Slang and idioms
Maxim S. Shatskih
Are words "sux", "rulez" and "muzdie" really international? Since
they are from English, I expect them to be widely used in
English-speaking countries. Is it so?
What is the origin of "muzdie"? Is it from "Jesus Christ -
Superstar"?
Another sample which has some relation to this NG :-)
In common Russian slang (not computer-related), there is an
idiom - "...then flag to his hands". It is used when one stubbornly
tries to do something stupid (for instance, unachievable for sure).
Then others respond with - "He tries to do this? Then flag to his
hands".
I have doubts about origin of this. Maybe some stupid
"demonstrations" with red flags on May 1, for where people were forced
to go by local communist party bosses as a kind of "social activity".
Computer-geeks rephrased it as - "...then flags register to his
hands".
:-)
Also a question. What is "kitchen sink" in relation to computers?
Max
ccr...@crayne.org
at 12:37 AM, "Maxim S. Shatskih" <ma...@storagecraft.com> said:
: Are words "sux", "rulez" and "muzdie" really international?
I certainly hope not :-)
:Since
:they are from English, I expect them to be widely used in
:English-speaking countries. Is it so?
In my mind, such deliberate misspelling of common english words is at best
a fad, and at worst an underworld cant, which is designed to show that one
is a member of the cognoscenti. Personally, I consider the people who use
such terms to be "script kiddies", i.e. those who can't actually write
programs, but who can create mischief by modifying other peoples work.
-- Chuck Crayne
-----------------------------------------------------------
ccr...@crayne.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
Maxim S. Shatskih
who use
> such terms to be "script kiddies", i.e. those who can't actually
write
> programs, but who can create mischief by modifying other peoples
work.
Not this hard.
A common slang of FIDO people, and also of 19-years-old
computer-related students.
Also note - I was speaking about _Russian_ computer geeks using these
words. So, these words (in that spelling) seem to become international
(thanks to FIDO).
Max
Anthony Ventimiglia
> Maybe it is a good time to share some computer-related slang?
> Are words "sux", "rulez" and "muzdie" really international? Since
> they are from English, I expect them to be widely used in
> English-speaking countries. Is it so?
I don't consider any of those English, nor computer-related, and
Hopefully never international.
>
> Also a question. What is "kitchen sink" in relation to computers?
It's from the old term "everything but the kitchen sink" i.e. some form of
(arguably) bloatware that can do just about everything. Something Like
emacs or Mozilla is a "kitchen sink" application.
If you want a nice place to read hacker slang, check out the jargon
file: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/
>
> Max
>
>
>
w m r
> Maybe it is a good time to share some computer-related slang?
> Are words "sux", "rulez" and "muzdie" really international? Since
> they are from English, I expect them to be widely used in
> English-speaking countries. Is it so?
>
> What is the origin of "muzdie"? Is it from "Jesus Christ -
> Superstar"?
I don't really hear that one much. You're thinking of 'must die must
die this Jesus must die'? I doubt any popularity came from Jesus
Christ Superstar, that was quite a while ago, way before MTV
generation, where the 'sux' and 'rulez' stuff spelled like that comes
from. It's probably more along the lines of some violent game like
Quake, though I can't think of anything specific. Oh, wait, flash of
insight -- Ebonics!!
> Another sample which has some relation to this NG :-)
> In common Russian slang (not computer-related), there is an
> idiom - "...then flag to his hands". It is used when one stubbornly
> tries to do something stupid (for instance, unachievable for sure).
> Then others respond with - "He tries to do this? Then flag to his
> hands".
I can't get the emphasis of 'then flag to his hands'. I take it that
is a word-for-word translation. Are you hitting/hurting his hands
with the flag because he is doing something stupid? Or is it the fact
that he is voluntarily carrying the flag, and it is a stupid futile
thing, thinking he is really going to benefit when all he's doing is
swallowing the party line, with, as we say in America, a shit-eating
grin?
