Freeware real mode C compiler.
Rob Koster
Me and a friend of mine are planning on making sort of a simple OS (as a
start we would like to try something DOS-alike). My question is: I use DJGPP
for the 32-bit protected mode programming. But I first must load GDT and
other things like that before loading the protected mode kernel. I am
looking for a freeware real mode C compiler. I have two (old) compilers here
named: TurboC (think v2.0) (also got the Turbo C++ 4.5) and MicroC. Does
anyone has any suggestions for a compiler to use. It's not only for this
part. We also first going to write a real mode sort of thing that loads real
mode programs (just to get going with some concepts of OS programming, file
systems, etc.).
Thanks in advance,
Rob Koster
P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Armin Bauer
If you want to use C, use Turbo C. But I think you'll need at least Inline
Assembly. So use NASM. This is better, I think.
Armin Bauer
"Rob Koster" <j.ko...@rendo.dekooi.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9fsnds$2eq$1...@reservenews.dekooi.nl...
Armin Bauer
If you want to use C, use Turbo C. But I think you'll need at least Inline
Assembly. So use NASM. This is better, I think.
Armin Bauer
"Rob Koster" <j.ko...@rendo.dekooi.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9fsnds$2eq$1...@reservenews.dekooi.nl...
Paul Edwards
news:9fsnds$2eq$1...@reservenews.dekooi.nl...
> Me and a friend of mine are planning on making sort of a simple OS (as a
> start we would like to try something DOS-alike).
Save yourself a lot of grief and start with:
http://freespace.virgin.net/paul.edwards3/program/pdos083.zip
It is public domain (genuine) so any time you spent learning
parts of it is not wasted, you can use it in your commerical
apps etc without restriction.
Feel free to improve it by all means! But it is DOS-like, as you want.
In fact, that's EXACTLY what it is.
> My question is: I use DJGPP
> for the 32-bit protected mode programming. But I first must load GDT and
> other things like that before loading the protected mode kernel. I am
> looking for a freeware real mode C compiler. I have two (old) compilers
here
> named: TurboC (think v2.0) (also got the Turbo C++ 4.5) and MicroC. Does
What is wrong with using them?
Anyway, your options are:
1. Hi-tech C.
2. LSI-C
3. GCC 16-bit version.
I can't give you links to any of them though, although the first two I
should have on CD somewhere if I looked hard enough.
But I think you will have a hell of a trouble using assembler with
at least the first one, maybe the second one too, don't know about
the third.
> anyone has any suggestions for a compiler to use. It's not only for this
> part. We also first going to write a real mode sort of thing that loads
real
> mode programs (just to get going with some concepts of OS programming,
file
> systems, etc.).
>
> P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
You never have to apologize for bad English. You learn English, we
learn to interpret bad English, that's the deal. :-) But anyhow, your
English is not even bad - I thought you were a native actually.
BFN. Paul.
plant-life
news:dqnU6.118345$ff.8...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
>
> You never have to apologize for bad English. You learn English, we
> learn to interpret bad English, that's the deal. :-) But anyhow, your
> English is not even bad - I thought you were a native actually.
>
> BFN. Paul.
Native? His English is better than most English people I know.
This is always the way! The youth of English speaking countries
don't know how to use grammar these days, when german and
french students come to this country, their english is always better
than most people I know.
--Dan
p.s. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Nasm
(I had a drive go, with Nasm, Spasm etc.. including all my links!)
cheers.
Paul Edwards
news:KppU6.123$tL.22135@wards...
> Native? His English is better than most English people I know.
> This is always the way! The youth of English speaking countries
> don't know how to use grammar these days, when german and
> french students come to this country, their english is always better
> than most people I know.
"this country" being UK?
Anyway, it's not as simple as you suggest, if foreign-translated
manuals are anything to go by. No matter how many PhDs
they get in English, or how many majors they do, they still make
mistakes that even the dumbest native can pick up.
E.g. my Daihatsu Sirion (from Japan) had in the front of the
manual. "If you have any query please contact the local
sales office" or something similar. So I'm allowed ONE
query am I? Better make it a good one, like "What's the
meaning of life, the universe and everything?".
It's not because the native was paying attention at school
when they were discussing intransitive verbs (cringe!), and
passed-out participles (vomit!) it's simply because they
watch that much TV in their native language. :-)
BFN. Paul.
Beth
> plant-life wrote:
> > Native? His English is better than most English people I know.
> > This is always the way! The youth of English speaking countries
> > don't know how to use grammar these days, when german and
> > french students come to this country, their english is always better
> > than most people I know.
>
> "this country" being UK?
It's UK with me, anyway...
> Anyway, it's not as simple as you suggest, if foreign-translated
> manuals are anything to go by. No matter how many PhDs
> they get in English, or how many majors they do, they still make
> mistakes that even the dumbest native can pick up.
Yeah, well...they lack the "Sprachesgefühl" (as my German grammar book
elequently puts it...you can always trust German to have a single compound
word for something that takes an entire sentence in English..."Zeitgeist" is
another example that comes to mind :) for that particular language...when
they make a mistake like that, it doesn't bug them like it does a native
speaker hearing something said incorrectly...I think if they had that sense
and could detect it, then they'd know immediately (from their PhDs and stuff
:), that they'd buggered it up royally...like my pathetic attempts at German
are plagued by the same problem...I'll say something, seems fine to me and
then someone'll point out it's wrong and I'll mentally run through the
grammar rules and kick myself...I did know it was wrong, I just failed to
spot the "typo", shall we say? Much like bugs in programs...often, you just
don't see them but once you do, you're kicking yourself for being so dumb...
So, to be fair, things like that aren't a lack of intellectual ability in a
language...it's more the lack of the required "Sprachesgefühl" to sense
you've made a mistake...and, basically, it's quite embarassing to see the
difference in language skills between English and non-native English
speakers...my German is bloody awful and I know it...but, then, when I went
to Germany, everyone below a certain age was, basically, fluent in
English...ok, they made mistakes here and there but nothing you wouldn't
expect...you know, the standard things of literally translating a saying
("Redensart"...I've grown to prefer the German word, as it's more
explicit..."saying" doesn't quite capture it, really..."style of speaking"
(rough translation) hits the nail on the head better, I feel :) or,
basically, almost always from accidentally reverting to thinking in a
German-like manner...for instance, the Japanese and the Chinese and some
parts of Asia and Africa (I had some friends from Vietnam and Gambia that do
this all the time :) are the most likely to mess up plurals because there
isn't a direct equivalent in their native tongues and end up being too
literal in translation, forget the "s" at the end and you get odd things (in
fact, that's exactly the problem you cite below, isn't it? :)...
> E.g. my Daihatsu Sirion (from Japan) had in the front of the
> manual. "If you have any query please contact the local
> sales office" or something similar. So I'm allowed ONE
> query am I? Better make it a good one, like "What's the
> meaning of life, the universe and everything?".
Yes, because the way we do plurals is nothing like how the Japanese do
plurals (I've only had a small look at Japanese - though I'd love to learn
it, it sounds so cool - but, if my memory serves correctly, the reason is
simple...there is NO plural in that language at all...so, "wow!", what a
surprise that this doesn't come naturally to them...try conjugating or
transmutation or having a "word" that's only there to make the subject clear
(no direct translation at all...it's totally alien to English :) or flipping
word order around according to case and then see how well you'd do...
I've seen much worse examples than that...I could easily see that happening
(or worse :) in a manual from England or America or Australia or whatever
too...that's positively saintly in comparison to some mistakes people
make...not a good example...
The one infamous bad translation that's probably most topical on the
internet would be:
"All your base are belong to us"...hehehe :)
If you don't know what I'm referring to, do a web search for "AYB.SWF" or
"AYB2.SWF" or "all your base are belong to us" or something and find the
shockwave file...some people are so unkind about a simple bad translation
(but, yes, it is quite frankly a hilarious thing to watch :)...
> It's not because the native was paying attention at school
> when they were discussing intransitive verbs (cringe!), and
> passed-out participles (vomit!) it's simply because they
> watch that much TV in their native language. :-)
So, what do limey Brits or darn-tooting Yanks or bonza Aussies have as an
excuse?
