SWIFT BOAT LIES OR TRUTH?
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
It is easy to prove who is lying, the 65 officers and men of the
Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations) or the
so-called "Veteran" spokesperson for John Kerry. The spokesperson
that is speaking for Mr. Kerry admits (1) he never rode on a
Swift Boat in his life, and (2) never served with John Kerry,
ever, under any circumstances. So why is Mr. Hurley (Mr. Hurley
is the Veteran spokesperson for John Kerry) speaking for John
Kerry instead of at least one of his "band of brothers?" Mr.
Hurley often claims Kerry's crew "will confirm everything he and
John Kerry are claiming." So why is Mr. Kerry afraid to allow his
crew to speak publicly? Mr. Hurley, who did not even serve in the
same service as John Kerry, is quick to claim all of Kerry's crew
members will verify everything he is saying, but frankly I doubt
it.
I believe I know the reason why John Kerry does not want his crew
members to speak publicly. Part of Mr. Kerry's crew were already
interviewed previously by Mr. Brinkly when Brinkly completed his
biographical book on John Kerry, and during those interviews,
many of John Kerry's crew had something quite different to say
about John Kerry and those "missions" that earned Kerry all those
"medals." Ergo, Kerry is keeping his "band of brothers" as far
away from the camera as possible. Moreover, what promises has
John Kerry made to his "band of brothers" to get them to change
or modify their stories? We know they are traveling with the
Democratic candidate, and they are enjoying lavish hotels, meals,
and other "perks." But what else has Kerry offered them to
"change or modify their story" from previous accounts? It appears
that John Kerry does not want that question to be asked of his
"band of brothers" so he is hiding them from the press and
sending out Mr. Hurley, who can do no real damage because he
admits he never served with Kerry, to run interference with the
Press in respect to this hot issue.
I should also mention the Swift Boat members represent John Kerry
's entire chain of command when he was in Vietnam. Moreover, the
Swift Boat members have not been promised anything by anyone to
tell the truth, and further, Mr. O'Neil has said all proceeds
from his book "Unfit to Command" will be donated to charity.
Mr. Kerry's spokesperson, Mr. Hurley, constantly refers to Navy
documents that seem to substantiate John Kerry's version of Kerry
's Vietnam missions in question. But Hurley's reference to those
documents is clearly a deceptive and false reference. All of the
Navy documents Mr. Hurley is referencing are based completely on
the Spot or Incident reports that were initially filed after each
mission. Now guess who wrote up the accounts of those missions
and wrote them in a manner they would make him look like a hero?
Yep, you guessed it, ol Hanoi John Kerry himself. Also, guess
which documents' John Kerry is refusing to release (along with
several fitness reports that are not very complementary)? John
Kerry is refusing to release the Spot or Incident reports that he
authored and that he filed with a higher command so
surreptitiously that his fellow officers never saw them. The
public has a right to see those spot or incident reports you
authored Mr. Kerry. Please release them.
John Kerry took an 8mm Camera with him to Vietnam, and he
constantly reenacted missions on film that were distortions of
the real missions. That we know is a fact based upon statements
from his fellow officers. (One of those reenactments was shown at
the Democratic Convention and was misrepresented as a real
account and not a Hollywood version. But when the Swift Boat
members started to talk about Kerry's film, then Kerry admitted
his "version" was akin to a Michael Moore production). So if Mr.
Kerry will distort the filming of reenactments of missions in
Vietnam, and he will lie to Congress about what American Veterans
did in Vietnam, and clearly Kerry lied about being in Cambodia
(Kerry conjured up that lie so as to embarrass the Nixon
administration with hype and lies, true to Kerry's style) - so
considering all of the lies and distortions we have already
caught John Kerry trying to sell to the American people, can we
also believe that John Kerry would sink so low as to distort and
lie on Spot or Incident reports to gain medals that he clearly
did not deserve?
The Spot or Incident reports that gained Kerry his medals need to
be released and reviewed by the American public. If Kerry wrote
up his own reports in such a manner to gain him medals he did not
deserve, then Kerry should be forced to return those medals and
apologize to the American people for using deceit and deception
to gain Military awards he clearly did not merit.
The following is an account of John Kerry's Vietnam missions
based upon what some of Kerry's crew told Mr. David Brinkly years
back when Mr. Brinkly was preparing his Biography on John Kerry,
and what some of Kerry's Swift Boat comrades have said, and what
John Kerry said himself on record before he became a candidate
for the Presidency of the United States. (See Kerry's own account
at the end of this article. It contradicts what Kerry is saying
now).
JOHN KERRY'S MURDERS AND MEDALS
(C) Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
During a patrol in the Mekong Delta in 1969 Kerry's crew caught
sight of a Vietnamese Sampan. So without checking the Sampan, who
was on board, or even if the Sampans were Viet Cong or just
civilian fishing boats, Kerry gave the signal for his crew to
open fire on the defenseless fishermen. Kerry later described the
fishermen as "running away like gazelles." - which is
understandable considering the amount of machine gun and M16
rifle fire that was directed toward them coming from Kerry's
boat. During this encounter, without a single shot fired at Kerry
or his boat, somehow, someway, Lt. Kerry suffered a very minor
scratch to his arm (probably from a self-inflicted wound as none
of his men saw him receive the wound, nor did he even announce
the wound to his crew when he claimed he received it). Yet after
Kerry returned from the mission, he immediately demanded a
"Purple Heart"medal for that tiny scratch, and for some
mysterious reason and contrary to Navy regulations, his request
for that medal was granted.
The above is a true account of Lt. Kerry's first Purple Heart
medal -a scratch on the arm not even caused by hostile fire,
directly nor indirectly, and not treated by any medical
personnel. Note also the Purple Heart medal regulations at the
time required any wound to be "treated by medical personnel"
before it could even qualify for the Purple Heart medal. The fact
the Navy Doctor that "looked at"( looking at is not "treating")
Kerry's tiny scratch on his arm (which did not come from hostile
fire and probably was self-inflicted) has come forward on his on
volition and stated for the record that he did not "treat Kerry's
wound" and he further said it did not require any treatment it
was such a minor scratch. So how did Kerry manage to wrangle his
Purple Heart medal for a tiny scratch that was not caused by any
hostile fire nor required treatment by medical personnel? Shouldn
't Kerry be required to give that Purple Heart medal back? Or, is
Hanoi Kerry "still" above the law today like he was then -
considering his privileged rich life, and all of his proper prep
schools and him being close friends with the politically elite?
John Kerry had unmeasured political influence when he entered the
Navy, (the Kennedys) and it seems that his political influence
was at work during his four total months of service on the swift
boats in Vietnam. Purple Hearts are supposed to be awarded for
wounds suffered in Combat, not for firing on innocent fishermen
nor purposefully scratching your arm in the process. All of Kerry
's life he has gotten away with deception and duplicitous
positions on political matters, such as when he graduated from
Yale he presented a condemning and scathing speech against the
U.S. Military and our war in Vietnam - but then after graduation
he went out and joined the Navy! Why? What was Kerry up to?
I spent 15 months in Vietnam and 12 months in Korea. If I had put
in for a Purple Heart for every jungle scratch I received, or had
any of my men, we would have been laughed at and scorned by our
fellow soldiers. Not to mention been denied those medals for
scratches that (1) were not as a result of combat and (2) did not
even require medical attention nor even a band-aid nor even an
aspirin. But for some strange reason, Kerry received his first
medal for scratches that most soldiers in Vietnam suffered almost
on a daily basis.
To add even more mystery to Kerry's shameless pandering for
medals, Kerry's immediate commander at the time, Mr. Grant
Hibbard, has come forward on his own volition and confirmed on
national television that: (1) During the encounter in question
Kerry nor his boat ever took any enemy fire. (2) Kerry had a tiny
scratch on his arm that did not require medical attention. (3)
He, (Commander Hibbard) did not authorize, nor recommend Kerry's
purple heart medal. (4) There was no way Kerry could receive a
Purple Heart medal for that encounter without his immediate
commander's recommendation. (End of paraphrase of Commander
Hibbard's statements on Cable news).
To add to this obvious deception by Kerry, the Naval doctor that
looked at Kerry's "wound" said that Kerry's "wound" was nothing
more than a tiny scratch caused by a tiny splinter of metal that
did not occur from hostile fire, and that scratch at worst would
require a tiny band-aid, and that he did not recommend any
treatment for the scratch as these scratches are incurred by all
soldiers almost on a daily basis in the jungles of Vietnam.
The testimony from Kerry's commanding officer, and the Navy
Doctor, prove the only way Hanoi John Kerry could have received a
Purple Heart for a tiny scratch on his arm that was not received
in combat or by hostile fire, and that was not recommended nor
approved by his commanding officer was to either (1) forge an
incident report (2) produce and sign incident reports as the
commander of the boat that would falsely authorize him to receive
such a medal, or (3) go over his immediate commander's head and
use political influence to gain a medal he clearly did not
deserve.
Moreover, the primary reason I believe Kerry's tiny scratch was
"self-inflicted" is at the time of the alleged wound Kerry did
not tell anyone about it! Although he said it was "pitch black"
and he received a "stinging wound" in his arm (which is
impossible because no one was shooting at him) he still did not
call for a Corpsman, nor did Kerry mention the wound to any
members of his crew at the time he allegedly received the wound.
All of the soldiers I know would have at least wanted to know how
badly they were hit if they were hit in combat. Wouldn't you want
to know whether you should tie the wound off or otherwise treat
it before you bleed to death? Yet Kerry not only failed to even
mention his alleged wound at the time he allegedly received it,
none of his crew witnessed him receiving any would, and
amazingly, Kerry did not even bother checking his "wound" ever
until the mission was completely over and he had returned to his
base camp. Kerry's wound, to me at least, is a classic example of
a "self-inflicted wound." I should also add that at the time of
Kerry's alleged wound, he was not even located in a metal boat
and his boat was not drawing any fire - so where did the tiny
sliver of metal come from - Kerry's pocket probably?
Note also that Kerry is willing to release the General orders
awarding him his Purple Heart medal, but he mysteriously refuses
to release the incident report or the application forms that were
relied upon by the Navy that somehow gained him a medal that he
clearly did not deserve! We need to see that application for the
Purple Heart to determine how Kerry received this prestigious
award when he clearly did not deserve it. Did Kerry forge, shred
or alter documents and lie as early as 1969 like he did when he
returned from Vietnam? The American people have a right to see
who signed the incident reports and application for the Purple
Hearts and other medals Kerry supposedly received, all under
extremely questionable and bizarre circumstances. (See below).
In Kerry's so-called "second encounter with the enemy" Lt. Kerry
spots yet another two unarmed Sampans, and Kerry ordered his boat
to follow these unarmed Sampans into a small fishing village.
Kerry later claimed that his boat "took some sniper fire" from
the Village, but his boat was not hit, nor do any members of
Kerry's crew remember receiving that mysterious sniper fire, and
of course the village later turned out to be a friendly village
which housed several of our allies - members of the South
Vietnamese Army. Regardless, according to Kerry, he ordered his
machine gunner, Mr. James Wasser, to open fire on the Sampans and
the village. Yet Wasser told Brinkly that the only "enemy" that
Kerry ordered him to fire upon was "an old man leading a water
buffalo."
"I am haunted by that old man's face," said Mr. Wasser. "He was
just doing his daily farming, hurting nobody, yet he got hit in
the chest with a M60 machine gun." As it turns out Lt. Kerry had
ordered his boat to fire on a "friendly" village which also
contained a garrison of ARVN soldiers, (our allies) two of which
were wounded from Kerry's recklessness and wanton aggression on a
peaceful fishing village. The dead villager's and the wounded
South Vietnamese soldiers were outraged and their families filed
complaints with the Americans . . . yet mysteriously Lt. Kerry
escaped all punishment. If any other G.I. had wantonly murdered
villagers or fired on our allies and created causalities amongst
our allies, I wonder what would have happened to him? Lt. Cally
from My Lai fame comes to mind. There is little difference
between Lt. Kerry's actions in respect to firing on friendly
villages and Lt. Cally's actions at My Lai. Yet Lt. Cally was
court-martialed and Lt. Kerry received a medal! Someone very high
up in politics was clearly watching over Lt. Kerry.
The world remembers the My Lai massacre in which two U.S. Army
officers were court-martialed for ordering or not preventing
their men to kill civilians. Why was Lt. Kerry's massacre of
innocent fishermen and our own allies covered up - not once but
twice? Especially when we have an first hand account of an
obvious wanton murder by Kerry, as told and witnessed by one of
his own men! As far as I know there is no statute of limitations
for murder - and this issue must be resolved prior to Hanoi John
Kerry running for our highest office. The American people simply
cannot elect a wanton murderer to the Presidency of the United
States. Such a travesty of justice would go down in our history
as our biggest mistake, and we would become reviled and hated by
the rest of the honorable world. Un prosecuted murderers simply
should not have any place in our Government, not to mention
becoming the commander in chief of our military!
It is clear that John Kerry knew that to be successful in
politics he first had to become a "War Hero." Kerry was desperate
for notoriety, and he was using the Vietnam war and his political
connections back in the States to achieve that notoriety. It also
appears that was his ambition and reason for going to Vietnam in
the first place. (Remember that Kerry had delivered a scathing
fulmination speech against the U.S. Military and the Vietnam war
when he graduated from Yale - then after that speech he went out
and immediately joined the Navy!) Kerry clearly had a hidden
agenda when he joined the Navy, and Hanoi Kerry seized every
opportunity during his Vietnam service to demand a medal,
regardless of how trivial the circumstances were, or how
undeserving he was to receive such an award.
As a further case in point in respect to Hanoi John Kerry's lack
of scruples, on Feb 28, 1969, Kerry claims his boat was fired
upon by a rocket-propelled grenade from shore. The grenade missed
the boat. And since Kerry was the commander of the boat, he was
able to write up his own "incident reports" about the "encounter"
with the enemy. (Kerry is also refusing to release this incident
report as well as all others that involve his "medals').
Consequently, Kerry wrote up the account in such a manner as to
make him appear as a hero. According to Kerry's incident
report-based citation, Kerry beached his boat and ordered a
charge on an enemy position and killed a VC standing a few feet
from him with a B-40 rocket launcher. Yet according to all other
accounts of his crew, the rocket launcher was an empty weapon, or
so said two of Kerry's crew members, Messrs. Mike Medeiros and
Tommy Belodeau. In 1996, Kerry's machine-gunner Mr. Tommy
Belodeau described the full incident to the Boston Globe's David
Conflictsh:
Mr. Belodeau said that he fired on the single VC with his M60
machine gun at a range of only ten feet, and cut his legs out
from under him. The wounded VC then crawled behind a hut, and
then Kerry suddenly grabbed an M16 rifle, deserted his boat and
his command, and ran behind the hut to shoot the VC who according
to Mr. Belodeau, "was near death." Of course Kerry's account was
much different. According to Kerry's account the VC (wounded
several times in the legs with M60 machine gun rounds) amazingly
got up and ran off down a trail, and ran around a bend. When
Kerry finally caught up with the speedy VC (with no legs) the VC
was pointing his (empty) B-40 Grenade launcher at him and Kerry
shot the VC dead before he could fire.
For this encounter, Lt. Kerry was awarded the Silver Star . . .
for shooting a single wounded enemy in the back that by all real
accounts was already dead or should have been taken prisoner. It
is clear to me as a Vietnam Veteran that Hanoi John Kerry was
receiving some very special treatment during his tour of duty.
Most soldiers would have been court-martialed for shooting a
wounded prisoner, but Lt. Kerry received the Silver Star!
Even if Kerry's account is completely true since when does the
Navy award a Silver Star for shooting a single unarmed enemy! If
Kerry had shot a single armed enemy, I suspect he would have been
awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor! Can you imagine how
many soldiers in Vietnam, just during the Tet offensive, shot
enemy soldiers that were armed and shooting at them? Try
thousands - and did they all get the Silver Star for doing what
was basically their job to do? No, of course not. But Kerry
received the Silver Star for shooting a solitary, critically
wounded, VC that "was near death?" The political fix was
obviously alive and well in regards to Lt. John Kerry.
But Kerry's shame does continue; On March 13, 1969, Lt. Kerry
reached down off his boat and pulled another officer out the
water after the boat carrying the swimming officer had hit a
mine. For that amazing display of "valor" Lt. Kerry was awarded
the "Bronze Star" - if Bronze Stars were awarded to every Soldier
that pulled another out of a river or a rice paddy, everyone that
went to Vietnam would have received a Bronze Star!
However, the mine that hit the other boat did create a "water
wake" in the river that caused Lt. Kerry to bump his arm against
a bulkhead on his own boat, which produced a small bruise on his
arm . . . and yep, you guessed it, Lt. Kerry put in for yet
another "Purple Heart" for that bruise, and he got it! Now Lt.
Kerry has two "Purple Hearts," one "Silver Star" and one "Bronze
Star." His undeserved medal collection is growing by leaps and
bounds. But Kerry still was not through:
Kerry's boat had been on a mission ferrying Special Forces
personnel. Kerry spotted another village (which turned out to be
also friendly of course) and he inexplicably ordered his boat to
open fire on the village along with the Special Forces personnel
that were passengers on his boat. However, Kerry once again
mistook our allies, which were South Vietnamese soldiers, as the
enemy. The South Vietnamese troops were busy interrogating some
Women and Children from the friendly village, and after the first
barrage of fire Kerry had ordered at least ten of the Women and
Children were consequently killed. Then after Lt. Kerry had
ordered his boat to fire on the friendly village, Kerry, once
again, abandoned his boat (against specific orders not to do that
again) and ran into the friendly village shooting everything that
moved and throwing grenades into civilian hooches. When one of
the South Vietnamese soldiers (our allies) threw a grenade to
defend himself into a hut which was a storeroom for rice, some of
the rice grains and bits of metal hit Lt. Kerry in the buttocks
and leg. That meant Kerry had just earned his third "Purple
Heart." (I should also mention that none of the scratches Kerry
received which resulted in a "Purple Heart" medal ever cost Lt.
Kerry a single day of lost duty except the rice grains he
received in the ass while he was busy murdering civilians, and
that "wound" cost Kerry a total of two whole days of off duty).
Lt. Kerry then parlayed his three "Purple Hearts" into an early
return to the states as the then Navy regulations allowed for an
early return to the States for any sailor that was awarded three
or more Purple Hearts. All in all, Lt. Kerry spent about four
months in Vietnam on the swift boats.
To sum up Lt. Kerry's Vietnam service, all one needs to do is
repeat what Assistant Secretary of Defense and Professor W. Scott
Thompson said Admiral Zumwalt told him about Lt. John Kerry: Mr.
Thompson said, "Adm. Elmo Zumwalt told me that young Kerry had
created great problems for him and the other top brass by killing
so many noncombatant civilians and going after other nonmilitary
targets, that 'We had to virtually straitjacket him (Kerry) to
keep him under control,' Admiral Zumwalt said.
Even General George S. Patton III (son of the famous WWII
General) said; "John Kerry has given aid and comfort to the
enemy." In referring what Lt. Kerry did during and after the
Vietnam war.
In summary, John Kerry received his first Purple Heart for a
scratch that was not even caused by any type of enemy fire, and
was probably caused by a self-inflicted wound. He received his
second Purple Heart due to a wave in the river rocking his boat
and bumping his arm slightly against a bulkhead, thereby causing
a small bruise on his arm. He received his third Purple Heart for
getting hit in the ass from some flying rice grains when he was
busy murdering defenseless civilians. Kerry received his "Silver
Star" for firing on a friendly village, killing old men farming
and walking water buffalos, wounding two allied soldiers, and
murdering a wounded Viet Cong soldier that should have been taken
prisoner. Kerry received a Bronze Star during an attack on yet
another friendly village, after wantonly helping to murder not
less than ten innocent women and children, and while racing
through the friendly village shooting and blowing up everything
in sight.
In conclusion it should be clear to all that Hanoi John Kerry is
not a "war hero" - a "war criminal" perhaps, but certainly not a
"war hero."
Then after Hanoi John Kerry returned to the USA from his four
months in Vietnam, he disgraced his medals by throwing them away
in the Capitol building pond, and told Congress that all Vietnam
Vets were "Rapists and Murderers." Kerry also lied to Congress
under oath, and fabricated stories from Veterans he named. Yet
when those so-called "Veterans" Kerry named were later
interviewed by the U.S. Navy and FBI, they claimed they never
said anything near what Kerry claimed they said, and further,
many of the "Veteran's" Kerry named turned out not to be Veteran'
s at all but were in truth working for Hanoi Jane Fonda's and the
KGB's Coffee House organization that she and Kerry used to try
and persuade American service personnel to desert.
During this same period John Kerry denied attending a VVAW (a
Jane Fonda sponsored anti-American New Left group that Kerry
helped create) meeting in which the assassination of key
anti-Communist senators was discussed and planned. Kerry claimed
he had resigned from the VVAW long before that seditious meeting,
but when the FBI surveillance team placed Kerry squarely at the
meeting, suddenly, John Kerry said "I have no recollection of the
meeting, but I might have been there." Someone should tell ol
John Kerry that conspiring to murder U.S. Senators is not
something that is easy to forget. Kerry seems to suffer from
"selective amnesia" quite a bit. Can you imagine this unethical
loony tune with his finger on America's nuclear button? Hanoi
John Kerry has proved he is not only impulsive and reckless
during stressful situations, but also he is incapable to follow
even the most basic of instructions. And this clown is the best
choice the Democratic party could make for the position of our
Commander in Chief?
Since when does the American electorate elect an Un prosecuted
murderer to the Presidency of the United States? As a case in
point former president of Mexico Luis Echeverria was indicted on
July 23, 2004 for involvement in the murders of protesters that
were attacked by Mexican troops on June 10, 1971. If Mexico can
prosecute their leaders for murders and atrocities that were
commited 33 years ago, and they should, then why ares the United
States Federal Prosecutors ignoring all of the evidence that John
Kerry commited worse or at least equal murders during the same
period? If Kerry deceives enough people to get elected, will the
indictments for murder come later - against a sitting President
of the United States?
Please understand that my articles on John Kerry are not
politically motivated. I voted for Al Gore in the last
presidential election, and I believe the Democratic party could
have selected any number of candidates that would have been
acceptable to the American people. Yet picking John Kerry is not
only a tremendous blunder by the Democrats, it is a travesty of
justice. John Kerry should be indicted for murder, not chosen as
the best candidate for the U.S. Presidency the Democratic party
has to offer! Based upon my exhaustive research on Kerry
everything I have presented in this article I believe to be true.
