WK73 FBI FTX?
Monica
tactics of the American Indian Movement (AIM) with the tactics of
today's terrorists:
"When compared to the international enemy we face today, the American
Indian Movement obviously presented much less of a threat to the
nation at large. Nonetheless, the "war" against AIM has parallels to
today's war against terror. AIM militants were the terrorists of their
time, employing many of the same tactics used by modern-day terrorist
groups.
With the same viciousness that Middle-Eastern henchmen lop off the
heads of innocent people, AIM hitmen dispatched their victims, in both
cases recruiting young members to do their dirty work. AIM enjoyed the
support and understanding of many who turned a blind eye to the
cowardice of indiscriminate attacks, although on a much smaller scale,
but with the same rationalization as "aggrieved minorities." AIM could
not have existed without funding and support from certain quarters of
the government. In some cases, that support came from the same
government entities tasked with defeating it. In supporting Al-Qaeda
and Hizbollah, world governments and at times, it seems, the United
Nations (with U.S. dollars), have unfortunately served the same
purpose. Yesterday's well-intended government aid to AIM is like
today's foreign aid and world-body assistance programs---we're not
really sure where the money is going until it's too late...
The occupation of Wounded Knee can be seen as a microcosm of today's
terrorist controversies. Amid complaints of a disproportionate use of
force" and the view of oppressors as victims, the true victims are
often consigned to anonymity by a blissfully unaware press. Meanwhile,
instigators benefit from media-driven calls for understanding, and
government bodies seek appeasement through calls for restraint and
negotiation" (p. 508-9).
Paul Wolf
through the whole book. I had hoped the author would be able to
expand on what is known about the events of Wounded Knee, the
shootings of agents Coler and Williams, and the Arlo Looking Cloud
affair. In the first 100 pages, there just wasn't anything new.
Every word of the book is dripping with the anger of an old man who
believes his career was ruined by left wing radicals and the left wing
press. He sets out to set the record straight, but other than his
hatred for the leaders of AIM, he doesn't have a lot to say.
He gives a rehash of the Looking Cloud trial, and the congressional
investigation into AIM in the early 70s, and has done some
investigation into the sources of funding of AIM. However, that's not
much considering this guy was in charge of FBI operations in SD at the
time. I had expected more in the way of insider information, and
references to FBI reports from the era. After 100 pages I've given up
looking for it.
The Looking Cloud trial seems to be a particularly important event for
Mr. Trimbach, that proves his thesis that AIM was an organization of
criminals and murderers. However, it was only a three day trial and
the defendant had a public defender who called only one witness, an
FBI agent. I thought Trimbach was out of place in ridiculing the
public defender - it wasn't his choice to represent Looking Cloud. It
was a case assigned to him and he was just doing his job. He recites
line by line what was said at the moment of the Aquash murder - this
must have been lifted from the confession video Looking Cloud made at
a police station, drunk out of his mind. From the way Trimbach writes
about it, you'd think he was there witnessing the murder.
The fact that the book is less than scholarly is illustrated by the
fact that Mr Two Elk was chosen to write the introduction.
Working as a police informant while pretending to still be Looking
Cloud's friend, Two Elk became his drug dealer, somehow got Looking
Cloud to work with the investigators who convinced him they were
investigating someone else, and did everything a police informant
normally does. I know this is part of the game - most important
federal prosecutions rely on these kinds of individuals - but it's not
often that they are called upon to write the introduction of a book.
I also found it odd that the author consistently refers to Ms. Aquash
as "Anna Mae" as if he were personal friends with her. From all
accounts, Ms Aquash lived in fear of the FBI, and was even
interrogated by them about a murder that occurred on the reservation.
If she were alive I doubt she'd be impressed by Mr Trimbach's feigned
familiarity. It seems to be a device he uses to show the reader he is
on Aquash's side, even though at the time all this occurred, he most
certainly wasn't. Unless we are to believe that "Anna Mae" was the
one good Indian in AIM.
Mr Trimbach also appears very confident of the guilt of Bruce Ellison,
the Bellecourts, and so on, in the Aquash murder. He's calling for
blood. That fact that the Aquash murder was one of at least 50 that
occurred on the FBI's watch over the reservation doesn't seem to
bother him. He focuses on this crime because it was apparently
committed by people he hates.
The Aquash murder, assuming it happened as the police believe, was a
terrible crime and a tragedy. However, it's worth asking why these
people considered it a matter of life and death to have FBI informants
in their organization. According to Trimbach they were crazy
terrorists and that's all there is too it. The FBI was hated and
feared on the Pine Ridge reservation - Trimbach blames AIM for
poisoning the minds of the people living there. All this happened on
his watch as Special Agent in Charge, and it was a dismal failure.
Trimbach feels he has been unfairly blamed - but from the vengeful and
at times racist thoughts he expresses in his book, I'm more inclined
to blame him now than I was before.
Paul Wolf
Flint_...@hotmail.com
> I read the first 100 pages or so,
YeyHooo!
Mad Moo got herself a Neu Monkey...
N Diz 1 can READ...least fer a hunnerd pages
anywayz...BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Police Informant?
U mista Wolf, IF'n dat even B yer Real name, gotz a SillyAss case o
Mistaken Identity...
BUTT...given U kain draw allah wha U said frum a hunnerd pages, N dat
U got me Konfuzed wit yer Crminal Ilk...
clearly demonstrate yer agenda...
So...Good Luck Wit Dat...
hee hee
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
waaaaiiiiit a Minute...(hee hee)...
could "paul" B a nudder o a loooonnnng list o Aliases used by a
certain wasicu, gone native...?
could dat B...frankey D Looka?...Mad Moo'z undercover buddee?
or mayB jezt a nudder case o Mistaken identity...
Monica
This book made a big fool of you. Your head is so far up the fbi butt
you don't even know. Like I said, I was embarrassed for you. You
cannot tell the truth. Paul hit everything right on the head. This
book has awakened people. But not in the way you wanted.
Flint_...@hotmail.com
Dang Mad Moo...
Yer Neu Monkey is a Real Piece o SHIT eh?
Jezt Like U...
hee hee
Wayne George
wayne :) george *Band Member Doing Business Abroad*
===========
<Flint_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:06308425-dec7-4b73...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Wayne George
wayne :) george
===========
<Flint_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b9caa138-8091-40db...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Flint_...@hotmail.com
> YAH...!! SIT DOWN..FART BREATH...!!!!
>
>
U SO brillyant...Real WizDumb NDN Shit eh?
U Go Half N Half...
U GO!
Flint_...@hotmail.com
> SIT DOWN...DRUGIE..!!!!
>
> wayne :) george
Oh C'mon wayne george...U cain't do betta den dat adolescent
BULLSHIT?!
"YAH...!! SIT DOWN..FART BREATH...!!!! "
give it up...
Flint_...@hotmail.com
Hey Mad Moo...
wher da Fuck yer neu Monkey?!
me tot he wanna play N shit...
CHICKENSHIT Paul Wolf!
Wayne George
wayne :) george
===========
<Flint_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c27fdab-91bf-41e3...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
O'Brien
How do you know 2-elk was Arlo's drug connection? Is that through Abe
Alonzo of the Denver PD, whom Arlo himself said was buying him the
chiba and booze at the Colfax Ave. liquor store? and he tricked Arlo
into thinking the cops were investigating someone else, and THAT's why
he "confessed"?
D
> > negotiation" (p. 508-9).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
O'Brien
My favorite rave review of the "book" is from Bill Janklow, a
convicted murderer!
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
A question I have is when did Arlo become addicted to heroin? Who was
the person who introduced him to it? Was it just another druggie
friend? Or was it Two Elves or Abe Alonzo? My guess is that it was
through Alonzo. They hooked him and kept him on line until they needed
him. I don't like the Carter Camp I remember from WK, but what he said
in his statement is good. It looks to me like each time they picked up
Arlo they questioned Arlo about the Anna Mae case. Tehy were actually
feeding him the story they wanted told. They were programming him.
The pigs have stolen Arlo's documents for his defense. Now he has
nothing. Are they getting ready to kill him?
nrunni...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have to wonder why anyone would give two shits and a fart about what
fink carrion posts?
When the FBI lost Donna, they took up with fink carrion.
I really have to wonder why anyone of trie identity would even bother
replying to this fraud?
And as far as his spewing in an FBI written book goes, who the hell
cares?
Whoever eats into that dinner isn't worth dining with.
H's a fraud, folks, why give him any more than a passing glance, let
alone all this attention?
He lies, folks, he don't know shit from shinola.
He's a fraud, a FBI shill.
Delete him, consign him to the trash that he is.
Good gawds, I drop in to see what is going on, and here is fink
carrion, still wasting good band space.
No better than Barry Bowser.
At least, we recognized he was quite mad.
And so is fink carrion Jefferies, in his own squalid way.
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Because I care about what happens to Arlo and John. I care about real
justice for Anna Mae. It's also my history they are rewriting. You're
right about two elves. He is scum. So is Demain.
Who is Donna? You lost me there.
oldwifetale
I don't mean to interupt, Monica, but let me just jump in here real
quick and say it's not *me* (in case anyone else is confused by that).
It is 'another' woman named Donna - she also used to post here several
years back, lots of very crazed, angry stuff. From what i understand
she was in with the fbi, but i don't know the whole story - she was
here when i was on the road too, so i didn't even catch it all (what
she was ranting and raving about).