Mike
Maxim S. Shatskih
> generation, where the 'sux' and 'rulez' stuff spelled like that
comes
So, 'sux' and 'rulez' is from MTV and not from computer geeks?
> from. It's probably more along the lines of some violent game like
> Quake
Long predates Quake, I've heard them in 94. The source was Russian
FIDO (still widely used in Russian non-main cities due to being free
of charge), and from where they came to FIDO it's what we discussing.
> insight -- Ebonics!!
Is Ebonics a game?
> I can't get the emphasis of 'then flag to his hands'. I take it
that
> is a word-for-word translation. Are you hitting/hurting his hands
> with the flag because he is doing something stupid?
The attitude is - "it is extemely stupid to go with a flag in hands".
Have you read Servantes's story on knight Don Kichote? The attitude
there is the same.
So, going with a flag in hands is as pathetic (well - in Russian the
words "pathetic" and "pafos" has the _exact opposite_ meaning - the
magnificient tone of speaking suitable for something sacred, IIRC
there was even a "Pathetic Symphony" by some classic composer) as Don
Kichote.
> that he is voluntarily carrying the flag, and it is a stupid futile
> thing, thinking he is really going to benefit when all he's doing is
> swallowing the party line
Exactly so.
A good old Soviet joke came to mind. About pornography. Sorry, no
ethnical offence, it is a joke.
"What is British sex?" (traditional).
"What is French sex?" (oral).
"What is Georgian sex?" (homosexual rape).
"What is American sex?" (a movie operator shoots all these scenes to a
camera).
"And what is Russian sex?" (comsomol members being fscked on a
comsomol meeting for viewing that movie).
When Gorbachev came to power, he (together with American TV companies)
made several "TV-brigdes". A joint TV program from both countries,
where people (and often children of the same age) discussed and
compared both lifestyles. I suspect the Russian people there were
first instructed by party's ideologists :-), but nevertheless.
On one of these programs around 1986 the American TV guy asked the
12years Russian girl on sex. She responded with - "we have no sex in
the USSR!".
:-))))
Comsomol meetings were an interesting style, especially during
Stalin's. When a senior schoolboy/girl commited some not-so-moral
(from authorities point of view) deed, a meeting was assigned, led by
the teachers.
He/she was forced to stand, and all of his/her classmates (sitting)
were suggested to say something like "this is terrible? how can you
commit this? this is really atrocious! I cannot even imagine doing
this!". It was started by the teacher with "dear children! One of your
have committed the Atrocious Evil Deed. Don't you know! This one did
that! and then that! I just even cannot imagine doing such things!".
Then - often speeches about the Young Heroes Of Old Who Will Never Do
Such and so.
The scene was clearly like El Cheapo theatre of hypocrisy. For
instance, once my classmate and me were punished this way for buying
beer in 15years old. The fun note was that the 50years old female
teacher was in the same beer shop with us, in the same queue, and
bought a huge amount of beer. During the meeting, she started with...
apologizing over pupils on herself being there! Surely, we turned that
case to a theatre of fun.
Nevertheless, during Stalin's, it was no fun. It was a prolog to
serious repressions.
If Mike reads this - I would be interested in his opinion on this. Are
such "meetings" moral or not?
Max
w m r
> So, 'sux' and 'rulez' is from MTV and not from computer geeks?
Well, us East-Coasters see it as being California Beach style talk.
MTV same thing.
> Long predates Quake, I've heard them in 94. The source was Russian
> FIDO (still widely used in Russian non-main cities due to being free
> of charge), and from where they came to FIDO it's what we discussing.
I don't really know what FIDO is (I've heard of it but that's all).
> Is Ebonics a game?
Not as such, but I'd get badly flamed if I explain it. Better ask
someone at work.
> A good old Soviet joke came to mind. About pornography. Sorry, no
> ethnical offence, it is a joke.
>
> "What is British sex?" (traditional).
> "What is French sex?" (oral).
> "What is Georgian sex?" (homosexual rape).
> "What is American sex?" (a movie operator shoots all these scenes to a
> camera).