I started and completed by research without malice, and I was
flabbergasted at what I found. I invite John Kerry or his
campaign to refute anything I have said in this article with any
documents that contradict the testimony of his Commanding
officer, the Navy Doctor, or the accounts of his own crew
members. I should also mention that John Kerry is using a
photograph of him along with several Vietnam veterans that was
taken during the Vietnam war in his campaign advertisements. The
connotation of Kerry's advertisement is that all those men in the
said photograph support Kerry - but when interviewed 85% of the
men in the photograph said they would vote for President Bush and
that Kerry is not capable to become our Commander in Chief! Also
since I first published this article, an organization of Swift
Boat commanders has come forward also claiming they do not
support John Kerry, as his performance on the Swift Boats
indicated to them Kerry was not stable enough to become the
Commander in Chief of our Military. Moreover, what I have
presented in this article reflects only on what John Kerry did
during his service in Vietnam. Although it is astonishing how
many crimes Kerry commited in Vietnam and how well he covered
them up by claiming medals he did not deserve, all that is but a
mere pittance in comparison to what John Kerry did to his country
and his fellow veterans after he returned from Vietnam. I will
present the outrageous transgressions Kerry committed against the
American people and his fellow veterans after he returned from
Vietnam in subsequent articles.
As an addendum to the above article, I have found Kerry's own
account of the events leading up to him receiving his first
Purple Heart medal. You will find by Kerry's own testimony he
validates many key points in the above article"
HANOI KERRY'S OWN PURPLE HEART ACCOUNT
Kerry:
"It was a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat, but
it was my first, and that made it very exciting," [Kerry said].
"Three of us, two enlisted men and myself, had stayed up all
night in a Boston Whaler [a foam-filled-fiberglass boat]
patrolling the shore off a Viet Cong-infested peninsula north of
Cam Ranh . . . Most of the night had been spent being scared
shitless by fisherman whom we would suddenly creep up on in the
darkness. Once, one of the sailors was so startled by two men who
surprised us as we came around a corner ten yards from the shore
that he actually pulled the trigger on his machine gun.
Fortunately for the two men, he had forgotten to switch off the
safety . . ."
Doug Says: It is clear that Kerry did not have control of his
men, and they were so frightened they were ready to shoot at
anything that moved, without first determining whether their
target was friend or foe. Kerry was some commander.
Kerry continues:
"As it turned out, the two men really were just a pair of
innocent fisherman who didn't know where one zone began and the
other ended. Their papers were perfectly in order, if their
night's fishing over. The fear was that they were VC. Allowing
them to continue might have compromised the mission. For the next
four hours Kerry's Boston Whaler, using paddles, brought
boatloads of fisherman they found in sampans, all operating in a
curfew zone, back to the Swift. It was tiring work. "We deposited
them with the Swift boat that remained out in the deep water to
give us cover," Kerry continued. "Then, very early in the
morning, around 2:00 or 3:00, while it was still dark, we
proceeded up the tiny inlet between the island and the peninsula
to the point designated as our objective. The jungle closed in on
us on both sides. It was scary as hell. You could hear yourself
breathing. We were almost touching the shore. Suddenly, through
the magnified moonlight of the infrared 'starlight scope,' I
watched, mesmerized, as a group of sampans glided in toward the
shore. We had been briefed that this was a favorite crossing area
for VC trafficking contraband."
With its motor turned off, Kerry paddled the Boston Whaler out of
the inlet into the beginning of the bay. Simultaneously the
Vietnamese pulled their sampans up onto the beach and began to
unload something; he couldn't tell what, so he decided to
illuminate the proceedings with a flare. The entire sky seemed to
explode into daylight. The men from the sampans bolted erect,
stiff with shock for only an instant before they sprang for cover
like a herd of panicked gazelles Kerry had once seen on TV's Wild
Kingdom. "We opened fire," he went on. "The light from the flares
started to fade, the air was full of explosions. My -16 jammed,
and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, a stinging
piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like
hell. By this time one of the sailors had started the engine and
we ran by the beach, strafing it. Then it was quiet.
"We stayed quiet and low because we did not want to illuminate
ourselves at that point," Kerry explained. "In the dead of night,
without any knowledge of what kind of force was there, we were
not all about to go crawling on the beach to get our asses shot
off. We were unprotected; we didn't have ammunition, we didn't
have cover, we just weren't prepared for that . . . So we first
shot the sampans so that they were destroyed and whatever was in
them was destroyed." Then their cover boat warned of a possible
VC ambush in the small channel they had to exit through, and
Kerry and company departed the area."
Doug Says: Kerry said that he fired a flare and only saw Sampans.
The owners of the Sampans did not have weapons, nor did they fire
at Kerry or at his men. Yet Kerry ordered his men to open fire on
the innocent fishermen without first determining whether they
were friend or foe. Since the fishermen never fired back, how did
Hanoi John Kerry receive his "stinging wound" from hostile fire?
Kerry said the men on the Sampans bolted for cover, and only his
men "opened fire." It is clear the "wound" Hanoi Kerry received
was most likely self-inflicted as the Navy doctor that looked at
the tiny scratch said it was caused by a tiny sliver of metal and
the wound did not warrant any medical treatment. Moreover, Kerry
was not in a metal boat at the time he claimed he received the
wound, nor did he receive any enemy fire, nor did any of this men
see Kerry receive any kind of a wound, and further, and what is
the most damning, Kerry never announced nor even mentioned that
he was hit to any of his crew, even by his own account above!
Moreover, Navy regulations require that any wound that qualifies
for a Purple Heart must (1) be severe enough to be treated by a
Doctor. Kerry's wound was not treated. And (2) that the immediate
commander of the wounded sailor recommend the recipient of the
wound be awarded the medal. Kerry's commander at the time, Mr.
Grant Hibbard, has come forward in Florida and said he never
authorized nor recommended Kerry for the purple heart medal for
the above action. Moreover, firing on fishing Sampans without
first determining whether they were friend or foe does warrant
some type of action by Kerry's commanding officer . . . usually a
court martial.
Murdering innocent civilians is a war crime. But instead of being
court-martialed for his crime, Kerry received a medal! How did he
receive that medal when everything he did was against Navy
regulations and he clearly did not deserve the Purple Heart?
Although Kerry is eager to paint his Vietnam service into his
campaign advertisements, and he loves to tell war stories, the
truth about Kerry's "medals" is something Kerry will NOT talk
about!
Doug Grant (Tm)
abracadabra
"DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
>
> © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
>
> It is easy to prove who is lying,
Sure - we can look at the historical record (which favors Kerry), the
eyewitnesses who were closest to the action (which all favor Kerry) verses
the "swifters" and see who's telling the truth and who's lying - the
swifters are lying.
>the 65 officers and men of the
> Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations)
LOL
Except they are all bought and paid for and none of them served with Kerry.
You lose.
Herb Martin
news:T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> >
> > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> >
> > It is easy to prove who is lying,
>
> Sure - we can look at the historical record (which favors Kerry), the
> eyewitnesses who were closest to the action (which all favor Kerry) verses
> the "swifters" and see who's telling the truth and who's lying - the
> swifters are lying.
Let's just look at Kerry's RECENT ADMISSIONS in light of the
Swiftvets devulging the truth about Kerry's lies:
So far, Kerry-0=SwiftVets-2 on decided points.
1) "Christmas in Cambodia" (four changes to Kerry's story already)
2) "The other boats fled, I went back alone" (Sandusky, Kerry's
pilot outed him on this one Thursday (8/19/04) by EXPLAINING
WHY Kerry's boat left while the others were working to save the
3-boat)
Sandusky explained "why" Kerry's boat did something he
had long accused falsely the other boats of doing (i.e., FLEEING.)
Last week, Kerry was forced to revise his decades-long contention he
was on a secret mission in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968.
Why Kerry changed the story FOUR TIMES defies explanation.
Kerry closed the Democratic National Convention with a story in
which he claimed that five swiftboats fled on March 13,
1969, after a mine explosion and only he came back to rescue Lt.
James Rassman. His campaign now is admitting that he fled and the
rest stayed, before he later returned for Rassman.
DDB
"abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> >
> > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> >
> > It is easy to prove who is lying,
>
> Sure - we can look at the historical record (which favors Kerry), the
> eyewitnesses who were closest to the action (which all favor Kerry) verses
> the "swifters" and see who's telling the truth and who's lying - the
> swifters are lying.
It seems to me that your position is based on emotion and not fact as
follows:
1. Kerry lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas eve in 1968. He made the
comment as a slap at Nixon but was too weak minded to figure out that Nixon
was not in office Christmas Eve 1968, in fact nixon wasn't president until
january 1969. Let alone the fact that the boarders were well gaurded and
signage was available to warn against accidentaly entering into Cambodia. He
lied.
2. His first Purple heart was issued on Dec 2nd 1968 for wounds he claimed
to have received in battle. Yet his own journals, used by the author of his
biography Tour of Duty include a passgae written on Dec 11th by kerry
describing his crew as coocky because they had never been fired on yet.
Seems odd that Kerry could receive a pruple heart for action on Dec 2nd and
yet he and his crew bee coocky on Dec 11th because they had never been fired
on.
patriot
"DDB" <IHat...@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:082dncM_ZuZ...@comcast.com...
Sec. of the Navy in the 80s. Kerry big event was 1968. Something fishy
here!!
>
Bill
if they occurred ) are no the basis for not voting for someone.
--
Bill
"DDB" <IHat...@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:082dncM_ZuZ...@comcast.com...
>
Thomas Curmudgeon
> SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
>
> © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
>
> It is easy to prove who is lying, the 65 officers and men of the
> Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations) or the
> so-called "Veteran" spokesperson for John Kerry. The spokesperson
> that is speaking for Mr. Kerry admits (1) he never rode on a
> Swift Boat in his life, and (2) never served with John Kerry,
Gee Doug, you wrote all that crap?
All the first hand accounts support Kerry. I stopped reading at the
first lie. That's your lie, Dougie, the lying liar.
John Kerry, Horse's Ass
"Thomas Curmudgeon" <e...@spam.yum> wrote in message
news:U3uWc.130122$sh.24321@fed1read06...
> DGVREIMAN wrote:
>
> > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> >
> > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> >
> > It is easy to prove who is lying, the 65 officers and men of the
> > Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations) or the
> > so-called "Veteran" spokesperson for John Kerry. The spokesperson
> > that is speaking for Mr. Kerry admits (1) he never rode on a
> > Swift Boat in his life, and (2) never served with John Kerry,
>
>
> Gee Doug, you wrote all that crap?
>
> All the first hand accounts support Kerry.
Actually, none of them support Kerry, Tommy. You need to go start READING
some of the accounts of Kerry's shenanigans and lies!
Herb Martin
news:Ev6dncc0Ppm...@comcast.com...
> > 1. Kerry lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas eve in 1968. He made
the
> > comment as a slap at Nixon but was too weak minded to figure out
thatNixon
> > was not in office Christmas Eve 1968, in fact nixon wasn't president
until
> > january 1969. Let alone the fact that the boarders were well gaurded and
> > signage was available to warn against accidentaly entering into
Cambodia.
>> He lied.
> > 2. His first Purple heart was issued on Dec 2nd 1968 for wounds he
claimed
> > to have received in battle. Yet his own journals, used by the author of
his
> > biography Tour of Duty include a passgae written on Dec 11th by kerry
> > describing his crew as coocky because they had never been fired on yet.
> > Seems odd that Kerry could receive a pruple heart for action on Dec 2nd
> and
> > yet he and his crew bee coocky on Dec 11th because they had never been
> fired on.
> "DDB" <IHat...@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
> > The record shows that Kerry`s bronze star was signed by John Leyman
> Sec. of the Navy in the 80s. Kerry big event was 1968. Something fishy
> here!!
Are you saying the Sec of the Navy in the 80's was in the
BOAT with Kerry in 1968?
Hint: Nixon wasn't president yet either.
Herb Martin
news:qttWc.504252$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Boy isn't this earth shattering stuff!!! Come on, minor errors like this (
> if they occurred ) are no the basis for not voting for someone.
Now we have the "doesn't count" defense.
I wondered how long it would take for that one.
If true (doesn't count) then Kerry should just admit the lies,
er, mistakes, and move on.
move on.
abracadabra
"DDB" <IHat...@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
>
> "abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
> >
> > Sure - we can look at the historical record (which favors Kerry), the
> > eyewitnesses who were closest to the action (which all favor Kerry)
verses
> > the "swifters" and see who's telling the truth and who's lying - the
> > swifters are lying.
>
> It seems to me that your position is based on emotion and not fact as
> follows:
LOL
You are confused. All Republican positions are based in emotion, because
they aren't very good thinkers.
> 1. Kerry lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas eve in 1968. He made
the
> comment as a slap at Nixon but was too weak minded to figure out that
Nixon
> was not in office Christmas Eve 1968
Is that the best you can do?
You all were saying he was a war criminal, that he had cheated to get his
medals, that he had deserted under fire.
Now he gets a date wrong and you call that "THE BIG LIE"?
LOL
> 2. His first Purple heart was issued on Dec 2nd 1968 for
Actually he got three purple hearts. How many did Bush get?
LOL
abracadabra
"Bill" <wm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:qttWc.504252$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> if they occurred ) are no the basis for not voting for someone.
Especially compared to
1) Turning record surpluses into record deficits
2) Starting a war over WMDs that didn't exist
3) "Liberating" people by torturing them
4) "Outing" an undercover CIA officer to get revenge on a critic
Bush's mistakes go on and on - but Kerry gets a date wrong when he's talking
to somebody, and these right wingers get their panties all twisted up
LOL
abracadabra
"Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
news:WArWc.15064$v86....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> "abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
> >
> > Sure - we can look at the historical record (which favors Kerry), the
> > eyewitnesses who were closest to the action (which all favor Kerry)
verses
> > the "swifters" and see who's telling the truth and who's lying - the
> > swifters are lying.
>
> Let's just look at Kerry's RECENT ADMISSIONS in light of the
> Swiftvets devulging the truth about Kerry's lies:
Except that the Swifters have been proven to be liars on crucial points.
> So far, Kerry-0=SwiftVets-2 on decided points.
>
> 1) "Christmas in Cambodia" (four changes to Kerry's story already)
Not really. I haven't heard that Kerry has made any "changes". Seems to me
like his "Christmas in Cambodia" is clearly him mis-remembering a date.
Their is no proof that he didn't go into Cambodia. Ya gotta remember that
jungle rivers don't have exit signs or mileposts, they didn't have GPS in
the 1960's, and on a boat, only the captain or navigator knows where the
hell you are. Anybody who hasn't been steering won't know shit.
> 2) "The other boats fled, I went back alone" (Sandusky, Kerry's
> pilot outed him on this one Thursday (8/19/04) by EXPLAINING
> WHY Kerry's boat left while the others were working to save the
> 3-boat)
I have heard (and I think you have too) that he deposited his men upriver so
they could go after the people shooting at them.
>
abracadabra
"Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
> "Bill" <wm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:qttWc.504252$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > Boy isn't this earth shattering stuff!!! Come on, minor errors like this
(
> > if they occurred ) are no the basis for not voting for someone.
>
> Now we have the "doesn't count" defense.
You all started out saying Kerry ran under fire, he lied to get medals, he
injured himself, etc.
Now it's "Well, he gave the wrong date when telling a story" - you all are
looking pretty silly.
> I wondered how long it would take for that one.
>
> If true (doesn't count) then Kerry should just admit the lies,
> er, mistakes, and move on.
Kerry hasn't lied yet, and frankly, your side ought not talk about admitting
mistakes (like invading the WRONG COUNTRY!)
The_Real_Truth
Wrong. Stephen Gardner was on Kerry's boat. He was the gunner that you
want to forget. The rest of them served with Kerry on other boats side
by side on patrol. We already know Kerry has been lying for over 35
years saying he was ordered by Nixon to spend Dec 24, 1968 in
Cambodia. Kerry said it was "seared...seared..." into his memory. He
said it was the "turning point " of his life. Well, that turning
point was a BIG LIE. Nixon wasn't even president at the time. But
Kerry had told that lie since 1979 when it first appreaded in the
Boson Herald. He employed the communist propaganda tehnique of telling
the lie over and over and soon no one ever questioned him- until now.
He is a traitor and a disgrace to every American alive. In short he is
UNFIT FOR COMMAND!
Dave Cook
> news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> >
> > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> >
> > It is easy to prove who is lying,
Is it? I don't know about that. The Kerry supporters are obscuring the
real question about the "ambush", a question they seem unable to
answer. There was a hail of gunfire from the shore of the river which
was 50 to 150 feet away. (That is half the length of a football field,
or less.) The boat is large (50 feet in length) There were no holes in
Kerry's boat. It is unbelievable that anyone can miss all of his shots
at that range. The only logical answer is that there was no shooting
from the shore. Kerry and Rassmann were mistaking the firing of the
Swift Boat Guns as being from the enemy. If you use Michael Moore's
definition of lying, then it would be Kerry, but heroics depend on
what you think the situation is.
Tom Betz
news:082dncM_ZuZ...@comcast.com:
> 1. Kerry lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas eve in
> 1968.
<http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4939470.html>
--
Where was AWOL George W. Bush?
<http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm>
Any government will waste money.
Only the worst waste lives.
John Agosta
"Dave Cook" <sag...@surfbest.net> wrote in message
news:c687e307.04082...@posting.google.com...
> "abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
>
> Is it? I don't know about that. The Kerry supporters are obscuring the
> real question about the "ambush", a question they seem unable to
> answer. There was a hail of gunfire from the shore of the river which
> was 50 to 150 feet away. (That is half the length of a football field,
> or less.) The boat is large (50 feet in length) There were no holes in
> Kerry's boat. It is unbelievable that anyone can miss all of his shots
> at that range. The only logical answer is that there was no shooting
> from the shore. Kerry and Rassmann were mistaking the firing of the
> Swift Boat Guns as being from the enemy. If you use Michael Moore's
> definition of lying, then it would be Kerry, but heroics depend on
> what you think the situation is.
>
Yeah. There's no holes in Kerry's boat.
Lots of holes in Bush's nose.
How laim can you be to try to degrade Kerry's time in Nam
when your leader was playing spin the bottle with his
playmates, getting busted for DUI, missing time from
duty, and getting suspended from flying because he
"over slept" as SdS would have it....
Get real.
GWB is a loser.
There's two kinds of people that support this dolt.
Millionaires and morons.
Which crowd do you belont to?
Herb Martin
> >
> > 1) "Christmas in Cambodia" (four changes to Kerry's story already)
>
> Not really. I haven't heard that Kerry has made any "changes". Seems to me
> like his "Christmas in Cambodia" is clearly him mis-remembering a date.
Well, even that would be ONE change. Are you really so stupid
as to think anyone will believe you disingenously saying YOU
haven't heard the changes?
He tried:
1) Never said it (then faced with the quotes tried)
2) Another time (then faced with the SEARED memories and DETAIL he
tried)
3) Between Cambodia and Vietnam (then face with "NO SUCH PLACE" he
tried)
4) Another near Cambodia
Note that the latter would NOT be illegal and would not lead
to his political epiphany -- his Damascus moment -- that changed
is philosophy and set his life course.
> Their is no proof that he didn't go into Cambodia. Ya gotta remember that
Actually there is plenty of proof that he did NOT go there and absolutely
no proof -- not one single document or witness -- that claims he did.
His crew agree they were never in Cambodia. There was an LCU
(large mechanized landing craft) stationed there and areas closer than
55 miles to Cambodia were patrolled by PBR (not Swifts) commanded
by Tom Anderson, Cmd. River Division 531 who has confirmed NO
SWIFTS and they would have been STOPPED if they had appeard.
> jungle rivers don't have exit signs or mileposts,
Actually there WAS you fool. Previously that year some soldiers had
ended up in Cambodia by mistake, caused a big political flap, and
they DID PUT UP A SIGN AND THE RIVER BLOCKADE to prevent
it happening.
> they didn't have GPS in
No, just radar and maps plus a RIVER TO FOLLOW you fool. The Delta
of the Mekong has settle into two clear river channels well before the
border
so if you go North-West you go to Cambodia and if you go South-East you
return to the Vietnam coast.
So only through Kerry's incompetence with a map (actually basic
compass points) or the RIVER FLOW and by willfully doing something
illegal could he have managed it.
> the 1960's, and on a boat, only the captain or navigator knows where the
> hell you are. Anybody who hasn't been steering won't know shit.
So then Kerry's attempt to blame HIS INCOMPETENCE for an
"illegal" invasion on the (wrong) president would just be more
of his being "Unfit to Command" since he is blaming Nixon, not
yet president, for lying about Kerry's being illegally in Cambodia
when no one, maybe not even Kerry knows where he is.
Kerry is lost and having a political epiphany which never happened
since the whole even is a figment of his imaginations.
> > 2) "The other boats fled, I went back alone" (Sandusky, Kerry's
> > pilot outed him on this one Thursday (8/19/04) by EXPLAINING
> > WHY Kerry's boat left while the others were working to save the
> > 3-boat)
>
> I have heard (and I think you have too) that he deposited his men upriver
so
> they could go after the people shooting at them.
Sorry, he FLED DOWNRIVER. And the other boats certainly did NOT
flee as he lie about such honorable men has been attesting.
Are you really a secret Bush operative trying to goad me into
eviscerating Kerry's lies or are you really so stupid as to make
up new lies for him without the facts to even make them plausible?
You cannot argue if you don't KNOW all the lies that Kerry has
told.
You guys are like the lawyer who has a client who lies to HIM,
and then he gets blindsided by every piece of evidence.
http://encarta.msn.com/map_701517408/Vietnam.html
Herb Martin
>
> "Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
> news:cbuWc.15192$v86....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > "Bill" <wm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:qttWc.504252$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > Boy isn't this earth shattering stuff!!! Come on, minor errors like
this
> (
> > > if they occurred ) are no the basis for not voting for someone.
> >
> > Now we have the "doesn't count" defense.
>
> You all started out saying Kerry ran under fire,
Yes, or at least he LEFT and the other did NOT FLEE as he claimed.
> he lied to get medals, he
> injured himself, etc.
Yes.
Two Purple Hearts for self-inflicted wounds while NOT in combat
Inflated the report for the Silver Star to invent a "superior enemy
force in entrenched positions" when it was ONE LONE FLEEING
WOUNDED VC -- and Kerry had help.
Bronze star -- hauled Rassmann out of the water and MOVED one
of the self-inflicted wounds to this location.
That's 4 or 5 -- the other Purple Heart has rumors but there is no
clear evidence that will prove it was also self-inflicted.
> Now it's "Well, he gave the wrong date when telling a story" - you all are
> looking pretty silly.
The story was "seared -- seared" into his memory, full of CHRISTMAS
details and is disputed by everyone and the physical facts and lack or
documentation.
He has changed it 4 times since getting caught -- 5 if you count
his idiot staffer who confused HIS Kerry with BOB Kerry but
I won't inflate it with something so stupid.
> Kerry hasn't lied yet
Click your heals three times and say, "I believe Kerry", "I believe Kerry"
"I believe Kerry" lied.
--
Herb Martin
>
>
Herb Martin
news:<T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
>
> Is it? I don't know about that. The Kerry supporters are obscuring the
> real question about the "ambush", a question they seem unable to
> answer. There was a hail of gunfire from the shore of the river which
> was 50 to 150 feet away. (That is half the length of a football field,
> or less.) The boat is large (50 feet in length) There were no holes in
> Kerry's boat. It is unbelievable that anyone can miss all of his shots
> at that range. The only logical answer is that there was no shooting
> from the shore. Kerry and Rassmann were mistaking the firing of the
> Swift Boat Guns as being from the enemy. If you use Michael Moore's
> definition of lying, then it would be Kerry, but heroics depend on
> what you think the situation is.
