HATING Linux: Installation Can't Find CD ROM
Bob Bronson
I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
market share of the desktop.
I was hoping someone could explain what could be causing this
ridiculous error.
I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at
eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1. When I try to install I get an error
message, "No CDROM Device Found". This message appears on the main
(i.e., Alt-F1) installation console. Why should I get this message when
Linux is actually installing from the CD ROM? Of course there's a CD
ROM!!
Here is a partial list of the log messages from the log (i.e., Alt-F3)
console:
* AUTOMATIC: parameter cdrom for method means returning CDROM drive
* have to insmod ide-cd
* needs cdrom
* needs ide-cd
* succeeded ide-cd
* looking for ide media
* have to insmod sr_mod
* needs scsi_mod
* needs sr_mod
* succeeded sr_mod
There are a few more messages but I think the ones above are relevant.
None of the (very informative) messages indicate any errors. The last
message I see is:
* unsetting automatic
What the heck could be causing this? I've installed Windows on many,
many different machines and I never have problems. Every time I try to
approach Linux it seems some weird error occurs. I'm on the verge of
going back to Windows (oh, excuse me, WindDOZE).
If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Sorry for my snotty attitude,
please understand my frustration at wanting to shoot that penguin.
Thanks
Peter
> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at
> eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
>
> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1. When I try to install I get an error
> message, "No CDROM Device Found". This message appears on the main
> (i.e., Alt-F1) installation console. Why should I get this message when
> Linux is actually installing from the CD ROM? Of course there's a CD
> ROM!!
the CD).
It could be that the installer doesn't have drivers for your CD drive. You
could search on your specific model of CD drive, this may find a fix.
Some distros can boot off CD2 with different drivers.
Otherwise, try Mandriva 10.2. Since it is later release, it may have
updated drivers.
HTH
Peter
dave stanton
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
Just as an aside, how do you know this ?. Linux is free to copy and
distribute, so no one knows how many desktop installs there are. Don't
believe everything you read especially from big companies with money to
protect.
Dave
Dave
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
Jeez, these sort of posts don't alter or produce any new insults, do they?
> I was hoping someone could explain what could be causing this
> ridiculous error.
Obscure CD drive perhaps? Low quality CD media perhaps?
> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
> MICRO-STAR MS-7145.
Very nice. And the CD drive..?
> This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new eMachines T6520,
> straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at eMachines.
"eMachines"... say no more...:
http://www.emachines.com/products/products.html?prod=eMachines_T6520
No hints of any hardware brands or model numbers, so there's very little
we can offer apart from the obvious that's mentioned above.
> BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
Somehow I can't see that statement being true.
> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1. When I try to install I get an error
> message, "No CDROM Device Found". This message appears on the main
> (i.e., Alt-F1) installation console. Why should I get this message when
> Linux is actually installing from the CD ROM? Of course there's a CD
> ROM!!
Guess who's going to either cough up for a proper CD drive or is going to
return to Windows?
... or even use decent CD media?
Laugh all you want. My installation disc of MDK10.1 is on a DVD-RW, which
my DVD reader is fussy about. Time the media access right and the reader
will behave. Mis-time the media access by a second or two, the reader will
fail to see the media.
My solution to that? I'll be sticking 10.1 onto some decent DVD media.
> Here is a partial list of the log messages from the log (i.e., Alt-F3)
> console:
>
> * AUTOMATIC: parameter cdrom for method means returning CDROM drive
> * have to insmod ide-cd
> * needs cdrom
> * needs ide-cd
> * succeeded ide-cd
> * looking for ide media
> * have to insmod sr_mod
> * needs scsi_mod
> * needs sr_mod
> * succeeded sr_mod
>
> There are a few more messages but I think the ones above are relevant.
> None of the (very informative) messages indicate any errors. The last
> message I see is:
>
> * unsetting automatic
>
> What the heck could be causing this?
More information might be required. Sorry.
> I've installed Windows on many, many different machines and I never have
> problems.
No, I really do doubt that statement too.
> Every time I try to approach Linux it seems some weird error occurs.
Weird because you've not seen the error before? Maybe that's because
you're new to Linux?
> I'm on the verge of going back to Windows
Cool.
> (oh, excuse me, WindDOZE).
There's an amusing line to be got from here, but I can't quite grasp it.
> If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Sorry for my snotty attitude,
> please understand my frustration at wanting to shoot that penguin.
See, the thing is, "the penguin" (aka Linux) tends to bite if its forced
into doing something it doesn't like, or if tempers get raised.
--
Linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
AOLM FAQ - http://blinkynet.net/comp/faq_aolm.html
RLU #300033 - MDK 10.1 - WindowMaker 0.90.0
Herman Viaene
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
>
> I was hoping someone could explain what could be causing this
> ridiculous error.
>
> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at
> eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
>
> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1. When I try to install I get an error
> message, "No CDROM Device Found". This message appears on the main
> (i.e., Alt-F1) installation console. Why should I get this message when
> Linux is actually installing from the CD ROM? Of course there's a CD
> ROM!!
From experience:
I have a similar PC (MSI motherboard , AMD 64 Athlon, SATA disks) and I had
unsurmountable problems with it as well with 10.1 (BTW: it is the x86-64
version of 10.1 you got, right?) and I had to wait until LE2005 came out,
then no probs at all anymore. It might be worthwile doing the same.
Herman Viaene
Stanislaw Flatto
Bob Bronson wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
Hi!
When working with numbers it helps to be precise.
[deletia]
> If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Sorry for my snotty attitude,
> please understand my frustration at wanting to shoot that penguin.
>
> Thanks
Been there, done it!
From what I understood you have the distribution on CD's, burned under
MS_Glassware.
My suggestion - burn the first ISO again, but in proper Penguin fashion
tell the computer to do it at the _slowest_ burning speed. (your burning
software listens to such orders).
If this improves the overall response, do likeways with the rest of the
ISO's.
Happened to me, so now I can give advice;^)
Have fun
Stanislaw
Slack user from Ulladulla.
Tux
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
>
> I was hoping someone could explain what could be causing this
> ridiculous error.
>
> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at
> eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
>
> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1. When I try to install I get an error
> message, "No CDROM Device Found".
Sounds like it doesn't like your CDROM drive, I have a machine that always
does much the same. I put a spare drive on the system in order to install
from and then take it back off after. Yes that sounds odd to remove it
later but every distribution from 7.1 to 10.1 has done the same and after
install the existing drive works fine. As it's only used as a file server
the 4x CDROM drive is perfectly adequate to leave in. Usually you receive
errors with reading the packages if there is an issue with the media or how
it was written.
You could always try using the ftp install method if you have network
connection during installation. You can also make a boot floppy/CD and
install directly from the iso file sitting in your Windows partition by
telling it where to find the files on your system, it's easy enough to
follow the instructions on screen.
Have you thought about testing your system with one of the many live CD's
that are available before you try a full install. MandrakeLive, Knoppix,
Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS to name but a few. Knoppix certainly comes in 32 and 64
bit varieties.
Andrew Ed
Andrew Ed
I have been tweaking away and just noticed I left the identity as Tux, as I
usually use one of two other machines not this one for newsgroups.
Brain fade on a Sunday morning
Andrew Ed
Luca T.
[CUT]
1) Get rid of your "snotty attitude", you won't get much help if you
keep insulting Linux and its community, keep in mind that here no one is
paid to answer to you
2) Download the latest Mandriva 10.2
3) Burn it on a working media
If the error is still there then it is possible that Linux does not have
the drivers for your IDE controller or CDROM drive.
This usually happens when non-standard IDE controllers are used (on many
motherboards there are at least two ide controllers with two IDE
connectors each, a standard controller and a fast controller, the fast
controller usually requires drivers to work but many of them are already
included in Linux, that's why you should try the latest version of
Mandriva.
The CDROM does not need to be connected on the fast controller since
CDROM drives are usually slow anyways. So, try plugging your CDROM drive
into a different IDE controller. If it keeps not working even using a
different IDE controller then it might be a problem with the drivers of
the CDROM (but i doubt it), in that case try using a different CDROM drive.
Bye,
Luca
Dan C
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
...Yawn... Everyone say hello to the newest Win-Troll on the block.
> I was hoping someone could explain what could be causing this
> ridiculous error.
I'd have to guess the dumbass behind the keyboard.
> eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
Riiiigghhhttt.
> What the heck could be causing this? I've installed Windows on many,
> many different machines and I never have problems. Every time I try to
Others have told you, and Google holds the answer too.
> approach Linux it seems some weird error occurs. I'm on the verge of
> going back to Windows (oh, excuse me, WindDOZE).
Good. Go back. You are not capable of using Linux.
> If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Sorry for my snotty attitude,
> please understand my frustration at wanting to shoot that penguin.
Your attitude sucks. You're frustrated because you're stupid. Run along.
--
All posts that originate from Google Groups are ignored.
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
Glenn
news:pan.2005.09.11....@invalid.lan
> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 00:50:09 -0500, Bob Bronson wrote:
>> If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Sorry for my snotty attitude,
>> please understand my frustration at wanting to shoot that penguin.
>
> Your attitude sucks. You're frustrated because you're stupid. Run
> along.
You missed your cue and are late. Shame on him for not kneeling to you. He
didn't even offer to kiss your ring.
Go to the penalty box and miss 2 chances to run the guy off.
Oh yes, we do understand each other. (G)
Luca T.
> You missed your cue and are late. Shame on him for not kneeling to
> you. He didn't even offer to kiss your ring.
If the OP wanted help he wouldn't have used the words he did use.
A reply like the one Dan gave him is perfectly understandable... or
would you help someone that rings at your door bell and when you ask
what he wants he pisses on your carpet before even saying "hello"?
Bye,
Luca
matt_left_coast
Of course there is nothing that was said that even comes close to "pisses on
your carpet". The OP had a legitimate complaint with a version of the
distro I had many problems with. I see a little frustration being vented
but no real pissing on the carpet. What I see is the thin skinned "experts"
here showing their true colors again.
--
In Message-ID <da1uu2x...@news.gates-of-hell.com>, the truth comes out.