Monica
I remember when you first started posting people thought you were her.
Is she the one that used to call herself a badge bunny or some crazy
thing. I posted during Makah Whaling under another name.
oldwifetale
That's the one, or close enough. :) Yep, i've received a few emails
over the years, now and then, from people thinking i might be her.
That's the only reason i popped in here on the thread - usually i just
read. I've been posting since '98, but had to take time away a few
times, so i missed a few things regarding this woman. That particular
'Donna' verbally attacked me once herself because of the 'coincidence'
of our names being the same. She regularly attacked Jim (JBT) and
Wolfie. TQ too, if i recall. Her last posting address was in my email
address book for awhile from an email she sent me once (making wierd
accusations, i didn't even know what she was talking about), so a
google search might show her up under: tearagrianan (? - i think that
is the right spelling) - although i am not sure how or if she was
involved in what you are researching - someone else may know more on
that.
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
dat B Soooo Phunnee...i cain C ya now...
still got dem ol white Jane Fonda Boots?
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
yepper...U 1 o dem hangerz on from da daze when altDOTnative waz a
real land o Make Believe...
back when Raw Raw Lenny P waz da word o da day, eh?
well...datz ALL Gone now...
so, go back to yer trailer N Go Back To SLEEP...
THUNK!
Wayne George
times..
Seems to me that some women do like to have hard words with 'men' they don't
understand.. ;-)
I recall some here who ...well..that's gossip nd I like to stay at arms
length...
Hope all is well with you n yourn..
wayne :) george *Band Member Doing Business Abroad*
===========
"oldwifetale" <oldwi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0a73230d-5ece-4683...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
oldwifetale
> Hey Donna, I remember that 'Donna" also...she had some hard words with me at
> times..
> Seems to me that some women do like to have hard words with 'men' they don't
> understand.. ;-)
> I recall some here who ...well..that's gossip nd I like to stay at arms
> length...
> Hope all is well with you n yourn..
>
> wayne :) george
They are doing okay for the most part, my family is having some
difficult times right now, but we are sticking together. I still get
'hate mail' every so often from people i don't know, thinking i am
that other 'Donna', so i wanted to make it clear real fast, i'm not
her. There's something just a little off-setting when you get on the
receiving end of someone's mean-spirited outburst, and you don't know
why. It's just the one connecting thing of a 'name' and next thing you
have mistaken identity. I try not to make enemies whenever possible.
Enemies are not good for your health. So i don't want to inherit
someone 'else's' enemies, for sure. Now as to 'gossip'... i get gossip
a little confused with life... because it is sometimes hard to talk of
things in the past without mentioning who else was there and what they
were doing too. But yeah... sometimes it is better to just put a sock
in it. :)
I hope all is well with you and yours also.
Donna
lo...@inorbit.com
was manipulated by retired fbi guy, was it Ed Wood?, because she
claimed to be Indian, related to every tribal chief and treaty signer
there ever was plus all the royalty in Europe. Her family said she was
100% white and mentally ill. I hope she is getting help for her
illness. The feds should be embarrassed and ashamed to manipulate sick
people like that. But they do, and look what it gets them: False info
to spew on more innocent people.
On Jan 5, 9:23 pm, oldwifetale <oldwifet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I don't mean to interupt, Monica, but let me just jump in here real
> quick and say it's not *me* (in case anyone else is confused by that).
> It is 'another' woman named Donna - she also used to post here several
> years back, lots of very crazed, angry stuff. From what i understand
> she was in ...
>
Wayne George
"Living Things"..
The words "enemy"..is a many faceted word..in that it can be all things to
all people..
I personally think that having a few "enemies" is a good thing...I'd sooner
have them where I can make out who they are,as opposed to behind any kind of
'screen'.
As for gossip..I agree with you..and I suppose that at times 'the sock' must
be withdrawn letting whatever tumble out over the lips.
wayne :) george
===========
"oldwifetale" <oldwi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6612b1a6-0a9d-4cf2...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
OOPS!...dat wernt Jane Fonda...it were Nancy!...
oldwifetale
> Yep..mine and mine are as well as can be ..with regards to the rest of
> "Living Things"..
> The words "enemy"..is a many faceted word..in that it can be all things to
> all people..
> I personally think that having a few "enemies" is a good thing...I'd sooner
> have them where I can make out who they are,as opposed to behind any kind of
> 'screen'.
> As for gossip..I agree with you..and I suppose that at times 'the sock' must
> be withdrawn letting whatever tumble out over the lips.
>
> wayne :) george
> ==========="
Yep, on 'enemies', i have a few views. In both western and eastern
astrology there is a 'house' (area of life) pertaining to 'hidden
enemies'. This area is always considered far more dangerous than
'known' enemies, as it pertains to people who come up from behind, or
who hide behind a false presentation of being a friend or ally. Having
enemies is unavoidable, even if you strive to do no harm to anyone.
There are a kazillion *reasons* why someone can hate you on sight, or
wish disaster on you. Some people have tough skins or good
'protection' - but other people move through life with hardly a
barrier between themselves and others. They get easily hurt. Sometimes
they are so vulnerable it is left to their friends and family members
to 'protect' them from outside harm. We all know such people. Even the
most passive and loving people can have enemies. There is just nothing
you can do about it. But then.... there are those who purposely create
enemies, who are not happy unless there is an opponent to fight or
someone to whom they can do harm. It is not the same as 'defense'; it
is a tearing down of the humanity in someone else in order to build
themselves up. And because of their self-loathing, they have no
empathy or compassion, and no real recognition of the damage they do.
Next to people who are defending their loved ones, people who hate
themselves make the most dangerous enemies. No, i do not like to have
enemies at all. I'm happiest to have peaceful relations with others.
But... there are many ways to disarm (or neutralize) an enemy, so long
as an enemy is not 'hidden'.
Words that tumble from the lips are not harmful when they come from a
good heart. So some people speak openly and often, and i love to catch
their words as they 'spill' (even if it appears like gossip, it is
only commentary), whereas others speak alot and i try to dodge every
word that comes out - since they are pointed and strung out like
barbed wire.
Donna
Paul Wolf
> Paul,
> How do you know 2-elk was Arlo's drug connection? Is that through Abe
> Alonzo of the Denver PD, whom Arlo himself said was buying him the
> chiba and booze at the Colfax Ave. liquor store? and he tricked Arlo
> into thinking the cops were investigating someone else, and THAT's why
> he "confessed"?
>
> D
My mistake. I just checked an interview with Looking Cloud. Officer
Alonzo was his heroin connection, and Two Elks smoked pot with him.
I just re-read the cross examination of Two Elks by Looking Cloud's
public defender, Timothy Rensch. It's online at
http://www.jfamr.org/doc/elktest.html
Rensch is a skilled cross examiner. When a person is making something
up, the way to bring this out is to ask more and more detailed
questions. The witness has to invent more and more details on the
spot, and eventually cannot keep his story straight. Two Elks was
unable to recount his conversations with Looking Cloud, which leads me
to believe they did not occur as he said. This incident was obviously
important to Two Elk - for whatever reason he expended a lot of time
and effort working on it. It's hard to believe he couldn't remember
any of the details of his conversations with Looking Cloud.
One thing that occurs to me, is that if Looking Cloud does not testify
against Graham, who will? Who else has knowledge of what happened?
Any prior statements made by Looking Cloud, such as his video
confession, or statements he made to other people, are hearsay. They
cannot be used against Graham because Graham will not have the
opportunity to cross examine the declarant. They are not co-
conspirator statements because no conspiracy is charged. I think the
other witnesses against Looking Cloud repeated statements he'd
allegedly made, but none of that can be used against Graham because
its hearsay. What's left?
Flint_...@hotmail.com
not what...who?
Frankee D looka...AKA...Frank Black Horse...
ya betta B faster den dat if'n ya wanna play...
Frickin' Monkey...
O'Brien
only a slight acquaintance, smoking pot a few times with him outside
his cousin's house in Denver. It's the whole vulgar street scene where
everyone knows each other sort of. Maybe 2-elks was a pot dealer for
him, somewhat . . . Which MAY be a link with Alonzo, friends in Denver
tell me (my home town, so I know it well) - ya know, drugs . . . He
wanted to know why 2-elks hadn't tape-recorded him, as he'd claimed
he'd taped so many other people over those years in the 80s.
Yes, Rensch really went after 2-elks on the stand. He showed very well
the foolishness of the guy, even making the jury laugh at him. The
transcript is accurate. It was a real clown act for some comic relief
in the middle of the Circus.
Later, in the toilet as a matter of fact during a recess, he just
happened to come in the stall next to me, and I congratulated him. We
knew each other as he was the local Boy Scout Commander (no kidding,
he wears the uniform and everything at Pack meetings), my son was a
Cub Scout for awhile, and he laughed and said something like "Yeah,
the guy is obviously lying." But he got silent when I asked why he
hadn't subpoenaed Thelma Rios, whom I also knew well and interviewed,
as one of the last people who claimed to have seen Anna Mae alive in
Rapid City. She was still living here then, her home under seige
basically as her son Tony {whose father is ... David Hill} was the
local meth dealer in Lakota Homes. He ignored me and left the can.
