trimbach's book
Monica
aggrandizement, and twists on truth. The funniest was that trimbach
and his agents came under nightly attack by the people they had
surrounded and it was stressful for them. He continually quotes two
elves as a modern day hero. He holds up Kamook as the symbol of
American Indian womanhood. He gloats that Kamook sat with the fbi at
Arlo's trial. He got the girl. At the end he says that Kamook got
crucial evidence by taping Troy Lynn and Arlo. Without their knowledge
I assume. If the statements she got by taping was so crucial, why
wasn't it presented at Arlo's trial. Was Arlo again so drunk or stoned
that he didn't know what he was saying? That would explain why it
wasn't used. We have to trust trimbach's word that it held something
incriminating. Since Kamook is an fbi collaborator trimbach expunges
her complicity and guilt in everything AIM. Kamook awakens to "AIM's
guilt" in the death of Anna Mae. She begins her own investigation into
the case. Kamook according to Trimbach is the kindest person in the
world. She doesn't even hold it against her "best friend" that she was
having an affair with her husband. Trimbach doesn't recognize Kamook
as Dennis' wife. He continually calls her Dennis' common law wife.
Trimbach's racism leaks through though he tries to control it. His
sexism spews all over the place. It's funny how he names and describes
the many women duped by Peltier. He lists the many famous and
intelligent people (The Dalai Lama, Senator Inouye, etc.) who believe
in Leonard's innocence and work to free him. He names and attacks
hollywood movie stars for being so naive as to be hoodwinked by AIM.
He gives his interpretation of Price's words to Anna Mae. That if she
didn't cooperate she would be dead before the year was over. We are
told that Price was actually warning Anna Mae that she was in danger
of being killed by AIm. Trimbach states that unscrupulous AIM spin
meisters twisted those words. He takes on each "myth" that has grown
up around WK73 and Pine Ridge. He denies that the fbi armed the goons
despite Duane Brewers appearances in documentaries stating that they
did. Brewer laughs as he tells how the fbi provided them with armor
piercing rounds. Trimbach calls up Brewer and elicits a retraction and
statement that Matthiessen etc. took his statement out of context. He
says an fbi agent friend gave him the armor piercing rounds so he
could protect his wife and children. Couldn't that fbi agent be
brought up on charges for givin bullets that were only available to
the military to a civilian to be used against a militant group?
Trimbach doesn't think to ask or answer that question. Trimbach also
praises paulprice for doing a 180 degree turn in his support of
Pelter. Yet he refers to paulprice later on as a self-proclaimed
expert on AIM, Anna Mae and the fbi. More subtle racism. He credits
two elves recitation of discovering that his brother was sexually
abusing his own daughter as awakening him to this dark part of Indian
life today. Two elves posted that story on alt.native. He had also
said that his brother had abused two elves daughter. I emailed two
elves off list and told him that he should get his daughter and niece
into counseling so that their healing can begin. I confided that I was
a survivor. When I began defending Arlo's right to be considered
innocent until proven guilty, two elves used that against me,
threatening to make my pain public. That is no modern day hero to me.
We all knew going in that the book was a white wash of the fbi's
criminal activities against Indian people. Trimbach quotes Russell
means as saying that Tim Giagos paper is only worthy of being used in
the outhouse. Trimbach's book is too slimy for even that.
O'Brien
reading it.
Kamook taped an Arlo interview? she was probably trying to sell it to
Rodney Grunt Productions. it's funny, when I talked to her in 1984
outside Mother Butler Center, unloading groceries from an old
Protector-Buick for the troops, she said nothing at all against AIM
re: Anna Mae. Not a hint of collaboration. She had me conned, flirty
flirty! you know what suckers we honky breed-wasichus are! (Oh yeah,
the meeting rally was for her husband Dennis, getting sentenced the
next day in Custer}
Does Trimbach name his old buddy Wart Churchill?
Monica
He mentions Churchill and is soft on him. He just basically calls him
Means buddy. He blames AIM for Anna Mae's murder yet offers no
evidence. He claims that Hendricks offered no evidence in his book.
Half of Hendricks book is endnotes. He claims that the fbi imploded
AIM from within. I assume that is by the nonexistent cointel tactics
and fbi plants. He defends his decisions and actions during WK. He
thinks he has been maligned by history. He blames a liberal press for
vilifying him and making heroes of AIM. The book was hard to read
because of it's slant and lies. I had to force myself to wade through
it. It saddened me that he used Anna Mae as a weapon to get AIM as
two elves and paulprice are doing. He doesn't care any more about her
than they do. He defends Dick Wilson's administration as being one of
the best and msot progressive. He says the goons were hired to protect
Wilson from AIM/ He also states that they were there to protect the
people from AIM's invasion. He states that one year Leonard's defense
committee raised 5 million. He says at one point that he didn't want
his grandchildren to believe how history portrays him. He wrote the
book so they would know "the truth."
Flint_...@hotmail.com
> Excellent review, Monica,
review?...
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
right...shur...Uh-Huh...
Monica
I didn't crawl on my belly to kiss "ol joe's" feet. But apparently,
according to his book, you did that enough for the rest of us. Indians
will never have to crawl to a white man ever again.
Paul Wolf
testimony in the Looking Cloud trial. It's not clear why she turned on
her old comrades. One line of questioning in the trial was about why,
if she were best friends with Aquash, and Aquash was kept hostage for
months and months, she did nothing to help her friend?
One thing that doesn't make sense to me is that if they thought Aquash
was an informant, they would threaten her with a gun, hold her
hostage, and then kill her after a room full of witnesses supposedly
sees her tied up to a board. To me this sounds like asking for
trouble. The rational thing to do, if she were an informant, would be
to ban her from the group, not hold her hostage for 6 months and then
kill her. That would be a suicidal course of action and it doesn't
make sense as a motive. To me it seems more like an anti-motive.
There are two different versions of why she was staying in people's
houses. One is that she was a hostage for something like six months or
more. The second was that she was a fugitive and those people were
helping to hide her. People seem to be accepting a middle ground, that
somehow both of those things were going on at the same time, but this
also sounds strange to me. If AIM thought she worked for the FBI why
would they take her from one safe house to the next? Then the FBI
would know where all the safe houses were, and all the safehouse
owners would have been harboring a fugitive and Aquash could have
testified against all of them. This would shut down AIM's safehouses
and put a lot of them behind bars. If AIM thought she were an
informant, why would they want to do this?
There is an endless list of things that dont add up in this case, but
if someone can explain what the motives of these people were, it would
make a lot more sense.
Flint_...@hotmail.com
> but
> if someone can explain what the motives of these people were, it would
> make a lot more sense.
bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Ho ho ho ho ho...
Hee hee hee hee hee...
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"but if someone can explain..."
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Datz RICH...
wha Soot...U Betta den Twinkle Toez...
Give Dat Monkey Hiz BoNanaZ Mad Moo...
oldwifetale
I have been reading the court transcripts. The reason is because these
two cases (Arlo's and John's) are being given to the 'white man's
court system' which is composed of people on the outside (like me) who
are very inappropriately called a "jury of his peers". I wanted to put
myself in their place, see what they have heard, understand if it is
even 'reasonable' to be able to come to any type of conclusion.
What strikes *me* as odd is how Kamook was told that Anna Mae was
intimately involved with Dennis Banks about the same time that
'rumors' were going around that Anna Mae was an informant and that
there'd been a confrontation with Peltier. All in the same time
period, around June (the beginning of the 6 months that she was either
'hiding' or being told she couldn't go home). Three things at the same
time seem more than 'coincidental'.
IF... (and only IF) it was true that she had been involved with Dennis
Banks, and that Peltier did put a gun to her head... it is chilling to
imagine the state of fear she might have been in by the time she
travelled here to Washington... with a man who'd threatened her life
already about being an informant (and then jokingly referred to giving
her truth serum - how menacing is *that*?), and the wife of a man
she'd been sleeping with... who says in her testimony that Anna Mae
was being kept "close" in order to be "watched". By all accounts, Anna
Mae was not a stupid woman. She would have been intensely aware of all
the seeds of suspicion that had been planted about her. And even if
there was only truth in the one about Dennis Banks, to travel with the
man's wife to a location so far from her home... would have been
extremely uncomfortable to say the least. I don't find it hard at all
to understand why Kamook wasn't more 'protective', but i find it hard
to understand how this scenario would be very tolerable for either
woman.
