13.1 feature set. No wireless improvement?
jo...@wexfordpress.com
mentions XFCE ahead of KDE 4, a useful hint for those not prepared for
the cryptic and sluggish KDE4.
What I am hoping to see on Slack is an automatic and foolproof
wireless connection equivalent to the one I found on Knoppix. Using
13.0 I did a lot of extra work to get wireless working on the family
laptop, and after a while it stopped working. OTOH Knoppix has a
wireless connection without difficulty and without extra effort. So I
installed Knoppix on the hard drive instead. Works fine.
Slackware needs to have a more foolproof and reliable wireless hookup.
It should be a standard feature and not an add-on. Laptops are
increasingly the computer of choice for many. The 13.1 release
announcement does not mention wireless connection upgrades.
I'll upgrade XFCE separately since that is the interface I use.
John Culleton
Chris Sorenson
Distros that have foolproof-automatic wireless support have technical
staffs that are way bigger than Slackware. As far as I can tell the
wireless support that Slackware does have was implemented mostly by
Eric Hameleers.
It took me a couple days to get my Broadcom card working, I had to get
the firmware, get the firmware cutter, add kernel support, make edits
to wireless-supplicant.conf (which mysteriously disappeared in 12.2,
possibly replaced by wpa_supplicant.conf, can't remember, shoulda wrote
it down!), also edits to rc.inet1.conf and rc.wireless.conf, had to
create a 90-local.rules files in /etc/udev/rules.d and add
SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*",
ATTR{address}=="00:17:3f:87:09:9c", ATTR{type}=1, NAME="wlan0" to it
(using, of course, the MAC address of my specific card), had to
figure out how to start dhcpd on the wireless interface, a whole
bunch more stuff that I also should have written down, but in the end
it all suddenly started working. There's no way Pat has time to do
that for the vast array of wireless hardware out there...
Grant
It's all open source, so one could examine how Knoppix goes about wireless
stuff and 'fix' Slackware? I can't do that as I'm not using wireless here.
Grant.
--
http://bugs.id.au/
Henrik Carlqvist
> What I am hoping to see on Slack is an automatic and foolproof
> wireless connection equivalent to the one I found on Knoppix. Using
> 13.0 I did a lot of extra work to get wireless working on the family
> laptop,
The quick and easy way to get wireless and wired network working on a
laptop is to install the wicd package included in the extra directory.
regards Henrik
--
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc3(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
root@localhost postmaster@localhost
Chris Vine
The extras directory has wicd in it. That makes setting up wireless
relatively trivial (similar to the graphical interfaces used by other
operating systems we shall not mention). You should make yourself a
member of the netdev group.
Chris
jo...@wexfordpress.com
wrote:
Yes Yes, I downloaded wicd and the Broadcom drivers, and after much
fiddling got wireless to work for a week or two. Then it stopped
working. Just for a test I booted a Knoppix disk. It found wireless
right away. So I installed Knoppix to the hard drive. My wife likes it
much better than Slackware plus xfce (I wouldn't subject her to KDE4).
So I am of the opinion still. Slackware needs a reliable and out-of-
the-box wireless setup. Knoppix which is maintained by Klaus Knopper
has such a setup. With the increasing number of home wireless networks
it is pretty much a necessity.
John C.
Dan C
> So I am of the opinion still. Slackware needs a reliable and out-of-
> the-box wireless setup. Knoppix which is maintained by Klaus Knopper has
> such a setup. With the increasing number of home wireless networks it is
> pretty much a necessity.
Let me know when you finish development of this. I don't really want it,
or need it, but I'd like to see how long it takes you.
Oh! You were probably expecting someone else to do it for you, right?
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he slipped his date a Purple Microdot.
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Thanks, Obama: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/politica/thanks.jpg
Martin
> What I am hoping to see on Slack is an automatic and foolproof
> wireless connection equivalent to the one I found on Knoppix.
I agree, wireless support out-of-the-box could be better.
