Another Native "Spiritual" RItual?
Rich
Article and Contact Info to Protest the Whale Harpooning in Mustique
A horrible story, along with action info, follows. FYI, Princess
Margaret is
not the only one who has a villa on Mustique. Richard Branston owns a
lot of
this island, and people like Mick Jagger have places there too.
ARTICLE:
"Whale Slaughter in Playground of the Wealthy"
By Jonh Ingham
Sunday Express Newspaper. March 28, 1999.
"A mother whale lies on a beach as islanders strip her of her meat and
blubber in a frenzy of excitement. Nearby her baby is suffering the
same fate
- being cut to ribbons in a sea of blood. The screams and yells of
locals
fill the air. Any outsiders who try to have a closer look are pelted
with
stones.
Welcome to [the island of] Mustique, the Caribbean playground of
Princess
Margaret and the world's monied elite. Earlier this month, humpback
whales
were killed in front of horrified tourists, the second time in two
years that
islanders have killed whales in defiance of international agreements.
This
year the carnage was witnessed by holidaymaker Maria Child-Villiers
from a
friend's yacht. Maria said: "We were sitting on the yacht when we
heard
terrible screams. We looked up and a mile from the yacht we could see
a
launch and other boats in hot pursuit of the whale. The crews were
yelling
and throwing harpoons". "After half an hour we saw the whale send up a
bloody
spurt from her blowhole into the air and we knew she was dead. Then,
to our
horror, we saw the launch come past with a baby whale tied to its
side. They
had killed the baby whale to lure the mother in. Throughout the whole
episode
we felt totally helpless."
Although the baby was about 15ft long, it was no more than three weeks
old.
It was so young that its tail had not yet fully unfurled. The 32-ton
mother
and baby were then towed off to a whaling station on the island of
Petit
Nevis. By the next day the mother had been stripped of her flesh in
what
Maria describes as "an orgy of violence", with locals wading through
waters
turned red from the blood. "This was done for sheer blood lust", she
said.
Two holidaymakers who tried to have a look were pelted with stones.
The International Whaling Commission lets hunters on nearby Bequia
island
kill two whales each year as part of "aboriginal subsistence hunting".
But
many believe that the whales are hunted for commercial reasons and
that the
ban on hunting calves is obviously flouted. But there are fears that
Caribbean nations may help Japan and Norway try to force the IWC to
weaken
its commercial whaling ban at its conference in May. St. Vincent and
the
Grenadines - which includes Mustique - is among Caribbean nations
which have
received aid from Japan in recent years."
ACTION
Please send protest to St. Vincent and the Grenadines, to:
St Vincent and the Grenadines
Mr. S. Nanton
Parliamentary Secretary
Ministry Foreign Affairs & Tourism,
Administrative Centre
KINGSTOWN
St VINCENT & GRENADINES
1 809 457 1291
1 809 457 1291
***********
**************************************************************************
Protect our future - Sign the online petition for mandatory
labeling of genetically engineered foods -
http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html
***************************************************************************
ddmc
person into any large Indian event and get on the mike and
announce that you believe that every Indian *there* should
turn into a vegetarian just like you! Oh yeah, you'd get
booed out the door and clear down the road all right. But
here on the ng, even though you are repeatedly booed, you
insist on coming back to the mike again and again and again
and spouting your crap to us!
How rude you are! How assuming! How judgemental! How
insulting! How prejudiced! Who the hell do you think you
are? We don't *want* to be like you, Rich, so just leave us
alone! We eat meat, Rich, and we will *always* eat meat, so
just go elsewhere and peddle your ridiculous sob stories!
There are no takers here, and we are getting tired of
telling you so. All you are accomplishing here is amassing
a collection of bad feelings toward you.
GET OFF THE MIKE!
Wicakpi
Rich wrote in message <37141a8a...@news.cwo.com>...
>Blood and Slaughter in the Playground of the Wealthy:
>Article and Contact Info to Protest the Whale Harpooning in
Mustique
--snipped all the crap--
reds...@wolfenet.com
area are like other people in another area. I must say for you to understand
an inkling of native cultural, it would take you years. Just assuming our
customs around the world alike is wrong, so don't associate us with another
culture from another country, we are different in lots of ways! To even
attempt to associate us with the people in Mustique is pretty ignorant, and
frankly, it is the same issue we talked about your not understanding the
Makah. Frankly, if the people were horrified they could have turned and looked
somewhere else, because in reality these are the same people who would not help
another stranger when they are being mugged, or attacked because they don't
want to get involved. Until they can frankly help another human being they
shouldn't put the ideals on the rest.
justanoldman
<cut>
> So the truth about whaling is a little hard to face eh? Good!
> Otherwise why be offended at a simple description of traditional
> whaling practices...with some of the romance of the hunt stripped
> away. This is not even the Makah or North American natives spoken of
> here....just a quaint little island with traditional whaling. Kind of
> like a travelogue.
>
> Rich
>
> **************************************************************************
> Protect our future - Sign the online petition for mandatory
> labeling of genetically engineered foods -
> http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html
> ***************************************************************************
Nobody has a "hard" or "soft" time facing the truth about whaling. I've
killed, skinned, gutted, trapped & eaten more animals than you've got on
your head, Rich. There is "truth" in life. Big deal. What's your point?
You don't like blood & gore? Too bad. Don't look. "Truth" is not what's
hard to face.. Your noise & use of bandwidth is "hard to face". There are
anti-trapping/whaling/meat ng's galore out there where you'll get
applause. Here you merit less attention than a gnat, & what you do get is
for the same reason folks pay attention to gnats; to swat them. Now shoo..
into the twit-filter you carrot-killer (at least the animals have legs).
Teel Adams
Agreed. They want to believe meat comes in little cellophane wrappers, that
they are removed from this place of green and rain that they are destroying.
They don't harm an animal, but they destroy acre upon acre with urban sprawl.
The same toads that take their unwanted pets into the country so they can frolic
and play and live a hard tortuous life. At least they don't suffer as long as
they used to, the coyote's are getting rover and fluffy quick..
Its a shame, they don't let us remove the fools from the gene pool anymore.
John W. Hart
killing room with carcasses on the floor. Also hunt and butcher small and
large game animals, trap for furs. Once had a bunny hugger approach me at a
fur sale and scream at me about "killing poor defenseless animals for their
fur". Said to her, "Yep , thet's right lady, and if your hide was worth
anything, I'd take it too." For some reason, she left. Just haven't been
able to figure out why. :))
John
Rick Kerchee <coma...@texas.net> wrote in message
news:dPdR2.22$aI5...@news2.giganews.com...
> In article <37154778...@news.cwo.com>, sea_...@orland.net (Rich)
wrote:
> >On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:47:52 GMT, coma...@texas.net (Rick Kerchee)
> >wrote:
> >
>
> >Care to stand in the slaugherhouse a while before dinner? Nothing like
> >the sound of terrified animals being slaughtered to build up a big
> >hunger.
> Doesn't bother me none haits....we had cattle when I was kid...seen it
done.
>
> Rick
>
> ******************************************
> Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have
Rich
>Richterd, only on a ng would you be so brave! Try going in
>person into any large Indian event and get on the mike and
>announce that you believe that every Indian *there* should
>turn into a vegetarian just like you! Oh yeah, you'd get
>booed out the door and clear down the road all right. But
>here on the ng, even though you are repeatedly booed, you
>insist on coming back to the mike again and again and again
>and spouting your crap to us!
When whaling ends in the US I will quit coming to this mike and go
elsewhere.
>
>How rude you are! How assuming! How judgemental! How
>insulting! How prejudiced! Who the hell do you think you
>are? We don't *want* to be like you, Rich, so just leave us
>alone! We eat meat, Rich, and we will *always* eat meat, so
>just go elsewhere and peddle your ridiculous sob stories!
>There are no takers here, and we are getting tired of
>telling you so. All you are accomplishing here is amassing
>a collection of bad feelings toward you.
>
>GET OFF THE MIKE!
>
Rick Kerchee
>Richterd, only on a ng would you be so brave! Try going in
>person into any large Indian event and get on the mike and
>announce that you believe that every Indian *there* should
>turn into a vegetarian just like you!
The way I see it, if Creator or Evolution or whatever had intended for humans
to be strictly vegetarians, we would have teeth like a cow instead of a dog.
There is a reason they call them canine teeth. Our teeth are made for the
ripping and cutting of meat. If we were supposed to be vegetarians we would
have teeth like cows. The last time I looked at my family, there's not a
bovine in the bunch. Now I'm gonna go have a nice juicy steak.
Rich
wrote:
>The way I see it, if Creator or Evolution or whatever had intended for humans
>to be strictly vegetarians, we would have teeth like a cow instead of a dog.
>There is a reason they call them canine teeth. Our teeth are made for the
>ripping and cutting of meat. If we were supposed to be vegetarians we would
>have teeth like cows. The last time I looked at my family, there's not a
>bovine in the bunch. Now I'm gonna go have a nice juicy steak.
>
>
>Rick
Care to stand in the slaugherhouse a while before dinner? Nothing like
the sound of terrified animals being slaughtered to build up a big
hunger.
Rich
>
>******************************************
>Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have
Cute, I like it! Microbiologists do it with culture ands sensitivity.
Jason Spaulding
this thread and even the entire NG is revolving around your distilled view of
reality as seen by Rich. I think what Wicakpi was saying is that we don't
give a s--t about Martinique, and the Makah and the Quineault will make up
their minds about how to do their business with God's help and without yours.
As far as preaching to NDNs, Rich, lemme invite you to the Buckhorn Inn in
scenic North Fork, CA. Typical Friday night, 50% loggers, 50% lumber mill
workers; 50% NDN, 50% Anglo. The wusses usually leave about 7 and the serious
drinking gets started. So about 9:30, you can get up on the bar and start
preaching about how NDNs should be vegetarians. Ha, the Monos won't even have
to to touch you, the Anglos will tear your ass up. I had my ass kicked by
everybody in the Buckhorn one time or another back in my drinking days, and I
was just minding my own business, the Buckhorn is that kind of place.