Needless to say he didn't subpoena Thelma or anyone else locally. We
were both little league coaches and I saw him often, but he never
spoke cordially to me again.
Local scuttlebutt has it that the Feds are planning to trot out John
Trudell and others who claim to have seen Graham and Arlo with Anna
Mae in Rapid City, to testify against Graham. Candy Hamilton - whom
Steve Robideau thought was an informant; and others who were trotted
out against Arlo. They're sticking with their old game plan. Arlo's PD
is not doing much. Surprise.
oldwifetale
> On Jan 4, 11:10 pm, "O'Brien" <sealsor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Paul,
> > How do you know 2-elk was Arlo's drug connection? Is that through Abe
> > Alonzo of the Denver PD, whom Arlo himself said was buying him the
> > chiba and booze at the Colfax Ave. liquor store? and he tricked Arlo
> > into thinking the cops were investigating someone else, and THAT's why
> > he "confessed"?
>
> > D
>
> My mistake. I just checked an interview with Looking Cloud. Officer
> Alonzo was his heroin connection, and Two Elks smoked pot with him.
>
> I just re-read the cross examination of Two Elks by Looking Cloud's
> public defender, Timothy Rensch. It's online at
>
> http://www.jfamr.org/doc/elktest.html
>
> Rensch is a skilled cross examiner. When a person is making something
> up, the way to bring this out is to ask more and more detailed
> questions. The witness has to invent more and more details on the
> spot, and eventually cannot keep his story straight. Two Elks was
> unable to recount his conversations with Looking Cloud, which leads me
> to believe they did not occur as he said. This incident was obviously
> important to Two Elk - for whatever reason he expended a lot of time
> and effort working on it. It's hard to believe he couldn't remember
> any of the details of his conversations with Looking Cloud.
Actually, after reading that testimony, i can understand how that
could easily happen. If i think back, say, to an important event and
discussions that occurred around it with a family member, for instance
- someone i know and speak to fairly often - it would be very
difficult to separate the conversations chronologically or to repeat
'verbatim' what was said rather than the overall gist of it. That
would not mean i was 'lying' or fabricating - just that i was more
focused on the heart of the matter - the most important aspects -
rather than remembering it all for a future word-for-word replay.
Also, i can think of times when people have tried to 'trip me up'
resulting in me actually getting tripped up, even though there was no
lie involved - just a confusion about certain 'details', and simply
due to being put so inescapably on the defensive. To the average
outside observer, some of the cross-examiner's questions were
confusing, sometimes like two or three questions rolled into one, but
demanding a single answer. I'm not defending anyone here (the whole
case is so confusing to me with so many stories, i have absolutely NO
idea what is true or not), but i'm just wondering how that
'particular' testimony can be proof of either truth or fabrication?
Donna
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
me gonna step out, even at da risk...
Bless U Donna,...and all da others who struggle every day to
comprehend this part of our history...
i have to say simply...that Prayer IS the Only way...
given over 30 yrs of LIES and stepped up Damage Kontrol by da PERPS...
It's All SMOKE...
which is why i don't play wit da Fools...
I'm here to take shit, since it, as well as da BLOOD, drips offa me...
the lies will B to no avail...
da Time Has Come...
Hetcetualoh!
WOPILA!
oldwifetale
I just have a hard time with so-called 'evidence' of lying when it
doesn't seem like real evidence of lying. A cross-examiner is not
going for the truth, he is going for the sole purpose of discrediting
a witness - even if it's only to make the witness look confused. And
for O'Brien to mention that people laughed or Wolf to indicate that
the testimony was false simply because there isn't an exact
remembrance of every detail or chronological order of conversations...
doesn't seem exactly like an unbiased observation. Like i said, i have
no idea what's true or not - but i sure couldn't make any 'final
conclusions' based on that particular testimony under cross
examination.
Donna
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank You...U affirm my assertion dat...
we ain't jezt a bunch o Dumb NDNz...
given da info...we ARE capable of coming to our own intelligent
conclusions...
( and da "risk" iz...da shit dey may unload on U IF dey tink U
listenin 2 me...)
i stand alone so No One else takes shit fer standin' wit me...
WOPILA!
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
The fbi left one female agent out here to monitor after the first
Makah whale hunt. I've never been able to find your magazine. Are you
that female agent? Is that your interest in this list?
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Shit drips off you because you're a pile of shit. You wouldn't do
anything to save anyone. You're not even pretending anymore. I'll give
you that. You're deep inside the fbi camp. Right where their lap dog
should be.
oldwifetale
> The fbi left one female agent out here to monitor after the first
> Makah whale hunt. I've never been able to find your magazine. Are you
> that female agent? Is that your interest in this list?-
I told you before i'd send you one, and if you didn't want to give
your address, you could go on over to Blue Dolphin and pick one up (or
at several of the real estate or mortgage offices). Within the next
couple weeks they will also be on the rack at the Safeway stores -
finally, we worked hard for that - where you can pick one up for free
any time you want. Maybe you can take a look at it, and at the list of
our tiny staff, and figure if i have *time* to be an fbi agent. I have
a problem with this particular testimony being proof of anything. That
is just an 'opinion' based on reading it. People can have opinions
without being a worker for the fbi (which i certainly am NOT). If you
weren't taking a 'side' in any of this, but were just reading
objectively, and were reading that cross examiner drilling a native
man about his memory of a 'second' or 'third' conversation, you might
see the same thing. And come to think of it, why would there even be
an fbi agent here anyway? To monitor Waybackjack??? Nothing gets said
here that is very controversial except for your posts and maybe
O'brien's sometimes. Plus anyone could 'monitor' this ng without
bothering to post like i do. I wasn't taking a 'side' - i was saying
what i really felt about that particular piece of testimony. It isn't
evidence, imo. I'm sorry - but how can that alone be seen as evidence
of lying?
Donna
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
and i'z coming 4 U N allah yer CRIMINAL Co-Conspiratorz...
Beep Beep!
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
You, trimbach and price and demain are the conspirators.
Beep! Beep!
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Let me knnow when it comes out so I can get one.
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
You don't think two elves and demains lies aren't controversial? You
seem to want to suppress any discussion of anything controversial. You
want to turn this into a chit chat room. Let's not get the natives
agitated. Let's all be happy. We love that our land was stolen, that
our way of life is suppressed. Let's all be happy that the white man
is killing us.
Beep! Beep!
Wayne George
I'm going to form my own opinions from now ON.!!!!
wayne :) george
===========
"oldwifetale" <oldwi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f8c073b5-7258-4834...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
oldwifetale
It's been out all along, Monica, for over a year.
You can also come to our office in PA and just ask for one.
oldwifetale
>
> You don't think two elves and demains lies aren't controversial?
I concede that 'controversial' might not be the right word. But Demain
has not posted here in a looong time, and aside from the recent
reviews of Trimbach's book, i can't see what would be *new* or
revealing enough to assign an fbi agent to this ng. Then again, i
don't know how they work. Maybe they do have people who monitor ngs
like this. But last i read about, they had 'programs' that catch
'buzzwords' all over the internet.
> You
> seem to want to suppress any discussion of anything controversial.
I don't know why you would say that, Monica. I have never tried to
suppress anything controversial or otherwise. In fact, i have read,
but tried to stay clear of all the serious native issues for the most
part. I've been given to understand that the opinion of a 'white
woman' is not welcome. I've read many 'opinions' regarding the
testimony of Richard Two Elks. This was the first time i read the
actual testimony. Paul Wolf (another 'white person') said that the
cross-examiner's questions led him to believe that Richard Two Elks
was fabricating his story. O'Brien said that Richard Two Elks was such
a 'clown' that the courtroom was laughing. When i read the testimony,
i could not see how either of those 'observations' were derived, or
how he was "obviously lying". I have no stake in proving anyone's
guilt or innocence, so i feel that i was reading objectively. You say
you are only after the truth. If that is so, then why are you so angry
about me asking how this testimony proved that Two Elks was either
lying or telling the truth? It was a sincere question.
> You
> want to turn this into a chit chat room. Let's not get the natives
> agitated. Let's all be happy. We love that our land was stolen, that
> our way of life is suppressed. Let's all be happy that the white man
> is killing us.
I feel you are projecting something on me, Monica, and that is has
nothing to do with me directly. So what if i like to chit chat? It
doesn't suppress anyone, and doesn't prevent anyone from discussing
anything that matters to them. I've been 'chit-chatting' here for
nearly 10 years, so i guess it's just a 'bad habit'. I'm not trying to
'kill' anyone, or steal anything, or keep from getting the "natives
agitated". In fact, it looks like i *did* agitate someone - but why or
how is what i don't understand.
> Beep! Beep!-
I'm not the coyote here, Monica.
Donna
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Arlo said that people laughed too. He said that the eagle feathers
wouldn't let two elves lie. He forgot what he was supposed to say.
paulprice may have cleaned up two elves testimony. Two elves is a
journalist, a historian, with information as important as what Arlo
allegedly was telling him, It should have been burned into his memory.
This was about a huge case involving Indians and his brother. The
whole fbi case hinges on two elves story. It had damn well be solid.
It's flimsy and will be torn apart.
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Where is your office and what is the name of your magazine?
oldwifetale
8th St. at the Olynpic Center across from the new dentist's office
building. Pacific Northwest Home (bi-monthly), and the other one is
Pacific Northwest Dining: Food & Beverage Directory (annual).
oldwifetale
Typo: It's the 'Olympic' center.