> "And what is Russian sex?" (comsomol members being fscked on a
> comsomol meeting for viewing that movie).
I don't know what comsomol is, except what you say below.
> Comsomol meetings were an interesting style, especially during
> Stalin's. When a senior schoolboy/girl commited some not-so-moral
> (from authorities point of view) deed, a meeting was assigned, led by
> the teachers.
> He/she was forced to stand, and all of his/her classmates (sitting)
> were suggested to say something like "this is terrible! how can you
How was the 'suggestion' made? Coerced in any way?
> commit this? this is really atrocious! I cannot even imagine doing
> this!". It was started by the teacher with "dear children! One of your
> have committed the Atrocious Evil Deed. Don't you know! This one did
> that! and then that! I just even cannot imagine doing such things!".
The kids wouldn't believe them. Rightfully so as you explain below.
> Then - often speeches about the Young Heroes Of Old Who Will Never Do
> Such and so.
... sounds of snoring heard from crowd ...
> The scene was clearly like El Cheapo theatre of hypocrisy. For
> instance, once my classmate and me were punished this way for buying
> beer in 15years old.
That's all that happened? A few minutes of trying to keep from
laughing?
> The fun note was that the 50years old female
> teacher was in the same beer shop with us, in the same queue, and
> bought a huge amount of beer. During the meeting, she started with...
> apologizing over pupils on herself being there! Surely, we turned that
> case to a theatre of fun.
> Nevertheless, during Stalin's, it was no fun. It was a prolog to
> serious repressions.
I can't imagine what that was like.
> If Mike reads this - I would be interested in his opinion on this. Are
> such "meetings" moral or not?
Can't imagine anyone here, especially the kids, taking that seriously.
Get them to shout that corny crap? How much did they get paid? Put
a flag in that guy's (who came up with that idea) hands! Is that it?
Such things are more-or-less handled in private, not attempting to use
a silly humiliation tactic that wouldn't stop a 15yo from buying beer
anyway. Also, they'd go after the liquor store owner.
Mike
Maxim S. Shatskih
Free community-based modem-based email network not depending on ISPs
and predating Internet.
> Not as such, but I'd get badly flamed if I explain it.
Can you send a private email?
> I don't know what comsomol is, except what you say below.
Young communist league. Semi-toy communist party for 14-27 years old.
> How was the 'suggestion' made? Coerced in any way?
Psychologically provoked by the teacher.
> > that! and then that! I just even cannot imagine doing such
things!".
>
> The kids wouldn't believe them. Rightfully so as you explain below.
Exactly. "I even cannot imagine" cannot be believed and is a hypocrisy
for sure.
BTW - sexual adventures of senior schoolgirls did not discussed this
way, and I had a classmate who was a prostitute in 15.
USSR authorities were _surprisingly_ mild (for a totalitarian state)
about sexual adventures.
> > Nevertheless, during Stalin's, it was no fun. It was a prolog to
> > serious repressions.
>
> I can't imagine what that was like.
In this case, often a decision on putting the person to repressions
was already made. Such a "meeting" (not only for children - for
adults, at work too) was a first round of repressions, followed by
more serious ones.
The same "meetings" were for Jews leaving to Israel in 70ies. Their
jobmates were crying at them and calling them traitors.
> Such things are more-or-less handled in private,
Publicity was the point. The intent was to humiliate more, but in
reality it turned to fun, not humiliation.
>not attempting to use
> a silly humiliation tactic
I agree.
>that wouldn't stop a 15yo from buying beer
> anyway.
Yes. Teachers considered saying "no" to be enough to stop this :-)
>Also, they'd go after the liquor store owner.
Teachers are not police, and there was not police at presense at
store. Police would not allow 15yo to buy beer, but the shop itself
sold it merrily, if no police around. In the worst case, an alcoholic
from the same queue could help for 1 additional bottle for him.
Note! This was during Gorbachev's "struggle for soberity"!
Max
Alexei A. Frounze
news:398c9ca7.02071...@posting.google.com...
> I don't really know what FIDO is (I've heard of it but that's all).