I mean, not exactly countries known to abstain from TV watching, eh? We
should all be as good as Shakespeare..."Sooth, Billy-bob hath entertained a
young wench within the confines of his trailer-park home...Egads! The
aforementioned young wench has become as fat in her belly as beer-swilling
Billy-bob himself...what devilish schemes did the couple engage in during
the brief time they'd spent together?"...hehehehe :)
Beth :)
Beth
> Paul Edwards wrote:
> > > P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
> >
> > You never have to apologize for bad English. You learn English, we
> > learn to interpret bad English, that's the deal. :-) But anyhow, your
> > English is not even bad - I thought you were a native actually.
>
> This is always the way! The youth of English speaking countries
> don't know how to use grammar these days, when german and
> french students come to this country, their english is always better
> than most people I know.
Yeah...they don't teach English grammar very well these days and you get
quite awful grammar from native speakers at times (and, yes, probably
including myself in there :)...BUT when people learn English as a foreign
language, they have to properly learn the grammar and spelling constructs in
order to get to grips with it (it, obviously, doesn't come naturally because
it's not their mother tongue :) and, often, end up speaking better English
than people who've spent their entire lives speaking it...a sad fact but all
too often, a very true fact...
Being quite obsessed with punctuation, it often gets to me just how crap
most English speakers are with punctuation...they only use commas to
separate numbers in "db" statements or to mark units of a thousand (e.g.
3,546...but even that's not very common, thanks to computers not handling
this notation very well in the old days :) and think that's all they are
there for...really, some sentences only make sense when you put a comma in
the right place...it's no just provided for fun, you know...hehehehe ;)
Anyway, anyway...English is no longer "owned" by any one country (and I do
say this speaking from England, as an Englishwoman...so I do recognise this
and, quite frankly, am very happy it's this way :), so we all have a say in
it, whatever our own mother tongues, I feel...I mean, if I had my way,
colour and minimise would be spelt "correctly" in the Windows include
files...and everyone would say "full stop" and not bring up menstruation
("period" :) at the end of every sentence (as if it's not bad enough as it
is without being reminded of it all the bloody time...hehehehe :)
Beth :)
Paul Edwards
news:vsOU6.34404$fs6.2...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> files...and everyone would say "full stop" and not bring up menstruation
> ("period" :) at the end of every sentence (as if it's not bad enough as it
> is without being reminded of it all the bloody time...hehehehe :)
I recently found out that if you take the contraceptive pill (and
assuming you have no serious side-effects from it), take the
active ones continuously, your periods stop.
Like unbelievable man! I can't believe the work you women
make for yourselves! I can tell you that if I were female, I
would have been on the contraceptive pill (active only) from
the age of about 11. I may or may not have let the first one
through. Probably I would have. But that's it. First and last
time I'm ever going to do that!!!
It's a bit like why do smokers go all the way down in the lift
and stand out in the cold and rain to smoke, when they could
be using a nicorette inhaler from their comfy desk with their
feet up? Bizarre.
Now if they will get off their arses and invent a fat-eating pill,
I'll be set! Well, except for my back problems from sitting
around too much. I should probably stay in bed more.
BFN. Paul.
Tim Robinson
> E.g. my Daihatsu Sirion (from Japan) had in the front of the
> manual. "If you have any query please contact the local
> sales office" or something similar. So I'm allowed ONE
> query am I? Better make it a good one, like "What's the
> meaning of life, the universe and everything?".
Just found this web site: http://www.engrish.com/
Hilarious!
--
Tim Robinson <http://www.gaat.freeserve.co.uk/>
"We waste, we destroy, and we cling like savages to our superstitions. We
give power to leaders of state and church as prejudiced and small-minded as
ourselves, who squander our resources on instruments of destruction, while
millions continue to suffer and go hungry, condemned forever..."
Michael Zandstra
countries? Besides, to be very honest, In my country I've never heard
any frenchman even trying to speak an other language than his own, or it
sounds like he's trying to catch the train (a dutch saying for trying to
speak very fast) but then with a lot of "uh" (3 times between 2 words or
so). The only french that I've seen using English are here on the
als.os.development and the tourist-information.
Greetz,
Michael.
--
Why is "256 Ways To Make Love" the most quoted book on the Internet?
It is the Fucking Manual
Rob Koster
Quite odd, never thought my post would end up in a 'discussion' (if we can
call it that) like this. Well, back to the original, followed the advice of
using asm. I now use (n)asm for the boot-stuff and load the kernel, which I
compile with gcc 32-bit pmode.
Thanks for answering my questions and giving me some other lecture (the
'discussion') to read.
Rob Koster
Michael Zandstra <mic...@zandstra.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
3B24FE27...@zandstra.net...
Jancsi Farkas
__asm__(".code16gcc"); at the beginning of the C file.
Jancsi
"Michael Zandstra" <mic...@zandstra.net> wrote in message
news:3B24FE27...@zandstra.net...
Beth
> Why do people allways think that europe is just existing out of a few
> countries? Besides, to be very honest, In my country I've never heard
> any frenchman even trying to speak an other language than his own, or it
> sounds like he's trying to catch the train (a dutch saying for trying to
> speak very fast) but then with a lot of "uh" (3 times between 2 words or
> so). The only french that I've seen using English are here on the
> als.os.development and the tourist-information.
Aaah...the French are a bit different because they also have an
international "standard" language (maybe not as big as English in this
regard but it's nothing to scoff at :)...plus, the French are a proud people
and value their beautiful language (they have societies dedicated to
protecting the language from "invasion" of English words...English doesn't
have this because it's a bastardised language - including strong French
influence - to begin with...if English had this attitude, it wouldn't even
exist...it's a different set-up...lol :)...
As for not speaking any language other than your own...well,
English-speakers are probably the biggest culprit there, if we're
honest...when I was going round Muenchen at the Oktoberfest - when I lived
in Germany - there was this American there and he said openly and loudly to
his wife: "Oh! Don't bother with their little language...they all speak
English, anyway."...well, I must confess, this pissed me off a bit...if he
was just a tourist for a few days then, yeah, it might not be worth major
study (but at least learn a few words...even if only to show willing and
respectful of other people's cultures and languages :) but I eavesdropped on
his conversation and he'd been there for years and never bothered to learn a
thing...
Problem was, the Germans could hear him say this and, of course, most
understood exactly the disrespect he was showing but didn't want to cause a
scene (though I don't want to break Basil Fawlty's golden rule and mention
the war...there is a reluctance at times to Germans defending their language
and culture like this because people will just wrongly accuse them of being
Nazis or something :)...so, I was pissed off enough and was exempted from
being polite and not saying anything to him...and I turned around and
started bitching at him for it...I was amazed because he actually caved in
really easily and looked quite ashamed about what he'd said...basically, he
knew in his heart that he was wrong to say these things and couldn't come up
with any defence for what he'd said...
And, yes...ok, ok...I wasn't as brave accosting him as it might
sound...after all, I was defending the German language in Germany surrounded
by Germans (who seemed very happy I'd had the balls to tell him off :)...I
was in good company...probably would have been to chicken to do it
otherwise...I can be loud and brash but I'm not totally stupid...there are
times for discreet silence too...hehehe ;)
Beth :)
Alexei A. Frounze
> As for not speaking any language other than your own...well,
> English-speakers are probably the biggest culprit there, if we're
> honest...when I was going round Muenchen at the Oktoberfest - when I lived
> in Germany - there was this American there and he said openly and loudly
to
> his wife: "Oh! Don't bother with their little language...they all speak
> English, anyway."...well, I must confess, this pissed me off a bit...if he
> was just a tourist for a few days then, yeah, it might not be worth major
> study (but at least learn a few words...even if only to show willing and
> respectful of other people's cultures and languages :) but I eavesdropped
on
> his conversation and he'd been there for years and never bothered to learn
a
> thing...
What am I gonna do if I move to work or travel or something to a country in
which a native language is neither English nor Russian? OK, forget about the
work thing, consider travelling. If they refuse to talk any of the two, what
should I do? Immediately sign up for a native-language class?