Another question that comes up in my mind while reading the
testimonies is:
IF... they didn't think she was an fbi informant, then why would they
want to keep a watch on her? But as you said, if they *did* think she
was an informant, then why let her stay in safehouses? It would give
away the locations. The only reason i can come up with - that would
answer *both* questions - is that maybe it wasn't the fear that she
would inform the 'fbi' about something, but maybe that she would
inform *other people* about something.
Is that possible?
It seems to me that even IF Arlo and John were directly responsible
for Anna Mae's death, that they were not *ultimately* responsible...
in the sense that someone else higher up the ladder had set the whole
thing into motion. At the same time, while not trusting fbi one whit,
i have to wonder how she would be better to the fbi dead than merely
'banished' and left vulnerable enough for them to bring her over to
the 'their side'... if only by making her believe it was for her own
safety. She had information they could have used. It's easy for me to
'believe' that fbi had her killed. What's not easy is finding a motive
for doing so - in terms of what was presented in court.
I am just going off the actual transcripts and nothing else, which is
all a jury has to work with in determining what happened. That's all
John Graham's jury will have also. Since my 'opinion' based on
information that gets provided *outside* the courtroom means nothing
whatsoever, i am trying to see it through the juror's eyes because
theirs are the only *opinions* that did/will make any difference.
O'Brien
anonymously on the Graham website {their decision, Matthew Lien's to
post them anonymously, not mine, as I had nothing to hide [but maybe
he, suspiciously, did?] (something's fishy up in Vancouver)} - I can
tell you the jury couldn't come to any other decision about Arlo's
guilt. It was palpable in the Rancid City courthouse, and town.
It was all sealed and delivered by that awful videotape of Arlo's
torture-interrogation in the Denver PD. THAT's what convicted Arlo, to
the jury, and the courtroom in general. It was obvious from all that
stuff and the other "testimonies".
It was horrifying. I was shocked by the ramroding nature of amerikan
"justice". The jury couldn't have come to any other judgement,given
what was presented to them.
> theirs are the only *opinions* that did/will make any difference.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
O'Brien
obvious from some of these excellent posts a lot of sharp folks are
monitoring it too, including the cointel boys and girls.
Kamook and Ecoffey: women especially have never trusted her, I've
noticed in my many contacts and observations of her and her Co.,
including hollywood, over 30 years, and of course Dennis had a brutal
streak of violence and jealousy when it came to women. Oscar Singer,
one of his Navajo bodyguards at WK, said Dennis put a gun to his head
when he thought Oscar was messing with his woman {I forget who he said
she was, at that particularly moment}. Oscar admired Dennis, but he
was sure he was going to be killed that time. That stuff surrely
inflames Kamook's reactions, since; and like so many others in the
Movement I think most of the time she was trying to do what was right.
Which would explain Anna Mae's friendship with her. I doubt Anna Mae
had an affair with Dennis, given the volatile tensions in his
personality already, and the normal female dynamics. But I don't know,
of course. Kamook of course knew all of AIM's flaws, as we all did,
and didn't need fbi to tell us so.
I didn't see Kamook sitting in the courtroom at all, let alone with
the FBI. But maybe I missed her. (and she was always friendly to me,
probably hoping for a hollywood contact, but also, I think she was
genuinely trying to get something done positive; that of course again
could be my male stupidity - so if she was anywhere outside of the
witness room backstage she'd have probably come over and said hello)
In general, the pigs and establishment media sat on the left side of
the packed courtroom, and Arlo supporters and family on the right side
behind him and Rensch - Demain and Claypoole and Means sat on the ...
left side.
Of course there were no Colorado aimsters there, who claim to care
sooo much.
Nor did that idiot Giago bother to drive across town to cover the
historic trial, but sent a flunky kid, who wrote an incompetent and
deliberately forgettable narrative of it.
Paul, I don't think there was roomful of people who saw Anna Mae tied
to a board. Conflicting testimonies, some of whom didn't mention the
Angie Begay-Janis board story at all, and Rensch effectively
discredited it, almost laughing at the idea. I don't think the jury
believed it either. It was one of those surreal, unbelievable moments
in the trial. Angie was a mess. (and a former wife of Dennis, and
mother of at least one kid - the bastard had BIG troubles with a lot
of women, including plausible stories of rape of teenage girls)
Yes, as far as the treatment of informants, they had a public press
conference denouncing that previous mole Doug Durham and sent him on
his way back to police headquarters. They did not assassinate him - as
R. Means rants he would do to informants in his book.
the motive: is that Anna Mae knew David Hill killed the cops at
Oglala, and Hill was and is the ultimate undercover/overcover
informant provocateur. Even at Arlo's trial - it's all over the
transcript - both defense counsel and prosecutors kept bringing up his
name: Thelma Rios' husband, etc. Anna Mae knew too much, and she
wasn't afraid to talk, exposing the pigs posing as AIM.
Hill is a very charming con man. Kamook testified he talked Anna Mae
into putting her fingerprints on bombs. He traveled everywhere with
her in Brando's RV. He was and is Leonard's right hand man, a right on
Choctaw Bro.
Finally, oldwifetale, they're going to easily convict John Graham on
Arlo Looking Cloud's confession, based on the illegal Denver PD
interrogation. Case closed. I believe John that he had nothing to do
with the killing: why would he? And Arlo just seemed to be hopelessly
confused about the whole goddamn thing, and cynical, resigned. But
John remains the fly in the ointment, hence the incredible 4-year
delay, and counting, in his "trial". And a Grand Jury has been
convened mysteriously. Rumor has it R. Means has also been subpoenaed
for about the 3rd time, in GJs.
Hill walks, Churchill gets his multimillion dollar settlement from CU,
Means is a movie star and Treaty Champ.
oldwifetale
> As one who sat through the whole "trial' - and recorded notes posted
> anonymously on the Graham website {their decision, Matthew Lien's to
> post them anonymously, not mine, as I had nothing to hide [but maybe
> he, suspiciously, did?] (something's fishy up in Vancouver)} - I can
> tell you the jury couldn't come to any other decision about Arlo's
> guilt. It was palpable in the Rancid City courthouse, and town.
>
> It was all sealed and delivered by that awful videotape of Arlo's
> torture-interrogation in the Denver PD. THAT's what convicted Arlo, to
> the jury, and the courtroom in general. It was obvious from all that
> stuff and the other "testimonies".
>
> It was horrifying. I was shocked by the ramroding nature of amerikan
> "justice". The jury couldn't have come to any other judgement,given
> what was presented to them.
>
I didn't see in the transcripts how they could come to any other
decision either. Which is why i get a little confused about those who
are convinced of Arlo's innocence wanting to 'prove' John Graham's
innocence in the 'american justice system'. Obviously there is a
selection process in what can be presented as evidence, and what
can't. Knowing this, when a case is depending on the 'american justice
system', you have to accept the findings of a jury whether it's
innocence or guilt unless you can come up with *allowable evidence*
that would warrant an appeal. I'm no lawyer, but isn't that how it's
done?
The same selective process is going to occur in this next trial. And
each side is going to present what they think is relevant evidence to
support either innocence or guilt. However... what is the point of a
long court trial when the jury's decision is not going to be accepted
unless they say the defendant is innocent? You are apparently looking
at everything as an AIM supporter, and not through the eyes of the
'white man's court system' or of a jury that is composed of people who
do not know anything about anything in 'indian country'. This
responsibility is being placed on people who can only work with what
is presented to them in the courtroom, they have no personal
background that allows them to 'read between the lines' or notice some
glaring omission in evidence.
And because this does involve AIM members... there is a problem in
terms of trying the case in 'ndn country'. I've been given to
understand that all tribes have their own Ways, and that there is no
*one* indian way of doing things, no pan-indian way of settling all
matters such as the murder of this woman. I can see how this would
have been resolved and the truth perhaps known if the tribes of those
involved had come together to 'decide' on how everything should go.
But that can't seem to happen. And because there is suspicion of fbi
involvement, what kind of justice could occur if it turned out to be
true? On the other hand, if AIM does suspect the fbi was responsible
for the murder... why would the outcome of a trial in the 'white man's
justice system' be satisfactory? In football terms, that is not
exactly playing on your own home field. How could anyone expect that
an fbi involvement would be revealed in such an environment? So i am
confused about AIM's position on all of this too.
You seem to already 'know' that Arlo and John Graham are innocent. I
am not sure how anyone can know this for sure, or with such absolute
certainty. Whereas some people say John Graham and Arlo were there
with Anna Mae (including Arlo - and not only in the interview), no one
has come forward to say, "No, they were not there... they were here."