One of the points that I am trying repeatedly to drill through your thick
skull is that the Makah are not the enemy. Those folks in the Buckhorn are
not the enemy. If you think all 2000 Makah are as much of a threat to global
ecology as one Charles Hurwitz you are f---ed, Rich. That was why Judi Bari
was so dangerous, Rich, she knew the difference and was teaching white folk
loggers who the enemy was. So when are ya gonna quit pontificating about
stuff ya know nothing about? When are ya gonna get Watson to rebut my
challenge about phonyism? When are ya gonna find a verifiable URL on this
alleged blessing of the Dalai Lama to Saint Paul of the Cetaceans?
Again I repeat to you the profound saying of Bill W. "Take the cotton out of
your ears and put it in your mouth."
[usual caveats and disclaimers]
In article <37153d03...@news.cwo.com>,
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:04:19 -0700, "ddmc" <dd...@pond.net> wrote:
>
> >Richterd, only on a ng would you be so brave! Try going in
> >person into any large Indian event and get on the mike and
> >announce that you believe that every Indian *there* should
> >turn into a vegetarian just like you! Oh yeah, you'd get
> >booed out the door and clear down the road all right. But
> >here on the ng, even though you are repeatedly booed, you
> >insist on coming back to the mike again and again and again
> >and spouting your crap to us!
> When whaling ends in the US I will quit coming to this mike and go
> elsewhere.
> >
> >How rude you are! How assuming! How judgemental! How
> >insulting! How prejudiced! Who the hell do you think you
> >are? We don't *want* to be like you, Rich, so just leave us
> >alone! We eat meat, Rich, and we will *always* eat meat, so
> >just go elsewhere and peddle your ridiculous sob stories!
> >There are no takers here, and we are getting tired of
> >telling you so. All you are accomplishing here is amassing
> >a collection of bad feelings toward you.
> >
> >GET OFF THE MIKE!
> >
> So the truth about whaling is a little hard to face eh? Good!
> Otherwise why be offended at a simple description of traditional
> whaling practices...with some of the romance of the hunt stripped
> away. This is not even the Makah or North American natives spoken of
> here....just a quaint little island with traditional whaling. Kind of
> like a travelogue.
>
> Rich
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Rich
>So what is the point here Rich, do you assume because one people from another
>area are like other people in another area. I must say for you to understand
>an inkling of native cultural, it would take you years. Just assuming our
>customs around the world alike is wrong, so don't associate us with another
>culture from another country, we are different in lots of ways! To even
>attempt to associate us with the people in Mustique is pretty ignorant, and
>frankly, it is the same issue we talked about your not understanding the
>Makah.
Perhaps the Makah should post or publish exactly how they will hunt,
kill, and slaughter the whale (butcher, cut up, whatever). Maybe a
few drawings to help us all visualize the process. Then there would be
no doubt what would happen.
> Frankly, if the people were horrified they could have turned and looked
>somewhere else, because in reality these are the same people who would not help
>another stranger when they are being mugged, or attacked because they don't
>want to get involved.
And you know this how? Seems a rather broad generalization.
>Until they can frankly help another human being they
>shouldn't put the ideals on the rest.
Why? One must help a human being before he can help a whale?
Rich
sunf...@earthlink.net
>So the truth about whaling is a little hard to face eh? Good!
>Otherwise why be offended at a simple description of traditional
>whaling practices...with some of the romance of the hunt stripped
>away. This is not even the Makah or North American natives spoken of
>here....just a quaint little island with traditional whaling. Kind of
>like a travelogue.
That was not "truth," it was propoganda. The so-called article was written
with a clear anti-whaling bias, intended to play on the sentiments of couch
ridden Melrose watchers who have never processed (oops, I meant "slaughtered"
or "butchered") their own food, and have no intimate knowledge of or
appreciation for the sacrifice of an animal. It's easy to feel queasy about
the nuts and bolts of subsistence when you think meat is something that
appears on the shelf wrapped in plastic, and that sticks are a fish's natural
state.
Jason Spaulding
You really are more stupid than your vocabulary would indicate, Rich. You are
not doing one thing to help whales, all you are doing is jerking yourself off
on Usenet, before an audience that has seen it all before. You are a
self-centered egoerotic waste of bandwidth who cares naught about the circle
of life outside himself. Go play on I-5. Go preach to the American legion. Go
away.
In article <37154c48...@news.cwo.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
son...@jaguarsystems.com
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
I snipped a lot here and there.
> "A mother whale lies on a beach as islanders strip her of her meat and
>
> blubber in a frenzy of excitement.
The only question I want answered here is: did the islanders eat the whale
meat? If so, then I don't think they did anything wrong.
Cutting up freshly killed meat is a bloody gory process. I come from a family
of hunters, and I managed to survive to adulthood because of that, instead of
literally dying of malnutrition halfway through childhood. This world is
constructed in such a way that ALL life, even plant life, survives by feeding
on other life. That's just the way things are.
sondra
http://www.jaguarsystems.com/sondra
Rich
<drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>You really aren't the brightest candle in the box, are ya, Rich? You think
>this thread and even the entire NG is revolving around your distilled view of
>reality as seen by Rich. I think what Wicakpi was saying is that we don't
>give a s--t about Martinique, and the Makah and the Quineault will make up
>their minds about how to do their business with God's help and without yours.
If there is whaling going on it is my business because I am making it
my business. If you don't give a shit then you don't have to read my
posts.
>As far as preaching to NDNs, Rich, lemme invite you to the Buckhorn Inn in
>scenic North Fork, CA. Typical Friday night, 50% loggers, 50% lumber mill
>workers; 50% NDN, 50% Anglo. The wusses usually leave about 7 and the serious
>drinking gets started. So about 9:30, you can get up on the bar and start
>preaching about how NDNs should be vegetarians. Ha, the Monos won't even have
>to to touch you, the Anglos will tear your ass up. I had my ass kicked by
>everybody in the Buckhorn one time or another back in my drinking days, and I
>was just minding my own business, the Buckhorn is that kind of place.
Sorry, bars and ass kicking isn't my idea of a fun evening out even
during my drinking days. I think I would rank that with whaling on a
list of favorite things not to do.
>
>One of the points that I am trying repeatedly to drill through your thick
>skull is that the Makah are not the enemy. Those folks in the Buckhorn are
>not the enemy. If you think all 2000 Makah are as much of a threat to global
>ecology as one Charles Hurwitz you are f---ed, Rich.
The Makah are the only entity in the United States that now practices,
or intends to practice whaling. I condemn whaling elsewhere in the
world, I will not ignore whaling in my own country just because it is
1)Native 2)Spiritual 3) Just 5 whales a year 4)Other countries do
worse 5)Fill in the blank. NO, No, NO!
>That was why Judi Bari
>was so dangerous, Rich, she knew the difference and was teaching white folk
>loggers who the enemy was. So when are ya gonna quit pontificating about
>stuff ya know nothing about?
When the Makah decied to quit whaling. What other traditional
practices are they persuing with such vigor? Everyone learning the
traditional language? Everyone making baskets? Everyone foraging in
the forests for food? These are all tradtional practices. How much
are they being followed by those so hungry for blood?
>When are ya gonna get Watson to rebut my
>challenge about phonyism?
I ain't some SSCS big wig. You got as much chance talking to Paul as
I do.
>When are ya gonna find a verifiable URL on this
>alleged blessing of the Dalai Lama to Saint Paul of the Cetaceans?
Not my job. Do your own research.
>
>Again I repeat to you the profound saying of Bill W. "Take the cotton out of
>your ears and put it in your mouth."
Bill W never had a profound saying in his life unless it was to pick
up some bimbo. Take it over to alt.recovery.from-12-steps to debate
Bill W further.
Rick Kerchee
>Care to stand in the slaugherhouse a while before dinner? Nothing like
>the sound of terrified animals being slaughtered to build up a big
>hunger.
Doesn't bother me none haits....we had cattle when I was kid...seen it done.
Rick
******************************************
ddmc
Good!
>Otherwise why be offended at a simple description of
traditional
>whaling practices...with some of the romance of the hunt
stripped
>away.
That is NOT what set me off. YOU did, with your constant
sniveling around here in a place that has made it all too
apparent to you that you are not welcome since you do not
wish to respect the culture. WE EAT MEAT. Get used to it!
This is not even the Makah or North American natives spoken
of
>here....just a quaint little island with traditional
whaling. Kind of
>like a travelogue.
Oh yeah, so is your drivel a "travelogue." So travel with
it elsewhere. Go to the vegetarian ng or something.
Wicakpi
>
>Rich
>
reds...@wolfenet.com
none Rich, that is the point, you don't understand.
Rich wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:55:39 -0700, reds...@wolfenet.com wrote:
>
> >So what is the point here Rich, do you assume because one people from another
> >area are like other people in another area. I must say for you to understand
> >an inkling of native cultural, it would take you years. Just assuming our
> >customs around the world alike is wrong, so don't associate us with another
> >culture from another country, we are different in lots of ways! To even
> >attempt to associate us with the people in Mustique is pretty ignorant, and
> >frankly, it is the same issue we talked about your not understanding the
> >Makah.
> Perhaps the Makah should post or publish exactly how they will hunt,
> kill, and slaughter the whale (butcher, cut up, whatever). Maybe a
> few drawings to help us all visualize the process. Then there would be
> no doubt what would happen.
> > Frankly, if the people were horrified they could have turned and looked
> >somewhere else, because in reality these are the same people who would not help
> >another stranger when they are being mugged, or attacked because they don't
> >want to get involved.
> And you know this how? Seems a rather broad generalization.
> >Until they can frankly help another human being they
> >shouldn't put the ideals on the rest.
> Why? One must help a human being before he can help a whale?
>
sje...@rocketmail.com
don't you take yours to alt.paulwatson, or alt.someone wants to hear anything
else you have to say. You have about worn it out here. Why don't you go
after Slade Gorton and his families canneries..save the fish. OOps..I'll bet
you eat fish. Well, save the carrots, or the squash.
Jerry
In article <371562af...@news.cwo.com>,
> Rich
>
> **************************************************************************
> Protect our future - Sign the online petition for mandatory
> labeling of genetically engineered foods -
> http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html
> ***************************************************************************
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Aanta Forsgren
>
> Blood and Slaughter in the Playground of the Wealthy:
Well they got to see a piece of the real life for once.....