Seems nobody can back up the claim that *I* am the one that always has to
be right! Despite not having proof, Sinner insists that he is right. Seems
the accusers are far more guilty than the accused!
Dan C
>> Your attitude sucks. You're frustrated because you're stupid. Run
>> along.
> You missed your cue and are late. Shame on him for not kneeling to you. He
> didn't even offer to kiss your ring.
Kiss my ass, win-boy. You're a well known wintroll, and just as ignorant
as this latest dipshit.
> Oh yes, we do understand each other. (G)
Yes, I'm sure you and he do understand each other. Go away doofus.
matt_left_coast
> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:27:37 +0000, Glenn wrote:
>
>>> Your attitude sucks. You're frustrated because you're stupid. Run
>>> along.
>
>> You missed your cue and are late. Shame on him for not kneeling to you.
>> He didn't even offer to kiss your ring.
>
> Kiss my ass, win-boy. You're a well known wintroll, and just as ignorant
> as this latest dipshit.
>
>> Oh yes, we do understand each other. (G)
>
> Yes, I'm sure you and he do understand each other. Go away doofus.
>
Dan's "new leaf" strikes again!
Luca T.
> Of course there is nothing that was said that even comes close to "pisses on
> your carpet". The OP had a legitimate complaint with a version of the
> distro I had many problems with. I see a little frustration being vented
> but no real pissing on the carpet. What I see is the thin skinned "experts"
> here showing their true colors again.
And it is their right to do so.
He started his thread with a CLEAR provocation (not only the subject,
read the first 3 lines), typical of trolls, if you cannot see it it is
not my fault.
I do believe that this guy is just a troll seeking for attention, i
answered to him just because there might be a slight possibility that he
is just a frustrated user, but i do really believe that he is just a
troll so i can perfectly understand if another user of the group calls
him with his name: "troll".
If you want help you don't go to the persons that can help you and start
insulting them and their job with sentences like the ones that this guy
used. The only thing he would have got in real life would be a punch on
his nose, and it is what he deserves.
And YES, coming here with a sentence like "I'm new at Linux and I'm
quickly starting to see why it only has a 3% market share of the
desktop." is EXACTLY like pissing on the carpet.
Bye,
Luca
matt_left_coast
> matt_left_coast wrote:
>> Of course there is nothing that was said that even comes close to "pisses
>> on your carpet". The OP had a legitimate complaint with a version of the
>> distro I had many problems with. I see a little frustration being vented
>> but no real pissing on the carpet. What I see is the thin skinned
>> "experts" here showing their true colors again.
>
> And it is their right to do so.
> He started his thread with a CLEAR provocation (not only the subject,
> read the first 3 lines), typical of trolls, if you cannot see it it is
> not my fault.
I see frustration and I see an ego from you that will not quit. The guy
can't even get the OS installed, it is perfectly understandable that he is
"hating Linux". I would be as well. If you can't understand that, then I
feel sorry for you and your lack of understanding and compation.
> I do believe that this guy is just a troll seeking for attention, i
> answered to him just because there might be a slight possibility that he
> is just a frustrated user, but i do really believe that he is just a
> troll so i can perfectly understand if another user of the group calls
> him with his name: "troll".
I see him as a frustrated person that can not get the OS installed. I had
the SAME problem with the version he is trying. I understand his
frustration and if it was my first experience with Linux, I would be hating
it as well. I'll bet that if it was YOUR first experience and you could not
even get installed, you would not be much better. I base this on your large
capacity to JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.
>
> If you want help you don't go to the persons that can help you and start
> insulting them
where did he insult ANYONE? He made some comments about LINUX a THING, but
NOT about any person. This is an example of exactly why I think you are out
of line.
> and their job with sentences like the ones that this guy
> used. The only thing he would have got in real life would be a punch on
> his nose, and it is what he deserves.
>
This group levels a whole lot of unjust accusations, yours seems to be
little more than an ego trip of a so called expert from this group.
> And YES, coming here with a sentence like "I'm new at Linux and I'm
> quickly starting to see why it only has a 3% market share of the
> desktop." is EXACTLY like pissing on the carpet.
BULL SHIT. It is no wonder that you are reacting with such venom when you
can't tell the difference between words and destructive physical
activities. The user vented understandable frustration and it is
understandable.
>
> Bye,
> Luca
Bob Bronson
news:pan.2005.09.11....@privacy.net...
Keep in mind I was referring to DESKTOP installations, not SERVER.
Your point is well taken -- there was a survey by IDC that indicated
Linux desktops account for about 3% of all desktops in 2003. As you
alluded to, this survey only considers systems that are SHIPPED from
manufacturers. It does not consider people who got fed up with Windows
and downloaded Linux....nor does it consider people who purchased a
pre-installed Linux system, got fed up (like me) with Linux, and went
back to Windows.
I want Linux to be successful on the desktop but when I compare Linux
installation to Windows installation, Linux is still in the Stone Age.
I don't like to say that, but it's been my honest experience.
Requiring a user to download CD ROM drivers is ridiculous. The last
time I had to do that with Windows was in 1994, Windows 3.1.
I want to like Linux but I think the Linux community needs to spend
more time noticing what Microsoft did right and less time referring to
Windows as "WinDOZE".
Bob Bronson
I didn't mean to evoke such hostility from some of you.
Try to understand my frustration -- the last time I had problems with a
Windows installation was probably in the 20th ccentury, but I never had
sucha fundamental problem as a CD ROM drive not being recognized (I
take that back -- in 1994 I had that problem with a Windows
installation).
As far as my machine being a eMachine, so what? I thought Linux ran on
billions of platforms. This is one of the wonderful things always
touted by the Linux community. The machine is not crap, the components
are all new. Please don't blame the machine. I WAS able to get SuSE 10
installed so that tells me that the problem is with the installation
(i.e., hardware detection, drivers, etc.), not with Linux, per se.
I want to like Linux, really I do. This Mandrake installation is the
the fourth distro I've attempted. Three of the four have had different
problems. As I mentioned, SuSE worked fine, for the most part. Can you
see why I am down on Linux? I'm not trying to upset anyone and I DO
appreciate the help some people offered.
As for Dan C., you need to grow up, little boy.
Bob Bronson
news:4323...@news.maxnet.co.nz...
> Bob Bronson wrote:
>> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
>> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively
>> new
>> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at
>> eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
>>
>> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1. When I try to install I get an
>> error
>> message, "No CDROM Device Found". This message appears on the main
>> (i.e., Alt-F1) installation console. Why should I get this message
>> when
>> Linux is actually installing from the CD ROM? Of course there's a CD
>> ROM!!
>
> I assume that the PC booted off the CD ok (so you BIOS is set to boot
> off
> the CD).
Yes, that's right.
> It could be that the installer doesn't have drivers for your CD
> drive. You
> could search on your specific model of CD drive, this may find a fix.
But how am I supposed to know if it's a driver problem? There's nothing
in the log messages that would indicate that. It would just be a guess.
Second, if I *DID* want to use a different CD driver how the heck would
I integrate that into the CD? How do I tell the installation, "Here,
use this driver instead."?
But thanks for the response, I appreciate it.
Bob Bronson
"Dan C" <youmust...@invalid.lan> wrote in message
> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 00:50:09 -0500, Bob Bronson wrote:
>
>> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a
>> 3%
>> market share of the desktop.
>> going back to Windows (oh, excuse me, WindDOZE).
>
> Good. Go back. You are not capable of using Linux.
>
Yes, that's exactly my point. You see, Linux can never be really
popular on the desktop until it is accessible to *ALL* people, not just
the intellectually elite, like Dan. C.
Luca T.
[CUT]
Welcome to my killfile.
Bye,
Luca
Luca T.
[CUT]
Welcome to my killfile, troll.
Bye,
Luca
Gireesh K. Bhat
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
Uhmm...how does this statement help us determine what help you need?
> I was hoping someone could explain what could be causing this
> ridiculous error.
>
> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at
> eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
Because you have an OEM version that Emachine made sure works with it.
Ever tried getting help from Microsoft?
> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1.
Why did you choose 10.1? Did you check the latest version of
Mandrake/driva available?
>When I try to install I get an error
> message, "No CDROM Device Found". This message appears on the main
> (i.e., Alt-F1) installation console. Why should I get this message when
> Linux is actually installing from the CD ROM? Of course there's a CD
> ROM!!
Of course! Did you use google to check if others have had this problem and
how they solved it?
> Here is a partial list of the log messages from the log (i.e., Alt-F3)
> console:
>
> * AUTOMATIC: parameter cdrom for method means returning CDROM drive *
> have to insmod ide-cd
> * needs cdrom
> * needs ide-cd
> * succeeded ide-cd
> * looking for ide media
> * have to insmod sr_mod
> * needs scsi_mod
> * needs sr_mod
> * succeeded sr_mod
>
> There are a few more messages but I think the ones above are relevant.
> None of the (very informative) messages indicate any errors. The last
> message I see is:
>
> * unsetting automatic
>
> What the heck could be causing this? I've installed Windows on many,
> many different machines and I never have problems.
Never ever? Ever tried installing XP OEM on a machine with SATA HDDs and
no floppy drive?
>Every time I try to
> approach Linux it seems some weird error occurs. I'm on the verge of
> going back to Windows (oh, excuse me, WindDOZE).
Uhmmm.. again....how does this statement help us determine what help you
need?
> If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Sorry for my snotty attitude,
then why not tone down your language so that it comes across as less
offensive?
Peter
> But how am I supposed to know if it's a driver problem? There's nothing
> in the log messages that would indicate that. It would just be a guess.
As I suggested, you could try a search on your exact model of CD drive.
Sometimes this picks up chatter by developers nutting out new drivers,
which can help confirm the situation and maybe indicate a solution.
The problem here is that manufacturers provide drivers for Windos but not
for Linux, so there's a lag while OSS developers figure these out.
> Second, if I *DID* want to use a different CD driver how the heck would
> I integrate that into the CD? How do I tell the installation, "Here,
> use this driver instead."?