> Using
> 13.0 I did a lot of extra work to get wireless working on the family
> laptop, and after a while it stopped working.
I have done the same recently. In order to share the effort I put a write-up
on the web and had it linked to from tuxmobil.org.
http://www.frogge.de/pepper/p50ij/p50ij.html#wlan
It is still not totally end-user-proof as you still have to edit config
files whenever you move to a new access point with authentication. Wicd
alone is not the answer.
Martin
Mike Jones
With Slackware's traditions, I don't see inserting other OS stuff into
Slackware as default software anything thats going to happen soon.
However, if some enterprising Slacker were to generate some Slack-ready
clones of things that have become pretty much "standardised", and upload
them to a Slack-resource URL, then this kind of problem could be solved
by secondary Slackware support resources, say slacky.eu, or Alien Bob's
stuff, or Robbie Workman's excellent resources, etc.
See VectorLinux\Zenwalk for more on how to integrate the good stuff.
--
*=( http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/
*=( For all your UK news needs.
Helmut Hullen
Du meintest am 31.05.10:
> So I am of the opinion still. Slackware needs a reliable and out-of-
> the-box wireless setup. Knoppix which is maintained by Klaus Knopper
> has such a setup. With the increasing number of home wireless
> networks it is pretty much a necessity.
What about "RIP"?
http://www.tux.org/pub/people/kent-robotti/looplinux/rip/
It's now my favourite PXE LiveCD system.
And it offers "wireless configuration" per mouse click.
Viele Gruesse
Helmut
"Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Paweł Wlaź
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, Martin wrote:
[ . . . ]
> http://www.frogge.de/pepper/p50ij/p50ij.html#wlan
>
> It is still not totally end-user-proof as you still have to edit config
> files whenever you move to a new access point with authentication. Wicd
> alone is not the answer.
>
And exactly what is missing in wicd? I am using two totally different
laptops and I can connect to any wireless network (secured or not)
*without* manually editing any config files. Maybe, maybe for some
laptops you have to configure your wireless card, but after that, you
do not have to "edit config files whenever you move to a new acess
poin with authentication", as you write. So, even if wicd alone is not
the anser, its answer is much simpler than yours.
Pawel
Loki Harfagr
> Hallo, john,
>
> Du meintest am 31.05.10:
>
>> So I am of the opinion still. Slackware needs a reliable and out-of-
>> the-box wireless setup. Knoppix which is maintained by Klaus Knopper
>> has such a setup. With the increasing number of home wireless networks
>> it is pretty much a necessity.
>
> What about "RIP"?
>
> http://www.tux.org/pub/people/kent-robotti/looplinux/rip/
>
> It's now my favourite PXE LiveCD system.
>
> And it offers "wireless configuration" per mouse click.
Wot? The wireless card is in your mouse?
Douglas Mayne
Ack! IME, wicd is sufficient and doesn't require editing config files. It
transparently handles all of the parameters that had previously required
manual loading of wpa_supplicant, etc. And the wicd-curses program gives
a similar interface to CLI-only interfaces.
To the OP: Because wicd is in the "extra" package group, that makes it
part of the default "slackware" in my book. For whatever reason, because
it has not been elevated to "slackware/n" or another package group as you
would like is a very minimal problem. Just remember to check your list of
extra packages that you need to finish up an install. My list of extra
package includes at least grub, wicd, and tightVNC; from there, I
remember to get a bunch of packages from slackbuilds (apcupsd,
openoffice, various xfce gadgets, etc). What I install depends on the
box's intended function (server, workstation, etc.) YMMV.
--
Douglas Mayne
Helmut Hullen
Du meintest am 01.06.10:
>> http://www.tux.org/pub/people/kent-robotti/looplinux/rip/
>>
>> It's now my favourite PXE LiveCD system.
>>
>> And it offers "wireless configuration" per mouse click.
> Wot? The wireless card is in your mouse?
Yes - of course! It's a rumpy mouse!
