server as I see fit, I will call you an ass.
> looks like anyone can be lucky not suffering for
> your network regiment. ;)
I wish I were lucky enough to not sufur your Attempts to badger me into
giving up my freedoms to carry the groups I see fit on MY SERVER.
>
> Probably should have kill filed you right at the point you were
> starting calling me names.
Wish you would have. I haven't seen anything of value from you yet.
> Not uncommon for people hiding behind
> an alias, because they are just not man enough to post with their
> real name.
I am using a REAL NAME WITH A LOCATION. Now I see you are a LIAR. My name IS
MATT. If you want to bitch about people not using real names, bitch at Bit
Twister.
>
> Good riddance
Yes, I Don't need liars like you around.
>
matt_left_coast
> You were starting calling me names if you read back.
You were the one that stated the insulting by saying "please fix your broken
config or ask someone who knows what he is doing." If you do not like
people starting to treat you like you treat them, don't start the
insulting.
Michael Heiming
> Michael Heiming wrote:
Nope, anyone can read through the thread and see that you
obviously started calling me "Dude" + "Get a clue.". In addition
guess the name "Matt" is pretty unique and you have permissions
from "NetIdentity" to use the domain chance.org?
Now at least you start getting funny. ;-)
--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvp...@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 132: SCSI Chain overterminated
matt_left_coast
> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.org>:
>> Michael Heiming wrote:
>
>>> You were starting calling me names if you read back.
>
>> You were the one that stated the insulting by saying "please fix your
>> broken config or ask someone who knows what he is doing." If you do not
>> like people starting to treat you like you treat them, don't start the
>> insulting.
>
> Nope, anyone can read through the thread and see that you
> obviously started calling me "Dude"
Dude is not an insult where I am from.
> + "Get a clue."
How is that "name calling?" The fact to the matter is, I AM NOT REQUIRED TO
CARRY ANY PARTICULAR NEWS GROUPS. If you can't understand that I have the
freedom to NOT carry any news groups I chose not to carry, then you
definitely need to GET A CLUE. That is simple REALITY, not an insult.
> . In addition
> guess the name "Matt" is pretty unique and you have permissions
> from "NetIdentity" to use the domain chance.org?
It is my REAL NAME. The fact that I USE MY REAL NAME when you said I did
not, makes you a LIAR. The fact that it is not unique, does not change the
fact that it is MY NAME thus making your claim about my name a LIE.
>
> Now at least you start getting funny. ;-)
>
Yes, I can see how you would think your attempts to intimidate people into
giving up there freedoms is funny. But I don't really care what a liar like
you thinks of me.
The technical points you make are INVALID.
matt_left_coast
Can anyone tell us why the FAQ does not contain ANY FAQ's?
matt_left_coast
> post to the
> approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
> Those groups include at least:
>
> alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
That is, of course IF you server carries .test groups. Not all servers do.
matt_left_coast
> Dude
Dude is like "mate", "buddy", "my friend"... It is NOT name calling.
Now, unless you can show where I or anyone else is REQUIRED to carry or
REQUIRED to post to test groups, you have NO JUSTIFIABLE reason to say I am
wrong or do not know what I am talking about.
Michael Heiming
> Michael Heiming wrote:
>> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.org>:
>>> Michael Heiming wrote:
>>
>>>> You were starting calling me names if you read back.
>>
>>> You were the one that stated the insulting by saying "please fix your
>>> broken config or ask someone who knows what he is doing." If you do not
>>> like people starting to treat you like you treat them, don't start the
>>> insulting.
>>
>> Nope, anyone can read through the thread and see that you
>> obviously started calling me "Dude"
> Dude is not an insult where I am from.
>> + "Get a clue."
> How is that "name calling?" The fact to the matter is, I AM NOT REQUIRED TO
> CARRY ANY PARTICULAR NEWS GROUPS. If you can't understand that I have the
> freedom to NOT carry any news groups I chose not to carry, then you
> definitely need to GET A CLUE. That is simple REALITY, not an insult.
None said you would be requiered to carry any newsgroup, the fact
remains you did restrict access on your private nntp server and
moan now about our new reader FAQ that it does ask people to make
their test in one of the hundreds of test ngs, specially designed
for this task.
Strange that none else posted he could not access test groups in
this thread beside you who restricted access to those on his own.
>> . In addition
>> guess the name "Matt" is pretty unique and you have permissions
>> from "NetIdentity" to use the domain chance.org?
> It is my REAL NAME. The fact that I USE MY REAL NAME when you said I did
> not, makes you a LIAR. The fact that it is not unique, does not change the
> fact that it is MY NAME thus making your claim about my name a LIE.
This is perhaps your first name, so what does it provide?
Nothing, your mail is invalid and it seems you don't have
permissions to use "chance.org". You don't seem to respect common
netiquette, but like to "prove" your strange logic onto others.
My condolences to the people under your network regiment!
PLONK
[..]
--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvp...@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 294: PCMCIA slave driver
Michael Heiming
> Bit Twister enlightened us with:
>> You might want to read this thread see what you are in for if you
>> chose to follow up to matt_left_coast.
> He's already in my killfile, with a score that's just not low enough
> to hide his posts. I do like his sparkling personality, especially
> when it comes to the sheer poetry he draws from Dan C.
Good idea, didn't saw your message. Should have done this
earlier, to save me from further annoyances ;-)
--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvp...@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 179: multicasts on broken packets
matt_left_coast
> None said you would be requiered to carry any newsgroup
Then my system is NOT BROKEN as you have claimed when you insulted me by
implying that I did not know what I was doing.
My system is a LEGITIMATE example of how PARENTS can RESTRICT access to
newsgroups to protect there children. The method they chose may be like the
method I used. Carry only what was asked for and only what was approved. In
that scenario many servers may be just like mine.
You have already shown that you are a liar by saying that I did not use my
real name. You also are a liar for saying that my system is broken because
I chose not to carry "test" I will not start carring "test" groups because
some usenet liar thinks I should give up my freedom to carry what ever
groups I want.
Dude, get a clue.
matt_left_coast
> In alt.os.linux Sybren Stuvel <sybr...@yourthirdtower.com.imagination>:
>> Bit Twister enlightened us with:
>>> You might want to read this thread see what you are in for if you
>>> chose to follow up to matt_left_coast.
>
>> He's already in my killfile, with a score that's just not low enough
>> to hide his posts. I do like his sparkling personality, especially
>> when it comes to the sheer poetry he draws from Dan C.
>
> Good idea, didn't saw your message. Should have done this
> earlier, to save me from further annoyances ;-)
>
You mean save you from facing the TRUTH! I have no problem if a liar like
you killfiles me.
matt_left_coast
> Netiquette 2006-04#1
Netiquette is NOT the same thing as FAQ. Why do you wrongfully call a
"Netiquette" document a FAQ?
Sybren Stuvel
>> I've never seen a server without any test group.
>
> If you were not trying to make a point or prove something with the
> above line, why post it?
I /was/ trying to make a point. I didn't want to prove anything. Where
did I say I didn't want to make a point?
Sybren Stuvel
> Translation, YOU CAN'T PROVE IT, so you try to make me look bad by
> saying there is something wrong with asking for PROOF. Get a clue
> boy, there is NOTHING WRONG WITH ASKING SOMEONE TO PROVE their
> claims.
LOL why would I need to prove to you that I've never seen something?
I've never seen an elephant in a pink T-shirt, but I sure can't prove
that.
> Then who the fuck cares what you have or have not SEEN?
There must be a lot of people, since you are the only one having a
problem with it.
> Why bother posting what you have not seen if NOT TO MAKE A POINT?
To make a point. Not all points require them to be proven. You can
also just take my word for it that I've never seen a Usenet server
without test groups.
Michael Heiming
Ops, changing mail address on the fly to circumvent kill files?
> Michael Heiming wrote:
>> None said you would be required to carry any newsgroup
> Then my system is NOT BROKEN as you have claimed when you insulted me by
> implying that I did not know what I was doing.
Don't care about what you have to say, you seem just another
socket puppet of some well known usenet terrorist.
Good bye
--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvp...@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 65: system needs to be rebooted
matt_left_coast
> In alt.os.linux matt_left_coast <n...@chance.mjt>:
>
> Ops, changing mail address on the fly to circumvent kill files?
>
>> Michael Heiming wrote:
>
>>> None said you would be required to carry any newsgroup
>
>> Then my system is NOT BROKEN as you have claimed when you insulted me by
>> implying that I did not know what I was doing.
>
> Don't care about what you have to say,
Wow, the keeper of the alt.os.linux FAQ Not caring what people that have
input to the FAQ have to say. How un-OSS of you.
> you seem just another
> socket puppet of some well known usenet terrorist.
Wow, how un-OSS of you. Someone tries to discuss the FAQ you post and you
call then a "socket puppet of some well known usenet terrorist." You should
be ashamed. You should be willing to accept and encourage discussion of the
FAQ you post. That is, IF your motive was inform and not to INFLICT your
views on others.
>
> Good bye
>
Let's hope you MEAN IT THIS TIME.
C
matt_left_coast
> matt_left_coast enlightened us with:
>>> I've never seen a server without any test group.
>>
>> If you were not trying to make a point or prove something with the
>> above line, why post it?
>
> I /was/ trying to make a point.
Then I ASK AGAIN, what does it PROVE?
> I didn't want to prove anything.
Then WHAT point were you trying to make????
> Where
> did I say I didn't want to make a point?
I don't know. I can't figure out what point you were trying to make. You
trying to say that because you have not seen something we should CARE? What
you have seen or not seen is of no concern to me.
>
> Sybren
matt_left_coast
> matt_left_coast enlightened us with:
>> Translation, YOU CAN'T PROVE IT, so you try to make me look bad by
>> saying there is something wrong with asking for PROOF. Get a clue
>> boy, there is NOTHING WRONG WITH ASKING SOMEONE TO PROVE their
>> claims.
>
> LOL why would I need to prove to you that I've never seen something?
Because you made that claim.
> I've never seen an elephant in a pink T-shirt, but I sure can't prove
> that.
I'm still trying to figure out why you would think anyone would care if you
have never seen a server without test groups. What was the point of your
post?
JUST HOW MANY USENET SERVERS HAVE YOU SEEN?
>
>> Then who the fuck cares what you have or have not SEEN?
>
> There must be a lot of people, since you are the only one having a
> problem with it.
Eh, nobody cares enough about what YOU claim to respond so that means they
care? What kind of idiotic logic is THAT?
>
>> Why bother posting what you have not seen if NOT TO MAKE A POINT?
>
> To make a point.
What POINT?
> Not all points require them to be proven.
But what point were you trying to make? that you have not seen an elephant
in a pink t-shirt, WHO THE FUCK CARES?
> You can
> also just take my word for it that I've never seen a Usenet server
> without test groups.
Fine, Unless you can prove that you have seen them all, what you have "seen"
is MEANINGLESS AND MAKES NO POINT.
