Having a lot of problems with 11.1 Open Suse
Ezechiele
my Philips SPC1000NC webcam. It stopped to work, and it worked fine with
11.0. Then my VirtualBox stopped to work, and it didn't work evev after I
had installed it again. Then I had problems with K3b, it didn't see one of
my two DVD burner. At last, my HP Laser Jet 1005 printer isn't working
anymore. All my hardware worked fine with 11.0 and still works fine with
Windows XP. Oh, I forgot to remember my wireless connection stopped to
work too, and it worked fine with 11.0. I start to think 11.1 is really
weird, and better I go back to 11.0. I hope next version will be better
than this 11.1.
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houghi
> Oh, I forgot to remember my wireless connection stopped to work too,
> and it worked fine with 11.0. I start to think 11.1 is really weird,
> and better I go back to 11.0. I hope next version will be better than
> this 11.1.
Why did you want to go with 11.1 in the first place? What did not work
with 11.0 that you thought would work in 11.1?
Just curious. I am still on 11.0 and am not even sure if I will go to
11.1 at all.
houghi
--
Filled with mingled cream and amber I will drain that glass again. Such
hilarious visions clamber Through the chambers of my brain -- Quaintest
thoughts -- queerest fancies Come to life and fade away; Who cares how
time advances? I am drinking ale today. -- Edgar Allan Poe
Ezechiele
> Ezechiele wrote:
>> Oh, I forgot to remember my wireless connection stopped to work too,
>> and it worked fine with 11.0. I start to think 11.1 is really weird,
>> and better I go back to 11.0. I hope next version will be better than
>> this 11.1.
>
> Why did you want to go with 11.1 in the first place? What did not work
> with 11.0 that you thought would work in 11.1?
>
> Just curious. I am still on 11.0 and am not even sure if I will go to
> 11.1 at all.
>
> houghi
Well, I hoped it was an improved version, else, following your reasoning,
I would have been using still the first version. And, of course, I
believed it had an improved kernel.
Francesco
houghi
> Well, I hoped it was an improved version, else, following your reasoning,
> I would have been using still the first version. And, of course, I
> believed it had an improved kernel.
Yes, but an improvement of what? And what would be wrong with still
working with the first version if that would do what you want it to do?
Ezechiele
> Ezechiele wrote:
>> Well, I hoped it was an improved version, else, following your
>> reasoning, I would have been using still the first version. And, of
>> course, I believed it had an improved kernel.
>
> Yes, but an improvement of what? And what would be wrong with still
> working with the first version if that would do what you want it to do?
>
> houghi
No, version 11.0 allowed me to use my webcam, and solved a lot of little
problems too. It was perfect for me, and I have been really stupid to
upgrade it.
darklight
> Il Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:44:16 +0100, houghi ha scritto:
>
>> Ezechiele wrote:
>>> Well, I hoped it was an improved version, else, following your
>>> reasoning, I would have been using still the first version. And, of
>>> course, I believed it had an improved kernel.
>>
>> Yes, but an improvement of what? And what would be wrong with still
>> working with the first version if that would do what you want it to do?
>>
>> houghi
>
> No, version 11.0 allowed me to use my webcam, and solved a lot of little
> problems too. It was perfect for me, and I have been really stupid to
> upgrade it.
>
> Francesco
>
>
>
And that is your problem upgrade!! you should always do a fresh install even
windows had problems with up grades. 11.1 has problems with ndiswrapper to
darklight
owe forgot to say i am still with 10.3
houghi
> No, version 11.0 allowed me to use my webcam, and solved a lot of little
> problems too. It was perfect for me, and I have been really stupid to
> upgrade it.
Well, you know what they say. If it ain';t broke, don't fix it. ;-)
houghi
> And that is your problem upgrade!! you should always do a fresh install even
> windows had problems with up grades. 11.1 has problems with ndiswrapper to
Almost. The way to do it is.