>
And remember Kerry's report claim heavy fire on both banks for "5000
METERS" that's almost 3 miles.
And since it was BOTH banks you can divide the river width in HALF.
They stayed there (except for Kerry who left and returned, then left again)
for OVER AN HOUR in one place.
If there had been a VC within miles they could have walked over
and setup a mortar a few thousand years into the brush.
--
Herb Martin
John Agosta
"Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
Sounds like a plan!
Click YOUR heals for each dollar wasted on an unneccessary war
in Iraq, each maimed or killed human being, every country that has
soured its sentiments towards our nation, and every new terrorist
that has joined the ranks due to Bush's misadventure.
Then, if time permits, say "moo" until November.
A vote for Bush is a vote for 4 more years.
Of failure.
Herb Martin
news:U3uWc.130122$sh.24321@fed1read06...
> first lie. That's your lie, Dougie, the lying liar.
You just don't get that this is the OPPOSITE of the truth,
even Kerry's campaign crew outs him every time they
speak which is likely the reason they are NOT allowed
on talk shows or in unscripted press conferences.
Now this following is just an example so if you argue with
it without facts then I will post another on a different Kerry
LIE then another....
LIE BY KERRY
"The other boats fled, I went back alone" (Sandusky, Kerry's
pilot outed him on this one Thursday (8/19/04) by EXPLAINING
WHY Kerry's boat left while the others were working to save the
3-boat)
Sandusky explained "why" Kerry's boat did something he
had long accused falsely the other boats of doing (i.e., FLEEING.)
Why Kerry changed the story FOUR TIMES defies explanation.
Kerry closed the Democratic National Convention with a story in
which he claimed that five swiftboats fled on March 13,
1969, after a mine explosion and only he came back to rescue Lt.
James Rassman. His campaign now is admitting that he fled and the
rest stayed, before he later returned for Rassman.
Last week, Kerry was forced to revise his decades-long contention he
was on a secret mission in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968.
--
Herb Martin
abracadabra
"Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
> "abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3ouWc.1787$Y%3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
> > news:cbuWc.15192$v86....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > > "Bill" <wm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > > news:qttWc.504252$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > > Boy isn't this earth shattering stuff!!! Come on, minor errors like
> this
> > (
> > > > if they occurred ) are no the basis for not voting for someone.
> > >
> > > Now we have the "doesn't count" defense.
> >
> > You all started out saying Kerry ran under fire,
>
> Yes, or at least he LEFT and the other did NOT FLEE as he claimed.
You hear that another swift boat captian who was their backs up Kerry's
version of events?
UH OH!
> > he lied to get medals, he
> > injured himself, etc.
>
> Yes.
> Two Purple Hearts for self-inflicted wounds while NOT in combat
According to whom?
Come on, you haven't come up with a better citation then the Swifters for
"Truth", and they're discredited.
> Inflated the report for the Silver Star to invent a "superior enemy
> force in entrenched positions" when it was ONE LONE FLEEING
> WOUNDED VC -- and Kerry had help.
According to whom?
> Bronze star -- hauled Rassmann out of the water and MOVED one
> of the self-inflicted wounds to this location.
>
> That's 4 or 5 -- the other Purple Heart has rumors but there is no
> clear evidence that will prove it was also self-inflicted.
Wow - rumors?
I presume that you are not working in any field that requires objective
facts.
>
> > Now it's "Well, he gave the wrong date when telling a story" - you all
are
> > looking pretty silly.
>
> The story was "seared -- seared" into his memory, full of CHRISTMAS
> details and is disputed by everyone and the physical facts and lack or
> documentation.
It was something he said when - back in the 1980's? Come on - it's not like
"We told Saddam he had to let inspectors in, and he wouldn't" (Dubya)
> He has changed it 4 times since getting caught --
You keep saying that, and you keep not putting up any direct citations.
>
>
abracadabra
"The_Real_Truth" <therealt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:aed76c4f.04082...@posting.google.com...
> "abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
> >
> > Sure - we can look at the historical record (which favors Kerry), the
> > eyewitnesses who were closest to the action (which all favor Kerry)
verses
> > the "swifters" and see who's telling the truth and who's lying - the
> > swifters are lying.
> >
> > >the 65 officers and men of the
> > > Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations)
> >
> > LOL
> > Except they are all bought and paid for and none of them served with
Kerry.
> >
> > You lose.
>
>
>
> Wrong. Stephen Gardner was on Kerry's boat. He was the gunner that you
> want to forget.
"Forget"? I never heard of him.
>The rest of them served with Kerry on other boats side
> by side on patrol.
Or they were hundreds of miles away
LOL
Now come on pussy, let's see what evidence you have that hasn't been TOTALLY
REFUTED by the official military records and contemporaneous witnesses and
writings that
1) Kerry didn't rescue a guy under fire
2) Kerry "faked" his medals
3) Kerry ran away while under fire
Come on - those are your BIG CHARGES - not that he got a date wrong while
remembering details about events from two dozen years before.
LOL
Ya got nothing, and Bush has Swifter-shit all over his chin
LOL
abracadabra
news:<T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
>
> Is it? I don't know about that.
Actually it is.
Contemporaneous writings and witnesses back up Kerry's version of events,
along with official military records.
> The Kerry supporters are obscuring the
> real question about the "ambush", a question they seem unable to
> answer. There was a hail of gunfire from the shore of the river which
> was 50 to 150 feet away. (That is half the length of a football field,
> or less.) The boat is large (50 feet in length) There were no holes in
> Kerry's boat. It is unbelievable that anyone can miss all of his shots
> at that range.
Where'd you hear that no boats had any bullet holes? Got a citation for that
one, because I've heard (as in not read) differently.
BTW - so you're claiming that all the official military records of the time
lied, and all the witnesses lied, and only the swifters are telling the
truth, including the ones who got awards for BEING UNDER FIRE?
Your "logic" needs work
abracadabra
"Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
> "Dave Cook" <sag...@surfbest.net> wrote in message
> news:c687e307.04082...@posting.google.com...
> > "abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > > news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > > >
> > > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > > >
> > > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
> >
> > Is it? I don't know about that. The Kerry supporters are obscuring the
> > real question about the "ambush", a question they seem unable to
> > answer. There was a hail of gunfire from the shore of the river which
> > was 50 to 150 feet away. (That is half the length of a football field,
> > or less.) The boat is large (50 feet in length) There were no holes in
> > Kerry's boat. It is unbelievable that anyone can miss all of his shots
> > at that range. The only logical answer is that there was no shooting
> > from the shore. Kerry and Rassmann were mistaking the firing of the
> > Swift Boat Guns as being from the enemy. If you use Michael Moore's
> > definition of lying, then it would be Kerry, but heroics depend on
> > what you think the situation is.
> >
>
> And remember Kerry's report claim heavy fire on both banks for "5000
> METERS" that's almost 3 miles.
Got a citation for that one?
Freedom Fighter
Kerry also said he was not present at a meeting in which a plan was devised
to assassinate United States Senators. FBI surveillance reports recently
released prove he was not only present but was a member of the steering
committee. How many lies must be exposed before his pseudo defense lawyers
see what a traitor he really is?
--
I don't need no social working government
taking my property to divy up with anybody.
If I see someone needing help, I'll decide if
I want to pitch in or not.
The Freedom Fighter
vonroach
>but heroics depend on
>what you think the situation is.
Heroics depend on what OTHERS see and report.
Thomas Curmudgeon
Actually, the one's who do know, and those who were there, do support
Kerry. It's the partisans who are throwing the mud. Just like they did
to John McCain, a Republican war hero. Incidently, one who calls Bush
and these "swift boat" dorks liars over this issue.
Bill
events in Vietnam. The Switfboat version is politically motivated fiction.
--
Bill
"Thomas Curmudgeon" <e...@spam.yum> wrote in message
news:rtJWc.131800$sh.100990@fed1read06...
John Kerry, Horse's Ass
"Thomas Curmudgeon" <e...@spam.yum> wrote in message
> John Kerry, Horse's Ass wrote:
>
> > "Thomas Curmudgeon" <e...@spam.yum> wrote in message
> > news:U3uWc.130122$sh.24321@fed1read06...
> >
> >>DGVREIMAN wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> >>>
> >>>© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> >>>
> >>>It is easy to prove who is lying, the 65 officers and men of the
> >>>Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations) or the
> >>>so-called "Veteran" spokesperson for John Kerry. The spokesperson
> >>>that is speaking for Mr. Kerry admits (1) he never rode on a
> >>>Swift Boat in his life, and (2) never served with John Kerry,
> >>
> >>
> >>Gee Doug, you wrote all that crap?
> >>
> >>All the first hand accounts support Kerry.
> >
> >
> >
> > Actually, none of them support Kerry, Tommy. You need to go start
READING
> > some of the accounts of Kerry's shenanigans and lies!
> >
>
> Actually, the one's who do know, and those who were there, do support
> Kerry.
Nope. You know that picture that Kerry ran in his ads, showing him standing
there, grinning like a coward, surrounded by 19 fellow swiftboat vets?
Only ONE of those men support Kerry!
> It's the partisans who are throwing the mud.
I agree! Kerry and his partisans are throwing mud.
> Just like they did
> to John McCain, a Republican war hero.
Yes, Democrat partisans have been attacking Republicans for years.
> Incidently, one who calls Bush
> and these "swift boat" dorks liars over this issue.
Not a grammatically intelligible sentence. Care to try again?
BTW, there's no need to enquote "swift boat", because that's what they're
called. Even the coward Kerry calls what he piloted a swiftboat. Get up to
speed, honey.
John Kerry, Horse's Ass
> The official archives of the Dept. of Defence support Kerry's version of
> events in Vietnam.
On the contrary, they *contradict* Kerry's lies.
Kerry was NOT in Cambodia for Christmas.
Bill
instead of political propaganda go to;
URL: http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html
--
Bill
"Thomas Curmudgeon" <e...@spam.yum> wrote in message
news:rtJWc.131800$sh.100990@fed1read06...
John Kerry, Horse's Ass
> If you want to read the official Defense Dept. records of the Vietnam
events
> instead of political propaganda go to;
>
> URL: http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html
------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^---------------------------
LOL! Good one, Bill! John Kerry now thinks his website is the storehouse
for the "official Defense Department records"!! Kerry is more mentally
deranged than we originally thought!
Herb Martin
> > > real question about the "ambush", a question they seem unable to
> > > answer. There was a hail of gunfire from the shore of the river which
> > > was 50 to 150 feet away. (That is half the length of a football field,
> > > or less.) The boat is large (50 feet in length) There were no holes in
> > > Kerry's boat. It is unbelievable that anyone can miss all of his shots
> > > at that range. The only logical answer is that there was no shooting
> > > from the shore. Kerry and Rassmann were mistaking the firing of the
> > > Swift Boat Guns as being from the enemy. If you use Michael Moore's
> > > definition of lying, then it would be Kerry, but heroics depend on
> > > what you think the situation is.
> > >
> >
> > And remember Kerry's report claim heavy fire on both banks for "5000
> > METERS" that's almost 3 miles.
>
> Got a citation for that one?
Kerry's own "After Action Report" aka "Spot Report" proves
him a liar since no boats were hit despite being essentially
parked for over an hour:
Here is a quote from it on KERRY's site:
(Kerry and crew cannot open their mouths without giving
away more of the truth about Kerry's lies.)
[If someone gets a web link to the actual report please post it.]
http://www.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/080504_truth.html
Official Naval documents available to the public at the Naval Historical
Center in Washington, DC and available at www.JohnKerry.com include the
after action reports, also known as "spot reports." These reports contain
the details of the four boats involved in these actions on March, 13.
1969-including Kerry's boat PCF-94. These reports contain specific details
of time, personnel, combat action and even maps. These report specifically
detail the boats involved receiving, "HEAVY A/W (automatic weapons) AND S/A
(small arms) FROM BOTH BANKS. FIRECONTINUED FOZNABOUT 5000 METERS."
"HEAVY A/W (automatic weapons) AND S/A (small arms) FROM BOTH BANKS.
FIRECONTINUED FOZNABOUT 5000 METERS."
Heawy A/W is at least 50 51 calibre machine gun.
Smaller weapons are included in in "small arms."
50 or 51 (Communist) calibre machine guns are practically
always fixed in place or mounted on a tripod or other support.
This right here is a "document" that proves Kerry a liar if you
can just prove this is HIS report (which they claim on his site.)
John Agosta
Who the hell cares if there are bullet holes or not?
Kerry was there.
Bush was getting suspended because he was getting high.
This whole debate is a distraction by those on the right who
have no record of their own to stand on.
abracadabra
"Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
> > > So far, Kerry-0=SwiftVets-2 on decided points.
> > >
> > > 1) "Christmas in Cambodia" (four changes to Kerry's story already)
> >
> > Not really. I haven't heard that Kerry has made any "changes". Seems to
me
> > like his "Christmas in Cambodia" is clearly him mis-remembering a date.
>
> Well, even that would be ONE change. Are you really so stupid
> as to think anyone will believe you disingenously saying YOU
> haven't heard the changes?
>
> He tried:
> 1) Never said it (then faced with the quotes tried)
> 2) Another time (then faced with the SEARED memories and DETAIL he
> tried)
> 3) Between Cambodia and Vietnam (then face with "NO SUCH PLACE" he
> tried)
> 4) Another near Cambodia
Look, I don't listen to Rush and I don't listen to Foxnews.
I read
1) Local paper - Raleigh News and Observer
2) Washingtonpost.com
3) New York Times online
4) Salon.com
5) The Nation
6) New Yorker
7) Slate.com
8) American Politics Journal (mostly for Pundit Pap)
I listen to
1) BBC America
2) NPR
I "watch" very little TV news. It's a waste of time. Local news is all
"Local teens shot" kinda news, and national news is always behind NPR and
print news.
SO no, I haven't seen much mentioned at all about the "Cambodia Story"
Slate did a good article about it. I'll past it here, and I'm sure you'll
enjoy it.
It is a twisted state of affairs that George W. Bush's most avid surrogates
are trying to make this election turn on the question of whether Lt. John
Kerry was or was not in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968.
Having pretty much failed at their efforts to disprove the official U.S.
Navy account of Kerry's valor in battle as skipper of a "Swift boat"
patrolling the Mekong Delta, the veterans against Kerry have moved to
discredit his more obscure claim-made a few times over the years, in
interviews and Senate floor speeches-that, on Dec. 24, he took CIA or
special ops forces across the border into Cambodia, even while Washington
claimed no American troops were there.
Kerry first told this story publicly in an article published in the Boston
Herald on Oct. 14, 1979, before he was a senator:
I remember Christmas Eve of 1968, five miles across the Cambodian border
being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating
Christmas.
He elaborated the tale on March 27, 1986, during a Senate debate over
whether to aid the Nicaraguan contras:
I remember Christmas of 1968, sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember
what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians
and have the President of the United States telling the American people that
I was not there, the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which
is seared-seared-in me.
A more intriguing reference-now known as "the famous good-luck-hat
story"-was made in a Washington Post profile, by Laura Blumenfeld, published
on June 1, 2003:
There's a secret compartment in Kerry's briefcase. He carries the black
attache everywhere. Asked about it on several occasions, Kerry brushed it
aside. Finally, trapped in an interview, he exhaled and clicked open his
case.
"Who told you?" he demanded as he reached inside. "My friends don't know
about this."
The hat was a little mildewy. The green camouflage was fading, the seams
fraying.
"My good luck hat," Kerry said, happy to see it. "Given to me by a CIA guy
as we went in for a special mission in Cambodia."
But now some anti-Kerry veterans are saying he was never in Cambodia. John
O'Neill, who has been dogging Kerry more than 30 years, told Matt Drudge
that the senator's Christmas-in-Cambodia stories "are complete lies." As
evidence, he cites Kerry's own wartime diary, as quoted in Douglas
Brinkley's Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War. That book-according
to Drudge's account of it-places Kerry in Sa Dec, 50 miles away from
Cambodia, on Christmas Eve, and seemingly at peace. "Visions of sugarplums
really do dance through your head," Kerry wrote in his diary that night,
"and you think of stockings and snow and roast chestnuts and fires with
birch logs and all that is good and warm and real."
That passage is on Page 219 of Brinkley's book. But O'Neill, Drudge, and the
other sneerers choose to ignore the 10 preceding pages-the opening pages of
a chapter called "Death in the Delta." On Christmas Eve 1968, Brinkley
writes, Kerry and his crew:
headed their Swift north by the Cho Chien River to its junction with the
My Tho only miles from the Cambodian border. . Kerry began reading up on
Cambodia's history in a book he had borrowed from the floating barracks in
An Thoi. . He even read about a 1959 Pentagon study titled "Psychological
Observations: Cambodia," which . state[d] that Cambodians "cannot be counted
on to act in any positive way for the benefit of U.S. aims and policies."
[Italics added.]
Brinkley also quotes from Kerry's diary: "It was early morning, not yet
light. Ours was the only movement on the river, patrolling near the
Cambodian line." [Italics added.] Brinkley continues: "At a bend just as
they were approaching the Cambodian border, two [U.S. river-patrol boats]
met the Swift." Then, again from Kerry's diary: "Suddenly, there is an
explosion and a mortar lands on the bank near all three boats." The next few
pages detail a ferocious firefight, one part of which involved (as his diary
noted) "the ridiculous waste of being shot at by your own allies."
Only a few hours later, in the evening, did Kerry's boat reach the
stationing area of Sa Dec. "The night for once is comforting," Kerry wrote
in his diary, "and you take a Coke and some peanut butter and jelly and go
up on the roof of the cabin with your tape recorder and sit for a while,
quietly watching flares float silently through the sky and flashes announce
disquieting intent somewhere in the distance." It is in this context that
Kerry then wrote, in a letter to home, about "visions of sugarplums" and
thinking of "snow and roast chestnuts."
So let's review the situation. On Christmas Eve 1968, Kerry's Swift boat and
at least two river-patrol boats were doing something unusual (Kerry wrote
that he'd never been so far in-country) at least in the vicinity of the
border-"near the Cambodian line," as he put it in his diary. And Kerry had
with him a book that described a Pentagon study on psychological operations
against Cambodia.
It is certain that by this time, the United States had long been making
secret incursions across the border. This is from Page 24 of William
Shawcross' 1979 book, Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon, and the Destruction of
Cambodia:
Since May 1967, when the U.S. Military Command in Saigon became concerned
at the way the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong were evading American "search
and destroy" and air attacks in Vietnam by making more use of bases in Laos
and Cambodia, the U.S. Special Forces had been running special, highly
classified missions into the two countries. Their code name was Daniel
Boone.
The Daniel Boone teams entered Cambodia all along its 500-mile frontier with
South Vietnam from the lonely, craggy, impenetrable mountain forests in the
north, down to the well-populated and thickly reeded waterways along the
Mekong River. [Italics added.]
We know that Kerry's boat and two others were in those reeds on Christmas
Eve '68.
The Cambodian special forces' incursions-which were conducted without the
knowledge, much less approval, of Congress-were escalating around that time.
Just over a month later, on Feb. 9, 1969, Gen. Creighton Abrams, commander
of U.S. forces in Vietnam, requested a B-52 bombing attack on a Communist
camp inside Cambodia. (Richard Nixon, the new president, approved the plan
on March 17; the first strikes of Operation Breakfast-the secret bombing of
Cambodia-started the next day.) Shawcross writes that special forces were
always sent across the border to survey the area for targets just before an
air operation.
Did Kerry cross the border or just go up to it? We may never know for sure.
Not much paperwork exists for covert operations (officially, U.S. forces
weren't in Cambodia). Nor is it likely that a canny Swift-boat skipper (and
Kerry was nothing if not canny) would jot down thoughts about such covert
operations in a diary on a boat that might be captured by the enemy.
The circumstances at least suggest that Kerry was indeed involved in a
"black" mission, even if he had never explicitly made that claim. And why
would he make such claims if he hadn't been? It was neither a glamorous nor
a particularly admirable mission-certainly nothing to boast of.
But one thing is for sure: Lt. Kerry did not spend that Christmas Eve just
lying around, dreaming of sugarplums and roasted chestnuts. He had plenty of
time to cover the 40 miles from the Cambodian border to the safety of Sa Dec
(he did command a swift boat, after all). More to the point, the evidence
indicates he did cover those 40 miles: He was near (or in?) Cambodia in the
morning, in Sa Dec that night.
Fred Kaplan writes the "War Stories" column for Slate.
Freedom Fighter
"John Agosta" <j_agosta@remove_wideopenwest.kom> wrote in message
news:neadnYetrcT...@wideopenwest.com...
We do. That's why the subject is "Swift Boat lies or truth".
If you want to find someone that cares about Bush, start a thread and ask
all the questions you want.
John Agosta
"Freedom Fighter" <f...@freenet.net> wrote in message
news:M71Xc.79659$RY5....@news.easynews.com...
Don't snip - that is - IF you want the truth.
SBVfT are intentionally throwing red herrings into the GWB / JK debate.
The fact remains: JK was there. In Combat.
Bush was home getting high, and suspended from flying.
I personally don't care about how JK got his Purple Hearts.
Or, if there were bullet holes in his boat after a particular battle.
He was THERE.
Bush was getting drunk.
Get real.
John Agosta
Bush was getting drunk and suspended.
What else does anyone need to know about service?
MOONIES for Bush
twrote
>
> We do. That's why the subject is "Swift Boat lies
SwiftLiar Repug Oregon Prosecutor Going Down in Hail of Exposure
Bullets -- VETS against Republican Operative Who FELONY FRAUD Lied on
a SwiftLies Ad... THE TRUTH COMES OUT -- He wasn't there, he saw
nothing, he was rehearsed by three Kerry enemies.
One by One the SwiftLiars are falling until the smoke all clears there
won't be a single one left standing.
August 24, 2004
http://tinyurl.com/4zmpj
http://news.google.com Results 41 for Alfred French Swift Boat.
http://tinyurl.com/5c4cn Oregon Vietnam veterans accuse Kerry critic
of misleading the ...
Coos Bay World, OR - 33 minutes ago
... The veterans want Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the
Clackamas County district ... having appeared in an ad sponsored by
the group Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/5bmb7 Vets protest prosecutor in anti-Kerry ad
Boston.com, MA - 51 minutes ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/486oe Oregon vets protest prosecutor's statement in
anti-Kerry ad
San Francisco Chronicle, CA - 57 minutes ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/6q3xl Vets Say Prosecutor Lied in Anti-Kerry Ad
Capitol Hill Blue, VA - 1 hour ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/5dgh5 Oregon veterans protest DA in anti-Kerry ad
Raleigh News, NC - 1 hour ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/6o8rn Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
WJLA, DC - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/5oejq Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
Guardian, UK - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4exzk Prosecutor under fire for anti-Kerry role
MSNBC - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney’s office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/3spp7 Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
phillyburbs.com, PA - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/3qvj9 Vets protest prosecutor in anti-Kerry ad
MLive.com, MI - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/6fg7c Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
philly.com (subscription), PA - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4jg3e Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
Los Angeles Times (subscription), CA - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4eulj Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
Miami Herald (subscription), FL - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4m7cb Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
Newsday, NY - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/5eotg Vets protest prosecutor in anti-Kerry ad
Seattle Post Intelligencer, WA - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/3vw2k Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
San Jose Mercury News (subscription), CA - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/3kzvg Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
The State, SC - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4oyz9 Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
ABC News - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/5ndon WASHINGTON, Aug. 24 /US Newswire/ --
Following is a fact sheet ...
