Menu-ing system?

[Avoi...@gmail.com]

Remembering more arbitrary syntaxes is a childish wastefull effort.
Spreadsheets and eg. `mc` [derived from the DOS-days `nc`] are
killer-apps, because you don't need to remember; you just recognise.

The few scripted-menues that I've got are usefull. Eg.
FOR ANY `df` select:
A[propos L[ocate cH[root M[c C[d ...
are quiet usefull. But now I'm needing a-memu-of-menues.

So, I'm looking for more powerful tools.
And I vaguely remember: early Slakware had <dialog> which
was a scripted menu-system. Now I can't find it.

What I want to make is MY version of `info` which can morph
as my knowledge, usage changes. This is the kind of stuff that
I hate:-----------
Usage: dialog <Common options> <Box options>
{ --and-widget <Common options> <Box options> }

Common options: <Global options>
[--backtitle <backtitle>] [--sleep <secs>] [--beep] [--beep-after]
[--clear] [--begin <y> <x>] [--aspect <ratio>] [--print-size]
[--print-maxsize] [--size-err] [--separate-output] [--cr-wrap]
[--tab-len <n>] [--tab-correct] [--print-version] [--no-kill]
[--title <title>]
---------------
Instead of pasting snippets out of `man/S`, I want menu-selected
strings to be concatenated to <somewhere>.

At the extreme, I'm not convinced that syntax-directed-coders
are impractical.

Who knows of such [or near] tools?

== TIA.

[Trygve S]

Den 10. des. 2012 14:07, skrev Avoi...@gmail.com:
> Remembering more arbitrary syntaxes is a childish wastefull effort.
> Spreadsheets and eg. `mc` [derived from the DOS-days `nc`] are
> killer-apps, because you don't need to remember; you just recognise.
>
> The few scripted-menues that I've got are usefull. Eg.
> FOR ANY `df` select:
> A[propos L[ocate cH[root M[c C[d ...
> are quiet usefull. But now I'm needing a-memu-of-menues.
>
> So, I'm looking for more powerful tools.
> And I vaguely remember: early Slakware had <dialog> which
> was a scripted menu-system. Now I can't find it.

You find it here: slackware-14.0/slackware/a/dialog-1.1_20100428i486.txz

[Grant]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:07:57 +0000 (UTC), Avoi...@gmail.com wrote:

>Remembering more arbitrary syntaxes is a childish wastefull effort.
>Spreadsheets and eg. `mc` [derived from the DOS-days `nc`] are
>killer-apps, because you don't need to remember; you just recognise.

You've been here before, in a different guise... <plonk>

[Michael Black]

Or what's hisname's repalcement for a GUI desktop.

Michael

[Michael Black]

Or he could just set up a webpage with the desired applications, and set
Lynx to be able to execute commands.

I've ony looked at MC, since I started using Lynx five years before I
first ran Linux. It's a great browser, it's a great filesystem browser
too. And since it can be configured to execute programs, one just has to
make up a local webpage with the "menu" and use Lynx. Put some notes on
the webpage with the commands. But of course, one either ends up with
endless pages of commands, or this only handles the common apps and
utilities, and then the others are forgotten.

Michael

[Mike Spencer]

Avoi...@gmail.com writes:

> Remembering more arbitrary syntaxes is a childish wastefull effort.
> Spreadsheets and eg. `mc` [derived from the DOS-days `nc`] are
> killer-apps, because you don't need to remember; you just recognise.

Command line, including complex syntax, is like language.

Menus are like shopping.

Slackware might be the wrong sandbox for you.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

[John F. Morse]

+1 Very good definitions!


--
John

When a person has -- whether they knew it or not -- already
rejected the Truth, by what means do they discern a lie?

[Dan C]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:07:57 +0000, Avoid9Pdf trolled:

> Remembering more arbitrary syntaxes is a childish wastefull effort.
> Spreadsheets and eg. `mc` [derived from the DOS-days `nc`] are
> killer-apps, because you don't need to remember; you just recognise.

Bugger off, troll.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he declared his horse a Senator.
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Thanks, Obama: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/politica/thanks.jpg

[Avoi...@gmail.com]

In article <ka662h$h26$2...@n102.xanadu-bbs.net>, "John F. Morse" <jo...@example.invalid> wrote:

> Mike Spencer wrote:
> > Avoi...@gmail.com writes:
> >
> >> Remembering more arbitrary syntaxes is a childish wastefull effort.
> >> Spreadsheets and eg. `mc` [derived from the DOS-days `nc`] are
> >> killer-apps, because you don't need to remember; you just recognise.
> >>
> >
> > Command line, including complex syntax, is like language.
> >

The ambiguity of natural-language is exactly what I want to avoid.