A non-profit/non-commercial network. Appeared before the inet. Still alive,
at least in the former USSR where the inet is still something of luxury. The
main (or the only) type of information exchange is e-mail (often with limits
of 16KB per message), attached files are usually UUENCODEd (binary data is
encoded to 7-bit chatacters using some algorithm) and split in parts to
accomodate message size limits. I guess that's about it.
Can you imagine it was like that before the inet appeared? :)
Good Luck
--
Alexei A. Frounze
http://alexfru.narod.ru
http://members.tripod.com/protected_mode/
w m r
what the heck ...
Ebonics - comes from 'ebony' + 'phonetics'
Some wacko idea from some California 'educators' who wanted to santify
the use of black ghetto dialect in the classroom. Oh, poor little
Talisha, can't say 'We are going to the store', she is only capable of
saying 'We be goin to de sto'. So it's ok to talk like that and write
like that in school.
It gets better. Part of their 'reasoning' was that it reflects some
African speech patterns and therefore protects their African heritage.
Fortunately, it died out. Black leaders were properly offended by the
idiocy.
So we have 'muzdie' = ebonics ('must die'), capice?
> BTW - sexual adventures of senior schoolgirls did not discussed this
> way, and I had a classmate who was a prostitute in 15.
too many leaders would have been caught in that queue, perhaps?
> USSR authorities were _surprisingly_ mild (for a totalitarian state)
> about sexual adventures.
hmm, this USSR you speak of doesn't sound too bad after all ;)
> Note! This was during Gorbachev's "struggle for soberity"!
sobriety
Mike
Maxim S. Shatskih
all).
>
>
> A non-profit/non-commercial network. Appeared before the inet. Still
alive,
> at least in the former USSR where the inet is still something of
luxury. The
More details:
- originated in America - as nearly anything computer-related except
Linux :-)
- community-based and free. You can use at-home computer for FIDO. No
infrastructure was required except usual computers and usual phone
lines and 2400 modem of that time.
- really predates Internet, at least wide use of Internet.
- the community had its hierarchy, people were called "points" and
"hubs" (slightly similar to Herbalife), the position in the hierarchy
reflected the route the email message will take. Your computer will
communicate with your "informal boss" computer and so on.
- addresses are like 2:5050/11 or in similar syntax.
- FIDO and BBSes are tightly coupled together. The classic BBS is a
thing similar to text-mode webserver with file download/upload
capacity. You have the need to redial to connect to a new BBS. No
online at all. On the client, a terminal emulator. On the server, some
special BBS software - usually DOS.
- instead of online, you should explicitly dial some numbers at some
hours, or start the server software and put the computer to accept
incoming dials at some hours.
- FIDO's email server software was called Frontdoor. A DOS app,
running exclusively and accessing the modem via the so-called Fossil
TSR program (I dunno why usual COMx file name or int 14h were not
used, possibly they have problems accepting incoming calls).
- to run Frontdoor in the background, FIDO people loved OS/2 who had
great DOS VM support.
- usually, Frontdoor runned in the couple of the BBS software.
Frontdoor starts, and, if the robot (another Frontdoor) is dialing,
email is exchanged. Otherwise, the human is suggested to press ESC to
bail out from Frontdoor to BBS server.
- FIDO was nearly 100% for computer geeks, not like Internet who
everybody use now. Lots of slang is from FIDO.
Strange if FIDO is not widely known on this NG.
Max
Maxim S. Shatskih
Neologisms are fine, but breaking the essential language rules is bad.
> > BTW - sexual adventures of senior schoolgirls did not discussed
this
> > way, and I had a classmate who was a prostitute in 15.
>
> too many leaders would have been caught in that queue, perhaps?
No. If leaders used sluts - the sluts were either KGB employees or
from organization like "ansable of song and dance". Or just
servicemaids in their apartments.
