Slackware installation process translation

appzer0

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Jan 23, 2009, 11:28:54 AM1/23/09

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Hello,

First, sorry for my english.

I'm translating right now the Slackware installation scripts into my
native language (french). It's enjoying it , it is good for learning
and, who knows, maybe one day I will internationalize it.

However, I need more information about the Slack-made scripts which are
called during the installation - and also after.

Below is the trees of the scripts I translated (100%). They are from the
initrd.img file, and I found some other scripts called during the
'CONFIGURE' step of the installation process - these scripts are part of
the packages the user wanted to be installed. I would like to know, if
someone has the information, if I could see a list of the whole set of
scripts made by Pat/Slackware team or if I need to look at each
package's source (sometimes there's a ncurses script or a user-menu
driven script, as in a/kbd or a/glibc, sometimes there's not). Here's my
translated scripts list.

First, the initrd.img extracted-from files:

8 directories, 40 files

Then the other files I found to be translated:

14 directories, 44 files

Note that everything does not have to be translated here, I grabbed the
entire packages' source which have scripts or messages for user in there.

That's all I could find at the moment, I did not browse through the
whole Slackware source yet. Any clues?

Sorry again for my english.

appzer0

+Alan Hicks+

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Jan 23, 2009, 1:13:46 PM1/23/09

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2009-01-23, appzer0 <app...@freeRemoveThis.frRemoveThis> wrote:
> I'm translating right now the Slackware installation scripts into my
> native language (french). It's enjoying it , it is good for learning
> and, who knows, maybe one day I will internationalize it.

Internationalizing it would be a real Herculean effort and would
require approval from Pat. I highly doubt anything will happen in this
area anytime soon.

> However, I need more information about the Slack-made scripts which are
> called during the installation - and also after.

Check /var/log/setup/ after fully installing Slackware. This should
give you a complete list of optional[0] things that are run after
package installation, but before leaving setup. Those scripts aren't
what you'll need to translate, but they will point you to the right
files.

[0] Optional is a bit of a stretch. For example, you really need to run
liloconfig after almost every installation.

- --
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise,
Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:5
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No_One

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Jan 23, 2009, 1:37:35 PM1/23/09

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On 2009-01-23, +Alan Hicks+ <al...@lizella.netWORK> wrote:
>
> On 2009-01-23, appzer0 <app...@freeRemoveThis.frRemoveThis> wrote:
>> I'm translating right now the Slackware installation scripts into my
>> native language (french). It's enjoying it , it is good for learning
>> and, who knows, maybe one day I will internationalize it.
>
> Internationalizing it would be a real Herculean effort and would
> require approval from Pat. I highly doubt anything will happen in this
> area anytime soon.

Why would it require approval if it's open source?????

ken

Message has been deleted

No_One

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Jan 23, 2009, 2:00:41 PM1/23/09

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On 2009-01-23, Two Ravens <two-r...@operamail.org> wrote:

> No_One wrote:
>
>> Why would it require approval if it's open source?????
>

> To the best of my understanding, "open source" and 'free software' is still
> the copyright of its originator, it is just that the copyright is applied
> differently. For instance, (again to the best of my understanding), you
> cannot download a DVD of SlackwareŽ and then sell it on as your own work.

Agreed to a point, and as with you, this is my understanding: You can sell a
slackware version as your own -- Kenny's Linux -- IF you maintain the
orginal copyright notice, which would be PV's notice...likewise the scripts
can be altered if the orginal copyright notice remains....again, just my
understanding.

ken

appzer0

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Jan 23, 2009, 2:10:47 PM1/23/09

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+Alan Hicks+ a écrit :

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2009-01-23, appzer0 <app...@freeRemoveThis.frRemoveThis> wrote:
>> I'm translating right now the Slackware installation scripts into my
>> native language (french). It's enjoying it , it is good for learning
>> and, who knows, maybe one day I will internationalize it.
>
> Internationalizing it would be a real Herculean effort and would
> require approval from Pat. I highly doubt anything will happen in this
> area anytime soon.

Thank you I am aware of that. If I internationalize it (my business if
that work is a PITA) I surely will show Pat the code but not my
intention to contribute to the Slackware project directly as
internationalization is not in TODO I guess and as I am not an
experienced user enough to contribute to such a project by coding :)

>> However, I need more information about the Slack-made scripts which are
>> called during the installation - and also after.
>
> Check /var/log/setup/ after fully installing Slackware. This should
> give you a complete list of optional[0] things that are run after
> package installation, but before leaving setup. Those scripts aren't
> what you'll need to translate, but they will point you to the right
> files.
>
> [0] Optional is a bit of a stretch. For example, you really need to run
> liloconfig after almost every installation.

Thank you very much. I will have to test every installation types (NFS,
Samba, etc.).

appzer0

Helmut Hullen

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Jan 23, 2009, 2:14:00 PM1/23/09

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Hallo, No_One,

Du meintest am 23.01.09:

>>> Why would it require approval if it's open source?????

