Advent of Macedonian Language (Documents)
pavel
Enjoy the following:
"Stenografski beleshki
od konferentsiite na filoloshkata komisia za ustanovuenje na
makedonskata azbuka i makedonskiot literaturen jazik", Skopje
November 27th - December 3rd, 1944.
"Stenographic Memoirs from the Conferences of the Philological
Commission for Establishment of the Macedonian Alphabet and
Macedonian Literary language"
The advent of the so-called "Macedonian literary language" is
an unique in the European linguistic reality, and had not
anything common with the normal springing up and development
of the languages in the continent. In contrast to all European
languages, the so-called "Macedonian literary language" is created from
a group of people: 1) on some date, not very far before; 2) in
some place; 3) with a decree.
On August 2nd, 1944, in the monastery St Prohor Pchinski, on
the first meeting of ASNOM (Anti-fascist Assembly for People
Liberation of Macedonia), a decree for "sluzhben" language, which
"vleguva vednaga vo sila" (immediately is applyed), was
announced. Some months later - again administratively - this
language is up-invented, and sanctioned with voting of 10 teachers,
one poet, and one politician - ASNOM representative, on the
conference in the Skopje gradski odbor (city hall) in the period
November 27th - December 3rd, 1944. (Attending: Risto Prodanov,
Risto Zografski, Dr Georche Shoptrajan, Dare Dzhambaz, Vasil
Iliev, Dr Mihail Petrushevski, Krume Toshev, Mirko Pavlov,
Gjorge Kiselinov, Blazho Koneski, Dr Milka Balvanlieva - all
teachers, Venko Markovski - a poet, Epaminonda Popandonov (from
ASNOM). - the names are written according the protocol from
November 27th, 1944. Stenographer: J. Kostevski.)
The documents of the stenographers protocols from the inventive
meetings, which took less than a week in the building of Skopski
odbor, can show the absurdity of the advent of this language, and
can give an explanation, why this language practically is not
spoken from anyone in the Republic of Macedonia, including from
its "creators". Here we have in mind especially the pronunciation
of the prominent codificator of Skopska norm, Bl. Koneski, author
of the many times issued "Gramatika na makedonskiot literaturen
jazik", Skopje, 1952, which is full with many deviations from the
created by him rules. We shall give, with a minimum commentary,
the typical moments of creating the "new language", which is on
the base of the south-western Bulgarian speeches in Macedonia.
Now enjoy the discussions:
1. Self-acknowledgement, that the decisions of the commission are not
scientific:
"It will be good, if we can reconcile the views, to find something
mild, it can be not scientific, but practical, and in moderation.
Kiril also had a hard time. (here St Constantine Cyril is in mind!)
Let we also try hardly, without hurry." - Krume Tosheski, p. 35.
2. Fast inventing of the language:
"We have not time to wait this language to be made. We are in fast need
to have a literary language, and have no time, and cannot wait this
language to be made from poets, bookmen and journalists. In France, as
a literary language, Paris dialect is taken, in Russia - Moscow
dialect, in Serbia - Hertsegovina dialect. From these dialects, after
that, continuously a literary language has developed. But, as I have
said,
we have not time to wait some our dialect to be developed into literary
language." - Gjorge Kiselinov, p. 3.
3. The teachers of the new-created language will be also low-literate:
"Our teachers will be with fifth-sixth grade. Teaching with
low-qualified teachers will be very difficult." - Krume Tosheski, p.
34.
4. The artificial rules will be never acquired nor by pupils, nor by
the elderly people:
"Here, the word is for the paedagogics and for the pupils. But it is
all
the same also for the elderly people. These people will never learn the
rules." - Risto Prodanov, p. 30.
5. Falsifying the language history, in order falsifying the reality to
be acquitted - (here a long pseudo-study of Gjorge Kiselinov is
omitted. Grand-grand-childrens of Alexander of Macedon, etc.)