The court transcripts of Arlo's trial seem to point in the direction
of guilt. I don't know how the juror's could have come to any other
conclusion - right or wrong. So i am assuming that in the upcoming
trial, you know of evidence that will be presented which will prove
conclusively that neither Arlo or John Graham were with Anna Mae when
she was murdered... OR will be able to show who did kill her... or
some other kind of solid evidence. Otherwise... how is this trial
expected to be different than Arlo's? The 'american justice system'
is not really about finding *the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth* - it is about deciding the innocence or guilt of an
individual "beyond a reasonable doubt". When this happened in Arlo's
trial, people were not satisfied. IF it happens in JG's trial, people
will not be satisfied. So what is the point of it... unless it's a
gamble?
lo...@inorbit.com
That Anna Mae was murdered because of David Hill. Everything has been
so convoluted and winding. And yes, John Graham willl most likely be
convicted. And the ones MOST responsible will walk away.
> > the outhouse. Trimbach's book is too slimy for even that.- Hide quoted text -
oldwifetale
> Hill is a very charming con man. Kamook testified he talked Anna Mae
> into putting her fingerprints on bombs. He traveled everywhere with
> her in Brando's RV. He was and is Leonard's right hand man, a right on
> Choctaw Bro.
>
> Finally, oldwifetale, they're going to easily convict John Graham on
> Arlo Looking Cloud's confession, based on the illegal Denver PD
> interrogation. Case closed. I believe John that he had nothing to do
> with the killing: why would he? And Arlo just seemed to be hopelessly
> confused about the whole goddamn thing, and cynical, resigned. But
> John remains the fly in the ointment, hence the incredible 4-year
> delay, and counting, in his "trial". And a Grand Jury has been
> convened mysteriously. Rumor has it R. Means has also been subpoenaed
> for about the 3rd time, in GJs.
>
> Hill walks, Churchill gets his multimillion dollar settlement from CU,
> Means is a movie star and Treaty Champ.
So no hopes were hanging on this trial? I was under the assumption
(from your previous posts) that there were. I'm not 'attached' to
anyone's innocence or guilt. I was asked to comment on the issue
before, and declined, but once i did make comments,... i felt commited
somehow to follow up by looking more closely at the transcripts to see
what was actually presented in court. Paul Wolf is a lawyer. I have
responded to his posts twice now, hoping for an actual 'legal'
explanation for various points he made, but with no response.
Btw i have to say that i've seen alot of paranoia in this matter... it
seems as though anyone on the 'outside' who questions the *opinions*
of an AIM member/supporter is automatically an fbi agent or a cointel
person. At first i was offended... even a little 'hurt'... but now i
am beginning to wonder about such things. It's either paranoia or
blindness (because i only work for myself), but it seems like a common
tactic to plant seeds of suspicion about people who only manage to ask
the 'wrong questions' in an intelligent way.
Whatever it is, it stinks.
And also - it doesn't matter to me if you were in the courtroom, or
who you 'know' or how many names you keep dropping. What was said in
court is what was said in court, it's in the transcripts whether you
were there or not. And that is all i have been commenting on here. The
transcripts.
No matter if Arlo and John Graham were proven innocent or guilty, it
is OBVIOUS that people are walking away scot-free when they shouldn't
be. Is David Hill one of them? I wouldn't know; all anyone has to go
by is the evidence and/or the possibilities that are presented. But
don't expect an 'outsider' to decide that you are telling the truth as
opposed to those who are *sworn in* to tell the truth... without
showing more evidence, and i don't mean in other cases (where someone
might have lied about this or that) but in the case of Anna Mae's
murder. You can't expect anyone on the outside to 'pick a side' and
still remain impartial or objective at the same time - including the
jurors. If the truth was so clear, picking a side would be a moot
point. To me the truth is *not* clear, not even with what has been
said 'outside' of the courtroom. So i'm just picking the side of
truth... WHATEVER IT TURNS OUT TO BE. If you have a problem with that,
i can't help it.
O'Brien
The forensic trail was lost 32 years ago when they moved the body from
the wanblee ravine. It can't even be proven that was Anna Mae's body
at all, including from the autopsy photos shown on a big screen in
court - the body's face was blackened from exposure and even the
coroner said he couldn't identify. no habeas corpus. Those kinds of
visuals don't translate in written transcripts. Very emotional impact
on a jury.
ALL the prosecution has is the bizarre "confession" on police
videotape of Arlo looking Cloud in Denver in 2003. He has no lawyer
present, and he's obviously inebriated, even to the police. That's it.
And from the online transcripts I've seen the videotape is not
included. Does anyone have a copy of that to post here? It would be
helpful. I saw it and made notes, but they're not word-for-word. It
flashed by real fast - and real effective.
Where the hope comes in that Graham will get a fair trial, is that he
himself denies any involvement at all, unlike Arlo's passiveness and
silence in his trial. Arlo had kind of a resigned attitude. John and
his lawyers correctly point out that there is no evidence at all. If
he's convicted it'll be on emotional impacts against radical, violent
AIM in South Dakota, still a VERY big visceral factor here.
It's kind of like a reverse-O.J. Factor. Guilt or innocence is
secondary to Race and Terror, raw animal stuff.
> i can't help it.- Hide quoted text -
donnasch...@gmail.com
It's very confusing when you top-post because i don't know which parts
you are responding to. I tried to find a video of the confession
online, but if it's there, i can't find it. When i read the
transcripts, there was no transcription of the videotaped confession,
only the transcripts of testimonies, examinations and cross-
examinations, plus meetings between attorneys and the judge at the
bench.
Whether Arlo and/or John G. are declared innocent or guilty, it is
very obvious that other people are literally getting away with murder
- there is no doubt either way that her death was ordered by 'someone'
in a higher position than either Arlo or John Graham. So even if it
was found that one pulled the trigger and the other was present at the
time... there are people who are not being held accountable.
Obviously. Whether it was fbi or AIM members with the 'authority' to
put out the order, the fact is that Anna Mae was murdered. So what
happens once John Graham is declared innocent or guilty? A guilty
verdict will never be accepted. Will AIM fight so hard as they have
for Arlo and John Graham... to find those who were truly responsible
for the murder of this woman who was one of their own?
If what you 'believe' is true... then the truth about the murder of
Anna Mae continues to go unresolved after all these years. How is that
acceptable? How is it possible that the truth of her murder has become
secondary to the 'verdict' of two men? The truth would either free or
condemn them, rightfully either way. To me it seems... somehow only
common sense... that proving the truth is where the real 'hopes'
should be... not on proving innocence or guilt, which would be proven
all by itself if only the truth was solidly established.
What actually did happen to her, and why?
That solves everything.
goodl...@gmail.com
This review does not do justice to the excellent, informative book
written by a man whose credentials are impeccable. If "Monica" knew
Kamook , she would not, I am certain, refer to her as "the girl." I
have known Kamook for nearly thirty years, and was a guest in the
Banks house. Kamook is a good woman, a strong woman, ans she's got
more spirituality in her little finger than Dennis Banks and Russell
Means rolled into one. Women who attempt to besmirch her are
repeating the lies of a handful of AIM thugs,scared in their old age
that the truth will out. I repeat, so that everyone reading this note
can reflect on it: Kamook Banks Ecoffey is a brave, solid, and
truthful Oglala Lakota woman, respected by Oglala Lakota people on her
reservation, and any public vilification of her can only stem from
ignorance and by repeating the slurs of a few AIMsters afraid of the
truth.
Paul Wolf
> written by a man whose credentials are impeccable. If "Monica" knew
> Kamook , she would not, I am certain, refer to her as "the girl." I
> have known Kamook for nearly thirty years, and was a guest in the
> Banks house. Kamook is a good woman, a strong woman, ans she's got
> more spirituality in her little finger than Dennis Banks and Russell
> Means rolled into one. Women who attempt to besmirch her are
> repeating the lies of a handful of AIM thugs,scared in their old age
> that the truth will out. I repeat, so that everyone reading this note
> can reflect on it: Kamook Banks Ecoffey is a brave, solid, and
> truthful Oglala Lakota woman, respected by Oglala Lakota people on her
> reservation
.. who wears a wire for the FBI sometimes and tries to get her friends
to incriminate themselves. There's something inherently dishonest
about pretending to be someone's friend while secretly be working to
end their lives. It's an eithical dilemma that undercover police
have to rationalize. I'm sure that many do so by dehumanizing the
people they are after, or taking the attitude that the end justifies
the means. It's one thing to spy on someone, another to pretend to be
their friend to get information. The same criticism applies to Two
Elks.