>
> Sybren
Dan C
>> Note, matt_left_coast has set up his local pc without a test group
>> and used it as proof of _a server_ without test groups.
LOL!
> No, it is used to limit access to sex groups (among other things) by under
> aged children. I would recommend anyone that has under aged children that
> use the internet do the same (you? would you recommend the parents just
> give full usenet access to there 8 year old?).
How many 8 year olds use Usenet, you ignorant fuck?
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
matt_left_coast
> On Wed, 03 May 2006 09:47:28 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>
>>> Note, matt_left_coast has set up his local pc without a test group
>>> and used it as proof of _a server_ without test groups.
>
> LOL!
>
>> No, it is used to limit access to sex groups (among other things) by
>> under aged children. I would recommend anyone that has under aged
>> children that use the internet do the same (you? would you recommend the
>> parents just give full usenet access to there 8 year old?).
>
> How many 8 year olds use Usenet, you ignorant fuck?
>
At least 1. He wanted it because his older brother got it. He looks at it
and clicks around. He thinks it make him feel grown up.
Dan C
>>> No, it is used to limit access to sex groups (among other things) by
>>> under aged children. I would recommend anyone that has under aged
>>> children that use the internet do the same (you? would you recommend the
>>> parents just give full usenet access to there 8 year old?).
>> How many 8 year olds use Usenet, you ignorant fuck?
> At least 1. He wanted it because his older brother got it. He looks at it
> and clicks around. He thinks it make him feel grown up.
Ahhh, so he does it for the same reasons you do.
I'm assuming he's related to you, so that explains things.
matt_left_coast
> On Thu, 04 May 2006 19:07:25 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>
>>>> No, it is used to limit access to sex groups (among other things) by
>>>> under aged children. I would recommend anyone that has under aged
>>>> children that use the internet do the same (you? would you recommend
>>>> the parents just give full usenet access to there 8 year old?).
>
>>> How many 8 year olds use Usenet, you ignorant fuck?
>
>> At least 1. He wanted it because his older brother got it. He looks at it
>> and clicks around. He thinks it make him feel grown up.
>
> Ahhh, so he does it for the same reasons you do.
>
Yeah, next to you EVERYONE looks grown up.
> I'm assuming he's related to you, so that explains things.
Yes, that would explain why he is smarter than you. He also does not lie
about being able to use a killfile, and he does not lie about turning over
a new leaf. All and all, he is far more mature and honest than you.
>
Dan C
>>>> How many 8 year olds use Usenet, you ignorant fuck?
>>> At least 1. He wanted it because his older brother got it. He looks at it
>>> and clicks around. He thinks it make him feel grown up.
>> Ahhh, so he does it for the same reasons you do.
> Yeah, next to you EVERYONE looks grown up.
What a great comeback!
Maybe you could let him post a little, using your name, and we'll all see
if we can tell a difference. That would be fun!
matt_left_coast
> On Thu, 04 May 2006 20:22:11 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>
>>>>> How many 8 year olds use Usenet, you ignorant fuck?
>
>>>> At least 1. He wanted it because his older brother got it. He looks at
>>>> it and clicks around. He thinks it make him feel grown up.
>
>>> Ahhh, so he does it for the same reasons you do.
>
>> Yeah, next to you EVERYONE looks grown up.
>
> What a great comeback!
Not a comeback at all. Simply the truth.
SINNER
> FAQ (bi-weekly) wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell us why the FAQ does not contain ANY FAQ's?
Apparently Google is broken on your DNS server:
http://www.answers.com/faq&r=67
[...]
Modern Developments
Originally the term FAQ referred to the Frequently Asked Question itself,
and the compilation of questions and answers was known as a FAQ list or
some similar expression. Today "FAQ" is more frequently used to refer to
the list, and a text consisting of questions and their answers is often
called a FAQ regardless of whether the questions are actually frequently
asked (if asked at all). This is done to capitalize on the fact that the
concept of a FAQ has become fairly familiar online - documents of this
kind are sometimes called FAAQs (Frequently Asked and Anticipated
Questions).
[OF PARTICULAR NOTE TO THOSE THAT HAVE ISSUES WITH SEMANTICS]
In some cases _informative documents_ _not_ _in_ _the_ _traditional_
_FAQ_ _style_ _have_ _also_ _been_ _called_ _FAQs_, ...
[...]
There is your answer, have a nice day sweetie. Dont hate.
--
David
FAQ
New reader? Great! Welcome! Here's how to make best use
of this newsgroup and get yourself a slice of the best help
available. Now read on ...
TESTING YOUR CONNECTION
Errm, first a delicate point. Often users accessing a forum
like this for the first time don't realize that posts don't
show up immediately, certainly not for several minutes, and
maybe not for some hours. In the old days, it took as long
as the camel bearing the news took! So they tend to post
"test" messages. Please don't!
It really is a netiquette faux pas; it gets on the regulars'
nerves and will get you flamed. It's much like switching a
light switch on and off would get on the nerves of the people
in the room!
Just sit back and wait for the post to show up, or be subtle
enough to post something that at least looks like a sensible
post, not just a "hello, testing, testing"! And if you
really want to post "testing, testing" messages, post to the
approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
Those groups include at least:
alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
By all means, experiment and test - in the proper place.
YOUR POST
You may notice that we get many hundreds of posts a week here.
That's a lot of posts, and a lot of reading for the people
who read these groups, who, after all, are the people who are
going to answer your questions. So it's in your interest to
reduce the amount of reading they have to do. Often, you can
get an answer faster without posting your question at all!
Before you post, you should try:
a) Reading the manual for your system.
Some day you will encounter the phrase "RTFM", which stands for
"Read the Fine Manual" (except 'F' doesn't really stand for
"Fine"). If you ask someone a question and they tell you to
RTFM, it's an indication that you haven't done your homework
and you should look harder (or for the first time!) at the
material they indicate.
By the way, when these people use terminology like "read(2)",
they are referring to the man page in section 2 of the manual
which deals with the "read" command, and you would access this
page by the command "man 2 read", typed at a command line. Yes,
there is a command line. Let's not go through that just now ...
By the way, regular posters use a lot of acronyms. "BTW" means
"by the way", BTW. Try "The Jargon Lexicon" as reference:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/lexicon.html
b) Searching the archives.
Your question almost certainly has already been answered in the
past, because you are not alone in the universe! Other people
have used the same software as you. Other people have bought
the same hardware. Go here, fill in the search field with
likely words, hit return and see what comes up:
What? No answer? You're ET. Naw ... you need to practice using
search engines. Use words that are likely to get a response,
and repeat the search refining each time the keywords you use
until you get just the responses you want. It's a very good
idea to let "linux" be the first of them! For example
linux debian faq
should pull up references to this FAQ.
Still no success? OK. Then you're down to
c) Posting on the newsgroups.
To which newsgroup should you post?
A comprehensive overview of 159 Linux newsgroups:
http://www.linux.org/docs/usenetlinux.html
Don't ask why there are so many. Perhaps it's part of Linus's
"World domination" plan. Who knows? ;)
If you are unsure, try in comp.os.linux.misc or alt.os.linux
and with a little luck, some wizard will answer your question
or/and direct you to the proper place.
How should you post? Here is what the technical experts want
to see;
i) data, data and data, but not your impressions. That is,
no "narrative description" but instead an exact reproduction,
by copy and paste with the mouse, of each and every datum that
you are basing your ideas of what is going on on. Do not trust
yourself to type! Use the mouse. You will miss data of great
significance to others that will mislead (and annoy!) them,
such as a space, a capital letter, a digit instead of a
letter, etc. etc.
ii) This is already implied by the above, but include debug
logs or/and full error messages (repeat, the originals, not
hand copies). Do not "attach" them! Include them in-line
in the text because people need to see them simultaneously
with your commentary, and in the context of your narrative.
Post a reasonable amount of those logs (rows <= 25). You'll
ease up things if you include which distro you are running,
if unsure 'cat /etc/*release', 'cat /etc/*version' or/and
'lsb_release -d' should tell (most distro).
ii) Again, this got implied above, but it's worth emphasizing.
Use ASCII (text) only! Don't use HTML or add any vcards or
alike. Please use a maximum line width of 65-72 (characters),
except where the log line or error message you quote is longer
(it shouldn't usually be), in which case preserve it exactly
in preference to confusing the issue by adding your own line
breaks, no matter how long it is.
How would such a beast look like? Go to:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search - Cut&Paste into
"Message ID": uViCr8LlbtmJ-pn2-j4FfJwqUgJxj@poblano + hit return.
USEFUL SUBJECTS
The Subject: line of an article is what will first attract
people to read it. If it's vague or doesn't describe what's
contained within, no one will read the article. They have
better things to do with their lives.
However, Subject: lines that're too wordy tend to be irritating.
For example:
Good Subject:
"xinetd failure Mandriva 10.1, error:"cps time argument
not a number"
Good Subject:
"bind 9.2 FC 3 fails to cache multiple cnames"
Bad Subject:
"Can't dial to Internet!!! Pulling my hair apart,
nothing works! HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Bad Subject:
"HELP!!!! Ftp doesn't work for me at all, how come
!?!?!"
Simply put, try to think of what will best help the reader
when he or she encounters your article in a newsreading
session. Also think about who you want to answer. Do you want
a psychiatrist? No? Then avoid "HELP !!!!" as a subject
line. If you want an expert in oracle databases, then post
"oracle vX.Y on Suse SLES 9. How assign passwd?".
And don't forget - the subject line is NOT part of the article,
no more than the title of a newspaper article is part of
the newspaper article. So don't be shy about repeating the
subject in the article as the first line. It costs you a cut
and paste with the mouse, and saves everyone else an "eh,
what's 'e on about"? Not everyone reads the subject before
reading the article, and even those who do may only be able
to see the first 40 characters or so of your elegant title.
CROSS-POSTING
This is a bit boring, but you really do want to know this.
Put it down in your "advanced posting techniques" file.
Let's go ... Now, the "Newsgroups:" line on your posting isn't
limited to containing just one group; an article can be posted
in a list of groups. For instance, the line
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
posts the article to both the groups alt.os.linux and
comp.os.linux.setup at the same time. More accurately, it
makes the same article accessible from both these different
newsgroups. This is called "cross-posting". It's usually safe
to cross-post to up to three or four groups. To list more than
that is considered excessive and annoying and will earn you
some heat. Let's not get into why. But it's not as annoying as
"multi-posting", which is posting copies of the same article
to several different newsgroups, and you should more readily
be able to imagine why that's likely to win you undying flames.
Anyway, to summarize, cross-posting is infinitely better than
multi-posting, but don't cross-post to more than three or
so groups.
It's strongly suggested that when an article is cross-posted
then a "Followup-To:" header field be included. It should
name the group to which all additional discussion should be
directed to. For the above example, this might be:
Followup-To: comp.os.linux.setup
which would make all followups automatically be posted to
just comp.os.linux.setup, rather than both alt.os.linux and
comp.os.linux.setup.