1) Decide why you need to update and if you need a newer version
2) Try the upgrade
3) If the upgrade fails, try a new installation
4) f that fails, go back to step 1
EOS
> And that is your problem upgrade!! you should always do a fresh install
> even windows had problems with up grades. 11.1 has problems with
> ndiswrapper to
nothing to do with the problems that the OP has.
i did also go to openSUSE 11.1 with a fresh install
Not the best release ever, but i will stick on openSUSE 11.1 and help to
make it work ;-)
1) slow package read --> now OK
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=457281
2) cd dvd burn as user --> still have problems
(workaround for me k3b as root)
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=408252
3) Compiz-fusion not work with 1/3 PC's
4) KDE3 & KDE4 bluetooth not working
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438956
--
EOS
www.photo-memories.be
Running KDE 3.5.10 / openSUSE 11.1
EOS
> 1) slow package read --> now OK
> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=457281
>
> 2) cd dvd burn as user --> still have problems
> (workaround for me k3b as root)
> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=408252
>
> 3) Compiz-fusion not work with 1/3 PC's
>
> 4) KDE3 & KDE4 bluetooth not working
> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438956
5) Amarok don't play stable
solved with selecting alsa as output
6) kaffeine also does not play video nice
this one is for tommorow ;-)
7) i don't like the new partition manager
Günther Schwarz
> 1) slow package read --> now OK
> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=457281
>
> 2) cd dvd burn as user --> still have problems
> (workaround for me k3b as root)
> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=408252
>
> 3) Compiz-fusion not work with 1/3 PC's
>
> 4) KDE3 & KDE4 bluetooth not working
> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438956
5) ppp-connections work here with a static /etc/resolv.conf only.
Other people report problems with ethernet connections as well.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443788
Günther
paul_0090
> EOS wrote:
>
>> 1) slow package read --> now OK
>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=457281
>>
>> 2) cd dvd burn as user --> still have problems
>> (workaround for me k3b as root)
>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=408252
>>
>> 3) Compiz-fusion not work with 1/3 PC's
>>
>> 4) KDE3 & KDE4 bluetooth not working
>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438956
>
> 5) Amarok don't play stable
> solved with selecting alsa as output
thanks
will have to think about this one, I went to xmms instead.
amarok 1.4 has lots of breakups/distortion when the audio
stream is at 320 kbps in either full orchestral audio or
choral; something that didn't occur with alsaplayer which
won't work on my setup. songbird sounded good also.
paul_0090
> Ezechiele wrote:
>> No, version 11.0 allowed me to use my webcam, and solved a lot of little
>> problems too. It was perfect for me, and I have been really stupid to
>> upgrade it.
>
> Well, you know what they say. If it ain';t broke, don't fix it. ;-)
>
> houghi
"they" also say don't install the x.0 version but wait at least for x.1
for the fixes......
times have changed!!??
Nikos Chantziaras
Dunno what "they" say, but I say "fix it before it breaks."
houghi
> "they" also say don't install the x.0 version but wait at least for x.1
> for the fixes......
>
> times have changed!!??
No. It is just that with the openSUSE distribution there is no x.0 or
x.1 distribution. The numbers are selected semirandom. This means that
besides marketing reasons, there is no other reason for the selection of
the numbers.
4.2 was the first public S.u.S.E so this could have just as easily be
called 4.30 instead of 11.1 or 12.0 or 7.8 or 17.3 or whatever.
Or to explain it differently, the number in openSUSE is not a version
number, it is part of the name.
noi ance
I'm thinking the ethernet problems are in Network-Manager.
6) PulseAudio doesn't recognize HDA-intel multi-channel sound, which 10.3
did, 11.1RC2 upgrade of 10.3 did but clean install 11.1 doesn't.
7) Nautilus closes by itself.
noi ance
Try the 11.1 LiveCD 32bit or 11.1 LiveCD 64bit CDs. Make sure all things
work the way you need them to work. If you're satisfied use the LiveCD
to clean install or upgrade to 11.1.
Günther Schwarz
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:48:20 +0100, Günther Schwarz typed this
> message:
>> 5) ppp-connections work here with a static /etc/resolv.conf only.
>> Other people report problems with ethernet connections as well.
>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443788
> I'm thinking the ethernet problems are in Network-Manager.
I did shut down network manager before running pppd. Ethernet with a
DHCP server works here with networkmanager. Until the bug gets resolved
I simply use a static resolv.conf for ppp connections.