When a person who is not a law enforcement officer acts in an
undercover role, the question of motive always comes up. Most people,
if told their good friend or family member committed a crime, would
instinctively not believe it, and defend the person. Particularly in
this case, where there is no evidence whatsoever of who committed the
crime. Most of the time, when you have civilians wearing wires, they
do so because they're threatened with prosecution themselves. In Ms
Ecoffey's case, I don't know the motivation. I would have to agree
with her that $40,000 is not a lot of money to be paid to convert into
a police informant. Neither her or Two Elks knows who committed the
crime.
David to answer your question, Ms Ecoffey could not be in the room for
the trial because of the witness rule. Witnesses are not supposed to
hear any other witnesses testify. They can only be in the courtroom
for their own testimony.
Flint_...@hotmail.com
> > This review does not do justice to the excellent, informative book
> > written by a man whose credentials are impeccable. If "Monica" knew
> > Kamook , she would not, I am certain, refer to her as "the girl." I
> > have known Kamook for nearly thirty years, and was a guest in the
> > Banks house. Kamook is a good woman, a strong woman, ans she's got
> > more spirituality in her little finger than Dennis Banks and Russell
> > Means rolled into one. Women who attempt to besmirch her are
> > repeating the lies of a handful of AIM thugs,scared in their old age
> > that the truth will out. I repeat, so that everyone reading this note
> > can reflect on it: Kamook Banks Ecoffey is a brave, solid, and
> > truthful Oglala Lakota woman, respected by Oglala Lakota people on her
> > reservation
>
> .. who wears a wire for the FBI sometimes and tries to get her friends
> to incriminate themselves.
O My Gawd!...
U gotz No Ideeyer how Enlightening it iz to hab U shed yer Light on us
Oh...."Man Who Speakz Fer NO One..."
wha wo we do witoutya?
Flint_...@hotmail.com
> > written by a man whose credentials are impeccable. If "Monica" knew
> > Kamook , she would not, I am certain, refer to her as "the girl." I
> > have known Kamook for nearly thirty years, and was a guest in the
> > Banks house. Kamook is a good woman, a strong woman, ans she's got
> > more spirituality in her little finger than Dennis Banks and Russell
> > Means rolled into one. Women who attempt to besmirch her are
> > repeating the lies of a handful of AIM thugs,scared in their old age
> > that the truth will out. I repeat, so that everyone reading this note
> > can reflect on it: Kamook Banks Ecoffey is a brave, solid, and
> > truthful Oglala Lakota woman, respected by Oglala Lakota people on her
> > reservation
>
> ..
betta go find yer Mad Moo Monkey Jefe, cuz...yaKnow...
it jezt ain't safe fer U witout her...
i meanz...neither U Nor Her belongz...But...leezt wayz...wit her...ya
gotz a chance...
last word i got waz...she LOST in her own bathroom N Cain't find her
way out...
she Do got a Petition Circulatin' in her behalf tho...
OOPS...it went down da drain...
Hee Hee
oldwifetale
> > This review does not do justice to the excellent, informative book
> > written by a man whose credentials are impeccable. If "Monica" knew
> > Kamook , she would not, I am certain, refer to her as "the girl." I
> > have known Kamook for nearly thirty years, and was a guest in the
> > Banks house. Kamook is a good woman, a strong woman, ans she's got
> > more spirituality in her little finger than Dennis Banks and Russell
> > Means rolled into one. Women who attempt to besmirch her are
> > repeating the lies of a handful of AIM thugs,scared in their old age
> > that the truth will out. I repeat, so that everyone reading this note
> > can reflect on it: Kamook Banks Ecoffey is a brave, solid, and
> > truthful Oglala Lakota woman, respected by Oglala Lakota people on her
> > reservation
>
> .. who wears a wire for the FBI sometimes and tries to get her friends
> to incriminate themselves. There's something inherently dishonest
> about pretending to be someone's friend while secretly be working to
> end their lives.
I once heard of a mafia wife who wore a wire around her husband after
finding out he'd been involved in something below her acceptance/
tolerance level. Is that "inherently dishonest"? Of all the people
who've ever worn a wire (i imagine thousands), they were probably all
'friends' of the ones being listened-in-on, or at least close enough
to be told things in confidence. Otherwise... what's the point of
wearing a wire in the first place? Do you have reason to believe that
Kamook had an unusual reason for wearing a wire, aside from possibly
wanting to do the 'right thing'? For an attorney who isn't personally
involved in the case, you don't seem very unbiased to me for some
reason. Did you already have a 'side' picked out before you studied
the case?
O'Brien
Dennis or (certainly) Russell.
> truth.- Hide quoted text -
Flint_...@hotmail.com
"IF Monica knew Kamook..."
wellllll...there ya go...
wha ya gotz to say fer yerself mad Moo...
Huh?
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
This is not a formal review, although I probably will do one. Everyone
I know who was involved in the old days couldn't stomach reading the
book for it's obvious lies and blatant coverup. You do know that not
everyone in the movement was AIM. The fishing rights activists predate
AIM. The occupation of FT Lewis and Alcatraz predates AIM. Trimbach
was crowing that he got the girl. He is a funny old man. You have
known Kamook for 30 years? Good for you. She isn't well liked here in
the PNW. But I have nothing against her. Except for what she did to
Arlo. Don't you like my "name?" It's a good one here in the PNW. I
think it's funny that all you goon and iwj types wear masks. I use my
real name and stand by what I say. Oh well, you're probably paulprice
in a dress.
Monica
Anna Mae doesn't belong to you. You sold her out to the fbi. The Anna
Mae story is the story of Indian women. You're the outsider. Go back
and sit on trimbach's lap. I doan't think sales were good. lol. Maybe
you should do your dance to comfort him.
Monica
Another two elves lie. I will continue exposing you and paulprice. The
fbi didn't recruit you for your ability to tell truth though did
they? They recruited you for your ability to LIE! Again, the story of
Anna Mae is the story of Indian women. You are the outsider. You are
the one using her as a weapon to get AIM.
The fbi really loves you. You're a good lap dog. I was banned for
about 15 or 20 minutes. Couldn't post. I was told I had to reapply.
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Donna. I posted an fbi memo on this site where the fbi was discussing
the possibility of recruiting Kamook. It was based on a report by one
of their informers that Kamook was unhappy with Dennis. There are a
lot of memos on Peltiers site. During those "old" days, the fbi was
considered the enemy and very dangerous. Kamook was Dennis' trophy
wife. She was his connection to Pine Ridge. She lost that stunning
beauty of her youth. Everyone does. She is now a middle aged beauty.
funny. I can't imagine how someone who was part of the leadership
inner circle, was hunted and followed by the fbi, could turn informer.
How could you do a 180 degree flip like that? I once posted on here
that Kamook said in a documentary that one day she learned that Anna
Mae was having an affair with her husband and the next day she was
interrogated about being an informer. I got an email from two elves
off list telling me that I could be killed for asking that question.
Kamook's motives need to be questioned and scrutinized. So does two
elves. He is the first one to come forward with what I call the fbi
story. The whole case is based on his lies. Kamook was the star
witness in Arlo's trial. Did you read that she said anythi9ng relevant
to Arlo's case? Why did the judge allow that?
If you want to understand the paranoi surrounding this case just read
what's postred here. I pointed out the inconsistencies in two elves
interview with the native american journalists association.
Immediately paulprice wrote me into hi8s timeline on Anna Mae. They
both lied about me. I sent an email to the owner of paulprice's paper
and cc'd it to naja and some of the old time Indian reporters
informing them of what he was doing. paulprice is very unethical. I
did that before when he was lying about me. I think he was ordered to
quit posting here. He wrote me into his timeline doing some really
weird things. Anyone involved in the old days would know it wasn't
true. Why would he do that? He was trying to frighten me away from
this case. The question is why? If you read Arlos transcripts you will
see that there was no evidence presented against Arlo. I didn't pick a
side until I read Arlo's transcripts. I assumed he was convicted on
evidence. But there was none. Arlo did maintain his innocence. He gave
Rensch a list of witnesses to call but Rensch did nothing that Arlo
wanted him to. I wrote an analysis of the transcripts. I wish I had
the money to attend John's trial. We have to read Antoinette's fluff
pieces and paulprice's slanted ones. Antoinette has a letter,
supposedly from Anna Mae to Dennis, on her site. She says she got it
from a credible source, that I assume is paulprice. As I said, he is
not credible or ethical. She is telling Dennis that she doesn't have
money to go to the farmington convention. She asks him for assistance.