Why would anyone be cross-posting (or multi-posting, owww!) in
the first place? Presumably because that way they think
they'll get a bigger audience and therefore more answers.
Unfortunately, this is on the way to being about as clever
thinking as posting a spam mail to the whole of hong kong
asking for help with the problem would be. Enough said?
How far along the way on that particular road to infamy you
get depends on whether you cross-posted or multi-posted, and
how many groups you did it to, and whether you at least set
a Followup-To. If in doubt, don't do it at all. And if you're
reading this, you are in doubt, so please don't!
REPLYING & QUOTING & TRIMMING
When following up to an article, many newsreaders provide the
facility to quote the original article with each line prefixed
by > , as in
In article <12...@foo.bar.com>, sha...@foo.bar.com wrote:
>> I think that basketweaving's really catching on, particularly
>> in Pennsylvania. Here's a list of every person in PA that
>> currently engages in it publicly: [..]
This example began to quote a horribly long article, but broke
off and indicated the missing text with ellipses "[..]". That's
excellent posting technique! I.e.
When you quote another person, edit out whatever isn't
directly relevant to understanding your reply.
Please, please, remember to do that.
This gives the reader of the new article a perfect idea of
exactly what points you were addressing. By including the
entire article, you'll only annoy your readers, assuming you
get any! Who knows what your "yes, I agree" is referring to
if you quote all 100 lines of the original text! Maybe you
are agreeing that hanging is too good for shoplifters. Maybe
you are agreeing that it's a good morning.
Now here's another part of good posting technique:
Always put your response below and between the quoted text!
That means, as you read through the text you are replying to
in your editor, you remove the bits you are not interested
in commenting on, then when you come to a bit you want to
comment on, you leave the relevant sentence in place, add an
empty line, and write your comment right below it, then leave
another empty line.
Then you carry on through the rest of the text. You
left the quote and your comment nicely framed and easily
comprehensible. Even more importantly, you let somebody new
come in and comment on your comment while keeping the framing
correct.
Why NOT "top post"? Well, here are some answers:
http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html
http://www.illuminated.co.uk/blog/archives/000409.html
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/brox.html
In this editor's opinion, you have to understand that you are
not writing a business letter to another company's lawyers,
which is about the only real life situation in which you will
affix the entire previous conversation to the end of your reply!
If you think so, then you are mistaking the nature of the medium
you are in - we likely already have access to your previous
post, thanks to the wonders of electronics, but we might not
be bothered to go and look at it or might have forgotten it
and its detail, so we appreciate a little orienting context in
just the right place, but please not the whole flipping thing.
MORE INFO
"What is Usenet?"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1/
"The Usenet Newbie Project"
http://tgos.org/newbie/index2.html
"Eric S. Raymond (ESR) & Rick Moen:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way?"
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
"Advanced Usenet Usage"
http://livinginternet.com/?u/ua.htm
"Netiquette Guidelines RFC1855"
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html
"Tips on USENET's comp.* Newsgroups"
http://www.andrewu.co.uk/clj.asp
"How to make killfiles for use with various newsreaders."
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
"What is a troll, what do they do, why do they do it, and
what can one do about them? (Anti Troll FAQ)"
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
"Google Groups users please read - Howto reply properly"
http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=14213
DISCLAIMER
This "FAQ" (published under GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE) has
been assembled/rewritten from various online sources, it does
not claim to be complete, see URLs above, just a quick start.
Special thanks for additional hints, that have been included to:
Bill Unruh, Bit Twister, Sybren Stuvel, Peter Karlsson,
Peter T. Breuer (Complete revision 03/2003), Moe Trin,
Stan Goodman and Rick Moen
Have a lot of fun...
Michael Heiming
--
If you can't avoid to drop me a mail, remove "www." and put my
first name before the @.
matt_left_coast
> FAQ (bi-weekly) wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell us why the FAQ does not contain ANY FAQ's?
Wow found ONE expmple? How long did you have to look? Here is a whole bunch
that say DIFFERENT!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&defl=en&q=define:FAQ&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
matt_left_coast
>> Can anyone tell us why the FAQ does not contain ANY FAQ's?
>
> Apparently Google is broken on your DNS server:
>
> http://www.answers.com/faq&r=67
Wow found ONE expmple? How long did you have to look? Here is a whole bunch
that say DIFFERENT!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&defl=en&q=define:FAQ&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Sorry, you lose again.
Dan C
>>> Can anyone tell us why the FAQ does not contain ANY FAQ's?
>> Apparently Google is broken on your DNS server:
>> http://www.answers.com/faq&r=67
> Wow found ONE expmple? How long did you have to look? Here is a whole bunch
> that say DIFFERENT!
Let's look carefully at what you've said here... First, you claim that
the FAQ doesn't contain ANY FAQ's. Second, you admit that he found ONE
example. Why are you lying in your original claim? You clearly and
unmistakeably lied, right there. See? Why do you lie?
matt_left_coast
> On Fri, 05 May 2006 18:44:05 -0700, matt_left_coast babbled:
>
>>>> Can anyone tell us why the FAQ does not contain ANY FAQ's?
>
>>> Apparently Google is broken on your DNS server:
>>> http://www.answers.com/faq&r=67
>
>> Wow found ONE expmple? How long did you have to look? Here is a whole
>> bunch that say DIFFERENT!
>
> Let's look carefully at what you've said here... First, you claim that
> the FAQ doesn't contain ANY FAQ's. Second, you admit that he found ONE
> example.
But NOT in the FAQ. He found one example that showed FAQ MIGHT be used for
something other than a FAQ
> Why are you lying in your original claim?
No, you just can not read.
> You clearly and
> unmistakeably lied, right there. See? Why do you lie?
>
What lie?
Try again, some day you may get something right. Even an 8 year old can do
better than YOU.
Dan C
>> You clearly and unmistakeably lied, right there. See? Why do you lie?
> Try again, some day you may get something right. Even an 8 year old can do
> better than YOU.
Another one. Quit lying. You cannot be trusted. You lie and twist
words. Next thing you know, you'll be shouting and screaming, and foaming
at the mouth.
Bit Twister
> On Fri, 05 May 2006 18:44:05 -0700, matt_left_coast babbled:
>> Wow found ONE expmple? How long did you have to look? Here is a whole bunch
>> that say DIFFERENT!
> Let's look carefully at what you've said here... First, you claim that
> the FAQ doesn't contain ANY FAQ's. Second, you admit that he found ONE
> example.
What is funny, matt_left_coast indicates my advice to use test groups
is a lie or is bad because not all sites have test groups.
matt_left_coast claimed one example is good enough to prove his point,
the server he is posting from.
Moe Trin has indicated giganews shows 1952 possible test groups.
So, 1952/1 = around 0.051%
Using his reply to Sinner, we see 1 in 27 samples, about a 3.7%
failure, or about 60 times better proof than mlc's, it still is not
enough to prove Sinner is correct.
Sad, so sad.
matt_left_coast
> On Fri, 05 May 2006 20:09:00 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>
>>> You clearly and unmistakeably lied, right there. See? Why do you lie?
>
>> Try again, some day you may get something right. Even an 8 year old can
>> do better than YOU.
>
> Another one. Quit lying. You cannot be trusted. You lie and twist
> words. Next thing you know, you'll be shouting and screaming, and foaming
> at the mouth.
>
What lie?
matt_left_coast
>> Let's look carefully at what you've said here... First, you claim that
>> the FAQ doesn't contain ANY FAQ's. Second, you admit that he found ONE
>> example.
>
> What is funny, matt_left_coast indicates my advice to use test groups
> is a lie or is bad because not all sites have test groups.
Show where I say it is a lie. I said the way you do it is condescending and
derogatory. I have also said that you have no idea if you are insulting a
newbie or if they do infact have test groups.
Unless you can show where I said your insults about test group posts is a
lie, you are, once again, spewing lies about me.
>
> matt_left_coast claimed one example is good enough to prove his point,
> the server he is posting from.
It is a legitimate use of a server, like it or not.
> Moe Trin has indicated giganews shows 1952 possible test groups.
But has shown NOTHING that says anyone MUST carry those groups.
> So, 1952/1 = around 0.051%
>
So. That is still no REQUIREMENT to carry them.
> Using his reply to Sinner, we see 1 in 27 samples,
Did you count all the ones in the link that Dan supplied? If you read the
post, it is almost imposible to find the paragraph Sinner quoted among all
the other stuff saying "FAQ" means Frequently asked questions! It's a riot!
> about a 3.7%
> failure, or about 60 times better proof than mlc's, it still is not
> enough to prove Sinner is correct.
Totally different. I have never claimed that there were no test groups. But
hey dealing with REALTY has never been the strong point of a persong that
ASSUMES (for no reason) that "share a folder" means "share the .kde" folder
which means share login. I have claimed that there is NO REQUIREMENT to
carry test groups. You, tin, sinner and Dan have never been able to
legitimately challenge that FACT.
>
> Sad, so sad.
Glad to see you understand just how awful your logic is.
Now just what does "share a folder" mean, again?
Sybren Stuvel
>> LOL why would I need to prove to you that I've never seen
>> something?
>
> Because you made that claim.
I never claimed anything, I presented a fact. That does not force me
into needing to prove the fact.
> JUST HOW MANY USENET SERVERS HAVE YOU SEEN?
About six, seven of them.
> Fine, Unless you can prove that you have seen them all, what you
> have "seen" is MEANINGLESS AND MAKES NO POINT.
Go study mathematics or something. Get some lectures in Logic. Let's
say there are 15 Usenet servers. If seeing the first 14 is completely
meaningless, then seeing one more is meaningless too, since the first
14 can not add any meaning, since they were meaningless. Or, seeing
them all together has a meaning, which means seeing 14 of the Usenet
servers must have meaning too.
Dan C
Right there above, where you said "an 8 year old can do better...".
That's a lie. Do you understand now?
Bit Twister
>> Let's look carefully at what you've said here... First, you claim that
>> the FAQ doesn't contain ANY FAQ's. Second, you admit that he found ONE
>> example.
>
> What is funny, matt_left_coast indicates my advice to use test groups
> is a lie or is bad because not all sites have test groups.
> Show where I say it is a lie.
From message id VMadneJYmKH...@rcn.net
"Bit lied when he said your test failed."
> I said the way you do it is condescending and
> derogatory. I have also said that you have no idea if you are insulting a
> newbie or if they do infact have test groups.
There you go again, trying to direct the thread away from Sinner's proof.
The point is you posted one truth, fine, someone else posts a truth, and you
try to blow it off with sarcasm.
> Unless you can show where I said your insults
There you go again with the personal attacks.
Now instead of a lie or bad advice, it's insults.
> about test group posts is a
> lie, you are, once again, spewing lies about me.
There you go again, playing the victim and guessing you are trying to
twist the conversation into show me where I said
"your insults about test group posts is a lie"
No, my point was, you said I lied. I have fed you your proof. You are
the one lying.
> matt_left_coast claimed one example is good enough to prove his point,
> the server he is posting from.