> Then, to our horror, we saw the launch come past with a baby whale tied to its
> side. They had killed the baby whale to lure the mother in. Throughout the whole episode we felt totally > helpless."
>
> Although the baby was about 15ft long, it was no more than three weeks
> old. It was so young that its tail had not yet fully unfurled. The
> 32-ton mother and baby were then towed off to a whaling station on the
> island of Petit
About the baby whale, i think that it never entered your mind that they
might have made a mistake of not spotting the juvenile whale when they
already had started hunting the older?
If so they might have killed the younger to prevent the young from
suffering -if so shows they are desent people there whalers. :)
In any case such mistakes sometimes happen in the hunting of
landanimals, and when that happens we have put in an enormous effort to
get the young one -for exactly that reason- to prevent needless
suffering.
> By the next day the mother had been stripped of her flesh in
> what Maria describes as "an orgy of violence", with locals wading
> through waters turned red from the blood. "This was done for sheer
> blood lust", she said.
Bloodlust, hardly but a gory piece of work that needs to be done
properly -regardless of the feeling in your gut. Added to this highly
emotional language -where's the logical arguments?
> The International Whaling Commission lets hunters on nearby Bequia
> island kill two whales each year as part of "aboriginal subsistence > hunting".
Good, only wish that they would give some other native peoples a break
too -specially in the arctic, but well i'm advocating that area since
i'm biased on behalf of my brothers and sisters. :)
WBR
Aanta.
clat...@my-dejanews.com
serious, judgemental, off-base, inbred, wasted, hemped-up, wasting air, etc...
(an old joke): NDN definition for "Vegetarian" = Bad Hunter *LMAO*
lisa dillon
Whales there are in Calif. and across "your country" as you so rudely
put it, when you go
free all the Willys then you can come back and
tell indigenous people about the Whales....Lisa D....
de...@postmark.net
Trika
de...@postmark.net
Did ya tell her they taste good too? Makes ya kinda wonder what her
ancestors ran around dressed in.. ya know?
Wonder if she had a leather purse and shoes? Wonder if she drives a
car using fossil fuels? Wonder if she had wooden things in her house
and veggies in her salad drawer, or reads the paper, or doesn't the
life in a plant count as much as the life in a rabbit or bull?
Even a head of lettuce dies when you cut it up.
Trika
On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:05:24 -0800, "John W. Hart" <kl...@alaska.net>
wrote:
>Me too, Rick. Used to work in a slaughterhouse. Often ate my lunch in the
>killing room with carcasses on the floor. Also hunt and butcher small and
>large game animals, trap for furs. Once had a bunny hugger approach me at a
>fur sale and scream at me about "killing poor defenseless animals for their
>fur". Said to her, "Yep , thet's right lady, and if your hide was worth
>anything, I'd take it too." For some reason, she left. Just haven't been
>able to figure out why. :))
>John
>
>Rick Kerchee <coma...@texas.net> wrote in message
>news:dPdR2.22$aI5...@news2.giganews.com...
justanoldman
> In article <37141a8a...@news.cwo.com>,
> sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
>
> I snipped a lot here and there.
>
> > "A mother whale lies on a beach as islanders strip her of her meat and
> >
> > blubber in a frenzy of excitement.
>
> The only question I want answered here is: did the islanders eat the whale
> meat? If so, then I don't think they did anything wrong.
>
> Cutting up freshly killed meat is a bloody gory process. I come from a family
> of hunters, and I managed to survive to adulthood because of that, instead of
> literally dying of malnutrition halfway through childhood. This world is
> constructed in such a way that ALL life, even plant life, survives by feeding
> on other life. That's just the way things are.
>
> sondra
> http://www.jaguarsystems.com/sondra
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
110% right sister-Sondra.. And we, in turn, are committed to pay the
"ultimate price": returning our blood & bones & flesh to the earth that
provided all that nutrition.. It was Clause #1 of humankind's contract for
survival.
jaom/énéthekwé
meggie
"ddmc" <dd...@pond.net> wrote:
> Richterd, only on a ng would you be so brave! Try going in
> person into any large Indian event and get on the mike and
> announce that you believe that every Indian *there* should
> turn into a vegetarian just like you! Oh yeah, you'd get
> booed out the door and clear down the road all right.
I've admitted, right here on this NG, at least twice that I can remember, to
being a vegetarian. To be honest, it was kind of a scary thing to do. While I
have told other NDN folks that reducing or eliminating their meat consumption,
along with *ANYTHING* made with lard (NOOOOOOoooo! Please don't call the
frybread police!!!!)));) could improve their health, I would NEVER DREAM of
telling ANYONE they don't have the right to eat meat.
Now, I just wish I could get my Mom off my back for eating like I do :)
meggie
Jason Spaulding
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:06:44 GMT, Jason Spaulding
> <drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> >You really aren't the brightest candle in the box, are ya, Rich? You think
> >this thread and even the entire NG is revolving around your distilled view of
> >reality as seen by Rich. I think what Wicakpi was saying is that we don't
> >give a s--t about Martinique, and the Makah and the Quineault will make up
> >their minds about how to do their business with God's help and without yours.
> If there is whaling going on it is my business because I am making it
> my business. If you don't give a shit then you don't have to read my
> posts.
Oh, I suppose "Buddy" reached out to you and asked you to save him from the
savage Makah. Yeah, Rich, the California Health and Safety Code has a
provision for that, "5150".
If you want something glamorous and necessary, why doncha take on saving the
Sierra Nevada Bighorn? About 100 left. Course, saving them might include
snuffing some mountain lions, homo europeanus has messed up the balance, gotta
take some unpleasant temporary measures.
Or how about riparian habitat in the Central Valley, less than 4% left. Or
maybe just one little endangered elderberry beetle that depends on that
habitat. Of course, that beetle isn't as dramatic or glamorous as "Buddy".
Not gonna be on the 6 o'clock news unless ya stop a freeway or somep'n.
Or how about endangered cultures such as the Makah? I could give you the
contacts for at least 80 tribes that are quickly going culturally extinct
today. If you wanna go worldwide, that figure is in the thousands. Oh, I
forgot, you don't care about the people.
The NDN people in this NG are mostly walking in two worlds, silicon millenium
and their heritage. I have no easy or quick advice for any individual with
that task. The non-NDN people in this NG mostly mean well, some are present
allies, some could be future allies. You are not well-meaning, you insult us
with your arrogance, your preaching about biocentrism which native people
discovered thousands of years ago, your lack of interest for us as
individuals making lives for ourselves.
> >As far as preaching to NDNs, Rich, lemme invite you to the Buckhorn Inn in
> >scenic North Fork, CA.
<snip>
> Sorry, bars and ass kicking isn't my idea of a fun evening out even
> during my drinking days. I think I would rank that with whaling on a
> list of favorite things not to do.
Well, I would rank the average dude who kicked my ass at the Buckhorn as lots
more fun than you.
>
> >
> >One of the points that I am trying repeatedly to drill through your thick
> >skull is that the Makah are not the enemy. Those folks in the Buckhorn are
> >not the enemy. If you think all 2000 Makah are as much of a threat to global
> >ecology as one Charles Hurwitz you are f---ed, Rich.
> The Makah are the only entity in the United States that now practices,
> or intends to practice whaling. I condemn whaling elsewhere in the
> world, I will not ignore whaling in my own country just because it is
> 1)Native 2)Spiritual 3) Just 5 whales a year 4)Other countries do
> worse 5)Fill in the blank. NO, No, NO!
You made that clear. Two year olds are good with that NO also.
>
> >That was why Judi Bari
> >was so dangerous, Rich, she knew the difference and was teaching white folk
> >loggers who the enemy was. So when are ya gonna quit pontificating about
> >stuff ya know nothing about?
> When the Makah decied to quit whaling. What other traditional
> practices are they persuing with such vigor? Everyone learning the
> traditional language? Everyone making baskets? Everyone foraging in
> the forests for food? These are all tradtional practices. How much
> are they being followed by those so hungry for blood?
Why doncha find out? Some of us have. If the Makah were phonies on this, other
Indians would shut it down in a heartbeat. And "everyone" in the tribe doesn't
have to adopt traditional practices. Some are doing woodcarving, fishing, yep,
gathering traditional foods besides whale.
The Hopi, the most traditional and peaceful tribe I know of, sacrifice
eagles. That is not bloodthirsty, just part of their ceremonial circle. Say,
Rich, what have you learned about NDNs here? You have very traditional NDNs
within an hour of Orland. What have you tried to learn of the Wintun or Pit
River? Or any of these endangered cultures?
> >When are ya gonna get Watson to rebut my
> >challenge about phonyism?
> I ain't some SSCS big wig. You got as much chance talking to Paul as
> I do.
Paul isn't here running off at the keyboard. You are.
>
> >When are ya gonna find a verifiable URL on this
> >alleged blessing of the Dalai Lama to Saint Paul of the Cetaceans?
> Not my job. Do your own research.
My research indicates phony, not on any Free Tibet site. Back to you, Rich.
> >
> >Again I repeat to you the profound saying of Bill W. "Take the cotton out of
> >your ears and put it in your mouth."
> Bill W never had a profound saying in his life unless it was to pick
> up some bimbo. Take it over to alt.recovery.from-12-steps to debate
> Bill W further.
>
Ya really are ignorant Rich. Slamming someone whose words have helped over 2
million people with a fatal disease. Oh, I guess that's the keyword, people.
No, Bill W. didn't save any whales, far as I know.
And as far as other Usenet groups, I cross-posted to earth-first just as a
test. Ya got no friends there, Rich, not as far as I can tell. The reason I
joined Earth First! at the very beginning coz their first official act was
put up a monument to Cochise, a great American patriot. I wonder what Ed
Abbey would say about you and St. Paul of the Cetaceans. Laugh his ass off,
probably.
Yeah, Rich, I know you're gonna keep jerking yourself off with the delusion
that posting here is gonna save "Buddy". "As a dog returneth to his vomit, so
doth a fool to his folly." As true today as it was 3000 years ago.
reds...@wolfenet.com
Rich wrote:
> Rich, Since you do not live in the great NW, you would be surprised how much is
> retained here by the tribes, languages and songs, and a lot of the old time
> traditions despite the pressures from the outside white society who think they
> have a right to tell Indian people how to live. And yes, basket making is still
> retained as well as carving, etc. So why should we give up any of those
> traditions just because you disagree. Maybe it would be nice if we came to your
> house and told you how to live, and governed your every move. Frankly, it might
> be quiet boring. No culture.