A problem I have with Antoinette is that she says she is trying to
humanize Anna Mae, but she is most concerned with Anna Mae's sex life
and not her politics. It comes off more as a smear. It's too bad. She
has the money and means to do some writing from the women's point of
view. But she gets mired in sex.
Another good book to read is "Loud Hawk." You can get it from the
library. If you can familiarize yourself with the times it will also
help you to understand the parahnoia. Dennis' book "Ojibwa Warrior" is
good as is Hendricks book. Trimbach attacks Hendricks book although he
follows the fbi story. Hendricks cited a memo by fbi agent David Price
that he had Anna Mae under surveillance in February 1976. That means
she couldn't have been killed on December 12, 1975 by Arlo and John.
Hendricks also says that the fbi reports about the wanblee body seem
to be describing three different girls. Was any of them actually Anna
Mae?
This case is in the white man's court. There is nothing that can be
done about that except to hope for the best and keep working. The feds
don't have anymore evidence against John than they had against Arlo.
Arlo's family is very traditional and didn't know how to fight the
government. Arlo like John thought the truth of their innocence would
suffice. They both kenw that the feds were terying to hang htis on
them. They both could have run if they were guilty. Yet neither one
did. That says a lot to me about their character and innocence. But
that's just a gut feeling.
I am also going by my remembrance of the time. I remember the shock at
the fbi announcement that she had been killed. I remember them saying
that she had sex just before she died. My gut said no, she was raped.
I wonder if the evidence that was lost could prove that her killers
were connected to the fbi or were fbi? That would be the only reason
to lose it. If they had any evidence implicating AIm they would be
waving it on 60 minutes and CNN. They would have made sure it wasn't
lost.You may consider that paranoia, I remember the armed aggression
of the fbi at WK73. They were not benign.
oldwifetale
Monica,
I will get back to this post after my deadline next week; i feel it
deserves more time and thought than i have available right at the
moment. But just wanted to say that i did read it.
Donna
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
>
>Kamook was Dennis' trophy
> wife. She was his connection to Pine Ridge. She lost that stunning
> beauty of her youth. Everyone does. She is now a middle aged beauty.
>
so...If'n she waz "Beuty"...N U waz U-G-L-Y...U waz bedazzled at why
denny banks picked U when She wernt around, eh?
UGLY AllWays HATES Beauty...
Ya Know?
Flint_...@hotmail.com
AND...since ya couldn't "Take Out" da "Trophy" wife...U got her to hep
U Take Out da competition, Anna Mae Pictou...
com'n Mad Moo...Admit It...
Monica
That why you hate Dennis, because he's handsome? lol!
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Another important question is who told Kamook that Anna Mae and Dennis
were having an affair? Was it the fbi? They like Antoinette and two
elves are very concerned about other people's sex lives. Did whoever
it was that told Kamook about the alleged affair intend to spark her
jealousy? The fbi memo that was discussing the possibility of
recruiting Kamook said the informant was someone close to her. Did
they have someone manipulating Kamook all along?
Flint_...@hotmail.com
why wo I hate denny...
he such an Insignificant, Brown Nosin', Bleedin' Heartz Parasite...he
an EmBARE-ASSment to real Nativez...
DUH!
OM SHIVA!108
Flint_...@hotmail.com
Our Liberation will come from within ourselvez...
NOT from da HANDOUTS o da Bleedin' Heartz...
Dat wayz...when we achieve it...It Will Belong to US...NOT da
Wasicu...
Cha-Ching!
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Liberation? I thought you wre happy being the fbi lap dog. Does
trimbach know you want liberation?
Bleeding Hearts? Is that like Strong Hearts?
Flint_...@hotmail.com
Obviously...U ain't da only 1 wha Thot he waz "Handsome"...
wha waz dat count now...20 sum odd wives...How many children?
yupper...we All remember, or Known guyz like him...cain't git nuff and
dey'll poke ANYTING jezt to git a nut...
can U imagine da Party he havin' now?
too bad dem folks wit dat 16 year old girl waz TOO scared to file RAPE
charges aginst hiz ASS...
Yer HERO, eh?
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
>
> Bleeding Hearts? Is that like Strong Hearts?
only in yer FANTASY whirl Mad Moo....Only in yer FANTASY Whirl...
Monica
You're the one that is always in drug induced fantasies. Are you the
one that told Kamook that Anna Mae was having an affair with Dennis?
Did you do it on trimbachs orders?
O'Brien
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sounds like something the "pie patrol" would do, whatever that means.
Sitting in Thelma's living room so many times, I couldn't believe the
female sniping.
Nor Dennis's pathological snagging. There were too many rape stories
of 13 year old girls for none of them to be true . . .
Monica
> On Feb 15, 8:04 am, Monica <yano...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
learned one day that Anna Mae and Dennis were having an affair and the
next day Anna Mae was interrogated. That's significant. So is the
question of who told Kamook and why? That person did it for a reason.
There is no way I could defend Dennis' behavior towards women and
girls. Nor do I want to. It was typical of male aim behavior at the
time. Women were badly mistreated. That's why I walked away. I tried
to bring this up in discussion before Arlo's trial. No man would talk
about it. Now you and two elves want to attack Dennis for it. It was
where aim went wrong. There was no natural balance. Men went nuts with
the hollywood stereotype of an Indian warrior. From talking with
churchill and denver aim it looks like it still exists. Nothing will
be right until the men straighten up.
The issue is Anna Mae. AIM men were the biggest jackasses in the
world. That doesn't mean they killed Anna Mae. If I see absolute proof
then I'll go after them. The evidence that was lost while in fbi hands
speaks volumes. This was an fbi ftx. Anna Mae was the smartest of the
leadership. There's a reason Pedro Bissonette and Anna Mae were killed
and an idiot like Russell Means is still walking around making bad
movies. I hate to hear him called an actor. He's not an actor. He's
simply photographed while talking and walking. The feds took out Pedro
and Anna Mae because they would have made positive changes.
I hate it when two elves and Leonards supporters try to make this
about him. It's about Anna Mae and Indian Women. It's our chance to
bring balance back into our communities. Amdo is right. We can't be
distracted by two elves and the fbi. Trimbach talks about the horror
of the sexual abuse of children on pine ridge. It is an issue on all
reservations in all our communities. He's doing this to cast very dark
shadows on Indian men. He's trivializing a very serious issue. He's
trying to distract us from Anna Mae and direct our anger towards the
men. I heard Cecelia Fire Thunder speak about violence and rape on
pine ridge. She and her crew are taking care of it. The women are
dealing with it. If the fbi is finally investigating cases then good
for them. It's their job. It's about time they are doing it.
We can't be sure about the bodies in all the autopsies. There is a
memo on Leonards site about the fbi monitoring girls that looked like
Anna Mae. They had something planned. Maybe it was this confusion.
In the documentary "In the Spirit of Anna Mae" Minnie Two Shoes states
that Anna Mae's body was found in February and by May she knew that
someone in AIM had killed her. She states that someone who took part
in the interrogation told her. Then why wasn't she hauled before a
grand jury or why wasn't she called to testify in Arlo's trial? Is she
planting rumours liek paulprice and two elves? If she's a real
journalist why is she making unsubstantiated claims like that? NAJA is
a pile of toad shit. Truth isn't a part of their vocabulary. It's a
long ways from AIPA.
We need to keep our focus on Anna Mae. We can deal with Leonard and
Dennis and all the other issues later. There needs to be a tribunal
made up of Indian women, then parade all the hollywood warriors before
them. That would be fun.
oldwifetale
> the possibility of recruiting Kamook. It was based on a report by one
> of their informers that Kamook was unhappy with Dennis. There are a
> lot of memos on Peltiers site. During those "old" days, the fbi was
> considered the enemy and very dangerous. Kamook was Dennis' trophy
> wife. She was his connection to Pine Ridge. She lost that stunning
> beauty of her youth. Everyone does. She is now a middle aged beauty.
> funny. I can't imagine how someone who was part of the leadership
> inner circle, was hunted and followed by the fbi, could turn informer.