6. Acknowledgement, that the revivalists in Macedonia wrote by the
canons of Bulgarian language:
"Konstantin Miladinov called the dialect of his songs
struzhko-resenski.
But it is nor Struga dialect, nor Resen dialect. One of the main
characteristics of our Macedonian language is the stress. In our
language the stress is on the third syllable from the end of the word.
If we take his poem (of K. Miladinov) "T'ga za jug", it is
melodical only if it is pronunciated with Bulgarian stress. Here it is!
(Recite.) But if we recite it with the typical Macedonian stress, on
the third syllable from the end of the word, what we shall obtain?
(Recite.) You see, that there is not rhythm." - Venko Markovski, p. 15.
7. The commission is also engaged in futurology:
"In the not-near future, in the edge of the capitalism and the
imperialism, a common Slavic language will be developed, not only
common
Yugoslavian language. We do not know in which direction it will be
developed, but most probably this will be the Russian language, which
gave so much words to the Germans and the Americans in technics." -
Dare Dzhambaz, p. 40-41.
8. If the common Yugoslavian language will be not developed, than a
try with the Russian can be made:
"Our comrade said, that we must have in mind an aspiration towards a
common Yugoslavian language. ...<del>... But you can have in mind,
that a common Yugoslavian language is an illusion, and cannot be made.
Why? Because the Serbs and Bulgarians have their literature ...<del>...
If we want to create a common Yugoslavian language, than they ought
to refuse from their literature, and from their literary language, and
to accept the new one. But this will never happen. We, Macedonians,
which have not until now our literature, and our common literary
language, would not refuse from the ours, and the Serbs and the
Bulgarians would not surely refuse also. But if we cannot made a
common Yugoslavian language, than we can made a common Slavic
language, and it will be the Russian language, which can be imposed
with the space and the width of the Russian word." - Gjorgi
Kiselinov, p. 38.
Remark: All citations are taken from "Stenografski beleshki
od konferentsiite na filoloshkata komisia za ustanovuenje na
makedonskata azbuka i makedonskiot literaturen jazik", Skopje
November 27th - December 3rd, 1944.
Agamemnon
"pavel" <pavelma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137687441.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Advent of Macedonian Language (Documents)
>
> Enjoy the following:
>
> "Stenografski beleshki
> od konferentsiite na filoloshkata komisia za ustanovuenje na
> makedonskata azbuka i makedonskiot literaturen jazik", Skopje
> November 27th - December 3rd, 1944.
This is all Bulgarian.
The Macedonians language was a dialect of Greek.
Herodotus
[9.44.1] After Mardonius had put his question about the prophecies, and
spoken the above words of encouragement, night drew on apace, and on both
sides the watches were set. As soon then as there was silence throughout the
camp,- the night being now well advanced, and the men seeming to be in their
deepest sleep,- Alexander, the son of Amyntas, king and leader of the
Macedonians, rode up on horseback to the Athenian outposts, and desired to
speak with the generals. Hereupon, while the greater part continued on
guard, some of the watch ran to the chiefs, and told them, "There had come a
horseman from the Median camp who would not say a word, except that he
wished to speak with the generals, of whom he mentioned the names."
[9.45.1] They at once, hearing this, made haste to the outpost, where they
found Alexander, who addressed them as follows:- "Men of Athens, that which
I am about to say I trust to your honour; and I charge you to keep it secret
from all excepting Pausanias, if you would not bring me to destruction. Had
I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Greece, I should not have come
to tell you; but I am myself a Greek by descent, and I would not willingly
see Greece exchange freedom for slavery. Know then that Mardonius and his
army cannot obtain favourable omens; had it not been for this, they would
have fought with you long ago. Now, however, they have determined to let the
victims pass unheeded, and, as soon as day dawns, to engage in battle.
Mardonius, I imagine, is afraid that, if he delays, you will increase in
number. Make ready then to receive him. Should he however still defer the
combat, do you abide where you are; for his provisions will not hold out
many more days. If ye prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my
freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Greek cause, to
acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being
surprised by the barbarians. I am Alexander of Macedon." As soon as he had
said this, Alexander rode back to the camp, and returned to the station
assigned him.