John W. Hart
<de...@postmark.net> wrote in message
news:37163e70...@news.skylands.net...
> *shock* *horror* How could you John???? hehehe
> Did ya tell her they taste good too? Makes ya kinda wonder what her
> ancestors ran around dressed in.. ya know?
> Wonder if she had a leather purse and shoes? Wonder if she drives a
> car using fossil fuels? Wonder if she had wooden things in her house
> and veggies in her salad drawer, or reads the paper, or doesn't the
> life in a plant count as much as the life in a rabbit or bull?
> Even a head of lettuce dies when you cut it up.
>
> Trika
>
Aww, I was feeling onery that day. Must have had something to do with
somebody giving me a hard time about putting food on the table and clothes
on my kids. Or could be the small amount of NDN blood I got started to boil
a bit. :>}
John
ddmc
summer-fun money. Clams, crab (80 pounds a day, King
Crab!), shrimp, oysters. Yum, used to eat 'em RAW for
lunch. And, there's STILL nothing like raw kidneys!
Wicakpi
John W. Hart wrote in message
<92415666...@news.remarQ.com>...
>Me too, Rick. Used to work in a slaughterhouse. Often ate
my lunch in the
>killing room with carcasses on the floor. Also hunt and
butcher small and
>large game animals, trap for furs. Once had a bunny hugger
approach me at a
>fur sale and scream at me about "killing poor defenseless
animals for their
>fur". Said to her, "Yep , thet's right lady, and if your
hide was worth
>anything, I'd take it too." For some reason, she left.
Just haven't been
>able to figure out why. :))
>John
>
>Rick Kerchee <coma...@texas.net> wrote in message
>news:dPdR2.22$aI5...@news2.giganews.com...
>> In article <37154778...@news.cwo.com>,
sea_...@orland.net (Rich)
>wrote:
Rich
>Rich, here is one more thing you don't know anything about...Bill W.
I know plenty about Bill W. Been there, done that, and all I got was
a tee shirt with one day at a time on it. Don't do that anymore,
found a more sane way to live.
> Why
>don't you take yours to alt.paulwatson, or alt.someone wants to hear anything
>else you have to say. You have about worn it out here. Why don't you go
>after Slade Gorton and his families canneries..save the fish.
Tell me more.
> OOps..I'll bet
>you eat fish.
No, I don't eat fish. The whales are lots higher up on the
intellegence chain, a lot higher up than many around here certainly.
Rich
Sorry Lisa, I do not have to free every whale to bitch about native
whaling. This is "my country" and it is not rude of me to say so, I
have every legal right to be here as you do. You seem very concerned
about whaleing in Mexico, Japan, and in tanks across the US. You have
mentioned it many times. What are you doing about it? Have you any
info to share? Or is this just another smoke screen, that I should
somehow save every other whale in the world before focusing on the
Makah slaughter. Well, I would guess I have worked and donated for
more time and money to the saving of the whales from slaughter than
you, unless you are a true silent worker. If so, my apologies. IF
not, then you have no place to criticize my concerns. Otherwise, if
you think that any kind of whaling is OK, just say so. Like the guys
here who like to eat their lunches in the slaugherhouse. Some folk
just think that is ok. I don't belittle them for that, I don't agree
with it, but I think they are being honest unless they are just trying
to mess with me. But if you have a concern for the whales, then tell
me just what you have done for them? Otherwise just can it with your
fake concern as to what I "should" be doing.
Rich
>*shock* *horror* How could you John???? hehehe
> Did ya tell her they taste good too? Makes ya kinda wonder what her
>ancestors ran around dressed in.. ya know?
>Wonder if she had a leather purse and shoes? Wonder if she drives a
>car using fossil fuels? Wonder if she had wooden things in her house
>and veggies in her salad drawer, or reads the paper, or doesn't the
>life in a plant count as much as the life in a rabbit or bull?
>Even a head of lettuce dies when you cut it up.
Guess y'all never heard of the concept of evolution and more developed
nervous systems. That there might be a lot more pain and suffering
involved in a whale being sliced up alive than a carrot.
Rich
wrote:
>110% right sister-Sondra.. And we, in turn, are committed to pay the
>"ultimate price": returning our blood & bones & flesh to the earth that
>provided all that nutrition.. It was Clause #1 of humankind's contract for
>survival.
>jaom/énéthekwé
ALL of us pay that price old man, not one can escape from it. Yet we
do not all demand a blood sacrifice for payment.
Rich
<drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Oh, I suppose "Buddy" reached out to you and asked you to save him from the
>savage Makah. Yeah, Rich, the California Health and Safety Code has a
>provision for that, "5150".
A truly intellegent comment. Know any other codes?
>
>If you want something glamorous and necessary, why doncha take on saving the
>Sierra Nevada Bighorn? About 100 left. Course, saving them might include
>snuffing some mountain lions, homo europeanus has messed up the balance, gotta
>take some unpleasant temporary measures.
>
>Or how about riparian habitat in the Central Valley, less than 4% left. Or
>maybe just one little endangered elderberry beetle that depends on that
>habitat. Of course, that beetle isn't as dramatic or glamorous as "Buddy".
>Not gonna be on the 6 o'clock news unless ya stop a freeway or somep'n.
Always amuses me that you think I have time and energy to cure all the
earths ills. RIght now I got time and energy to deal with the whaling
situation...not the bighorn nor the meadowfoam nor whatever else you
would rather I deal with. The 6 o'clock news don't cover the Makah
either, at least not down here. BTW, I am involved in local issues.
>
>
>Or how about endangered cultures such as the Makah? I could give you the
>contacts for at least 80 tribes that are quickly going culturally extinct
>today. If you wanna go worldwide, that figure is in the thousands. Oh, I
>forgot, you don't care about the people.
Funny, have you heard about Feather RIver Casino wanting to serve
alcohol. Seems that many local restaurants and bars in Oroville are
going to go out of business if that happens....but they are just white
guys anyway. After all, they can't offer gambling like a sovregn
nation. Give me a break on your endangered cultures, it ain't
happening around here. If it is elsewhere, maybe, as a native, YOU
should work on it! Get off your crap that I need to do it, it isn't
going to happen!
>The NDN people in this NG are mostly walking in two worlds, silicon millenium
>and their heritage. I have no easy or quick advice for any individual with
>that task. The non-NDN people in this NG mostly mean well, some are present
>allies, some could be future allies. You are not well-meaning, you insult us
>with your arrogance, your preaching about biocentrism which native people
>discovered thousands of years ago, your lack of interest for us as
>individuals making lives for ourselves.
Why, do you care so much about me as a euroamerican and preserving my
culture? What are you doing to help me? Insulting? I have seen the
current "balls"thread on euroamericans. Don't act so pure, you cast a
lot of shit around too. SOme of it is funny. But don't play the
"noble savage" bit here cuz it doesn't wash.
>
>> >As far as preaching to NDNs, Rich, lemme invite you to the Buckhorn Inn in
>> >scenic North Fork, CA.
><snip>
>> Sorry, bars and ass kicking isn't my idea of a fun evening out even
>> during my drinking days. I think I would rank that with whaling on a
>> list of favorite things not to do.
>
>Well, I would rank the average dude who kicked my ass at the Buckhorn as lots
>more fun than you.
Good, not my kind of fun.
>
>>
>> >
>> >One of the points that I am trying repeatedly to drill through your thick
>> >skull is that the Makah are not the enemy. Those folks in the Buckhorn are
>> >not the enemy. If you think all 2000 Makah are as much of a threat to global
>> >ecology as one Charles Hurwitz you are f---ed, Rich.
>
>
>> The Makah are the only entity in the United States that now practices,
>> or intends to practice whaling. I condemn whaling elsewhere in the
>> world, I will not ignore whaling in my own country just because it is
>> 1)Native 2)Spiritual 3) Just 5 whales a year 4)Other countries do
>> worse 5)Fill in the blank. NO, No, NO!
>
>You made that clear. Two year olds are good with that NO also.
Yes, and you have no reply to the above. Not surprising since there
is no defense for Makah whale slaugher.
>
>
>Why doncha find out? Some of us have. If the Makah were phonies on this, other
>Indians would shut it down in a heartbeat. And "everyone" in the tribe doesn't
>have to adopt traditional practices. Some are doing woodcarving, fishing, yep,
>gathering traditional foods besides whale.
No way, I would be told that it is none of my business. Or, if like
the Quileute, it would be implied that they were apples. What business
do you have shutting down what another tribe does, eh?
>> >When are ya gonna find a verifiable URL on this
>> >alleged blessing of the Dalai Lama to Saint Paul of the Cetaceans?
>
>> Not my job. Do your own research.
>
>My research indicates phony, not on any Free Tibet site. Back to you, Rich.
Then we leave it there. Feel free to dispute it anywhere.
>
>> >
>> >Again I repeat to you the profound saying of Bill W. "Take the cotton out of
>> >your ears and put it in your mouth."
>
>
>> Bill W never had a profound saying in his life unless it was to pick
>> up some bimbo. Take it over to alt.recovery.from-12-steps to debate
>> Bill W further.
>>
>
>Ya really are ignorant Rich. Slamming someone whose words have helped over 2
>million people with a fatal disease. Oh, I guess that's the keyword, people.
>No, Bill W. didn't save any whales, far as I know.
AA has helped some but very few. Less than 5% of alcoholics who go to
AA remain sober. Far more people remain sober on their own or with
other programs. Believe me, I am NOT ignorant about Bill W, like I
said else where.. been there, done that, etc. That's why I
reccomended alt.recovery.from-12-steps for this discussion. Just a
group of us who think Bill W did not to much to help folks and managed
to hurt a lot of others. I won't argue AA stuff here with you, I
think it's crap, but works for some...perhaps for you. You could learn
about RR, SMART,NLP, etc there...I won't argue sobriety here, but I
won't tolerate Bill W being preached to me. I don't buy the disease
thing either...but whatever.