Günther
Ezechiele
When I first tried to install 11.1 the partitioner tried to change my
partitioning schene, trying to install / over my home directory, and
using other important data partitions as. I couldn't change this, so I
give up, upgrading old installation instead of installing new version.
Fra
Paul J Gans
>Ezechiele wrote:
>> Oh, I forgot to remember my wireless connection stopped to work too,
>> and it worked fine with 11.0. I start to think 11.1 is really weird,
>> and better I go back to 11.0. I hope next version will be better than
>> this 11.1.
>Why did you want to go with 11.1 in the first place? What did not work
>with 11.0 that you thought would work in 11.1?
>Just curious. I am still on 11.0 and am not even sure if I will go to
>11.1 at all.
Why do you do this? There are REAL problems out there. It is
no solution to say, why upgrade?
What I'd like is a little more tranparency to the entire system.
Is the K3B in 11.1 the same version as in 11.0? If so, the problem
lies elsewhere. Otherwise the problem is probably K3B and perhaps
a recompile of the older version would fix things.
But the K3B problems and burning have been around since at least
version 9.0. And in truth, versions prior to 9.0 didn't do much
in the way of burning either.
I'd like to see this fixed or, if the problem is hardware, I'd
like to see that established for sure.
Otherwise we just get release after release and no cure.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Paul J Gans
>Ezechiele wrote:
>> No, version 11.0 allowed me to use my webcam, and solved a lot of little
>> problems too. It was perfect for me, and I have been really stupid to
>> upgrade it.
>Well, you know what they say. If it ain';t broke, don't fix it. ;-)
Tell it to the development team.
Paul J Gans
>When I first tried to install 11.1 the partitioner tried to change my
>partitioning schene, trying to install / over my home directory, and
>using other important data partitions as. I couldn't change this, so I
>give up, upgrading old installation instead of installing new version.
You can change it on install. When you come to the screen that
proposes a disk layout and the installed software and all the
rest, you can click on the proposed partitioning scheme header.
That will take you to a menu of several choices. You can pick
manual and go from there. I can't give you details for 11.1
because my 11.1 boxed set has not yet arrived.
Ezechiele
I think this tool has been badly redesigned, for, as I tried to use it,
it always proposed me, at the end of the partitioning configuration, to
format my home directory and other important directory, mounting /
directory over my /home directory. As I didn't want to change my
partitioning scheme, only formatting / and /usr, I gave up.
Francesco
houghi
Right you are. What is the bugnumber? I do not have an issue, so I can;t
file the bugreport.
houghi
--
If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem.
If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem.
If you owe the bank $700 billion, it becomes your problem again.
houghi
> I'd like to see this fixed or, if the problem is hardware, I'd
> like to see that established for sure.
>
> Otherwise we just get release after release and no cure.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the question wether you should
update or not. That is a question of development.
The only reason I keep hammering on "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
is because people have most of the time no clue as to why they update.
Ezechiele
> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 07:39:00 +0000, Ezechiele wrote:
>
>>> You can change it on install. When you come to the screen that
>>> proposes a disk layout and the installed software and all the rest,
>>> you can click on the proposed partitioning scheme header.
>>>
>>> That will take you to a menu of several choices. You can pick manual
>>> and go from there. I can't give you details for 11.1 because my 11.1
>>> boxed set has not yet arrived.
>>
>> I think this tool has been badly redesigned, for, as I tried to use it,
>> it always proposed me, at the end of the partitioning configuration, to
>> format my home directory and other important directory, mounting /
>> directory over my /home directory. As I didn't want to change my
>> partitioning scheme, only formatting / and /usr, I gave up.
>
> I successfully installed 11.1 over my previous install of 11.0, keeping
> my /home and various /data partitions intact. Can't remember the exact
> sequence of events but after some clicking I managed to persuade the
> partitioner to read my old fstab and I then was able to reformat the
> root directory and keep my other partitions as they were.
>
> Strangely, it did try to remove one partition from the proposed new
> fstab and I had to manually add this one.
>
> I agree, it's not a simple process though.