Sometimes the installer has a facility for you to provide additional drivers
(eg from floppy), via a start option, when starting the installer. I don't
know if 10.1 has this.
In your situation, I'd try again with 10.2 (aka 2005LE).
HTH
Peter
Aragorn
following words to the masses...:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
The tone of that statement is not exactly a guarantee that whatever you
say next will be taken seriously by the people on this group... as you
can see for yourself...
First of all, your numbers are wrong. Secondly, Gnu/Linux is not the
right operating system for a great deal of people because those people
are only looking for an alternative platform for Windows.
These people are usually better off sticking to Windows, because
Gnu/Linux is a UNIX clone - _not_ a Windows-competitor! - and therefore
requires that the user becomes a bit more computerfriendly, i.e. that
the user uses the grey mass in his skull a bit more.
> I was hoping someone could explain what could be causing this
> ridiculous error.
>
> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box.
For the record, things that are _very_ new /may/ cause problems, because
the Linux kernel team must first _purchase_ new hardware in order to
reverse-engineer driver modules for it, which is not the case for
Microsoft.
> Please don't laugh at eMachines. BTW, this machine works great
> w/Windows -- zero problems.
I don't know first thing about eMachines, so I'm not going to comment on
that. However, that something works with Windows is somewhat of an
ambiguous statement. It could mean that you were supplied with
Windows-specific drivers for special hardware.
On the other hand, things always *seem* to work well with Windows - i.e.
without any "complaints" from Windows - simply because Windows doesn't
bother to make an inventory of the _working_ hardware in your system.
It simply catalogs the hardware, whether it works or not.
That is why it sometimes finds itself in quite of a panic when it tries
to access broken hardware, with as crash as the result.
> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1.
Did you verify the /md5sums/ on the downloaded /.iso/ against those of
the /.iso/ on the mirror? They must match, or else your download was
corrupted.
I bet you skipped that step... ;-)
> When I try to install I get an error message, "No CDROM Device Found".
> This message appears on the main (i.e., Alt-F1) installation console.
> Why should I get this message when Linux is actually installing from
> the CD ROM? Of course there's a CD ROM!!
Would this CD-ROM by any chance be connected to an SATA controller?
> Here is a partial list of the log messages from the log (i.e., Alt-F3)
> console:
>
> * AUTOMATIC: parameter cdrom for method means returning CDROM drive
> * have to insmod ide-cd
Weird. The driver for IDE CD's and DVD's should already be built into
the kernel, i.e. it shouldn't require a module.
> * needs cdrom
> * needs ide-cd
> * succeeded ide-cd
> * looking for ide media
> * have to insmod sr_mod
> * needs scsi_mod
> * needs sr_mod
> * succeeded sr_mod
Again weird... Unless you do have an SATA CD drive. They are
considered to be SCSI devices by the kernel.
> There are a few more messages but I think the ones above are relevant.
> None of the (very informative) messages indicate any errors. The last
> message I see is:
>
> * unsetting automatic
>
> What the heck could be causing this? I've installed Windows on many,
> many different machines and I never have problems.
Then you are extremely lucky. <grin>
> Every time I try to approach Linux it seems some weird error occurs.
Maybe there's a bug in between the chair and the monitor? ;-þ
> I'm on the verge of going back to Windows (oh, excuse me, WindDOZE).
Don't let us stop you. If you love Windows that much, why bother trying
to install Gnu/Linux at all?
See, the main difference between Windows users and Gnu/Linux users is
that the latter actually chose to have that operating system on their
hard disk(s). The first ones only accepted what they were being set up
with by the hardware vendors, who are in league with Microsoft.
> If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Sorry for my snotty attitude,
> please understand my frustration at wanting to shoot that penguin.
If your problem is related to SATA, then I would strongly suggest
getting LE2005 instead of 10.1. Also check your hardware for defects,
and don't rely on Windows to tell you that there aren't any.
--
With kind regards,
*Aragorn*
(Registered Gnu/Linux user #223157)
David Aldred
>
> I want Linux to be successful on the desktop but when I compare Linux
> installation to Windows installation, Linux is still in the Stone Age.
> I don't like to say that, but it's been my honest experience.
>
Hmm.
Recent dual-boot install on a machine here:in each case to get machine
working, peripherals supported, networking running and office suite
installed.
Linux: 55 minutes. One reboot. Included copying all rpms onto HDD to speed
up later access. Incidentally installed several games, graphics suite, two
web browsers and various other stuff.
Windows: around 2 hours - (gave up watching it grind several times so may
have missed the right moment to click 'reboot your machine now'). Lost
count of the reboots after the first half dozen. Couple of games, no
graphics suite, no extras.
Now, what was your point again?
--
David Aldred
Tony Sivori
>
> I didn't mean to evoke such hostility from some of you.
You're acting like people here owe you technical support. They don't. If
anyone helps you, it is because they want to help, not because they are
paid to or because they are obligated to help. So if you want helpful
responses, quit directing your frustration at the people who just may
choose to help you.
In addition to your off putting "Linux (and this newsgroup) sucks"
attitude you are posting with an identity that has zero previous posts to
Usenet. You're pretty much asking us to believe that you simultaneously
discovered Linux and Usenet, and this thread is your very first post to
usenet. That smells rather trollish, don't you think?
> Try to understand my frustration -- the last time I had problems with a
> Windows installation was probably in the 20th ccentury, but I never had
> sucha fundamental problem as a CD ROM drive not being recognized (I take
> that back -- in 1994 I had that problem with a Windows installation).
So try another CD-ROM drive. Don't you have any old ones laying about? Try
a swap to see if the problem is really the CD drive, or if Mandrake has a
problem with the IDE channel on your mainboard. If you don't have any
spare drives, CD-RW and CD-ROM drives are dirt cheap. Buy one.
You could also check to see if the slave / master jumper on the drive is
set to CS (cable select). If so it would be worth a try to put the jumper
on the appropriate slave / master pins.
> I want to like Linux, really I do. This Mandrake installation is the the
> fourth distro I've attempted. Three of the four have had different
> problems. As I mentioned, SuSE worked fine, for the most part.
Then why aren't you using Suse?
Suse and Mandrake / Mandriva are both good distros, and both distros are
newbie friendly. If you want to make a migration to Linux, you will need
to develop decent research skills to use Google and find answers to your
questions.
> Can you see why I am down on Linux?
Linux isn't harder than Microsoft Windows, but if you are coming from
Microsoft there is a learning curve. If you aren't motivated enough to
educate yourself, your odds of success with Linux are substantially
reduced.
--
Tony Sivori
Dan C
> matt_left_coast wrote:
> [CUT]
>
> Welcome to my killfile.
Best thing you ever did. I do believe that makes Matt_the_Mouth the
world-record holder for number of PLONKS. He's a pathetic, ignorant loser
who just likes to argue and see his drivel on the screen.
Dan C
>>> going back to Windows (oh, excuse me, WindDOZE).
>> Good. Go back. You are not capable of using Linux.
> Yes, that's exactly my point. You see, Linux can never be really
> popular on the desktop until it is accessible to *ALL* people, not just
> the intellectually elite, like Dan. C.
You don't have a point. Who (other than the idiot wintrolls) is worried
about how "popular" Linux is? Maybe it's just right the way it is.
Oh, and I'm not necessarily "elite", it just seems that way to you because
you are stupid. I bet you feel the same way about 3rd-graders.
Get the fuck out, and stay out.
Dan C
> I didn't mean to evoke such hostility from some of you.
Sure you did. You got what you were looking for, troll.
> Try to understand my frustration --
No.
> I want to like Linux, really I do.
Bullshit.
> see why I am down on Linux? I'm not trying to upset anyone and I DO
> appreciate the help some people offered.
You're too stupid to use Linux, and don't try to bullshit us by saying
that crap.
> As for Dan C., you need to grow up, little boy.
I assure you that I'm not a little boy, dipshit. Kiss my ass, then fuck
off and die.
ERACC
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
Don't post flamebait like "[Linux] only has a 3% market share of the
desktop" if you want to be taken seriously here. It has a near 100%
share of the desktop in my SOHO PC biz (BTW, the other percent is NOT
WinDUHZ it is one of the OSs in my .sig below, guess). Regardless ...
[...]
> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at
> eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
You don't want to hear it but eMachines suck. :-) You'd do better to
get a white-box builder that knows Linux hardware and installation to
build a box for you. Or build your own box. However, you've already
been snookered into buying that eMachines thing so you'll have to
limp along with it for now. ;-)
> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1.
You should get Mandriva 10.2 at the least, or wait until the release
of Mandriva 2006 is out in a few weeks. FYI, Mandriva is the new name
for the company formerly known as Mandrake. (alt.os.linux.mandriva)
> When I try to install I get an error
> message, "No CDROM Device Found". This message appears on the main
[...]
I have received a similar error when installing from a SCSI CD-ROM
drive. I ended up burning the ISOs at the slowest speed my burner
would take (4x) and installing a brand new ATAPI CD-RW in the box
and messing with boot options (ACPI or something, don't recall as
this was a one-off install on an old PC and I didn't log it) to get
the install done.
In another case I used the boot floppies for a NET install and
installed over the internet. I have done the latter several times now
and actually plan to setup my own local mirror of a NET install
server when I can find time to rework a server here to make space for
that. If you have "broadband", I have 1.5m/256k but a fatter pipe is
better, then the NET install is not too painful.
HTH,
Gene (e-mail: gene \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)
--
Linux era4.eracc.UUCP 2.6.8.1-12mdk i686
14:40:48 up 116 days, 15:21, 8 users, load average: 0.04, 0.09, 0.03
ERA Computer Consulting - http://www.eracc.com/
eCS, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenServer & UnixWare resellers
Jim
> Hello all,
>
> market share of the desktop.
>
> ridiculous error.
>
> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at
> eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
>
> Linux is actually installing from the CD ROM? Of course there's a CD
> ROM!!