> > Menus are like shopping.
> >
> > Slackware might be the wrong sandbox for you.
> >
>
> +1 Very good definitions!

It may be fun for beginners, but when you've come via
transistors, MSS, 8bit-uProcs, HexCode, Asm ...
it's very difficult to sustain the illusion that you're
communicating with the-little-man-in-the-machine,
via near-english-notes.

Imagine that when you entered a lift/elevator,
instead of pushing <the number of the floor required>,
you had to type a little note.

[John F. Morse]

Avoi...@gmail.com wrote:
> In article <ka662h$h26$2...@n102.xanadu-bbs.net>, "John F. Morse" <jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>> Mike Spencer wrote:
>>
>>> Avoi...@gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Remembering more arbitrary syntaxes is a childish wastefull effort.
>>>> Spreadsheets and eg. `mc` [derived from the DOS-days `nc`] are
>>>> killer-apps, because you don't need to remember; you just recognise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Command line, including complex syntax, is like language.
>>>
>>>
> The ambiguity of natural-language is exactly what I want to avoid.
>
>
>>> Menus are like shopping.
>>>
>>> Slackware might be the wrong sandbox for you.
>>>
>>>
>> +1 Very good definitions!
>>
>
> It may be fun for beginners, but when you've come via
> transistors, MSS, 8bit-uProcs, HexCode, Asm ...
> it's very difficult to sustain the illusion that you're
> communicating with the-little-man-in-the-machine,
> via near-english-notes.
>

I'm certainly not a "beginner."

How about vacuum tubes and relays, 4-bit CPUs, hex, octal, binary,...
several assemblers, plus straight machine code.

Came through the Apple ][ and Mac path too.

There is no illusion, except what Microsoft and Apple spew.

> Imagine that when you entered a lift/elevator,
> instead of pushing <the number of the floor required>,
> you had to type a little note.
>

Pushing the floor button is CLI.

Telling the elevator operator to go "up" by pointing up, is GUI.

[Loki Harfagr]

Tue, 11 Dec 2012 06:11:42 +0000, Avoid9Pdf did cat :

worse, you want to activate the button but you've been windozeighted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flV0oqCLj6Y

with the slack way you'd unscrew the wires and short circuit
your way to the eleventh floor ;-)

[Joe Rosevear]

Do you write shell scripts or functions? These are great ways to do
what the OP was asking for. They persist beyond the first use. They
compress syntax. And, something the OP didn't ask for, they
self-document.

If you write a script or function (a tool) to do something that has
hard to remember syntax, then it can serve both as a tool and as a way
of remembering how to do it.

The trick is to organize one's tools to make them easy to find and use.
I find I also need a few sentences to remind me how to use each tool.
My personal system (called SAM) does these things. I think of it as a
menuing system, because one of the tools in it is a script called
"menu". When you run it a menu of the currently available tools, and
short descriptions of how to use them, is displayed.

My SAM is available on Source Forge. Here is a link

http://sourceforge.net/projects/sam-kernel/

So, give it a try, but I have to warn you that I'm overdue in updating
the Source Forge project. Sorry!


--
http://JosephRosevear.com
http://RosevearSoftware.com

[Michael Black]

On Tue, 12 Dec 2012, Joe Rosevear wrote:

> Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>>
>> Avoi...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>>> Remembering more arbitrary syntaxes is a childish wastefull effort.
>>> Spreadsheets and eg. `mc` [derived from the DOS-days `nc`] are
>>> killer-apps, because you don't need to remember; you just recognise.
>>
>> Command line, including complex syntax, is like language.
>>
>> Menus are like shopping.
>>
>> Slackware might be the wrong sandbox for you.
>>
>
> Do you write shell scripts or functions? These are great ways to do
> what the OP was asking for. They persist beyond the first use. They
> compress syntax. And, something the OP didn't ask for, they
> self-document.
>
> If you write a script or function (a tool) to do something that has
> hard to remember syntax, then it can serve both as a tool and as a way
> of remembering how to do it.
>
> The trick is to organize one's tools to make them easy to find and use.
> I find I also need a few sentences to remind me how to use each tool.
> My personal system (called SAM) does these things. I think of it as a
> menuing system, because one of the tools in it is a script called
> "menu". When you run it a menu of the currently available tools, and
> short descriptions of how to use them, is displayed.
>

But Linux has "locate" which is one of the most useful things the book I
followed to install Slackware left me with. The man pages often point to
related utilities, so if you can almost remember the command, you may
remember something similar and the man page for it points you to the right
place.