It is strange how things have been complicated too much. Why ? The
partitioner is really ugly and weird, difficult to understand and to use,
unable to help you to get your job. I ask again: why ?
The previous versione were so simple to use, and this was the reaason I
started to love OpenSuse, giving up Mandrake a long time ago.
Fra
Paul J Gans
>Paul J Gans wrote:
>> I'd like to see this fixed or, if the problem is hardware, I'd
>> like to see that established for sure.
>>
>> Otherwise we just get release after release and no cure.
>That has absolutely nothing to do with the question wether you should
>update or not. That is a question of development.
>The only reason I keep hammering on "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
>is because people have most of the time no clue as to why they update.
Yes they do. They assume that later versions of a program
have fewer bugs than earlier versions. Even if they've not
yet run into a bug, they want the assurance that running into
one will be even less likely in the new release.
And this should be true, with a few exceptions because as
it is written, "bugs will always be with us".
Paul J Gans
My feeling is that the developers wanted it to be even
easier than before. So they make changing anything hard.
So now it is easy, just accept whatever the install tells
you.
This is a valid strategy and *might* get more folks used to
linux. However, the stategy contains an assumption which is
that the included software will just work.
Perhaps the solution is an early choice: "automatic install"
or "guided install" with the latter making choices easier.
suseuser
> When I first tried to install 11.1 the partitioner tried to change my
> partitioning schene, trying to install / over my home directory, and
> using other important data partitions as. I couldn't change this, so I
> give up, upgrading old installation instead of installing new version.
I decided to try the new opensuse 11.1 and did a fresh install. I let
opensuse to do the partitioning for my first drive 160Gb. I left my
second drive 15Gb as it is.
The installation went well and opensuse is working quite well. Some
problems with the dvd drive and with the scanner but I like the look of
opensuse.
But when trying to install some more programs it failed because of lack
of space! I seems that my /dev/mapper/system-root is 100% full!
I'm a bit lost where has all the space gone and how to recover it.
Ezechiele
> My feeling is that the developers wanted it to be even easier than
> before. So they make changing anything hard. So now it is easy, just
> accept whatever the install tells you.
>
> This is a valid strategy and *might* get more folks used to linux.
> However, the stategy contains an assumption which is that the included
> software will just work.
>
> Perhaps the solution is an early choice: "automatic install" or "guided
> install" with the latter making choices easier.
And of course, I have forgotten to say that I have four sata disk
installed, and partitioner renamed disks, so that sba disk become sbc,
and so on. A total mess, I never had encountered before. But the weird
thing was the fact that I couldn't control what the partitioning tool had
decided to do. And the fact that I have a 17 inch monitor and the
partitioning tool window was bigger :-)
graham
"No such file or directory" On my system. I should delete that file.
>> I'm a bit lost where has all the space gone and how to recover it.
See what the command df says.
suseuser
linux-dzxf:/home/suseuser/Desktop # df
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Used% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/system-root
5575824 4768480 524108 91% /
udev 510628 772 509856 1% /dev
/dev/sda1 69972 19696 46663 30% /boot
/dev/mapper/system-home
8369584 1295084 6649336 17% /home
/dev/sdb1 14981992 2439520 12542472 17% /windows/C
I removed some stuff from / (kde files as I use Gnome) to get some space.
During installation I used LVM based partitioning thinking that it would
automatically use all space efficiently. Apparently I was wrong.
Rob
> Paul J Gans wrote:
>> I'd like to see this fixed or, if the problem is hardware, I'd
>> like to see that established for sure.
>>
>> Otherwise we just get release after release and no cure.
>
> That has absolutely nothing to do with the question wether you should
> update or not. That is a question of development.
>
> The only reason I keep hammering on "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
> is because people have most of the time no clue as to why they update.
You seem to assume that software is going downhill and that you should
grab something that works and hold on to it.
Why so negative? Is this your experience with opensuse or kde developers?
I upgraded to 11.1 because I assumed that some of my problems with new
hardware would be solved. While I don't have as severe problems as
others do, as a whole the experience is not too good.
What is the motivation behind development today? Are new versions
released to frustrate others, to play with things, or to improve?
When there is no need to update and improve, why are new versions released
so often and more important: why are updates on older versions abandoned
so quickly?