>> To the best of my understanding, "open source" and 'free software'
>> is still the copyright of its originator, it is just that the
>> copyright is applied differently. For instance, (again to the best

>> of my understanding), you cannot download a DVD of Slackware? and

>> then sell it on as your own work.

> Agreed to a point, and as with you, this is my understanding: You can
> sell a slackware version as your own -- Kenny's Linux -- IF you
> maintain the orginal copyright notice, which would be PV's
> notice...likewise the scripts can be altered if the orginal copyright
> notice remains....again, just my understanding.

"That depends" - copyright is national right, there is (still) no world
wide copyright.

In Germany there are two rights: "Urheberrecht" and "Verwertungsrecht".

"Verwertungsrecht": the author can give his work to a distributor which
sells the work.
"Urheberrecht": noone is allowed to relabel Patrick's work an tell the
people that he (and not Patrick) is the author.

Viele Gruesse
Helmut

"Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Mark Madsen

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Jan 23, 2009, 2:41:44 PM1/23/09

to

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:14:00 +0100, Helmut Hullen wrote:

> In Germany there are two rights: "Urheberrecht" and "Verwertungsrecht".
>
> "Verwertungsrecht": the author can give his work to a distributor which
> sells the work.
> "Urheberrecht": noone is allowed to relabel Patrick's work an tell the
> people that he (and not Patrick) is the author.

Stop trolling for Jörg Schilling!

And if you must, just do it the easy way and mention see-dee-ree-cord.

;-)

wordsmith

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Jan 23, 2009, 3:18:15 PM1/23/09

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Nnnnooooooooooooooooohhhhh!!!!!!

--
poking dumbasses in the forehead, till my finger hurts.

Helmut Hullen

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Jan 23, 2009, 3:37:00 PM1/23/09

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Hallo, Mark,

Du meintest am 23.01.09:

>> In Germany there are two rights: "Urheberrecht" and
>> "Verwertungsrecht".
>>
>> "Verwertungsrecht": the author can give his work to a distributor
>> which sells the work.
>> "Urheberrecht": noone is allowed to relabel Patrick's work an tell
>> the people that he (and not Patrick) is the author.

> Stop trolling for Jörg Schilling!

??? Slackware uses the right stuff!
No product piracy ...

Mark Madsen

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Jan 23, 2009, 5:02:45 PM1/23/09

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On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:37:00 +0100, Helmut Hullen wrote:

> Du meintest am 23.01.09:
>
>>> In Germany there are two rights: "Urheberrecht" and
>>> "Verwertungsrecht".
>>>
>>> "Verwertungsrecht": the author can give his work to a distributor
>>> which sells the work.
>>> "Urheberrecht": noone is allowed to relabel Patrick's work an tell the
>>> people that he (and not Patrick) is the author.
>
>> Stop trolling for Jörg Schilling!
>
> ??? Slackware uses the right stuff!
> No product piracy ...

I mean the mention of Urherberrecht, Jörg loves going on about that.

Still, we might have gotten away with it this time, especially since you
didn't mention woe-dimm.... ;-)

Helmut Hullen

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Jan 23, 2009, 5:11:00 PM1/23/09

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Hallo, Mark,

Du meintest am 23.01.09:

>>>> In Germany there are two rights: "Urheberrecht" and
>>>> "Verwertungsrecht".

[...]

>> ??? Slackware uses the right stuff!
>> No product piracy ...

> I mean the mention of Urheberrecht, Jörg loves going on about that.

I know - in germany you should now this law.

> Still, we might have gotten away with it this time, especially since
> you didn't mention woe-dimm.... ;-)

That's right - I've only mentioned product piracy.

And in the wild west some farmers enriched themselves by overbranding
(is it the right expression?) other farmers' cattle.

JohnF

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Jan 25, 2009, 12:33:21 PM1/25/09

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Two Ravens <two-r...@operamail.org> wrote:
> No_One wrote:

>> Why would it require approval if it's open source?????
>

> To the best of my understanding, "open source" and 'free software'

> is still the copyright of its originator, <<snip>>

How is that interpreted for translations? As I understand it,
copyright refers to the specific expression, i.e., to the words used,
and not to the underlying idea being expressed. That's why
algorithms (like rsa) are patented, whereas code implementing them
is copyrighted. In the case of a translation, you're kind of
using entirely different words (obviously expressing the same idea).
So does the original copyright still apply?
--
John Forkosh ( mailto: j...@f.com where j=john and f=forkosh )

Beej Jorgensen

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Jan 25, 2009, 1:10:57 PM1/25/09

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JohnF <jo...@please.see.sig.for.email.com> wrote:
>How is that interpreted for translations? As I understand it,
>copyright refers to the specific expression, i.e., to the words used,
>and not to the underlying idea being expressed.

But there's also an "originality" test, which a strict translation
fails, making it a derivative work.