>
> console:
>
> * AUTOMATIC: parameter cdrom for method means returning CDROM drive
> * have to insmod ide-cd
> * needs ide-cd
> * succeeded ide-cd
> * looking for ide media
> * have to insmod sr_mod
> * needs scsi_mod
> * needs sr_mod
> * succeeded sr_mod
>
> None of the (very informative) messages indicate any errors. The last
> message I see is:
>
> * unsetting automatic
>
> What the heck could be causing this? I've installed Windows on many,
> approach Linux it seems some weird error occurs. I'm on the verge of
>
> please understand my frustration at wanting to shoot that penguin.
>
>
>
Assuming your posting is legit I'll make a legit reply.
Download another ISO series from a different site. Then burn at a
slower speed.
Ranma
> Sounds like it doesn't like your CDROM drive, I have a machine that always
> does much the same. I put a spare drive on the system in order to install
> from and then take it back off after. Yes that sounds odd to remove it
> later but every distribution from 7.1 to 10.1 has done the same and after
> install the existing drive works fine. As it's only used as a file server
> the 4x CDROM drive is perfectly adequate to leave in. Usually you receive
> errors with reading the packages if there is an issue with the media or how
> it was written.
Actually this just happened to me on an installation just yesterday.
The CD-ROM was bad. I replaced it and everything went fine. It's not
like CD-ROMs are expensive these days.
matt_left_coast
Ahh, another one that can't handle the truth.
matt_left_coast
> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:17:20 +0200, Luca T. wrote:
>
>> matt_left_coast wrote:
>> [CUT]
>>
>> Welcome to my killfile.
>
> Best thing you ever did. I do believe that makes Matt_the_Mouth the
> world-record holder for number of PLONKS. He's a pathetic, ignorant loser
> who just likes to argue and see his drivel on the screen.
>
Ahhh, more insults from Dan, but can he ever actually address a point, or is
he just a baby that can only insult?
matt_left_coast
I mean really, do you always killfile someone that asks legitimate questions
and makes legitmate posts? No wonder you see trolls everywhere.
Bob Bronson
"Dan C" <youmust...@invalid.lan> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.09.11....@invalid.lan...
>
>>>> going back to Windows (oh, excuse me, WindDOZE).
>
>>> Good. Go back. You are not capable of using Linux.
>
>> Yes, that's exactly my point. You see, Linux can never be really
>> popular on the desktop until it is accessible to *ALL* people, not
>> just
>> the intellectually elite, like Dan. C.
>
> You don't have a point. Who (other than the idiot wintrolls) is
> worried
> about how "popular" Linux is? Maybe it's just right the way it is.
>
> Oh, and I'm not necessarily "elite", it just seems that way to you
> because
> you are stupid. I bet you feel the same way about 3rd-graders.
>
> Get the fuck out, and stay out.
Well, I do have to give you credit -- at least you spelled f***
correctly. And you were not afraid to actually type the word.
We all wish you the best of luck in your fighting your emotional
challenges. Be happy, little boy.
Jason
> Hi all,
>
> I didn't mean to evoke such hostility from some of you.
>
Sure you did, you got exactly the reaction that you wanted with your
post and don't now try to act like you didn't. If you have a real
question and real problems just ask the question theres no need to be a
troll and poste flamebait designed to stir up peoples tempers.
Jason
Ron Gibson
> As far as my machine being a eMachine, so what? I thought Linux ran on
> billions of platforms. This is one of the wonderful things always
> touted by the Linux community. The machine is not crap, the components
> are all new. Please don't blame the machine. I WAS able to get SuSE 10
> installed so that tells me that the problem is with the installation
> (i.e., hardware detection, drivers, etc.), not with Linux, per se.
Well you're tone is better but eMachines or for that matter almost all
the low priced prebuilt units are all crap - Cheapest possible
components, cases that are non-standard sizes, hacked BIOS's, mobos with
all kind of onboard non-mainstream hardware, etc.
I'm not being mean but it's the truth. Albeit I learned using a
keypunch machine my first home PC was back around 1992 and was a Compaq
- That was my last mass market machine so I learned the hard way too.
Every machine since then I've built myself and installed multiple
versions of multiple OS's and have always gotten them up and running
even with OS's with *less* hardware support than Linux.
You have to understand you have a machine that is more designed like a
smart microwave oven (and being an engineer I feel safe in that
assertion) that has but one goal - Run MSWare. Clones are far more
flexible *especially* if one does the footwork to check for hardware
issues.
Having said that it might just be a simple issue like a bad CD drive.
But my advice for the future is plan on cannibalizing that box and order
components known to work for the next box you move to.
Eric
> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 00:50:09 -0500, Bob Bronson wrote:
>
>> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
>> market share of the desktop.
>
> Don't post flamebait like "[Linux] only has a 3% market share of the
> desktop" if you want to be taken seriously here. It has a near 100%
> share of the desktop in my SOHO PC biz (BTW, the other percent is NOT
> WinDUHZ it is one of the OSs in my .sig below, guess). Regardless ...
>
> [...]
>> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
>> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
>> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at
>> eMachines. BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
>
> You don't want to hear it but eMachines suck. :-) You'd do better to
> get a white-box builder that knows Linux hardware and installation to
> build a box for you. Or build your own box. However, you've already
> been snookered into buying that eMachines thing so you'll have to
> limp along with it for now. ;-)
>
>> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1.
>
> You should get Mandriva 10.2 at the least, or wait until the release
> of Mandriva 2006 is out in a few weeks. FYI, Mandriva is the new name
> for the company formerly known as Mandrake. (alt.os.linux.mandriva)
Just a FYI:
comcast newsgroups doesnt have this (yet?)
Eric
[...]
Tim
> ERACC wrote:
>
> Just a FYI:
> comcast newsgroups doesnt have this (yet?) Eric
> [...]
I didn't see that group at first ...untill I got the list of new groups.
It's there but I don't know how to refresh the group listing in Knode
though.
matt_left_coast
>
> As for Dan C., you need to grow up, little boy.
That is for sure. Bob, you should know that it really does not matter HOW
you post around here. Even when I tired to help people with real and
ACCURATE information, I have been flamed. It's like gang members that are
defending their turf. Right or wrong does not matter, the only thing that
matters is defending the turf.
What I will say is that Mandrake 10.1 did not work well for me at all. I was
off in search of different distributions. Fortunately, the later versions
have worked much better. From what I can tell, 10.1 did not work that well
for a lot of people.
ray
2) I have found that sometimes I need to specify noscsi and nodma on the
boot lines.
Scott B.
> Bob, you should know that it really does not matter HOW you post
> around here.
It does matter. This is a text medium, so whatever text someone puts
into his article is all there is. What someone says and how he says
it creates an impression.
> Even when I tired to help people with real and ACCURATE
> information,
It looks to me as though you do help people; you seem to know more
about computers (and Linux) than I do, so, if I don't understand what
you have written, then I assume you are correct.
> I have been flamed. It's like gang members that are defending their
> turf. Right or wrong does not matter, the only thing that matters
> is defending the turf.
It seems to me that you have "drawn a line in the sand," and that
seems reasonable to me. The problem is that this is an unmoderated
newsgroup, so opposing individuals can post whatever articles they
desire. A determined individual may be up against another determined
individual (or more than one).
The resultant situation is not quite the same as a chess stalemate.
since one may be able to examine the evidence in order to determine a
winner, if anyone cared to do so. I suspect that before long,
though, the end result is the same: never-ending attacks with no
winner possible.
I suspect that very few people will bother to read the previous
articles if they have not done so already, and of those who do, very
few will read more than one or two "layers" into the thread.
Here are some suggestions:
Start over.
For each (subsequent) instance where you think you were wronged,
point out once or twice how you were wronged, then let it go. The
evidence will be in the Google archives for those few who bother to
look.
matt_left_coast
> matt_left_coast wrote:
>> Bob, you should know that it really does not matter HOW you post
>> around here.
>
> It does matter. This is a text medium, so whatever text someone puts
> into his article is all there is. What someone says and how he says
> it creates an impression.
But that does not matter. I have been royally attacked for HELPING people
and giving out ACCURATE information when others gave out faulty.
>
>> Even when I tired to help people with real and ACCURATE
>> information,
>
> It looks to me as though you do help people; you seem to know more
> about computers (and Linux) than I do, so, if I don't understand what
> you have written, then I assume you are correct.
Thanks.
>
>> I have been flamed. It's like gang members that are defending their
>> turf. Right or wrong does not matter, the only thing that matters
>> is defending the turf.
>
> It seems to me that you have "drawn a line in the sand," and that
> seems reasonable to me. The problem is that this is an unmoderated
> newsgroup, so opposing individuals can post whatever articles they
> desire. A determined individual may be up against another determined
> individual (or more than one).
Making false accusations that can not be proven is NOT determined person vs.
determined person. It is asshole attacking someone being helpful.
>
> The resultant situation is not quite the same as a chess stalemate.
> since one may be able to examine the evidence in order to determine a
> winner, if anyone cared to do so. I suspect that before long,
> though, the end result is the same: never-ending attacks with no
> winner possible.
>
> I suspect that very few people will bother to read the previous
> articles if they have not done so already, and of those who do, very
> few will read more than one or two "layers" into the thread.
>
> Here are some suggestions:
> Start over.
> For each (subsequent) instance where you think you were wronged,
> point out once or twice how you were wronged, then let it go. The
> evidence will be in the Google archives for those few who bother to
> look.
Take a look at Dan C. He is posting his attacks repeatedly. I reserve the
right to challenge his slander. But for the most part, most of the people
that have made up lies about what I have said, told me I was wrong then
later admitted that they did not actually READ what was said, or were
"confused" more than once put me in their killfiles when I asked them
questions about THEIR behavior that they could not answer without admitting
what an ass they are. All and all, confirming my assertion that they are a
bunch of bullies in a gain that run away when challenged.
matt_left_coast
> if I don't understand what
> you have written, then I assume you are correct.
Please ask me to try to explain in simpler terms. I sometimes forget that
not everyone knows the same stuff I do. I have always prided myself in
being able to simplify some of the complex stuff making and trying to make
it easier to understand and learn. As far as the technical stuff, that is
the second most enjoyable thing for me to do. The first most is getting a
big hairy complex problem, a pizza and a soda then sitting down and
figuring out what nobody else has been able to solve. Yes, for those that
know, I am a big time INTP.