Maybe it is better to get a new version only once per year and only do
it when there have been improvements. Development experiments don't count
as improvements here.
(e.g. KDE4)
alfredo
> EOS wrote:
>
>> 1) slow package read --> now OK
>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=457281
>>
>> 2) cd dvd burn as user --> still have problems
>> (workaround for me k3b as root)
>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=408252
>>
asks to insert a blank media).
I solved the issue by included myself in the cdrom and disk groups. now it works.
>> 3) Compiz-fusion not work with 1/3 PC's
>>
>> 4) KDE3 & KDE4 bluetooth not working
>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438956
>
+1
> 5) Amarok don't play stable
> solved with selecting alsa as output
>
+1
> 6) kaffeine also does not play video nice
> this one is for tommorow ;-)
>
> 7) i don't like the new partition manager
8) screen saver list in kde 3 control panel is empty
i can use xscreensaver to configure, or manually change ../.kdesktoprc
houghi
> You seem to assume that software is going downhill and that you should
> grab something that works and hold on to it.
No to the first. Yes to the second/
> Why so negative? Is this your experience with opensuse or kde developers?
This is my experience with everything. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
That was true for Adam and Eve. They wanted something better then
paradise. That is true for the drinks I drink. I have found my drink and
do not need to look further. That is true with software.
> When there is no need to update and improve, why are new versions released
> so often and more important: why are updates on older versions abandoned
> so quickly?
Why not. It is not because I do not upgrade nobody else will. And they
are not abandonend. Development is an ongoing process. I think it is
great that development is done and nobody should be happy with what they
have.
That hoever does not mean that you should update when a new version is
available. You should update for other reasons.
houghi
--
houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
>
> Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier...
Rob
> Why not. It is not because I do not upgrade nobody else will. And they
> are not abandonend.
They are. After only a year or two, there will be no more security
updates to any opensuse release. That effectively means "abandoned".
Now there are three or four releases in that timespan and it is understandable
that one cannot maintain more releases than that. It could be more
effective to make fewer releases and keep them maintained for longer.
But I guess it is useless to discuss this with you.
Will Honea
> Why not. It is not because I do not upgrade nobody else will. And they
> are not abandonend. Development is an ongoing process. I think it is
> great that development is done and nobody should be happy with what they
> have.
The last few bumps to OpenSUSE have each had some improvement I needed,
especially on my laptop, to justify the update. I hate to maintain
different versions, so that dragged the rest of the conglomeration of boxes
along.
That said, the increasing number of problems I'm seeing on the forums with
each release is sending a different message to me: the releases need more
testing. No, I'm not pointing fingers at the developers; rather, I'm
pointing at the mirror because the users are the testers for free software.
As the user base grows, more of that base will have different focuses on
what is important in a release and will be better able to report back on
bugs they find (or think they find) because they exercise certain parts
more extensively than the developers reasonably can be expected to. The
process depends on their reporting these as early in the cycle as possible
so that the developers can fix the pissant issues BEFORE the GM, not after.
That said, given a choice I would lean toward the argument that a modified
release cycle would be beneficial - but only if we users are more diligent
in reporting bugs (and preferences) and actually make an effort to
contribute to the testing. Why extend the release interval if we don't make
an effort to use the time to improve the coming release?
--
Will Honea
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Paul J Gans
Click on "my computer". Over on the right will be a list of
disk partitions, their total space, and the available space
left on the device. See what it says. 160 Gb ought to be
more than enough for running openSUSE.
Paul J Gans
Will, I agree with one caveat.
I don't really have a spare reasonably up to date machine. I
do have a spare, but it is ancient hardware. My working
machines are just that. I can't take them out of service for
a day or so just to test a new release.
What I would like to see is pre-release software released in
a live CD or live DVD format. That way I could test various
features without having to actually install the system on a
hard drive.
arnold
Open SuSE has released live CD's. I have a KDE 11.1 next to me right now.
noi ance
> EOS wrote:
>> EOS wrote:
>>
>>> 1) slow package read --> now OK
>>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=457281
>>>
>>> 2) cd dvd burn as user --> still have problems (workaround for me k3b
>>> as root)
>>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=408252
>>>
> same here, a blank media is detected by the system, but k3b does not
> show it (it asks to insert a blank media).