You can keep notes. I've kept a log since 2006, it requires some
searching but usually I remember something that finds the right place. it
doens't help for things I have yet to try, but helps for things I've
already done (and the needed flags). I might eventually put some of it in
a custom man page, but maybe not.

Linux is massive. Put everything in a menu, and you don't come out ahead.
Learn to use the tools to help you to find things, and you are better off.
Make a limited menu system, and then you end up with the utilities that
you would remember anyway, since they are the ones you use regularly,
while forgetting the things you dont' use often (like how to make a CD, I
had to look in my notes in October when I needed to do that for the first
time in some years).

Michael

[Joe Rosevear]

Yes, use locate. Good command. Yes, use man pages. Yes look for the
related utilities mentioned in the pages. You didn't mention
"apropos". Another great way to find what you want.

> You can keep notes. I've kept a log since 2006, it requires some
> searching but usually I remember something that finds the right place. it
> doens't help for things I have yet to try, but helps for things I've
> already done (and the needed flags). I might eventually put some of it in
> a custom man page, but maybe not.

Yes, keep notes. Lots of notes.

> Linux is massive. Put everything in a menu, and you don't come out ahead.

Right. Don't put everything in a menu. That would be an silly task.

> Learn to use the tools to help you to find things, and you are better off.
> Make a limited menu system, and then you end up with the utilities that
> you would remember anyway, since they are the ones you use regularly,
> while forgetting the things you dont' use often (like how to make a CD, I
> had to look in my notes in October when I needed to do that for the first
> time in some years).

Maybe your memory is better than mine, but I know that I cannot
remember all the syntax that I need to use. I get tired of looking it
up over and over. It is a waste of time. So instead when there is
some bit of syntax that I use repeatedly *and cannot remember or is too
long to bother typing*, then I put it in a script or function. I then
document the tool by making an entry in the text file that will be used
by SAM.

So, now I have this albatross called SAM to deal with, you say. It's a
trade. I often wonder if it is a good one. I've been working on SAM
since about 1980. Probably I've spent more time developing SAM than
what I've saved by not having to look things up.

> Michael
>

But what about scripts and functions? If you did write them, how would
you organize them?

-Joe

[jo...@wexfordpress.com]

On Dec 12, 10:28 pm, Joe Rosevear <Joe_Rosev...@localhost.invalid>
wrote:

> Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Dec 2012, Joe Rosevear wrote:
>
> >> Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>

If I needed to create a set of nested menus I would probably turn to
Tcl/Tk. But
I don't feel the need for menus beyond what already exist.

John Culleton

[no.to...@gmail.com]

It's not that I was just thinking 'perhaps menus would help'.
It's that I KNOW that menus are like the difference between
walking-to-timbuktoo and airlining-there; a good example being `mc`.

But I was again astounded at the power [and wondering why others don't follow]
of my recent menu-efforts, eg. to help me decode/understand this code-snippet:
> Change the root file system to /dev/hda1 from an interactive shell:
>
> mount /dev/hda1 /new-root
> cd /new-root
> pivot_root . old-root
> exec chroot . sh <dev/console >dev/console 2>&1
> umount /old-root
[it's mainly the fd redirection that's got me screwed]

So I immeditely thought "where's my menu/util" about <fd redirection>.
And I suspect it's in some-old <BashTut>.
So 'menu-wise' `F1` means <find recently accessed stuff re. 1-arg>.
And to search on both <Bash> & <Tut>, I enter: `F1 ash | grep ut`.
which gives me:------
uncompressed, takes up about 35MB on flash)
uncompressed, takes up about 8MB on flash)
/mnt/p3/usr/local/LNO-FB/Bash.Tut
makes a boo-boo, that's unfortunate, but if the Field Mashal makes
/home/Softwr/bashTut 7;0
-----------

And "/mnt/p3/" is a way-out non-slak partition/installation.
So the very little/short F1 script gives me massive reach into my past work.
`locate ut | grep ash` is OK, but won't easily reach into other installations,
nor has it the recent time/history aspect.

You don't want the <cat `which F1` | wc -l> == 9 sparse-lines of F1
because you don't use `mc` and some other menus of mine which
F1 looks into.

But, believe me menus are magic.

Thanks.

PS. here's a similar code-snippet that slays me:--
cat << EOF >> $TMP/tmpscript.sh
2> $TMP/output
if [ ! \$? = 0 ]; then
rm -f $TMP/output
echo "Canceled."
exit
fi
EOF
-------------------
Is StdErr redirected to $TMP/output
WHEN/IF $TMP/tmpscript.sh is run,
which running possibly removes $TMP/output
??

For `dialog` or `whiplash` which apparently outputs to stdErr,
how do I get the output to /tmp/MYfile ?!

== TIA.