-Beej

Message has been deleted

Beej Jorgensen

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Jan 25, 2009, 2:07:35 PM1/25/09

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Two Ravens <two-r...@operamail.org> wrote:
>2) Would not a translator need to get the original authors permission to
>translate his original work?

To be pedantic: permission is not needed to translate, but to distribute
the translation, which is a "derivative work" because it lacks
originality. The translator doesn't hold copyright on the derivative
work.

Otherwise you could just take the most recent blockbuster best-selling
Spanish novel and translate it into English then sell it.

>As I said I have no idea, perhaps someone who has worked in publishing,
>particularly in the field of translated writings

I'm not a lawyer, but I researched it a bit when people wanted to
translate some stuff I'd written.

>would know, I left that industry in the early 1970's, and I cannot
>remember how it worked then, and have no idea how it works now.

1976 was a big year for copyright law changes in the US. :) And it has
even changed significantly since then.

-Beej

Message has been deleted

+Alan Hicks+

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Jan 26, 2009, 3:32:42 PM1/26/09

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2009-01-23, No_One <no_one@no_where.com> wrote:
>> Internationalizing it would be a real Herculean effort and would
>> require approval from Pat. I highly doubt anything will happen in this
>> area anytime soon.
>
> Why would it require approval if it's open source?????

I meant in order to get it included in Slackware or (possibly?) to call
it a translated Slackware installer. Of course you can do with it what
you want, but getting it pushed upstream would be a Herculean effort.

- --
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise,
Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:5
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No_One

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Jan 27, 2009, 1:03:58 AM1/27/09

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On 2009-01-26, +Alan Hicks+ <al...@lizella.netWORK> wrote:
>
> On 2009-01-23, No_One <no_one@no_where.com> wrote:
>>> Internationalizing it would be a real Herculean effort and would
>>> require approval from Pat. I highly doubt anything will happen in this
>>> area anytime soon.
>>
>> Why would it require approval if it's open source?????
>
> I meant in order to get it included in Slackware or (possibly?) to call
> it a translated Slackware installer. Of course you can do with it what
> you want, but getting it pushed upstream would be a Herculean effort.
>

I understand what you mean...

ken

Ali Bendriss

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Jan 27, 2009, 9:57:37 AM1/27/09

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Just for info, a french distrib based on slackware was arround between
95-2000. Try some key words search like "keops" "logiciel du soleil"

Ali

appzer0

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Feb 1, 2009, 1:03:22 PM2/1/09

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+Alan Hicks+ a écrit :

> Check /var/log/setup/ after fully installing Slackware. This should
> give you a complete list of optional[0] things that are run after
> package installation, but before leaving setup. Those scripts aren't
> what you'll need to translate, but they will point you to the right
> files.
>
> [0] Optional is a bit of a stretch. For example, you really need to run
> liloconfig after almost every installation.
>

Hi and thanks again for your directions. Actually the /var/log/setup
stays in the system just as it was before rebooting (once installation
has finished).

At the end of packages installation, setup calls all the scripts
included in each package the user wanted to install. In a 'typical'
installation (all but kde/ and kdei/ though), I found those scripts
coming for various packages:

mkfontdir -> slackware/x/mkfontdir-1.0.4-noarch-1.tgz
fontconfig -> slackware/x/fontconfig-2.6.0-i486-2.tgz
gutenprint -> slackware/ap/gutenprint-5.2.2-i486-3.tgz
update-desktop-database ->slackware/l/desktop-file-utils-0.15-i486-1.tgz
update-mime-database -> slackware/l/shared-mime-info-0.51-i486-1.tgz
gtk-update-icon-cache ->slackware/l/hicolor-icon-theme-0.10-noarch-4.tgz
install-kernel -> slackware/a/pkgtools-12.1.0-noarch-7.tgz
make-bootdisk -> slackware/a/pkgtools-12.1.0-noarch-7.tgz
htmlview -> slackware/a/pkgtools-12.1.0-noarch-7.tgz
liloconfig -> slackware/a/lilo-22.8-i486-14.tgz
mouse -> slackware/a/gpm-1.20.1-i486-5.tgz
netconfig -> slackware/n/network-scripts-12.2-noarch-4.tgz
services -> slackware/a/pkgtools-12.1.0-noarch-7.tgz
setconsolefont -> slackware/a/kbd-1.12-i486-2.tgz
timeconfig -> slackware/l/glibc-2.7-i486-17.tgz AND
slackware/l/glibc-zoneinfo-2.7-noarch-17.tgz
xwmconfig -> slackware/x/x11-skel-7.1-noarch-6.tgz

The difficulty resides in the fact that each package in Slackware may or
not may be modified by Pat/Slack team and/or may contain an additional
script (ncurses or whatever) to configure the package or to suit best to
Slack, so the scripts calls may vary pretty much depending on what the
user wants to be installed.

To be continued...

appzer0