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't know where that is but I'll look for it tomorrow.
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
hate to reveal it 2 ya Mad Moo...
BUTT...da whole case do NOT revovle arpound wha i say...
fact iz...i gotz lil to do wit it...
Fact Is...U Got FLINT on da brain...
Sweet Dreamz...
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
better have witnesses, and consider documenting the encounter Donna...
most of all...B careful...
oldwifetale
603 E. 8th St. It's in a bldg. complex. If you come in the morning
someone should be there but in the afternoon this week everyone is out
delivering because this issue arrived from the printer today. If you
can't come in the morning, Blue Dolphin is across the street from
Cornerhouse restaurant. There are other places, but this is downtown,
easy to find. They will give you one, it is free to anyone who lives
here on the peninsula or to any of their customers - but it will be
last issue, they won't have *this* issue until late tomorrow afternoon
sometime. The Visitor's Center downtown might still have some left too.
oldwifetale
> On Jan 8, 7:16 pm, oldwifetale <oldwifet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > This was the first time i read the
> > actual testimony. Paul Wolf (another 'white person') said that the
> > cross-examiner's questions led him to believe that Richard Two Elks
> > was fabricating his story. O'Brien said that Richard Two Elks was such
> > a 'clown' that the courtroom was laughing. When i read the testimony,
> > i could not see how either of those 'observations' were derived, or
> > how he was "obviously lying". I have no stake in proving anyone's
> > guilt or innocence, so i feel that i was reading objectively. You say
> > you are only after the truth. If that is so, then why are you so angry
> > about me asking how this testimony proved that Two Elks was either
> > lying or telling the truth? It was a sincere question.
>
> Arlo said that people laughed too. He said that the eagle feathers
> wouldn't let two elves lie.
And that may be true. But i can't see where he *did* lie in the
testimony unless it's only a matter of 'believing' one person over
another. The issue (that i was bringing up) wasn't whether anyone
laughed - because obviously even Richard Two Elk laughed at some point
- the cross examiner asked if Richard thought it was funny, and
Richard said he thought the cross examiner was funny. At that point in
the testimony, the questions were getting confusing. Even i could not
discern what he was asking 'exactly'. The issue (in regard to my
question) was how did the testimony show that he was lying or telling
the truth?
> He forgot what he was supposed to say.
> paulprice may have cleaned up two elves testimony. Two elves is a
> journalist, a historian, with information as important as what Arlo
> allegedly was telling him, It should have been burned into his memory.
> This was about a huge case involving Indians and his brother.
Right. And that's where i get a little stumped because there is more
than *one* way of looking at that. Historian or not, he had always
recorded people. He did not just commit their words to 'memory'. But
in this case he didn't do that. The reason, if he is given any benefit
of the doubt, would seem obvious. This was a huge case involving
indians and his brother, like you said. If someone you percieved as a
'friend' came to you (and say your 'were' a historian) with such
disturbing information, would you be set to 'record' them for
posterity? If i try to imagine myself in this position, i have to say
i would not. I would be so emotionally disturbed, and wondering how i
could help my friend, at the same time feeling in a terrible moral
dilemma and wondering what is the right thing to do. Recording this as
a piece of history or burning it into my brain for a future
'testimony' would be the last thing on my mind at the time, even if i
was actively pursuing details to get it straight on what happened.
Yes, it was important information, but there could also be a
separation between being an historian or journalist... and just being
human and finding yourself in a really bad position. This was
personal, close to home. That is IF he is given the benefit of the
doubt the way Arlo is getting the benefit of the doubt. To me that
seems fair. And objective. Because... how does anyone 'know'?
I'm not trying to 'rock the boat', Monica. Or to upset you; i know you
care about Arlo, and who says you shouldn't? I'm just trying to
understand about the testimony.
The
> whole fbi case hinges on two elves story. It had damn well be solid.
> It's flimsy and will be torn apart.-
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You're not upsetting me. If you remember I've been trying to get you
to comment for a long time. You've hidden behind the "I'm an unwanted
white woman" crap.Because of that and other things, I thought you
could be the fbi woman left here to watch us.
I am going to do an analysis of two elves testimony and interview
soon. I am busy right now. We are hosting the traditional foods and
medicine class. We are getting ready for a couple memorials.I spoke
with John Brewer about the current racism in pa. John owns ther pdn
and is the founder of the multicultural taskforce. Although he isn't
the figurehead he is the force behind the mct. I'm trying to get them
moving on the defacement of the mural.
The whole Anna Mae story about the kidnapping the trek to rapid city,
the shooting etc. was first presented in two elves interview. Then the
fbi intimidated others into mouthing it. Two Elves told rehsch that
he spoke with Arlo a dozen times. Then he said 4 or maybe 3. He said
Arlo's story was consistent but it changed each time. How is that the
truth?Arlo says he never "confessed" to two elves. He said why would
he call two elves for legal advice when he has a lawyer he could talk
to? Two elves is just an alcoholic druggie street punk with delusions
of grandeur. He played right into fbi hands. They used him. and he
collaborated.
Take two elves advice, have wittnesses and a guard. I'm real
dangerous. I'm a little old granny from the rez. That is the most
dangerous kind of person in the world. I might hit you with my purse
or trip you with my cane if you try to run. That's funny. I hope I
catch you in. I'll keep trying until I do.
ps I met Cecelia Fire Thunder at a conference. She is an amazing
speaker. She told a raunchy story then said "I'm just an old rez
girl." I shook her hand and told her I"m an old rez girl too. She
hugged me. Two Elves said that the fbi is cleaning up child sex abuse
on pine ridge. I think it's Cecelia and her staff. They are the ones
doing the heavy lifting. She has gotten the Tribal police to finally
do their job and investigate the offenders. Incidents of rape have
dropped off too. That is because Cecelia and her group have lobbied
the Tribal police to arrest and the courts to convict the men abusing
their women and children. The men know that if they beat and rape
their wives or girlfriends they will do time. If they rape a child
they will do time. It will take a year to get the fbi to come to any
rez here to investigate anything. Look how long it took the fbi to do
anything about Anna Mae.
Flint_...@hotmail.com
>
>
> Take two elves advice, have wittnesses and a guard. I'm real
> dangerous. I'm a little old granny from the rez. That is the most
> dangerous kind of person in the world. I might hit you with my purse
> or trip you with my cane if you try to run. That's funny. I hope I
> catch you in. I'll keep trying until I do.
>
>
da DANGER U present is in da EVIL dat EMENATES from U and in yer
uncanny ability to have yer EVIL mouthed by others...
U and da King AmDooDoo B sum sick mudderz...
Go Figure...
oldwifetale
> On Jan 9, 12:30 am, oldwifetale <oldwifet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Yes, it was important information, but there could also be a
> > separation between being an historian or journalist... and just being
> > human and finding yourself in a really bad position. This was
> > personal, close to home. That is IF he is given the benefit of the
> > doubt the way Arlo is getting the benefit of the doubt. To me that
> > seems fair. And objective. Because... how does anyone 'know'?
>
> > I'm not trying to 'rock the boat', Monica. Or to upset you; i know you
> > care about Arlo, and who says you shouldn't? I'm just trying to
> > understand about the testimony.
>
> You're not upsetting me. If you remember I've been trying to get you
> to comment for a long time. You've hidden behind the "I'm an unwanted
> white woman" crap.Because of that and other things, I thought you
> could be the fbi woman left here to watch us.
>
> I am going to do an analysis of two elves testimony and interview
> soon. I am busy right now. We are hosting the traditional foods and
> medicine class. We are getting ready for a couple memorials.I spoke
> with John Brewer about the current racism in pa. John owns ther pdn
> and is the founder of the multicultural taskforce. Although he isn't
> the figurehead he is the force behind the mct. I'm trying to get them
> moving on the defacement of the mural.
That would be good. But any public discussion about John is not a good
idea for me; he is in very active competition with us in business.
> The whole Anna Mae story about the kidnapping the trek to rapid city,
> the shooting etc. was first presented in two elves interview.
I thought, according to the testimony that Paul Wolf posted here
(http://www.jfamr.org/doc/elktest.html), that Arlo was in jail
regarding a possible involvement in Anna Mae's case before he spoke to
Richard about anything. In the telephone visit from jail, Arlo
(according to the testimony) didn't say he was involved. The next
conversation didn't occur until about a year later. What was it that
supposedly linked Arlo to the case in the first place?
> Then the
> fbi intimidated others into mouthing it. Two Elves told rehsch that
> he spoke with Arlo a dozen times. Then he said 4 or maybe 3.
Well i'm just not seeing that, i guess. The cross-examiner is the one
who said a flat "twelve" toward the end, whereas Richard said half a
dozen or more. I just went back and read again, and it says initially
(with McMahon):
Q. Let's start with your -- well, first of all, how many
visits do you think you have had with him about this matter?
A. I would say at least a half a dozen, if not more.
Then with Rehsch:
Q. How many times did you speak with him about
Ms. Pictou-Aquash?
A. I would say at least a half a dozen, maybe more.
Q. Do you distinctly remember every conversation you had with him?
A. Not enough to be able to separate them and itemize them.
Later in the testimony the cross-examiner mentions a flat-out 'twelve'
conversations. The cross-examiner is actually the most confusing
person in the whole thing, to me at least.