> It is a legitimate use of a server, like it or not.
Another attempt to direct conversation away from the point I made.
Sinner proved you wrong by proving 1 proof.
>> Moe Trin has indicated giganews shows 1952 possible test groups.
> But has shown NOTHING that says anyone MUST carry those groups.
Another attempt to direct conversation away from Sinner's proof.
It is more FUD dragged in by you trying to justify your rant.
>> So, 1952/1 = around 0.051%
> So. That is still no REQUIREMENT to carry them.
Another attempt to direct conversation away from Sinner's proof.
You response has nothing to do with Sinner's proof.
> Using his reply to Sinner, we see 1 in 27 samples,
> Did you count all the ones in the link that Dan supplied? If you read the
> post, it is almost imposible to find the paragraph Sinner quoted among all
> the other stuff saying "FAQ" means Frequently asked questions!
Yet more FUD, "it is _almost imposible_ to find the paragraph Sinner quoted".
That is a pretty lame attempt to discredit Sinner's proof.
> It's a riot!
Now you resort to yet more sarcasm. It is fine when you use humor, but I
cannot use humor to provide test group advice.
>> about a 3.7% failure, or about 60 times better proof than mlc's, it
>> still is not enough to prove Sinner is correct.
> Totally different. I have never claimed that there were no test groups.
More misdirection/garbage injection. We are not discussing what you
/never claimed/.
The point is, your claim that the Original Post is not a FAQ and
Sinner's provided proof makes your claim/rant null and void using
your rules of engagement.
> But hey dealing with REALTY has never been the strong point of a
> persong
Seem to me you are having a REALITY moment in this thread.
<deleted yet another lame attempt to start another flame war and direct
attention away from Sinner's proof>
We can now put up a headstone over the hole you dug for yourself.
matt_left_coast
> matt_left_coast enlightened us with:
>>> LOL why would I need to prove to you that I've never seen
>>> something?
>>
>> Because you made that claim.
>
> I never claimed anything, I presented a fact.
Presenting a fact IS CLAIMING SOMETHING. What VALUE is that fact?
> That does not force me
> into needing to prove the fact.
If you want it to be accepted as a fact, you do.
>
>> JUST HOW MANY USENET SERVERS HAVE YOU SEEN?
>
> About six, seven of them.
SEEN? Actually SEEN? Or just USED? My bet is that you have only USED 6 all
of them being the same CLASS of server, an ISP account. I am guessing that
you have never set up an NNTP server for a company that truly wants to
limit access to undesirable groups and runs their shop in a "what is not
explicitly approved is denied" fashion, not have seen a server set up in
that environment.
>
>> Fine, Unless you can prove that you have seen them all, what you
>> have "seen" is MEANINGLESS AND MAKES NO POINT.
>
> Go study mathematics or something. Get some lectures in Logic. Let's
> say there are 15 Usenet servers.
Now you are trying to use an unrealistic number?
> If seeing the first 14 is completely
> meaningless, then seeing one more is meaningless too, since the first
> 14 can not add any meaning, since they were meaningless. Or, seeing
> them all together has a meaning, which means seeing 14 of the Usenet
> servers must have meaning too.
Dude, YOU need to take a lesson in logic. Seeing the first 14 does not mean
the 15th WOULD BE CONFIGURED THE SAME.
Again, I ask, What value is your "fact"?
>
> Sybren
matt_left_coast
> On Fri, 05 May 2006 22:11:55 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>
>>>>> You clearly and unmistakeably lied, right there. See? Why do you
>>>>> lie?
>
>>>> Try again, some day you may get something right. Even an 8 year old can
>>>> do better than YOU.
>
>>> Another one. Quit lying. You cannot be trusted. You lie and twist
>>> words. Next thing you know, you'll be shouting and screaming, and
>>> foaming at the mouth.
>
>> What lie?
>
> Right there above, where you said "an 8 year old can do better...".
> That's a lie. Do you understand now?
>
There is not lie there.
matt_left_coast
> From message id VMadneJYmKH...@rcn.net
> "Bit lied when he said your test failed."
>
That is a lie. It does not change if you lie using "humor".
The fact of the matter is, a FAQ is for Frequently Asked QUESTIONS. Not to
serve as a manifesto for thought police like YOU.
OSS is about FREEDOM.
A user ( or business ) has every right to set up there NNTP server they way
they want as long as they stay within the requirements if the RFC's. There
is NO requirement that "test" groups be carried. Unless you are about
taking away FREEDOME, then you have NO LEGITIMATE beef against people who's
servers do not carry "test" groups. In fact, unless you have seen some
documented evidence, you have NO IDEA how many people have actually
exercised their FREEDOM to configure their system without "test" groups. If
you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with FREEDOM. If that
is the case then OSS may not be the right software for you.
There is also NO _REQUIREMENT_ that people post test messages to test
groups. Since it is COMPLETELY legitimate that a server NOT carry test
groups and there is NO REQUIREMENT to post test messages to be posted to
"test" groups. The poster has every RIGHT to post a "test" message to a
non-test group. The ONLY objections I have seen come from the usenet
thought police that think all usenet servers should carry test groups. I do
not accept thought police trying to make "netiquette" a REQUIREMENT. It is
NOT.
If you are truly into the freedom OSS provides, you would ACCEPT the fact
that people, heads of households and business (and make available to their
employees) are FREE TO CARRY THE NEWS GROUPS THEY SEE FIT. If you were
truly into the freedom OSS provides, you would accept that this means some
people may not have ACCESS to "test" groups. If this were the case, you
would not want to lie ( and you can lie using humor ) that their posts have
failed.
IF YOU TRULY WERE ABOUT GIVING OUT INFORMATION AND ALLOWING THE FREEDOM OSS
USERS VALUE, you would have no problem saying something like:
If you have access to them, it is considered polite to post test messages it
test groups.
That would put the posting of test messages in the true realm they belong. A
matter of being POLITE, NOTHING MORE.
Bit Twister
On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:36:36 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
> Bit Twister wrote:
>
>> From message id VMadneJYmKH...@rcn.net
>> "Bit lied when he said your test failed."
>>
>
> That is a lie.
Now you are lying. That is a quote from your post.
You demanded I show you where you said my advice was a lie.
I did it. It is a fact. You said it.
You are try to deny it and that is lying.
> It does not change if you lie using "humor".
That is more FUD injection by you trying to shore up your bogas claim I lied.
The advice is not a lie.
The definition of lie is
"verb lying, lied, lied
to say or write something which is not true in order to deceive someone:"
I was not trying to deceive anyone.
It is your hatred of me that makes you stalk me and attempt to discredit me.
> The fact of the matter is, a FAQ is for Frequently Asked QUESTIONS.
So now your position is Sinner's proof is a lie? Your so called /fact/
does not seem to match that of a dictionary. Definition of a fact
"noun
something which is known to have happened or to exist,
especially something for which proof exists,
or about which there is information:"
> Not to serve as a manifesto for thought police like YOU.
Your hatred of me is showing.
Now you are saying the Welcome to alt.os.linux document posted is a
thought police manifesto. That is just more of your emotional FUD
injected here in a lame attempt to justify your attacks.
> OSS is about FREEDOM.
More emotional FUD injected by you.
It has no bearing on providing newbies with information about test groups.
> A user ( or business ) has every right to set up there NNTP server they way
> they want as long as they stay within the requirements if the RFC's. There
> is NO requirement that "test" groups be carried.
I never said they were required to do so. You keep dragging in that
FUD to try to bolster your attacks.
> Unless you are about taking away FREEDOME, then you have NO
> LEGITIMATE beef against people who's servers do not carry "test" groups.
I never said I was taking away anything and I have no BEEF against
servers not carrying a test group.
You are injecting more emotional FUD trying to discredit me.
> In fact, unless you have seen some documented evidence, you have NO
> IDEA how many people have actually exercised their FREEDOM to
> configure their system without "test" groups.
Your constant ranting that not all servers have a test group has no
bearing on providing the newbie with the information about test groups.
> If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with
> FREEDOM. If that is the case then OSS may not be the right software for you.
Jeeze, I am truly at a loss for words on how far you have managed to
go in your pathetic attempt to discredit me.
> There is also NO _REQUIREMENT_ that people post test messages to test
> groups.
I did not make it a _REQUIREMENT_. You are dragging in that FUD to
justify your attack.
I provided the information that test groups were proved for people
doing testing.
> Since it is COMPLETELY legitimate that a server NOT carry test
> groups and there is NO REQUIREMENT to post test messages to be posted to
> "test" groups. The poster has every RIGHT to post a "test" message to a
> non-test group. The ONLY objections I have seen come from the usenet
> thought police that think all usenet servers should carry test groups. I do
> not accept thought police trying to make "netiquette" a REQUIREMENT. It is
> NOT.
>
> If you are truly into the freedom OSS provides, you would ACCEPT the fact
> that people, heads of households and business (and make available to their
> employees) are FREE TO CARRY THE NEWS GROUPS THEY SEE FIT. If you were
> truly into the freedom OSS provides, you would accept that this means some
> people may not have ACCESS to "test" groups.
My, my, Such a tantrum and quite a heroic attempt at trying to discredit me.
Your fantasy has painted me as
Thought Police with a Manifesto no less,
demanding where people post,
what admins must have on their servers,
and I am against freedom and Open Source Systems.
I have to say, those are a bunch of lying accusations about me.
> If this were the case, you would not want to lie
> ( and you can lie using humor )
More interjected fud trying to bolster your stupid rant.
> that their posts have failed.
There you are calling me a liar, yet again.
I was not deceiving anyone nor trying to deceive anyone.
You are lying.
> IF YOU TRULY WERE ABOUT GIVING OUT INFORMATION
Which I have and TRULY do
> AND ALLOWING THE FREEDOM OSS USERS VALUE,
jeeze, more emotional FUD, WHICH makes no sense what so ever.
> you would have no problem saying something like:
>
> If you have access to them, it is considered polite to post test messages it
> test groups.
So, all your rants, flames, lies, attacks, attempts at descrediting me,
attempted defamation of character is just your method of asking
that I change my test post reply.
You could have made your /suggestion/ a month ago.
> That would put the posting of test messages in the true realm they belong.
Yep, test post belongs in test group. Glad you agree.
> A matter of being POLITE, NOTHING MORE.
Shuckey Dern, did you know there is a word Usenet users coined for that.
It is called Netiquette not manifesto.
matt_left_coast
>>> From message id VMadneJYmKH...@rcn.net
>>> "Bit lied when he said your test failed."
>>>
>>
>> That is a lie.
>
> Now you are lying. That is a quote from your post.
> You demanded I show you where you said my advice was a lie.
> I did it. It is a fact. You said it.
> You are try to deny it and that is lying.
>
>
What you say in your Test post IS a lie and it is ANTI-OSS. Now take your
thought police attitude and go back to windows. You have no right to tell
me how to run my server OR how to post. As long as I follow the
REQUIREMENTS of usenet, Then I have a legitimate post. If you want POLITE,
you need to be POLITE to others and NOT INSULT with your condescending
humor that is nothing but LIES.