There was one little story in 98... I went to Spain with the people for a
vacation. We stopped in a small club called ... what happend to my memory
... ... uh, whatever. :) There were two women in the club administration who
spoke Russian so that whenever we needed any kind of advise we could get it
easily. One day we went to Granada to see the Alhambra castle and other
stuff in there. The guide was a very interesting person, he was Spanish but
he got his higher education in St.Peterburg, Russia, so he could speek
Russian very well. He also knew Russian customs and gave all tourists some
invaluable advise in this respect (e.g. what to avoid doing in Spain though
it can be ok in Russia :). All the way to Granada he was speaking about
Spain, its history, culture, current economics and politics and it was quite
interesting, needless to say that when this all information is told by a
native Spanish w/o an interpreter, this is real good, quite alot of stuff
can be fit in a few hours easily. I'll skip details about the Granada and
Alhambra, it's not relevant here, if you want you can go there and see them
yourself. The point is that we were quite comfortable in Spain w/o knowing
the language. After we finished seeing the sights, we had a few free hours
until the bus, so we went to the city for a walk. Somehow I managed to fall
down and injure a hand and a knee, so I was limping and bleading and needed
some help. My mom (she's a doctor, btw) started looking for a pharmacy to
buy some desinfecting stuff, cotton and bandage. We found a pharmacy very
quickly and entered it. And here we got the problem. We don't speak Spanish,
the guy who is working here doesn't speak English or German or Russian...
And for some reason he couldn't realize what we wanted from him, though we
showed up him my bleeding knee and performed some play... He couldn't get
it. My mom was trying to get how to explain him what we need... And at some
point she figured out that it must be simple, yeah, that is, just go ahead
and use some Latin in conjunction with chemical formulas... After a few
tries she wrote down H2O2 and at this point the guy started getting what we
needed from him. It wasn't hard to get the rest of stuff... This was a
really funny situation.
But what if it's not that simple as H2O2? :)
Good Luck
--
Alexei A. Frounze
alexfru [AT] chat [DOT] ru
http://alexfru.chat.ru
http://members.xoom.com/alexfru/
http://welcome.to/pmode/
Maxim S. Shatskih
> assuming you have no serious side-effects from it), take the
> active ones continuously, your periods stop.
Great topic for _alt.os.development_ newsgroup
:-)))))))
Max
Beth
Sorry, my fault for bringing it up...although, it was only a small joke and
I certainly wasn't expecting a long reply about it...hehehe :)
Beth :)
Beth
I ended up in Germany not knowing a word of German (well, obviously, things
like "Guten Tag!" everyone knows...but nothing useful...so, I'm not saying
this as just some clever theory...it's spoken from some hard realities I've
met :)...now, I didn't say "don't speak English ever"...I just said that an
attempt should be made to learn something, as and when it shows up...I was
using sign-language and pointing to things or picking them up and taking
them to the counter in shops but I asked people what I needed to say for
certain things (e.g. "Ich verstehe nicht" or "Je ne comprehend pas" or "I
don't understand" are the best types of sentences to learn first in a
foreign language...not "Hello!" or "how are you?" as they always seem to
start teaching first...yes, it sounds a bit dumb but you're in a sticky
situation and this clarifies things properly to begin with..."honesty is the
best policy", as the saying goes...pulling out stock phrases about the
weather is just pretending you know more than you do and will just end in
tears when they talk about a tornado or something and you didn't reach
tornadoes in your lessons yet...hehehe...then, both parties know there's
trouble and can work out a way to communicate better :)...
I'm not saying you should know the entire language instantly and refuse
point-blank to speak anything else...I'm just saying that you should be
willing to make the transition whenever possible and not do what this
American guy did (who wasn't a tourist but had been living there for
years...far longer than I'd been there :) and refuse to learn anything to
make things convenient for himself and force everyone else to do all the
hard work in trying to speak a non-native tongue...as you pick things up,
start using them...this is not just about being respectful to others but,
also, it'll do you immense favours in the long-run...the only practical way
to learn a new language is to use it...you can read a million theory books
but until you start to actually try to use the language, it won't come to
you quickly or properly...you have to get your mind working in that foreign
language...and, then, when you meet a tricky situation, it's made far, far
easier to cope with...what if our American friend had got hit by a bus? His
health could be put in jeopordy from his refusal to learn the language...as,
to an extent, your little story illustrates is only too possible...
> There was one little story in 98... I went to Spain with the people for a
[snip]
> My mom was trying to get how to explain him what we need... And at some
> point she figured out that it must be simple, yeah, that is, just go ahead
> and use some Latin in conjunction with chemical formulas... After a few
> tries she wrote down H2O2 and at this point the guy started getting what
we
> needed from him. It wasn't hard to get the rest of stuff... This was a
> really funny situation.
> But what if it's not that simple as H2O2? :)
Well done, Mommy!!! Yay!!! :)
Does anyone remember the "ASM is a dead language like Latin" thread? The
defence asks this to be labelled as evidence and finally rests their open
and shut case...hehehe ;)
Beth :)
Paul Edwards
Yeah, I agree, it's completely and utterly Beth's fault. I would never
ever ever ever ever post off-topic messages in a newsgroup if it
weren't for her.
BFN. Paul.
Tim Robinson
news:9g70l0$786bh$1...@ID-57378.news.dfncis.de...
> After a few
> tries she wrote down H2O2 and at this point the guy started getting what
we
> needed from him. It wasn't hard to get the rest of stuff... This was a
> really funny situation.
> But what if it's not that simple as H2O2? :)
What did she want, bleach?
Maxim S. Shatskih
> > :-)))))))
>
> Sorry, my fault for bringing it up...although, it was only a small joke
and
> I certainly wasn't expecting a long reply about it...hehehe :)
Really - I just admire you :-) brilliant girl! really!
Max
Jan Welti
better). And I don't think the British or Americans are the only ones who
can watch TV in their native language. We have lot's of Finnish high-quality
programs and BTW I completely understand English programs that don't have
sub-titles. I have for instance M:I-2 and Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 1
DVD's that don't have subtitles (they're UK versions from amazon.co.uk).
"Paul Edwards" <kerr...@nosppaam.w3.to> wrote in message
news:JNpU6.118804$ff.8...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Alexei A. Frounze
news:9gd4qe$b8h$4...@news.kolumbus.fi...
> I'm Finnish, but I do speak and write English very well (and Swedish even
> better). And I don't think the British or Americans are the only ones who
> can watch TV in their native language. We have lot's of Finnish
high-quality
> programs and BTW I completely understand English programs that don't have
> sub-titles. I have for instance M:I-2 and Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season
1
> DVD's that don't have subtitles (they're UK versions from amazon.co.uk).
Not a big deal. I haven't read books nor I watched TV in english until last
fall (autumn :). My family never had enough money for things like satllite
dish nor we all knew foreign languages well. I went to US last summer, it
was a bit tough in the very beginning but after a couple of months it was
okay to read English, to watch movies in English etc etc. Now, after being
here a year, I think I'm quite a bit accustomed to American English so that
British makes me smiling... :)
It's not really a big deal. Just go ahead and use the langauge in any kind
of form (better in many forms tho).
Alexei A. Frounze
news:9gclgn$q34$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Excuse me?
Tim Robinson
> > > After a few
> > > tries she wrote down H2O2 and at this point the guy started getting
what
> > we
> > > needed from him. It wasn't hard to get the rest of stuff... This was a
> > > really funny situation.
> > > But what if it's not that simple as H2O2? :)
> >
> > What did she want, bleach?
>
> Excuse me?
H2O2: hydrogen peroxide, I think. An effective bleach.
Alexei A. Frounze
It is, but you either didn't read my post or forgot to append ":)".
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2001-06-15 timothy....@ic.ac.invalid said:
>Alexei A. Frounze <ale...@chat.ru> wrote:
>
> > After a few tries she wrote down H2O2 and at this point the guy
> > started getting what we needed from him. It wasn't hard to get
> > the rest of stuff... This was a really funny situation.
> > But what if it's not that simple as H2O2? :)
>
>What did she want, bleach?
Hydrogen peroxide.
Using bleach to disinfect a wound might be, uh...
just a bit extreme. ;)
anon...@bogus_address.com
On 2001-06-15 ma...@storagecraft.com said:
>Really - I just admire you :-) brilliant girl! really!
>Max
Once again, Bethie, you've woven your magic spell
and have created yet =another= devotee! ;)
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2001-06-15 jwe...@kolumbus.fi said:
>I'm Finnish, but I do speak and write English very well (and
>Swedish even better). And I don't think the British or Americans
>are the only ones who can watch TV in their native language. We
>have lots of Finnish high-quality programs and BTW I completely
>understand English programs that don't have sub-titles. I have for
>instance M:I-2 and Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 1 DVD's that
>don't have subtitles (they're UK versions from amazon.co.uk).