Lionel
> Please don't blame the machine. I WAS able to get SuSE 10
> installed so that tells me that the problem is with the installation
> (i.e., hardware detection, drivers, etc.), not with Linux, per se.
If anything this tells you that the problem is with the drivers and
detection of Mandriva, not with linux.
> I want to like Linux, really I do. This Mandrake installation is the
> the fourth distro I've attempted. Three of the four have had different
> problems. As I mentioned, SuSE worked fine, for the most part. Can you
> see why I am down on Linux? I'm not trying to upset anyone and I DO
> appreciate the help some people offered.
So why don't you continue with Suse?
Lionel.
Bob Bronson
news:pan.2005.09.11....@invalid.lan...
>
>
>> As for Dan C., you need to grow up, little boy.
>
> I assure you that I'm not a little boy, dipshit. Kiss my ass, then
> fuck
> off and die.
"I'm not a little boy, dipshit"
"I'm not a little boy, dipshit"
"I'm not a little boy, dipshit"
Of course you're not a little boy, Danny. You're a great big, strong
boy who is very popular and has many friends. Now go to sleep little
boy...you'll feel better in the morning.
r
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new at Linux and I'm quickly starting to see why it only has a 3%
> market share of the desktop.
>
> I was hoping someone could explain what could be causing this ridiculous
> error.
>
> I have an AMD 64 Athlon machine with 1GB RAM. The motherboard is
> MICRO-STAR MS-7145. This machine is not exotic. It's a relatively new
> eMachines T6520, straight out of the box. Please don't laugh at eMachines.
> BTW, this machine works great w/Windows -- zero problems.
>
> I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1. When I try to install I get an error
> message, "No CDROM Device Found". This message appears on the main (i.e.,
> Alt-F1) installation console. Why should I get this message when Linux is
> actually installing from the CD ROM? Of course there's a CD ROM!!
>
> Here is a partial list of the log messages from the log (i.e., Alt-F3)
> console:
>
> * AUTOMATIC: parameter cdrom for method means returning CDROM drive * have
> to insmod ide-cd
> * needs cdrom
> * needs ide-cd
> * succeeded ide-cd
> * looking for ide media
> * have to insmod sr_mod
> * needs scsi_mod
> * needs sr_mod
> * succeeded sr_mod
>
> There are a few more messages but I think the ones above are relevant.
> None of the (very informative) messages indicate any errors. The last
> message I see is:
>
> * unsetting automatic
>
> What the heck could be causing this? I've installed Windows on many, many
> different machines and I never have problems. Every time I try to approach
> Linux it seems some weird error occurs. I'm on the verge of going back to
> Windows (oh, excuse me, WindDOZE).
>
> If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Sorry for my snotty attitude,
Maybe you don't have the marbles to load linux by yourself? Perhaps
your mamma can help you?
Please excuse MY attitude! ;-)
> please
> understand my frustration at wanting to shoot that penguin.
No, not really.
> Thanks
Neil Ellwood
Neither does BtYahoo although I have requested it.
--
Neil
Delete delete to reply by email
Ron Gibson
>> problems. As I mentioned, SuSE worked fine, for the most part. Can
>> you see why I am down on Linux? I'm not trying to upset anyone and
>> I DO appreciate the help some people offered.
> So why don't you continue with Suse?
Suse is very impressive. I'd recommend it to anyone. I prefer a little
more spartan type of distro but they have done a great job.
Aragorn
words to the masses...:
There is an icon that looks like a circular arrow on your /KNode/
toolbar. At least, here there is - I'm using the default icons,
whatever they're called. Click it and it will refresh the list of
headers in the group.
If it is getting a refreshed list of newsgroups that you are inquiring
about, then just right-click on your news server, choose "Subscribe to
newsgroups" and press the "New List" button.
--
With kind regards,
*Aragorn*
(Registered Gnu/Linux user #223157)
Glenn
snip>
> I'm not trying to upset anyone and I DO
> appreciate the help some people offered.
>
On the surface, this is mind boggling.
People are getting upset about an inanimate object comprised of millions of
X's and 0's that they didn't create or even own except for getting it free.
I have been looking into linux but am waiting for more ease of use and will
stay with Windows until then. Some will run down Windows. Why should I
care, other than using it, I have no love for it. It is also an inanimate
object. I certainly could not care less what someone says about it.
They are jealously protecting "their " newsgroup. From what? The word
"Windows"?? That is painful to them? When was the newsgroup deeded over to
them to where they could dictate who enters and has control over what they
say? Surely some of the helpful ones are embarrassed by the actions of a
few.
I have conversed with several here who presented their side with grace but a
lot of the really paranoid ones just rant. The ones getting the most
excited are a text book description of paranoid schizophrenia. Look it up.
Notice that I have named no one to this group and they won't recognize
themselves either. That's part of the disorder.
Aragorn
following words to the masses...:
> "Bob Bronson" <rbrons...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>> I'm not trying to upset anyone and I DO
>> appreciate the help some people offered.
>
> On the surface, this is mind boggling.
>
> People are getting upset about an inanimate object comprised of
> millions of X's and 0's that they didn't create or even own except for
> getting it free.
Actually, they are ones and zeroes. ;-) In addition, there are people
on this newsgroup who actively cooperate in the writing or testing of
code for the next Mandriva distribution, and others are here to help as
a service to the community because they don't have the skills to write
code themselves.
Gnu/Linux is not "something one can download for free". It's an
operating system created by a whole community, to which everyone -
well... every sensible person - has free access.
> I have been looking into linux but am waiting for more ease of use and
> will stay with Windows until then.
More ease of use? With graphical interfaces that would shame Windows or
MacOS, what "more ease of use" could you possibly want? Unless you
want Gnu/Linux to become the new Windows.
Well, sorry to disappoint you, but Gnu/Linux is a UNIX clone. UNIX is a
multi-user client/server architecture, intended for minicomputers (and
above) but ported down to just about every architecture.
It *is* however UNIX and it requires those who use it to deploy some
rational thinking and responsibility. If one were to remove all the
possible ways that someone could be doing something wrong in a UNIX
environment, then one would also be removing the power of UNIX to do
something very efficiently.
As I have said before, Gnu/Linux is not, was not and never will be a
competitor for Windows. It was intended as a free alternative to
commercially intended and proprietary UNIX platforms.
Don't think of Gnu/Linux as an alternative for Windows just because it
happens to run on the same hardware (among many other architectures).
If you want a better Windows, then file in a wishlist with Microsoft or
start writing your own Windows OS, but don't turn to Gnu/Linux. It
would be the wrong choice.
> Some will run down Windows.
And with reason, as Windows has done more for the proliferation of
viruses and malware than the makers of those viruses or malware, and
the whole way in which Microsoft is marketing Windows totally goes
against your personal freedom.
Not that I wish to insult you, but if you don't see things as explained
in the above paragraph, then you're either blind or you like to be
manipulated.
In the latter case, there is no hope for you, and then I wish you all
the best.
> Why should I care, other than using it, I have no love for it. It is
> also an inanimate object. I certainly could not care less what
> someone says about it.
Gnu/Linux is a great operating system. People who care about IT cannot
ignore that fact. If you care about your data, then you should already
know that Gnu/Linux is a lot safer than that junk from Redmond. These
are reasons to care about it.
Next to the technical point of view, there is also the philosophical
point angle of Free and Open Source Software, which should give you
something to think about in regards to our society model.
> They are jealously protecting "their " newsgroup. From what? The
> word "Windows"??
No, from those who come and spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt - FUD
(TM) - before the ignorant newbie, hoping to lure them away from their
right to freedom and to actually decide for themselves what operating
system they want to use on their machines.
> That is painful to them?
No, but we don't like lies about the operating system we happen to love,
and we dislike FUD being spread onto newbies. People who spread FUD
are liars by definition.
> When was the newsgroup deeded over to them to where they could dictate
> who enters and has control over what they say?
It's not a matter of control. It's a matter of *Netiquette.* The
people here are on this group because they want to discuss topics
regarding Gnu/Linux, and Mandriva Linux in particular.
What nobody here needs or wants to hear is just how great Windows is or
how much better - yeah, right! - it is than Gnu/Linux.
> Surely some of the helpful ones are embarrassed by the actions
> of a few.
Sometimes, yes. However, that does not do away with the fact that
common decency dictates that you should respect the community you are
entering. If you come here, then the least you can do is stop putting
of Gnu/Linux because _you_ - not referring to you personally - have
trouble setting it up right.
Every operating system has a learning curve. The curve is no steeper
for Gnu/Linux than it is for Windows. I would say that it's even less
steep. Yet, if you come *from* the Windows world, the curve *will* be
steep because Microsoft has everyone believing that computers are not
what they are but what Microsoft says they are.
Let's face it: Windows is a kitchen sink. It turns your computer into a
household appliance. And so that is what you believe a computer *is.*
Yet, using your computer that way is an awful waste of resources and
CPU power, and it's not what that hardware was conceived for. Don't
confuse marketing initiatives with technology.
Gnu/Linux makes use of your computer hardware in the way that this
hardware was conceived: as a multi-user "computation and information
system", not as a kitchen sink.
I can't argue with you if want a kitchen sink instead of a computer,
because that is what *you* want, and only you know what's best for you.
Yet, you shouldn't expect a real computer operating system to become a
kitchen sink appliance because that is what *you* like having.
The bottom line is that you should definitely stick with using Windows.
You'll be much happier. I don't think Gnu/Linux is every going to be
able to please you.
And you know what? It doesn't have to. Gnu/Linux is not for everyone.
It's only for those who want a genuine operating system on their
computers. But that is not what _you_ want. So why whine about it?
> I have conversed with several here who presented their side with grace
> but a lot of the really paranoid ones just rant.
If you've bothered to look at all the posts of these last few weeks,
then you also know _why_ they are reacting this way.
> The ones getting the most excited are a text book description of
> paranoid schizophrenia. Look it up. Notice that I have named no one
> to this group and they won't recognize themselves either. That's part
> of the disorder.