Such "girls from bar" as my classmate were usually used by people from
"black economy" or just criminals, who loved relaxing in bars. Since
prostitution was low (sexual adventures were mainly in the form of
just promiscuity, raised interest to mixed-gender drinking parties and
such, not paid work) - the prices were rather high, and not all people
(in fact, the minority of) could afford that.
Also - there are semi-prostitutes. They will go only with a
more-or-less pleasant guy and will not accept money from unpleasant
one. I think the classmate was this kind.
I know some details of her. First - acceleration, in terms of having a
body shape of a woman in around 12yo. Then - several female friends
much older then she. Then - visiting bars with them to find a man
there who will pay for them. Semi-prostitutes of Gorbachev's time were
such.
> > USSR authorities were _surprisingly_ mild (for a totalitarian
state)
> > about sexual adventures.
>
> hmm, this USSR you speak of doesn't sound too bad after all ;)
Nearly the only thing where authorities prosecute this was - no hotel
rooms for pairs which are not officially registered. "Place" was a
main problem for young street pickuper, and not "money" or "dominating
moral". :-)))
Max
Alexei A. Frounze
> Talisha, can't say 'We are going to the store', she is only capable of
> saying 'We be goin to de sto'. So it's ok to talk like that and write
> like that in school.
>
> It gets better. Part of their 'reasoning' was that it reflects some
> African speech patterns and therefore protects their African heritage.
>
> Fortunately, it died out. Black leaders were properly offended by the
> idiocy.
What a shit... I was scratching my head as to why the hell they talk like
that during my visit to the states. Still, that's weird.
Scott Wood
>- FIDO's email server software was called Frontdoor. A DOS app,
>running exclusively and accessing the modem via the so-called Fossil
>TSR program (I dunno why usual COMx file name or int 14h were not
>used, possibly they have problems accepting incoming calls).
Most, if not all, int 14h implementations were fairly bad, and prone to
losing characters at speeds over 1200 or 2400 or so. Pretty much any decent
communications software used its own (or a third party) interrupt-driven
code to access the serial ports.
COMx probably just uses int 14h, and thus would have the same problems.
-Scott
Alexei A. Frounze
news:slrnajjc4q...@loki.buserror.net...
I guess that's all about buffering the input. BIOS doesn't have any
dedicated buffers for chars received from UART. So, if you can't call BIOS
function quickly enough, you loose data. And this is why many decent DOS
terminal programs made all I/O interrupt driven and buffered bypassing the
BIOS.
t...@cs.ucr.edu
: "Maxim S. Shatskih" <ma...@storagecraft.com> wrote in message news:<agvc81$2dfn$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru>...
:> Maybe it is a good time to share some computer-related slang?
:> Are words "sux", "rulez" and "muzdie" really international? Since
:> they are from English, I expect them to be widely used in
:> English-speaking countries. Is it so?
:>
:> What is the origin of "muzdie"? Is it from "Jesus Christ -
:> Superstar"?
: I don't really hear that one much. You're thinking of 'must die must
: die this Jesus must die'?
I think that "... must die" is a variant of "death to ...", which has
currency in parts of the middle east. I can recall "Piggy must die"
from Lord of the Flies, but I doubt that is origin of its popularity.
Often comic books, popularize (or repopularize) old phrases and
nonstandard spellings.
If you are interested in pursuing any of this, check out the web page
for the KPBS radio's "A Way With Words". Use the link labeled "Ask
the verbivores". Those guys have amazing knowledge and resourcxes
regarding the origins of words and phrases.
Tom Payne
w m r
> "w m r" <wmr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:398c9ca7.02071...@posting.google.com...
> > the use of black ghetto dialect in the classroom. Oh, poor little
> > Talisha, can't say 'We are going to the store', she is only capable of
> > saying 'We be goin to de sto'. So it's ok to talk like that and write
> > like that in school.
> >
> > It gets better. Part of their 'reasoning' was that it reflects some
> > African speech patterns and therefore protects their African heritage.
> >
> > Fortunately, it died out. Black leaders were properly offended by the
> > idiocy.
>
>
> What a shit... I was scratching my head as to why the hell they talk like
> that during my visit to the states. Still, that's weird.