Yes, your English is excellent.
Things are very different in Scandinavia than in the rest
of the world.
Scandinavian school systems start teaching foreign languages
to Scandinavian children at a young age.
But this usually does not happen in America and Britain.
When I watch a video of 'Babette's Feast' in Danish, I must
have sub-titles. :)
Dominic Grosleau
beginning to think that here in quebec (a province somewhere in eastern
canada) we are really off-track ... Our government is preaching that french
is the only viable language here in north america (aka we are only 7
millions out of 400 millions americans and a few dozens millions mexican
guys) !
I've never understood that kinda policy from a government... i mean, as Beth
already said a few posts ago ;) , u gotta show some respect to people with
different culture .. like if you're visiting u should try to learn and
actually USE the language in use at that place and same thing if people come
over .. For the rest I believe there's a way to praise our native culture
while not ignoring those of others..
Since english is first the international business language today and by far
the most commonly used language in north america i think our government
should put some huge efforts in making up a good second language (aka
english) program.. thats just common sense.... isnt it ?
<anonymous@bogus_address.con> wrote in message
news:tiksj8b...@corp.supernews.com...
Alexei A. Frounze
news:tiksj19...@corp.supernews.com...
If there's no alcohol, this is a good option. Have been used several times
on me successfully :)
Maxim S. Shatskih
Are you an old Bethie's friend from alt.os.assembly?
Max
Tim Robinson
> > > > What did she want, bleach?
> > > Excuse me?
> > H2O2: hydrogen peroxide, I think. An effective bleach.
> It is, but you either didn't read my post or forgot to append ":)".
Ahhhh... <flash of inspiration>
I only read the bit Beth quoted. I didn't realise it was for her leg! :)
Alexei A. Frounze
*her*???
LOL! :)
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2001-06-15 dom...@videotron.ca said:
>Since english is first the international business language today
>and by far the most commonly used language in north america i think
>our government should put some huge efforts in making up a good
>second language (aka english) program.. thats just common sense....
>isnt it ?
But, you see, there's nothing sensical -- common or otherwise --
about the Quebecois. They're playing the old emotion-based,
political-correctness 'minority victim' game. And it sucks.
It might be a bit easier to take if they spoke =good= French.
But they don't. That bastardized Frog-talk they speak can
hardly be understood in any =real= French-speaking country. :)
The Quebecois need to come to terms with the fact that they live
on an English-speaking continent...and then GET OVER IT! ;)
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2001-06-15 ale...@chat.ru said:
> timothy....@ic.ac.invalid said:
>
> > > What did she want, bleach?
>
><anonymous@bogus_address.con> wrote:
>
> > Hydrogen peroxide.
> >
> > Using bleach to disinfect a wound might be, uh...
> > just a bit extreme. ;)
>
>If there's no alcohol, this is a good option. Have been used
>several times on me successfully :)
I assume you mean hydrogen peroxide, and not
sodium hypochlorite.
Fortunately, there's =never= a shortage of
alcohol in Russia. Wodka is ubiquitous! ;)
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2001-06-16 ma...@storagecraft.com said:
>Are you an old Bethie's friend from alt.os.assembly?
Well, you're =half= right, anyway. :)
Alexei A. Frounze
news:tiluadi...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> On 2001-06-15 ale...@chat.ru said:
>
> > timothy....@ic.ac.invalid said:
> >
> > > > What did she want, bleach?
> >
> ><anonymous@bogus_address.con> wrote:
> >
> > > Hydrogen peroxide.
> > >
> > > Using bleach to disinfect a wound might be, uh...
> > > just a bit extreme. ;)
> >
> >If there's no alcohol, this is a good option. Have been used
> >several times on me successfully :)
>
> I assume you mean hydrogen peroxide, and not
> sodium hypochlorite.
Correct.
> Fortunately, there's =never= a shortage of
> alcohol in Russia. Wodka is ubiquitous! ;)
That was in Spain :)
Paul Edwards
music in English. Which means they reach a FAR greater
audience than they would otherwise reach.
What I'd like to see them do is extend this concept and
produce 10%/5%/1%/whatever of their MOVIES in English
too, and similarly get that wider audience.
It would be interesting as an experiment if nothing else!
BFN. Paul.
"Jan Welti" <jwe...@kolumbus.fi> wrote in message
news:9gd4qe$b8h$4...@news.kolumbus.fi...
Tim Robinson
> *her*???
>
> LOL! :)
Your!
Maxim S. Shatskih
> alcohol in Russia.
There was. Late USSR in late 80ies. It was extremely hard to purchase
alcohol that time.
>Wodka is ubiquitous! ;)
Sorry, but "vodka".
Max
Maxim S. Shatskih
> music in English
Same on Germans.
Scorpions
Helloween
Running Wild
Gamma Ray
Kreator
Mekong Delta
and so on.
All are Germans, all have English music.
Max
Maxim S. Shatskih
> political-correctness 'minority victim' game. And it sucks.
These games are always sux.
> The Quebecois need to come to terms with the fact that they live
> on an English-speaking continent...and then GET OVER IT! ;)
For now, they even have an immigration laws which welcome the
French-speakers.
Max
chris.danx
>
> Me and a friend of mine are planning on making sort of a simple OS (as a
> start we would like to try something DOS-alike). My question is: I use DJGPP
> for the 32-bit protected mode programming. But I first must load GDT and
> other things like that before loading the protected mode kernel. I am
> looking for a freeware real mode C compiler. I have two (old) compilers here
> named: TurboC (think v2.0) (also got the Turbo C++ 4.5) and MicroC. Does
> anyone has any suggestions for a compiler to use. It's not only for this
> part. We also first going to write a real mode sort of thing that loads real
> mode programs (just to get going with some concepts of OS programming, file
> systems, etc.).
Someone suggested the DigitalMars compiler on alt.msdos.programmer. You can get
it from http://www.digitalmars.com/.
note: not sure if it's restricted in anyway, you'd have to check.
Chris
Jancsi Farkas
check http://nightmare.integrasoft.ro
"chris.danx" <chris...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:SyPW6.20338$A45.2...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Paul Edwards
news:9gg03v$8ig$9...@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
I think he was drunk on vodka and his speech was slurred.
BFN. Paul.
Paul Edwards
not heard of any of them. So are your good bands not
singing in English or something?
The only German song I know of was Nina's "99 air balloons",
which was sung in German here (Australia). It was the German
version that was popular, not the English version. The German
version was very good.
BFN. Paul.
"Maxim S. Shatskih" <ma...@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:9gg03v$8ig$8...@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
Maxim S. Shatskih
> not heard of any of them. So are your good bands not
> singing in English or something?
These bands are hard rock, heavy metal, thrash metal etc.
German bands singing in English.
Max
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2001-06-16 kerr...@nosppaam.w3.to said:
> > > Wodka is ubiquitous! ;)
>
> > Sorry, but "vodka".
>
>I think he was drunk on vodka and his speech was slurred.
Actually, I was spelling it in English
the way a Ruskie pronounces it in Russian.
'V's are pronounced like an English 'W'...
so 'vodka' in Russian is pronounced 'wodka.'
__
"We will bury you!" - Nikita Kruschev
Alexei A. Frounze
news:tiohf6g...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> On 2001-06-16 kerr...@nosppaam.w3.to said:
>
> > > > Wodka is ubiquitous! ;)
> >
> > > Sorry, but "vodka".
> >
> >I think he was drunk on vodka and his speech was slurred.
>
> Actually, I was spelling it in English
> the way a Ruskie pronounces it in Russian.
>
> 'V's are pronounced like an English 'W'...
> so 'vodka' in Russian is pronounced 'wodka.'
I'm Russian too, I know that "vodka" is a right thing, whereas "wodka" -
must be something else. :)
Maxim S. Shatskih
> the way a Ruskie pronounces it in Russian.
>
> 'V's are pronounced like an English 'W'...
Wrong. English "W" is short "U" in Russian. Not used in Russian at all,
except for English words. Often denoted by "U" in Russian.
For instance - in the Russian translation of the book on Sherlock Holmes the
doctor's name was "Uotson".
English "V" is same as Russian "V" (Cyrillic "B") - they are spelled nearly
the same.
Max
Tim Robinson
> > 'V's are pronounced like an English 'W'...
>
> Wrong. English "W" is short "U" in Russian. Not used in Russian at all,
> except for English words. Often denoted by "U" in Russian.