I was just commenting about Paul Wolf's bias. Part of the reason is
because even i have bias, and my 'exposure' has been less than most
here. Right off the top, i have to say that to be viewed as anyone's
'trophy wife' would be so demeaning, i immediately have empathy for
Kamook if that was the case. That is a societal burden that beautiful
women must carry along with their 'gift', and it is unfair and
dehumanizing to *all* women, beautiful and otherwise.
Kamook was a young mother back then, still in her 'innocence', and it
would appear that she had many good reasons to be unhappy in her
relationship with Dennis. The next thing i have to say is that my only
real and true 'inside' experience with *any* of native people has been
at Rosebud. To me, almost *all* of the women at Rosebud are beautiful.
What i experienced during one particular 8-day span of time there is
something i will probably be trying to emotionally process for the
rest of my life. So... i can't be totally unbiased in that regard, or
try to visualize Kamook in any other setting but that of her own
relations. But one thing that does always come to the front of my mind
is that AIM is pan-indian... in a sense... whereas the people i know
at Rosebud are singularly unique, their own people, not like any other
people anywhere...
You ask how Kamook might have turned 180 degrees to go against AIM...
and the answer that usually springs to my mind is that she might have
seen a delineation between what was AIM... and what was Lakota. One
thing that might make a Lakota woman turn on AIM leadership is when
she feels that AIM leadership is contrary to the beliefs and well-
being of her own people. Then... in her heart, such a 'betrayal' might
seem justified. If AIM was doing something completely opposed to the
traditional beliefs and well-being of your *own* tribe... say, if they
were fighting 'against' your treaty rights, or doing something that
somehow threatened the well-being of your relations... you might then
need to make a choice.
I'm just saying... it is an alternative scenario... if we are to
'guess' about her motivations while keeping a still-open mind about
guilt and innocence in the murder of Anna Mae.
In fact, if i had no awareness of the internal politics of AIM, i
might look at Dennis himself a little more intensely because... the
types of 'betrayals' taking place were not only political. There were
matters of the heart involved. What does a man like Dennis do when he
'falls in love' and trusts his secrets with a woman who supposedly
turns out to be an informer for the fbi? What does a man like Dennis
do if he is confronted by his 'trophy' wife about it? And if... i am
saying IF... Kamook was willing to turn on her husband because of his
actions... what would a woman like Anna Mae be ready to do if she
*also* had discovered some terrible 'corruption' coming directly from
the leadership of AIM? According to everything that has been said
about Anna Mae, she had a very strong vision about what AIM was
supposed to accomplish for all native people. What would a woman like
that do if she found out that the reality and the vision were at two
ends of the spectrum? What would *you* do? It's unlikely that she'd
want to turn to the fbi - which would leave her in an unimaginably
vulnerable position with almost nowhere to turn... i can't even
imagine how horrifying.
IF... that was the scenario.
These are the 'relationship' questions i never see asked amidst all
the hooplah about the guilt or innocence of Arlo and John Boy. And...
imo, upon reading the transcripts, i was most impacted by all the
questions that could have been asked and never were.
Now there are these requests for dna. I would like to see that happen.
But how much of a dna sample will be available after all these years,
and when dna was not such a factor in the 70's? However, there are
still a couple last pieces of hard evidence (aside from dna) not yet
provided; the gun and the jewelry.
Where are they? The jewelry could have been melted down. But the gun
is probably intact, buried or not.
I will have to come back for the rest of your post. Like i said
before, i feel it does deserve thought and time, and not simply a
'knee-jerk' response or a regurgitation of what 'other' people have
said. I don't want to talk about this (personally) without keeping my
mind free from issues of 'guilt and innocence', but rather focused on
what actually happened to Anna Mae and why. Otherwise, it is just
'picking a side' and getting nowhere in really understanding any of
it. I do understand your persective, though, and i will keep reading
and trying to learn about all of this as time goes on.
Donna
> good as is Hendricks book.Trimbachattacks Hendricks book although he
> follows the fbi story. Hendricks cited a memo by fbi agent David Price
> that he had Anna Mae under surveillance in February 1976. That means
> she couldn't have been killed on December 12, 1975 by Arlo and John.
> Hendricks also says that the fbi reports about the wanblee body seem
> to be describing three different girls. Was any of them actually Anna
> Mae?
>
> This case is in the white man's court. There is nothing that can be
> done about that except to hope for the best and keep working. The feds
> don't have anymore evidence against John than they had against Arlo.
> Arlo's family is very traditional and didn't know how to fight the
> government. Arlo like John thought the truth of their innocence would
> suffice. They both kenw that the feds were terying to hang htis on
> them. They both could have run if they were guilty. Yet neither one
> did. That says a lot to me about their character and innocence. But
> that's just a gut feeling.
>
> I am also going by my remembrance of the time. I remember the shock at
> the fbi announcement that she had been killed. I remember them saying
> that she had sex just before she died. My gut said no, she was raped.
> I wonder if the evidence that was lost could prove that her killers
> were connected to the fbi or were fbi? That would be the only reason
> to lose it. If they had any evidence implicating AIm they would be
> waving it on 60 minutes and CNN. They would have made sure it wasn't
> lost.You may consider that paranoia, I remember the armed aggression
> of the fbi at WK73. They were not benign.- Hide quoted text -
Monica
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On other lists some Lakota have said that Kamook was always a whore
that sold herself to the highest bidder. Others have said no more
princes for that girl. She's going to have to settle for frogs the
rest of her life. Now that she's sold out to the fbi she has political
leprosy. I don't know. It couldn't have been easy being Dennis' wife.
Since everyone is human I'm sure relationships played a big
part.Dennis' infidelity is legendary and interfered with the work he
could and should have done. That is also what leaves him open to the
lies and accusations today. Dennis is real smart and a natural leader.
His self indulgence and excesses brought him down. Basic greek
tragedy.
I try to see things in terms of myth too. There is much more to what
is happening to day than what we can see. Those who are actually in
charge are driving us down a path they want us to go like we're little
ants. They put something to block our way when they want us to turn.
Problem is they use their mythology not ours. Why would they want to
kill a beautiful young woman in her prime? To traumatize us? That
happened. To cause a rift between men and women? That happened. To
cause a rift between Lakota and other Tribes? That happened.What myth
are they retelling with the Anna Mae story?
Why is the fbi suddenly concerned about Anna Mae. They didn't care for
decades? Is it simply old men that are retiring and want to clean up
their image for history? Is this the ending of a tragic european myth
with Indian players?
oldwifetale
I can't see the 'fingerprint' of a european myth in her story very
well; there are very few female figures whose tragedies coincide with
how the events have unfolded since the murder of Anna Mae. At the same
time i have to consider... that the fbi people involved at that time
are not the same world 'leaders' who communicate or stage events
according to mythological stories. These fbi men are not even in the
same 'league'. Neither are most lower-echelon cia people. I think most
of their 'working class' (people in the field) are as ignorant about
'mythological communications' as the general population. When a
recognizable myth *does* develop, it is almost a sure indication that
a 'hidden hand' is involved in things. I will think about it... but
right now nothing is coming into my mind. That doesn't necessarily
mean anything - i'm a little tired today mentally.
However, i can easily see how Anna Mae could *become* the central
figure of a great legend that could pass through many generations once
the entire truth is known. In a very real sense, her most profound
legacy depends on a final *revelation* that has not yet come. The one
that replaces 'believing' with 'knowing'.
Monica
me. Will there be an assassination? Right now it looks like Obama will
win. He is very popular with Natives right now. I like Hillary but
Obama is more resolute in his support of our Treaties etc.
When I was at my friends I saw Ted Kennedy on the news endorsing Obama
and evoking his brother John. Caroline was on stage too. I read an
article once about the Kennedy assassination being a European ritual
called "The killing of the King." Since the murder was televised live,
it traumatized people. Traumatizing someone is the first step to
programming.
I understand the use of Camelot and Kennedy. I don't understand how
Obama is Osiris and Hillary is Isis.
oldwifetale
> When you said that Obama was being compared to Osiris, that worried
> me. Will there be an assassination? Right now it looks like Obama will
> win. He is very popular with Natives right now. I like Hillary but
> Obama is more resolute in his support of our Treaties etc.
I am not for either one of them, or for any other candidate that's
been offered up. And in my opinion, voting has become a token gesture
and means nothing to the outcome. Biased polls are taken more
seriously. But i have been waiting since 1992 to see how (and when)
Hillary would be placed at the helm because i felt it had already been
decided. Even then, she was being groomed for the 'Isis' position, and
it was only a matter of seeing who was going to play the role of
Osiris to her Isis. At first, it seemed Bill Clinton would be the one.