U.S. Newswire (press release), DC - 2 hours ago
... The veterans want Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the
Clackamas County district ... having appeared in an ad sponsored by
the group Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/5ndon Vietnam vets rally against Clackamas County
prosecutor
Oregonian, OR - 7 hours ago
... on the Main Street steps of the county courthouse, said of Alfred
French. ... French's comments have been used in anti-Kerry ads by
Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/57qf3 Veterans call for Kerry critic to resign
Salem Statesman Journal, OR - 9 hours ago
... The veterans want Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the
Clackamas County district ... having appeared in an ad sponsored by
the group Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/6cl6b Veterans gather on county courthouse steps to
accuse Kerry critic ...
Corvallis Gazette Times, OR - 13 hours ago
... Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the district attorney's
office here, resign from his job for having appeared in an ad
sponsored by the group Swift Boat ...
http://tinyurl.com/46rjw Veterans accuse Kerry critic of misleading
the public
kgw.com (subscription), OR - 17 hours ago
... The veterans want Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the
Clackamas County district ... having appeared in an ad sponsored by
the group Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/5bf5k Vets, others call for resignation of
prosecutor in Swift Boat ad
kgw.com (subscription), OR - 22 hours ago
... Alfred French, 58, a senior deputy district attorney, appeared in
the recent ad by the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth and said: "I served
with John Kerry. . . . ...
http://tinyurl.com/64plw The Swift Boat war
Oregonian, OR - Aug 22, 2004
... such as Clackamas County prosecutor Alfred French, who are ...
game for those who, like French, believe he ... The Swift Boat
veterans attacking Kerry fall well below ...
http://tinyurl.com/5ewdo Vietnam vets battle over Kerry
Oregonian, OR - Aug 21, 2004
... Alfred French, a Clackamas County prosecutor who also served ...
said he's not surprised by French's statements, given ... it seeks to
denounce the Swift boat veterans ...
http://tinyurl.com/3rtwt Oregon man says Kerry lied about war record
Salem Statesman Journal, OR - Aug 21, 2004
Alfred French, 58, a senior deputy district attorney, appears in ...
In the ad, French says, “I served with ... three Purple Hearts
commanding a swift boat in Vietnam ...
http://tinyurl.com/4bgqv 3 Oregon vets at center of pro, con Kerry ads
kgw.com (subscription), OR - Aug 20, 2004
... Commission against an ad by Swift Boat Veterans For ... From left
to right: Rassmann, McPeak and French. ... features 13 veterans
including Alfred French, a Clackamas ...
Herb Martin
> The fact remains: JK was there. In Combat.
Yes, and he was in Paris consorting with the enemy too,
while he was still a Naval Reserve OFFICER.
Then he lied about all vets who served hororably and
confessed himself a war criminal who committed
atrocities (on both the Dick Cavette Show and Meet
the Press.)
Oh, and he obtained almost all of his decorations by
fraud and exagerration.
Want to talk about his fraudulent "sampan incident"
report where Kerry's boat killed a CHILD and then
Kerry wrote it up as "5 VC killed -- 2 VC captured."
He forgot to mention the "2 VC" were the childes mother
and baby brother....
Kerry will NEVER take responsibility for his mistakes
and lies.
Freedom Fighter
"John Agosta" <j_agosta@remove_wideopenwest.kom> wrote in message
Start a thread about Bush and I'm sure you will get a lot of action. Most of
us dug into his background in 2000 and at least I know that I didn't vote
for him. I don't care about him. I'm only interested in the truth about
Kerry and I don't care to waste my time having to swerve through a bunch of
stuff I already know about Bush.
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
It is easy to prove who is lying, the 65 officers and men of the
Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations) or the
so-called "Veteran" spokesperson for John Kerry. The spokesperson
that is speaking for Mr. Kerry admits (1) he never rode on a
Swift Boat in his life, and (2) never served with John Kerry,
ever, under any circumstances. So why is Mr. Hurley (Mr. Hurley
is the Veteran spokesperson for John Kerry) speaking for John
Kerry instead of at least one of his "band of brothers?" Mr.
Hurley often claims Kerry's crew "will confirm everything he and
John Kerry are claiming." So why is Mr. Kerry afraid to allow his
crew to speak publicly? Mr. Hurley, who did not even serve in the
same service as John Kerry, is quick to claim all of Kerry's crew
members will verify everything he is saying, but frankly I doubt
it.
I believe I know the reason why John Kerry does not want his crew
members to speak publicly. Part of Mr. Kerry's crew were already
interviewed previously by Mr. Brinkly when Brinkly completed his
biographical book on John Kerry, and during those interviews,
many of John Kerry's crew had something quite different to say
about John Kerry and those "missions" that earned Kerry all those
"medals." Ergo, Kerry is keeping his "band of brothers" as far
away from the camera as possible. Moreover, what promises has
John Kerry made to his "band of brothers" to get them to change
or modify their stories? We know they are traveling with the
Democratic candidate, and they are enjoying lavish hotels, meals,
and other "perks." But what else has Kerry offered them to
"change or modify their story" from previous accounts? It appears
that John Kerry does not want that question to be asked of his
"band of brothers" so he is hiding them from the press and
sending out Mr. Hurley, who can do no real damage because he
admits he never served with Kerry, to run interference with the
Press in respect to this hot issue.
I should also mention the Swift Boat members represent John Kerry
's entire chain of command when he was in Vietnam. Moreover, the
Swift Boat members have not been promised anything by anyone to
tell the truth, and further, Mr. O'Neil has said all proceeds
from his book "Unfit to Command" will be donated to charity.
Mr. Kerry's spokesperson, Mr. Hurley, constantly refers to Navy
documents that seem to substantiate John Kerry's version of Kerry
's Vietnam missions in question. But Hurley's reference to those
documents is clearly a deceptive and false reference. All of the
Navy documents Mr. Hurley is referencing are based completely on
the Spot or Incident reports that were initially filed after each
mission. Now guess who wrote up the accounts of those missions
and wrote them in a manner they would make him look like a hero?
Yep, you guessed it, ol Hanoi John Kerry himself. Also, guess
which documents' John Kerry is refusing to release (along with
several fitness reports that are not very complementary)? John
Kerry is refusing to release the Spot or Incident reports that he
authored and that he filed with a higher command so
surreptitiously that his fellow officers never saw them. The
public has a right to see those spot or incident reports you
authored Mr. Kerry. Please release them.
John Kerry took an 8mm Camera with him to Vietnam, and he
constantly reenacted missions on film that were distortions of
the real missions. That we know is a fact based upon statements
from his fellow officers. (One of those reinactments was shown at
the Democratic Convention and was misrepresented as a real
account and not a Hollywood version. But when the Swift Boat
members started to talk about Kerry's film, then Kerry admitted
his "version" was akin to a Michael Moore production). So if Mr.
Kerry will distort the filming of reinactments of missions in
Vietnam, and he will lie to Congress about what American Veterans
did in Vietnam, and clearly Kerry lied about being in Cambodia
(Kerry conjured up that lie so as to embarrass the Nixon
administration with hype and lies, true to Kerry's style) - so
considering all of the lies and distortions we have already
caught John Kerry trying to sell to the American people, can we
also believe that John Kerry would sink so low as to distort and
lie on Spot or Incident reports to gain medals that he clearly
did not deserve?
The Spot or Incident reports that gained Kerry his medals need to
be released and reviewed by the American public. If Kerry wrote
up his own reports in such a manner to gain him medals he did not
deserve, then Kerry should be forced to return those medals and
apologize to the American people for using deceit and deception
to gain Military awards he clearly did not merit.
The following is an account of John Kerry's Vietnam missions
based upon what some of Kerry's crew told Mr. David Brinkly years
back when Mr. Brinkly was preparing his Biography on John Kerry,
and what some of Kerry's Swift Boat comrades have said, and what
John Kerry said himself on record before he became a candidate
for the Presidency of the United States. (See Kerry's own account
at the end of this article. It contradicts what Kerry is saying
now).
During a patrol in the Mekong Delta in 1969 Kerry's crew caught
sight of a Vietnamese Sampan. So without checking the Sampan, who
was on board, or even if the Sampans were Viet Cong or just
civilian fishing boats, Kerry gave the signal for his crew to
open fire on the defenseless fishermen. Kerry later described the
fishermen as "running away like gazelles." - which is
understandable considering the amount of machine gun and M16
rifle fire that was directed toward them coming from Kerry's
boat. During this encounter, without a single shot fired at Kerry
or his boat, somehow, someway, Lt. Kerry suffered a very minor
scratch to his arm (probably from a self-inflicted wound as none
of his men saw him receive the wound, nor did he even announce
the wound to his crew when he claimed he received it). Yet after
Kerry returned from the mission, he immediately demanded a
"Purple Heart"medal for that tiny scratch, and for some
mysterious reason and contrary to Navy regulations, his request
for that medal was granted.
The above is a true account of Lt. Kerry's first Purple Heart
medal -a scratch on the arm not even caused by hostile fire,
directly nor indirectly, and not treated by any medical
personnel. Note also the Purple Heart medal regulations at the
time required any wound to be "treated by medical personnel"
before it could even qualify for the Purple Heart medal. The fact
the Navy Doctor that "looked at"( looking at is not "treating")
Kerry's tiny scratch on his arm (which did not come from hostile
fire and probably was self-inflicted) has come forward on his on
volition and stated for the record that he did not "treat Kerry's
wound" and he further said it did not require any treatment it
was such a minor scratch. So how did Kerry manage to wrangle his
Purple Heart medal for a tiny scratch that was not caused by any
hostile fire nor required treatment by medical personnel? Shouldn
't Kerry be required to give that Purple Heart medal back? Or, is
Hanoi Kerry "still" above the law today like he was then -
considering his privileged rich life, and all of his proper prep
schools and him being close friends with the politically elite?
John Kerry had unmeasured political influence when he entered the
Navy, (the Kennedys) and it seems that his political influence
was at work during his four total months of service on the swift
boats in Vietnam. Purple Hearts are supposed to be awarded for
wounds suffered in Combat, not for firing on innocent fishermen
nor purposefully scratching your arm in the process. All of Kerry
's life he has gotten away with deception and duplicitous
positions on political matters, such as when he graduated from
Yale he presented a condemning and scathing speech against the
U.S. Military and our war in Vietnam - but then after graduation
he went out and joined the Navy! Why? What was Kerry up to?
I spent 15 months in Vietnam and 12 months in Korea. If I had put
in for a Purple Heart for every jungle scratch I received, or had
any of my men, we would have been laughed at and scorned by our
fellow soldiers. Not to mention been denied those medals for
scratches that (1) were not as a result of combat and (2) did not
even require medical attention nor even a band-aid nor even an
aspirin. But for some strange reason, Kerry received his first
medal for scratches that most soldiers in Vietnam suffered almost
on a daily basis.
To add even more mystery to Kerry's shameless pandering for
medals, Kerry's immediate commander at the time, Mr. Grant
Hibbard, has come forward on his own volition and confirmed on
national television that: (1) During the encounter in question
Kerry nor his boat ever took any enemy fire. (2) Kerry had a tiny
scratch on his arm that did not require medical attention. (3)
He, (Commander Hibbard) did not authorize, nor recommend Kerry's
purple heart medal. (4) There was no way Kerry could receive a
Purple Heart medal for that encounter without his immediate
commander's recommendation. (End of paraphrase of Commander
Hibbard's statements on Cable news).
To add to this obvious deception by Kerry, the Naval doctor that
looked at Kerry's "wound" said that Kerry's "wound" was nothing
more than a tiny scratch caused by a tiny splinter of metal that
did not occur from hostile fire, and that scratch at worst would
require a tiny band-aid, and that he did not recommend any
treatment for the scratch as these scratches are incurred by all
soldiers almost on a daily basis in the jungles of Vietnam.
The testimony from Kerry's commanding officer, and the Navy
Doctor, prove the only way Hanoi John Kerry could have received a
Purple Heart for a tiny scratch on his arm that was not received
in combat or by hostile fire, and that was not recommended nor
approved by his commanding officer was to either (1) forge an
incident report (2) produce and sign incident reports as the
commander of the boat that would falsely authorize him to receive
such a medal, or (3) go over his immediate commander's head and
use political influence to gain a medal he clearly did not
deserve.
Moreover, the primary reason I believe Kerry's tiny scratch was
"self-inflicted" is at the time of the alleged wound Kerry did
not tell anyone about it! Although he said it was "pitch black"
and he received a "stinging wound" in his arm (which is
impossible because no one was shooting at him) he still did not
call for a Corpsman, nor did Kerry mention the wound to any
members of his crew at the time he allegedly received the wound.
All of the soldiers I know would have at least wanted to know how
badly they were hit if they were hit in combat. Wouldn't you want
to know whether you should tie the wound off or otherwise treat
it before you bleed to death? Yet Kerry not only failed to even
mention his alleged wound at the time he allegedly received it,
none of his crew witnessed him receiving any would, and
amazingly, Kerry did not even bother checking his "wound" ever
until the mission was completely over and he had returned to his
base camp. Kerry's wound, to me at least, is a classic example of
a "self-inflicted wound." I should also add that at the time of
Kerry's alleged wound, he was not even located in a metal boat
and his boat was not drawing any fire - so where did the tiny
sliver of metal come from - Kerry's pocket probably?
Note also that Kerry is willing to release the General orders
awarding him his Purple Heart medal, but he mysteriously refuses
to release the incident report or the application forms that were
relied upon by the Navy that somehow gained him a medal that he
clearly did not deserve! We need to see that application for the
Purple Heart to determine how Kerry received this prestigious
award when he clearly did not deserve it. Did Kerry forge, shred
or alter documents and lie as early as 1969 like he did when he
returned from Vietnam? The American people have a right to see
who signed the incident reports and application for the Purple
Hearts and other medals Kerry supposedly received, all under
extremely questionable and bizarre circumstances. (See below).
In Kerry's so-called "second encounter with the enemy" Lt. Kerry
spots yet another two unarmed Sampans, and Kerry ordered his boat
to follow these unarmed Sampans into a small fishing village.
Kerry later claimed that his boat "took some sniper fire" from
the Village, but his boat was not hit, nor do any members of
Kerry's crew remember receiving that mysterious sniper fire, and
of course the village later turned out to be a friendly village
which housed several of our allies - members of the South
Vietnamese Army. Regardless, according to Kerry, he ordered his
machine gunner, Mr. James Wasser, to open fire on the Sampans and
the village. Yet Wasser told Brinkly that the only "enemy" that
Kerry ordered him to fire upon was "an old man leading a water
buffalo."
"I am haunted by that old man's face," said Mr. Wasser. "He was
just doing his daily farming, hurting nobody, yet he got hit in
the chest with a M60 machine gun." As it turns out Lt. Kerry had
ordered his boat to fire on a "friendly" village which also
contained a garrison of ARVN soldiers, (our allies) two of which
were wounded from Kerry's recklessness and wanton aggression on a
peaceful fishing village. The dead villager's and the wounded
South Vietnamese soldiers were outraged and their families filed
complaints with the Americans . . . yet mysteriously Lt. Kerry
escaped all punishment. If any other G.I. had wantonly murdered
villagers or fired on our allies and created causalities amongst
our allies, I wonder what would have happened to him? Lt. Cally
from My Lai fame comes to mind. There is little difference
between Lt. Kerry's actions in respect to firing on friendly
villages and Lt. Cally's actions at My Lai. Yet Lt. Cally was
court-martialed and Lt. Kerry received a medal! Someone very high
up in politics was clearly watching over Lt. Kerry.
The world remembers the My Lai massacre in which two U.S. Army
officers were court-martialed for ordering or not preventing
their men to kill civilians. Why was Lt. Kerry's massacre of
innocent fishermen and our own allies covered up - not once but
twice? Especially when we have an first hand account of an
obvious wanton murder by Kerry, as told and witnessed by one of
his own men! As far as I know there is no statute of limitations
for murder - and this issue must be resolved prior to Hanoi John
Kerry running for our highest office. The American people simply
cannot elect a wanton murderer to the Presidency of the United
States. Such a travesty of justice would go down in our history
as our biggest mistake, and we would become reviled and hated by
the rest of the honorable world. Un prosecuted murderers simply
should not have any place in our Government, not to mention
becoming the commander in chief of our military!
It is clear that John Kerry knew that to be successful in
politics he first had to become a "War Hero." Kerry was desperate
for notoriety, and he was using the Vietnam war and his political
connections back in the States to achieve that notoriety. It also
appears that was his ambition and reason for going to Vietnam in
the first place. (Remember that Kerry had delivered a scathing
fulmination speech against the U.S. Military and the Vietnam war
when he graduated from Yale - then after that speech he went out
and immediately joined the Navy!) Kerry clearly had a hidden
agenda when he joined the Navy, and Hanoi Kerry seized every
opportunity during his Vietnam service to demand a medal,
regardless of how trivial the circumstances were, or how
undeserving he was to receive such an award.
As a further case in point in respect to Hanoi John Kerry's lack
of scruples, on Feb 28, 1969, Kerry claims his boat was fired
upon by a rocket-propelled grenade from shore. The grenade missed
the boat. And since Kerry was the commander of the boat, he was
able to write up his own "incident reports" about the "encounter"
with the enemy. (Kerry is also refusing to release this incident
report as well as all others that involve his "medals').
Consequently, Kerry wrote up the account in such a manner as to
make him appear as a hero. According to Kerry's incident
report-based citation, Kerry beached his boat and ordered a
charge on an enemy position and killed a VC standing a few feet
from him with a B-40 rocket launcher. Yet according to all other
accounts of his crew, the rocket launcher was an empty weapon, or
so said two of Kerry's crew members, Messrs. Mike Medeiros and
Tommy Belodeau. In 1996, Kerry's machine-gunner Mr. Tommy
Belodeau described the full incident to the Boston Globe's David
Conflictsh:
Mr. Belodeau said that he fired on the single VC with his M60
machine gun at a range of only ten feet, and cut his legs out
from under him. The wounded VC then crawled behind a hut, and
then Kerry suddenly grabbed an M16 rifle, deserted his boat and
his command, and ran behind the hut to shoot the VC who according
to Mr. Belodeau, "was near death." Of course Kerry's account was
much different. According to Kerry's account the VC (wounded
several times in the legs with M60 machine gun rounds) amazingly
got up and ran off down a trail, and ran around a bend. When
Kerry finally caught up with the speedy VC (with no legs) the VC
was pointing his (empty) B-40 Grenade launcher at him and Kerry
shot the VC dead before he could fire.
For this encounter, Lt. Kerry was awarded the Silver Star . . .
for shooting a single wounded enemy in the back that by all real
accounts was already dead or should have been taken prisoner. It
is clear to me as a Vietnam Veteran that Hanoi John Kerry was
receiving some very special treatment during his tour of duty.
Most soldiers would have been court-martialed for shooting a
wounded prisoner, but Lt. Kerry received the Silver Star!
Even if Kerry's account is completely true since when does the
Navy award a Silver Star for shooting a single unarmed enemy! If
Kerry had shot a single armed enemy, I suspect he would have been
awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor! Can you imagine how
many soldiers in Vietnam, just during the Tet offensive, shot
enemy soldiers that were armed and shooting at them? Try
thousands - and did they all get the Silver Star for doing what
was basically their job to do? No, of course not. But Kerry
received the Silver Star for shooting a solitary, critically
wounded, VC that "was near death?" The political fix was
obviously alive and well in regards to Lt. John Kerry.
But Kerry's shame does continue; On March 13, 1969, Lt. Kerry
reached down off his boat and pulled another officer out the
water after the boat carrying the swimming officer had hit a
mine. For that amazing display of "valor" Lt. Kerry was awarded
the "Bronze Star" - if Bronze Stars were awarded to every Soldier
that pulled another out of a river or a rice paddy, everyone that
went to Vietnam would have received a Bronze Star!
However, the mine that hit the other boat did create a "water
wake" in the river that caused Lt. Kerry to bump his arm against
a bulkhead on his own boat, which produced a small bruise on his
arm . . . and yep, you guessed it, Lt. Kerry put in for yet
another "Purple Heart" for that bruise, and he got it! Now Lt.
Kerry has two "Purple Hearts," one "Silver Star" and one "Bronze
Star." His undeserved medal collection is growing by leaps and
bounds. But Kerry still was not through:
Kerry's boat had been on a mission ferrying Special Forces
personnel. Kerry spotted another village (which turned out to be
also friendly of course) and he inexplicably ordered his boat to
open fire on the village along with the Special Forces personnel
that were passengers on his boat. However, Kerry once again
mistook our allies, which were South Vietnamese soldiers, as the
enemy. The South Vietnamese troops were busy interrogating some
Women and Children from the friendly village, and after the first
barrage of fire Kerry had ordered at least ten of the Women and
Children were consequently killed. Then after Lt. Kerry had
ordered his boat to fire on the friendly village, Kerry, once
again, abandoned his boat (against specific orders not to do that
again) and ran into the friendly village shooting everything that
moved and throwing grenades into civilian hooches. When one of
the South Vietnamese soldiers (our allies) threw a grenade to
defend himself into a hut which was a storeroom for rice, some of
the rice grains and bits of metal hit Lt. Kerry in the buttocks
and leg. That meant Kerry had just earned his third "Purple
Heart." (I should also mention that none of the scratches Kerry
received which resulted in a "Purple Heart" medal ever cost Lt.
Kerry a single day of lost duty except the rice grains he
received in the ass while he was busy murdering civilians, and
that "wound" cost Kerry a total of two whole days of off duty).
Lt. Kerry then parlayed his three "Purple Hearts" into an early
return to the states as the then Navy regulations allowed for an
early return to the States for any sailor that was awarded three
or more Purple Hearts. All in all, Lt. Kerry spent about four
months in Vietnam on the swift boats.
To sum up Lt. Kerry's Vietnam service, all one needs to do is
repeat what Assistant Secretary of Defense and Professor W. Scott
Thompson said Admiral Zumwalt told him about Lt. John Kerry: Mr.
Thompson said, "Adm. Elmo Zumwalt told me that young Kerry had
created great problems for him and the other top brass by killing
so many noncombatant civilians and going after other nonmilitary
targets, that 'We had to virtually straitjacket him (Kerry) to
keep him under control,' Admiral Zumwalt said.
Even General George S. Patton III (son of the famous WWII
General) said; "John Kerry has given aid and comfort to the
enemy." In referring what Lt. Kerry did during and after the
Vietnam war.