> For instance - in the Russian translation of the book on Sherlock Holmes
the
> doctor's name was "Uotson".
Yes, I remember seeing in a teach-yourself-Russian book that Russians would
have a big problem saying the name of the British paper "News of the World",
before of the 'th' and the 'W' (I think it went something like 'Neus of
Uorld').
Maxim S. Shatskih
would
> have a big problem saying the name of the British paper "News of the
World",
> before of the 'th' and the 'W' (I think it went something like 'Neus of
> Uorld').
Sorry, where is "th" in "news"? :-))))
But about "th" and "w" - 100% so. "th" and "w" are the first things the
Russian schoolchildren are taught on the English lessons :-)
On the other hand, Russian has, for instance, "zh" as a single letter. "zh"
is to "sh" as "z" is to "s". "sh" is a single letter too.
In fact, the 2 languages are _very severely_ different. Your mouth and
tongue is absolutely in other position while speaking Russian then speaking
English.
Grammar style is different. Russian uses flexible postfixes where English
uses prepositions.
For instance (English/Russian):
"to Tim" - "Timu"
"of Tim" - "Tima"
"by Tim" - "Timom"
Surely this feature makes English as a better language for computers than
Russian.
Max
Tim Robinson
> Sorry, where is "th" in "news"? :-))))
Where's the F in news? There's no f***ing news! (sorry, an English pun)
> On the other hand, Russian has, for instance, "zh" as a single letter.
"zh"
> is to "sh" as "z" is to "s". "sh" is a single letter too.
What about "shsh"? Is that literally two "sh" sounds together?
> Grammar style is different. Russian uses flexible postfixes where English
> uses prepositions.
>
> For instance (English/Russian):
>
> "to Tim" - "Timu"
> "of Tim" - "Tima"
> "by Tim" - "Timom"
Yes, I noticed similarities between what little Russian I know and what
Greek I used to know. Those three are dative, genitive and ablative(?),
aren't they?
> Surely this feature makes English as a better language for computers than
> Russian.
I'd probably find English easier to parse, because you've got fewer
"keywords" and more "syntax".
Maxim S. Shatskih
Where did you saw this?
> Yes, I noticed similarities between what little Russian I know and what
> Greek I used to know. Those three are dative, genitive and ablative(?),
> aren't they?
What is "ablative"?
Max
Tim Robinson
> > What about "shsh"? Is that literally two "sh" sounds together?
> Where did you saw this?
Most Cyrillic-to-Latin transliteration tables.
> > Yes, I noticed similarities between what little Russian I know and what
> > Greek I used to know. Those three are dative, genitive and ablative(?),
> > aren't they?
>
> What is "ablative"?
It's a Greek case, although now I think that Russian doesn't have it
(looking at a Russian noun table once, I noticed all the Greek cases except
one -- could have been ablative). Unless ablative is a Latin one. I think it
means "for/by/with Tim".
Maxim S. Shatskih
> > Where did you saw this?
>
> Most Cyrillic-to-Latin transliteration tables.
This Cyrillic letter sounds the same as English "sh".
> one -- could have been ablative). Unless ablative is a Latin one. I think
it
> means "for/by/with Tim".
I understand.
Max
Tim Robinson
> > > > What about "shsh"? Is that literally two "sh" sounds together?
> This Cyrillic letter sounds the same as English "sh".
So what does the letter "sh" sound like? :)
Alexei A. Frounze
> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <ma...@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> news:9glabj$1vq4$3...@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
> > Sorry, where is "th" in "news"? :-))))
>
> Where's the F in news? There's no f***ing news! (sorry, an English pun)
>
> > On the other hand, Russian has, for instance, "zh" as a single letter.
> "zh"
> > is to "sh" as "z" is to "s". "sh" is a single letter too.
>
> What about "shsh"? Is that literally two "sh" sounds together?
I haven't such an ugly thing in either of the two languages. Have you? :)
Tim Robinson
> I haven't such an ugly thing in either of the two languages. Have you? :)
I've seen plenty of ugly stuff in English!
For example, the classic '-ough' problem. Through, bough, enough, etc.
Maxim S. Shatskih
"Daughter" is another sample threatining for all beginning English speaker.
Max
Maxim S. Shatskih
>
> So what does the letter "sh" sound like? :)
Like in "shape".
Max
Tim Robinson
| > > This Cyrillic letter sounds the same as English "sh".
| >
| > So what does the letter "sh" sound like? :)
|
| Like in "shape".
So "shsh" and "sh" sound the same then?
Maxim S. Shatskih
> |
> | Like in "shape".
>
> So "shsh" and "sh" sound the same then?
I dunno what is "shsh".
Russian has a letter shaped as "E turned 90 degrees counterclockwise" and is
spelled "sh".
That is all.
Max
Alexei A. Frounze
> > For example, the classic '-ough' problem. Through, bough, enough, etc.
>
> "Daughter" is another sample threatining for all beginning English
speaker.
I once posted to either AOD or CLAX86 a list of things which I don't like in
English. Wanna bring it up again? :)
Tim Robinson
| I dunno what is "shsh".
| Russian has a letter shaped as "E turned 90 degrees
counterclockwise" and is
| spelled "sh".
| That is all.
I was probably thinking of the wrong thing: "shch" (same as "sh" but
with a tail on the bottom right). Unicode has it: U+0429 Cyrillic
Capital Letter Shcha.
Alexei A. Frounze
This is now correct. Though I don't know how to explain the way it sounds...
You may think of it as "s" followed by "ch" (like in "chalk"), but it's
actually a single sound.
Maxim S. Shatskih
> with a tail on the bottom right). Unicode has it: U+0429 Cyrillic
> Capital Letter Shcha.
This is a mildened form of "sh".
Max
Jan Welti
Darude, Kwan, Bomfunk MCs, Tik n' Tak, Aika, Manboy etc...
"Maxim S. Shatskih" <ma...@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:9ggogr$s8i$3...@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
Alexei A. Frounze
news:9gnm3q$4md$6...@news.kolumbus.fi...
> Don't forget about the Finns when it comes to music! You must have heard
of
> Darude, Kwan, Bomfunk MCs, Tik n' Tak, Aika, Manboy etc...
Must? :)
I haven't. Really.
Jan Welti
Doesn't sandstorm, out of control or fell the beat sound familiar?
"Alexei A. Frounze" <ale...@chat.ru> wrote in message
news:9gnn95$a3094$1...@ID-57378.news.dfncis.de...
Tim Robinson
> > German bands singing in English.
of
> Darude, Kwan, Bomfunk MCs, Tik n' Tak, Aika, Manboy etc...
Must I have heard of *all* of these? :)
When it comes to music, the Brits rule!
Jan Welti
Brits do make great music.
"Tim Robinson" <timothy....@ic.ac.invalid> wrote in message
Alexei A. Frounze
Good Luck
--
Alexei A. Frounze
alexfru [AT] chat [DOT] ru
http://alexfru.chat.ru
http://members.xoom.com/alexfru/
http://welcome.to/pmode/
"Jan Welti" <jwe...@kolumbus.fi> wrote in message
news:9gnnk3$64m$1...@news.kolumbus.fi...
Dominic Grosleau
>
humm.... speaking bout the Beatles i'd say? :)
chris.danx
> >
>
> humm.... speaking bout the Beatles i'd say? :)
Nah man, beatles 'r' crap ... Here'Say rule, nah wit a meen? :-)
CC
Dominic Grosleau
could teach me? :)
"chris.danx" <chris...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ByPX6.5511$Kj.6...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Alexei A. Frounze
news:ByPX6.5511$Kj.6...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > >
> >
> > humm.... speaking bout the Beatles i'd say? :)
>
> Nah man, beatles 'r' crap ... Here'Say rule, nah wit a meen? :-)
I disagree.
Beth
> anonymous wrote:
> > Maxim wrote:
> > >Really - I just admire you :-) brilliant girl! really!
> >
> > Once again, Bethie, you've woven your magic spell
> > and have created yet =another= devotee! ;)
>
> Are you an old Bethie's friend from alt.os.assembly?
"Old"?!?!??
What is this? Good cop, bad cop?
Fill me up with compliments to knock me down...