Chris Vine
"jo...@wexfordpress.com" <jo...@wexfordpress.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Yes Yes, I downloaded wicd and the Broadcom drivers, and after much
> fiddling got wireless to work for a week or two. Then it stopped
> working. Just for a test I booted a Knoppix disk. It found wireless
> right away. So I installed Knoppix to the hard drive. My wife likes it
> much better than Slackware plus xfce (I wouldn't subject her to KDE4).
>
> So I am of the opinion still. Slackware needs a reliable and out-of-
> the-box wireless setup. Knoppix which is maintained by Klaus Knopper
> has such a setup. With the increasing number of home wireless networks
> it is pretty much a necessity.
I don't agree. I see no reason why Slackware should package up
proprietary drivers for cheap hardware for suppliers who won't release
their source code or even adequate specifications.
But even if that is wrong, your opinion is not well thought out
even on that level, because the problem is not just what you think it
is. The fact of the matter is that the proprietary broadcom driver (the
latest of which is at
http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php) does not compile
against kernel versions 2.6.33 or later.
You would be better advised to complain to broadcom about their not
releasing their source code rather than complaining that Slackware does
not provide an out of date kernel and proprietary drivers, or being more
careful about the hardware you purchase.
However, I will send you a patch which will enable you to compile the
broadcom driver with 2.6.33 (and so Slackware-13.1) if you wish. But I
expect you would be better off sticking with Knoppix, as you say.
Alternatively you could use Slackware 13.0 until broadcom catch up. If
you ran into this problem with Slackware 13.0 then probably you did not
blacklist the ssb and b43 drivers in a file in modprobe.d, as the
broadcom documentation tells you to do.
Chris
Chris Vine
I don't think your approach is right. The README in the wicd extras
directory tells you to remove any set-up in /etc/rc.inet1.conf and in
my experience if that is done wicd is foolproof. It can also handle
wired ethernet as well as wireless, and any necessary dhcp requests.
If you are using wicd and editing configuration files, you are doing
something wrong.
In any event, it appears the that OP's problem is with the broadcom
drivers rather than configuration.
Chris
Jim Diamond
> On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:54:24 -0700 (PDT)
> "jo...@wexfordpress.com" <jo...@wexfordpress.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>> Yes Yes, I downloaded wicd and the Broadcom drivers, and after much
>> fiddling got wireless to work for a week or two. Then it stopped
>> working. Just for a test I booted a Knoppix disk. It found wireless
>> right away. So I installed Knoppix to the hard drive. My wife likes it
>> much better than Slackware plus xfce (I wouldn't subject her to KDE4).
>>
>> So I am of the opinion still. Slackware needs a reliable and out-of-
>> the-box wireless setup. Knoppix which is maintained by Klaus Knopper
>> has such a setup. With the increasing number of home wireless networks
>> it is pretty much a necessity.
> I don't agree. I see no reason why Slackware should package up
> proprietary drivers for cheap hardware for suppliers who won't release
> their source code or even adequate specifications.
Here's a reason (which you may not like, but...)
So that people who have systems with such hardware can say
"Slackware just works (TM)".
Yes, with sufficient effort and possibly help, people can get their
hardware working by downloading this or that, re-compiling this or
that, (re-)configuring this or that, and so on.
But is that any different than any package already provided with
Slackware? Not really. For example, if Slackware didn't include
emacs or vim or ..., I'd just d/l it/them and compile it/them and
install it/them myself.
Of course, Pat V (& helpers?) has/have to decide where to draw the
line, and that's fine. But just because he/they choose not to include
some useful (for some people) packages doesn't mean there is *no*
reason to do so.
I just put Slack64 13.1 on my laptop. Besides my hardware for which I
use proprietary drivers (nvidia graphics card), I add a lot of
packages which I need to d/l and compile myself. Is it a big deal?
Well, not in the sense that it is a major difficulty. But it took me
about a day to get everything set up, and if those packages came with
Slackware already, I'd be about a day ahead.