SINNER
> SINNER wrote:
>
>>> Can anyone tell us why the FAQ does not contain ANY FAQ's?
>>
>> Apparently Google is broken on your DNS server:
>>
>> http://www.answers.com/faq&r=67
>
> Wow found ONE expmple? How long did you have to look?
First item in a google search.
> Here is a whole
> bunch that say DIFFERENT!
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&defl=en&q=define:FAQ&sa=X&oi=glo
> ssary_definition&ct=title
>
> Sorry, you lose again.
How? I showed your definition is NOT the be all end all, sorry, you
lost.....again.
--
David
matt_left_coast
> * matt_left_coast wrote in alt.os.linux:
>
>> SINNER wrote:
>>
>>>> Can anyone tell us why the FAQ does not contain ANY FAQ's?
>>>
>>> Apparently Google is broken on your DNS server:
>>>
>>> http://www.answers.com/faq&r=67
>>
>> Wow found ONE expmple? How long did you have to look?
>
> First item in a google search.
>
And scroll past 6 FAQ=="frequently asked questions". A single unsupported
source, that is basically contradiced by everthing else on the page. Real
credible. About as credible as you.
But what does it REALLY say? It and a text consisting of questions says
"...and a text consisting of questions..." For the most part, Questions are
missing form the FAQ.
But does the paragraph state what it CLAIMS to be a "recent development" is
DESIRABLE? Does it state if it is the BEST OPTION? That is SHOULD NOT BE
DEBATED?
>> Here is a whole
>> bunch that say DIFFERENT!
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&defl=en&q=define:FAQ&sa=X&oi=glo
>> ssary_definition&ct=title
>>
>> Sorry, you lose again.
>
> How? I showed your definition is NOT the be all end all, sorry, you
> lost.....again.
>
One pathetic paragraph buried under a ton of stuff that says
"FAQ==frequently asked questions" doesn't make YOU right. Most
importantly, a single source that contradicts everyone else is hard to take
as a credible source.
Curt
> importantly, a single source that contradicts everyone else is hard to take
> as a credible source.
Can you apply this principle to yourself?
matt_left_coast
Yes, virtually every definition of FAQ I agrees with me, so I am right. It
is only the thought police here that have a problem with the definition of
FAQ.
Johan Lindquist
matt_left_coast was all like, "Dude,
> Curt wrote:
>> On 2006-05-09, matt_left_coast <n...@chance.mjt> wrote:
>>> importantly, a single source that contradicts everyone else is
>>> hard to take as a credible source.
>>
>> Can you apply this principle to yourself?
>
> Yes, virtually every definition of FAQ I agrees with me, so I am
> right. It
On the other hand, virtually every person on this planet and their
pets disagree with you almost every time you make a statement, so it
follows, logically, that you are never ever correct. Ever.
hth.
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
15:39:46 up 36 days, 2:33, 8 users, load average: 0.50, 0.13, 0.04
Linux 2.6.16.1 x86_64 GNU/Linux Registered Linux user #261729
matt_left_coast
> So anyway, it was like, 14:59 CEST May 09 2006, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
> matt_left_coast was all like, "Dude,
>> Curt wrote:
>>> On 2006-05-09, matt_left_coast <n...@chance.mjt> wrote:
>
>>>> importantly, a single source that contradicts everyone else is
>>>> hard to take as a credible source.
>>>
>>> Can you apply this principle to yourself?
>>
>> Yes, virtually every definition of FAQ I agrees with me, so I am
>> right. It
>
> On the other hand, virtually every person on this planet and their
> pets disagree with you almost every time you make a statement,
Get real. Some of the people in this group disagree, but what *I* see in the
REAL world contradicts them, and YOU. Since this group or even USENET does
not constitute even close "virtually every person on this planet and their
pets". Since your statement is obviously out of touch with reality I see no
reason to believe anything you say.
The thing is, when it comes to the WORLD, it DOES agree with me (as I have
shown by documentation). The people that do not agree with me are the
relatively few that are on usenet. But then again they think things like:
Sharing a folder means sharing the .kde folder which means of course
sharing a login. Or that they know what "glitches" happen on computers they
have never seen of used! When the usenet trolls' claims don't match the
"real world", I see no reason to believe them since they do not even come
close to representing "virtually every person on this planet and their
pets"
> so it
> follows, logically, that you are never ever correct. Ever.
I see a VAST difference between a list of relatively authoritative documents
and the claims of some losers on usenet. You really need to log off and
start living in the real world.
>
> hth.
>
Johan Lindquist
matt_left_coast was all like, "Dude,
[..]
>> On the other hand, virtually every person on this planet and their
>> pets disagree with you almost every time you make a statement,
>
> Get real. [..] Since your statement is obviously out of touch with
> reality I see no reason to believe anything you say.
That is, obviously, your prerogative.
> [list of things people disagree with "matt" about]
> [..] some losers on usenet. You really need to log off and start
> living in the real world.
Between the two of us, you are the only one who routinely reply more
than once to a single post, and more than 50% of the posts in this
single thread, so far, are from you alone. Going by the amount of time
you spend typing these rants up, I'm not even sure your definition
of the "real world" in your statement above is the same as that of
everyone else.
Either way, I just wanted to point out that you might have
misinterpreted the previous post by "Curt" about applying the
principle of credible sources to yourself, and that's what I've done,
so I'm leaving the last words to you. Enjoy.
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
16:18:34 up 36 days, 3:12, 7 users, load average: 0.77, 0.33, 0.11
matt_left_coast
> So anyway, it was like, 16:03 CEST May 09 2006, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
> matt_left_coast was all like, "Dude,
>> Johan Lindquist wrote:
>
> [..]
>
>>> On the other hand, virtually every person on this planet and their
>>> pets disagree with you almost every time you make a statement,
>>
>> Get real. [..] Since your statement is obviously out of touch with
>> reality I see no reason to believe anything you say.
>
> That is, obviously, your prerogative.
I notice you snip the REASON I don't believe you. Your statement, like so
many here, are NONSENSE.
>
>> [list of things people disagree with "matt" about]
So, you think that someone that wants to share a folder wants to share a
login like those that disagree with me? It is not that they disagree with
me, it is that they are WRONG.
>
>> [..] some losers on usenet. You really need to log off and start
>> living in the real world.
>
> Between the two of us, you are the only one who routinely reply more
> than once to a single post,
And how does that prove me WRONG?
> and more than 50% of the posts in this
> single thread, so far, are from you alone.
And how does that prove me WRONG?
> Going by the amount of time
> you spend typing these rants up, I'm not even sure your definition
> of the "real world" in your statement above is the same as that of
> everyone else.
That is my point. Your claim that "virtually every person on this planet and
their pets" disagrees with me when the only evidence is usenet posts shows
that you defiantly have the idea that the "every person on this planet"
posts to usenet. This of course is NONSENS.
>
> Either way, I just wanted to point out that you might have
> misinterpreted the previous post by "Curt" about applying the
> principle of credible sources to yourself,
If you could dissuss the issue in realistic terms, I would be willing to
listen. Till then, you're just another troll that can't make a legitimate
point.
> and that's what I've done,
> so I'm leaving the last words to you. Enjoy.
>
Good, no more "everyone in the world" posts to usenet BS from you.
Bit Twister
> Your statement, like so many here, are NONSENSE.
Yep, I can agree with you there because most of them are your nonsense
statements.
> So, you think that someone that wants to share a folder wants to share a
> login like those that disagree with me?
See, another nonsensical statement in an attempt to
change the fact you lost another argument. We see you dragging in
disinformation about me and applied it to everyone disagreeing with
you. Pure nonsense being speweed by you.
> It is not that they disagree with me, it is that they are WRONG.
More lies trying to hide the fact that using your rules, your
arguement is null because Sinner's proof negates your proof.
>> and more than 50% of the posts in this
>> single thread, so far, are from you alone.
>
> And how does that prove me WRONG?
Because you know you failed to prove your point and keep dragging in
more nonsense Just like your lame folder argument.
> That is my point. Your claim that "virtually every person on this planet and
> their pets" disagrees with me when the only evidence is usenet posts shows
> that you defiantly have the idea that the "every person on this planet"
> posts to usenet. This of course is NONSENS.
That is one pathetic attempt to hid the fact no one has yet to stand up
with you, in your argument.
> If you could dissuss the issue in realistic terms, I would be willing to
> listen.
Hahaha. You seem to get quite deaf when provide with facts and/or
proof.
You argue bitterly when you have a /technically/ correct point but cry
foul when a /technically/ correct point is used against you.
You claim if there is one exception then the advice is not 100%
correct so it must be WRONG.
Now when Sinner's provides ONE PROOF, you now /claim/ OVERWHELMING PROOF
your are correct.
> Till then, you're just another troll that can't make a legitimate
> point.
Now there is the telling statement which describes you to a T.
SINNER
> One pathetic paragraph buried under a ton of stuff that says
> "FAQ==frequently asked questions" doesn't make YOU right.
It was the answer to your question. You asked, why are there no FAQ's in
the FAQ. I showed you in a 2 second search WHY that was the case. I was not
wrong, your inability to accept multiple definitions is pathetic.
--
David
matt_left_coast
No, you have shown that people us FAQ for OTHER than FAQ, not why. To do
something just because someone ELSE has is IDIOTIC, thus expected from you.
the fact of the matter is, just because someone else has done something
does not make it RIGHT and is not a good reason.
matt_left_coast
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 07:53:22 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>
>> Your statement, like so many here, are NONSENSE.
>
> Yep, I can agree with you there because most of them are your nonsense
> statements.
Coming from a person that ASSUMES that "share a folder" means "share the
".kde directory" a totally unsupportable assumption, then makes another
totally UNSUPPORTABLE assumption to think that because they want to
share .kde they want to share logins, I see no reason to accept your
version of NONSENSE!
>
>> So, you think that someone that wants to share a folder wants to share a
>> login like those that disagree with me?
>
> See, another nonsensical statement in an attempt to
> change the fact you lost another argument. We see you dragging in
> disinformation about me and applied it to everyone disagreeing with
> you. Pure nonsense being speweed by you.
Not at all. I try to deal with the BS answers and EXCUSES people like YOU
spew.
>
>> It is not that they disagree with me, it is that they are WRONG.
>
> More lies trying to hide the fact that using your rules, your
> arguement is null because Sinner's proof negates your proof.
Not at all. Sinner's "logic" is that because someone else has done something
it is OK for us to do something. Even YOU should be old enough to to have
been taught that by your mommy.
>
>>> and more than 50% of the posts in this
>>> single thread, so far, are from you alone.
>>
>> And how does that prove me WRONG?
>
> Because you know you failed to prove your point and keep dragging in
> more nonsense Just like your lame folder argument.
>
ME? You have done nothing but NEGATE with out giving ANYTHING to support
WHY!