Beth :)
PS I know, I know...you mean it in a "-chen"/ "-lein" / "-ling" way and not
about my age...well, I _hope_ that's what you meant...lol ;)
Beth
> On 2001-06-15 dom...@videotron.ca said:
>
> >Since english is first the international business language today
> >and by far the most commonly used language in north america i think
> >our government should put some huge efforts in making up a good
> >second language (aka english) program.. thats just common sense....
> >isnt it ?
>
> But, you see, there's nothing sensical -- common or otherwise --
> about the Quebecois. They're playing the old emotion-based,
> political-correctness 'minority victim' game. And it sucks.
And what's so good about the "new unemotionally-based, politically-incorrect
'majority bully'" game?
Ok then, we should all start speaking Chinese...even combined, the rest of
us have a _major_ problem even coming close to their "majority"...if we're
going to do this, then let's do it right...we all adopt the "majority"
(Chinese) tomorrow and kiss our mother tongues goodbye...
> It might be a bit easier to take if they spoke =good= French.
> But they don't. That bastardized Frog-talk they speak can
> hardly be understood in any =real= French-speaking country. :)
Yeah...just like you Yanks speak such perfect Queen's English...*ahem* allow
me to re-phrase...
"It might be somewhat easier to take if they spoke English =well=. But they
seem incapable of this. The simplified speech they use can hardly be called
=real= English by any =real= English-speaking country...even the Aussies get
things more correct than them and those Aussies are proud and reknown for
crude abuse of the language (partly to piss us =real= English off...good on
'em, you can't help respecting someone who tries to annoy you
constantly...hehehe ;)..."
> The Quebecois need to come to terms with the fact that they live
> on an English-speaking continent...and then GET OVER IT! ;)
The Americans need to come to terms with the fact that they live on a
Chinese-speaking planet....and then GET OVER IT! ;)
Ummm..._North_ America, btw..._South_ America is a different story...and
let's see, the most populated city in the world? Well, lo and behold, it's
Mexico City...are we still playing the "majority" game, my unnamed friend?
:)
Beth :)
Beth
> Now, after being here a year, I think I'm quite a bit accustomed to
> American English so that British makes me smiling... :)
lol...it works both ways...I can't help but giggle when an American talks
about "fannies" and "pants" and ends up saying something that's totally
outragious here but would be an ok thing to say in front of the kids over
there...hehehe ;)
Hmmm...must buy some new pants that don't make my fanny look so big...hehehe
;)
Beth :)
Beth
> Well, I'm certainly not up on the latest rock music, but I've
> not heard of any of them. So are your good bands not
> singing in English or something?
>
> which was sung in German here (Australia). It was the German
> version that was popular, not the English version. The German
> version was very good.
Case in point of what I was saying in another post...to native
English-speakers, songs not sung in English sound "cool"...really...I think
there's an element of a foreign tongue being enigmatic and mysterious or
something...
Although, I would like to stress that you may not have heard of German music
but you've _certainly_ heard its influence...and I'm not just talking about
"ye olde" classical composers here (who can hardly be overlooked
;)...Kraftwerk basically created all modern forms of music...really, the
influence is _massive_ from those Teutonic popsters...
I saw this BBC documentary a while back called "Dancing in the Street"
(after the popular song of the same name :) and it was stunning how much
influence they had...I'd say comparable to the Beatles...it just wasn't
obvious...they interviewed hundreds of bands and artists and it was almost
like a mantra when asked what music influenced them...almost _all_ of them
said: "Kraftwerk were a big influence"...yup, I'm not just talking
synthy-pop or dance music here...guitarists were quoting them too...
And the first Hip-Hop tune (ironically called "Planet Rock" by Afrika
Bambataa :) was really just a bunch of guys rapping on top of Kraftwerk's
Trans European Express...the hard sparse beats come totally from Kraftwerk's
box (come on, if you know any music then the connection is actually obvious
when made...that's Kraftwerk's forte...hard sparse beats :)...
Mind you, it's funny how these things work...because Acid music was invented
in a New York gay club but the Europeans were the ones who took it totally
to their hearts...still can't make much impact on the US charts in any of
the guises its developed over time...it gets invented in one place and
adopted in another...it's almost inevitable, it happens so often...
"Maybe...perhaps...yes! Vielleicht....doch!!" ;)
Beth :)
Beth
> Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
> > Sorry, where is "th" in "news"? :-))))
>
> Where's the F in news? There's no f***ing news! (sorry, an English pun)
lol :)
I love malapropisms best...like saying "pheasant plucker" in a loop really
fast...or the same thing with "cunning stunt" (I still giggle at when a
friend was trying to compliment me when I showed him one of those cartwheel
things...he meant to tell me what a "cunning stunt" it was...what he
actually said had me worried that I'd forgotten to put on underwear before
doing the cartwheel ;)...
Watch you don't malaprop those in front of your grandmother...hehehe ;)
> > Grammar style is different. Russian uses flexible postfixes where
English
> > uses prepositions.
> >
> > For instance (English/Russian):
> >
> > "to Tim" - "Timu"
> > "of Tim" - "Tima"
> > "by Tim" - "Timom"
>
> Yes, I noticed similarities between what little Russian I know and what
> Greek I used to know. Those three are dative, genitive and ablative(?),
> aren't they?
>
> > Surely this feature makes English as a better language for computers
than
> > Russian.
>
> I'd probably find English easier to parse, because you've got fewer
> "keywords" and more "syntax".
Are you sure? I think there's an element of "what's familiar" to this...a
self-fulfilling prophecy...for instance, the only "programming language"
that bothers with prepositions or anything like them is COBOL...is it "mov
eax to ebx" or "mov eb from eax" in ASM? Nope...you have: "mov", "movsx",
"movzx", etc...do you type "copy readme.txt to c:\files"...nope, the
preposition is dropped...it's never used because it's awkward and,
basically, unnecessary...it also causes other problems...what if the
preposition is wrong but the rest is right ("copy readme.txt by c:\files")?
This scheme adds more possible combinations...how can that help?
Then, the old ending thing is a breeze to parse...start at the end of the
word and look for one of the usual patterns...it's even likely to be very
generalised...i.e. if it ends with a "u" it's dative, "a" it's genitive...a
bit like A and W for ANSI and UNICODE, eh? English poses problems because
the preposition thing isn't quite as clear cut...
Mind you, computers work almost exclusively in the imperative, anyway...no
tenses, no cases, no need for pronouns, etc....the point's a bit mute but if
there was a need for such things then are you totally sure that English is
the easiest? I say it's just different, is all...it's a bit of an
"endianness" argument, really...and if anything is fractionally better, it's
probably NOT English...
Beth :)
Beth
> having followed this discussion with interest since it began last week i
am
> beginning to think that here in quebec (a province somewhere in eastern
> canada) we are really off-track ... Our government is preaching that
french
> is the only viable language here in north america (aka we are only 7
> millions out of 400 millions americans and a few dozens millions mexican
> guys) !
How many times do we have to tell you guys about this? Size is not
important, it what you do with it that counts...hehehe ;)
> I've never understood that kinda policy from a government... i mean, as
Beth
> already said a few posts ago ;) , u gotta show some respect to people with
> different culture .. like if you're visiting u should try to learn and
> actually USE the language in use at that place and same thing if people
come
> over .. For the rest I believe there's a way to praise our native culture
> while not ignoring those of others..
Well, it's not only about being nice and polite and respectful...it's an
additional skill that, in a foreign country, could end up being not just
useful but crucial (medical emergencies, being able to negotiate things,
giving people warnings and getting them yourself...I remember when this guy
was pushing a big crate around and I was facing the other way and he was
going to crash into me with it (it was big so he couldn't see over it ;) and
then someone shouted: "Achtung!"...now, I knew what this meant but time was
critical to stop this big crate crashing into me...it took an extra second
for my brain to process what was happening than if someone had shouted:
"Watch out!" instead...I did get out of the way in time but only just...if
I'd not understood "Achtung!" at all then I'd probably have been ended up
flat on my face with a big heavy crate on top of me...really, it's not just
for others' benefits (which is reason enough :), it's also for your own
benefit..."knowledge is power", as they say :)...
> Since english is first the international business language today and by
far
> the most commonly used language in north america i think our government
> should put some huge efforts in making up a good second language (aka
> english) program.. thats just common sense.... isnt it ?