Cheers.
Jim
Mike Jones
[...]
> I just put Slack64 13.1 on my laptop. Besides my hardware for which I
> use proprietary drivers (nvidia graphics card), I add a lot of packages
> which I need to d/l and compile myself. Is it a big deal? Well, not in
> the sense that it is a major difficulty. But it took me about a day to
> get everything set up, and if those packages came with Slackware
> already, I'd be about a day ahead.
I have a scripted files\slackpkg collection that I run on a fresh install.
Everything done, including customised user accounts, in 7 minutes.
Pre-use reboot optional.
Dan C
Just for the record... I tried to compile the Broadcom driver on a new
13.1 install, and it did indeed fail. However, when I do it via the
slackbuild script from slackbuilds.org, it produces an installable
package just fine. Haven't taken the time to analyze the slackbuild
script, but I suspect it is patching the driver during the build
process. Works just fine.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he called in an air strike.
Chris Vine
Dan C <youmust...@lan.invalid> wrote:
[snip]
> Just for the record... I tried to compile the Broadcom driver on a
> new 13.1 install, and it did indeed fail. However, when I do it via
> the slackbuild script from slackbuilds.org, it produces an
> installable package just fine. Haven't taken the time to analyze the
> slackbuild script, but I suspect it is patching the driver during the
> build process. Works just fine.
It does need a patch and it is pretty trivial. The generated
configuration file in the kernel source tree is now in
generated/autoconf.h rather than linux/autoconf.h, which requires
linuxver.h in the broadcom glue code to be patched.
You may find the in-tree b43 driver in 2.6.33 works for you, which means
that you don't have to bother with wl at all. It probably won't work
with a very recent netbook/laptop with a wireless device with 16K
memory area and low power PHY, but with others (including 8K low power
PHY) it will. Be careful with 2.6.34 though: it pretends it works with
such devices (it uses the PIO rather than DMA in order to do so) but it
is painfully slow and in those cases it is much better to use the wl
driver if you don't mind loading proprietary drivers. dmesg will tell
you if it has tried this work-around.
Possibly the OP tried to install the proprietary wl driver over the
in-tree b43 driver, since he made reference to the broadcom driver and
the wireless device once working and then ceasing to do so. That is a
sure way to failure. Or possibly he failed to notice that b43 brings
up the wlan0 interface and wl brings up the eth1 interface. All this
is explained in the documentation, but ...
Chris
Res
> Ack! IME, wicd is sufficient and doesn't require editing config files.
> It transparently handles all of the parameters that had previously
> required manual loading of wpa_supplicant, etc. And the wicd-curses
> program gives a similar interface to CLI-only interfaces.
>
+1
It does it all, well, be nicer if it also did HSPA and PPP, they have
been "coming" for too many years now for me to give a damn waiting, just
use hand written scripts that work just as well, but for newbies, they'd
be screwed.
> To the OP: Because wicd is in the "extra" package group, that makes it
and I think once they sort out the above mentioned (and once they get PPP
in it, all the hard work has been done to also include HSPA) , I think
I'd like to see it moved from extra into n/ and used by default.
--
"If a man is in need of rescue, an airplane can come in and throw flowers
on him, and that's just about all. But a helicopter could come in and
save his life." - Igor I. Sikorsky
Mr. B-o-B
> But even if that is wrong, your opinion is not well thought out
> even on that level, because the problem is not just what you think it
> is. The fact of the matter is that the proprietary broadcom driver (the
> latest of which is at
> http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php) does not compile
> against kernel versions 2.6.33 or later.
>
> You would be better advised to complain to broadcom about their not
> releasing their source code rather than complaining that Slackware does
> not provide an out of date kernel and proprietary drivers, or being more
> careful about the hardware you purchase.
>
I had a broadcom too. The best solution is to do what I did. Rip that
piece of crap out of your laptop, throw it as hard as you can out the
backdoor, and watch it explode as it lands in the alley.