>
> I solved the issue by included myself in the cdrom and disk groups. now
> it works.
>
I noticed that burner problems in 11.1RC2 and this time I added myself to
cdrom group. Nice to know that will fix the problem, does this solution
fix Brassero as well¿
>>> 3) Compiz-fusion not work with 1/3 PC's
>>>
>>> 4) KDE3 & KDE4 bluetooth not working
>>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438956
>>
> +1
>
>> 5) Amarok don't play stable
>> solved with selecting alsa as output
>>
> +1
>
>> 6) kaffeine also does not play video nice
>> this one is for tommorow ;-)
>>
>> 7) i don't like the new partition manager
>
Me neither. FTT 11.1 added boot from floppy to grub. Since I never use
the floppy I used the yast-config-bootloader to delete the floppy from
the boot menu. System wouldn't reboot, no bootable device. Just
completed reinstalling 11.1.
noi ance
I wanted to test 11.1RC2 so I upgraded to 10.3 to 11.1RC2.
Like Arnold post release I used the LiveCD x86_64 to for a look see and
install 11.1.
The LiveCDs may or may not highlight problems with software or packages.
For instance, you real partitions are not used when booting the LiveCDs,
u only mount them under the LiveCD, some kernel packages may or may not
be loaded with the LiveCD and anything requiring a system reboot wipes
out everything else installed under a LiveCD boot.
LiveCDs are helpful but not a guarantee that you won't have a problem
post install, like f-k-g multichannel sound out of PulseAudio.
noi ance
I think I understand. You used the sda 15G drive for the installation.
It used 5Gb for / and 8Gb for /home the rest for /swap and /boot.
Windows is on the 160Gb sdb drive.
4-4.5Gb is about the normal size for a Suse install depending on the
number of system packages installed, ie, packages installed to /usr/ on
sda.
suseuser
> Click on "my computer". Over on the right will be a list of disk
> partitions, their total space, and the available space left on the
> device. See what it says. 160 Gb ought to be more than enough for
> running openSUSE.
I had done that already and for some reason openSUSE had left most of the
drive unpartitioned. I could make a new partition out of it but could not
figure out how to increase the root partition.
Gparted ended with error, Qtparted not found, tried to start from the DVD
again but that Linux rescue ended also with a red fail as did a new
installation attempt.
I surrended and installed Ubuntu 8.10 again.
Thanks for the answers.
houghi
> Now there are three or four releases in that timespan and it is understandable
> that one cannot maintain more releases than that. It could be more
> effective to make fewer releases and keep them maintained for longer.
You mean like SUSE wich is maintained for 7 years?
> But I guess it is useless to discuss this with you.
Indeed. Take it up with the deveopers.
houghi
--
How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Iraq?
How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?
houghi
> The last few bumps to OpenSUSE have each had some improvement I needed,
> especially on my laptop, to justify the update. I hate to maintain
> different versions, so that dragged the rest of the conglomeration of boxes
> along.
That is a greatr reason to upgrade.
> That said, the increasing number of problems I'm seeing on the forums with
> each release is sending a different message to me: the releases need more
> testing. No, I'm not pointing fingers at the developers; rather, I'm
> pointing at the mirror because the users are the testers for free software.
> As the user base grows, more of that base will have different focuses on
> what is important in a release and will be better able to report back on
> bugs they find (or think they find) because they exercise certain parts
> more extensively than the developers reasonably can be expected to. The
> process depends on their reporting these as early in the cycle as possible
> so that the developers can fix the pissant issues BEFORE the GM, not after.
W#ell said.
> That said, given a choice I would lean toward the argument that a modified
> release cycle would be beneficial - but only if we users are more diligent
> in reporting bugs (and preferences) and actually make an effort to
> contribute to the testing. Why extend the release interval if we don't make
> an effort to use the time to improve the coming release?
They had made it from 6 to 8 months between releases. No idea why they
went back to 6.
houghi
> LiveCDs are helpful but not a guarantee that you won't have a problem
> post install, like f-k-g multichannel sound out of PulseAudio.