> He said
> Arlo's story was consistent but it changed each time. How is that the
> truth?
There was a long drawn-out section about Richard's understanding of
the definition of the word 'consistent'. Reading it again tonight...
the matter never seemed resolved.
> Arlo says he never "confessed" to two elves. He said why would
> he call two elves for legal advice when he has a lawyer he could talk
> to?
Richard said in the testimony that Arlo never claimed to have killed
anyone. And that he didn't call him for "legal advice". That doesn't
really contradict what Arlo has said to you also. Here is the question
and answer:
Q. After that telephone call he is seeking basically legal
advice from you, is that what you are telling us?
A. No, why would he seek legal advice from me, I am not a lawyer.
I am confused, Monica.
>Two elves is just an alcoholic druggie street punk with delusions
> of grandeur. He played right into fbi hands. They used him. and he
> collaborated.
> Take two elves advice, have wittnesses and a guard. I'm real
> dangerous. I'm a little old granny from the rez. That is the most
> dangerous kind of person in the world. I might hit you with my purse
> or trip you with my cane if you try to run. That's funny. I hope I
> catch you in. I'll keep trying until I do.
Well, it's unlikely that you will run into me at the office. More
likely my husband. I do all the production work at my office at home.
But if you want to meet up, i can arrange it - just let me know what
is a good time for you. Insofar as 'dangerous' - you haven't seen *my*
purse yet (just kidding). :) No, i think the real 'danger' would be if
you decided i was an *enemy*. Words can do more damage than a mere
purse or cane, which is why i *try* to do no harm with mine. However -
i take my chances every day just waking up.
Gotta go here, it's been a really long one today and i'm worn.
Donna
>
> ps I met Cecelia Fire Thunder at a conference. She is an amazing
> speaker. She told a raunchy story then said "I'm just an old rez
> girl." I shook her hand and told her I"m an old rez girl too. She
> hugged me. Two Elves said that the fbi is cleaning up child sex abuse
> on pine ridge. I think it's Cecelia and her staff. They are the ones
> doing the heavy lifting. She has gotten the Tribal police to finally
> do their job and investigate the offenders. Incidents of rape have
> dropped off too. That is because Cecelia and her group have lobbied
> the Tribal police to arrest and the courts to convict the men abusing
> their women and children. The men know that if they beat and rape
> their wives or girlfriends they will do time. If they rape a child
> they will do time. It will take a year to get the fbi to come to any
> rez here to investigate anything. Look how long it took the fbi to do
> anything about Anna Mae.- Hide quoted text -
Monica
You love being a victim don't you. You think other people aren't smart
enough to see your lies? I was confronted off list about why I talk to
you. At one time I thought I saw somw good in you. I was mistaken. It
just isn't there. You made me your enemy. You did that deliberately.
Why? Something went wrong! I won't be abused. I fight back. Oops!
Dream your way out of this one tiny dancer.
Beep! Beep!
OM SHIVA!108
> Joseph and John Trimbach's book American Indian Mafia compares the
> tactics of the American Indian Movement (AIM) with the tactics of
> today's terrorists:
> "When compared to the international enemy we face today, the American
> Indian Movement obviously presented much less of a threat to the
> nation at large. Nonetheless, the "war" against AIM has parallels to
> today's war against terror. AIM militants were the terrorists of their
> time, employing many of the same tactics used by modern-day terrorist
> groups.
> With the same viciousness that Middle-Eastern henchmen lop off the
> heads of innocent people, AIM hitmen dispatched their victims, in both
> cases recruiting young members to do their dirty work. AIM enjoyed the
> support and understanding of many who turned a blind eye to the
> cowardice of indiscriminate attacks, although on a much smaller scale,
> but with the same rationalization as "aggrieved minorities." AIM could
> not have existed without funding and support from certain quarters of
> the government. In some cases, that support came from the same
> government entities tasked with defeating it. In supporting Al-Qaeda
> and Hizbollah, world governments and at times, it seems, the United
> Nations (with U.S. dollars), have unfortunately served the same
> purpose. Yesterday's well-intended government aid to AIM is like
> today's foreign aid and world-body assistance programs---we're not
> really sure where the money is going until it's too late...
> The occupation of Wounded Knee can be seen as a microcosm of today's
> terrorist controversies. Amid complaints of a disproportionate use of
> force" and the view of oppressors as victims, the true victims are
> often consigned to anonymity by a blissfully unaware press. Meanwhile,
> instigators benefit from media-driven calls for understanding, and
> government bodies seek appeasement through calls for restraint and
> negotiation" (p. 508-9).
Actually I think that you guys (native americans) were naive players -
basically 'too nice'. Think if instead of organising an overt military
type resistance on the reservations, (Pin Ridge), you had instead
started up autonmous groups type direct action against infrastructure.
Especially road bridges. Standard military tactics that are very
effective as shown by the Isrealis in Lebanon.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, nonce collaborator crew.
Blessings.
OM SHIVA!108
The bottom line after all is said and done is "I'm an american" factor
is always creeping into to all this...thus Hendricks switchs into the
FBI version of events in dramatic novelette style in the chapter on
Aquash's death. Likewise with Trimbachs account as Paul Wolf said.
This has to happen, because otherwise 'america' would be subject to
truth purification. (as regards the individuals consciousness); and
thus the KKK type horrors (I hardly dare say the ritual child abusers
now following the current Donnas and others native american
campaigners included) very keen defence of america on that issue) and
cover up and illusions would be revealed and thus a new awareness
manifest. (I think).
OM SHIVA!108
Thus, when it comes down to it, despite the knoledge that 'america' is
total and complete scum, and the trotting out of endless evidence of
the abuses of that regime, we always support the cops, and their mind
control illusions, at the end of the day - trying top make reality
just like a Hollywood movie (voice turning 5 year old sulk).
donnasch...@gmail.com
> The bottom line after all is said and done is "I'm an american" factor
> is always creeping into to all this...thus Hendricks switchs into the
> FBI version of events in dramatic novelette style in the chapter on
> Aquash's death. Likewise with Trimbachs account as Paul Wolf said.
> This has to happen, because otherwise 'america' would be subject to
> truth purification. (as regards the individuals consciousness); and
> thus the KKK type horrors (I hardly dare say the ritual child abusers
> now following the current Donnas and others native american
> campaigners included) very keen defence of america on that issue) and
> cover up and illusions would be revealed and thus a new awareness
> manifest. (I think).-
The "current Donnas"?
Followed by "ritual child abusers"?
Really now. That's a new one.
Sorry to pop your bubble here, amdo, but i don't have any 'followers',
tag-alongs, students, fans, or even an organization or 'group' to
which i belong aside from my own family. I'm not an activist, a
leader, or a 'figurehead' of anything at all. I have no political
affiliations, no ties to the government (except paying taxes) and no
particular *agenda* in life (except to survive), and not even that
common desire for 'fame and fortune'. You'll have to do better than
that. "Current Donnas".. hee hee hee... you sure know how to make a
gal feel 'important'. :)
oldwifetale
>
> Thus, when it comes down to it, despite the knoledge that 'america' is
> total and complete scum, and the trotting out of endless evidence of
> the abuses of that regime, we always support the cops, and their mind
> control illusions, at the end of the day - trying top make reality
> just like a Hollywood movie (voice turning 5 year old sulk).-
Ya know what? So long as i'm in it knee-deep in this thread, i might
as well say: you are one wierd duck. Just because some cops have
abused their positions doesn't mean that *all* cops are the "bad
guys". Same with fbi people - not that i know any of them personally,
but it just stands to reason. People are people, some good, some not
so good, some really bad. But you just sit there on your perch and
make these sweeping judgements from afar about people you don't even
know. It's pretty ridiculous that unless people are agreeing with you
or is sitting here nodding their heads like those rubber-necked
doggies in the window, they're automatically the "enemy". People here
do not always "support the cops". I can't tell you how many people are
pissed off about the 'tasering' that is becoming very common these
days (among other things). On the other hand, i've known a few people
who've become cops and are about as giving, kind and considerate as
anyone you'd want to meet, and would do almost anything to avoid
hurting someone they were having to arrest. You just don't *know*
about individuals unless you see them individually, and all your
sweeping accusations and judgements about 'groups' of people only
discredit you in my eyes - no different than waybackjack and rc,
hating black people, hating mexicans... what the heck are you
thinking?
I've so far been quiet as a baby mouse pissin' on a cotton ball about
this 'issue' because i've been trying to keep an open mind. I do trust
that the whole truth will come out someday soon. But where that truth
is going to come from, i just don't know. So how is it that YOU know,
sitting all the way over there in the uk? Do you ever even ask
yourself questions? Like - why is it that people are insistant about
'fair trials' for Arlo Looking Cloud and John Graham, in a 'system'
that is adamant about proving people guilty 'beyond a reasonable
doubt' - and yet this Richard Two Elks is not awarded the same benefit
of the doubt? How is it actually 'fair' that Arlo's word is put up
against Richard Two Elk's word as 'evidence' that Richard Two Elks is
lying? I'm not saying he's lying or telling the truth - but explain
that for me.
I haven't made up my mind about one thing, or taken a side either way.
But i do have questions. Yes, i do. Especially after reading the
testimony.