But his 'promiscuous' nature ruled him out as her 'leading man'.
>
> When I was at my friends I saw Ted Kennedy on the news endorsing Obama
> and evoking his brother John. Caroline was on stage too. I read an
> article once about the Kennedy assassination being a European ritual
> called "The killing of the King." Since the murder was televised live,
> it traumatized people. Traumatizing someone is the first step to
> programming.
>
> I understand the use of Camelot and Kennedy. I don't understand how
> Obama is Osiris and Hillary is Isis.
There are 'indications' that the mythological story-line for this
election campaign is following an Osiris/Isis theme. To begin, in the
'headlines' (orchestrated and reflecting 'staged' events), there have
been several news items regarding Obama's safety and his security; The
1st news item was about his 'lack' of security. At a rally, the guards
were letting people in without even cursory examinations for weapons.
The 2nd news item was about how many 'african americans' were fearing
for his safety, and likening him to jfk and mlk, all rolled into one.
The 3rd news item was about how his security team is comparable to the
security team of the president himself. And there were other
extraneous news items in a similar vein.
(I won't even go into how a 'John Lennon' theme is playing in the
background of all this - lots of 'mass programming').
The indications are there, but certain things would have to occur
before i could know for *sure* this was following the Osiris/Isis
theme.
A prediction of someone's demise is... not something i would feel
comfortable saying out loud. But with the mass 'adulation' that is
gathering around him... and a strange shift in the success of
Hillary's campaign (when we all do know the voting diebold machines
can be rigged any which way)... it does seem the man is being set up
for a *bad thing* to happen. However, in order for the story-line to
follow the Osiris/Isis mythology, several things would have to occur
and be timed in a certain way. Hillary/Isis would have to be in a
position of 'side-kick' to Obama/Osiris. This position would involve
overseeing things when Obama/Osiris couldn't. In other words, the only
way it can play out as the Osiris/Isis myth is if Hillary is running
as Obama's vice president. (And that will show for certain that it was
all orchestrated). The whole 'issue' surrounding Isis after the death
of Osiris is the right of succession to 'rule' in his place. Isis
practically pulled Horus out of her ass to save her position on that.
If Obama was already sworn in as president, then such an 'issue' would
not arise. Hillary would, of course, have the 'right of succession' to
take over his duties. So the only way this issue can play out in
*this* political scenario would be if "the bad thing" happened after
the election... but before being 'sworn in' (up to which point, the
power is still held by Bush). Hillary would have to contend with Bush
for her position, and she'd manage to pull something out of her ass.
But all of this is ONLY IF something happens to place Hillary in the
position of running as vice president.
The 'bad thing' could... possibly... create riots, and instigate a
civil war that would begin as a race war.
If none of that happens, then it is no longer the Isis/Osiris theme
they are playing. It is a complete change of plans, and a different
story with a different outcome. Sometimes they make it very tricky to
tell which storyline they're using, but usually it all comes together.
Others have fit the 'pieces' of various stories/mythologies together
in retrospect (as in the 'killing of the king' and jfk). So really it
is just a matter of 'wait and see' how things unfold at this point. I
am watching to see how her 'attitude' changes toward Obama (and his
toward her) near the end of her campaign. Will they appear to 'come
together' in terms of what they want to do with healthcare, NAFTA,
Iraq, and so on? Will they suddenly appear to be more 'on the same
page' than either of them previously realized? Will they start talking
about how the democrats need to 'unite'? Those things would need to
happen before they could (believably) run together for President and
Vice President. But even if they don't 'unite'... and it turns out to
be a different mythology after all... i do feel he is being set up for
the 'bad thing'.
Monica
When I was in Olympia CNN kept talking about a "Dream Ticket." That
would be a Clinton/Obama run. At that time she was still ahead. They
spoke together after a debate. They were standing real close and
whispering in each other's ears. They both ahve a lot of magtnetism so
the conjectures were funny afterwards. One station even hired a lip
reader to try to figure out what they were talking about.
If this follows Osiris/Isis then who is going to be Horus? In the
original my7th Osiris is killed and Isis learns magic to bring him
back long enough for her to become pregnant. She then rules on the
right of her son. I guess maybe Horus could be an "event", a national
emergency or something.
I see this kind of manipulation in the Anna Mae story. The reason she
was killed was so that the US could get the uranium that is on several
reservations. She was just starting to work to stop it. They wouldn't
have been able to manipulate her like they did the men. She was the
lynchpin that would have saved the movement and changed history. She
wasn't made of wax. They couldn't manipulate her so they killed her.
oldwifetale
Hmm... if that was the case, then there could be higher involvement
and manipulation, and if there was a mythology involved, it could say
much. The thing is... the players in this stupid 'game' don't only
draw upon european and/or egyptian mythologies. Remember the code
words that drew in the Maryland sniper... were part of a cherokee
story. The mythology can come from anywhere, so long as it fits the
'plan'. I haven't come up with one, but that doesn't mean it isn't
possible. The Innuit legend of Sedna is the only story i've heard that
contains a part about the 'hands'. But the rest of the story is hard
to fit with what happened to Anna Mae, unless something is just
refusing to 'click'. So i just am not sure on that one.
On Horus, i haven't figured out if it's to be a person or an event or
a 'legal technicality'. As the story goes, the main actions of Horus
were focused on avenging the death of Osiris, and he was somewhat a
'god of war' in that respect. His purpose in being born was to serve
as a technicality that prevented the 'killer' from being the legal
ruler, and also maintained the position of Isis as ruler (albeit
through Horus). This part *could* play out in several different ways.
For 'mass programming' (rather than communications with 'each other')
there are televised shows that subconsciously plant seeds in the
collective mind. Big Brother has been doing it for years. The theme of
their show this season is "Til Death Do Us Part" and everyone is
paired up as 'couples'.
American Idol is another one, funny as that might seem. This year they
have a very 'young guy' with an upbeat attitude who is like a youthful
version/image of Obama. He will be staying most of the season because
of his good voice and charisma. Last night he sang John Lennon's
'Imagine'.
There are other mainstream shows also that have intended 'seeds' in
them. But i shouldn't talk about such things - people will think i'm
skitzofrenik. :)
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
The amputation of Anna Mae's hands was very traumatizing for many. I
just recently found out that Che's hands had been amputated. The myth
may be severed body parts, not just hands. The thought of Anna Mae
appearing on the other side without her hands was so awful.
I don't have tv and I don't get the paper. So I'm not aware of the new
shows. I took a class in the 70's about media manipulation. I saw how
they used myth and fear etc to plant seeds. I read 6 papers a day for
a year then wrote about how "they" announce what they are going to do
before they do it. I had ehard Dick Gregory say that.
The possibilities of who or what Horus could be is alarming to say the
very least.
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
>
> The amputation of Anna Mae's hands was very traumatizing for many. I
> just recently found out that Che's hands had been amputated.
wha U don't know iz Tragic Mad Moo...
why hell...wha good R ya?
True story of Che Guevara
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5762714709014580290
betta Adjust ya FANTASY...
DUH!
Flint_...@hotmail.com
> On Feb 27, 2:49 pm, Monica <yano...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The amputation of Anna Mae's hands was very traumatizing for many. I
> > just recently found out that Che's hands had been amputated.
>
> wha U don't know iz Tragic Mad Moo...
>
> why hell...wha good R ya?
>
>
> betta Adjust ya FANTASY...
>
> DUH!
tink bout it Mad Moo...
U gotta "degree"...BUTT...ya really don know shit bout nuttin'...
typical Conspriacy Theorista...
when da world don fit yer IMAGINATION...Ya simply Make Up yer own
Outlandish explanation wha don fit shit in REALITY...
i can already count da cadaverz in yer wake...
Go Figure...
Monica
> On Feb 27, 2:49 pm, Monica <yano...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The amputation of Anna Mae's hands was very traumatizing for many. I
> > just recently found out that Che's hands had been amputated.
>
> wha U don't know iz Tragic Mad Moo...
>
> why hell...wha good R ya?
>
>
> betta Adjust ya FANTASY...
>
> DUH!
You're no expert. You didn't know who Che was until I brought him up.
DUH!
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
>
> You're no expert. You didn't know who Che was until I brought him up.
> DUH!