With the size of HD's nowadays, it is realy not a huge problem to have a
seperate partition for testing. 10GB should be more then enough. Have
another 10 for a current and 10 for a previous version.
Obviously this is without the /home partition.
Ezechiele
> They had made it from 6 to 8 months between releases. No idea why they
> went back to 6.
>
11.1 is having.
Günther Schwarz
> Rob wrote:
>> When there is no need to update and improve, why are new versions
>> released so often and more important: why are updates on older
>> versions abandoned so quickly?
>
> Why not. It is not because I do not upgrade nobody else will. And they
> are not abandonend. Development is an ongoing process. I think it is
> great that development is done and nobody should be happy with what
> they have.
The problem many users experience with 11.1 is purely one with quality
management. Sadly enough the maintainers did not check for basic things
like CD burning, networking, or bluetooth to work prior to release. As
compared to the release of 11.0 the number of open bugs is just not
acceptable. This is forcing users out of this distribution and therefor
does a lot of damage to openSuSE. For the time being I will not
recommend 11.1 to anybody, not even people I don't like too much ;-)
Günther
houghi
> The problem many users experience with 11.1 is purely one with quality
> management. Sadly enough the maintainers did not check for basic things
> like CD burning, networking, or bluetooth to work prior to release.
So what have you done considering beta testing?
> As compared to the release of 11.0 the number of open bugs is just not
> acceptable. This is forcing users out of this distribution and
> therefor does a lot of damage to openSuSE. For the time being I will
> not recommend 11.1 to anybody, not even people I don't like too much
> ;-)
Have you noticed I also do not recommend 11.1 to anybody?
Günther Schwarz
> Günther Schwarz wrote:
>> The problem many users experience with 11.1 is purely one with
>> quality management. Sadly enough the maintainers did not check for
>> basic things like CD burning, networking, or bluetooth to work prior
>> to release.
>
> So what have you done considering beta testing?
You will have no problems whatever to find my name in the bugzilla
system, and you know that. But then it is none of my business to clean
up the mess other people produce. While the bug tracking system is
great to report the ever unavoidable bugs in rarely used functions it
should not be regarded as a replacement for basic quality checks and
testing.
As an additional point setting the release date shortly before the
holiday season means that none of the problems mentioned will be worked
on until next week. So users will be frustrated and annoyed for at
least three weeks. Not a good timing IMHO.
Günther
houghi
> You will have no problems whatever to find my name in the bugzilla
> system, and you know that.
No, I do not know that.
> But then it is none of my business to clean up the mess other people
> produce. While the bug tracking system is great to report the ever
> unavoidable bugs in rarely used functions it should not be regarded as
> a replacement for basic quality checks and testing.
Yes, it is. It also is the place to ask for anything else related to
openSUSE.
> As an additional point setting the release date shortly before the
> holiday season means that none of the problems mentioned will be worked
> on until next week. So users will be frustrated and annoyed for at
> least three weeks. Not a good timing IMHO.
As I said, they had 8 months announced. No idea why they went back to 6
months. 8 months would have been better, because then they could have
done it together with FOSDEM. :-D
Günther Schwarz
> Günther Schwarz wrote:
>> You will have no problems whatever to find my name in the bugzilla
>> system, and you know that.
>
> No, I do not know that.
So now you know.
>> But then it is none of my business to clean up the mess other people
>> produce. While the bug tracking system is great to report the ever
>> unavoidable bugs in rarely used functions it should not be regarded
>> as a replacement for basic quality checks and testing.
>
> Yes, it is. It also is the place to ask for anything else related to
> openSUSE.
I have to disagree. A bugzilla system can easily be turned into
something unusable and ugly when flooded with obvious bugs or rants
like this one. This is also a question of trust into the skills and
motivation of the people working on the distribution. As soon as I will
get the impression that negligence and a lack of commitment are the
basic attitudes I will not spend any more time on preparing bug
reports.
Günther
suseuser
No, it didn't go like that. I have no windows in my computer, the 15G sdb
drive is formatted as FAT32 and just has windows name as it was a drive
to backup my wifes window files (she is on Linux only now).