In summary, John Kerry received his first Purple Heart for a
scratch that was not even caused by any type of enemy fire, and
was probably caused by a self-inflicted wound. He received his
second Purple Heart due to a wave in the river rocking his boat
and bumping his arm slightly against a bulkhead, thereby causing
a small bruise on his arm. He received his third Purple Heart for
getting hit in the ass from some flying rice grains when he was
busy murdering defenseless civilians. Kerry received his "Silver
Star" for firing on a friendly village, killing old men farming
and walking water buffalos, wounding two allied soldiers, and
murdering a wounded Viet Cong soldier that should have been taken
prisoner. Kerry received a Bronze Star during an attack on yet
another friendly village, after wantonly helping to murder not
less than ten innocent women and children, and while racing
through the friendly village shooting and blowing up everything
in sight.
In conclusion it should be clear to all that Hanoi John Kerry is
not a "war hero" - a "war criminal" perhaps, but certainly not a
"war hero."
Then after Hanoi John Kerry returned to the USA from his four
months in Vietnam, he disgraced his medals by throwing them away
in the Capitol building pond, and told Congress that all Vietnam
Vets were "Rapists and Murderers." Kerry also lied to Congress
under oath, and fabricated stories from Veterans he named. Yet
when those so-called "Veterans" Kerry named were later
interviewed by the U.S. Navy and FBI, they claimed they never
said anything near what Kerry claimed they said, and further,
many of the "Veteran's" Kerry named turned out not to be Veteran'
s at all but were in truth working for Hanoi Jane Fonda's and the
KGB's Coffee House organization that she and Kerry used to try
and persuade American service personnel to desert.
During this same period John Kerry denied attending a VVAW (a
Jane Fonda sponsored anti-American New Left group that Kerry
helped create) meeting in which the assassination of key
anti-Communist senators was discussed and planned. Kerry claimed
he had resigned from the VVAW long before that seditious meeting,
but when the FBI surveillance team placed Kerry squarely at the
meeting, suddenly, John Kerry said "I have no recollection of the
meeting, but I might have been there." Someone should tell ol
John Kerry that conspiring to murder U.S. Senators is not
something that is easy to forget. Kerry seems to suffer from
"selective amnesia" quite a bit. Can you imagine this unethical
loony tune with his finger on America's nuclear button? Hanoi
John Kerry has proved he is not only impulsive and reckless
during stressful situations, but also he is incapable to follow
even the most basic of instructions. And this clown is the best
choice the Democratic party could make for the position of our
Commander in Chief?
Since when does the American electorate elect an Un prosecuted
murderer to the Presidency of the United States? As a case in
point former president of Mexico Luis Echeverria was indicted on
July 23, 2004 for involvement in the murders of protesters that
were attacked by Mexican troops on June 10, 1971. If Mexico can
prosecute their leaders for murders and atrocities that were
commited 33 years ago, and they should, then why ares the United
States Federal Prosecutors ignoring all of the evidence that John
Kerry commited worse or at least equal murders during the same
period? If Kerry deceives enough people to get elected, will the
indictments for murder come later - against a sitting President
of the United States?
Please understand that my articles on John Kerry are not
politically motivated. I voted for Al Gore in the last
presidential election, and I believe the Democratic party could
have selected any number of candidates that would have been
acceptable to the American people. Yet picking John Kerry is not
only a tremendous blunder by the Democrats, it is a travesty of
justice. John Kerry should be indicted for murder, not chosen as
the best candidate for the U.S. Presidency the Democratic party
has to offer! Based upon my exhaustive research on Kerry
everything I have presented in this article I believe to be true.
I started and completed by research without malice, and I was
flabbergasted at what I found. I invite John Kerry or his
campaign to refute anything I have said in this article with any
documents that contradict the testimony of his Commanding
officer, the Navy Doctor, or the accounts of his own crew
members. I should also mention that John Kerry is using a
photograph of him along with several Vietnam veterans that was
taken during the Vietnam war in his campaign advertisements. The
connotation of Kerry's advertisement is that all those men in the
said photograph support Kerry - but when interviewed 85% of the
men in the photograph said they would vote for President Bush and
that Kerry is not capable to become our Commander in Chief! Also
since I first published this article, an organization of Swift
Boat commanders has come forward also claiming they do not
support John Kerry, as his performance on the Swift Boats
indicated to them Kerry was not stable enough to become the
Commander in Chief of our Military. Moreover, what I have
presented in this article reflects only on what John Kerry did
during his service in Vietnam. Although it is astonishing how
many crimes Kerry commited in Vietnam and how well he covered
them up by claiming medals he did not deserve, all that is but a
mere pittance in comparison to what John Kerry did to his country
and his fellow veterans after he returned from Vietnam. I will
present the outrageous transgressions Kerry committed against the
American people and his fellow veterans after he returned from
Vietnam in subsequent articles.
As an addendum to the above article, I have found Kerry's own
account of the events leading up to him receiving his first
Purple Heart medal. You will find by Kerry's own testimony he
validates many key points in the above article"
HANOI KERRY'S OWN PURPLE HEART ACCOUNT
Kerry:
"It was a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat, but
it was my first, and that made it very exciting," [Kerry said].
"Three of us, two enlisted men and myself, had stayed up all
night in a Boston Whaler [a foam-filled-fiberglass boat]
patrolling the shore off a Viet Cong-infested peninsula north of
Cam Ranh . . . Most of the night had been spent being scared
shitless by fisherman whom we would suddenly creep up on in the
darkness. Once, one of the sailors was so startled by two men who
surprised us as we came around a corner ten yards from the shore
that he actually pulled the trigger on his machine gun.
Fortunately for the two men, he had forgotten to switch off the
safety . . ."
Doug Says: It is clear that Kerry did not have control of his
men, and they were so frightened they were ready to shoot at
anything that moved, without first determining whether their
target was friend or foe. Kerry was some commander.
Kerry continues:
"As it turned out, the two men really were just a pair of
innocent fisherman who didn't know where one zone began and the
other ended. Their papers were perfectly in order, if their
night's fishing over. The fear was that they were VC. Allowing
them to continue might have compromised the mission. For the next
four hours Kerry's Boston Whaler, using paddles, brought
boatloads of fisherman they found in sampans, all operating in a
curfew zone, back to the Swift. It was tiring work. "We deposited
them with the Swift boat that remained out in the deep water to
give us cover," Kerry continued. "Then, very early in the
morning, around 2:00 or 3:00, while it was still dark, we
proceeded up the tiny inlet between the island and the peninsula
to the point designated as our objective. The jungle closed in on
us on both sides. It was scary as hell. You could hear yourself
breathing. We were almost touching the shore. Suddenly, through
the magnified moonlight of the infrared 'starlight scope,' I
watched, mesmerized, as a group of sampans glided in toward the
shore. We had been briefed that this was a favorite crossing area
for VC trafficking contraband."
With its motor turned off, Kerry paddled the Boston Whaler out of
the inlet into the beginning of the bay. Simultaneously the
Vietnamese pulled their sampans up onto the beach and began to
unload something; he couldn't tell what, so he decided to
illuminate the proceedings with a flare. The entire sky seemed to
explode into daylight. The men from the sampans bolted erect,
stiff with shock for only an instant before they sprang for cover
like a herd of panicked gazelles Kerry had once seen on TV's Wild
Kingdom. "We opened fire," he went on. "The light from the flares
started to fade, the air was full of explosions. My -16 jammed,
and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, a stinging
piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like
hell. By this time one of the sailors had started the engine and
we ran by the beach, strafing it. Then it was quiet.
"We stayed quiet and low because we did not want to illuminate
ourselves at that point," Kerry explained. "In the dead of night,
without any knowledge of what kind of force was there, we were
not all about to go crawling on the beach to get our asses shot
off. We were unprotected; we didn't have ammunition, we didn't
have cover, we just weren't prepared for that . . . So we first
shot the sampans so that they were destroyed and whatever was in
them was destroyed." Then their cover boat warned of a possible
VC ambush in the small channel they had to exit through, and
Kerry and company departed the area."
Doug Says: Kerry said that he fired a flare and only saw Sampans.
The owners of the Sampans did not have weapons, nor did they fire
at Kerry or at his men. Yet Kerry ordered his men to open fire on
the innocent fishermen without first determining whether they
were friend or foe. Since the fishermen never fired back, how did
Hanoi John Kerry receive his "stinging wound" from hostile fire?
Kerry said the men on the Sampans bolted for cover, and only his
men "opened fire." It is clear the "wound" Hanoi Kerry received
was most likely self-inflicted as the Navy doctor that looked at
the tiny scratch said it was caused by a tiny sliver of metal and
the wound did not warrant any medical treatment. Moreover, Kerry
was not in a metal boat at the time he claimed he received the
wound, nor did he receive any enemy fire, nor did any of this men
see Kerry receive any kind of a wound, and further, and what is
the most damning, Kerry never announced nor even mentioned that
he was hit to any of his crew, even by his own account above!
Moreover, Navy regulations require that any wound that qualifies
for a Purple Heart must (1) be severe enough to be treated by a
Doctor. Kerry's wound was not treated. And (2) that the immediate
commander of the wounded sailor recommend the recipient of the
wound be awarded the medal. Kerry's commander at the time, Mr.
Grant Hibbard, has come forward in Florida and said he never
authorized nor recommended Kerry for the purple heart medal for
the above action. Moreover, firing on fishing Sampans without
first determining whether they were friend or foe does warrant
some type of action by Kerry's commanding officer . . . usually a
court martial.
Murdering innocent civilians is a war crime. But instead of being
court-martialed for his crime, Kerry received a medal! How did he
receive that medal when everything he did was against Navy
regulations and he clearly did not deserve the Purple Heart?
Although Kerry is eager to paint his Vietnam service into his
campaign advertisements, and he loves to tell war stories, the
truth about Kerry's "medals" is something Kerry will NOT talk
about!
Doug Grant (Tm)
"abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>
news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> >
> > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> >
> > It is easy to prove who is lying,
>
> Sure - we can look at the historical record (which favors
Kerry), the
> eyewitnesses who were closest to the action (which all favor
Kerry) verses
> the "swifters" and see who's telling the truth and who's
lying - the
> swifters are lying.
Doug Says: You really should read the post before you reply ABA.
The "eyewitnesses" on Kerry's boat were not watching Kerry, they
were watching the shoreline and firing into it. The boats that
were along side Kerry's boat were in a much better position to
determine what Kerry was doing. Further, NONE of the documents
favor's Kerry's account - even Kerry's own diary contradicts his
story.
>
> >the 65 officers and men of the
> > Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations)
>
> LOL
> Except they are all bought and paid for and none of them served
with Kerry.
>
> You lose.
Doug Says: Duh, dummy, none of the Swift Boaters are bought and
paid for by anyone, and 65 of them served with Kerry. Even the
proceeds from the book "Unfit for Command" are being given to
charity. None of the Swiftees are running for election, and many
of them were Democrats or voted for Al Gore. Even the author of
the book Mr. O'Neil voted for Gore in the last election. So what
motive do they have to lie about John Kerry? Kerry's own
account of his missions and his crew's accounts that were
provided to David Brinkly years ago conflict with what Kerry is
saying now. Obviously, it is John Kerry that is doing all the
lying.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
DGVREIMAN
Kerry:
Kerry continues:
Doug Grant (Tm)
"Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
news:WArWc.15064$v86....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> "abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >
news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
> >
> > Sure - we can look at the historical record (which favors
Kerry), the
> > eyewitnesses who were closest to the action (which all favor
Kerry) verses
> > the "swifters" and see who's telling the truth and who's
lying - the
> > swifters are lying.
>
> Let's just look at Kerry's RECENT ADMISSIONS in light of the
> Swiftvets devulging the truth about Kerry's lies:
>
> So far, Kerry-0=SwiftVets-2 on decided points.
>
> 1) "Christmas in Cambodia" (four changes to Kerry's story
already)
>
> 2) "The other boats fled, I went back alone" (Sandusky, Kerry's
> pilot outed him on this one Thursday (8/19/04) by EXPLAINING
> WHY Kerry's boat left while the others were working to save the
> 3-boat)
>
> Sandusky explained "why" Kerry's boat did something he
> had long accused falsely the other boats of doing (i.e.,
FLEEING.)
>
> Last week, Kerry was forced to revise his decades-long
contention he
> was on a secret mission in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968.
>
> Why Kerry changed the story FOUR TIMES defies explanation.
>
> Kerry closed the Democratic National Convention with a story in
> which he claimed that five swiftboats fled on March 13,
> 1969, after a mine explosion and only he came back to rescue
Lt.
> James Rassman. His campaign now is admitting that he fled and
the
> rest stayed, before he later returned for Rassman.
Doug Says: Another point to add is the Kerry Veteran
spokesperson (Mr. Hurley) is now refusing to verify that Kerry
was under hostile fire during his first Purple Heart scratch.
Kerry originally said he received that scratch from the enemy,
but all accounts (even accounts by his own crew) say they never
took any enemy fire that night. Kerry has been caught in yet
another lie. How many is that now? I believe everyone should
zero in on Kerry's first purple heart and ask John Kerry to sign
form 180 so that we can all see the incident reports he authored
that somehow, against regulations, gained him the purple heart
for an obvious self-inflicted wound.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
DGVREIMAN
"DDB" <IHat...@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:082dncM_ZuZ...@comcast.com...
>
> "abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >
news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
> >
> > Sure - we can look at the historical record (which favors
Kerry), the
> > eyewitnesses who were closest to the action (which all favor
Kerry) verses
> > the "swifters" and see who's telling the truth and who's
lying - the
> > swifters are lying.
>
fact as
> follows:
>
> 1. Kerry lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas eve in 1968.
He made the
> comment as a slap at Nixon but was too weak minded to figure
out that Nixon
> was not in office Christmas Eve 1968, in fact nixon wasn't
president until
> january 1969. Let alone the fact that the boarders were well
gaurded and
> signage was available to warn against accidentaly entering into
Cambodia. He
> lied.
>
> 2. His first Purple heart was issued on Dec 2nd 1968 for wounds
he claimed
> to have received in battle. Yet his own journals, used by the
author of his
> biography Tour of Duty include a passgae written on Dec 11th
by kerry
> describing his crew as coocky because they had never been fired
on yet.
> Seems odd that Kerry could receive a pruple heart for action on
Dec 2nd and
> yet he and his crew bee coocky on Dec 11th because they had
never been fired
> on.
DGVREIMAN
"patriot" <ever...@quickpony.com> wrote in message
news:Ev6dncc0Ppm...@comcast.com...
> > > > Swift Boats (who have no universal political
affiliations)
> > >
> > > Except they are all bought and paid for and none of them
served with
> > Kerry.
> > >
> > > You lose.
> > >
> > >
John Leyman
> Sec. of the Navy in the 80s. Kerry big event was 1968.
Something fishy
> here!!
Doug Says: Interesting. Where did you find Mr. Leyman's
signature? Could it be that John Kerry obtained the Bronze Star
through political maneuvering long after the war was over? It is
not uncommon for politicians to request medals long after the war
if their own political hacks are in office.
Doug Grant (Tm)
> >
>
>
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
It is easy to prove who is lying, the 65 officers and men of the
from his fellow officers. (One of those reenactments was shown at
the Democratic Convention and was misrepresented as a real
account and not a Hollywood version. But when the Swift Boat
members started to talk about Kerry's film, then Kerry admitted
his "version" was akin to a Michael Moore production). So if Mr.
Kerry will distort the filming of reenactments of missions in
Kerry:
Kerry continues:
Doug Grant (Tm)
> "DDB" <IHat...@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
"Bill" <wm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:qttWc.504252$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Boy isn't this earth shattering stuff!!! Come on, minor errors
like this (
> if they occurred ) are no the basis for not voting for someone.
>
> --
> Bill
> >
> >
Doug Says: Since when is filing false reports to obtain
undeserved medals "a minor error?" Such actions speak volumes
about John Kerry's character - or lack thereof.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
from his fellow officers. (One of those reinactments was shown at
the Democratic Convention and was misrepresented as a real
account and not a Hollywood version. But when the Swift Boat
members started to talk about Kerry's film, then Kerry admitted
his "version" was akin to a Michael Moore production). So if Mr.
Kerry will distort the filming of reinactments of missions in
Kerry:
Kerry continues:
Doug Grant (Tm)
"Thomas Curmudgeon" <e...@spam.yum> wrote in message
news:U3uWc.130122$sh.24321@fed1read06...
> DGVREIMAN wrote:
>
> > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> >
> > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> >
> > It is easy to prove who is lying, the 65 officers and men of
the
> > Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations) or
the
> > so-called "Veteran" spokesperson for John Kerry. The
spokesperson
> > that is speaking for Mr. Kerry admits (1) he never rode on a
> > Swift Boat in his life, and (2) never served with John Kerry,
>
>
> Gee Doug, you wrote all that crap?
>
> All the first hand accounts support Kerry. I stopped reading at
the
> first lie. That's your lie, Dougie, the lying liar.
Doug Says: Quite the contrary. All of the first hand accounts
prove John Kerry is lying. If you would like to be specific
about what "first hand accounts" you are referencing, I will be
glad to address them. Kerry's crew was shooting at the shore
line, not watching Kerry. The other boats were the ones that
stopped and started picking up survivors from the water while
John Kerry took off running away. That is a first hand account.
Another first hand account is Kerry's crew admitting they were
never under enemy fire the night Kerry claimed the purple heart
for a tiny scratch. That means that scratch was self inflicted.
So now we have two so-called Democrat Vietnam heroes with
self-inflicted wounds, Max Cleland and John Kerry.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
Kerry:
Kerry continues:
Doug Grant (Tm)
"John Kerry, Horse's Ass" <LiarNu...@DNC.org> wrote in
message
news:KauWc.1766$Y%3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Thomas Curmudgeon" <e...@spam.yum> wrote in message
> news:U3uWc.130122$sh.24321@fed1read06...
> > DGVREIMAN wrote:
> >
> > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying, the 65 officers and men
of the
> > > Swift Boats (who have no universal political affiliations)
or the
> > > so-called "Veteran" spokesperson for John Kerry. The
spokesperson
> > > that is speaking for Mr. Kerry admits (1) he never rode on
a
> > > Swift Boat in his life, and (2) never served with John
Kerry,
> >
> >
> > Gee Doug, you wrote all that crap?
> >
> > All the first hand accounts support Kerry.
>
>
> Actually, none of them support Kerry, Tommy. You need to go
start READING
> some of the accounts of Kerry's shenanigans and lies!
Doug Says: So far there are 265 Veterans that say Kerry is
lying, and eight that do not. I am not sure about the eight
because Kerry is keeping his crew off camera. Kerry keeps
sending someone by the name of Mr. Hurley out to speak on his
behalf, but Hurley admits he never served with Kerry? I would
like to hear from the eight that allegedly stand with Kerry on
this issue directly. Why is Kerry hiding them from the press?
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
DGVREIMAN
news:<T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >
news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > >
> > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > >
> > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
>
obscuring the
> real question about the "ambush", a question they seem unable
to
> answer. There was a hail of gunfire from the shore of the river
which
> was 50 to 150 feet away. (That is half the length of a football
field,
> or less.) The boat is large (50 feet in length) There were no
holes in
> Kerry's boat. It is unbelievable that anyone can miss all of
his shots
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
It is easy to prove who is lying, the 65 officers and men of the
Kerry:
Kerry continues:
Doug Grant (Tm)
"Tom Betz" <spamme...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:Xns954ED2217B89Eg...@166.84.1.69...
> Quoth "DDB" <IHat...@Fakecomcast.net> in
> news:082dncM_ZuZ...@comcast.com:
>
> > 1. Kerry lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas eve in
> > 1968.
>
> <http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4939470.html>
>
> --
> Where was AWOL George W. Bush?
> <
> Any government will waste money.
> Only the worst waste lives.
Doug Says: Duh, the false allegation against President Bush in
respect to being AWOL has been debunked by the NY Times, USA
Today, and the Boston Globe. The Guard does not require drills
to be contiguous and the Guard required a total of 50 drills to
obtain an honorable discharge - President Bush attended a total
of 56 drills. So even if President Bush took time off to
campaign for a friend, since the Guard does not require that all
drills be contiguous, there is no possible way President Bush
could have been classified as AWOL - so cut the bull - this is
old news.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
from his fellow officers. (One of those reenactments was shown at
the Democratic Convention and was misrepresented as a real
account and not a Hollywood version. But when the Swift Boat
members started to talk about Kerry's film, then Kerry admitted
his "version" was akin to a Michael Moore production). So if Mr.
Kerry will distort the filming of reenactments of missions in
Kerry:
Kerry continues:
Doug Grant (Tm)
"John Agosta" <j_agosta@remove_wideopenwest.kom> wrote in message
news:H7idnSSFe9P...@wideopenwest.com...
>
> "Dave Cook" <sag...@surfbest.net> wrote in message
> news:c687e307.04082...@posting.google.com...
> > "abracadabra" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<T%qWc.9151$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > > "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > >
news:XLqWc.503376$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > > SWIFT BOAT ACCUSATIONS
> > > >
> > > > © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
> > > >
> > > > It is easy to prove who is lying,
> >
> > Is it? I don't know about that. The Kerry supporters are
obscuring the
> > real question about the "ambush", a question they seem unable
to
> > answer. There was a hail of gunfire from the shore of the
river which
> > was 50 to 150 feet away. (That is half the length of a
football field,
> > or less.) The boat is large (50 feet in length) There were no
holes in
> > Kerry's boat. It is unbelievable that anyone can miss all of
his shots
> > at that range. The only logical answer is that there was no
shooting
> > from the shore. Kerry and Rassmann were mistaking the firing
of the
> > Swift Boat Guns as being from the enemy. If you use Michael
Moore's
> > definition of lying, then it would be Kerry, but heroics
depend on
> > what you think the situation is.
> >
>
> Yeah. There's no holes in Kerry's boat.
> Lots of holes in Bush's nose.
>
> >
> GWB is a loser.
> There's two kinds of people that support this dolt.
> Millionaires and morons.
> Which crowd do you belont to?
Doug Says: There is another kind of people that support
President Bush, those that like to hear the truth. I am one of
them. You obviously are not.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
>
>
John Agosta
"DGVREIMAN" <DGVR...@COMCAST.NET> wrote in message
news:wI6dnSfGdeB...@comcast.com...
Doug, you don't know what 'truth' means.
John Agosta
"Herb Martin" <ne...@LearnQuick.com> wrote in message
Well, he has something in common with GWB after all !
vonroach
wrote:
>I'm only interested in the truth about
>Kerry
Then you might be interested that the gunner who served on Kerry's
swift boat has stated that Kerry's story is all one big lie. The
`wounds', the hostile fire, the Cambodian trip, all a product of
Kerry's ambitious imaginations without even a word of truth. It was a
joke among his crew that he was keeping a diary for later political
exploitation.
John Agosta
"vonroach" <hadr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:rrvsi092offh7cp1a...@4ax.com...
Then why don't you direct you bitch to the US Navy
who seem to feel different about this than you do ?
Shut up.
Stop showing us what an ass you are.
We know already.