Do you ever ask yourself, "Gee... what IF Richard Two Elks is telling
the truth?" (You know... objectively thinking... giving the benefit of
the doubt since you can't really 'know' and weren't there...). People
have certainly entertained the idea of Arlo and John Graham telling
the truth. And so have i - in fact, i have entertained the
*possibility* of each and every person involved as telling the truth,
one after the other. Because... i don't *know*. What i do know is that
for everything that is said about the actions of each person involved
(as if it is *conclusive*)... i can easily 'imagine' how it could be
otherwise. And so long as those kinds of alternate scenarios are a
possibility, there is no way i can say anything is 'beyond a
reasonable doubt'. In fact - i don't even know why people say it was
either an ndn killing OR the fbi. How do we know it wasn't BOTH? There
is still the matter of Anna Mae's hands.
But let me say this: IF... Richard Two Elks is telling the truth, then
he has been persecuted on this matter like nothing i've ever seen, and
it would make a whole lot of sense out of some of the things he has
been saying and doing here the last few years. I don't care about
character assassination, i don't care if he smokes pot (and really,
who cares if he does?), and i don't care if he was or wasn't mean to
his mother. I also don't care if people are impressed by how
articulate John Graham is (i hear Ted Bundy was also pretty articulate
and charismatic, so is that really how people want to assess guilt or
innocence?).
All that is 'supposed' to matter here (regarding this particular
'issue') is the truth about who killed Anna Mae, and why.
So how about weighing in on *that* instead of picking out people to
accuse when you really have no way of knowing?
Monica
Two Elves has done his share of persecuting so take a breath. It's
interesting that when you finally weigh in it's on two elves side.
Wayne George
I don't *see* where OldWifeTale has sided with your buddy Two Elk of the
Richards.
or do you just like to be the antagonistinc creature of olden days...???..
Who saw all as the enemy ,along with the shadows..???
Gadzukes...some folks is sure thick skined and whatnots..
wayne :) george
===========
"Monica" <yan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:34b929d9-e733-4d8b...@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
oldwifetale
> interesting that when you finally weigh in it's on two elves side.-
That's not what i said at all, Monica. But you've been after me to
comment, so now i'm commenting. One time i did ask about how this is
being handled, and about the trials in the 'white man's court system'
vs being dealt with by the peoples (tribes) involved. Richard Two Elks
- i mean Two Elk (sorry, i see 'two' and think plural) - did answer,
and i could see he knew i was asking respectfully. Well, i see all
this 'input' on the ng coming from AIM supporters, most of whom are
'white people', and i'm reading about so-and-so having a pissing-
meeting in the men's room and commenting on how Richard is "obviously
lying", and about how Richard is a drunkard, etc. (when Arlo himself
was an alcoholic at the time this all started - oh, but that doesn't
matter), and just all kinds of biased opinions and attempts to to make
Richard the liar, and Arlo and John Boy automatically innocent of any
wrong-doing because of... i don't even know why actually... and how
the reason people laughed in court was because Richard was such a
"clown", and it all comes down to this: it's all *he said, she said*.
People talking 'about' the testimony... and it wasn't until January
7th that the actual testimony, the read deal, was presented here in
its entirety. So you can accuse me of taking sides or being an fbi
agent or anything you want, but the fact is - i am neutral, and am
staying neutral until i *know* one way or the other what the truth is
- and i certainly am not going to sit here accusing, demeaning or
belittling people just because you think i should. If you see that as
'taking a side', i can't help it. That's my comment.
OM SHIVA!108
Shut up
OM SHIVA!108
Shes not secret services - just an american :~ (I think) and
therefore cannot handle this thesis:
Where the pigs are coming from as a force is the 'beast' i.e. ritual
child abuse...and thus all the illusional realities (as in the Arlo
fit up etc)...and thus, 'at the end of the day', Americascumworld must
always win.
oldwifetale
Why? Is it not what you want to hear? Or maybe i should shut up
because you might use your 'hooey' on me like you did with a certain
someone who is no longer here with us (it's not an accusation - you
admitted it). Let's let it all hang out, amdo. Let's talk about
'truth' for a change. Does Monica know (or care) about how you use the
'craft' against people who disagree with you? Maybe she would not
appreciate your 'support' so much, eh? Ugly stuff, amdo - Flint was
right about you on that. But remember, last time you tried that with
me, you went temporarily insane. I didn't do it - you did it all by
your lonesome. I'll shut up when i'm good and ready.
Carry on.
Monica
Are you sure those are your words. You're the resident psychic.
Monica
Do you know that two elves does that? That's why I asked you if those
were your words. He used Debbie, he used Lisa. Now he's using you. He
does bad work. He's tried to hurt me and he's tried to scare me away.
Alcoholic druggie street punks don't scare me.
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
Two Elves uses elk medicine to capture and control women. Use a little
deer medicine to scare him away. btw. He tried to kill Amdo. He tried
to kill me. Believe me when I say he is scum. If what he is saying
about John and Arlo is true then why does he have to silence any
dissent? He and demain lie about me. That has backfired in some
quarters. People here hate aim. BUTT when they see the lies demain and
two elves tell about me they wonder what other lies are they telling.
They have brought Indian Journalism to an all time low. Anna Mae is
cleaning house. She won't let them get away with what they are doing
in her name.
oldwifetale
I'm not a resident psychic. Ha, i *wish*. My particular 'gift' doesn't
work that way, and never on demand. No one is using me for anything, i
have a mind of my own. Whatever i said to amdo is about what has taken
place right here, no guesswork or psychic ability involved. I'm not
the *only one* here who knows it. Amdo has said when he's put the
'hooey' out there on people (me included), and has openly admitted
when he went crazy after tangling with me one time. I didn't have to
'send it back' (i do not practice the 'craft'); but i knew, and i
'observed' when the proper things happened. What i said to amdo is
what i *know* (not what i 'believe'), what i've seen, what he's said
and done here openly in front of others. What you say about Richard is
what i do *not* know, haven't seen with my own eyes. Amdo put the
'hooey' on someone, and it effected that person's weakest physical
area... because that 'certain someone' did not take it seriously
enough to protect herself (although i did suggest to her that she do
so at the time). I sent prayers but it wasn't enough. I am still sad
about that. She was a good person. Amdo knows exactly what this is
about. He knows i can't 'prove' something like this in the ordinary
mundane world, but he *knows*. He does not even deny it - he thinks it
was justified.
Sometimes people who don't believe it is possible... find out the hard
way. Or they think that because someone seems a little 'unbalanced'
that they can't do any harm (I wonder sometimes how many people are
effected by things they don't understand or acknowledge). But there's
no reason to be scared of such things (which aren't 'supernatural',
but very natural) from *anyone*, Monica, so long as you are operating
from a *good heart* with no ill intentions, and call upon whatever
'source' you trust to keep you safe from such things and make sure the
right things happen. Maybe Anna Mae temporarily put her trust in the
wrong place until it was too late. It happens so easily to good-
hearted people. That is why i am not afraid of amdo or anyone else,
insofar as this kind of thing goes. I never wish harm on amdo (or
anyone else, not ever - even when they say they are my enemy). If i
had wished harm on amdo in return for what he was doing, i might not
be sitting here today. And i don't put my whole trust in what i don't
*know*. So you do not have to take my word for anything. It is all
documented right here on the good ol' internet. The right things will
happen.
But no, i am not being used by anyone at all.
And now i don't want to talk about it anymore because people will
think we are *both* crazy for even discussing such things. I just
wanted amdo to know that he is not in a position to 'shut me up'.
Donna
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are being used. I know what happened to mop. Everything two elves
accuses me of is what he is doing. He has a twisted sick mind and he
thinks if he accuses me that lets him off the hook. He will turn on
you when he's through with you. But you're a big girl. I warned you.
oldwifetale
Using her name in the same thread with amdo gives me a creepy feeling.
I'm 'protected', Monica. But you have warned me, for the record. And
yes, i am a big girl. A man from the Quiver family in Pine Ridge told
me a few years ago, "Keep dreaming... because nothing in real life is
how it appears." That is so true.
If someone turns on me without 'good' reason, Monica, watch what
happens all by itself. When *anyone* is born with a gift in life,
anyone at all and any gift at all, even something so simple as
beauty... it is really a burden (it's only a gift to 'other' people).
But it is like when an autistic person (who is a gift to others in his
or her own way) can play the piano beautifully and receive some
measure of joy from it... there is always compensation in another
area. I have a compensation to make up for the hard part - at least
until my 'time' runs out. I'm sure you do too. But i do thank you if
your concern for me is actually sincere.
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -
There are also records here where two elves has told people that were
disagreeing with him that their relatives were going to die. I guess
you missed that. People told me to ignore the seashepherd witches that
were focusing their hate on us. Even if their spells were toothless,
simply focusing hate can do a lot of damaged. I just rented a movie
called "What the bleep do we know." It's about quantum physics. I
thought the movie was about something else. It was interesting
though. It showed the molecules from water in a lake. Then they showed
the molecules after they had been blessed by a Buddhist monk. It was
different it had changed. They showed molecules from bottled water.
They taped words on them and left them for 24 hours. They again
photographed the molecules and they had changed. My old chiropractor
is in the movie talking about quantum physics. If I see him again I
have a lot of questions. A lot of Indians go to him.
We're hosting the traditional foods and medicines class on april 19.
