My Grandfather and Gypsies (Rom)

[David Edenden]

A frequent topic of conversation at family gatherings was my grandfather re-telling the story of how he suffered for the "Macedonian Cause". He was never a partisan during the Greek Civil War, but most of his relatives were and that was good enough for the Greek police to spend him to a prison island near Solon for a year. His younger brother (who also was never a partisan and never went to jail) in a display of sibling rivalry always insisted that my grandfather was imprisoned at the time the Greeks were arresting the women!

 

He started following hockey when he heard that there was a young Croatian playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs. His name was Frank Mahovolich. My grandfather had it on good authority, according to someone's brother-in-law's second cousin, that Frank had Macedonian friends and could even speak Macedonian. As part of my grandfather's "pan-slavic brotherhood and unity fantasy", he switched his allegiance from the Toronto Maple Leafs to Montreal Canadiennes when Frank was traded. This caused a great rift in the family who, although they loved Frank, thought it was treason to turn their back on the Maple Leafs.

 

My grandfather learned to read English by reading the stories about the Toronto Maple Leafs in the newspaper.

 

One day at his house, I saw an in-depth article in the paper about Gypsies in Skopje. This was in the 1980's. It said Gypsies had their own suburb, city councillors, a Member of Parliament, and I believe they could learn their Rom language for a few hours a week and I think a radio show in their own language. I can't remember the article very well but my grandfather's reaction, I can remember very well.

 

I was watching quietly, and impatiently, as he read and re-read the article making sure, I guess, that he understood the whole thing. When he finished he took off his glasses, and slightly trembling, he said in a quivering voice full of emotion:

 

"If Macedonians in Greece were treated the way that Gypsies are treated in the Republic of Macedonia, I would be happy".

 

 

[Dorian West]

"David Edenden" <david....@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:JGTXb.27105$iVf1...@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...

Macedonians in Greece are treated with respect and love, all 2.5 million of
them. What the fuck is your problem Mongolslav?????

[Jason K. Lambrou]

Dorian placed these questions for you Slavoskopins to answer:

12. If the Yugoslav-Makedonijans are the glorious Macedonians from antiquity
to the present, as they claim, why are they poorer than African nations like
Botswana?

13. If the Yugoslav-Makedonijans are the glorious Macedonians from antiquity
to the present, as they claim, why do Albanians armed with not much more
than pitchforks and hoes control the western part of the country? (The
Macedonian-Greeks, i.e. the real ones, have proven their valour in 1940-49
and beyond. It took 43 days for German, Austrian, Italian and Bulgarian
forces to subdue Greece when others like France fell in 14 days.).

14. In 1941 when Hitler's army entered the capital of Vardaska (later to be
renamed to Makedonija), Skopje, there were thousands of Bulgarian flags
there to greet them and the German army was welcome as liberators. King
Boris of Bulgaria was received in 1942 in Skopje as a liberator. Please
explain this?

[June R Harton]

"David Edenden" <david....@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:JGTXb.27105$iVf1...@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...

Complete and utter nonsense, Bulgar.

As far as the Greeks in the real Macedonia in say 1911, read the
following:

Encyclopedia Britania 1911
© 2002 by PageWise, Inc.

MACEDONIA

BIBLI0GRAPHY.&#8212;Jewitt and Hope, Corporation Plaic and Insignia of
Office,
&c. (2 vols., 1895); J. R. Garstin, Irish State and Civic Maces, &c.
(1898); J. Paton, Scottish Historyand Life (1902); J. H. Buck, Old
Plate
(1903), pp. 124&#8212;140; Cripps, Old English Plate (9th ed., 1906),
pp.
394&#8212;404; E. Alfred Jones, Old Plate at the Tower of London
(1908); ed., &#8220;
Some Historic Silver Maces,&#8221; Burlington Magazine (Dec. 1908).
(E. A. J.)
snip
In Salonica, Serres, Kavala, Castoria, and
other towns in southern Macedonia the Hellenic element is strong; in
the northern towns it is insignIficant, except at Melnik, which is
almost exclusively Greek. The Greek rural population extends from the
Thessalian frontier to Castoria and Verria (Beroea); it occupies the
whole Chalcidian peninsula and both banks of the lower Strymon from
Serres to the sea, and from Nigrita on the west to Pravishta on the
east; there are also numerous Greek villages in the Kavala district.
The Mahommedan Greeks, known as Valachides, occupy a
considerable tract in the upper Bistritza valley near Grevena and
Liapsista.