Hyperventilating Johnny
"John Agosta" <j_agosta@remove_wideopenwest.kom> wrote in message
It's much simpler to just take these testimonies of Kerry's boatmates
directly to the American people, right before the election, John.
> Shut up.
No. Sorry to be the one to have to break the news to you Democrat Party
fascists, but we're not going to allow you to trample all over our Freedom
of Speech, pal.
So go F*CK yourself, you pathetic Kerry Follower.
John Agosta
Nothing much.
----------------------
JA says:
A top lawyer for GWB's election campaign resigned yesterday after
acknowledging that he also advised the Swift Boat for Vetrans'
anti-Kerry group.
This, after USAF Colonel (ret) had retired as an adviser to a Bush
campaign's
vetran organization.
This, after SBVFT has benefited from wealthy Texas republican and GOP
political operatives.
Is this a pattern? Is this all coincedental ?
Is this a harmonic convergence ?
One guy, Bob Perry, a long-time pal of Carl Rove has personally given
SBVFT $200,000.00 stonies.
Two Hundred Grand. That's...... "a lot."
Over time, Perry has given more than $5,000,000.00 to Reublican efforts.
That's Five_Million_Dollars.
Hmmm......
Even the most hard-core Bush supporter has to agree that 5 Million'doesn't
get given away unless some form of 'favor' is given in return.
Perry is a "home builder." From Texas. I'm sure that 5 Million got him
past some permits and plans commission with ease.....
For DouglASS, look this up yourself.
I don't do your homework.
For Stan, and Herb, here is a link.
http://www.dispatch.com/print_template.php?story=dispatch/2004/08/26/20040826-A1-05.html
For Von Roach, just go to a quite corner and take Cheney's advice....
John Agosta
"Hyperventilating Johnny" <Big...@kerry.com> wrote in message
news:wOvXc.1306$W_5....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Dick Cheney is proud of you.
You're such a jerk.
Really, a shining example for everything that's wrong with this country.
Two more months to enjoy saying "moo," Rochie. Enjoy it while it lasts....
Harlow
I think Ernest Borgnine is cognate with Ragnar Hairybreeks,
who was captured by King Aella of Northumbria and put to
death by being thrown into a pit of adders (not wolves, alas).
Ragnar's sons invaded Northumbria and put Aella to death, if
you can believe Saxo Grammaticus.
So I guess Fort la Latte was supposed to be Bamborough,
which was supposed to be pretty strong, motte and bailey or no...
Dr. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, psychiatrist and prolific author
of the ground- breaking book, On Death and Dying, died
Tuesday evening, August 24, 2004, in Scottsdale, Arizona of
natural causes. She was surrounded by her family and close
friends. She was 78.
"Every moment of her life was devoted to dying patients and
what they were going through," noted long-time friend Mwalimu
Imara, who has been close to her since the beginning of her
research. "Her prolonged illness following several strokes
only made her even more determined to speak up for the rights
of the terminally ill."
Tributes began pouring in almost immediately from people
around the world who have been stirred by Dr. Kübler-Ross'
teachings. According to her longtime publishing agent Barbara
Hogensen, Kübler-Ross authored more than 20 books, many of
which have been translated into more than twenty-eight
languages. Titles include: To Live Until We Say Good-Bye,
On Children and Death, AIDS: The Ultimate Challenge, and her
autobiography, The Wheel of Life. Her most recent book,
Real Taste of Life, was a photographic journal produced in
collaboration with her son, Kenneth, a travel photographer,
who helped care for her both personally and professionally
since she officially retired to Arizona in 1995. She had
recently finished drafting her final book, On Grief and
Grieving, with longtime collaborator and friend, David Kessler.
Dr. Kübler-Ross was born as one of triplet sisters in Zurich,
Switzerland, on July 8, 1926. Always spirited, she decided
upon a medical career early in her childhood against the wishes
of her father. The focus of her work in death and dying
crystallized in 1945. She was a member of the International
Voluntary Service for Peace who helped in ravaged communities
after World War II. In the concentration camp, Maidanek, carved
into the walls where prisoners spent their final hours, she
discovered the symbolic butterflies which would become her
symbol of the beautiful transformation that she believed
occurred at the time of death.
After graduating from medical school at the University of
Zurich, where she met future husband and fellow medical
student Emanuel "Manny" Robert Ross, she came to the United
States in 1958. She worked in major hospitals in New York,
Colorado, and Chicago, and she was appalled by the standard
treatment of dying patients." They were shunned and abused;
nobody was honest with them," she said. Unlike her colleagues,
she made it a point to sit with terminal patients, listening
as they poured out their hearts to her. While simultaneously
raising two small children, she began giving lectures
featuring dying patients who talked about their most intimate
dying experiences. "My goal was to break through the layer of
professional denial that prohibited patients from airing
their inner-most concerns," she wrote.
Her bestselling first book, On Death and Dying, 1969, made
her an internationally-renowned author. Even today, her
trail-blazing book is required reading in most major medical,
nursing, and psychology programs. A 1969 Life Magazine article
outlining her work gave further mainstream credibility and
awareness to this new way of dealing with dying patients,
although her conclusions were quite revolutionary at the time.
"People today find it hard to believe that her now
commonly-accepted conclusions were quite revolutionary at the
time," said her sister, Eva Bacher. "She was always very proud
that her work helped to bring the hospice movement into the
mainstream in the United States."
Throughout the 1970's, Dr. Kübler-Ross led hundreds of workshops
and spoke to standing-room-only crowds throughout the world.
The "five psychological stages of dying" (denial, anger, bargaining,
depression and finally acceptance) outlined in her book became
accepted as common knowledge throughout the world. She continued
to both learn and teach in many important medical facilities and
hospitals as her influence grew.
She assumed the Presidency of the Elisabeth Kübler-Ross Center
and the Shanti Nilaya Growth and Healing Center in the late
1970's, a base from which she gave "Life, Death and Transition"
workshops worldwide. She also continued her personal interest
in mysticism, the afterlife, and other less commonly-accepted
forms of therapy. In the 1980's, she purchased a 300-acre farm
in Head Waters, Virginia, to serve as a healing and workshop
center, and called it Healing Waters. "Always controversial,
she turned her focus at the time into helping babies born with
AIDS when nobody else wanted anything to do with them," said
Frances Leuthy, who was her assistant and ran the Virginia
center. She officially retired to Arizona in 1995, after a
series of serious strokes debilitated her body, and a fire,
which destroyed her house and all of her belongings. She left
her farm behind for a fresh start near to son, Kenneth.
Even in retirement, she continued to receive hundreds of
visitors from around the world, including celebrities such
as Mohammed Ali, Susan Sarandon, and Lady Sarah Ferguson.
The March 29, 1999 issue of Time Magazine named her one of
"The Century's Greatest Minds" in a summary of the 100
greatest scientists and thinkers of the century.
Throughout the span of her life, she continued to encourage
students with similar interests, and regularly contributed
forwards, chapters, and sections to numerous other authors'
books regarding death, dying, and grief. She was the recipient
of more than 20 honorary degrees from colleges and universities
across the country. She participated in a number of advisory
boards, committees and societies, and was one of the founders
of the American Holistic Medical Association.
Always outspoken, her work in challenging the medical profession
to change its view of dying patients brought about great change
and advanced many important concepts such as living wills, home
health care, and helping patients to die with dignity and respect.
"She always was, and will continue to be, a strong voice for the
rights of terminally ill patients," noted Dr. Gregg Furth,
New York Jungian psychologist, a close family friend and supporter.
In the final years of her life, she looked forward to her own
quick "transition" and tried to deal with the frustration of
helping thousands of people to accept their own death, and yet
being unable to direct her own. Never fearing death, she wanted
only to follow what she believed, "Life doesn't end when you die.
It starts." She is survived by son Kenneth Lawrence, a
photographer in Scottsdale, Arizona; daughter Barbara Lee
Rothweiler, a clinical psychologist in Wausau, Wisconsin, (husband,
Jeffrey); granddaughters Sylvia and Emma; and sister Eva. She is
preceded in death by former husband Manny; brother, Ernst; and
sister, Erika.
Public services will be held on Saturday, September 4th, at
Scottsdale Bible Church, 7601 E. Shea Blvd., 3PM in Scottsdale,
Arizona. The burial will be the next morning, Sunday, Sept. 5th,
10am, Paradise memorial Gardens, 9300 East Shea Blvd., Scottsdale,
AZ. (RSVP requested) In lieu of flowers, the family requests that
donations be made to those organizations listed on this website.
Once saying of her impending death, "I am like a plane that has
left the gate and not taken off. I would rather go back to the
gate or fly away."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On July 31st, the film "Dem Tod ins Gesicht sehen" will start in
Germany - in Berlin (alone with 5 copies) Hannover, Hamburg,
Munich and Freiburg - later it will be seen in Cologne and many
other German cities. For specific dates and more information please
go to: www.kuebler-ross.de
Harlow
> There have been 1,104 coalition deaths, 973 Americans,
> 65 Britons, six Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch,
> one Estonian, one Hungarian, 19 Italians, one Latvian,
> 10 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards,
> two Thai and eight Ukrainians, in the war in Iraq
> as of August 26, 2004
> http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/
>
> The Swift Truth
> By Lowell Ponte
> FrontPageMagazine.com | August 26, 2004
> http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14790
O'Neill was Chuck Colson's man for Nixon. Colson (born again)
later apologized to Kerry for all the dirty tricks.
"My High School Friend John O'Neill and the Swiftboat Attack"
CLICK--> http://www.unknowncountry.com/mindframe/opinion/
**************************************
> > If y'all are cozy with a schizophrenic administration
> > run by an 'End-Times' born again JesusFreak suffering
> > from recurring dry-drunks, whose cabinet is in neurotic
> > flux, with a fragile planet on the verge of freaking
> > out multi-generationally - ad nauseum - then by all
> > means Vote Accordingly!
> > Knock yourselves out...
> > http://www.markswatson.com/skulls2.jpg
God Bless Texas wrote: *
<> Gregor Samsa wrote:
"Plaintiff had seven dates, (which became seven lovers),
had told no lies, committed no crimes, gotten 2 traffic tickets,
and dated George W. Bush as a minor." -Sugar Land Police Dept.
http://ccweb.co.fort-bend.tx.us/imgcache/civil1986144-1-7.pdf
"Dead Woman Who Accused Bush of Rape
'Margie Schoedinger' dies as a result
of a gunshot wound to the head"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Margie+Schoedinger
Margie Schoedinger, the woman who allegedly filed a lawsuit against
George W. Bush in December 2002, claiming that she had been raped, has
died of a gunshot wound to the head, registered officially as "suicide".
The allegations were serious: the law suit apparently filed against
George W. Bush in the County Civil Court in Fort Bend County, Texas,
on 2nd December 2002, claimed that George Bush, the former Governor
of Texas and current President of the United States of America, had
committed "individual sex crimes" against her and her husband.
Margie Schoedinger further stated that after the claim,
she had been harassed, that her bank account had been interfered with,
that she had been threatened and beaten. She claimed 1 million USD in
actual damages plus 49 million USD in punitive damages and emotional
stress caused by the alleged incidents.
Court documents filed on December 4th 2002 mention Bush, giving him 20
days to respond or appear in a court in Fort Bend. These papers were
initialed by Fort Bend County Deputy Clerk, Becky Kasper. However, due
to the ambiguous nature of the claims, which have never been
substantiated, it is unclear whether the President of the USA was
served with the suit.
Whatever the case, Margie Schoedinger is dead. At 38 years of age,
she died on Monday 22nd September 2003. The Harris Country Examiner's
Office states "gunshot wound to the head" and "suicide".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Margie+Schoedinger
The Strange Death of the Woman Who Filed a Rape Lawsuit Against Bush
By Jackson Thoreau
Early one Saturday afternoon in July 2003, I made a simple phone
call to Margie Schoedinger, a Texas woman who filed a rape lawsuit
against George W. Bush in December 2002. I expected to leave a
message on a machine, so I was caught a little offguard when
Schoedinger answered.
She, too, sounded somewhat surprised I had called, saying she
hadn't heard from many other reporters. But she talked to me
for a few minutes about the legal action.
"I am still trying to prosecute [the lawsuit]," said Schoedinger,
a 38-year-old African-American woman who lived in the Houston
suburb of Missouri City. "I want to get this matter settled and
go on with my life."
Well, Schoedinger hasn't gone on with her life. In fact, three
months after I spoke to her, she died in an apparent suicide.
And this matter remains unsettled.
When I asked her in July 2003 about the lack of media coverage,
Schoedinger said she wasn't seeking publicity. She said she did
not even know about a December 2002 article in the Fort Bend Star,
the only U.S. mainstream media outlet that covered this story,
to my knowledge. The Fort Bend reporter, LeaAnne Klentzman, said
she even went to Schoedinger's home and talked to a man there, who
said she could not come to door. While I reached and spoke to
Schoedinger on my first attempt, maybe she wasn't ready to talk
back in December.
Anyways, Schoedinger said she was surprised the case wasn't
covered more because "it is true......People have to be
accountable for what they do, and that's why I'm pursuing it."
To be sure, Schoedinger's accusations - which include being
drugged and sexually assaulted numerous times by Bush and other
men purporting to be FBI agents - are bizarre and hard for most
people to believe.
* But her story fits in with those told by a
growing number of people who say they were used as guinea pigs
or whatever by members of the CIA or another U.S. agency who
wanted to test out the latest mind-controlling drug or just
have a strange form of release.
See what happens when you close the state hospitals?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
And her death - let's just say
government agents have made murders look like suicides before.
In her court petition, Schoedinger said police in Sugar Land,
another Houston suburb where she said some assailants linked to
Bush attempted to unsuccessfully abduct her from her car shortly
before the 2000 election, refused to take a report or do anything
about that incident. She filed a lawsuit against the Sugar Land
department and said that in preparing its defense, Sugar Land
police found out that she dated Bush as a minor. I didn't get a
chance to ask Schoedinger about that tie and didn't meet her in
person, but her driver's license listed her as being 5-foot-8
and weighing 125 pounds, for what that's worth.
The Fort Bend Star story quoted a Sugar Land police captain
saying his department had no record of any complaints by
Schoedinger. All he had to do was what I did - go to the
Fort Bend County Internet site and do a simple search on
Schoedinger's name in the area of civil court records. I found
the lawsuit Schoedinger filed in December 2000 against Sugar
Land police, and it even had numerous responses by the
department's attorneys in that case.
Just wait. This story gets stranger.
When I started asking Schoedinger about certain details of the
case, such as alleged surveillance at her home and if she was
still legally representing herself, she politely ended our
conversation. "I need to see what has been written,"
Schoedinger said. "I feel like it's best for me to end our
conversation."
Obviously, she had learned to be careful about what she said
and to whom she said it. I could understand her being leery
about talking about her situation with a stranger over the
phone.
But I remember being puzzled by Schoedinger's attitude after
hanging up the phone. I wondered that if she had made up such
a wild story, why she didn't come up with something a little
less outlandish, in which people couldn't necessarily dismiss
her as a kook. I wondered why she didn't seek publicity to at
least provide some form of protection. I've long learned that
being as public as possible is one of your best defenses
against rogue intelligence agents. But she didn't even seem
to want any media to cover her story. I told several writers
I knew, some of whom tried to contact Schoedinger. None
succeeded, as far as I know.
I remember thinking, "I hope she doesn't wind up on the wrong
side of a gun." And sure enough, in late September,
Schoedinger did.
The Houston Chronicle wrote a bare-bones obituary that stated
only that Schoedinger "expired" on Sept. 22, 2003, and her
burial was at Houston Memorial Gardens.
I called the Harris County Medical Examiner's office, and a
clerk told me the cause of death: a "suicide" by a "gunshot
wound to the head." I hung up amid bombs going off in my mind.
For one, using a gun to commit suicide is predominantly executed
by males, according to psychiatrists and other sources like
pharmaceutical firm Merck & Co. Women are more likely to overdose
on drugs, although the number of gunshot suicides among women has
increased in recent years.
Besides Pravda and Internet ezines - one of whom referred to
Schoedinger as "deranged" - I haven't seen stories on this
strange death of a woman who filed a rape lawsuit against the
U.S. president and wound up dead nine months later. I can't
say I'm surprised. Or even angry. I don't know what the hell
to think. All I know is I was one of the last - if not the
last - reporters to speak to Schoedinger, and she didn't sound
"deranged" to me in July 2003. She sounded like someone who
had gone through something weird and was trying to sort it out.
She sounded like someone who wanted the truth to come out.
And now she's dead.
If this had happened to Clinton when he was in the White House,
do you think the story would have been covered non-stop on FOX,
CNN and the right-wing talk shows? Do you think we'd have
reporters asking Clinton and his people about this death in
press conferences? Is FOX unfair and imbalanced to the
point of being "deranged?"
There are some more odd twists to this case. I also found a
2002 criminal case related to Schoedinger in which Christopher
Schoedinger, her husband, allegedly struck her. He pleaded no
contest and was sentenced to a year in jail. Christopher
Schoedinger had also filed for divorce. Then since 1997,
Margie Schoedinger had filed for at least five assumed
business names for various ventures - including a
communications firm, health and beauty business, travel
agency and publishing company. Could a "deranged" person
start all those businesses or even know how to file a lawsuit?
Schoedinger's lawsuit can still be viewed on the Fort Bend
County site at
http://ccweb.co.fort-bend.tx.us/localization/menu.asp - then
go down to the bottom and click on civil court. Then type
"schoedinger" in the plaintiff box and click search. You should
find another lawsuit she filed against Sugar Land police, as well.
http://ccweb.co.fort-bend.tx.us/imgcache/civil1986144-1-7.pdf
http://ccweb.co.fort-bend.tx.us/imgcache/civil1928133-1-18.pdf
I can really understand media members being intimidated, even
frightened, of the Bush administration. As I've detailed before,
these are not Boy Scouts running the show. The Schoedinger death
is just the latest in a string of strange ones surrounding the
Bush family - Bush biographer J.H. Hatfield, Sen. Paul Wellstone,
Sen. Mel Carnahan, and others that are detailed on various sites,
including at http://members.boardhost.com/gwbush/msg/362.html
.
For the record, I contacted Bush's media office about
Schoedinger and have yet to hear back. Now that I live in the
Washington, D.C., area, I can go down to the White House in
person and try to get someone to speak to me about this case.
As expected, I haven't had much luck with the Fort Bend
County and other Texas authorities. So maybe I'll stand outside
the White House, holding a sign saying, "Who killed Margie
Schoedinger?" and passing out copies of my column on the case.
It would make about as much sense as anything else in this matter.
For all I know, maybe Schoedinger did kill herself. Maybe she
dreamed up a lot of this stuff. But I don't know, am I "deranged"
to think it's weird that in this mass-media, detailed-information
age, so few people are even asking any questions about how a
woman who filed a rape lawsuit against the president could be
dead less than a year later?
Jackson Thoreau is an American writer and co-author of
We Will Not Get Over It: Restoring a Legitimate White House.
The updated, 120,000-word electronic book can be downloaded
on his Internet site at
http://www.geocities.com/jacksonthor/ebook.html
Citizens for Legitimate Government has the earlier version at
http://www.legitgov.org/we_will_not_get_over_it.html
He can be contacted at jacks...@yahoo.com
or jacks...@justice.com .
http://www.opednews.com/thoreau1103bush_rape_suicide.htm
***********************************
"Plaintiff had seven dates, (which became seven lovers),
had told no lies, committed no crimes, gotten 2 traffic tickets,
and dated George W. Bush as a minor." -Sugar Land Police Dept.
http://ccweb.co.fort-bend.tx.us/imgcache/civil1986144-1-7.pdf
See also:
http://ccweb.co.fort-bend.tx.us/imgcache/civil1928133-1-18.pdf
"MAN, you are come to the bitter end of your degradation.
Drain the dregs and leave not a stain in the glass.
"For WAR is upon you, around you and within you. You are
submerged in WAR so totally now there is no escape.
Like a cancer it has taken hold on you, crept stealthily
among you and become entrenched. No force on earth can
remove it. And no force in heaven will. For We, the Gods,
give man what man demands, not what he pretends to want.
And man who puts on airs and cries for peace and light
and love, and claims that his one desire is to live in
harmony with those around him, man who clothes himself
soberly with proper decency and goes about his business
saying: 'I am civilised. I am respectable. I am a
rational being in control of all my emotions', he is no
more than an ignorant fool, a hypocrite, a self-deluded
imbecile. For all he really wants is death, slaughter,
bloodshed, rape, pillage, and the violent hysterical
screeching lunacy of WAR. That is his true desire and
nothing less will truly satisfy him."
http://www.abrupt.org/LOGOS/sow/sow1.html
OBJECTS IN MIRROR (Are Closer than They Appear)
"... The Islamic groups that are committed to violence have
stripped into tiny little groups of about 30 people each.
They don't know a great deal about each other. So if you
eliminated one, another one would operate somewhere else.
They are spread throughout the Middle East in the Islamic
world. They are unafraid. I remember a former Jordanian
prime minister saying, 'How do you frighten someone who
thinks he's going to heaven if you chop his head off?'
It's a good question. If they are willing to sacrifice
themselves, then they will be able to carry out
operations..."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/interviews/aburish.html
Federation of American Scientists:
"Bush Administration Documents on Secrecy Policy"
http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/index.html
http://www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
"An Aglo-American Patriot" wrote:
QUESTION: "...the dust of humiliation and disgrace." ?
Now that the ongoing war in Iraq is officially regarded
as a "Bring It On" front-line attack against terrorism,
doesn't this send a confusing message to the innocent,
law abiding, and peace-loving average citizen of Iraq,
that our, 'coalition of the willing' forces, having
once been set on "liberating" the people of Iraq from
daily fear and oppression, are now intentionally
transforming their embattled country into a magnet for
all sorts of violent extremist elements and terrorists?
How is the value of 'quality of life' measured and rated
according to this evolving, geopolitical "new world
order" standard?! [How Do *YOU* Feel?]
"In January 2003, the U.S. Army and Defense
Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)
selected United Defense (UDI) to team with General
Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS) and the Lead
Systems Integrator (Boeing/SAIC) in the
design of the ground vehicles portion of
Future Combat Systems (FCS), a critical
component of the Army's planned force
transformation."
http://www.uniteddefense.com/index.htm
QUESTION: Who owns 'United Defense (UDI)'?
ANSWER: "... The Carlyle Group purchased
a majority stake..."
The Carlyle Group:
http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/index.html
Bechtel
http://www.bechtel.com/
Bechtel's "Iraq Infrastructure Reconstruction Program"
http://www.bechtel.com/iraq.html
Halliburton
http://www.halliburton.com/index.jsp
Kellogg Brown and Root (KBR), a subsidiary of Halliburton
http://www.halliburton.com/news/archive/2000/kbrnws_050800.jsp
"Those who do not understand the new tactics of
the opposition in Iraq should ask John Poindexter
and Oliver North about the tactics they used to
bring Nicaragua to its knees in the 1980's.