It will be at the tribal center in the dining hall. Maybe you can come
out and see some of the "evil" work I've been doing. Looks like I
won't catch you at your office. It starts at ten and will go until
about four. We'll also have a fashion show, probably during lunch.
We'll show traditional and what I call modern traditional clothing. I
made a shawl that tells the story of how my family came into being. I
am working on a poncho that I'm appliqueing the "tree of life" design.
The tree of life is the cedar tree.
As for two elves word being questioned, he left himself open for that
when he did his interview with naja and testified against Arlo. His
alcoholism and drug use leaves him open for question. His threats of
murder leave him open for question. Did you ever ask yourself how two
elves could threaten murder on a public ng and not be arrested. Barry
has been hauled away for much less. He consistently threatened to kill
Leonard and John until I asked why he was able to get away with that.
I am told there is a program that watches for key words on the
internet. Did you ever notice that when two elves wants to call
attention to a thread, like when someone is disagreeing with him or
making statements he doesn't like he uses the word "allah"? Why do you
think he spells it that way? Again ask yourself why you are so
passionate in your defense of two elves. That is so uncharacteristic
of you.
oldwifetale
>
> There are also records here where two elves has told people that were
> disagreeing with him that their relatives were going to die. I guess
> you missed that. People told me to ignore the seashepherd witches that
> were focusing their hate on us. Even if their spells were toothless,
> simply focusing hate can do a lot of damaged. I just rented a movie
> called "What the bleep do we know." It's about quantum physics. I
> thought the movie was about something else. It was interesting
> though. It showed the molecules from water in a lake. Then they showed
> the molecules after they had been blessed by a Buddhist monk. It was
> different it had changed. They showed molecules from bottled water.
> They taped words on them and left them for 24 hours. They again
> photographed the molecules and they had changed. My old chiropractor
> is in the movie talking about quantum physics. If I see him again I
> have a lot of questions. A lot of Indians go to him.
Yes, that is research done by Mr. Emoto from Japan. I ran across this
information a few years ago about words having effects upon water, and
was fascinated. It's sort of what i always knew - words are so
powerful - but there it was, scientifically validated for anyone to
see. Sinice our bodies are composed of mostly water... it is amazing
to think of the effect words could have on the physical body alone.
When i was a kid, my dad had a bad temper and would unleash verbally
on me (i was the oldest). I would always get sick when that happened.
When i was older, even when i learned to sheild myself better, some
words from people could get me physically reacting. I do feel that
words have a profound invlluence on everything around us, including
written words. That is 'one' reason i am curious about preserving
languages of various peoples - different languages may have different
effects (i think, theoretically). Here is a website of Mr. Emoto's
about it, i have had it bookmarked:
http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/message.html.
Another thing this brings up is pollution of water. Is it possible to
purify water with words?
>
> We're hosting the traditional foods and medicines class on april 19.
> It will be at the tribal center in the dining hall. Maybe you can come
> out and see some of the "evil" work I've been doing. Looks like I
> won't catch you at your office. It starts at ten and will go until
> about four. We'll also have a fashion show, probably during lunch.
> We'll show traditional and what I call modern traditional clothing. I
> made a shawl that tells the story of how my family came into being. I
> am working on a poncho that I'm appliqueing the "tree of life" design.
> The tree of life is the cedar tree.
I would like to attend that, Monica. I never suggested you were doing
evil work, and in fact - i *know* you are doing good works here on the
peninsula, See, there is one thing i am able to 'know' and see with my
own eyes. :) That is interesting about the cedar tree. I dreamed (when
i was living in kansas) that a cedar tree here was on fire, but wasn't
burning up - that is, it was staying green even though it was on fire.
People were freaking out about it, and leaving the peninsula 'en
masse' and i kept trying to get them (some of my friends) to stay,
saying it was *supposed* to happen, not to be afraid. I told them it
was a 'sacred' event, a 'sign'. But they wouldn't listen, they were
too scared. I woke up crying because no one understood, and they were
running away from it. Still not sure what it means (sometimes things
don't make sense until many... many years later).
Have you been to see the longhouse exhibit at the college? I haven't
had a chance to see that yet, but was wondering what you thought of
it, and if it was authentically presented.
>
> As for two elves word being questioned, he left himself open for that
> when he did his interview with naja and testified against Arlo. His
> alcoholism and drug use leaves him open for question. His threats of
> murder leave him open for question. Did you ever ask yourself how two
> elves could threaten murder on a public ng and not be arrested.
Yes, in something like this, everything and everyone leaves people
open for question. Of course i do ask myself these questions, Monica -
but also other questions. I hope it is not held against me that i am
staying neutral. I honestly feel it is too early to make conclusions,
that there are too many unanswered questions on *all* sides, with all
parties involved.
> Barry
> has been hauled away for much less.
Barry threatened me personally, and some very strange things occurred
in my life during that time that were directly related to his threats.
I never could understand how he could be living in a basement in
Maryland and have people showing up 'here' (in Blaine at that time)
mysteriously, saying things to me that could only pertain to Barry. I
posted a 'chit-chatty' thing about how my cookies always come out bad
(one time my cookies stuck to a plate and my daughter hung the plate -
with cookies still stuck - on the wall with a sign saying, "Mmmm,
mom's home cooking.") A man shows up at a bus stop, helps me with a
homeless woman, calls me later saying, "Why don't you make me some
cookies, haha." Bowser posted a ranting post about a 'cleaning lady
poisoning a german shephard' (i was a cleaning lady then), my shepherd
got violently ill and died a few days later. A long string of such
incidents. I realized something strange was happening. But then he
threatened my life. Barry then 'disappeared' from this ng for a couple
years. That is what 'happens' all by itself when someone turns on me
like that.
Because of what happened, i researched him.
The story about Barry would blow your mind, and most of those here.
It is enough to make me believe about 'government mind-control'
subjects.
However, whatever happened to him drove him over the edge. At one time
he was fine (mentally).
> He consistently threatened to kill
> Leonard and John until I asked why he was able to get away with that.
> I am told there is a program that watches for key words on the
> internet. Did you ever notice that when two elves wants to call
> attention to a thread, like when someone is disagreeing with him or
> making statements he doesn't like he uses the word "allah"? Why do you
> think he spells it that way? Again ask yourself why you are so
> passionate in your defense of two elves. That is so uncharacteristic
> of you.
It would be uncharacteristic if that was what i was doing, but that
isn't what i am doing. I am keeping an open mind regarding the murder
of Anna Mae. At one time, i didn't even 'know' who she was enough for
her to be a 'person' to me. She was a woman that was murdered, and it
was sad, but that was all i knew. Over the years, i learned and read
things about her, and i became more interested. Still... i am an
outsider. Because of being an outsider, there are some things i will
*never* know or understand. Many of those things are cultural. It
isn't fair for me to sit here and judge people on this when i can
never really know how things work on the 'inside'. I don't judge
Richard. I don't judge Amdo. I don't judge you. But when i really
*know* what the truth is, Monica, then it will be different. I won't
judge, but i will have a 'position' on it. I hope you can accept that
from me, it is really just my nature.
Donna
oldwifetale
> It would be uncharacteristic if that was what i was doing, but that
> isn't what i am doing. I am keeping an open mind regarding the murder
> of Anna Mae. At one time, i didn't even 'know' who she was enough for
> her to be a 'person' to me. She was a woman that was murdered, and it
> was sad, but that was all i knew. Over the years, i learned and read
> things about her, and i became more interested. Still... i am an
> outsider. Because of being an outsider, there are some things i will
> *never* know or understand. Many of those things are cultural. It
> isn't fair for me to sit here and judge people on this when i can
> never really know how things work on the 'inside'. I don't judge
> Richard. I don't judge Amdo. I don't judge you. But when i really
> *know* what the truth is, Monica, then it will be different. I won't
> judge, but i will have a 'position' on it. I hope you can accept that
> from me, it is really just my nature.
>
> Donna
I meant to say 'Arlo' not 'Amdo' - i read his post before this one, so
the names got transposed.
Monica
Thanks for the link. Star Video has the movie "What the bleep do we
know." There are a series of books about government mind control
experiments and psychic experiments. It is written by an engineer and
a psychic who were involved. It is called the Montauk project. Some of
the scientists involved the Germans who came over after WW2. It's
pretty ugly and scary. The engineer started having memory leaks. The
stuff he was doing for the government was like another personality. He
didn't remember it. He had another "normal" life. As he remembered he
became angry. He banded together with the psychic. The government was
using his mind in weird experiments. The german scientists would
abduct street kids that were blonde and blue eyed. They still believed
in aryan supremacy. The engineer and psychic had to sign a security
statement that they would never talk about the project. It was
detailed. They write about what wasn't covered in the security
agreement.