Also

The Slavs ....their great immigration took place in the 6th and
7th centuries. They overran .........driving ....the latinized population
of Macedonia into the highland districts, such as Pindus, Agrapha
and Olympus.

And, thus, the Latinized real Upper Macedonian Greeks are the
Greek Vlach then!

It should also be mentioned that yes indeed national leanings in that
time period was NOT solely determined by language. The false
Bulgarian numbers included Bulgarian speakers that were Moslem
who wanted nothing more than to stay Turkish, and included bi-lingual
Bulgarian speakers who adamantly fought against the Bulgarians
proclaiming their Hellenic identity, having had it previously subsumed
by the Bulgarian church in the area for many centuries on and off.
Also Bulgarian numbers in 'Macedonia' falsely did not count the
Greeks in real area of Southern Macedonia, as they invariable in
their scam only referred to the area that Russia had previously tried
to create into a Greater Bulgaria (in order to gain access to the
Aegean area).

For real numbers in the area read the following:

According to a Turkish census of Hilmi Pasha in 1904:

Greeks Bulgarians
Vilaeti of Thessaloniki 373,227 207,317
Vilaeti of Monastiri 261,283 178,412
Santzaki of Scopje 13,452 172,735

According to a Turkish census of Hilmi Pasha in 1906, in the area
of Macedonia lived:

423,000 or 41.71% Muslims (Turks and Albanians)
259,000 or 27.30% Greeks
178,000 or 18.81% Bulgarians
13,150 or 1.39% Serbs
73,000 or 7.72% others"

And figures presented by Italian ethnologist Amadori Virgili.

THESSALONIKI VILAYET 1913

Servia Sandjak

GREEKS 119,466
MOSLEMS 80,702
WALLACHIANS 1,460
JEWS 43
MISCELLANEOUS 3

Salonica Sandjak

GREEKS 233,508
BULGARIANS 70,096
MOSLEMS 189,600
WALLACHIANS 3,928
JEWS 65,730
MISCELLANEOUS 2,314

Serres Sandjak

GREEKS 96,513
BULGARIANS 98,586
MOSLEMS 122,303
WALLACHIANS 980
JEWS 3,005

Drama Sandjak

GREEKS 47,852
BULGARIANS 2,120
MOSLEMS 124,100

Total

GREEKS 497,339
BULGARIANS 170,802
MOSLEMS 516,705
WALLACHIANS 6,368
JEWS 68,778
MISCELLANEOUS 2,317

And real history of the area:

http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/1/0,5716,66071+1,00.html
For fair use only

ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA

Rumelia

Turkish RUMELI, the former Ottoman possessions in the Balkans. The name
means "land of the Romans"--i.e., Byzantines. The Turks first began to make
conquests in the Balkans in the mid-14th century. The land was divided into
fiefs of various size that were administered by cavalry officers; local
notables who converted to Islam also shared in the administration. The
administrative configuration of Rumelia changed frequently until 1864, when
the unit of administrative division became defined as the province, or
vilayet, which was in turn divided into sancak (subprovinces). The Danube
vilayet was formed first, in 1864, followed by those of Janina (Ioannina)
and Salonika (Thessaloníki, in Greece) in 1867. Under the Treaty of Berlin
(1878), the Danube vilayet formed the independent state of Bulgaria under
Ottoman suzerainty; southern Bulgaria formed the autonomous province of
Eastern Rumelia with its capital at Philippopoli (Plovdiv); and western
Rumelia was divided into the Edirne, Salonika, and Monastir ils (provinces).
In 1885 Bulgaria annexed Eastern Rumelia, and by the Treaty of Bucharest
(1913), Monastir was ceded to Serbia and Salonika to Greece; only Edirne
remained under Ottoman rule.
In the 15th and 16th centuries Rumelia functioned as a reservoir of the
devsirme (levy of Christian boys), who held the highest posts in the
Ottoman army and government. Rumelia was also a centre of Ottoman Islamic
culture, which flourished in the religious schools (medreses) and mosques in
Üsküb, Istip (Stip), Prizren, Pristina, Monastir, and Edirne. Islamic mystic
brotherhoods found large followings in Bulgaria, Albania,
and Bosnia-Herzegovina.

So you are speaking with forked-tongue, Bulgarian, when you ignore
the true situation of the time and pretend that the whole area was just
you Bulgarians. They were in the minority then in the real area of
Macedonia (northern Greece) AND ARE NOW JUST 4,951 VOTERS!
So, Bulgar, get another life as you will never suceed in your attempted
theft of Greek history and heritage or the Greek Macedonian name!

from: Spirit of Truth

(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!