I don't think that I was unfair in my original reply to (one of your)
first post(s) here, yet you replied by cutting out most of what I had
said from the quotes in someone else's post and marked it as "drivel"
in your "<snip>" comment. It could not have pertained to what that
other person was saying, as he was obviously siding up with you.
I'd say that's a disorder too. One called "malevolence". Look that one
up yourself...
Bungee
> I ask because I know of one task that you *can't* perform with Linux. What
> is that musical gizmo you have that only works with Windows?
Erm...
<searches room, house, car, neighbours house, cat ... ouch!>
Nope, you really got me there. What gizmo are you talking about?
<thinks: can't be very important>
--
Bungee
matt_left_coast
> Just out of curiosity... what amazing task do you use Linux for that can't
> be done at all with Windows?
A) Run without the overhead of a GUI environment.
B) Then, if you are talking about Windows right out of the box (without
buying or downloading additional software): Word processing, spreadsheets,
presentations, databases, application development, full featured web
serving, email server...
C) If you are talking about being able to buy and download additional
software: Save the TIME, MONEY, EFFORT and HEADACHES of installing all the
stuff in B.
YouCanToo
>>
>>>I burned an ISO for Mandrake 10.1.
>>
>>You should get Mandriva 10.2 at the least, or wait until the release
>>of Mandriva 2006 is out in a few weeks. FYI, Mandriva is the new name
>>for the company formerly known as Mandrake. (alt.os.linux.mandriva)
>
> Just a FYI:
> comcast newsgroups doesnt have this (yet?)
> Eric
> [...]
>
>
>
Than ask them to carry the group!
Bit Twister
> comcast newsgroups doesnt have this (yet?)
Shhhh, do not tell my newsreader that
alt.os.linux.mandriva: 1-725
is not on the comcast/giganews servers.
John Kloosterman
Hmmm... It worked fine for me with noapic ide=nodma
Just hit F1 at boot time and type in: "linux noapic ide=nodma" (without
the quotes of course)...
Most times the installation works fine after that (albeit a bit slow
sometimes)....
Ron Gibson
>>Let's face it: Windows is a kitchen sink. It turns your computer into a
>>household appliance. And so that is what you believe a computer *is.*
>>Yet, using your computer that way is an awful waste of resources and
>>CPU power, and it's not what that hardware was conceived for. Don't
>>confuse marketing initiatives with technology.
> approved kitchen sink?
Oh lets see here. Let me count them...
Run without constant crashes and having to buy $200 more in utilities to
keep away the virus and repair the abomination known as a registry for
starters.
If you don't get it on those two counts no need to cite any more. If all
you've ever used was a desktop bought for CompUSA for way more than it
was worth like everything else MS related you simply don't know any other
way.
As far as people "hating" windoze that's simple. People don't hate
windoze around here. They hate to use it because it quite frankly sucks.
Dan C
>> I'm not trying to upset anyone and I DO
>> appreciate the help some people offered.
> On the surface, this is mind boggling.
Your mind is easily boggled, apparently.
> People are getting upset about an inanimate object comprised of millions of
> X's and 0's that they didn't create or even own except for getting it free.
Perhaps some of us *DID* create some of it.
> I have been looking into linux but am waiting for more ease of use and will
> stay with Windows until then.
Hopefully it won't get any easier to use then. We don't need people with
your intelligence level using Linux.
> Some will run down Windows. Why should I
> care, other than using it, I have no love for it. It is also an inanimate
> object. I certainly could not care less what someone says about it.
Then why are you making this ridiculous post. If you don't care about
what someone says about Windoze, what's your point?
> They are jealously protecting "their " newsgroup. From what?
From dipshits like you, and your clone, "CyberDroog". Have either of you
posted to Usenet in the past using the name "Leythos", by any chance?
Some of us do what we can to keep the Wintrolls out of here.
Go away, moron.
--
All posts that originate from Google Groups are ignored.
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
Aragorn
following words to the masses...:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:11:34 GMT, Aragorn <str...@telenet.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Let's face it: Windows is a kitchen sink. It turns your computer
>> into a household appliance. And so that is what you believe a
>> computer *is.*
>>
>> Yet, using your computer that way is an awful waste of resources and
>> CPU power, and it's not what that hardware was conceived for. Don't
>> confuse marketing initiatives with technology.
>
> Just out of curiosity... what amazing task do you use Linux for that
> can't be done at all with Windows? Or is your personal system just a
> GNU approved kitchen sink?
This computer runs a (local) webserver, it serves as a file- &
printserver, and it is my workstation for all kinds of stuff. It does
all of that with an ultimate stability. It also allows me to log in
remotely over /ssh/ or /webmin./
It's not that I need Gnu/Linux to do something that I couldn't do in
another operating system. It's just that I like UNIX. I also like the
philosophy behind FOSS because it's noble, because it gives _me_
freedom and because it gives _other_ _people_ that same freedom as
well. Does that answer your question as to why I am using it?
> I ask because I know of one task that you *can't* perform with Linux.
> What is that musical gizmo you have that only works with Windows?
I don't know its software name, but I do know what you're talking about.
It works with that GuitarPort gizmo from Line 6, right?
> Sure, you could write the drivers. But you haven't so far. But that
> is the point. Whatever your need, you can find a way to do it
> regardless of the OS.
True, but so far I don't use my computer for that kind of stuff, and it
has nothing to do with what I was telling Glenn. I was just pointing
out that Gnu/Linux has a far different origin than Windows, and that it
is wrong to expect Gnu/Linux to behave _like_ Windows.
One of the reasons why security is so strong in UNIX environments is
that it's not as lax as Windows. Windows allows one to do things
without thinking, and that includes thinking of the consequences.
UNIX systems _require_ that the operator thinks - and that applies even
more to the system's administrator. It may be a little less (lazy)
userfriendly, but we all know the result.
Aragorn
following words to the masses...:
> The gizmo that the person I *replied* to has, dumb ass. Try reading
> the entire post.
Ehm, I don't have that gizmo, but I do know what you're talking about.
A friend of mine has it though.
I keep my musical creativity and my computer separate. Besides, with a
BOSS GT-6, several BOSS stomp boxes, a Zoom 8080, a genuine 100 Watt
full tube Marshall head and a 4x12 1960 Lead cabinet, why on Earth
would I want to connect my guitars to my computer and have it simulate
an amplifier?
Luca T.
> Just out of curiosity... what amazing task do you use Linux for that can't
> be done at all with Windows?
Well, let me give you just a fast example. The other day i bought a
Trust gamepad, unfortunately Trust doesn't develop Linux drivers for it
and it would not work "out of the box".
I then begun reading the source code of the joypad module inside the
Kernel Source tree and found there the name of the author (this took
maybe 5 minutes).
At this point i wrote to him an email and he explained what i had to
look for and where to add the changes i needed.
Now... i'm not a C expert at all and i haven't a clue about how to write
a Linux driver, but the source code was pretty clear and by simply
adding a couple (really a couple!) of lines inside the correct module
and recompiling it the Joypad now works wonderfully.
This took maybe 15 minutes (not including the compile time).
At this point i sent the changes to the author and he added my changes
inside the Kernel tree as you can see here:
http://www.kernel.org/hg/linux-2.6/?cmd=changelog;rev=5441
(i'm the second one, the one titled "Input: HID - add a quirk for
Aashima Trust (06d6:0025) gamepad").
From now on my gamepad will be supported "out of the box" (ie: without
requiring any external driver) in the future versions of the Kernel and
*i* helped developing this.
Now tell me, how would you do it in Microsoft Windows?
Bye,
Luca
P.S.: Some years ago, when i was still using Windows, i switched from
Win98 to Win2k. It happens that just 2 weeks before i bought a Logitech
Webcam that worked perfectly with Win98 but had no drivers for Win2k. As
i said the webcam was pretty much brand new so i contacted Logitech and
the told me that the drivers for my webcam would NEVER be developed for
Win2k since they had better webcams to sell. I waited 1 year and still
no drivers for my almost unused Webcam, then i had to trash it. If i had
Linux at that time i could have developed my own drivers or find another
user that did it for me... unfortunately i was using Windows. And yes...
that particular webcam does WORK with Linux... but NOT on Win2k, WinXP, etc.
TJ
> matt_left_coast wrote:
> [CUT]
>
> Welcome to my killfile.
>
> Bye,
> Luca
Hey, thanks! Matt has the honor(?) of being the first, and so far only,
usenet poster that I found to be enough of a pest to put into a
killfile. I only did that recently, and wasn't sure I did it correctly.
I now have it confirmed: HE'S GONE!
TJ
TJ
Wintroll. He hates it when Windows users try to play in his sandbox. He
prefers to keep it ALL to himself.
TJ
TJ
> On Sunday 11 September 2005 07:50, Bob Bronson stood up and spoke the
> following words to the masses...:
>
>
>>Please don't laugh at eMachines. BTW, this machine works great
>>w/Windows -- zero problems.
>
>
> that. However, that something works with Windows is somewhat of an
> ambiguous statement. It could mean that you were supplied with
> Windows-specific drivers for special hardware.
>
> On the other hand, things always *seem* to work well with Windows - i.e.
> without any "complaints" from Windows - simply because Windows doesn't
> bother to make an inventory of the _working_ hardware in your system.
> It simply catalogs the hardware, whether it works or not.
>
> That is why it sometimes finds itself in quite of a panic when it tries
> to access broken hardware, with as crash as the result.
>
>
I can believe him. When I bought my last machine two years ago I had no
problems installing Windows 98, except that it took an entire afternoon
to install the various apps. Win98 apparently worked fine, but when I
tried to install Mandrake 10.0 I ran into a big problem related to disk
repartitioning, a problem bad enough that the installer trashed my
Windows partition. After several frustrating days/weeks of trying to
ferret out the source of the problem on my own, I found a workaround
that allowed me to use 10.0, and everything apparently worked fine.