I think that what happened in the 70's with aim was a field training
exercise and experiment. Pine Ridge represented a foreign government
with a dictator, Wilson. He had his own personal guard, the goon
squad. He stole program money and terrorized his own people. Aim was
the rebels. Aim was originally a civil rights group. Because of our
historical anger we were easily manipulated. In the book "Loudhawk"
John Trudell quotes someone else as saying "Before you can kill a
people you have to first arm them." In a nutshell thaht's what
happened. The feds armed both the goons and probably aim. Then they
let the Indians kill each other. I think the government has been
programming Arlo for years. They have implanted memory. They tortured
him. They broke his arm. They put him in a room with a cement floor
and turned on the airconditioning full blast. They left him in there
for 24 hours. They took his clothes from him. When they came from him
he was frozen and couldn't stand. They had to take him to the
infirmary in a wheelchair. Then he had to sign something (he doesn't
know what) before they would give him his clothes and a blanket. They
gave him moldy food. This was recently since he's been in prison. Why
are they doing that? Something is very wrong here. Two Elves and
demain support these people. The Sioux aren't the only ones who can
talk with Spirits. The real truth is dirty and ugly. Like Two Elves
says, he's dripping with shit and blood.
oldwifetale
>
> Thanks for the link. Star Video has the movie "What the bleep do we
> know." There are a series of books about government mind control
> experiments and psychic experiments. It is written by an engineer and
> a psychic who were involved. It is called the Montauk project. Some of
> the scientists involved the Germans who came over after WW2. It's
> pretty ugly and scary. The engineer started having memory leaks. The
> stuff he was doing for the government was like another personality. He
> didn't remember it. He had another "normal" life. As he remembered he
> became angry. He banded together with the psychic. The government was
> using his mind in weird experiments. The german scientists would
> abduct street kids that were blonde and blue eyed. They still believed
> in aryan supremacy. The engineer and psychic had to sign a security
> statement that they would never talk about the project. It was
> detailed. They write about what wasn't covered in the security
> agreement.
I guess i should read more about that Montauk when i get some time.
Everything you said in that paragraph coincides with BB's life. He was
*also* an engineer with a Ph.D. At one time, other doctors in physics
and engineering considered his work and ideas to be "brilliant". And i
am not going to post much more on it. I burned all my notes (and even
dreams i jotted down back then) before i went 'on the road', so i have
nothing to show now - for my own *protection*. This man has been
pretty used and abused, all his life - with certain 'aryan' principles
drilled into his mind and personality - or at least *one* of his
personalities. So i do feel badly for him, BUT... i stay away now. Far
Away. Nothing is like it appears! but yeah... i am now a believer
about the govt. mind-control stuff.
>
> I think that what happened in the 70's with aim was a field training
> exercise and experiment. Pine Ridge represented a foreign government
> with a dictator, Wilson. He had his own personal guard, the goon
> squad. He stole program money and terrorized his own people. Aim was
> the rebels. Aim was originally a civil rights group. Because of our
> historical anger we were easily manipulated. In the book "Loudhawk"
> John Trudell quotes someone else as saying "Before you can kill a
> people you have to first arm them." In a nutshell thaht's what
> happened. The feds armed both the goons and probably aim. Then they
> let the Indians kill each other. I think the government has been
> programming Arlo for years. They have implanted memory. They tortured
> him. They broke his arm. They put him in a room with a cement floor
> and turned on the airconditioning full blast. They left him in there
> for 24 hours. They took his clothes from him. When they came from him
> he was frozen and couldn't stand. They had to take him to the
> infirmary in a wheelchair. Then he had to sign something (he doesn't
> know what) before they would give him his clothes and a blanket. They
> gave him moldy food. This was recently since he's been in prison. Why
> are they doing that? Something is very wrong here. Two Elves and
> demain support these people. The Sioux aren't the only ones who can
> talk with Spirits. The real truth is dirty and ugly. Like Two Elves
> says, he's dripping with shit and blood.
If that is what has happened to Arlo while he has been incarcerated,
then you are right - something is very, very wrong here. Now what i
have to ask you is how can you trust his memory now? Nothing against
Arlo - but those are tactics that could work on anyone. You may need
to get MATERIAL EVIDENCE, Monica. If you can talk to the spirits, or
if you have any 'abilities' (you know what i mean), let them not just
tell you what the truth is, let them guide you to something solid and
tangible. That is what you need here. Not just 'reason' (which can be
twisted by anyone, any which-a-way), not just belief or memories or
words... something solid that you can hold in your hand. If Arlo is
innocent, that is what will save him (beyond any reasonable doubt!).
If Richard Two Elk is telling the truth, then likewise. And if you are
right, then the same. *Something* is out there - tangible proof - you
just need to find it. Nothing can ever be covered up so completely. My
*feeling* (only my 'feeling') is if you focus your efforts more on
that (on the *truth* about what happened to Anna Mae) than on proving
innocence or guilt (on anyone's part), you'll find the solid tangible
evidence that you can hold in your hand - and then all the right
things will happen. For you, Arlo, Richard and all concerned. It's
still out there.
Flint_...@hotmail.com
> The real truth is dirty and ugly. Like Two Elves
> says, he's dripping with shit and blood.
da REAL Q B...why U Keep Lickin'?...
hee hee hee hee hee...
Flint_...@hotmail.com
admit it...U gotz 1 Sillyass, i meanz serious, case o FLINT on da
brain...
Bwahahahaha!!!!!!
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Barry tried to contact me. I put a block on him. I don't open mail
from anyone I don't know or don't like. My first virus was from one of
the antiwhalers. The books said that mental hospitals were filled with
people who were experimented on. Most didn't survive, physically or
mentally. I usually don't read Barry's posts. They don't make sense to
me. I thought it was funny when he said the Venusians were going to
land and bring presents for all the Indians. I gave him a list of what
I wanted. You'll probably see in the books what happened to Barry. It
makes sense to me now. The people in these books have a fascination
with Indians. That's probably why Barry comes here. It was about 15
years ago when I read those books. I think there's about 6. I lend out
books and don't get them back. You won't find these books in a second
hand store. I'd be interested in what you have to say. The subject is
ugly and scary. It shows what this government is capable and willing
to do to us.
oldwifetale
> Barry tried to contact me. I put a block on him. I don't open mail
> from anyone I don't know or don't like. My first virus was from one of
> the antiwhalers. The books said that mental hospitals were filled with
> people who were experimented on. Most didn't survive, physically or
> mentally. I usually don't read Barry's posts. They don't make sense to
> me. I thought it was funny when he said the Venusians were going to
> land and bring presents for all the Indians. I gave him a list of what
> I wanted. You'll probably see in the books what happened to Barry. It
> makes sense to me now. The people in these books have a fascination
> with Indians. That's probably why Barry comes here. It was about 15
> years ago when I read those books. I think there's about 6. I lend out
> books and don't get them back. You won't find these books in a second
> hand store. I'd be interested in what you have to say. The subject is
> ugly and scary. It shows what this government is capable and willing
> to do to us.-
This is sorta coming out of left field, but did those books say
anything about the Mormon church being involved?
Monica
I don't think so, but it's been 15 years. There were all kinds of
weird connections. The psychic's name was Duncan Cameron. He could
trace his family back to England, or Ireland. They had him focus
thought on a particular part of the city. It agitated everyone, even
the cats and dogs. They talked about causing race riots. I thought
about that when I said that if ever race riots are needed here people
are in place. Dan Spomer out at Sekiu, the Owens at Joyce. A lot of
animal rights activists moved here to fight Makah whaling. Some movec
here simply to fight Indians.
The engineers name is Preston Nichols. They used to have a website
about the Montauk project. Montauk is the name of a Tribe on Long
Island. Camp Hero where the experiments were done was built on the
Tribe's cemetery. Like I said it's kind of creepy. The project goes
back to world war 2 when they were experimenting with invisibility, so
the German subs radar couldn't find American ships. I think that level
of radio waves caused mental and physical problems for the sailors.
They made mistakes but kept going. They discovered things, some good
some bad.
Monica
> Joseph and John Trimbach's book American Indian Mafia compares the
> tactics of the American Indian Movement (AIM) with the tactics of
> today's terrorists:
> "When compared to the international enemy we face today, the American
> Indian Movement obviously presented much less of a threat to the
> nation at large. Nonetheless, the "war" against AIM has parallels to
> today's war against terror. AIM militants were the terrorists of their
> time, employing many of the same tactics used by modern-day terrorist
> groups.
> With the same viciousness that Middle-Eastern henchmen lop off the
> heads of innocent people, AIM hitmen dispatched their victims, in both
> cases recruiting young members to do their dirty work. AIM enjoyed the
> support and understanding of many who turned a blind eye to the
> cowardice of indiscriminate attacks, although on a much smaller scale,
> but with the same rationalization as "aggrieved minorities." AIM could
> not have existed without funding and support from certain quarters of
> the government. In some cases, that support came from the same
> government entities tasked with defeating it. In supporting Al-Qaeda
> and Hizbollah, world governments and at times, it seems, the United
> Nations (with U.S. dollars), have unfortunately served the same
> purpose. Yesterday's well-intended government aid to AIM is like
> today's foreign aid and world-body assistance programs---we're not
> really sure where the money is going until it's too late...
> The occupation of Wounded Knee can be seen as a microcosm of today's
> terrorist controversies. Amid complaints of a disproportionate use of
> force" and the view of oppressors as victims, the true victims are
> often consigned to anonymity by a blissfully unaware press. Meanwhile,
> instigators benefit from media-driven calls for understanding, and
> government bodies seek appeasement through calls for restraint and
> negotiation" (p. 508-9).
Trimbach stated that SWAT, hostage negotiation procedures, and several
other fbi ops came out of WK 73. I was right. It was a field training
exercise. The big question now is: Was the assassination of Anna Mae a
part of these field training exercises?