[1.56.1] Of all the answers that had reached him, this pleased him far the
best, for it seemed incredible that a mule should ever come to be king of
the Medes, and so he concluded that the sovereignty would never depart from
himself or his seed after him. Afterwards he turned his thoughts to the
alliance which he had been recommended to contract, and sought to ascertain
by inquiry which was the most powerful of the Grecian states. His inquiries
pointed out to him two states as pre-eminent above the rest. These were the
Lacedaemonians and the Athenians, the former of Doric, the latter of Ionic
blood. And indeed these two nations had held from very, early times the most
distinguished place in Greece, the being a Pelasgic, the other a Hellenic
people, and the one having never quitted its original seats, while the other
had been excessively migratory; for during the reign of Deucalion, Phthiotis
was the country in which the Hellenes dwelt, but under Dorus, the son of
Hellen, they moved to the tract at the base of Ossa and Olympus, which is
called Histiaeotis; forced to retire from that region by the Cadmeians, they
settled, under the name of Macedni, in the chain of Pindus. Hence they once
more removed and came to Dryopis; and from Dryopis having entered the
Peloponnese in this way, they became known as Dorians.
[1.57.1] What the language of the Pelasgi was I cannot say with any
certainty. If, however, we may form a conjecture from the tongue spoken by
the Pelasgi of the present day- those, for instance, who live at Creston
above the Tyrrhenians, who formerly dwelt in the district named
Thessaliotis, and were neighbours of the people now called the Dorians- or
those again who founded Placia and Scylace upon the Hellespont, who had
previously dwelt for some time with the Athenians- or those, in short, of
any other of the cities which have dropped the name but are in fact
Pelasgian; if, I say, we are to form a conjecture from any of these, we must
pronounce that the Pelasgi spoke a barbarous language. If this were really
so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who
were certainly Pelasgi, must have changed their language at the same time
that they passed into the Hellenic body; for it is a certain fact that the
people of Creston speak a language unlike any of their neighbours, and the
same is true of the Placianians, while the language spoken by these two
people is the same; which shows that they both retain the idiom which they
brought with them into the countries where they are now settled.
[1.58.1] The Hellenic race has never, since its first origin, changed its
speech. This at least seems evident to me. It was a branch of the Pelasgic,
which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and
of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of
nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes
of barbarians. The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian
race which never greatly multiplied.
King Seanie, Ruler of the Griks
Agamemnon wrote:
> "pavel" <pavelma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1137687441.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Advent of Macedonian Language (Documents)
> >
> > Enjoy the following:
> >
> > "Stenografski beleshki
> > od konferentsiite na filoloshkata komisia za ustanovuenje na
> > makedonskata azbuka i makedonskiot literaturen jazik", Skopje
> > November 27th - December 3rd, 1944.
>
> This is all Bulgarian.
>
Put the drugs away and run down to Inspiwation FM on sheep street for
your radio debacle bwoy
http://icecast.commedia.org.uk:8000/inspiration.mp3.m3u
Mawwio is waiting with that idiot gweek newsweading biwd
*LMFAOAY*
Kentsam
Zhivko Apostolovski
"Agamemnon" <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:7amdnb0n9fy...@pipex.net...
>
> "pavel" <pavelma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1137687441.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Advent of Macedonian Language (Documents)
>>
>> Enjoy the following:
>>
>> "Stenografski beleshki
>> od konferentsiite na filoloshkata komisia za ustanovuenje na
>> makedonskata azbuka i makedonskiot literaturen jazik", Skopje
>> November 27th - December 3rd, 1944.
>
> This is all Bulgarian.
>
> The Macedonians language was a dialect of Greek.
Spoken like the true ignorant little cypriot turk, which you are.