---snip some other vomit---
Rich
<drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Bridge to fire control: level one flame
>
>You really are more stupid than your vocabulary would indicate, Rich. You are
>not doing one thing to help whales, all you are doing is jerking yourself off
>on Usenet, before an audience that has seen it all before. You are a
>self-centered egoerotic waste of bandwidth who cares naught about the circle
>of life outside himself. Go play on I-5. Go preach to the American legion. Go
>away.
Whatssamatter? Afraid that if people really knew what the Makah and
other tradional hunters do to whales they would loose what little
support they have? Face it dude, I have been insulted by far better
than you, you are pathetic. You are a racist supporter of whale
slaughter and your "war stories" of you environmental support are
negated by your blindness to current issues. I don't give one shit
what you did in the past, what the hell are you doing now? Go play
your holy native crap somewhere else, the whaling by anyone in the US
will be stopped, be it by natives, whites, big biz, or whomever. The
stupid support of "traditional" this and "traditional" that is what
has bred so much unreast in the world today. Look at all the good
that has come out of "traditional" concerns in Yugoslavia. I don't
give one hoot, what "tradition" you defend...at the end of the 20th
century it means very little. So go ahead, lay a few more insults
down now. You ain't very good. Tell a few enviro war stories..don't
mean much coming from you. Go work your concers, I'll work mine. Come
up and play on 99W, I'll meet ya with some folks in my truck. Got a
few militia buddies who don't care if you eat meat or not, just like a
little target practice.
COINTELPRO
> Whatssamatter? Afraid that if people really knew what the Makah and
> other tradional hunters do to whales they would loose what little
> support they have?
I don't think anyone is afraid to have information provided. The problem
is when decisions are based on information that prioritizes only one
part of an issue: the anti-whalers emphasize blood and guts while
denying culture and heritage, while pro-whalers romanticize tradition
without sufficient attention to the nuts and bolts of whaling.
Fortunately, whaling customs pursued by Makahs are so insignificant in
their impact that even the most vile blood and guts propaganda fails to
inflate the opposition enough to matter.
> Face it dude, I have been insulted by far better
> than you, you are pathetic.
And you seem to have learned well, judging by your inclination to adopt
the tone of your former condescending opponents.
> You are a racist supporter of whale
> slaughter and your "war stories" of you environmental support are
> negated by your blindness to current issues. I don't give one shit
> what you did in the past, what the hell are you doing now?
Um, what kind of challenge is this? A man who rants on an internet
newsgroup is demanding that someone else substantiate THEIR use of time?
Rick, you seem concerned that mere words alone are already killing
actual whales, or else why the desperate condemnation of someone else's
THOUGHTS?
> Go play your holy native crap somewhere else,
Where better than alt.native? If words and thoughts on a computer screen
scare you so much that you have to answer it with such acrimony and
profanity, than alt.native (or the internet) may not be the best place
for you. You respond with such angry fear that it's almost as if you
believe that newsgroup conjecture is in fact killing whales directly!
[snip hillbilly flea-market militia rants and threats...Does this guy
remind anyone else of Dale from "King of the Hill?" All conservative
conspiracy talk and no substance?]
sje...@rocketmail.com
short changed yourself with a tee shirt. That is here nor there. None are
greater or lesser due to your estimation of intelligence. All were created
with the what they needed by the Creator. There is a balance and a spiritual
aspect in the way things are. These animals "give" of themselves for the
survival of others. The fish and other things the whales eat do this. The
whales are taken with respect and graditiude with a spiritual relationship
between both. This aspect is mostly lost to European culture. They may give
thanks to God an pray over the food, but most don't have a ceremony and give
thanks and respect to the creatures that have given themselves. Do you fault
the whale, do you fault the wolf, the lion, the birds or the worms? People
weren't necessarily meant to be farmers,consumers of mass produced food.
Something is lost in that process. An honoring of a relationship and
understanding that has been all but lost is what is at stake here. It is not
about the whale and it is not about the people, is about a greater
relationship that somehow needs to be addressed. My input.
Jerry
In article <3716bc48...@news.cwo.com>,
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:16:49 GMT, sje...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
> >Rich, here is one more thing you don't know anything about...Bill W.
> I know plenty about Bill W. Been there, done that, and all I got was
> a tee shirt with one day at a time on it. Don't do that anymore,
> found a more sane way to live.
> > Why
> >don't you take yours to alt.paulwatson, or alt.someone wants to hear anything
> >else you have to say. You have about worn it out here. Why don't you go
> >after Slade Gorton and his families canneries..save the fish.
> Tell me more.
> > OOps..I'll bet
> >you eat fish.
> No, I don't eat fish. The whales are lots higher up on the
> intellegence chain, a lot higher up than many around here certainly.
>
> Rich
>
> **************************************************************************
> Protect our future - Sign the online petition for mandatory
> labeling of genetically engineered foods -
> http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html
> ***************************************************************************
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
sje...@rocketmail.com
buddies" not himself. He could not get his hands bloody, since he is only a
carrot killer, but has some Militia "friends"? MY, GAWD, does Rich have mean
side? Sort of like the anti abortionists who blow up or kill the clinic
personnel.
Jerry
In article <3716e26...@news.cwo.com>,
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 04:31:31 GMT, Jason Spaulding
> <drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> >Bridge to fire control: level one flame
> >
> >You really are more stupid than your vocabulary would indicate, Rich. You are
> >not doing one thing to help whales, all you are doing is jerking yourself off
> >on Usenet, before an audience that has seen it all before. You are a
> >self-centered egoerotic waste of bandwidth who cares naught about the circle
> >of life outside himself. Go play on I-5. Go preach to the American legion. Go
> >away.
> Whatssamatter? Afraid that if people really knew what the Makah and
> other tradional hunters do to whales they would loose what little
> support they have? Face it dude, I have been insulted by far better
> than you, you are pathetic. You are a racist supporter of whale
> slaughter and your "war stories" of you environmental support are
> negated by your blindness to current issues. I don't give one shit
> what you did in the past, what the hell are you doing now? Go play
> your holy native crap somewhere else, the whaling by anyone in the US
> will be stopped, be it by natives, whites, big biz, or whomever. The
> stupid support of "traditional" this and "traditional" that is what
> has bred so much unreast in the world today. Look at all the good
> that has come out of "traditional" concerns in Yugoslavia. I don't
> give one hoot, what "tradition" you defend...at the end of the 20th
> century it means very little. So go ahead, lay a few more insults
> down now. You ain't very good. Tell a few enviro war stories..don't
> mean much coming from you. Go work your concers, I'll work mine. Come
> up and play on 99W, I'll meet ya with some folks in my truck. Got a
> few militia buddies who don't care if you eat meat or not, just like a
> little target practice.
>
lisa dillon
question on captive Whales? as a matter
of fact you never have responded to any of
my questions on captive Whales hmmm
wonder why that is....Lisa D....
lisa dillon
poop.......Lisa D....
lisa dillon
Jason Spaulding
circle and talk about how good tofu is, and saving Buddy the Whale? Save a
whale - snuff a Makah? That sorta thing? Christian values? Aryan heritage
stuff? See, I haven't actually pointed a firearm at a human being since I
took up the drum, kinda contradictory, so I'm told. But you're mighty
tempting, Rich.
But it's gotta be North Fork, Rich. They got some badass Monos there. Your
imaginary buddies oughta meet the Stankiewiczs, Rich, they're not too
traditional. There are actually still quite a few Stankiewiczs not in prison.
I think we could help make your militia buddies' weekend pretty interesting.
Just give me enough time, I'd have to give the drum away before the weekend.
For a warmup, come up to Nevada County in June. Those little rabbits just
being born now, they will be good eating size in June. They aren't scared
either till they get older. You just walk up close and pop 'em in the neck
with a .22. Then ya cut the throat and paint yer body with the blood, give
thanks for the food to come. Gut it and eat the liver raw, right there. Ya
never need Viagra if ya eat raw rabbit liver, Rich, it's free too. Then ya
skin 'em. Ever heard the expression, easy as skinning a rabbit? That's true,
put the other good "variety meats" in a little baggy we took along. Now
whatcha got left doesn't look too much like Thumper in the Walt Disney
movie, to be sure, but the best is yet to come.
So ya go home and take a hammer and bust out the brains, ya use that to tan
the rabbit hide. Feet are good luck, make good nontraditional keychains, well
maybe they weren't too good of luck for . Then the eyes are good raw too,
cook 'em if ya want. Lotsa B vitamins in the eyes. Any fleas jump off,
that's the hors d'oeurves, Paiute style. Paiute joke, 7 course dinner, rabbit
and fleas.
Now you can quarter up the main carcass, and use just about any chicken recipe
works good for rabbit. I used to saute 'em in Ripple. You can fry up those
variety pieces, make a cream sauce with that, dang, I am getting hungry right
now.
Then you thank God in your own way for the meal you are about to receive and
chow down. Acorn goes good with rabbit, maybe some miner's lettuce salad, some
squash.
Then if I have a girlfriend by then I will see if that rabbit liver is doing
its job. I get one of these sissy women, she will insist on washing off the
blood first.
Ooooh, I forgot. When ya bring up your "truck", be sure and show me the
cupholders.
then in the fall, we can go out and eat Bambi.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Rick Kerchee
Kidney on a stick!..oh yeah...
In article <0mAR2.766$GQ2....@news20.ispnews.com>, "ddmc" <dd...@pond.net>
wrote:
>As a kid, I used to clean seafood in the fisheries for
>summer-fun money. Clams, crab (80 pounds a day, King
>Crab!), shrimp, oysters. Yum, used to eat 'em RAW for
>lunch. And, there's STILL nothing like raw kidneys!
>Wicakpi
>
Rick Kerchee
>On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:16:49 GMT, sje...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
>No, I don't eat fish. The whales are lots higher up on the
>intellegence chain, a lot higher up than many around here certainly.
>
>Rich
>
Why dude!...Such thoughtful self-analysis. And none of us thought you'd ever
see the light.
son...@jaguarsystems.com
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:17:34 -0400, n...@inthe.game (justanoldman)
> wrote:
>
> >110% right sister-Sondra.. And we, in turn, are committed to pay the
> >"ultimate price": returning our blood & bones & flesh to the earth that
> >provided all that nutrition.. It was Clause #1 of humankind's contract for
> >survival.