That talk is ok in non-academic environment. What kind of jobs would
allow people to talk to customers all over the country or write papers
in that slang? If that's all a person knows they won't get far,
they'll only be suited for jobs where communicating ideas is not
required (well, cept fo makin gansta rap, foo).
Mike
chris.danx
"Maxim S. Shatskih" <ma...@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:agvc81$2dfn$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
> Are words "sux", "rulez" and "muzdie" really international?
What the hell's a "muzdie"? A mustang or something?
Alexei A. Frounze
news:PPH_8.3392$k81.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
Just pronounce it and try to understand what it sounds like. :) Try
substitute s for z...
Maxim S. Shatskih
The words "sux" (bad), "rulez" (great) and "muzdie" (really "must
die", means "very bad", worse then "sux") are common among Russian
computer geeks, and also game fans from English-speaking countries.
I just wanted to discover the origin of them.
Max
ccr...@crayne.org
at 01:23 AM, "Maxim S. Shatskih" <ma...@storagecraft.com> said:
:The words "sux" (bad), "rulez" (great) and "muzdie" (really "must die",
:means "very bad", worse then "sux") are common among Russian computer
:geeks, and also game fans from English-speaking countries.
The slang term "sucks" comes from the phrase "sucking hind teat", based
upon a common belief that the teats which are nearest the rear of such
animals as cats, dogs, pigs, et. al. produce less milk.
"Rules" is used in the same sense as the song lyric "Britanica rules the
waves", and has been around about as long.
"Must die" is a modern translation of the latin ". . . delenda est".
None of these terms has anything in particular to do with either computer
geeks or game fans, and are commonly heard on television shows such as MTV
and The Simpsons.
"Suc, rulez, and muzdie", on the other hand, are illiterate mispellings by
script kiddies who think that they are "kewl".
w m r
> "Britanica rules the waves"
Yes, good ol' Britanica, where an encylopedia of knowledge tameth the
seas of chaos and ignorance.
Mike
Maxim S. Shatskih
mispellings by
> script kiddies who think that they are "kewl".
I saw these words written in Cyrillic :-) neologisms for Russian.
Max
ccr...@crayne.org
at 12:43 AM, "Maxim S. Shatskih" <ma...@storagecraft.com> said:
:I saw these words written in Cyrillic :-) neologisms for Russian.
More than twenty years have passed since I was in Russia, and my memory of
the Cyrillic alphabet has grown dim, but, as with any other language that
does not use the Roman alphabet, I expect transliterations to be phonetic.
When you are writing in English, however, if you use the misspelled forms,
you will be generally considered to be unprofessional.
Maxim S. Shatskih
that
> does not use the Roman alphabet, I expect transliterations to be
phonetic.
Surely.
> When you are writing in English, however, if you use the misspelled
forms,
> you will be generally considered to be unprofessional.
OK :-)
Max
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
wmr> Yes, good ol' Britanica, where an encylopedia of knowledge
wmr> tameth the seas of chaos and ignorance.
... including possibly informing one that it was Britannia who was
to rule the waves, not Britannica. (-:
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
Wrong. It's entirely possible to be a Fidonet node without having a BBS
at all.
MSS> - FIDO's email server software was called Frontdoor.
Wrong on two counts.
Fidonet's primary software was called "Fido" - hence the name of the
network. There is a large amount of _other_ programs, which used the
same communications protocols and message file formats as the original
Fido program, of which FrontDoor is just one. Others are Xenia Mailer,
BinkleyTerm, Adept, MainDoor ...
FrontDoor is just (one particular package that is) one _part_ of an
FTN system: the "door" program that performs automated file transfers
between systems. It is not the whole system. Moreover, it is not an
"email server", since it doesn't deal with "email" and it performs both
client and server rôles at various points. Other parts of a complete
system are the "tosser" that tosses incoming mail into the local
messagebase, the "scanner" that scans the local messagebase for mail
to send elsewhere, the "freq processor", the "nodelist processor",
and the "reader".