The Us-backed Contras sabotaged every effort
the Sandinistas made to rebuild the Nicaraguan
infrastructure. Dick Cheney was around then,
too. They even had a nice name for it:
'Low intensity conflict.'" --Editors Note:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/081903D.shtml
Tao Te Ching
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/taoism/ttcmerel.htm
http://www.conspiracydigest.com/carlyle_group.html
"... The Chairman Emeritus of Carlyle Group is
Frank C. Carlucci, whose claim to fame was Deputy
Secretary of Defense (1981-1982) and National
Security Adviser (1987-1989). After his government
stint, he headed the Sears/ Coldwell Banker scam.
"The current chairman of Carlyle Group is Lou Gerstner,
the former Chairman of IBM.
"Sir James Baker III, Chief of Staff (1981 -'85), and
Secretary of Treasury (1985-'89) under Reagan; and
Secretary of State (1989 - 1993) under
George H. W. Bush Sr., is a 'Senior Advisor.'
"Sir George Herbert Walker Bush, Director of CIA
(1976-'77) under Ford; Vice-President (1981-'89)
under Reagan; and President (1989 - '93), acts as
a broker and also senior advisor.
"Other name brand politicos connected to Carlyle
include, former British prime minister John Major
(Chairman of Carlyle Europe), Dick Darman, the
former Reagan-Bush director of the Office of
Management and Budget, and Arthur Levitt, former
chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission
and Carlyle Senior Advisor. ..."
http://www.conspiracydigest.com/carlyle_group.html
A former ambassador to Saudi Arabia was
another Bush/Carlyle Group crony.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_01/0662.Bush.Saudi.htm
James A. Baker III is the current Baker in Baker
Botts. Baker was Secretary of State under the first
President Bush. He is currently senior counsel to
The Carlyle Group. Baker was a classmate of
Donald H. Rumsfeld at Yale University. Rumsfeld,
the current Secretary of Defense, was the
roommate of Frank C. Carlucci at Yale.
Carlucci, who was head of the National Security
Counsel under President Ronald Reagan, is
currently chairman of The Carlyle Group.
The current President Bush was a director of
Caterair during the years 1990-1994. Caterair is
owned by The Carlyle Group.
The board of directors of The Carlyle Group also
includes: former Phillipines President, Fidel
V. Ramos; former director of the U.S. Office of
Management & Budget, Richard Darman; former
Assistant to the President (Bush I), Robert Grady;
former Prime Minister of South Korea, Park Tae Joon;
former SEC chairman, Arthur Levitt; former Prime
Minister of Great Britain, John Major; former
general director of the World Health Organization,
Michael Orloff; retired U.S. Army General,
J. H. Binford Peay; former president of Deutsche
Bundesbank, Karl Otto Pohl; and former chairman of
the Joint Chief's of Staff, John Shalikashvili.
Two-thirds of Carlyle's holdings are in defense
and telecommunications companies.
At leaset $2 million of Carlyle funding has come
from the bin Laden family of Saudi Arabia.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_01/0662.Bush.Saudi.htm
?!?!?
*****************************************************************
MEMRI: The Middle East Media Research Institute
http://memri.org/
<snip>
GIAT Industries:
http://www.giat-industries.fr/us_index.asp
Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command
http://enterprise.spawar.navy.mil
National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
http://www.nro.gov
Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)
http://www.darpa.mil
The Security Council
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/index.htm
Confirmed coalition deaths:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/
*Rebuilding Iraq Conference* Arlington, Virginia
GET IN ON THE GROUND FLOOR!
IRAQ IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS!!!
http://www.new-fields.com/Iraq/
AL QAEDA'S AGENDA FOR IRAQ
By AMIR TAHERI
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/544
September 4, 2003 -- 'IT is not the American war machine
that should be of the utmost concern to Muslims.
What threatens the future of Islam, in fact its very
survival, is American democracy." This is the message of
a new book, just published by al Qaeda in several Arab
countries. The author of "The Future of Iraq and The
Arabian Peninsula After The Fall of Baghdad" is Yussuf
al-Ayyeri, one of Osama bin Laden's closest associates
since the early '90s. A Saudi citizen also known by the
nom de guerre Abu Muhammad, he was killed in a gun battle
with security forces in Riyadh last June.
The book is published by The Centre for Islamic Research
and Studies, a company set up by bin Laden in 1995 with
branches in New York and London (now closed). Over the
past eight years, it has published more than 40 books by
al Qaeda "thinkers and researchers" including militants
such as Ayman al-Zawahiri, bin Laden's No. 2.
Al-Ayyeri first made his name in the mid '90s as a
commander of the Farouq camp in eastern Afghanistan,
where al Qaeda and the Taliban trained thousands of
"volunteers for martyrdom."
Al-Ayyeri argues that the history of mankind is the
story of "perpetual war between belief and unbelief."
Over the millennia, both have appeared in different
guises. As far as belief is concerned, the absolutely
final version is represented by Islam, which "annuls all
other religions and creeds." Thus, Muslims can have only
one goal: converting all humanity to Islam and "effacing
the final traces of all other religions, creeds and
ideologies." Unbelief (kufr) has come in numerous forms
and shapes, but with a single objective: to destroy faith
in God. In the West, unbelief has succeeded in making a
majority of people forget God and worship the world.
Islam, however, is resisting the trend because Allah
means to give it final victory.
Al-Ayyeri then shows how various forms of unbelief
attacked the world of Islam in the past century or so,
to be defeated in one way or another.
The first form of unbelief to attack was "modernism"
(hidatha), which led to the caliphate's destruction
and the emergence in the lands of Islam of states
based on ethnic identities and territorial dimensions
rather than religious faith.
The second was nationalism, which, imported from Europe,
divided Muslims into Arabs, Persians, Turks and others.
Al-Ayyeri claims that nationalism has now been crushed
in almost all Muslim lands. He claims that a true Muslim
is not loyal to any particular nation-state.
The third form of unbelief is socialism, which includes
communism. That, too, has been defeated and eliminated
from the Muslim world, Al-Ayyeri asserts. He presents
Ba'athism, the Iraqi ruling party's ideology under
Saddam Hussein, as the fourth form of unbelief to afflict
Muslims, especially Arabs. Ba'athism (also the official
ideology of the Syrian regime) offers Arabs a mixture of
pan-Arabism and socialism as an alternative to Islam.
Al-Ayyeri says Muslims "should welcome the destruction
of Ba'athism in Iraq."
"The end of Ba'ath rule in Iraq is good for Islam and
Muslims," he writes. "Where the banner of Ba'ath has
fallen, shall rise the banner of Islam."
The author notes as "a paradox" the fact that all the
various forms of unbelief that threatened Islam were
defeated with the help of the Western powers, and more
specifically the United States.
The "modernizing" movement in the Muslim world was
ultimately discredited when European imperial powers
forced their domination on Muslim lands, turning the
Westernized elite into their "hired lackeys."
The nationalists were defeated and discredited in wars
led against them by various Western powers or, in the
case of Nasserism in Egypt, by Israel.
The West also gave a hand in defeating socialism and
communism in the Muslim world. The most dramatic example
of this came when America helped the Afghan mujaheeden
destroy the Soviet-backed communist regime in Kabul.
And now the United States and its British allies have
destroyed Ba'athism in Iraq and may have fatally
undermined it in Syria as well.
What Al-Ayyeri sees now is a "clean battlefield" in
which Islam faces a new form of unbelief. This, he
labels "secularist democracy." This threat is "far
more dangerous to Islam" than all its predecessors
combined. The reasons, he explains in a whole chapter,
must be sought in democracy's "seductive capacities."
This form of "unbelief" persuades the people that they
are in charge of their destiny and that, using their
collective reasoning, they can shape policies and pass
laws as they see fit. That leads them into ignoring
the "unalterable laws" promulgated by God for the whole
of mankind, and codified in the Islamic shariah
(jurisprudence) until the end of time.
The goal of democracy, according to Al-Ayyeri, is to
"make Muslims love this world, forget the next world
and abandon jihad." If established in any Muslim
country for a reasonably long time, democracy could
lead to economic prosperity, which, in turn, would
make Muslims "reluctant to die in martyrdom" in
defense of their faith.
He says that it is vital to prevent any normalization
and stabilization in Iraq. Muslim militants should make
sure that the United States does not succeed in holding
elections in Iraq and creating a democratic government.
"If democracy comes to Iraq, the next target [for
democratization] would be the whole of the Muslim
world," Al-Ayyeri writes.
The al Qaeda ideologist claims that the only Muslim
country already affected by "the beginning of
democratization" and thus in "mortal danger" is Turkey.
"Do we want what happened in Turkey to happen to all
Muslim countries?" he asks. "Do we want Muslims to
refuse taking part in jihad and submit to secularism,
which is a Zionist-Crusader concoction?"
Al-Ayyeri says Iraq would become the graveyard of
secular democracy, just as Afghanistan became the
graveyard of communism. The idea is that the Americans,
faced with mounting casualties in Iraq, will "just run
away," as did the Soviets in Afghanistan. This is
because the Americans love this world and are concerned
about nothing but their own comfort, while Muslims
dream of the pleasures that martyrdom offers in paradise.
"In Iraq today, there are only two sides," Al-Ayyeri
asserts. "Here we have a clash of two visions of the
world and the future of mankind. The side prepared to
accept more sacrifices will win."
Al-Ayyeri's analysis may sound naive; he also gets most
of his facts wrong. But he is right in reminding the
world that what happens in Iraq could affect other Arab
countries - in fact, the whole of the Muslim world.
AL QAEDA'S AGENDA FOR IRAQ
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/544
[<http://www.yaislah.org/>]
The Movement for Islamic Reform in Arabia
() From the Editor: www.oilandgasinternational.com
Unocal & Afghanistan
[...]
Author Ahmed Rashid * has revealed that since 1995,
Unocal has sought to build US$1.9 billion, 790-mile oil and
gas pipelines from the 25 Tcf Dauletabad Field in Turkmenistan
across Afghanistan to Pakistani ports on the Arabian Sea as an
alternate route for transporting Caspian region oil and
gas to the enormous Indian subcontinent markets and perhaps
beyond to Southeast Asia. But, Rashid points out, this requires
an agreeable administration in Afghanistan, which the Taliban
no longer is.
Unocal tried courting Taliban leaders after they took Kabul
in 1996, taking them to Houston, where they were treated royally.
They were offered US$.15 per 1000 cf of gas that passed through
Afghanistan, and they agreed after US Assistant Secretary of
State Robin Raphael lobbied them for the Unocal pipeline.
[...]
If the Taliban is overthrown, terrorism may take a major blow,
but in doing so, the primary stumbling block to the
Caspian-Pakistan pipeline will also be removed. [...] (10/29/01)
http://www.oilandgasinternational.com/
* Ahmed Rashid, author of Taliban -
Militant Islam, Oil & Fundamentalism in Central Asia [2000]
Rupert Murdoch
Keith Rupert Murdoch (born March 11, 1931) is a
media entrepreneur, major shareholder and managing
director of the News Corporation. Murdoch was born
in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia and educated at
Oxford University (Worcester College), United Kingdom.
His father was Keith Murdoch, a reporter and advisor
to Billy Hughes, Prime Minister of Australia during
World War One.
Murdoch is generally regarded as the single most
politically influential media proprietor in the world,
and is regularly courted by politicians, especially
current and past British and Australian Prime Ministers,
who attempt to persuade him to run favourable coverage.
His politics are generally right-wing, though he
apparently favours republicanism over monarchy and is
said to have refused a peerage from Queen Elizabeth II.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Rupert_Murdoch
"I believe that God wants me to be president."
-George W. Bush
http://tinyurl.com/4y2cl
God wanted me to post this
>Once saying of her impending death, "I am like a plane that has
>left the gate and not taken off. I would rather go back to the
>gate or fly away."
http://www.ummo.cc/lastpersononearth.html
Remembering the way it was:
http://maps.lessonplanet.com/search/Science/Environment/Animals/Extinct_Species
http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/endangered/extinct.html
http://midwest.fws.gov/Endangered/lists/extinct.html
http://www.chias.org/www/edu/mitc/extinct.html
http://www.nature.ca/notebooks/english/enexpg.htm
http://www.ornithology.com/extinct.html
http://www.thinkquest.org/library/cat_show.html?cat_id=47
http://www.woodrow.org/teachers/bi/1999/projects/group4/Decker/extinct.html
http://members.aol.com/freedog1000/ext.htm
http://research.amnh.org/biodiversity/crisis/extincspec.html
http://www.thinkquest.org/library/site_sum.html?tname=J002558F&url=J002558F/extinct_species2.htm
------------------------------------------------------
"Who does Not Know the Truth, is simply a Fool...
Yet who Knows the Truth and Calls it a Lie, is a Criminal."
- In "Galileo Galilei" by Berthold Brecht (1898-1956)
-------------------------------------------------------
Moonie-Nazi Hoards for Bush
>
> Start a thread about Bush and I'm sure you will get a lot of action. Most of
> us dug into his background in 2000 and at least I know that I didn't vote
> for him. I don't care about him. I'm only interested in the truth about
> Kerry and I don't care to waste my time having to swerve through a bunch of
> stuff I already know about Bush.
Messiah King Of Kings Sun Myung Moon Salutes the Swift Boat Veterans
and Supports Them With His Church Property and Enormous Fortune.
http://tinyurl.com/6zplz
Google.com Results 51,800 for "Washington Times" Swift Boat OR "Swift
Boats".
http://tinyurl.com/62cy3
Results 5,950 for Sun Myung Moon Owns Washington Times Newspaper.
http://tinyurl.com/3vrm5
Results 2,540 for Sun Myung Moon is Close Bush Family Friend.
http://tinyurl.com/59jwn
Results 1,670 for Sun Myung Moon Has Given Bush Family Millions of
Dollars.
http://tinyurl.com/6aqc2
Results 130 for George W. Bush Supports Sun Myung Moon's Agenda.
http://tinyurl.com/6kjrg
Results 5,420 for Sun Myung Moon is Messiah King of Kings.
http://tinyurl.com/4eb6l
Results 3,640 for Sun Myung Moon is Lord King of America.
http://tinyurl.com/3uxg7
Results 309 for Sun Myung Moon Has Abolished All Religions.
http://tinyurl.com/69e7k
Results 2,830 for Sun Myung Moon Says Take Down Christian Crosses.
http://tinyurl.com/49poq
Results 2,400 for Sun Myung Moon Says Jesus Failed His Mission.
http://tinyurl.com/55h9k
Results 662 for Sun Myung Moon Has Taken Over Jerry Falwell.
http://tinyurl.com/43dr9
Results 642 for Sun Myung Moon Funds the Heritage Foundation.
http://tinyurl.com/4uphc
Results 14 for Heritage Foundation Townhall.com Works With Sun Myung
Moon.
http://tinyurl.com/458x7
Results 586 for Sun Myung Moon and Washington Times called for
Homeland Security in 2000.
http://tinyurl.com/5be5l
Results 90 for Sun Myung Moon Wants to Abolish America's Government.
http://tinyurl.com/5sot2
Results 210 for Sun Myung Moon Wants Homosexuals All Killed
http://tinyurl.com/4yzv2
Results 110 for Sun Myung Moon Says Homosexuals Are Dung-Eating-Dogs
http://tinyurl.com/4b4t8
Results 78 for Sun Myung Moon Designed Bush's Faith-Based Agenda.
http://tinyurl.com/5cqa3
Results 285 for Sun Myung Moon Has Received Tax-Payer Dollars.
http://tinyurl.com/3ro8q
Results 1,890 for Sun Myung Moon Has Many Secret Organizations
Worldwide.
http://tinyurl.com/6ckzx
Results 921 for Lawyers in Japan Love Sun Myung Moon.
http://tinyurl.com/5u4xh
Results 175 for Sun Myung Moon Has Many Recruits in Great Britain
http://tinyurl.com/587s8
Results 6,900 for Sun Myung Moon Has Many Businesses Around the World.
http://tinyurl.com/5a2y6
Results 192 for Sun Myung Moon is a Wealthy Billionaire.
http://tinyurl.com/4orv2
Results 14 for Sun Myung Moon Makes "Spiritual Sales"
http://tinyurl.com/682qe
Results 100 for Sun Myung Moon Gives North Korea Nuclear Missile
Launch Technology.
http://tinyurl.com/64eez
Results 1,630 for All Who Deny Sun Myung Moon as Lord Will Die
http://tinyurl.com/5vv6f
Results 154 for Sun Myung Moon Owns Gun Factories.
Dave Cook
Vietnam is clearly not to the liking of those who support John Kerry,
but this ancient history would have remained buried under the cloak of
time if Kerry hadn't made such a point of it at the Convention. I have
attempted to pull together a composite of the information that was
posted by reasonably creditable sources, to see what we can learn from
a review of his Vietnam experiences. Forget the BS about how the Swift
Boat Vets are lying to discredit Kerry for personal gain or revenge,
and review the facts. It is really very obvious that Kerry embellished
his records and took advantage of an individual that was not in the
Swift Boat Service (Rassmann), to gain two Purple Hearts and a Bronze
Star that he did not earn. IT IS CLEAR THAT Kerry spent many years
trying to build his record, and truth could not stand in his way. His
political ambitions were obvious even as a Yale student. This post has
what I think is logical and what is now history, but your conclusions
about it's importance depends on how badly you want Kerry for
President. Anyway, here is what I see. This is followed up with some
of the reasons for these conclusions.
John Kerry's first Purple Heart was for action on December 2, 1968.
According to the Military Order of the Purple Heart, if enemy fire is
not involved in the incident, no medal should be awarded. "The Purple
Heart is awarded to members of the armed forces of the U.S. who are
wounded by an instrument of war in the hands of the enemy," according
to the organization chartered by Congress. From Kerry's own diary,
they had not been shot at as late as December 11, 1968, so he was not
eligible.The Doctor that treated the wound recalled: According to
Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms
fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy
action. Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire
from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to
some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by
a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the
rocks. That seemed to fit the injury which I treated. The wound was
covered with a bandaid. No [sic] other injuries were reported and I do
not recall that there was any reported damage to the boat.
Kerry earned his second Purple Heart while returning from a PCF
mission up the Bo De River on 20 February 1969. I feel that although
the wound was minor, this Purple Heart was deserved. Kerry also got a
Silver Star from this action. There were a lot of veterans who didn't
get a Silver Star for far greater heroism, but that is not Kerry's
fault.
Kerry received his third Purple Heart for action on March 13, 1969.
This is the most controversial of the three. The records show that
there was no damage to Kerry's Swift Boat in the March 13,1969
"ambush" that got Kerry the bronze star and got him out of Vietnam.
There is no way that VC could have fired at a 50 foot long boat from
less than 50 yards away (half the length of a football field) and
never hit it. Clearly, there was NO GUNFIRE FROM THE RIVER BANK. Kerry
lied. His lie added a Bronze Star to his collection. His "wound" from
that "battle" got him out of Vietnam. Two injuries - a small bruise on
his right arm and a minor injury to his buttocks - won Kerry his Third
Purple Heart and a trip home. Whether the wound to his buttocks was
the result of his fooling around with a grenade is unimportant. It was
not obtained during enemy action, and is not eligible for a purple
heart.
He stated numerous times that he went to Cambodia with an agent from
the CIA. (This has been proven to be untrue. Kerry was in Sa Dec,
about 50 miles from the Cambodian border. And now with the publication
of Unfit for Command, three of Kerry's Swiftboat crewmen at the time
confirm this.) The CIA did not use Swift Boats to insert agents. Other
than proving that he fabricated a fictional story to make himself
appear to be more important, this "manufactured" experience seems
unimportant.
Kerry has said that members of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth lied
when they said he inflated his role in various combat actions in the
Mekong Delta in 1968 and 1969 and had manipulated the award of three
Purple Heart medals for wounds and Bronze and Silver Star medals for
valor in combat.
Let's look at some of the analysis that leads me to believe a lot of
the data in "Unfit for Command" and the SBVT ads, but recognize that
Kerry's anti-war protests are a key part of the ad. His goal was to
hurt the war effort, and he supported North Vietnam with his actions.
His statements dishonor those that died in Vietnam, but should not
influence this analysis of his war effort. It should be considered
when making our selection of the next President, however. The VC used
Kerry's anti-war statements to hurt the morale of the POWs there.
"John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in
North Viet Nam prison camps took torture to avoid saying." -- Paul
Galanti POW Jan. 1966 - Feb. 1973
John Kerry's claims of the action leading to a Bronze Star are
disputed. (As to an ambush, I tend to believe that no one could have
been firing at the Swift Boats from the shore, a distance of 75 feet,
can miss three 50 foot long boats with all of their shots, but that is
only my opinion.) The one who wrote up the after action report that
says there was gunfire from the shore was Kerry, the one who got the
Bronze Star. Rassmann believed that they were under fire and put Kerry
in for a medal. The best analysis that I have seen is by Grant
Holcomb, and I repeat it below.
Why James Rassmann Is Honestly Mistaken About John Kerry Saving His
Life
by Grant K. Holcomb 24 August 2004
The Officers-in-Charge of Swift boats PCF-51, PCF-23, PCF-43, and
PCF-3 state that they were not receiving enemy fire after the mine
explosion.
I do not doubt the sincerity of Mr. James A. Rassmann regarding his
version of events on March 13, 1969. My own experience and review of
such part of the record as is available convinces me that then First
Lieutenant James A. Rassmann is right about then Lieutenant Junior
Grade John F. Kerry helping him out of the water. However, Rassmann is
wrong about Kerry heroically saving his life.
I was an Operations Officer for 2d Battalion, 7th Marine Regiment
during the first Gulf War. As a U.S. Marine Corps Officer, achieving
the rank of Major, I was on active duty for over a decade. I have
watched first hand how men behave under enemy fire.
It is my opinion that Mr. Rassmann actually believes that he was
under enemy fire and that now Presidential candidate Senator John
Kerry is shamefully exploiting the situation for personal political
gain. It is also my opinion that, if a proper investigation is
conducted, that Senator Kerry's "band of brothers" will reveal
significantly embarrassing facts.
The right questions have not been asked and pertinent U.S. Navy and
U.S. Army operational, administrative award, maintenance, and medical
documents have not been reviewed, which I believe would disprove
Senator Kerry's claims. I cross-referenced the available official
Naval documents and numerous statements from Senator Kerry, Mr.
Rassmann, and several other officers and sailors who participated in
the "Sea Lords" tactical operation on March 13, 1969. I use a
military "findings of fact" format, presented in chronological order,
to describe this incident. Kerry and Rassmann contradict themselves
many times. However, multiple versions match on several points with
other first hand accounts, so I weighed those findings as being the
most accurate.
The official Naval documents reviewed for these findings, to include
the after action report (SPOT report), award citations, and battle
damage report, were downloaded from the Kerry website.
The closer the date of the statements to the date of the Democratic
National Convention (DNC), the more embellished and divergent Kerry's
and Rassmann's statements became as compared to older first hand
observations and official Naval documents.
The Kerry Presidential campaign news release dated January 17, 2004,
appended to this statement, represents the most divergent, carefully
embellished, and falsified account of the incident I was able to find.