Yes and no; The French do have societies that actively try to keep English
out of French...this may seem xenophobic until you look at people like the
Irish or the Welsh...both had/have their own languages (Pre-latin in
part...they should be kept alive merely for linguistical history reasons
alone...ok, this is slightly confused by the union thingy in Britain, so it
wouldn't have quite the same effect on, say, France :) but English has
basically destroyed them almost totally...it is only the people who put up a
fight that retain their language...yes, this seems a bit melodramatic until
you look at the real things that has happened from total adoption of English
in certain countries, it isn't as unrealistic as it sounds...
Like when I was in Germany it actually was disappointing to watch the "News
Show" (I mean, the daily prime news programme was named in English??!? ) and
work with "a computer" rather than "ein Rechner"...it was subtle(-ish) but
English had slipped its way into so much...and then looking at
www.engrish.com , where there's all these bad examples of English on
Japanese products (I mean, why is there _any_ English on Japanese products
at all? There's no need...they have a perfectly good (and interesting)
language of their own...I think this is a bigger point than English getting
into French and German because it's not just loaning a word here and there,
it's adopting a completely different alphabet, grammar system, Latin
influence, (mentality to an extent), etc...that's major league intrusion
:)...
As I said before, it's different with English because it's a bastardised
language...it exists totally from "borrowing" words from elsewhere...it has
nothing to protect...no-one thinks twice saying "Zeitgeist" or "Poltergeist"
or "Gesundheit" or anything here...it's not unusual...it poses no
threat...the language is just evolving...BUT, with other languages, this is
not the same...English is a bit more than an international standard...it's
often perceived as "cool" and "modern" or something...this is dangerous, to
an extent...because for mere superficiality of pretending to be as "cool" as
people in LA or whatever (movies are to blame, yes? :) then entire languages
and cultures can be wiped clean...really, this sounds very melodramatic, I
know, but it _has_ happened (Scots Gaelic, anyone? :) and is still happening
(cross-reference: Welsh, Irish Gaelic :) and looks like it won't stop
there...
I'm not saying not to use English or anything...after all, that would be
good for me as I'm an "expert" in that (though some would disagree...hehehe
;) and get an unfair advantage over others (I mean, most programming docs
and languages are English or English-based...I can swallow the odd confusing
sentence that to a non-native English-speaker needs a few re-reads...and
words like "aggregation" don't get in my way but could really confuse
someone as to what exactly is going on...words do also carry attitudes and
subtle things to them, which I can pick up but the "Sprachesgefühl" is
missing for other people and this could be a big obstacle to someone who's
more than capable in programming or whatever, it's just their English that's
causing uneeded problems)...
Basically, I'm just saying to be careful of bandwagons...fashions
pass...losing an entire language and culture for "being cool" and having one
or two less communication problems...is it really worth it in the long run?
Fudge it...let's all speak Esparanto instead...hehehe ;)
Beth :)
Beth
> The Swedes even produce most/a lot/whatever of their rock
> music in English. Which means they reach a FAR greater
> audience than they would otherwise reach.
Yes...which is a shame...the thing that _really_ had me disappointed was the
French breaking their tradition in the Eurovision Song contest and singing
in English...I had so much respect for them singing in French and - to an
English-speaker - French sounds way more romantic and interesting...really,
half these songs sound better when you have no idea what the lyrics are
about...maybe English lyrics sound "clever" or "cool" to other people ("The
Shock of the New", to borrow a concept from Pop Art ;) but they just sound
so dumb and boring when English is your mother tongue...
Mind you, the Cardigans are Swedish, aren't they? Oh, and I love singing
along to that "favourite game" song...so, maybe there some plus sides to
this...hehehehe ;)
> What I'd like to see them do is extend this concept and
> produce 10%/5%/1%/whatever of their MOVIES in English
> too, and similarly get that wider audience.
Hasn't Hollywood extended its reach far enough? Don't get me wrong
here...there's nothing wrong with that...but I like the variety and not be
obligated to watch the badly-shaven cop anti-hero shoot the bad guy (who
doesn't die first time but suddenly jumps into shot - with a big ochestra
hit sound to make you jump - just when you thought he was dead...wow! what a
big suprise that was! :) and eventually get the girl (who, of course,
thought he was crap at the start of the movie) and wins the approval of his
boss (who spends the entire film shouting at him for his "renegade
tactics" - why he just doesn't fire our rebellious anti-hero, goodness
knows - and, crucially, tells him: "You're too emotionally attached to this
case...let this non-speaking bit actor handle the case from now on...I
FORBID you from handling this case"...oh, the boss is also black for no
particular reason but to not make the same "all white" mistake that Lucas
made with Star Wars...btw, that's how James Earl Jones landed Darth Vader's
voice...in post-production, someone spotted the lack of black characters in
the film and they paniced and got Mr. Jones to do the part so as not to have
riots occur...while we're on the subject, our anti-hero's partner will also
be black and will get shot by the bad guy...this gives a semi-important role
to a black person (just to be politically correct) and gives our anti-hero a
reason to "make this personal" and "avenge my dead
partner"...blah-dee-blah-blah...seen one, seen 'em all :)...
And, yes, all Indian films have bold voicebox-enhanced studs bangra dancing
everywhere, with a troop of screechy women providing the swooning and
backing vocals...and, yes, every French film features an insane woman for no
particular reason...and, yes, every Chinese film will have a young girl that
pretends to be a man and that subtle "lesbian" thing going on, as they fight
to win the princess's hand with ludicrous martial arts all done on
wires...and all British films are "working-class" and delibrately gritty and
"ugly"...it's not the cliches that's the problem...it's only having one...it
does your head in too quickly...if you mix and match, it can almost seem
"new" sometimes...
After all, the Matrix almost seemed like it had fresh ideas with all that
"hanging by wires" fighting...that is, until you watch any proper Chinese
martial arts film...and the weird binary stuff looks cool until you realise
it was totally lifted from "Ghost in the Shell"...it basically was your
average Chinese martial arts film but with a Hollywood budget and special
effects...hey, at least he wasn't a badly-shaven cop, that's a blessing, I
suppose...hehehe ;)
> It would be interesting as an experiment if nothing else!
Mengler also had similar "interesting experiments"...just kidding, just
kidding ;)
Beth :)
Beth
Agreed; I think the IPA alphabet should be employed for English spelling in
order to remove this crap and make it easier to speak...plus, you can even
write intonation with IPA too...which is useful for conveying the "I'm being
silly but pretending I'm serious" tone, which you probably can't read in the
post...hehehe ;)
Beth :)
Beth
> Beth wrote:
> > Sorry, my fault for bringing it up...although, it was only a small joke
> > and I certainly wasn't expecting a long reply about it...hehehe :)
>
> Yeah, I agree, it's completely and utterly Beth's fault. I would never
> ever ever ever ever post off-topic messages in a newsgroup if it
> weren't for her.
Aaah...so I have my uses then? lol ;)
Beth :)
Beth
> Tim Robinson wrote:
> > Ahhhh... <flash of inspiration>
> > I only read the bit Beth quoted. I didn't realise it was for her leg! :)
>
> *her*???
>
> LOL! :)
What about my legs??!? lol ;)
Beth :)
chris.danx
> > > >
> > >
> > > humm.... speaking bout the Beatles i'd say? :)
> >
> > Nah man, beatles 'r' crap ... Here'Say rule, nah wit a meen? :-)
>
> I disagree.
It was a joke, and a bad one at that.
Of course Beatles are better than Hear'say.
Chris
Alexei A. Frounze
news:VsYX6.5037$6q2.5...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Hmmm..... Haven't seen 'em. Send a pic :)
Alexei A. Frounze
...
> What is this? Good cop, bad cop?
Good cop -- dead cop.
Beth
> Don't forget about the Finns when it comes to music! You must have heard
of
> Darude, Kwan, Bomfunk MCs, Tik n' Tak, Aika, Manboy etc...
I know of Darude and Bomfunk...the rest don't seem to have made an impact in
the UK (well, I'm very into my music so it's usually fair to assume that if
I don't know it, then they haven't made themselves known yet :)...it's
sometimes surprising what bands are known where...for instance, the Manic
Street Preachers are a really big band in the UK (they played a gig for
Fidel Castro in Cuba (first western band allowed to do this :) because they
are unshamedly socialist and one of Castro's personal favourites...not many
bands can say that Castro called them "louder than war", eh? It's hard to
tell if that should be taken as a compliment or as an insult because of
who's saying it, isn't it? hehehe...anyway, regardless of politics, songs
like "A Design for Life" are just brilliant in my book :) but when I mention
them, some people know them well and some people have not the slightest clue
who they are...and it's not always logical...going back a bit, the Police
(you know, with that Sting fellow and the "every breath you take" song :)
had to make themselves known in the states before anyone paid any attention
back in the UK...and they were a UK band...and all the grungy indie British
guitar bands don't normally do well anywhere outside the UK...but, weirdly,
the Japanese absolutely love that stuff...more so than the Brits do...very
strange...but sort of cool :)
Beth :)
Beth
> Like I said. Sorry.