> >jaom/énéthekwé
> ALL of us pay that price old man, not one can escape from it. Yet we
> do not all demand a blood sacrifice for payment.
I don't know what, exactly, you mean by "blood sacrifice", but each of us
kills in order to live.
Rich, I hold ALL life to be sacred, and that includes the carrot and the pine
tree as much as the rabbit and the whale. You distinguish between the "more
intelligent" and the "less intelligent". I don't. Furthermore, this
"rating" of life in that manner seems to me to be just one more step in a
long and troublesome history of "ownership" and "racial superiority." That
attitude created the genocide of so many Indian nations; it justified
slavery; and it insisted God himself had handed the Americas over to the
Europeans, personally involving himself in slaughtering Indians for the good
of those same Europeans. The ultimate value of an oak tree and the ultimate
value of a whale is not different for me. It is NOT wrong to kill a whale or
a seal for food and clothing. It IS wrong to kill a whale to get rich. It
is NOT wrong to cut down an oak tree to build shelter. It IS wrong to cut
down an oak tree to gain wealth.
sondra
http://www.jaguarsystems.com/sondra
jeanine r pinkney
There's a time to eat
and a time to be et
a mystery nobody's ever splained yet.
to hunt whale or deer
or to eat from a farm, or
who is to say which is better karma?
Some say "I'll eat only rice and beans"
OThers say even carrots can scream!
I wish I could live on light, water, and air
But God gave me teeth and a gut and hair.
One day I'll lie down,
my flesh I will give
So the grass and the worms and the trees all can live!
So that's why I thank whatever I eat
Cos one way or another
We are all Meat!
SWAK
"HotDog!"
The Lunch Guy
jeanine r pinkney
from here down younder in New Orleans
All taht stuff goes together with whalin
Taken in pieces it don't mean beans
SWAK
"HotDog!"
Nothing and Nobody
ddmc
insults? Guess that's all you got left since, you ain't
getting anywhere with your other halfassed garbages, enit?
Hey, better hurry it up, Leolee's still waiting for you on
that slow boat to China!
Wicakpi
Rich wrote in message <3716bc48...@news.cwo.com>...
>On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:16:49 GMT, sje...@rocketmail.com
wrote:
>
>>Rich, here is one more thing you don't know anything
about...Bill W.
>I know plenty about Bill W. Been there, done that, and all
I got was
>a tee shirt with one day at a time on it. Don't do that
anymore,
>found a more sane way to live.
>> Why
>>don't you take yours to alt.paulwatson, or alt.someone
wants to hear anything
>>else you have to say. You have about worn it out here.
Why don't you go
>>after Slade Gorton and his families canneries..save the
fish.
>Tell me more.
>> OOps..I'll bet
>>you eat fish.
>No, I don't eat fish. The whales are lots higher up on the
>intellegence chain, a lot higher up than many around here
certainly.
>
>Rich
>
>
>***********************************************************
ddmc
important thing? You hurt a carrot less when you kill it,
so it's OK to kill one? What a lame rationale. You're a
joke, Rich.
Wicakpi
Rich wrote in message <3716c8ff...@news.cwo.com>...
>On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:34:38 GMT, de...@postmark.net wrote:
>
>>*shock* *horror* How could you John???? hehehe
>> Did ya tell her they taste good too? Makes ya kinda
wonder what her
>>ancestors ran around dressed in.. ya know?
>>Wonder if she had a leather purse and shoes? Wonder if she
drives a
>>car using fossil fuels? Wonder if she had wooden things in
her house
>>and veggies in her salad drawer, or reads the paper, or
doesn't the
>>life in a plant count as much as the life in a rabbit or
bull?
>>Even a head of lettuce dies when you cut it up.
>
>Guess y'all never heard of the concept of evolution and
more developed
>nervous systems. That there might be a lot more pain and
suffering
>involved in a whale being sliced up alive than a carrot.
>
ddmc
Rich wrote in message
--snipped stuff--
I don't give one shit
>what you did in the past, what the hell are you doing now?
Go play
>your holy native crap somewhere else
Gee, and this is from the guy who was recently clucking over
the rest of us using this kinda language. You are really
starting to get pissed off now, aren't you Rich? Just
another sign that you are beginning to realize that you're
barking up the wrong tree on this ng. Loser!
Wicakpi
Rick Kerchee
Got a
>few militia buddies who don't care if you eat meat or not, just like a
>little target practice.
>
>Rich
Hahaha!...Well, you're know by the company you keep! Some much for the
peaceful environmentalist..*L*
Kdawn
K
jeanine r pinkney
Rich and folks like him argue taht it's ok to eat veggies cos veggies
aren't "intelligent" but one should not eat meat because "animals have
minds and nervous systems comparable to ours" or somethign like that.
Also there are some people who say it is ok to eat fish or fowl but not
mammals becasue of reasoning like this.
many years ago I read a book "The Secret Life of Plants", written by a
renegade scientist who had, just out of curiosity, hooked up a polygraph
to an ornamental houseplant that had been sitting around nearby. To his
surprise, the polygraph registered that the plant seemed to be aware of
some things. Further experiments showed that plants respond to all sorts
of things that it was thought that only humans and "higher" animals can be
aware of. Later some said that this book was bunk but it sure made an
impression on me. I have found this in my own experience to be true;
plants and all things have a form of awareness, not lower or higher than
human awareness; only different. Trees esepcaily are very intellignet.
Here in New Orleans we enjoy eating crabs and crawfish and creatures like
that. These animals are usually killed and cooked by dumping them live
into boiling water. It bothers me to see them moving and looking around
til the moment they are cast into the boiling water and so I rarely eat
these. But I also cook vegetables by steaming or boiling, and someteims I
eat them raw! I know they scream too but it doesnt' bother me so much
because I don't see them move and I don't see their eyes. At any rate, I
can't help it; I am alive and so I have to eat. I have tried
"breathitarianism" but it didn't work for me for very long. So like many
of us here, I thank what I eat, and I make spirit plates not just for
special meals and ceremonial feasts, but for most every time I eat.
And I know that I am food as well. I am food every time I do or say
sometihng good for anyone else, especially if done expecting nothing in
return. Everyone is food that way though most people may not think about
it like this. And when I die I will give myself completely. It is a right
and just, and an honor to be food, when those who eat give thanks. I know
taht all the other creatures pray all the time, it is only us humans who
need help and reminders to pray. So I know that when the birds or the
worms or the dogs or whatever eats me at my last supper, they will make
fine prayers that put to shame, many of our halfhearded "grace before
meals."
Dee aka "HotDog!"
John P. Mullen
I was discussing whale hunting with an Alaskan native the other
day. She pointed out that virtually nothing grows on the North
Slope and that every bit of non-local food has to come in either
on the annual barge or by air. Naturally, that makes it very
expensive.
A whale can feed a small village for a year. Because there is
only so many fish and other small animals to eat, the alternative
to whale hunting is to bring in outside food at tens of thousands
of dollars. Money which the villagers do not have to spare.
It is a matter of self-sufficiency, even survival, not profit.
John Mullen
Kdawn wrote in message <371841AD...@southernet.net>...
>My feelings exactly Sondra~great post!
>K
>
>son...@jaguarsystems.com wrote:
>
>> In article <3716c9f5...@news.cwo.com>,
>> sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
>> > On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:17:34 -0400, n...@inthe.game
(justanoldman)
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >110% right sister-Sondra.. And we, in turn, are committed
to pay the
>> > >"ultimate price": returning our blood & bones & flesh to
the earth that
>> > >provided all that nutrition.. It was Clause #1 of
humankind's contract for
>> > >survival.
>> > >jaom/énéthekwé
>> > ALL of us pay that price old man, not one can escape from
it. Yet we
>> > do not all demand a blood sacrifice for payment.
>>
son...@jaguarsystems.com
"John P. Mullen" <jomu...@nmsu.edu> wrote:
> Very good points Sondra!
>
> I was discussing whale hunting with an Alaskan native the other
> day. She pointed out that virtually nothing grows on the North
> Slope and that every bit of non-local food has to come in either
> on the annual barge or by air. Naturally, that makes it very
> expensive.
>
> A whale can feed a small village for a year. Because there is
> only so many fish and other small animals to eat, the alternative
> to whale hunting is to bring in outside food at tens of thousands
> of dollars. Money which the villagers do not have to spare.
>
> It is a matter of self-sufficiency, even survival, not profit.
So many of those who are passing judgement have never faced true survival
situations. They have no idea what it is like to go to bed hungry, or,
worse, to watch one's kids go to bed hungry. They also place the same
judgement on a village killing a single whale as they do on a whaling firm
killing a hundred. They lack perspective. I think some sort of logical
argument could be advanced for the elimination of large scale commercial
whaling. That same argument would not necessarily apply to those who whale
for food.
Rich
Yes, Lisa, and you have yet to respond to any of my questons to you on
what efforts you are making, or indeed to provide clarification on
whar you mean sometimes.
Rich
**************************************************************************
Rich
>Ooooo, getting a wee bit testy there, Rich? Resorting to
>insults? Guess that's all you got left since, you ain't
>getting anywhere with your other halfassed garbages, enit?
>Hey, better hurry it up, Leolee's still waiting for you on
>that slow boat to China!
>Wicakpi
Oh, I got lots left. But I do get testy sometimes, quite true. But
it's OK, just part of the process.
Rich
>So then, you are saying that the DEGREE of pain is the
>important thing? You hurt a carrot less when you kill it,
>so it's OK to kill one? What a lame rationale. You're a
>joke, Rich.
>Wicakpi
Makes a lot more scientific sense that some "traditional spiritual"
concept that the whale "gives" itself to you and that all animals and
vegies "feel" exactly the same thing when they are eaten. So, yes,
degree is absolutely important. Even Hundu spirituallity uses that as
an understanding of vegetarianism, so it isn't just scientific in
basis. A being with a more developed CNS "will" feel more pain
absolutely...so I think you are the ignorant joke ddmc
Rich
<drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Ya got militia buddies, Rich? I don't *think* so.
I don't think you think period.
> Sit around in a little
>circle and talk about how good tofu is, and saving Buddy the Whale? Save a
>whale - snuff a Makah? That sorta thing? Christian values? Aryan heritage
>stuff?