Why would Kerry's Presidential campaign staff release a statement to
the American people materially different from the "official" documents
available on Kerry's own website?
Here are my findings:
1.) A U.S. Naval Patrol Craft Fast (PCF), also called a "Swift" boat,
is 50 feet long, nearly 14 feet wide, has a maximum speed of 32 Knots,
and typically has a crew of six (1 officer and 5 enlisted).
2.) On March 13, 1969, a squadron of five Swift boats participated in
operation Sea Lords in Bay Hap River and Dong Cung Canal.
3.) The squadron consisted of Swift boats PCF-94, PCF-51, PCF-23,
PCF-43, and PCF-3.
4.) Sea Lords was a "sweeping" operation conducted in conjunction
with U.S. Army ground forces and other allied ground forces.
5.) At the end of ground operations (approximately 5 hours), the
Swift boats extracted the ground troops and began exiting the river.
6.) LTJG John F. Kerry USN was the Officer-in-Charge of Swift boat
PCF-94.
7.) 1LT James A. Rassmann USA was the Executive Officer of
A-Detachment (A404), a 12 man Green Beret unit.
8.) Rassmann was a passenger on Kerry's boat and did not serve with
Kerry as a crewman.
9.) As a Green Beret, Rassmann was not trained in U.S. Navy Swift
boat operations.
10.) Rassmann did not command or have "his own" Swift boat.
11.) Swift boats do not operate independently and the commanders and
crews of the other Swift boats in Kerry's Swift boat squadron had
direct and daily first hand observation of his conduct and actions.
12.) From the morning ground operations Kerry was wounded in his left
buttocks by a piece of shrapnel from a hand grenade, which he had
thrown into a bin of rice.
13.) At approximately 1445 hours (2:45 PM) the Swift boats started
their exit of the river.
14.) Swift boat PCF-3 was hit by a command detonated mine. The entire
crew was wounded and two crew members were thrown into the water.
Rassmann was not in this boat.
15.) Only one mine explosion was observed.
16.) Kerry's Swift boat was on the opposite side of the waterway from
where Swift boat PCF-3 was damaged by the mine. The waterway is
approximately 75 yards wide.
17.) Kerry had his driver speed away down river from the incident
site hitting something in the river. This collision resulted in Kerry
hitting the bulkhead and receiving contusions on his right forearm. At
that time, supposedly responding to a bow gun being jammed, Rassmann
was heading to the bow and was subsequently knocked out of Kerry's
boat.
18.) Kerry's Swift boat traveled as far as 5,000 meters (3.1 miles)
down river before returning up river to retrieve Rassmann.
19.) The maximum rated speed of a Swift boat is 32 Knots (36.8 MPH).
Taking into account that Kerry's boat had "curled and chipped" screws,
Rassmann was in the water more than 10 minutes.
20.) Rassmann spent a significant amount of his time in the water
intentionally submerged, holding his breath in an attempt to evade
what he thought was enemy fire.
21.) Swift boats PCF-51, PCF-23, and PCF-43 remained at the scene
with damaged Swift boat PCF-3.
22.) After the mine explosion, Swift boats PCF-51, PCF-23, and PCF-43
provided suppression fire against both shorelines in anticipation of
an ambush. It is a sound and proven tactical decision to go on the
offense against an ambush. Turning and running only exposes your back
to the enemy, presenting them with a much better target. Running from
an ambush without firing also allows the enemy to easily establish
accurate weapons fire.
23.) The Officers-in-Charge of Swift boats PCF-51, PCF-23, PCF-43,
and PCF-3 state that they were not receiving enemy fire after the mine
explosion.
24.) The weapons fire heard by Rassmann was from the twin .50-caliber
Browning machine guns being fired by each of the Swift boats (PCF-51,
PCF-23, and PCF-43), not enemy fire. Rassmann assumed that such a
significant amount of weapons fire coming from the Swift boats must be
in response to enemy fire.
25.) The "Battle Damage" report of March 13, 1969 does not reflect
any bullet damage to any of the 5 Swift boats. The lack of any bullet
holes in any of the five Swift boats following the incident presents
reliable forensic evidence that there was no enemy weapons fire. Also,
none of the personnel involved in the incident received any bullet
wounds during the incident. In a waterway less than 75 yards wide, if
the enemy on both sides of the river were in covered positions with
clear fields of fire, the enemy could not possibly miss hitting the 50
foot long aluminum boats. Rassmann and many others would be dead
considering the length of time the boats were present supporting Swift
boat PCF-3.
26.) Kerry returned to the scene and picked up Rassmann at the same
time another Swift boat approached Rassmann for an attempted pick up.
Rassmann stated in an interview with Los Angeles Times on 3/13/04 that
Kerry pulled him into the boat using his good arm.
27.) Swift boat PCF-43 evacuated Kerry, Rassmann, and the injured
crew and passengers of Swift boat PCF-3 to the U.S. Coast Guard vessel
Spencer (WHEC-36) where Kerry was treated for the shrapnel wound to
his left buttocks and the contusions on his right forearm. Kerry was
released for duty immediately following his treatment.
28.) Kerry's Swift boat PCF-94 towed the damaged Swift boat PCF-3
(without Kerry on board) demonstrating PCF-94's operational status
after the incident.
29.) Rassmann wrote the award recommendation that resulted in Kerry
receiving a medal.
30.) Rassmann recommended that Kerry receive a Silver Star. Rassmann
believed then, as he does now, that he was actually under enemy fire.
31.) An official statement from an officer is rarely questioned. The
U.S. Navy chain of command at the time of the incident acted in good
faith on Rassmann's recommendation for a medal. However, the U.S. Navy
issued Kerry a Bronze Star instead of a Silver Star. Kerry also
received a Purple Heart.
32.) An act of heroism is defined as going "above and beyond the call
of duty." It was Kerry's duty to pick up Rassmann when he fell out of
Kerry's boat, not an act of heroism. Kerry could have been charged for
dereliction of duty if he had not done so. If the U.S. Navy higher
chain of command knew that there was no enemy weapons fire, the medal
would not have been awarded.
33.) Rassmann is mistaken about Kerry "saving his life." Swift boat
PCF-51 picked up the other men in the water from Swift boat PCF-3 and
could have also picked up Rassmann as well.
Another critic, Larry Thurlow, a fellow Swift boat commander in the
Mekong Delta in 1969, disputed Kerry's claim that his boat and others
in the five-boat patrol came under enemy fire during a March 13, 1969,
mission that earned Kerry a Bronze Star. Thurlow said that although
one of the Swift boats was disabled by a mine explosion, there was no
enemy fire from shore, as Kerry and others testified, and that Kerry's
account was "a total fabrication." Thurlow said in an affidavit: "I
never heard a shot." However, a citation for the Bronze Star with
valor awarded to Thurlow for that same mission stated that his actions
"took place under constant enemy small arms fire which (Thurlow)
completely ignored" while he provided assistance to the damaged Swift
boat and the wounded aboard. (Thurlow says the commendation was based
on Kerry's report, and not written by him. I have no proof that this
is untrue.)
The Swift boat veterans also have cast doubt on Kerry's account that a
second mine explosion damaged his boat, PCF-94, and blew an Army
Special Forces officer, Jim Rassmann, overboard. Only Swift Boat 3,
not Kerry's boat (PC-94) was damaged, and a existence of a second mine
explosion is not supported, because there was no damage to Kerry's
PCF-94. Rassmann was most likely thrown overboard when Kerry decided
that he had get away from the area where the mine had gone off, and
accelerated the boat.
Harlow
> On 26 Aug 2004 23:52:15 -0700, har...@k.st (Harlow) wrote:
> >Once saying of her impending death, "I am like a plane that has
> >left the gate and not taken off. I would rather go back to the
> >gate or fly away."
> http://www.ummo.cc/lastpersononearth.html
> Remembering the way it was:
> http://maps.lessonplanet.com/search/Science/Environment/Animals/Extinct_Species
> http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/endangered/extinct.html
> http://midwest.fws.gov/Endangered/lists/extinct.html
> http://www.chias.org/www/edu/mitc/extinct.html
> http://www.nature.ca/notebooks/english/enexpg.htm
> http://www.ornithology.com/extinct.html
> http://www.thinkquest.org/library/cat_show.html?cat_id=47
> http://www.woodrow.org/teachers/bi/1999/projects/group4/Decker/extinct.html
> http://members.aol.com/freedog1000/ext.htm
> http://research.amnh.org/biodiversity/crisis/extincspec.html
> http://www.thinkquest.org/library/site_sum.html?tname=J002558F&url=J002558F/extinct_species2.htm
http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/dog/results?otmpl=dog/webresults.htm&qcat=web&qkw=species+extinct+since+1900&top=1&start=&ver=8977
Dubya http://www.garbage-house.com/etc/asshole.shtml
"If Bush is for it, it must be stupid and dangerous.
It's amazing how that with the billions of money we
spend on spy satellites and surveillance that the
closest we can come to 'proof' of Iraq having
weapons of mass destruction is a grainy photo of
a tv studio.
"The Bush administrations propaganda stories
http://tinyurl.com/5vmxu have changed more often
than Charlie Sheen's hooker escorts with each one
more adhering to the 'boy who cried wolf' philosophy.
The simple fact is there is no proof and even if
there were proof, who cares? If Iraq had a 'BIG' bomb
and dropped it on the United States he knows his
country would be vaporized off the planet. This is
like Wil Wheaton going up to Lennox Lewis and sucker
punching him in the back of the head. Not bloody
likely. Apparently if you ALREADY HAVE weapons of
mass destruction ('North Korea', China, Israel,
Pakistan) it's ok but if you're seeking them then
it's a no no. Interesting.
"CNN would have you thinking this was a continuation
on the 'war on terror' which is bullshit. There is no
concrete proof of Al Qaeda connections. Get your head
out your ass America - our President is the looniest,
stupidest, most dangerous retarded fuck perhaps on the
face of the planet and I will vote for ANYTHING vs.
Bush in the next election. As in a box of dirt would
be a better candidate.
"Could we have a stupider president? I mean - I'd
rather have a local septic tank installer manning the
helm of the country than this dirt for brains simpleton.
This guy can't even say 'Hello' without reading it
stiffly off a teleprompter and then even fucking it
up to boot!
"Besides the fact of his obvious brainlessness, this
man is one dangerous fuck to the world. His previous
track record has nothing in it that dictates that he
should be President. Indeed a Fortunate Son. Read about
a situation when he was governor of Texas."
http://www.texnews.com/opinion97/pardon092897.html
http://www.garbage-house.com/etc/asshole.shtml
The Religion Gap
http://nashvillefiles.com/blog/archives/000178.html
"West Wing staffers call Bush and Ashcroft 'the Blues Brothers'
because 'they're on a mission from God.'"
--Capitol Hill Blue
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4636.shtml
'On a Mission From God': The Religious Right and
the Emerging American Theocracy
http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/03/far04007.html
GOODBYE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE:
"... George W. Bush told a Houston, Texas,
Baptist church that he believed that he had
been chosen by God to be a good steward of
the nation. In San Antonio, Texas, Alamo City
Christian Fellowship pastor David Walker says
that as a group of local church leaders prayed
over George W. Bush they felt a divine presence
anointing the occasion. 'We felt God's presence
and that He might do something for the nation,'
he recalls.
"As Bishop Ray rode the bus up the coast of
the Florida political battlefields, he summed
up what many evangelical leaders today are
feeling, regardless of political perspective:
'I knew that Bush has been placed here by the
sovereignty of God. Either he has turned his
heart to God or God knows his heart will turn.
First, I would advise him to unashamedly
indicate that he seeks the nation to pray for
our direction.'"
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/150/41.0.html
"...The concepts of 'holy war' and 'just war' were
developed by the Holy (Christian) Roman Empire to
force the pacifist Middle Eastern Christians into
the Roman army. These Christians believed in turning
the other cheek and renounced violence for 3 centuries
before the Romans converted to Christianity under the
rule of Constantine.
"It is not surprising that the Christian Roman
Empire was militant, It's first emperor believed he
conquered Rome after a vision in which he saw a cross
over the sun and heard a voice telling him that he
would win under the religion of the cross."
http://home.att.net/~a.f.aly/jihad.htm
"...Saint George was the Patron Saint of the Crusader
armies. Legend has it that the original George slew a
dragon somewhere along the coast of the Holy Land.
During a battle with the Moslems in 1063, George
reappeared on a white horse, wearing shining armor
and bearing on his lance a white banner decorated
with a cross. The same thing apparently happened in
1099, as George led the Crusaders to victory in their
siege of Jerusalem.
"Despite our tragic historical associations with
the Crusades, Jews the world over wish George W. Bush
our heartfelt blessings in his noble mission, truly
imbued with infinite justice. Israel will provide
America with whatever military, logistical or
intelligence assistance it requests. Unlike its
coalition 'partners,' we'll be there when we're needed.
"One small request as you embark on your Crusade:
please don't ask us to sacrifice our security for your
phony 'partners,' who will betray your nation when the
wind shifts. With you, we will pray for the peace of
Jerusalem. But we won't pay with it."
http://www.israelinsider.com/views/articles/views_0142.htm
The Real History of the Crusades: "... Just how
insensitive was President George W. Bush for
using the word 'crusade' in his remarks?"
http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm
God wanted me to post this
Thanks for the giggle. Isn't it amazing how pompous one Prez. gets when
defense contractor profits are more important than self-survival.
Perhaps Bechtel and the Bilderbergs are planning on spending their wealth
and power in the 'after-life', eh?
It certainly won't be on Mars, given their backward technology.
That's what happens when one's religion is the lust for wealth and power, in
lieu of intelligence.
------------------------------------------------------
DGVREIMAN
"John Agosta" <j_agosta@remove_wideopenwest.kom> wrote in message
Doug Says: Considering I never lie in my posts, and I back up
everything I say, and that you can never refute anything I post,
it appears you are the one that is having a problem with the
truth. You hide from the truth - but whether you like it or not
the truth will come out about John Kerry.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
DGVREIMAN
Doug Says: Not to mention Kerry's first Purple Heart in which
both the Doctor that looked at his scratch and his commanding
officer said Kerry did not deserve. When a Doctor that looks at
a scratch (wound) and says it does not need treatment and
therefore does not qualify for the Purple Heart, but Kerry
surreptitiously finds a way to claim that medal anyway, then is
there any question whatsoever that Kerry is claiming awards that
he did not deserve for ulterior reasons?
I personally believe that John Kerry volunteered for Vietnam for
ulterior reasons, and that his real bosses told him to do so.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
"John Agosta" <j_agosta@remove_wideopenwest.kom> wrote in message
distortions. If you have some allegations to make against
President Bush, be specific and I will address them point by
point.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
DGVREIMAN
"John Agosta" <j_agosta@remove_wideopenwest.kom> wrote in message
> DouglASS said here what he always says:
> Nothing much.
>
>
> ----------------------
>
>
>
> JA says:
> A top lawyer for GWB's election campaign resigned yesterday
after
> acknowledging that he also advised the Swift Boat for Vetrans'
> anti-Kerry group.
>
client? What is your point?
> This, after USAF Colonel (ret) had retired as an adviser to a
Bush
> campaign's
> vetran organization.
Doug Says: Duh, he was a volunteer, duh, not a member of the
campaign staff.
>
> This, after SBVFT has benefited from wealthy Texas republican
and GOP
> political operatives.
Doug Says: The moveon.org received millions of dollars from Mr.
Soros, a proclaimed Democrat. The 527 groups that are
advertising for Kerry have received 6.2 million dollars, the
Swift Boaters have received about $400,000. Two members of the
Kerry staff, paid members, and one a director of Kerry's campaign
ALSO are running 527 groups that are soliciting money for Kerry's
lies, hype and distortions.
>
Kerry, true to his deceptive form, wants all money to stop coming
into those that are blowing the whistle with first hand accounts
of his pathetic lies about his whopping four months of Vietnam
service (like four months of distortions and lies in Vietnam will
make him a good commander - sure it will) . But Kerry does not
want moveon.org to give its money back to the foreigners and
terrorists that are contributing to its coffers. Moveon.org even
openly solicited money from foreigners, and proclaimed that
foreigners could influence the American election if they would
contribute.
Doug Grant (Tm)
Parson Bob
"Jack Bechtel" <jbec...@bechtel.corp> wrote
> How I spend my money is none of your business.
> Go to hell, pest.
Please lead the way, oh godless sinner.
Ugly Bob
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:02:17 GMT, Jack Bechtel <jbec...@bechtel.corp>
> wrote:
>
> > You think Bechtel Corp is to blame.
>
> Of course they are. That's why the Russians halted NASA.
So, why were there traces of Cyclotrimethylentrinitramine present,
Alexa?
God wanted me to post this
wrote:
> So, why were there traces of Cyclotrimethylentrinitramine present,
>Alexa?
Don't you get tired of posting from so many internet accounts, cup cake?
Aratzio
<g...@god.com> got double secret probation because:
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:29:47 -0700, "Ugly Bob" <ugly_...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> So, why were there traces of Cyclotrimethylentrinitramine present,
>>Alexa?
>
>Don't you get tired of posting from so many internet accounts, cup cake?
Hey Bitch, who said you could use Cupcake? That is a (tm) of Aratzio
Inc a wholly owned subsidiary of the Peenemunde Working Group.
God wanted me to post this
wrote:
But of course, you're all cupcakes, sweetie.
John Agosta
You are incapable of discussing anything, point by point, or otherwise.
Bush is a liar. He says one thing and does the opposite.
He has made us less safe with his nonsense Iraqi war.
His entire administration's MO is to decieve and equivocate
in order to see their goals met.
Just look at how many lobbyists he has appointed to head and serve
in governmental positions. He's on the take, and he has taken you.
But, you're a member of the Bewildered Herd, and there's nothing anyone
can say to shake your blind faith in the numbskull in office.
2 more months to "moo." Enjoy it while it lasts.
John Agosta
Doug, you have been proven time and again to be a liar.
Myself, and others, have exposed your lies.
It's all in the record. You're a proven liar.
Now go away and "moo" to your heart's content.
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
<g...@god.com> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<euhvi0995k2gr4vfd...@4ax.com>:
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:40:14 GMT, Jack Bechtel <jbec...@bechtel.corp>
>wrote:
>
>>Our technology is world class.
>
>B
<SNIP!>
Yer a k00k, AssLexa!
--
V.G.
Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
"I wanted a car I could run down pedestrians with. But one with a comfy ride, like a sofa on wheels." - Father Haskell
"No doubt about it, 9-11 was orchestrated by Lockheed." - *lexa 'connects the dots' 4/27/04 (cg5t80pl73d7r1s81...@4ax.com)
"Nope, Lockheed provided the cover for 9-11 due to abuses of it's system. They're guilty as charged. But ultimately it was Bechtel who concocted the
9-11 events." Alexa connects some totally different dots. 8/6/04 (n3p8h0lvp0u3tj0j4...@4ax.com)
Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
<9552FB3F90...@easynews.com>:
>God wanted me to post this wrote:
>
>> On 27 Aug 2004 13:14:52 -0700, har...@k.st (Harlow) wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the giggle. Isn't it amazing how pompous one Prez. gets
>> when defense contractor profits are more important than self-survival.
>>
>> Perhaps Bechtel and the Bilderbergs are planning on spending their
>> wealth and power in the 'after-life', eh?
>How I spend my money is none of your business.
>Go to hell, pest.
>
>> It certainly won't be on Mars, given their backward technology.
>Our technology is world class.
>You know nothing but lies and crap.
Mars is the Kentucky of planets.
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
<g...@god.com> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<3grvi0d9pjaovpfa8...@4ax.com>:
>On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:02:17 GMT, Jack Bechtel <jbec...@bechtel.corp>
>wrote:
>
>> You think Bechtel Corp is to blame.
>
>Of course
<SNIP!>
Yer a k00k, AssLexa!
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
<LtydnTZZfpC...@comcast.com>:
The Aliens must have put it there!
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
<g...@god.com> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<eo40j0de79dqodvcl...@4ax.com>:
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 22:33:37 -0600, "C.R. Osterwald" <r...@dev.null> wrote:
>
>>When do you get new socks, Alexa?
>
>Are
<SNIP!>
Yer a k00k, AssLexa!
God wanted me to post this
<vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:49:43 GMT, God wanted me to post this
><g...@god.com> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
><euhvi0995k2gr4vfd...@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:40:14 GMT, Jack Bechtel <jbec...@bechtel.corp>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Our technology is world class.
>>
>>B
>
><SNIP!>
>
>Yer a k00k, AssLexa!
You shouldn't call foamy a kook, that's carl's job.
God wanted me to post this
<vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>Mars is the Kentucky of planets.
Heh, the grass is never greener on the other side of the fence, unless of
course there is no grass.
God wanted me to post this
<vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 02:30:08 GMT, God wanted me to post this
><g...@god.com> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
><3grvi0d9pjaovpfa8...@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:02:17 GMT, Jack Bechtel <jbec...@bechtel.corp>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> You think Bechtel Corp is to blame.
>>
>>Of course
>
><SNIP!>
>
>Yer a k00k, AssLexa!
You shouldn't talk about foamy like that, he's more intelligent than Bechtel
any day. <snarf>
God wanted me to post this
<vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:29:47 -0700, "Ugly Bob"
><ugly_...@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
><LtydnTZZfpC...@comcast.com>:
>
>>
>>"God wanted me to post this" <g...@god.com> wrote in message
>>news:3grvi0d9pjaovpfa8...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:02:17 GMT, Jack Bechtel <jbec...@bechtel.corp>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > You think Bechtel Corp is to blame.
>>>
>>> Of course they are. That's why the Russians halted NASA.
>>
>> So, why were there traces of Cyclotrimethylentrinitramine present,
>>Alexa?
>>
>
>The Aliens must have put it there!
Why sure, they're posting to usenet too (not). <grin>
God wanted me to post this
<vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 05:08:29 GMT, God wanted me to post this
><g...@god.com> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
><eo40j0de79dqodvcl...@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 22:33:37 -0600, "C.R. Osterwald" <r...@dev.null> wrote:
>>
>>>When do you get new socks, Alexa?
>>
>>Are
>
><SNIP!>
>
>Yer a k00k, AssLexa!
David is kooky for lesbo ass.
Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 22:09:19 -0700, Aratzio <a6ah...@sneakemail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 05:04:13 GMT, God wanted me to post this
>><g...@god.com> got double secret probation because:
>>
>>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:29:47 -0700, "Ugly Bob" <ugly_...@hotmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, why were there traces of Cyclotrimethylentrinitramine present,
>>>>Alexa?
>>>
>>>Don't you get tired of posting from so many internet accounts, cup cake?
>>
>>Hey Bitch, who said you could use Cupcake? That is a (tm) of Aratzio
>>Inc a wholly owned subsidiary of the Peenemunde Working Group.
>
>But of course
You're a saucerhead k00k!
God wanted me to post this
<vgor...@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:
>You're a saucerhead k00k!
Projection noted.
I rest my case.
God wanted me to post this
wrote:
>
Because the shuttle was carrying weapons.
God wanted me to post this
wrote:
>
Because the shuttle was carrying weapons, missiles to be precise.