Replaced with a Intel Pro N something or other. Problem solved.
I'll be damned in a little thing like a wifi card keeps me away from my
favorite disto!
Mr. B-o-B
Dan C
> On 6/1/2010 1:56 PM, Chris Vine wrote:
>> But even if that is wrong, your opinion is not well thought out even on
>> that level, because the problem is not just what you think it is. The
>> fact of the matter is that the proprietary broadcom driver (the latest
>> of which is at
>> http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php) does not compile
>> against kernel versions 2.6.33 or later.
>>
>> You would be better advised to complain to broadcom about their not
>> releasing their source code rather than complaining that Slackware does
>> not provide an out of date kernel and proprietary drivers, or being
>> more careful about the hardware you purchase.
>>
> I had a broadcom too. The best solution is to do what I did. Rip that
> piece of crap out of your laptop,
That isn't the "best" solution, n00b. The best solution is to figure out
how to make it work, which is actually quite easy. I have a Broadcom
BCM4328 in this laptop, and it works perfectly.
> I'll be damned in a little thing like a wifi card keeps me away from my
> favorite disto!
Ummmm.....
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1
Yeah.... Is that ExPee, or W2K?
Bugger off, Win-droid stooge.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he mounted Piglet from behind.
Martin
> I don't think your approach is right. The README in the wicd extras
> directory tells you to remove any set-up in /etc/rc.inet1.conf and in
> my experience if that is done wicd is foolproof. It can also handle
> wired ethernet as well as wireless, and any necessary dhcp requests.
I remember having problems getting it to work, but thanks to the feedback of
yours and others I shall look into it again.
Cheers
Martin
Mike Jones
This is a good point. If hardware is /that shitty/ it needs the ever-
bloating M$ collection of donated closed-source SH1t-class software to
run it, its not up to even minimum required standards for a Slacker.
/I've/ ripped hardware out and flung it, based on this ethic.
Jim Diamond
> Responding to Jim Diamond:
>
> [...]
>> I just put Slack64 13.1 on my laptop. Besides my hardware for which I
>> use proprietary drivers (nvidia graphics card), I add a lot of packages
>> which I need to d/l and compile myself. Is it a big deal? Well, not in
>> the sense that it is a major difficulty. But it took me about a day to
>> get everything set up, and if those packages came with Slackware
>> already, I'd be about a day ahead.
> I have a scripted files\slackpkg collection that I run on a fresh install.
>
> Everything done, including customised user accounts, in 7 minutes.
>
> Pre-use reboot optional.
I also have one, although I tend not to let it run automatically the
first time I use it on a new version of Slackware, in case something
significant has changed.
Even then, downloading and compiling just the slackbuilds.org packages
I add to Slackware takes way more than 7 minutes, and would do so even
if I had a gigabit network connection and 32 processors. I think it
takes my laptop (2 GHz Core 2 duo) more than 7 minutes just to compile
inkscape. :-(
What's a "reboot" ? :-)
Jim
Mr. B-o-B
>> I had a broadcom too. The best solution is to do what I did. Rip that
>> piece of crap out of your laptop,
>
> That isn't the "best" solution, n00b. The best solution is to figure out
> how to make it work, which is actually quite easy. I have a Broadcom
> BCM4328 in this laptop, and it works perfectly.
Who are you call n00b? I'm happy to hear about your broadcom.
>
>> I'll be damned in a little thing like a wifi card keeps me away from my
>> favorite disto!
>
> Ummmm.....
>
>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1
>
> Yeah.... Is that ExPee, or W2K?
>
> Bugger off, Win-droid stooge.
>
You know it is possible I have a plethora computers, and just happened to be
sitting at one of your favorites when I typed the reply. This is a
possibility. I will not be buggering off anytime soon.
Mike Jones
I discluded final compiles as most extra stuff is in *tgz form.
As for "reboot", RTFM! ;)