>
>> That is my point. Your claim that "virtuis the posts hereally every
person on this planet
>> and their pets" disagrees with me when the only evidence is usenet posts
>> shows that you defiantly have the idea that the "every person on this
>> planet" posts to usenet. This of course is NONSENS.
>
> That is one pathetic attempt to hid the fact no one has yet to stand up
> with you, in your argument.
That was his claim and I see nothing other than just another
BT-Auto-negation but nothing poring to an actual error.
>
>> If you could dissuss the issue in realistic terms, I would be willing to
>> listen.
>
> Hahaha. You seem to get quite deaf when provide with facts and/or
> proof.
Like your BT-auto-negations? Where is prof of ANYTHING you have said so far?
You have made CLAIMS, nothing more.
>
> You argue bitterly when you have a /technically/ correct point but cry
> foul when a /technically/ correct point is used against you.
WHAT TECHNICALLY CORRECT POINT? That someone else doing something is
JUSTIFICATION? that is just plain BS.
>
> You claim if there is one exception then the advice is not 100%
> correct so it must be WRONG.
No, I'm waiting for a definition that does not rely on the claim "well
someone else has done it so that justifies it".
>
> Now when Sinner's provides ONE PROOF, you now /claim/ OVERWHELMING PROOF
> your are correct.
>
But is it PROPER USE? Is it RIGHT?
>> Till then, you're just another troll that can't make a legitimate
>> point.
>
> Now there is the telling statement which describes you to a T.
Still assuming .kde? If you actually KNEW what you were talking about, I
might CARE what you think.
FAQ
New reader? Great! Welcome! Here's how to make best use
of this newsgroup and get yourself a slice of the best help
available. Now read on ...
TESTING YOUR CONNECTION
Errm, first a delicate point. Often users accessing a forum
like this for the first time don't realize that posts don't
show up immediately, certainly not for several minutes, and
maybe not for some hours. In the old days, it took as long
as the camel bearing the news took! So they tend to post
"test" messages. Please don't!
It really is a netiquette faux pas; it gets on the regulars'
nerves and will get you flamed. It's much like switching a
light switch on and off would get on the nerves of the people
in the room!
Just sit back and wait for the post to show up, or be subtle
enough to post something that at least looks like a sensible
post, not just a "hello, testing, testing"! And if you
really want to post "testing, testing" messages, post to the
approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
Those groups include at least:
alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
By all means, experiment and test - in the proper place.
YOUR POST
You may notice that we get many hundreds of posts a week here.
That's a lot of posts, and a lot of reading for the people
who read these groups, who, after all, are the people who are
going to answer your questions. So it's in your interest to
reduce the amount of reading they have to do. Often, you can
get an answer faster without posting your question at all!
Before you post, you should try:
a) Reading the manual for your system.
Some day you will encounter the phrase "RTFM", which stands for
"Read the Fine Manual" (except 'F' doesn't really stand for
"Fine"). If you ask someone a question and they tell you to
RTFM, it's an indication that you haven't done your homework
and you should look harder (or for the first time!) at the
material they indicate.
By the way, when these people use terminology like "read(2)",
they are referring to the man page in section 2 of the manual
which deals with the "read" command, and you would access this
page by the command "man 2 read", typed at a command line. Yes,
there is a command line. Let's not go through that just now ...
By the way, regular posters use a lot of acronyms. "BTW" means
"by the way", BTW. Try "The Jargon Lexicon" as reference:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/lexicon.html
b) Searching the archives.
Your question almost certainly has already been answered in the
past, because you are not alone in the universe! Other people
have used the same software as you. Other people have bought
the same hardware. Go here, fill in the search field with
likely words, hit return and see what comes up:
What? No answer? You're ET. Naw ... you need to practice using
search engines. Use words that are likely to get a response,
and repeat the search refining each time the keywords you use
until you get just the responses you want. It's a very good
idea to let "linux" be the first of them! For example
linux debian faq
should pull up references to this FAQ.
Still no success? OK. Then you're down to
c) Posting on the newsgroups.
To which newsgroup should you post?
A comprehensive overview of 159 Linux newsgroups:
http://www.linux.org/docs/usenetlinux.html
Don't ask why there are so many. Perhaps it's part of Linus's
"World domination" plan. Who knows? ;)
If you are unsure, try in comp.os.linux.misc or alt.os.linux
and with a little luck, some wizard will answer your question
or/and direct you to the proper place.
How should you post? Here is what the technical experts want
to see;
i) data, data and data, but not your impressions. That is,
no "narrative description" but instead an exact reproduction,
by copy and paste with the mouse, of each and every datum that
you are basing your ideas of what is going on on. Do not trust
yourself to type! Use the mouse. You will miss data of great
significance to others that will mislead (and annoy!) them,
such as a space, a capital letter, a digit instead of a
letter, etc. etc.
ii) This is already implied by the above, but include debug
logs or/and full error messages (repeat, the originals, not
hand copies). Do not "attach" them! Include them in-line
in the text because people need to see them simultaneously
with your commentary, and in the context of your narrative.
Post a reasonable amount of those logs (rows <= 25). You'll
ease up things if you include which distro you are running,
if unsure 'cat /etc/*release', 'cat /etc/*version' or/and
'lsb_release -d' should tell (most distro).
ii) Again, this got implied above, but it's worth emphasizing.
Use ASCII (text) only! Don't use HTML or add any vcards or
alike. Please use a maximum line width of 65-72 (characters),
except where the log line or error message you quote is longer
(it shouldn't usually be), in which case preserve it exactly
in preference to confusing the issue by adding your own line
breaks, no matter how long it is.
How would such a beast look like? Go to:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search - Cut&Paste into
"Message ID": uViCr8LlbtmJ-pn2-j4FfJwqUgJxj@poblano + hit return.
USEFUL SUBJECTS
The Subject: line of an article is what will first attract
people to read it. If it's vague or doesn't describe what's
contained within, no one will read the article. They have
better things to do with their lives.
However, Subject: lines that're too wordy tend to be irritating.
For example:
Good Subject:
"xinetd failure Mandriva 10.1, error:"cps time argument
not a number"
Good Subject:
"bind 9.2 FC 3 fails to cache multiple cnames"
Bad Subject:
"Can't dial to Internet!!! Pulling my hair apart,
nothing works! HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Bad Subject:
"HELP!!!! Ftp doesn't work for me at all, how come
!?!?!"
Simply put, try to think of what will best help the reader
when he or she encounters your article in a newsreading
session. Also think about who you want to answer. Do you want
a psychiatrist? No? Then avoid "HELP !!!!" as a subject
line. If you want an expert in oracle databases, then post
"oracle vX.Y on Suse SLES 9. How assign passwd?".
And don't forget - the subject line is NOT part of the article,
no more than the title of a newspaper article is part of
the newspaper article. So don't be shy about repeating the
subject in the article as the first line. It costs you a cut
and paste with the mouse, and saves everyone else an "eh,
what's 'e on about"? Not everyone reads the subject before
reading the article, and even those who do may only be able
to see the first 40 characters or so of your elegant title.
CROSS-POSTING
This is a bit boring, but you really do want to know this.
Put it down in your "advanced posting techniques" file.
Let's go ... Now, the "Newsgroups:" line on your posting isn't
limited to containing just one group; an article can be posted
in a list of groups. For instance, the line
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
posts the article to both the groups alt.os.linux and
comp.os.linux.setup at the same time. More accurately, it
makes the same article accessible from both these different
newsgroups. This is called "cross-posting". It's usually safe
to cross-post to up to three or four groups. To list more than
that is considered excessive and annoying and will earn you
some heat. Let's not get into why. But it's not as annoying as
"multi-posting", which is posting copies of the same article
to several different newsgroups, and you should more readily
be able to imagine why that's likely to win you undying flames.
Anyway, to summarize, cross-posting is infinitely better than
multi-posting, but don't cross-post to more than three or
so groups.
It's strongly suggested that when an article is cross-posted
then a "Followup-To:" header field be included. It should
name the group to which all additional discussion should be
directed to. For the above example, this might be:
Followup-To: comp.os.linux.setup
which would make all followups automatically be posted to
just comp.os.linux.setup, rather than both alt.os.linux and
comp.os.linux.setup.
Why would anyone be cross-posting (or multi-posting, owww!) in
the first place? Presumably because that way they think
they'll get a bigger audience and therefore more answers.
Unfortunately, this is on the way to being about as clever
thinking as posting a spam mail to the whole of hong kong
asking for help with the problem would be. Enough said?
How far along the way on that particular road to infamy you
get depends on whether you cross-posted or multi-posted, and
how many groups you did it to, and whether you at least set
a Followup-To. If in doubt, don't do it at all. And if you're
reading this, you are in doubt, so please don't!
REPLYING & QUOTING & TRIMMING
When following up to an article, many newsreaders provide the
facility to quote the original article with each line prefixed
by > , as in
In article <12...@foo.bar.com>, sha...@foo.bar.com wrote:
>> I think that basketweaving's really catching on, particularly
>> in Pennsylvania. Here's a list of every person in PA that
>> currently engages in it publicly: [..]
This example began to quote a horribly long article, but broke
off and indicated the missing text with ellipses "[..]". That's
excellent posting technique! I.e.
When you quote another person, edit out whatever isn't
directly relevant to understanding your reply.
Please, please, remember to do that.
This gives the reader of the new article a perfect idea of
exactly what points you were addressing. By including the
entire article, you'll only annoy your readers, assuming you
get any! Who knows what your "yes, I agree" is referring to
if you quote all 100 lines of the original text! Maybe you
are agreeing that hanging is too good for shoplifters. Maybe
you are agreeing that it's a good morning.
Now here's another part of good posting technique:
Always put your response below and between the quoted text!
That means, as you read through the text you are replying to
in your editor, you remove the bits you are not interested
in commenting on, then when you come to a bit you want to
comment on, you leave the relevant sentence in place, add an
empty line, and write your comment right below it, then leave
another empty line.
Then you carry on through the rest of the text. You
left the quote and your comment nicely framed and easily
comprehensible. Even more importantly, you let somebody new
come in and comment on your comment while keeping the framing
correct.
Why NOT "top post"? Well, here are some answers:
http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html
http://www.illuminated.co.uk/blog/archives/000409.html
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/brox.html
In this editor's opinion, you have to understand that you are
not writing a business letter to another company's lawyers,
which is about the only real life situation in which you will
affix the entire previous conversation to the end of your reply!
If you think so, then you are mistaking the nature of the medium
you are in - we likely already have access to your previous
post, thanks to the wonders of electronics, but we might not
be bothered to go and look at it or might have forgotten it
and its detail, so we appreciate a little orienting context in
just the right place, but please not the whole flipping thing.
MORE INFO
"What is Usenet?"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1/
"The Usenet Newbie Project"
http://tgos.org/newbie/index2.html
"Eric S. Raymond (ESR) & Rick Moen:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way?"