Naw, talk about AR15s, AK47, S&W 3rd generation 9mm, that sort of
stuff...Bill Ciinton and friends.
> See, I haven't actually pointed a firearm at a human being since I
>took up the drum, kinda contradictory, so I'm told. But you're mighty
>tempting, Rich.
Well, a drum isn't going to do much at 20 yards, but go ahead.
>
>But it's gotta be North Fork, Rich. They got some badass Monos there. Your
>imaginary buddies oughta meet the Stankiewiczs, Rich, they're not too
>traditional. There are actually still quite a few Stankiewiczs not in prison.
>I think we could help make your militia buddies' weekend pretty interesting.
>Just give me enough time, I'd have to give the drum away before the weekend.
For somebody out of that scene, you sure do like the bar buddies,
dontcha?
----------------snip primative blood stuff--------------------------
>Ooooh, I forgot. When ya bring up your "truck", be sure and show me the
>cupholders.
Sorry bud, my truck is too old for cupholders, airbags, and all that
other crap. Hell, you want to see that stuff, come look at my riding
mower..that has more crap on it than my truck!
>
>then in the fall, we can go out and eat Bambi.
Well, I can always hope for a nice dose of plague or Tularemia.
Rich
wrote:
>In article <3716e26...@news.cwo.com>, sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> Got a
>>few militia buddies who don't care if you eat meat or not, just like a
>>little target practice.
>>
>>Rich
>
>
> Hahaha!...Well, you're know by the company you keep! Some much for the
>peaceful environmentalist..*L*
Oh, I never said I was "peaceful".
Rich
Well, I've been here long enough I figured I should just get down to
your level.
reds...@wolfenet.com
and tell everyone you are right and they are living wrong, and should give up
thousands of years of their history because you claim your values are better.
Look at what your races has done to this country to begin with. Its a white
man's mentality like it was when Columbus came. Be thankful you are living
here and your people weren't annihilated when they first got here by the
tribes.
ddmc
Rich wrote in message <371a40ac...@news.cwo.com>...
>On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:14:23 -0700, "ddmc" <dd...@pond.net>
wrote:
>
>>
>>Rich wrote in message
>>--snipped stuff--
>>I don't give one shit
>>>what you did in the past, what the hell are you doing
now?
>>Go play
>>>your holy native crap somewhere else
>>--snipped stuff--
>>
>>Gee, and this is from the guy who was recently clucking
over
>>the rest of us using this kinda language. You are really
>>starting to get pissed off now, aren't you Rich? Just
>>another sign that you are beginning to realize that you're
>>barking up the wrong tree on this ng. Loser!
>>Wicakpi
>Well, I've been here long enough I figured I should just
get down to
>your level.
>
>Rich
>
You stooped way lower than that the first time you ever
posted on here. Rich, you're just a fart in a hot griddle,
though, not a real threat. Just a small, temporary, smelly
irritation that'll soon fade from our memories.
Wicakpi
ddmc
shoes either. To kill, whether it's a carrot or a whale,
is still killing. Any time any creature (even you) eats,
*something* must die.
For you to insist upon having the sole right to judge what
*must live* and what *must die*, is absurd. Who appointed
YOU God anyway Richturd?
Wicakpi
Rich wrote in message <371a3d6f...@news.cwo.com>...
>On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:10:45 -0700, "ddmc" <dd...@pond.net>
wrote:
>
>>So then, you are saying that the DEGREE of pain is the
>>important thing? You hurt a carrot less when you kill it,
>>so it's OK to kill one? What a lame rationale. You're a
>>joke, Rich.
>>Wicakpi
>Makes a lot more scientific sense that some "traditional
spiritual"
>concept that the whale "gives" itself to you and that all
animals and
>vegies "feel" exactly the same thing when they are eaten.
So, yes,
>degree is absolutely important. Even Hundu spirituallity
uses that as
>an understanding of vegetarianism, so it isn't just
scientific in
>basis. A being with a more developed CNS "will" feel more
pain
>absolutely...so I think you are the ignorant joke ddmc
>
>Rich
>
>
>
>***********************************************************
***************
Kaleralee
In article <EybR2.19055$Jc7.8...@news2.giganews.com>, coma...@texas.net
wrote:
>The way I see it, if Creator or Evolution or whatever had intended for humans
>to be strictly vegetarians, we would have teeth like a cow instead of a dog.
>There is a reason they call them canine teeth. Our teeth are made for the
>ripping and cutting of meat. If we were supposed to be vegetarians we would
>have teeth like cows. The last time I looked at my family, there's not a
>bovine in the bunch. Now I'm gonna go have a nice juicy steak.
>
>
>Rick
We don't have teeth like a dog. We don't have teeth like a cow. We have teeth
more akin to a rat than either of the above, but distinctly different even so;
we have teeth like human beings. We're not carnivorous; we're not herbivorous.
We're omnivorous, and we're meant to be able to subsist on whatever we can get,
and that includes but is not restricted to meat.
If you look at human beings, we're healthiest when we eat a whole bunch of
different kinds of food; our natural diet. I don't like to eat much red meat,
but I think that people like that anti-whaling guy (and heck, I'm against
*commercial* whaling!) are just nuts when they try to make it sound like it's
somehow wrong and anti-nature to kill animals for food.
-Kalera
Kaleralee
In article <37154778...@news.cwo.com>, sea_...@orland.net wrote:
>Care to stand in the slaugherhouse a while before dinner? Nothing like
>the sound of terrified animals being slaughtered to build up a big
>hunger.
>Rich
I believe that everyone should have to learn to kill what they eat. I honestly
do. Slaughterhouses are cruel and so is the way America raises 90% of it's food
animals, but I've killed and butchered animals for meat.
It's hard, but at least it gives you an appreciation for what you're eating.
Don't try to fool yourself; vegetarianism is not no-impact. You are still
making an impact on our Earth. Advocate kindness, and I'm with you; try to
force your dietary preferences on everyone, and I'm against you.
If you really want to promote humane treatment of animals, why don't you pick
an area where so many more animals are suffering? Promote free-range chicken,
promote spaying and neutering of all pets!
Or maybe chickens aren't romantic enough for you? Maybe hundreds of thousands
of laying hens deserve to suffer, while a fistful of whales must be spared at
all costs?
Why don't you try to make a real difference, instead of standing on your
highly-visible soapbox.
-Kalera
Kaleralee
In article <7f3r64$loh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, son...@jaguarsystems.com wrote:
>The only question I want answered here is: did the islanders eat the whale
>meat? If so, then I don't think they did anything wrong.
>
>Cutting up freshly killed meat is a bloody gory process. I come from a family
>of hunters, and I managed to survive to adulthood because of that, instead of
>literally dying of malnutrition halfway through childhood. This world is
>constructed in such a way that ALL life, even plant life, survives by feeding
>on other life. That's just the way things are.
>
>sondra
I agree so much. A lot of people, especially European people, think of plants
as being somehow "less alive" and maybe as being a lower form of life than
animals; it's akin to the way they used to practice dentistry and even surgery
on children without anasthetic because "their nervous systems aren't developed
yet".
This was as recently as my mother's childhood, which wasn't long ago.
Plants are part of life, too, and plants are alive. The fact that they are so
much more different from us doesn't mean we are kinder to eat them than we are
to eat cattle, or whales, or dogs, or chickens. There is evidence that plants
feel pain, and that they not only react to perceived emotions but to *words*.
There is evidence that plants may learn to understand spoken language, if they
are exposed to it frequently.
What does this do to the vegetarian's moral high horse?
There is a certain morality in vegetarianism. I can respect the person who says
"I will not support America's meat industry. I will not support cruelty in the
raising and harvesting of animals without respect for them."
I cannot respect the position that meat is murder, because life is murder. I
live; something dies to sustain me. If I live right, things die in balance. We
live in a world that is dangerously out of balance, but attacking those people
who attempt, through traditional hunting, to live in balance, is not productive
or positive.
-Kalera
Kaleralee
-Kalera
Kaleralee
>No, I don't eat fish. The whales are lots higher up on the
>intellegence chain, a lot higher up than many around here certainly.
>
>Rich
Are you saying that the life of an intelligent person is more precious than the
life of a slow-witted person?
Are you saying that the life of an ordinary teenager is worth more than the
life of one with Down's Syndrome?
Does one who murders an aged person with Alzheimers deserve conviction less
than one who murders a healthy college student?
Why do you think it is less acceptable to kill a whale for food than a steer? A
chicken? Meat from one whale serves more than meat from a thousand chickens...
a thousand lives preserved by the sacrifice of one.
Bears are intelligent. Whales are intelligent. Wild turkeys are intelligent.
Horses are intelligent. Trees are intelligent. Dandelions are intelligent. How
do you measure the worth of one life? What yardstick do you use? An IQ scale?
Wild animals know it's unacceptable to eat their own kind. They do so only
under the direst of conditions, unless they go mad.
Humans follow the same rule. Whales may be as intelligent than us, or more
intelligent, but they are not our kind. We may hunt them, though not to
extinction. Other animals may be as intelligent as us, or more intelligent, and
we hunt them too. Problems come when we raise animals for meat and "harvest"
them without respect, and that's where the real sickness lies in our society.
If you want a problem to solve, look at your own people.
-Kalera
Kaleralee
>Guess y'all never heard of the concept of evolution and more developed
>nervous systems. That there might be a lot more pain and suffering
>involved in a whale being sliced up alive than a carrot.
>
>Rich
I thought the article said they killed the whale, THEN stated that they
stripped themeat from it. Or did you change your mind about the order of
events?
-Kalera
Wahampi
Rich
>If you really want to promote humane treatment of animals, why don't you pick
>an area where so many more animals are suffering? Promote free-range chicken,
>promote spaying and neutering of all pets!
I do on both counts, through support and and volunteer work with both
Animal Sanctuary and ASPCA.
>
>Or maybe chickens aren't romantic enough for you? Maybe hundreds of thousands
>of laying hens deserve to suffer, while a fistful of whales must be spared at
>all costs?
Not at all. I do both. You make the mistake of assuming that I am
only "picking on you guys" and not doing other work.
>
>Why don't you try to make a real difference, instead of standing on your
>highly-visible soapbox.