I suspected a bug in the 10.0 installer. I assumed others would have
found it and reported it. By the time I found the workaround, 10.1 was
well into development. When I asked here if my "bug" had been fixed in
10.1 before I arranged to get the install cds, I was trashed for
defending my ignorance and faulty conclusions, and sent to bed without
my supper. That attitude, and the "bug", led me to try Fedora Core 3
instead of Mandrake that time around.
FC3 refused to install, rather than trash my Windows partition, a
feature I appreciated. Eventually I learned the source of my problem was
that the hd manufacturer's setup software had incorrectly written the
partition information when I set up the original FAT32 drive. I bought a
copy of Partition Magic, and it found and corrected the problem right
away. Neither Mandrake nor FC3 had told me what the problem was.
Mandrake didn't even detect a problem, and FC3 just gave me a cryptic
error message.
By the time Mandriva LE2005 came out I had decided FC3 wasn't for me,
and I came back home. LE2005 installed with no problems and, once I
customized things to my liking, has worked perfectly ever since.
>
>
>>If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Sorry for my snotty attitude,
>>please understand my frustration at wanting to shoot that penguin.
>
>
> If your problem is related to SATA, then I would strongly suggest
> getting LE2005 instead of 10.1. Also check your hardware for defects,
> and don't rely on Windows to tell you that there aren't any.
>
My point is (You knew there had to be a point, right?), don't rely on
Mandrake/Mandriva to tell you there aren't any problems with your
hardware, either.
Oh, and Mr. Bronson, I can understand your frustration. I felt it myself
when I was having problems. But don't express it here. It won't get you
any help. Trust me, I have experience in this.
TJ
Aragorn
words to the masses...:
<snip>
> I suspected a bug in the 10.0 installer. I assumed others would have
> found it and reported it. By the time I found the workaround, 10.1 was
> well into development. When I asked here if my "bug" had been fixed in
> 10.1 before I arranged to get the install cds, I was trashed for
> defending my ignorance and faulty conclusions, and sent to bed without
> my supper. That attitude, and the "bug", led me to try Fedora Core 3
> instead of Mandrake that time around.
Some have better bedside manners than others, and some have a shorter
fuse than others... Trolls are everywhere - I've just finished a long
reply to a FUD cross-post from whom I believe to be /flatfish/ on
/comp.os.linux.misc/ - and so it's quite understandable that some flare
up a little easier than others.
I'm not saying I condone it. I'm saying I understand it. ;-)
> FC3 refused to install, rather than trash my Windows partition, a
> feature I appreciated. Eventually I learned the source of my problem
> was that the hd manufacturer's setup software had incorrectly written
> the partition information when I set up the original FAT32 drive. I
> bought a copy of Partition Magic, and it found and corrected the
> problem right away. Neither Mandrake nor FC3 had told me what the
> problem was. Mandrake didn't even detect a problem, and FC3 just gave
> me a cryptic error message.
The thing is that Windows and DOS pose stricter requirements to a
partition table than Gnu/Linux does. This is also just about the only
thing in which Gnu/Linux is less strict, but then again, Gnu/Linux can
handle partition schemes that DOS or Windows can't handle.
However, the problem you mention above seems more like a BIOS or hard
disk controller problem to me than a partition table problem.
> By the time Mandriva LE2005 came out I had decided FC3 wasn't for me,
> and I came back home. LE2005 installed with no problems and, once I
> customized things to my liking, has worked perfectly ever since.
Always nice to hear. ;-)
> My point is (You knew there had to be a point, right?), don't rely on
> Mandrake/Mandriva to tell you there aren't any problems with your
> hardware, either.
Hardware can be unpredictable at times. However, having problems with
Gnu/Linux in regards to hardware may be a very good indication of that
hardware being on its way South. ;-)
> Oh, and Mr. Bronson, I can understand your frustration. I felt it
> myself when I was having problems. But don't express it here. It won't
> get you any help. Trust me, I have experience in this.
Frustration is one thing. Dissing on Gnu/Linux and spouting Windows
propaganda - which is false propaganda, by the way - is not quite
desirable for this or other newsgroups regarding Gnu/Linux.
Some people just need to learn how to think before they speak. In the
process, they will then also learn how to act before they speak, and
that may already be a major part of the solution to their IT problem.
;-)
matt_left_coast
> matt_left_coast wrote:
>> Scott B. wrote:
>>
<snip>
>
>> Yes, for those that know, I am a big time INTP.
>
> I had never heard of that before, but now I have read a little about
> it. I still think that if you were able to limit yourself to
> twice(?) pointing out how you were correct, there would be less
> stress for you and more enjoyable reading for others.
I got sick of idiots that didn't even read my replies telling me I was wrong
so I went after them. I no longer have them trying to prove there 1 inch
dick is bigger than anyone else's. I hope I stay in their killfiles.
matt_left_coast
> Luca T. wrote:
>> matt_left_coast wrote:
>> [CUT]
>>
>> Welcome to my killfile.
>>
>> Bye,
>> Luca
> Hey, thanks! Matt has the honor(?) of being the first, and so far only,
> usenet poster that I found to be enough of a pest to put into a
> killfile.
Yahoo! I can't think of anywere I would RATHER be!
> I only did that recently, and wasn't sure I did it correctly.
> I now have it confirmed: HE'S GONE!
And I don't have you replying to me with your idiotic nonsense.
>
> TJ
Ron Gibson
> Well, let me give you just a fast example. The other day i bought a
> Trust gamepad, unfortunately Trust doesn't develop Linux drivers for it
> and it would not work "out of the box".
> I then begun reading the source code of the joypad module inside the
> Kernel Source tree and found there the name of the author (this took
> maybe 5 minutes).
> At this point i wrote to him an email and he explained what i had to
> look for and where to add the changes i needed.
> Now... i'm not a C expert at all and i haven't a clue about how to write
> a Linux driver, but the source code was pretty clear and by simply
> adding a couple (really a couple!) of lines inside the correct module
> and recompiling it the Joypad now works wonderfully.
> This took maybe 15 minutes (not including the compile time).
> At this point i sent the changes to the author and he added my changes
> inside the Kernel tree as you can see here:
> http://www.kernel.org/hg/linux-2.6/?cmd=changelog;rev=5441
> (i'm the second one, the one titled "Input: HID - add a quirk for
> Aashima Trust (06d6:0025) gamepad").
Ouch. That had to hurt :-)
Football season just started and I think you just delivered the
proverbial blind side sack.
And good job on that bit of effort, Luca
TJ
> On Tuesday 13 September 2005 05:44, TJ stood up and spoke the following
> words to the masses...:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>FC3 refused to install, rather than trash my Windows partition, a
>>feature I appreciated. Eventually I learned the source of my problem
>>was that the hd manufacturer's setup software had incorrectly written
>>the partition information when I set up the original FAT32 drive. I
>>bought a copy of Partition Magic, and it found and corrected the
>>problem right away. Neither Mandrake nor FC3 had told me what the
>>problem was. Mandrake didn't even detect a problem, and FC3 just gave
>>me a cryptic error message.
>
>
> The thing is that Windows and DOS pose stricter requirements to a
> partition table than Gnu/Linux does. This is also just about the only
> thing in which Gnu/Linux is less strict, but then again, Gnu/Linux can
> handle partition schemes that DOS or Windows can't handle.
>
> However, the problem you mention above seems more like a BIOS or hard
> disk controller problem to me than a partition table problem.
>
>
>>By the time Mandriva LE2005 came out I had decided FC3 wasn't for me,
>>and I came back home. LE2005 installed with no problems and, once I
>>customized things to my liking, has worked perfectly ever since.
>
>
> Always nice to hear. ;-)
>
>
same except that I added RAM and another HD. The software with the new
HD, BTW, partitioned it correctly. On the original drive, someone
suggested the manufacturer's software failed to detect a BIOS capable of
dealing with large partitions, and used a workaround method to do the
job. I wouldn't know. I'm not that skilled at this stuff, though I know
more now after spending months of my spare time on the problem than I
did before. ( I can just see some of the denizens of this group smiling
smugly and thinking, "See? He's better for the experience." That may be,
but I prefer to choose the direction of my betterment myself.)
But I've gone on overlong about this. It's old news, and no one wants to
rehash old news, even me.
TJ
Ron Gibson
> FC3 refused to install, rather than trash my Windows partition, a
> feature I appreciated. Eventually I learned the source of my problem was
> that the hd manufacturer's setup software had incorrectly written the
> partition information when I set up the original FAT32 drive. I bought a
> copy of Partition Magic, and it found and corrected the problem right
> away. Neither Mandrake nor FC3 had told me what the problem was.
> Mandrake didn't even detect a problem, and FC3 just gave me a cryptic
> error message.
You run inro some weird stuff at times. I was working on an old PII
Comaq here a while back. It was another victim of Win-Viruses.
My main machine is a workhorse and I just leave on side of the case off
so I can quickly hook up a cable and power lead to a HD. I reformatted
the 8GB drive and reinstalled W98SE from images burned to CD - No
problem. Stuck it in the machine and no boot. Turns out Compaq had
hacked the BIOS so it read the drive not as 8GB but as about 7.3. They
hide and use that remaining section for their special "recovery"
function - IOW a hidden image.
Ron Gibson
> So it's just another kitchen sink. That is my point. Most home users
> are doing relatively simple tasks with either OS.
Yep. And I reinstall two friends winblows 3-4 times a year due to
viruses doing the *simplest* tasks.
And typical of the brainwashed masses when asked...
So what do you use this thing for other than web browsing?
Nothing.
You want to be rid of this $100 charge every three months? I'll put
Linux on it. Mozilla is mozilla after all.
Duh...no put windows on it again.
God bless MS. Their crapware keeps me in spare change :-)
Jon Solberg
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:15:54 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
>
>
>>So it's just another kitchen sink. That is my point. Most home users
>>are doing relatively simple tasks with either OS.
>
>
> Yep. And I reinstall two friends winblows 3-4 times a year due to
> viruses doing the *simplest* tasks.
Change friends. Change their OS (like I did). Refuse to fix the boxes.