Excellent illustration o my assertion dat U iz Conspiracy Theorista...
recreatin yer story to meet yer wants...
frickin' Ms. Simpleton...
Monica
Don't you remember? You said you felt real stupid because you had
never heard of Che. I guess drugs did that huh? You missed a couple
decades?
oldwifetale
>
> The amputation of Anna Mae's hands was very traumatizing for many. I
> just recently found out that Che's hands had been amputated. The myth
> may be severed body parts, not just hands. The thought of Anna Mae
> appearing on the other side without her hands was so awful.
I had to go find out who Che was before i could even answer. The
problem about seeing a mythology behind Anna Mae's murder is that i
have a feeling she is one of those special people who are born so that
'new' legends can be made, once the entire truth is revealed. Her
hands being severed seem powerfully symbolic, but i would hate to
attribute that symbolism to a government agenda when it 'might' be
meant as a meaningful part of her legacy. A pre-existing mythology
would have to fit very well, in many aspects, before i could ever feel
somewhat sure about outside orchestration of her life story - even if
it turned out the fbi was responsible for her death. If that makes
sense. Everything depends on what the truth is.
>
> I don't have tv and I don't get the paper. So I'm not aware of the new
> shows. I took a class in the 70's about media manipulation. I saw how
> they used myth and fear etc to plant seeds. I read 6 papers a day for
> a year then wrote about how "they" announce what they are going to do
> before they do it. I had ehard Dick Gregory say that.
It does happen. That is one thing i know for sure.
>
> The possibilities of who or what Horus could be is alarming to say the
> very least.
If they do not run on the same ticket, i am not sure how any of the
theme can play out. But IF... they do, then i think Horus would be a
legal technicality (after the 'main event') that will 'divide' the
nation between either two leaders or two ideologies. So another
question would be: Who is Set?
Hard to say what's going to happen because they've also planted other
'seeds' in various media. Such as connecting McCain with the
'manchurian candidate'. Wish it was easier to 'connect the dots', or
string the beads, but it isn't always.
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Set could be the dreaded race war. I found one of those sites that
uses the bible code referring to Hillary as Isis. The predict she will
be the next president. The only reference I found to Obama as Osiris
was a racist site.
The feds are manipulating the Anna Mae story whether it can be fit
into an existing myth or not. The fbi played out cointelpro against
the Panthers. They kicked it up a level against us. The fbi staged a
full scale invasion of Pine Ridge. They no longer wore Brooks Brothers
suits. They wore paramilitary uniforms and carried M-16s. They were
there to protect and support the corrupt dictaro, chairman Dick
Wilson, and his death squad, the goons.
Actually there is a parallel story in Alex Rackley of the Black
Panthers. Rumors were spread about Rackley being an fbi plant. The
real fbi undercover agent manipulated people into an interrogation of
Rackley. He may have been the one to actually shoot Rackley but two
very young Panthers were set up by that agent as the shooters. I'm
looking for the book right now.
If Set is a race war they will have to develp a leader who can inspire
Black unity. There is no one in existence right now. I guess the
leader could come after war is started. It's easy to understand the
use of myth after events have already transpired.
oldwifetale
> On Feb 28, 12:12 pm, oldwifetale <oldwifet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > If they do not run on the same ticket, i am not sure how any of the
> > theme can play out. But IF... they do, then i think Horus would be a
> > legal technicality (after the 'main event') that will 'divide' the
> > nation between either two leaders or two ideologies. So another
> > question would be: Who is Set?
>
> > Hard to say what's going to happen because they've also planted other
> > 'seeds' in various media. Such as connecting McCain with the
> > 'manchurian candidate'. Wish it was easier to 'connect the dots', or
> > string the beads, but it isn't always.-
>
> Set could be the dreaded race war. I found one of those sites that
> uses the bible code referring to Hillary as Isis. The predict she will
> be the next president. The only reference I found to Obama as Osiris
> was a racist site.
I doubt if the 'connection' is being made by very many people yet, but
probably will before the year is out. That often happens. I was one of
the first to make the connection between 'shekinah' and 'shock 'n'
awe'. In later months, other people did also, and 'then' it started to
show up on the internet. Osiris is an african prototype, and as a
'symbol' is used in the media by taking other forms, such as a 'sun'
or a 'messiah' figure. Probably if you type in 'messiah' and 'obama',
many sites will pop up, even now.
>
> The feds are manipulating the Anna Mae story whether it can be fit
> into an existing myth or not. The fbi played out cointelpro against
> the Panthers. They kicked it up a level against us. The fbi staged a
> full scale invasion of Pine Ridge. They no longer wore Brooks Brothers
> suits. They wore paramilitary uniforms and carried M-16s. They were
> there to protect and support the corrupt dictaro, chairman Dick
> Wilson, and his death squad, the goons.
>
> Actually there is a parallel story in Alex Rackley of the Black
> Panthers. Rumors were spread about Rackley being an fbi plant. The
> real fbi undercover agent manipulated people into an interrogation of
> Rackley. He may have been the one to actually shoot Rackley but two
> very young Panthers were set up by that agent as the shooters. I'm
> looking for the book right now.
I am sure that in powerful movements like AIM, Black Panthers, La
Raza, etc. there would be fbi infiltrators. It only stands to reason.
But the thing i have always questioned is... why would it ever be good
'strategy' on their part to destroy a movement when they could have
people on the inside *steering* the movement? Any time there is an
'organization' of people formed... certain strategists would see that
as an *opportunity*. I would have to assume that if there is an actual
'hidden hand' behind it, then there is some longer-term strategic
thinking involved. Likewise, if a 'leader' in a movement is going to
be set up to be killed, there must be a reason. Either there is
someone in line as a better 'replacement', or there is some threat or
obstacle. I don't see how it could happen on a 'whim'.
So on the uranium issue, i have to wonder... was Anna Mae really in a
position to be the 'only' person with this knowledge or who could get
the word out and do something? Maybe she was, but it seems unlikely or
at least unprovable up to now. She would have to be in a very singular
position holding completely exclusive knowledge. And in thinking about
the Rackley story, it does not make sense to me that fbi would kill
her and frame two people all these years later. Why not frame two
people for it immediately? If the object was to take AIM down, that
could have done it. And spinning a media circus around it would not
have been hard to do. Geez... if they wanted to, they could have set
it up to make several of the male leaders look guilty "beyond all
reasonable doubt". With Anna Mae they could have taken it down right
then, on the spot - but they *did not want to*. That would have been
stupid. Basically, i guess what confuses me about the fbi
involvement... is not that i doubt for one minute they are 'capable'
and have done all these things before, but that i can't see exactly
what the 'motivation' would be in this case. To me it *seems*, if
anything, they would have needed Anna Mae alive.
>
> If Set is a race war they will have to develp a leader who can inspire
> Black unity. There is no one in existence right now. I guess the
> leader could come after war is started. It's easy to understand the
> use of myth after events have already transpired.
I think that *if* the Osiris/Isis theme plays out (which can only
'really' happen if he and Hillary end up running on the same ticket),
then Obama is a very powerful figure to inspire black unity... if the
mythology unfolded according to 'script'.
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
No Anna Mae wasn't the only one working on uranium. I have a friend
that was working in DC when all this was going down. I told him that
it was beginning to look to me that Anna Mae was killed over uranium.
I asked him what he thought. He said he never thought it was anything
but that. He told me about a Tribal journalist that was doing stories
about strip mining on his rez. He also died mysteriously. It looks
like the fbi didn't do anything about Anna Mae at the time because
they were protecting their long term plants. This will only make sense
when things are over. The fbi is also going after panthers now too. So
they are cleaning up their image. They hauled in some Panthers that
were charged with murder I think. They were tortured, the police
soaked wool blankets in boiling water and threw it on them, cattle
prods etc. The panthers confessed although they could prove they were
else where. The case was thrown out of court because the confessions
were obtained under torture. The fbi has hauled these men back into
court and charged them again because they confessed. It's nuts. I
don't know why the fbi is doing this unless it is simply because they
can because we are living in the times of W.
We went to Stillaquamish today to get plants. We got lots of
gooseberries and buffaloberry.We also got wild crab apple and the
native strawberry. I hope they all take. We will have done a lot to
bring back what was lost. Stillaquamish said they are also starting a
buffalo farm. They are not native here, but I guess to help save them.
We will be able to get the huckleberries after the snow melts.
Tomorrow we are going to the county conservation sale. They sell bare
root plants. We missed the order so we'll see if they have anything we
want.