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
"Advanced Usenet Usage"
http://livinginternet.com/?u/ua.htm
"Netiquette Guidelines RFC1855"
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html
"Tips on USENET's comp.* Newsgroups"
http://www.andrewu.co.uk/clj.asp
"How to make killfiles for use with various newsreaders."
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
"What is a troll, what do they do, why do they do it, and
what can one do about them? (Anti Troll FAQ)"
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
"Google Groups users please read - Howto reply properly"
http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=14213
DISCLAIMER
This "FAQ" (published under GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE) has
been assembled/rewritten from various online sources, it does
not claim to be complete, see URLs above, just a quick start.
Special thanks for additional hints, that have been included to:
Bill Unruh, Bit Twister, Sybren Stuvel, Peter Karlsson,
Peter T. Breuer (Complete revision 03/2003), Moe Trin,
Stan Goodman and Rick Moen
Have a lot of fun...
Michael Heiming
--
If you can't avoid to drop me a mail, remove "www." and put my
first name before the @.
matt_left_coast
> post to the
> approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
> Those groups include at least:
>
> alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
>
> By all means, experiment and test - in the proper place.
This assumes you have access to "test" groups. You should be aware that the
is NO usenet requirement to carry "test" groups and there is no usenet
REQUIREMENT that you post "test" messages to "test" groups. If you do have
access to "test" groups, it is considered polite to post "test" mesages to
the "test" groups.
Bit Twister
> FAQ (bi-weekly) wrote:
>
>> post to the
>> approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
>> Those groups include at least:
>>
>> alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
>>
>> By all means, experiment and test - in the proper place.
> This assumes you have access to "test" groups. You should be aware that the
> is NO usenet requirement to carry "test" groups
No one is _claiming_ it is. Your are _claiming_ this fake REQUIREMENT
in a pathetic attempt to continue your flame fest.
> and there is no usenet
> REQUIREMENT that you post "test" messages to "test" groups.
Son of a gun. You are correct. That is a netiquette suggestion.
> If you do have
> access to "test" groups, it is considered polite to post "test" mesages to
> the "test" groups.
Which is what the
"By all means, experiment and test - in the proper place."
indicates.
Bit Twister
> Bit Twister wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 09 May 2006 07:53:22 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>>
>>> Your statement, like so many here, are NONSENSE.
>>
>> Yep, I can agree with you there because most of them are your nonsense
>> statements.
>
>
> Coming from a person that ASSUMES that "share a folder" means "share the
> ".kde directory" a totally unsupportable assumption, then makes another
> totally UNSUPPORTABLE assumption to think that because they want to
> share .kde they want to share logins, I see no reason to accept your
> version of NONSENSE!
So, now you take issue with what/how I think as a reason to distract
from the presented facts.
>
> Not at all. I try to deal with the BS answers and EXCUSES people like YOU
> spew.
No, you deal BS out answers trying to bolster you lame excuse for the
use of test groups.
>
> Not at all. Sinner's "logic" is that because someone else has done something
> it is OK for us to do something. Even YOU should be old enough to to have
> been taught that by your mommy.
More of your BS excuses. You made a CLAIM about what a FAQ is.
Sinner posted proof negating your _claim_.
Now you are spewing nonsence about /Sinner's logic/
No logic was provided. Sinner provied PROOF your _CLAIM_ on the
definition of what a FAQ can be is WRONG.
>>
>> Now when Sinner's provides ONE PROOF, you now /claim/ OVERWHELMING PROOF
>> your are correct.
>>
>
> But is it PROPER USE? Is it RIGHT?
You made a claim, proof was provide, you are wrong.
Now you want argue _proper use_, that is just more BS.
It is yet another lame try at trying to divert attention away from the
fact you have no grounds for complaint for suggesting the use of test
groups for test posts.
matt_left_coast
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 16:20:23 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>> FAQ (bi-weekly) wrote:
>>
>>> post to the
>>> approved test group next door or above in the news hierarchy.
>>> Those groups include at least:
>>>
>>> alt.test gnu.gnusenet.test misc.test
>>>
>>> By all means, experiment and test - in the proper place.
>
>
>> This assumes you have access to "test" groups. You should be aware that
>> the is NO usenet requirement to carry "test" groups
>
> No one is _claiming_ it is. Your are _claiming_ this fake REQUIREMENT
> in a pathetic attempt to continue your flame fest.
I am "giving out information". It is TRUE, the above ASSUMES that people
have access to test groups. It is also true that there is no REQUIREMENT to
carry "test" groups.
I will now add one more:
There is NO REQUIREMENT that you use "test" groups EVEN IF YOU HAVE ACCESS
TO THEM.
>
>> and there is no usenet
>> REQUIREMENT that you post "test" messages to "test" groups.
>
> Son of a gun. You are correct. That is a netiquette suggestion.
Yes, as soon as it becomes a SUGGESTION.
>
>> If you do have
>> access to "test" groups, it is considered polite to post "test" mesages
>> to the "test" groups.
>
> Which is what the
> "By all means, experiment and test - in the proper place."
> indicates.
And if they DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO TEST GROUPS? How would they know WHERE to
post? I was just GIVING OUT INFORMATION. If you have a problem with that,
it is YOUR problem.
It is a simple fix, just put "if you have access to test groups, it is
considered polite to post test messages to the test groups." I see no
reason why you would have such a tizzy over this.
matt_left_coast
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 15:58:49 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>> Bit Twister wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 09 May 2006 07:53:22 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>>>
>>>> Your statement, like so many here, are NONSENSE.
>>>
>>> Yep, I can agree with you there because most of them are your nonsense
>>> statements.
>>
>>
>> Coming from a person that ASSUMES that "share a folder" means "share the
>> ".kde directory" a totally unsupportable assumption, then makes another
>> totally UNSUPPORTABLE assumption to think that because they want to
>> share .kde they want to share logins, I see no reason to accept your
>> version of NONSENSE!
>
> So, now you take issue with what/how I think as a reason to distract
> from the presented facts.
I see reason to doubt you can distinguish fact from fiction. It is NOT an
attempt to distract, it is a reason to DOUBT your claims.
>
>>
>> Not at all. I try to deal with the BS answers and EXCUSES people like YOU
>> spew.
>
> No, you deal BS out answers trying to bolster you lame excuse for the
> use of test groups.
Just because YOU say it is BS does not make it so.
>
>>
>> Not at all. Sinner's "logic" is that because someone else has done
>> something it is OK for us to do something. Even YOU should be old enough
>> to to have been taught that by your mommy.
>
> More of your BS excuses. You made a CLAIM about what a FAQ is.
Yes, I do.
> Sinner posted proof negating your _claim_.
No, it did NOT. Infact the first 6 items SUPPORTED my claim.
> Now you are spewing nonsence about /Sinner's logic/
> No logic was provided. Sinner provied PROOF your _CLAIM_ on the
> definition of what a FAQ can be is WRONG.\
>
Can, not IS? What bull shit.
The paragraph was NOT A DEFINITION. It was a statement about how FAQ's were
used but NOT IF IT WERE A LEGITIMATE USE. But that paragraph was NOT A
DEFINITION.
>
>>>
>>> Now when Sinner's provides ONE PROOF, you now /claim/ OVERWHELMING PROOF
>>> your are correct.
>>>
>>
>> But is it PROPER USE? Is it RIGHT?
>
> You made a claim, proof was provide, you are wrong.
So, you are saying that the current FAQ could be an IMPROPER USE of a FAQ?
That is just my point!
>
> Now you want argue _proper use_, that is just more BS.
In your ".kde" mind.
>
> It is yet another lame try at trying to divert attention away from the
> fact you have no grounds for complaint for suggesting the use of test
> groups for test posts.
What I see is hate and anger because I don't buy your "humor" excuses all
attempt to justify your condescending lies about a persons test posts. And
yes, "humor" can be used to lie.
Steve Welsh
> Johan Lindquist wrote:
>
>> So anyway, it was like, 14:59 CEST May 09 2006, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
>> matt_left_coast was all like, "Dude,
>>> Curt wrote:
>>>> On 2006-05-09, matt_left_coast <n...@chance.mjt> wrote:
>>>>> importantly, a single source that contradicts everyone else is
>>>>> hard to take as a credible source.
>>>> Can you apply this principle to yourself?
>>> Yes, virtually every definition of FAQ I agrees with me, so I am
>>> right. It
>> On the other hand, virtually every person on this planet and their
>> pets disagree with you almost every time you make a statement,
>
> Get real. Some of the people in this group disagree, but what *I* see in the
> REAL world contradicts them, and YOU. Since this group or even USENET does
> not constitute even close "virtually every person on this planet and their
> pets". Since your statement is obviously out of touch with reality I see no
> reason to believe anything you say.
>
> The thing is, when it comes to the WORLD, it DOES agree with me (as I have
> shown by documentation). The people that do not agree with me are the
> relatively few that are on usenet.
How the fuck do you work that one out? There are probably tens of
thousands ignoring your inane drivel. Unfortunately, this time you
touched a nerve with me!!
But then again they think things like:
> Sharing a folder means sharing the .kde folder which means of course
> sharing a login.
Eh?
Or that they know what "glitches" happen on computers they
> have never seen of used! When the usenet trolls' claims don't match the
> "real world", I see no reason to believe them since they do not even come
> close to representing "virtually every person on this planet and their
> pets"
>
>> so it
>> follows, logically, that you are never ever correct. Ever.
>
> I see a VAST difference between a list of relatively authoritative documents
> and the claims of some losers on usenet. You really need to log off and
> start living in the real world.
>
>> hth.
I have followed your posts for some little while now, and I would
suggest that you should either present yourself as a prime candidate for
something awarded by "DUBBYA" or alternatively go back to your shrink,
and continue the treatment.
Bit Twister
> I am "giving out information". It is TRUE, the above ASSUMES that people
> have access to test groups. It is also true that there is no REQUIREMENT to
> carry "test" groups.
Just more nonsence you are spewing, yet again. It does not matter about your
STUPID Requirement when informing people about test groups.
> I will now add one more:
>
> There is NO REQUIREMENT that you use "test" groups EVEN IF YOU HAVE ACCESS
> TO THEM.
Just more nonsense. NOBODY said there is a REQUIREMENT.
YOU are trying to inject it to make your point and it is nonsence. It
has nothing to do with informing people about the fact that there are
tests groups created for making test posts.
>
> Yes, as soon as it becomes a SUGGESTION.
It has always been a suggestion. Nobody has said it is a requirment or
demanded otherwise. You are the one TRYING to imply/suggest/bulldoze
the nonsensical supposed REQUIREMENT.
>
> And if they DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO TEST GROUPS?
Then the netiquette suggestion can not be used.
What is so hard for you to understand.
> How would they know WHERE to post?
Yep and by the same token, how would the newbie know to post to a test group
when one exits unless someone tells what to look for.
> I was just GIVING OUT INFORMATION. If you have a problem with that,
> it is YOUR problem.
Hahahaha, there you are playing the victim.
I give out the information, and you complain about me giving it, then
act all indignant like I attacked you.