I do. You just don't like the attention on the whaling issue.
>
>-Kalera
**************************************************************************
Rich
>You stooped way lower than that the first time you ever
>posted on here. Rich, you're just a fart in a hot griddle,
>though, not a real threat. Just a small, temporary, smelly
>irritation that'll soon fade from our memories.
>Wicakpi
Only when the notion of whaling fades from memory.
Rich
Rich
The method of killing the whale is slow and inhumane. You may as well
slice it up alive for the amount of damage inflicted upon it and the
length of time it takes to die.
Rich
>I am neither a Hindu nor a vegetarian, and I don't wear hemp
>shoes either. To kill, whether it's a carrot or a whale,
>is still killing. Any time any creature (even you) eats,
>*something* must die.
Wel OK then Wackopie, so why, if you have a rabbit, do you not handle
it as though it were a carrot. Bring it alive to your kitchen, cut
off its legs and let it flop around on the counter for a while then
skin the rest later. The carrot is still alive when you peel it. You
really think there is no difference?
Jason Spaulding
have raised so much hell about the Makah using an elephant rifle for coup
de grace humane purposes that you'd probably go ballistic if they used an
explosive harpoon.
Stay tuned, gentle NG readers, I am working on a long post on life, death, and
how this egocentric eccentric Rich is trying to twist good ideas to suit his
self-invented Requiem for Buddy the Whale.
In article <371de0b0...@news.cwo.com>,
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> On 21 Apr 1999 05:19:32 GMT, kale...@aol.com (Kaleralee) wrote:
>
> >
> >In article <3716c8ff...@news.cwo.com>, sea_...@orland.net wrote:
> >
> >>Guess y'all never heard of the concept of evolution and more developed
> >>nervous systems. That there might be a lot more pain and suffering
> >>involved in a whale being sliced up alive than a carrot.
> >>
> >>Rich
> >
> >I thought the article said they killed the whale, THEN stated that they
> >stripped themeat from it. Or did you change your mind about the order of
> >events?
> >
> >-Kalera
> The method of killing the whale is slow and inhumane. You may as well
> slice it up alive for the amount of damage inflicted upon it and the
> length of time it takes to die.
>
> Rich
>
> **************************************************************************
> Protect our future - Sign the online petition for mandatory
> labeling of genetically engineered foods -
> http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html
> ***************************************************************************
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Jason Spaulding
Lama?
Don't I remember your replying that "other people" were working on saving the
Mexican calving grounds from the biggest threat to the California gray whale?
No thanks to you, but the US Fish and Wildlife Svc yesterday listed Sierra
Nevada bighorn sheep as threatened so a full-tilt recovery plan can be
implemented, previously prevented by the cute fuzzy critter folks because it
may involve killing some mountain lions until the sheep get above critical
population. Thanks to the Natural Resources Defense Council, no thanks to Rich
and the Cleveland Amory twits.
In article <371ddb9...@news.cwo.com>,
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> On 21 Apr 1999 05:19:06 GMT, kale...@aol.com (Kaleralee) wrote:
>
> >If you really want to promote humane treatment of animals, why don't you
pick
> >an area where so many more animals are suffering? Promote free-range
chicken,
> >promote spaying and neutering of all pets!
> I do on both counts, through support and and volunteer work with both
> Animal Sanctuary and ASPCA.
>
> >
> >Or maybe chickens aren't romantic enough for you? Maybe hundreds of
thousands
> >of laying hens deserve to suffer, while a fistful of whales must be spared
at
> >all costs?
> Not at all. I do both. You make the mistake of assuming that I am
> only "picking on you guys" and not doing other work.
> >
> >Why don't you try to make a real difference, instead of standing on your
> >highly-visible soapbox.
> I do. You just don't like the attention on the whaling issue.
>
> >
> >-Kalera
>
Rick Kerchee
Rick
In article <19990421011904...@ngol07.aol.com>, kale...@aol.com
Rich
<drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Stay tuned, gentle NG readers, I am working on a long post on life, death, and
>how this egocentric eccentric Rich is trying to twist good ideas to suit his
>self-invented Requiem for Buddy the Whale.
Cool. Don't make it too long though. We are in the last few weeks of
Deep Space 9 and I'm kinda busy in the star trek newsgroups and
watching old episodes.
Rich
Rich
<drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Oh, yeah, Rich, another unprovable claim like your blessing from the Dalai
>Lama?
What in heaven's name does that have to do with free range chickens
and spaying pets?
>Don't I remember your replying that "other people" were working on saving the
>Mexican calving grounds from the biggest threat to the California gray whale?
The SSCS is activly working in this area, as are other groups. In
addition to exposing the corruption via SSCS web site and journal,
their call for declaration of San Ignacio Lagoon to be made into a
World Heritage site resulted in 30,000 petitions, letters, and e-mails
to UNESCO and resulted in the World Heritage committee agreeing to
conduct an on-site study. This is the second step in designating the
site "In Danger" which will make it much more difficult for the
Mexican government to simply rubber stamp an Environmental Impact
Statement. The UNESCO WHC president said this was the largest show of
concern WHC had ever seen on any issue.
Jason Spaulding
What have *you* done?
Such as researching the tangled economic and political webs of Mexico or doing
any actual work. Other than firing your half-baked half-ass ideas on this NG.
Or proving that the Dalai Lama blessed St. Paul's assault on the Makah, as
pper your earlier claim. "I don't have time for that" doesn't cut it when you
have time for Star Trek, Rich.
cya
In article <371e7a06...@news.cwo.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
ddmc
Rich wrote in message <371de002...@news.cwo.com>...
>On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:18:11 -0700, "ddmc" <dd...@pond.net>
wrote:
>
>>I am neither a Hindu nor a vegetarian, and I don't wear
hemp
>>shoes either. To kill, whether it's a carrot or a whale,
>>is still killing. Any time any creature (even you) eats,
>>*something* must die.
>Wel OK then Wackopie, so why, if you have a rabbit, do you
not handle
>it as though it were a carrot. Bring it alive to your
kitchen, cut
>off its legs and let it flop around on the counter for a
while then
>skin the rest later. The carrot is still alive when you
peel it. You
>really think there is no difference?
>
>Rich
>
It's not the DIFFERENCES that are important, (who said
anything about THAT?) but the similarities. They are both
alive, they both feel pain, they are both food, and they
both die when eaten. Who are you to decide which should be
eaten, and which not?
Wicakpi
Sparrow 13
> We are in the last few weeks of
>Deep Space 9 and I'm kinda busy in the star trek newsgroups and
>watching old episodes.
>
>Rich
>
--
"if you call it, surprise! there it is"
(roky erickson)
Sparrow 13,
the Extremely Delux One
to send mail, dig out the bullet
Rich
<spr...@NOSPAMsirius.com> wrote:
> So, the bossy bleedin'heart is a trekkie. Mighta known.
Proud of it. Got to keep the priorites straight.
Rich
<drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Again you evade the question:
>What have *you* done?
>Such as researching the tangled economic and political webs of Mexico or doing
>any actual work. Other than firing your half-baked half-ass ideas on this NG.
Made some donations, wrote some letters, volunteered some time. I
don't need to give accounting to you.
>
>Or proving that the Dalai Lama blessed St. Paul's assault on the Makah, as
>pper your earlier claim. "I don't have time for that" doesn't cut it when you
>have time for Star Trek, Rich.
Oh, we always have time for Star Trek around here. Sometimes my wife
and I put off dinner until it's over, or make sure we are finished
before. Got to find out what is with Sisko and the Prophets over the
next few weeks. So your Dalai Lama hunt will just have to be on your
own time....priorities you know! BTW, the quote was commending Paul
and SSCS for their work in general and not on the Makah in particular,
as you well know if you read it.
Jason Spaulding
documentary about Paul Watson. Beam me up, Scottie, there's no intelligent
life in Orland, especially this soon-to-be recipient of the Vulcan death
grip. ooooo, don't squeeze the whales.
In article <371fed9...@news.cwo.com>,
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:26:03 -0700, "Sparrow 13"
> <spr...@NOSPAMsirius.com> wrote:
>
> > So, the bossy bleedin'heart is a trekkie. Mighta known.
> Proud of it. Got to keep the priorites straight.
>
> Rich
>
> **************************************************************************
> Protect our future - Sign the online petition for mandatory
> labeling of genetically engineered foods -
> http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html
> ***************************************************************************
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Rich
<drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Yeah, Rich but you're the only one here who thinks Star Trek 5 was a
>documentary about Paul Watson.
I would suppose you are thinking of Star Trek IV, Voyage Home, with
the whales. ST V, The Final Frontier, is about a renegade Vulcan
hijacking the Enterprise. Please try to be more factual, this sort of
thing strains your credability.
> Beam me up, Scottie, there's no intelligent
>life in Orland, especially this soon-to-be recipient of the Vulcan death
>grip.
Sorry also, but there is no Vulcan death grip. There is the Vulcan
nerve pinch and the Vulcan mind meld. The "death grip" was a ploy
used in a ST TOS episode...escapes me which one right now.
> ooooo, don't squeeze the whales.
Think that is Charmen toilet paper. ope you don't confuse the two very
often.
RIch
Rich
<drumc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Yeah, Rich but you're the only one here who thinks Star Trek 5 was a
>documentary about Paul Watson.
BTW, Jason, thanks for bringing this up. My wife and I just finished
watching ST IV since you reminded me of it (of course we have all the
movies and almost all the episodes here at home). Wow, this will make
me redouble my efforts to protect the whales from slaughter by anyone.
Think I may just have to break out my checkbook for another round to
all the organizations carring on the good fight (SSCS, Breach, etc.)
Thanks for the reminder of just how important this is.
Rich
Kaleralee
>I do. You just don't like the attention on the whaling issue.
What makes you think that?
-Kalera
Kaleralee
>>I thought the article said they killed the whale, THEN stated that they
>>stripped themeat from it. Or did you change your mind about the order of
>>events?
>>
>>-Kalera
>The method of killing the whale is slow and inhumane. You may as well
>slice it up alive for the amount of damage inflicted upon it and the
>length of time it takes to die.
>
>Rich
Perhaps, but "may as well" and "did" are not the same thing, and lying in your
posts does not increase your credibility.
-Kalera