People who need to reinstall Windows (or any OS for that matter) every
third month shouldn't be allowed to use computers at all. Which should
apply for 60-70 per cent of its user base of MS Windows. Sadly how it
may seem.
My dual boot work station with windows has a five year old installation
of XP on it; no problem there. But again, I use Firefox and Thunderbird
for reading email and it's bogged down behind a Linux firewall/router.
Even so, I far prefer to use Linux for my desktop needs.
--
Jon Solberg (remove "nospam" from email address).
Luca T.
<snip>
You are talking of a completely different thing... let me summarize it
for you:
1) I'm talking about changing 3 lines inside a preexisting driver, you
are talking about creating a driver from scratch (thousands of lines of
complex code);
2) I'm talking about a task that requires 15 minutes of time and no
skills in driver development (just basic, real basic, C knowledge), you
are talking of hours or maybe days of work (especially if you don't know
how the hardware communicates with the computer) and excellent skills in
driver development;
3) I'm talking about contacting the author of a kernel module to solve a
problem and have his answers the day after in my mail-box, you simply
cannot do this since M$ would simply not answer or tell you to contact
the hardware company. In few words you cannot contact directly the guys
who developed your software;
4) I'm talking about having *my own changes* inside every future version
of Linux, you simply cannot have this in Windows unless you work inside M$;
5) I'm talking about a change that will allow me to use my gamepad in
every future version and distro of Linux right "out of the box", you are
talking about having to reinstall the driver everytime you reinstall the
OS, and not only this... future versions of Windows will have different
interfaces for the drivers so at every new version of Windows you will
have to fix your driver and recompile it all from scratch;
6) I'm talking about a hardware that i can use until it breaks because
it will be supported by Linux until the end of time, you are talking
about a hardware that will work until who made it decides that it is ok
for you to use it since they simply have to stop its driver development
to cut you out from any new version of Windows.
Now... do you *see* the difference between Linux and Windows?
Let me summarize it up for you a little bit more:
1) I can change Linux how i want, down to the Kernel, you cannot do this
in Windows
2) I can contact the authors of my software and have things changed to
make it work better for my needs (or at least have the instructions to
do it myself), you cannot do this in Windows since no one will bother to
fix a bug or add a feature that only you need
3) I can include my own changes to the Kernel that will be useful to
everyone else, you cannot do this in Windows
4) My gamepad will work out of the box from now on on every new Linux
version and distro without having to install or change anything, you
cannot do this in Windows
5) I can use my hardware in future versions of Linux or at least give a
box of beers to an univ student to enable it for me (if i am not able to
do it), in Windows only the hardware vendor makes the driver and so can
stop you from using your own hardware when it feels like to do it and
say "oh too bad... well... you can buy this new hardware if you really want"
6) I am talking about really *owning* what i paid for. It is *my*
software, it is *my* hardware... for how much you can try in Windows you
will only have a *licence* that tells you things like "you cannot resell
this software, you cannot borrow this software, you cannot decompile
this software to know how it works, you cannot [insert here]", in few
words you *NEVER own* the software you paid for
Is it clearer now?
Bye,
Luca
Ron Gibson
>> Yep. And I reinstall two friends winblows 3-4 times a year due to
>> viruses doing the *simplest* tasks.
> Change friends. Change their OS (like I did). Refuse to fix the boxes.
> People who need to reinstall Windows (or any OS for that matter) every
> third month shouldn't be allowed to use computers at all. Which should
> apply for 60-70 per cent of its user base of MS Windows. Sadly how it
> may seem.
> My dual boot work station with windows has a five year old installation
> of XP on it; no problem there. But again, I use Firefox and Thunderbird
> for reading email and it's bogged down behind a Linux firewall/router.
Well this one is my best friend of 30+ years. Smart guy but he missed
out on the computer revolution. He has a hard time but likes to browse,
etc and that's about all he does.
I've tried but I get the blank stare when I try to explain it. He's no
dummy by any means but just doesn't get this kind of stuff.
In any event he's getting a new(er) machine with plenty of HD space.
This time I intend to install Linux on it too. I'm sure that if I slowly
expose him to it he'll realize there is no difference in surfing the web
with windoze or Linux except you don't have to reinstall every 3 months.
A lot of people are in this category and in some cases it's sad. In some
cases it's a matter of keeping your health. A pharmicist recently told
me that @60% of people with chronic illnesses were abler to assist or in
some cases diagnose their illness with the help of the web.
I've talked to the proverbial Grandma and Grandpa about these issues.
These people being on small retirement incomes get dupped and then find
themselves in a situation where they have to continually throw money at
a machine which in their case is not a luxary but a necessity.
So many times a person has overheard me talking and come over (say in a
diner) to ask if I could fix their machine. Sure my windoze keeps
running with the help of Norton Utilities, Spybot, FProt, and about 35
years exposure to computers. But you can expect Mom and Pop to achieve
that anytime soon.
> Even so, I far prefer to use Linux for my desktop needs.
Most definitely. I often go for over a week without booting windoze. I
really have no need for it except the occasional game perhaps.
Aragorn
following words to the masses...:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:00:25 GMT, Aragorn <str...@telenet.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> I keep my musical creativity and my computer separate. Besides, with
>> a BOSS GT-6, several BOSS stomp boxes, a Zoom 8080, a genuine 100
>> Watt full tube Marshall head and a 4x12 1960 Lead cabinet, why on
>> Earth would I want to connect my guitars to my computer and have it
>> simulate an amplifier?
>
> That's the only thing you can imagine a computer doing as far as music
> is concerned? What about composing or having the computer be the rest
> of a band?
My composing style has always relied on the freedom of the other
musicians to come up with their own stuff in terms of arranging. I
also keep my own stuff quite loose, so that I can improvise. I usually
stick to a loosely written pattern of chords on a sheet of paper.
As for having the computer be the rest of the band, that is something I
don't really favor. It's tempting to go there, but it doesn't give you
the same satisfaction as playing with real live people.
At least, my two cents worth... ;-)
Luca T.
> Nothing that I didn't know before. And nothing you wrote has anything to
> do with the question I asked.
LOL. As you wish.
Bye,
Luca
Ron Gibson
> You don't have to fix it more than once. Just create an image of a
> good system and give them the disc.
That's exactly what I've done and it's not a trivial process for a
non-techie.
OTOH I play with viruses under Linux. Got a few saved. Need some?
The point is *any* OS and computers in general are high maintenance
items. Some are better than others but the crap that MS puts out is a
disgrace. And I've been saying that since the days of OS/2 2.1, when
Linux though installed was just a toddler finding it's legs.
First time I installed Linux (with mighty kernel .9) I said to myself
one day this is gonna be a revolution for home systems.
People who think they just have to turn on the machine and it will
always work are kidding themselves. Those that insist that is true are
just plain fools.
Ron Gibson
> As for having the computer be the rest of the band, that is something I
> don't really favor. It's tempting to go there, but it doesn't give you
> the same satisfaction as playing with real live people.
everyone else and band experience.
While there is room for technology in it all still a band "performs" and
that energy they produce "communicates" with the audience.
Sometimes the best effects are totally non-musical. A prefect example is
the late great Hendrix.
I saw Led Zeppelin three ties in their prime. Nothing a machine or a
computer can do can match that kind of energy.
But it has a place, like in Rap or the kind of stuff Phil Collins did.
But I would never put the machine on anywhere near the same footing as
the performer.
Ron Gibson
> They aren't brainwashed, they are probably porn freaks. Anyone who
> gets a virus every three months has got to be surfing porn or wares
> sites.
I'll let you tell my Vietnam veteran best friend that.
>>God bless MS. Their crapware keeps me in spare change :-)
> I would create a Ghost image of a solid installation, and create a boot CD
> with the restore options. But then I'm not into ripping off my
> friends.
LOL! Check out Computer Geeks prices. I do it as a favor and for the
amount of work I do it's dirt cheap and he ends up with a setup far
superior to what he'd get anywhere else. I dumped one genius that was a
typical MS asshole because he was a jerk. He cried for weeks wanting
me to "work my magic" again to the point I was ready to complain to the
phone company. Needless to say I told him he was getting a good deal, to
learn how to do this himself and what I charge was really more designed
as an incentive to get off his lazy ass and learn something.
But being the typical MS challenged weenie he didn't get it. Now he's
paying the price, the *real* price.
The rip offs start in Redmond, not at my house.
If you have problems with all of this why in the hell are your posting
this hogwash, wasting our time and yours with stuff that many many of us
have been there, done that and decided to take the better path. All
this stuff about imaging and redundant backups - Nothing new or
even all that "insightful".
Do you have anything to offer other than how great MS crapware is?
If not take it to advocacy, as otherwise you are looking like the
typical wintroll.
PS: Never once had to reinstall Linux in 12 years because it went belly
up unlike windoze so often does.
If you don't get that basic concept you are beyond help.
Curt
> But it has a place, like in Rap or the kind of stuff Phil Collins did.
> But I would never put the machine on anywhere near the same footing as
> the performer.
Having said that, I've never wanted to strangle a machine like I've
wanted to strangle Celine Dion.
Anyway, what are you? Some kind of humanist? ;-)
Dan C
>> Nothing that I didn't know before. And nothing you wrote has anything to
>> do with the question I asked.
> LOL. As you wish.
Just killfile the moron, and maybe he'll get bored and go away. I've not
seen a more obvious wintroll around here since the days of "Leythos".
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
Dan C
> Do you have anything to offer other than how great MS crapware is?
> If not take it to advocacy, as otherwise you are looking like the
> typical wintroll.
Ron, quit wasting your time, and just killfile this moron. He looks like
a typical wintroll because that's what he is. A very obvious one.
matt_left_coast
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:23:22 +0000, Ron Gibson wrote:
>
>> Do you have anything to offer other than how great MS crapware is?
>> If not take it to advocacy, as otherwise you are looking like the
>> typical wintroll.
>
> Ron, quit wasting your time, and just killfile this moron. He looks like
> a typical wintroll because that's what he is. A very obvious one.
>
Ahhh, the killfile queen strikes again! Dan, can you do ANYTHING but bitch
at people and be the queen of killfile advise?