You have the problem not me.
> It is a simple fix, just put "if you have access to test groups, it is
> considered polite to post test messages to the test groups." I see no
> reason why you would have such a tizzy over this.
And yet it is you creating the flame fest, now trying at playing the wonded
innocent voice of reason, with yet another lame attempt at trying to
redirect attention away from your flame against the topic of the thread.
You have called it a thought police manifesto and that it did not meet the
definition of a FAQ.
The facts are, YOU are trying to be the thought police and
Sinner's proof proved you are wrong.
Bit Twister
>
> Just because YOU say it is BS does not make it so.
Yet you have been trying to inject
/it is not a REQUIREMENT to carry test groups/
to it makes it seem like a someone said it was a requirment.
You have been screaming the BS over and over TRYING to make look like
a fact.
>
> What I see is hate and anger because I don't buy your "humor" excuses all
> attempt to justify your condescending lies about a persons test
> posts. And yes, "humor" can be used to lie.
Heheheh. More nonsense, libellous accusations, and attempts at
redirection away from your original flame against the thread topic.
matt_left_coast
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 17:05:39 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>
>> I am "giving out information". It is TRUE, the above ASSUMES that people
>> have access to test groups. It is also true that there is no REQUIREMENT
>> to carry "test" groups.
>
> Just more nonsence you are spewing, yet again. It does not matter about
> your STUPID Requirement when informing people about test groups.
I was just giving out information, you of all people should not have a
problem with that.
>
>> I will now add one more:
>>
>> There is NO REQUIREMENT that you use "test" groups EVEN IF YOU HAVE
>> ACCESS TO THEM.
>
> Just more nonsense. NOBODY said there is a REQUIREMENT.
then you should have no problem with me saying there is no requirement.
After all, I am just giving out information.
>
> YOU are trying to inject it to make your point and it is nonsence. It
> has nothing to do with informing people about the fact that there are
> tests groups created for making test posts.
I am just giving out information. You seem to have a problem that I post
accurate information.
>
>>
>> Yes, as soon as it becomes a SUGGESTION.
>
> It has always been a suggestion. Nobody has said it is a requirment or
> demanded otherwise. You are the one TRYING to imply/suggest/bulldoze
> the nonsensical supposed REQUIREMENT.
Then there should be no problem using wording that is more clear. like "if
you have access to 'test' groups, it is considered polite to post test
mesages to test groups." It is simple stuff.
>
>>
>> And if they DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO TEST GROUPS?
>
> Then the netiquette suggestion can not be used.
> What is so hard for you to understand.
Where, please provide a location where this is "suggested" in the FAQ.
>
>
>> How would they know WHERE to post?
>
> Yep and by the same token, how would the newbie know to post to a test
> group when one exits unless someone tells what to look for.
>
that is why it should be made clear that there are test groups BUT THEY MAY
NOT HAVE THEM ON THE SERVER. I have NEVER said you should not tell them
about test groups. That is your .kde assumption style again.
>> I was just GIVING OUT INFORMATION. If you have a problem with that,
>> it is YOUR problem.
>
> Hahahaha, there you are playing the victim.
No more than YOU were when you claim you were giving out information.
> I give out the information, and you complain about me giving it, then
> act all indignant like I attacked you.
>
I complain about you claiming something that is successful is a failure. I
complain about you giving out FALSE information.
> You have the problem not me.
your .kde thinking again.
>
>> It is a simple fix, just put "if you have access to test groups, it is
>> considered polite to post test messages to the test groups." I see no
>> reason why you would have such a tizzy over this.
>
> And yet it is you creating the flame fest, now trying at playing the
> wonded innocent voice of reason, with yet another lame attempt at trying
> to redirect attention away from your flame against the topic of the
> thread.
I just gave out information.
>
> You have called it a thought police manifesto and that it did not meet the
> definition of a FAQ.
It is and it does not. And the paragraph that sinner posts IS NOT A
DEFINITION of FAQ.
>
> The facts are, YOU are trying to be the thought police and
Oh, standing up to the thought police is BEING the thought police. More of
your .kde thinking again.
> Sinner's proof proved you are wrong.
Only to someone that would think "sharing a folder" means "sharing .kde".
The fact of the matter is, the paragraph Sinner posted IS NOT A DEFINITION.
matt_left_coast
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 17:15:29 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>>
>> Just because YOU say it is BS does not make it so.
>
> Yet you have been trying to inject
> /it is not a REQUIREMENT to carry test groups/
That IS THE TRUTH. Why are you getting so hostel because I make a TRUE
STATEMENT!
> to it makes it seem like a someone said it was a requirment.
That is your interpretation. But it does NOT change the FACT that the
statement you are objecting to IS THE TRUTH. Why are you so hostel over a
TRUE statement?
> You have been screaming the BS over and over TRYING to make look like
> a fact.
"it is not a REQUIREMENT to carry test groups"
IS A FACT.
Bit Twister
> Bit Twister wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 09 May 2006 17:15:29 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>>>
>>> Just because YOU say it is BS does not make it so.
>>
>> Yet you have been trying to inject
>> /it is not a REQUIREMENT to carry test groups/
>
> That IS THE TRUTH. Why are you getting so hostel because I make a TRUE
> STATEMENT!
It is your hostility about people telling newbies about test groups
and screaming nonsense implying it is not a requirement to have test
groups to which I am objecting.
> But it does NOT change the FACT that the statement you are objecting
> to IS THE TRUTH. Why are you so hostel over a TRUE statement?
I am not objecting to _The statement_. I am objected to you using that
nonsense to justify your attack on anyone trying to inform newbies of
test groups.
YOU are trying to direct everyone away from the fact you make up
lies, then inject nonsense to justify your accusations.
Then you try to squirm out of it by picking a sentence you injected
which has nothing to do with supporting your accusation.
Then you parrot it over and over to make it sound like it is a fact
bearing on the truth of your accusation. You are trying to deceive
people and that is lying. Over and over and over. . . .
>
>> You have been screaming the BS over and over TRYING to make look like
>> a fact.
>
>
> "it is not a REQUIREMENT to carry test groups"
>
> IS A FACT.
See, repeating your nonsense when it has no bearing on providing
newbies with information about using test groups for test posts.
You trying misdirection again and that is a FACT.
matt_left_coast
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 19:49:53 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>> Bit Twister wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 09 May 2006 17:15:29 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just because YOU say it is BS does not make it so.
>>>
>>> Yet you have been trying to inject
>>> /it is not a REQUIREMENT to carry test groups/
>>
>> That IS THE TRUTH. Why are you getting so hostel because I make a TRUE
>> STATEMENT!
>
> It is your hostility about people telling newbies about test groups
> and screaming nonsense implying it is not a requirement to have test
> groups to which I am objecting.
What hostility. I am simply stating a true statement. Newbies should be told
that there are test groups BUT they may not have access to them. If they
have no access to test groups there is nothing prohibiting them from
posting here.
Now, how is that hostel?
What ever your trip is, get a grip on your emotions, you are acting like you
are under personal attack when you are not.
Bit Twister
> Bit Twister wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 09 May 2006 17:05:39 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>>
>>> I am "giving out information". It is TRUE, the above ASSUMES that people
>>> have access to test groups. It is also true that there is no REQUIREMENT
>>> to carry "test" groups.
>>
>> Just more nonsence you are spewing, yet again. It does not matter about
>> your STUPID Requirement when informing people about test groups.
>
> I was just giving out information, you of all people should not have a
> problem with that.
Now you are trying to deceive again by lying.
You started out claiming I was lying.
Then it was the no requirement bullsh%#
Then it was me being condensing.
NOW it's you'r just providing information.
You are lying right and left now.
>
> then you should have no problem with me saying there is no requirement.
> After all, I am just giving out information.
LIAR, LIAR,...
>
> I am just giving out information. You seem to have a problem that I post
> accurate information.
repeating your lies yet again.
>
> Then there should be no problem using wording that is more clear. like "if
> you have access to 'test' groups, it is considered polite to post test
> mesages to test groups." It is simple stuff.
Listen to you lying even more.
Now with this "simple change" it is not a problem that there is no
requirement to have test groups or there is no requirement to post
test messages to test groups. What happened to your month of ranting
to support your bullSh%#. I'll tell you, It has all been lies in
feeble-minded attempts to discredit me with your libels accusations.
matt_left_coast
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 19:42:25 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>> Bit Twister wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 09 May 2006 17:05:39 -0700, matt_left_coast wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am "giving out information". It is TRUE, the above ASSUMES that
>>>> people have access to test groups. It is also true that there is no
>>>> REQUIREMENT to carry "test" groups.
>>>
>>> Just more nonsence you are spewing, yet again. It does not matter about
>>> your STUPID Requirement when informing people about test groups.
>>
>> I was just giving out information, you of all people should not have a
>> problem with that.
>
> Now you are trying to deceive again by lying.
> You started out claiming I was lying.
> Then it was the no requirement bullsh%#
> Then it was me being condensing.
> NOW it's you'r just providing information.
And just how are they exclusive of each other?
>
> You are lying right and left now.
This is what I have said:
"This assumes you have access to "test" groups. You should be aware that the
is NO usenet requirement to carry "test" groups and there is no usenet
REQUIREMENT that you post "test" messages to "test" groups. If you do have
access to "test" groups, it is considered polite to post "test" mesages to
the "test" groups."
There is NO lie there.
>>
>> then you should have no problem with me saying there is no requirement.
>> After all, I am just giving out information.
>
> LIAR, LIAR,...
The fact is, I am only giving out information. If you want to call me a
liar, please point out SPECIFIC lies.
>
>
>>
>> I am just giving out information. You seem to have a problem that I post
>> accurate information.
>
> repeating your lies yet again.
I have said there is no requirement that people post to test groups. That is
indeed information and I am giving it out. There is no lie.
>
>>
>> Then there should be no problem using wording that is more clear. like
>> "if you have access to 'test' groups, it is considered polite to post
>> test mesages to test groups." It is simple stuff.
>
> Listen to you lying even more.
What lie?
>
> Now with this "simple change" it is not a problem that there is no
> requirement to have test groups or there is no requirement to post
> test messages to test groups. What happened to your month of ranting
> to support your bullSh%#. I'll tell you, It has all been lies in
> feeble-minded attempts to discredit me with your libels accusations.
Nothing has happened, at least nothing has happened to me. But Bit, I
suggest you read your post and count how many times you ranted "liar" and
ask yourself "am I being adult by ranting Liar this many times?" Ask
yourself "am I accomplishing anything by ranting liar so many times?" Ask
yourself "am I being rational or am I just lashing out in anger?"
iforone
Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> Bit Twister enlightened us with:
> > You might want to read this thread see what you are in for if you
> > chose to follow up to matt_left_coast.
>
> He's already in my killfile, with a score that's just not low enough
> to hide his posts. I do like his sparkling personality, especially
> when it comes to the sheer poetry he draws from Dan C.
>
ROFLMAO... :-)