And the pigs have been fed and are happily flying above Athens :-)
Zhivko Apostolovski
"pavel" <pavelma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137687441.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Enjoy the following:
>
> "Stenografski beleshki
> od konferentsiite na filoloshkata komisia za ustanovuenje na
> makedonskata azbuka i makedonskiot literaturen jazik", Skopje
> November 27th - December 3rd, 1944.
>
> "Stenographic Memoirs from the Conferences of the Philological
> Commission for Establishment of the Macedonian Alphabet and
> Macedonian Literary language"
>
> The advent of the so-called "Macedonian literary language" is
> an unique in the European linguistic reality, and had not
> anything common with the normal springing up and development
> of the languages in the continent. In contrast to all European
> languages, the so-called "Macedonian literary language" is created from
>
> a group of people: 1) on some date, not very far before; 2) in
> some place; 3) with a decree.
And how was the language of the eastern MACEDONIAN dialects, nowadays named
as "Bulgarian" language, created , moron?
How many people participated in its "creation" (read codification), Pavel
"B'lgarski"?
Isn't it true that all modern languages have been "created" (codified) by a
select few people?
When are you going to answer my questions (in my replies to your latest anti
macedonian postings) regarding your ethnic affiliation with the Bulgars?
pavel
>And how was the language of the eastern MACEDONIAN dialects, nowadays named
>as "Bulgarian" language, created , moron?
>How many people participated in its "creation" (read codification), Pavel
>"B'lgarski"?
>Isn't it true that all modern languages have been "created" (codified) by a
>select few people?
>When are you going to answer my questions (in my replies to your latest anti
>macedonian postings) regarding your ethnic affiliation with the Bulgars?
Zhivko,
I have replied to you and have sent a carbon copy to your E-mail also.
The modern Bulgarian, modern Serbian, modern Greek were created in
duration of centuries by the contribution of many writers, poets,
scientists. The main base for them is the rich literature.
June R Harton
"Zhivko Apostolovski" <zhi...@23895bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:dqp7cb$eoo$1...@news-02.connect.com.au...
Simple, Bulgar, see below:
Folks, you only have to look here to see that the Fyrom Slavic
majority are simply West Bulgarians and have no connection
to 'Macedonia' anything:
In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:
"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."
And here:
Reference source for Gotse Delchev's numerous utterings of 'We are
Bulgarians'......
http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macmodnat2.html
Even Gotse Delchev, the famous Macedonian revolutionary leader, whose nom de
guerre was Ahil (Achilles), refers to "the Slavs of Macedonia as
'Bulgarians' in an offhanded manner without seeming to indicate that such a
designation was a point of contention" (Perry 1988:23).
In his correspondence Gotse Delchev often states clearly and simply, "We are
Bulgarians" (MacDermott 1978:192,273).
And here:
For fair use only.
http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...
...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.
... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...
Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.
The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"
Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV
This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola,
and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "
And here:
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm
http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm
And finally here
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm
http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3?nid=199&name=ochrid
from: Spirit of Truth
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
June R Harton
> > The Macedonians language was a dialect of Greek.
> Spoken like the true ignorant little cypriot turk, which you are.
Why try to deceive people, Bulgar?
King Seanie, Ruler of the Griks
June R Harton wrote:
> "Zhivko Apostolovski" <zhi...@23895bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
> news:dqp6a3$d76$1...@news-02.connect.com.au...
> > > The Macedonians language was a dialect of Greek.
> > Spoken like the true ignorant little cypriot turk, which you are.
>
> Why try to deceive people, Bulgar?
>
>
>
> (using June's ouzo to bullshit you)!
LIAR LIAR !
JUNE R HARTON
PAUL R HARTON Background Report
52
58 10/28/1952
- 4411 LOS FELIZ BLVD #APT 504
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
JUNE R HARTON Background Report
52 10/28/1952 4411 LOS FELIZ BL BIGLEROCK BLVD
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
Turkminator
A: They think someone is taking their picture.
King Seanie, Ruler of the Griks wrote: