Postville, Iowa
PolicySpy
I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
immigration status.
And those that find jobs prove themselves not to be a criminal element and
thus are good immigrants...
Patriot Games
wrote:
>http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080817/after_the_raid.html?.v=4
>I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
>live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
>immigration status.
Irrelevant.
>And those that find jobs prove themselves not to be a criminal element and
>thus are good immigrants...
No, they aren't immigrants. Immigrants are foreigners who have come
to America LEGALLY. They are criminal aliens.
No, they aren't "good." They are criminals who ILLEGALLY invaded our
country.
PolicySpy
>>http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080817/after_the_raid.html?.v=4
>>I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
>>live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
>>immigration status.
>
> Irrelevant.
>
Oh...that's what Chief Insp. Dreyfus said.
Well we have replaced defense of individual rights with support of the
political platform. So we may be too busy to worry about legal standards
such as probable cause...
Now the Supreme Court often says...just let the police do anything they
want. (Well when a private family tried to entrap that white-glove
pop-singer the jury angonized for days and then found the family
discredited. But the police can entrap all they want and as standard
procedure.) And probable cause can be anything in the mind of the
police...as long as it can be expressed.
>>And those that find jobs prove themselves not to be a criminal element and
>>thus are good immigrants...
>
> No, they aren't immigrants. Immigrants are foreigners who have come
> to America LEGALLY. They are criminal aliens.
>
> No, they aren't "good." They are criminals who ILLEGALLY invaded our
> country.
I'm sure that there is a book by Vonnegut or Clarke or someone else...where
the Hobbit says "I just took a little walk and found myself here."
lorad
> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080817/after_the_raid.html?.v=4
>
> I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
> live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
> immigration status.
That's right.. "you don't know"..
Instead, you seem to think that uncontrolled global lawlessness needs
to be imposed on civil lawful societies.
Go open Israel's borders to palestinians.. and tell us how that works
out for you.
> And those that find jobs prove themselves not to be a criminal element and
> thus are good immigrants...
Selling drugs.. or raping US citizens?
No thank you, commie boy.
lorad
> >>http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080817/after_the_raid.html?.v=4
> >>I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
> >>live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
> >>immigration status.
>
> > Irrelevant.
>
> Oh...that's what Chief Insp. Dreyfus said.
He also said; "You imbecile".
> Well we have replaced defense of individual rights with support of the
> political platform.
That's true. Both candidates want to ignore US law in search of
illegal votes.
Such great patriots, eh?
> So we may be too busy to worry about legal standards
> such as probable cause...
Legal remains legal.. whether some laws are enforced or not.. in which
case it becomes 'criminal conspiracy'.
> Now the Supreme Court often says...just let the police do anything they
> want. (Well when a private family tried to entrap that white-glove
> pop-singer the jury angonized for days and then found the family
> discredited. But the police can entrap all they want and as standard
> procedure.) And probable cause can be anything in the mind of the
> police...as long as it can be expressed.
That's why citizens need to question local politicians - before voting
them in.
> >>And those that find jobs prove themselves not to be a criminal element and
> >>thus are good immigrants...
>
> > No, they aren't immigrants. Immigrants are foreigners who have come
> > to America LEGALLY. They are criminal aliens.
>
> > No, they aren't "good." They are criminals who ILLEGALLY invaded our
> > country.
>
> I'm sure that there is a book by Vonnegut or Clarke or someone else...where
> the Hobbit says "I just took a little walk and found myself here."
That's what tens of millions of illegal invaders say annually.
While McCain and Obamba jump with joy.
PolicySpy
>
> I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
> live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
> immigration status.
That's right.. "you don't know"..
Instead, you seem to think that uncontrolled global lawlessness needs
to be imposed on civil lawful societies.
Go open Israel's borders to palestinians.. and tell us how that works
out for you.
---------------------------------------------------
I think that an immigrant that has a job and a place to live has proven
themselves to be a good immigrant.
And the meat packing industries, the agricultural industries, and the hotel
industries...need the workers.
To deny the immigrant that has a place for them...might be elegant in the
mind but could shut down the economy.
-------------------------------------------------
> And those that find jobs prove themselves not to be a criminal element and
> thus are good immigrants...
Selling drugs.. or raping US citizens?
No thank you, commie boy.
---------------------------------------------------
Concentrations of immigrants in big cities has always produced organized
crime. Italian, Irish, Russian, Chinese, Mexican, and everyone else. But the
majority work in jobs and just know about the rackets...
---------------------------------------------------
lorad
> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080817/after_the_raid.html?.v=4
>
> > I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
> > live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
> > immigration status.
>
> That's right.. "you don't know"..
> Instead, you seem to think that uncontrolled global lawlessness needs
> to be imposed on civil lawful societies.
> Go open Israel's borders to palestinians.. and tell us how that works
> out for you.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> I think that an immigrant that has a job and a place to live has proven
> themselves to be a good immigrant.
Taking jobs away from US citizens is not beneficial to US citizens.
It is a crime.
So is... taking away US taxpayer money in the form of medical care,
education, housing, epidemiology, crime, incarceration costs, loss of
real value, loss of economic opportunity, pollution and loss of the
environment, etc
..all without the legal consent of US ctizenry who in fact established
laws prohibiting illegal immigration.
> And the meat packing industries, the agricultural industries, and the hotel
> industries...need the workers.
Need workers?
They had US workers.
And because they did not want to pay US workers $18/hr.. they fired US
workers and replaced them with illegal scab labor from who-knows-
where.
Get rid of the illegals and Americans can have decent jobs again.
> To deny the immigrant that has a place for them...might be elegant in the
> mind but could shut down the economy.
Phoque some criminal economy and the criminals that employ them..
let's get back to an American economy.
PolicySpy
> And the meat packing industries, the agricultural industries, and the
> hotel
> industries...need the workers.
Need workers?
They had US workers.
And because they did not want to pay US workers $18/hr.. they fired US
workers and replaced them with illegal scab labor from who-knows-
where.
----------------------------------------------------
An $18 an hour hotel maid ?
And would you pick tomatos or pluck chickens if the pay was $18 an hour ?
But yeah the Democrat's solution to illegal immigration is to raise the
minimum wage. But does that convince some companies not to stay in the U.S.
? (For instance it was in the news that tomatos picked in the U.S. are often
trucked to Mexico to be sorted.)
----------------------------------------------------
lorad
> > And the meat packing industries, the agricultural industries, and the
> > hotel
> > industries...need the workers.
>
> Need workers?
> They had US workers.
> And because they did not want to pay US workers $18/hr.. they fired US
> workers and replaced them with illegal scab labor from who-knows-
> where.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> An $18 an hour hotel maid ?
That would be good pay for some citizens... those who used to do it.
> And would you pick tomatos or pluck chickens if the pay was $18 an hour ?
That would be good pay for some citizens.... those who used to do it.
> But yeah the Democrat's solution to illegal immigration is to raise the
> minimum wage. But does that convince some companies not to stay in the U.S.
> ? (For instance it was in the news that tomatos picked in the U.S. are often
> trucked to Mexico to be sorted.)
And that could be easily changed by enforcing an import quota.. just
as the US had when it was an economic powerhouse.
Illegal immigration only benefits a few neocon crooks who value their
dollars much more than they value the country of their operations.
PS: Assuming one picker can collect 12 bushels an hour..
Assuming that 12 bushels weigh 636 lbs..
Assuming that the US picker would cost $11 dollars more an hour than
the mexican scab..
The cost of my grocery tomatoes would increase by only 1.7 cents per
pound.
..And americans could still have jobs they they could survive on.
... instead of illegals reducing american wage rates and draining US
taxpayer money that was put in the treasury for the benefit of the
citizens who put it there in the first place.
PolicySpy
The illegal immigrant hiring appears to be systematic rather than
opportunistic:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO9WZoMijd4RZonKDKU4OabjtjkgD92MC1500
But if an employer has difficult to fill jobs they ought to be able to go
recruit foreign workers...ones who are known to work well in the industry
involved. And then the immigrants involved have jobs rather than be
immigrants coming to America hoping for jobs.
Patriot Games
wrote:
>>>http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080817/after_the_raid.html?.v=4
>>>I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
>>>live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
>>>immigration status.
>> Irrelevant.
>Oh...that's what Chief Insp. Dreyfus said.
>Well we have replaced defense of individual rights with support of the
>political platform. So we may be too busy to worry about legal standards
>such as probable cause...
You FAILED to prove that the raid on the plant was WITHOUT Probable
Cause.
>>>And those that find jobs prove themselves not to be a criminal element and
>>>thus are good immigrants...
>> No, they aren't immigrants. Immigrants are foreigners who have come
>> to America LEGALLY. They are criminal aliens.
>> No, they aren't "good." They are criminals who ILLEGALLY invaded our
>> country.
>I'm sure that there is a book by Vonnegut or Clarke or someone else...where
>the Hobbit says "I just took a little walk and found myself here."
Thanks for proving in public that you're a FOOL and saving me the
time.
PolicySpy
>>>>I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
>>>>live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
>>>>immigration status.
>
> You FAILED to prove that the raid on the plant was WITHOUT Probable
> Cause.
>
Well the Federal operation probably found items in local police reports that
allowed them to investigate further. Or employee data sent in for
verification by the employer may have just been investigated. The biggest
case is against a supervisor and not the company...and the case is identity
thief...probably just for social security numbers for the workers to use.
But anyone using low wage employees can just be rationalized as a suspect of
illegal immigrant hiring ? Or anyone that works at a company that has low
wage employees can be rationalized as a suspected illegal immigrant ?
That's like "Show Your Papers !, Show Your Papers !"
But ID can be asked for with little probable cause. And if a person won't
give their ID then they are either not sane or they are guilty.
Really the politicans talked about guest worker programs, about ten years
employment towards earning citizenship (and employer penalties for hiring
the workers), about credit card companies providing an ID system, about
immigrants paying fines, and about many other things. But the real experts
to the situation are the industries that need the workers. And the
immigrants with jobs are not the problem immigrants. Furthermore the
immigrants needing false ID's are the ones paying taxes and social security
!
Patriot Games
wrote:
>>>>>http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080817/after_the_raid.html?.v=4
>>>>>I don't know...anyone who can get here, find a job, and find a place to
>>>>>live...doesn't seem to offer a probable cause for investigation of their
>>>>>immigration status.
>> You FAILED to prove that the raid on the plant was WITHOUT Probable
>> Cause.
>Well the Federal operation probably found items in local police reports that
>allowed them to investigate further. Or employee data sent in for
>verification by the employer may have just been investigated. The biggest
>case is against a supervisor and not the company...and the case is identity
>thief...probably just for social security numbers for the workers to use.
Which IS probable cause.
>Really the politicans talked about guest worker programs, about ten years
>employment towards earning citizenship (and employer penalties for hiring
>the workers), about credit card companies providing an ID system, about
>immigrants paying fines, and about many other things.
All of which got put on hold when the Democrats wanted even criminals
to get Amnesty.
>But the real experts
>to the situation are the industries that need the workers. And the
>immigrants with jobs are not the problem immigrants.
Since you are unable to distinguish between an illegal alien and a
legal immigrant your sentence makes no sense.
>Furthermore the immigrants needing false ID's are the ones paying
>taxes and social security!
Legal immigrants don't need false IDs. When legal immigrants have
state/federal taxes and social security deducted from their pay that
money actually gets to the state/federal treasuries.
Illegal aliens do need false IDs. When illegal aliens have
state/federal taxes and social security deducted from their pay that
money DOES NOT get to the state/federal treasuries.
PolicySpy
>
> Illegal aliens do need false IDs. When illegal aliens have
> state/federal taxes and social security deducted from their pay that
> money DOES NOT get to the state/federal treasuries.
>
Here's a link to an article's highlights:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/04/15/immigrant.taxes.ap/index.html
And so the article must be around somewhere...
But there are immigrant advocates that quantify the amount that illegal
immigrants pay in taxes and there are anti-immigrant sources that say that
illegal immigrants get more in benefits than they pay in taxes.
But here's the thing. The illegal immigrants in the meat packing industries,
in the hotel industries, and those that work for major construction
companies...have permanent or long term jobs. They pay taxes and seldom need
benefits. But those that work for local subcontractors may have short term
jobs and then they are hanging around waiting for the next job and likely
need benefit assistance. And agricultural jobs may be long term or short
term..
So the major industries that have jobs for illegal immigrants are not the
problem. The problem are the situations of short term jobs for the illegal
immigrants.
Patriot Games
wrote:
>> Illegal aliens do need false IDs. When illegal aliens have
>> state/federal taxes and social security deducted from their pay that
>> money DOES NOT get to the state/federal treasuries.
>Here's a link to an article's highlights:
>http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/04/15/immigrant.taxes.ap/index.html
>And so the article must be around somewhere...
>But there are immigrant advocates that quantify the amount that illegal
>immigrants pay in taxes
There's no argument that some criminal beaners get taxes withheld from
their pay. But even YOU can figure out that that money NEVER gets to
a State or Fed Treasury since criminal beaners DO NOT HAVE valid
social security numbers.
Most of the time those quotes are based on SALES TAX estimates.
>and there are anti-immigrant sources that say that
>illegal immigrants get more in benefits than they pay in taxes.
Yep, and its true.
>But here's the thing. The illegal immigrants in the meat packing industries,
>in the hotel industries, and those that work for major construction
>companies...have permanent or long term jobs. They pay taxes and seldom need
>benefits.
They don't pay taxes. See above.
>So the major industries that have jobs for illegal immigrants are not the
>problem. The problem are the situations of short term jobs for the illegal
>immigrants.
Anybody employing a criminal beaner is a problem.
PolicySpy
> They don't pay taxes. See above.
>
No there are sources that quantify illegal immigrants paying income taxes
and social security. Now I don't know how the paperwork goes...
In fact one thing not mentioned here is the fast food industry...and there
are a lot of spanish accent fast food workers in the major metros.
> Anybody employing a criminal beaner is a problem.
No, there Hobbits.
See that was just creative. Tolkien's Hobbit is a short fat person that eats
pastry and likes to go on adventures. (It took me years to figure that out
but Tolkien was a school teacher so the Hobbits were the students.)
Now a Guatemalan might be a short wide person that eats complex
carbohydrates and likes to go looking for work...
PolicySpy
It's just a big mistake to force a percentage of the population underground:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080826/immigration_raid.html?.v=8
It's also a mistake to criminalize working a long term job and to
criminalize paying taxes...
Patriot Games
wrote:
>> They don't pay taxes. See above.
>No there are sources that quantify illegal immigrants paying income taxes
>and social security. Now I don't know how the paperwork goes...
You MUST HAVE a Social Security number to have your taxes paid and
counted. Criminal Beaners DO NOT have valid Social Security numbers.
DUH.....
>In fact one thing not mentioned here is the fast food industry...and there
>are a lot of spanish accent fast food workers in the major metros.
Who cares?
The POINT is they are NOT paying into the Treasury while they ARE
TAKING from it.