I use the 15G drive as a backup and don't install anything there.
I let openSUSE to use and format the whole 160Gb sda drive. It was before
formatted as jfs.
This is my df output now under Ubu:
ubuntuser@Ubuntu-desktop:~$ df
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda2 78771268 2935804 71834076 4% /
tmpfs 516664 0 516664 0% /lib/init/rw
varrun 516664 112 516552 1% /var/run
varlock 516664 0 516664 0% /var/lock
udev 516664 2848 513816 1% /dev
tmpfs 516664 476 516188 1% /dev/shm
lrm 516664 2004 514660 1% /lib/
modules/2.6.27-11-generic/volatile
/dev/sda1 1004024 53528 899492 6% /boot
/dev/sda5 76785920 1344784 71540556 2% /home
/dev/scd0 4131844 4131844 0 100% /media/cdrom0
/dev/sdb1 14981984 3338264 11643720 23% /windows
noi ance
I confess I might have been off on the sizes but these are complete different
partition allocations, but / was still 90% full under Suse. There wasn't an
sda5 under Suse.
Should I assume you're sticking with Ubuntu and this thread is closed?
Otherwise, next time please run fdisk -l sda, fdisk -l sdb and submit the
outputs with your df -h output.
Paul J Gans
>> They had made it from 6 to 8 months between releases. No idea why they
>> went back to 6.
>>
>I hope we haven't to wait for 8 months to have fixed all the problems
>11.1 is having.
No, you most probably won't have to wait. One of the very
excellent things about openSUSE is the continual updating
of programs. Use yast and don't forget to click on the
button allowing updates for all installed programs.
Bernd Felsche
Reliance on bug-tracking also leads to the deception of software
being ready to release as soon as it compiles. Regression testing is
more important than bug tracking. But it's much harder to automate;
especially with gooey interfaces.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Second to agriculture, humbug is the
X against HTML mail | biggest industry of our age.
/ \ and postings | -- Alfred Nobel
suseuser
> I confess I might have been off on the sizes but these are complete
> different partition allocations, but / was still 90% full under Suse.
> There wasn't an sda5 under Suse.
>
> Should I assume you're sticking with Ubuntu and this thread is closed?
> Otherwise, next time please run fdisk -l sda, fdisk -l sdb and submit
> the outputs with your df -h output.
I did a new manual partitioning when I installed Ubuntu.
I dis a 1 Gb boot, 1 Gb swap and divided the rest between /home and /.
Yes, I am sticking with Ubuntu but I was impressed with the look of
openSUSE but for me there were some problems.
This thread can be closed and I thank you for all the help.
Eef Hartman
>> But when trying to install some more programs it failed because of lack
>> of space! I seems that my /dev/mapper/system-root is 100% full!
>
> "No such file or directory" On my system. I should delete that file.
It is not a FILE, it is a device (just like /dev/sda1).
/dev/mapper "devices" mean that either hardware RAID is being
used or else software LVM (Logical Volume Manager).
Anyway, the disk isn't used as "partitions" but in another way
(to be exact by the "device mapper" interface in the kernel:
CONFIG_MD=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_MD=y
(that is "Multi-Device", like i.e. "RAID")
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_DM=m
(and that is "Device Mapper" support,
in this case as a loadable kernel module).
Out of the default kernel config for openSUSE 10.3.
So Multi-Device support (either RAID or LVM) is built-in, but the
actual modules are only loaded when needed.
--
*******************************************************************
** Eef Hartman, Delft University of Technology, dept. SSC/ICT **
** e-mail: E.J.M....@tudelft.nl, fax: +31-15-278 7295 **
** snail-mail: P.O. Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands **
*******************************************************************
Shmuel Metz
at 10:16 PM, Ezechiele <esec...@wolfland.it> said:
>When I first tried to install 11.1 the partitioner tried to change my
>partitioning schene, trying to install / over my home directory, and
>using other important data partitions as. I couldn't change this, so I
>give up, upgrading old installation instead of installing new version.
Were you using the advanced option? There should be a selection under
advanced for specifying your own layout. As of 10.3 it mostly worked; has
that changed?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
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