Actually, just wondering...what sort of stuff makes it big in Russia
normally? Because the western European countries are mostly into dance
music...France has a funky/weird edge to their stuff (very French
:)...Germany an hard/electronic one or (hard) rock (very German :)...Britain
can't seem to break its obsession with guitars (probably very British but
I'm not qualified to make comment...hehehe ;)...Sweden also seems quite
guitar-friendly too but more towards traditional rock 'n rock than the
depressing indie grunge stuff of the UK...
Over in the New World, the Yanks are into their "country" music (who's
country? lol ;), hip hop and the heavier end of rock...the sort of dance
tracks you get in Europe don't seem to make much impact on the
states...although, they liked the Prodigy but that's probably more to do
with the "punk" edge and Keith Flint's "wolverine" haircut than anything
else...then again, the charts move slower and are more stable than, say, the
UK charts because the states are just so much bigger and the common
occurance in the UK of a song jumping straight into number one and then
falling straight back out just doesn't happen so much...basically, it takes
too long for a band to make itself known all over the states with touring
and interviews and stuff for this to happen as easily as it does in the UK
(where you can tour the main cities for just a week, go on kid's saturday
morning TV and - hey presto - you're a big star with a number one record
;)...
Anyway, thinking about this, I realised that I don't know much about what
the situation is like in Russia...I mean, we weren't allowed to know while
the Cold War was on (both sides refusing their people any serious interest
in the "other side"...there was this feeling of a fixed "snapshot" of some
Red Army soldiers standing to attention in some snow outside the Kremlin
because there was no new information to see any trends or whatever was going
on the other side of the curtain)...yes, the curtain fell a while back but
you still don't get to hear much about what's happening and what the people
are into and stuff like that...you know, all the news stories are about the
economic and gangster problems and don't say much about the country
itself...the culture, that is...well, at least it's now possible to find
out, eh? As a German friend of mine (who was around in the second world war)
put it: "Frieden is gut."...it may be simple but it's so right (and he
certainly meant it and was around to know the difference between peace and
war, so I believe him when he says it...he's qualified to know what he's
talking about...he wasn't talking from some "hippy" theory...he's seen both
sides and choose "peace" and wasn't the slightest bit ashamed to let the
"young folk" - even the "ex-enemy" - know about it :)...
Thinking about it some more, I'm also somewhat clueless about the same sort
of things with South Africa because of the "blackout" due to Apartheid...I
suppose one could guess the stereotype of African rhythms but what else? Do
Aerosmith or Oasis go on tour there (I'd guess so, but maybe I'm wrong :)?
It's just never mentioned on the news or anywhere and thanks to the long
"blackouts" of the Cold War and Apartheid, I'm basically clueless as to what
to expect to find...
Anyway, just thinking aloud and maybe I could find something out about
this...because I love music and all the different types from all over the
world and wondered what was around...maybe there's a gem out there that I'd
love but haven't met yet, eh? :)
Beth :)
Beth
Missed a trick there, Chris...you should have put "Hear'say rule, pure and
simple" (that's the name of their single, you see..."pure and
simple"...well, I thought it was clever, anyway...oh, alright, it was a crap
joke...hehehe :)...
Beth :)
Beth
> chris.danx wrote:
> > > >When it comes to music, the Brits rule!
> > >
> > > humm.... speaking bout the Beatles i'd say? :)
> >
> > Nah man, beatles 'r' crap ... Here'Say rule, nah wit a meen? :-)
>
> I disagree.
As would most people, Alexei (including Chris himself, if I'm reading his
sarcasm properly ;)...hear'say are pants, if we're honest...yet another
example of the sex industry's "family-friendly" extension...you're not
supposed to buy the record for the music, really...you're supposed to buy it
for the free poster of one of the band members so you can fantasise about
them in your spare time...not that that's necessarily a bad thing, as long
as you realise it's not about music but about eyeing-up the band
members...unfortunately, there's nothing of major interest in Hear'say...lol
:)
Beth :)
chris.danx
> > > > >When it comes to music, the Brits rule!
> > > >
> > > > humm.... speaking bout the Beatles i'd say? :)
> > >
> > > Nah man, beatles 'r' crap ... Here'Say rule, nah wit a meen? :-)
> >
> > I disagree.
>
> As would most people, Alexei (including Chris himself, if I'm reading his
> sarcasm properly ;)...hear'say are pants, if we're honest
They're much worse than pants, just can't think of a suitable adjective at the
min.
> ...yet another example of the sex industry's "family-friendly"
extension...you're not
> supposed to buy the record for the music, really...you're supposed to buy it
> for the free poster of one of the band members
I wanted a poster of Faye from Steps, but couldn't find a single person poster,
they had all that little shit Ace on them (I could put up with the other guy but
it's a no no to Ace). Sorry I drifted away for second. (i don't like their
music, just Faye).
I was going to say apart from Faye from steps there ain't much in the way of
_talent_ out these days (and Steps have had it, Greatest hits = split). I don't
go for that flash your breasts and run your fingure up your thigh in front of
camera shit and i can honestly say i've never bought an album or single because
of it.
> so you can fantasise about them in your spare time...
? What's to fantasise about? It's all there in front of you.
> not that that's necessarily a bad thing, as long
> as you realise it's not about music but about eyeing-up the band
> members...unfortunately, there's nothing of major interest in Hear'say...lol
Claire Freeland (something like that) is going to do quite well, Claire's the
lassie they didn't accept because she was _too beefy_ for the band. Her music
is zillions of orders of magnitude better than hear'say (which isn't hard) and
if i undestand us men correctly (they don't like a bit of beef on a woman) so it
won't be her they're interested in it'll be her music.
That's a real crappy attitude to take and I really don't get it. Who cares if
Claires got a few more pounds of flesh than other lassies, it doesn't make her
ugly. Personally, I prefer a woman who's happy and that I can see when they
turn sideways.
Chris
chris.danx
> extension...you're not
> > supposed to buy the record for the music, really...you're supposed to buy it
> > for the free poster of one of the band members
>
> I wanted a poster of Faye from Steps, but couldn't find a single person
poster,
> they had all that little shit Ace on them (I could put up with the other guy
but
> it's a no no to Ace). Sorry I drifted away for second. (i don't like their
> music, just Faye).
Sorry, mistook that should be H not Ace.
PsychoWarden
Alexei A. Frounze
>
> Claire Freeland (something like that) is going to do quite well, Claire's
the
> lassie they didn't accept because she was _too beefy_ for the band. Her
music
> is zillions of orders of magnitude better than hear'say (which isn't hard)
and
> if i undestand us men correctly (they don't like a bit of beef on a woman)
so it
> won't be her they're interested in it'll be her music.
Aha! That's why Spears is more popular than ... what's the name of that
popular woman, who sang a song with Queen? completely forgot the name... :(
> That's a real crappy attitude to take and I really don't get it. Who
cares if
> Claires got a few more pounds of flesh than other lassies, it doesn't make
her
> ugly. Personally, I prefer a woman who's happy and that I can see when
they
> turn sideways.
:) Scared of skeletons?
Alexei A. Frounze
news:9gqvji$aj3p3$1...@ID-57378.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "chris.danx" <chris...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:KU3Y6.7596$Kj.11...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> >
> > Claire Freeland (something like that) is going to do quite well,
Claire's
> the
> > lassie they didn't accept because she was _too beefy_ for the band. Her
> music
> > is zillions of orders of magnitude better than hear'say (which isn't
hard)
> and
> > if i undestand us men correctly (they don't like a bit of beef on a
woman)
> so it
> > won't be her they're interested in it'll be her music.
>
> Aha! That's why Spears is more popular than ... what's the name of that
> popular woman, who sang a song with Queen? completely forgot the name...
:(
OK, B. Spears vs Montserrat Caballe :)